The MOTU Snake Lair Playset we never had...and never will?

[@Pixel-dan]

Yay or nay on the snake lair?

[@Pandaskullahh]

Nay

[@blackphoenix77]

Nay. It was too big and it looked nothing like the one we were promised

[@Stoppy2k]

Nay..far too big. Give us the Pixel Dan origins figure instead!

[@lordtao5617]

I want a snake lair, the SDCC was too big.

[@durkadurka4506]

Nay...only just rearranged the toy room to fit Eternia, don't fancy building an extension just yet.

[@astonmartin5332]

Feels like the simpsons episode when Homer designed his car.

[@Harpoquondrax]

This monstrosity costs eighty-two thousand dollars?!?!

[@ADAM_COLLECTS]

this MONSTROSITY COST $82,000?!

[@Mstari-ym3mw]

The concept art has a nostalgic vibe to it. It has a clamshell design. The snake head on the entrance looked like the Snake Men logo we’re all use to. And I feel the jungle theme looks fun. Had they stuck with that design, I think it would have not only appealed to more people, but it would have been cheaper to produce.

[@baconpancakes2851]

I think Frieght Zone ans Slime pit needs to be just a regular release on Mattel Creations rather than a crowd fund.

[@Sneltje]

So true!

[@brianoneil3362]

I the slime pit should have an option to slime the heroes without actually pouring slime on them like a translucent green plastic or soft green rubber that you can tangle the figure up in

[@twotonedearly]

or at retail too, just to keep them out of the hands of Ebay flippers and scalpers

[@BARBELLSTOBUDDHAS]

Yes! And at RETAIL!

[@ShutoStriker]

Noooo make them both retail. Cartoon collection Fright Zone + Turtles of Grayskull slime pit. Their exclusive online price will be high + shipping cost on Mattel creations. Both of these sets are simple and cheap.

[@stevenfraser81]

Credit to Mattel for reading the room, doing this survey and pulling the plug rather than pushing ahead and complaining when they get no backers. Not many other crowd funded toy project companies would do this.

[@PabEsco77]

Good point, I agree

[@idkwhattohaveasausername5828]

Doing the bare minimum shouldn’t get praise imo

[@PabEsco77]

@@idkwhattohaveasausername5828 lol also a good point

[@Dghost24]

Did they? If they did we weren't talking here about it. Looks to me like damage controle as they have to choice to listen or they are out the door.

[@The-Thran]

We got a snake lair it’s called Snakemountain.

[@brianbuchmeier]

You're Doom Tower/ Fright Zone/ Slime Pit idea sounds epic!

[@THX1968]

The Snake Lair won the vote because the concept art DID have a nostalgic vibe to it. What was revealed at SDCC did not. The "no nostalgia" & "doesn't match concept" vote actually go hand in hand.

[@grrrraffe]

Yeah, apparently Axel designed the Snake Lair as a mirror version of the concept art for the doorknob playset from the '80s. It gave '80s vintage cred to the playset. -- Which is probably why Mattel tossed a Rattletrap to this thing they revealed in SDCC2024; to give some 80s motu design to it. I am really happy that Mattel seems to be wanting to meet the fans halfway and make adjustments to the eventual release of the Snake Lair playset. Wooo hoo!! Origin's rules!!

[@WiSMs]

I think the vote was fixed since they kept leaning hard in Snake Men stuff before and after the vote, lol.

[@ggary04]

I think now that people think they can manipulate Mattels decision they think they can get the Fright Zone.

[@AleisterFuchs]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@grrrraffewhat exactly do you mean by “mirror version of the 80s doorknob playset”? What is that?

[@grrrraffe]

@@AleisterFuchs - if you search for the "Masters of the Universe Origins Fisto card back", you'll notice (behind Fisto) that there's an '80s concept art for a playset intended to have hung from a nail or doorknob. If you look at it, and imagine it mirrored, you'll notice how similar it is to the front of the Snake Lair that's on Fang-Or and Lady Slither's recent box art. For the best view of the playset idea, search for "Ted Mayer concept playset". Look for the image where He-Man is standing on a drawbridge and man-at-arms is sliding down a line. Pretty cool stuff. Axel did a good job providing us something old-school masters-like. Hope this helped!

[@thevectorcave3616]

The snakehead over the door looked much cooler in the grayskull style as on the picture, than the green painted on the prototype. 😁

[@happybuttersblast8334]

this one they did for the crowdfund looks 200X style , not Origins/Vintage style like the Sketch.

[@ashzombi3131]

yeah its missing the side snakes

[@ademitchell2251]

The Original Snake Lair concept is what I voted for. It had a creepy retro feel to it and I thought that it would be a similar size to the vintage Fright Zone. The physical reveal looked waaaaay too busy, big and obviously too expensive.

[@pinkubusXtreme]

I definitely dont want them to drop the snake lair entirely. we just wanted a fortress for our snakemen without having to make room for another eternia sized playset. The original snake lair DESERVES a proper playset. Just one that scales with grayskull and snake mountain

[@canadiacookie]

I really just wanted the Lair we've seen in art all this time. They could have just given us the original concept, added the Rattle Trap and given us 3-4 figures as tiers. If they kept the bait and switch set I would have backed it but I wouldn't have lost any sleep if it didn't fund.

[@13cdc]

I believe this comment represents almost all of us

[@ALLmyTRAINS]

Wait wait NOSTALGIC component can be reached if something new has nostalgic concept! Snake lair in the size and concept of Grayskull and Snake Mountain, closing the same way and having a handle will be in nostalgic mode! 🤭

[@CringerKitty]

Yes, exactly.

[@masongoliver]

I voted for Fright Zone. Still crossing my fingers for that release

[@brianoneil3362]

I’m still not convinced that the snake lair actually won. Seems strange that they come out with countless snake men and then tmnt snake men if the plan wasn’t for a playset all along.

[@jacobstoner208]

The concept art felt like the vintage MOTU playset we never got. What they made with the chunky snakes was like a Playskool playset, plus too big and too expensive. I'm really surprised OG Fright Zone didn't win the fan vote. That's all anybody talks about wanting in the comments, and we DO have nostalgia for that

[@happybuttersblast8334]

The vehicle is cool, i think that as a mattel creations exclusive would work on its own and sell as it had concept art from the 80's a vehicle they decided not to make back then. I think if they did away with the big snake head on the right and made the snake on the front of lair more like in the sketch and made the colors similar even though its muted and more drab it works well as it feels like it would have been designed in the 80's for motu. But whatever they do, keep the Iron Maiden. I will riot if we dont get an Iron Maiden for origins lol.

[@BoskoBuha99]

Thats what i voted for. Hope they will make a retail Fright Zone.

[@CattyMintgum]

you hit the nail right on the head, it does look like an imaginext playset lmao

[@CraigAlanMurray1977]

I’m also surprised the fright zone didn’t win either and without seeing the data a🥲I’m unsure if that was ever the case👍

[@subraxas]

The OG Fright Zone is a garbage playset by design. As a kid, I always rather wanted for the Evil Horde the PROPER base from the cartoon.

[@domls1317]

The bait and switch just sullied my anticipation for the Snake Lair to the point that I dont even want one now if it was done exactly like the concept art. They knew what we wanted so why would they do the opposite?

[@TheGoodDr8133]

Not only are Mattel and Hasbro pricing out Collectors, a lot of us Collectors are going to age out soon enough....

[@Scumpittoys]

At what point does someone age out. I work at a comic shop where I have dudes in there late 60s coming in to get comics toys and statues still.

[@josephbrowning2968]

When the target audience/ collectors who grew up with the original products are dead and gone..​@Scumpittoys

[@berkajr3685]

Great breakdown, but you should have had for the 2nd question the additional option of "We don't live in North America" so we can't purchase it" option. Because Many MOTU fans live across the pond and would love to buy more stuff. But we cant order via Mattel Creations, so ordering via BBTS, would be an additional cost and therefore a huge detractor.

[@AssistantProfessor]

To the Mattel team (if they are reading this): Please complete the vintage MOTU line, as you have promised. Work to release the Fright Zone, the Slime Pit. Why not do a Hurricane Hordak and Mantisaur two pack? Come up with ways to release as many vintage vehicles as possible - including crowdfunding/preorder if retail is unavailable - but focus on completing the 1980s line.

[@ShutoStriker]

Hell yeah I want that giant black spider vehicle with the red legs too (forget the name)

[@AssistantProfessor]

@@ShutoStriker Spydor :) me too. And don't forget the monstrous Monstroid :) So much cool stuff is yet to be released.

[@FortressofFanitutde]

I completely agree with you. I think Mattel pushed the expanded Snake Men line and the Snake Lair so that they could push off finishing the vintage line. I'm not sure what they're worried about, as focusing on Filmation will continue to make them a lot of money. I just want to finish the vintage characters and get a Slime Pit and Fright Zone.

[@magdump4456]

​​@@FortressofFanitutdedo you already have a set of the actual vintage ones? Instead of collecting remakes of originals I would just collect the originals they're around and part of the fun is hunting them down

[@PaladinZeo]

You just hit the nail on the head, Dan! Doom Tower + Fright Zone + Slime Pit = TAKE MY 300 DOLLARS! Please make one of the unlock tiers be a translucent green He-Man with accessories the same color to match! And please let the skull and claw on the slime pit glow in the dark!

[@Sneltje]

Nah 300 still too much, nostalgic is Frightzone in Retail for 80, slime pit is 40, have no nostalgic feel for the Tower at all. Do that separately.

[@SunnyDiegoProduction]

People crying about price, if they combine all those play sets into one it’s definitely not gonna be $300 hahaha it’ll be $650!!! Good luck with that, it’s not Eternia! They screwed us with Eternia, it’s not gonna happen again that’s for sure.

[@CringerKitty]

I think you really covered it all in this video. Thanks for hitting all of the major points on why we arrived at this place with the SL crowdfund. Personally, I voted for the Snake Lair because it was "nostalgia adjacent", meaning that while it was not something we ever had as kids, I could totally see the original design being something that fit it with the vintage MOTU toyline, similar to that Treehouse playhouse that never got produced. And as long as it was a clamshell style playset, it would be ok if it was a bit taller or wider than Castle Grayskull and Snake Mountain. At the end of the day, Origins is about nostalgia for most of us and, Mattel would be wise to remember that. I'm all for branching off into sub-lines, but please go back to giving us figures/vehicles/playsets from the original line, and items that would enhance them, like the original SL playset design, and a combined Fright Zone/Doom Tower/Slime Pit, as Dan mentioned in the video. Thank you!

[@saturdaymorningfan3123]

Nostalgia is why I voted FOR it. It looked like an 80s greyskull like playset complete with handle I could buy as a kid in the 80s and could add it to my 80s toys. The one shown was nothing like that and it was a huge letdown.

[@sunnyshine2215]

Yes, the Snake Lair being a new concept needs that nostalgic pull to make it look like it’s always been part of the vintage canon. The playset shown at SDCC didn’t have much of it and imo had more of 200X/ flat modern design rather than the charming details of the vintage ones.

[@moondark1031]

It's NOT like the artwork, and THAT makes it too big. There is no reason it cant be a $150-200 crowd fund and be more in line with origins Grayskull and Snake Mountain. Include the rattletrap and more tertiary items , better deco, included figures etc. Mattel has already done lower priced crowd funds.

[@javi_gn]

The concept art is not very goodit looks too much like grayskull in my opinion (an 80 to 100 dlls item)

[@robertdickson9319]

Part of the reason the prototype is "around" $300 is because of the rattletrap. I say they start the re-work by ditching that - sell it separately or not at all. Then shrink the size.

[@Superdimensional]

People are running out of room and running out of steam…. Price it realistically and make it so I don’t have to feel like I’m hitting the lottery to buy it!

[@jzachery]

I think the way it won the vote was that we were asked to vote for our top 2! So I think it was a second choice for many and that pushed it into getting the most votes overall.

[@pablotoysCR]

You didn't indicate the result that we want it to be available for normal sale not by MattelCreations, for example Two Bad was disastrous to get it for many.

[@GameTime-yj6qv]

I missed out on Two Bad, and so did a lot of people

[@MrHomeArcade]

I had posted a playset of both the fright zone and slime pit combined a few days ago, lol.

[@pseudonoidJR]

As a kid, i thought the Fright Zone was kinda lame. It had no features or decals on the opposite side. That thing you got connecting the Slime Pit together w/ it really fleshes the whole thing out, complete style imo 🍻

[@masonj4779]

Good for you arcade. Here’s a cookie.

[@MrHomeArcade]

@masonj4779 thanks smart a$$ lol. You're too kind lol

[@Victorhappy123]

To be fair the fright zone you have is mint,really enjoy the vid 👍

[@MrHomeArcade]

@Victorhappy123 thanks man!

[@mechamanblade8465]

The best way that Mattel can handle this is by releasing the Snake Lair playset fans voted on and release it at retail for $80. Offer the snake vehicle as a separate add-on like the Talon Fighter. Lastly, I would have to agree that the crowdfund project should be a combination Fright Zone/ Doom Tower/ and Slime Pit. To me, that is a more worthy $300 playset.

[@enyawd1977]

Origins is a 100% nostalgie driven line. That's what the fans want...to finish their vintage collections. I want the Fright Zone more than anything, and more vintage vehicles. Battle Ram, Dragon Walker, Spydor, etc.

[@trollpaintingminis4496]

If mattel did the concept art grayskull sized snake lair and then rattle trap with a separate perch that can snap on similar to point dread and it and coil around it that would be worthy of a $200ish crowdfund and i think people would love it.

[@luizmoura3343]

I can’t believe that Doom Tower, Filmation fright zone lost the crowdfunding!!!

[@Captain-Palsy]

For me the Attack Trac as well

[@ChunkyLover53]

Doom Tower and Frightzone got my votes.

[@neilcallaghan9697]

Good evening Dan have been watching a lot of your content recently and learning loads more about a toy line I've loved since I was a kid. So thank you, keep up the good work, love it I have to say I agree with a lot of things you say in the video, the main one being 'has crowd funded lines ran their course". In my opinion yes. The largest part of my vast collection is Star Wars. I used to be a completist and complete every range and line and buy everything that was released without question. Hasbro then started releasing recarded and repainted stuff which drove me to stop completing lines as it was getting silly, costly and space restrictive. Back to crowd funding. My big regret was not buying the haslab sail barge. Then I did buy the Razor Crest. However having already being turned off being a completist it now made it easier for me to bypass the crowd funding stuff. The items are to big, they are definitely to expensive, when you have a vast collection and are a mib/moc collector your space is running out. In many cases you would then like to buy two one to keep in box or on card and another to open, esp on crowd funding lines where if you are purchasing it is clearly something very special to you. Crowd funding doesn't allow this with the price point and the size of the items it's made it very easy to avoid buying even if I would like the item in my collection Having gotten really into masters of the universe lately your videos have allowed me to keep up to date better with what's going on. Wish I'd known eternia had been available but I didn't, but even if I did would I have the space and as I wouldn't open it there would have been little point buying it anyways Back to the snake layer. Would I like one, yea possibly. Would I want that one? No. Don't like the look of it, it looks like a pirate ship, it's far to big and the price well just no, for an item to be kept in a box. Crowd funding should be done away with and the products made as products within the ranges which are size according and a lot more affordable for collectors especially in this day and age. Wow what a long answer 🙈 don't normally comment on you tube. In fact this is my first ever but agreed with a lot of what you were saying not only as a MOTU collector but also a collector of most other toy lines. It's about time companies listened to the collectors. I know hasbro aren't good at it so I hope Mattel do a better job of this. Keep up the great work Dan and may the power of grayskull be with you 😊

[@brianoneil3362]

Cool idea for a snake men lair would be to tweak the original jungle playset that became snake mountain. After all skeletor took it from them so it would be neat to see how it looked before skeletor took over

[@ObsessiveGeek]

Doom Zone Pit sounds epic. Combination of sets to make something "new" that still has the nostalgia value is the right approach.

[@Aearonjer]

Fright Zone was the pick for me.

[@craigcarroll3303]

You're right Dan. We've just created the most sought after prototype playset in the history of playsets. Lol.

[@cyberius7042]

I voted "No" in your polls because I'm already at the point of crowdfunds - no matter how appealing to me - are too big and too expensive. I REALLY wanted to back the Eternia playset, but that was also too big and expensive for me. I've been a die-hard MOTU fan since I was 3, but toy collecting is becoming a hobby for wealthier people than me.

[@GreyHulk2156]

That is essentially the whole thing for me. We wanted the concept art. A playset that was comparable to the Castle Grayskull and Snake Mountain Origins playsets. Something you could display (or play with) alongside the others, and wouldn't look out-of-place.

[@justicierodelaliga]

I´m not a MOTU fan or collector. That being said I agree with everything that´s being said here: 1. They started bad by changing the concept art entirely. ...and yes, the original design looked better and smaller. 2. The size. ...everything regarding the size (too big/where to put it) and price. I do think that since ETERNIA sold Mattel thought people would pay anything for another playset and they made it bigger to justify that cost. If they stayed true to the concept art they would have sold it.

[@jamesbirch9614]

I’m a casual MOTU collector (which is consistent with my childhood, as other lines were more important to me) - when I saw this on your SDCC posts, I thought it was fantastic. I hadn’t seen the original art until this video you just posted. I still think it looks fantastic. While nostalgia is certainly a big factor, I appreciate the creativity and “fun factor” that I feel this featured in spades. Obviously, I’m in the minority… but again, as a casual collector, I can’t be too upset either way…

[@jamievaughn1485]

I’m a Transformer guy but kudos to Mattel for at least trying to listen to fans. I think a smaller and cheaper set would do much better by the way.

[@daviddalrymple2284]

Yeah. The success of Victory Saber and Deathsaurus shows that crowdfunding toys don't have to be items that are seen as too physically large for mass retail. They could also be moderately-sized items that are too obscure/niche for mass retail.

[@roborem9719]

It would be nice if the play-set could fit both scales of Mattel style figure. Orgins/Masterverse-Classics. I purchased the Eternia play set because it works with my Classics figures. Mattel can do this and not have to make an apartment sized play set . The set does not have to be giant to be good . Collectors are literally running out of space. Build the play set taller not wider . Please stick with the original design. Make it look like a play set we played with on brown carpet and smoke filled living rooms when we were kids . The snake Lair should be dark , dingy and slightly creepy. (Great job with the Iron Maiden) It currently looks like a colorful amusement park ride. Make it foldable so it can save room when displayed and make it open so our kids can still play with it . The original concept was awesome. Thanks Mattel for keeping an open mind and listening to your fans .

[@roonis418]

I think people what it as they showed in the art work and for a good price. Like $79 just like castle grayskull and snake mountain. It shouldn't be a massive thing that you can't fit in your collection. I would have liked the Attack track so I could have used it for the turtle van.

[@BiggSheppTheManMythAndLegend]

I agree. No TOY PLAYSET should be over $100! It's a TOY PLAYSET for crying out loud! Corporate greed ruins everything, especially the toy market. If it's not corporate execs, it's scalpers ruining the fun. Smh.

[@Electiger-y5k]

@@BiggSheppTheManMythAndLegendtoys r expensive single berry. Some Lego are 500

[@namehereandthere]

Exactly. And if they want to crowdfund and add tiers for small items, figures, etc, they can have their cake and eat it too. They could even let people just buy the tier items during the preorder window, if they get enough preorders. So everyone wins.

[@happybuttersblast8334]

it wouldnt be worth it for Mattel to do a crowdfund for an 80 to even 150$ item. they would have been able to do it at retail but after stores took a loss on Castle Grayskull and Snake mountain they aint ordering a snake lair to take another loss.

[@roonis418]

@@happybuttersblast8334 I think they could have done one for 150 at the lowest. A 300 item is way to much for a play set that never excited before. Maybe a vehicle with moving parts would have been closer to that price point. Or they could have made a cheaper playset that shares parts to make another playset down the road so some of the work and money is already there.

[@godisdeaddealwithit]

First off amazing video on the Snake Lair, and brings up a ton of great points. I was caught off guard by the polls especially when this was a majority of the fan vote. Me personally I think where this fell off the rails was the concept art gave people that nostalgia feel, but something new in the line. What they gave us was a bit to far from that. Value wise we didn't get to see what the stretch goals were in this. It sounded like the Rattle trap and that new Lady Slither were included right off the bat. Which would be roughly $60-80 in value. Greyskull/Snake Mountain were around that $80. Granted this would have a bit more to it so maybe around that $130-150. Eternia had 2 unlocks so an addtional $40 value give or take. Based on that a rough value of $230-270. Could be off the rails with my train of thought on that. One thing I do know the idea you have of the Doom Tower, Fright Zone, and Slime Pit would be an amazing large set they should do in the future.

[@TheGreatDayne1983]

We voted on a design and that design is what we want. I’m sorry they tried to bloat the price by bloating the playset but we didn’t want a Eternia sized set.

[@johnalbertson221]

I would rather have the Cartoon style Fright Zone . But regardless of my opinion. A lair should Not be bigger than a mountain ! And Yes Mattel, we still want a origins cartoon Queen Marlena !!

[@Playitstraight44]

You can call me an outlier because He-Man came along when I was graduating high school and heading into college. So I kind of represent your big brother's toys like Big Jim, Evel Knievel, and Mego. And of course GI Joe for me was 12 inches not 3 3/4. So what got me into this? The Origins line. Why? Because it addressed something I never liked about the original releases - limited articulation. My generation had that, the 80's kids did not. So it hit a nerve with me that completely spoke to my era while serving yours. But now understanding its mission statement was to recreate an entire toy line of figures, playsets, and vehicles from that era with improvements that would interest my generation instantly hooked me. So THAT is why I collect Origins. I even bought the Eternia playset. The coolest thing I've ever seen. Pushes all the right buttons from a long gone era. So what does this have to do with the Snake Lair? Well, even a different set of eyes like mine looked at that and saw that it was off from the style sensibilities of the vintage playsets. Sure it has similar play features, but the colors were too garish, which gave it a preschool toy feel to it. Probably why some said it belonged with Imaginex. Too harsh? Maybe, but I completely agree with the intention of that remark. The playset should have a shared surface quality like the concept art and honestly it needs to lose the all brown color scheme on the rocks and the cartoon green color on the giant snake head. Its too much. Personally I think fans should have voted on the vintage playsets, because that's how I'm measuring it. I have the book documenting what came before, so that is pretty much my Bible if you will for what to get and what to avoid. Since the Snake Men play a somewhat limited role in that, I would still be up for a Snake lair, but it really needs to read more vintage in design and scale to sell me. I can invest in a 'what-if' product, but it still needs to fit in with the others and not compete with Eternia on any level. That's a one off for everyone I would think. Eternia was the ultimate grail. Nothing new should challenge that suggestion because it works against the instincts of fans, which your survey illustrated. Great video!

[@winterthorn1]

I will break this down into two categories: my collection/purchase habits and my aesthetic opinion: Collecting: I have limited funds and limited space, so I try to stay very focused in my collection. MOTU is my top IP, but I never bought into Origins, not because I didn’t like it, but just because my small budget couldn’t accommodate it. As a result, I never intended to buy Eternia or the Snake Lair. Dan talks about budget and space in the video, and the fact is you can’t have everything you want. I still back crowd funds, so I’m not against that business model. (I actually think that a lot of the complaints about crowdfunding is as a result of people not understanding how the business model works.) But I have to make choices based on money and display space. The Lair: I actually really like what they showed at SDCC with the exception of the vehicle attached to the set. The vehicle is the most exciting part to me because of its connection to MOTU history, and I hope it still gets released somehow, but I think it looks out of place the way it was attached. I hear people’s complaints that it doesn’t look like the concept art, but like Dan said, my attitude is that concept art is just a concept and tons of changes get made in development. I also think, if you remove the vehicle and close the set, it’s not as different as people think. If they added the handle on top, I think it would read as the Snake Lair. Like Dan, I am excited about them doing something new, and there are connections back to Classics, so it’s not out of nowhere. It’s still part of the lore and history. And Dan, I also was already thinking that they created the new problem of those people who did love this design now feeling cheated out of getting this, and down the line, this would come back as its own mythical playset that people want.

[@jasetraber]

I will back it if they present a concept art accurate piece at a reasonable price. Also, I think that MOTU Origins collectors have Snake-Men fatigue and now they’ve announced that the Turtles of Grayskull line is going Snake as well.

[@benwestover2430]

I think if the front facing snake face had matched the Snakemen logo like the art, and the colors had been dulled down, the response would have been much different. The snake head shown and bright colors pushed it right into Fisher Price aesthetic. Those aren’t the only issues, but I feel like they’re glaring and the biggest ones that smack you in the face right away.

[@SnakElkProductions]

Honestly, I wish they'd stop with the crowdfund concept. They drop these toys and say "You have 2-3 months to decide if you want to pay for this" when I need more time to sort out my budget. $300 isn't pocket change, and I can't just throw that kind of money around without time to make sure I have the funds to cover it

[@RalphRiggin]

A large percentage of people were looking for nostalgia in the artwork design in the packaging of other figures. I personally did not like to snake lair it was too busy. Also the snake face in front of the castle add way too many teeth. It's a snake with four fangs, two on the top and two on the bottom. Also that stupid snake that wrapped around the tower didn't need to be there. I liked the gun in the concept art location and the torture rack on top of the tower. It would be cool if they were removable and they could be switched. The iron maiden was cool, rattle trap was cool and the inside had nice features. The fright zone, slime pit and doom tower would be awesome but I figure that would be crowdfund next year since they're doing POP and The horde. My final thought if you're going to do a crowdfund, do a filmation Castle Grayskull and Snake Mountain.

[@darrensoda]

I totally agree that as a crowdfund, it will not be the same size and price point as Castle Grayskull and Snake Mountain. I guess for me personally, I’d be happy if they made it a bit smaller, made it look a little more similar to the concept art, and I’m fine paying between $200-$300 for it. Space would be an issues for me. After buying Eternia I don’t know where I’d put a playset that is almost as big as Eternia. So that’s why I say, a little bit smaller (still bigger than Castle Grayskull). And also a little closer to the concept art that people voted for.

[@Electiger-y5k]

It’s half the size of Eternia . It has no depth

[@happybuttersblast8334]

I completely agree

[@heathbutler4410]

Tbh i wouldn't touch a fright zone, i was never a fan, but give me a clamshell snake lair the size of snake mountain, that looks like the concept art+the iron maiden im definitely in.

[@Gangstor]

Im tellin' ya, "Snakemen Fatigue" is a real thing, and that's played into this. Personally im itching to start bangin' for The Horde right abouts now, but Mattel dont wanna play ball.

[@SecretOfMonkeyIsland784]

Agree, Mattel has been pushing the SnakeMen faction beyond its welcome

[@Gangstor]

@@SecretOfMonkeyIsland784 Fangor, Rattle-Hood, Gorgon, Naga, Terroar, Lord Gr'Asp, Lady Slither, Reptilax, The Snake Lair, The Rattle Trap...🤦‍♂️ like every time I turn around there's just more and more snakes. 🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍 It's like someone at Mattel ordered 'Snake Surprise', sliced it open and now they just endlessly spewing out the stomach all over the dinner table 🤢

[@SecretOfMonkeyIsland784]

@@Gangstor Agree, this is why so many think the Snake Lair win in the fan vote just fitted their agenda a little too well.

[@sixfootse7en248]

Hey Mattel - just make it look like the concept art and the art on the back of Fang-Or’s card, and it will get funded, not only from MOTU fans, but some GI Joe collectors as well.

[@paluxyl.8682]

I got a compromise, remove the orange snake vehicle and reduce the the price to $200. When it comes to the Fright Zone .... it must be a retail playset. The Horde Tower on the other hand could (or should) be a crowdfound thing.

[@LordSlithor]

Pretty much agree with you on the Rattletrap. Though I have a feeling that might have been a stretch goal for the crowdfund along with the skeleton Lady Slither figure. It's a nice added value feature, but I guess I wouldn't mind if it was gone. Maybe Mattel could offer it on Creations later on down the line as an add-on much like Point Dread and the Talon Fighter were for Castle Grayskull.

[@dukesir1865]

Man I really like this video. It's fun when KZbinrs interact with their fans like this.

[@StarmaxwatchStarmax-mu6zq]

crowdfund between 100 to 200 exclude shipping seems reasonable.

[@TheLivingWheel]

I voted for the Snake Lair because I love the concept art and I'm open to new things. That art (and the way it's featured in the Origins comics) looks like something we never got in the 80's. I expected it to be Castle Grayskull or slightly smaller in size. I totally agree with you Dan, it didn't even occur to me that as a crowdfund it would mean something very large. Size is a massive issue for me. If whatever comes needs to be BIG, I agree, a HORDE Doom Tower, Fright Zone and Slime Pit mash up - would be pretty epic and 100% worth $300 and something that might tempt me. The Snakes already look good around Snake Mountain & Viper Tower. Nostalgia and the combination of a couple playlets for the Horde would visually add something to our existing play sets that is different. That said, I actually love how Origins Eternia is the center piece to my collection with Grayskull and Snake Mountain flanking each side. Honestly, I wouldn't want anything else to over shadow it. So I'm leaning more towards not wanting anything else that is bigger than Castle Grayskull. Great discussion! At this point, I'm hoping the Snake Lair comes at slightly smaller than Grayskull size, is less money and looks like the concept art.

[@Cage820]

I was always on the fence with this from the start. I actually voted for the Fright Zone and was really bummed it didn’t win. I wanted an Origins version of my vintage playset

[@SecretOfMonkeyIsland784]

The vote was rigged, lots mentioned post results that they didnt vote for it and were suprised it had won. Mattel had an agenda as they have been pushing the SnakeMen faction hard for a long time.

[@omshiva3599]

Great analysis of the data you collected. I agree that nostalgia is a powerful driving force in consumer behavior. The interesting thing about the Snake Lair is that it has design elements that would work nicely in the 200x aesthetic, so I can see this possibly being outsourced to Mondo to use with their upcoming 1/12 MOTU line as long as it is scaled up for their action figures. I can also see it as a playset for the New Eternia Masterverse line of action figures. New Eternia tweaks the nostalgia factor while still offering fans something new. Based on that buying habit, this Snake Lair would look good if it were made as a Masterverse playset. It would need to be very large, and have more realistic sculpting and paint applications, but I feel a crowdfund in that direction may work. It would also be a good time to get a new animated He-Man series which features the Snake Men and this lair so people can appreciate how it fits into the MOTU lore. Another way for Mattel to think about their crowdfunding would be to give us massive beasts and creatures with the Origins branding, yet allowing it to cross pollinate with the Masterverse or Classics lines. If we look at Origins Cringer, that figure is probably very popular because it is boxed for the Origins fan, yet it works with fans of the animated series and it plays well with the alternate MOTU lines. Even if I'm not a collector of the Origins line, I would most likely support a crowdfunded version of Granamyr for that line, knowing that it will work well with earlier lines, and have the most accurate Filmation aesthetic, and be the most articulate iteration of that figure. I can also see this work with Procrustus, Swiftwind, Skytree, etc.

[@TroyProsser]

They are suffocating the line with Snake themed stuff and they absolutely have to be aware that their target audience has a HUGE nostalgia for the vintage line. There also seemed to be people finding ways to vote multiple times (plus the absolute flood of Snakemen that were clearly already in the pipeline long before the crowd vote) which makes the Snake Lair results seem like they weren’t truly legitimate anyway.

[@FortressofFanitutde]

I doubt those results were legitimate. Mattel is, for some reason, obsessed with The Snake Men. That's fine, but as you point out, fans want the vintage line to be finished.

[@arestheconqueror]

Thanks for making the pools and the explaining video Dan. Here are my 2 cents on this, I really hope that if someone from Mattel is reading, I want to be as positive as I can. Ok. I'm not going to talk about design because all is said and I agree👍also the size is not what we expected, a Lair shouldn't be bigger than a Mountain...or a Castle. Price is key: I speak for myself, but I know there are lots of fans here in SPAIN that feel the same (also other Europeans can feel the same). I can not afford a crowdfund with such base price like this if for "us overseas" collectors the final price is almost double!! It happened with Eternia. I was dying to have it, but if for USA buyers was "expensive" for us was "prohibitive" (to bring Eternia to Spain was around 1000 euro, yes 1K no ceros misspelled) those who can...brave! I have to pay rent, bills and eat. It's not that I don't want to support those kind of product, it's I just can't. Snake Lair around 300...for us how much, 650?? Please consider this. Price is a point. Please make it easy for overseas. By the way...are these toys or what? How can a toy be so expensive? Thank you! Regards from Spain.😉

[@shelvedscenes]

The big companies running these crowdfunded projects should take note from Jazzinc, where Joost continuously shows progress and pivots the designs based on "backer" feedback. Mattel, why show a very different concept picture and then make this whole toy behind closed doors with a tada moment? You could have gotten this feedback much earlier (and less expensively).

[@ReillyBrownArt]

I think they've got to do a Snake Lair, since that's what won the initial survey. If they're making changes, I think that it would be smart to make it more similar to the style of play set of Castle Grayskull and Snake Mountain. That's what the original art looked like, and I think being in that style, it sort of fits the established MotU formula, so there might be a bit more of a connection for fans to hold onto. It would be more a part of a set. Also, for whatever it's worth, the Snake Lair was the option on the survey that my son was most excited about-- the under 10 crowd probably wasn't well represented in your social media polls, Dan!

[@KJ-tz7vc]

Despite the poll, people want the Fright Zone first.😊

[@spargotee]

Collectors always want the rarely attainable mix of cheap, plentiful and top quality. I liked the Snake Lair concept at SDCC. I would have paid $300 for what I saw.

[@craigcarroll3303]

I thought it looked pretty cool. Still expensive though.

[@ryancole29]

I'd be curious how many people who voted for Snake Lair and now vote no for buying it.

[@716straightedge]

I haven’t been all in on this line because I collect mostly comics these days so Idk if I was gonna buy a bigger crowd fund item but when it was revealed using your videos, I thought it was an awesome set, it never occurred to me that it didn’t match the art until I saw the fans on social media wishing it looked more like the art, either way I think the reveal and the old art are both awesome, also for play purposes the con reveal looks like it would have more stuff to do which is a plus

[@vadoraid2517]

I think it’s amazing but it overwhelmed me, expecting a small scale playset. especially with my shelves busting at the seams

[@yackkoandwackko]

You nailed it! I think an awesome Freight Zone / Doom Tower / Slime Pit playset is what they should do! I'd definitely make room for that!

[@davidgonsalves544]

They should have made the big dinosaur to go with Eternia

[@greenhyenas]

Let's not forget Mattel did a great job. Even though it's not what many of us were willing to pay for, they had to balance with limited resources and competing priorities, and there are things about the revealed design people do like. Most of us know that concept art is rarely ever the final result and I hope the negative response from this does not change the very fun potential product teases in the box art; and even more so does not restrict the artists that work on them. The accompanied art is very much part of the appeal; it would be terrible if packaging went the way of other toy IP's, which only have a name change and photo cross sells. Keep up the good work MOTU creators

[@Pandaskullahh]

Bruh its unfortunate that they made it too big. we want it the size of grayskull, not this massive thing

[@Rob-z7k]

I bet its going to be $600+

[@Electiger-y5k]

Can we stop using the b word . Has to be the most annoying word ever created

[@happybuttersblast8334]

would you pay 200$ for something the size of grayskull? because they arent going to crowdfund an item for a lower amount of $$ it wouldnt be worth it for them

[@Pandaskullahh]

@@Electiger-y5k ok

[@Nightshade794]

Well crowdfunding was originally for figures and sets that would be hard to sell in stores. For some reason companies think this means bigger and bigger items. As for the no nostalgia and not art accurate, I feel that goes hand in hand. We were expecting one thing only for Mattel to show something else entirely. As for price mattel could make it modular so its not as expensive or too big for fans, if they removed the rattletrap and the building it sits on, that could make it cheaper and more in size with what some are looking for. While also making it possible ti buy that part of thw olayset and vehicle later down the road at a cheaper price. And yes nostalgia plays a big part in this line. Like Eternia playset, I neverr knew about it as a kid and only heard about it later in life after I graduated and got a job. I felt no connection or desire for it.

[@J.Valentine1031]

Some feel that fan vote was rigged but I agree with the reason why folks aren't buying or interested in the set. No nostalgia or emotional connection to it. It seems Mattel is dead set on pushing Snake Men down our throats.

[@Electiger-y5k]

People voted it for it . People pushed snake down their throats

[@happybuttersblast8334]

oh no , I can completely understanding the sketch art snake lair winning even over the fright zone and attack track as so many people were saying they can do fright zone at retail price and a vintage style snake lair for all the snake men would be cool. If we knew they were going to expand upon things and make it larger, I think the fright zone would have won as it would probably have been the vintage fright zone just being 1/5th of the final product so that plus expanded outwards with stuff, that would be awesome, they should just do that now instead

[@landoncisneros4248]

I think if they had made it similar in size and shape to Castle Grayskull and Snake Mountain THAT would have satiated the nostalgia. It would have felt right at home. Hell, make the Snake Lair attach them all and it’s a banger!!

[@brent2073]

Crowdfunding is just another way for companies to minimize accountability while maximizing profits. We should boycott it until it ends.

[@happybuttersblast8334]

the only way they maximize profits is if it doesnt hit all its tiers as mattel and hasbro bake the tiers into the base price. I dont think you understand how much it costs to manufacture large items and how the lower the run the more manufactures charge these companies to make them. They arent gouging the fans and being like sweet we can make these regular items for triple the profits of our main lines, thats just not what they are doing. The motu team with Mattel and the brands teams with hasbro had to work hard and convince their companies to do these large products because the brass wasnt wanting to take risks to make these regularly

[@Mighty-VizioN]

And the best part about it is that nobody asked for this playset. They put it in our face and asked us if we wanted it. If they would have never shown it to us nobody would have ever said anything about it.

[@happybuttersblast8334]

@@Mighty-VizioN No one asked for any toys made in the 80's, they just created it and sold it. are we basically saying we're too old for new toys?

[@Arufonsa1]

You aren’t wrong but they aren’t going to make these things otherwise. They don’t care if these succeed or fail so it’s just biting your nose to spite your face.

[@FFFFPPPP]

Dont be ridiculous. Do you even know what youre paying for? The $300 isnt just for the retail cost of the item. What youre really paying for is the cost of the item on top of a percentage of what is needed to produce the item, the packaging and shipping other misc expenses. Large items like this are probably a million dollars or more just to create the steel tool that probably weighs a literal ton or more.

[@daximil]

My own two cents, which I hope Mattel will read: On Nostalgia and Concept Art - Just like what many people have said, the concept design was nostalgic, even though it was a new idea. I looked like it would live right next to Grayskull and Snake Mountain, which is why I voted for it. On Size - I have an Eternia Playset and a Skystriker sitting in a box, waiting for me to get a bigger house, so I can unbox them. While space alone will not keep me from buying, it's definitely a major factor. On Price - I currently have a better job, with more pay, than I had when I voted. Yet, because of inflation, it feels like I'm making less. I have to live first. I can't afford anything more than a couple of hundred dollars. Also, as mentioned, I will need a bigger house in order to display things I already have, which is a bigger expense, which means I have less to spend. Now, I will say that I'm in the minority as far as new things go. I really like new things, and nostalgia is not the big pusher for me. I'm just a sucker for cool miniature stuff. But once again, the concept art scratched the itch for both something new AND something nostalgic.

[@HyperdellicDude]

I don’t want a crowdfunded Fright Zone at a $300 price point. I want an update of the original that’s accessible to everyone. This crowdfunding nonsense makes me want to quit collecting all together. They’re always a cash grab and make collecting a much more “rich kid” kinda hobby. I think they forget what kept the lines alive all this time. It wasn’t ‘whales’… it was all of us average collectors.

[@Electiger-y5k]

Ok stop collecting then

[@Dickie2shoes]

Yep nostalgia is a very powerful drug, Mattel are sitting on the Dino Riders licence and doing nothing with it, they could make bank with a Dino riders reboot.

[@THX1968]

Also worth mentioning, the MOTU origins line is expressly built on nostalgia with the intent to create new versions of all the classic figures AND playsets and vehicles. New stuff is fine and dandy, but it has to FEEL right. When it does not feel right, attention turns to something that does feel right, like the Fright Zone, which would have been a slam dunk.

[@happybuttersblast8334]

if they had said this was 200X snake lair, I think people would have been more like yeah, I can see that. They branded this wrong lol

[@WedeSkates707]

This should have the same aesthetics’s of the Castle Grayskull and Snake Mountain. It should be simple. There’s too much going on. I’m glad they’re redoing it. 🍻

[@Mighty-VizioN]

When you think about it we don't even need large playsets. Cardboard cutouts in shelf liners should be enough. We are collectors that put our stuff on the shelf, and we very rarely walk around the shelf because the shelf is up against the wall. We only see one side of a playset. It's not sitting on the living room floor and we're standing around it playing with our toys. A great example is the turtle lair. They realize you don't need to see the other side. So they made a shoebox. Extreme pop-up dioramas are probably your best bet.

[@brianoneil3362]

They should just make cardboard backdrops in a pack. I’d buy them. Or the stands they did for classics.

[@RetroActionUK]

Really surprised as well that the biggest reason for not buying the Snake Lair is that it has no nostalgic connection but it makes sense now when you compare it to Eternia which is a legendary playset everyone wants and this is not. If this is the case though, how did the Snake Lair win in the first place?! The fact that it did is really interesting, it’s almost as if everyone changed their mind or not everyone that did vote for it have voted in these polls? I totally agree that a larger playset should’ve been the expectation given it’s a crowdfund, I haven’t heard anyone else bring this up but it’s a great point. I wish they had retained the original design as it had a more visible original Snakemen logo at the front and it just feels more MOTU than the playset shown at SDCC. It looks like it really could fit in with the rest of the playsets and even has the same clamshell look.

[@reyhernandez8739]

I think the snake lair won because it was a lot of people’s second option, which is why I think they should’ve had a second vote for the two options that got the majority of the votes.

[@RetroActionUK]

That makes sense.

[@FNHot]

I think there is an obvious conclusion here about the Snake Lair winning the fan vote: IT DIDNT. Mattel always intended to make the Snake Lair because of their HARD push for the Snakemen into Origins, and they pretended a fan vote picked the Snake Lair as a means to quiet us when they made it. For those of us that raised a stink, they could just say "Sorry, fans voted!" all with the assumption that the fans will buy anything they make and put a MOTU sticker on. They just learned, we wont. Clearly the Fright Zone / Slime Pit is what is wanted most.

[@JamesRPetix]

I love the idea of a giant Horde playset as long as it comes with the Filmmation tower!

[@MOTUprints]

its really simple without going into a long drawn out post. 2 problems • how it looks ( make it just like the 2 different artworks we've seen and was the basis for the vote) • the size ( most expect a grayskull size and price point) The Eternia's choice vote makes things confusing, when comparing it to your "no nostalgia" poll vote results, we really need to scrap the snake lair and go with Fright Zone or Attak Trak

[@rickytoddbotelho9555]

The greed of these companies is outrageous! It makes me feel like I'm being sold a lemon when I wanted strawberries 😂❤😊

[@Jarjarbinksreallife]

I firmly believed the vote was rigged, and these vote results only cement that opinion. I never voted for it. Don't want it. Want the horde.

[@Rocknrollrocker]

The other huge issue with the concept art is that they knew what we would assume based on its similarity size wise to previous sets.

[@MrHomeArcade]

I want that prototype snake lair playset since it's no longer the plan by Mattel 😅

[@littlemoffrey9929]

I actually liked the idea for the play set it is new

[@robertcarnline4473]

I don't think Snake Lair won the vote. Think about it, way back last year, Mattel was introducing and pushing Snake Men, way more than the Horde. Look at the Lady Slither figure and the Snake Men three pack. Even Turtles repackage revealed has Snake Men look. Mattel decided on itself to do Snake Lair.

[@PabEsco77]

I'm not a conspiracy guy but I too question if it actually won

[@Leatherhead4Hire]

I HIGHLY AGREE with Dan and many others about a crowdfund consisting of the classic Fright Zone and Slime Pit playsets, along with an Filmation Fright Zone. No matter what Mattel decides we MUST get the two Horde playsets in the Origins line!

[@Hilltopperpete]

I’m not a Motu fan, but I would have bought a snake lair in the style of the OG playsets for $150 if it came with some cool looking snakey figures. I’m excited for the Turtles of Grayskull snake Shredder, that looks insane.

[@go-toolzreviews]

The reality is that the fan vote wasn't counted. Mattel simply is trying to push those snake lair to tie into the new turtle of grayskull snake themed figures.

[@rowntreeplayz]

I remember before this was even a concept, making a sketch of a snake men playset but I made the big gimmick being water and the playset had suction cups so you can attach it to the bath tub wall and it had a pulley system to bring up motu figures. Personally I would buy the snake men playset if it looked more like the concept, and if it was something that I could see in stores for a reasonable price.