The Oathpact | Wind and Truth Shardcast

[@Sheija]

I can’t wait for Adolin’s exasperated reaction to Kaladin returning as a storming Herald lmao. Pretty sure in Oathbringer when Kal almost swears the Fourth he has a line where he says how Kal looks like one.

[@Dtm540]

Kaladin becoming a herald gives me hope that he and Sigzil will meet again one day given they’re now both immortal. Maybe it can involve Kaladin giving Sigzil some much needed therapy

[@Buphido]

Oooh this has to happen now! Tho it’ll probably take until space age cosmere, considering what we know from Sunlit Man…

[@AGrassy29]

So do we know how Sig becomes immortal? Is it just because he’s now a world hopper?

[@hubrisnxs2013]

​@@AGrassy29dawnshard

[@brysonberan2505]

​@@AGrassy29from holding the dawnshard, if you want more Sig, you should read Sunlit Man

[@ForgetableOne]

Sig is coming back to Roshar since he had to activate his plate before TSM

[@linuxsbc]

I'm pretty sure Kaladin's whole "spear that did not break" speech to Amaram was foreshadowing for him becoming a Herald (as a parallel to Taln), especially with how the chapter headers showed his stone as the only unbroken Herald. I actually made a Reddit post about that a few years ago, so I'm excited that it ended up being right.

[@dpart3106]

Kaladin, herald of one liners

[@heatherrockwell9012]

Obviously, 'Son of Tanavast' refers to how Kaladin will be Honor's son-in-law after marrying Syl.

[@17thShard]

Obviously! -Eric

[@Depressugar]

And the royal crown of a queen Syl gets obviously is a reference to her now being the partner of the new Herald of Kings

[@towinandsave1520]

I love idea of Kaladin returning and saying reversed Taln mantra that would refelect how Heralds have changed. "Kalak will teach you about justice" "Vedel will teach you about forgoten mediacl knowledge"

[@franzi2354]

Kaladin becoming a Herald had me somewhere between crying and cheering - honestly I know it's kinda stereotypical for the heroic main character, but it just fits so well. And I can't think of anyone better suited to be the freaking Herald of Kings - just love this bridgeboy so so much. Also can't wait for Adolin and Bridge Four being like "told ya he's not dead" when he has his dramatic return.

[@Hugo-qf1wb]

In regard of the unothed plate in TSM, its said in WaT that the unothed plate has no radiant glyph in the chest, as they are not radiants, meanwhile Nomad's chestpiece has the skybreaker glyph. Its a stretch but it makes sense that they reacted thay way

[@JennHernes]

33:40 The image of Syl and the windspren charging against the Everetorm and driving it back gave me goosebumps

[@Buphido]

Regarding Zellion being identified as Oathed once his plate forms: Unoathed plate is specified as lacking the Radiant order Glyph of Radiant plate, so that might‘ve given him away.

[@philsajor6724]

I know it hits different for individuals, but Herald of Second Chances was what made me cry so much for this book. It was just a culmination of Kaladin's triumph over all his pain 😢

[@_argent]

To be clear, I love the concept! I just find the phrase and the delivery a little too cheesy.

[@Haxerous]

@@_argent that's basically the whole book in a way.

[@ForgetableOne]

I think it's better in the context of Kaladin's new other titles, most of the time that title is going to be said, in addition with Herald of Kings, Herald of the Wind; Herald of Second Chances​@@_argent

[@AdySeifer]

Goat lineup, looking forward to this!

[@Alpharho]

Yes!

[@17thShard]

Shardcast classic lineup. -Eric

[@flyingmalkie4346]

Kaladin will do a kata eventually, and he will have the other heralds there like "Pretty good kid, let us show you a couple things"

[@alphaomega5673]

I think it's gonna be a training montage for kaladin as much as It is a therapy session for the heralds, I think when the heralds return kaladins pov will have some sort of aspect of the heralds taught him alot over the time skip

[@spaceviking_333]

The “Child of Tanavast” thing from the Stormfather was an insult said with contempt this entire time. The Stormfather figured Kal would kill Syl like the way Tanavast failed.

[@17thShard]

That's an interesting idea, I haven't heard that one before. -Eric

[@spaceviking_333]

@@17thShardif the Stormfather secretly hated Tanavast then his comments make sense because Kal almost did kill Syl.

[@ForgetableOne]

​@@spaceviking_333I think he's insurance that Kaladin would kill Syl is hatred for himself that he's projecting. The last leader of the Windrunners was broken my Tanavast and led the Recreance so the Stormfather is weary of Kaladin, I think Son of Tanavast is unrelated since it's specifically called out in the Knights of Wind and Truth in world which reeks of foreshadowing

[@Sheija]

The connection between Kaladin and Rand from Wheel of Time, and the influence in general, were strong to me. The Ariel in that series are symbolised by the spear, and Rand is prophesied to save “a remnant of a remnant”. Kaladin’s prophecy says “he must pick it up, the fallen title! The crown, the tower, and the spear”. He also has the extended musing and metaphor on the spear that would not break. And he is bonded to Syl, who seems to inherit the Stormfather’s memory in the same way he did Tanavast’s - making her a remnant of a remnant.

[@peaceofcrap]

Another Grace episode, truly the Heralds smile upon us.

[@shyampadia]

Finally the podcast we’ve all been waiting for

[@sleepinxonxbed]

Grace always comes with the hilarious takes that makes everyone break out in laughter Also dunno if you mentioned this before but 1-21-24 is A-U-X

[@scienceexplainedsimply8115]

2:34:26 I think the way they could tell is that Unoathed Plate doesn’t have a glyph on it whereas Radiant Plate does.

[@boppy9617]

26:25 i see the oaths being accepted as a formula. the cosmere measures your intent vs the intent of the oath and the stormfather/cultuvation/syl just relay the result

[@Obzerver]

I think you guys skipped over the fact that Kaladin's oath was not about holding back the darkness. "I accept this journey". Kaladin claims that the Words aren't actually important, its the heart. But its possible the specific words are more important that we currently assume. This could be a possible answer to Eric's question of how the Heralds are going to return in back half.

[@Tridona]

Ohhhhh yes more wonderful analysis. Thank you so much for this

[@ForgetableOne]

Guys Chanarach was Jezrien's body guard. She was Jezrien's Kaladin. Now she's going to be Kaladin's Kaladin. They can bond over their time guarding their respective King of Kings, and now Kaladin is King of Kings. And he's best friends with her daughter, he can tell her about Shallan. HE'S TRYING TO REPLACE SHALASH'S FATHER KALAK GOT HIM BRANDED BATTAR IS A TRAITOR GIVE ME BRAIZE/SPIRITUAL REALM/VISION LAND DRAMA RIGHT NOW

[@linuxsbc]

Remember that the Stormfather was able to choose to accept Eshonai's Words despite them not being spoken. As a result, I think he has some control-he can kinda bend the rules in how he accepts oaths-even though he's not totally in control.

[@BinarySecond]

It's all capital i Intent

[@Sheija]

Eric 1:13:10 I think the previous Returns were triggered by a specific broken oath - "I will hold back the darkness". How do you do that? By bringing Light. This time I think the Heralds will return with Stormlight, so instead of broken Oath this Return will be a Promise fulfilled. At the same time, Kaladin's promise is to accept the journey, and the Return is a classic part of the heroes journey. And I think Eric is absolutely right that the spren will be able to transition freely when the Heralds return. In the new Oathpact, they are being locked/protected in the same way the Fused are and we know that during a Desolation Fused were able to cross freely. Seems like the same thing

[@ForgetableOne]

Kaladin, my goat of goats🫡

[@alzerpa]

About wanting kalading as a herald to be more than a fighter, I think that we can be confident that's going to be the case not just form him but for all of them. I mean Taln is going to still do what he does, but there is some énfasis in the heralds becoming teachers for humanity going forwards, and i think that this matches well with kaladin's arc. A soldier who has fought to much, he accepted to retreat from the front lines, and now can help the old heralds do the same and find a new place and purpose, as he did in this book.

[@Axartsme]

"Only" three hours lol, almost expected longer

[@17thShard]

No no no, we can't do longer than three hours. It's so much production work, especially for weekly things. -Eric

[@MajorReynolds92]

one thing i'm a bit upset we didn't get a resolution on in this book was Ishar's twisted Spren experiments in RoW, feel like that was a big thing that got set up and it seems like it didn't get even remotely addressed other than seeing the Cave of Nailed Spren and learning the Voice in Szeth's childhood was Ishar himself

[@17thShard]

100% agreed. -Eric

[@alphaomega5673]

I mean it was technically revealed that he was trying to make a physical spren army, although my personal theory is that it will be realvant in space age cosmere and Brandon wanted us to have the concept of a being that mainly manifests in one realm being dragged into another

[@karloswald407]

Two and a half minutes and Grace is already breaking it down with such godly insight! Or Heraldic insight?

[@Buphido]

I‘ve seen a theory float around that Syl might also turn into a Bondsmith spren, which might give Kal access to Tension. Feels like a stretch (heh) but who knows?

[@Sheija]

If Syl is the ‘Stormother’ now, I wonder if Kaladin is sort of a Bondsmith - and if he’ll be able to charge Radiants with Stormlight. That would fit with a more leadership role, and with the sailors on the infinite see bring Light back. I think this is where the Broken One death rattle comes in. To me it is Syl, since Honor is literally broken and that Shard is part of Retribution, but with a good chunk of its power is sealed off by the Oathpact. The power is literally BROKEN. So this either means it applies to Retribution now, or that the part of Honor that was sealed off is now reigning (post Stormlight 10). So maybe they retake Roshar without reforging the Shard, and Retribution is still out there in the Cosmere? Then Syl could be ‘reigning’ (raining 😉) as Stormother, the Remnant of Stormfather in the same way he was of Tanavast - making her the Broken One.

[@deanexikanas1988]

I think the metal of Braize was created by Adolnaisum and is the same core that's in Canticle. It could be similar to Raysium, but I think it was around long before Odiums god metal was a thing

[@ramspencer5492]

Kal becoming a herald is foreshadowed at the end of the Fleet story in WoR.... The clues are there anyway

[@ramspencer5492]

I would not have felt good for him to become a herald, If they still just got tortured in Braze most of the time! That was my objection when I thought about that possibility earlier as a conclusion for him.....

[@Depressugar]

1:33:44 In page 1355 of the spanish version (the one I read, idk if it's different in the english one), the voices tell Szeth to get a better life. I think the obvious way this can be undertood is him leaving behind his traumas, but my gut tells me there's something more on that. Szeth calls the voices shadows in some ocasions, and the Night is described as such in some occasions. Furthermore, Truth and Shadows have been shown to have some sort of relationship, as shown by Shallan on Oathbringer when she fought Re-Shephir. And given how much importance the Knights of Wind (An old god) and Truth are given in the epigraphs, and how Truth is related to Shadows which is in turn related to Night... I feel there's a deeper meaning in there, and we will find out about Night via Szeth

[@wanderingshade8383]

Oh that's an interesting train of thought! Yeah, we've seen the Wind and Stone, but it would be strange if we hadn't seen the Night. But if we have seen the Night and just didn't know it at the time, just like with the Wind...

[@moncala7787]

I think the Sibling and Navani are in stasis for the sake of Navani not ending up too old to be a participant in the back half. Aging 10 to 15 Rosharan years could easily take her out of combat ready shape. Beyond that it gives new characters some space to figure things out for themselves without a Bondsmith. She can come out of her coma partway through the back half to guide the Tower.

[@claytyree5610]

I think Braize's core's properties are pre shattering and when Rayse became apart of the Rosharan system his god metal... used it as a template/mimiced it

[@solitaryrecluse7740]

I had the idea that the next return will happen when the Fused attempt to destroy the Heralds' souls on Braise.

[@connor_phillipz5689]

I'm sure this will be a totally straightforward and not confusing at all episode. lmao

[@Sheija]

If Retribution gave the singers forms of power Connected to him would it still change their Identity somehow? if so, it sounds like the Oathpact is protecting more than just the spren. Which is a nice flip, since the original Oathpact served the humans - allied with the spren - against the singers. And then Honor and the humans stole the singers Identity by hiding a piece of Odium (BAM), so the remnants of Honor protecting the singers minds by hiding the last piece is quite poetic.

[@omniboy-prime]

I think the numbers of the highspren come from the lost people in ashyn due to the surge of division. Is the one skybreakers use and the representation of the spren is tear in the sky

[@towinandsave1520]

32:59 I think in the next books they will travel to Origin of the storms and restart Hightsorms by using connection or something else

[@Kaladinstormblessedbridge49888]

Two Heralds to persist after SA10, Kaladin and Taln, because Taln is not done. Never done! 💪

[@joshwhite8862]

I'm curious if/how Vorinism will rename Kaladin for his 'elin title of symmetry-ishness. I agree with David though that second chances is just another name they grab, i would anticipate Stormblessed continues (amongst who knows how many others). All of this presuming anyone is around when he comes back, and that the world continues long enough for legends to grow haha. Also interested in how the radiant before herald side of things will work, if any different, with our closest similarity being Nale. To have a 5th ideal and then gain honor blade after, will that change anything of his windrunner stuff. Interesting to wonder.

[@wanderingshade8383]

Heralds are still using pure Honor's power because Allomancers are still using pure Preservation's power. It's a backdoor into Honor within Retribution and just as Harmony (probably?) can't cut off an Allomancer's abilities, Retribution can't cut off the flow of Stormlight into the Heralds.

[@randallwilson1971]

Haven’t finished listening yet, looking forward to Ian vs Evgeni!

[@insertname5371]

imagine years of small talk between the heralds.

[@boppy9617]

34:50 I want to know what peoples predictions are for when the radiants will get access to portable stormlight again. I cant see it being later than the end of book 7.

[@Kaladinstormblessedbridge49888]

I hope Elantris 2 and 3 keep the cover style in the same vein as the first one. Wonder who the artist was and if they're still around 🤔

[@mahanarena5568]

Tanavast say's that surge binding is the power of Dawnshard or at least very similar to it. We also ge t the reveal Hoid's Dawnshard's Intent being Exist and so far we haven't seen any surges like that. So I was thinking maybe there are other Surges that have not been used or given to humanity yet.

[@Haxerous]

The surges are like fundamental forces and so are the dawnshards (but on a more deeper level) that's what Tanavast meant by it.

[@wanderingshade8383]

So, I had assumed the Herald's weird powers were close cousins to the Tzai stuff in Dragonsteel Prime... Spiritual Ideal of a Sword Strike and enhancing your Cognitive Aspect to reinforce your Physical Aspect stuff.

[@tanna_k]

1:01:14 Wouldn't that have made them like Aux? Most of him got absorbed in a very similar way

[@jarrodwakefield4992]

...I like the herald of second chances thing tho... 14:29

[@darknstormyknights]

moar 17th shard moar!

[@evelynbasham1673]

So I was thinking I would send in that character for WTCC and because I was thinking of that character I got it on clue 4. So It fun that I figured it out when you all didn't, but I will have to think of another character now. 😅

[@ramspencer5492]

It's got nightblood (after two clues) .... What's writing with you guys!

[@Alabaster_Kett]

@14:30 I really feel like the purpose of the Heralds in the back half is going to be much more of a guide/prophet/teacher than an OP warrior from the way it was being set up in WaT. They feel like they're likely to be analogous to the Disciples in the bible, or some such. Spreading the word around about liberation and anti-Retribution stuff. They will likely only defend themselves when attacked, at first anyway. I want the Heralds to help fix the Human/Singer divide. It seems like theres a lot of hints that thats where the story is going and I dont want the Heralds to be some weird pro-humanity force.

[@miandagny]

Hey i actually got the whose that cosmere character for once, and got it on clue 3

[@blanketslol]

I don't necessarily think the herald scene was soft magic, Ishar just formed a strong enough connection for it to happen, definitely still follows all the rules of the system.

[@xintrosi6829]

I think the "soft" part is that Connection and uts effects can sometimes be ill-defined.

[@TroverLink]

So Battar is 100% going to betray them all in the second half right?

[@ForgetableOne]

My theory is that she's gonna try then Kaladin's gonna hit her with the one two Second Chance and earn her loyalty

[@latentessence]

I am calling it now guys thank me in a decade. Syl is going to absorb the rest of honor and Kaladin is going to take her

[@zendarva]

"i've sworn an oath to swear no oaths" (I really did, i made a new years resolution to make no new years resolutions, when i turned 18)

[@17thShard]

And did you keep to that oath? -Eric

[@sandrar4981]

I'm sorry for the "casual" listeners who don't get the inside jokes 😂

[@jaysemitchells497]

Some mistings vs people with plate and blade is a fair fight, a Radiant of the 4th ideal isn't even a fight

[@benarkos539]

It depends on what misting. Cause a soother, isn't going to do much against a Shardbearer

[@Sjaddix]

Yeah Taln would spank the Lord Ruler. The Strongest for Sure.

[@godminnette2]

Been saying this since the scene happened, Herald of Rebirth should be Kaladin's title; or perhaps Herald of Renewal or Reformation. I'm not a fan of Redemption: not everyone he helps needs *redeemed,* like he didn't need to be redeemed himself. But he helps people change for the better in dramatic ways, including those who have failed before. I mean, when he swore the Fifth, he literally walked through the past versions of himself. Second Chances might fit the concept slightly better, but it's too cheesy, plus many of the Heralds are on their third or greater chance by now.

[@Sheija]

I agree, I was feeling ‘Herald of Return’ (as in return to self, as that’s what good therapy brings imo). It also fits with him leading the Heralds now in the last Return and his general main character vibe. Plus, epic returns are kind of his thing (chasms, Narak, Hearthstone, Urithuru etc.). He always comes back. He always survives - and it captures the second chance aspect too. Rebirth does sound cooler though and is more or less the same.

[@Buphido]

I don’t think the Heralds are inherently THAT highly invested. Or, at least, they wouldn’t be if not for immortality. They don’t themselves hold the investiture they use for surgebinding after all, rather than funneling it from Honor whenever needed. Only once immortality comes into play do they start receiving a constant flow of investiture from Honor.

[@boppy9617]

i really dont get the deal with child of tanavast. its figurative... kaladin is honorable, he is bonding the grandaughter of honor, it makes sense

[@ramspencer5492]

I don't think the stormfather is really dead... I think that's a fake out. The thing that caused the Spren to become dead eyes ended.... Perhaps much of the power of the storm is gone... But I don't think the stormfather is actually dead

[@ramspencer5492]

Character game....After two clues... I'm going to say: Nightblood

[@julien.777]

which oathpact tho? ;)

[@17thShard]

Hah! The title was certainly designed to be vague so people didn't complain about spoilers. Kind of both but mostly the new one. -Eric

[@julien.777]

@@17thShard ye ye, same as with the Contest of Champions episode, love the effort you're putting into making sure no one gets spoiled! also all of the quotes from WaT and the other books were really nice to put things into context on the note of you bringing up that the afterlife is kinda weird/different on roshar, could that be related to Dalinar soul "already being spoken for"? Maybe he's not in the beyond? The Tranquiline Halls are real?? :D

[@madisonshaw5216]

storm mistress

[@maklov11]

What a relief, this panel lineup actually likes the characters they're talking about.

[@17thShard]

Look, I know the negativity of Reacts 2 isn't for everyone, but it is kind of ridiculous to imply that, let's say I love a character and a later book made me infuriated by them, that I should just shut up and not mention it on the show. That's unreasonable. That's what happened there. Let's maybe allow for this and accept that these things are subjective. I think you'll find generally the topic episodes more up your alley, yes. But it is totally fair for people on reactions episodes to not like a thing! -Eric

[@maklov11]

@@17thShard That's not what happened, it was the weirdest most-entitled nitpicking I could have possibly imagined. And the complaints were about characters acting in accordance with their previously-established personalities instead of the personalized trajectories the panelists expected. Obviously I take full responsibility for being open enough that day that I pushed through and listened to 90% of it. That's on me. I know you have to defend your staff/volunteers, but put a ranked-choice poll for all of your panelists and I know who's at the bottom. Ta ta.

[@17thShard]

Look, man, I loved the book. But some people didn't. And I've received a lot of comments such as, "Wow, this really gave words to some of the issues I had." Or, "Wow, this was so mild, what are people complaining about?" More than you'd expect! So, I think it would probably be best to realize that opinions are subjective. I do think it's okay for you to be annoyed with the episode, but you're stating this as this is objective fact, when it just is not. Cool, you felt differently, but others disagree with you! I don't think it's right to belittle people for that. I think it makes you a jerk. I loved the book, and I can hold in one hand that fact while also listening to critique on the other. I personally found it very entertaining, but I recognize I do quite like listening to negative rants sometimes. I'm sorry that's not for you, and I think that's fair. I can accept there are some tonal things that didn't translate where people felt it was incredibly mean-spirited, when I just didn't in watching the premiere. Just be nice, dude, these are actual people here. The fictional characters aren't; they'll be fine. -Eric

[@maklov11]

@@17thShard Should go without saying, but I'm thankful for what you make and maintain. The Coppermind is a wonder. If I've listened to nearly every lore-based episode (missed stuff like ship it), I've heard plenty of well-substantiated (yet subjective) negative rants on the pod that I disagreed with. It's not as base as you're making it out to be, but I'll agree with you that I'm being liberal with my opinions and pointed words. I am absolutely CRANKED for the realmatics episode(s) and related mechanics.

[@17thShard]

I'm glad! Yeah, I'd just say, opinions on characters can be pretty divergent. I don't think people misunderstood characters, they just felt differently about the same text you read. Let's just be nice and constructive! -Eric

[@ethanbrinkman3401]

I'm calling it here: syl will be honor at end of book 10

[@chewingourtonguesoff]

I heard Argent say "boats and hoes" and i was very confused