The Original America First Movement | Shield of the Republic

[@arthurm4726]

The right wingers who don’t want to spend money abroad also don’t want to spend money at home. This renders their ‘let’s concentrate on domestic issues’ arguments as empty.

[@T-aka-T]

Excellent point. Same for abortion. About controlling women, not "saving babies". At its most crude, it's a "pump and dump" scheme. No interest whatsoever in the victims of its own behavior.

[@justiceforall6412]

More like they DON'T have the money period

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

Good point. They have gotten to the point where they think that bald faced lies are adequate talking points

[@vinista256]

Some of them think that less money spent abroad will mean more at home to make people’s lives better. The ones who are really pulling the strings just want to keep the wealth pump from the working class to the privileged class going.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@vinista256 That’s a nice idea, but I haven’t seen any action from these “domestic spending republicans”. Where are the bills? Are they being negotiated in committees and subcommittees? Where are the Republican policy debates on how to improve the lives of ordinary Americans? If evidence of an actual set of policies is in evidence, I’ve missed seeing it. I think if Mike Johnson is bold, he could solve a lot of problems in vocational education and worker training. He could draw on support from both the conference and the caucus. He could get the president on board by throwing him some loan forgiveness dough. Thats just an example.

[@guyrose6602]

Today's movement is not "America First", it's "Trump First and Only". At the expense of America.

[@Gnofg]

I live in Atlanta. The south has always been an aristocratic society.

[@debrasmith4675]

BRAVO! Invest in educating good hearted Americans. The rewards of it will be monumental!

[@denniskrust2137]

The Nazi-supporting conservatives of the WW1 and WW2 eras are the equivalent of the Russia-supporting conservatives of today. I voted conservative for most of my adult life, while recognizing the radical fringe voting for the same party I did. Then the fringe became the center and I left.

[@burntorangehorn]

Same. I left in February of 2000, but whether people left over Nixon, Trump, or anywhere between the two, we're the coalition of liberal democracy now.

[@glennmorgan4197]

Welcome to the compassion of liberalism. 😊

[@jandunn169]

The fringes of both parties can be unreasonable and It is time for people who value Our Constitution and our Democratic republic to stand up for the United States. Thank you

[@denniskrust2137]

@@jandunn169 Very true. When I was young, I knew the fringe of the GOP was contained and therefore my concern was the far left. However, that GOP fringe is now the actual GOP and therefore much more dangerous than the far left, which is still just the far left. The far right now controls the Republican Party.

[@verityviolet]

Didn’t Rachel Maddow make a great series on this fascist loving period in GOP history? You folks should listen to it.

[@ALT-vz3jn]

Yes. She’s really a formidable journalist. Always worth listening to.

[@glennmorgan4197]

I did, and it was spectacular. It's definitely a must listen to, if you want to speak intelligently on the subject. 😊

[@shelleydally25]

Oh surely they have listened!!

[@artemisia1976]

It's not reasonable to blame the left for what's happening now. From a left wing perspective it starts to sound like you're saying "It's your fault we tied ourselves to a fascist criminal." It's scary that apparently some people respond to the left that way. I grew up in the 80s and 90s with an extremely neutered left wing. I've been ready for a long time to see the left get up off the mat and fight. There are people on the left who say things that aren't okay and they should be called out, but on a basic, human level there was no excuse to inflict a cruel, abusive man like Donald Trump on America.

[@malcolmbliss777]

There hasn't been a "Left" in America, but especially in the Democrat Party, in over 100 yrs.

[@RobBCactive]

Clinton didn't cause the insanity of George Dubya Republicanism which relied on "truthiness" and climate change denialism. Nor was Obama at fault for the racist backlash, yet it was a trigger. There were vile far right racist people pushing their politics in the south when Reagan was still in office. Listening I think they were talking almost always about the extreme left as in Stalinist communists, the college campus reporting sensationalises, but Israel's longstanding apartheid policies and illegal settlements means the left in the US see a different, more sympathetic perspective, so it's being tarred with the same brush. If you haven't seen them Timothy Snyder Speaks has great videos on Oligarchy and Sadopopulism, moderate right wing voices don't really have a credible agenda, more corporate power and concentration of wealth with more Reaganite trickle up economics makes about as much sense as the Trump First platform.

[@clayfoster8234]

Beautifully said!

[@burntorangehorn]

Obama had the temerity to be black, and Trump is their retribution for that.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

lol, I thought you were going to say “no excuse to inflict a cruel abusive man like Netanyahu on the Palestinians”. 😂 In either case you have no argument from me. I’ll spare you all my thought about Israel’s right to exist and defend itself (yes and yes). But I have been seeing a lot of antisemitism from the educated (supposedly) progressives in their political arguments against Israel. It’s quite sad to see them try to wield Marxist analytical frameworks to analyze recent history and current events WITHOUT studying any of the history or having any in-depth knowledge of current events. Which is a long winded way to say anyone who equates Zionism with colonialism is engaging in antisemitic ideas. They’re doing so either as useful idiots hindered by too little knowledge (and too much enthusiasm) or they are bad actors spreading disinformation intentionally. Other than that, I’m all for the student protests demanding a cease fire AND release of the hostages.

[@DanCasciano]

I thoroughly enjoyed this interview with Jacob and am in the process of purchasing his book to learn more about the isolationists view during the 30s and 40s. Thanks for this.

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

The entire word is a fallacy

[@MTheory77]

The left in America is not antisemitic; protesting the actions of the far right wing government of Israel, is not antisemitic! It's antisemitic to equate Israel's government with Jewish people.

[@ELL289]

Not sure that’s true across the board. Protesting Netanyahu’s right wing policies, especially Gaza, is one thing. But some of the protestors are attacking Jewish students and many are using antisemitic hate speech, which is not just against the current Israeli government. There are several different factions at play here. Some are Muslim extremists. Some are just anarchists.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Let me lay something on you. Making the argument that Zionism is European colonialism is an anti-Semitic idea. The argument that Israel is a European colony is anti-Semitic. Both arguments are ahistorical. They are false arguments supported by a facile and false understanding of history. I protest the Netanyahu government. I protest the IDF going to far whine not doing enough to expedite humanitarian aid. I protest Hamas choosing urban Gaza as the battlefield. I demand both a release of hostages and a ceasefire. But in not going to listen to idiotic arguments about Israel not having the right to exist because it’s “settler colonialism”. If anyone wants to make those arguments, they better have a firm grasp on 2000 years of Jewish history.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@ELL289 I think there are (100% legal) pro Hamas groups spreading disinformation, and there are lightweight academics applying their “historical analysis” without knowing jack squat about the history. If you’re going to do Marx stuff, do it right.

[@burntorangehorn]

Some pretty large protests are chanting things like "from the river to the sea" (a reference to exterminating Israel) and "burn Tel Aviv to the ground." Instead of being like those who found themselves demonstrating alongside nazis in Charlottesville, the earnestly concerned protesters over Gaza need to denounce and expel such factions from their ranks.

[@ALT-vz3jn]

@@ELL289I haven’t heard of students attacking Jewish people, and I’ve been following the protests pretty closely. Methinks you’re inventing stuff to ‘prove’ a point.

[@unfixablegop]

I had no idea that Mencken was such a fool. I have to admit that whenever I came across a Mencken quote I thought it was pretty funny and clever. Knowing that he despised democracy does make them sound different. examples: "On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." or "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." Other quotes are problematic on their face though: "Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage." I only came across than one right now when I explicitly looked for Mencken quotes. Still, overall I find it disturbing that I thought highly of such an idiot.

[@RobBCactive]

Forgive yourself, they look amusingly absurd a making fun of power and common assumptions. After all Churchill said, "democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other forms that have been tried from time to time" but didn't really say "the best argument against Democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter", both witty and admitting imperfection.

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

Those are easily interpreted in whatever way you agree with

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Some of his political analysis is cutting and devastatingly funny. I used to excuse his racism as being something of the times in which he wrote, but eventually the evidence against him was too much. He’s someone I might still enjoy reading, but I find it harder to cite or quote him without feeling queasy. Still, it’s hard not love, “Democracy is the idea that the common people should get what they want, good and hard.”

[@glennmorgan4197]

Now you know how the Haley voters feel. 😊

[@Liberal.Linda.]

​@@letsRegulateSociopathsThat is the way to spot a manipulator who wants people to agree with them, but doesn't want to say the quiet part out loud. Fascists, racists, sexists, narcisissts, abusers of all types - every one is so good at phrasing things like that. Just look at the last focus group podcast from Sarah - two women were die-hard Haley voters because of Haley's stance on abortion, yet one was extremely pro-choice and the other was vehemently anti. Yeah.

[@diegotomasarene-morley7249]

Great episode. Appreciate the relevance of Buckley. Complicated important person.

[@shang0h]

I appreciate the hosts' recognition of fascism as a revolutionary ideology distinct from conservatism (and hope they could identify the same about authoritarian communism worship/tankies as being a sort of red fascism rather than "the left"), and I think that's the proposition around which US politics have been reshaped: accelerationism vs incrementalism. There's an alliance of pro-Trump/anti-Biden combining all of the worst people: those at 1/6, charlottesville, and the pro-Hamas subset of protesters all in the same big tent, striving for a revolutionary overhaul of the structure of America, and then a pro-Biden/anti-Trump alliance of Democrats and what would formerly be McCain/Romney Republicans. For moderates it's actually sort of an amazing renaissance time of unity in many respects, but it also feels like an embattled island surrounded by anti-democratic forces both inside the US and abroad.

[@EmiSuperTrans71]

Really enjoyed this chat 👏👏

[@sethmann6397]

Other than the tariffs, what non-conservative policy position does the Dumbald hold? You can't just say "I'm a conservative and I'm a good person. Therefore, Trump can't be like me."

[@WilliesGarden]

In Ga they're trying to put America First on our car tags

[@kateapet]

Great discussion- thank you.

[@SW-lw6mt]

When enough people forget, history does repeat itself.

[@FemFlorida]

What would have happened if we had held congressional representatives who were complicit in the plot in a court of law and pay consequences

[@enzorocha2977]

Before the question was asked, I, too, sat on the fence whether I could separate the art from the artist; I'm afraid I could not. Especially when Mr. Heilbrunn's answer all but convinced me Mencken's vitriol and ogreish nature was woven through the bone, and not because it was still du jour back then to hold on to those beliefs or a product of the zeitgeist. Sad.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Some people change for the better, so e change for the worst. His early political reporting was scathing and it was top notch. But the evidence that he was or became a toxic pos becomes insurmountable. I’ve got a collected volume of his writing on the shelf. Maybe someday I’ll pick up up to enjoy his wit, but the idea of it makes me queasy.

[@muuuuuud]

Its the first time I have the great pleasure of listening to you three, while i highly respect your obvious deep understanding of the political events and history, there seems to be a blind area in your approach, the morphological side of things, a bit more rooted in the realism of our situation actually explains very well our current predicament. The human brain hasn't changed much in the past 10 000 years. The bad actors of today are basically the same as thousands of years back, only the context, the means and technologies change. The same old primitive tools are being used today as they've been used throughout human history by the bad actors. Fear, anger, hate disgust are still the main tools trump uses as well as offering the "novelty" of breaking the social contract, which his supporters and enablers readily accepted as a modus operandi. Despite our great steps philosophically and economically, politically, on the actual morphological side of things, things have not changed much, if at all.

[@justinlinnane8043]

Good conversation and one that most Americans would find incomprehensible . The prevailing wisdom fed to them constantly is of a country with an almost unblemished record of siding with the angels !! 🤣🤣🤣 A country of immense self delusion

[@anothercitizen4867]

And cultish tRump delusion that at best can only result in cognitive dissonance

[@littlerainyone]

According to ChatGPT, it was not Roger Kimball who referred to Trump as "Hitler in a beer hall" but David Brooks in a NYT column published on Feb. 29, 2016. If Roger Kimball actually used that way of describing Trump, perhaps even quoting David Brooks or vice versa, please provide the reference.

[@glennmorgan4197]

13:05 They don't conserve anything, not money or resources or even the planet. 😢😮🤬

[@July41776DedicatedtoTheProposi]

American conservatism, if it could be called that, was supposed to be based on Burkean tradition; now the Republican Party’s embrace of southern fascist aristocracy and now the fascist Russian Ivan Ilyin, who live in Nazi Germany in the 1930s, through 1953, who promoted a Russian version of Nazism, aligns itself Putin’s attack on the western democracy, embrace of Christian Nationalism, and anti-gay and anti-jewish scape gloating. Conservative Burkeans have been transformed into Bolsheviks, one leader with an army of Chetnik’s who murder at well. My heroes have always been 1. Lincoln, 2. FDR!

[@NotShowingOff]

Conservatives want to progress with caution. If they want to move backward, they are the radical right

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Sort of. You’re describing Burkean conservatism. Burke saw the radical excesses of the French Revolution (which led to a belligerent authoritarian dictatorship). He wasn’t against reform, he was troubled by radical reform. Taking a step back isn’t by itself reactionary or radical. Sometimes a seemingly good idea doesn’t work in practice, so you return to a more traditional way of doing things. Or you find a new way to use a good tradition. But I think you were pointing out that Burkean conservatism is a good counterbalance to exuberant liberals. I couldn’t agree with you more. Viva Burke!

[@burntorangehorn]

@@MarcosElMalo2 Yep, we need a healthy Burkean conservatism to moderate the tendency of well-meaning progressives to get carried away. It's unfortunate that the moderating (not necessarily moderate) faction has given way to paleoconservatives/reactionaries.

[@burntorangehorn]

Isn't "radical right" an oxymoron? The backward right is reactionary.

[@TheSilverScreenSurfer]

HL Menken also wrote in praise of the Confederacy, not because he supported slavery, he did not, because he insisted that the Southern aristocracy were enlightened, honorable gentlemen and superior to democracy.

[@joanfregapane8683]

So he supported the aristocratic society that was built on the institution of slavery? And somehow he felt that put him at a remove from the institution itself? Apparently then he was self delusional.

[@YaleRoth]

Democratic opposition to the strongman

[@VladimirPutin-p3t]

It is intellectually lazy to dismiss the current wave of anti nettanyahu protests as "antisemitism" it is not and you lessen your credibility playing that card.

[@malcolmbliss777]

This jew despises Netanyahu and the genocide being committed by Israel.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@malcolmbliss777 Some on the left are arguing that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist, that it’s a European colony imposed in the “indigenous” Palestinians. It’s based on pure ignorance of Jewish history. Maybe the anti-semites are noisier so I notice them more. Israel has a right to exist. The Palestinians have a right to their own state, regardless of indigeneity or lack of it. (I realize the two state solution is a total fantasy at this point.) If you are a Jew, why do you misuse the word genocide?

[@mattgibson6144]

​@@MarcosElMalo2"It's based on pure ignorance of Jewish history". Not sure if you have an alternate facts view of history or are willfully twisting it. Zionists were offered uninhabited land in Uganda by the British in the early 1900's for the creation of a Jewish state, but the leaders of the Zionists rejected the offer. Accepting that offer would have resulted in zero people being displaced from lands they had inhabited for generations. Instead the Zionists had their eye on the populated area of Palestine, which also holds highly important holy sites of the 3 Abrahamic religions. What could possibly go wrong with that choice? Now I know you will return serve saying that Palestine historically is a Jewish homeland, which is exactly the same argument every human on the planet can use to lay claim to Africa as our historical homeland. There were many different tribes of man living in the area known as Palestine thousands of years ago, and the idea that there was a Jewish state at that time is Zionist fiction. Jews are followers of a religion, not a racial grouping of mankind. If you did DNA tests of those who identify as Jewish, their profiles would be as varied as those who identify as Christian or Muslim. As for your comment on genocide, perhaps you need to do some historical homework there as well & read the 1948 Genocide Convention & how it defines the word. It's important reading as the Convention was instituted in the hopes that the world would never again allow the horrors that the Nazis committed. True Antisemitism is as vile as any bigoted or racist vilification, but criticism of the actions of the Israeli state going back decades now is NOT Antisemitism. Sadly that word is losing its meaning due to being thrown around as a catch-all shield to deflect criticism.

[@burntorangehorn]

It is intellectually lazy to call it a "current wave of anti nettanyahu protests," is it not? When rallies are chanting things like "from the river to the sea" and "burn Tel Aviv to the ground," they're not talking about the dictator; they're talking about actual ethnic cleansing.

[@mattgibson6144]

@@burntorangehorn So it's ok for the likes of Netanyahu, Ben Gvir & other despots in the Israeli government to use language like that about Palestinians, but when used in return it's Antisemitism? Sure, that seems fair & balanced. How about both sides cut out the inhumane language, or is your view that Israeli leadership has the right idea about Palestinians? Never seems to be Israel supporters who call out what their leaders say, or decry the videos the IDF soldiers put online.

[@sunbrown8536]

guess what? russia also has putin first policy. north korea has the kim family first policy. so was premodern japan...examples of me-me-me first countries all relegated to the degeneracy of self isolation and spiral into decrepitude until the "strongman" went away and the country still struggling to recover...

[@PeaceProfit]

#MAGA is being forced to accept U.S. founding values, rights, policies and laws that empower a more perfect union for all its citizens. 😎🇺🇸😎

[@richardoldfield6714]

The manifesto of the British Union of Fascists, founded in 1932 by Oswald Mosley, was officially titled ‘Britain First’. This pre-dates the first usage of 'America First' in the USA ... and so, I would guess, was copied and adapted from Mosely, who opposed Britain's declaration of war against Nazi Germany,

[@michelebliss5431]

Thank you for such an insightful discussion.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

I’m digging Edelman and Cohen. Great podcastvideothing.

[@drumcircler]

Hatred politics has been effective for millennia. Fear works.

[@jakelong6860]

Birth of a Nation.

[@GirmaKassa-ip7ht]

Your question that whether the radical right was strong all along can be answered by looking into America’s original sin, the nature of its establishment. That tells us that progressivism is not baked in the US body politic and it requires constant vigilance and maintenance to protect America from sliding into Fascism which is usually the destiny of empires.

[@gcs7817]

The GQP were ok with dictators as long as they were right wing. They’re such hypocrites. They looked the other way on apartheid in South Africa

[@sharonhearne5014]

Trump has come into power and prominence not as an intellectual - as was Buckley - but as a perceived hero of Capitalism in America. In truth he capitalized on his father’s great wealth to promote himself as a man who was ‘more than the sum of his parts’ by virtue of his partnership with and inheritor of his father’s vast wealth. He is essentially a promoter but the Republican Party felt he was visible and prominent enough to put forward as a political leader due to his physical presence and name recognition. It grieves me to see him compared to people with skills Trump could never manage or accomplish because, in my opinion Trump is a scam foisted on the American public in a bid for GOP dominance ‘at all costs’. Trump is a bully who has thrived off his father’s wealth and reputation.

[@ELL289]

Buckley wasn’t someone to admire, in my opinion.

[@SurrenderPink]

“No true individual has existed yet, able to live, able to die. Only diseased, tragic, or dismal and ludicrous fools who sometimes hoped to achieve some ideal by fiat, by their great desire for it. But usually by bullying all mankind into believing them.”

[@evysingstad5277]

Isn’t it about the rich first?

[@mikegiammaria]

Fascism is revolutionary rather than conservative?

[@MarcosElMalo2]

It is NOT conservative.

[@burntorangehorn]

@MarcosElMalo2 It is indeed conservative-paleoconservative, to be more specific. It embraces social stratification, militancy, religious monoculturalism, traditionalism, and other non-egalitarian ideals. The semantic issue is with the confusion, intermingling, or even conflating of conservatism with classical liberalism.

[@OldSchoolSk8ermatt]

You can argue about the “true definition” of conservative or republican. But once the overwhelming majority jumps onto it, the thing becomes whatever they support

[@kaitykaity]

Did you mention Smedley Butler and the coup attempt/plan by the American Nazis and I missed it?

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

He did mention father Coughlin .. who was the antagonist of that story

[@kaitykaity]

@@letsRegulateSociopaths - more emphasis on “that story” was warranted given the criminals involved got off scot-free.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@kaitykaityI guess you should read the book! 😅

[@kaitykaity]

@@MarcosElMalo2 - it’s on my hold list. In the meantime these supposed experts should stop with the false advertising.

[@paulfoley9370]

The party of Lincoln isn't the party of Reagan. Their stances and policies were very different.

[@martinsweeney7633]

I agree. Do you agree that the Party of Trump isn't the party of Lincoln nor the party of Reagan?

[@ma4450]

@@martinsweeney7633 The Party of Trump is the Party of John Wilkes Booth.

[@gracelloyd3758]

16:47 “Something else going on here…” (it’s white supremacy lol)

[@sethmann6397]

Conservatives as cranks? Days ending in y? Hours ending in o'clock?

[@Omoloya1]

Can we mention anti-Blackness at all? At what point do we *join up and see our history together and win?

[@nnonotnow]

What about what about what about what about what about what about? What about what about? That was then this is now

[@animagu5of653]

I hate to assume that Elliot is misinformed about the antisemitic messaging coming from the right. Maybe he just doesn’t claim the “right” that it’s coming from as THE Right?

[@junanougues]

Everybody underestimates what unrelenting incredibly hard work democracy needs to be to stay healthy and continue moving forward. At the end of the day, though, we talking about views on voting. Those for and against it, period. Running on a spectrum on the right, from conservatives against it, to the KKK and the damn Nazis. The rest is blah, blah, blah. Not even Socrates or Plato were deep thinkers about power, but partisan anti-democratic agitators for authoritarian forms of government. Same here. Because only "those who know should rule", Lol. Not a serious intellectual position.

[@ttacking_you]

Eliot's use of "triggered" reminds me of those subhuman trumpists i put in place on the daily! He should try "predicated" or "attributes" or something?

[@sethmann6397]

The American left "nominally" breaks with Stalin. Right. At one point they were 100% Stalin. Lol. Loved Mao 100% in the '60s. Lol.

[@belindaevans6915]

Snobs

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Slob