The New Monk Hurts My Soul

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Subclasses good, monk (mostly) bad in One D&D!
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[@DnDShorts]

Don't MONK-ey around, get 4000+ TTRPG maps for $5 right here! And they're STUNNING (strike)! Czepeku maps -> www.patreon.com/czepeku/posts

[@Staff7]

good video ,pretty good take.can tell you been hanging with colby. ty for your videos.

[@skippy9273]

You mean don't MON - discipline point around.

[@CloudBorne]

Can I download and keep the maps, or is it $5 a month for access?

[@the1tigglet]

NGL I came here because the thumbnail of the video showed you have chest hair

[@DnDShorts]

@@CloudBorneyou can download the maps yeah!

[@mistahanansi2264]

"Let's remake the monk class in such a way that EVERYONE would rather homebrew their own version instead of using our official one." - Wizards of the Coast

[@franconunez925]

You don't get it guys, they are doing this to show how they support homebrew content after the OGL fiasco.

[@joxyver]

That’s basically how I feel. Fuck wizards of the coast. If they want me to make shit myself then I will and they can’t do anything about it.

[@TonberryShuffle]

You mean back to the 3.5 approach?

[@ChaosMind10531]

Remake monks that even the 5e form is arguably better...

[@redroseproductions4688]

OneDnD in a nutshell basically

[@wolfwood770]

You forgot another minor change to Stunning Strike. So instead of the stunned condition lasting to the end of your next turn, it only lasts til the start of your next turn. Meaning that Monks are actually the class that benifits least from stunning strike, if they can ever stun an enemy that is

[@DandDgamer]

Because it's once per turn, you must hit on exactly your first attack and they must fail the save to get real value out of stunning strike yourself. Really clunky

[@markdasaro9045]

It also works on ranged weapons he also forgot to mention that

[@brewdaly1873]

Honestly, I would call that a major change. That takes Stunning Strike from amazing to just good.

[@yuvalgabay1023]

​@@brewdaly1873tbh. Its was a needed change..many dms compliand how they can do any boss fights whan monks are around..and low number enemys jn general because 4 attacks stuns

[@sarcasticsage984]

​@@yuvalgabay1023agreed but then give something in return, if you are talking stuff from them.

[@grantparker6047]

I think the biggest nerf is that most people seem to miss is that monks used to be immune to poison, damage and the condition, at level 10. Poison is one of the most common monster damage types (appart from bludg, piercing, and slashing) it really bummed me out to see that gone. Edit: I guess I should clarify, it's not necessarily a huge nerf, but it's a feature I absolutely love about monks that got changed in a way that I worry may be less effective. But it's definitely a buff to the stillness of mind feature, so there is that.

[@DandDgamer]

I'm just tired of only defensive benefits for so many levels, I didn't care about that one but I still hate the feature presented lol

[@Awes0m3n3s5]

It's kinda weird that they get immunity and not resistance tho

[@robertcarpenter9823]

I also noticed that the deflect missiles is now a dex saving throw by the target, not an attack roll.

[@brewdaly1873]

Eh, it's immunity to one specific damage type and condition (I've never played a game where disease came into play, so I'm not counting that) compared to ending 3 different status effects as a bonus action. I wouldn't call that a nerf.

[@nikolasversteeg]

sure... but they also can now reduce melee damage every single turn. Which is 100% the most common damage type. seems like a fair trade to me.

[@Abyssionknight]

Personally I think Ki should be used like metamagic where it's goal is to enhance your existing abilities, rather than grant you access to those abilities. For example Martial Discipline already does this. For free you get a bonus action unarmed strike, but for a ki point you get two. Same with deflect arrow giving you a deflection, but for a ki point you upgrade it to let you throw the projectile back. If every monk ability functioned this way the monk could always feel like a monk. There would still be that competition between subclass skills and flurry of blows /stunning strike, but at least it'd feel less punishing to use ki on your subclass skills if you could still function as a monk while out of ki.

[@Drekromancer]

This is maybe the best design idea for Ki I've seen so far. The problem with Monks is that they have to use their limited class resource in order to do shit that other classes get to do for free (e.g., Cunning Action is just a more versatile Step of the Wind for free every turn). However, if they could hold their own normally, then spending Ki would allow them to actually excel for once. And I think it's very on-theme for a monk who's perfected his body and mind to be able to do any one thing better than anyone else can for a limited time. Let's think of some options here. -Martial Arts: I won't get into all the normal details here, but I'll say this. They get the third and fourth Extra Attacks at the same time as Fighters now, although their damage still scales the same way as before. The idea is to give them a fuckton of weak attacks in order to appeal to the fantasy of a lighting-fast master. I also think we should give them access to 2 Battlemaster maneuvers for the price of 1 Ki point each, in order to give them more control options. The superiority die would be their Martial Arts die. -Stunning Strike: For 1 Ki, it Dazes the opponent. For 3, it Stuns. -Step of the Wind: For free, it's a bonus action Dash or Disengage. For 1 Ki, it's both. Plus you get the jump boost. Maybe you could even linearly increase the boost to your jumps based on the amount of Ki you spend, so you could go all-in and jump straight up to the roof of a building if you were willing to spend the Ki. I think you can argue for a climb speed option that lasts until the end of their next turn, too. It's fun to have "upcasting" as an option there. -Flurry: 1 bonus action attack for free. For 1 Ki, you get two (which increases to 3 at lvl 11 and 4 at lvl 17). -Deflect Missiles: Costs a reaction to use, but no Ki. For 1 Ki, you can grab the missile and return to sender. I think it might be fun to allow upcasting here too, so you can further reduce the damage of the missile by an additional Martial Arts die per Ki point spent. That'd make for some really cinematic moments. -Stillness of Mind: Break out of charm/fear/domination for free as an action. For 1 Ki, break out as a bonus action. -Wholeness of Body: You are resistant to Poison for free. For 1 Ki, you control your metabolism enough to end the Poisoned condition on yourself. You are immune to Poison and the Poisoned condition for the next minute. These are just some 3AM thoughts, but they make me feel like playing a Monk would actually be fun! I'd love to hear some feedback.

[@freelancerthe2561]

@@Drekromancer I've been saying that since I found out Ki points were a thing. Make it a mid-ground fighter, but then trigger special abilities for calculated flashes of brilliance. Unfortunately this doesn't help DnD's other baseline problems... namely the action economy being counter intuitive to the DPS focused combat, and the tactically underwhelming condition modifiers. Balder's Gate 3 makes all of the major workflow issues with 5e glaringly obvious. And because its mostly low levels, all the resource management issues are amplified. Especially in the Cantrip/Spell slot dynamic. Spell slots are too precious to use on anything that isn't either AOE or high damage spells; so you're tempted to spam damaging cantrips, despite the low overall damage, because you don't have many options. Ironically this wouldn't be a problem with Larian's exceptional environmental design, but that relies very heavily on enemy positions. And if a fight goes on for more than 4 rounds, the party is already half way to death. I point this out because its what compounds the class disparity into the level its been reaching. For the issues Pathfinder has, its action economy only draw back is that its notably slower.... but it fllows so much better, since its not a single high value action (which can easily fail) that determines your success in any given round. The Divinity games kind of prove this, as just being able to do 2 different attacks per round makes so many other mechanics workable. If DnD could just adopt a 2/1 action economy (2 basic/1 Special), cleaned up spell slots, and compressed some of the damage ranges, you'd have the wiggle room to retool all the classes to not default favor high damage.

[@HellDuke-]

@@Drekromancer then this reaches WoTc and they go "wait, haven't you been playing it like that all along? Everything we list for ki points is the bonus, not the base"

[@user-pi8pi3wj7h]

​@@HellDuke-except that is not how it is designed

[@carlsmagicbicep9736]

I just don't see how bad it can really be if monks can flurry of blows for free each round and THAT be their gimmick. Like dude

[@ponchoman6277]

It's legitimately insane to me that Monk's strongest features in 5e got NERFED for One DnD.

[@Klaital1]

I am fine with Stunning Strike being nerfed, but I would like buffs in other areas to compensate for it.

[@D_A_D_]

I am glad they did it. The feature was way overturned and forced them to have to be really conservative with the rest of their kit. Now they have room to give them other cool things without breaking the class.

[@TheTrueBrawler]

Forcing numerous saves per turn against Stun felt like a cheap cop out way of winning an encounter, so it's a feature that needed to be nerfed. The problem is that old Stunning Strike was one of only a few things keeping an already weak class relevant, and WotC didn't compensate nearly enough.

[@jamesbeattie8800]

Pain it's still ass in playtest 8

[@williamwest9204]

​@@D_A_D_if they used the 3.5 monk entirely it still wouldn't be O.P

[@demnix6210]

• the one minute short rest is only once per day. • the early d6 is countered by the removal of 'monk weapons' being any your proficient with, only simple weapons. That means no morer d10 weapons early on. • immunity to poison gone. No more monks pulling a legolas & out drinking dwarves.

[@xandosreign]

I just want to know who at Wizards is so anti Monk that every rework always results in yet another nerf.

[@johngleeman8347]

Seriously. Couldn't monks be the best martial character in one edition? They've been brittle, not worth the investment, or just plain awful in EVERY edition of the game.

[@xandosreign]

@@johngleeman8347 Honestly you could let Monks do everything they do without Ki and they would still be overshadowed in every area of the game. They would feel sooooo much better but would still be the neglected ones. "Unlimited stunning strikes is soooo OP." Con save, works maybe 25% of the time at best. Plus few monks are Wis first which means they rarely have a +5 prior to upper levels of play where Banishment is a spell.

[@Drekromancer]

@@xandosreign Well said. The idea of the Ki Pool is a good one, but right now you have to spend your Ki Points just to keep up with other characters. But spending your points should put you in a better position than normal. They just need more, stronger options.

[@Arkansym]

​@@johngleeman8347 False. They're amazing in 4e, and have some of the best Utility and mobility.

[@AlamarianJ]

@@ArkansymMonks are just okay in 4e, which is sadly as good as they have ever been. 4e monks are striker/defender hybrids but neither deal the raw damage of a good striker (except in very target rich environments, which are also dangerous) nor have the survivability and aggro control of a good defender.

[@foolycoolytheband]

Here's an idea, Monks should have a very small pool of ki that recharge at the start of each of their turns and scale up as they level. That way the continuously can do monk things with the limitation being the number of monk things they can do on their turn and the costs to do them

[@Chaosmancer7]

Huh... that's a really interesting idea...

[@michaelscalia7080]

Number of points equal to half their proficiency bonus, rounded down?

[@xenonuke1194]

While I like this in theory it seems clunky

[@Battleguild]

Perhaps? "When you roll initiative, you gain a number of Discipline equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1). You can't gain more Discipline than your maximum this way."

[@Chaosmancer7]

The real trick is figuring out a scale that let's you use more powerful late level abilities

[@RunAzazelRun]

How sorcerers can burn spell slots for sorcerer points, they could let monks burn hit die for them. Kinda like using your life force in and channeling it immediately rather than slowly after resting.

[@swordhunter12]

That's, actually quite inspired! And it's more in line (I think), with how Ki is supposed to work in real life.

[@J0eMega]

I do like that. Another possibility is that a monk could get points back for landing a critical hit or fail. Much like the explanation for inspiration, those rolls can steel their resolve, tighten their focus, or bolden their determination. And with flurry of blows, I don’t think a 1/10 chance is too unlikely for it to be noticeable.

[@crassardstreaming4693]

I really like the idea of rolling a hit-die and instead of die + con mod HP you can die + wis mod Ki, make it so it can exceed your normal maximum and monk would have something to kinda smooth their earlier levels and useable throughout their entire lifetime instead of making such a late-game feature like "+4 ki when a fight starts if you're completely out but you have 17-20 Ki per short rest at this level anyway so really this is just filler"

[@antarath517]

In the past, I made a feature of this type for a homebrew class. It was even more extreme though. They'd burn maximum and current hit points to recover spell slots, and they could only recover those from long resting. I think the one thing that feels applicable here is the idea that each hit point consumed this way would age them by 1 day, representing the long-term strain of going beyond their limits. It brings a little bit of RP value and questions, "Do I *need* to use this?" Also yes, I was inspired by Emperor Time from hxh

[@antarath517]

@jamesdeer3129 "Burn" just means providing an alternate means of using them. Normally, they are used during short rests to recover hp. You can roll them one at a time until you're satisfied with your hp. The pool of hit dice you get is based on your level, and their size is based on your class.

[@Rithscar]

I find it really funny that the best monk in the new playtest is the dancing bard. You get d10 and d12 unarmed damage die earlier, also get unarmored defense, and you still get to be a caster with 9th level spells.

[@alexfrank5331]

Guess which type of monk the people at WotC play? "I want to be a Disney princess who can dance away all my problems." While I'm all for letting players play what they want, the designers should not have such obvious favoritism. lol

[@Flamme-Sanabi]

Man... As someone who really likes the idea of monks, that's depressing.

[@Klaital1]

They might get the higher die earlier, but they are only making like one attack per turn.

[@wayneton3420]

​@@Flamme-Sanabi0

[@DnDShorts]

TL;DW - Monk is probably better, but arguably worse, but subclasses are kinda cracked, I like 'em! 5/10, lacks discipline.

[@theonlymatthew.l]

To anyone who watches Colby's D4 channel this vid is wayyyyyy short already 😏🤣

[@Eragon057]

Good day, sir! Love your content, glad to see continued collabs between you and D4. I have a slightly stupid question: The wording on the new Stunning Strike would imply that the monk does not need to proactively spend the Discipline Point to trigger a Stunning Strike save. Unless I'm mistaken, the introductory clause seems to say (to me, at least, please correct my understanding if I'm incorrect) that once a hit is confirmed, the monk has the opportunity to reflexively spend that Ki point and immediately force the Con saving throw. I'm not super well versed in 5E, but isn't that different from how 5E works? I do agree that getting fewer opportunities to use it per turn sucks, but doesn't this mean that the monk doesn't WASTE their Discipline Points on missed attacks?

[@SkaalKesh]

@@Eragon057he problem is that 5e monks already could use their Ki to impose a stunning strike save after the hit. They already had that.

[@Cbev1994]

Buh dum tiss

[@user-pi8pi3wj7h]

Yeah the new monk is not nearly good enough to be the revision monk needs, I feel this is due to stunning strike's existence and wotc being too scared to buff monk because of it. I think stunning strike needs the cunning strike treatment that rogues got. And monk needs an entirely new system that isn't Ki/Discipline points. It's ironic because Baldur's Gate 3 just announced that the game will have a reworked version of monk, only proving how bad 5e monk is.

[@ComradeVenus]

I think there are more problems with monk than you let on. Like you mentioned, the biggest problem with monk was at earlier levels where ki points are incredibly limited. But once you reach 11th level, the monk ALSO falls off in damage compared to every other class! Fighters get extra attack, edritch blast gets an extra beam, paladins get an extra d8 per attack, spellcasters get 6th level spells and their cantrips gain an extra damage die. Monk gets no damage boost at all except for a d8 becoming a d10, which is only averaging 1 extra point of damage per hit, while every other class gets way more than that. This means that monks are limited at low levels, but also really weak at high levels. The best levels for monk are 7-10, before and after they are really bad. Flurry of blows should scale with level, to give 3 attacks at 11th level and 4 attacks at 17th level. At the bare minimum monk should get additional ki equal to their wisdom modifier, but i think ki needs a redesign altogether or it should be scrapped. If flurry of blows didnt cost ki, would it be overpowered? i dont think so. But i think, more uniquely, monks should get a passive bonus to AC against melee attacks, and they should be able to use their reaction to make an unarmed strike against a creature that misses them. Moreso, monks should be able to take more reactions than other subclasses! (2 reactions at 5th, 3 at 11th, 4 at 17th) Monks are all about having quick reflexes, and dodging punches and blows and countering when their opponent leaves themselves open. The 5e and one dnd monk dont feel like this at all. Also, just give the monk a d10 hit die. they desperately need it.

[@iselreads2908]

Oh, these be some dope suggestions ^^! Especially upgrading the number of attack with flurry of blows. Might bog things down a little at times, but rolling all your attacks at once instead of one at a time exists.

[@ComradeVenus]

@@iselreads2908 well, this already exists with the fighter, at high levels. They already get 4 attacks per round, paired with action surge that becomes 8. 10 if you count two weapon fighting. Also with how stunning strike is, it already bogs down the table. I wouldn't mind it if stunning strike was moved up to higher levels or even removed entirely. I actually think the stunning strike nerf is perfectly fine, but the monks issues weren't fixed at all so it just serves to make the monk worse

[@wbyceiydbo5763]

​@ComradeVenus I think changing Stunning Strike to use the new Daze effect instead of stun is WAY better. I use it in my games, and it works out far better.

[@gethriel]

​@@ComradeVenus...and action surge comes online at level 2

[@brokenmeats5928]

I agree with the flurry of blows, and even step of the wind, not costing points. I also like the idea of both bonus actions scaling with levels. Could go back to 2014 damage dice too to help with their goal of backwards compatibility. Stunning strike should not be limited to only once a turn. I like the change to where the stun ends at the start of your next turn. Add in their hit die should be increased, they are usually melee characters.

[@lanewhitaker8078]

It would be kind of cool if monks had something like battle master maneuvers. You would think something with a lot of dex hitting you multiple times per turn might have the utility to move you into a different position, find a weak spot, knock you down...something

[@МолчаливыйКлинок]

Basically make open hand into the base class. It's not like they have any flavor that separates them, anyway.

[@Meister153]

Thema have Kinda with the New unarmed strike Feature... Butt of course u give up dmg for that again....

[@user-pi8pi3wj7h]

they should give stunning strike the cunning strike treatment imo, make it a list of versatile and balanced striking options

[@grunklesam787]

SW5e (Star Wars 5e) monks were quite buffed, and have similar things to what you suggested. I think it’s totally fair, and cool flavour that a monk would have this cool knowledge.

[@MrSeals1000]

They decided to give that to the rogues of all the classes lolol

[@lukefrederiks5906]

I’m honestly excited to see what Larian Studios does with the monk in BG3. They’ve already mentioned adding new features to the base class as well as more ki points. Will be interesting to try out their homebrew.

[@GarrettCARROTZ]

yeah me too. I honestly feel like WotC actually hates the monk :') At least we have hope that Larian won't shaft us like that edit: Larian well and truly did not shaft us with the monk this is the fucking BEST

[@christopherdorazio1705]

My first bg3 will be 1 fightertake blind fighting, 3rogue for extra bonus action and non ki monk abilities, 8 shadow monk take 2extrhp per level feat you need the ogre ring because I dump int. Their a do a necromancer. I’ve been play testing for 1000s of hours

[@lordbachus]

this says it all, they had to boost monks for ballance... and yet WOTC delivers this? They just dont want people to play monks as it does not fit western fantasy? PF2e did a great Monk, and now bring a kineticist (ahn)

[@christopherdorazio1705]

@@lordbachus it's honestly just weird, this has been going on since the Oriental handbook. Was that the last time that monk was good? Path finder charisma monk was kinda fun though

[@crookshanks259]

@@GarrettCARROTZ Maybe they're racist against Asians? I can't think of any other reason why they would have so much trouble with what in my opinion should be one of the coolest classes in the game. MNKs really should have a fairly high AC and either get more class points at lower levels or a larger base damage die.

[@glonx639]

I'll miss the poison immunity as a monk. Having an ally cast a cloud of poison and then tearing through the enemies in it is a wonderful experience.

[@tylercool1400]

I think the biggest blow to Monk in this playtest is the Dance Bard. It gets the cool unarmed and mobile play style, while also being a full caster (with access to any/all spell lists to boot!).

[@copperfield17]

College of Dance is my favorite monk subclass they’ve ever made.

[@tylercool1400]

Just think about how much more a Bard needs Charisma than a Monk needs Wisdom; even the Unarmored Defense is more optimal on the Dance Bard. 3 levels in Monk for 4 Elements 15ft reach (or 20ft for Bugbears!) and damage types could be cool, but probably only worth it if you’re starting at level 6+ and ending before high level spells.

[@MrJpc1234]

Yeah but don't they GET alot more from charisma than a monk could ever get from wisdom

[@tylercool1400]

@@MrJpc1234 Unless Stunning Strike gets restored, or we get a semi-caster Monk, I’d argue a Bard gets a lot more out of Charisma. Spell to-hit, save DC, and bardic dice number on just a generic Bard, and now Dance Bard gets Unarmored Defense, matching the Wisdom need for Monk AC. All that to say, I think Monk should probably get more from Wisdom; either more discipline points, or an unarmed strike to-hit bonus. If they’re forced to be MAD, martial, and not partial spell casters, they really need more from their “secondary” stat.

[@copperfield17]

@@tylercool1400 I saw a really cool rework of 4-elements by Laserllama that used the Wu Jen from the Forgotten Realms setting. It made them a half-caster but with the spell slot setup of a warlock and a restrictive spell list. Added with the later bonus of being able to do a martial arts attack after casting a spell, it is one of my favorite reworks. Genuinely, I think the direction to go to make monk not feel like a different, worse fighter is to use more of the game design that went into Warlock. Otherwise, it is easier to play a punchy fighter or ranger and you get to do all the kung fu fantasy movie stuff without a drop of the named class. Just playing a Hunter Ranger and taking Horde Breaker, Multiattack Defense, Whirlwind Attack, and any of the lvl 15 features gives you a half-caster monk in all but name.

[@ColonelMustache]

One easy-to-miss buff I noticed for Deflect Missiles is that it no longer has the requirement that the missile be small enough for you to catch in one hand in order to throw it back. In fact, the wording has been changed to make it more vague what you do to the projectile, so I guess you could be punching it out of the air if you wanted. I don't know if that's a rule anyone paid attention to anyway, but it does mean RAW you can headbutt a giant's boulder back at him if you roll well enough.

[@adambielen8996]

I didn't even know that was a thing. I've been deflecting ballista bolts with my Monk for a while now.

[@adambeck427]

@@adambielen8996 That jail break scene from kung fu panda was always what i imagined when i deflect a ballista bolt. Maybe like using your whole upper body to grab and spin the bolt, using the momentum to throw it back.

[@adambielen8996]

@@adambeck427 Well my guy uses a longbow so I always want to ask if I can shoot it back at them, but I've never reduced the damage to zero.

[@fasterbuilder11]

Stone giant: throws a boulder at you you: headbutts it back at him Him: catches it

[@ericquiroz7292]

My monk caught a Boulder thrown by a stone giant. I rolled well enough to throw it back and take him out as he was low hp from our ranger. I play an Aarakocra astral monk. It's been pretty fun, I got a decent variety of magic items that help me keep up with the others in the party

[@jameswalsh4113]

4:41 I’ve always thought all monk needed was: “if you do damage to a character with a monk weapon or unarmed strike, that character cannot take opportunity attacks against you that turn”

[@MonoKabi]

That was something they relegated to a use of the Open Hand Subclass feature. There was no save for it before, even. They made it worse by requiring a Con save to make it work now. So, and other strike against my current character.

[@dimitrisdimitriadis4913]

Or: your ki points are your monk level + your Wis mod You can homebrew a couple extra changes if you want, like step of the wind doing both dash and disengage, or the MA die increase, but I feel like that one change brings the monk closer to the fighter, rogue and ranger

[@nugget0928]

Yeah. There’s no dedicated hit and run class yet, which is probably one of my favorite combat archetypes.

[@jodinsan]

So the _Mobility_ feat for free.

[@Politizer]

The Mobile feat gives you that.

[@rhydalgames5230]

My initial thought would be change flurry and patient defense themselves to no longer requiring Ki points. Each round you can choose to be a bit more damaging or a bit more tanky. That would prevent being un-monkly based on being ki starved and allow sub-classes to focus more on their unique traits (looking at you way of the four elements). My secondary thought would be to implement that idea, but further expand by allowing monks to use Ki points, up to their PB, to gain extra bonus actions. Or perhaps only each feature can be used once. So using Ki you could step of the wind, and patient defense AND flurry which using these new mechanics, would cost you 2 ki points, and make you insanely monkly for that round. IDK just a thought

[@Klaital1]

Unlimited patient defense would be pretty broken, it is a really strong ability. Flurry of Blows though should just be removed and instead just have the monks bonus action attack from martial arts to scale to give more attacks at higher levels.

[@ianweber1990]

@@Klaital1blur is a second level spell and achieves roughly the same thing (no add to dev saves) while not using a bonus action every round. I don’t think it’s broken, just good.

[@neerGdyahS]

@@Klaital1 Would it though? You'd have a class that has poor offense and defense, and can use its bonus action to improve one or the other. Which is kind of like a rogue, who can hide and attack with advantage, or attack then hide/dash to cover.

[@benkopczynski2190]

@jamesdeer3129 I might buy this thematically, but practically they don't get any of the long-range options that Clerics and Druids have. Is there something I'm missing?

[@benkopczynski2190]

I'll grant you that the elemental monk could fit this bill, but so much of the base monk is built around unarmed strikes. Yes, you can use a light crossbow, but why would you when half a dozen classes do that better?@jamesdeer3129

[@rhodridavies9426]

Main thing I would do to improve the Monk would be to say the Monk can add their Wisdom Modifier to the amount of Ki/Discipline points they have. Means you actually have some points to spend at the start of the game, and by the time you reach mid game, it doesn't matter so much anyway as you had enough anyway, now you have 2 to 4 more than you would've had. Other than that, I'd plug the short short rest and increased damage die into the 5ed class and leave it at that!

[@ajl278]

Just started a campaign playing a mercy monk and my DM added the wisdom boost to Ki. Should really help at the low levels.

[@newmanwolfry1630]

Adding wis mod to ki pool and just updating the monk damage die (pretty much 1 for 1 what the UA did) did wonders for the mercy monk in the game I run, it pretty much gives just enough of a bump to your ki pool and doesn't make it crazy as the levels ramp up.

[@agedgouda8809]

Could also do proficiency bonus instead of wisdom for scaling without asi and more multi class potential.

[@H3xx99]

Seriously, just let your monk use their monk weapon for their Martial arts. It gives them the much needed damage boost without being insanely powerful. Even if it's a gunk build. Also, to solve the lack of Discipline in the early game, make the number of points you get your Monk Level + your wisdom modifier. It gives you the necessary power boost early in the game, and a late game monk isn't going to be overpowered with 5 extra points, especially if there's a wizard in the party.

[@michaelrosebush1908]

You may think at some point someone would peruse the 2E monk and notice a logarithm that suits 5E. The incremental scale already existed, one ounce of swallowed pride is worth more than 10 pounds of reinvented wheel.

[@tacoman10]

Could you provide a link to what you're referencing?

[@michaelrosebush1908]

@@tacoman10 I am certain such a thing exists online, however I was referring to to paperback DMG /PHB. From before the internet. Internet Archive should have the pdf, but please be prepared for some mathematical chores... Unfortunately this is the precise reason ADnD progressed into a more user friendly less effort entity. Sorry, I am from the generation where the effort put into a thing is directly proportional to the reward received from said thing.

[@Top_Knite]

For a class that arguably is the coolest to play if not the strongest I gotta say "way of *blank*" is so much better than "warrior of *blank*" Weird thing to complain about but man do I hate how it rolls of the tongue lol

[@kori228]

WOTC really goofed imo, they decided to turn away and stripped the Monk of all the East Asian influence 😔 that stuff was why I liked it in the first place

[@adambielen8996]

I agree that Way of ____ sounds better. But given that DnD is played with so many species and cultures having Monks be just East Asian made them feel limiting. I ignored that with my Kensei whom I play as an European blademaster (his unarmed strikes are him using the pommel and the crossguard of his longsword). But forcing some new player to try and work out how to play a Dwarf Monk and make it sound Dwarven is asking too much of them.

[@kori228]

@@adambielen8996 "Way of __" is kinda as neutral as you could get without losing anything imo. Like "Way of the Kensei" (Way of the Sword Saint) is dedication to mastery of a sword. You could also do "Path of __", which means the same though doesn't sound as cool.

[@Top_Knite]

​@@adambielen8996 I get wanting to make it less eastern focused with name but I dont think "Way of" is exclusively eastern nor do I see how that would hinder someone making a character a certain way. Maybe been lucky but all of my players new or old have never had a problem with creativity on making their character. Like for your example you could just be a Dwarven brawler and flavor everything to how you want as long is it follows the core rules of the class. Or if your more knowledgeable of the game you would know Dwarves are fairly religious so them having monks isnt really out of place but you still dont have to play it that way. I mean by your example wouldnt the class dimply being called "Monk" be a road block for some reason? Lastly forcing a new player to try and work out anything on their own in D&D is asking too much of them lol, at that point its more of a DM issue with not working with their players to make their character work than the name of a subclass.

[@TheCrimsonRevenger]

One of Monk's biggest problems is their reliance on multiple attributes. What if they just made that a Monk's strength? Every other class is rewarded for Min-Maxing their Attributes to extremes. Reward Monks for doing exactly what their Class Lore would dictate. Reward them for balancing their stats. The same way both Wisdom and Dex add to their AC, Let monks Add both Dexterity AND Strength to their Damage/Attack rolls instead of one or the other. Let them combine Constitution and Wisdom for HP. Maybe the idea needs some tweaking, but thematically it works and i'm sure it could be made to work mechanically too.

[@raedien]

Honestly.... that'd be sick.

[@Cassiopea525]

When I played a monk, it became super viable with only one thing: I took the mobile feat as a variant human. That let me dance out of range of combat all the time and saved my ass more times than I can count. It let the paladin and barbarian tank the hits while I just, as the DM described it “had an episode of (character) slaughters everything mortal kombat style”. So just giving the monk the mobile feat as default fixes the risk issue

[@xezzee]

So wanna be Rogue with more stable and lower damage? (Rogue + Crossbow Expert) /jk Here is food for tough: 1: D10 Hit Dice (As it should be.) 2: AC 10 + Dex Mod + Proficiency Bonus. (The AC would be behing first four levels and be ahead starting lvl 9) 3: Martial Arts Dice scales from 1d4 to 1d12 (Each dice would be used for 4 levels, the dice would get better at the same time as proficiency bonus.) 4: Flurry of Blows cost 0 Ki, but then you must nerf Stunning Strike. Either Stunning Strike once a turn or requires a Bonus Aciton. (Both nerfs limit the use for once a turn but the latter also prevents using Flurry of Blows with Stunning Strike.) 5: Gift the Monk Ring of Protection and Cloak of Protection. (Extra AC helps a lot and Monk can use both of them. Tough I bet both Paladin and Barbarian would steal them!) 6: Gift the Monk unarmed weapons like +1, +2, +3 magical Gauntlets, perhaps even Hidden Blades or Wolverine Blades. (This would give Monk's unarmed strikes the same +1, +2, +3 bonus other martial classes get and it still would be behind Fighter. This is basically what Focused Aim is trying to be.) 7: Ki save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Dexterity modifier? (This would remove the need for any Wisdom and now you would only need to focus Dex/Con just like any other melee class.) Beside the last one (7) I would implement all of those for my players if they played Monk. It would be hilarious to gift Monk hidden blades or wolverine claws that counts as unarmed strike and have properties of Flame Tongue 🤣

[@chiepah2]

If they want to artificially impose time limits they should allow monk points to modify the abilities something like "Ability - does this thing once per turn, if you spend a monk point you can do it harder/better/faster/stronger" This way you can still do the thing but not as well as if you could spend a monk point.

[@asgenkarlson2703]

Ah yes, this is now the "Daft Monk" subclass. They're well known Around the World doing Homework.

[@controlcore1]

​@@asgenkarlson2703 aw man i miss when Daft Monk was still Alive, i really wanted to see them One More Time but i guess everyone dies eventually. they were Human After All, i suppose

[@AtomicUki]

I don't know who the people are that create this game, but this feels very much like we're going to show the worst possible choice of abilities so that whatever really comes out will seem so much better even though it's probably written not as good.

[@SvenTSexgore]

Honestly I always thought there should be an option for Monks that allows them to use Wisdom in place of Con when it comes to determining HP. So you get that visibly frail looking enlightened master who can still take (and give) a massive beating.

[@BlackKnightPZ]

Back when I used to run 5e, I cut the amount of ki points gained at later levels in half, but gave them some additional rules. Ki points automatically recharge to full after combat, and the monk can burn a standard action to get half (minimum 1) of their Ki points back in combat.

[@yugijak]

I love this idea Instead of just bigger capacity focus on mechanics that reward you with resources in different ways

[@henryjones3232]

Fix monks by giving them a line of text at level 1 or 2 that says “at the end of your turn, if you did not spend a ki point this turn, you regain one ki point”

[@blackpeoplestorytime802]

I think that if you made heightened metabolism a multiple use a day feature like wild shapes, rage, channel divinity and second wnd like the eest of the UA classes it could be a good defining class feature that is considered a monk essential. Then just raise the hit die and turn deflect missiles into DEFLECT. making it so you can use it on melee attacks as well and return a melee attack if you reduce it to zero at the cost of a ki point.

[@matthewdavid8721]

i think switching it with the lvl 2 feature would help a lot and base it on the wisdom mod per day min 1 and upgrade the lvl 2 to (15 or 20) feet and mabie add back in the poison resist and immunity but it 100% needs to be earlier because those are the levels that suck for the ki points

[@apollyon1]

Did you just Invent dnd ju Jitsu?

[@alfonsocruz6100]

YES... finally. The stunning strike limitation is so baaaad, it would be okay if you increased the Monk's max Ki points. It feels like they forget that at high levels spellcaster can do GOD like stuff and monk always seems soooo normal in a bad way. I'm playing a Monk character and the only reason why my friends and I love him and think he is Badass is because I roleplay like crazy (for fun) so it sounds cooler than it is, I just punch every turn tbh :') (Way of the astral self is so cool theme wise, love that Jojo's bizarre adventure ref potential). Hope WoTC watches this video and the player's feedback

[@ericpeterson8732]

Don't compare casters to martials. Martials will ALWAYS LOSE in that comparison. It's two different playstyles.

[@alfonsocruz6100]

@@ericpeterson8732 Fair, but I'm sure you and everyone else still get my point, even againts other martial classes, the monk needs a lot to "work properly"

[@Atalas5]

for the Monk I'm playing, I am godly because it is nigh-impossible to sneak up on me. Passive Perception of 34, access to Truesight, the DM has to get really creative to ambush us. Or just give up on doing that and throw some insane things at us.

[@skippy9273]

I was so demoralized by the time I was done reading monk, I skipped past paladin and just stopped there. It isn't just underpowered, it's souless. They took away the monk's identity and weakened it without fixing any of its problems and making some others worse.

[@thanesgames9685]

SAme as they did for the druid.

[@GrimViridian]

​@@thanesgames9685what? Druid is great wym? Unless you're talking about the test beast template one, the newest version seems great

[@thanesgames9685]

@@GrimViridian Newest version looks to be the worst of all editions of the game.

[@GrimViridian]

@@thanesgames9685 how? I watched two youtubers talk about it earlier and literally everything was good, having the choice to get medium armor prof and martial weapons, do extra elemental melee damage getting commune with nature and speak with animals as a feature, they actually found a decent balance for moon druids (though they either need more powerful beasts or elementals again) but the melee damage buff helps that a lot too, plus the option to do radiant damage when wildshaped

[@condimentking3395]

I read the dance bard, and I immediately went straight to monk, and that's how I stopped reading. If I wanted to play a monk, I'd just play a bard, and I'd be able to theme stuff better than the actual monk class. That was crazy disheartening

[@jeffbinning1244]

Another idea to boost defense: make Unarmored Defense=10+Dex mod+Wis mod+Prof Bonus. Gives an immediate +2 (so many would start with a 17 or 18, comparable to med or heavy armor) and would end with a 26 (comparable to magic heavy armor plus a magic shield.)

[@atingley0913]

I really think a subclass that just let's you add Weapon properties (finesse, heavy, two handed, reach, etc) would be amazing. Become a Lotus assassin from the Jade Empire xbox game by letting the monk sneak attack with fists. Let them be a heavyweight boxer by being able to use great weapon master. Let monks do the fun things too!

[@aaronwik6799]

Hopefully if Kensei gets a boost, it adds all those weapon properties, especially since the "special" property doesn't really exist anymore (lance/net being changed).

[@neerGdyahS]

I was toying around with a swordmaster rogue that give finesse to longswords amongst other boosts. Since rogues can use longswords for some reason.

[@EpicRandomness555]

I think we can live with the low AC as long as the Monk gets bumped to a D10 hit die like the other martials. Then give one or two more Discipline points to start with, make it so you can only Stun one creature per turn, instead of attempt to stun and we’re doing pretty good.

[@ravenstales6457]

So you see, in a homebrew monk subclass I made, they have a feature where you can forgo a ki point, or recharge them, by expending 1d4 hp, and they add constitution to wisdom based rolls.

[@VasiliyOgniov]

Its quite clever workaround, actually. You kinda push your own body to the limit, which leads to you being much more powerful, yet depletes your body's resources. I would probably even make it just a general class feature, because being 1d8 hp melee martial character, you have pretty limited amount of health which will force you to play more strategically but overall drastically increase your fighting capabilities. The more I think about it, the more I want to steal this idea for my own campaign

[@DrPluton]

I feel like Discipline points should be only used for utility or for offense, not both. If so many features can eat into one resource that is extremely limited, it makes them play and feel pretty bland. You're right in that we need some greatness in this class. I watched Ip Man a couple years ago and thought "Why doesn't the Open Fist monk have that kind of offensive and defensive skill?" Edit: Typo

[@beetlejuss]

Hahaha Open Fish Monk!

[@mformewtwo]

A monk slapping people around with a fish is a pretty funny image. Hahaha!

[@EMBer3000]

I thought the way one guy I know balanced the monk was pretty good (as DM). He just added an extra bonus action to the end of each monks turn where they could only move away from enemies. He also gave the monk a little extra movement so that they nearly always could move further and faster than anyone else. His argument for this was always, "You ever see a martial arts movie where the protagonist wasn't the fastest asshole in the room?" One group he always talks about caught on and built an entire group of monks, where two of them multiclassed to give a little variety in skills. They had a whole shtick worked out with lots of quotes from Kwai Chang Caine and other martial arts masters from tv and stuff to fill the dialogue with. Sounds like they had lots of fun.

[@camillomir]

In my campaigns i adjust them with a pair of adjustement: first from level 1 they regain a Ki point for every nat 20 on attakcs or when they make a creature drop to 0 HP, the second was to enhance the martial dice. I think they work pretty well like that

[@killcat1971]

To "fix" the Monk, hit die D10, Step of the wind reads "You may Dash or Disengage as a bonus action, you may spend a point of Discipline to both Dash AND Disengage, in addition you double your jump distance for the remainder of your turn", gain 1AC to your Unarmored Defense at levels 6, 12 and 18, you may Patient Defense as a reaction. This will help a lot.

[@nugget0928]

Ive always liked the idea of monks being able to regain small amounts of ki when they do things like land multiple attacks in one turn or crit with an unarmed strike.

[@Cosmic_K13]

So like a combo system? Hit 3 attacks in one turn and get a ki point back? I like it.

[@yunfanz]

Yah I really like this idea too. Like say every three attacks that hit will recover a ki point for every combat encounter. Maybe crit will count as 2 hits.

[@Drekromancer]

@@Cosmic_K13 There's no momentum-based system like that in D&D so far. But you make it sound like there should be. It'd be so interesting and new!

[@nikx]

Some of those conditions could also be specific to a subclass, like shadow monk doing something while in darkness/dim light

[@murilosampaio1264]

I came to the idea that the Monkbcould gain their ki back if they deal a total amount of damage equals to half the monk's hp

[@rangofandango3653]

My biggest peeve of these changes is that shadow monks seem to lose the other spells now its just darkness, but you can move it and see through it. You could already move it if you got creative with how you cast it so losing the other spells just to gain the sight while in darkness seems like way too steep a price.

[@JoshuaSmith-hl1xj]

Yeah I really loved my yuan ti mage slayer with the 1 level fighter dip for whip proficiency and d8 unarmed strikes.

[@cmdrvimes72]

There's been a lot of power policing in the playtest so far, like how hex and hunter's mark still require concentration but also became "you get some sneak attack damage"

[@Seoul_Soldier]

We house rule a few simple things for monk. Level 1: Battle Meditation. If you take no other action in combat the monk can center themselves, focusing their body's mystical energy. You regain any ki/discipline points spent in the current encounter, but cannot use any ki-powered abilities on your next turn. Focus can also be used to regain ki while out of combat. Level 4: Steel Wind. Deflect missiles does not cost ki to do, and can be done multiple times per turn based on proficiency bonus. Level 8: Stance of the Hungry Ghost. Mimicking the soul stealing monsters of yore, you can steal the fleeing life force of the foes you defeat in battle, invigorating your own spirit. When you knock a foe unconscious or kill them, make a DC 15 WIS save. On a success, regain two if the killing blow was dealt with a ki-empowered ability. I also give shadow warrior monks a weaker version of the rogue's sneak attack, bringing back "Sudden Strike". The only caveat is that you have to attack from the darkness you create or after a teleport. Monk gets the short end of the stick, but I am always willing to make them play better if someone wants to run one in my games.

[@NobodyDungeons]

I have three changes which makes monks far more viable. First, they have a D10 hit die because they should of had it in the first place. Second, they’re third level ability allows them to add half their proficiency bonus rounded down to the attack and damage rolls with unarmed and monk weapons. Third, they can add their wisdom modifier to their ki point total. Edit: Additional changes you may want to make are upping the monk dice starting at a d6 moving to a d12 not unlike the one D&D variant. You may also want to allow them to make attacks with their monk weapons when using their martial arts and flurry of blows features instead of only unarmed strikes. This will make bow monks far more viable, and will make weapon use for incentivized in general. This makes the monks even better damage dealers without completely breaking the class.

[@drahcir7x23]

Here's an idea that I've been going through. Ki-enhanced Abilities, all of the monk features are free, but using Ki empowers them (E.g. Step of the Wind usually uses a Bonus Action for free, but if you burn a Ki point, it's free like Tabaxi feature).

[@bananabanana484]

Here’s an Idea: At lv 2, give monks 5 Ki. Then, at level 6 when they get enhanced metabolism, start giving them 1 ki per level. Fixes the problem

[@mohammadmurie]

or just have it be basically monk level + wis mod and there we go that should help a lot

[@matthewdykeman8149]

​@@mohammadmurieMake it level + proficiency bonus. 4 points is great at 2nd lvl and proficiency bonus scales without needing investment.

[@mohammadmurie]

@matthewdykeman8149 true but still either or would help so much woth the early game ki point shortage as adding 2 or 3 ki points along with the initial 2 goes a long way at that level, and added in that 7th level feature earlier as honestly wouldn't be to much and make it several uses per long rest as it looks like monks are the only short rest class left and to help stop dragging the party to rest after every encounter helps

[@remyb6854]

​@mohammadmurie thats what I do in my games and it is a fantastic homebrew adjustment. I can't recommend it enough.

[@remyb6854]

​@matthewdykeman8149 the ability already scales. Tying it to wis mod fits the theme and story/lore of what ki is. Proficiency bonus has nithing to do with it.

[@kaneicosasrandom8630]

Here's a little homebrew I've come up with, I don't know how you think about it. Each Skill that requires Ki points, has "two ways" to activate. 1. Completely free, but giving a small penalty. 2. Using ki points to avoid suffering the penalty. For example: Flurry of Blows can be used for free but is penalized by subtracting -1 from the attack roll. Patient Defense can be used for free, but if you are hit the damage taken is increased by +1 for that turn. Step of the Wind can be used for free, but it takes a -1 penalty to your AC that turn. Obviously, if you decide to spend the ki points, you will not receive any penalty.

[@thewarstoryteller9900]

What if the penalty is made from your proficiency bonus x 2? That way starting monks will have not much of a problem with the ki points

[@thewarstoryteller9900]

And when you are higher in levels you still won't have much of a problem cuz u will have more ki points

[@kaneicosasrandom8630]

@@thewarstoryteller9900 Perhaps, although it would be strange and even funny to think that the more experience and skill monks has, the worse they performs their techniques. Maybe I should add that there are techniques that necessarily spend Ki points, being mostly techniques that feel "supernatural" like the blow that can kill you instantly or the features that allow the Monk to use spells.

[@Hyatice]

Just a thought based on what I've read of the 'general' rules, a monk is now better off using two light weapons than going unarmed. Because you could, in theory, do 5 attacks at level 5 using 1 ki point, or 4 attacks using 0. You can even get pretty crafty with it: > unarmed shove prone, light attack, light attack, flurry > throw a dagger/hand axe, throw a net (Same hand), off-hand dagger/hand axe, flurry Unless I'm reading it wrong, monks would be the only class capable of getting 4 attacks at level 5 (barring action surge), let alone 5 attacks. Since the above is possible and fairly strong at low levels, I'd push for allowing a free unarmed strike as part of their attack action (using similar rules to light weapons, and a caveat that you can't stack them). So they could attack 4 times per turn w/o using ki, and 5 times using ki. If that winds up being too strong, then maybe get rid of the bonus action punch and keep flurry, or get rid of flurry and keep the bonus action punch. So monks would always get 3 attacks and can spend a ki to do 3+2 attacks, or monks always get 3+1 attacks and don't have to spend resources to do so.

[@kori228]

took a read myself yesterday, but my takeaways are definitely it got nerfed: Buffed: - MA die scales to d12, finally - Capstone is actually cool now Nerfed: - Ribbon abilities Tongue of the Sun and Moon and Timeless Body removed - Astral Self no longer grants invisibility (no advantage on all attacks and disadvantage on attacks against you) Not fixed: - still lacking ki - Bonus Action still monopolized by Flurry - Step of the Wind still costs Ki Dumb changes: - Ki got renamed to Discipline points 😔 - Subclass names changed from "Way of..." to "Warrior of...", which is stupid - Ki-Empowered Strikes went from overcoming all non-magical resistance to only choosing between Force and physical. There's no creature that has both iirc, but it's just less cool. Overall, basically nothing really changed in the way the class functions in 5e-no new features that define (or redefine) its role more clearly, or separate it from others

[@xezzee]

You don't use Step of the Wind because Flurry of Blows needs your limited Ki so just make Flurry of Blows Free. The problem is most people would still rather take two extra attacks than Dodge even if both were free Bonus Action 😂 but by removing the Ki cost from Flurry of Blows it opens more optiosn for Monks.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

Since they refresh after a short rest, I think one thing they can do is treat Discipline / Spirit / Focus / Ki or whatever like reloading a resource. Use a smaller pool, but just have the rule that you recover half your Focus pool if you end your Turn without spending any Focus, or all of it if you spend an Action to refocus. This gives it more of a push and pull and makes that range 2 to 20 less goofy. AND this removed the short rest design. Just a few seconds of refocusing.

[@Camthalion666]

"Superior defence" indeed... I think Monks at 18th level should just get the Foresight spell once/day. Now THAT would truly feel like you've unlocked your chakras, achieved super saiyan, sage mode or whatever. For earlier levels, I like Colby's suggestion of number of ki points being equal to lvl +proficiency. Or maybe Wisdom. Perhaps also a feature which allow them to take more reactions, like the Cobalt Soul Monk.

[@Trokkin]

At our local mass player multiple GMs 5e campaign, we considered how to homebrew monk's durability. First thought -- give them d12 hit dice -- like barbarians, but they do it through practice and purity of body. Second thought which we ended up using -- make deflect missiles target any physical attack. Makes it much like Intercept fighting style, but self-centered and more powerful. Having playtested it, monks are still vulnerable to magic and multiple attacks, but they are now comfortable going melee alongside heavy plated paladins. We also increased Ki by PB, so they don't shy using dodge in dire situations.

[@xezzee]

Here is alternative list of ideas which I probably would use if any of my players played Monk: Gift some Magical items to help the Monk. +1, +2 or +3 magical Gauntlets which just buff the Unarmed Strikes. Both Ring and Cloak of Protections. Amulet of Health and Belt of Dwarvenkind can up the HP. (Magical items can be used to "hot fix" the Monk but do remember other players might also want those items D10 Hit dice. (As it should be, D12 sounds interesting also but imo it should be same as Ranger/Fighter) AC 10 + Dex Mod + PB. (Beside first four levels it would be equal or better than current. You could alos remove the need for Wisdom by making Ki save DC be Dex instead of Wis, but that is perhaps too far? It would make it similar to Barbarian who only needs Str and Con now you would only need Dex and Con) Deflect Missile could be Deflect Attacks, as a Reaction you can add Martial Dice Roll to your AC until the start of your next turn. (Basically mix of Shield spell and Evasive Footwork maneuver from Battle Master) Martial Arts Dice scales up the same time as Proficiency Bonus going from 1d4 to 1d12 (This just slighly improves the dmg on later levels) Flurry of Blows 0 Ki but Stunning Strike is now Bonus Action still requiring 1 Ki. (By making FoB free you should at least limit Stunning Strike Once a Turn, else it would be too strong) If you want to give more Ki I think Level + Wis mod + PB would also work. (That would be 7 starting Ki instead of 2 or 4 and end up with 31) But maybe adding all this would make them too strong?

[@Trokkin]

​@@xezzee to put them on par with others, it should be enough to up their damage die like OneD&D playtest suggested (start with d6 end with d12), add something for melee protection, and they will be on par with other martials. Feedback: I like low-magic fantasy, and don't like magic items as character ability replacement. As a hot-fix maybe. Just raising monk's HP doesn't give them value actually. They need damage block, resistance, or at least AC boost. Changing AC to Dex+PB is not enough a change to actually consider remembering it. Maybe if you want to untie Monk as a class from Wisdom -- then it's a fine fix, but remember to change Save DC to Dex. Then mechanics to AC boosting is boring IMO and leaves monks extremely vulnerable to critical hits. Deflect Missiles doesn't raise AC, it blocks damage, "Deflect Attacks" should too, or be renamed to avoid confusion. And I am playing a monk for all this time with rules I wrote -- I deflect almost all weapon damage if I'm careful to not be targeted by several enemies at once. It's rewarding to play in this clever way. Having d4 die is sad these first levels, I'm just telling. If you just up the dice one step from og progression. Free flurry is overkill. They have "the dual wield fighting style" built in already, and this will put them far ahead of any other fighter type. Maybe consider adding an extra attack to flurry on later (5+) levels. You can limit stunning strike to once per turn. Also you can increase its cost to 2. Adding two modifiers to Ki is definitely overkill. Having just +PB is enough and makes them much more viable as a multiclass dip. How often do you allow short rests? I usually consider one battle per short rest, maybe its much more rare and you're trying to compensate? Or you just want free abilities for monk? Another cool OneD&D suggestion is to merge their Dash and Disengage options into one 1-ki bonus action.

[@nickb3164]

random idea that im writing down: at the start of each round of combat monks get 1d4 "evasion attempt" points, reset to zero at the end of each round if they go unused. they can use one of these points to attempt a saving throw against one enemy's attack, and can attempt to dodge the same attack as many times as they want. at higher levels they can gain additional evasion attempt points and gain special situational bonuses with a certain subclass maybe. this would make the monk a powerhouse against small numbers of enemies, but would still be squishy when it comes to large groups.

[@forzoltan9357]

Our solution was to add wis mod/2 rounded up ki points at the bottom of the pool of ki. This resets on long rest. So if you really need it you can choose to not suck at least once a day. Stunning strike probably needs a rework though. One thing to note as well is that One DND grapple/shove/knock prone heavily benefits unarmed fighting.

[@gavinbrown216]

But grapple/shove relies on strength

[@forzoltan9357]

Well hell it's been reverted. Monks needed something too. In that case I'd change the language for monks to allow dex to replace str for the saving throw DC, as you're using a Dex attack to cause the effect. Edit: I liked it better when it was just an unarmed attack vs AC.

[@jurakarok3343]

Here's an idea for monks. Since short rests are no longer a main component: Monks gain their proficiency bonus in ki/discipline points per turn. So a level 1 monk can use 2 ki every turn. Also revert stunning strike so it can be made to work with 1 success per turn. Finally grant a feat that lets monks use ki/discipline points perform additional opportunity attacks. Now your monks can act like mystical martials instead of wary warriors. Do you use all your ki now, or save some for opportunity attacks and defensive maneuvers.

[@iselreads2908]

Honestly, part of me feels like maybe WoTC should just find a way to make Monk a Fighter subclass since they just can't seem to figure out what they want to do with it as a class

[@THEGRUMPTRUCK]

They admitted a long time ago that they are "afraid" of making the Monk like how martial artists were portrayed in 80's and 90's action movies. Pretty much anyone playing a monk wants to be able to do that sort of shit. Heck the lore for the class states that Monks utilize Ki and perfection of self to do insane things. But WotC was afraid of them being "too good."

[@kori228]

imo merge non-magical unarmed into Fighter, and let Monk go full anime

[@user-pi8pi3wj7h]

god please no, I get where you're coming from but we can't let them give up on monk yet

[@skippy9273]

This monk reads like WotC is embarrassed by monk's existence. They have no vision or original ideas here. The main thing they did was peel away flavor and make some nerfs

[@Camthalion666]

I kind of agree that there's room for a Pugilist fighter subclass, for those who want a more heavy boxer feel. And it should probably be able to both dish out and take on more raw damage than the Monk. Then give Monks a solid base as a slippery striker with high mobility and some utility, and give them offensive options via subclass based on what flavor of anime or wuxia craziness you want.

[@Axel-zc6xj]

The one fix that I've made to monks that my friends seem to enjoy is to change the scaling of Ki (discipline) points to 3x proficiency bonus. This means you get 6 at level 2, scaling to 18 by level 17. They also keep scaling when multiclassing in or out of monks. This way you can still have monk functions, but pure monks still have stronger martial arts die.

[@dimiaraujo90]

An idea that would probably help Monks a lot: if they multiclass into any Spellcaster, they can trade spell slots for Ki points.

[@apollyon1]

I’ve just made a sunk (sorcerer monk) that relies on this!

[@sath2749]

I think a big fix to the Ki or now discipline points is to start with wisdom modifier plus level. That way you don't have to take a short break after every fight.

[@geltric4779]

So close to mark with this one, I think. I'd probably change one thing and the rest of the class would be pretty good I think: make the 7th lvl ability 'Heightened Metabolism' and make it a 3rd level ability instead. I'd probably also add that it gets additional uses with your prof. bonus (or a set number but def more than 1) per long rest. This way, your monk can go all out with ki points in a single fight, maintaining damage and doing cool monk stuff, and then short rest his KI points back without bothering the party for it.

[@dragos26]

That s also a thing I thought, just get it at level 3 and give it wisdom mod usese per long rest. That way you also feel a little better about being MAD

[@derangedcomics]

In the old AD&D Oriental Adventures book, there was actually a system for creating your own martial arts style. I was actually kind of hoping we'd see something like that. Maybe not as a base class feature because that might throw too many other things out of whack but maybe purchased as a feat, for instance. I still love the monk class but it's been hard to get excited about these last few years.

[@soMeRandoM670]

How did that system work? Making own martial arts

[@thanesgames9685]

6E is all about making things more generic. Customized styles? Please.

[@derangedcomics]

@@soMeRandoM670 As I recall, it was a point system. Some effects were cheap. Some effects were expensive (ie. more powerful). I think you did have some restrictions based on whether your style was: 1.) Offensive. 2.) Defensive. 3.) Balanced. I remember liking it a lot as a kid. (I actually liked the whole book a lot.)

[@CaptMytre]

For anyone wondering what the anime/show is at 6:15/6:30, it is "Voltron: Legendary Defender", specifically episode 3. It isn't a full show set in a fantasy setting. @DnDshorts you should really credit audio and visuals in your videos.

[@bobbyshumaker4978]

An easy fix is to have the monk features be free to use up until you pb, then cost discipline. That way, discipline can be used on the subclass features slowing for more variety between the subclasses. Or just limit the number of uses per turn and make them accessible at all times.

[@agilemind6241]

Honestly, they could just make monk features at will at this point. They are all limited by your action economy now anyway, so why add a limited resource to keep track of on top of it? Rogue got a ton of cool features that don't require resources, why does the monk still have to be limited to DPs?

[@ticozayas6430]

With as weak as monk is I had a dm, nerf stunning strikes to once a turn, and it only lasted until the end of the monk's turn making the monk the only person that could benefit from the stun... it was garbage and made the monk so much worse...

[@JoeLikesBlue]

I hate when DM’s try and reign in the Monk’s only feature that stands out among martial classes, like they suck everywhere else so let them have this caster level power when it so rarely lands while still consuming resources.

[@higherqi13]

One monk nerf that is not so obvious in the most recent playtest is that previously, at character origins, you could pick any first level feat which included fighting styles like Archery and dueling. Now the fighting style feats have a prerequisite which makes its so Monk's can't qualify for those feats ever. Even at later levels. They also took away shortsword from the simple weapons chart. Take that monk!😢😓

[@colerandolf1393]

One of my favorite rules to let monks take maore of an edge to damage is; rather than upgrading your damage die, you roll an additional d4, which gives a pretty nice average damage to each unarmed strike, and if your punching,your not using ki

[@patrickmcathey7081]

I think you hit the nail on the head, The simple fact we need to look at high level marshal classess and say do I think this is comparable to casting WISH.

[@Marb315]

I'm looking forward to how the monk is implemented in Baldur's Gate 3, Larian has done a great job so far in reworking things to be more balanced

[@vonnegutfrey8714]

They should remove Disaplin points and have all discipline point actions tied to bones actions. That way you can only do one per turn, making you pick and choose, and you can always do your thing without running out of Disaplin.

[@SimonClarkstone]

I was hoping that you'd regain one expended Ki at the start of each turn. It gives you a plentiful supply and decouples from Short Rests. Deflecting attack-roll spells is nice though!

[@railroadbluesy2169]

A cool way to fix monks being undeprowered that I have seen used is to give a far lower amount of ki points but you recover them every round. Levels 1-4 you get only 1, but it lets you use flurry of blows every round. You then get 2, then 3 and then 4 and apparently 5 at level 20 (never played that far in the guys campaign). It lets you do cooler stuff and helps you keep up with the other classes pretty well. He also allowed the monks to take custom feats that had creative ways to use ki points that were really useful out of combat, making monks have utility as well.

[@El-Comment-8-or]

As a grognard who started back in the 80’s, the problem is that no one at WOTC is old enough to understand the monk class. With each new version of DND they basically took something the Monk was the King at and gave it to another class or subclass. At this point there is nothing the monk can do that someone else can’t do better. Basically the monk was never a big damage dealer. They made a lot of attacks and had good Thaco, so when no one else could hit the thing, the Monk was old reliable. They also had good AC, but that wasn’t what was important. Back then a lot of magic and monsters could ignore platemail and hit your fighter regardless. The monk on the other hand was just always hard to hit no matter who or what was attacking them, thus the low hp. They also had incredible saving throws, meaning any form of attack often missed the monk. So the monk was always the sole survivor of what otherwise would have been a TPK. They also had incredible movement, and could get to spots others could not. This gave them some great out of combat options. The Ranger and Rogue are now far better than the monk in this regard. And all casters even more so. My fix… all monks get the mobile feat… they add prof bonus to AC, and damage rolls. And proficiency in all saving throws. I’m fine with stunning strike being once a turn, but it should only be on a successful hit. Or at least don’t steal a KI point on a failure. And then I’d give them an ability to regain KI (or whatever new name you have for it) as an action. So they always have full points at the start of any fight, and can take a breather round to get them back. Melee characters should have minimal resource management! Of course these things would be given as the monk progresses in levels. (I would also give the monk a reliable way to have advantage, but in 5e if you don’t already have advantage, either you or someone in your party isn’t playing optimally.

[@M72-p6u]

As someone who has played a monk, just give them more ki points (as everyone always says) and gove them the 1min short rest from level 1 or 2. Also maybe give them a bit more life but that’s not that much of an issue, at least for me as my DM is the kind of person to attack depending on your hit points (which I enjoy as much as otherwise).

[@steel5315]

1st Edit: The more I think about it, maybe it'd be better if they just got rid of Disicpline points on most of the Monks abilities like Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike should cost Discipline but Step of the Wind shouldn't tbh. That combined with maybe having a number of Discipline points equal to their Monk level + their Wisdom Modifier would probably fix the majority of their problems. Also Dashing and Disengaging as a bonus action is already something Rogues can do for free so see no reason why it should cost Monks a resource to do it.

[@oshermdaddy2058]

I agree with the majority, but the difference is for the UA monks is that their disengage and dash are one unique bonus action. Where rogue can only choose to do one or the other one the bonus action. But ya, I think it probably just should be free, or at least let it be free at higher levels.

[@DavidPetersonAU]

Yeah, it should be free. Playing as a monk at the moment, and the most fun I have is moving around the battlefield and causing chaos. My actual damage is pretty low, but mobility gives some versitility.

[@jedwilson8981]

I made a pdf that fixes a lot of the Monks issues that are still present in this playtest on my account's "About", but I can't share it in comments, because youtube hates links 🤦.

[@RealPhuggly]

One of the players at my table plays a monk, because our DM made some changes that work pretty well. 1st. Martial Arts gives 1 free (not bonus action) unarmed attack with the attack action. Patient Defense and Step of the Wind no longer cost Ki. This lets him all out attack with flurry of blows for 5 attacks using bonus action, or he defensive with free Dodge as a bonus action, or be super maneuverable with disengage or dash for a bonus action. Only one stunning strike per turn, but can spend an additional 2 Ki for automatic success. At first blush, this seemed a bit OP, but it takes 4 Ki to get a guaranteed must have stunning strike. We’re lvl 8, so half his Ki for a 1 round stun is costly.

[@chrisflagg1329]

My simple fix that I’ve been homebrewing for years was adding the characters Widom modifier as a bonus to the Ki point pool in addition to adding the proficiency bonus to it. Basically level+wis mod+proficiency =ki pool in my campaign. I also created a recovery potion for half the price of a healing potion that grants characters the benefits of a short rest with the exception of fatigue recovery.

[@HunterTracks]

The monk "fixes" in the current playtest are the definition of "using a bandaid to heal a gunshot wound". At least it hasn't been taken out back and put out of its misery like ranger and paladin, I guess.

[@mugenokami2201]

Yet

[@Phiro00]

both paladin and ranger have been severly buffed due to weapon mastery tho. that feature improves consistent damage AND adds resource-free utility.

[@floriansanial2694]

​​​@@Phiro00t paladin action economy as been flipped... before it was no possible BA, and now we have to choose between smite or LoH or some good spels such as spiritual weapon or healing word... And they lost cantrips again!

[@HunterTracks]

​@@Phiro00Except that those masteries were supposed to make up for nerfs to Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master, so them being included just barely brings those classes back to baseline, if even that.

[@Phiro00]

@@HunterTracks thats just not true at all. Weapon masteries bring average damage far above what GWM and Sharpshooter used to bring. The math doesnt lie, it doesnt just make up for the feat nerfs, it far outpaces the power those feats used to bring.

[@majorasmask5523]

I like the Sun Soul monk, with a few levels in Zealot Barb. 25 ac with awesome holy attacks is fun, especially as an Aasimar.

[@KingdomDestin]

How do you have that AC the 2 unarmed defense feats do not stack. You have to choose 1 of them

[@majorasmask5523]

@@KingdomDestin Says who? I’ve never seen any rule that says that.

[@maybevoldemort8995]

In terms of where, last paragraph describing armour class on of 14 of the PHB. You have to choose one source of defence. Most characters do this, choosing to determine their armour class using their armour rather than their base armour class of 10+dex

[@maybevoldemort8995]

Also, this is very much in the realm of DM fiat as it is the stupid wording of 5e, but RAW zealot’s damage wouldn’t stack on the sun soul monk’s attack because it isn’t a weapon attack

[@NovelVanguard]

I wonder how a monk that could regain Ki points after hitting an enemy would do. Like you can’t ever go above your maximum number of Ki points but at least this way you probably wouldn’t run out and even if you do just hit someone

[@jicao]

If you dont run out, theres no point of ki points

[@NovelVanguard]

@@jicao maybe tie them to a wisdom or dexterity saving throw and you only regain Ki points if the enemy fails that throw

[@AgentForest]

My personal Monk homebrew fixes: 1. Flurry of Blows doesn't cost any resources to use, and scales in number of bonus action attacks at the same levels as Fighter Extra Attack. It also doesn't require taking the attack action that turn. 2. Step of the Wind and Patient Defense are gone, since you're using your bonus action to attack, your main action is freed up for those actions anyway. 3. Stunning Strike no longer costs a Ki point. Instead, if you hit an enemy using Flurry of Blows strikes that you already hit at least once with an unarmed or Monk Weapon strike, they now have to roll the Con save for Stunning Strike. This generally is once per turn, but scales as you level. With 3 Flurry of Blows strikes at 11, you could do it twice if all attacks land, and become more reliable at this when you have 4 bonus action attacks. 4. Ki Points = Wisdom Mod + Proficiency Bonus. It's a reduction, but you're using them far less with the first three changes, and you have far more of them early. 5. Ki Points are used for subclass features, and have more persistent effects. Each subclass gets a one-point stance they can enter that gives bonuses for one minute unique to the subclass, and as a baseline all monks can spend a Ki point to heal like a Second Wind type mechanic. Subclasses would also get other features to spend Ki points on, but these features will be cheaper since you have fewer max Ki points. A lot of the subclass Ki-expending abilities would be on-par with spells, and use the main action, allowing you to still be a monk even when doing subclass things, like casting Darkness, Four Element spells (upgraded to be actual spell casting like for Eldritch Knight Fighters, that Ki points can also cast), etc.

[@johndeyoung2459]

I had a thought on the whole Ki point shortage problem a while ago. 1. Ki points are tied to wisdom modifiers 2. Replenish 1d4 after every fight or 2a. Replenish one ki point after defeating a single opponent.

[@dreader102]

You should definitely do a combo short about the new Way of the Four Elements Monk's pushing/pulling ability paired with a Druid/Ranger's Spike Growth. If there's no limit per turn, that's an easy 40 feet of movement, which if I'm remembering correctly would be 16d4 piercing damage from the thorns.

[@neerGdyahS]

I think many people would argue that being flung by an air fist or most other long distance pushing abilities don't count as moving along the ground.

[@dreader102]

@@neerGdyahS it works with the eldritch blast evocations and any other type of forced movement, so I don't see why not

[@neerGdyahS]

​@@dreader102 It's mostly ones that also knock you prone, because even though it isn't specified you're travelling mostly above the ground. If I used fist of unbroken air to push someone 60 feet, fully past the spike growth and prone, should that deal 16d4 damage? For a homebrew rule, I'd limit forced movement through movement hazards at 10 ft of damage if it knocks you prone. But on the flipside, I also consider forced movement into walls as a fall equal to the wasted movement +5 ft. PS: Baldurs Gate 3 is similar, you travel through the air when shoved or such. Can't remember how Solasta handles it.

[@dreader102]

@@neerGdyahS eh idk. My reasoning is that it works with every other forced movement, at least in RAW, and when DnDShorts makes "Weird Things You Can Do In D&D," it's usually abusing some RAW.

[@neerGdyahS]

@@dreader102 That's completely fair and valid, my tables just tend to cut down on anything that seems like an exploit, or doesn't make much sense to us. Rulings > RAW. EDIT DISCLAIMER: We don't eliminate exploits (tactics), just the ones that leave us going "wait is that right?"

[@elmsigreen]

I kinda wish Four Elements Monk had some sort of specialization feature where you could choose to be JUST an Airbender or Firebender etc. I wanted to create a Waterbender in the past and I decided to pick the Astral Self and just flavored the arms and stuff as water instead of picking the Four Elements Monk. It's the same with Sun Soul which is a better Firebender and Open Hand which could be an Airbender (Or just pick Astral Self and flavored it into wind-arms).

[@A3Nargi]

Monk has been my favorite class to play from a flavor standing. But it absolutely struggles the entire way. We will go as far as home brewing rules not to improve the monk beyond the rest of the party but to improve it enough to keep up with the rest of the party. Because d&d treats the monk like magic the gathering treats the color white.

[@proclarushtaonasat]

well, monks arent really supposed to go on epic adventures. being a monk is a religious way of life, in which one renounces worldly pursuits to devote oneself fully to spiritual work. they may practice martial arts, but mostly as a form of meditation. from a lore point of view it makes sense, that they dont dual class well (dedication to a single purpose), and only get good really late (you are supposed to dedicate your entire life to eventually reach enlightenment).

[@A3Nargi]

@@proclarushtaonasat if you intend to stick with nothing but pure classical accurate history and apply it to a world full of nothing but fantasy, then I would suppose you're correct.

[@Flamme-Sanabi]

@@proclarushtaonasat but under monks are also martial artists without a religious purpose, no? At least that would be my impression of monks and the flavor behind it.

[@proclarushtaonasat]

@@Flamme-Sanabi i guess it depends on the lore of the world, but IRL, monks are almost exclusively religious, or at least spiritual. their connection to martial arts stems mostly from movies and is basically just a stereotype. Of course in a fantasy setting, you can play with the concepts, but i prefer some connection to the real-life inspiration. Air-nomads in avatar, were inspired by monks, and unlike the other nations, they notably had no formal army or military (despite what the fire nation claims) and their way of fighting, is mostly to push back enemies, like the fights that happen on the fire nations ships, often involve aang blowing people overboard. Airbending doesnt have many damaging moves Compare that to ninjas in naruto: In the beginning, it was about stealth, infiltration and information gathering, which made sense, as ninjas were essentially spies, but later it became just dragonball with a ninja aesthetic, people just throwing nukes around all day, they still call themselves ninjas, but dont do many ninja-things anymore.

[@Flamme-Sanabi]

@@proclarushtaonasat that is pretty unfortunate to be honest, since I would like to be a viable punchy guy. But oh hey, homebrew exists for a reason. Pretty interesting what Avatar did with those. (Not sure how Naruto fits into this, since Ninjas are more about infiltration and assasination, which is more of a Rogue thing, I think.)

[@jonathanocchi7044]

Simple monk fix idea: Reactive Defense(level 1): Announced at the start of the Monks action, they receive defensive bonuses, set their stance to react to any and all incoming attacks with counterattacks of opportunity. Ki can be spent to allow for Crippling Strikes (broken bones, ruptured organs, etc) during these attacks. This allows Monks to take on multiple opponents with ease making them true frontline (albeit glass cannon) fighters.

[@Snags5050]

Also, as a new/aspiring DM wanting to use Foundry VTT, I saw your sponsor and my head exploded. I /will/ be supporting that patreon

[@TheSensei88]

Actually, the four elements monk sounds a lot like an avatar bending elements, do you really think it needs something more? I really like it as it is now! Just give it more "ki" points

[@bootifulbabeIsSooooSus]

I had a monk at our table that can kill everyone he is extremely strong.

[@dicksoncider5099]

Dang man everyone?

[@DnDShorts]

that's awesome, sounds like you have a great DM who accomodates them and works to give them a place to shine! Not all tables are so lucky. I played with a monk who also felt on par with others, but I've seen the math, and heard so many horror stories, that I have to begrudgingly set aside my personal experience and accept that, generally, monks are just weaker (even though I like them a lot and know they CAN work well!)

[@KyleC30845]

so everyone says this, but then goes on to say "we rolled for stats" or "the dm and I agreed to break the rules here", or the most common "I got broken magic items"

[@okayhellohihowyadoin]

My dad can beat up your monk

[@bootifulbabeIsSooooSus]

@@KyleC30845he used point buy and put everything into wisdom and dexterity noting else

[@ericburton3963]

The easiest way I’ve found to “fix” the monk is to give it a “meditation” action that acts as concentration until the start of its next turn (in that if they are hit they have to roll a con save against half the damage) and if used they can’t do anything else that turn. if they make it to their next turn while maintaining concentration they get to roll one of their damage dice and gain that number of qi points (though they cannot exceed their maximum). I find this greatly helps with their resource issue and since it makes them sit out a turn of combat and has a risk of failure I feel like it is relatively balanced.

[@richardstewart8240]

Easy fix got ki points- make the number of ki points equal to 3×PB. That gives you 6 right away at level 2. And it automatically scales, and it gives you more ki early on and less at high levels when you have more than you need

[@IncubustedVT]

My idea for monk would be simple, you spend a ki/discipline point for Flurry of blows each successful hit would give you one ki point, up to their maximum, it would keep their ki/discipline up and make sense thematically, Martial artists are about comboing landing hits and keep going if they miss they loose the ability to combo as efficiently but once they get the points back it works.

[@eduardopereiradossantosmel7403]

on my tables I homebrew that players monks have Proficiency bonus on their AC, and been using the d6-d12 progression. I also give twice ki points per level, but remove stunning strike, and give a non-attribute increasing feat in place of it. Just by removing Stunning Strike alone, the class becomes way easier to balance. Twice the ki points makes the monk as customizable as a fighter.

[@Greenweeper1387]

I have done one thing that has made playing a monk worthwhile in my games and that is give them an ability at 3rd level where they can spend a bonus action to regain a number of Ki points equal to their Wisdom Score divided by 4, up to their maximum, once every long rest. Another thing I did is literally the Heightened Metabolism ability but I replaced Stillness of Mind with it (but I still called it Stillness of Mind)

[@ThePeepuddle]

Something I would like to implement is increased crit range on unarmed strikes. In my mind Monks are experts in hand to hand combat and know where to strike a body to inflict the most pain so this would fit thematically. Also to give some more use to patient defence. Counter strike: While using patient defence if an enemy makes a melee attack against you and misses you, you can use your reaction to make one unarmed strike against your attacker. If you use your reaction in this way you can do this a number of times equal to your dexterity modifier but forgo any other way to use a reaction until the start of your next turn. To help with Ki points I would like: When you reduce an enemy to zero hitpoints you drain some of their Ki giving you one Ki point. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier per long rest. (Or short rest depending on balance) I'm not saying all these MUST BE IMPLEMENTED but some would be really cool imo

[@nickzhaosun]

I made 3 home-brew changes to my Monks. 1. Your hit die is now 1d10 2. Your unarmed strikes increase by 1 category. 3. You gain a ki point bonus equal to your wisdom modifier.

[@oliverlockhart4053]

You know the perfect time for "Perfect Discipline "? Level four. Just enough Ki points to get through a quick fight if you're in a Campaign with several low level skirmishes. Moot when you're higher level and have more than enough feature to compensate.