The New Zealand Flag Referendum Explained

[@CollinBuckman]

Off topic, but the Netherlands should totally change their flag back to orange, white, and blue. I mean, the Dutch really love the color orange, and it'd make the flag a lot more unique than the red, white, and blue of the current one.

[@starguy321]

Collin Buckman orange dye fades though, red is a stronger colour

[@copperhools3276]

even more so because it is the same as Luxembourg's flag

[@VetteGeleBanaan]

they say they won't use it anymore because the Nazi's did. Meh, I want it back. Ranje Blanje Blue!

[@michaelflood2622]

High Viz orange

[@penner_gluck]

@@copperhools3276 it's not. Luxembourg uses a lighter blue colour

[@christianholmes9993]

The laser eye beam kiwi wasn't up for the vote? You missed out New Zealand.

[@alexanderdaemon]

yes we did

[@kiwi4998]

Ironically it was the most popular but the government said we couldn't

[@mrsponkman]

i would charge into battle with that flag

[@euproductions8615]

No we did not tbh I hated the new ones so much and I like the old one

[@Gynra]

The Welsh flag is the best: it has a dragon. Dragons are cool.

[@peepiepo]

It's too fiddly a picture to be a good flag. It's more like an emblem

[@Gynra]

I can't, of course, agree. And the correct word is "device".

[@peepiepo]

+Brian Davies Correct word?

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

So does the Bhutanese one

[@Gynra]

Inkyminkyzizwoz I know - theirs is cool, too :)

[@draemcewen1933]

I think Australia should change their flag as we had our one first before they made their one

[@Soliloquy084]

You have a point, the design of NZ's flag is actually older, but Australia's flag received royal assertion first.

[@draemcewen1933]

Soliloquy nz had the flag first we adopted it in 1902 and they adopted their one in 1903

[@Soliloquy084]

Sorry, I was mistaken and stand corrected.

[@draemcewen1933]

Soliloquy it's alright everyone makes mistakes

[@Saskyc]

Couldn't be more irrelevant

[@maxl.b.m.y.g.5918]

The Dutch flag is like Luxembourg's

[@Soliloquy084]

Almost the same.

[@jaccorubens2211]

No. The Luxembourg flag is like the Dutch's.

[@ARTiculations]

I just feel like because of this, it's gonna be a long ass time before New Zealand ever changes their flag. Even if a good design gets proposed in the future, politicians and various other interest groups will just say "look at how much money we spent on a flag referendum last time that went nowhere." But in any case, great video and very well explained =) ...long live Red Peak.

[@Soliloquy084]

Yea I think it will be a while, and you're right the look how much money we spent argument will get pushed a lot, I think your right on that one. And thanks for your nice comment at the end there.

[@chris_wick]

The Canadian flag was chosen by committee. The selection process was pretty similar too, people submitted designs that were eventually shortlisted by a multipartisan team. A lot of the same problems were facing the committee in the Canada situation as well--the flag must represent the English and French equally, it should have a maple leaf, it should have Canada's colours, etc. The difference being that in our situation there was no referendum, the flag voted on by Parliament and the Red Ensign was lowered over the Parliament building for the last time in 1965. Seeing as the referendum failed and you disagreed with the method used to choose the finalists, what would you have done instead?

[@cornet6]

+rex turbocool Committees are often much better than the average citizen at choosing creative stuff such as flags, national anthems, etc. In Canada's case, I definitely think it was for the best as I don't think that the current flag would've been chosen had a referendum been held but the flag is now iconic and I think most Canadians wouldn't be in favor of changing it.

[@Soliloquy084]

There are always committees involved in these types of decisions, the phrase 'don't design something by committee' is more a warning not to forget about design principles. I think the issue was with the Flag Consideration Panel, they lacked the credibility necessary and were not given enough time between the announcement of the long list of 40 to when they choose their final designs. Both the silver fern on black and the original Kyle Lockwood designs have been seen as likely new flags but only one of those was put to an actual vote. That's where I think it all came undone, simply insufficient diversity in the first referendum. On paper this system is fine, but it wasn't managed as well as it needed to be at that stage. Also, some people I have spoken with were of the position that they would vote for change if their first choice in the first referendum had won. They had been told to pick a favourite and were now sticking to it. Having two designs int he first referendum that were just colour swaps resulting in a close to 50:50 split int he final round, validating that kind of thinking. If it had been up to me there would have been more flags in the first referendum but all of distinctly different designs.

[@spaghettiking7312]

Considering the Maple Leaf was put in only twenty years after World War 2, I'm pretty sure they decided not to have a referendum on Canada's flag because they knew they'd lose, especially with fear of ever more American expansion within and domination of Canada. I'm greatly appreciative that the New Zealand government actually let their citizens decide the symbol their children to come would represent themselves under. . .

[@infinitecanadian]

@@spaghettiking7312 The maple leaf was a symbol of Canada since before Confederation.

[@spaghettiking7312]

@@infinitecanadian I apologise for my wording, I was referring to the flag as a symbol. But indeed, you are right.

[@NameExplain]

Interested my video especially from a kiwi perspective on the whole situation. I'd love my country to have a flag referendum. A great idea poorly executed it seems.

[@Soliloquy084]

Seriously the Union Jack is an awesome flag, solid top three, you don't need to think about changing it.

[@NameExplain]

+Soliloquy The Union Jack is a rather fine flag. I personally prefer the pre 1801 design though. Do you enjoy having it within you flag? I can't imagine having another established flag within my flag.

[@MisterFro9]

@@NameExplain As an Australian, I can concur, it's embarrassing having it there :(

[@unsignedmusic]

I really liked the colorful Fern design. It wasn't this hard for Canada to design their flag.

[@ChristopherSobieniak]

They just didn't have lobbyist to spoil it.

[@hugebigpenis1]

Nah, it was just that canada was in more of a postion to change while new zealand hasn't got a big enough reason to change

[@ChristopherSobieniak]

george gibbs That's right.

[@ChristopherSobieniak]

george gibbs Why I appreciate Canada sometimes.

[@Slainte-Mhath]

the Canadian flag designed itself. Their flag changed by just removing the union flag and resetting the maple leaf. Doing the same with the NZ and Oz flags just doesn't work. They possibly need to go the way of the change in the American flag. It just replaced the union flag with the stars. What can the union flag be replaced with downunder.

[@namankumar9478]

Doesn't matter how flag is. It's a beautiful and great country.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Pretty much everyone I know wanted the Lazer Kiwi design, but I think that was more a reaction to the PM's willingness to sign away our bargaining power on pharmaceuticals and regulatory autonomy to join TPPA. Red Peaks was also nice. But the selection process was so obviously unfairly stacked towards any version on the Silver Fern design that it was rejected in the end, and rightly so.

[@stand_alone_complex5620]

agreed

[@MeriamMariaa]

Try to figure out what flag belongs to Luxembourg or the Netherlands.. even Dutch people get it wrong sometimes! Sad they spend so much money on the referendum..

[@MeriamMariaa]

I'm Dutch myself and my friends sometimes use the Luxembourg flag emoji instead of the Dutch one XD *awkward*

[@barvdw]

Well, there are only so many things you can do with a tricolour flag... Although the Grand-Duchy has a common history with the Netherlands, the flag has nothing to do with the Dutch flag. Until Luxemburg ships met with Dutch ships on the Rhine, it wasn't so important, but after that, neighbouring countries wanted more distinction, and since, the civil ensign has been a copy of the weapon of Luxemburg. There has been an attempt to change the civil ensign into the national flag, but that didn't succeed. BTW, there are more flags that are similar, like Monaco's and Indonesia's, or the Romanian and Tchadian flags, etc.

[@douwevenema3748]

We used to have a orange white light blue flag....

[@MeriamMariaa]

That's a very long time ago!

[@MaartenvanRossemLezingen]

The orange was often changed during the 17th century to red because the orange dye would change to yellow in the sun but the red dye would change to orange. There was a lot of confusion whether the flag of the Netherlands was Orange white blue or Red white blue until the official flag was 'designed' by queen Wilhelmina who claimed the first Dutch king William of Orange Nassau wore that pattern during the 80 years war. I don't know why I just told you this in English. Anyway orange is still our national color so who really cares.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

I would've gone for the red, white and blue fern as well if I'd been a Kiwi

[@SojournerDidimus]

Every time I see the red white blue fern flag I think about the NBA

[@mjag2834]

Kiwi - all black, green with white five point star?!

[@williamkrause5831]

Turns out all the hype around ranked voting systems ain't as good as y'all non americans thought.

[@euproductions8615]

I'm really happy it didn't change it would be hell

[@oh-totoro]

I think New Zealand made the correct decision in keeping their current flag, and that has nothing to do with my being British. I think the proposed alternative design was pretty poor, and if it had been chosen, it would have become the flag of New Zealand with little to no chance of it ever being changed for a better design. But by choosing the old/current design, it leaves it open to being changed in the near future when the right design comes along, especially as it has something objectionable in its design (the Union Flag). So yes, I think it was the correct decision, for now.

[@oswellsubscriptions2456]

I agree, I'm a New Zealander and though I was all for a new flag design. I wasn't happy with the designs choices and preferred no flag over the crappy five designs. Hopefully we get a new flag eventually and its alot better than the last ones

[@AholeAtheist]

I'm a kiwi, and I'm with you guys.. There were even better designs that existed.. Like the Kyle Lockwood design that ended up losing to the current one, except the black part on the top left was red, and the blue behind the stars was black, giving it a tri-colour colour scheme, as opposed to the Kyle Lockwood design that was pitted against the current flag which had 4, and red peak which also had 4. There's the Kotahitanga flag also which is the same red, white and black tri-colour as the alternative Lockwood design I described above..

[@mjag2834]

+AholeAtheist How about both NZ and Oz flags changed to all black with a white bar or white bars running across. NZ has a green five point star in the middle and the Oz flag an Orange Sun?! Or a white five point star with an all black background and a green stripe or stripes?!

[@chrischoy9]

If it isn't broken, don't fix it. That's all I have to say.

[@dansattah]

Good one. I'm not sure, if English has a word for the act of trying to fix something and ending up making it worse, but in German we have "verschlimmbessern" ("verschlimmern"=to make something worse; "verbessern"=to improve something).

[@AndrewVasirov]

to worsen?

[@AholeAtheist]

It's broken, though.. It has the union jack in it..

[@wmjm9931]

AholeAtheist and considering about 80% of New Zealanders descend from the UK why is it a problem to remember our mother country?

[@infinitecanadian]

@@dansattah In English, that would be 'worsening'.

[@frankySR21]

I personally prefer the current NZ flag. I'm not a New Zealander so my opinion does really matter, but I feel like the current flag is an apt representation of the roots of the country and is a connection to the shared history, language, and culture between NZ and the rest of the Commonwealth realms. Not to mention that the Union Jack is one of the most aesthetic flag designs out there to begin with. Another thing, simply changing a flag design won't make NZ stand out in any significant way. Uneducated people will still be ignorant of the country even existing.

[@frankySR21]

*doesn't

[@brittanywatts6887]

+frankySR21 exactly the whole thing wasnt because they thought it was similar to Australias it was all about getting rid of the union jack. if it was to do with it being similar they would of just replaced the stars

[@Soliloquy084]

+brittany watts It was both because of the similarities to Australia's flag and because of having another nation's flag in the corner. I know people who voted for change because of both of those reasons.

[@brittanywatts6887]

Soliloquy well that was a bit silly considering the amount of english migrants in nz

[@AholeAtheist]

That's retarded. It has no obligation to represent history, only the people of the nation.

[@heterodoxagnostic8070]

4:17 this one is so good, very pleasing to look at because of it's polish and creativity.

[@BrainStormGaming]

Uh... the Netherlands and Luxembourg's flags are REALLY similar.

[@fedejr712]

Here in Argentina is very common to see the Paraguay flag without the seal... and that is exactly the same as the Netherlands.... actually if you show the Netherlands flag to someone from here, is quite possible that they will tell you that's the flag of Paraguay...

[@mr.anderson2241]

4:16 that's actually a pretty badass design, it still retains the Union Jack while having Maori influence.

[@williamcfox]

The mechanics of the voting are interesting. Even flag elections are endlessly appealing to me. Nicely explained. I'm especially appreciative of your graphics because I know how long it can take to make it look professional. You should be proud. One little thing: it appears your video rendering clipped off some from the top. Maybe it's only on my PC, but here's a heads up for next time. You don't want to hide all that hard work in the top 10% of the screen! Also, was that my face!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[@Soliloquy084]

When I watched it on KZbin before making it public it looked fine to me so maybe there was an error on one of the servers but it could just be you. And yes it is your face because you don't have a logo.

[@williamcfox]

Must just be on my PC. no worries. I appreciate the mention, btw.

[@Soliloquy084]

You're welcome, I like to 'hide' little youtube references in the videos sometimes and your channel fitted the joke nicely.I actually decided to do it when I saw Step Backs Voodoo doll btw.

[@nathan3748]

No all countries with the good old Union Jack on should keep their flag and remember the history they had with the UK (Canada&S.Africa🤬)

[@willmcreavy9623]

I kinda like the black and white union Jack design. Keeps history but quite original. You probably already know but hawaii has a union Jack just because its great

[@Jenkowelten]

Nah

[@heyo49]

The red white and blue fern flag looks like a profession sports league symbol from here in the US. NBA, MLB etc.

[@gizdonk]

Hey Odell the black and white fern is a sports team here

[@Outrankd]

Is it a good thing the New Zealand flag didn't change? At Outrankd we think the flag does need to change to a flag that represents NZ better but none of the options represented NZ better than the current flag. Do you agree ? What would you of preferred? Come have your say at Outrankd

[@mjag2834]

all black background, with a green stripe or stripes, and a white five pointed star in the middle. Similar for Oz, but a white stripe or stripes and an orange Sun in the centre.

[@deathzone5893]

heart broken when I heard the flag will not change. silver fern represents everything about new Zealand union Jack represents nothing about new Zealand. Would you rather have something on the flag to represent the British or something to represent New Zealand on the flag. The people that were in world war 1 and 2 have silver ferns on their graves. If we did change our flag don't worry about the people that were in our war they won't be left out or forgotten. New Zealand is not about the Australians or the British.

[@TheProfProfessor]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I came from the future where a massive war broke out over who controls New Zealand and I have to tell you, China won

[@janitoalevic]

I really wanted to see a New Flag, but ok, the current one won, and where is 33% that didn't voted? why they didn't voted?

[@janitoalevic]

Martina New Zealand But A lot of countries of the World Speak english, and doesn't have the UK flag, is not just because you speak english you will put the origin country in the flag, well the NZ flag is from the colonial period.

[@janitoalevic]

Martina New Zealand The blue star includes is based in a mapuche flag, but the meaning changed, Chile doesn't have the Spanish Empire Flag, or the Spanish Flag in the corner, because, we have spanish heritage as the most of latin america, but we want to have our own identity, and also the way to be independent was a war. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Lautaro_flag.svg/307px-Lautaro_flag.svg.png commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bandera_Mapuche_W%C3%BC%C3%B1ellfe.jpg

[@janitoalevic]

Martina New Zealand And also, i mean, Chile doesn't have the flag that was used in the colony period (Spanish Empire Flag) it's a Flag of the independent Nation, just saying that, don't be rude...

[@chronicallymeee]

I'm Canadian and we had a big thing when we were changing our flag design, and I actually have one of the designs they didn't choose as a flag from my great mum, a trip leaf maple branch on white with blue bars on either side.

[@ryanb2503]

This channel is honestly a gem. I really enjoy your videos, keep it up :)

[@Soliloquy084]

Thanks

[@jasonschneijder2012]

I think they should've made a website where people could submit their flag designs with a system that says: color I want: blue/black/yellow etc. Symbol I want: fern/cross/nkiwi/etc. So people can pick and choose flags, and the best flags will be checked for copyright infringement/rascism/sexism/etc. until there are 20 flags left, then you add the old flag and put these 21 flags on the ballot. I think I should've organised this election...

[@Soliloquy084]

Their website did actually have the ability to filter the 10000 submissions by theme (fern,black etc) and by keyword. They just needed to make use of that and add in some (non-binding, but guiding) online voting to help them make their choices.

[@gamefrights]

Investing in this channel (not literally). Won't be surprised if it hits 100,000 in a couple months! Really quality videos, looked at sub-box, expected 100,000-500,000, and it left me in shock.

[@Soliloquy084]

Thanks, it would be very exciting if I were to grow to that kind of size, but I also have a great set of subscribers as it is so I'm not complaining.

[@felaorafidiya365]

chad and romania flag is literally the same

[@wompiedompie6084]

naah... the blue is lighter on romania's flag

[@nikhiliyengar1510]

No, you're thinking of Indonesia and Monaco.

[@euproductions8615]

The flag of chad has a darker yellow

[@davidderuiter726]

The French and Russian flag were created after the Dutch

[@AholeAtheist]

The other thing to note, is that the original Dutch flag was orange, white and blue, not red, white and blue.

[@garrofwar148]

HA! At least you had a referendum for your flag design. In Canada if we left it to a referendum we would still have our Red Ensign.

[@SamuelWallsJames]

I definitely don't think we should change our flag, I get why people want to change it but for me there's so much history behind that flag and changing would, in a way, forget all those who flew that flag whether it's in front of parliament, at sporting events or on the battlefield.

[@SplitFinn]

Should have changed it to Lockwood's design. It's always bugged me that the Australian and New Zealand flags have the Union Jack plastered in the top left corner. South Africa, India and Canada are all Commonwealth nations but they do not have the same. It gets even more complicated when you consider New Zealand's at-times strained history with Britain (Waitangi, Land Wars, EEC Entry).

[@deathman11jackd]

I think that the Union Jack should be in all the Commonwealth flags. We've all given so much to Britain, especially you Anzac guys. Thank you for everything you've done for us. - A humbled Brit

[@redfox4883]

Hi, sorry to be a stickler for details, but the Dutch and Luxembourg flags are extremely close. The only difference is that the blue stripe on the bottom is slightly lighter than the one on the Dutch flag. Also, very well done video! I thoroughly enjoyed it!

[@drew5634]

I’m from Russia and I have an idea💡sorry, my English is very bad. I think the Canadian flag should be taken as a basis. In the center is a white band with black fern. Black band around the edges. Thanks.

[@theAEDan]

I'm hoping that New Zealand keeps its current flag, though i do understand why some would prefer a new one. I'm hoping that after Brexit, the UK will reconnect with the former dominions, we were once one people after all. Maybe we could be again, under some form of federal structure

[@sloth-gaming]

The Dutch flag is very like Luxembourg Flag

[@AndrewVasirov]

Quite the opposite I believe.

[@Lenny-ue8hk]

There was some controversy with Red Peak as somebody realised there's already a company that uses the exact same design (I think the blue and black are swapped)

[@kpacuBua]

A silver fern right under the Union Jack on New Zealand's current flag would be best.

[@AholeAtheist]

Ugh!.. No.

[@baileygilbert4766]

Ahole Why not?, just wondering 💭.

[@Lvlaple4Ever]

Should've accepted the laserbeam kiwi.

[@martychisnall]

The silver fern on the black flag is also used by fascist movements so....

[@kamanashiskar9203]

No Western nation WOULD dare put a Swastika on their flag...

[@MervynPartin]

I thought that the red, white and blue flag (with the fern and Southern Cross) was attractive and far better than anything with a Union Flag in the corner, but I didn't realise that the final choice offered was the similar one with black. I discussed the matter with my Kiwi cousin and was very surprised that he was against a new flag at all.

[@MrInstantRamen]

I really liked the Koru flag next to the copyrighted koru and the one with the Union Jack made out of korus

[@timeforwar4841]

Nothing to do with me - Your Country, Your Referendum, Your Beautiful People and Country. BUT, God Bless the UK, God Bless New Zealand and GOD BLESS 'OUR' QUEEN. .......................GOOD DECISION xxxx

[@chadcj2077]

0:11 The Flag I'd netherlands (dutch flag) looks exactly like the flag of Luxembourg

[@nikhiliyengar1510]

Not unless you're really bad at distinguishing light and dark blue.

[@joy_gantic]

Ummm The Netherlandish flag actually DOES have a doppelgänger, The Luxembourgish.

[@Soliloquy084]

Or even the French flag, that was the joke.

[@joy_gantic]

Soliloquy but the Lux. flag is the exact same (the only difference is the shade of the blue) and at least the Russian, French and others are still easy to recognise and tell apart.

[@joy_gantic]

Nobbbelzxxtv it was better when the Dutch used Orange, White, and Blue. I'm not sure why they changed.

[@TSBoncompte]

really? the kiwis decided to keep the flag? ah, maaaaaan, NZ Y U NO CHANGE FLAG

[@zythraxxyt]

I agree that the options weren't particularly amazing but everyone was needlessly complaining about it and didn't want to change it just because of our prime minister John Key who a lot of people don't seem to like when there really isn't a good alternative to John Key because they are all idiots.

[@Joeey975]

+El Torco why Spain still have king?

[@TSBoncompte]

joeey975 one word? franco

[@harryunderhill5041]

+El Torco The vid sums things up why it wasn't changed. But basically because some people hated the process (the first referendum should have been: do you want to change the flag? That would have been a bit more logical), some people hated the $26 million price tag for a change that poll after poll after poll said the majority didn't want a change, some people hated the final design (which actually came technically second in the voting system), some people hated the hating on the existing New Zealand Flag and New Zealand's war time and colonial history (seriously hating on it in a way that reeked of self hatred) and some Maori actually didn't want to change the current flag because it has mana and represents whānau. The worst bit of this process is John Key saying that although that's $26 million spent on nothing it's stimulated debate and got New Zealand chatting. Spin at it's finest.

[@Joeey975]

El Torco spain need to get rid of king

[@baksatibi]

It could have been simpler and cheaper to include the original flag on the same ballot with the proposed alternatives. The question is, would the result have been different? Edit: here's why does it matter. I presume a significant number of people don't want the flag to change at all. For them the first round is meaningless, so you'd expect them to either don't show up or vote randomly. However they can vote tactically by ordering the designs from worst to best. This way they can help for a worse design to win, therefore more people who want the flag to change but don't like the winner design will vote against it.

[@geoffreylee5199]

The Canadian flag debate of 1963 to 1965 was a pant load of fun. Not black and white, but that fern is a really strong design element.

[@TheStickCollector]

Let me know when they do this again

[@flaviospadavecchia5126]

They should have voted to change it. I mean, I'd be pissed if my country's flag had some other country's flag in it...

[@epicbob7404]

The Australians took our current flag and changed it a little Explains why they can't keep a prime minister for more than 4 years

[@AlphapodPizza]

it's about the history and integration into the common wealth. Also the Union Jack is probably one of my favourite of the flag designs. The American red and white stripes never appealed to me in any country containing it. Tri colour flags are boring. The Scandinavian flags are good but meh. The Saudi flag is writing on green. it looks interesting but not as interesting. There are lots of flags I could go through. The Brazilian flag is interesting but not as eye catching. Too much in a dense area. The union Jack is visually appealing with the use of the 3 colours it contains and the layout of it. They voted to keep the flag so it's gonna be a while till they can vote again. The Canadian flag is nice actually. If you check out the state flag of Hawaii it's quite unique but the stripes while being better than the USA are kinda trippy

[@slightlyvisible8448]

The difference is that country is their mother.

[@CharlotteNCJack]

Not if 85% if the people living in your country were direct descendants or immigrants of the other country smh go away

[@Jariid]

To deny our heritage is to leave us european descended stranded. NZ will always be a colonial acquired home to european/british and a traditional home to maori. The union jack is our parentage, and the cross is the regional inheritance. Eventually we'll end up putting the US flag in our top hoist corner I suppose. :D

[@dmscoon]

i like how quick you pumped this one out without it being shit haha

[@Soliloquy084]

All about preparation, there are some segments that would have been changed if the result had gone the other way, but I had recorded the audio for both and had the video in a position to be finished off once the result was known.

[@dmscoon]

Soliloquy i actually realised that about 10 seconds after i clicked post haha

[@anthonygilbert311]

That was a very interesting video. I watched a few videos on KZbin about the changing of the New Zealand national flag, and I am really happy to see how sensible the process was with the voters. I do agree there were a lot of issues, but people are not flipping out as they would in the United States.

[@CoolioXXX52]

How would we flip out in united states?

[@Killuminati23]

Change the red of the last red-black + silver fern flag into a dark orange and it would be really nice.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

One solution could've been to have a single referendum with both the current flag and all the alternatives on the ballot paper, then there would be a fair chance since it is possible that the result of the second referendum might have been different if one of the other designs had won the first one

[@Soliloquy084]

+Inkyminkyzizwoz I guess it would have been cheaper. The head to head approach did allow for a more focused debate though.

[@bluemonkey1013]

Good to see a fellow kiwi around this part of the web

[@thomas8663]

Great video!!

[@Soliloquy084]

Thanks

[@fergusporteous-gregory2557]

+Soliloquy the alternate should of been this www.govt.nz/assets/flags-designs/BLACK-JACK-FLAG-Mike-Davison.jpg

[@miamiwendigo]

Im from amreica but i think you guys should do should keep the union jack with what ever new flag you have

[@CasualHistorian]

I expected that New Zealand would keep its flag, at least when it was a choice between the two final options. I guess that just means we don't need to replace the New Zealand flag we have flying in our back yard.

[@Soliloquy084]

Why do you have the New Zealand flag in your back yard?

[@CasualHistorian]

+Soliloquy My father's family is from New Zealand. He was raised in the U.S. but was born in New Zealand, and his parents were born and raised there. They moved to the U.S. in the 50s.

[@Soliloquy084]

+Grant Hurst Awsome.

[@WaterYoshi]

Well I like the New Zealand flag.

[@samuell4528]

New Zealand adopted their flag in 1902, and first used it in 1869. Australia adopted theirs in 1903 and started using it in 1901.

[@JamesMartin-jr8vv]

Really the Union Jack should be removed in order to have a design that's more unique to New Zealand. After all, that was the main reason Canada changed their flag, even though it can get confused for another flag as well (drop the maple leaf and you have the flag of Peru.) For the Québecois and the first nations, the Union Jack didn't represent them, rather served as a reminder that someone else took control. I imagine the same holds true for the Māori down in New Zealand.

[@spaghettiking7312]

The ensign flag had the Fleur Dr Lis of Royalist France and a three-rooted maple leaf most people now agree to represent the native peoples of Canada. Considering how much the Québecers fly their provincial flag, I don't think they feel the Maple Leaf properly represents them generally.

[@troy2286]

I actually created a design for NZ that includes a kiwi similar to the roundel lf the Airforce. I was wondering why the kiwi bird wasnt eveb included in the designs because it is a national symbol

[@MervynPartin]

I actually liked the red white blue flag with the fern and Southern Cross. To me, it actually said "New Zealand". The old flag just says "British Colony either Australia or New Zealand" so I was rather surprised by the rejection, but the New Zealanders made their choice so there we have it.

[@AlejandroRodolfoMendez]

to be fair the 2 winning proposals flags look a lot like the flag of the argentinean province of "tierra del fuego".

[@Anolaana]

The Red and Black design you liked at the end was nice. I liked Red Peak, but I guess you kinda pointed out it has no direct symbolism (no Cross nor Fern) to make it appealing.

[@Soliloquy084]

It's the same design just with better colours also red, black and white are also the colours that are associated with Māori art so it adds a nice touch in that respect too. I don't think the Red Peak was a bad flag, it just was a bit comical how it ended up on the ballot.

[@Anolaana]

Soliloquy Yeah I like the current Red-Black Maori flag. It's striking and beautifully simple. And yeah, the ballad of the ballet debacle, and the geometric letters, didn't help Red Peak either. The designer just didn't have good press spin to push it through.

[@Soliloquy084]

Yea, the Tino Rangatiratanga flag is a really nice design, I wouldn't have minded some aspects of its design put forward, but it does have official recognition as a Māori flag so isn't really appropriate as the national flag, but still awesome to have official recognition for it.

[@poorpatrician9488]

Red peak was the best, red white and blue fern was the 2nd best IMO

[@Soliloquy084]

The red peak just doesn't mean anything to me.

[@Youtopiawebseries]

So, I've heard about New Zealand's new flag on the Hello Internet podcast and could not understand what was so fascinating about it. Now I... sort of do. Btw, the one at 4:18 is my favourite.

[@Soliloquy084]

+Youtopia Yea that half fern is one of my favourites too; but it didn't even make the long list of 40!!!

[@Planarwalk]

I was against the flag change for multiple reasons, the main being that there are better things to spend $25 million on

[@bonlouis8808]

I'm glad you guys kept the flag. Both countries have a shared history and fought wars under that flag. It would've been a shame to throw it way.

[@seanwestbrook2071]

To be fair, Canada fought under their commonwealth flag for many years, and they changed it to what it is today. Francesco the same thing with their flag after the revolution. In my opinion, the flag of New Zealand is far too similar to Australia's, and it isn't very appealing either. I like the Fern design as it better represents the nation and what the nation is known for than just some red stars on a blue background.

[@bonlouis8808]

+Sean Westbrook Canada's old flag was beautiful. The maple leaf is a bit too simplistic. The differences between Aus and NZ flag whilst are minimal are poignant because they show the close links between our countries and also it's our duty to inform other global citizens of these differences and educate them. You have to also recognise that NZ and Aus are traditionally more conservative in retaining the status quo and links to the Commonwealth as we didn't have the French overtures infecting our cultures the same way Canada did

[@seanwestbrook2071]

Romlach Zav I understand wanting to keep that connection, but as he stated in the video, most New Zealanders don't want to keep their current flag. They want to be considered something different than "Other Australia" or "British commonwealth" many of them want their own identity as New Zealand and be known for just that. That's why New Zealand seceded from Briatin in the first place. Same with the United States, India, South Africa etc. They considered themselves different. New Zealand is very different already, yes, but they want a flag (which is the first symbol people think of when they think of a country) to represent them alone and not Britain or Australia.

[@bonlouis8808]

Sean Westbrook NZ had the referendum to change the flag and overwhelmingly decided to keep it. The poll was held on March 2016 and Kiwis decided to keep it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_flag_referendums,_2015%E2%80%9316#Second_referendum I think you need to read history a bit more. New Zealand nor Australia did not cede from Britain it was given autonomy under a Constitutional Monarchy whereby our links are still evident to the Crown. NZ also reintroduced knights/dames to their Order of NZ honours' list. Both NZ and Australia are proud of our links to Britain and the Commonwealth, as evidenced through our sport, language, parliamentary and judicial systems.

[@Soliloquy084]

I wouldn't say that New Zealand voted overwhelmingly to retain its current flag, it was 56.73% in favour.

[@KlaxontheImpailr]

Yeah they need to at least tweak the flag to make it more unique, that's why I liked the silver fern/southern cross ones, a little bit of new and old.

[@tchevrier]

I personally think its time for both Australia and New Zealand to get rid of the union jack and have their own identity. Much like Canada did.

[@tchevrier]

@Alfred Weber and yet the vast vast majority of Canadians do not regret that decision.

[@keeganfitzgerald3186]

I really wanted wanted the flag to change, and although it might not have been the best silver fern flag I still think its better than the one we have. But do you think we could have another flag referendum in the future?

[@Soliloquy084]

We will certainly have another flag debate in the future, and almost certainly have another referendum to go along with it. Most agree that the flag not changing means that such a debate and referendum will happen sooner than if the new flag had been adopted. Exactly when will depend on a few things, perhaps the debate about becoming a republic gains momentum and flag change could be part of that, alternatively if the discussion on this flag referendum centers around the mishandling of the process as opposed to the result itself we might see it happen sooner. There is also the possibility that a citizens initiated referendum is triggered, these are not binding but could push the issue back into the political sphere.

[@Pandorica10]

Hey Soliloquy, I just wanted to correct you on a mistake i've noticed you make a lot. The Flag of the UK is called the Union Flag, but if it's out as sea (ie flying on a boat), then, and only then, is it called the Union Jack.

[@Soliloquy084]

That's not actually true, it's correct to call it the Union Jack the UK Flag Institute has even weighed in on the issue www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/the-union-jack-or-the-union-flag/

[@Pandorica10]

I stand very much corrected then. I've only ever heard it referred to as the Union Jack at sea, so it's easy to see where the confusion comes from :)

[@sicgc7658]

You could have used the Luxembourgish flag, because it only has a light shade of blue on the bottom for the Dutch flag.

[@deccno]

I liked the red black silver fern with red stars from the lont list at the end. I just wondered how red fits to new zealand?

[@PresentationPress]

Welp. Looks like next time there needs to be a design team, A LOT more time in committee, no referendum, and a vote in parliament with robust debate should suffice. Ever since the addition of the red peak, this process was a joke. Too rushed... not enough thought.

[@pablononescobar]

The first New Zealand flag was a Blue Ensign with the letters "NZ" in red--tacky maybe, but no confusing w/ Australia

[@unwiseowl2209]

Man after my own heart, your preferred choices (Red/Black Lockwood and Silver Fern on Black) were mine too, although I was also strangely partial to the 'Black Jack', something about Red White and Black screams NZ to me.

[@Soliloquy084]

+Thom Diment (UnwiseOwl) Red white and black are the colours used in Māori art so I think they add a representing the native population element that I think the fern alone lacks. The black Jack flag is an interesting one - it's a joke but at the same time it's actually a great redesign job - it doesn't appeal to me as a flag but it is a good design anyway.

[@revolucion41]

i'm proud that the kiwis kept the current design. i'm english, not kiwi. but i'm not going to hide it i'm proud of the links that our countries share, and i hope that is the reason that most kiwis voted to keep their current flag with the union jack. having a common head of state and a shared history is a beautiful thing and makes me fiercely proud to be a part of the commonwealth of nations. we in England don't forget your contribution to both world wars, but also remember that most of you are descended from us. without us, there wouldn't have been New Zealand as it is now! So i hope that keeping the union jack has at least some historical significance. we love you kiwis, love from england xxxxxx

[@christopherchristianity2379]

I like the Union Jack

[@fmueller1]

It's worth repeating that in ChCh 10 folks showed up for the first meeting about changing the flag. For most Kiwis, this is a non-issue, and certainly nobody wants to spend money on it. In my opinion, this whole affair would have never gotten off the ground if, John Key hadn't been in desperate need to distract the media and general public from the TPP!

[@bjro7478]

I thought NZ's stars were yellow. Or is it just an alternative version?

[@maxstirnersego]

Anyone else remember Last Week Night's submission?

[@Daniel-hx1yu]

I still can't tell if it's Luxembourg or Netherlands

[@Reikianolla]

I'm a bit late but if I were to organize a flag-change vote, I'd pick the contestants like this: Give the public a head start to start designing flags, then allow an official petition process, and all petitions with a large enough % of the population get put on the ballot, maybe 5%.

[@Mantzy_AUS]

Fellow kiwi (but in Aus so couldn't vote) and Id have gone with the the black with red corner flag at the end personally. The black corner never sat right with me somehow. Edit: could we get the video you made just in case the flag WAS changed?

[@Soliloquy084]

I'm in the Netherlands and I voted! Why did being in Aus stop you?

[@Mantzy_AUS]

I've not registered to vote in NZ tbh - am a kiwi but not been not lived there as an over 18 year old so not even sure how i go about it. Didn't know overseas people could vote (also a Brit and I know you can't vote there if overseas - assumed it was the same) I guess as I had no input to the voting process then I really have no right to complain about the result.

[@MrGe53]

My Kiwi friend said if it was a silver fern with a union jack on the top left it would of won easily, vast majority wanted to keep the Union ties but were happy with a redesign. the fact non of the alternative flags had a union jacks was the reason it lost

[@Soliloquy084]

I would not have voted for a new flag that contained the Union Jack, New Zealand is a separate nation to the United Kingdom and without removing the Union Jack I don't see the reason to change. Perhaps your friend and I travel in different circles but from the people I have spoken to tend to dislike the Union Jack if they are wanting change, I really doubt a Union Jack design would replace the current flag.

[@MrGe53]

Perhaps, he has strong colonial routes with the UK and travels around once a year. But if you were 100% correct with people disliking the union jack the fern would of won over. Nice video, cleared up the backstory of the whole referendum, very interesting stuff.

[@Soliloquy084]

I think it's more complicated than people disliking the Union Jack and liking the fern. The system requires a majority to vote for a new flag, but at the moment, you have several competing ideas that result in people falling back on the status quo, like I did. The polls suggest that more people broadly want to change the flag, however, that is not one united group, the big obvious divide there is those that want the silver fern and those that think the fern looks too much like a white feather! I personally support the fern as a symbol but didn't vote for change because I don't like the design that was on offer, I support removing the Union Jack, but voted for the current Union Jack containing flag for the same reason.

[@mal4133]

Why did you not show the actual vote on the Flag, the old one won but those who voted for the New one and their percentage is no small number

[@Soliloquy084]

The reason is simple, at the time of release the final results were not available.

[@TheProfProfessor]

I can relate as an Australian as the flag design we both share sucks, but the options given for a potential flag change are terrible. I mean, why are we trying to claim a constellation? Why isn't the Commonwealth Star the focus? I need someone to tell me why

[@AMS97PS3]

+TheProfProfessor The southern cross appears on a fair few flags in the southern hemisphere. I don't think it needs to be on the flag or any flag. As the creator of this video said, they needed to get the opinion of vexiologists. One trip to /r/Vexiology would provide loads of awesome flag designs for NZ.

[@dalriada842]

Flags work best, IMHO, when they are composed of simple geometric shapes. Those ferns look like a bugger for little children to draw. It should be possible to replicate a flag accurately by following a simple set of rules. Even the current flag doesn't really cut the mustard.

[@dauw_]

Even though the new flag is not the best I think it is still better than the flag we have now.

[@astro_che]

are you from nz? one kiwi to another (i hope)

[@Soliloquy084]

yes, I'm from NZ.

[@TVFILMBUFF]

As an Aussie, I really like the fact that the Kiwi and Aussie flags are so similar.

[@Soliloquy084]

What do you like about it?

[@TVFILMBUFF]

Soliloquy Dispite the sibling rivalry, our countries are as close as any can be (I hate the direction our government is currently taking with NZ permanent residents, but thats another topic) I love seeing both flags waved together as it feels they were meant to be. I see them almost everyday flying over the ANZAC bridge in Sydney. I love being in another country and seeing a Kiwi flag and knowing there are brothers and sisters nearby. The Nordic cross binds the Scandiwegians. The Gran Colombia tricolour linking Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador. The Pan-Arab colours. etc etc...

[@dementos7806]

TVFILMBUFF Scandinavian*

[@TVFILMBUFF]

Dementos It wasn't a typo ;)

[@daddyleon]

+TVFILMBUFF Whie I like that thought.. they still look way too similar. If they'd remove the Union Jack in the canton, and make a slight colour swap, that be a great idea. I just a thought, but I do like this: imgur.com/gallery/kSk6cLi/new

[@Saskyc]

Great Video, well done. I disagree that the fern would have made a good flag. unfortunately it's just to complex to adhere to the principals of good flag design. But this was an awesome summary of the events of the referendum

[@sicgc7658]

If the flag at 4:19 had a blue background, and the stars were red with the white outline, then that would have been pretty decent.

[@daelimborger6401]

The Dutch flag doesn't resemble any other flag? hahahah what about the luxemburgian flag?!

[@AholeAtheist]

He was clearly being sarcastic, as he also showed the Russian and French flags which are comprised of the same colours, just different configurations.

[@LeMortJoyeux]

We had the flag first. since the 1500s

[@biponacci]

That black and blue one's colours clashed so badly.