The Most Toxic Love Triangle In TV History | Sitcom Lore

[@danielfreeman8725]

Obviously Jim was a dick in this relationship, but I don't think the show really tried to make me think Jim was the good guy. And Idk, it feels weird to me when fans try to paint characters as wholly good or bad. It feels real that both Jim and Pam have good and bad moments. I know plenty of people that are generally good people who have fucked up in relationships. Yeah, sometimes the person who does nothing wrong get shafted, that happens. That made it feel real. Jim is more interesting as a character that fucks up than having it all figured out. That would be boring. J&P were at their most boring when they were doing well.

[@T1J]

i agree completely. I respect the modern 'reevaluation' of jim and pam, but the reason they were compelling as characters is because they were flawed.

[@DeutschFuerEuch]

Totally agree - to add, I think the show shows us all of this pretty well, including the fact that Karen was not treated right, was both sad and furious about it and righteous in that reaction, when we meet her again in later seasons. She doesn't make it a big deal, but everyone involved is very aware that Jim and Pam acted pretty shitty towards her. Doesn't make them bad people or their relationship less valuable, but Karen's allowed to not like them even though they are the show's protagonists. Always appreciated the depth and dimensions there.

[@danielfreeman8725]

@@DeutschFuerEuch I really appreciate the episode where Pam goes and sees Karen. Not only did I like the fact that the show portrays Karen as someone who was able to move on and not have that keep her from improving her life, and she clearly found a place of happiness. Too many shows would make her bitter to the very end. She even has a good moment with Pam showing her maturity and the fact that she realizes it was more of Jim's problems that this all happened and didn't dump it all on Pam (and we already get to see her rightfully dress down Jim).

[@interloc1290]

I also think from a narrative stand point it was done to balance out the perceived sacrifice invested in the relationship between Jim and Pam. Pam having previously given up a fiancé in Roy, (who was flawed but clearly loved Pam) it created a perception from the fans that Pam was kind of selfish. By sort of reversing the roles with Karen and Jim’s (Roy) it balances out and they seem more like a couple who was DESTINED to be and Roy and Karen were simply detours on the fated journey.

[@dahlinthefiend]

Karen was a classic rebound. Who hasn't had their heart broken and then ended up with someone wrong for them without even realizing it? It doesn't mean that person isn't great and deserving of love, they were just unlucky enough to fall for someone who hasn't healed. I think in a real world sense Jim did hurt her feelings, but he probably didn't even realize how bad he was fucking up just by towing her along. People are flawed, so the best written characters need to be too. Karen was probably the better choice, but that's not how love works.

[@MasterMemo]

Karen's biggest problem is that she's a normal person in a clown world show lol. I always felt like that was part of the joke. And to that end, I think Karen and Jim were in different places in life, and also like I think Jim didn't like the city. It's interesting.

[@MasterMemo]

@robertnope1993 oh yeah, I remember Charles was a little bit more serious and stuff, but he made sense. David Wallace was perfect

[@thecategoricalcringeperative]

@robertnope1993totally agreed. If you watch the show as an adult, you’re like.. I mean, Charles can be a bit much, sure, but he’s exactly who that person would be in real life. Also, working with someone like Jim or Michael would be irl torture lol

[@AlbertHuynh-fl6er]

🎉ùu uujjhuh ukij 😊 obI ibhuh🎉I hIuhuu jgu ih9🎉i

[@TheGoldenApex]

Frrr. Jim def didn’t like the city

[@TheGoldenApex]

@robertnope1993frrr😂😂😂

[@studioofshred1050]

Karen literally moved to Scranton to be with Jim, and the show celebrates her exit. so weird

[@MylingCyrus]

HE ASKED HER TO SCRANTON TOO What a dick move she asked him and he said to do it

[@DABA2024]

Karen moving to be with a guy she just met is creepy and weird. Almost as weird as her hooking up with Jim when he was hammered (and he thought she was too, but she was lying).

[@KeithKill92]

@@DABA2024why do you keep spamming this same lie? They obviously didn’t hook up during that episode, what are you talking about?

[@DABA2024]

@@KeithKill92they were together right after that episode. What she did was creepy and weird.

[@randomt800kiddo2]

and then she ended up in pawnee indiana.....

[@dahlinthefiend]

Wow that scene "Do you still have feelings for her?" His pause is so long that it says yes like 3 times before he does.

[@owen-trombone]

He’s sorting through all the ways he could answer the question. Fortunately he decides on the only way that is right. Many people would make a different decision. 😢

[@joelsplawn5933]

His acting chops shine forth right there.

[@Sbock86]

That was after he lied the first time she asked him whether or not he had a crush on Pam.

[@L1v3W1r3d]

Karen did nothing wrong, straight spitting fire

[@Buggaton]

I legit didn't even know this was a hot take. All the office characters are shown to be severely flawed people with huge baggage and things that make them kinda dicks but also super relatable. They aren't role models! Except Meredith. She's a hero.

[@DABA2024]

Karen faked getting drunk in order to hook up with Jim. The way she just happened to come by w her car to scoop up him and his bike was PREDATORY.

[@laraantipova389]

I loved Karen. Jim is a bad person IMHO Pam sucks They are always exchanging looks and making fun of people, but they both are terrible people

[@crazycakemonster]

i hated karen personally

[@divinecrime]

What she did wrong is she continued to try to force a relationship to work with a man whom she knew was in love with someone else the entire time and wasn’t that into her. He didn’t even want her to move to the same neighborhood as him. Take a hint.

[@iranianali]

Rashida Jones moved on to Parks and Rec as one of the primary cast members. Karen might've been done dirty in the Office but Ann Perkins had a happy ending to her story in Pawnee.

[@Rachopin77]

I actually think that Karen in the office got the only redemption possible within the confines of the show, which was to leave Scranton and move on and later see Jim still doing bs with Dwight and laugh in his face. Like becoming less of a prominent character on the show was the happy ending for that character because she got to be normal.

[@abrahammanilla7948]

@@Rachopin77facts and we even see she went onto get married and started a family. Jim was her wake up call imo

[@nickpeitchev7763]

Facts and parks and rec was better than the office

[@TBK7913]

She had to break Marks heart though 😂

[@sleeping.helper]

Yeah, but she is bland. even on P&R she just felt out of place...

[@One.AutumnLeaf]

Jim was out there with main character syndrome, doing whatever he wanted, hurting anyone, just to get his happy ever after.

[@samatar6852]

He got the happy ever after precisely because he was the, or a, main character. It's not really a syndrome when it's true unfortunately.

[@louenatnine51]

art imitating life tbh

[@margarethmichelina5146]

Everyone on Scranton Dundler Mifflin are the main characters

[@dimitriid]

This was true early on here but it really got turned up to 11 by the last couple seasons and felt really unsatisfactory how they basically ended up conceding the worst of the 'Behind every great man' nonsense and sentenced Pam to housewife life (Something she very clearly and even outwardly resented) Also amplifying the point she was terrible as an artist which is *also* quite misogynistic: Jim? Crazy talented ready to be a successful millionaire with his cool business. Pam? Can only move Michael Scott as an artist and literally nobody else.

[@b0xman935]

When Charles appeared it was a wake up call for Jim only for Charles to leave

[@dominomasked]

The history of “the healthy alternative that shows up and needs to be destroyed because she’s messing up all the toxic true love” is deep and rich. Karen’s lucky the writers didn’t kill her with a gut-shot as is traditional.

[@fangal12]

Yeah, I really thought we would see a tuberculosis cough come out of her, signaling the end of her being in the way 😅

[@mggardiner4066]

@@fangal12oh my gosh this unlocked memories of Downtown Abbey

[@DABA2024]

Karen was not healthy. She hooked up with Jim while pretending to be drunk, and when Jim was too drunk to consent. Very disturbing.

[@DABA2024]

@@mggardiner4066it unlocked memories of a show you don’t even know the name of? It’s not ‘downtown’ 😂

[@ArcAngle1117]

@@DABA2024 That literally never happened, you made that up. They didn't hook up while he was drunk, I'm pretty sure that episode ends with Karen driving Jim and Andy home. You literally made up an event in order to be made at a fictional character.

[@jijitters]

Karen's only true mistake imo (which mostly just condenses your examples) was being in a relationship with someone who was not on the same maturity level as her and rarely ever on the same page as her, while trying to get him to pick up the slack instead of accepting she just picked the wrong guy. Her personal flavor of "I can fix him." 😔

[@DABA2024]

Pretending to get drunk with someone so that you can hook up with them when they are hammered is fucked up, and it’s how Karen got Jim 😂

[@okaywow3486]

@@DABA2024 Is it ever explicitly stated that they actually hooked up that time? I understand its deliberately ambiguous and open for interpretation but i thought she just drove him home.

[@matthewoehler2472]

@@DABA2024I never interpreted that as they hooked up, cause I don’t think Karen would take advantage like that. Now maybe a little manipulation as Jim wakes up the next morning and thinks, hey, she’s alright.

[@owen-trombone]

@@DABA2024you’re dropping this same comment in every thread. You don’t have to keep tearing Karen down, she moved on 😂

[@nickjones5495]

​@@owen-trombone idk why everyone is this invested in the first place.

[@electricgecko8997]

Did people ever think Karen did anything wrong? From first viewing I thought of her as an innocent who was collateral damage.

[@DABA2024]

She pretended to be drunk to hook up with (a very drunk) Jim. The way she just happened to be there with her car to scoop him up felt premeditated and predatory. She could have said “I’m not drinking, I have to drive” but she pretended to get drunk with them and had this plan the whole time.

[@F9109-r1e]

I don't think people ever thought she did anything wrong. But people were definitely rooting for Jim and Pam, and so it didn't get much thought at the time. It's much easier to look back on the show and pick it apart, but during the original run, the anti-Jim sentiment that's in a lot of these comments wasn't present.

[@lucaleone4331]

No I don't think anyone really thought that. This video and people in this comment section are so dramatic. I think we all saw the two were doomed and celebrated THEIR end, not necessarily "getting rid of Karen."

[@hannahz6848]

@@DABA2024you are definitely remembering this scene incorrectly

[@KamrenMCOC]

​@DABA2024 andy, jim, Karen all worked late. They were drinking (Karen obviously pretending so she could drive home) she leaves the building sees drunk jim fall over and offers him a ride. You are messed up in the head if you actually believe what you've been typing in these comments

[@littlefish-z6z]

You know what, I'm gonna go even a step further. Justice for Katie! She was really sweet and the way Jim broke up with her was horrible.

[@trentcockman7838]

totally agree, that often gets overlooked

[@littlefish-z6z]

@@trentcockman7838 I was so mad when Pam laughed at her for liking certain movies. It was the episode when Ryan started a fire

[@Mia199603]

@@littlefish-z6z yeah and Legally Blonde is regarded as a feminist classic nowadays, so like wtf are you laughing at Pammy :/

[@rachelmills5774]

Was that Amy Adams' character the purse saleswoman or something that all the guys in the office tried to get a date with? Yeah, I felt bad for her and how they tried to make her character look dumb.

[@claireneville1070]

Honestly Jim was a dick to any woman he dated who wasn’t Pam. I love Jim but that never sat well with me

[@lambs5258]

3:38 "In the 2000s, aloof shaggy-haired white dudes were all the rage" LMAOOO that is so true

[@mattmaddux]

I didn't watch this video to be personally attacked!

[@nicholaslogan6840]

Speaking from personal experience, I believe the 2000's may continue until we hit the 3000's.

[@Jazzmaster1992]

I used to work with someone like this, and he was still "all the rage", so I don't think it's really changed.

[@starlight8554]

Fr. I look at my type back then and it’s always slightly anaemic looking lanky white nerds in desperate need of a haircut

[@Dell-ol6hb]

honestly they're still pulling even today

[@RedSpice84]

This is my issue with most triangles. When the show decides it wants the audience to prefer one over the other, they try to demonize the other choice. Great video!

[@lucaleone4331]

Karen never seem demonized to me

[@Wasserkaktus]

​@@lucaleone4331No but the show clearly steered the narrative towards Jim and Pam, and even worse, made their relationship look like the "ideal" one, even though it was at its core pretty toxic, and in reality Karen would be a much better mate than Pam.

[@salempistorius7395]

My mom and I both got into The Office at the same time and as we were watching through it, she would often say things like "Don't stop looking until you've found someone who loves you like Jim loves Pam", and at the time I found it cute, but after some reflection and watching this video, she kind of fell into the exact same trap you're describing watching the show, rooting for these emotionally immature people who cheat and lie to their partners until they stop pretending and just get together. I still love this show, and the first few seasons are some of my favorites in television, but I they should not be seen as parables.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

I dont think the show is saying they're parables, Karen calls Pam kind of a bitch (rightfully so) and she also criticizes Jim after they break up

[@sofiasmusings]

“Turns out it’s a pretty easy gig when your boss isn’t an idiot and your boyfriend’s not in love with somebody else” I hate that I can relate to that line, but it’s also a little hilarious. At one point in my life a few years ago that was my exact reality, and I have grown as a person from it and moved on, and now I am happily single and working ‘for myself’ as an independent contractor.

[@micael6465]

you go gurl, do your thing!

[@sofiasmusings]

@@micael6465 Hahha, thank you so much!! :D you keep doing your thing too!

[@studioofshred1050]

The line doesn't 100% make sense because she was just an employee in Scranton and not regional manager. Still the sentiment is there and congrats to you as well

[@sofiasmusings]

@@studioofshred1050 that’s true! And thank you so much! I wish you the best :)

[@dayveo]

Those same office workers also never bothered telling Erin about Angela and Andy. I know the show was basically a cartoon by that point but it's still a parallel in the writing. (Edit: and now I'm remembering they never told Andy about Angela and Dwight!)

[@EF-kk3vh]

I’m not gonna lie when I was a teenager and watched the show I was really rooting for Erin and Andy and was so sad it got abandoned 😂 I thought it was way more fun than Jim and Pam 💀

[@agonefire]

Erin was too stupid of a character to ever sympathize with

[@dayveo]

@@agonefire I mostly agree although I don't think that makes her a bad character, just the show wasn't interested in telling many stories based in realism by that point. I did sympathize with her when she bonded with Michael as a father figure though and when Andy left her on the boat

[@Jojo-u6c]

@@agonefire r/whoosh.....that's the whole point. And she played that outrageous type of character perfectly. And for that character there's only the thinnest of grey areas and tightrope that you literally have to stay on at all times and a risk to play because you have no room for any type of slack and can easily move one inch to the left and/or to the right and then you fail in your portrayal. Because you have to be literally over the top and have an exaggerated personality.....and yet still believable as if that's literally a real person in real life. It's like how there's no wiggle room whern you play mentally challenged characters and roles like that and it's either great or it's really bad....there's no middle. Think Leo in Gilbert grape and Hoffman in Rainman and ect ect. Or you get John Travolta in that one movie...or like I am Sam and stuff like that. That's how her role is as her character and portrayal of it in the office tbh. And she literally pulls it off every episode and to the point she's the most adorable on the whole show.....And her portrayal as that character in the office is apparently so good......that she literally got to star in her own show and she's basically literally the same character on there that she is on the office.

[@Jojo-u6c]

@@agonefire @agonefire r/whoosh.....that's the whole point. And she played that outrageous type of character perfectly. And for that character there's only the thinnest of grey areas and tightrope that you literally have to stay on at all times and a risk to play because you have no room for any type of slack and can easily move one inch to the left and/or to the right and then you fail in your portrayal. Because you have to be literally over the top and have an exaggerated personality.....and yet still believable as if that's literally a real person in real life. It's like how there's no wiggle room whern you play mentally challenged characters and roles like that and it's either great or it's really bad....there's no middle. Think Leo in Gilbert grape and Hoffman in Rainman and ect ect. Or you get John Travolta in that one movie...or like I am Sam and stuff like that. That's how her role is as her character and portrayal of it in the office tbh. And she literally pulls it off every episode and to the point she's the most adorable on the whole show.....And her portrayal as that character in the office is apparently so good......that she literally got to star in her own show and she's basically literally the same character on there that she is on the office.

[@ogami1972]

That's why she changed her name to Ann Perkins and found a new life in Pawnee.

[@MayBlake_Channel]

And got stuck with an even bigger loser

[@colettepot7350]

She started there dating a pretty immature guy too…

[@cee3901]

When i heard people talk about Jim and Pam I genuinely thought there was no one like Karen and they just had a normal office type romance 😭 if i were Karen i genuinely would've gone crazy

[@falseprofit9801]

when dudes on Tinder say “Just a Jim looking for his Pam :)” 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

[@Tanekoshima]

Visceral cringe.

[@rishabhanand4973]

How bout a Jake looking for an Amy?

[@falseprofit9801]

@@rishabhanand4973 Anyone who even knows about B99 gets at least 10% more attractive for it

[@fishinspacey]

@@rishabhanand4973YUHH ‼️ green flag fr

[@catherinecampbell1215]

@@rishabhanand4973 That’s better.

[@ollybygolly9326]

Maturity is realizing Jim kind of sucks. From the Karen situation to how he wasn’t showing up for Pam late in the series either

[@maam-yj8ph]

That's the thing about these types of people in real life. They never improve in their communication and relationship skills even for the one they are truly in love with.

[@PanicGiraffe]

And pam sucks too. Sabotaging her husband's career and having an affair with Jim.

[@lucaleone4331]

Oh no. Totally normal situations that are extremely valid. Yeah he sucks for that.

[@myrojyn]

​@@PanicGiraffeshe cheated emotionally on Roy with Jim then cheated on Jim with camera guy

[@micael6465]

​@@myrojynpam never cheated with the camera guy tf

[@kezia8027]

Haven't even watched the video yet, but FR as Karen says "Pam is... kind of a bitch!" and honestly, people give both her and jim far too much leeway simply because they're the audience inserts. But they're both pretty assholish and I'm not sure I would enjoy working with either of them. But then, I am kind of an Oscar so I probably wouldn't get along with many of them except for the Kevins of the world.

[@KreisTyler]

I’ve had this exact same thought!

[@tbam73]

Jim and Pam were assholes

[@rachel5399]

I fell in love with Karen. She was so real, and the show sets you up to feel sorry for Jim's heartbreak of being rejected, but Karen gets chosen and led on, which is SO MUCH WORSE. Especially since she was lead on so substantially that she MOVED STATES for him. Poor Karen!

[@lucaleone4331]

Are you kidding? Michael was a freak. Angela was a true bitch and judgemental. Creed was insane. Kelly self obsessed. Ryan was a young douche, and then cringey douche. Meredith a thirsty alcoholic. Dwight was weird and unrelatable. Stanley grumpy and distant. And Andy kinda annoying. Jim, Pam, Phyllis and Kevin were the only ones I'd be friends with. You rarely see Jim and Pam butt heads with others. I don't know how they give "asshole to their co workers" energy >_

[@okaywow3486]

Jim and Pam were my least favorite characters. I often find the supporting cast more likable and entertaining than the main stars of most shows. Michael Scott, however, was the exception-he was my favorite character on the show.

[@Rachopin77]

Haven’t finished the video yet, but Thinking back on it, I basically feel like Karen was meant to be the one normal person, and she actually did get justice because she moved on after her toxic relationship with Jim and even got to laugh in Jim’s face later on in the show. Karen 100% got the only redemption possible, which was to not be in the crappy twilight zone Scranton office and move on with her life.

[@superquokka]

From a writing perspective I can see how they may have felt backed in a corner trying to keep the will-they-or-won’t-they dynamic going without retreading the same ground. I actually really liked the moment when Jim called the Scranton office after hours and Pam was still there to unexpectedly pick up the phone. They probably could have gone down another path reconnecting their romance. They didn’t need Karen. But tropes also exist for a reason, I suppose.

[@MayBlake_Channel]

In the podcast "Office Ladies" Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey said the writers actually hadn't decided what would happen with Jim and Pam yet. They said it was highly plausible that Jim and Pam would inadvertently "lead each other to their true loves" with Jim choosing Karen and Pam repairing things woth Roy

[@laurabowles]

Completely agree that Karen deserved better and Jim treated her horribly. Abandoning her in NYC was truly a dick move - surely he could have broken up with her via a proper adult conversation and then rushed off to ask Pam out to dinner. But, I also think it's helpful to keep in mind that while Jim was lying to Karen about his feelings for Pam, he was also lying to himself. I think he really did want to try to make it work. Obviously, he needed to develop better emotional intelligence to confront his true feelings (and like pretty much every character from 2000s TV, would really have benefitted from therapy), but I can have a little more compassion for his actions when I recognize how he couldn't even be honest with himself.

[@MsMinoula]

I think he wanted to make sure Pam would say yes before breaking up. He could always fake an emergency and go back to new York if there was a no. He is that type.

[@laurabowles]

@Alixir1228 I never said it absolved him of responsibility for hurting her. I can have compassion because he's doing the very human thing of trying to move on and get over someone. People are complex and two things can be true at once - that his actions were harmful, and that he was working through some very relatable stuff.

[@sammykent5752]

That's called being a human being. Get familiar with it​@Alixir1228

[@FerGalicia]

"...Pam is kinda diabolical..." sir you just expressed perfectly something I have not been able to articulate myself since I first watched this show, here's my like to you!

[@danielapardo9776]

I hate Pam more everytime I rewatch. Many people hate her because of Roy, but that's understandable. Her whole attitude is just so unlikeable, trying to be liked by everyone.

[@DABA2024]

Did Pam ever pretend to be drunk, while getting Jim hammered, to hook up with him?

[@lucaleone4331]

​@@danielapardo9776I mean that's part of growth. Part of the Karen Jim arc was Pam realizing she didn't need to be liked by everyone. Wtf?!

[@danielapardo9776]

@@lucaleone4331 but even after the triangle she continued to be like that. Everyone has flaws, I find that flaw extremely unlikeable.

[@whatteamwildcats4033]

​@@danielapardo9776 she's a pick me

[@Jazzmaster1992]

I'm genuinely unsettled by how "normal" it is for people in existing relationships to have eyes for other people, and seriously entertain other prospects when they're unhappy in their current situation. It seems like the concept of consciously and consistently being emotionally available to your current partner and "fighting" for them, and not considering other people until you're actually single, is rare nowadays. I've been given the exact same advice to pursue taken women, because somebody thinks she might like me, or that aggressively pursuing somebody who already has a partner will show her that I'm actually a better choice. It seems like a complete waste of time, and I can't imagine how I'd feel if I knew the person I'm with could be "persuaded" by some dude with a crush on her that can't simply move on and find somebody else. It's stuff like this that really makes it seem like staying single is the better choice, but I know it's easier said than done when feelings get involved.

[@LeechWife]

Well said, I agree 100%!

[@housewifehoneybee2784]

Karen ended up happy, married and pregnant. I am a big believer in we have to go through everything we do to end up where we are. If anything had changed Karen's path, she might not have ended up in that bar the night she met her husband. Maybe I feel this way because I personally went through hell for many years, but it landed me exactly where I was supposed to be to meet my husband.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

❤🎉❤

[@ranbummerz729]

I liked the episodes with idris elba because it knocked jim down a few pegs

[@l1brada]

Yes! For once Jim had to work and not do the bare minimum. Dwight was right.

[@coolchameleon21]

also, idris elba

[@MsMinoula]

It was Charle's redemption

[@lucaleone4331]

​@@l1bradayeah. Screw Jim for just doing his job and not over achieving >_

[@Pfpfpfpfpf2020]

​@@lucaleone4331 yeah, screw him if it means his co-workers have to shoulder his workload. I can't stand people who don't do their fair share and expect their coworkers to pick up the slack.

[@blisterwort]

ugh i remember being so invested in Pam and Jim that I haaaated Karen, looking back she was the most chill character who had appropriate reactions to her boyfriend being in a love triangle

[@terrylu1843]

After you see Pam become a mother to his kids, it’s seems like Karen dogged a bullet. His rejection was devine protection.

[@blccdcrange]

Karen's talking head making fun of Jim for looking at the camera is one of my favorites 😂

[@Cyril29a]

This triangle was real because it showed that attraction has nothing to do with reason and logic and you can do everything right and lose and also everything wrong and win. Love is complicated.

[@GraceCHenry]

Less than a minute in and I already clicked like. Karen was actually dope and would be the perfect woman for someone else.

[@Rachopin77]

Later on in the show didn’t Jim see her again at a different branch and she was pregnant and had moved on and had a healthy normal relationship with a dude she met not in the office? I don’t actually remember super clearly since it’s been so long since I watched it. But I remember her basically having completely moved on and Jim looks pathetic in that episode.

[@b0xman935]

​@@Rachopin77Yeah he was taken by Michael for business stuff and it was cool how she was happy with her life I wish Jim learnt something from that but no he's right back to office shenanigans

[@DABA2024]

@@Rachopin77i wonder if Karen’s new, healthy relationship also started with her pretending to be drunk, while getting the guy hammered and then taking him home. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Jim did that to Karen LOL. He’d be a rapist.

[@jenniferh5667]

@@Rachopin77yeah and they scan over to a picture of her and her husband that looks like Jim.

[@lucaleone4331]

​@@b0xman935what are you talking about. First off she wasn't with anyone at that time. Pam learns that later. And what's funny is she met the guy in a bar, and they have a dorky hotdog costume picture together. Which shows she's not as serious as everyone makes her out to be. And Jim wasn't there for office shenanigans. Dwight ans Michael broke their fuckin copier. It had nothing to do with Jim's shenanigans. He didn't even want to be there and tried to stay in the car.

[@swithheld9905]

i was OBSESSED with the Jim-Pam dynamic in my 20's, and convinced that I needed someone like Jim. I absolutely hated Karen for getting in between them. Oh how blind and wrong I was...

[@ellanina801]

Tbh Jim wasn’t all that great of a catch…. Karen was too cool for him anyways.

[@BCThunderthud]

Kind of similar to how every one of Ross Geller's girlfriends clearly dodged a bullet. Jim was never that bad but to the extent I wanted them to get together it was to get it over with.

[@MylingCyrus]

He would've held her back

[@pony7653]

Yes! More mature, more professional and above his league looks wise. The writers know it, she moved away, became manager of her own branch and married a doctor.

[@kenamelio4596]

Jim could have been better if he'd chosen to be. If he'd been willing to grow up, the two of them could have been running the whole company within a decade. Jim is constantly under achieving his capabilities, and if he'd really had someone pushing him I think he could have kept up. But that was always going to require learning to communicate openly and treat his partner with respect, which was unfortunately never part of his relationship with Karen. Watching it live, I felt badly for her every step of the way.

[@b0xman935]

Glad Karen moved to Pawnee Indiana and changed her name to Ann for some reason with a new job and is friends with a deputy Parks and recreation director named Leslie

[@notoriousquinnb]

I appreciate the context of someone who watched this back in the day and knew about the prevailing attitudes back when it aired. It was wild coming into this show during quarantine

[@notoriousquinnb]

(I am a little behind on a lot, clearly)

[@IAmMightyMike]

I can’t believe the Team Yellow slander

[@jaytheknife]

Love how T1J says being team Karen as it was airing was "cringe" and "wrong" and then immediately explains in detail why I was right the whole time! I was just as invested in Jim and Pam as everyone else but when Karen came on the scene I was like "Pam who?"

[@kenamelio4596]

Yeah, my main issue with "team Karen" at the time was not feeling like Jim was good enough for her. The way he treated her throughout was not great, but she was absolutely the best person of the three of them.

[@DABA2024]

@@kenamelio4596she got Jim drunk (while pretending she was drunk - super weird thing to pretend btw) and then took him home. She had that shit all planned out. What if Jim did that o her?!?!

[@alanarama]

I don't think she purposefully gets him drunk, Andy gives him the booze and itd be not a good plan for a woman to get drunk in an almost empty office building and then have to catch a cab etc. Also I don't think it was ever implied that anything happened because Jim could barely get in the car. I always though she just dropped him home. ​@@DABA2024

[@btarczy5067]

The most annoying Love Triangle in The Office was probably Michael, Jan and teenager but I get your point. This one was luckily more memorable.

[@btarczy5067]

I mean… Yeah, it’s unfair but at least in my opinion everyone acted in an understandable if sometimes shitty way. It’s not as much annoying as it is good drama in a comedy series.

[@Blazee2897]

I wish I was that teenager 😅

[@snortsalineoflavender]

@@Blazee2897you want to be groomed and sexually abused? okay.

[@dovahkiinchickennugget4182]

I was so baffled that Jim straight up ditches Karen and goes to a whole other city without saying anything. She goes to lunch with a friend not knowing her ride back to Scranton took off. Wtf is that breakup dude? 😂

[@mythwest]

While it was kind of advertised as “wow ok she’s weird” that Karen promised she would stick it out till Jim gets back with her, And then she leaves the next day, it’s actually a sign of her maturity. She realized that it’s not smart to wait for a guy like that who is stuck on someone else. If anything the real hero is Karen, a great example of not messing around with someone who’s heart isn’t totally in it, who doesn’t know what they want, and being able to move on.

[@sammykent5752]

She didn't promise she'd stick it out until Jim gets back with her. She said she'd stick it out because she's a professional and was willing to do her job DESPITE Jim. She wasn't waiting for Jim for anything.

[@anezay4987]

Every time I rewatch The Office, I hate Jim a little more, I hate Pam a little more, and I hate Jim and Pam a little more. Also, Instinct is the best Pokemon Go team.

[@kingbeauregard]

Same here. They're generally pleasant people, but they're selfish jerks when all is said and done.

[@michaelotis223]

This. At least in the UK version, Tim and Dawn weren't punching down!

[@Dark_Tesla]

You had my like until that last part

[@anezay4987]

@@Dark_Tesla Can't win them all.

[@JLE8811]

The exact same thing for me. I don't even rewatch it any more bc of them. It's only Parks and Rec for m3.

[@jcnot9712]

An opinion I feel completely alone in is that both Jim and Pam are much more Machiavellic in their actions than anyone gives them credit for. In a sense, they deserve each other because of this.

[@Linklex7]

Getting older is realizing Dwight was right about Jim. Though he did still have a soft spot for Pam.

[@4yesha.04]

@@jcnot9712 how? apart from this karen thing

[@Enderception]

I disagree with saying Pam was in any way scheming or Machiavellic, she's another casualty in the shitstorm, and she seemed genuine when she tried to be friends with Karen or when trying to rekindle her friendship with Jim despite knowing they wouldn't be together

[@sammykent5752]

​@@Linklex7what?

[@kt.rdj.]

Great video on Karen, she deserved so much better. I also think Katy deserved better. She was nothing but nice and bubbly but Jim was so mean to her and Pam just made fun of her. They are just the worst.

[@Petitedelight87K]

I was thinking the same thing about Katy.

[@signalfire15]

It’s a very classic love triangle trope - bring in the right and obvious-on-paper partner for the protagonist, only to have him/her choose the toxic but passionate match instead. I always end up rooting for the practical choice because I prefer realistic depictions of love rather than Hollywood fairytales. I now go in knowing to never root for the practical match because I will get my heart broken. But my biggest issue with this type of love triangle is that it usually makes me dislike the people involved because they are being deceptive and immoral in a lot of the actions they take while they are in the process of “figuring out their feelings.” By the end of it, I no longer even wish for happiness for the members of the toxic pairing, just because I view them as being bad people.

[@Riverlily12]

Oh god this is spot on. It makes me think of the whole mordecai and marget love triangle with cj from regular show

[@SKULLKR3W]

bro is rashida jones was into me pam wouldnt get a second look

[@pony7653]

For real, Rashida Jones is stunning.

[@dickottel]

I like them both but obviously they made Pam look a little unattractive at first and Karen was skinny and had more makeup and more professional looking hair

[@longestbeann]

Weird comment

[@lucaleone4331]

Gross. Considering how many rude comments they make about both their looks in the show.

[@kristataylor4129]

Yeah very true. Pam just seems too easy anyways. She's like a chubby teddy bear 😂

[@elanzankman4399]

Great video! I think it's hilarious that almost everyone loved Jim and Pam a decade ago, and now it feels like almost everyone hates Jim and Pam now. It's like we all collectively grew up. I think what irks people is that both Jim and Pam have main character syndrome, which they literally are main characters, but since the Office is meant to feel realistic they sorta come off as douchebags. They think their love is special, more special, and they sorta look down on their coworkers even though Jim and Pam are literally on the same level as them.

[@nanabonsu2349]

I knew Karen got given a raw deal but I never realised how diabolical Jim and Pam's actions were towards her. But I don't think Pam's fire walk speech and friendship had genuinely ill intentions. I think she honestly saw a potential friend in Karen and was also really upset to lose Jim as a friend, but expecting him to stay friends with you just because you called off your wedding is pretty nasty work. Also, I always thought it was weird that they made Rashida Jones Italian. What you said about an interracial relationship has straight up blown my mind. Makes a lot of sense

[@dickottel]

how would that be different if she wasn't white? would his actions be considered racist, but if you're an asshole to a white woman it's not that bad? I guess some people would say Jim's racist, because they don't understand treating someone like poo is different than treating someone like poo because of their skin color. You can be shitty to a biracial person without racism.

[@mustang8206]

They had a gay character and a white man dating an Indian. You really think they were worried about a someone who's half black dating Jim?

[@PhoebeGupta]

@@mustang8206 also Rashida Jones' ethnicity also isn't made clear in Parks and Recreation, due to which Leslie(Amy Poehler) called her "multiethnic fairy" or something cheesier and sweeter than that in the show.

[@eeen4119]

@@mustang8206exactly what im saying

[@PrimetimeX]

@@mustang8206they also had a black man dating an indian, a gay mexican kissing a straight white man, a black man cheating on his wife with a white woman, and a white and indian woman pining over a black manager. People trying to turn this into a racism thing are pathetic

[@JB-fp3fb]

Just a small correction to what you say at around 5:10, which I think actually reinforces your overall point about Jim being manipulative; Jim and Karen don't actually start dating (nor does he really seem to show much romantic interest in her) until after it's announced that he will be getting transferred back to Scranton (i.e. where Pam is).

[@The_amazing_dust]

Maturing is realising that Jim and Pam sometimes were bad people. Jim always put Pam ahead of his current girlfriends and continuosly flirted with an engaged woman. Pam, as said engaged woman, continuosly flirted with Jim, but never fully comitted nor broke it off with neither Jim nor Roy. Not to mention their respective confessions to each other, while the other was in a relationship. Especially Pam, who did it infront of Karen. You just don't do that. Nothing good comes from this. You either hurt every single person involved or your new partner now has left their commited relationship for a spur of the moment confession. The relationship will last exactly until the next ill timed confession from someone else.

[@Vindominus]

Every time I see Rashida Jones, I'm like "OH it's Ann Perkins!" 😂

[@kylerbauer9776]

Same

[@Angieth24]

Jim also wasn’t officially dating Karen before the Stamford crew heads to Scranton. You see him sitting at his Stamford desk, contemplating whether he's going to agree to go back to the Scranton branch, then he stands up and tells Karen she should go too. So it's like he knew she was into him and he purposely urged her to go to Scranton, too, so he could basically weaponize her against Pam. Who, btw, was SINGLE at the time the branches merged, so Jim & Pam totally could've revisited their past WITHOUT hurting anyone else in the process.

[@sleepyblue8]

“You guys aren’t as charming as you think you are.” - Guy Jim Walked in the Bathroom On

[@lizchesley6028]

15:06 I’ve ALWAYS thought Pam was very conniving and calculated.

[@Eli0223]

I lowkey forgot about Karen, everytime I look back on the show I always remembered it as he was single the whole time.

[@thehillisalive]

i'm glad they showed her being successful and happily married not long afterwards though. I don't think Karen needs justice because she definitely moved on and seemed to be doing great

[@McFlingleson]

This is tangentially related, but I always sympathized with Roy when Pam tells him she kissed Jim. I don't think charging into the office to punch Jim's head off was necessarily the ideal way to handle that, but he was definitely right to be extremely angry about that.

[@Cdr2002]

I would also stop short of wrecking a completely unrelated person’s business

[@LookingForAName...]

Problem was not being angry, it was expressing anger in a violent way

[@jijitters]

Nah I can't follow you on this one. Roy was a horrible person throughout the show before that even happened, and she was already making a mistake giving him a second chance. It was made very clear in the show that even if Jim didn't exist, Roy was not a good partner and Pam needed to free herself from him. And Roy immediately exploding into violence not once, but twice, makes him a clear danger and he sacrificed his right to sympathy.

[@pelicanhill3251]

@@jijitters Roy was a horrible person, but he was also in a committed relationship with Pam and Jim knew that. So he still had a right to be mad. Pam could have broken up with him at any time, but she didn't.

[@jijitters]

@pelicanhill3251 Agreed on most points, except that there is no excusefor violence. But, I was only disagreeing with OP feeling "sympathetic" towards him.

[@kingbeauregard]

1) Jim and Pam have done a ton to make real-life dating worse. People pick up their cues on how dating works from TV - particularly if they don't have a ton of real-world experience - and the message on every TV show is, the mopey guy just needs to PERSIST and the woman will eventually fall for him. Guys see themselves as Jim to whatever Pam they fancy. They really ought to consider that they are actually Toby: of no interest to Pam, and just accept it and move on. 2) Team Karen to this day. Karen was a much better match for Jim than Pam was - Pam's deal was that she was passive and harmless and unwilling to tell Jim to comb his hair like a goddamn adult - but Karen was looking so good by comparison, they had to throw in material to make her less sympathetic, just to keep Pam in the running. 3) Karen tried to make the relationship work despite the red flags. I won't fault her for that; it's always hard to tell whether a relationship is salvageable. 4) Jim really is bereft of positive qualities. He's pleasant, yes; but he almost never does anything to help anyone else. How much better this show would have been if Jim used his reluctance to actually do any work, to help people. FOR EXAMPLE: near the end of the series, Angela had all of her cats taken away; imagine how much better the episode would have been if Jim used his powers to get Angela's home declared a shelter for homeless cats so she could get her cats back. Then in the confessional, Jim could say: "On the one hand, I didn't get any actual work done today. On the other hand, I became an expert in how to work the system to declare people's homes animal sanctuaries. All in all, a pretty good day. ... ... I think I'm going to make Dwight's home a moose sanctuary."

[@Linklex7]

Maturing is realizing Dwight was right about Jim

[@kingbeauregard]

@@Linklex7 Dwight is about the only one of them I would want to work with. Stanley and Oscar would be all right too.

[@manunimmala1462]

This is a genius idea

[@lucaleone4331]

Your points are just bad lol

[@bib4eto656]

Yes yes yes! For point 1, most of the guys saying "I'm a Jim looking for his Pam" are actually a Toby in real life.

[@averyeml]

I think they made Karen Italian not just to avoid having to deal with the broader “issue” of Jim dating a woman of color, but specifically so they could have a romantic triangle (that nobody cared about, she can do better) without Michael throwing truly hideous racial jokes towards one of the “rivals”

[@jijitters]

The first thing Michael says to Karen in the show is a racist joke, so 😭 idk if that's it since they did it anyway.

[@averyeml]

@@jijitters I mean you’re right and not long after she showed up they toned Michael down but let’s be real, if he pulled some nonsense cartoon voices like he did with Stanley or Kelly in those early seasons while she’s trying to be dramatic, the vibes would’ve been off af

[@mjbankhead9063]

@@jijittersif I remember correctly Michael asked Karen if her dad was a G.I. because she looked “exotic”…I was like 💀😭

[@rishabhanand4973]

​@@mjbankhead9063oh shit. That must have gone so over my head that i forgot he said it entirely. But now i get it and oh my God that's messed up

[@averyeml]

@@mirabela1344 Rashida jones, the actress playing Karen, is half black and the daughter of famous musician and music producer Quincy Jones

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

Are any love triangles not annoying?

[@T1J]

i suppose that's subjective but i can't think of another one where one person clearly did absolutely nothing wrong and still received the brunt of the abuse and consequences. thats what makes it so bad for me lol

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

The only ‘love triangle’, which isnt even really a love triangle, I like is Past Lives. It actually explores the realistic turnout of events when you are interested in someone, and they in you, and it doesn’t work out becuz of timing or geography, which is quite common irl, and in the end you just don’t get together. There is no fairytale destiny, its just making it work. And in Past Lives Hae-Sung is still chasing this unrequited possible love of his, while Nora and Arthur are already happily married, though clearly Nora is also through the process letting go of this past self she left behind in Korea. Idk ppl considered it a love triangle movie so if thats the case i think its the least annoying version of it

[@tapset]

Sopranos love triangles werent

[@filiaaut]

Love triangles is a very popular recipe for drama, especially the "actually just an angle" B and C both love A, and A hesitates between the two. They are often written in because the writers needed an obstacle and that one would do, as opposed to chosen because the writers had an interesting twist on the formula. In the case of the Office, and many long running American TV series, they had a couple that was introduced pretty early on as possibly end-game, but they couldn't have them be together too soon, so they needed scenaristic obstacles to prevent them to get together. Using a love triangle as one of these obstacles is quite common and it's rarely satisfying because one of the branches is kind of doomed from the beginning. Writers have to navigate a tight line between making sure both lines are believable (even though one of them has been established earlier and the audience already root for them) and avoid dissatisfaction when you resolve the triangle (if too many people preferred the pair who is broken). Love triangles that were intended from the start to be part of a narrative, from authors who have a better grasp on the timing of everything have a better shot at being good. For instance, novel writers can, to a certain extent, choose the length of their novel ; Korean drama writers don't get to choose, but they typically know from the start how long the entire show will last, contrary to American sitcom writers or mangakas who might have to extend a story for years if it is successful, or it might stop brutally if it isn't, so filler intrigues are kind of necessary, and it's not easy to make filler really compelling. Time management isn't the only issue, a popular trope is likely to be popular among bad writers as well, sometimes people screw up just because they're not very good. But in the case of the Office, I really think it failed because their love triangle was a filler and not something they really wanted to bring into the story for a good reason.

[@Teddy-hp9zy]

Karen and Pam shoulda gotten together and left Jim in the dust

[@gur3478]

FR

[@soap9752]

this is the best comment i have ever seen on youtube thank you

[@Vkpz]

Jim and Dwight should’ve been endgame too 😂

[@kristataylor4129]

Lol that 2ould have been perfect! Although I definitely could have seen Jan and Pam together. Jan is the very tough and bossy type while Pam is like a puppet 😂

[@snortsalineoflavender]

frrrr

[@elili8016]

I always hated Jim and Pam’s relationship. All the backstabbing and love triangle is so immature.

[@Mikhavoc]

"jim and pam are the worst" 100%

[@oldenough7943]

I’ve been in Karen’s position and man when you really fall for the other person it can really break you

[@margarethmichelina5146]

For someone whose name is Karen, she is actually one of the most normal character of the show along with David Wallace. Jan also used to be normal and reasonable until she dated Michael and got fired. Angela is the real "Karen" of the show.

[@MangoMann072]

I love how you called out Jim and Pam as being shiesty as they're considered the best characters by many of the shows fans.

[@DororoXPenana]

I feel a lot of people call them the best cause they act like real people. There are people who are just terrible in regards to relationships and will do shitty things and not think about the consequences. It's interesting to see BUT they never really grow out of their habits hence why Jim and Pam had so many bumps occur once they got together (lack of communication being the biggest one). It would have been nice to see them grow and think back like, wow I was really shitty during those other times. But they never do, and that's also pretty realistic too unfortunately.

[@evadobuseva7240]

This is a common discussion between me and my husband (he thinks Karen deserved better, me thinking that everyone of them made mistakes). After a while we agreed that Jim handled the whole situation poorly, especially when he admitted that he still has feelings for someone else, that's pretty much a relationship ender. Not only that but those two genuinely don't belong together - Karen is ambicious goal oriented person, whereas Jim is not really. And I don't think that Pam has been doing things to break them up, since she has had a weird "friendship" with Jim way before Karen showed up. Sometimes I like to think that Karen and Pam would've been pretty good friends if Jim was never part of this.

[@PC-ni6bp]

I ALWAYS wished that Pam didnt get together with Jim. The second that she was actually with Jim she was sidelined by the story and just became "Jims girl." I hate Jim so much tho so idk

[@oliviashel]

Completely agree. I enjoyed Pam scenes much more when Jim wasn’t there. When he was, it was like she was just attached to his side and was there to back his character up.

[@serenitynow85]

17:25 "Do I need to be liked, absolutely not. I like to be liked. I enjoy being liked. I have to be liked. But it's not this compulsive need to be liked..."

[@samsaek666]

Upon rewatch you realize Karen is the good guy and Jim is the villain

[@blampfno]

Karen was: 1. Better looking 2. More mature 3. Focused 4. Fun 5. Not engaged

[@babbisp1]

Pam was better looking and had more fun with Jim. And I don't know about maturity, but Pam was probably the most emotionally intelligent character on the show. If maturity is a standard you take seriously, then Michael must be the worst character on the show, since he's the most immature. It was wrong of Jim to pull Karen into this. What he should've done is never date Karen at all. Also, when you say "focused", you probably meant "ambitious".

[@ShipperTrash88]

Jim was not in love with her, he was in love with Pam.....so none of those reasons matter in the slightest

[@babbisp1]

@@ShipperTrash88 Exactly. This 100%.

[@pelicanhill3251]

All of these things are true, but in fairness, love is never logical. I think that was kind of the point of having Karen date Jim. She's amazing, and logically he should stay with her, but he has a stronger connection to Pam. I'm fine with that, but Jim just handled it so terribly.

[@ShipperTrash88]

@@babbisp1 From the very 1st episode we know how Jim feels about Pam. I didn't have anything against Karen, but I don't understand people who think we were supposed to be rooting for Jim & Karen when its so obvious that he still loves Pam 😄

[@lostieaddict]

Karen CHOSE to move to Scranton to persue the chance of a relationship with Jim. Jim never forced or tried to persuade her to do this. It was her choice, not his manipulation. She soon realised she could end up being nothing but a rebound, but NO ONE forced her to talk down to Jim about his interests so many times or reject his ideas for things that might be fun. Karen rejected Jim quite a few times and made it pretty obvious that she wanted him to be more serious. The prime example of this is when Karen was mocking Michael Scott's character in a conversation with Jim during their job interviews for Jan's place at corporate. There was no humor in her by that point for Jim or for Jim's respect for Scott. Imediately after doing so, Karen walked out the corporate building to go hang out with her friends rather than support and wait for Jim during his own interview. She wasn't supportive of Jim for his corprate interview in the slightest. She was bitter.

[@muticere]

I didn't know anyone thought Karen did anything wrong. Than again, fans are vicious and irrational, especially when a show is currently on the air. For me, I feel like Karen was vindicated at least in spirit by her actor moving on to be in Parks and Rec. IDK, even though it's not the same character, being the same actor and made by the same people makes it sting a little less.

[@kurteisner67]

The fact that essentially all people I know who watched the show as well as here in the comments agree that Karen was never broadly disliked, even back then, shows that this - if it even happened - was an absolute niche phenomenon.

[@DABA2024]

Did you guys miss when she got Jim drunk under false pretences and then just happened to be there to scoop him up and take him home? Pam texted him that night and he never wrote back. Why? Because Jim was passed out. Karen deleted the text. No way Jim wouldn’t have responded. Reverse the genders and Karen is a predator. Why’d she lie about being drunk?!?!

[@the-berries-and-cream-dude]

Also the idea that they were gonna have Jim cheat on Pam, even though it 100% would’ve ruined his character, it would actually be very on brand of him to do.

[@lucaleone4331]

Literally wouldn't have been on brand. Wtf....

[@travisgriggs7815]

Swing and a miss

[@Reeupmvp]

They was planning to have Pam have an affair with one of the cameraman

[@kamikazeeOG]

Dude, no joke, perfect ad placement. That was probably the exact way I would want to be advertised to. Extremely subtle, almost dream-like transition, and on top of that, it looks like something I would genuinely be interested in. Nice work.

[@hhhsp951]

I f*cking love Dwight at every point in this series. #TheFirstRuleOfDwightClub

[@dickottel]

beets 🐻🐻

[@JLE8811]

He is the actual hero of the show.

[@nischesharma]

Dwight and angela best couple fact

[@sammykent5752]

​@@nischesharmayeah, f*ck Andy I guess

[@snortsalineoflavender]

real

[@alexanderguerrero347]

She had a fun comeback episode

[@joshz2491]

Here is what I think Karen is innocent until “the return” the episode Andy punches the hole in the wall. At the end of that episode she straight up confronts Jim asking if he still has feelings for Pam. He is honest and says yes, he doesn't lie. But then the next episode she is still dating him and only sees his feelings as a rough patch. At this point is when I lost any sympathy for her. Jim was honest with her she is the moron who did not end the relationship

[@tomoakley760]

I don't think Jim set out to intentionally manipulate Karen. I think he was lying to himself first and foremost, and his whole mistreatment (and eventual dropping) of Karen emerges from that fundamental act of self deception. But Karen was blameless, her only "error" was betting on the wrong horse, but it's not like she knew all the preamble with Pam and Jim before moving to scranton.

[@flamingodahlia3703]

You can't work through a relationship when your partner has feelings for someone else.

[@kezia8027]

LMAO I can't believe I'm getting called out for being Team Karen as WELL as Team Yellow q.q

[@Xylus.]

I also used to ride hard for this fictional relationship, but now I'm on team "Jim is a sociopath"

[@tee3835]

Agreeeed, i always was annoyed about their relationship where they were just allowed to get away with treating people like crap because tHeY aRde In LoVe!

[@Kevin-Schmevin]

Karen was so much hotter, and cooler. She was way out of Jims league, so I was fine with her dodging that bullet.

[@EmmaGodLovesTruth95]

Jim and Pam actually are the worst… after rewatching it they are just immature cringey bullies and hard to watch -_-

[@sadistksuffring1537]

No justice for Karen, she wasn't manipulated. Jim was a guy just trying to move on with his life at that point. While he should've said something about Pam, that doesnt mean he was manipulating her. He wasn't attempting to control her with some sort of malicious intent. Jim just realized he and Karen weren't right for each other and he wasn't over Pam, so ended it. You can see they aren't right for each other earlier on when Roy tries to punch Jim and Dwight pepper sprays him; when Jim is genuinely asking what Karen thinks he can do to thank Dwight, Karen says "how about you get back to work". I think it just snapped in his mind when he said she didn't have to wait around for the interview and she said good because she wanted to go out with her friends.

[@Booklat1]

6:20 funnily enough picking team instinct is also a lot less cringe nowadays than it was

[@chrishagins3309]

Jim and Pam seem like they'd be insufferable in a real life workplace.

[@Belluser-we1uc5cb2l]

I used to work in an office fresh out of business school. I was young, and all the married and engaged women were all fooling around with the men in the building. My married boss was fooling around with the engaged file clerk. The new girl, within 2 months was sleeping with the married janitor of the building. She was engaged. 🤢

[@anothername2730]

Good commentary!

[@T1J]

Thanks!

[@aw12121]

The way she yelled at Jim in the office makes me think he broke up via text

[@skelling3687]

In the extended cut of the episode Karen said she wasn't actually that mad and was just stalling so someone could put something in their car.

[@aw12121]

@@skelling3687 Wow! How funny.

[@Martcapt]

The only two adults in The Office: Karen and David Wallace

[@tori.doe.]

THANK YOU! I have waited so long for just ONE person to speak on this. To this day, cannot stand J&P and the many times they’ve tried to re-create this couple on other shows. I’ve feared that Abbot Elementary would go the same “will they, won’t they” route that I have yet to catch up on the latest season, in spite of liking the show.

[@beatrixwickson8477]

And to add insult to injury Karen had to go on to have her name turned into a slur.

[@JakeKoenig]

Glad to see someone calling it a slur. Because that's what it is.. an anti-white racial slur. I don't even think anyone is bothering to dispute that anymore.

[@DavidMDevich]

@@JakeKoenig lol anybody can be a “Karen”, no matter their race or identity-they just have to be doing Karen shit. The term doesn’t specifically target nor does it only apply to white people.

[@zchris87v80]

​@@JakeKoenig lol anti-white is not racist

[@luca57882]

​@@JakeKoenig it's more of an anti-woman slur. Assertive women who want to get what they payed for, don't take rudeness from people and have their own money, people are scared of that and hate to see it.

[@whatteamwildcats4033]

​@luca57882 it's more like people don't like racism, homophobia, judging other women for existing rather than calling your husband out for staring at them, recording people's children in a public area while you scream for using that public area, generally acting like you have any power or sway in area's that you don't, and screaming/insulting people in work settings where they cannot fight back because you want the rules bended for your personal satisfaction and escalating the situation because your upset is more the issue. I just straight up don't believe the upset about the 'karen' term is valid in anyway, I just think yall don't like that there's now a term for your behavior

[@Haciendaafri]

You know you have good content when you give us spoiler alert about what the video is about and we still watch it.

[@Taalanos]

Jim and Pam are *clears throat* the WORRSTT!!

[@JDarkseid1]

Learning about Cheers really helped me appreciate messed up love triangles like this, even if nobody has topped Fraiser being the third wheel and getting to vent all of the audience's frustrations and then telling the other parties to screw off. And then he just stuck around and seethed anyways, and continuted to be a hot mess himself into a spinoff. I appreciate Karen just moved on and doesn’t let old grudges control her. Nice change to the usual end result up to that point.

[@Philboshaba]

Love this short form videos. I always appreciate the long form but as I get older I can’t sit through them anymore. Still love this channel! Thank you for the years of content.

[@serious323]

Never stop making these videos❤️ Pam is kinda cringe with her relationship with Jim. She friend zoned him and only seemed to get feelings for Jim as soon as she rejected him. It's like when someone has a dream of someone and all of a sudden they are in love with that person when before absolutely no interest.

[@vgcq02]

I am so glad you said that Michael Scott’s advice to Jim was actually bad advice. In real life, the good advice would have been to tell Jim to accept it, move on, and work on yourself.