The Neurotypicals are SO NOT OKAY

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[@imautisticnowwhat]

Are the neurotypicals okay today? You might also enjoy: Are Autism Moms REALLY That Bad?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHyxdqqihqicbcU Hope you’re having a good week and not feeling like JUNK! 😂 Lots of love 💛🐥

[@ishaalimtiaz6715]

Day 2 of rudely asking where you get your BEAUTIFUL novelty earrings from

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

​@ishaalimtiaz6715 Day 1 of politely supporting your search for an answer to your inquiry.

[@etcwhatever]

​@@ishaalimtiaz6715 i have a thing for novelty earrings and dress shirts with unusual patterns so i feel your pain 😂❤😂

[@katzenbekloppt2412]

If this Video would be my only clue - no, they are definitlynot okay. But I don't want to help them out🤪

[@ebwarg]

Does it just say “YES”?

[@crystalokeefe197]

"Please stop trying to make eye contact with me. I find it rude and distracting."

[@slamislife74]

no perceiving pls :(

[@etcwhatever]

I would think theyre s€xu@lly harassing me. 😂 and yes i find it rude indeed

[@HauntedCadaver]

I need this on a shirt 😂

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

​@@HauntedCadaver me too hahah

[@cammie49]

😂😂😂

[@AllanPowell]

Imagine them doing this for any other disability. "My friend is paralyzed so when he is sitting for too long I start to pick up him and make him stand so we can be eye to eye when talking"

[@sprowett1402]

Lol I felt kinda awful finding this so funny. But I could picture it in my mind. 😂 As someone who has mobility issues along with autism… it made me laugh… especially at the thought of them flipping their head back and forth while trying to hold on to my waistband and holding me up while trying to meet MY eyes! 😂😂😂❤

[@stillnotstill]

They do that with other disabilities including physical ones. For example people will literally take mobility aids away from people....

[@juliaboskamp9666]

I have a feeling that somewere in the world some karen is already doing this

[@zellalaing5439]

I feel so bad this amused me.

[@TurbopropPuppy]

@@stillnotstill yeah like i've seen this all the time with people who need crutches also people literally use "using crutches" as a derogatory insult like can society not be slightly less ableist

[@shining_valoka]

It is WILD that the most "severe" option is to communicate the issue and understand the reason the person doesn't look at you. You're suposed to assume everything. Direct communication is "the last resort". The neurotypicals are not okay at all.

[@sarahblack9333]

Behaving like a functioning adult is an *extreme last resort*

[@jclyntoledo]

Honestly this is so accurate 😂😭

[@mangledfoxy2052]

Ikr?? I’m the total opposite, I prefer to just be upfront about communication

[@GItoKeG]

Yeah...why the fuck is she making communication so complicated???? If someone seems distracted, you just ask, if they say they're good I'm like...aight cool *continues to talk*.

[@karowolkenschaufler7659]

and I have had conversations with neurotypical people who told me that talking to me was easier than talking to other people... I assume for exactly that reason. maybe even the neurotypicals get bullied by a very small group of specific neurotypicals. sort of at the end of the spectrum of being neurotypical. and they are pushing their wild ideas on everyone. but because those ideas are seen as the norm you should live up to... a lot of people don't dare to say that they actually don't like it. yes, this is a consperacy theory.

[@Kassidar]

"it's basically looking over someone's head to see if there's someone better to talk to" I love when people make an observation and then take 1 of infinite interpretations of that observation (usually the first negative one they can come up with) and then treat it as if it's both correct and the only possibility.

[@RPGLover87]

In her case they probably are doing that, but anyone would she seems like she'd suck to hang out with.

[@triciad4100]

"If it bothers you that your friend doesn't make eye contact, just manipulate them until you've conditioned them to behave the way you want! Train them like a dog!" That's funny, because it bothers ME when people play mind games or dance around a subject instead of just saying what they mean. Should I be getting out the dog treats for them?

[@Theratsintrenchcoat]

And that same channel has a video on how to handle a micromanager. I mean, I guess it's good they're giving tips on how to handle themselves?

[@karoliinakilpelainen3325]

So dehumanizing for real

[@thewrongsorcerer]

The whole eye contact thing is completely cultural. In Japan, if you tried to make eye contact the way people in English-speaking countries expect you to, they'd find it creepy and threatening

[@user-qu1yp8bh8c]

Yes! And this is true for so many things. Something that is seen as "healthy" normal and polite behaviour in one country can be seen as unpleasant and rude in another.

[@marocat4749]

And the overly fake smiles i would connect to cults, north koreastyle dictatorships, and the weird american over the top fake looking forced smiles. There ispolite and soft smiling, and there is that.

[@rosepuppy1984]

My dad has mentioned this. He’s a teacher at a school with a majority of Asian and black students. We also have many family friends who are Korean. He quickly realized the whole eye contact thing

[@MrIgorkap]

Same for a lot of Eastern Europe.

[@RobertDeCaire]

Americans in particular are absolute fiends about eye contact for some reason. And they have no idea how utterly bizarre their fixation on it is. And Americans are much more likely to do what this woman is doing and making everything about themselves, without any regard for anyone else's comfort or social standards. Murica!

[@cashargis6950]

I'm taking an extremely ableist "Interpersonal Communications" class right now in college. There is a lot about eye contact and other very NT American centric communication stuff. The textbook says that every culture thinks eye contact is important and that it means "trustworthiness" universally. It's not at all universal. I hate it here.

[@LunarOverdrive]

i love seeing people talk about how "woke" colleges are and then hearing about stuff like this that completely contradits that.

[@kierstenburtz8442]

​@@LunarOverdrive oh yeah! The most ableist class I had was an intro to psych class. The most racist class I had was an intro to sociology class. The most sexist, homophobic, etc. class I had was a class on television as popular culture. All the classes people claim are indoctrinating young people into "woke" mindsets are actually filled with horribly bigoted professors a lot of the time. I can't tell you how much my blood fucking boiled when we started talking about ADHD (my brand of neuro-spicy) in my intro psych class and the Prof actually said "8 year old boys who can't sit still in class" and meant it to be an honest example and not an example of ADHD stereotyping.

[@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans]

Man in my psych intro class there was no discussion about abnormalities. It was online though so no lecture to talk about non curriculum things ​@@kierstenburtz8442

[@happysloth3208]

I took intercultural communications, I learned that in other cultures eye contact is not normal. It also talked about understand differences in communication.

[@happysloth3208]

⁠@@kierstenburtz8442 ironic, when I took intro to sociology, we learned a lot about anti racism. But honestly for the ADHD thing that type of stuff doesn’t bother me. Most of the literature nowadays is shifting towards including women and people of color. Edit: I have been diagnosed with ADHD, and I’ve dealt a lot with people even psychologists not being properly educated on ADHD. A lot of times that’s just how they were taught, and as someone’s who taking neuroscience courses the narrative is shifting away from that.

[@TheAleatoriorandom]

Nobody is truly okay, just different flavors of "wrong" getting through life as best we can

[@jessalynne484]

I feel like ND is when you use ALL the soda options at the fountain and create some sort of bastardized flavor 😂

[@citrinedreaming]

No eye contact when out to lunch can also be an adhd thing or a trauma response (scanning to see if there are threats) omg, that first lady is definitely not ok

[@emonighteverything4827]

I was going to comment about the same thing

[@GlenHunt]

PTSD here so I can say definitely a thing we do.

[@mostlyharmless1918]

I mean, yeah, that eye-contact lady needs to consider why she's so insecure when her conversation partners are not gazing hypnotically at her countenance.

[@tolstoy21]

Totally an ADHD thing. I can't deal with eye contact, especially when someone also invades my personal space. I also cannot successfully listen to someone without also doing something else -- work a rubiks cube (my preferred fidget) , check my email, scroll through photos on my phone, browse the web, etc. I'm sure I come off as 100% rude, but if I have to be still and look them in the eye, my mind will be overwhelmed with thoughts of how creepy and uncomfortable I find their eye contact, or my mind will just wander off onto some other subject and I'll have absolutely no idea what they are saying.

[@burkhardstackelberg1203]

​@@tolstoy21I connect a lot to that! According to screening questionnaires, I am Autistic + ADHD. I would a lot consider autistic traits in your case...

[@Mondomeyer]

You can always tell when a neurotypical isn't OK because they always want to make it your problem.

[@sarahw7616]

Projection

[@katycheckley]

pure gold!!😂

[@sharonjensen3016]

I'm over taking neurotypicals problems on board. I don't need it.

[@sksk-bd7yv]

Yes! It's so much easier to blaim us, since it's obviously allowed to bully us.

[@RobertDeCaire]

Someone should be researching a cure for neurotypicals. They're most of the reason why the world is the way it is.

[@DawnDavidson]

My mother seriously thought that my allergies were caused by me “not standing against Satan”. And that my daughter’s ADHD was caused by “curly electricity” from compact fluorescents. It was that last one that finally got me to realize that no, my mom was not ok, and I didn’t need to listen to her about so many things.

[@Nabium]

oi I've got shellfish allergies, so you're telling me all I need to do is find this guy Satan and stand against him? like lean on him? where do I find this dude?

[@cubicinfinity2]

I'm sorry. Sometimes people are just ignorant and that's not their fault.

[@nobody08088]

I hope she can bring herself back to reality

[@elainelouve]

ADHD here, when I say "we need to hang out some time" I really mean it, and look forward to it enthusiastically, but then forget about the whole thing, and 2 years later message you as if no time has passed.x)

[@earthaforester3141]

If someone wants you to make more eye contact because they perceive it as a sign of attention and respect, they could just say so instead of doing weird passive aggressive things.

[@imautisticnowwhat]

Exactly 😂

[@samara.morgan]

But it's still rude and selfish to force people to look into your eyes.

[@jfm14]

Right? If folks want to communicate more directly with someone, they should just y'know... communicate directly.

[@jfm14]

​@@samara.morgan True, but bringing it up can at least open the conversation and give the other person a chance to explain that they're not comfortable with eye contact.

[@Flopsi80]

​@@jfm14 There is nothing to explain. I don't like it, they have to live with it like I have to live with all of their bullshit.

[@BilliesCraftRoom]

That woman in red, I want to give her a card (conflict avoidance and my words hide). The card would say 'You expectations of me are yours, not mine. I did not choose them, I do not share them. Your expectations of me are NOT a to do list for me.'

[@mika161ultrainstinct]

Just commenting so I can find this again later

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

​@@mika161ultrainstinct Good idea! The card idea is excellent ❤ (heart)

[@heli0ns]

Yeah idk, I think a person who demands eye contact to that level as the woman in the red shirt insists.... just comes off as incredibly insecure or entitled. (Or both.)

[@clover7837]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023i do this in class when there is a substitute teacher. before attendance is called i’ll write a note saying what my legal name is but that i go by my preferred name. it’s so much easier for me than having to be deadnamed or going up and telling them myself.

[@mikemichaels4500]

Do I have your permission to print that card? I'm going to need quite a few copies.

[@dacksonflux]

It always seemed like everyone takes friendship for granted and it used to really hurt my feelings. They act like friends aren't a limited resource as it is for me. When I start to connect with someone, that feels like capturing lightning in a jar. For most people, however, that must be a common occurrence.

[@diarmuidkuhle8181]

No. Plenty of neurotypical people are lonely and have trouble making and keeping friends. They might be very shy, or have had bad things happen to them that made them anti-social or frightened to interact etc.

[@Brakvash]

Here in Scandinavia we either have aquintances or a few select friends. I believe it's a cultural thing. Here it's completely okey to have "enough friends" and not accept any more "friend applications". It makes for more long-term friendships.

[@CaptainChainsaw2]

The biggest problem with neurotypicals is the assumption that everyone is neurotypical

[@ishbelharris1857]

Absolutely. And even if they know you are autistic they still expect you to behave and interact neurotypical.

[@CaptainChainsaw2]

@ishbelharris1857 I recently self diagnosed and now realise why I've been treated so badly over the years. People really reveal who they are. Gaslight all my life too "What's so different about you?!?!?!?". Honestly to me it seems like they go about their day as if you don't exist even if you're physically present in their company. I used to think it's just "the cool kids" and that's how they treat others not in their circle but now I'm more convinced its just neurotypicals. They are like robots in a sense, programmed to disregard those that don't fit their worldview.

[@ishbelharris1857]

@@CaptainChainsaw2I finally got a diagnosis last year in an attempt to find out what's wrong with me and fix it before I get really old and need social care. I've been circumspect who I've told but by far the worst reaction was from my neurotypical mother and sister. They still think I'm difficult and weird, make no effort to understand, and expect me to keep masking hard so that they feel comfortable, regardless of the stress and mental exhaustion it causes me. It would be really great, even if just once, neurotypicals had to mask as ASD1 in their daily lives and interactions.

[@CaptainChainsaw2]

@ishbelharris1857 That's so sad that your mother and sister aren't helping. My family haven't exactly been much help so far. Has a diagnosis helped you? I noticed that there is discrimination against this condition in some countries. So getting a diagnosis may make it more difficult to move country. I'm not convinced a diagnosis would help at the moment. I'm not sure if I ever really masked, guess that's why its caused me problems all my life. Dating advice like "just be yourself" never worked, I wonder why. Advice that came from neurotypicals.

[@rhettbaldwin8320]

The CDC estimates that the world wide population of people with ASD is 1%. So neurotypical people assume everyone is neurotypical because 99% of people ARE.

[@samara.morgan]

The eye contact woman is such a creep. And very ableist.

[@dorothyallspice1862]

Yeah, and she’s scaring me. She has an intimidating aura.

[@samara.morgan]

@@dorothyallspice1862 She would be a hellish parent.

[@pemanilnoob587]

@@dorothyallspice1862probably that ginormous gummy smile

[@ixykix]

Top level discrimination and ableism!

[@applechoco483]

And the way her eyes are moving around that energetically. Not to mention that her face doesn't match her calm tone of voice at ALL! Just pick one or the other, I don't know how to feel and it's creeping me out! Jeez!!!

[@TyWorth]

Every one one of those tips from the first woman would have made me an anxious mess if someone did them to me. "Why are you smiling every time I glance at you, are you gonna kill me!?"

[@imautisticnowwhat]

😂

[@CoolSkeleton-nk7dk]

Yeah, her smile is fuckin creepy

[@nosuchanimal6947]

that smile gave me terminator 2 "learning how to smile" vibes 😬

[@GoingSwimmingly]

I’d just start staring back too hard and revalue why I’m even interacting with the clown in front of me- Or deadass look disturbed outright, _if you wanna start acting like a clown you may as well feel like it_

[@necordektox879]

Yeah that's not an incentive. It's just confusing and creepy. She was probably one of those weirdos who got extremely upset about not showing off her smile back when face masks were commonly worn.

[@cupfulofeathers]

Thank you for clarifying that you don’t think all religious people are like that horrible pastor. I’m an autistic Christian and most Christians I know don’t think that autism is demonic or sin related, but I know that hasn’t always been the case. I looked up that pastor and it looks like he’s been fired from a school board, fortunately. I’m so sorry to anyone who has been told awful things by so called Christians! That’s not what Jesus is all about. Greatest video as always! 😊

[@DoubleACbg]

“Overhead gazer”… I heard “overhead geezer” and I thought “Does this eye-contact woman think that the bass player for Black Sabbath is lurking about?”.

[@blueredingreen]

4:50 The weirdest part of this is that she literally acknowledges that some people really struggle with making eye contact. Like, she literally admits that she thinks she "deserves" something some people would really struggle to provide, and that them not doing it is "super dismissive and rude". How entitled can you be...

[@zyqa]

I hope she realizes that we dont enjoy having to do that either... Id love more than anything to be able to stare strangers directly in the eyes without an ounce of anxiety present.

[@ExplosionMare]

Wait til she goes to a place where eye contact is considered rude.

[@pemanilnoob587]

Like it’s SO hypocritical She’s literally just giving you a tutorial on how to be rude and dismissive

[@Alba-pc6bz]

5:05 😂😂😂 absolutely! That s some natural friendly behaviour, wtf 😂😂😂 You don t want to talk to that mad woman. I would wonder what is her deal... How would anyone understand what she even wants 😂😂😂

[@Alba-pc6bz]

7:45 "you do not deserve my eyeballs" 😂😂😂 Nah, I ll keep them to myself 😂😂😂 Honestly, I would end up staring at her, like not daring to BLINK, wtf. Then, i would politely finish dinner. Then, I d ghost her 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[@Stain73]

I'm being attacked by demons. This will be my new answer if people ask why I am weird.

[@ButterflyRebekah]

But then, caring people would actually get worried for you and try to help you, pray over you, or give you tips about spiritual warfare.

[@Stain73]

@ButterflyRebekah I don't have that many religious people around me. But you are right maybe I should be careful when I know a person is a theist.

[@Unwit213]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@dmgroberts5471]

Just say "demons," and don't elaborate further. Let them try and work out the context themselves. Lol.

[@Stain73]

@@dmgroberts5471 That sounds awesome.

[@Andreamom001]

12:36 I’m a Christian, and that “preacher” infuriates me. Autistic people, people with Down Syndrome, people with birth defects, people with spina bifida, people with anything…they are not “junk”!!!!! Yes, I believe God made them, and yes, I believe God loves them-just as they are! We all have something to deal with in life, some challenge, and we all are valuable, we all are precious to God. ETA: Anyone with a basic knowledge of Christian theology knows there are other reasons people have challenges in life. We live in a fallen world (meaning it is imperfect and a place where things go wrong-in contrast to heaven where there will be no sickness, sorrow, loss, misunderstanding, division…)

[@arianewinter4266]

Literally nothing gives christianity a worse Image then christianity itself . . . The catholic church trying to keep the Image pristine and believers acting Like critique IS a sin do more damage then aknowlaging and punishing Bad behavior would . . . . I Always feel sorry for the reasonable people WHO get a Lot of positive Things through their belief and Just want the best for everyone for getting tainted by association with sometimes outright monsters WHO abuser Religion as an excuse and shield

[@a_little_demon]

​@@arianewinter4266 the religion itself is not the problem. it's some awful people that follows the religion, that are the problem. don't blame the religion, blame the awful people.

[@orion.the.pathman]

my secondary school had (probably still have, but I'm not there anymore) a rule where if you were answering a question the whole class had to look at you, and you had to make eye contact with the teacher. if you failed to do this you would be punished for it. it was one of the most blatantly ableist rules in that place (and there was a lot of ableism). it was appalling and it made functioning in lessons impossible for me.

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

tf? I frequently answered questions in school but I wouldn't have under those circumstances... Like wth?

[@orion.the.pathman]

@@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240 yeah it was ridiculous. I engaged well in lessons but when this rule got put in place I just stopped completely.

[@casanovafunkenstein5090]

That's nightmare fuel, what the fuck were they thinking? I cannot believe anyone would have been comfortable having an entire room full of people turn to stare at you whilst you're compelled to make unbroken eye contact with an authority figure and answer a question. It's like they designed it to be as uncanny and weird as possible. How do the people who set these rules not realise that they're absolute freaks?

[@uniquechannelnames]

That's so goddamn weird

[@JokerFace090]

Sounds like some 1984 dystopian sci-fi to me.

[@ratrat9241]

as a neurotypical, the first lady is why i hate the idea of “etiquette.” all these social rules that are supposed to make people feel welcome but are really just pretentious and exclusive edit; you guys should be aware that following etiquette like this is still important in a lot of contexts (whether or not it should be). elderly people care about it, and it makes you look good in a job interview

[@deusex9731]

My mom always scolded me when i didnt do all this surface level etiquette. I havent been diagnosed with autism and i dont think i have it and even for me, it always made more sense to adapt things like that. These things function differently from culture to culture anyway, so why make it so hard internally. If someone needs to stare at a wall to talk to me, cause otherwise ots sensory overload, then so be it

[@marocat4749]

A fair bit might cone even from classism.

[@marukochan13]

Exactly!

[@eleSDSU]

@@marocat4749 As someone who had etiquette lessons, it's all classist bs. Manners are about politeness, etiquette is about being pompous.

[@user-bz3kd2mt3u]

depends on the rule imo, unless you are _defining_ "etiquette" as being those social rules which are unlikely to receive universal support from those they directly affect. For example, while the general rule "don't start speaking until the current speaker is finished speaking" will create many issues (In NYC English there's a subtle cue regarding pitch that invites you to start speaking before the current speaker has _technically_ finished producing noise, and in Japanese I hear a constant stream of small filler words called "back-channeling" from the listener is expected), I think that "don't start a new clause while the another speaker is in the middle of a clause" is likely to receive universal assent.

[@like90]

That lady talking about eye contact is really aggressive, in my opinion. As an autistic, that would make me cry and would want to escape that conversation. It's just too much and I hate it

[@lindac6919]

She's a creep. Just think how much fun she must be at a dinner party! I'll bet the entire table hates her after 5 minutes, and they avoid her eyes and hope she leaves.

[@LilChuunosuke]

If she did even one of those things to me, I'd message her after lunch and let her know i don't think our friendship is going to work! It's so manipulative and selfish. Treating her "friends" like dogs to mold them into the personality she wants.

[@nic00001]

she reminds me of really mean teachers i had growing up who didn’t understand that i had social anxiety and thought they could magically force me into being comfortable with the things they’re already comfortable with

[@iantaakalla8180]

That person looks like an animal ready to pounce if you don’t look at that person back. And honestly, considering how aggressive she is, she may as well.

[@lindac6919]

She sounds like No-Fun Friend!@@LilChuunosuke

[@RichardRemer]

That "reward eye contact" lady comes off as a needy sociopath.

[@jessalynne484]

For real. Would avoid with extreme prejudice. If you are making me uncomfortable when we talk, I just won't talk to you anymore as a whole. Simple as.

[@ObsidianCrane]

Woman on screen for 9s: Her staring into the camera makes me uncomfortable. The releif when you cut back to yourself was palpable.

[@ruisenor8993]

Felt that

[@JonBrase]

5:16 That smile comes across to me as either manic or deceptive. My thought wouldn't be "I'm being rewarded" so much as either "what's wrong with you?" or "what are you trying to get from me?".

[@lindac6919]

Yeah, that would be creepy to me. And like, who are YOU to reward me? Like throwing a fish to a performing seal.

[@Flopsi80]

She looks like a psychopath.

[@pemanilnoob587]

There’s a reason smile dog is so terrifying

[@kobudo]

It would be even weirder if you asked “what are you trying to get from me” and they chose THAT moment to stop being manipulative, start being honest, and they reply, “eye contact.”

[@unluckyomens370]

i think another thing that would concern me too is like that is the start of my weird facial contortions that happen when im like overwhelmed with any "high" emotion like fear excitement shit like that. my face kinda just does it no matter what i do but like that smile ios the first part then it kinda flips sideways its hard to explain long story short id think theyre either very happy or they want me to shut up and die

[@SanityVideo]

That first video is the creepiest most manipulative advice and it triggered all my trauma from how I was treated as a kid.

[@LilChuunosuke]

Yeah she reminded me of my abusive mother. Turns aggressive the second she's not the center of attention and makes you feel guilty for normal human behavior. If she was my friend, she'd only get to try that once before i ended the friendship

[@Alba-pc6bz]

That wouldn't be friendship to begin with.

[@noprosthesisforyoursoul]

100% same

[@whssy]

100% a toxic narcissist.

[@LimeGreenTeknii]

8:04 Are we sure she's not autistic? She really nailed that relatable feeling of saying something thinking it's positive and not realizing you committed a major social faux pas.

[@Genin99]

My wife and I are Autistic and one of the reasons why we're both Wiccan is, that Christianity came across as a bullying cult.

[@StarkRG]

"They'll get so annoyed with you looking over your shoulder that they'll stop overhead gazing." If I ever become aware that you're attempting to subliminally manipulate my social interaction too much I'm not going to adjust my social interaction to match what you expect (because I won't know what you expect, just that you expect it to be different) I'll just stop having social interactions with you altogether. If there's something I'm doing that's distracting or annoying _say something_ and I'll try to accommodate you.

[@LovePikaMusic]

I'd definitely just stop looking in the general direction of that person's face. They clearly get distracted by it so i'll just look at my hands or something

[@arianewinter4266]

This! If you make me wildly uncomfortable or percived traits I can't Help AS Rude I will spare US both the hassle and Just avoids you Like the plague

[@SaulsFamily]

The whole eye contact thing -- OMG if someone looked where I was looking or psycho-smiled at me, I would probably stop talking and try to find a way to escape the entire situation in the least rude way possible out of complete panic, and then never talk to them again.

[@irisrosenicholas5339]

I would definitely do that too

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

SAME!!!

[@foxliasgriffinYT]

reactions to my actions can scare me and intimidate me, same reason id end up not studying at home or play instruments doesnt mattrr if positive or negative, its stressful to have that pressure and anxiety you get

[@LadyLenaki]

I would think they were planning to murder me, leave and block them if their behavior shifted that dramatically and freakishly. I don't know if I'd leave politely or just leave as fast as possible.

[@dmgroberts5471]

It almost like they are expecting you to somehow understand the subjective reasons why they are doing those things, like you could read their mi- Oh...oh no...that's what they are doing, isn't it?

[@audreyability]

God this reminded me of my childhood. I was difficult to discipline, since I would flat out refuse to do things I didn't want to do if nobody explained why they needed to be done. My grandparents visited and told my parents that they just weren't disciplining me with enough determination. My parents went out for the evening and my grandparents served me broccoli as a side at dinner. I refused to eat it, so they told me I had to sit in the corner facing the wall until I ate my broccoli. Guess who sat silently in a corner facing a wall for five hours. I was 6. Punishment to reinforce a behavior is not effective.

[@FruityHachi]

not explaining stuff is so prevalent among parents, and especially boomer generation since they had absolutely no understanding of brain development and that children are not born with knowing the reasons behind doing something, that they aren't being stubborn/difficult on purpose but that they just don't understand

[@jellyzimmermann9688]

im autistic and i find smiles(with teeth) vaguely threatining i do not know why but if eye contact lady tries that on me i will just freeze up

[@mandarinsandclementines2997]

Personally teeth smiles aren't scary, but teeth smiles with FULLY OPEN UNMOVING EYES?? terrifying!

[@mr.potatobee2983]

Imagine your in a conversation with that lady, and you look away for one second and then notice she's stopped talking and you look back to see that she's grinning maniacally for no reason.

[@Weaklytune]

I'd be so scared lol

[@Liandra24]

If this was on purpose, and they were doing it like that, I would do the same, but not even fake emotion on my eyes. And stare at them in the eyes without breaking eye contact. If the interaction must be painful I won’t be the only one who suffers.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

Given that she's constantly wearing that carnivorous horse look, it's not surprising people don't want to make eye contact with her.

[@SiqueScarface]

Imagine a conversation between a German (constantly staring) and an American (constantly smiling back). It would be hilarious.

[@thetheelers8294]

Lmfao

[@Ahhhhht]

Eye contact is creepy and uncomfortably intimate and I’ll die on this hill

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

You have my bow!

[@tatiana4050]

I can only make eyecontact for staring competitions. Even with people I'm comfortable with, eye contact doesn't come naturally to me. At most I just check in on their face every so often. It feels weird to me to be looking at someone's face all the time you talk.

[@alexcapon3620]

Based

[@unluckyomens370]

absolutely like i will only make eye contact with people im really close with and only for a second or two when im trying to be really reassuring or comforting . I had an ex and whenever we cuddled i just gave him lots of tiny kisses usually hands or cheek and he asked me why and it was because the eye contact was uncomfortable. I liked him he was the the second person ive been in a car with who hasnt grumbled when i ask them to turn the music down a couple pips

[@Aajf-zz2jk]

I agree with the most people saying eye contact is distracting, but the reason I find it so uncomfortable is because of what you said: the level of intimacy. Why would I want to see all the personal things that a stranger is communicating through their eyes!

[@Skull_the_skellyton]

“Is everything okay? You’re not looking at me.” Why does that sound self-centered 😭

[@creativelibertiesweretaken3366]

I don’t *always* struggle with eye contact, but when I do it’s like trying to force two magnets together the wrong way. You manage to hold it on target for like a second before it gets deflected off to the side. Also, if I found out someone was trying to “train” me to make eye contact that would instantly make it 100x worse.

[@chocoboko123]

Its kind of interesting that autism is associated with difficulty communicating and poor social skills, but neurotypical society has so many weird hoops and thought gymnastics involved in everyday interactions that everyone is expected to just know, and outright telling someone what you want or need in a conversation is frowned upon, like you're expected to read each other's mind.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

Is not the same to know something as being concious of it than just doing it. I do not have to think about reading the other person’s body language. If they are sad and I look them in the eyes I would feel the sadness. As I study psychology I can now understand everything that goes into it, but in the interaction I do not have to know anything I just do things or feel things without even realizing it most of the time

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

I would agree that being upfront would be easier on everyone though

[@ic5889]

It's partially a cultural thing. When I moved from the Netherlands to Sweden it was quite a shock how indirect swedes are! Its a good thing I was ateenager at the time so social faux pas was a bit more accepted. But that directness is definitely a part of dutch culture I didnt appreciate enough until I was removed from it. Now to get the rest of the world on board...

[@ichbinben.]

It's like everyone's an olympic sprinter and when you just walk you have "difficulty moving".

[@chocoboko123]

​@@ic5889 That's true, I am thinking about it from an American cultural perspective since that's all I know.

[@hoodiegal]

The pizza thing at the end is baffling to me. "I'm going out to get pizza" - nowhere in there is there an invitation for me to tag along. This person is sharing something about their plans that they're excited about. I might say something like "nice! what's your favorite toppings?" because that's a way to engage with what they just shared with me, and show interest in what they're saying. but like. that's not an invitation. "I'm going out to get pizza, do you wanna tag along?" - that's an invitation. Neurotypicals are weird sometimes.

[@sarahr8311]

"I'm going to get pizza" could also mean "I'm politely ending the conversation by saying I'm going to go do something else". So confusing!

[@dioxideuniversal]

yeah i think that person just kinda sucks in particular. say what you want

[@annamayrand5483]

As far as I know, I’m NT and in no way would I ever assume I’m being invited to something unless someone outright asked me to come join…do people actually “passively invite” people this way? That sounds like a set up for so much confusion regardless of neurotype!

[@kateshiningdeer3334]

MUCH better to say "I'm going out for pizza - want to come along?" It doesn't make it "a date", it just makes it "friends going for food", at least in MY book. But people have gotten really weird about dating in the last few years, too...

[@kateshiningdeer3334]

@@annamayrand5483 Yes, yes they do. And it IS... It's so frustrating sometimes!

[@ellecapone1337]

Eye contact makes me wildly, *viscerally* uncomfortable. I hate that society expects this from people. :(

[@BenjaminEarlMusic]

I like to explain to people that "i sometimes make eye contact with my ears." I often point an ear at someone when I'm listening to them because thats the organ that I hear with.

[@aliceinwonderland8314]

I once got told off by a teacher for not looking up enough. 5 minutes later she tells me off for not writing any notes.

[@connellythompson7121]

... bruh- *facepalm*

[@necordektox879]

Sounds like she just had a bone to pick or was on a power trip.

[@unluckyomens370]

oh my god i had a professor in college who was like WHEN IM TEACHING YOUR ATTENTION IS ON ME NO BOOKS OR ELECTRONICS so i didnt take out my laptop for notes because like she said not to then later on in the year she was like "well you never take notes in my class" i just kinda sat there a little stunned I was withdrawing anyway so i just let it be

[@aliceinwonderland8314]

@@necordektox879 I lean towards bone to pick cos I think she realised not to tell me off for that again. The senior staff of that school, however, definitely had power trips. One time I was an hour late to school and had one of them tell me all about how I should get up earlier. Then all the people who don't walk as fast as me and we're also sitting on the train just outside the station for an hour(about 1/5 to 1/4 of the students) came in. Just slunk off without another word. Then there was that time we had a model UN thing, I put in the feedback I found it unaccessible and here are some suggestions to help with that. Got called into sixth form leader's office, got told they put a lot off effort into it and I was rude, started crying, then he had a class he needed to get to so I should clean up in the bathroom. Got found by a girl in the year above crying on the floor of the bathroom, got sent to the nurse room were I went a bit mute. Missed physics. He kept a wide distance from me after that, pretty easy since he never taught me. Never apologised or anything.

[@iahelcathartesaura3887]

That sounds like my mother. Call my wife. But she tries. She has struggles of her own but thank you for sharing this, because many people need to notice that's the pattern they're in with someone invasive and dysfunctional.

[@La.Le.Lu.]

Neurotypicals are sooo weird to me 😂😂😂 what a good day to be autistic

[@RynTheWitch]

100% agree 😂 proud autistic!!

[@babbagebrassworks4278]

I was in my 40s before I found out I was an Aspie. "Oh' I am the weird one and they are normal". Here I found my tribe.

[@kryssalou]

literalllyyyyyyyy

[@katzenbekloppt2412]

Yeah!!!

[@uniquechannelnames]

​@MagentaSoulstar as for the straightforward thing, NTs can say something that doesn't sound straightforward but has a lot of subtext that if understood, is straightforward. I know that's exactly what straightforward isn't but yeah it can be the exact kind of subtext that autistic people would totally miss. Secondly idk any of these people, but how do you know all those people were NT too? I'm ADHD and I can read people quite well and socialize with a wiiiide range of people comfortably but it can still be very hard. Are they just an NT, narcissitic, closet or fragile narc, ASPD, sociopathic, pathological liar, borderline, or a MIX yay!!

[@AvaFayIliza]

"How to get someone to make eye contact, let me show you how to passive aggressively gaslight them and make them uncomfortable." I don't genuinely don't understand why people give a shit about making eye contact. Anyway, thank you for the video! 💖 -Ava

[@riolunadraws]

oh man, I also had a teacher like that (who'd also bully me) he didn't want us to take notes and just look at him while he was talking and then was confused when no one or only few could remember what he was telling us. same teacher said that if everyone were like me, society wouldn't work. at that point in time, it really really hurt, like I was being called fundamentally useless just because I was struggling with history. later on I realize that yes, indeed. society thrives on individuality. which is why I'm glad the way I am and that everyone is themselves. no person exists twice and that's how it's possible to live together. we're NOT all doing the same thing

[@fleridanfox6150]

where did the eye contact thing even come from? among lots of mammals, especially primates, it's considered aggression. dogs will side-eye each other if they feel unsafe, threatening cats will stare with an intense, unblinking look, birds will immediately fly away upon being stared at. i will not stare intently at someones face because it feels like either i'm submitting or showing potential aggression. my intent of listening just becomes all the more complicated and insincere.

[@lordsrednuas]

It's not really about eyes staring into eyes, which is how it's often represented. It's about looking at the whole face in detail (which includes frequent glances at the eyes). If you look up Dr. Albert Mebrabian's work on communication, you'll find that only about 7% of a NT's communication is the actual words, with over 50% being in the body language and facial expressions (the rest being in tone, pitch, volume, etc.) That's why NTs think you're not paying attention if you don't look at their face, they are literally saying 5 times more with their expression than they are with their words. (No wonder NDs have to ask so many clarifying questions, when 93% of the message is hidden in a secret code).

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

@@lordsrednuas exactly! Specially when I know the other person they do not even need to talk and I know what they are going to say (most of the time). I do not consider myself 100% neurotypical (because I have a queer personality and self-diagnose ADHD) but in this case I get more the “NT side”

[@maxixe3143]

​@@anainesgonzalez8868 What is a "queer personality"?

[@jimwilliams3816]

@lordsrednuas Okay, that’s kind of scary. I tend to get imposter’s syndrome from thinking that maybe I’m not as terrible at cues as I am “supposed to be,” but..93% nonverbal? Does Mebrabian indicate that the success rate in decoding those signals is high? Wherever my skill level is, I cannot imagine that I can interpret anything close to that with any accuracy. And in fact it strikes me that most of my skills at picking up subtext are probably related to what people say, not visual feedback. Suddenly my imposter’s syndrome seems pretty silly...

[@lordsrednuas]

@@jimwilliams3816 Mebrabian's work is mostly on NT's. The success rate it pretty high NT to NT, it seems to be all over the place NT to ND. Which makes sense really with the huge diversity between NDs. Some are good at it, and some are terrible.

[@theedgeofoblivious]

I posted in the r/ShowerThoughts a post entitled "LPT: Autistic people are used to being excluded, and will not assume that you telling them about an activity is an invitation. In order to invite an autistic person, you need to directly say "You should come," or "Do you want to come?" or "Let's go."" You might want to check it out, because there's a huge discussion about how NTs invite people without inviting people.

[@miahan8988]

I have adhd (and C-PTSD) and I just realised that my NT colleague asked me to go on a bike trip with her friends. She started to ask me if I have a bike (I don’t, I have roller blades), then she said the date they’re going to have that trip while looking at me with what I now think was expectation and I said “ok, have fun” 💀

[@theedgeofoblivious]

@@miahan8988 It is painful. I think there was one time I may have been invited to something almost exactly five years ago, and I think it's pretty much the only time I have been invited to something. I love to cook, and this person knew that. Before telling me about her plans to an international food market to walk around on the upcoming weekend, the person said "You might like it," and after telling me that, my response was "Oh that sounds really fun. I should go some time." And the saddest thing was I had THE WORLD'S BIGGEST crush on this person.

[@DeathnoteBB]

@@miahan8988And they’re always shocked we don’t invite ourselves! Like I was taught crashing someone’s activity is rude!

[@FlamingCockatiel]

@@DeathnoteBB Definitely the last part, especially after being the target for years in school. I asked if I could go to a classmate's party in tenth grade, as she had been inviting almost everyone else in the class. She said, "I guess." Later I found out that she had said I had invited myself over. Happy(?) ending; I didn't have a ride, so I didn't go. The thing is, at the time I was so shy but did want to socialize on occasion; I'm not the most gregarious person, but neither am I a misanthrope.

[@d.d.d.a.a.a.n.n.n]

I explicitly don't assume I'm invited unless they literally ask, because I've had instances where I thought I might have been invited, only to realize that no, a friend was just telling me about something and I wasn't invited to join. NT also do that, so it's hard to guess which it is

[@Eddygeek18]

I consider VR gaming/use similar to neurotypical reality experience. I use VR quite often and love that i can visit places and experiencing things i'd be too terrified of in real life, having an NPC be talking to you while you're listening but wandering off looking at other things and not being judged for it is pretty amazing. Not to mention listening to a live band, watching a dance performance, or exploring a country you'd love to visit, surrounded by people but knowing nothing can go wrong and no one can see you or judge is a dream come true really. I imagine the comfort i feel in VR is the comfort neurotypicals feel in social situations or everyday life

[@caseybirgitta-skoog5532]

Relating to "going out for pizza." I worked really hard to understand NT indirect communication (here in the USA) and had to learn all over again when I went and lived in China. My new Chinese friends would often ask, "Have you eaten/had breakfast/etc.?" And thinking what it's like at home, I would say that I haven't and get a little excited because I was thinking maybe they wanted to meet up for the next meal. Then they woud tell me what they just had to eat and I didn't understand. I would ask why they asked me that and I would get a response like, "It's okay." Later, a friend of mine (also neurodivergent) who was a fellow foreigner but from the UK asked me, "How's the weathe?" He was sitting right next to me and, confused, I asked, "Aren't we in exactly the same place right now? I don't understand why you asked me that." He laughed and then explained to me that it was something people "back home" said as a way to ask after one's wellbeing "like when people here ask you if you have eaten." Oh. lol

[@FruityHachi]

I've heard about "have you eaten" phrase when I started learning Chinese, you can research cultural etiquette before going to a different country it actually makes learning foreign languages more enjoyable for me when I also research their culture

[@Seriskey]

@caseybirgitta-skoog5532 I'm chinese and my grandma always asks me if I've eaten/what I've had for breakfast as a way to ask about my well being. It's very rare for her to ask how I'm feeling directly or to tell me that she cares about me etc. She tends to show her love through actions and questions about my daily life (seems like a cultural thing in my experience). Other questions she'd ask as a way to show care/affection are things like: Is it cold where you live? (Followed up by something like: Do you have enough warm clothes to wear?) or Do you have a lot of work? -> How are you managing your work and stress? Or How many cups of water do you drink every day? (Followed up with a reminder to stay hydrated) etc.

[@FruityHachi]

@@Seriskey I'm not Chinese but my grandma used to be do the same - showing love through actions and questions about my daily life than directly asking how I'm feeling or saying she cared about me I'd say it's more generational thing than cultural, where talking about feelings is not common, it's only the recent generation when it's becoming more acceptable to talk about feelings and it's also love language thing, some people expressing love through actions than words of affirmation and it's more attachment style thing than cultural, people with avoidant attachment style are not comfortable with directly expressing feelings and they rather do it through actions

[@caseybirgitta-skoog5532]

@@Seriskey Even the nuanced questions (e.g. "Did you have breakfast?") are preferable there vs how it plays out here (where I am from) despite the question being framed directly. For instance, ""How are you?" s only supposed to be answered with a brief response that is either neutral or positive such as "okay" or "good" even when not actually okay or good. I really apprecite you adding on to that. The genuine care for my well being I received from Chinese friends was refreshing. I miss them.

[@purpleguy-bu5fe]

11:25 as an autistic Christian I hate when people say I need to be healed. God made me in his image, he made my brain and I'm grateful🙏❤️ praise God

[@markwright3161]

You could respond with the verse about removing the plank from your own eye before trying to help someone else remove the splinter from theirs (so telling them to look at themselves first before making assumptions about others, and maybe offering to enlighten them on the strengths autistic people can have and remind that God often works through weaknesses to point to Him rather than the human's credentials, one of Jesus' disciples is mentioned as being soft spoken in person while bold in letters, yet that's not 'succumbing to demons' while standing in front of people). You could also mention that they're jumping to conclusions about how God created people and not thinking about how thousands of years of humans deviating from Him could actually be the reason for so many people being disadvantaged in society today. I'll try to not go for too long as it's a passionate subject for me, but something that crossed my mind while learning about neurodivergence, mainly autistic and ADHD folks, is that 'body doubling' can enable more to be achieved in a day than working at it by/for themselves. This made me think about the verses about serving others above yourself and the like. By it's wording in the Bible, it would appear the neurotypical audience need to be told to act like this, whereas, if the circumstances aligned, many autistic and ADHD people could get everything they need to get done done by doing it for each other easier than they could do it themselves. In a simple form this could look like a circle of people who all help 'the next one' and the 'last' person helps the 'first'. In reality it wouldn't be that simple, but I still daydream about what it could look like, and I see a setting with little sacrifice quite a lot, so get thrown off when I read about 'setting self aside' because I can see everyone 'winning' with cooperation. I've daydreamed a lot about establishing communities around my interests and the ways people could all interact based on their interests and how noone could need to do that much of what they don't like because there would probably be someone with an interest in it willing to dive in for them, and how with more and more people if anyone needed a break there would be the ability for everyone else to fill in without overwhelming themselves or others. I'm being very vague because I'd end up rivaling terms and conditions documents or similar in length if I tried to explain my internal (but wish it could be external) world. :)

[@etcwhatever]

Same here! God bless you

[@lynnb1727]

Thank you! Was gonna say the same thing. Autistic Christian, made in the Imago Dei. It makes my blood boil to see an integral part of my brain treated as evil instead of loving, creative design.

[@citychicken9949]

That "preacher" made my blood boil. I'm diagnosed ADHD (suspected ASD) and pretty sure my daughter also has ADHD... his theology would mean that my innocent 3 year old child is possessed by demons.. We are fearfully and wonderfully made just as we are.

[@thesaltycat9493]

Same. I just went off in another comment's replies about how awful that one preacher in the blue shirt was. God doesn't create junk because I'm not junk. And neither are you. And neither is anyone else for being born the way they were born, be it neurodivergent, queer, disabled, etc. He made me the way he wanted me to be and I like being me. I wouldn't *be* me without my neurodivergence or queerness.

[@esm1817]

The biggest frustration I have with neurotypical behavior is encapsulated here: it's all about, "How can I get people to do what I want?!" Not..."why might a person do that and how can I be more helpful to them? And are my expectations even realistic, given that all people are slightly different?"

[@stillnotstill]

Holy shit that's. Perfectly described.

[@normanclatcher]

I ought to preach this sometime.

[@AldinRamic]

Why does that sound like narcissistic to me? Like everything is about them. And they are thinking selfishly. And if they don't get what they want they seem to be emotionally harmed. I think I don't know what narcissism is.

[@dremcfleuve]

my suspicion is that if you're not completely mentally destroyed and fucked in some way in modern times then you are a fucking psychopath and would probably fail the Milgram experiment. It's a narcissistic trait to manipulate others into doing your bidding and communicating in terms of the reaction you'll get from the person rather than expressing your needs in a straightforward manner and negotiating.

[@tims.2717]

I'm starting to think a lot of neurotypical people lean heavily towards narcissism.

[@inspectre27]

My therapists feels that rejection sensitivity is the underlying cause of my agoraphobia. Or at least a big part of it. I'd add "fear of continuing to be a giant failure if I go out and try to engage" into the mix.

[@scubadiva666]

When I was a kid, I was unable to make eye contact with anyone. In HS, my friend Letitia made it a point to train me to make eye contact when I was talking to someone; she'd tell me, "You're not doing it," when I slipped up and let my gaze fall. This reminds me again that there were *so many signs* in place to tip people off-such as my oblivious teachers-that something was seriously wrong with me.

[@spiritmuse]

Honestly tone tags aren't even necessarily just an accessibility tool. It's well known that tone doesn't travel well over text, and even neurotypical often have misunderstandings because of it. Specifically, it's common to interpret something as more negative, angry or aggressive than it was intended. Tone tags would help everyone.

[@markigirl2757]

Omg sameee right now I can barely move my face so I come across now as I really am bc of my cutrent medical issues I developed with my jaw so now I just don’t interact or engage with people. My ear plugs help to drown people out and I found people leave me alone bc of that

[@marocat4749]

Dunno, aside music cues, like emojis legit can add to presenting and communicating like it does online.

[@normanclatcher]

🆗 🍿

[@kateshiningdeer3334]

I ESPECIALLY use the /sarc tag these days, because trying to tell when someone's being sarcastic or when they're being serious is increasingly difficult these days - and I'm GOOD at reading sarcasm. I really worry for those who aren't good at reading it to start with - it's such a mess right now! I'm glad to hear there's more tags out there - I need to learn more about it! I just mostly try to overcommunicate if I have any question about how my comment will be heard, and try to eliminate possible points of confusion if at all possible.

[@LibraryofAcousticMagic3240]

@@kateshiningdeer3334 Yeah I also get annoyed at the Schrödingers-douche bags that will decide if they were being sarcastic based on the feedback after the fact. And I'm pretty sure I've actually seen such cases.

[@Dreykopff]

Neurotypicals are not okay, and that's okay...apparently. I remember an incident where someone found it weird that I looked at my drink instead of their face for the cheers gesture, and I legit can't look at their face because I'd be afraid to spill my drink when not looking at the way I'm holding it. Monotropism in a nutshell!

[@anzaia2164]

In germany, not looking someone in the eye while cheers-ing means 7 years of bad sex, or bad luck (depending on what's more important to you haha). So my friends and I half-jokingly make it a point to never miss the eye contact. The easiest way to do it is to just look at your glass until it's about 1cm away from the other, then quickly making eye contact at the exact moment the glasses hit, and looking back at the glass immediately. Also, considering monotropism, you can just stop moving the glass while you look away, and have them close the distance. Edit: Of course, you don't have to make eye contact while cheers-ing at all, if you don't want to. I just thought I'd leave some tips here in case anyone does want to, but struggles with the problem you described. Don't want this to come across as another person telling you to "just do it", haha. Have a wonderful day/ a restful sleep!

[@lenas4342]

​@@anzaia2164 yes, I always follow that rule and I get pretty offended when the other one doesnt xD

[@NekoChanSenpai]

Your supposed to make eye contact? That's the norm? But then how come on tv the camera points to the cups? Checkmate, neurotypicals.

[@josephtaylor-leach5617]

Welp. Til that i cheers incorrectly. Oh well i guess.

[@Dreykopff]

@@anzaia2164I am from Germany, and I guess I got infinite years of bad luck and no sex then, what a time to be alive. They totally didn't invent that to bully or explain autistic lives. Never heard this though, it's only 7 years of bad luck for breaking a mirror in my memories... Anyway, thanks for the hacks, haha. I only see people with drinks like 3 times per year or something (and I sometimes don't pick alcohol because it's just not my thing), that makes both "practice" as well as actually thinking of these things really difficult. But hey, it's my birthday in 9 days, that sounds like a decent opportunity to try and rewire some mental muscles.

[@Matthew-xo2mh]

I used tone tags when talking to my manager, he's a close friend as well, so it avoids misunderstandings when we're just venting vs when a specific kind of response is called for.

[@ks-gn8xk]

Omg I'm from Finland and I totally agree with 17:34 ! 🇫🇮 Most of us (even those of us who are neorotypical) tend to get really confused by things like "we should have dinner sometime" without meanig it. We also don't do the weird "hi how are you" ritual. It's so odd, why do you ask a question, if you only want me to say "fine" and ask you the same question so that you can also say "fine"?! It is puzzling. Also, there is a lot less pressure to make eye contact here, compared to other European countries that i have visited. Welcome here, all autistic friends! ❤❤❤

[@uniquechannelnames]

There's not much to be confused about, it's exactly like you said, a ritual. It's just a kind of short transition phrase to go from greeting each other into a conversation. And sometimes, the answer is not fine or good.

[@wouldntyouliketoknowwesath7789]

If someone does that shit when im not making eye contact, imma just shut down completely. The whole saying "oh i love that!" When eye contact is made sounds so horribly patronizing. Like "good job buddy! You made eye contact! You're such a big boy!"

[@juli5945]

If someone said that to me I'd want to do the complete opposite and not look at them at all, lol

[@thetea4093]

THIS!!! I’m autistic and actually got called “good girl” when I didn’t push someone touching me away

[@cassandrabelyeu2419]

@@thetea4093 I hate when people disrespect personal space and boundaries that deeply.

[@etcwhatever]

@@thetea4093 its harassment. Im so sorry you had to endure such a thing.

[@sarahw7616]

That's because they are not holding space for you. (Respecting you and maintaining boundaries) They are trampling over anything that makes you uncomfortable to make themselves feel better. =CREEP.

[@heartroll8719]

The eye contact from that woman scares me. If someone looked at me like that in real life, I’d be scared.

[@irisrosenicholas5339]

Ikr

[@sharonjensen3016]

I think my two youngest nephews would be scared of her- and they're not even autistic.

[@heartroll8719]

@@sharonjensen3016 I think any kids would lol

[@morgan8290]

I was already scared just watching her on the video....

[@CrowMaiden]

'give them a reassuring smile! [the least reassuring smile I've ever seen]' I would actively avoid eye contact if anyone smiled at me like that for making eye contact.

[@NonArtisticArtist-ari]

yeah like, are you threatening me???? what are you doing?? its scarY!

[@nathanfish9137]

That "ignoring" part of ABA you talk about struck a nerve. The child by himself on that swing took me back. Must be some unresolved trauma there. 😔 Anyway, I came here to say, thanks for posting this and for triggering me unintentionally. You can't fix it if you don't know it's broken. ❤️

[@Stitchthecat]

If you think you need to train your friend like a dog cause they won't look at you, do them a favor and just don't be friends with them. If you demand eye contact cause you think you deserve respect from everyone around you, you have to have a real talk with yourself and realize you aren't respecting the other person's fear/choice/etc to not look at you in the eyes. Respect is earned not just given.

[@bethanykittok3903]

❤

[@Volkbrecht]

That's not how things work. In terms of respect, in polite society nobody starts at zero. There is a sort of basic respect everyone is owed, otherwise society couldn't operate in structures bigger than the stone age tribe, where everyone know everyone else and their merits. Instead of making up excuses that don't apply, confront the actual issue: autists aren't able to comply to the conventions of non-verbal communication, so additional verbal communication is needed to stop misunderstandings. It's tedious, but it's the only viable way to establish a coexistence based on mutual understanding.

[@micheller3251]

People who force you to look at them when talking absolutely won't tolerate you looking away tend to be a major red flag in my experience. Same kind of person who will get offended if you don't like the exact same things they like or if you say no to litterally anything they ask.

[@steggopotamus]

Yeah, toxic vibes for sure.

[@markigirl2757]

It’s mostly authoritative figures that do this bc it’s their way to exercise control and enjoy the power trip they have. (teachers supervisors ceos as some examples). As someone who worked with tons of people on a daily in a customer service jobs (I was not good socializing and used that job to improve) I come to the conclusion most people aren’t like this it’s jsut those who are insecure and have perceived power over people that won’t talk back that are like this.

[@jessicaburrows6596]

*cough. Narcissist! *Cough cough

[@uniquechannelnames]

That's an ego thing. NTs expect a little eye contact because it's a major portion of their line of communication. But to demand it like a dictator is a whooole other thing and is toxic af

[@scaliedog2777]

I always preface or add to my icebreaker that if I'm not looking at you when you're speaking, I'm listening and taking in what you're saying. this woman sounds manipulative as hell and if she's so worried about being ignored, she needs to look inside herself to figure out why. Not everything is about her. It can certainly *feel* dismissive, but like you said, that's not always the case.

[@stevecarter8810]

Omg the eye contact thing! Getting told off, thinking about the words of the teacher/parent: "Hey, listen to me!" Now i am looking them in the face, they are telling me about whatever, but I'm fascinated by the way their eye socket flexes to accommodate the eyeball sliding past as they look at me, or the way the lips stick together slightly as they open and close.

[@LilFeralGangrel]

Western culture around eye contact is actually the odd one out, in most cultures it's unusual for intense eye contact to occur. Anyway, reasons why a person may have a hard time with eye contact: ADHD, Autism, confidence issues, social anxiety/social phobia, trauma, they're preoccupied. People who take it as a personal slight just come off as deeply self absorbed. Edit: I actually think that trying to condition people to give you eye contact is very weird and deeply manipulative. Lady in red is a very gross person.

[@arianewinter4266]

IT IS Rude, dismissiv, condesending and messed Up . . . .also creepy AS hell . . .Like No thanks, I will never wanting to interact with you again!

[@roryandbro1561]

​@@arianewinter4266 Are you alright?

[@JhericFury]

Aside from it being an accessibility tool, "[Tone tags] are patronising, like you think they won't understand" Yes, I've been on the internet before, someone won't understand

[@LilChuunosuke]

I've got in so many arguments online both before and after tone tags became a thing where we both read each other's text tone as aggressive & responded accordingly, only to clarify the intended tone, realize neither of us wanted to fight, and immediately resume the conversation cordially. Its an extremely useful tool for a form of communication where tone is near impossible to convey.

[@JhericFury]

@@LilChuunosuke same, you're like three replies deep before you realise you're on the same side.

[@randomhuman_05]

No fr- and like, for me, tone tags are because *I’M* bad at conveying the proper tone and don’t want to be misunderstood. Like, I don’t have to use tone tags, but it’s for everyone’s benefit when i do😭

[@juliefore]

I’d never heard of tone tags before. I googled what they are. They’ve evolved from the indicators from the 1990’s and early ’00’s, but I love how easy they are now and will be embracing them whole heartedly. Heading out to print off a list of them. 😊

[@foul-fortune-feline]

@@randomhuman_05 Yea 90% of the time if I add a tone indicator it's because I'm afraid/concerned I've been ambiguous and want to clarify my intent (tho sometimes tone indicators won't really help me convey what I'm trying to like I have to have rewritten this comment maybe a dozen times now -w-' )

[@Lillyluvsanime]

8:15 I hate this so damn much. All of these whether it's "I'm celebrating white history in February because my ancestors did important stuff too," or, "it'spride month, I'm so proud to be straight!" or now this. No one is saying that you can't love yourself and love your life as a white person, as a cis-het person, as a non-disabled or neurotypical person. No one is telling the people who fall under the categories of privilege that they aren't allowdd to love and value themselves. ALL we are saying is STOP treating people who fall outside of that percieved norm like we are less human, less valueable and less deserving of love and respect. Saying, "I'm proud to be (insert minority)" is not saying, "you should be ashamd to be (insert privileged group)." It's about embracing the parts of you that mainstream society has tried to condition you into fearing or hating about yourself, the parts of you that people say make you inferior or even evil (often parts of your existence that you had no choice in) and YOU saying, "no. I don't accept that. I love who I am, I embrace the things about me that don't fit into a cookie cutter mold and I will not allow anyone to make me hate myself for simply existing as who I am." And then... these people who for once are simply being shown that they aren't the default of existence take the idea of, "other kinds of people exist and have value too," and somehow in their brains it gets warped into, "if you're not a minority, you don't matter and you're a bad person," and then they combat that by becoming self-victimizing assholes who have to turn what LITTLE attention was directed at trying to improve things for one group back onto themselves.

[@filmfocusmind]

When I was a kid I hated eye contact so much but was told it was a sign of respect so I came up with the brilliant idea of bowing or curtseying (depending on what I was wearing) because I would bow my head. Thus avoiding eye contact while showing upon meeting that I respected a person. Plus I was like 5 so everyone thought it was cute.

[@trippingandbrowsing1269]

Spoiler: > > > > > > > > The answer is no.

[@imautisticnowwhat]

😂

[@trippingandbrowsing1269]

@@imautisticnowwhat I finished your video, and I'd like to submit my application for being a psychic.

[@cynthiaroark1778]

As a retired Special Education teacher who is also late diagnosed and on the spectrum, I have to say that I was always appalled when various therapists felt they had to force my autistic students to make eye contact. I could see how uncomfortable it made the kids and never understood the point of it. Of course these people found me “weird” too and questioned my place as a teacher. I had to retire early from a career I loved. The kids loved me and I was a great teacher, but other teachers thought I was weird and that I should not be teaching. Teaching became too stressful for me because of these people.

[@therealpbristow]

That's tragic. I'm sorry both for your loss and for the children's.

[@martinmckee5333]

That sounds very similar to my experience. I had to leave teaching because I wasn't accepted by the teachers or administration, not because I wasn't a good teacher. Also late-diagnosed. And also a former Special Education teacher that was often annoyed by how my autistic students were treated. I generally push back against the claims that the educational system is fundamentally broken... but there are certainly issues.

[@therealpbristow]

@@martinmckee5333 Thankyou (both) for the years you put in.

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@martinmckee5333That's interesting bc I'd say that sounds like confirmation that the system is broken 🤔 but you obviously have more experience than me

[@martinmckee5333]

@@jclyntoledo I would certainly say that the school I was last at was broken. Others are much better. However, my biggest issues, all through my career, always came from parents wanting me - as the teacher - to "fix" things when they were unwilling to put in effort themselves, or support a school board that would actually give us teachers the resources we needed. If the US education system is broken... it's because that's the way people want it, not because there's just something inherently wrong with the ideas it's based on. But, to be fair, I generally feel pretty protective of teachers (having been in the classroom for fifteen years, I understand the struggle). Almost none of that protectiveness transfers to administration. So maybe I'd agree it's broken at that level.

[@fancyflautist]

Bless you for linking the mentioned videos in the description!!

[@hypiritchi]

i've only come to realize my tism tendenies recently (as in the past two years). i would just like to say that your videos have helped me so so so much!!! every time i tune in, i discover something about myself that makes me break down a bit. not necessarily in a bad way, just in a way that truly lets met realize what actually is going on with myself. thank you so much for being so open and honest!

[@Steve13C]

Ugh, I hate the idea that demons are involved in either neurodiversity or things like depression.

[@cassandrabelyeu2419]

Yeah, putting it into peoples’ heads to call autists “junk” sounds much more like their speed.

[@etcwhatever]

Im autistic and Catholic and i call bs. 👍 Some people are just different. Neurodivergent. Mental issues. Physical issues. Actually the guidelines for exorcism state that a person needs to be cleared by a psychiatrist before an exorcism is considered. The hypothesis of demonic action comes only after natural explanations are ruled out. So yes that guy in the video is ignorant.

[@livliveart]

And transness (and being queer in general) too... it's such a gross response, truly vile 😭

[@thesaltycat9493]

Yeah, literally. Like, I'm religious and no, my God *doesn't* make junk because I'm *not* junk. And neither is literally anyone else. We are not junk for being neurodivergent, we are not junk for being queer, and (for those that believe in the specific type of higher power that this man was discussing) demons/Satan did *not* make us to be this way. I hate when people try to act like we're lesser than, or like God wouldn't love/create us, when Jesus' entire thing was *literally* LOVE! It's so irritating. Anyways, apologies for my little religious rant. I'm just in the middle of watching that section of the video currently and it's extremely frustrating.

[@Hezkun]

​@@thesaltycat9493it's the biggest reason I'm atheistic rn, centralized religion and people using it for ill intent really traumatized me away from that sort of thing However, I do really respect people who practice faith in their own terms, as if a god did exist, I would imagine a personal connection would be the best type of one to share with such a deity

[@tubebrocoli]

omfg... me coming from a country where making eye contact with a stranger means "i am REALLY REALLY mad at you right now" hearing her talk of "eye contact problems" geeez....

[@matthewtalbot6505]

What country, if you don’t mind? That sounds like an interesting cultural habit to come about when most of the world seems to have gone the opposite direction.

[@zyqa]

Leaving a comment here so I can eventually find out which country that is so I can move there and appear as a neurotypical

[@goodpeople25]

@@matthewtalbot6505 You know most of the world but don't know what country it could be? You're buying into problematic assumptions and language about cultures outside your own bias.

[@robokill387]

@@matthewtalbot6505 well, actually no, the "importance" of eye contact is very much a Euro-american thing, it's far less important in most of the world and is often considered rude unless you have a certain closeness to the person. In fact, it isn't even that important in parts of Europe even, and America places way more importance on it that most of Europe.

[@tubebrocoli]

I'm from Brazil, São Paulo specifically. You don't just make eye contact with anyone like that, definitely not with strangers on the street or public transit, but even with i.e. cashiers etc... you make only brief eye contact. In conversations you do make eye contact but quite a lot less than in other cultures and places I visited so far. Funnily enough, while we make a lot less eye contact due to how it can be perceived as intimidation, or just plain creepy, we're very liberal with hugs, cheek kisses, touching another person's shoulder, and tactile / personal space stuff in general. Also, by far the most contrast with the eye contact thing I felt was the couple of times I visited the US midwest, the eye contact experience there was horrible for me, people lock their eyes on you and **glare** at you, it triggered my fight or flight response every time, because I instinctively felt that was intimidation, leading to me averting my eye contact as a reflex, which they interpreted as me not reciprocating their eye contact, and being suspicious of me, and that was awful every single time.

[@Tyriad_]

I LOVE your hair tinsels!! The subtle sparkles in the black is so so pretty!!

[@longline]

This might be the most relatable double empathy primer that I could easily share with everyone. Love it! Huge gratitude!

[@K-tw4wb]

I would never talk to someone again if they acted like that first lady

[@uniquechannelnames]

Oh you just KNOW someone like that always be schemin', big or small.

[@_lil_lil]

I don't even know if I'm autistic but people like that just seem fake AF. Yeah no, I don't trust you, you could be perfectly nice, or maybe if we get close you will kill my whole family, I don't know, you're too fake to read.

[@theedgeofoblivious]

Neurotypicals' explanations of autistic behavior are BIZARRE. And neurotypicals' advice online to people who are obviously autistic and facing problems is also BIZARRE.

[@ishkanark6725]

As a neurotypical, my best explanation is "They do what they do."

[@sjihtraahfrohcs1524]

Thanks for being like you are 🙏 You make my day every time I watch or listen to you ❤

[@Hidetannerslife]

I worked in a small room with a few coworkers. One coworker was very insecure/uncomfortable because I would just come in the room and start working and not talk or make eye contact. He used to yell at me so loud other people in the building could hear it. The managers were to sissy to confront him. So I quit.

[@NegaHumanX]

That sucks.

[@JokerFace090]

I had a coworker like that. HR told her not everyone she works with wants to be her friend and she is creating a hostile work environment. I work for a mental health treatment provider, they know how to deal with toxic BS. Hope your next job had better managers.

[@Underhownd]

I literally yelled "That's ABA!" at the same time you did when that woman was talking about rewarding eye contact!

[@PixiesParlor-np7of]

"I have depression" "Just have fun!" ffffff omg I feel this so hard. I actually had a similar conversation with my dad. Me: I have depression Him: Why are you sad? What's in your life that's making you sad? Me: Uh...my brain chemistry? Him: You've just gotta fix the thing making you sad! Me: Dad, it is *literally* my brain.

[@sarahr8311]

"It's all in your head!" Yes, exactly

[@martinmckee5333]

I couldn't count the number of times I've had a conversation like that... sometimes even with therapists. It's amazing how difficult some people find depression to understand.

[@NormyTres]

Same

[@AxeyaxeAxel]

Loved the video, as always! No matter how frustrating, it’s great to cool back down with you and your responses + feel like someone understands, even if in their own way

[@julieosborne2948]

I love you ❤ thank you for this conversation xx

[@cd4536]

How conceited is that first woman? The sheer rudeness is just shocking. If I sat down with someone and every time my eyes drifted she turned to follow my gaze I dunno what I would do, but it would be extremely upsetting and insulting. She needs a lesson in humility.

[@tomasvoldrich]

she is Vanessa Van Edwards, communication expert and speaker but neurotypical. So basically everything she says can work between two neurotypicals but can make many false assumptions when one person is autistic

[@cd4536]

@@tomasvoldrich Yeah but there are a lot of reasons to not make sustained eye contact that aren't being autistic. Her reactions would be obnoxious in any contact with the exception of the last thing asking someone if they are ok. There is a commonly used psych med that makes eye contact difficult. It would be mortifying to sit down to a meal and every time your eyes wonder the other person turned their head and said oh and pointed. I hope nobody out there is actually taking he advice.

[@martinmckee5333]

​@@tomasvoldrichI know neurotypical people who would be furious to be treated that way. If someone is not making eye contact, there is a reason. It may mean (as she said) that they are just disrespectful. But - much more likely - it could be a result of anxiety, fear, or overstimulation. It could be a result of cultural conditioning. Or it could be any number of other things. She had one good point. If you are concerned by the behavior, ask your interlocutor if there's something wrong. If there is, maybe it can be fixed. If there's not, the right thing to do is to accept that they are different and the interaction is just different than you were expecting. For a communication expert she sure seems to be allergic to honest communication and understanding.

[@JokerFace090]

@@tomasvoldrich A communication expert would know how to politely share if they felt the other person seemed distracted by something and possibly ask if there was something deeply important to them on their mind. They sure as fuck would not pretend to be interested in joining in looking at something in the environment with you in a mocking pantomime to make you feel bad about yourself for not giving them the amount of eye contact they want. It's not just childish, it is a red flag for a legit personality disorder.

[@_lil_lil]

I'd just tell her I have ADHD (because I do) and then we would probably never hang out again because she'd dislike that answer.

[@felderup]

reward eye contact with a smil... omg, why are you grimacing at me, are you going to hurt me?! stop, please d... oh, well, you really need to learn how to smile, cause that is scary.

[@irisrosenicholas5339]

Her smile is scary and unnerving

[@LilChuunosuke]

Her smile doesn't even meet her eyes at all its so soulless and unnerving

[@iris1568]

She just gives serial killer vibes with smiles like that 😅

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

Of course this is wrong when talking about adult people but this is exactly how eye contact becomes a thing when allistic people are babys. It is not concious but the caretaker smiles to the baby when they make eye contact and that is how they learn is an important thing in our culture. Later the same will happen with other social clues as the social smile

[@felderup]

@@anainesgonzalez8868 yes, but... we are talking about doing it to adults. for kids, depending on how they respond to facial cues, it could merely be confusing or scary, many children, you wait till they can understand some spoken words and explain it to them, and that's the only way they'll understand.

[@vampyresmiles713]

first lady's "rewarding smile" actively creeps me out! if I was talking to someone and i noticed them doing that EVERY. TIME. I. LOOKED. AT. THEM. I would try to leave asap

[@remitheracc9689]

" Not staring at me for the entire time we are spending together is disrespectful to me " honey are you sure you don't have a narcissism issue?

[@optbraindmg]

Honestly I find people who smile a lot, especially seemingly unprompted, really creepy, smiling at me as a "reward" for eye contact would most likely have the opposite of the intended effect.

[@jclyntoledo]

Yes! I legit start staying away from them

[@JhericFury]

Also, aside from autism, I look around a lot in a public place because I have anxiety.

[@TearfulMoon]

It's just my personal experience but people who insist on smiling at me while staring me down with big eyes are usually unpleasant, selfish and manipulative.

[@AngryPug76]

The tone tag “you are being patronizing” comment is a great example of communication issues between us and typical people. I’ve had hundreds of encounters where I was accused of intentionally making people feel stupid because I spoke “to plainly and clearly” about things at work. I was supposed to have assumed the people already knew certain things even when I was training new hires with no experience. Many typical people have very fragile egos and low self worth about how smart they are so to them, seeing themselves as stupid people, if you tell them something they already know it’s the same as you calling them very stupid even if the detail ties directly into new information or new skills. I didn’t figure this entirely out on my own. I’m a former high school teacher who looked into transitioning into adult education. The main difference between teaching kids and adults is knowing intuitively what to leave out when talking to adults but realized this was a chasm I just couldn’t bridge. Tone tags unfortunately are going to always trigger the same people who get triggered by trigger warnings.

[@june-cz1cw]

Well as an autistic person I find that triggering it's not an ego thing it's a thing where people legitly thought I was stupid

[@stripey7303]

In third grade my teacher kept accusing me of "daydreaming," a term I'd never heard before, and I didn't know what it meant. In fact I was hearing everything she said. I guess she said this because I wasn't making eye contact. She also tried to make me write with my right hand instead of my left until my parents had a word with her. I was only diagnosed fifty years later.

[@annam.g.novakvanclova8827]

I haven't even watched the video yet but I need to tell you I absolutely adore your earrings. I remember these little scruffy plastic guys from when I was a kid and them still being around today (and apparently existing outside my home country too) makes me happy.

[@lacexv]

"Hey I noticed that you haven't been making eye contact with me, is there anything I can do to make this interaction more comfortable for you?" It's so easy to just ask!!! I can't believe that woman is making up all these horrible mind games to force eye contact.