The Old World Review - Warhammer Weekly 01102024

Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! This week, we return to the World that Was and we are reviewing The Old World! We've gotta go back in time and get something new. Is the Old World worth the Hype? Is it just the dead Fantasy Battles with a new coat of paint? Do we have something really interesting and fun here? Tune in and find out!
#warhammer #theoldworld
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0:00 News
13:30 Pick of the Week
19:30 Hobby Time
27:00 The Old World
58:45 Things to Love
1:20:30 Things to Hate
1:45:30 TBD
2:02:00 Strategy Phase
2:11:00 Movement Phase
2:20:15 Shooting Phase
2:31:30 Combat
2:42:30 Thoughts on Armies

[@Isrephael1]

I am sooo very thankful that you're doing Old World content, and love the excitement and positivity! I hope we'll see a LOT of Old World stuff on here moving forward. I couldn't be more excited to dive in.

[@paulietuttle3880]

Started to watch warhammer weekly when it was all Fantasy Warhammer Battle and have been loving every minute of content ever since... well we did it! We came full circle. The straight line forward became a circle! We are at that point where storytelling left math in the dirt. Beautiful!

[@Ethnarches]

Vince has been at it with this show since 8th ed? That's dedication!

[@mathewselig53]

​@@EthnarchesWarhammer Weekly actually started with Long Island Wargaming way back.

[@Ethnarches]

@@mathewselig53 Nice, thank you for the information.

[@nallsycody8505]

Hey,nice to see a review on the old world,the rule set looks solid..as solid as a rule set can be on release! I hope it sticks around this time & gains popularity enough to encourage Gw to continue support for it! Aos & the old world should be able to sit side by side & be enjoyed by all!Have a great day!

[@davidfortin6437]

Personally, as a competitive AoS player and a pretty hardcore painter hobbyist, I don't understand who this game is for, and I don't really see it "gaining popularity" while other simpler games are around. The rules are incredibly complex for a new player, so I would tend to stick to games I already know, or games that are simple to grasp first and get my hooked. And the models are old AF. They just repackage terrible models so from a hobby perspective, again, the other systems are more appealing. I don't understand how this market can grow. It feels like a very niche product.

[@Gage_Welch]

I appreciate the level of detail you put into your overviews / examinations / analyses. You see the effort other content creators put into their analysis & dive one step deeper

[@envaya9838]

agreed, he read the whole encyclopedia and even played a game, that is some dedication! And the quality of the analysis is just chef's kiss

[@felixelbe7298]

Thanks for bringing up the Old World! Great to see, that there are a lot of people with love for both fantasy settings!

[@VinceVenturella]

You bet!

[@wolfgangkuwaldt9464]

I am both very amazed and absolutely surprised to see this video, didn't expect this. Thank you very much. 😊

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad you liked it!

[@Juicyjim57]

This actually hyped me for this game more than anything I've seen so far. The enthusiasm coupled with the realistic pros and cons. I'm still unlikely to play because being an adult sucks and it's hard enough trying to get in games of AoS. But hey, it was still fun!

[@melchoriuz8116]

Wow again one of the best vids out there with pros and cons. One thing I thought you brought up or maybe you brought but I missed is the hobby aspect for new players. I think it is not only the 250 page of rules it is even that you needs to be experienced in the hobby aspect as well or be willing to work through these aspects like working with resin, or metallic and use different tools, glue and so on. And even the old sprues with the big amount of mould lines or multipose kit - to plan your regiment. Maybe it is stuff for another content but I think there should be new players be aware of it.

[@WillOMyers]

What a wonderful trip down memory lane. Great show, great hosts. I’ll be watching this a few times

[@cyriltournier]

As someone who started with WFB 5th edition as a 12 years old with no one to hold my hand, it was fine. WFB's complexity was way lower than AOS. You didn't have to worry about Grand Strategies, Battletactics or area control. Most scenarios were "kill the opposing army" with some kind of variation on deployment. The main problem was that the rules were very badly written. Nothing was self-contained. Half the rules weren't referenced in the index. You did spend more time looking for an obscure rule than actually playing. I trust that modern rule-writing will make the experience way better.

[@danielschreiber4710]

Henceforth I shall be referring to the derpy bone dragon as the Dead Saurian. 😁

[@jolamber]

Man I love hearing y'all had so much fun playing!

[@jonathanalston1552]

What a joyful thing to wake up to, thanks Warhammer Weekly!!!! 🎉

[@VinceVenturella]

Our pleasure!

[@jonathanalston1552]

​@VinceVenturella your episode kept me entertained for four commutes, two evenings of kitchen tidying up and making one cup of tea 😂

[@Ethnarches]

Great to be able to listen to Vince again! I have zero interest in AOS and I'm grinding my multi year Tomb Kings army painting project so no interest to change painting styles currently so I haven’t watched many painting videos for a while. Hopefully you’ll continue to cover the Old World, I always appreciate Vince's thoughtful comments on games and now he's talking about my game. Good guests / co-hosts too! The one thing I disagree with Vince is that it isn't silly at all for not medieval France to be battling not ancient Egypt, there was fighting in Egypt during the crusades and the Ottoman's invaded Europe plenty of times so the distances are totally playsible for a setting based on that period. Or is the funny element that it's ancient Egypt and medieval France battling? Maybe I'm just missing it. :) Anyway, great show and hopefully you’ll give me reason to tune in more with coverage of my one true wargaming love! :) (I'm one of those super enthusiasts with armies made of models from a specific period, my Tomb Kings are pure 6th ed models, Vampire Counts pure 5th ed models, Dwarf a mix of 3rd to early 6th etc)

[@VinceVenturella]

Just funny to me that it’s a blatant knock off of history with funny names written in like a madlibs. The world holds little appeal to me conceptually, but I like many of the details and the characters and that is what matters, derivative stories can still be good stories and games.

[@Ethnarches]

@@VinceVenturella Thank you for the clarification Vince! Very interesting how taste can differ so much, I absolutely adore the mixing of historical and fantastical elements as well as the grounded realism with silly magic stuff, to me that's the absolute essence of Warhammer Fantasy and what makes it so good. It makes it feel believable and meaningful to me. Something like AOS feels silly to me as it’s not grounded in anything concrete in the same way, so pretty much the opposite reaction to yours.

[@VinceVenturella]

@@Ethnarches and that is really why I love fantasy, it's a big tent and both of those things can exist and that is awesome!

[@Ethnarches]

@@VinceVenturella Indeed. :)

[@patrickdhamilton]

Your comments on the new Magic system, and the fact that this is what happened to 40k’s psychic phase, I’d be shocked if AoS didn’t also adopt this type of magic system. Also… did I hear a “The Good Place” reference?😊

[@DemandredTaim]

Haven't finished yet, but where was the good place reference?

[@patrickdhamilton]

@@DemandredTaim When Vince is talking about the glut of choices he said “I’m sorry Chidi.”

[@ohyeaah111]

Great podcast, best of all year

[@Malisteen]

regarding legacy factions, if the game sees rules updates like aos or 40k, with quarterly balance updates & points changes and new editions that hevily rewrite the core rules every few years, then legacy factions will be quickly left behind, and I doubt the community will be ably to keep up with unofficial updates, there just won't be time enough for them to get adopted before they'll be outdated again. BUT I don't expect 40k or aos style rules support. Everything from the old models to the big bundle faction books to me screams 'middle earth', and when was the last time we saw a balance update to middle earth? or a new core book that actually changed anything rather than just incorporating existing errata? If that's the style of rules support gw is aiming for with tow then the legacy factiob pdf will be effectively current rules for a long time, easily long enough for the community to vet and adopt homebrew arcane journals even. As for tournament legality, imo that's not going to be up to GW. There are, what, three factions with gw models currently available if you don't count legacy factions? Can't really run a meaningful tournament with that. By the time GW can host official events with gw model requirements and no legacy factions the indie scene will be well established, and indie organizers seem to be voicing full support for legacy factions so far.

[@chitzkoi]

Re the mental load / special rules discussion early on - as someone who never stopped playing square base fantasy, I do think starting with the only Undead faction as one of the two is not ideal for proper newbies. TKs are an army apart that function according to a different set of structures entirely, and if you were properly starting from scratch, undead would be an expansion-like module you'd add on the side. We can all see why they launched with TKs and that their target market is people who will do the work, but it's a noteworthy roadblock. When I'm teaching new players this game, I'll be running Brets vs. Greenskins.

[@Stonehorn]

I disagree. If you’re starting WHFB, they are one of the easiest armies to learn to play. No psychology is a big deal. Regen saves give you a lot of survivability on top of Armor and Ward saves, and you have an incredibly simple strategy with chariots screened by chariot runners, and backed by archers. Especially with the Arcane Journal chsriot army list. The only army I can think of that is simpler is maybe Dwarfs.

[@chitzkoi]

@Stonehorn whilst I get where you're coming from, if the goal is to learn the whole system, it's best to learn using two factions that work in fundamentally the same way, then expand from that baseline.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, for me less is more, having less to worry about always made it easier, I think as with most learning, it will vary person to person.

[@stephanpodplesky2832]

From what I understand all the confusion about the legacy armies and using old models is TOW is being developed by Citadel, which is a sister company under the GW umbrella. And since AoS already has Skaven, vampires, ogres, and seraphon with a majority of new and updated models GW and Citadel are trying to separate the two games and model ranges so on a "performance sales spreadsheet report" there's no cross sales between the games. They want these 2 games to be separate entities. That's why I believe 4th edition AoS will have 4 grand alliance Indexes. Cleanest and simplest way to separate the intermingled model ranges.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

I think you’re right, but it’s not going to work, I already plan to use my Seraphon for legacy Lizardmen (and buy models specifically for Old World) and flesh out my Empire army with Cities of Sigmar models.

[@Hazebusterz]

Wow! This guy gets it 😊

[@kdhlkjhdlk]

AoS has weird silly factions. Their lizardmen are all dreams or something, the vampires are ghosts or something. I don't know, my eyes glaze over whenever I see the boxes in the store. Couldn't tell them apart.

[@Scarycrow89]

@@kdhlkjhdlk Since the new Seraphon (lizardmen) battletome, the concept that some (half) lizardmen were "daemons of light/order" is gone. You have the Coalesced and The Starborne, and both are lizardmen of flesh and bone, born from spawning pools, but the Starborne are filled with Azyrite energy, so they glow and look a bit etheral (the art makes them look like little godzilla). And I have no idea what you means by "vampires are ghost" ? We have an army of classic vampires, leading with zombies and skeleton and some wolves/werewolves, the Soulblight Gravelords. An army of only Ghost warrior, the Nighhaunts. An army of "bone-golems", with some samurai-like unit, the Ossiarch Bonereapers. And an army of ghoul people, bunch of cannibal who thinks themselves as Bretonnia, led by Ushoran.

[@aerka0s760]

I don't understand how indexes would fix anything regarding to the separation of the two games. It would just be throwing to the bin all the work of AoS and from nowhere basically. They talked about it, to the community, in 40k months in advance, it was mandatory because of the changes of rules and some elements like toughness, strength, and the "less damage" will. They can just legend things in AoS or just kick out in each new V4 battletome the models overlapping in both games.

[@benstaffordson7163]

As a second comment: In relation to why factions are legacy, my genuine belief is that it's based off which factions are in sigmar. Which, if you look at it another way, means we're getting CHORFS in sigmar. You can't stop my copium, they're coming. Any signs I can find... I'll start looking at tea leaves if it's needed

[@TrippyTheShroom]

Hearing the joy you had for your Tomb Kings made me want to play the game far more than any of the marketing GW actually did for this game lol. When/if Kislev get their release, I'll be first to preorder.

[@nathanbuxton3271]

Love the podcast and really happy that TOW is within scope!

[@chihammerfantasybattles8588]

VINCE it will be great to see you at old world events

[@VinceVenturella]

Absolutely! Hope you're doing well brother.

[@steverogers3696]

Hey Vince great video as always, some good points made and really enjoyed it. I would say that from the UK i was playing fantasy here while i was a teen/early 20s and really enjoyed it, but there was no gaming scene for it here for a long time. I would go to the GW shop for thier gaming nights and often would stand about and not get a game weekly. It was hard to get one monthly toward the end. Im happy everyone who is into ToW gets to play the game, either old players or new ones who never tried it out, but for myself i wont be going for it.

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

All Old World all the time! 😀

[@emosdead420]

Thanks for shouting out the Festermere Conflict! Can now add "as mentioned on Warhammer Weekly" to future bylines!

[@scroggie_mini_painting3983]

Cheers guys! Really enjoyed this style for the year review! Look forward to next years lol! The podcasts are great!

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@The_ZerGhoul]

I'm happy for people that are excited for The Old World and I surely would be too if I had played WFB for years in the past and still had my armies. On a 100% selfish note though, having gotten into AOS less than 4 years ago and currently living in a smaller province on Canada where it is very difficult to get any AOS game going and events are small and rare, this release worries me a little bit. I'm saying this because a lot of the few AOS players were also WFB players and are now excited for The Old World so I feel like it may kill off the already small AOS communities (compared to 40k) if you don't live in a more populated area on top of being close to the 4th edition AOS release. It kind of feels like GW will be splitting the player base by having 2 full scale Warhammer fantasy games compete with one another which seems a bit odd. I do totally understand that for people who used to play WFB, it must have been really lame to have it die and be replaced by AOS. I'm not trying to be negative and hating on it, just my 2 cents. Hopefully moving back to a more populated area this summer, there'll be enough people for both communities to keep on striving.

[@sycho331]

Thanks for the excellent deep dive! Great to see Brendan - looking forward to another game one day!

[@Wijkert]

Greatly enjoyed this one. Very happy to listen to more Old World content.

[@VinceVenturella]

More to come!

[@piesandhiking4943]

I appreciated this show and I hope you do more Old World content in the future.

[@Malisteen]

never bern much for allies, but I like the idea of a homebrew 'Undead Legion' style Army of Infamy for Arkhan the Black with Vamp Count allies.

[@ghostmutton]

I'm happy Warhammer Fantasy fans are finally getting what they wanted all these years. Though I've said it before and I'll say it again--you want a good rank-and-flank fantasy game with way better models and lore from a consumer-friendly company, just play Conquest.

[@cfeduke]

Fantastic co-hosts, great Warhammer Weekly! Looking forward to more Old World episodes in the future.

[@VinceVenturella]

More to come!

[@HarmopdenAkker]

The 25% Allies rule may be easily abused for cheese, but it's also a nice way to slowly ease into a second army - or just allowing people to paint something different while still getting it on the table.

[@shitstormbringer]

I wasn't sold on what first Felt like a microwaved release, but after this show I think I'm gonna give it a try

[@S3lph131]

Been waiting on this for a very long time.. didnt get fantasy in my teens.. just 40k.. always regretted it.. I can now relive my teens.. final fantasy vii remake.. plastic sisters.. resident evil 2 remake.. and now Bretonnians.. full circle people ❤❤

[@christophertaylor3770]

glad to see you discussing old world it looks so fun

[@Hazebusterz]

It looks like shit on a stick

[@erikbrandsnes9569]

Love the channel regardless of what gamesystem🥳🥳🥳

[@starslayer2438]

I have no interest in playing The Old World myself, but.... - I am glad that it exists (to make that group of Warhammer fans happy) - I hope that it is successful (so that all armies get their opportunity to shine and so that GW learns that taking risks to follow fan demand can pay off) - and I am actually interested in hearing about it occasionally. As for universal special rules, I really like them when a game uses them well and restricts itself to like 10-30 of them. If I remember correctly, Epic 40.000, Epic Armageddon and now 10th edition of Warhammer 40k have used them well and have hit the right spot. A game with 70+ of them on the other hand? Not so much.

[@jolamber]

Yes so hyped for this podcast!!

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

An added item for Things to Hate: The GW PreOrder/Launch Process I'd be more enthusiastic for TOW if I had place in line, with my money gone, but an order grail knights and Warsphinx to arrive in six months time, than waiting with nothing promised to me and a restock of the models in three months time.

[@Rhaenday]

Now I want to see a unit of Tomb Guard carrying a chariot around xD

[@grungivaldigurnisson5115]

Model it after those dancers carrying the casket from the meme

[@DS_painting]

Great review show and loved to see your new enthusiasm for the Old World! In the last few weeks you seems very negative about the published rule snippets, but I'm glad you changed your mind after seeing the full rule set and getting a game in. And as you mentioned, it's just a win for everybody to now have two fantasy games by GW, which are different enough for everyone's taste. Age of Sigmar for the high fantasy with much more creative freedom and the more grounded classic setting of TOW. Plus it'll give everybody more options to kitbash the models between these two games (e.g. converting the new knights on foot as Soulblight Graveguard)

[@TLKKLUB]

1:21:00 I am sure Wahapedia will make it right. Just give them time, two-three months. 1:32:00 Just like aoshelper, there will be a towhelper cheatsheets for every army.

[@DwightOfTheDead]

I was on the fence about Old World but this was helpful. Think I’m going to pick up the Orc box when it drops. Thanks for the review. Cheers.

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad I could help!

[@Nubgan]

As a man that does Technical Authoring for a living, there uindexes make me very sad (if they even put one in at all). They are one of the most worthwhile things you can put in a book like that, how hard could it be to put all the sub headings and keywords in an index, I could get that done for the entire book in a day D: Episode summary comments: Yay old world, I just love there fantasy settings, so I am here for AoS still and Old World :D

[@njabruzzo]

Glad to see you enjoyed TOW - and hopeful you produce more videos on the new game!

[@VinceVenturella]

We will!

[@njabruzzo]

@@VinceVenturella and I haven’t played a war game in decades but diving in where newbies fear to tread!

[@lorgor4eva]

Thanks for the review. I'm one of the poor guys. I like all the main games so win-win for me. My local group is starting a slow growth back into Old World. Im doing wood elves again. Unfortunately, there is no wood elf army anymore, but I've got the chance to rectify that. Building the tree spirits side 1st until i can buy an actual wood elf. Bought the books & and map, so I'm very much looking forward to playing some fantasy again, having started since the 4th edition.

[@TerrierHalo]

My first game of Warhammer Fantasy was somewhere around the time when the Sabbat flexidisc "Blood for the Blood God" came with an issue of White Dwarf, and someone in a zebra-striped mohawk was on the cover. I might have been a bit too young to play it then, but that's the last time I played it and this does not seem to be the edition to lure me back. I mostly remember my friend's older brother had sculpted a volcano in the middle of the battle field and that was pretty cool. ;)

[@cfeduke]

Happy to hear Adam is still killing it hobby-wise out there in flyover land... and surprised to hear he's hit his mid-life growth spurt! :)

[@noctilithe1008]

Great video ! Could you share the name of the modular movement trays you mentioned ?

[@VinceVenturella]

Minimag Trays.

[@EmpireFanatic]

Nice, you got one thing wrong though. Cant remember if fall back in good order or give ground, but in one of those cases, not restraining doesnt give you a charge. The combat simply gets pushed back essentially (geographically).

[@NIcolasbobbitt]

9:11 gonna be there they always have great ones for LVO.

[@DisasterP1an]

Thanks for the review. Helped me realize this isn’t the game for me. But to echo Heywoah, it’s not for me but I hope the Old World community gets what they want.

[@aaronsomerville2124]

I am very excited for Old World. I never got to play it back in the day. I really like fantasy as a genre and I *love* the AoS models. My enjoyment of those models is basically proportional to my utter dislike for the "Mortal Realms" setting... I'm sorry but to me (subjective opinion) it's hot garbage as a setting. I vastly prefer the Old World as a setting... it's something I actively want to hear about and learn about. Whereas (again, to me personally) the lore of AoS is so insipid that I'd rather just not hear it... it's a waste of neurons. Hopefully both games will thrive because both have their fans.

[@VinceVenturella]

Both games thriving is something no one of good nature should be against. :)

[@patgray5402]

At last my Empire can take a Maneater mercenary again!

[@Rhaenday]

Question: If you have broader ranks than me, so you get models not touching in close combat that only get 1 attack each - but I kill 3-4 models before you get to strike and models behind "step up" - is it stated that models in base contact are removed first?

[@VinceVenturella]

Nope, you could have the non base to base models removed.

[@tommyakesson8858]

38:00 Those old beards were real heroes!

[@falconpunch8734]

It's nice to see some positivity in the comments amongst the old world community. I won't play the game because I love aos and struggle to remember multiple game systems, but I'm happy that people are pleased. Maybe a little ignorant of me, but I've always seen the WFB community as toxic and been frustrated at their treatment of aos players, viewing them all as disrespectful to aos. But many people in these comments seem like very positive people and it's nice to be wrong about these things. Enjoy the new rules guys and gals, I look forward to seeing your square bases on the battlefield, as I get decimated playing my Stormcast on the adjacent table 😂

[@foxtrot2824]

Great informative video, thanks Vince and crew! While this game is definitely not for me, I hope it does well and gets a long, well supported life for all those folks who love it!

[@Moah333]

What's the alternative to citadel trays that get briefly mentioned? I didn't write it down and can't find it again

[@VinceVenturella]

Minimag trays

[@nallsycody8505]

Vince,try using the zombie dragon head from vampire counts for your dragon,that’s what I’ll be doing!

[@meledward231]

You made a reference to a specific movement tray in the video regarding formation changes. What exactly was it called? Great video as always

[@VinceVenturella]

Minimag Trays

[@meledward231]

You might want to look at shogun miniatures bases and trays. They are what i use and look to be similar, made in the usa. I have been using them For my warmaster armies to brigade my units.

[@Kallistosprom]

In an age of board game rulebooks getting better and better, including heavy euros, you’d think GW would learn to write a decent one including index.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

I just don’t think the Old World rule set is that much of a hill to climb. Maybe I don’t remember that bad as well as do the good, but... I picked up WHF in 6th with my three kids (10, 12, and 15). Even the 10 year old was able to learn the game, WELL. Yes, I played some pretty rules complex board war games from SPI and Avalon Hill. And, yes, I helped the kids learn WHF. But they were, if anything, more able to remember the rules, than me.

[@rickohanlon3370]

Very interesting review there, excellent work! Quick question, weren't GW working on a Kislev faction for Old World? Seem to remember something from a Warcom article. Or am getting mixed up with a Total War update🤔?

[@VinceVenturella]

You're correct, originally, it was a big part of the marketing, then it went away.

[@rickohanlon3370]

@@VinceVenturella ahh, I see. Shame, that would have been neat to see that.

[@user-ho6ub1xz1e]

It is such a relief to hear from people who like both AoS and WFB. The down side of this revival of WFB is that it has exposed the extent of tribalism in the GW fan base. I think this is something that will have to be actively discouraged going forward.

[@stevekearns6173]

Great show dude! I love all the warhammers and still don't understand the negative silly billies.

[@TheMrSlize]

I think the spears Step Up does not need FAQ, i mean it sounds reasonable and give spears some adantage, allows you to have more chance to hit back so thats great.

[@VinceVenturella]

See it’s funny, I thought the exact opposite as the simple obvious solution. That’s where we need an FAQ. ;)

[@ProrokLebioda]

I really like some of the rules, especially combat resolution rules, but I know we can't port them to AoS. Imagine horror of falling back ('member Stoneguard push?). I like more impactful Bravery!

[@darnokx9277]

The LVO preview is on the 18./19., and the TOW release event is on the 20. - so that might be the reason for no TOW at LVO. I hope for some roadmap announcement on the 20. to be honest.

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

So glad to hear TKs are fun to play! Are they reasonably strong too? Seem to remember they were almost always cursed to be a fairly weak book back in the day.

[@VinceVenturella]

Too early to say, but I enjoyed how they played.

[@DemandredTaim]

USRs just need good app support. If all information is internally indexed and a click can instantly take you to the relevant info no matter how many steps are referenced I won't mind as much

[@Gage_Welch]

Mercenaries / allies are interesting because you can buy a couple kits from different armies and slowly build them up over time. It's a terrible idea because theory crafters are going to be using that to doomstack anything their army is lacking & can generally give bad vibes / game-rigging behaviours.

[@AnvilOfDoom]

Good points. Personally I love it for friendly games. And an easy fix for competitive games is to disallow them in that context.

[@darkfuture3291]

Do you put this out anywhere as a podcast? I love the show but could get the whole full 4 hours more easily if I could listen whilst I run and commute. Thanks.

[@VinceVenturella]

I don't, youtube only sadly.

[@darnokx9277]

For Vince and his dragon hatred: use the skeleton head from the Zombie Dragon? It should work, right?

[@VinceVenturella]

That's what I am thinking yes.

[@goatman9998]

Necrosphinx death mask on it?​@@VinceVenturella

[@harrybrass734]

just an fyi that the Stength Hammer link in yoe description is broken

[@GypsyDaenger]

I started with HH, I still find it easier to wrap my head around all the rules than anything 40k or AOS has thrown at me. Although the books are terribly written in a way to make it a challenge at first.

[@seanocd]

Totally agree. Vince's opinion about complexity in ToW vs AoS is one of extraordinarily rare takes of his that I am diametrically opposed to. Complexity should come from the base rules, that everyone shares. Not from specific army books and warscrolls/data slates. At least that way I can learn the base rules, and have a good understanding of what I'm facing rather than needing to memorise dozens of books, each with dozens of units that each have their own unique special rules. Faction rules, subfaction rules, faction battletactics/stratagems, faction items and spell laws, rotating GHBs/warzones(or whatever they call them), endless spells, etc, etc. It's fairly whatever for friendly, casual games, but I passionately hate it in competitive games where knowing your opponents rules can be absolutely vital for playing an enjoyable game. I truly don't understand how anyone holds the opinion that Vince does.

[@kazoden4225]

I think "not being new player friendly" is a curse that the old world carried from 8th. Honestly I think that's the worst trait a game can have, and I'd be surprised to see it have any longevity.

[@VinceVenturella]

Time will tell for sure.

[@NMahon]

Tbh I'll probably end up playing a simplified version with my friends

[@furiyen4890]

I'm here for the TOW Content :D

[@dmeep]

Not interested in old world but ill pick up some tomb king models for a dnd campaign once they are back in stock

[@Darwingreen5]

1:08:00 Don't give them too much credit for that. I think they stopped doing stuff like that because the rise of 3rd party bits sellers like Chapterhouse Studios.

[@grungivaldigurnisson5115]

Not to be an asshole but how in the blood soaked hells did people think TOW was a reskin of 8th??? Every community article was about how different it was. Magic in every phase, marching columns, how combat results worked. As for Warhammer daily, pretty sure Rob did that during "lockdown".

[@VinceVenturella]

Many people don’t tune into all the details, hence the misapprehension.

[@Nick_Larking]

Im glad with the LoS changes compared to true los from 7th and 8th. BUt doubt ill end up playing again, when they nuked fantasy everyone quit playing.

[@photonfartsqueeze6694]

I’m intrigued, but I don’t like either of the starter factions and no longer have stuff. If they release a wood elf or empire box I may change my mind.

[@davidwasilewski]

In this world, the goats can win! Looks sideways at a big pile of square bases….

[@OgreOnSprue]

Are you going to do a New March of the Tomb Kings?

[@VinceVenturella]

You may not have to wait too long.

[@AVS_uk]

A different kind of Wednesday

[@matt9591]

Its still so goofy and petty what they are doing with legacy factions. Just release a vampire counts book? Its printing money

[@U_N_C_L_E_Mike]

Is it just me or did they use an image of Taylor Swift for the high elves cover 2:55:56

[@FootofPork]

Wait what? Dwellers below coming back!?!?

[@valheffelfinger6521]

Eh yo Vince - you shut down Chuck on the complexity point with your example of tomb guard w 16 usrs.... I'm counting 7. I demand a recount.

[@VinceVenturella]

Hey Val, hope you're doing well sir. You're right, you should count again, let's go through it. 1) Cleaving Blow, 2) Close Order 3) Indomitable 4) Khopesh 5) Nehekaran Undead 6) REgeneration, 7) Regimental Unit. Now if I was silly, I would say that is seven and stop there, but then I would try to actually read those rules and I would realize that Nehekaran Undead is actually 4 more USRs (8 - Fear, 9 - Immune to Psychology, 10 - Unbreakable, 11 - Unstable). Now, we are up to 11, but we aren't done yet my man. I won't talk about how Regimental Unit and Close Order both hold a TON of sub-rules that could easily basically be more USRs, I will simply let them, like Legolas shooting an Olliphaunt, count as 1. However, I also give my Tomb Guard 12) Drilled and 13) Nehekaran Phalanx (as it makes them actually do the role I want them to do) and then of course my models have Halberds, which is 14 (as weapons have their own implementation of USRs, again, I'll count it as one, even though most weapons contain multiple). So there you go brother. The recount is in.

[@valheffelfinger6521]

@@VinceVenturella hah! But you said SIXTEEN ... Clearly hyperbole! 😜

[@hendrikrasmus]

If spearhead truly is AoS CP will: A) stormcast not be part of starter set B)stormcast get multiple C)strter set armies not be supported in the format

[@Stonehorn]

I mean, one would hope that Stormcast just won’t be in a 3rd straight edition set. I don’t think the faction is as successful as they expected Fantasy Marines to be, so it’s possible they don’t use them as the face this time. Especially since Dominion is still sitting on shelves everywhere. People are more interested in the much cooler looking armies, like Soulblight/Cities of Sigmar/Lumineth/etc etc. honestly, Sigmarines might be the most boring army in the game, imo. But maybe I’m completely wrong, and they continue to push them, but all I know is every AOS player I know has Stormcast models from old boxes, and not a single one of them is interested in painting or playing them.

[@derekgehring2771]

Spearhead may well be AoS CP, but this likely little more than a way to repackage stock for multiple items that aren't moving. Asking or thinking Stormcast won't in the starter is like thinking Space Marines won't be in a new 40k starter. Straight delusional.

[@Stonehorn]

@@derekgehring2771 you only had to post it once. And if Sigmarines aren’t selling, it’s absolutely possible they won’t be in the box. It’s clear they don’t want a repeat of Dominion, which you can find anywhere, usually for half price. Marine boxes sell out, thats why they use them in these boxes. If space marines didn’t sell more than every other line, they would use a different army. Im not trying to be an ass, they just honestly don’t sell. Again, everyone I know who plays AOS has Sigmarines they got in boxes, and not a single person likes them or wants to play them. They are the least popular line, where space marines are the most popular line they have ever made. A CoS vs SBG box would sell out immediately. Stormcast vs will once again sit on shelves for the whole edition.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, C would be my guess.

[@MrZippidydoodahh]

Engagement!

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@wigend1626]

Villains were 3rd edition

[@VinceVenturella]

Thank you, it's been too many years!

[@Zaphodox]

So is no one else excited for the idea of home brew lists to run TOW factions in AoS and vice versa? For instance imagine how epic big units of squig lancers would be in an O&G army or brettonian knights based for AoS! The potential conversion and fan-rule crossovers is so exciting to me. Huge new vistas for army ideas, conversions and stories have come into view.

[@morzorkatvfm]

I much prefer the way the armies are structured and set up on the board compared to AoS' carnival of nonsense and spaghetti deployment (gotta screen like your life depends on it).

[@VinceVenturella]

To be fair, there is much less spaghetti these days with coherency rules. :)

[@lorenzopizzocri2397]

Things to hate: -So many much rules, are you serious? Should be a thing to hate?

[@VinceVenturella]

If its complex for complexities sake, it can be yes. It creates a large barrier of entry that will stop many from giving it a shot.