The NHL has a MVP problem

[@CunuckHockey]

If anyone's unfamiliar with the stats used and their definitions, almost all of them are from Natural Stat Trick which has a pretty good glossary: www.naturalstattrick.com/glossary.php?players. Hope this helps!

[@dannycarlow8204]

When Hughes is on the ice, the Canucks are still terrible. Not sure if you noticed but the Canucks are not in a playoff spot. How can you think Hughes is better than Hellebuyck this year. Without Hellebuyck, the Jets are below the Canucks. Hughes doesn't even kill penalties. Makar actually kills penalties like a good defenseman should. Hughes isn't even good defensively. He's just an offensive player.

[@B-a-s-i]

He’s having a Bobby Orr type season impact wise and no one cares. We would be bottom 5 in the league competing for a lottery pick without him. He should be getting way more hype for what he’s done this season, but so many writers/voters/media are so clueless it’s a shame. Quinn is a top 3 player in the league right now and arguably the best.

[@CunuckHockey]

Yep, I 100% agree - I'm hoping this video brings more attention to Hughes' season. Btw do you play EASHL by any chance lmao, your name is familiar

[@B-a-s-i]

@@CunuckHockey Yeah my gt is IIBasi. I don’t play as much as I used to tho. Whats ur gamertag

[@CunuckHockey]

Yeah we definitely used to play against you in the past lmao my PSN is xCunuck7. We play on Capital Connection now, but used to play on a bunch of different clubs back in the day.

[@B-a-s-i]

@@CunuckHockey Yeah I remember you haha we’ve played against each other a few times. Small world

[@nathanadrian7797]

Really? You would select Hughes over McDavid, Draisaitl and Matthews?

[@FalloutUrMum]

Zach Werensky's stats are insane considering he's on Columbus

[@CunuckHockey]

I pick him every year in fantasy because he's always so underrated. He's a big reason why I'm first in that league 😂 Him and Marchenko both.

[@FalloutUrMum]

​@@CunuckHockey I'm stealing this

[@BeroOgden]

@@CunuckHockey I somehow only just noticed that this year part way through the season. Added them both, Werensky and Marchenko and i climbed from 3 place to current 1st in my league.

[@FalloutUrMum]

Hughes is definitely one of the reasons I think team USA wins the 4 nations. His ability to move the puck and his footwork are incredibly good. He has the footwork and puck handling of a 1st line forward, while also being incredibly good defensively. If he were a forward he'd be in MVP contention. Imagine if they put Hughes out with Mathews, the Tkachuks, and Slavin (Slavins probably not top pair in 4 nations like Hughes will be, they'll emphasize scoring defensemen for sure, but Slavin with Hughes would make it impossible to hold the O zone)

[@milanek1527]

We'll see. Many could argue the same by saying Makar matches Hughes and you have Crosby, Mackinnon, McDavid ready to tear the play. I think the four nations really goes anyway and a puck bounce decides it. When its a singular game elimination, you can have an off night and you're done. Same for goalies, some get hot, some crumble under pressure. Helleybuck against colorado in the playoffs is an example of that. Plays season well, and is a different person in the playoffs. Heck I could see sweden or finland taking it too. Too many good players to just ignore a team.

[@progshark]

Of the things NHL should be embarrassed by, this isnt even top-10.

[@FalloutUrMum]

Honestly, defensive defensemen often get snubbed by all awards. There are defensemen putting up close to 30 minutes of icetime for their teams, shutting down everyone on that MVP list, but they don't get noticed. Like if you're a defenseman that's out on the ice for more than 20 minutes a game, and your plus/minus stat is above 20 points. You should be recognized as one of the most important players on the team, even without significant goals and assists

[@CunuckHockey]

I 100% agree. It really is a shame that there's no way to formally recognize the guys who are elite in their own end. We have awards for the most valuable forward (Hart), the highest scoring forward (Art Ross), the best defensive forward (Selke), but all the defensemen just compete for a single Norris trophy? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

[@FalloutUrMum]

​@@CunuckHockey yeah, and I'm a Hurricanes fan. Probably our most important player is Jacob Slavin. He gets the Lady Byng trophy a lot, while also shutting down McDavid, MacKinnen, Kucherov, etc. Which is very hard to do without taking penalties. Dude doesn't get those points, but the Hurricanes are known for being defensively great primarily because of Slavin

[@CunuckHockey]

Yep, he's the exact guy I was thinking of as well. He might never break 40 points in a season again, but I guarantee the Hurricanes would miss him a lot more than any other scoring winger on the team.

[@Indium111]

Completely agree. I would love to have someone like Chris Tanev recognized for their dedication to pure defense.

[@dannycarlow8204]

​@@CunuckHockeyThe Selke is the only award specifically for forwards. The Norris is the only award specifically for defensemen.

[@CurriedBat]

Vancouver hasn't been relevant yet, this season. If that changes, perhaps Hughes will be on the list.

[@CunuckHockey]

Fair point. Team success does seem to play a big part in the Hart award which I didn't explicitly cover in the video

[@foskco87]

I love the Canucks but I can't help but feel bad for Hughes that he isn't on a better team... Imagine if he was on a team like Colorado, Vegas, Florida etc. He would be putting up legendary numbers. There would be no debate over who the best defenseman in the NHL was.

[@Mulukkis]

I think it's hard for both d-men and goalies to win, because they have Norris and Vezina. If there was a separate "best forward" award we would see more d-men win the hart.

[@nathanadrian7797]

Maybe they need to start a Gordie Howe trophy for the best forward. Forwards are valued more than D-men, so it is unlikely that a separate trophy for forwards would make much of an impact on voting for the Hart.

[@nilswedman9818]

I think there is other problems with the hart aswell. Last year kucherov was clearly the mvp to his team but they dont really seem to carr about the "most valuable" part, just who the best player is

[@alekthevampire]

I agree with the sentiment here. Hopefully advanced analytics will help award voters have a more comprehensive understanding of value and better identify how and why certain players are valuable to their teams, eventually leading to more shine put on defenseman. But as long as hockey games are decided by goals, rather than expected goals, traditional counting stats will always have preeminence when it comes to awards. Signings? Contracts? Deployment? That's another story.

[@CunuckHockey]

You're right. Goals do, and always will, decide hockey games. But there's two sides to that - scoring goals AND keeping goals out of your own net. I think historically we've been way too biased towards the scoring goals side of things. But like you said, hopefully with more and more metrics being collected league wide to help determine defensive value, we can slowly chip away at that bias.

[@alexvukovic7814]

you're totally right. it unreal that only two defensemen win it

[@Dylligraphy]

I think some reasons for that are the existence of the Norris trophy for best defensemen where there isn't one for best forward. There's the Art Ross, Richard and Selke but none of those are necessarily for the best forward period, and it's also possible for dmen to win the Art Ross and Richard trophies, and Orr did win the Art Ross twice. Also if you're a prodigiously talented hockey skater you're probably going to want to be a forward as forwards dominate highlight reels, are the most paid and the most glorified. Then there was the era where Gretzky Lemieux and Jagr were so dominant that they won all the Hart trophies for around 2 decades and none of them happened to be dmen. Quinn Hughes is an elite skater but we know from ASG skills competitions that the top forwards are faster, especially McDavid. Then there's the fact that because there are only 6-7 Dmen but 11-12 forwards, top Dmen take on more ice time so they have to pace themselves more whereas forwards can have more concentrated bursts to make a game changing play.

[@GilesMcRiker]

Unfortunately,-- setting aside the secondary recurrent talking point heaping praise on Quinn Hughes--that Central argument of this video is premised on poorly crafted arguments that don't hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Firstly, let's address the central claim that it is manifestly unjust that the NHL has so rarely awarded the Hart to a defenseman. . In response, I would arguethat it is insufficient to make that argument n the abstract without specifying in which specific seasons, which specific defensemen should have been awarded the Hart. Otherwise, without more, drawing conclusions by simply clunping and averaging seasons together, is analogous to considering a dish to be well cooked on average despite it being 1/2 frozen and 1/2 burnt. Second, after baselessly assuming the first argument, the video proceeds to provide an explanation that purports to account for this alleged historical bias, namely, by chalking it up to the historical unavailability of advanced stats up until recent years, thus rendering hockey writers historically blind and ignorant to the true value of defensemen, as revealed by advanced stats; and hence forcing them to rely only on traditional scoring stats, which favvour forwards. . However, even if one were to accept the premise that an unjust biased exists bias against defensemen, the rationale that purports to account for it is defeated by its own logic: That is, if the bias was truly due to the historical unavailability of advanced stats, then it is precisely in the past ~15 years that this bias should have disappeared! After all, now that the hockey writers have the benefit of the stats, they have been as genius as this Channel and finally realized the true benefit of defenseman, and voted them for the Hart. But that has not happened, and so it is a poor explanation for a bias that doesn't exist in the first place. In addition,, the video conveniently neglects to explain, let alone and point out, that over a 12-year period starting in 1932, the Hart was awarded to a D-man 8 times. Also, riddle me this: in 83--84, although Gretzky was awarded the Hart (for scoring over 200 pts) guess who the runner-up candidate was? It wasn't defenceman P Coffey who scored 40 G andv122 P, nor any of the other 11 players who scored over 100 ps that season. Rather it was a D-man, who ranked #214 in scoring with 33 P, i.e., Rod Langway. Seems like hockey writers and fans at the time understood the value of defensemen even before they had access to stats like PDO. But fundamentally, there are many other reasons to be skeptical of an unjust bias against defencemen. If it did exist , how does one account for pllayoff MVP, winners given that the Conn Smyth has been awarded to defensemen around a dozen times since the late 60s (including to S Savarrd, Orr, Robinson, Leetch, Niedermayer, McInnis, Hedman, S Stevens, Keith and Makar.)? Clearly, hockey writers were mindful of the value of d-men

[@jaeyonghwang]

You are damn right Hughes needs to be recognized more especially this season petterson and miller are not good as last year Hughes is single handly carrying the team w/o him Canucks are already out of playoff spot

[@CunuckHockey]

I made this video right before the Canucks got spanked by the Jets to knock them out of a playoff spot haha. Hopefully Hughes is able to carry a healthy Canuck lineup back into a playoff spot!

[@blueshky]

To be fair very few MVP's will be chosen from bad teams. And at this time, Vancouver is bad. I know it sucks to say. As a Blues fan to me Hughes is the best defenseman in the league, but they are strugggggggggggggling. So voters will look elsewhere.

[@CunuckHockey]

I think that's a super fair counterpoint. If the Canucks do end up missing the playoffs then I can agree that voters will likely look the other way and it won't be that controversial. But if this team makes the playoffs AND Hughes continues his dominance? I hope he gets a serious look.

[@blueshky]

@ yep agreed. He's carrying the team, and if they make the playoffs.....he is LITERALLY the most valuable player/defenseman.

[@Statsy10]

This video is a masterpiece. More people need to see it. Especially the trophy voters!

[@CunuckHockey]

Haha I really appreciate that! Things like you commenting help get more eyeballs on the video so thank you!

[@cassandragunkel6101]

Thanks for analytics to support what we all witness. I’m worried for Hughes long term health with a coach who plays him despite an obvious hand injury. The Canucks know his value to the scoresheet!

[@abrahamhorowitz8374]

The Kings spanked the Canucks last night with Hughes playing, but, in your defense, he was the only goal scorer for Vancouver in that game.

[@CunuckHockey]

It's been a rough couple of games for the entire team since the Toronto win. Team just looks completely discombobulated since everyone has returned to full health honestly, it's strange to watch.

[@racasm]

He is 100% carrying the team, without him they're nothing, I think he deserves to be in the top five, but he's really not even close to the guys like Mcdavid, draisait, and mackinnon. He's a little better this season, but in No way is he the best player. Saying this because what you said at the start.

[@28naveenator27van]

It's not the best player that wins the hart trophy. It's the most valuable player for his team .

[@zestplays]

Most Valuable to their team it the top 3 for the hart should be Hughes, Kaprisov, Draisital

[@CunuckHockey]

I agree with you that he isn't the best player in the world - that's still McDavid. But in terms of players most valuable to their team so far THIS year? I think Hughes is in a tier by himself.

[@nomadicnovels]

if that was the criteria for winning the hart then those three guys + probably kucherov would win it every year but that’s not the criteria…..

[@Dylligraphy]

It's hard to make an argument for a player carrying a team when they're not a playoff team, but if you're going to I think Rasmus Dahlin is worth a look. Buffalo was in the wild card spot but when Dahlin got hurt Buffalo lost every game and that's what took the Sabers out of playoff contention. One thing I know is Pronger deserves his Hart, carried Edmonton Anaheim and Philly teams to the Cup final that otherwise had no business being there, hard to quantify everything a defensive defensemen of Pronger's calibur contributes to a team but it was a lot.

[@saschaganser9671]

There`re 3 D men having insane seasons: Makar, Hughes and Werenski, who is basically lifting Columbus up single handed. Face it, the league has simply to many elite players. Kuch is insane, MacKinnon is insane, Draisaitl earned it, it`s him not McD carrying the Oilers. Eichel plays really good. Kaprizov has an outstanding season. Hellebuyck is insane. Add Werenski, Makar, Hughes - they are all elite players having fantastic seasons. You`re basically pointing out the issue with individual awards.

[@jamielennard3388]

Ironically, I think the way to fix this is to add a new trophy for the forwards. The Hart currently acts sort of like the Norris or Vezina for forwards, but if there was a Best Forward trophy for them to win, the Hart can really become about picking the most valuable player out of those three winners.

[@Melitonen]

Same thing with how defence don’t really get considered for the hart, I think more defensive defencemen should get considered for the Norris. I hate that the Norris just goes off which defenceman has the most points instead of who was actually the best all round defenceman.

[@malinuhhh47]

With all due respect to centers I feel that most dynasties are built on the backs of their best defensemen: Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Hedman, etc... Not just because of how much time they spend on the ice but how much apparent influence they have on team success at both blue lines. I agree with all your points that defensemen deserve more Hart consideration, great job on the video!

[@CanCro09]

This isn’t just a hockey problem though. It’s universal across sport in one way or another. Football(the real one) was dominated by Messi & Ronaldo even when other guys should have had some wins in there. But they didn’t put up the ‘stats’ people care about. The one exception being Modric who could not be denied in ‘18. NBA is pretty much always just the best numbers and favouritism. NFL almost always exclusively QB’s at this point. I could go on. The voters and the ‘fans’ are obsessed and only focus on the points/goals/tds etc.

[@CunuckHockey]

Yep you're absolutely right. It's really more human psychology than anything else haha

[@dtmrea247]

Agreed. They undervalue defensemen. And for Hughes, part of it might be that he is on Vancouver, and they haven’t quite been competitive or flashy enough in the past few years to get as much attention as Edmonton, Colorado or Tampa. But yeah, Makar and Hughes are the top 2 d-men in the league and should at least be considered when talking about MVP.

[@ryandueck2659]

I think some of it might come down to the fact that goals win games. It doesn’t matter if you out shot your opponent 40-10 if they score more goals than you. I’m the same sense it is more “beneficial” to the team for you to get a lucky goal than it is to have good advanced metrics but not get a goal. Having said all that I think there needs to be a bit of an overhaul to both the Hart and Norris trophy. (Maybe add a best defenceman award and make the Norris most points by a defenseman)

[@nodefense]

Cannot understate how much I appreciate this video. Perfectly vocalises my thoughts on Quinn and Vancouver this season. I also think the East coast bias plays a role in Quinn being overlooked in the Hart debate, it’s a problem in North American media that I even notice here in Australia. Well made video mate!

[@CunuckHockey]

I'm glad you found the video useful! I do agree that Quinn playing on the west coast is a difference maker as well. You have a great channel as well btw!

[@nodefense]

@@CunuckHockey thanks I appreciate that :)

[@alexthebasilisk]

After Kuch’s contribution to his team last year didn’t win him the Hart, the “to his team” argument is dead. That was possibly the hardest carry job of this millenium and nobody cared.

[@tsaageotrimm]

How the hell is Jack Eichel mvp candidate??? what a joke lol

[@CunuckHockey]

He's been having an amazing season to be fair. I wouldn't have him near the top, but he definitely deserves consideration.

[@tsaageotrimm]

@@CunuckHockey fair point

[@jonathanheroldfournier3069]

As an habs fan i can confirm that Hughes is the best defenceman with cale makar at the top! They are so versatile

[@CunuckHockey]

Haha absolutely. And to be honest, Hutson reminds me SO much of Quinn Hughes in the way he uses his edges to create offense. Can't wait to see how his career progresses!

[@glennhankins6927]

Time to trade Quinn Hughes to New Jersey for Jesper Bratt.

[@zacharydavis5822]

Would absolutely love that bring the Huges Boys to New Jersey, but no way Vancouver gives up Huges without getting an absolute haul in return. But I, too, wanna see the Huges brothers play together in New Jersey.

[@bransonb.v.ehrlich1699]

Phenomenal breakdown, great stat spread and layout. Sad to see how heavily dependent we are on Hughes showing up

[@CunuckHockey]

Appreciate it! Yep it’s live or die by Hughes at the moment. Hopefully Petey and Miller have a strong second half otherwise it’s going to be a lot of work for Hughes to carry us into the playoffs

[@Filterite5]

After Quinn’s 2 goal performance tonight just adds more fuel to

[@LodestarLogado]

Goalies and Defensemen get criminally overlooked for the Hart and it pisses me off so much.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

develop stats for puck possession / passing, setting up scoring chances, puck takeaways, defense zone coverage, and other?

[@saedo9723]

Also cause there's no best forward award, but there's best defensemen and best goalie awards. so there's a bias to forwards first for that one

[@Filterite5]

Very informative 👏

[@terencebradley7166]

EXCELLENT analysis and data, thx v m.

[@CunuckHockey]

Glad you enjoyed it! Really appreciate the comment

[@SirVTropic]

Insane production quality, amazing video

[@CunuckHockey]

Glad you enjoyed it!! These kinds of videos are always fun to make for me haha

[@TGalaxy24]

Hellebuyck all in bro The jets with im or without im has a way more big difference that Hughes with the Canucks

[@1q3er5]

mvp ballond d'or - they are all just popularity contests

[@markharrop6463]

Great video with solid arguments. Hughes has been better than last year, IMHO. I watch games just to see him. That said, two things work against him. Voters disregard d-men because they have their own award (not saying I agree with this but it seem to be the fact) and they don't like to give the mvp to players on non-playoff teams.

[@mike8099m]

They gave the best defensemen award to a guy that was -26 so yes you are correct it’s all about points

[@JayZed-tl5bc]

If you are a playoff-caliber club, and your best player is a blueliner, then you always have a shot at getting to the Final.

[@nomadicnovels]

justice for dmen and goalies!

[@CunuckHockey]

Poor dmen just being hosed for 80 years straight 😢

[@pjbolt3844]

he left the lineup and were were shambles. Give this man his MVP

[@bathtub_jim7652]

I agree, D men have the hardest job on the ice by far. This needs to be addressed.

[@ambjansam]

with you analysis, Quinn Hughes should be awarded the Hart !!!

[@francoisbouvier7861]

Part of the issue in this specific example is the Canucks mediocre season. There's nothing to do with Hughes' play, but it's definitely related.

[@rhwing5095]

Eh. Individual awards in a team sport will always be "tainted" by the team aspect. I.e., if you play on a good team, it's much more likely you will put up more points. "Most valuable" award is subjective. What does it mean, most valuable? If we go "by the book", it should be something akin to an award for a player who is the most distinguished on his team. A player who is literally _the most valuable_, without whom the team's quality of play drops significantly. If you have a team with 5 top players, one of them cannot be MVP. But is that how others interpret it? Certainly not. To many, it simply means the "best" overall player, doesn't matter if there's 3 other top players on the team. These types of awards are not based on any metrics and will always be subjective to how the criteria is interpreted by the voters. By the either definition, however, I would certainly agree that Hughes should be getting votes. I think, in the day and age of modern analytics, there's no reason why we can't create some statistic-based categories with no need for voting. I.e. "best defenseman" could be some formula combining shot blocks, takeaways, controlled zone exits, or what have you. Similar to the Jennings for goalies. Still, as with any team sport there will always be an asterisk because any such metrics are affected by the quality of your teammates. The real solution is not to put too much stock in the individual awards, and then all of this loses significance. It's a team sport, so we count the team trophies.

[@CunuckHockey]

You're a wise person, my friend. I don't disagree with anything at all.

[@marksmith-jp5gy]

Canucks fan here. All I want is our team to make the playoffs over Calgary and St Louis . 😑 If we make the the playoffs I'm gunna act like we won the Stanley cup and be running around screaming for a while.

[@Indium111]

Additional bias because Hughes plays on the west coast. Most hockey writers, who actually vote for the trophies, are asleep by the time the western games are on.

[@joestrunk9663]

Helley should be considered. Jackets are my team we love Z.last year Mcdavid wins MVP and lose to Panthers. No way Florida wins the cup without Bob. NHL integrity does not pass the eye test. Quinn is definitely Mvp status player .Been watching NHL every night for 45 years. NHL writer's write whatever the front office is trying to sell.

[@ionystherogue5627]

Id agree but hes not carrying them to an actual playoff spot. Just a wild card

[@biffstrong1079]

Werenski and Makar still grade ahead of Quinn Hughes for me this year. My guess is Eddie shore twice, Bobby Orr once, Did Lidstrom win it? Not many. For most of the time NHL defensemen didn't score. Hmm Pronger. Eddie Shore won the hart trophy four times. Most valuable to his team. Vancouver isn't a playoff team and has a better deeper lineup. Colorado, Columbus, Edmonton are playoff teams. Mikko Rantanen, Cale Makar and Mackinnon are it in Colorado and Colorado is the better team. .

[@dalriada]

D-men have their own trophy, and, yes the NHL needs a best defensive defenseman award.

[@nilswedman9818]

Forwards have 2 trophies and I don't see why that should make then uneligable for the hart

[@dirk903]

The "MVP" isn't most impactful player of a team... The letter "V" is the key, Valuable. MVP goes to a player that draws the NHL the most views/revenue

[@CunuckHockey]

By definition, the trophy is meant to award the player most valuable to his team - not valuable to the league. And I think the stats in the video are pretty conclusive about Hughes’ value to the Canucks.

[@amsf1]

The NHL has always and will always be a step behind in their way of thinking unless they accept change as it comes. They still havent figured out why viewership is down even though theyve made it impossible to watch unless youre in Canada. And they are attacking the best content creators bringing light to the sport. Embarrassing is right

[@Saltwound5]

Nucks would be nada without Huggy... at least at the moment.

[@gkarenko9593]

The fact that he plays in the West doesn't help either.

[@jordanfedirchuk1558]

Vancouver isn’t even in a playoff spot. 😂

[@dannycarlow8204]

The Canucks are going nowhere, Hellebuyck is winning the Hart this year.

[@brennendeschiffe]

great video btw, great effort. thx

[@CunuckHockey]

Much appreciated!

[@pattylonglegs3353]

You have to make the playoffs to have a chance at the MVP...

[@mikealkarout9555]

They ain't even in the top 10 let alone top 5 ,maybe that is why.

[@michaelflores4837]

The Hart is for the MVP of the league, not the MVP of their team.

[@CunuckHockey]

The Hart Memorial Trophy is an annual award given "to the player adjudged to be the most valuable to his team." That's the official definition from the NHL

[@HarrisonHollers]

Who cares if the team is not in contention?

[@shaylelarue787]

Yuuup not worried one bit about making the playoffs 😁😁😁

[@JoeSMITH-o8h]

Excellent analysis.

[@alessandroalafriz8162]

So this is a great argument, but I'm also wary that you might also be a Homer. Are you a Canucks fan? Not saying you're wrong, I just need to calculate for bias aswell.

[@CunuckHockey]

I am yep. But I’m happy to hear other arguments as well! I try to be as unbiased as I can when it comes to making these videos

[@alessandroalafriz8162]

@CunuckHockey I don't have another argument. I'm a Canucks fan too so when I agree with you that Highes should be in the race for the Hart, even I don't k own if I'm just being biased aswell. I'll admit, it's hard for the NHL to pass the Hart to defenseman considering the spotlight is always on forwards.

[@jaydenstrudel]

​@@alessandroalafriz8162 im a habs fan but i still think hughes should 100% be in the conversation for the hart(and norris too tbh), the team's numbers with and without him are like night and day he's insanely valuable to the team

[@eggstu]

Yeah this is a complete homer take. He isn't the best defenseman in the NHL. He also isn't the best player in the NHL. I see what your point is but nah dude. This take is off

[@CunuckHockey]

Didn’t mean to insinuate that Hughes is the best player in the league in general, so apologies if it came across that way. But I’m mostly talking about THIS season, and I think there’s no other player that’s more individually valuable to his team than Hughes. If you have any counter arguments I’m all ears!

[@blakehelgoth5247]

Isn't this why we have the Norris?

[@biffstrong1079]

But more defensemen should win MVP.

[@davideaston6944]

[@mattbcameron]

could there be an argument for MVP? sure.... is he "comparable" to bobby orr? no.

[@CunuckHockey]

100% haha, wasn’t trying to insinuate that comparison at all!

[@mattbcameron]

@ fair enough .. that was what I saw … I hope he at least gets a few votes.

[@breakawaybooks4752]

Quinn's the best player in the world.

[@krymz1]

rooting for our boy Hutson! sry nucks fans, see you in the playoffs hopefully!

[@CunuckHockey]

Easily the most stylistically similar player to Hughes in the league. So excited to see what both the Hutson bros do in the league!

[@dopeboygangsta]

Best player best defenseman hahaha yeah sure.. makar is better! Mcdavid is better hes not even top 10

[@BlaikeMcG]

Agreed

[@dominicguidetti8294]

Bro I actually got it right 😂😂 I guess 4

[@CunuckHockey]

Lmao buy a lottery ticket my man

[@AaronWiseman-cs5mn]

Great video.

[@CunuckHockey]

Appreciate you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@Xavier-016]

Vancouver fan detected!

[@CunuckHockey]

Guilty 👀 but I’d like to think I’d make this video even if Quinn was on another team. I try not to cover just the Canucks on this channel haha

[@robertanvilrm]

It's bull shit

[@Yochillitsthatserious]

If defensemen were better they’d be forwards

[@glennhankins6927]

Imagine thinking Hughes should deserve the Hart more than McDavid..... smh

[@CunuckHockey]

I'd argue McDavid isn't even the MVP for the Oilers this year, let alone the entire league. And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Oiler fans felt the same way as well. Again - the Hart trophy is for the league's most valuable player THIS season. Not just the best player in the world (which I do agree is McDavid).

[@Venture143]

god you guys are the biggest whiners in the league

[@CunuckHockey]

Haha apologies if it comes across as whining. I'm just trying to express my opinion and backing it with stats where possible!

[@jameshalmosi1550]

Of course, a biased Canucks supporter tries to create support for his players. Bottom line is there are far superior players on other teams, you are just blinded to the facts.,

[@CunuckHockey]

Haha I'm open to other arguments my man. I'm not sure how I'm blind to the facts when a majority of my video is listing out stats and comparing them to other Hart trophy favourites.

[@deanmarr785]

Delusional Canucklehead fans. Your team is not even in the Playoffs. Hughes is a defensive liability.

[@CunuckHockey]

It's okay to admit you haven't watched him play. Is he the best defenseman in his own zone? No. Is he a liability though? Not even close.

[@deanmarr785]

@@CunuckHockey 65% ozone starts. Please stop delusional canucklehead. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6GogZyii5iBbs0si=kUOvjxHwYU7UJ4U1

[@CunuckHockey]

That's quite literally incorrect information, lmao. Here's the actual O-zone starts data: Makar: 64.24% Hughes: 57.30% Source: www.naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20242025&thruseason=20242025&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=y&p1=8480069&p2=8480800&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

[@deanmarr785]

@@CunuckHockey What a Norris worthy defensive play. What a joke. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHm7hHyEpL6qoposi=xwqWi_SeCaREc854

[@CunuckHockey]

You got me good with that one Dean 😔 I have no further rebuttals

[@markharrop6463]

Great video with solid arguments. Hughes has been better than last year, IMHO. I watch games just to see him. That said, two things work against him. Voters disregard d-men because they have their own award (not saying I agree with this but it seem to be the fact) and they don't like to give the mvp to players on non-playoff teams.