The ONLY 3 Times Darth Vader & Palpatine Fought - Star Wars Explained

[@Santaheckler]

Eventually, Vader DID get the upper hand in ROTJ…caught Sidious by surprise.

[@Omnipulsar]

sidious was intoxicated with stupidity that was screaming for vader to throw him off the shaft

[@sergneo]

Exactly somewhat ..!! However technically I think we should actually say or credit Anakin with that Victory because out of love for Luke fully embraced the Light side again so we may never know if Vader could but “Anakin” did… 🙏🫡🙏

[@SkellyWOG]

Yea bro true!!!

[@madsgrams2069]

Yeah, but he died just from the blowback of a moderate Force lightning flurry (Palpatine was clearly making Luke's death as prolonged as agonizing as possible, so he was holding back considerably). In an actual fair fight, Palaptine could kill Vader instantly.

[@Greg8098]

Just like Sidious caught his own master (Plagueis) by surprise by ending him in his sleep

[@PapaEmeritus_4evr]

Palatine could sense what Vader was thinking. Vader would really have to trick his own mind before he could strike at him. Vader could only throw Palpatine down the shaft when he was very distracted.

[@Darknesss490]

I would argue with that old friend....

[@disturbed157]

Or he could have pretended like he was killing a female jedi and disguised the emotions of killing his master with emotions of killing the girl. I really hate the newest trilogy

[@moi4863]

I don't think sidious was distracted since his force lightning still killed vader. I think sidious likely knew how Vader felt conflicted, but he misjudged & thought Vader wouldn't sacrifice himself in order to stop him

[@PapaEmeritus_4evr]

@@moi4863 His thoughts were distracted and focused on Luke. Palpatine knew that Vader was afraid of him and his force lightning so Vader wasn't on his mind at the time. Vader was killed because Palpatine's Force Lightning was still active. Vader knew that he would die from it ripping through his cybernetics. Vader acted too quickly for Palpatine to react in any way. You could say Palpatine's judgement was clouded with anger. Palpatine underestimated Vader's pull to the light and overestimated his assuredness that his apprentice would always be of the dark side and subservient.

[@rotojakku]

Palpatine was weary and low key feared Vader. With a few modifications, more specifically removing the limitations and vulnerability to force lightning that Palpatine had installed in the suit, and knowing the truth about padme and and knowing about Luke an Leia giving him hope, he could have easily bested Palpatine. Vader must have had a stronger connection with the dark side too, considering sidious was just and evil asshole and vade knew true pain and suffering.

[@dallasblues74]

Exactly! Sidious wouldn’t have engineered a suit with such a weakness if he didn’t genuinely fear Vader.

[@archer5922]

@@dallasblues74 even if he didn’t fear him outright it’s certainly a control method at least as Sidious was basically the only living force user able to use force lightning and so the only one that could exploit the weakness

[@kadbenson7540]

@@MetricSucks are you gonna explain why you disagree? Otherwise this is a pretty useless comment lol

[@B3an01]

@Andrew Hager if by prime you mean full potential then sidious gets dogwalked but the reason he doesnt learn the dark side abilities is because lightning would literally attack himself and he already knows force choke and training with palpatine seems to be pretty rare as we rarely see it happen also the thing about them in their primes if you mean just the power they reached anakin saw palpatine fire his lightning and watched him duel at the end and thinks he can overthrow him signalling he is already stronger than the chancellor at least when not conflicted also sure the darkside makes you stronger but just because sidious knows more about it doesnt mean he automatically wins or has the stat advantage just look at yoda vs palpatine only reason palpatine won was because yoda ran out of time to kill him before backup arrives like a time mission and cause he fell off the senate pod but if we saw the full duel or they had a rematch yoda would have most likely won

[@B3an01]

@Andrew Hager also the thing about padme making him weaker in the darkside is true she keeps him to the light but when she is in danger she can also be the source of great anger for him leading to the dark side

[@luccafalbo2498]

Well there is also that one time when he threw the Emperor down to the reactor.

[@r1r597]

Wonder if Sidious clone has memories of going ‘kaboom’ hehe

[@ahsoka6807]

that was a pretty small part of the story tho

[@simonloliong8075]

No shit

[@Sapphire24-ie5uf]

​​@@ahsoka6807pretty big.

[@b.msabol8551]

There's only a few instances where Vader would win. 1) Palpatine tells Vader he killed Padme directly, 2) Palpatine tells Vader he was manipulated from the start.

[@edgar5983]

I believe that Vader probably thought overtime that he could take the emperor but because of his suit he as well thought that could turn into a suicidal attempt and die with his master shotrly after killing him. Which its exactly what happened in return of the jedi but in that moment Vader didn't care about dying anymore, thinking for those moments in his son safety.

[@craigslaunwhite579]

He lived the emperor so much he let him go. Yeet 🕳🦾

[@thebuildbear]

He could, but he would have to use the element of surprise against Sidious. Vader is slow, electronically vulnerable, but armored and proficient in Form V Shien/Djem-so with variations due to his bulky form, had to mix in form II a bit. The emperor is old but stupid powerful basically a battle master but prefers form VI and VII--Niman and Juyo. An outside chance at best for Vader winning.

[@SuperDababy2]

Vader isn't actually that slow, he looks slow but in combat he's still really fast (or possibly faster than he was before)

[@williejohnson1732]

@@SuperDababy2 so In a light saber battle could Vader bet palpatine if palpatine didn't use force lighting?

[@SuperDababy2]

@@williejohnson1732 depends if Vader was enraged or not, if he was he would possibly still win

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@SuperDababy2 True, Vader used the force as well as the Prosthetic Limbs to move pretty quickly despite his pain, size and restrictions

[@thebuildbear]

@@williejohnson1732 theoretically, yes. With no Force Lightning, Vader has a better chance.

[@DarthVader22659]

I kind of think in the middle between the two schools of thought on how this fight would end. On the one hand, there are those who believe Vader could just beat Palpatine outright, as canon Vader is far stronger than his legends counterpart. This is optimistic to say the least. However, the camp that the majority fall into, the one that Palpatine would beat Vader 11/10 times with no room for debate is also an overgeneralization. I believe that yes, Vader’s general level of power is 80% of Palpatine’s like Lucas said. However, the remaining 20% seems to be mental even more than physical. Vader was cripplingly depressed, and not all of his pain transformed into rage. A good part of it transformed into deep sadness and regret, and Anakin Skywalker was still alive and almost came out several times. If Vader had truly devoted himself to the Dark Side and embraced hatred fully, he could have defeated Palpatine.

[@K.J.Richard]

Of course, Anakin at his full potential (the one we will never see) could have defeated Palpatine and every other Sith lords who came before him, here is the top 12 higher Midichlorians count: Anakin: 27 000 Darth Vitiate: 25 000 Luke/Leia: 23 000 Galen Marek: 22 000 Cade Skywalker: 21 000 Palpatine: 20 000 Yoda: 19 000 Exar Kun: 18 700 Ulic Qel-Droma: 18 500 Mace Windu: 18 000 Darth Revan: 17 900 Darth Bane: 17 800

[@taquito2606]

Beautifully put.

[@vestarakhai5303]

"I have crippling depression" 🤣 I had to

[@merkingsavage6045]

They drive the point home in the canon vader comics that while vader at times thought about what itd be like if he tried to turn back, he always got over it and fully embraced the dark side. Like when he bled his kyber crystal which only works if you have enough darkness in you.

[@kingzrjaygaming8536]

no if Vader fully embraced the dark side Vader would lose Palpatine is hate in the flesh ultimately love is what killed Palpatine because he had no concept of love. also Vader's suit is weak to force lightning. but if he put his mind to it then yes he could beat Palpatine.

[@ericb8241]

Their first fight realistically Vader could’ve done WAY more damage if it wasn’t RIGHT after his injuries. He was very very weak in the force at that moment, yet still pushed sidious back. Had it been prime Vader, he could’ve used that element of surprise from a push to quickly(and hopefully) slash in time.

[@Studiosmediamilk]

Sidious stated many times in legends that Vader's limitations were mainly psychological, not physical. Also in the new canon when Vader goes to make his red light saber the crystal almost turned green, and he had a vision of him going back to light and defeating the emperor. Nonetheless he rejected the seduction of the light side due to the fact that the emperor and the empire was everything he had left. Vader's limitations were always psychological, he even wore the suit he wore, not the best one (not bad either, but not the best one) cuz it hurt him and he used that pain as a way of keeping himself in touch with the dark side.

[@Darknesss490]

That vision was Vader's imagination and not the force message that is why Obi-Wan is on a jungle planet and not on Tatooine. Becasue Vader didn't know Obi-Wan's location. Plus in Star Wars #25 Vader and Sidious had a sparring duel and Sidious defeated Vader with ease. The duel took place a few weeks after Vader bled his crystal and saw that vision. So that is what would happen if Vader would turn against Palpatine.

[@darthcaedus9350]

Palpatine was sick powerful. His master chose him as his apprentice for that very reason. Palpatine had the raw liking to rule and gain power. Anakin didn't. After becoming Vader, Anakin was dead. Vader was more powerful than Anakin. But one thing about Vader was that however the things might go there was a human part of him which helped him not convert to a total monster Palpatine was. Palpatine would not hesitate to kill. Nor would Vader but when it came to few cases Vader did. So Palpatine would have the upper ground unless Vader came up with an element of surprise.

[@HarryG98]

Vader is NOT more powerful than anakin

[@miminlenthang1047]

@@HarryG98 he lacks the mobility now and his force is not that strong anymore since his hands are changed so I agree he is weaker than Anakin

[@kart_master5669]

@@miminlenthang1047 and legs. And skin. Burnt

[@K.J.Richard]

Vader is indeed more powerful than ROTS Anakin, but let's not forget that he had 22 years old in this movie and every Jedi at this age are still padawans, Anakin never reached his full potential due to his injuries. Here is the top 7 higher Midichlorians count: Anakin: 27 000 Darth Vitiate: 25 000 Luke/Leia: 23 000 Galen Marek: 22 000 Cade Skywalker: 21 000 Palpatine: 20 000 Yoda: 19 000

[@DontCallmeLadale]

I don’t think Vader was more powerful than Anakin. I think he was more experienced.

[@dallasblues74]

If wasn’t for the weakness of his suit I’d say yes. Even with his body disfigured and limbs missing his pain and agony would give him almost unlimited power in the dark side of the force… if he fully gave into it. That suffering was something the Emperor just didn’t have. Because of this pain I think Sidious was aware that the potential still existed in him. So he created a suit that would amplify that suffering while also limiting his ability to face Sidious on a level playing field. Palpatine wouldn’t have given Vader such a weakness if he didn’t still somewhat fear his power.

[@queruba.]

Palpatine: "Vader, did you eat all the cream of spinach that was in the fridge???" Vader: "I guess I did" P: "YOU ATE THE CREAM OF SPINACH THAT I SAVED FOR MYSELF?" V: "HOW THE FUCK WOULD I KNOW" P: "YOU KNOW I LOVE SPINACH CREAM VADER" V: "OMG YOU ALWAYS DO THIS"

[@WolfA4]

To me the first example showed that Vader was more powerful in the force than Sidious but SIdious was gaslighting Vader into doubting himself. Considering how Vader's hubris had just lead to him having his leags and arm cut off when Obi-wan had the high ground he was probably weary of tempting fate again.

[@Aex89]

Had vader converted all of his pain to rage against sidious he would've won, as it's stated that the new Disney canon Vader surpassed his master in terms of power. However the only reason he couldn't beat Palpatine was because of the mental conflict, as stated by Luke he still had good in him.

[@talentlessbird3572]

That's exactly what I think on the situation

[@SASHAHAG]

nothing Disney touches is cannon in my book

[@Aex89]

@@SASHAHAG 90% of the Disney stuff is despicable imo too , but that 10% includes vader deserving his true power, not just being a broken man, but surpassing his master's power like the rule of two works

[@SASHAHAG]

@@Aex89 a blind squirrel can fi d a nut but cutting out the EU was equivalent to draining the food storages and wondering why the people are starving.

[@Aex89]

@@SASHAHAG yeah man I understand, they could've just made slight changes without de-canonizing the old canon (kotor, novelizations,tfu etc)

[@Dewitt-b8n]

I heard Palpatine had a drinking issue. That Sith Scotch is very smooth and potent. Makes you shoot lightning out of your damn hands 😂😂

[@ericokonkwo7771]

Imagine Darth Vader and Palpatine vs. Darth Plageius and General Grevious, interesting Fight/Battle! The Story could be that Plageius was resurrected by Starkiller and he decided to rebuilt Grevious in a New more lethal enhanced Forcer-User Killer form. Plageius wants the Empire and Grevious wants the title of ultimate Jedi/Sith killer!

[@Sunstar808]

Glad that Vader at least tried to saved the Twi’lek girl until Sidious ordered him otherwise. Couldn’t let Vader get anything over on him.

[@kevincalgta]

I believe that there would be no way that Darth Vader could ever hope to defeat his master primarily because of his suit and the injuries that he sustained on Mustafar and because his suit is vulnerable to force lightning that would be one of the biggest things that would probably lead to Vader‘s death

[@SuperDababy2]

It really depends, because when he's enraged he has gone quite awhile without his suit working or without it in general, that coupled with the massive power spike would probably make him Papa Palpatine level

[@lordsathariel4384]

@@SuperDababy2 he just needs to do abit of work on his suit not fix the issues but diminish their effect on him in a fight that plus the element of surprise and i would say he has a chance

[@joshkrause2977]

Lightning will only work if Vader doesn’t have a lightsaber. Also if Vader didn’t care about dying with Palpatine I think he would have a better shot. Ultimately Vader did defeat him at the cost of his life, he could have killed Palpatine when he saved him from the chair bomb as well.

[@mappingshaman5280]

@@joshkrause2977 not necessarily. When its yoda vs palpatine, palpatines lightning is so powerful it knocks away yodas lightsaber.

[@perripierceiii1204]

Yes and no. Vader's main problem is more psychological than anything. If he fully quelled his inner Anakin: he could go grow even more powerful in the Dark Side. Palpatine has even theorized as much. Vader could easily upgrade his own suit but he chooses not to for many reasons. He shackles himself in almost every way until he's enraged.

[@Skarbro]

I’ve always believed it’s all in Vaders/Anakin’s head. Once he finally broke the mental chains of Sidious, not to mention his vulnerability to lightning, his one hand, and damage to his leg, he killed Sidious with relative ease 😎

[@glitchypossum3602]

I definitely think he could. With the rage within his power to hold a lightsaber and force his pain beneath his foes. To fighting for unwritten promises that he collapses beneath. What I would think he would do as he learned the ways of the dark side and the emperors flaws, he would have fought through a way to take him out before Luke had is potential to stop all. From what I’ve learned about the emperor’s confusion is that he doesn’t see the good in Vader, only rage and endless power. Lord Vader would have to go through the biggest challenge yet as the emperor knew all. It would be said almost impossible because the suit was vulnerable to lightning and he was afraid of death trying on a new suit. But I feel like Vader would have gone for it anyway but in the process building it with the emperor but without him knowing, Vader would make it immune to lightning. And without a doubt Vaders next move after learning the new body, he would have slain him right where he lyes in the Death Star. How he would do it? I’m not too sure. I would say he would make the emperor promise something and then lie about it setting him up to slaughter him him in Vader’s fury. Or he would have waited to face his son and show Luke that he’s not what he’s been told to be and kill the emperor. But in the end I think the emperor would win only because his soul would have been sucked into Vader. Like he wanted Rey to do. And would take over once again. I would believe eventually he would have killed Luke and waited for kylo to make the next unstoppable empire.

[@glitchypossum3602]

Excuse my typos if there is any. I was in a rush.

[@earnistse4899]

Sidiuos isn't really the all powerful being some make him out to be. Mace literally owned him until Anakin betrayed mace.

[@Angel05433]

Earnist mace was better then every jedi except for yoda and palpatine is better then every jedi except for yoda they are equal, even tho mace beat palpatine, palpatine is still better

[@datboielijah1234]

I need what your smoking

[@timesupea]

​@@Angel05433no he's not, Mace is better then palpatine because of his mastery of the light and dark. Palpatine couldn't do anything against him, George said this. That's why it made Anakin's betrayal so much more tragic. Palpatine was so closed to getting killed by mace in a fair fight. Palpatine literally killed the other Jedis but couldn't kill mace cuz of his mastery

[@martinvr12]

And so does vader, sidious was just as cocky as vader was when fighting obi wan, reason why both of them got beated to almost killed. However, palpatine as matter of fact was the strongest sith.

[@lopirobinson1991]

The Emperor is always checking Vader's phone to catch him cheating.

[@carsonsmith8184]

I think Vader answers that himself really. He doesn't ever really state that he wants to overthrow the empower until he thinks he can get help. Now if help never arrived then maybe he could eventually with a great plan but it would have to be with the use of his mind rather than ability considering old Palpee made sure that Vader's weaknesses to force lightning would always be present.

[@jacobsmith8976]

If Vader had some advanced race built him another suit that looked exactly like the one he had but somewhere the emperor couldn't see like how Yoda escaped to

[@roger632]

Palpatine after fighting with Vader: "Ahh... phew... let's just cut this out, shall we, Lord Vader? Oh! How about we settle this over some space olive garden, how does that said eh?" Vader: "Extra bread sticks." Palpatine: "Extra bread sticks, anything for mi amigo."

[@gbrad1409]

Palatine has force lightning, and vaders suit was designed to be weak against it. Palatine might humor a fair fight but Purley for fun and if at any point the odds shifted he would just use force lightning and that would be that. There is no way vader would beat Palatine one on one. Simple as that.

[@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus]

that's no longer Canon. Vader has survived three separate hits with lithgning (both Force and natural)

[@NickMcRyan]

Why not? For one he did eventually end up killing Palps. For 2 Anakin was way more powerful then Kenobi was and Kenobi won their fight. Underdogs do sometimes come out on top.

[@Mystery-fl8be]

Vader only could have won if he got a more powerful cybernetic suit that didn't restrict his movement and was resistant to force lightning

[@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus]

He survived force lightning from Sidious twice in newer comics, and outspeeds Sidious in the novel Lords of the Sith

[@ElKabong3345]

@@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus Sadly, Force Lightning doesn't work in only one power setting, Sidious can tweak it to be as lethal as he wants, usually he shoots and tortures, amping it up slowly until it's lethal. Vader tweaked his own suit too, making it more and more resistant to lightning. However, even he knew it could not withstand a full power attack if Sidious ever decided to put the kid-gloves away.

[@brianhanes5413]

​@superdababy2 Maul and Savage would beat Vader if they jumped him. Sidious smoked them. Vader is only 80 percent as strong in lore, cope.

[@brianhanes5413]

He'd still lose. He lost a lot of his force power which means more than a suit. Remember Vader's quote in ANH. The force trumps tech. Sidious wouldn't have to duel him either, he could just tear him apart with the force. Which is what he'd do if Vader's suit made him a better duelist.

[@chumby2447]

Introducing yourself as “Pain and Death” in a language only you know 10/10

[@captainmay9033]

I can’t see Vader beating Palpatine simply due to his overwhelming talent with sith lightning. Vader’s suit is a massive liability there, much like Plagueis’ rebreathers were a huge weakness when Sidious turned on him. An akin in his prime? Sure, probably. But not Vader.

[@barrybij8079]

Its been shown that a light saber can block the lightning or he would redirect the lightning with the force...it would come down to sabers...i think in a prolonged fight vaders suite would help him and sidious would weaken...

[@captainmay9033]

@@barrybij8079 Remember, Sidious was no ordinary practitioner of sith lightning. He can literally flood an entire area with lightning, and as far as I know, he’s the only one who can conjure Force Storm at will. Vader could block some of the lightning sure, but Sidious would have plenty of opportunities to land bolts. Remember, Vader has been zapped with sith lightning on numerous occasions by far lesser opponents. You can’t just say ‘nah he can just block the lightning, problem solved.” Sidious was the most proficient wielder of lightning in Star Wars history. It would definitely be a factor if they fought.

[@barrybij8079]

@@captainmay9033 mace and rey blocked it

[@gaborkarsa5299]

@@barrybij8079 the last 3 episodes far away from Star Wars “reality” so don’t compare Vader and Rey, palpatine probably one shot Rey even Kylo both of them are beginners, kylo even almost lost from Finn who use lightsaber for the first time. And Rey just discovered her force and after 10 mins she can stop Sith eternal emperor good joke 😂 even chubacca almost killed kylo. In the old school Star Wars Vader will one shot both kylo and Rey. Rey is not even close to Anakin or Luke level. They just made a trilogy from huge money and don’t care about nothing the past stories and force power and the way Rey got god tier from a homeless in couple days make no sense…

[@gaborkarsa5299]

@@barrybij8079 and about Hux ship it was the biggest ship in the Star Wars history strongest as well they can locate anyone even in light speed, and somehow 7 resistance oldschool ship destroy almost the entire capital ship… if u think about this thing idk this just make me angry nothing logical in the trilogy…

[@MBSill]

If Vader had never been wounded by Obi-Wan, what would he look like after the Dark Side had consumed and had it's way with him? Would he have been hideously deformed, like Sidious? Or just a little ugly? I've always wondered about that. 🤔

[@KombatW0mbat]

Vader is far less vulnerable in canon vs legends. Legends he was only 80% of the emperor with a severe weakness to force lightning. While in canon the weakness is there it is nowhere near as severe. Also a misconception that people have about midichlorians vader in both legends and canon has the highest count as it’s based on cells and palpatine even makes note of how he still had his potential in legends. Vader still has the highest count ever recorded his issue in canon is the same one he had in legends. Belief in himself. Vader in legends believed he would eventually reach palpatine’s level but by the time he did palpatine would have surpassed it while in canon vader genuinely can reach that level within palpatine’s life time easily but it’s stated that vader had been tamed. He genuinely believed he was nothing without the emperor his conscious hatred of him didn’t come near his subconscious reliance on him.

[@Mr_Ez]

“I am your father “

[@cringe8160]

just if vader had electricity proof armour

[@doseofdion9667]

You failed to mention on the third case: Palps created a cult in an attempt to assassinate himself, and he use that to test Vaders loyalty

[@martinnibataan7046]

Sidious is way too fast, the only way Vader beats him is by surprise

[@michealcastor4775]

The background beat is insane I feel the anger!!!

[@joekerr4032]

The last thing Darth Sidious would ever see; was Darth Vader literally have the Upper Hand.

[@Sesshomaru3152]

I like the movie that george made and legends because vader felt like fear and power but in disney vader is treated like a weakling in the comics and in kenobi show vader was a raging person all the time but not caculating like in the movies this is just my opinion on it.

[@soyelmejor131]

Hey Stupendous Wave! Love the videos! I've never been a huge Star Wars fan - I enjoyed the movies, especially the original trilogy as a kid - but never really got hooked on it enough to dive deeper. As such, I find myself in situations where friends are talking about interesting Star Wars lore and I'm just standing there like a fleshy statue. I really appreciate that your videos are very specific, succinct talks about, well, generally anything Star Wars. The fact that I can pop in and in roughly 10 minutes or less get a solid baseline understanding of a Star Wars topic is perfect for my interest level (and has also succeeded in getting me always hungry for more). That said... I've noticed that it's difficult to hear your voice when you're using very low bass background music (such as at the start of this video). The strong presence of the near-subwoofer levels of bass make it hard to hear your lovely baritone voice on top. Hopefully this is just a personal issue with my PC+speaker setup, but just in case I'm not alone I figured I'd mention it. PS - is there a unit of measure for Force abilities? My understanding is that midichlorians are an indication of how strong one's connection the Force is in general; but is there a unit of measure for how strong a user's abilities are? Or would you just use Newtons as we do with physical forces in our world? (IE - is there a numerical way to compare Vader's Force Push to, say, Luke's or Yoda's? Is there a number to how much power Palpatine could produce with lightning?)

[@inquisitorgarza312]

It is the nature of the Sith for the Apprentice to challenge the Master, and no doubt that Palpatine was waiting for the right time for this very challenge. That why Sidious was so excited at the fact Vader did everything in his power to destroy and defeat his would-be replacements after the destruction of the Death Star, and even if he didn’t directly challenge him he still proud that he act like a true Sith Lord.

[@MrGeo-EmitFodrol]

Let's get a animated series following Vader and Sidious... I loved bad batch but imagine a show following them just slaying everything. The guests in that show could be top notch. I really want either a Empire show or even better a Sith show. I think people would go nuts.

[@ChristopherChrisEverett]

Four when Vader fought Palpatine after The Empire Strikes Back, was electrocuted, dismembered, and sent back to Mustafar to receive the same immolation as he did in ROTS.

[@sonictemple2925]

I wish they would have shown the fight on screen in ROTS. It would be really cool to see an altercation between the both of them.

[@kilroy3579]

During his duel with Yoda, Sidious mentioned that Vader would become more powerful than either of them. He said it in a manner that almost mocked Yoda. Vader was supposed to be Sidious's ultimate achievement and final victory over the Jedi. But then all of that changed when Obi-Wan whooped him on Mustafar. I believe even George Lucas is on the record as saying the emperor was disappointed with Vader, over the injuries he suffered. As a result, Vader's potential had been completely wasted. Had he remained whole, he would've no doubt surpassed and succeeded the emperor, as he was supposed to. But I think those plans went out the window, the moment Sidious found him on the lava shore. At that moment, Vader become just another useful tool, while the emperor looked for a more worthy heir.

[@katiepersons6575]

I think that if he could truly purge the last of the good that was in him as Anakin Skywalker and let go of all the regret, guilt and remorse then he may not have been twice as powerful as Emperor, but he would have been powerful enough to engage him on equal terms.

[@brandonwright1377]

Maybe, Vader is still just in a bad position being mostly machine. Force Lightning just hard counters it. Also Vader lost a lot of potential because he lost so much of his physical body.

[@sno0p3r]

Vader is a disturbance in the force

[@Kyle-vb3fz]

Excellent video

[@DerelictusAnima]

If only he upgraded his suit in secret to be resistant to force lightning Vader would have no issues crushing Palpatine + if he learned to use Vaapad like Windu.

[@TonyStark-wc3ih]

This is why one should never serve evil

[@IamSupreme333]

Vader would need the perfect situation and setting taking place in order to have a chance at killing Sidious. Im sure by now we can all agree that non crippled, potential reached Vader can beat and over power pretty much every other life form in the SW galaxy.

[@jakealter5504]

Save for abeloth

[@IamSupreme333]

@@jakealter5504 true

[@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus]

@@jakealter5504 nah. He was the Chosen One. The Father said Anakin was meant to replace him. If Luke and Leia were on board standing for the Son and the Daughter. the Skywalkers would surely win. Luke did it with Krayt, who's not as mighty as the Skywalkers FP.

[@jakealter5504]

@@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus your forgetting that abeloth was fighting THREE groups in different locations at the same time

[@markvalentine6735]

I expected to hear about the time Vader threw Pelpatine down the shaft in the Death Star 2 at the end of Star Wars Return of the Jedi aka Revenge of the Jedi.

[@WorldWarComics]

I could see Vader barely beating Palpatine. But just like in Return of the Jedi, it would cost him his life. I think Vader never tried to turn against Palaptine and always stayed loyal was because he was the only one left who he knew from his past life as Anakin, while at the same time, Palpatine groomed Anakin into turning to the dark side since he met him after Phantom Menace, so in a way, just like Obi Wan, he too was a father figure to Anakin/Vader.

[@lewis1567]

In the star wars Darth Vader Comic Vader attempts to kill the emperor with a beast on Exegol

[@cosmicjack1215]

The question is already answered. Vader lifting, holding and controlling one handedly Sidious for longer than it took Sidious to kill three Jedi and then lobbing him down a shaft. Yeah I'd say he can win in a fight. Sorry palp fans.

[@gutstheberserkerr]

The only reason Sidious was betrayed by Vader was because he didn’t fully put Bane’s plan into motion. One master, one apprentice. One to hold power, the other to crave it. Sidious was too greedy, which ultimately led to the Sith’s downfall and caused Vader to finally beat him and be redeemed by his son.

[@markphilip2019]

I think Palpatine wins for the sole reason that Vader's suit was so sensitive to force lightning. I honestly feel in a fair fight both would be on a level ground until palpatine tapped into his massive force powers.

[@SASHAHAG]

you might as well added the time Vader through the emperor down the shaft for those who didn't watch the original movies

[@karnypharax1917]

I have never been of the mind that Vader could stand against the emperor alone. Vader's suit is little more than a mechanical lung and is vulnerable to force lightning. This is ULTIMATLEY what killed him in ROTJ.

[@shaungonzales7918]

You forgot to mention when Vader chucked old man Sheevy McGreevy down the death Star reactor

[@KiltedVeteran]

You forgot to mention that Sidious knew about the bomb and when Vader rode a flying space monster to Exogol to fight Sidious.

[@MegaDrain]

Given every time Palpatine has been hit by the force (both by Yoda and Vader) means he views himself superior at all times and doesn't believe he can be hurt by the force. Obviously him being a Sith, regardless of his power, arrogance is his Achilles heel; which of course is what kills him in the end.

[@silvernexoknight]

Awesome Vid

[@DreadMaximus]

You forgot about the fight from the Vader comic but you did include a shot from it when Vader has the guards in a force choke. Palpatine then chokes and crushes Vader and forces him to rebuild his suit.

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

By "resistance leader" who they killed in the ambush you mean Istval? Cause Cham Syndulla lived because she made that huge twilek whose name I can't remember get him out. I would think he would be the leader of that resistance but I assume you mean the final leader of that strike group in the final ambush? Lords of the sith is maybe my favorite of the Canon star wars novels. The action was amazing and well written with a lot of clarity in the details. Characters were amazing, I loved istvals character and the duality of her outer strength and viciousness but also how hurt and sad she is on the inside. That book really laid bare that Vader at least at that point had no real hope of defeating sidious. Vader was almost awed watching him destroy a nest of lyleks by himself. I really think that trip to ryloth kept Vader in line for several years to come

[@d0dg3st4r]

What about the time Darth Vader rubbed the Emperor’s toothbrush around the toilet bowl?

[@TheDarkKnight80]

It makes u realise how much vital stuff they left out of the movies lol

[@timothyhenegar7484]

Keep in mind folks, remember that chain clamping Vader's cape together? That wasn't to make him Pimp looking. That was to remind the audience that Vader is Palpy's bitch.

[@richardrobinson1663]

Vader would've needed a new suit in a straight up 1v1. Palp knew how strong Vader still was in the force and in time he grew stronger, hence part of the reason his suit used middling tech. If there was no Luke I think eventually Vader would've pursued a new suit and if Palpatine saw it he would've recognized his apprentice was prepare to over throw him. He mightve even come to respect Vader more for it. But I think depending on timing Palpatine held a clear advantage in force powers/knowledge that would've been hard for Vader to overcome.

[@ryotaryuu]

Vader is Taller so he has the high ground and would win.

[@gpaulso]

Case fucking closed

[@chrisrodas6348]

The last one is legends not canon you should’ve used the comic where he tried using the monster on exogol to fight Sidious

[@CalebOrvik]

I force crushed the like button and smashed my phone

[@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus]

Yup, Vader could beat Sidious, especially if there was some situation involving Padme. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1) Vader is a better duelist than Sidious. It has been confirmed in SW Canon, and while it is certain Sidious has mastered all 7 forms of lightsaber combat, while I'm only sure of Vader having mastered 4 (Djem-So, Soresu, Juyo and Makashi) I have seen claims that Vader too has mastered all seven post-mustafar. Though the 4 he mastred would be enough to win an engagement. Vader has combined sequences of Makashi, Juyo and Soresu into his top-notch Djem-So. Sidious is not directly familiar with Vader's hybrid style, which would grant a minimal edge, as a factor of surprise. Another thing worth mentioning is that Vader is a far more dedicated duelist than Sidious, who only saw lightsaber combat as a means for humiliation against the Jedi. 2) While Sidious is beyond any doubt more knowledgable and perhaps even versed in the ways of the Force, especially the secrets of the Dark Side, Vader's raw power is such that it can match Sidious. While Sidious is superior with his use of the force, Vader is not outclessed ot the point Sidious can humiliate him. Even if the edge is on Sidious's side, which it almost certainly is, Vader can handle it just enough to fight on. 3) Vader is more durable and has more stamina than Sidious. The former has fought the Starkiller clone on Camino for several hours on end, supposedly due to enhancing drugs via the suit, and the developers claimed that Vader has held back. Sidious on the other hand is, much certainly like Yoda, unable to fight long due to his age - Force Augmentation drains one's energy. 4) Vader's weakness to force lightning, or any lightning for that matter is a stereotype. Canonically Vader has survived being hit by lightning 3 times: - 1st. was from Sidious himself, after his reconstruction. The Suit didn't turn off at all. Vader just stood up. - 2nd. was when planetary lightning itself struck Vader when he was having a self-test of a fight with Tarkin and his mercinaries. When Tarkin thought he had won, Vader force choked him. - 3rd. was when Vader was weakened by conflict over Luke (and the Light Side with it). Sidious was scolding him for it and attacked him with Force lightning, which Vader stopped with his lightsaber, and despite the comic showing the lightning crawling up Vader's arms, the suit wasn't turned off yet again. 5) Both can break each other's force walls. Vader didi it before 4)1st up above happened. Sidious did it when 4)3rd. happened. Both had caught each other with Force chokes. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Peace

[@huntersorensen5000]

Where can I find a list of books that are considered cannon?

[@Guyinthecoffeeshop]

Something I never understood is why Vader couldn’t just deflect The emperors force lightning back at him using his light saber very similar to what mace windo had done

[@Tempusverum]

The metal suit attracts lightning as much as the lightsaber. His blade would only block about 75%

[@chriswilson8683]

Bro thank you I knew the limitations of his suit but always wondered the same thing he just asked

[@charliebridgewater2270]

Darth Vader DID kill the emperor though, sans clones or weird unlikely super impossible survival scenarios. He chucked his old ass down that power conduit and out of sight for the next 40 years. So yeah, the disabled sith Lord who took an electrical whooping took palpatine down and destroyed his empire. Everybody wants instant balance 😂 sometimes you gotta let that shit simmer for a while

[@rrlau34]

Would always have to be an element of surprise as Sidious would kill Vader with Force Lightning. And this is exactly how it went down. Vader through Sidious down the reactor shaft and suffered collateral damage of Sidious’ Force Lightning.

[@dontme6996]

In a FAIR fight? Lol, we're talking about sith. In all honesty, something we've learned is that canon puts far more focus on skill than potential unlike legends which was the exact opposite. Palpatine is basically a pinnacle force user. Based solely on what we know: Vader has tried a couple of times to overthrow Sidious. Like when he came in on a flying squid monster... Before Sidious seized control from him then had the monster (the most dangerous natural predator alive) kill itself on the spot. Sidious allows Vader to come to Exegol, where he crushes all of Vader's mechanical limbs, then immediately orders a nearby Surgical Droid to fully repair Vader. Sidious wasnt even remotely nervous at the thought of Vader attempting to seize the throne. Sidious is far too skilled for Vader to handle. ROTJ Sidious scales above ROTS Sidious, who is EVEN with ROTS Yoda. Sidious also doesn't teach vader anything. So the few powers Vader might have mastered, Sidious has ALSO mastered, as well as having several others. Vader is lucky to get the hand-me-down holocrons Sidious doesn't want. It's honestly unfair. Vader HAS to catch palpatine off guard to win.

[@TheAlbertaChannel]

Theory: in the Original trilogy we see that Vader skin has healed back to a more normal looking state rather then the crispy bacon he use to look like when he first put on the suit which having all that dead tissue is how he declined in power. So the hypothesis, could it be possible for Vader to regain some of that lost power now that ( at least looking at the head ) a lot of the skin has been returned to a relatively normal state?

[@baldrian22]

is the events from the second one also part of legends? it honestly sounds like events that could easly be in legends to

[@Lanwarder]

What about that time in ROTJ lol? Also, that comic in which Vader took control of a creature that may have been a Summa-verminoth or something close and tried to Kill Palpatine with it.

[@ElKabong3345]

That suit was too much of an Off-Button to Vader. In a straight up battle, Vader could now tutaminis Palpatine's Sith Lightning like Yoda could, understanding the malice and embracing it, powering him up instead. However, in the attempt, his suit could not handle it.

[@xanatoselite6078]

Why do he alway fail to notice that obi wan was good to him

[@Trwillis9]

Vader should have researched every way to stop force lightening smh

[@Themostawesomestvids]

This would have never happened, if Obi Wan Kenobi joined Count Dooku when he had the chance.

[@freddym9964]

what is the song at the end of the video?

[@adiabeticjedi3278]

What about that time in the new comics where Vader was chasing Sidious to Exogol? Where Vader tamed and controlled a space kraken, and Sidious brought his own. Blow after blow of one upping each other?

[@valleyforge090]

Technically there are 4 instances where Vader and Sidious fought.... the 4th time Sidious flying down a shaft in his throne room on the second death star

[@jammydeangeway3780]

ive forcecrushed the sub button from the start of your channel!!! a few years ago !

[@joseaustin2692]

He could only have the upper hand if he can somehow neutralize the emperors force lightning, That lightning gives him a very powerful range attack he doesn’t have to be close up and he can literally fry Vader’s circuits

[@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus]

Then how come Vader lived through it twice?

[@cloracle4420]

Clearly he had the upper hand in the revenge of the sith rage moment. Too bad he let go.

[@ryanmdougherty1162]

If he had better cybernetics and no respirator and years of dark side tutelage he would easily kick sidious ass.

[@moistjalapeno846]

Vader’s superpower is his pain and anger. Every time Vader fulls sends he is essentially invincible. I believe that if Vader full sent it he could have killed Sidious. But as we know, Vader has a hard time fighting people he has an emotional connection with. Sidious was a father figure to him which is why I think he had a hard time focusing deeply enough to take him. A bloodlusted Vader, I think, would.

[@markblackburn2343]

Much like Sidious did to Plagueis got him drunk an surprised him whilst comatose. Thats kind why it works in ROTJ hesvto busy hurling force lightning at Luke not even envisioning Darth/Anakin would turn on him.

[@vestarakhai5303]

Vader if he hadn't been weakened by Kenobi would have had been more than a match for Sideous

[@owenjones6114]

What about that one time Vader accidentally threw Palpatine down a shaft

[@pt_3118]

I've always heard that they fought, a fight scene in season 2 of obi wan would be epic

[@JonBecker81]

There won’t be another season of Obi Wan. It was just a mini series. What they need to make is a series on the backstory of Palpatine.

[@Trippy_Ghost]

they need to make a series on these comics

[@archuleta1000]

Well we all saw that Vader did get the upper hand with Sidious when he intervened and saved Luke🤷‍♂️

[@gabrielnasc6322]

in the comics we see the difference in power between vader and sidious and seems huge