The Nikola Jokic Hate IS GETTING WEIRD...

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[@symphoofficial1726]

The first Jokic/Embiid MVP argument is dumb, Jokic literally had more double doubles than Embiid played games

[@07ProdPhilly]

It's a funny stat to think about but that argument falls apart when the general consensus for a good starting center is for them to grab at least 10 boards. On top of Jokic being a first option

[@notimportant3686]

@@07ProdPhilly do you realize there are literally only TEN GUYS in total in the entire nba that have those 10 rebounds per game?

[@07ProdPhilly]

@@notimportant3686 that's why I said good center. That makes everyone else average

[@07ProdPhilly]

@@notimportant3686 although it was alot less than I remembered

[@lucidstudious750]

"Jokic had more double doubles..." "That's a stupid argument" "...then embidd had games" Bro WTF how was there an argument to begin with 😂😂

[@carsonrorie6399]

If it’s seen as unfair to give a guy multiple MVP awards, how is it any better to give the award to someone else simply because of “voter fatigue”?

[@jonnstewart2023]

it's unfair to the player, but mustard is saying it's also unfair to the players in the past who suffered because of it, cuz a lot of people base their rankings and how they view players off of awards and to not get those awards despite playing at a mvp calibre is unfair

[@goatmangoatman4536]

I don’t think mustard is saying it’s fair. I think he’s saying it’s unfair for everyone else that has gone through the same thing. Voters fatigue is real and has costed people mvps. Narratives are real and has costed people mvps.

[@ryanlucca5324]

@@jonnstewart2023 so the problem isn't the Jokic voters, it's the past voters. the clear cut MVP winning the MVP is not unfair in any case

[@tilly3702]

@@jonnstewart2023 It was unfair. Now were correcting it. To hell with voter fatigue, this is a good change. People shouldn't be mad about it.

[@ImAviex]

Its seen as unfair because they have consistently sold greats like MJ and LBJ because of voter fatigue, but now because of analytics and advanced stats he's deserving of it? It's almost like because Jokic isn't an LBJ or a KD that's why he's going to get votes and its just going to make MVP more of a joke than it already is.

[@ryanmccrary1880]

That Nuggets squad that Jokic drug to the playoffs last year was absolutely horrendous. Without Jokic, they would’ve had a top five pick.

[@sac1211]

Well now he has a better team so I don't want to see any excuses when a 3 time MVP somehow loses yet again in the playoffs keep that same energy for him as yall do for embiid when it comes to playoff wins.

[@IbkAdelekan]

Drug? Wild. Dragged.

[@Topolinho]

That team was historically bad and people underestimate that. Their offensive and defensive ratings without Jokic are some of the worst ever from an NBA team.

[@2448juan]

@perkman05 I rather have andre than will barton

[@aidangroves5153]

​@perkman05 yeah and russ was an MVP Lmao

[@shizzleshareef]

Thank you so much for mentioning that Embiid only won 3 more games than Jokic last season. You would think the Sixers won 70 games last season the way people were bringing up the Nuggets seeding when trying to give the MVP to Embiid.

[@malikwallace1693]

Either way won more played defense and was about same offensively

[@libertyaboveall5960]

@@malikwallace1693 Embiid does not have the playmaking of Jokic and Embiid is scared to post up guards and 3s

[@nikolakrstic8079]

if you look at the games where Jokic and Embiid actually played in, Jokic won the same % as Embiid or even better I'm not 100% sure

[@Drowninginpesos]

@@libertyaboveall5960 bro you do not want to see jokic defenseive stats. Embiid is second in defensive impact and win shares behind Giannas only. Wanna guess where jokic is as at? Or defense doesn’t matter to you?

[@malikwallace1693]

@@libertyaboveall5960 no but offese in total its close and jokic can't guard anyone

[@justc1re617]

Jokic has put up historic numbers every single year he's won MVP. He is literally having one of the greatest offensive peaks from a center ever

[@aLeXx1314]

True, this year has an even better case too, but a lot of people including myself, are not ok with someone having 3 MVPs without having a chip, last year MVP should have gone to someone else not to someone at the 6th seed. Also while it is a regular season award you can argue that player performance in the postseason actively affects the perceived value of a player for the following season. I got nothing against the man, but I am mad with media voting criteria for MVP which seem to constantly change and have in turn devalued the award.

[@jacobschippell2058]

@@aLeXx1314 i mean jokic took a team that wouldve been drafting paolo, ivey or jabari and put them in the playoffs while setting nba records. Thats the mvp i think is the modt unreasonable to take away

[@aLeXx1314]

@@jacobschippell2058 Where I come from, you don't get an award for 6th place and that has also been the case for the NBA until recently.

[@jacobschippell2058]

@@aLeXx1314 thats why it’s not a team award

[@jacobschippell2058]

@@aLeXx1314 most valuable player. Nobody in the nba elevated their team last yr more than Jokic

[@tdsm99]

Mustard corny as hell for not giving ANY context as to why the nuggets got bounced from the Playoffs. He quite literally had no help, his backcourt was austin rivers and Facundo Campazzo. No player in history succeeds with that

[@westbronco9066]

He got bounced because the Warriors put him in pick and roll every single possession. The nuggets offense wasn’t the problem, it was Jokic inability to play any type of perimeter defense that lost them the series

[@jonnstewart2023]

are u deaf, he literally said that it's not his fault, but the fact is if u give him contxt , u gotta do the same for bron amd MJ, and the problem is people are upset cuz he hasn't won yet, same reason why a lot of people didn't like giannis before he won the chip, cuz he had the enumbers and awards but wasn't getting it done, it doesn't matter that his team arguably wasn't good enough, fact is peole were saying nigga u lost, but becaues it's jokic all of a sudden context is neeeded

[@khairdixon8004]

two things can be true: yeah he didn’t have no backcourt, but he doesn’t play defense. I’m not gonna say he’s a cone, he’s ehh😂

[@_Xds_]

​@West Bronco same in the suns series cp3 and book feasted. Cp3 had one of the best series of his career cooking up jokic every single play.

[@bo978]

@@westbronco9066 which 7ft Center is guarding Steph Curry on the perimeter? When your 2 guards are traffic cones and can’t get by simple screens of course he’s gonna get cooked.

[@Kaitokola]

I am a die-hard warriors fan, have been since the Monte Ellis years, in 2021 Jokic was my MVP. What Steph did to drag us to even the play in was amazing but Jokic was just built different that year. In 2022, Jokic was more important to the Nuggets than Embid was to the 76ers. Both are integrable pieces to their team but Jokic did more with less. I have no problems at all with both of his MVPs. Edit: Damn bsolz did me dirty with that "Curry fans have given up on the season"

[@Leodoesthings23]

I’m a heat fan and no way, Steph def deserved that MVP, dude was going crazy that year

[@elijahrios9503]

Warriors fan too bro, just won 6 ina row, curry is about to come back🤷🏽‍♂️ mfs forgot we won the chip last year? Ask solz 🤣

[@Yusuf-yo1tp]

I am a magic fan and ur waffling

[@lucidstudious750]

I used to have a whole 2 page response with the stats and facts showing Steph was the true MVP that year. He DIDNT deserve it tho bc Jokic was higher up in the standings Pre injury curry was on pace for 5th seed while having the second worse team since the rebuilding 76ers and he would have won it. But again Jokic was the MVP

[@jonathanoloba7791]

Notice how they said, what’s the case for everyone but Giannis🥴

[@stanislavstef]

yeah, they also didn't mention the case for Max Kleber. It's rigged I tell ya.

[@d3va383]

@@stanislavstef bro giannis averaging like 32 and 12 with much better defense than jokic (and a slightly better record) and you compared him to Maxi Kleber?

[@Alex-bz2fv]

@@d3va383 I think you missed the joke man☠️

[@thetruth4654]

I think the MVP race is between Jokic and Giannis.

[@stanislavstef]

@@thetruth4654 it is... with Jokic ahead right now... Giannis is doing some crazy stuff, but Jokic is doing the same. For me - it comes to "who is the more complete bb player"... And that's Jokic.

[@velcro6113]

media members and voters were saying that about Giannis after his second MVP season, especially the people at the Ringer. I seen someone make a thread of them saying it on tv and podcasts

[@Officialaccount365]

Yeah I remember it too

[@dumbassdude8372]

Nasir johnson for mvp

[@Matt-zp1jn]

First the politics of Nash winning 3 mvp’s in a row, then Giannis, now Jokic. Did each of them arguably deserve a 3rd mvp? Maybe, a case can be made. Did they impact their team in winning record success in the league while putting up great stats in the regular season to lead their team?

[@rashadtho7762]

Apparently Giannis isn’t a factor in the MVP race now. Haven’t heard his name more than 3 times all video 💀

[@thereasonofficial9254]

And I noticed when solz was naming people that could contend he didn’t say Giannis name

[@thetruth4654]

Giannis should be above Embiid in the MVP race, as he should have been last season aswell.

[@everythingiseverything777]

literally just commented that! lmao like dude mentioned lebron and luka before giannis 😂

[@TheMissiIe]

"You can't keep moving the goalposts for players you like" while Mustard is also trying to move the goalposts so Jokic SPECIFICALLY doesn't win a 3rd MVP

[@cahrles2687]

Mustard was calling it for what it was, moving the goalposts

[@ryanscott1680]

Hes tryna bring back old goalposts wth XD

[@jonnstewart2023]

he literally said that he deserves to in it this year, did u even watch the vid, only problem he's saying is that it's hypocritical that in other years they switched the criteria for him,

[@notimportant3686]

@@cahrles2687 so he was basically completely wrong then... just like you... it's not moving the goal posts AT ALL... all 3 years he had the best statistical season out of all competition.... the difference was from the way all 3 years people tried to take different routes to DISCREDIT him.... he had the best statistics every year and it wasn't even really close what you're saying is nonsense

[@notimportant3686]

@@jonnstewart2023 but they didn't... idiots say they did, but why listen to idiots?

[@ohmyhazi3737]

You guys are acting naive, majority of the media 100% said Giannis has to win after his 2nd mvp. Twitter spaces isn’t the majority of the media lol

[@pheloniusmunk]

yup, people who vote on the award were saying this

[@notimportant3686]

but they didn't say that if he doesn't win he is no allowed to have the mvp award if he qualifies statistically

[@gabrielnieves9974]

​@@notimportant3686 No, they did say exactly that. Literally media voters said publicly that they won't vote for him after he lost in the playoffs the season before. 10% of voters left him out of their ballets completely.

[@DragonoftheDarknessFlame]

Fr I don't even use Twitter spaces.

[@congeee]

@@gabrielnieves9974 find 3 people in the media that said this. You’re making it uo

[@kb4231]

16:15 That Giannis narrative was out there from the media.

[@Shiljamannn]

They said the same for Jokic that he might be ineligable to win this year unless he is 1st seed averaging triple double on even better efficiency or something crazy like that to be considered in MVP convo... And he actually is doing just that 😅 Giannis in '21 regular season had slight drop off and Jokic won it because he had the same 3rd seed as Giannis, great numbers, higher efficiency and he played all the games in that season.... Giannis wasn't robbed in'21, Jokic just had better case for MVP that year...

[@cahrles2687]

acting liek they never heard that, those takes were flying out

[@jadeynlovely827]

i sware it was.They didn't acknowledge anything he was doing that season, and funny enough he ended up winning a chip that year.

[@ogheneovoojakovo9423]

Idk why they were acting like it wasn’t a thing

[@TheHoopaholics]

Facts idk why they acted like that narrative wasn’t a thing idk where they were looking 😂

[@sadoubarry7150]

Also, the giannis narratives were definitely going around. They gave the MVP to a guy in back to back years where we could clearly tell he had huge flaws in his game that teams exploited to eliminate him, and he had to prove otherwise to get people’s actual respect. Realistically his name should definitely be in the MVP convo much more seriously but his insane level of play on both sides of the floor has been normalized

[@notimportant3686]

nah... it's just that someone came along with better stats... let me put it this way, if people didn't have better stats than giannis that year, he would have surely won again...

[@edagos391]

@@notimportant3686 yes he has better offence but seriously think about it is the difference between them in Offense bigger than the difference in defense or not tbh if the MVP award was considered on both sides of the floor + win record i will not take anyone other than giannis

[@ImElectro]

100% remember this being the narrative. Bucks fan here so I followed it closely

[@dumbassdude8372]

​@@notimportant3686 No, Giannis didnt won his 3rd straight because of voters fatigue and the competition was actually close. The competition right now is also close with the factor of voters fatigue I dont think he should win it

[@Virgil191]

@@notimportant3686 jokic is only ahead in assists and giannis has more points to compensate that PLUS the whole other side of the floor

[@burner627]

They did say that about Giannis y’all just don’t remember

[@marcus_jb]

I love watching Jokic play basketball and I would in no way be mad if he won MVP, but I don’t like that people are saying he’s got it locked up already when Giannis is doing what he’s doing.

[@willnew4745]

Player fans ruin it for basketball fans.

[@Thehughesgaming]

That’s where I’m at too, like I’m a Nuggets fan but Embiid and Giannis have just as strong a case as him, it shouldn’t be a runaway

[@gojikid3335]

as a nuggs fan. giannis is doing what jok did last year but better record wise. he deserves more talk.

[@timholland2129]

@@gojikid3335 I slightly disagree. Bucks record without Giannis is 6-5. Plus, Middleton has already played more than double what MPJ played, and Murray didn't play at all. I think Giannis and Jokic are close in the race, but I don't think Giannis' help was as bad as Jokic's last season.

[@yokun1885]

​@@Thehughesgaming nah. Giannis missed a significant amount of games

[@ranojutro426]

Because he is white, normal, not tattoos, not big muscle, not selfish, not bully that the reason they hate Jokic. But he is amazing player and best of all amazing human being Love and support from Canada 🇨🇦 ❤ for Jokic God bless you 🙏,

[@Asap750]

Larry bird was a thing you know and nobody had an issue. So his race isn't the reason

[@bradthomas7431]

He’s maybe a 3 time mvp that’s never been to the finals bro. He’s nowhere near bird bro very overrated

[@pillow756]

@@Asap750 But Larry was a douchebag and everyone knew it, he was brash and out there, the living embodiment of fuck around and find out. Plus he was a white American. Jokic is a white foreigner who keeps to himself and doesn’t play nearly as flashy as bird was with his jumpers and everything

[@dudesouls]

@@Asap750 larry was a menace bro😂

[@davidcook680]

Well he is European fundamentally sound non athletic star. Isn't a showboat either.

[@napiernygma8075]

there is just no player who impacts winning in the league like him whenever i see him playing all i think of Jokic is just too solid he never have bad games and even when he does his presence alone bring wins

[@jorkeemmcgill6466]

I feel like it’s about him not being as exciting as other players. People want the MVP to be flashy and have an intense attitude like Morant and/or Westbrook but Jokic actually deserves it based solely on impact on his team and crazy states.

[@tonyis_lit1137]

@@jorkeemmcgill6466 nah Giannis deserves it he currently 17-0 and is still being huge impact on his team plus his teams have more wins the Jokic

[@ecoblitz3655]

Eh I’d argue curry is on par if not better

[@timholland2129]

Simply put bucks without Giannis 6-5, sixers without Embiid 9-4, nuggets without Jokic 3-5. One team has a losing record when their MVP is out.

[@avinashmihindukulasuriya6224]

@@timholland2129 when jokic is out, another one of their starters is out as well. you can go check for yourself. when you got 2 or more starters missing of course you're gonna loose big games.

[@Fraser748]

The disrespect to Giannis is crazy

[@ChrisJest]

To be fair. It definitely was people on sport shows saying it was no way Giannis would get 3 in a row.

[@fawazjarbo6448]

The biggest reason is why it’s getting weird is because every single player in the nba praises jokic and the media can’t stand it!!!!!!!!!

[@dulogmaz]

That guy really thinks we'd believe someone said "Yeah he can't get MVP next season" after Giannis lost to the Heat...... That's EXACTLY what people think about after playoff basketball..... God damn....

[@DragonoftheDarknessFlame]

My problem is they used "voter fatigue" for Jordan and Bron and made a new criteria for GIannis to not give him another MVP but Jokic it's thrown out the window. And yes the Giannis thing was real I've heard that shit a lot

[@yvans.]

Exactly that’s my thought too. I remember people saying that a lot.

[@josephadams7301]

Giannis missed like 20 games that year and Jokic put up historic numbers on a squad that lost its 2nd and 3rd best players. Dont think for a second Giannis was robbed or something.

[@yvans.]

@@josephadams7301 Winning a MVP Being a 6th seed… this is why people said they move the criteria every year. Russel and Jokic shouldn’t have been MVP because historically they didn’t give that to low seeding players. And Giannis wasn’t even in the conversation 20-21 even tho he had a top 3 MVP season but wasn’t even top 5. The media wasn’t going to give him regardless of his performance that year. And the reason why he missed so many games is because by the end (2 last month) of the regular season 20-21 the Bucks and Giannis understood he ain’t going to win no damn MVP anyway so they rather resting him for the upcoming playoffs. Those are the context.

[@xsjado_anon]

To be fair, there was a huge wave of complaints about fatigue a fee years back, videos left and right saying it's garbage and Jordan deserved a bunch more, as did Kobe and others. Voter fatigue was never going to survive the era of mass information - the dumb arguments used to justify fatigue based wins just don't fly anymore and get picked apart on every single social network, making it much harder for voters to lie to themselves about the real reason they are giving Malone the MVP over Jordan...

[@chilldoc9638]

@@yvans.embiid won 51 games jokic won 48, doesn’t matter if jokic was the 6th seed

[@andrewmays8990]

As a Embiid fan this continues to show me how underrated Giannis has become. Every one overlooks him as if he’s not having a historical season himself Edit: And yes it has been common for players especially Giannis recently to be criticized for no playoff credentials as a reason to sub him

[@jordanford9320]

Even when souls and sage we're like embid fans jokic fans curry fans kd fans I was just about to comment what Giannis Don't have no fans?

[@bdleo300]

The NBA media hates both Jokic and Giannis

[@NOBUJORDAN]

The shit that kills me is they say Jokic shouldn’t win cause he hasn’t been to the finals yet if Embiid won they would still be in the same position. A second round exit.

[@beardeduke0303]

and Jokic has never played with an all-star on the Nuggets

[@nateb188]

Jokic lost the mvp award, but he won a chip 🤷‍♂️ I doubt embiid will ever win a championship and I stand by this

[@OMARI461]

They definitely were saying that about Giannis after the disappointing postseason after the second mvp

[@Dutchdifferent]

Yeah they were cappin. MVP Fatigue is definitely real. Happened with, Lebron and Giannis

[@chilldoc9638]

Becuase Giannis was the 1 seed and played bad

[@alithedon1803]

Giannis has the best argument for MVP especially right now

[@libertyaboveall5960]

Giannis started out the year slowly and had damn near a whole month (I think it was november or december) where he looked like dogshit

[@nikolayjerev6138]

Nope

[@johnnydiabetes6563]

Nope

[@stanislavstef]

nope

[@afroemokid]

Nope

[@professionalmeatbeater6983]

23:10 so voting giannis is crazy? Even tho he’s putting up just as good numbers if not better and has a better record

[@dickthehead1145]

And doesn't get embarrassed on defense. 2 sides of the court and Jokic only plays one.

[@professionalmeatbeater6983]

@@dickthehead1145 KEEP SPEAKING I know MVP is a regular season award but his defence in the playoffs has been so garbage the last 2 years😭

[@libertyaboveall5960]

@@dickthehead1145 I'm not even a Jokic fan but this shit is so tired and untrue, he's a mediocre defender but yall act like he's the Trae Young of the 5 position and that just isn't the case.

[@HBG313]

Bucks win games without him

[@TheGoogergieger]

Jokic has won more games than him? Unless your argument is bucks won without him this year and that should also count? Also Nuggets have the best offense in nba history. Bucks are 18th. If defense is half the game, offense is the other half and they ain’t close on that side.

[@dulogmaz]

I honestly think it makes all the sense that a guy that leads the league in almost all advanced stats and wins a lot of games win an MVP in the time where analitics changed playbooks and overall philosophies of the game.

[@willnew4745]

Analytics still has a lot of flaws. The most important being the quality of the data. That’s why I’m in favor of projecting a players overall value based on how you think a player will perform in the playoffs. Think Harden regular season performances, the analytics were off the charts. But when the refs start blowing the whistle less, and teams turn up the defensive effort, all of a sudden the analytics don’t favor him. Too many teams and vets mess around in the regular season. The playbooks change, the rotations tighten, and the defenders play defense like it’s win or go home. That’s real value that the regular season analytics cannot account for.

[@chriswalkey2050]

@@willnew4745 NBA playoff PER leaders 1.MJ 28.6 2. George Mikan 28.5 3. Lebron 28.2 4. Jokic 28.1

[@tezman201]

Jokic really doesn’t have a argument over Giannis 😂 other than averaging a triple double

[@leenpels7646]

PER? TS%?

[@tezman201]

@@leenpels7646 doesn’t stop him from averaging more points and rebounds 😂🤡

[@leenpels7646]

@@tezman201 Assists? Playmaking?.. Oh and currently they are basically tied in rebounds (0.3 difference) I'm just saying.

[@TaviasBabb]

That Gianni’s narrative was true within media. Of those who were actual voters.

[@De3dSh0t]

The only time I'd argue he may have not deserved it was in 2021, I would've given it to Giannis who remarkably didn't even finish top 3 because of voter fatigue.

[@cahrles2687]

also 2022 steph curry was damn near unanimous then had the biggest slump in nba history

[@De3dSh0t]

@@cahrles2687 Fam his slump last 3/4 of the season, he was on fire for the first 20 games and then stunk it up for the remainder of the season until the playoffs started After his first 19 games his averages were 24/6/5 on 42/36 splits lol

[@cahrles2687]

@@De3dSh0t and you're point, I said the biggest slump if he didn't have you know a slump in general he wins???

[@De3dSh0t]

@@cahrles2687 No he doesn't, he needed to maintain his form in the start to win the MVP last year. His stats in the beginning were 30/6/6 on like 46/43 splits, great but not ridiculous. His team's record at the time (Warriors starting like 20-2) is what pushed his case big time.

[@tarunganesg9700]

@@De3dSh0t yeah the warriors surprised the nba with that hot start which is what made curry lead the mvp talk for the first few months. But additioanlly his stats were really good for that time, most nba players were having trouble with efficiency and ppg outside of curry, kd, and jokic during those months because of the defensive changes so curry really had an amazing case for mvp if he didn't go through such a massive slump.

[@Shiljamannn]

Giannis didn't pick Jokic because LeBron already picked Embiid first, and he thought he will have the other center regardless. But Jokic had other plans 😆

[@theinktician]

Nahh fr "Embiid Fatigue" is very real. I get tired just hearing Embiid name. Don't hate em - love his game - hope he gets a ring - but man, when people bring him up as getting robbed im just like "here we go again"

[@cyrillesu]

THIS.

[@bezllama3325]

Can't get passed the second round and and if 2020 counts to you (it doesn't go me for anybody not lebron nor jokic) than you can't hold that against jokic

[@cyrillesu]

@@bezllama3325 LMAO 2020 counts bro, just like how 1999 and 2012 counts.

[@KClouisville]

Doesn't help that Jokic seems like he couldn't care less about this stuff and Embiid was out there campaigning for MVP like he was running for office. It wasn't a good look for Embiid.

[@dopeman4ever]

Funny when talking about Embiid they don't mention Ben being gone and then Harden looking washed. And ppl did say Giannis couldn't win it again because he lost 2 straight series the same way wtf

[@nikolayjerev6138]

Why Harden is still on this team then. Why no changes on starting 5. From last year Denver roaster, there is only 1 player now.....

[@cahrles2687]

They won't ofc, even sage admitted he looked trash when it happened

[@Kaigiro]

Harden is literally averaging 21.6, 6.1, 10.6 this season. He’s legit a top five second option in the league rn. I can’t stand y’all Embiid stans. Ben was pretty good too until the 2021 ECSF

[@flight_knight_]

They really don’t like him. It’s probably something about his personality or something.

[@ImGayWhenISayThisBut]

They lost 2 series straight the same way? The Bucks lost to a higher seeded team that was expected to beat them both times? While playing without his 2 best teammates? While playing with ZERO teammate who have any meaningful accolades?

[@ThisThatTheThird]

I don’t think it’s fair you verbalized last year that Jokic was missing Murray and mpj but then skimmed over the entire Ben Simmons saga Joel embiid dealt with

[@Kaigiro]

I’m confused about the Ben Simmons thing what does that mean exactly

[@machoboys8884]

Joel should play more than 70 games in a season before he has a case over Jokic. Availability is the best ability

[@tdsm99]

No player with a 9+ nba career has played with LESS all star teammates than Nikola Jokic.

[@Kaigiro]

@@machoboys8884 yeah Joel is like actually street clothes and I think he gets clowned for it deservingly. I like him and I think he’s a great player but he gets minor injuries and sits out like a third of the season most of the time

[@fathadicita8048]

Lol... Jokic team still worse thought. Embid had Harden 20+ game. While jokic only had 8 Murray/MPJ game and Denver only winning 3 less than Sixers. And oh yeah, jokic win 46 last season while embid only 45. But okay it last year embid was the MVP let's go. He got robbed!!! Ouch, lost again in 2nd round. Lol...

[@JohnShoez]

Sage was def bout to call this man Honey Mustard 🤣🤣🤣

[@anddanny2263]

is it just me or are they intentionally dodging giannis' name

[@fearlesstay]

seems like huh

[@anddanny2263]

i still think giannis has a great argument for MVP this year with him being on top of the east, khris middleton being out/not himself for the entirety of the season, averaging 31-12-5 and is a top 5 defensive player in the nba. jokic obviously is also deserving of the mvp and i will not be mad at all if he gets it, i personally think it should go to giannis

[@YaThat.]

*The best defensive player

[@johnnydiabetes6563]

It should go to jokic

[@dumbassdude8372]

​@@johnnydiabetes6563 No, 3 straight mvps should only happen if theres no clear competitors. If there's competition voters fatigue should be a thing

[@malcolmhodnett8874]

Nigga just got on top of the east last week. Can’t pull that card so quick

[@aLeXx1314]

​@@malcolmhodnett8874The East is better this year though, Bucks been winning more than the Nuggets with a worst team and against better opponents.

[@gicueN17R0]

Yea, the thing is...us Jokić fans gotta deal with those Embiid fans daily it seems and we str8 up talk about about how dominant Embiid is and take nothing away from him. Jokić is JUST DOING MORE! You guys said it yourself. And the other thing is, he adds a new level to his game each year! He's added the dribble drive guard move from the top of the key and the Sombor Shuffle. He figures out a way to get even better or add a new wrinkle to his crazy but unique game each year. The stat pad argument is a joke. Do players pad?...sure. But Jokič simply cares about winning, his family and horses. But his numbers could be 4/6/4 and as long as they win, he's happy. We actually keep track of the times he is like Giannis last night one rebound shy or one assist shy. We call it a sombor double. But he respects the game, doesn't fight it so you'll never see him do what Giannis did at the end of the game last night to get his 10th rebound. Jok don't care about anything except a Championship. He doesn't care about awards or Accolades. He is embarrassed by it. Even when given the Game ball on the night he got his 100th triple double he was extremely uncomfortable and this was in the locker room. He just is built different than I'd say 99.9% of NBA players. He has a shoe deal with Nike...you ever see a commercial or his shoes for sale? Nope. The playoff deal. Last time I checked it wad a team sport. Jokić has not had a team even close to these other title holders since the bubble where they broke records and were a shot away from possibly upsetting the Lakers and moving on. Since then, he's played with guys off the couch, Argentina(no disrespect) and rookies or just mediocre players. Jokic hasn't even played with another allstar! So let's see how he does this year with an actual team around him. Does he need to show some progress and make it further? Yup. Is he a fraud 3x mvp if he doesn't? Nope. It's a regular season award and history aside, there's nothing about that argument that even holds water. Not gunna touch the race argument. That's just silly. Listen. They said it themselves. It was Joker, aka the Big Honey, the big tipper, and that's it. Props to Embiid and others great seasons but it's just that Jokić has done more. Period.

[@fakeprestongarvey]

yall can’t be deadass ? it was well known and publicly stated that they were never going to consider Giannis for his 3rd straight MVP after getting bounced in the 2nd round in the bubble

[@shadowninja2338]

I was personally hoping for luka to win mvp but I ain’t mad at jokic

[@alphabrother6823]

I somewhat disagree that it’s only Embiid fans. Every update to the MVP race I see, there’s always a Giannis fan there, especially now because of their win streak and becoming the #1 seed

[@ryanscott1680]

I mean, theres a strong case for Giannis, and theres something to be said about how he didnt even come up when yall are talking about cases that could be made. Like, thats some STRICT voter fatigue that only applies to him for some reason.

[@sillymiggyy]

sorry not sorry, but a center having a multiple triple doubles or double doubles, it's freaking amazing to me. there's no center who have the same triple doubles as Jokic. just Westbrook doing this kind of things. and Jokic is really a big deal. that's why he's the 2 time MVP. this season is really rigged. because Jokic is the True MVP in this season. from PER to VORP, and Top #1 Seed in the West.

[@aleksandarzotovic]

it's incredible how much the NBA as an organization panicked because Nikola will be MVP 3 times in a row, so they play various spins and even publicly insult him in the watched NBA shows, this is unacceptable, with all due respect to the other players, anything but 3* MVP will be theft world scale!

[@ektran4205]

foreign players winning mvps is an indictment of the american basketball developmental system

[@aleksandarzotovic]

@@ektran4205 I know that the Americans currently do not have their own player to make him MVP, that's why they are pushing Jayson Tatum, this is the last chance for Embiid to do something like that, but I think that Embiid will always miss that little something, Janiss is a perfect opponent to Jokic, but he is not constant, he missed is a good part of the matches, we'll see, the Americans don't have a constant player to play the whole season at the top level, but that's why I'm convinced that after Nikola's 3 MVPs, the next MVP will surely be an American, 99.9%

[@baileyv5239]

The Giannis can’t win three in a row, because of no championships, narrative was absolutely a thing. Pretending like it wasn’t just shows you forgot or were just not plugged in that year

[@denim5667]

it makes zero sense why he’s so hated dog. eye test, analytics, winning, i mean he does it all practically. jokic is an elite player

[@mnokov2554]

elite offensive player

[@Gaingar]

Defense is half of the game so there’s that lmao

[@KiraDaBeastNY]

​@@Gaingar Jokic has actually gotten better on defense tbf, but he still is gon get cooked by good perimeter players

[@denim5667]

@@Gaingar statistically, he’s not even a bad defender, he’s average to above average. y’all are accustomed to elite defenders that can guard and do everything that it doesn’t matter though

[@johnmarkson1990]

@@denim5667 he has good stats but they eye test suggests he is a awful defender.

[@HummingbirdCyborg]

Embiid has never had a real case. Giannis has had a legit case, and could have won either of the last two, but shouldn't have been favored over Jokic. Jokic did have a slightly better year both years, but it wouldn't have been a travesty if Giannis was chosen. But yeah, the rest of this is just rewriting history in order to complain. But, voter fatigue has always been bullshit and it shouldn't be a thing.

[@ryannelson2653]

Nikola Jokic would still be the MVP even if you include playoffs over the last 3 years. Jokic’s numbers + Durability in the regular season is unmatched in the NBA and he has been elite in the playoffs the last two years but his team was overmatched. The only series where the team talent was close over the last two years was the Portland series where Jokic had to beat Damian Lillard who averaged 34.5 PTS(44% from 3 on 13 ATT), 10 AST with only 2 TO per game. Lillard was a top 5 player in the postseason while only playing 6 games lol! Jokic only averaged 33 PTS and 10.5 REB on 53% from field and 43% from 3!

[@aaronwatland987]

unsubscribed. narrative against giannis 2020-21 was clear and blatant, and was talked about all throughout the media. he was castrated from that MVP race, look at the numbers and tell me why he was COMPLETELY left off of so many ballots… and for some reason Jokic isn’t getting the same standard. Giannis’ team has been hurt ALL year and they still aren’t 100% yet they have the best record in the NBA, which Giannis has spearheaded. Jokic and Giannis have similar offensive production but defensively Giannis is in another galaxy than Jokic… tell me, what does Giannis have to do to get an MVP? What more can the man do?

[@daroduong5280]

The problem is that he the most boring mvp in history

[@nikolayjerev6138]

You are casual

[@ninecool11]

I think the issue is people just want Embiid to win 1 mvp and Jokic is stopping him every year

[@dnairish]

23:10 so defense doesn't matter? Giannis has the stats, the winning, AND the defense.

[@ahmadbenjamin4462]

Defense is under stats bruh idk what you're smoking Also, Steph Curry have bare minimum defense, to compensate that he has goat offense scoring and playmaking wise so idk why you're making this argument

[@dnairish]

The funny part here is that Steph is a better defender than Jokic

[@westbronco9066]

@@dnairish exactly Steph is actually a positive to his teams defense, Jokic is literally targeted every single possession in the playoffs

[@dnairish]

@@westbronco9066 Maybe if all teams forget how to run a pick and roll Jokic might win something.

[@westbronco9066]

@@dnairish exactly and it’s not looking good in the west because all the top contenders in the west run through elite ball handling scorers who will expose him once again. If he was in the East he’d have a much better chance against teams like Philly and the Bucks who like to play inside the perimeter

[@huxleybennett4732]

I hate this argument of "this is a good thing, but it was bad in the past so it should stay that way"

[@siler22]

Just one thing to say, Giannis in 2021 was early favorite to win mvp award along with usuall suspects (no Jokić ofc) and finnished 4th in mvp voting with no finals reached ofc ... and in post Jokic mvp seasons everyone was disgusted to mention him as possible mvp winner again

[@tresama6993]

Big UPS to my boys let’s keep it a buck🙏🏾

[@ChrisJoestarr]

The funny thing about the video is the guy keeps bringing up Jokic lack of success in the playoff meanwhile I'm still waiting for embiid to make a NBA finals.

[@nusproizvodjach]

Or even conference finals...

[@quadavis4]

Only reason Giannis didn’t have 3 in a row was because he needed a chip, he did that and now gets snubbed for every regular season

[@petarpavic112]

Only reason giannis didn't win 3 mvp's in a row is because jokic was better

[@quadavis4]

@@petarpavic112 tell me why he was better? Honestly look at the numbers and the team records

[@YaThat.]

​@@petarpavic112 he never was and never will

[@tjclark6928]

Love when y’all upload, favorite basketball channel fr fr

[@markocurcic6314]

Elderly white males that have a vote: Stephen A., Chis Broussard, Jalen Rose, Kendrick Perkins, Ramona Shelburne.

[@tevmac93]

Jokic winning MVP the first 2 times because of stats and bringing the team to the playoffs and now he's winning it because the team is healthy and now they're 1st seed. With this logic, quite a few players should gotten extra MVPs

[@TheMissiIe]

Yes, but it's hypocritical to say you wanted past players to have more rings.. and then day Jokic doesn't deserve a 3rd because say Kobe only has 1.. you actively agree with the people that didn't give Kobe or Shaq more MVPs and you don't see it. That's the hypocrisy

[@73sour99]

@@TheMissiIe I mean that's fair but I just don't feel like Jokic is the clear cut MVP this year like you are making it out to be. He's at the top of the conversation for sure. But Giannis hasn't had Middleton for 40+ games, and the Bucks literally have the best record in the league while Giannis is putting up top 5 offensive production AND anchoring the best defense in the league. If Jokic deserved it last year for dragging nuggets squad to the 6th, I think Giannis has to get some consideration this year right?

[@AvysWorld1]

wrong. the first one was basically because lebron n joel got hurt.

[@paquinraino8180]

@@AvysWorld1 and Giannis was left out because " he didn't win a ring" to earn a 3rd MVP in the row, they're changing the criteria for Jokic tho

[@sac1211]

Lebron and Jordan definitely could've 3 peated MVP if the media was actually smart.

[@JohnShoez]

Mustard look like he wash his face with Mustard

[@dnairish]

25:42 no mention of Giannis here in the list of Embiid, Luka, tatum, LeBron is some crazy hater shit.

[@rashadtho7762]

Shit is crazy

[@Thepandahat711]

2021 Giannis averages 28 11 and 6 on the same efficiency as jokic with his team winning one less game than jokic and him playing miles better defense I'm not saying Jokic didnt deserve to win but to say the media didn't ignore giannis that year is crazy ESPN and FX1 literally had segments about how he can't win 3 straight untill he gets a chip I get Jokic is playing like crazy and if he gets a third mvp it's deserving but to act like other players weren't ignored in the voting because of their lack of post season success is honestly insanely ignorant when people bring this up its not to hate on jokic for his "failures in the playoffs" its literally pointing out how they legit cherry pick what players they like and don't like.

[@MrLatrunks14]

The last player to win 3 consecutive regular season MVP awards? Some plumber named Larry Bird. I wonder whatever happened to THAT guy? Nikola Jokic winning the MVP award despite the Nuggets being the 6th seed is living proof that Dwayne Wade should of won MVP in 2009 over Kobe and Lebron. But the popularity contest wins over everything

[@jonathantorres8409]

Proof Kobe shoulda won over Nash

[@dulogmaz]

If it was a popularity contest Curry wins 2021 Embiid wins 2022 etc etc... Ain't no damn way Jokic wins if it was a popularity contest my guy, open your eyes

[@tiktokexposed898]

Lebron was just a much better player than Dwayne Wade in 2009 thats why he won

[@jonathantorres8409]

@@dulogmaz idk jokic is a very popular player I think 2022 was more just philly fans being loud again

[@ryanlucca5324]

@@tiktokexposed898 not only a much better player, he carried the cavs to 66 wins with his best help being from co-star(lmao) Mo Williams, big Z wayyy past his prime and stepdad Delonte West.

[@goldenstatewarriors9418]

Last year Jokic won 46 games and Embiid won 45. Jokic played with Will Barton and Monte Morris. Embiid played with James Harden and Tyrese Maxey. Giannis should be the one feeling slighted considering this discourse has been Jokic vs Embiid when he’s better than both.

[@jahcode6132]

Also, where did the narrative come from that Jokic only has advanced stats going for him? I was watching some Embiid highlights and some of the Jokic haters were in the comments mocking Jokic fans saying stuff like "BuT JoKic HaS a HiGher VOrP" as if the dude wasn't averaging a triple-double on the best team in the west. No hate to Embiid and I don't really know or care who's better just pointing out how weird it is that people say this about Jokic.

[@cahrles2687]

but when embiid was on the best team in the east that shit don't count?

[@ubadman1]

@Cahrles when was embiid on the first seed in the east?

[@bezllama3325]

@@ubadman1 2021 although I agree jokic deserved it that year

[@cahrles2687]

@@ubadman1 2021

[@forthe3136]

@@cahrles2687 he only played 50 games that year, how about you pay attention next time

[@arwenguitarplayer963]

Obviously if Joker was black nobody would think he shouldn't be MVP

[@KiraDaBeastNY]

The one thing I will say about this whole thing with people complaining about the criteria consistency of the MVP is this. The criteria has never been consistent. The only things that have been consistent are four things. One elite individual stats, two winning, three impact, and four narrative. Those are what combine to make an MVP case. That is it. How much weight they have depend on your personal interpretation, but if a few of those combinations are exceedingly strong, you got a winner.

[@austintowns2629]

The MVP award is definitely inconsistent in their criteria.

[@victorya308]

I think you guys missed the point of the whole video, the main reason why some people are angry is because of the inconsistency for what makes a mvp from year to year, it just makes it seem like favouritism, basically changing the narrative about what you care about to fit the player that you like . Some people take it too far and start saying joking is trash or not an mvp calibre player(which isn’t true) but I don’t think it does justice to the convo to dismiss because of some weirdos who take it too far

[@KiraDaBeastNY]

It's never gonna be consistent tho. It never has been lmao.

[@josephjohnson8142]

what has been inconsistent about Jokic winning mvp? He's consistently had the better stats and contributed more to his team winning.

[@Maloman05]

But is it really inconsistency though? I think the justification for Jokic winning MVP each year was completely valid. I think there are valid arguments for other players but that’s how the MVP works. The thing about Jokic’s MVP was he was having historic contributions to his team. Like, that squad without him was statistically the worst team in the NBA. Like, the narrative is pretty consistent. Embiid was hurt too much and Jokic was default in voting the MVP, that’s completely valid. Jokic then has a historic season with much worse squad. Then his team is having the best season they’ve had with a lot of the same players as his first MVP. It’s always about how he doesn’t deserve them and less about making a concrete case for why another player deserves it. Bringing up why other players deserved different MVP’s in different eras even is so mickey mouse.

[@Maloman05]

Sorry for the essay

[@TheGoogergieger]

I mean if people wanna take context out of everything and make up history, sure. But Jokic was the only viable and healthy candidate his first mvp, his second mvp he won like 3/4 less games than the other two candidates with his second and third best player out, played more games, and had a season nobody else has had in nba history. This year he’s even better than that and his team is first in the west and like what? One game behind the bucks where Giannis has missed games?

[@qhamarii0]

3 MVPs & 3 top 5 seeds no chip lmaoo😂😂 is tufff nigga don’t have a shot this year

[@HOF.SPORTS24]

I think a lot of the “hate” on joker stems from 1 there’s a lot of Embiid fan and just people in general believe he’s the best big in the league so joker winning the mvp when in there minds he not the best at his own position doesn’t compute and also playoffs when joker is consistently getting bounced first round second round it’s makes people question wether he should have won even tho his teams were dealing with injuries

[@gerarddelon3844]

What hell is this crap.

[@eneettejr.1312]

Solz and sage gotta be trolling because there was definitely a media narrative that Giannis got two MVPs but he can't do it in the playoffs so is he really the MVP

[@Alex-nh1hb]

Think about the past, Kobe only winning 1 mvp, Wilt averaging 50 and not getting the MVP, Lebron, MJ, and other greats never getting 3 straight, and then you see Jokic getting 3 straight.

[@Mihailo26]

you can stop living in the MJ era and you can start enjoying the NJ era... "no homo" as Jokic said 🤣

[@Alex-nh1hb]

@@Mihailo26 I honestly like it better the way the award is voted on now, but the change will obviously cause controversy, and make it difficult to compare accolades to past players

[@timholland2129]

So, let's say a system is failing causing a loss of money for clients is fixing that mistake bad because it is unfair for those who already lost their money, or should we just let the problem continue to keep happening?

[@Helder_1]

I know this is like 6 months old but fuck the past lol If a player is great, give the mf the damm award It is what it is This shit legit fucked up the award "I CAN'T GIVE PLAYER A THE AWARD CUZ PLAYER B DIDN'T WIN THE AWARD 3 TIMES SO I'LL CREATE ANYTHING TO FUCK PLAYER A"

[@davidbates4071]

Jokic set a new PER record at 32.85 that was held by wilt for 50 yrs and set a new BPM at 13.73 that was held by LeBron since 09 in 2022. Without his supporting cast. He's not just putting up stats he's doing it with efficiency, HISTORIC EFFICIENCY! The playoff narrative everyones trying to push with him is ridiculous! He's been farther in the playoff than embiid ever has(conference finals 2020). 2022 playoff average jokic 31pts 13.2reb 5.8 ast- Embiid 23.6pts 10.7rebs 2.1ast.

[@rickflairdrip4074]

People did say that about Giannis y’all kinda capn right there

[@robertseverin1773]

Why is it that everyone who uses the term moving the goalposts are the ones who are moving the goalpost to say joker shouldn't win

[@darcyendlicher]

If there was a all star draft through the 00s I can almost guarantee tmac, ai, Vince, wade, Ray Allen would be picked over Tim Duncan

[@burner627]

How Jokic slander gonna go crazy after he loses

[@ogheneovoojakovo9423]

Solz isn’t making sense or trying to understand mustards pov and sage is just agreeing

[@_Daza]

The conversation with Giannis after he lost to Miami wasn’t he couldn’t get another MVP award. It was till he wins a championship or gets to the finals was don’t call him the best player in the world until he finally gets over the hump 😂

[@GotchaKethm]

To be fair to honey mustard there was some media ppl not voters that said that Giannis shouldnt win a third straight cuz h couldnt win in the playoffs In context of voter fatigue i think nas him losing affects voters wanting to vote him next season, but was anyone declaring it

[@rapgodreloaded9259]

Luka Doncic game isn’t even built for the all star.

[@Mike-xh1qy]

The d suck if jokic is insane bro lol embiid should have definitely been the MVP last season like what are we doing

[@sadeugas8037]

Giannis is my mvp, he’s avg 32pts, 12 boards and 5 assists while being a defensive juggernaut, Jokic’s lack of defence should factor more into the conversation instead of just his offensive advance stats

[@thejman4014]

I don’t think Jokic has the MVP on lock yet. With how Giannis is playing and how he is winning despite his teammates being hurt through the year, and they are on a 16 game win streak and have the best record in basketball and they are playing in the stronger conference this year

[@MrExcessum]

Multiple games in that streak were won when Giannis wasnt playing? And there is no chance in HELL that east is stronger conference, when Lebron and AD are in the 11th place in the west. Dont even go there.

[@thejman4014]

@@MrExcessum Giannis played in all but one of the games during the 16 game win streak, what are you talking about. The reason that Lebron and AD are in 11th isn’t because the conference is amazing, it is because they both get hurt and miss a shit ton of games and the roster sucked before they made the trades before the deadline. The East is the stronger this year, Memphis and the Kings are the 2-3 seeds in the west. Philly and Boston would probably steamroll both teams in a 7 game series. Golden state, Mavs, Clippers, Pelicans and Lakers have all been disappointing this year. Three of the 4 best team records in the nba this year are Boston, Bucks, and Philly. I do believe that the Giannis has a very good shot at winning MVP as he has been amazing this year and is still the best player in the world. Bucks have the best record in basketball and his 2nd and 3rd best players on the team have missed considerable time this year due to injuries.

[@justc1re617]

The argument he shouldn't have his second MVP when he literally got more wins that season in his first MVP season. The west was just a bloodbath. He also had even less help than the first time he won it

[@kalamitycrisis9816]

That was the narrative about Giannis in the main stream media. Giannis is undoubtedly the Best player in basketbal right now and he should get MVP in my opinion he also has a better record than Jokic without his second best player Middleton, while also being a top 5 defender in the league light years ahead of Jokic on defense

[@stanislavstef]

nope

[@user-lh8zz6st5r]

@@stanislavstef nah he right

[@lujoviste]

Yeah Giannis and his run, dunk, run, dunk, run maybe shoot a little deeper? Nah dunk, don't play 10 games, run, dunk

[@avinashmihindukulasuriya6224]

16:32 its crazy tht both sol and sage said tht they didn't hear nothing about giannis not winning a 3rd mvp cause of his early playoff exits. multiple journalists had said that they couldn't give giannis a 3rd mvp cause he still hasn't won a championship during tht time. tim mcmahon was one of the reporters that carried that narrative.

[@cahrles2687]

19:05 this is how I know BSOLZ and Sage really don't know what they talk about, if your case is the stats + no help then this year it can't be him, how is it not Luka then avg 33 8 and 8?, if you actaully care about defence how is not Gianiis, Embiid or Tatum. The goalpost should stay still and we should stay consitent with how we choose MVP's DPOY and other awards that affect people's legacies and such. 2017 was one of the few and proabably the most deserving moving the goalpost season but in 2018 went to the best player on the best team same in 2019 2020 but then that stops then, lets look back at 2016, 2015 and every MVP before then hmmm there seems to a common thread running through them

[@michaelchukwualuka9059]

Facts bro . This guys are clowns . They don’t watch the games

[@lrkcm373]

Giannis could win MVP every year, but got voter fatigue since he’s the #1 player in the league.

[@Shiljamannn]

Now go to Kendrick Perkins's take about the Jokic's stat padding... And the race card bomb on NBA first take...

[@rickharrison1737]

This dude literally is lying on camera. Nash was definitely close to winning a third straight MVP. He got 44 1st place votes coming in 2nd to Dirk in 2007.

[@LaniWorld02]

Can we please get a Steve Nash bag talk video please I’m begging you lmao

[@ksiolatuji7793]

D riding jokic when he keep winning mvp with no ring but they criticized lebron for not winning but jokic gettin a pass

[@briskethong6367]

I personally think it’s irrational hating.

[@Huggies32]

Giannis is going to win mvp this season because he is just the better player