The Myths and Religion of Gobekli Tepe

[@Crecganford]

Let me know if you your thoughts on what the carvings mean...

[@juliahenriques210]

It does look like a representation of pivotal moments of strenght or courage. Surviving being set up by two large felines is no trivial story to tell, and can very well go into legend or myth. Just like bullfighting (which does look a lot like what is depicted there). But these are just wild guesses without access to the whole iconography of the site (or similar sites for that matter). It would be an even more astounding story if they were depicting proto-domestication attempts, humans befriending (rather than just hunting or performing rituals with) dangerous animals so as not to be hunted or attacked by them. It would be interesting to know if (and how) dogs and wolves are depicted there.

[@kariannecrysler640]

It’s tough. Many of the carved stones are reused randomly throughout the different sites, as parts of the building structure paying no heed to the carvings. But I agree that there seems to be a kinship with some animals & a dominance with others. I honestly have spent more time looking at the water management & grinding stones, than the carvings so far. And one of the oldest sites, a cave with burials, they were making bead’s! Lot’s of beads lol. The domestic/residential buildings are also surrounding the larger enclosures and we don’t have full understandings for potential class separation & perhaps we won’t find any either. I really like your assessments. They seem spot on given the current context. Thank you Jon

[@GizzyDillespee]

Today, the people would be called "furries"... before the party, the bears go meet up over by the bear carvings, leopards by the leopard pillars, and so on. Then they'd go out "hunting", mating and so on. IDKY all those different animal carvings were there. Some of the carvings remind me of mesopotanian motifs from apparently much later in time, but I don't know what the tepe culture looked like.

[@juliahenriques210]

@@kariannecrysler640 How interesting it is to have someone who's actually working with the site here to give their two cents. Thank you so much for sharing a bit of it with us. :)

[@elizabethdavis1696]

What are the years or time periods that you specialize in?

[@karenlankford8558]

The problem with interpreting any ancient carving or drawing is that we have lost the social context of the communication. We know that, as with words in modern languages, images could have different meanings in different context. A bull could just be a bull, or it could be a symbol for strength, or it could represent a constellation, or it could represent only the sound, or part of the sound for the word for bull, which in association with another symbol produced a name.

[@Crecganford]

We can see certain contexts, for example these images are not writing, and so would not be sounds, due to how they are arranged. But they maybe symbolic as opposed to narrative, although my experience and those of other academics believe it is narrative.

[@Gizziiusa]

Bullsh!t comes to mind, so did they use the poop emoji with it for clarification ?

[@9FisterSpit9]

The Wolf and Bull of Wall Street are perfect examples of this phenomena.

[@michaelmartinez5217]

Or ask the new generation that speaks in "emojis" to translate for us. I bet they could read Egyptian hyroglifs or get close with out the Rosetta Stone.. lol

[@9FisterSpit9]

@@michaelmartinez5217 I wish I had a cool rock...

[@kayt_quilts]

Dr. White, this was my favorite thing you’ve ever put out, and that’s setting an incredibly high bar. How incredible is this?! I have been having the great time taking the information from your videos and incorporating them into my homeschooling curriculum for my three little girls (8, 7, and 5). The bear cultures and rituals have, so far, been a huge hit with us!! I wish we could donate, but this has been a brutal year for us. But we wanted to say, keep up the amazing work, you are so very very appreciated!!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much.

[@kayt_quilts]

@@Crecganford Good Evening, Dr. White. I have been thinking about this video for, well, I guess twelve days now (Nerd alert!). And as I have been checking out the various paleoarchaeological headlines which have emerged in the last few weeks, I have come up with a few questions. I’m not sure the best way to articulate these things, so bear with me. Now, in your scenario, it’s a particularly favorable climactic situation that stimulates the proliferation of previously harder-to-find grasses in the region of Gobekli Tepe. The concentrated boon in plant food availability removed the necessity to keep moving with the megafauna prey species which had sustained their forefathers, and provided, rather, the incentive for the local clans to unite, build, gather and stockpile grain, and, eventually, to learn how to control the growth of the grasses themselves. I love this theory, I think it’s brilliant and explains so much! But, then I wonder how we can explain the development of similar horticultural mastery in places like the Amazon, which wouldn’t have experienced this kind of situation? In previous generations, we thought that the Amazon hadn’t hosted the kind of populous, urbanized, agricultural centers that were extent during the European and Near Eastern Bronze Ages. But since Lidar was introduced a few years ago, the game has been changing almost quarterly. The big takeaways, however, are that people were organizing and concentrating much earlier than previously believed, and these sites seem to suggest the same kind of social cohesion, organization, and sophistication that characterized the rise of the agrarian states of the Near Eastern theater. Why? My second question relates to the most recent revelations coming out of the Sayburç site. According to the Megalithomania episode that came out today (I think), the boar sculpture with the red ocher in its mouth is holding a skull. They noted similar imagery in First Nations cultures and the Vedic traditions, wherein the boar is depicted as a chaos creature, essentially. It removes the soul from the skull in Native American mythology, and it is the first living being to emerge from the primordial chaos ocean in the Vedas. Venomous snakes also seem to make frequent appearances in all three cultures, perhaps even playing similar cosmological roles and corresponding to the Milky Way. In fact, they have discovered that one of the structures resembles the inside of a snake’s head and the rest of the rooms are its body. The whole structure seems to be an abstract depiction of an indigenous viper that still lives in the region today. But perhaps the greatest surprise to me was the revelation that some of the rooms had been filled with water. There is speculation that the water was being used for its reflective properties, bringing the “cosmic snake,” of the Milky Way symbolically down to Earth and reflecting it back up again. The three archaeologists in the video all seem to agree that the site was most likely oracular in nature, since evidence has been found that indicates the use of these native vipers in ritual. I didn’t know if you had seen any of these recent developments, but if so, I wondered if these additional details have any impact on your interpretation of the possible narratives being depicted?

[@thearmchairjournalist566]

You are a great mum, I am in awe of your commitment to your kids education 👌

[@gaufrid1956]

An interesting video, Jon. As for "skull cults", I remember that in Catal Huyuk a few thousand years later, when people had built houses and were farmers, they buried the dead below where they slept, and set the skulls of the ancestors up in their houses. They plastered the skulls with ochre and recreated facial features such as the eyes. When you spoke about how as societies grew more complex, the shaman changed from male to female. This is seen in indigenous tribes in the Philippines, such as my wife's tribe, the Higaonon, in Bukidnon Mindanao. They practice agriculture, growing corn and vegetables, but still hunt and gather sometimes. The baylan (shaman) is almost always female. My wife's maternal grandmother was a baylan, and trained my wife as a baylan as well. The traditional beliefs of the Higaonon, and many other indigenous tribes, are a combination of animism and ancestor worship. In the case of the Higaonon, there is a chief "Diwata" (spirit) called Magbabaya, whose will is said to have created the world. All other diwata are known as "Migbaya", and control the various aspects of nature. There is also the "Tumanud" (guardian spirit), and "Abyan" (spirit guide, companion spirit). Many indigenous tribes have carved anthropomorphic figures, in Tagalog called "taotao" ("tao" means "person") which are set up in houses or "spirit houses" in a village. It's interesting too that among the more complex societies, such as the Tagalog kingdom of Luzon, and the Visayan kingdoms, there was a pantheon of anthropomorphic gods that were worshipped. Despite this, and hundreds of years of influence by Christianity and Islam, people still pay their respects to the spirits of nature. Passing a large rock or tree, especially a "balete" (large strangler fig tree), Filipinos will usually say "Tabi po" or "Tabi tabi apo". "Tabi" means something like "Side by side". Tagalog speakers add "po" as an honorific. "Apo" can mean "Ancestor, grandparent, or grandchild". In this case it refers to the elders. There is something in humans that stems from our deep past, and hopefully will remain.

[@gaufrid1956]

@ConontheBinarian I agree with you completely. Before clearing any land, the Higaonon people will conduct rituals asking for Magbabaya's blessing on the project. Magbabaya is believed to be in everything and everyone, to be everywhere, and to know everything. Unlike the Abrahamic God (YHWH/Allah), Magbabaya is neither distant nor judgemental. Similar to the fact that in the local languages, personal pronouns have no gender, Magbabaya encompasses both the masculine and the feminine.

[@Paolur]

Norwegian here, its so interesting how my people and yours on opposite sides of the earth still come to very similar beliefs in things like nature spirits inhabiting trees, rocks etc despite the abrahamic determination for a thousand years to exterminate it. We say the hidden people live everywhere in nature but specifically big rocks and barrows, but they can also be anywhere under the ground. I still can't bring myself to pour water on the ground without first speaking a warning to get out of the way like grandma taught me

[@Paolur]

@ConontheBinarian there is a stone in my hometown on the road into the mountains with a carved bowl in it called the wish stone, you can pour a libation into it and make a wish. Usually it would be the milk thats being transported home from the summer farm but whiskey would probably do the trick too

[@gaufrid1956]

@@Paolur Yes! It's also interesting that you mentioned that your grandma taught you. My wife, in her late fifties now, learned from her maternal grandmother to be a baylan, effectively a tribal shaman, healer, masseur, and in the past, midwife. Specially trained and initiated, she remains a baylan even though she is not living in a tribal village. I'm Australian by birth, with Anglo-Irish ancestors. It was easy for me to understand the things she told me, and what you mentioned, because my ancestors also held similar beliefs. I have experienced things here in our house in Mindanao Philippines that only strengthen my belief that there are spirits in all things. My wife says that I'm such a loveable guy that even those from the "outside world" (the "otherworld", "spirit dimension", which the Higaonon people call the "Banting") love me too. I feel really flattered! Our kitchen is inhabited by a female "tumanud" (guardian spirit), we believe.

[@robgau2501]

Your wife is a Baylan. Pretty cool.

[@carlosalbuquerque22]

Just to correct that Aboriginal Australian cultures do have gods/spirits. They are increasingly understood to have been agricultural prior to colonization

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

Glad you pointed this out. I was a bit disappointed to see there was no recognition of pre colonial agricultural techniques used by Aust aborigines. ✌️

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Isn't colonialism great /s Native Americans did the same, they literally created food forests that attracted wildlife to hunt as well And we are seeing the same kind of agricultural planning in South America too

[@mediakings9401]

Gods are not spirits

[@mediakings9401]

I don't agree. I'm convinced that God's taught humanity agricultural civilization. I'm open to evidence on the contrary in anyone here has some ❤

[@joemadda]

I recall from an Origin of Agriculture course I once had it was proposed that there was much developed agriculture in parts of northern Australia because the folks thought that spirits existed in plants. There was some ethnographic example given that when folks cut wild stands of plants that they'd hide the knife so the plant wouldn't see it coming. Sorry for being vague but that was 26 years ago and I wasn't an origins of agriculture person.

[@sharielane]

38:16 The mention of people coming together from long distances reminds me of a cultural practice of the indigenous Australians regarding an important native food called the Bunya Nut. The Bunya Pine only grows in a limited range, the Bunya Mountains in Queensland. And thanks to the alternating El Nino/La Nina weather patterns that subjects Australia to a cycle of drought, bushfire and flood, the tree only produces a crop every 2-7 years depending on weather conditions. However whenever a crop was ready for harvest the local people of the area would send out messengers hundreds of kilometres away to let all the other peoples know it was ready. Thousands of people of diverse tribes would converge on the area, putting aside any differences for the duration, and there would be months of celebrations and ceremonies performed as the nuts were harvested and feasted upon. And due to nature of such a large gathering it was also a time where disputes were settled, marriage arrangements were made, and goods were traded. I wonder if perhaps something similar also occurred at Gobekli Tepe and the other similar surrounding sites. If perhaps for the "harvest" season the various people in the region would put whatever differences they had aside and would travel and converge onto the harvest sites to partake in the harvest. Leading to these sites, and the (I assume) annual gathering, becoming an important meeting place for intertribal negotiations and trade. A meeting place that eventually become permanent.

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

That’s an excellent comparison - well worth considering 👍🏻

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Stonehenge was used in much the same way. But it's also about observation of the Solstice Calendar, hence the alignment of all Megalithic sites accordingly

[@BarbaraMiller-zz8rs]

I find your logic quite convincing, that moments of gathering were very important to the social element for a hunter-gathering peoples. I have been looking at this from the side of the Sami people in north Europe: the coming together for annual markets was a pivotal time for intertribal negotiations, trade and also important, the finding of marriage partners. Considering the Sami, gives me some ideas for Dr White's look at Gobekli Tebe, I feel that he needs to include the early harvesting of the sea. The Sami harvested the sea maybe more intensively than they hunted on land, could this have been the pattern world-wide? The early settlements in the area of Portugal show that they eat predominantly mussels.

[@ajkaajka2512]

thank you for sharing. That's why I love reading comments, to learn something new about other cultures and opinions.

[@petermaxfield7343]

Long story short, we created gods because we like to eat.😋

[@joemadda]

Or because folks were trying to understand the natural world. About the only thing that religion and science have in common is that they're both tools for understanding. I just wish folks decided that they'd prefer to live in the modern world and not the Bronze Age.

[@beenforet5391]

I have some alternative interpretations of the images that you might like to consider. First is the man without a head indicates that he is having an out of body experience. His head is in another world of animal spirits while his body stays behind. The fact that he is also ithyphallic is indicative of a trance. Similar depictions of ithyphallic spirit journeys are found in earlier cave paintings and shamans around the world report this phenomenon when going into trance.. If you do not have pottery, skulls make a great container for everyday use. The person with a bull is holding either a snake, a symbol of change, or perhaps even a "bull roarer", an instrument long used in spiritual ceremony and initiation or even another bull's tail with which the man is teasing the bull to prove his bravery. He is communing with the the bull to give him virility and strength. It is hard for me to believe that a single person could take down a bull and castrate it, especially the large, wild ancient bulls. The figure that is holding his phallus, flanked by two leopards, could be, as you say, a young man going through puberty initiation rights or he could be performing a rite similar to ancient Egyptian fertility rituals. In Egypt, according to legend, the Egyptian god Atum created the universe after ejaculation from masturbation. The flow of the Nile was also said to be connected to the number of times the god ejaculated. Due to this, the pharaohs of ancient Egypt were required to ceremonially masturbate into the Nile. Historically, also, leopards have an association with protection and rulers. Perhaps this figure is not an initiate but somehow involved with renewal.

[@richardearnshaw2719]

I had a few ideas of my own but then I had to rub one out and now I've got nothing again. Although I'm just wondering now what the surviving members of Monty Python's Flying Circus might make of it all. It's a larf, in'it? Say nooo more!

[@kaarlimakela3413]

As a kid grumbling about chores, I would sometimes get this 'We HAD you to do the work! The more hands to bring in the harvest, the better!' Note that I can remember no one in the family who ever farmed, as we all were Detroiters for generations 😆

[@daniellealexander9844]

My area of expertise! So glad you've done a video on this - first thing I did was check your references and found myself pleased.

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

Ooh, I don't think I've ever caught a Crecganford video this soon before! 😮 Time to settle in for an entertaining education! ❤❤

[@joshnoble0]

I appreciate that you can analyze the past without the biases of the present. Too much of the speculation about what Gobleke Tepe represents involves modern understandings of civilization that leave out archaeology and anthropology. We were still human before we built cities.

[@majidbineshgar7156]

It is always better to say Anatolia or modern Turkey considering the fact that none of civilisations in Anatolia were related to ethnic Altaic/ Turkic peoples at all.

[@kariannecrysler640]

I haven’t seen any works on the dna & isotopic data on bodies found around the greater area yet. Do you have any to cite so I can dive in?

[@alexeysaphonov232]

​​​​@@kariannecrysler640 well it's too easy there are a lot of researches (including DNA) in Anatolia and we know quite well timing of Huns-Mongols-Turks genesis in the Mongolia and we even know when they have first come into the area (Manzikert 1071). Also even modern turkish DNA aren't as turik as their languages (data is googlable). The most common y haplogroups are the local G2, J2, J1 and indoeuropean R1a, R1b. Typical turik Q is quasy non-existent.

[@morbloe4559]

@@alexeysaphonov232I’m an engineer and know nothing about genetics and whatnot. Got any good sites/books/sources that would be good for understanding what you’re talking about? Or would an average book on biology and genetics be sufficient to be able to draw conclusions like you are. Thanks

[@alexeysaphonov232]

@@morbloe4559 well I am an engineer as well. History, culture and languages are my private interesses. I don't know where you are now in this regard. You can start with some basic history of the region (Anatolia or maybe even Near East). You can google "Turkey DNA research" I See even a wiki reference. On indoeuropean you can look authors like David Antony or a bit dated but cool Maria Gebuntas.

[@jefflippman2925]

It wasn’t Anatolian then either so why not use the modern reference? Proto Scythian is more accurate

[@kariannecrysler640]

Woohoo Lee. Gotta show our archaeologists all the love for their works 🥰

[@kariannecrysler640]

14:56 look into the genetics of rice. It’s amazing what we are discovering about crops through genetics!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you

[@smillstill]

Another fantastic video! I can't help but notice the similarity between the human with two lions on either side and the later seated woman at Catalhoyuk with the same and later still depictions of Inanna with two lions and Ninmah with two stags in Mesopotamia. Could the human with two lions in Gobekli Tepe be a goddess controlling nature and the human with the bull testes be a male god controlling nature, juxtapositioned with each other?

[@Crecganford]

I will talk about this in a future video, but well noticed.

[@Nancy_S68]

Is the thing the bent-knee person is holding bull testes? I don’t think so.

[@smillstill]

@@Crecganford Thanks!

[@smillstill]

@@Nancy_S68 Actually, my first thought was that it was a cape 😂, but I'm pretty sure they didn't do that kind of bull fighting then. What do you think it is? Do you mean phallus or some kind of snake? If the other is a goddess, she could be holding an egg or the moon/sun.

[@3rdeye671]

The Bull painted on the wall of Lsscaux cave in western France is a representation of the Taurus constellation. It has the seven stars around the eye of the bull. Only the celestial Bull has these seven stars around the eye. This indicates that the zodiac constellation was represented as a Bull as far back as 25,-30,000 years ago. Zodiac symbolism was certainly formed a long time before Gobekli Tepe was constructed.

[@bardmadsen6956]

Maybe the headless man is a prognostication of academia. There are two examples that I know of in cave art. Half the bones found at Gobekli Tepe were Auroch, there are seven birds in a row under Pillar 18, there is a bull's head on the chest of the adversary pillar 31, and there was a grave at a sister site with two bovine scapula placed over it.

[@3rdeye671]

@@bardmadsen6956 you could say that the head of the headless man is on the wing of the Vulture in the centre of the upper T section panel. The upper section is the heavens. The Vulture aligns to the Cygnus constellation, the Great Celestial Bird taking the souls to the land of the dead beyond the great rift or gateway in the Milky Way or River separating the living from the dead. Later the Vulture becomes a Swan or Stork and we still have the story of the Stork bringing the new born baby to the world. The head can also be seen in the centre and in relation to the Vulture being the Cygnus constellation the head would align to the pole star position. Making the soul to be one of the Eternal Ones that all the heavens revolve around.

[@3rdeye671]

@@bardmadsen6956 the head of the headless man is to be found in the centre of the upper T section panel. On the wing of the Vulture. The head represents the soul of the headless man below. The upper T section represents the heavens above. The Vulture represents the Cygnus constellation the Great Celestial Bird that takes the souls of the dead to the Land of the Dead in the heavens above.

[@sophiejones3554]

That makes sense, since it is also the only zodiac constellation which is interpreted as the same animal in China and Europe. Even in North America it was still seen as a bovine: a buffalo. Evidently that asterism became firmly associated with bovines early on in modern human prehistory despite the resemblance not being super obvious. And while the exact stars which make up the celestial bull aren't universally agreed upon, everyone seems to include the Pleiades. Perhaps something to do with the behavior of musk ox/bison, where they form a protective circle of adults around the old and young? I could see that becoming a ritual dance or something which might persist through various cultural and linguistic shifts as modern humans moved eastward.

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

The Headless man is Orion, very obvious from the Constellation itself. Pythagoras means Heart of the Serpent, he was born in Sidon, a fishing Port in Phoenicia. His mother recieved a message from the Oracle of Delphi that he would become a great Leader and Teacher. Sidon means Kingdom of the Fish, and the Essenes, who wrote the Dead Sea scrolls, worshipped Pythagoras. The Sarcophagus of Eschmun III found in Sidon names him as the Widow's Scion, aka Hiram Abiff, the Founder of Freemasonry, of which Tyre was the premier Capital (at least equal to Thebes). In 911BC Rameses II married the Queen of Sidon, home of Jezebel (Daughter or consort of Baal, basically "Queen") founding Neo Assyrian Babylon, an alliance between Egypt and Hiram, father of Jezebel and King of Assyria, and Egypt, forming the Phoenician colonies and building the first Temple of Melqart to commemorate the alliance. The Si in Sidon is the basis of the Latin Exe, or X, and is the basis of the Cross, or Chi Rho that Constantine painted on his shields. Also known as the Cross of Tyre, or Cross of Baal, being Ra-El, or Ba'El. Oddly enough irrational numbers can also be mapped using Euler's number, producing a Templar Cross in the process: a map of where Eclipses are most likely to occur. This cross can also be seen around the neck of Nimrod in Assyria, and is consistent with the Union Jack, and Solstice Calendar found in the Vatican Shiva Lingam. Shiva is the Hebrew word for 7, their culture also found its way to Japan (via the Phillipines) ultimately becoming Shintoism. It was the Phoenicians who gave their name to the Pole Star, which they used to Navigate the Oceans using the Zodiac, thats what the Antikythera mechanism was for, and with it they wrote the Byblos Baal, what we now call the Bible. The first form of the Bible was written in 325BC and called the Vaticanus Greacus, or Son of the Sacred Serpent, a reference to Sirius, the basis of the Sothic Calendar, which uses a Hexidecimal or base 60 system found in all the Megalithic sites around the world. In the second century AD astronomer Valentinus Vettori transcribed it into a Lunar chart of 13 houses, what we now call the Zodiac. Horoscope means Star Watcher, and the Phoenician word for Saturn, or El, was Israel or El, (Fruit) of Isis and Ra. Alternatively El is the Father of Ra the Sun and Consort of Isis the Earth, aka El is the Moon. El is the primary God of the Phoenicians, representing the offspring of Egypt, and his consort Astarte or Ishtar represents the Assyrian half of the alliance. It may be possible to trace lineages and alliances through the naming of gods, which can be traced all the way to Ireland and the Vikings, and to Indonesia and the Americas, even as far away as New Zealand and Australia. It denotes Sirius as Son of Orion and Pleaides, which sits at 33 degrees of the Zodiac. The basis of the Sothic (dir Seth) Calendar of the Egyptians. The New Moon in this position marks Rosh Hashanah, the Egyptian, Celtic, Phoenician, and Assyrian New Year, the first New Moon of September, which is called September because it's the 7th House of the Zodiac, when the Sun is in Ophiuchus. The Phoenix, Benben, or Bennu is the Egyptian word for Heron, a Feathered 'Serpent'. It baptised itself in frankincense and myrrh at BaalBek, and then alights atop the Pyramid, upon the Holy Grail, or Altar of Ra every 630 years to take three days off the calendar during the course of the first New Moon of Nisan, which means "Prince". The Capstone of Pyramids is even called the Benben or Bennu. The Phoenix is found in all religions, which are all Astrological Allegory for the Moon travelling through the Constellations, as a soul migrating from body to body, this is the basis of Joseph Campbell's Monomyth, or the Hero's Journey. The various planets no doubt play their own roles as portents, omens, and aspects, this astrology is the science of the Bronze age, and lasted all the way up to the 20th Century. Reincarnation was an early teaching of the Christian Church, and likely relates to the lineage of Kings (The Pan is Dead, long live Pan!) Phoenicians represent the interim step between Egypt and Greece, their artisans and culture exceeding that of the Greeks, who literally adopted the Phoenician Alphabet, which we still use to this day, sounding out words phonetically. Phoenician is aliiterated in Venetian, and Vikings, being Kings of the Sea. The Bennu is the Egyptian Phoenix, to Phoenicians the Hoyle, no different to the traditions of the Etruscans, who saw birds as sacred, just as the Celts. Hebrew and Iber as in Iberia have the same root meaning over, as in overseas, as in those who travel "over the sea." A colony called Iberia also appears on the Eastern shores of the Black Sea, where the same Dolmens and Megalithic culture originating in Ireland and Brittany appeared circa 4500BC. _Phoenician_ means Scions of the Phoenix, the first Bible: Vaticanus Greacus Son of the Sacred Serpent (Prince). Then there's the Essenes, Sons of Light, the Tuatha De Danaan, Sons of Light, Annunaki, Sons of Light, Arthur Pendragon means Arthur Son of the Dragon; Chertoff is Russian for "Son of the Devil" and Dracula also means Son of the Dragon, Masons have been known at times to call themselves the "Brotherhood of the Great White Serpent". The Ziggurat of Anu also denotes her as a great white Serpent, while New Grange and the Bru na Boinne in Ireland (4000BC) coated buildings with white quartz to denote the Moon. The Moon itself travels outside the Solar Elliptic by 5 degrees, which means it passes through specific constellations in a serpentine fashion that is always changing, but repeats every 19 years, the time it took to train a Druid or Magi, Magi meaning "Teacher" the Phoenix is also associated with this sacred number 19. The name "Pharoah" means "Great House" or "House of Light" and Cairo used to be called Babel. Pharaoh's themselves wore a hooded crown representing feathers, just as Native American Chiefs, ie the Feathered Serpent, they were also called the Commander in Chief. Aztecs also had Serpent Kings, (Canaan means Serpent Kings, and Sidon was a Son of Canaan, and Great Grandson of Noah) who were called to lead with cunning and guile, being the very virtue by which they claim the title in the first place; but to be seen in public as just and diplomatic. "As wise as Serpents, but gentle as Doves" the old Egyptian flag of an Eagle attacking a Snake is also reflected in the Modern Mexican flag, denoting the Constellations of Serpentis (13th sign of the Zodiac) and Aquila. The dimensions and 12 mathematical constants of the Great Pyramid are also expressed in New Grange, and Stonehenge, as well as in Watson Brake, (2500BC) and Teotihuacan, which correlates to the Phoenician/ Sumerian Hexidecimal system, which is what our modern systems of time are based on. In fact it unlocks a kind of fractal pattern that is reflected throughout creation. Officially no one knows who invented astrology, the zodiac, navigation by the stars, and time keeping. But whoever built the pyramids, and pioneered the 24hr clock in Egypt 5000 years ago also knew the exact dimensions of the Earth, as well as the speed of light. These calculations can all be made using these Megalithic sites as surveyors use a theodolite. Specifically Teotihuacan, which sits 180 degrees opposite Cairo, and has the exact same footprint. The ideal positions to determine the speed of light using the transit of Venus, by which one can accurately determine Longitude for navigation. Capt Cook did the same thing in 1774 when he 'discovered' Easter Island. The only culture that fits the bill was wiped out "not one stone upon the other" by the Romans in 146BC. Tyre, the capital of Phoenicia (israel) sat just offshore from Uru Salaam: City of the New Moon, or City of Peace. The root of the name Jerusalem, and was also seized by Rome in 70AD after a 13 year seige. The gap between is 216 years. Greek Dionysians built the Temple of Solomon (now called the Temple of Melqart) representing the Solar Lunar Metonic Calendar on which this system is based, they also carried mirrors, a practice associated with both the Magi and the Druids as well as Greek and Egyptian scholars, these Mirrors are Astrological charts called "Cycladian Frying Pans" and record the cycles of the planets. The first Temple of Melqart (the Phoenician form of Horus, or Hercules, or Pan, or Thor) representing the 13th Constellation of Ophiuchus or the Serpent Bearer (hence Orphic Serpent worship) had pillars of Emerald and Gold, representing Isis and Osiris. The Jerusalem Temple only took payment in "Shekels of Tyre" a currency minted during the Jewish rebellion against Rome. "Give that which is Ceasar's unto Ceasar" When Alexander sacked Tyre in 332BC they moved to Carthage meaning "New City" or New Jerusalem, where they built a second temple with Pillars of Bronze. Nebuchadnezzar also seiged Tyre for 13 years, taking the City captive in 573BC: the same time as the biblical account of the Jews. And again in 70AD after a three and a half year seige, also consistent with biblical accounts. Palaset was the name of a tribe of the Sea Peoples, Pallas Set denotes the New Moon of Ammun Ra rising in Gemini, the Pallas Constellation of the Twins that stand before Orion. This occurs due West of the Temple of Solomon in Tyre between the Western Gates of Gibraltar, Gabriel's Altar, and is the basis of the name Pallastein, or Pallas Stone. As in the Philosopher's Stone or Holy Grail, Altar of Ammun Rah, the Rising Sun. The Cross of Tyre or Ba'El ❌ represents the Lunar maximums and minimums and correlates with the Cross Quarter days of the Solstice Calendar. Align the Cross ❌ Chi Rho Christian ✝️ and Star 🔯 to the zodiac and you have a Compass and a timepiece that can be used to Circumnavigate the globe.

[@chiron14pl]

Re: the second panel on the Sayburc relief. I recall In J. Campbell''s 4v Masks of God he shows a fragment of a relief he called "the Animal Master," which had an ithyphallic male flanked by tow animals. Thus while it could be coming of age, it could also be recognized as a more generalized celebration of mastery of animals, outside of a rite of passage

[@neftu9131]

Wonder if those central T-pillar pairs were used for sky burials. Connect their tops with planks, lay the corpse on top and then let the vultures do their part.

[@thomasbrown4791]

Interesting thought

[@roxyamused]

"Sky Burials" were charnel grounds, or ares where humans placed dead people. Vajrayana Buddhist monks shop up a teacher's body and do sadhanas and phowa. This doesn't happen where people store food that's for sure. For one, I feel like putting dead bodies around would be good for keeping pests away from food storage or keep food edible. Secondly, I feel like a lot of bones would be found if that was the case. Carrion don't just eat all of a carcass, they leave some stuff they don't like, or even find other remains around the site from carrion dropping stuff. It was used for at least 1500yrs, certainly could have been repurposed, but I think archeologists would know if it was a charnel ground.

[@francisfischer7620]

Beautiful voice and articulation

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@attekinnula4406]

Sayburc relief has one element that really stands out - the 3D depiction of a person. It really draws the eye to it. Since there is already another human figure on it, it would suggest that the 3D relief is somehow more important than the other human depiction, and central to the ...whatever the relief is about (story, myth, or just a depiction of an important event). I liked the point that Millstill made, about similarities to big carnivores flanking a person to be representative of human being stronger than nature. Whether it is female or male is then a question but it does not have breasts, which would - possibly - be a clear giveaway if you want to signify that it is ineede a female. Especially as the carving is 3D (there are also suggestions that the person is holding a phallus, yea maybe, but it's a bit hard to say, though the hand is in a suggestive place). Also on the abundance of snake carvings - if these were grain stores, that would have attracted rodents..and abundance of rodents might attract snakes which would be a good thing (this was a time when cats were getting domesticated as well I believe?)

[@FutureMythology]

Another great video! The human with two lions on either side and the later seated woman at Catalhoyuk with the same and later still images of Inanna with two lions and Ninmah with two stags in Mesopotamia are very similar. Could the figure with two lions in Gobekli Tepe be a goddess and the one with the bull testes a male god?

[@keegandecker4080]

Those leopards look more like lions to me because Asian lions have tiny manes. Reminds me of the lions with crossed necks on the narmur pallet. Furthermore, it seems more likely to me that the dancer is playing a flute to prove his bravery in the face of an auroch charge. Almost like a western kokopelli

[@thebordoshow]

Eagle and Snake fight? I think I know that one, well a version of it I should say and its most likely an Anatolian Farmer myth, from western Georgia. Eagle the king of the sky and birds and Gvleleshapi (dragon) lord of rivers and serpents are fighting over dominion in a swamp/marsh. king of humans and his army find them, both the dragon and the eagle offer the king a great boon if they aid them in battle. Lord of snakes offers rain good drinking water, but Eagle offers something special from the heavens (or something of gods, dont remember), king is intrigued so they slay the dragon together. Eagle flies off and brings back a tiny seed. he tells the king of men to be careful, power it brings is dangerous and not to indulge. the king plants the seed and from it grows wine. kings men make wine juice and rejoice, but they had extra left so they leave it in a gord. over time it ferments and turns into wine! (yes this was wine origins myth all along). so king shares this new invention with humanity, they rejoice and make more, until one man gets too drunk and falls in mud. thus king bans all wine. but one family still makes it in secret and that man one day kills a lion with his bare hands. so the king gives back wine to humanity but adds a law to not drink more than 3 cups. I read this a very long time ago, and in Georgian so best what I could remember and translate. It could be that humans learned how to farm from bird seed droppings and made it into legend. there are some other bird and wine myths. also wild wine grows on trees and maybe thats where birds come in.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for sharing this.

[@thebordoshow]

@Crecganford sorry if my English was scrambled, I wrote it at 3am. I'll hopefully visit Gobekli Tepe this year or next, I'm planning on doing a series covering Caucasian Monolithic structures and after that I'll expand to other neighbouring sites. Modern Georgians are a mix of Anatolian Farmers and Caucasian Hunter Gatherers and ancient Kartvelians resided quite deep into anatolia, making up large population of Hitite Empire, empire, but were ether pushed up into what is now Georgia or assimilated. Even today, core part of ethnic Kartvelians, Laz are under Turkey due to centuries long imperialist chess.

[@CeleriaRosencroix]

It strikes me that you may well be slightly wrong with regards to the impact this group had on the rest of the region. While the specific styles of art and the T-shaped pillar construction may have died out, but I think it quite likely that either there was a shared cultural origin for the group building and making art in this manner, or the people making these religious sites directly influenced the emergence of the plastered skull preservation practices found in Catalhoyuk, Jericho, and many other sites across modern Turkey and the Levant. My personal hypothesis, given the timeline of events and the proximity of the people involved, is that the decay of the site (slope-sliding events greatly damaging enclosures) in conjunction with the eventual receipt of news regarding the domestication of cattle led to a gradual decline in interest maintaining Gobekli Tepe and a gradual migration of those who inhabited it and similar sites to the west, well away from the area where cattle were first domesticated. These areas, the Levant and Western Anatolia, took a very long time to actually adopt the domesticated cow as part of their lifestyles, and in fact seem to have held the hunting of wild bulls (and other wild animals in general, it must be said) in high regard. It seems that even as the general lifestyles of the people in these regions became closer to sedentary and the domestication of grains came closer and closer to completion, there was a strong cultural desire to retain the connection with nature and especially the role of apex predator which their ancestors' lifestyles had afforded them. If the fixation on skulls is something inherited rather than simply a trait shared by the two groups whose chronologies just barely overlap (Gobekli Tepe falling to disuse around 8,000 B.C. and the plastered skull practices seeming to start at about 8,000 B.C. as well), then there is a very interesting potential narrative of social change and adaptation to the new nature of human existence which can be told. Of course, this is obviously highly speculative, but given the importance of the bovine in religions of the subsequent years, it very much feels right that there should have been major ripples through the nascent religious movements of the region once the Aurochs began to be tamed. The reticence to adopt such a potent domestic animal into one's societal structure when domestic goats and sheep were accepted quite readily seems to me to suggest that the people of Catalhoyuk and related settlements seems to indicate to me that there was indeed some sort of cultural tension, there, regardless of the source (especially since cattle, goats, and sheep seem to have been domesticated in areas relatively close to one another). It's also worth noting that pigs were similarly not adopted for thousands of years in these regions, and boars seem to, similar to aurochs, have held a significant, spiritually potent place in these groups.

[@Crecganford]

We certainly should discuss all sensible options, as no doubt as more archaeology is found our opinions may alter.

[@pauladee6937]

​​@@CrecganfordDear Dr. White, you're to kind. There's much more info about Gobei Tepe and Turkey and connections to other parts of world not mentioned here. Ive learned not cast my pearl/ Sources before the "opinionated. So, I'll post or contact. Yet to point out some misconceptions from the above comment, "T" Shaped, Did Not go out of Style! If a carving looks like a Boar- Pig, it's a Boar or type of Pig! Not a Cow, Bull or Auruk.

[@JonnoPlays]

Humans always need a huge hall for one ceremony and that is weddings because they attract so many people. I think it should be considered at least. Mate pairing was very transactional for much of human history and a big part of tribe relations. It might be a part of the story at Gobekli Tepe but I never hear much about this subject.

[@paulschuckman6604]

People of the Snake mixing with People of the Bull. Very interesting.

[@Carz6]

They could have been gods, or they could have just been holding the ceiling up. Maybe their primary function was pillars, but then people decided they were kind of anthropomorphic and they decorated them accordingly.

[@andreasvox8068]

Is there any archeological evidence that grain was stored in the buildings? I can't imagine how it was protected from rodents in there.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, grain has been found there, but only wild grain, not domesticated grain.

[@Svensk7119]

​@@CrecganfordWhere they found in abnormally large quantities?

[@arourallis]

Some sort of 'coming of age' ritual involving two live leopards for every man (or group of men) in a tribe sounds like a pretty steep cost... they could've been symbolic? Something along the lines of, a great-great grandfather _and_ grandmother in the form of a leopard welcoming a new adult to the tribe? The framing feels more mythical and narrative than the more 'naturalistic' death scene with the bull.

[@andreasvox8068]

Maybe the two parts have to be seen in conjunction? Whoever defiles the sacred bull by cutting off his testes is punished by being fed to lions? JK At this stage it's all guess work.

[@sophiejones3554]

That would be my hunch too given that the "man" has the head of a feline which Cregcanford for some reason seems to have overlooked. Though actually I would say the entire thing is mythological, given the way the man is baiting the bull with the object. Bad idea, if that's actually the bull's testicles. That'd be a great way of getting yourself killed lmao. It doesn't actually look like testicles either: when you castrate an animal you don't take off the penis, just the round semen-filled parts. Given the prevalence of using bovines as wealth in herding cultures I think the interpretation of this is wildly off base. What I immedately thought of was Theseus and the Minotaur. That object *does* look like a spindle, such as Theseus was described using in the much later Greek myth that has a lot more additions and a lot removed. But, again: cattle are frequently equated with wealth. And, as we know, they can be controlled by flashing something bright red in their face. Red ochre was among the first pigments humans discovered how to use: to dye fibers and hair among other applications. A very similar myth exists in Ireland: the Cattle Raid of Cu Chulainn. Many other such stories involving bulls also exist in Europe and the Middle East, and all of them also have another detail in common: the man controlling the bull leads to a romantic encounter with a woman who is somehow associated with the bull. Again: cattle were used as a form of wealth. So, rather than a coming-of-age ceremony I would think this is a *marriage* ceremony. Which much more neatly explains the guy holding his junk. The man is first taking the cattle, which represents his bride (there is actually nothing in the picture which suggests the cow ever had junk, aurochs cows had horns just like aurochs bulls did: a trait which persists in many breeds of domestic cattle). Then he is consummating his marriage in the presence of his ancestors, represented by the leopards. This tracks with the earlier representations of a lion-headed man, and a woman enthroned with leopards beside her. But, in the earlier representation the woman is carved into stone between the leopards. Now, the feline-headed man is between the leopards. This suggests a more obvious explanation for why the skeletons buried at the site are mostly female than what Crecganford suggested. The second scene shows the man not in profile, but straight on and grabbing his junk. As if oh... I dunno...a woman was supposed to stand facing him during a ritual of a sexual nature. I don't think this was intended to initiate a man, rather I think this was supposed to initiate a *woman* into a patrilineal clan. That is, the woman was marrying the feline-headed man who represents the male lineage of her husband. I think the switch of who occupied the space between the leopards has to do with a switch in how family lineage was traced: earlier on it they had a system of matrilineal kinship because women had no way to prove who the father of their child was in a hunter-gatherer group which included multiple mature males. However, in a herding and partly agricultural society where the women stayed in a single dwelling year-round (as guardians for the grain being stored at the site) while the men went out to hunt and trade, women could know who the father of their child probably was because monogamy (on their part anyway) would be the rule rather than the exception. So the tribe switched to using patrilineal kinship, and thus women from the tribe married out while women from other tribes married in. Thus, there was a need to initiate women who were not from the "leopard tribe" via some kind of ritual so they (and thus their children) could be seen as belonging to the tribe. This initiation ritual would have allowed the women to form a bond even though they originally come from different places and tribes as they would take on new identities in relation to each other and to the feline-headed man they were all symbolically married to.

[@j.l.emerson592]

There was an area of southern Egypt, aka/Upper Egypt, during the PPN that did much of what you've been discussing at an even earlier time period, around 15,000 years before present. (During a period of desertification) However, it seems that they took the additional step of broadcasting the grain seed... No, they didn't plow fields or weed any fields. They just threw the seeds on the ground & did nothing else until harvest time. They had seasonal villages that they built & used in rotation with other sites. Hundreds of querns have been found at these sites. The sites were in use only briefly, maybe a couple hundred years & then they went back to a fully nomadic lifestyle as soon as climate conditions improved.

[@Crecganford]

If you can reference a peer reviewed paper supporting this I'd be interested in reading it.

[@j.l.emerson592]

@@Crecganford From Wikipedia: Sebilian culture edit Main article: Sebilian In Egypt, analyses of pollen found at archaeological sites indicate that the people of the Sebilian culture (also known as the Esna culture) were gathering wheat and barley. The Sebilian culture began around 13,000 B.C and vanished around 10,000 B.C[citation needed] Domesticated seeds were not found.[12] It has been hypothesized that the sedentary lifestyle practiced by grain gatherers led to increased warfare, which was detrimental to sedentary life and brought this period to an end.[12] Grimal, Nicolas (1988). A History of Ancient Egypt. Librairie Arthéme Fayard. p. 21.

[@fuzzuck]

Given that many of the allegorical meanings from 15th & even 16th century paintings from the Italian & Dutch/Flemish renaissance are lost to modern minds, it reinforces how much more alien (in a terrestrial sense) the architects & artists of Gobekli Tepe must have been. The lingering medieval Christian symbolism of Bosch or Bruegel comes with libraries full of geographic & period-specific documentation from which to extract clues, whereas sites like Gobekli Tepe, Easter Island or Stonehenge come with an open sky & endless speculation. Great video.

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Well that And the hexametric Solar Lunar Calendar they all share ....

[@fuzzuck]

@@Uncanny_Mountain That would clearly fall under the 'open sky & endless speculation' category.

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@fuzzuck that is clearly a fragile Strawman argument based on you agreeing with your own opinion Not the objective scholar you like to pretend to be.

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@fuzzuck that would clearly be you appealing to your own non existent authority

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@fuzzuck thats a cute Strawman. Of course everything you say is true, it's only everyone else who is fallible You're like a God

[@rebeccadagostino6299]

I HIGHLY ENJOY N RESPECT YOUR INFORMATION N CONTENT❤. WAS WONDERING IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH Matthew LECROIX? His Research. Exciting, Fascinating Theory.

[@Crecganford]

Not someone I have read, but I'll have look.

[@rebeccadagostino6299]

Grain. Is This After People discovered HOW TO CROSS Grain into CEREAL.? As then same time Animal Husbandry?

[@Crecganford]

Yes, I think the people here may have been doing this, and certainly they understood grain well enough to grind it and make a more pastey food (there are many grind stones here), which may link into the increase in population because children could eat better. But this more advanced use of grasses was also heavily influenced by climate, and I think this was the key factor in moving to consume more hardy grasses like Rye, and from this a more repeatable process of managing specific grasses, from grain to cereal.

[@nnn-pr3vr]

I wonder if future archaeologists will think we worshipped every object we own that doesn’t have an immediate utilitarian use

[@Crecganford]

This is the way...

[@tatumergo3931]

Don't we do that already?

[@KedgeDragon]

After noticing the connection with animals as indicating turning of the seasons, as do the stars, I do not find it an unreasonable leap to associate constellations with animals that appear in the same seasons?

[@jordanrohlfing7924]

The 2 leopards in the Sayburc relief remind me of the 2 leopards painted in CAtalhoyuk 435 miles and 4000 years in between. Except there is no man in the CAtalhoyuk wall painting

[@ShekinahGwaii]

fascinating! I thught the "vulture" on the stone resembled an ibis, like a type of Thoth, and the "egg" medicine, or the representation of medicinal knowledge, like the great Pearl of abundance from ancient Japan -- if walls could talk! well, I guess they are, but nobody left to translate. I thought the bent kneed oxen seemed sick or thirsty, signifying famine more than ceremonious slaughter, as it left out the organs and blood, typically used in the blessings (?) frankly Urfa is a little too close to the many iterations of Earth, which would indicate 'earth-man' as opposed to the sky people and the star people. two things hit me about the animal-filled tablet, 1- how odd it is the symbol of a current country, on the Mexican flag representing Huitzilopochtli -- and 2- in art, depicitions often mean what they look like they mean, as in this is counter to the flow, nature, or life itself (?) thank you for another jewel! 💖

[@AncientArchitects]

Superb video mate 👏

[@ciaransmith1508]

Love the video only recently started watching your stuff really enjoy it. However have to disagree with you when it comes to Gobekli Tepe bieng used as a star observeritory. I belive it absolutely was. I take your point that the site represents a triumph over the natural world which could definitely indicate first form of existentialism in human kind. In that the tribe now maping the sky belives not in the animal powers as Joesph Campbell puts it but that they have control of there fate and are going to use there will to there full potential. Quite conspiratorial I know. There is also many other pilars other than Pillar 43 that have correlation to the constilation. Definitely think that this was there early form of the zodiac but even if proven wrong. It does show the old saying as above so below to be true weather known or unknown by the Human occupation below. Do you have a discord or anything loving diving into the subject of mythology on the go so probably haven't got any context in here what so ever 😂😂 Love the video again, Keep them coming

[@helencoltart3483]

I respectfully disagree with the grain storage - one theory I don’t see mentioned so far is that of a inter tribal meeting and/ or burial place. I’m basing this on the native communities of North America, which even as a seasonally nomadic cultural, often had generational sites used for meeting other tribes for trade, local politics,and mixing for procreation. I hardly believe a grain store would result in such decorative or elaborate needs as you certainly don’t want to advertise this if not having permanent residency. for protection of your hard gained stores. The fact that climate in the area afforded a permanent structure only makes sense to me.

[@mikeakachorlton]

A little bit of a shame that such an interesting subject, delivered with your usual clarity and knowledge has the faint music running underneath. It's like being gently tapped on the side of the head while one is trying to concentrate: small, inconsequential, but gradually attention drifts. After ten minutes I found myself checking if it was something in my environment, or if there was a tab open with something running, before I realised.

[@helenamcginty4920]

The houses at the site have only just started being excavated. As the communal areas have been covered by landslides continually then maybe there are hoyses, as you suggest, might well be below what is seen so far.

[@TEbersberger]

Btw - the climate graph your showing at around 12:50 seems to be somewhat incorrect. It completely ignores the phase of the climatic optimum or Hypsothermal when temperatures would have been close to today or even warmer. Same goes for the Medieval Warm Period. Also the temperature drop at the YDB is quite underrepresented as is the temperature rise leading up to it. Welcome to the hockey stick?

[@rickw0226]

Each and every one of your videos is a feast. This one is no exception. Thanks again for your research, careful writing, and provocative presentation, especially the care you take in choosing the precise words and facial expressions. A joy to watch!!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for your kind words.

[@juanmiguelreyesguerr]

Thank you so much for this video and for your insights!!!

[@Nancy_S68]

If the storage was communal the different carvings could represent different families/clans?

[@Crecganford]

I do think this to some degree, but I can talk about this more if people want to hear this.

[@laurafortier9295]

All religious things are myth to those that don't believe. Put that on a t-shirt. Omg.

[@2012escapee1]

So if it was pre pottery grain storage, was the grain stored in baskets? If so, rodents could easily get in, chew through the baskets, and eat all the grain.

[@Crecganford]

Some grain may have been stored in hide bags, but the cost of materials was probably not worth doing it, and so something bigger was required.

[@2012escapee1]

@@Crecganford Mice can chew through hide too. I know, we've had a mouse problem. Once they know how to get in for food they are very persistent.

[@leekestner1554]

I agree about the nature of the Bull and the Leopards. The bull by the way, is sweeping with his horns in a scoop motion, trying to hook the man. The man though dances beyond his reach. Reminds me of the Bull Dancers of the Minoans. The testicles remind me of the Spanish bull fighting. The Southern French have a style of bullfighting where the man snatches a rosette off the bulls horns and the bull in unharmed. It is fascinating to me the continuance or the coming back to a dance with the Bull. Even Americans' take on it by riding bulls is part of this story element. Why are we called to fight with the bull?

[@Crecganford]

I made a video called Holy Cow! which explains the bull fight's origins, or what we think they probably were.

[@chiron14pl]

I’ve heard some of the updates but you put them all together in a coherent narrative that synthesizes it, great work. My thought on the grain storage idea; grain can spoil from fungus if not dried, do we have any archaeological evidence for this part of the process?

[@Userinterfaceexperience]

I've fallen asleep a lot to your videos and woken up randomly and tried to stay awake to listen and learn AND woken up with morning coffee actively listening. 😅😂❤ TY! Edit: You definitely have cool uncle telling bed time stories vibe. But with better content.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@hestiathena4917]

Hmm... If the figure between the two big cats wasn't undeniably male, I'd wonder if there was some distant connection to the much later "Seated Woman of Çatal Höyük." They could both be intended to depict a similar "mastery over animals" idea, though. The carving with the bull, meanwhile, could give further strength to the idea that the practice of young men proving their skill, power or virility through some form of bullfighting is very, very old indeed.

[@WYCD]

0:01 It tells of the fall of Alduin, and the return of the Dragonborn.

[@juliam248]

To me, those murals may represent a fertility ritual versus a coming of age ritual. A bull has represented male virility in certain myths, so, um, getting the bull's virility may be a ritual meant to bring fertility into another year. I believe there were other, later, beliefs that had fertility rituals involving animals. Also, I think we're still in the early stages of excavation, and there are other sites that have barely been touched. Who knows what's underneath the tepes! I sincerely hope we get more contextual clues to their stories and more information about the origins of agriculture in the next few decades.

[@stephenchoisser1105]

I don't often comment on KZbin, but since you asked so nicely... 🙂 I find your theory about the imagery of the man dancing with a castrated bull interesting, though speculative. However, I do find the argument of human victory over nature very compelling. That would have been the story of the times. On the other hand, I don't find your theory about the second figure to be very compelling. I doubt that it represents a young man coming of age. Quite frankly, I don't think a young man coming of age was important at all. It was probably just as annoying to them as it is for us today. Remember, by the time these sites were being built, there was no shortage of young males. This was a time of plenty ...and excess available labor. Women and birth would have been more important, yet they weren't depicted either because by then it was ordinary. But if you are correct about the first image, then I would interpret the second figure as also being representative of mankind's "victory" over nature. But my imagination see's it as showing man's loins are superior to natures. Mankind castrates the male bull (the biggest animal known to these people) and yet can protect his own genital from the fiercest of natures animals. That's how I see it.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for taking your time to comment, yes it speculation based on my understandings, but all thoughts on this are interesting in the hope one of them may be the key to unlocking this 11,000 year old secret.

[@Svensk7119]

I must confess to it being months since I have seen your work. I found this rather enjoyable! Glad I saw it.

[@Crecganford]

Weclome back!

[@Lucius_Tenebri]

Mind the gap.... Good one 😅 cracked me right up 😂

[@zipperpillow]

Consistently excellent, Jon! You are our extraordinary guide for journeys back in time. Always a worthwhile treat. Thank you.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for your kind words.

[@KedgeDragon]

In a male-dominated society, the female body is most often represented. Could this be diagnostic for female-dominated societies portraying males more often?

[@joeferrebee1511]

Is it possible that the figure in The Sayburc relief between the two felines could be a woman and not a man? I am thinking along the lines of Cybele.

[@Crecganford]

It is unlikely due to the emphasis of the groin area on it, but I do certianly hope that we find the place where Cybele and those mother goddesses appeared in the historic timeline. As this will help us understand the cultures that brought this idea to the region.

[@maxdaly8185]

Re: The meaning of the eagle carrying the snake? It might be part of an early reincarnation myth. Both are born from eggs. One slithers on the ground. One flies in the sky. If you make bad choices in life you could be reborn to slither, but if you make good choices, you’re reborn to fly, or if you’re a king and buried in a proper tomb, with enough gold to please the gods, then you ascend to heaven. Just a thought.

[@lazynow1]

take a drink every time he says hunter gather.....

[@yensid4294]

The whole astro-calendar idea being important to pre-agricultural societies ...idk. I would think The Moon & The Sun would have been important, but hunters who led a nomadic, semi nomadic or even settled lifestyle probably would have focused more on what the animals were doing (migrating in or out, mating, birthing etc) & what the plants/trees were doing( budding, dropping leaves, bearing fruit etc) Attention to the sky & the weather (rain)were probably more important than constellations (which they could have had myths about of course & used fixed stars for navigation) So...idk. Actual astro-calendars seem more likely to have been invented once people were 100% settled & dependant on their crops & domesticated animals: when to plant, when to harvest, when to milk, lambing & calfing season--their entire society would have been structured around it. And most likely their religious rituals would have too. Hunter/gatherer societies ....idk. More data/evidence is needed I think.

[@gruboniell4189]

Wow. Carrying grain??? Great point. I live in Australia where aboriginals were actually gardeners. Every square foot of Australia was neatly cared for for the most bountiful harvest. This way travel was easy. The deserts were navigated with stars and stories. This would be a great subject for you to explore as aboriginals “KOORIS or MURRYS” lived the same way the the rest of the world did at some stage

[@colinjames7569]

Nevermind. I answered my own question. I look forward to more of the information you discover

[@robo5013]

I wonder if the presence of more female remains at the site could indicate that they were the majority of the permanent residents while the men would leave for periods of time to hunt.

[@icenarsin5283]

Amazing work as always

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@dmonvisigoth1651]

Brilliant. You really know your shit, bro.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@dmonvisigoth1651]

@@Crecganford Any day, mate.

[@sarahpersonalexcellenceguide]

If you stop thinking of it as religion and a religious site, you'll see the truth of what the site was.

[@Crecganford]

I think we have, and I do say that in my video. It was a site where religious activity was practiced, but it was not a religious site.

[@Corvaracha]

Amazing video, shining among the pseudoscience that seems to cover this topic

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@pauljensen6075]

Regarding the Sayburg carvings: Could they have some relationship to Dionysus or some related deity? Afterall, Dionysus is related to the rebirth of plants, bulls and leopards. Also he is holding his penis in the leopard scene and in an article, I read on it, it seems he is wearing a mask.

[@Crecganford]

I can’t see any correlation with that, the difference in age is too huge in my opinion, although I would be happy to read evidence supporting this.

[@HayleydeRonde]

Being from the family of 'Seedhouse' and fox mad (knowing they are on the pillars). This was fascinating. There is some evidence today of foxes being kept as pets in bronze age Iberian and Jordan Pleistocene cultures and others (such as the later ancient and extinct south american culpeo companions -though not true foxes), could they have been processed as furs and food elsewhere and revered for the provision here (I have read it is often eaten in places)? They seem to be with bent legs too. The fact we dont mention the fox much bugs me, we have cultural amnesia with foxes everywhere, their fur has been currency, forever, researched them right back to creation stories (specifically black or silver foxes - fur foxes). The bull and lions remind me of matadors and gladiators. Seems plausible to be a male ritual-type thing. Bendis is much later but a huntress wearing a fox skin cap and the Thracian's used to use foxes to test the thickness of ice. Was much later and further afield, but those ideas came from somewhere .. also birds of prey, snakes and foxes are all mousers. And the porthole stone looks to have 2 foxes flanking each side with a bird looking down on them at the top,if they were there alive at all, could it be a "bed" or entrance for such animals?... the foxes are going to bug me for a long time yet!

[@samizdat113]

Very little progress will be made at Gobekli Tepe for the foreseeable future. The World Economic Forum controls the site. The WEF has stated that Gobekli Tepe will be "saved for future generations to uncover".

[@Crecganford]

We still have a mass of data to process, and such a stance by the WEF is common practice for larger sites.

[@samizdat113]

@@Crecganford Why is the WEF involved? What does GT have to do with economics? Something smells fishy about that.

[@fairuzpandavar9796]

I really appreciate this channel. Thank you.

[@VasiliosBakagias]

Long Live the Ancient Dreams!

[@andrewcutler4599]

How do you think Gobekli Tepe relates to other snake cults? Edit: particularly, you did a video about a snake video 17kya in a cave in France, and argued that it was part of a phylogeny of snake myths, including PIE fights with serpents, the Leviathan in Job, and the snake in the garden of Eden. 28% of the identifiable animals at Gobekli Tepe are snakes, twice the amount of the next most common animal, the fox, at 14%. And that is if you bundle animals that appear next to each other. Snakes tend to appear in clusters. If the individuals are disaggregated, they are a full 50% of the animals at Gobekli Tepe. Is your contention that snake worship at GT is not part of the larger phylogeny? That whatever stories they told about snakes died out? But those rituals 17 kya did not?

[@Crecganford]

This is a great question, but one I cannot answer fully just yet. I am working on a video about this, but all we have is the carvings at Gobekli Tepe, the myths are hidden from us in a way, but I am unraveling them. And whilst they almost certainly include Indo-European overlap, there would be other influence, maybe around immortality which involves snakes, and so I'm trying to understand the balance here and other clues in the carvings and reliefs. With the snake sacrifice video, we have the confidence that Indo-European myths an align to the archaeological finds. I hope that helps.

[@andrewcutler4599]

@@Crecganford But why are the beliefs at GT more hidden than 17kya Europe? Why do you think GT is further removed from PIE than 17 kya Europe?

[@OneOnOne1162]

This kind of makes me wonder, are there any examples of cultures which retained their animalistic/spritual deities while also becoming organized and complex sedentary societies? Or would that just be impossible?

[@Crecganford]

The Sami/First Nation Americans and similar are probably the closest we have to this, although I'd imagine their beliefs are somewhat corrupted now.

[@OneOnOne1162]

@@Crecganford Alright, thank you for the response. Very interesting. =)

[@starrmont4981]

We are so privileged to have you to tell us these stories. Even if they are way off, it's a special experience to connect with our ancestors.

[@nnonotnow]

Personalization of gods. That's as good and succinct an explanation of the effect of man moving out of nature that I've ever heard. Such a turning point

[@skepticalgenious]

That seems strange that you suggested karrahen Teppe would have a roof. I mean it's a winter solstice observatory. And the moons light almost makes the pillars appear to function as a clock. Rather interesting. It was buried so shouldn't that be with it? Limestone preserves wood. Called lime wash. Helps a structure to breathe without absorbing water or molds. It preserves it for thousands of years. And the bedrock the pillars are carved from is limestone. Why cover a solar alignment with a roof, you wouldn't see the stars? I am humbly asking.

[@Crecganford]

You start with question with a belief that I have found no data to support, and the wooden beams were covered with soil that, through slippage, helped preserve the space they took up, they were not covered in limestone.

[@skepticalgenious]

@@Crecganford oh so only the pillars were limestone like the bedrock? Cool Do you perhaps know what the dirt on top was?

[@alancattelliot4833]

Thanks you very much for this video. If I may, and with no intend of offensing, I have some issues with serving God as a ground motive for ancient people's behaviour, especially for those living in Prehistoric times. Can we really take aside the judeo-christian influence of an important number of archeologists, in their claims ? So much assumptions. In mathematics, assumptions are used to solve problems. In Prehistoric Archeology, I have the feelings it serves right the need for publications. At least sometimes. Headless human representations, in the context, are just out of reach, for now. And the same goes for the scene of bull and the man. The only issue being, that, as for a conclusion, it probably provides not enough material to write a "decent" paper. From the perspective of Logic, I have nothing against assumptions. As long as the mainstream story doesn't end being built on assumptions over assumptions, with reasonning stretches only back up by the fame of those who made them.

[@Crecganford]

I never said they served God, they created gods, through the personification of beliefs due to psychological influences of society which I explain in the video.

[@alancattelliot4833]

@@Crecganford Thank you for your answer. My english is just so poor. What I meant is just that stories, or assumptions, build without the inclusion of "God" are probably best suited for the purpose of explaining this site, especially when it is so difficult to split representations between figurative and symbolic. In addition, I shall say that the concept of "God" depends strongly on his cultural representation. Spirits, Supreme Existence, the Force, the Nature itself. So much shades of meaning, around "God", each carrying some very different ideas of the relation between human and deities. An accurate use of the notion of "God", in a given context, shall be built upon a strong knowledge of the cultural context in which it is introduced. Which makes the study of the creation of "God", or gods, really difficult, in my opinion. The same goes for the artistic expression in Prehistoric Times, which is, to my knowledge, a still vivid debate. Anyway, it is still a great pleasure to watch your wonderfull videos, where I better understand how studies are conducted in your field. And I really appreciate that you took some times to answer my question. 🙏

[@morgan97475]

Fascinating perspective. Thanks for this video.

[@enderselcuk9925]

Dr. White why did they decide to stop the excavations in Göbekli Tepe and made an announcement in Davos World Economic forum?

[@Crecganford]

This is common practice at archaeological sites, so that teams with better technology in 20 years or so can then continue. It happens in Egypt to England, there is nothing untoward about this.

[@enderselcuk9925]

@@Crecganford thank you.

[@alananimus9145]

I would like to provide a potential alternative to the discrepancy between the art being male centered and the burial's being primarily female. I suggest that given the time frame we are discussing perhaps looking at animal behavior might lead us to insight. We have moved away from the male centrism of animal culture and begun to recognize that it's the highest ranking female who often "rules". The question that occurs to me is why given the number of male animals in the carvings are their so many female burial's? This doesn't suggest to me a patriarchal or proto-patriarchal society but a matriarchal cult. A society which centers itself around women with mostly male bands. There are enough cultures with wide enough spread practice of sending young men away to roam often in bands or individually with bands forming. This would actually track with what we have observed from the other great apes. This then leads to the question if it is so common among the other apes, when did this divergence in humans occur and why? If we are assuming it happened before this site was built why are we assuming that? What evidence is there of it? Patriarchy seems to from more modern research be a result of famine or other such strife leading to the rise of strong man cultures. I would also point to the predominance of male deities in female only cults. This seems to make the most sense of the data to me.

[@king_halcyon]

Is that why there are so many goddess figurines in Europe (and their worship is somewhat prevalent in India as well)? Also, are your claims supported by scholars? There has been a great deal of study about ancient Near East and Europe in the last 2.5 centuries

[@alananimus9145]

@@king_halcyon While there has been a lot of study of the Near east in the last two and half centuries any scholarship prior to the past 30 years is deeply suspect. The father back we go the more suspect the scholarship. For example the scholarship that suggests it was famine that gave rise to patriarchy is recent, as is the scholarship that suggests matriarchy is dominant in other species especially (for this conversation) apes. I do think that it could also explain goddess figures but that is a much harder case to make. The difficulty comes in with the fact that we have to peel back the myths that have come down to us to reveal prior belief layers. As it is however much of the older scholarship (and older scholars that are still alive) make certain unfounded assumptions, namely that it is natural that social structures both in human and non-human animals is the default. And that female centered social structures are unnatural.

[@elizabethdavis1696]

What are the years or time periods that you specialize in?

[@Crecganford]

Predominantly from around 8000 to 1000 years ago

[@elizabethdavis1696]

Thank you

[@mrpocock]

Do we have any genetic evidence for the people who built and used this site?

[@Crecganford]

There were human remains found but it is a limited sample, and so not statistically significant at the moment, it is hoped more data will be acquired through further exploration of the site.

[@andersgustafsson5533]

Finally someone mentions Göbekli Tepe in connection to food storage. Other scholars have probably presented the idea earlier, but hadn't heard about it. On a possibly related side note, I think that the ancient circular "buildings" constructed from mammoth bones found near rivers in Russia were also mainly constructed to preserve and protect food (mammoth meat). What are your thoughts on that?

[@andersgustafsson5533]

Also, is it possible that some of the structures at Göbekli Tepe were constructed to save water for drier seasons?

[@Crecganford]

There is a lot of water management at the site, although much of it is still uncovered. We also need to understand that the region was much wetter then, water would have been in more abundance, and so the need to store an excessive amount wasn't so great.

[@senduirsellaid593]

Is there really archeological evidence for hierarchy at gobekli tepe? The later Çatalhöyük seems to indicate a egalitarian society.

[@Crecganford]

Any group that has more than 6-8 individuals will naturally start forming a hierarchy, and when you get to more than 150 you have to as the human brain has difficulty remembering more individuals to any deep degree after this. And so whilst there may not be direct evidence at the site to show this, our understanding of human psychology suggests that there would have at least been a simple hierarchy, maybe four leaders, one for each special building, and each leader may have had a religious figure alongside them.

[@senduirsellaid593]

There is an obvious danger in projecting modern day psychology onto neolithic society; and there are no archeological evidence for hierarchy at Gobekli tepe... so there is plenty of room for other interpretations. 🙂 Love your channel, by the way! 🍺👍

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

Interesting observation of Ursa major (and minor and Polaris) in the cosmic hunt: That is a "fylfot"(to not trigger the algo) in story form. It can only be observed for a relatively short time every roughly 26,000 years. Something to consider.

[@stephenchoisser1105]

As soon as you mentioned the first narrative scene carved in stone, I thought of the man covering his groin standing between two large cats. I call it the "Oh no! Not my penis!" carving and I laughed when it turned out to be what you were referencing. Then I thought... why am I laughing at some poor sod who's about to be killed by lions and they're probably start by eating out his groin. They do that you know. But then I thought.. why did these early people bother to go to such great effort to depict what today sort of looks like slapstick humor? Most probably not for humorous reasons. I hadn't considered the victory over nature narrative until watching this video and I think you may be on to something here though I interpret it somewhat differently than is presented.

[@mdug7224]

Thank you. Could the figure between two leopards signify some form of kingship? Symbolism of big cats and dominance of big cats seems to be a recurring king/hero trope in mythology.

[@xavier84623]

The thumbnail looks kinda 3d on my phone.

[@tatumergo3931]

A visit to the Optometrist might be in order...

[@ThePawsOfDeception]

I wonder if the lack of faces in the carvings has any relation to the lack of human faces in cave paintings all over Europe throughout the Palaeolithic. Perhaps there was some sacredness to faces (especially when you consider that the only time they would've seen their own would've been reflected in water - the gateway to the underworld/afterlife) that made representing them anathema? They undoubtedly had the artistic skill necessary if they'd wanted to.

[@JulieTafo-q6o]

I just read this in Spanish records.. For your valuable skills. The Turks were enslaved, transported to the Middle East,and placed in the royal courts and armies of the Abbasid Empire. Turkish mercenaries often known as Mamluks, had risen through the ranks.

[@Andy_Babb]

Recently commented on another channel how I wished there was more available on the topic of the religion of Gobekli Tepe and when religion first appeared in human history… then POOF! Pumped for this lol

[@leekeithf23]

Hi, I think the Tepes became eventually cities, for hunter gatherers chose who would go hunting and who would stay and protect. However, the more that hunter-gatherers moved, the greater the cities grew as inhabitants would welcome visitors in who would trade 'fur for corn' when famines hit. So, eventually hunter-gatherers became extinct, for more found the stability of cities appealing, and any stragglers were civilised by luring them with maidens, asking them to shave etc in order to 'pillow' with them. They were forced to be civilised, as shown in epic of Gilgamesh.

[@kennethmheck1]

What tools were used to create the images on the stone pillars and were used to harvest grain? The bronze age didn't begin until about 3300 BC.

[@Crecganford]

You can use hard rocks to shape softer rocks.

[@kennethmheck1]

@@Crecganford Did they use hard rocks to harvest grain?

[@joemadda]

​@@kennethmheck1they had sickles with pieces of stone laid into the blade.

[@ejd53]

First, looking forward to this one.

[@WACkZerden]

nice

[@hypramgeth7449]

Bulls were small back then, people wanted bigger bulls and that's the kind of thing primal magic was for. It must have worked. Also tribal coming of age rituals are about endurance and bravery, everyone gets a participation award if they show up and endure the ordeals.

[@tr7b410]

Pillar 43 at Gobleki tepe uses symbology as an instruction manual for attaining samadhi. The vulture holding up the sun indicates:If your devotion to GOD is intense enough your soul can soar on the thermals currents of your love into a higher consciousness=Handbags👜. On the left is a snake🐍/Kundalini. On the lower right is a headless body with an erection-if you can stimulate the 2nd chakra your reproductive hormones can be pulled into the pineal gland flooding the brain with a DMT substance which allows your mind to disconnect from this dimension. The scorpion indicates if you can enter samadhi your ego will feel the sting of its death. Gobleki tepe was a spiritual convention center allowing for the exchange of spiritual information during, as Sri Yukeswars book:The HOLY Science would chronicle, the Satya yuga-The age of spiritual TRUTH.

[@StringVest]

Got to the pottery bit. Ok no pottery, but there was a ceramic industry in Dolni Vestonic, Moravia, around 25,000 BCE. So were the people of Gobekli Tepe 15,000 years behind the curve? A clay mask was found on the site so they knew how to work and dry clay. It's a couple of steps to firing it if it's the right clay.

[@joemadda]

If they were firing pottery on site you might be able to infer the season as you can't really fire pottery in windy winter conditions. Wind will create extreme thermal gradients and I've heard several pieces crack when the wind blows strongly. I actually have a couple clays I collected while kayaking and plan to fire a couple small pots and ashtrays next camping trip. I had an undergrad professor (Adovasio) that examined textile impressions on pottery from Dolni Vestonice and Pavlov. But myself I studied pottery and clays in grad school. Clay is an amazing group of minerals!

[@joemadda]

And the right clay is important. I did a paper in grad school on all these clays that fire white to see why we just don't find white pottery in the Middle Atlantic region I studied. But those clays simply do not fire well. However, with the addition of mussel and oyster shell (CaCO3) the clays actually do fire decently. So why didn't they use those clays when they definitely had shell tempered pottery? They certainly had the technological ability. So, it must come down to some form of choice. But where then do you go from there to propose a reason and some meaningful analysis?

[@StringVest]

@@joemadda Great insights. I've seen reasoning that settlements like Catal Hoyuk were located where the clay was because it was of such ritual importance. Do you think the ancients of the area were well aware of the properties of clay, and therefore lack of pottery is evidence, as you say, of choice rather than ignorance? If you can fire pots on a camping trip, which I never thought of, that would fit with a nomadic h&g lifestyle.

[@joemadda]

@@StringVest honestly I'm not sure what to think as I'm definitely not an expert in anything Anatolian. What I do know is that the adoption and use of pottery needs to make sense culturally. I'm wondering if pottery is "late" to Gobekli Tepe because there was some trade exchange relationship surrounding limestone vessels. I believe that in the SE US that steatite vessels persist after pottery is used because of preexisting trade/exchange networks and the social interactions that go along with that. Social preference cannot be overstated either as I saw that some early pottery at Boncuklu Höyük is thought to have been used to cook with hot rocks despite being able to be put directly on a fire. But why? Well, the same thing has been found ethnographically in the American SW and the folks say they do it because they prefer the taste. Myself and 3 others did a hot rock cooking experiment with pottery in an attempt to see if it left any use wear that could be discerned. Let me tell you that if you aren't using the correct rocks you'll have a ton of grit in your food. I guess the main thing I'm getting at is that culture plays a very important role in the adoption of technologies. Folks aren't just automatons ready to snatch up every technology. And even when adopted (by mobile folks) a technology needs to fit within their settlement pattern. I did a sourcing study using petrographic and geochemical analyses to see where pots were being made and how they were moved across the landscape. South of Trenton, NJ is a huge Middle Woodland site (Abbott Farm National Historic Landmark) where we suppose folks met seasonally for the procurement of anadromous fish along with trade/exchange, mates, etc. My data indicated that pots were manufactured at the group fusion/fission site in the coastal plain and subsequently moved into the hinterlands of the Piedmont, however, no pots appeared to have bee manufactured in the uplands. So were they transporting something? Were the pots left in these upland sites as a sort of boundary marker? So many questions I never got to answer as a medical condition removed me from the world of academia. It also could be that the season of occupation of these upland sites was at a time of year when pottery just isn't easily fired. Ultimately, I wanted to examine the possibility of the existence of matrilineal decent and resource "ownership." It's often seen that even among HGs that aquaculture can lead to matrilineal decent just as with agriculture. The Iroquois were like that. But that's neither here nor there anymore for me. Here are a couple of interesting articles I found that you can Google. Boncuklu Höyük: The earliest ceramics on the Anatolian plateau Investigating the function of Pre-Pottery Neolithic stone troughs from Göbekli Tepe - An integrated approach