The Natural Order of Money | Roy Sebag | EP 330

Ep. 330
Dr Jordan B Peterson and Roy Sebag discuss financial investing, the intrinsic value of gold, and man's relationship to wealth and the natural world.
Roy Sebag is a self-made entrepreneur who has innovated across multiple industries. He is the author of the newly published book "The Natural Order of Money" which is about the intrinsic relationship between people, money, and nature.
Dr Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: utm.io/ueSXh
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- Links -
For Roy Sebag:
The Natural Order of Money (Book): www.naturalorderofmoney.com/
Roy Sebag’s Jewelry Company Mene: www.mene.com/
Goldmoney Precious Metals Investment: www.goldmoney.com/
- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(1:09) Intro
(3:00) Early Investing, writing Warren Buffet
(10:30) Aiming for Alpha
(12:15) Old-school views of macroeconomics
(13:00) Stocks versus commodities
(15:01) Stocks against time
(17:32) Why value investing is insufficient
(19:56) What constitutes value
(20:50) Economics as a means of truth
(21:30) Elitism in trading
(23:00) Mining and call options
(25:50) Buying toward intrinsic utility
(29:01) Permanence and decay
(32:01) Abundance and intrinsic value
(37:28) The allure of gold, the growing shortage
(40:22) At odds with modern economics
(45:30) A theology of wealth, material and spiritual
(49:00) Let nature take its course
(51:23) Returns from the land, working with it
(53:00) The two classes, artisans and aristocrats
(56:30) Proxy commodities: emblems and essence
(1:02:01) Pre and post subsistence
(1:03:00) Jewelry as a token of memory
(1:04:58) Newton, alchemy, and the gold standard
(1:07:45) You must produce for the privilege to consume
(1:12:03) The energy crisis, war in Europe
(1:15:00) Order and divine unity
(1:17:10) The Natural Order of Money
(1:22:03) The natural economy
(1:26:32) Work and leisure: a broken balance
(1:29:37) Entropy as the degenerative force in nature
(1:32:03) Sustainable games
(1:38:50) Superior money
(1:44:01) Logical errors
(1:47:47) The true loss in centralization
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[@TastyTrees916]

Peterson is like the father many of us never had. What an amazing soul. We love you!

[@WhitneyDahlin]

Omg I literally came down here to say this! It's really sad how many of us have parents who are failures.

[@DioBrandoWRYYYYYY]

how embarrassing.

[@DioBrandoWRYYYYYY]

@Duke of Lancaster the man was addicted to benzos and his daughter is a three-holer who grifts off his name, and he's Ben Shapiro's mouthpiece and footstool. JBP is both a moral coward and a failure in many ways.

[@koenv.i.9188]

the man's a nervous wreck with a god complex.

[@JesusisGod-yk4th]

Repent. Believe in Jesus Christ. John 3:16 KJV - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Luke 13:3 KJV - I tell you nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. John 3:3 KJV - “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

[@jasonb421]

Dr Jordan Peterson is helping correct the course of humanity in a way that I don’t think anyone else is currently. Thank you Dr Peterson. God bless.

[@user-ux5mo2ng2c]

yes! and on so many different aspects.

[@anthonybrett]

@@DukeofLancaster About the only courage Rodger's ever showed was when he pulled the trigger on the gun aimed at his own head. He died as he lived...like a coward. Weak and pathetic to the end. Peterson has one thing over him at least...Peterson has had sex before lol

[@anthonybrett]

@@DukeofLancaster Dude, are we talking about the incel bag of puke that blew his brains out cause he was a coward? Or is there another Elliot Rodger's that I dont know about?

[@mariosauceda6833]

I was thinking the but by interjecting. He is trying to have a Conversation. And do you remember that podcast about bitcoin. Every body with some Assertive voices dont know were im going with this one.but i like this video on Precious metals 😫 bit long on 50 or 100 years. For my investment 🤔

[@samilucille1]

I'm in full agreement isn't these discussions fantastic!!!!!

[@larrythelobster2474]

Please have Roy back. Probably my favourite guest to date.

[@KingDavid-jj7tk]

These same hands will now earn a fortune in the greatest transfer of wealth in human history by shorting the financial system on the way down. The financial system has been artificially pumped for more than a decade to ensure that rich pockets were lined. I'm still debating whether to sell my $338k worth of stocks; what's the best way to profit from this bear market? While inflation does play a role, it primarily serves to keep everyone in a panic and preoccupied with paying their bills and expenses.

[@stevensmiddlemass2072]

@@patriciamartin10 I need a guide so i can salvage my port-folio due to the massive dips and come up with better strategies. How can one reach this advisor?

[@stevensmiddlemass2072]

@@patriciamartin10 Thank you for this amazing tip. I just looked the name up, wrote her and scheduled a call.

[@clarksbackup]

Perhaps you should read Adam Smith Wealth of Nations. Spoiler alert the Americas transfer gold to Spain

[@mariussavatier4155]

I'm doing my PhD in Finance about the efficiency market hypothesis. This conversation was amazing !

[@ciniss]

Sounds intresting, can you give more info what your work will be about? :D

[@JalalKZulfiqar]

Would love to know where you are doing your PhD from and what sort of research you’ve come across

[@timrichardson518]

@@opinion4755 money is credit

[@tallswede80]

@@timrichardson518 Wrong. Fiat currency is credit. Money is Gold, and the value of Gold is not based on a counterparty.

[@tallswede80]

@@opinion4755 Wrong. Productivity is what "lifts".

[@alohi79]

As someone who has been reading and studying (when possible) macro trends and not only their obvious economic, but also existential correlations for years... this is one of the most incredible podcast episode I've ever listened to. No surprise, it's with JBP. If Jordon ever interviews Paul Laviolette, I will have a transcendent experience.

[@mrme3717]

Our world has 4 fundamental practices that are problematic. If we dont understand the causes we will address the symptoms or actors, not the causes. 1st. Large private & Central banks have obtained the Exclusive franchise to create ALL new Currency as Debt, at interest. An increasing population needs an increase in currency, but it is ALL created as debt bearing interest. This indebts the whole world, every person, every government, in totally unpayable debts, enslaving us all to bankers through personal debt or ever increasing oppressive and unjust taxation, permits, licences, rates, registrations, regulations, duties, fees, fines, levies, surcharges, adinfinitum, of which an increasing volume goes straight to the debt creators, who created it for free. (At zero cost to themselves.) 2nd. Virtually no limitation plus fractional and recirculating fiat currency allows banks to effectively create massive new Currency volumes as DEBT, blowing massive bubbles (in housing/stocks) which devalues everyone's wages, savings & pension by raising all prices. We call this inflation, but it's really devaluation. (Shrinkflation adds to our reduction and desolation. ) The fix ? Go back to Sound Metalic Money and stop all banks and financial institutions loaning out more than they have on deposit, but further, DO NOT ALLOW ANYTHING BUT Metalic Money TO BE CALLED AN ASSET OR COLATERAL. Real Estate loans have been classified as collateral. This allows the bank to call the loan an asset, and sell it, or loan against it, which blows real estate bubbles. Today >80% of Bank loans are for Real Estate, 50 years ago > 80% was for industry. Return currency creation to national treasury departments with a zero Inflation policy and set % levels for industry loans v home loans. This will not create inflation like some bankers/economists would have you think. It is not WHO creates currency that drives the constant devaluation of your work & money, it is THE VOLUME per population/ productivity. The banks increased the base currency supply by over 65 % since March 2020 & 300% since 2008. This is multiplied as real estate bubbles lever up equity to underwrite new loans. You can't spend it off planet, and we've had no increase in population or productivity. How can this not devalue all our savings, wages and retirement funds by a similar % as it enters the economy ? 3rd. Fiat currency whether paper OR DIGITAL has no intrinsic value, thus it cannot be used as a long term store of value, particularly in an ever expanding fiat system and it is really only taxation and the 'legal currency' label attached that creates only (artificial) demand for fiat currency. The fix ? Return to Silver, Gold, Copper & Nickel currency, designated by weight, not cents/dollars. These will find their own local value. These can't be printed to oblivion, have intrinsic value, and are a safeguard against bankers counterfeit loans. Continue to keep the manufacture of Gold & Silver rounds by private mints & foundries to help keep the government mints honest. Do not allow bankers and economists of the current system to con you into believing there isn't enough Metalic Money. There is a lot of the peoples Gold sitting in every Central Bank doing nothing. Monetise it now. You mix 1% gold, 99% copper or Nickle and you have Gold backed currency. Same with Silver & Nickle. Mint 10th ounce, 2 10ths, 5 10ths and 1 ounce. Or grams in similar increments. Never give it a 'value number,' which is a lie. Give it its weight & purity, and let the market decide what it will buy. Call it 'slow money," like 'slow food.' It's slower for sure, but it's 10 times better for you. We don't need a faster 'speed of money' if we aren't racing against inflation and unpayable debts & interest, and we dont need to live at 100 mph. Probably necessary to nationalise mines & pay shareholders out in metals. We are aiming at a more just, more perfect union, and that requires we treat shareholders justly and make them whole while preserving a mining and exploration industry. So gently, thoughtfully, carefully on this one. 4th The World Bank and IMF are your friendly international arms of the Federal Reserve, who loan worthless US currency invented at zero cost to enslaved nations of people to purchase necessities, when their own commodities or worthless currency would do just as well. This ensures the indebtedness of nation's simply to survive. Correct these 4 Principles and >80 % of a nation's problems would disappear. Do not allow your masters the Debt slave creator's to tell you it can't be done. They are not seeking your best interests, but theirs. It is easily done within 3 years if a Global effort was made. Beware. The FED, IMF, WEF wants you totally enslaved with Digital currency. Convert your garbage fiat currency into Gold and Silver or prepare for destruction. Come to think of it, you better prepare for destruction anyway. The bankers motto is : 'Preserve your Capital at all costs.' The bankers are buying Gold. We the people can afford Silver.

[@phoenixrising4762]

What's so incredible about it?

[@alohi79]

@phoenixRising47 That's a very vague question that would require an obtuse explanation to even attempt to answer... Im not trying to write a synopsis of the entire interview, but if you have a more specific question, I'd be happy to express what I personally found insightful.

[@alohi79]

@phoenixRising47 broadly speaking tho, while he touched on things that other macro investors like Ray Falio and Jim Rogers have said, he got more in-depth with things like the dynamic between the natural economy and inflated service sector. JBP's questions took it even further by taking the conversation into an area that could be considered behavioral economics, even if it wasn't intentional... all of which, if you're into macro patterns between different fields, is extremely interesting.

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

@@alohi79 and I'm fascinated by this layer of intelligence and pattern seeking myself.

[@thomasashcroft2758]

Roy presents his arguments so clear that it is hard for his ideas to be misunderstood. I’m buying your book. This was an incredible discussion as always Jordan. Thank you both for your hard work.

[@liberty1981]

Check out his debates on gold vs bitcoin. The dude is a heavy hitter ⚡️

[@darcyrezac]

Good comments

[@SeanSchwifty]

@@darcyrezac meow meow meeeoooow! 🙀

[@vincea5276]

Jordan has an innate intelligence and is clearly in the zone on the subject matter, but there were so many times that he did not allow his guest to finish his sentences. He needs to allow his guests to finish the point for the themselves before he adds his complimentary contribution in conversation. This conversation was very interesting and informative. Thank you Jordan & Roy.

[@samilucille1]

I noticed this too! Yes agreed

[@StaalBurgher0]

Agreed

[@lorddale1579]

Agreed, I missed out on a few points of interest because of the constant interruptions.

[@FrankRem]

Very good point indeed. “The fool speaks, the wise man listens.”

[@luzfelipe2964]

Agree

[@dougmoesizlack9807]

Dr. Peterson engages in some of the most interesting conversations I've had the privilege of listening/watching and I will continue to say the man needs to be celebrated and his works need to be spread to as many people as possible, man or woman, anyone can benefit.

[@mrme3717]

Our world has 4 fundamental practices that are problematic. If we dont understand the causes we will address the symptoms or actors, not the causes. 1st. Large private & Central banks have obtained the Exclusive franchise to create ALL new Currency as Debt, at interest. An increasing population needs an increase in currency, but it is ALL created as debt bearing interest. This indebts the whole world, every person, every government, in totally unpayable debts, enslaving us all to bankers through personal debt or ever increasing oppressive and unjust taxation, permits, licences, rates, registrations, regulations, duties, fees, fines, levies, surcharges, adinfinitum, of which an increasing volume goes straight to the debt creators, who created it for free. (At zero cost to themselves.) 2nd. Virtually no limitation plus fractional and recirculating fiat currency allows banks to effectively create massive new Currency volumes as DEBT, blowing massive bubbles (in housing/stocks) which devalues everyone's wages, savings & pension by raising all prices. We call this inflation, but it's really devaluation. (Shrinkflation adds to our reduction and desolation. ) The fix ? Go back to Sound Metalic Money and stop all banks and financial institutions loaning out more than they have on deposit, but further, DO NOT ALLOW ANYTHING BUT Metalic Money TO BE CALLED AN ASSET OR COLATERAL. Real Estate loans have been classified as collateral. This allows the bank to call the loan an asset, and sell it, or loan against it, which blows real estate bubbles. Today >80% of Bank loans are for Real Estate, 50 years ago > 80% was for industry. Return currency creation to national treasury departments with a zero Inflation policy and set % levels for industry loans v home loans. This will not create inflation like some bankers/economists would have you think. It is not WHO creates currency that drives the constant devaluation of your work & money, it is THE VOLUME per population/ productivity. The banks increased the base currency supply by over 65 % since March 2020 & 300% since 2008. This is multiplied as real estate bubbles lever up equity to underwrite new loans. You can't spend it off planet, and we've had no increase in population or productivity. How can this not devalue all our savings, wages and retirement funds by a similar % as it enters the economy ? 3rd. Fiat currency whether paper OR DIGITAL has no intrinsic value, thus it cannot be used as a long term store of value, particularly in an ever expanding fiat system and it is really only taxation and the 'legal currency' label attached that creates only (artificial) demand for fiat currency. The fix ? Return to Silver, Gold, Copper & Nickel currency, designated by weight, not cents/dollars. These will find their own local value. These can't be printed to oblivion, have intrinsic value, and are a safeguard against bankers counterfeit loans. Continue to keep the manufacture of Gold & Silver rounds by private mints & foundries to help keep the government mints honest. Do not allow bankers and economists of the current system to con you into believing there isn't enough Metalic Money. There is a lot of the peoples Gold sitting in every Central Bank doing nothing. Monetise it now. You mix 1% gold, 99% copper or Nickle and you have Gold backed currency. Same with Silver & Nickle. Mint 10th ounce, 2 10ths, 5 10ths and 1 ounce. Or grams in similar increments. Never give it a 'value number,' which is a lie. Give it its weight & purity, and let the market decide what it will buy. Call it 'slow money," like 'slow food.' It's slower for sure, but it's 10 times better for you. We don't need a faster 'speed of money' if we aren't racing against inflation and unpayable debts & interest, and we dont need to live at 100 mph. Probably necessary to nationalise mines & pay shareholders out in metals. We are aiming at a more just, more perfect union, and that requires we treat shareholders justly and make them whole while preserving a mining and exploration industry. So gently, thoughtfully, carefully on this one. 4th The World Bank and IMF are your friendly international arms of the Federal Reserve, who loan worthless US currency invented at zero cost to enslaved nations of people to purchase necessities, when their own commodities or worthless currency would do just as well. This ensures the indebtedness of nation's simply to survive. Correct these 4 Principles and >80 % of a nation's problems would disappear. Do not allow your masters the Debt slave creator's to tell you it can't be done. They are not seeking your best interests, but theirs. It is easily done within 3 years if a Global effort was made. Beware. The FED, IMF, WEF wants you totally enslaved with Digital currency. Convert your garbage fiat currency into Gold and Silver or prepare for destruction. Come to think of it, you better prepare for destruction anyway. The bankers motto is : 'Preserve your Capital at all costs.' The bankers are buying Gold. We the people can afford Silver.

[@clarenceweaver6681]

I am a gold bug but never heard such an in depth exploration why gold is money. Thank you Jordan for interviewing Mr Sebag. I intuitively accept his thesis by my Judeo- Christian beliefs.

[@xxrngxx5]

$BTC

[@DanielK1213th]

@@xxrngxx5 oh shut up

[@xxrngxx5]

@@DanielK1213th Is that the best you can do? It's obvious you don't have the intellectual horsepower to formulate a coherent argument. Maybe you're just mad at the world or don't like yourself so you resort to an ad hominem? Pathetic.

[@mistacrust]

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about money and especially how the order of values are determined I found this podcast one of my favourite to date. Incredible and thought provoking. Thank you, Roy and as always Dr. Perterson.

[@nawafnawaf2538]

Dr.Peterson; do not stop; I’ve seen really bad people with really bad thoughts and I am sure they know they are bad but never stop they keep trying; you sir are good and good intentions and your goal much higher. Do not stop you’ve helped many and still helping; I wish I can help by anything but I pray that god show you the right path and continue on it .thank you you really showed that your time and effort you spent resulted a great help to people who honestly looking for truth for meaningful life🌹

[@l_alvarez_1k]

I'm in love with the mind of this man. His natural instinct to seek out truth and the use of trial and error is lost in the most recent generation. He literally was able to aquire a "gold" mind in his quest for a more valuable life.

[@re2399]

Oh, oh we have a "gold.digger" 🙄😆

[@durtisdanger]

True alchemy at play 😉

[@Whatishappeningworld]

I've been waiting for an interview like this for the past 5 years. Very well explained for the cycle of value, labour, time and money. I'm obsessed.

[@big_red_machine3547]

Prime example of an economist completely over complicating a basic function

[@durbinpoison775]

This is more of a discussion between two highly intelligent men. Many people are leaving comments believing it is an interview. I feel that it is not an interview but a discussion. Both of these men are great...and I enjoyed this video. Thank you!! 🌞

[@parrish8386]

Making money is not the same as keeping it there is a reason why investments aren't well taught in schools, the examples you gave are well stationed, the market crisis gave me my first millions, people shy away from hard times, I embrace them.. well at least my advisor does lol.

[@leojack9090]

It's important for investors to exercise caution with their exposure and be mindful of new purchases, particularly during times of inflation. It's advisable to seek the guidance of a professional or trusted advisor, as high yields in this economic climate can be challenging to navigate.

[@TomD226]

Not at all, having monitor edge my portfolio performance which has made a jaw dropping $273k from just the past two quarters alone, I have learned why experienced traders make enormous returns from the seemingly unknown market. I must say it's the boldest decision I've taken since recently.

[@lowcostfresh2266]

@@TomD226 Please pardon me, who guides you on the process of it all?

[@TomD226]

@lowcostfresh2266 Laurel Dell Sroufe is my adviser and she is highly qualified and experienced in the financial market. She has extensive knowledge of portfolio diversity and is considered an expert in the field. I recommend researching her credentials further. She has many years of experience and is a valuable resource for anyone looking to navigate the financial market.

[@fadhshf]

@@TomD226 Thank you for this tip. It was easy to find your coach. Did my due diligence on her before scheduling a phone call with her. She seems proficient considering her résumé.

[@kelleylahner9503]

Brilliant conversation and education! Mr. Sebag reminds me of a modern Francisco d'Anconia, from Atlas Shrugged. Dr. Peterson is enjoying himself. Thank you!

[@sickboy4029]

Same!

[@achillesegaruoc1807]

As a market analyst, this interview is extremely fascinating. Thank you for sharing, Dr. Peterson!

[@phoenixrising4762]

As an accountant, I can't listen without frustration. Glad some enjoy it but I just cant

[@alohi79]

@@phoenixrising4762 That's very common when Micro focused ppl listen to macro investors. 🤷‍♂️

[@flowstateentertainment8395]

@@alohi79 or it might be because “finance” and “market analyst” are closer to scam jobs than a profession such as accounting

[@alohi79]

@Flow State Entertainment I agree. Financial analysts, in general, are as compromised as movie critics, but this guy is a macro investor, so (thankfully) that doesn't apply. Interesting strawman/ ad-hominem argument, tho. 👍

[@patrickterry4134]

This interview was his only flop in my opinion. All these "analysts" are crap shoots. Who actually makes investments based on quarterly reports - those things are marketing scams thought up by dirty CFO's - I know, I've owned several publicly traded companies and lived in that world for 20 years - all a giant scam.

[@ScottlandShaffner0423]

You & your guests are helping many people immeasurably with your unrelenting pursuit of truth in ALL spheres, including me! Thank you!

[@marcinmorun]

This video inspired me a couple of points: #1 If you're selling without profit, it's a gift. #2 Intrinsic value have no numbers; it cannot be measured; it's a "feeling" a person has towards "something" that this individual portraits "it" as desirable. Without desire, there can't be no value. #3 No ownership, no trade. #4 Statistics do not predict a future outcome; statistics, when done "correctly", is a "review" of a "future's past". #5 The cost of any production is almost proportional to "energy" spent; Nothing in "existence" is perfectly equal, otherwise there would be no "motion" (no space, no time) #6 What is "rare" is not "scarce". Even if there were only one (insert name), "its" "value" is as high and low to infinity. #7 What is money!? Everything and Nothing, Full and Empty, In and Out. #8 There is no "growth", strictly speaking. It's just an impression you get when comparing (any) moving "masses". #9 Measurements (weight, length) of any masses are a combination perception, perspective and proportion; All things are "equal" to themselves. #10 God is indefinable. How dare we speak of... ...without definition! #11 If money is gold, knowing that there is not enough gold for everyone to trade, what will others use to trade if gold (as money) would be the only "acceptable" tool to use for trade, by law?

[@newfreenayshaun6651]

We will all be OK because of your work, thank you, Dr. Peterson! May your health continue to be such a tremendous gift to this world!

[@melissasmomglam]

We will only all be okay if we do the right thing when faced with the difficult decisions of the times. When we individually ALL (or at least mostly) stand up and say no when something isn’t right, then we will be okay. No one man can change the course of the world by himself. If one wants to change the world, it takes influencing others to say no to bad ideas, but it’s a start to steer people to good ideas and what evil looks like.

[@PaulRayProductions]

Roy Sebag is an economic rock star, what a delight to hear him speak.. Amazing surprise

[@gregizzo4191]

This is the first time in my life where economics seems both interesting and real to me. Thanks Jordan for bringing this man to my attention.

[@benruby5269]

The understanding of stuff like this will help humanity come together and accept hard truths like unfairness instead of blaming every problem on greed and evil. Be careful, people's confirmation bias will not allow them to accept that stuff like equality and fairness are not possible. You will be accused of being all types of terrible things for trying to teach fact and reality. When you experience this you will realize war and conflict are inevitable and the side that appears to be on moral high ground are so stubborn and confused that they will only bring pain and chaos. Check out economics professors channels like Anthony Davies and demographics too, like Peter Zehain. Don't let these sad truths get you down too much!

[@davidhunt313]

What can possibly be more unwelcome than the understanding that in every voluntary relationship, those who care the least about maintaining the relationship have most of the power within the relationship!?

[@nkyabosi4827]

A discussion with Jordan Peterson and Roy Sebag, is a must watch for me.

[@Spit823]

As someone who has 12 dollars in my bank account. I found this episode fascinating

[@johnzielinski9951]

Hey friend, can I borrow 12 dollars?

[@barbaraherda9212]

You may know, but that’s not your $12. You loaned it to whatever bank/credit union it’s in. Yes, it’s in the fine print. It’s called “deposit reclassification” and is why next crisis they’ll be doing bail ins.

[@jorgenascimento9710]

Damn it's a sad day to be an American or living in th USA, I live in Europe and I have plenty on my savings account, plus shares of AMD. And I work medium income job. Muricans....

[@PeterChorao]

You now owe money to your bank if under their minimum balance and f penalty probably well over 12bucks

[@lessimcdowell9897]

Neoliberalism In the early 1970s, a group of democrats and republicans formed a whole new type of American conservatism and social engineering and that type of engineering has been coined, neoliberalism. The concept of neoliberalism started in post ww2 europe when the western business leaders decided that since they are already the masters of industry they might as well be entitled to managing governments as well. The mission objective of neoliberalism in america was an ambitious one and can be confirmed by reading the powell memo from 1971 but much of what I have written here came during the Reagan administration. The plan: 1) talk the fortune 500 companies into pitching 10% of quarterly earnings into buying off all the American politicians of both parties, all government officials in every agency, all the media outlets and the anchors they pay and all the judges and courts. 2)pay the media to stop criticizing the private sector so car manufacturers can ship all jobs overseas and effectively turn America into a service economy instead of a production economy. 3)Pay government / cia to plan coups in oil rich nations so that an American / British oil oligopoly can control production / price of all global oil. 4)Pay the politicians of both parties to never pass working class legislation and only pass corporate laws and gerrymander districts so the corporate candidates always win. 5)Pay the courts and judges to hurt enemies and protect corporations. 6)social engineer wedge issues. the main objective here is a way to drive a wedge straight through the working class and get half of them to vote pro corporate without even realizing it, the Republican Party is built to constantly pass corporate law. (All mainstream media including msnbc steer viewers to the right, all social media is also meant to attract left leaning people and steer them to the right. Fox is the status quo, it keeps all republican voters from becoming too anti establishment while making their audience feel like a counter culture. The Democratic Party is historically for working class so when democrats win majority, the donors can only pay them to create “do nothing caucuses” and that’s exactly what they do. If dems were paid to pass corporate laws like republicans, they would face uncertain primaries much like Kristen sinema.) 7)platform evangelicals to get Christians to ignore pro abortion biblical texts (numbers 5 11 22) and become anti abortionist cafeteria Christians so they vote Republican. 8)Adopt a southern strategy that gives a black welfare queen scapegoat to all the southerners that used to vote democrat before the civil rights movement so they now vote Republican. 9)establish trickle down economics so that all mothers and housewives in lower and middle class households have to enter the workforce and much like abortion, feminism can become a huge wedge issue that helps more American vote republican, while at the same time the low labor market value will benefit the owners. (ironically enough, it was Reagan and the “conservatives” that promoted the nuclear family but ultimately pushed through these anti family policies with reaganomics and forced all low skilled conservative mothers and housewives into the workforce, it was not a surprise that crime exploded because no parents were at home anymore) 10)implement financialization: deregulate wallstreet to the point where corporations and the oligarchs that own them will never lose power. have the fed quantitatively ease gambling losses of those oligarchs and corporations so they never financially lose by printing more money. 11)Never allow competition in the market or an end to planned obsolescence by merging in new and successful companies into existing conglomerates that essentially function as oligopolies. 12)Make sure only laborers are taxed and never shareholders and owners. 13)when quantitative easement causes the inflation rate and interest rates to rise, sacrifice labor by laying off millions of corporate workers and kick them out of economy so they stop spending and it will ease interest rates and borrowing for corporations will become affordable again and gambling and quantitative easement can continue. 14)make certain lower class families never organize worker cooperatives and become financially independent of employers and government by simply adding a few positions to college campuses and firing leftist economic professors. Blacklist anyone from media that promotes worker cooperatives and make sure the narrative is always off economics and on trans people turning children trans or something and if economics are the topic make sure it’s capitalism vs the Soviet planned economy or capitalism vs social welfare programs and never capitalism vs worker cooperatives. After reading the memo, nixon made powell a Supreme Court justice just two weeks later. There were a few snags in this plan though, in 1973, Nixon and the neoliberal front which by this point probably included the cia, had access to opposition research on republican politicians that would never accept dark money so they could defeat them in primaries in 74 but they didn’t have any research on dems and had to break into offices to retrieve them. This came to be known as the watergate scandal. Carter getting elected in 76 also slowed down the movement. In 79, the neolibs and cia got the Iranian hostages(something caused by one of those oil coups) released but they decided to keep them held by their Iranian captors for 100+ more days than they were negotiated free so that carter would be hurt in the ‘80 election. Reagan was elected and was far more successful than nixon at implementing powells plan. Today we are living in powells neoliberal america where the donor class wants you to think they only donate to one party but even trump has admitted to donating to democrats because the system is entirely corrupt. The post 80s neoliberal infrastructure mostly works by main stream media making dem voters think everything is gops fault and republican voters think everything is dems fault. It’s called divide and conquer. There’s no such thing as Republican and democratic fighting, theres just one group that has both parties in their pocket. If there are any policies in this country you do not like, blame the people that own the politicians and courts and media and government. They are the fortune 88. They are an oligarchy. The oligarchy’s main motivation is to keep ALEC going as much as possible. ALEC is a corporate think tank that passes corporate legislation. This type of legislation and social policies like anti gay or anti abortion laws actually kills local economies. the neoliberal deep state dont care about red state economies though because they live in nyc and San Francisco where those social policies don’t reach them but all the corporate laws that kill small businesses do reach them in blue states. Anyone that gets in the way of ALEC has to be removed from the equation. Donald trump can’t win general (electoral) elections anymore because his personality motivates people that don’t even vote to get registered and vote against the gop. this hurts ALEC and ALEC is all that matters to the people who actually own everything in this country. They don’t care about aborted fetuses, they’ve owned the Supreme Court for 30 years and have allowed 30 years of fetal murder and only now shot down roe only to hurt trump and maga for a few election cycles so they can retake the Republican Party which they see as there’s.

[@AkiKii519]

as a business and finance specialist myself I loved this episode.

[@stevemcgee99]

What I learned in MBA school was that tax law and monetary policies are why “corporations are evil”.

[@kristelanneparagas]

"I've never looked at the periodic table the same way until I saw this video. These people should be running countries, and it would flourish, where people would be accountable for themselves and their environment and take responsibility, not by force. Thank you for what you do, Dr. Peterson. It would be a privilege to meet you someday, insha'Allah!"

[@AnnEve-mi5zv]

First money mistake to avoid is feeling the need to solve everything and be there for everyone, you have to invest in yourself before investing in others

[@ArdenAspen35]

You live and learn. I blew two funded $50K accounts with Karen L Nancy mentorship program. It's really making me self reflect and be able to see my trading mistakes even more. I got caught up in revenge trading and not walking away when I should have.

[@BrooklynHarlow21]

You live and learn. I blew two funded $50K accounts with Karen L Nancy mentorship program. It's really making me self reflect and be able to see my trading mistakes even more. I got caught up in revenge trading and not walking away when I should have.

[@BrittanyDoris]

Our issue stems from the prevalent belief held by the majority that "having a good job is all it takes to become wealthy." Many people are unaware that these billionaires are using a different set of rules when conducting business.

[@AylaAzalea8]

That's very practical and smart goal, a wise man once said do everything you can to get outta debt, one of his tips to get rich.

[@BrianShannon241]

The best approach for novices is to trade under the supervision of an expert, trust me you will be debt free.

[@Argamemond10k]

This will be an episode I will listen to many times. A "goldmine" of understanding of the modern and classical world. Thank you for your allowing me and millions of others to follow your pursuit of understanding and knowledge of the world.

[@mariannwarner3774]

As a CPA, and someone who has long been interested in all things financial, I have always felt that our entire system is a house of cards because there is really no value in so many of our financial transactions. I’ll have to read this book. My terror comes in imagining what happens when all the cards collapse.

[@miranda92051]

When the cards collapse we will be introduced to a government-controlled digital currency - for everyone's convenience, of course!

[@barbaraherda9212]

It’s why people need to get their wealth out of the system, as much as possible.

[@mrme3717]

Our world has 4 fundamental practices that are problematic. If we dont understand the causes we will address the symptoms or actors, not the causes. 1st. Large private & Central banks have obtained the Exclusive franchise to create ALL new Currency as Debt, at interest. An increasing population needs an increase in currency, but it is ALL created as debt bearing interest. This indebts the whole world, every person, every government, in totally unpayable debts, enslaving us all to bankers through personal debt or ever increasing oppressive and unjust taxation, permits, licences, rates, registrations, regulations, duties, fees, fines, levies, surcharges, adinfinitum, of which an increasing volume goes straight to the debt creators, who created it for free. (At zero cost to themselves.) 2nd. Virtually no limitation plus fractional and recirculating fiat currency allows banks to effectively create massive new Currency volumes as DEBT, blowing massive bubbles (in housing/stocks) which devalues everyone's wages, savings & pension by raising all prices. We call this inflation, but it's really devaluation. (Shrinkflation adds to our reduction and desolation. ) The fix ? Go back to Sound Metalic Money and stop all banks and financial institutions loaning out more than they have on deposit, but further, DO NOT ALLOW ANYTHING BUT Metalic Money TO BE CALLED AN ASSET OR COLATERAL. Real Estate loans have been classified as collateral. This allows the bank to call the loan an asset, and sell it, or loan against it, which blows real estate bubbles. Today >80% of Bank loans are for Real Estate, 50 years ago > 80% was for industry. Return currency creation to national treasury departments with a zero Inflation policy and set % levels for industry loans v home loans. This will not create inflation like some bankers/economists would have you think. It is not WHO creates currency that drives the constant devaluation of your work & money, it is THE VOLUME per population/ productivity. The banks increased the base currency supply by over 65 % since March 2020 & 300% since 2008. This is multiplied as real estate bubbles lever up equity to underwrite new loans. You can't spend it off planet, and we've had no increase in population or productivity. How can this not devalue all our savings, wages and retirement funds by a similar % as it enters the economy ? 3rd. Fiat currency whether paper OR DIGITAL has no intrinsic value, thus it cannot be used as a long term store of value, particularly in an ever expanding fiat system and it is really only taxation and the 'legal currency' label attached that creates only (artificial) demand for fiat currency. The fix ? Return to Silver, Gold, Copper & Nickel currency, designated by weight, not cents/dollars. These will find their own local value. These can't be printed to oblivion, have intrinsic value, and are a safeguard against bankers counterfeit loans. Continue to keep the manufacture of Gold & Silver rounds by private mints & foundries to help keep the government mints honest. Do not allow bankers and economists of the current system to con you into believing there isn't enough Metalic Money. There is a lot of the peoples Gold sitting in every Central Bank doing nothing. Monetise it now. You mix 1% gold, 99% copper or Nickle and you have Gold backed currency. Same with Silver & Nickle. Mint 10th ounce, 2 10ths, 5 10ths and 1 ounce. Or grams in similar increments. Never give it a 'value number,' which is a lie. Give it its weight & purity, and let the market decide what it will buy. Call it 'slow money," like 'slow food.' It's slower for sure, but it's 10 times better for you. We don't need a faster 'speed of money' if we aren't racing against inflation and unpayable debts & interest, and we dont need to live at 100 mph. Probably necessary to nationalise mines & pay shareholders out in metals. We are aiming at a more just, more perfect union, and that requires we treat shareholders justly and make them whole while preserving a mining and exploration industry. So gently, thoughtfully, carefully on this one. 4th The World Bank and IMF are your friendly international arms of the Federal Reserve, who loan worthless US currency invented at zero cost to enslaved nations of people to purchase necessities, when their own commodities or worthless currency would do just as well. This ensures the indebtedness of nation's simply to survive. Correct these 4 Principles and >80 % of a nation's problems would disappear. Do not allow your masters the Debt slave creator's to tell you it can't be done. They are not seeking your best interests, but theirs. It is easily done within 3 years if a Global effort was made. Beware. The FED, IMF, WEF wants you totally enslaved with Digital currency. Convert your garbage fiat currency into Gold and Silver or prepare for destruction. Come to think of it, you better prepare for destruction anyway. The bankers motto is : 'Preserve your Capital at all costs.' The bankers are buying Gold. We the people can afford Silver.

[@stapleman007]

Don't worry, the US Federal Reserve and the almighty dollar is backed by a dozen aircraft carriers and 1000's of nukes. Even balloons stand no chance.

[@phoenixrising4762]

My sentiment exactly

[@zacksymes]

My favorite Peterson podcast in the last 12 months. What a blend of spirituality and basic 3rd grade geology - all mixed with common sense and a focus on “nature does it better than man”

[@cil949]

This guy Roy, is a true Gem. Thank you for inviting him.

[@IThinkImGonnaBust]

I’ve always wanted Roy Sebag to be on the Joe Rogan Experience because he’s my favorite public intellectual and I didn’t realize until today that such an interview wouldn’t be nearly as valuable as an appearance with someone like Jordan Peterson. So happy to have done my monthly “Roy Sebag” search into KZbin today. Great conversation and great book! Highly recommend it!

[@veselka16]

Thoroughly enjoyed this in depth discussion. I especially enjoyed the feelings associated with the topic. When the focus was on real financials the feelings I got were positive yet the stress when human control invaded the natural order. How beautiful the depth of thinking here! Thank you so much for sharing all the thoughts and it’s progression.

[@aidendrake11]

I'm so glad Dr. Peterson is having a conversation like this. Absolutely phenomenal.

[@hellogoodbye4728]

Dr. Peterson, This is among the best of your podcasts to date. I was totally engaged with the concepts of monetary policy, economics, and commodities. I am an investor so I definitely got something out of this. Keep more of these coming!

[@JD..........]

It's refreshing to see interviewees who can stand up to JBP intellectually, and offer things he hasn't heard before. I like this guy and his perspective.

[@FibiCharts]

no doubt sir you will be remembered as once of the great minds of the 20s

[@Bill-ws4ke]

This is one of the best conversations I have ever heard about money and value. I have listened to hundreds of hours of interviews and so on… Possibly thousands of hours. Iab

[@alirezaone]

It feels really good to watch Dr. Peterson listening to the interviewee more than talking.

[@e75short14]

This is probably the best video and guest of this channel has ever produced so far. Roy is definitely one of the shoulders of giants we are standing on.

[@RomaArmyMensRights.-]

✨Thank you for your love and support❤️ Leave me a direct msg for more info's....I have something essential to share that will change your financial life!!! LET'S CONVERSE👇

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

That's extremely hard to gauge, but he was certainly excited. And it was very informative

[@seamusbolton215]

Roy is impressive, but Jordan's ability to abstract information and understand subjects outside of his own field is incredible.

[@begie666]

Yep. Best Wookie I eVer seen 💜

[@devdaniel3225]

Does anyone have any idea which stocks may be experiencing major growth this new year season? A lot of people have been talking about a July bounce. I recently sold my Boca Grande, Florida, house, and I want to invest a lump sum before equities recover in the stock market. Is now a good time to buy or not?

[@danieljamal3709]

I'll suggest you find a mentor or someone with experience to guide you, especially in this recession. especially for your 401K, IRA and portfolio diversification.

[@veramonique1724]

I was left holding worthless positions in the market in 2020 because of these market uncertainties, which is why I don't base my market assessments and decisions on rumours and hearsay. Before I started noticing any noticeable improvements in my portfolio, I had to fully redesign it with the assistance of an advisor; I've been working with the same advisor and have scaled up to 750k

[@devdaniel3225]

True, we’re only just a piece of information away from amassing wealth, I know a lot of folks that made fortunes from the Dotcom crash as well as the 08’ crash and I’ve been looking into similar opportunities in this present market, could this coach that guides you help?

[@veramonique1724]

Yes, My mentor *MARTHA ALONSO HARA* has extensive training and knowledge in the financial industry. She is regarded as an authority in the field and has an in-depth understanding of portfolio diversification. I advise doing more study on her credentials. She is a great resource for anyone looking to understand the financial market because of her extensive experience.

[@devdaniel3225]

Thanks for the advice. The search for your coach was simple. and before contacting her, I did extensive research on her credentials. She seems to have a high degree of skill based on her resume, and I appreciate the chance to chat with her

[@RunBayou]

I'll have to listen to this 2 or 3 more times. Dense, deep, and fascinating

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

Personal notes are useful

[@wintermatherne2524]

This conversation has a dense specific gravity.

[@knowledgelover2736]

Love Jordan’s questions. He is learning by getting questions wrong. Those are more educational than right questions

[@Whatishappeningworld]

'When money is gold cooperation between people and nature is sustainable.' Makes perfect sense.

[@stoggafllik]

Yea. For kikes like him

[@Whatishappeningworld]

@@stoggafllik do something with your life!

[@TheRcDrake]

Brilliant guest. Huge fan of yours Dr. Peterson but there were times in this conversation where it seemed like you could have let him speak more. Thank you for making conversations like this available to us. I deeply appreciate everything you do.

[@Aquestfortruth]

I have always liked pretty much all of his podcasts, lectures, and interviews. I think he really shines when talking with intellectuals such as Roy Sebag, he seems positively giddy talking with him.

[@LikeTearsInTheRain]

You are absolutely right, I was just thinking that he seems pretty excited talking to him.

[@Valerieunchained]

I was thinking that myself. 🤔 LOL 😆

[@DavidBreneisen]

Loved the discussion of the farmer as prerequisite and fundamental to the market economy.

[@nicholusradcliffe3290]

Getting a lot of Atlas Shrugged vibes from this conversation. The rationality of tying one's standard of economic value to tangible assets with physical properties that lend themselves that function seems self-evident. The removal of that standard has so obviously played an essential role in the voluntary enslavement of free societies over the past 100 years. The natural order will absolutely assert its correction. I can only hope that civilization will survive the process. Thank you both for this conversation. It was very interesting and refreshing to hear.

[@nebojsavlahovic8214]

It's the first time I've heard of this gentleman and he quite impressed me with his knowledge of balance. I think he is still investigating it, but you can see that he dug deep. It can also be seen that he carefully selected the literature, which is very important in my opinion. He is certainly on the threshold of reaching high consciousness if he continues on that path, no doubt about it.

[@stephenuhe9229]

I have saved this video after watching because there are some real gems in this conversation. Ty J.P.🥂

[@joelcarini1796]

This feels like peeking in on a conversation straight from the 70’s. Love the decor! 😂

[@michaeltiller694]

Great Thinkers are increasing every day because of people like you guys. Thank You.

[@cravenmoore7778]

I love the way he keeps bringing in Benjamin Graham. I met Mr. Graham in my youth, kept my mouth shut, and my ears open

[@ayala7282]

Yes! Thank you for talking about money and how it works! Keep it coming it's very helpful to hear this wisdom

[@donaldmccullough9129]

I've been compelled to watch 4 times now and each time I leave satisfied, having gotten closer to what's luring me. I overcame my hesitancy to invest in gold, after the first viewing, and I have been calmly grounded as a result. No doubt I will watch again. I thank you both!!

[@JaxVideos]

Holding those first bits of bullion is a revelation, isn't it? If you'd like to move the world toward a gold standard of money, consider what Keith Weiner is doing by delivering a Yield on Gold, in Gold.

[@SmithsnMoz]

Silver should be $200 an ounce... minimum! 😮

[@blueeyedbull67]

What an interesting and fantastic discussion. I am a deist and, therefore, agree with Mr. Sebag's premise that the more we decouple from the natural world the more unproductive, lost and chaotic our society becomes and, also, spirituallycorrupt as well. I just ordered a copy of the book.

[@thousandaireradio3199]

It’s nice seeing Jordan Peterson healthy and enthusiastic.

[@alexjayschimel]

This podcast blew my mind on all levels of analysis!

[@stoggafllik]

Probably cause you don’t have one in the first place.

[@pj61114]

GREAT to see Jordan Peterson interview this topic with Roy Seabag; evoking much food for thought.❤🎉

[@damianochoa8295]

Please have Roy on again! Such a good interview. The world (especially this country) needs more financial literacy and more smart people who are able to articulate themselves so that the rest of us can understand these principles at a fundamental level. Great interview by you as well. Please do a follow up interview!

[@yogamama1879]

This was an amazing discussion. I have never heard anything like this, but it just feels so logical, clear, and true on a deep level. It clears through all the fluff and all the smoke and mirrors of complexity around this topic and reveals the heart of the madness. Thank you so much for sharing this conversation. I immediately ordered the book after watching. Looking forward to gaining more wisdom on this topic.

[@alamine6214]

thanks for intriguing my brain as always Dr. jordan peterson and introducing us to a fascinating thinker

[@melchizedekagudze262]

I'm 23 now and when I turned 20, some life events led me into questioning the flow of money in the larger commercial world and how the world is structured around this. I was also led into questioning the relation between the nature of the commercial world, how money flows, and how it's interrelated with my university education. One day I came across the name Adam Smith in an entrepreneurship lecture and fast forward I chanced on his book "AN ENQUIRY INTO THE WEALTH OF NATIONS" then I felt how people in the past have thought like I'm doing which is very interesting and insightful. DR. JORDAN PETERSON, I look up to you so much and hoping to meet you someday. From Ghana 🇬🇭 ♥.

[@jonathanlance2166]

When listening to Dr. Jordan Peterson one learns about a new topic and also learns the conversational beauty of the English language.

[@JJP937]

The intellect of Jordan Peterson in unfathomable by my small brain, a great mind

[@ExpensivePizza]

Wonderful talk. I've been studying what is money and the history of money for the last 3 years so this was right up my alley. It's remarkable to see how quickly Jordan learns new concepts. Much faster than me for sure.

[@justsomeguywithoutamustang6436]

Thanks for this Dr. Peterson and Mr. Sebag, learned some very good ideas.

[@anahitakatrak5995]

Always a pleasure to listen to Mr. Roy Sebag

[@teboholenela4268]

My take from individuals like Roy Sebag is that they really go deeper into the etymology of words because words have intrinsic meaning that affect our imagination and perception.

[@nirtheart]

This is the best interview on the topic of economics I have ever seen. It is extraordinary how similar my view on economics is to this guest's

[@Mmmmkaaay]

The value we place on gold, even in our modern times, has always fascinated me.

[@MotivationHubOfficiall]

People value historical things yk.

[@fr.minchfabio]

When it is clear it must be short. We should read this book! The discussion helps us to comprehend it. Thanks a million!

[@Eve.n.t_horizon]

This video was so dense with value, that its extremely apt to say it was GOLD.

[@pranjalsisodia5003]

For my own reference- 8:53 9:43 I always marvel at people's ability to stop their thought's momentum (train of thought) and shift focus to listening to the other individual. 12:09 17:07 Creative destruction 19:23 Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - Book by Robert M. Pirsig 1:32:06

[@abechung4738]

This was SUPER interesting to listen and to observe. Mr. Sebag is insanely sharp in his intuition, soft-spoken in his cutting ideas. Dr. Peterson was constantly unpacking Mr. Sebago's de-facto statements the way Rogan would reiterate "for the listeners who don't see it". Thank you Dr. Petrson for being the conduit for us listeners who learn so much from amazing people you bring in to teach us. 감사합니다.

[@ctruthlyfe4452]

Yes, I need an interpreter on such topics with such braniacs!

[@erikwurgler]

AMAZING episode. Speak to Thomas Sowell next please, while you can. He is a titan within the realm of economics and cultural history.

[@MrKen59]

What’s interesting is how Gold is stored for its value rather than using gold for something of value. This is a very interesting discussion and I appreciate the conversation.

[@cazzac4817]

That's kind of the point it has less perishability than most commodities and is rarer (therefore more labour intensive). as well historically there was also little you could use gold for it was heavy but soft meaning it was good for little more than ornaments. Now obviously gold has a much higher use value.

[@kennyblobbin]

I really can’t believe this conversation just happened!! AMAZING. Thankyou!!

[@pwrmvs247]

Excellent discussion! Roy’s points are very compelling.

[@jmat8762]

Great ideas from Mr Sebag, but I'd challenge him on a few things, two biggest points are 1. Moving most workers back to working the land would eliminate massive amounts of specialization in our western economy, which would impoverish us. Most people work the land in most parts of Africa and they are poor partly because of lack of specialization. And 2. the idea of using birthrates as a better proxy of economic wellbeing in an economy makes no sense because the more poor a group of people, the higher the birth rate per capita, and inverse for more wealth people; birth rates drop with more wealth

[@SpencerMack]

Amazing conversation. Jordan was so excited he kept cutting his first off. It’s great to see and hear from someone Jordan appreciates so much. What an important conversation.

[@camikazi2737]

I wish I could meet you Dr.Peterson! You’re such a fantastic influence with a fascinating mind. So grateful to be able to listen to your lectures and interviews! With great respect, A young wife and mother

[@justin_mariaheverett9868]

This wife and mother too!

[@geico1975]

So true, when he talked about the "quality" of life and tangible things have drastically declined. As a matter of fact, I'm no craftsman per se but I do love working with my hands making things from wood. In fact, I've built my own shelves, bookcase, bed, and coffee table so far. Of course, I wouldn't claim that some King would want it, but it is smooth, level, plumb and built strong. In my opinion, it looks as good as any piece of furniture one could buy from Big Lots, Walmart, Costso, etc..., and it's 3 or 4 times as strong and durable every part of it has real wood, the kind that needs cut and sanded with a few different grits (for smoothness) and then finished with a few coats of paint or stain. Besides my tools including hand tools, I probably spent 3 or 4 times less than at some store, but I did have to do the work, but I love it:)

[@ScottlandShaffner0423]

That's awesome! Real work, real craftsmanship.

[@rathelmmc3194]

My issue with his position in that regard is everything he talks about in regards to "quality" still exists. You just have to go find it and it's crazy expensive. Even grocery stores have tremendous variety if you go to the expensive ones. I'm not convinced that forcing money to a gold standard would change this.

[@ashleyh.2523]

This podcast made me think of Clayton Christensen, who developed the theory of disruptive innovation. Christensen often described the bookcase in his Harvard faculty office, which contained various books about management theories. He kept places open on the shelf where he believed there were not yet satisfactory, workable theories on effective management. One of those empty places was metrics. I can't help but wonder if The Natural Order of Money might have filled that space on Christensen's shelf? If nothing else, I'm intrigued and will be reading it. Thanks for an intriguing podcast!

[@itsunoshiyuga]

loved this conversation. Jordan seemed genuinely interest in the topic and was achieving Roy's undiscovered information while listening. He is great at making right questions to probe for deeper meaning of other peoples worldviews

[@randallsawyer4133]

Thank you for this interview! You mentioned Tupe's "Superabundance" more than once. You did not - however - mention Temple Grandin. I would say that Grandin's concern for the decline in hands-on-skills and Roy Sebag's concern for the decoupling of money from nature - and their calls to attention for proposed action - are fruit of the same tree! I ordered Sebag's book before the interview was over.

[@nicolegoddard4375]

I agree. After our money was no longer backed by gold, everything in economics has been this slow decline instead of growth. With corporations owning farms, etc. all we have seen is them essentially raping the land. Even our food contains way less nutrients than before all of this.

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

I don't want to jump on the pile, but you are correct. One of several patterns

[@sdrawkcabUK]

JP interviewed Grandin quite recently and they discusses this issue

[@Evan-rx6cj]

@@nicolegoddard4375 What do you mean "way less nutrients"? Sure, new foods exist that are low in vitamins/minerals but high in macronutrients... but the old foods (i.e. basic agricultural commodities) are as nutritious as ever.

[@geo6892000]

@@Evan-rx6cj That simply is not true. Modern farming techniques with the use of chemicals, is literally killing off all of the microorganisms that live in the soil that produce the nutrients that end up in our food. The soils on these large scale farms are dead. If you grow a 'cabbage' in your back yard it will contain far more nutrients that the same cabbage grown industrially. That is a truth that is easily verifiable.

[@diyalectic52]

This talk was wonderful to follow, they both spoke so eloquently. Thank you both for giving us this knowledge. It's amazing how they can make a person, like me, who really struggled with finance and economic classes in uni, get into an attentive reverie-like mode listening to them on those topics, picturing everything they're talking about.

[@jenamirgholi6004]

economics and finance are not supposed to be complicated. that's why many of the books are not written right?

[@barbaraherda9212]

Brilliant interview. First time I’ve heard of Roy Sebag. Imho, this man is spot on. He doesn’t have all the answers, but his assessment and opinions of the past up to today is lucid. So lucid that it shows light on the path forward. Let the system collapse people. Protect yourself & loved ones, it’s all we can do. There’s nothing to save cause the system inherently has no money in it, it’s a debt palace. We do NOT need a gold standard, just start using gold & silver as money. It’s that simple. What will be complex is watching it collapse.

[@roccoforte6889]

This interview is indeed incredibly great and essential to listen to, the discussion is undertaken at a really in-depth level and touches on the right topics to consider in order to progress as individuals psychologically, socially, financially, i.e. as essential parts of a natural order of life, nature, within human communities, etc. Which defines how our economies, financial, social and political structures, etc.should operate... and the in-depth insights and analysis Jordan offers definitely add substance to the topic of the natural order of economics and how other elements complete it

[@creativeideator]

Thank you for the high-quality video and content, as much as the format. Very engaging and entertaining.

[@Lokipower]

A lot of wisdom to think about here. Thank you for making this discussion available.

[@LenSklogW]

Thank you Jordan. I've been stuck between the triaparthide torments of Douglas Rushkoff's 'Google Bus' book, a fountain of Misean and Objectivist justifications for 'stored value' and Greenspan's memoirs. I own a gold miner in my portfolio but am looking forward to this book as I have not ever owned gold. I have recently been convinced by an Objectivist argument on the legitimacy of patent law in property considerations but this looks like the beginning of an understanding of money. Something I've sought for 30 years or so. The book should be here in a couple weeks. Once again, thank you for doing this.

[@TXLionHeart]

This is one of the best interviews you've done, Jordan; thank you!

[@bachilafo]

Brilliant interview!! thank you to you both !

[@fletchergull4825]

One of the best interviews I've seen on this channel

[@muradm7748]

Everytime take a shot when Dr. Peterson say "In some real sense".

[@PaperGrape]

What a delight, that Dr. Peterson was somehow able to procure a podcast opportunity with Mr. Rogers!! But honestly, I had felt that the podcast had become somewhat stale (for me) in some of its ideas, but this brilliant guest and the delightful, rooted conversation was enthralling. This is where I find Jordan at his best, with the best guests, hanging neck-and-neck, completing each others' sentences, enjoying a sentence from a book. Jordan has become so accessible that I forget how ridiculously intelligent and learned he is.

[@goldstandard3714]

As the credits roll and movie night comes to a close, I frequently exclaimed to my wife (God rest her beautiful soul) after a particularly bad "B" movie "Baby, you sure can pick 'em!" This episode fascinated me from beginning to end on a subject I had already surrendered to likely being a complete waste of my time. Not entirely true because when Jordan Peterson is involved, there is always anywhere from a nugget to a truckload of nuggets of wisdom to be gleaned. Where the UFC can hold me at the edge of my seat, you had me firmly committed to 2 hours of fascinating deep couch relaxation. Thank you, Jordan and Roy. Mr. Peterson, you sure can pick 'em!