The Open Forum Episode 41

Episode 41 of 'The Open Forum' where Christians, Atheists are invited to join the discussion. Guests will be invited on a first come first serve basis. Please note we can only have a maximum of 10 panelists (including efdawah panelists) at any one time.
Link to join the panel:
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Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
03:55 - Mahesh joins: Empirical evidence for God's existence
11:49 - Discussion on the Universe's origin & God
31:09 - Discussion on evidence for God's existence
37:29 - Arguments for the Existence of God
40:21 - Reviewing the discussion with Mahesh
42:53 - Timothy joins & shares his contentions
48:33 - Hajj in the Hebrew Old Testament
1:02:25 - Foundation Stone at Jerusalem & the Black Stone at the Kaaba
1:14:06 - Christianity being Pagan in nature
1:16:45 - Paul teaching Jews to not follow the law
1:45:39 - Paul's inconsistent position on the Law
1:50:01 - pineda (Troll) joins
1:50:55 - Naturalist joins & shares his beliefs
1:52:12 - Discussion on the Origin of the Universe (Alexander Vilenkin's paper)
2:44:55 - Watson (Ex-Muslim) joins & shares his beliefs
2:46:11 - Watson's reasons for leaving Islam
2:47:31 - Discussion on Existence of Evidence
2:55:56 - Issues with Watson's beliefs
2:56:53 - Chinwag & Inviting Guests
2:57:46 - Pablo joins
2:58:09 - Scrutinizing Paul's position on the Law
3:05:42 - Amet joins: Searching for the right religion
3:10:09 - Seeking Guidance
3:14:43 - Fate of people that are Ignorant of Islam
3:16:37 - Being chosen to be guided by Allah ﷻ
3:18:55 - Advice to Amet
3:21:23 - Closing Remarks

[@asadullahsaaid3794]

*Timestamps:* 00:00 - Introduction 03:55 - *Mahesh joins:* Empirical evidence for God's existence 11:49 - Discussion on the Universe's origin & God 31:09 - Discussion on evidence for God's existence 37:29 - Arguments for the Existence of God 40:21 - Reviewing the discussion with Mahesh 42:53 - *Timothy joins* & shares his contentions 48:33 - Hajj in the Hebrew Old Testament 1:02:25 - Foundation Stone at Jerusalem & the Black Stone at the Kaaba 1:14:06 - Christianity being Pagan in nature 1:16:45 - Paul teaching Jews to not follow the law 1:45:39 - Paul's inconsistent position on the Law 1:50:01 - pineda (Troll) joins 1:50:55 - *Naturalist joins* & shares his beliefs 1:52:12 - Discussion on the Origin of the Universe (Alexander Vilenkin's paper) 2:44:55 - *Watson (Ex-Muslim) joins* & shares his beliefs 2:46:11 - Watson's reasons for leaving Islam 2:47:31 - Discussion on Existence of Evidence 2:55:56 - Issues with Watson's beliefs 2:56:53 - Chinwag & Inviting Guests 2:57:46 - *Pablo joins* 2:58:09 - Scrutinizing Paul's position on the Law 3:05:42 - *Amet joins:* Searching for the right religion 3:10:09 - Seeking Guidance 3:14:43 - Fate of people that are Ignorant of Islam 3:16:37 - Being chosen to be guided by Allah ﷻ 3:18:55 - Advice to Amet 3:21:23 - Closing Remarks MashaAllah 💖🤍❤️ *Splendid Stream* 👍🏻👌🏻 _May Allah ﷻ bless you all and reward you for your efforts._ 🤲🏻

[@Badri31333]

بارك الله فيك

[@sammaj2731]

The Indian atheists are the funniest people on earth …. They are Hindus in India and atheist to outside India ….. they don’t debate Hindus preacher guru loooooooool …..

[@publicpm8809]

Lol so true

[@mohammedkhan1038]

@aries a so which scripture tells you to kill atheists willy nilly?

[@mohammedkhan1038]

@aries a Rigveda. Book 9, Hymn XIII: PASSED through, the fleece in thousand streams the Soma, purified, flows on to Indra's, Viyu's special place. Sing forth, ye men who long for help, to Pavamana, to the Sage, effused to entertain the Gods. The Soma-drops with thousand powers are purified for victory, Hymned to become the feast of Gods. Yea, as thou flowest bring great store of food that we may win the spoil Indu, bring splendid manly might. May they in flowing give us wealth in thousands, and heroic power,- These Godlike Soma-drops effused. Like coursers by their drivers urged, they were poured forth, for victory, swift through the woollen straining-cloth. Noisily flow the Soma-drops, like milch-kine lowing to their calves: They have run forth from both the hands. As Gladdener whom Indra loves, O Pavamana, with a roar Drive all our enemies away. O Pavamamas, driving off the godless, looking on the light, Sit in the place of sacrifice. Here we see that it is commendable to kill atheists. Other commentators on this text have extended the concept of "atheist" in Hindu texts to all non-believers of Hinduism;therefore, Christians are atheists, Buddhists are atheists, Jains are atheists, etc. Therefore, not only is it commendable to kill atheists, but Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Muslims, etc....all are fair game because of their "atheism". Book 7, Hymn VI, Stanza 3: The foolish, faithless, rudely-speaking niggards, without belief or sacrifice or worship,- Far far sway hath Agni chased those Dasytis, and, in the cast, hath turned the godless westward. This stanza clarifies that the object of revulsion is the atheist, those who do not make sacrifices or offer worship to Lord Ram. Even more interesting is the idea that the godless make their home in the west. This hymn would seem to be setting the scene for some conflict between the followers of the Hinduism and western civilization, which must be either conquered and made to worship Lord Ram, or be expunged. Book 9, Hymn LXIII, Stanza 5: Performing every noble work, active, augmenting Indra's strength, driving away the godless ones. Here again the faithful are called upon the drive out atheists from among them.

[@mohammedkhan1038]

@aries a I am not so stupid as to believe everything someone says on KZbin without checking out the facts for myself. Only a brainwashed fool would do that.

[@mohammedkhan1038]

@aries a Another interesting set of Hindu scriptures that seek to malign atheists are the Puranas, specifically the Brahma Puranas. Much like the Bible or the Quran, which condemn atheists to burn in hell for all eternity for not believing, the Brahma Puranas condemn the atheist to an eternity of torment. Here, I use the G.P. Bhatt [1955] English translation. Chapter 65, verses 71-73: [71] Thus O brahmins is the greatest abode of Viṣṇu endowed with all enjoyable pleasures and attributes. It is conducive to the pleasures of everyone. It is holy and full of mysteries. [72] Atheists and profligates do not go there. Nor do the following go there viz.-the ungrateful arid those who are of uncontrollable sense-organs. [73] The devotees of Viṣṇu who worship Vāsudeva the preceptor of the universe with devotion, go to the world of Viṣṇu. Here we see that only the devotees of Visnu (i.e., the Hindu) is rewarded, while the atheist is punished.

[@seraaf4198]

Happy to see ijaz i hope he is better may Allah bless him with health Aameen

[@kashikhan760]

Allah bless you brothers for making these amazing streams and for all the work you guys do.

[@fromtheperiphery]

Timothy came on with an almost perfect marriage of confidence and ignorance. Unbelieveable.

[@cvsearchuk6231]

Unfortunately for him, he was wrong. He is also wrong with sticking with Christianity for now. May Allah SWT give us all hidaya. Ameen

[@DavidJacobs14]

What confidence? I asked a million questions and asked if that was correct. I was open to being corrected. I was also extremely nervous and driving the car, so completely unprepared. I only wanted to come on to ask questions about things that were said and get clarification. I was extremely disappointed to think they were deliberately deceiving people. You should learn from these guys when it comes to ignorance in your statements of judgment

[@mozzjonas9292]

Mate this is exactly what his talking about. You are intentionally being ignorant. The brothers gave you clear cut straight to the point answers to the questions and concerns you had. Now that u have already made up your mind that whatever response they give you its false, that’s on you mate. Don’t be ignorant for your own sake

[@cvsearchuk6231]

@@DavidJacobs14 the brothers are conveyancing the truth sincerely. I understand Islam may shake your beliefs to the core, but you should have apologised for the deliberately misleading accusation. Islam is the truth and Alhamdulillah has all the answers, keep seeking sincerely and Allah SWT will bring you close.

[@tawAAkul]

@@DavidJacobs14 with respect you came on. You basically said you think they are deliberately misleading people. Your first example is the word of Hajj and when Imran pointed out the root words and letters, you didn't know that he was right and that you don't know the language. So why come on and make such a claim?

[@incineratorium]

The Arabic language made several contributions to the revival of the Hebrew language. During the time when the revival of Hebrew was taking place, the Arab world was a major cultural and linguistic influence in the region, and the revivalists sought to draw on this influence to shape the revival of Hebrew. Here are some of the specific ways in which Arabic contributed to the revival of Hebrew: Vocabulary: The revivalists incorporated many Arabic loanwords into the modern Hebrew vocabulary, particularly in areas such as trade, technology, and the natural world. This helped to expand the modern Hebrew vocabulary and gave it a more relevant and up-to-date feel. Grammar: The revivalists also drew on Arabic grammar patterns, particularly in the area of verb conjugation, to help create a more flexible and functional modern Hebrew grammar. Pronunciation: The revivalists adopted the Sephardic pronunciation of Hebrew, which was heavily influenced by Arabic and other languages spoken in the region. This helped to create a standardized pronunciation for modern Hebrew. Overall, the contributions of Arabic to the revival of Hebrew helped to create a modern and relevant form of spoken Hebrew that could serve as the language of the Jewish people in Palestine. These contributions helped to make Hebrew a living language once again, after centuries of decline and disuse. Ref: "A History of the Hebrew Language" by Angel Sáenz-Badillos, Cambridge University Press (1993) "Hebrew in Ashkenaz" by Dovid Katz, Oxford University Press (2012) "The Emergence of Modern Hebrew as a Spoken Language: A Study of the Historical and Ideological Backgrounds" by Avner Holzman, Oxford University Press (1999)

[@sutil5078]

yes I have noticed that just by reading some articles here and there, but thanks a lot for your post you explained it in more organized way, just few years ago I was searching for the etymology of the term Yahweh, and I wrote etymology of the word Yahweh and one of the results was Torah... and you add dot.. c.. and they say it could have come from Arabic thought I think if it is the case, it would have come from Ya Hayy (O living one) not from ishiq as they said.. imagine this word Yahweh is very very important for them.. thanks again for your post, may Allah grant you love, light, and knoweldge and Jannah and all of us amin.

[@East1London]

Dr Imran... I rue the opportunity missed by not engaging with you more than I did when I met you and the revert brothers on Mount Uhud in Medina during Umrah 2019. May Allah cross our paths again in sha Allah

[@agulm6625]

Absolutely agree with Abbas ,what he told the naturist before he left . He needed to be told .

[@IndoFahmi]

"chagg" literally have the same root letters with "hajj", the pronunciation of course is different. Even between arabs there is a different in pronunciation. Arabs in Egypt would spell and pronounce the arabic word for "Camel" with the letter "G" (latinized: Gamal), and arabs in Saudi pronounce and spell it with "J" (Jamal). Also, it is literally what the difference is between "chagg" and "hajj". And what the jews spell with "ch" is what arabs would spell it with "h", for example the word "echad" and "ahad" which have the same meaning. "Chagg" and "Hajj" is literally the same word!

[@JohnTronto]

Which makes me suspicious about his claim that he studied Hebrew. If he didnt then hes a liar. But if he did study Hebrew, which means he does know that chagag pronounced very similar to hajj, that makes him also a liar.

[@rsza5911]

Imran has one of the most methodical minds on any You Tube Channel....respect!

[@DePeaceHunter]

Expected from a doctor.

[@Just_logic]

@@DePeaceHunter Why would it be expected? Because he is a doctor (physician)?

[@ThinkingFreedom]

may Allah bless you bros. this is extremely high quality highly professional streaming. We are lucky to have a platform like you guys and are spoiled. I only wish we had efdawahs in every country

[@East1London]

MashaAllah. May Allah preserve you brothers Abbas, Ijaz and Imran... The smile on my face when I realised EFDawah has a fresh stream today... My upcoming few hours are set! In sha Allah.

[@fazilamakkan1569]

...And brother Nazambo 🤲🏼

[@hxhshow9]

Imran: Does Science give you facts? Lost one: define facts! Imran: don't JP me!

[@Just_logic]

😂😂😂

[@safianhamid886]

Timothy really irritates me. He called the brothers out and said they misrepresented the Hajj in Hebrew which is really strong accusation. Rather than saying can you guys shed more light on it he straight out said they lied. Shows his disingenuous mindset. Love the brothers for engaging with him and explaining the issues to him. Many Allah reward the brothers Ameen.

[@JohnTronto]

He just reverted to Islam & apologized.

[@taimur74]

Listening to people like mahesh and naturalist makes me want to fall into Sujood and thank Allah for making me a Muslim

[@yassir2824]

Same thing with me, everytime I hear people confusing themselves like this I always say "Alhamdulilah for Islam"

[@ALzzanam]

جزاكم الله خيرا

[@fahad055]

Jazakom Allah khair brothers.

[@oumarsakho9769]

Lâ Hawla wa lâ Quwwata illâ billâhi'l aliyul Aziim. Assalaamualaykum (peace be upon you). Alhamdulillâhi Rabbil âlamiin. Allâhumma Salli alâ Seyyidinâ Mawlâna Muhammadin wa Sallim. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. May ALLÂH SWT Reward you abondantly. May ALLÂH SWT Make it Easy for all and Guide, Protect, Bless, Help us and Grant all of us Jannah. Ameen Ameen Ameen Ameen Ameen Ameen…

[@quranchannel4622]

jazaka ALLAH kheir

[@rizviraj3834]

Love you guys. One of my wishes is to meet you guys someday in person Insha-Allah. May Allah grant you guys Jannatul-Ferdous ❤❤❤

[@starton5420]

أجمل ناس على الإطلاق احبكم في الله

[@t3ucy]

Mr B Watson: self-evident 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@troll821]

I’m going to present on naturalism this week.

[@RayOfHope8]

❤️❤️❤️🌹🌹🌹🌹

[@khalidsharif1795]

I thought difference between creation of universe regress and contigiancy is. The contigiancy is irrelevant of time in any instance we can say everything is dependant on something else for its existence. And you can't have a infinant chain of dependences. Because you need a necessary thing to explain everything

[@timmytab2836]

Watching Naturalist do anything to explain the origins of the universe without just calling it God is absolutely incredible.

[@aminaaden2921]

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

[@Ashes3123]

To escape the idea of a god created universe, the atheist has invented impossible universes, and illogical ways of thinking... Madness. Better to assume a necessary being of some such sort.

[@DePeaceHunter]

Anything.but.God. Anything

[@mrbwatson8081]

Your ideas of what universe IS, and what the universe actually IS are NOT the same thing . If you fail to grasp that you are majnoon:)

[@mrbwatson8081]

@Kadir Muhammad No matter what your ideas about reality, they are NOT reality ITSELF. Something you may need help to understand..... your ideas about what reality IS, your perspective about what reality IS, is finite and limited compared to BOUNDLESS INFINITE REALITY ♾️ . An idea is by definition finite partial and incomplete compared to the infinite reality an idea is trying to encompass or point at. please take time and read that it's not that obvious what I am saying. An idea of reality exits in reality, as an idea....Reality is far greater then an idea. The only thing that can encompass aĺl reality is ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Absolute Truth being simply that which is the case or that which IS, or that which is ISING :)

[@hamzazulfi]

@Kadir Muhammad "these are all valid scientific hypothesis" *Valid is a real stretch there. anything is considered valid nowadays if it's labelled as science.* "instead of just blind following" *You're projecting my friend. The Islamic conception of God claim is rational and intuitive. What you are positing can't be argued logically, intuitively or even observationally.*

[@itisyouthatiadore]

Is naturalist somehow related to apuss?both of their favourite word is "its irrelevant "

[@candicezerafa1269]

❤2 EF DAWAH. may Allah guide us all to the truth 🤲🇵🇸. by the way Tim Tam came on hoping there's is no answers to his questions. hope doesn't always work. I believe what the eye see not what the ears hear. Peace is the way 2 ❤love no peace no ❤.that's something I have 2 learn to live with to Allah we belong and to Allah we will return ☝

[@mohammedkhan1038]

Naturalist is basically saying that nobody had a weight before the invention of the scale.

[@seanou2837]

Jews did hadj just like the Arabs did from the time of Ibrahim (as) until around 200 AD when statues started to be placed in Mecca. Moses was in Mecca with Jethro.

[@rasseriegmail7270]

What song is this? In the intro.

[@nargis751]

I didn’t know Roberto Baggio was a naturalist

[@amadoudiallo7525]

It’s crazy how people reject God just to follow their desires

[@Toronado2]

To Brothers Imran and Ijaz and Abbas Definition of Paganism according to the Bible; 2Ch 28:3 He offered sacrifices in the valley of Ben-Hinnom, even SACRIFICING HIS OWN SONS in the fire. In this way, he followed the DETESTABLE PRACTICES of the PAGAN nations the LORD had driven from the land ahead of the Israelites. As is Evident that GOD Sacrificing His SON is what is PAGAN.

[@eistudiesl7193]

That's a good point/verse.

[@suhailinayat5120]

On 53:00 brother Imran is showing a powerpoint document ( Islam vs Paganism ) can you please let me know where can I get this from, author name of the book etc any link will be much appreciated.

[@basedmuslimbooks]

2:31:20 built into it's nature. So It's a design feature. He just admitted subconsciously that his quantum god is designed. Who is the designer?

[@Just_logic]

Engaging naturalist in a discussion is endless.

[@welcometolife4237]

He's talking from his backside again. Can't even create a single tree

[@Just_logic]

@@welcometolife4237 he is testing his knowledge, or just enjoying the debate for the sake of debate. He is not sincere in searching of the truth.

[@JA-jh5gr]

Watson 🎤💥 on himself ultra skeptic nonsense. Unreal 2:48:00+-

[@sammaj2731]

Hebrew language is constructed and revive by the use of Arabic language

[@incineratorium]

I have heard of this before Can you direct me to some sources? Edit: The Arabic language made several contributions to the revival of the Hebrew language. During the time when the revival of Hebrew was taking place, the Arab world was a major cultural and linguistic influence in the region, and the revivalists sought to draw on this influence to shape the revival of Hebrew. Here are some of the specific ways in which Arabic contributed to the revival of Hebrew: Vocabulary: The revivalists incorporated many Arabic loanwords into the modern Hebrew vocabulary, particularly in areas such as trade, technology, and the natural world. This helped to expand the modern Hebrew vocabulary and gave it a more relevant and up-to-date feel. Grammar: The revivalists also drew on Arabic grammar patterns, particularly in the area of verb conjugation, to help create a more flexible and functional modern Hebrew grammar. Pronunciation: The revivalists adopted the Sephardic pronunciation of Hebrew, which was heavily influenced by Arabic and other languages spoken in the region. This helped to create a standardized pronunciation for modern Hebrew. Overall, the contributions of Arabic to the revival of Hebrew helped to create a modern and relevant form of spoken Hebrew that could serve as the language of the Jewish people in Palestine. These contributions helped to make Hebrew a living language once again, after centuries of decline and disuse. Ref: "A History of the Hebrew Language" by Angel Sáenz-Badillos, Cambridge University Press (1993) "Hebrew in Ashkenaz" by Dovid Katz, Oxford University Press (2012) "The Emergence of Modern Hebrew as a Spoken Language: A Study of the Historical and Ideological Backgrounds" by Avner Holzman, Oxford University Press (1999)

[@troll821]

@@incineratorium just search for Semitic languages and you’ll find the Arabic .

[@user-ib9of6dm5n]

@@incineratorium Massive respect for inquiring and doing your own research then sharing it. Well done, this is how academic inquiry should be done.

[@humeree]

How do you know, can you prove this quantum, without will, and he says "it is random". Oh now there is a puddle.

[@Ashes3123]

Brother abbas mic drop moment 2:25, following Naturalist puddle argument. btw, Naturalist doesn't seem familiar with the arguments for demonstrating that this necessary being has will. Hopefully, he is one step closer...

[@Toronado2]

Also Naturalism DEPENDS on LAWS. Laws have to be CREATED Before the Material/Energy so that the Material/Energy can have Substance/Existance. What science does is analyze something AFTER it detects IT. However when scientists or People Invent/Make something they make sure the Properties/Laws of that thing would be able to function at the desired Level. So, for Nature to Function at the desired Parameters it would first need to have it's Laws/Properties set in place before hand. Which is Evidence for an Active Entity that has Consciously and Willingly SET in Place these Laws/Parameters. That is the Definition of God.

[@basedmuslimbooks]

2:14:30 leave emotions out of it, If he believes that something was always there - what was the mechanism that ignited the big bang at that specific time? Why 14 billion years ago and not now or some other time? If there needs to be an explanation then it has a cause. And that cause had free will to bring about the universe.

[@basedmuslimbooks]

2:12:00 where did the law come from .. did it come before the magical fields? he's just putting yet another term at N0-1 position of infinite regress ..

[@basedmuslimbooks]

2:54:30 so a concept gave birth to a son that become this man's father

[@AyubKhan-md4km]

The arguments brought forward against Allah (SWT) are so beautifully and simply answered in the Holy Quran, SubhaanAllah! Truly the Holy Quran appeals to true intellect and rationality, which cannot be claimed by those who argue against Allah (SWT) and the Quran. One can see how stunted in intellect and rationality these non believers are

[@mrbwatson8081]

“The Quran appeals to true intellect and rationality “ 🤔 Jesus will one day lead a prayer in Mecca … is that a rational…? ❤

[@AyubKhan-md4km]

@@mrbwatson8081 absolutely

[@mrbwatson8081]

@@AyubKhan-md4km “rational”….. based on or in accordance with reason or logic. “Fantasy”….. the faculty or activity of imagining impossible or improbable things. Jesus will come back and lead a prayer in Mecca now is that rational or FANTASY ? Why do people lie to themselveS?

[@Toronado2]

​ @Mr B Watson Is that so difficult to rationalize?

[@AyubKhan-md4km]

@@mrbwatson8081 don't get so emotionally charged! There is a logical approach that one needs to adopt. Once you keep your emotions aside youll realise that following the truth (Islam) would be what Gods messenger would follow. And then like how the penny drops, you'll understand how rational it is to have the understanding that more than a billion people hold about the return of the Massiah

[@basedmuslimbooks]

25:55 Consciousness is True. But there's no empirical data for it. Therefore empirical data is not necessary (!) for Truth.

[@taimur74]

Timothy accepted Islam MashAllah

[@MsMylifeIsgood]

That's like Christians signing in the church

[@johnzuma4688]

The Gesenius Hebrew lexicon is more than 200 years old. strange that today anyone still uses it.

[@EpikMunk]

The English alphabet is over 1000 years old yet we still use it today. If your argument is that it's strange we still use something because it's old, then your argument is a stupid one.

[@johnzuma4688]

@@EpikMunk My friend, you really compare a Hebrew lexicon with the English alphabet? The alphabet has not changed, but there are much better and more comprehensive Hebrew Lexicons available today. So why would someone use a 200 year old Lexicon when there are better one available today unless they are dishonest?

[@EpikMunk]

@@johnzuma4688 My friend, you seemed to have missed the point. Your argument was that the hebrew lexicon was old so it's strange why it's still being used. Something being old doesn't mean it's not a valid source of information. Someone using one particular lexicon doesn't mean they can't use others as well, you seem to be under the impression a person can only use one at a time. You just claimed the alphabet has not changed, are you sure about that? You want to stick to that claim or take it back? Now your argument is, why use a 200 year old lexicon when there are better ones available today. Well, why use the English alphabet when there are other alphabets that are better, are much more comprehensive, richer in words and meanings etc etc. Your original argument was silly and now it's followed by another silly argument 🤷.

[@johnzuma4688]

@@EpikMunk You say >> Something being old doesn't mean it's not a valid source of information. > Someone using one particular lexicon doesn't mean they can't use others as well, you seem to be under the impression a person can only use one at a time. > why use the English alphabet when there are other alphabets that are better,

[@EpikMunk]

@@johnzuma4688 Son, your entire argument was refuted with the statement: something being old doesn't mean it's not a valid source of information, that's the only argument needed. You haven't provided an argument against it, in fact you've now also agreed with it. If it's a valid source to refer to, then it doesn't matter if it's 200 years or 1000 years, it's valid to use, therefore you don't have any valid argument. Since you can't refute that statement and can't back up your claim that the alphabet hasn't changed, let's see if you can back up this new claim you made that I am the one who said it the alphabet hasn't changed. Go ahead and quote from my previous comments where I said the alphabet hasn't changed, just a simple quote would do thanks.

[@islanmohamed390]

Quran or black hajr aren’t the only things that will talk and testify in hereafter but also the arms and skin of disbelievers will testify against them. That shows us things that will talk are not necessarily gods

[@Just_logic]

Timothy: we’re those claims enough to say “I am rejecting Islam”? Non of those are core issues in theology.

[@madiel-ziab605]

People come to argue not to learn. They have closed eyes and ears when they talk. Bad raised people who interrupt all the time

[@esrefcelebi]

There's nothing wrong about arguing, and this stream is not for preaching anyway. Panelists are challenging them to justify their beliefs and to falsify what panelists claim. So that's what it is all about. And panelists do not complain that guests are arguing, they have a minimal expectation from guests and it is consistency.

[@tenzek4635]

2:06:40 It's a fact that it's impossible to model the decay of a single atom because the event is truly random. It's not something we don't understand and might later, but truly random things are, by definition, impossible to predict. Many truly random events taken together can be analyzed statistically. Averages can be calculated and such, but a single event is actually impossible to calculate or predict. Here is an easy way to understand it. Suppose we roll a die that can roll any number on the real number line. The average roll is zero, because there is an equal weighting to any possible result, and the possible results are balanced on either side of zero. There is absolutely no way to predict the result of any individual roll, because every possible number on the real number line has an equal chance of appearing. Both facts are true because the event is truly random. There is no greater understanding possible to solve the problem. Why this is important conceptually is that to goes toward the discussion of whether or not there is a dependency on something else. There is no connection between states of a quantum field because it is truly random. There is no way to apply the concept of a regress, because there is no connection between any potential states of the field. You're using logic based on premises that rely on your understanding. That understanding has no application to what you are discussing, so you're making useless assertions of fact that don't connect to the subject. That said, my point is discussing flaws the logic being used to support the argument. I do not agree with the viewpoint of the speaker naming himself Naturalist that the quantum field is, in fact, the source physical existence, but I do take it as one of many possibilities. Of course, some concept of a god is also a possibility. The issue for me is, having no way to examine or distinguish between various possibilities, how do we arrive at a conclusion? How could I accept the idea of a god and reject other potential answers while remaining logically consistent with my own beliefs?

[@esrefcelebi]

Brother, you don't arrive a conclusion at the point of choice that you mention. One actully reaches to the conclusion by looking after the consequences and ramifications of that option, check whether it holds itself upon further questioning, whether it sustains its reliability. One the most important points is to balance analytical and intuitive thinking. We have undeniably present intuition for "purpose". Although intuition, let alone individual intuition, is not per se a measure for the truth, the mind reaches to satisfaction mostly when the intuition and analytical assessment marry up. When they don't, we go back and check either to conclude that the intuition was false or the analytical assessment had flaws. Among those potential answers you mention, the notion of a creator God is the only option that abides by that intuition of purposefullness. Personally for me, the vast difference of naturalist perception when assessing an archeological artefact vs assessing the galaxies, stars or anything else on earth, has always been a mystery. When an archeologist encounters a rather simple stone with scratches and different shapes on it, from that simple sign one is able to derive that it was shaped by an intelligent being to serve a certain purpose - an axe, an arrow, part of a sort of knife that was broken into pieces etc. On the other hand, we look at the complex architecture of the brain let's say - ok forget the brain, let's make it urinary bladder; how come we tend to think otherwise.

[@tenzek4635]

@@esrefcelebi Your analysis will always "marry up" with your intuition if you use your intuition to decide what facts are true as a foundation. It doesn't take much honest analysis to realize that you need a stronger foundation than faith in what you've decided sounds right to you on a personal level. My point was the choice that I mentioned would be contradictory; and therefore, the wrong approach. Of course, that means I understand that's not how we reach a conclusion. If we're in agreement, then you should be able to understand why telling me what choice you've decided on doesn't mean anything.

[@esrefcelebi]

I do understand your point by which you say, me putting an intuitive presupposition (i.e purpose) into the equation before I start reasoning. You suppose that it has the potential to manipulate my downstream critique. However, I assert that it is the only way out to proceed further. Take that données and move along to see what comes out. Can you disprove it after you hypothesize FOR it; and can you prove it after you hypothesize AGAINST it. Exactly here is where you'd need critical reasoning. Having said that, I honestly do not think that making this intuitive contrast by bringing 'purpose' in skews the downstream reasoning in favour of god. Because although the 'will' implies a purpose, it doesn't necessitate it and thus does not diminish the room required for an unbiased reasoning.

[@tenzek4635]

@@esrefcelebi If the only way to proceed in your view is to make something up and go with it to arrive at the conclusion you want, I hope you can at least understand why I don't follow along with the conclusion. I am not required to accept your imagination as fact, nor do I feel any responsibility to attempt a proof against your imagination. Arguing rationally against a fantasy with nothing supporting it outside of what you've made up doesn't seem productive to me.

[@esrefcelebi]

@@tenzek4635 I don't make it up brother :) We both know that the difference/contrast is there. Whether you have or haven't an "external" reason/entity that matches to your taste, the difference will remain there: one is with a purpose, one without a purpose. As I said earlier, it is up to you what to do with that difference: you may take it as a fact and move, you may deny they are difference and stall, you may take it as a slippery ground and subject it to harsh critique, you may choose to do nothing at all even though it makes your whole point useless in the first place, I don't really care. my belief in truth doesn't have anything to do with you at all :) But I presume none brings such profound point as yours only for vain.

[@mohammednasirmiah7715]

Naturalist was on Hamza channel and got annihilated

[@ERChris17]

“Ummmmmmm” -Timothy

[@lastword8783]

Watson needs to calm down and breaaathe lol

[@arabianknight0000]

Trevor is a Richard head

[@razieljohnson5445]

I think Mr. B Watson was trying to get help in getting back to the path. Something or someone caused him to lose his faith. He's now been trying to get back but hubris and ego is his barrier. Asking someone like that to prove if they exist is not the best technique, but I'm not as learned as you guys. Just my opinion.

[@putnicesaquranom]

Pitty lies by that Tim person, how can u but despise the insincerity of his ‘doubts’.

[@YahyaibnZaqariah]

Mr.B Watson getting way too emotional when he has nothing to add to move his argument forward🤦🏻‍♂️

[@mayurdotca]

Dawah Team, in future please dont have talks with anyone in a car. There's lots of cases of people live streaming and getting into accidents because they were distracted

[@JA-jh5gr]

Beautiful 🎤💥 2:30:00 they were so many Trevor tried to use the panels arguments against them but even then Alhamdu lillah they turned it back to him. I don't know what's your emotional reason but bring it forward it got nothing to do with science or logic or reason because even after the panel n many others have shown u still reject with the grounding. U have emotional reason for rejecting the Almighty be man enough to admit. This is what I think if I am wrong sorry if I have it wrong because ALLAH knows best.

[@ShadJoh]

I can’t understand why people would be stuck with some naturalistic theories/philosophies that don’t actually explain the origin of life, let alone intelligent design.

[@tawAAkul]

That Watson guy called hamzas den too and the result was the same. The guy is either disingenuous or very confused

[@realamg123]

Christians Jews & Atheists; Are you more knowledgeable in the Christians faith than all the Priests & church members & the Jewish Rabbis who reverted to Islam? Or more intellectual than all the professors & scientists who discovered the miracles of Quran & became Muslims?!

[@Hadirahman7]

This proves Dr Imrans point about Hajj being in Jewish history even more!!@ kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4fah4KLYsuUmKc

[@humeree]

Naturalist you are on your way to becoming a Muslim. Insha'Allah.

[@abumansaray7]

Mahesh has been on EFdawah twice and DawaWise twice. He had accepted that God exists. His only issue was God having a will. Now, he goes all the way back to the beginning again. The dude is a waste of time.

[@taimur74]

Yup Total waste of time

[@mrbwatson8081]

Does tomorrow exist..? Tomorrow exists as a CONCEPT. you think 💭 tomorrow is a rotation of the earth 🌍. THATS A 💭 CONCEPT. 🎉 soooo does tomorrow EXIST ? 🤔

[@Hashed_A]

Not right now. In fact, it will never be tommorow. In 24 hours, tommorow will be the next day. It’s a moving goalpost.

[@kamekameha721]

@@Hashed_A 🤔🤔🤔 So Which part of it Is the third part of the Night 🌃??? Someone lead me to this channel to ask me to expose your devilish cult 😁

[@Hashed_A]

@@kamekameha721 ? Which part of what is the third of the night? You said “it”, so I’m assuming that you’re talking about tommorow. And, frankly, you sound nonsensical. Give me a proper and grammatically correct question, then I’ll respond.

[@kamekameha721]

@@Hashed_A 👍👍👍 So When allah say third part of the night allah means tomorrow???? So tomorrow never comes 🤭

[@kamekameha721]

@@Hashed_A 😁😁😁 Abdul!!!! I'm just quoting your allah 😁😁😁 Are you trying to correct your allah??

[@ft7397]

Christian accusing someone of pagan rituals is funny

[@ahmedsiam3547]

Naturallst really thinks this universe started from nothing that is something 😂😂😂

[@saedkuku]

Matthew 24 is the end of Judea not the end of the world. Jesus did not call for Christianity, he was only calling for the Kingdom of Heaven, which is a testimony to the Gentiles, the sons of Ishmael He preached the advent of the Son of Man, Muhammad, who would bring this heavenly kingdom and the end of Judea (Judaism). He preached the destruction of the Temple and the end. of Judea ( Judaism) is not the end of the world so no more kingdom ( religion) in Israel Jesus considers Christianity illegal Matthew 24:5 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

[@IMHAMAD]

The naturalist has taken energy as his God, and that's the problem with atheists. They're willing to accept anything except Allah.

[@esrefcelebi]

It is the willpower which makes them uncomfortable. They are totally comfortable with anything that doesn't have a will/conscience/decision. For them it is "shirk". Own desire is the only god they'd submit, nothing else.

[@ft7397]

Watson sounds suspicious. Raised muslim been to haj and all

[@incineratorium]

Quran itself is the empirical evidence for God. The worlds are the empirical evidence for God. God already shown you himself in a way that are bearable to you. Why would God gives you something that you can't bear? Give other viable options. There isn't any.

[@KaisUK]

You need to organize how much time you spend with guests better. This is reminiscent of what we'd call the "Frank Show" where you'd spend too much time with him. Also Naturalist has been on before and still bringing the same old arguments. As Hamza would say this is the definition of Insanity. Asking the same questions on different platforms and expecting a different answer. One final thing it would have been great if you shared the Powerpoint presentation you were going through with Timothy (Islam vs Paganism) I think it was called. We Muslims would also love to read and seek knowledge so why only restrict the information to guests?

[@summer5145]

Dr Imran has gone over the hajj presentation before. See last week's stream where he presented some of it. Timothy came on to rebut it from last week but failed miserably.

[@yington]

What’s the point of hell?

[@eistudiesl7193]

Punishment

[@yington]

@@eistudiesl7193 Punish what?

[@eistudiesl7193]

@@yington anyone allah(swt) see fit to be punished

[@gamermikail007]

In the judgment day your eye will testify, similarly the stone will testify that u did hajj! That does not mean your eye has power and a god itself ! Come on bring something useful against Islam if u can ! 😂 these ppl

[@spiritzen]

Brothers it’s not appropriate for your share this if you find it revolution nor is it something to get likes and subscribers off. Sensationalism has become part of da’wah? I’m not defending her public talk (the advice isn’t wrong per se), I’m pointing out the need to capitalise on this sort of stuff.

[@badatme]

Timothy is an arrogant prat with spectacles that are way biased.

[@DavidJacobs14]

😂

[@DavidJacobs14]

Please explain my arrogance. I was open to being corrected and never mentioned any of my qualifications until asked. But it’s good to know that you are a good judge of character and judgmental on looks as well. Great attitude to show Christians open to learning about Islam. Bravo

[@tawAAkul]

You shouldn't name call @muhammada badat. No need for it and it's not the way. @Timothy Parry with respect I disagree with your approach fundamentally because you didn't say you stand to be corrected explicitly rather when presented with clear answers and the evidence you didn't accept it. Which is fine. But then you didn't then redact your accusations that the brothers were deliberately mis representing and deceiving. There was much information that you had little or no knowledge on so with respect who are you to judge their intentions?

[@m-ib4512]

Your behaviour is not very Islamic and does not reflect our prophet pbuh. If people have questions allow them to ask. What’s the problem? And off course due to Timothy’s background his thoughts would be biased. I do not see any arrogance. He listened to Dr. Imran clearing his misconception and accepted his answer. Imagine Muhammed pbuh spoke the same way you’re speaking to Umar ra!!! We wouldn’t have one of the greatest men of all time in Islam. Be respectful and reflect the teachings of your religion. May Allah give you hidaya

[@m-ib4512]

@@DavidJacobs14 His comment is out of ignorance and does not reflect Islam or the manners we are taught. I hope you keep searching and learning about Islam.

[@tiloshah4778]

Please Brothers, don't stop debating Christians on the Council of Jerusalem and why Paul abolished the law. This topic destroys Christianity

[@arabianknight0000]

wow!!! Mr B Watson left Islam because the Angel Jibreel didn't talk to him. That pretty much rivals any of the plethora of stupid things christians or atheists say. He is a bigger Richard Head than Trevor, if that's possible

[@mrbwatson8081]

Bro I left Islam because I grew up. To go through life not challenging you beliefs is a form of delusion or self deception. Lucky for me Islam was not the only influence in my life alhamdulilah :) Why should I believe Muhammad was in communication with an angel called Gabriel?Because my mum told me too? She used to always tell me paradise is under the feet of you mother. Should I just believe or should I question?

[@arabianknight0000]

@@mrbwatson8081 you haven't grown up at all. You've only deluded yourself. May Allah guide you back to the true path

[@mrbwatson8081]

That’s your perspective, but from my perspective “deluded “ is believing Jesus will come back ❤

[@arabianknight0000]

@@mrbwatson8081 so you believe that when you die there's nothing? Your consciousness just disintegrates into nothingness? That's so sad and illogical

[@mrbwatson8081]

@@arabianknight0000 I never said that, that’s your perspective. Your perspective is either Allah created you and Jesus will come back or there is nothing when you die… Notice that is a self imposed artificial limitation you take as REALITY…. Reality is NOT your perspective of it. You need to understand how to separate your perspective of reality and reality ITSELF. They are not the same thing but people can’t make that separation that’s why I sound mad to you:)

[@GG-gl3zx]

This naturalist actualky is confused he doesnt know what hes talking about.

[@putnicesaquranom]

When they died and realized muslims were right.

[@aishax01]

that "I exist" guy was insufferable...i had to skip

[@hungryhugo7400]

Too much philosophy...