The Original Plans for The Avengers

[@matrix-5466]

I always thought Red Skull was underused in the MCU. Having him as an Avengers villain would have been great!

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

As did I. I thought he would play a pivotal role in Endgame and maybe have another showdown with Cap (and maybe even his demise).

[@velmad3894]

Fr, I almost forgot about him and was a bit confused during Endgame

[@ZAYA.21]

He also could’ve been in winter soldier.

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

​@@ZAYA.21well believe it or not, the Robert Redford character in the comics is actually revealed to be either the Red Skull in disguise or a secondary version of Red Skull ( an offspring or fanatic follower). Something cool like that.

[@TypicalPlayer21]

Every captain america villain is underused , crossbones he appears then dies 3 minute later , same thing for zola , zemo is the only one used to its full potential

[@nicksorenson940]

One thing that worked out with Loki ending up as the main antagonist of the first Avengers movie is that it was very true to the comics, as he was also the first villain The Avengers faced in the first issue of their original comic as well.

[@leonardobraynen1524]

I always thought that it was the idea.

[@herowither12354]

Same with Vulture as Spider-Man's first supervillain.

[@freemakerthings4518]

@@herowither12354technically it’s Chameleon

[@ojusticeiro9395]

Kang?

[@neilgodwin6531]

​@@ojusticeiro9395Wash your mouth out! 😂

[@ZAYA.21]

Red Skull should’ve been used more in the MCU.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Agreed!

[@srstriker6420]

Along with a few others like have the Masters of evil

[@brainlock72]

Not for this one. It had to be Loki assembling the team just like in the comics. I still wish they had kept Wasp, tho. We needed more Girl Power than just Nat and Maria Hill. Just slip in Hank and Janet as SHIELD Agents, or “on call” to SHIELD.

[@travismiddleton8218]

100%

[@zacharyjochumsen9677]

​@@Bulletsandblockbusterswoud younever bevelling to di video on Wes cravens drcs atta ge ever since it kind of hsloween season niw

[@stsolomon618]

I remember seeing The Avengers in theater, what a experience.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

That entire third act was amazing

[@stsolomon618]

​@@Bulletsandblockbusters I agree

[@ZAYA.21]

😂 I saw the day it came out. I remember I was in 2nd grade and I couldn’t think about anything else the whole week.

[@stsolomon618]

​@ZAYA.21 cool I was in the 7th grade.

[@tyrannozilla]

The entire audience in my theater cheered and gave a standing ovation when Hulk threw around Loki.

[@Kalel2.0]

Honestly seeing both Janet Van Dynes Wasp and Hank Pyms Ant Man be founding members like in the comic's would've been so cool to watch

[@dzakkyalexander7926]

Yeah, I think it would be cool if that happened. I hope it happens after Avengers secret wars, because the mcu will be rebooted after secret wars. So there will definitely be a recasting of the founding members of the Avengers, and I hope it's the same as in the comics

[@Orion-n6k]

Atleast we have Avengers: EMH

[@JohnDman2020]

​@@Orion-n6kI hope it's has LGBTQ avengers

[@SecretMagician]

​@@Orion-n6kits been 13 years since it ended. We really should petition for it to come back like X-Men '97. #bringbackavengersearthsmighiestheroes

[@PedroLucas-mg5je]

If this happened, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie would be the perfect actors for Hank and Janet!

[@bqw2094]

Godammit , Edward Norton hulk , ant man and wasp as members , and red skull as the main villain , I envy the people in the alternate dimension that gets that movie .

[@ignaciobejar1637]

Wow

[@emiliorodarte4408]

But still the end product was great at its time

[@stellviahohenheim]

Edward Norton moving like The Rock even before The Rock. Both act like they're the sole reason any movie is successful

[@keviscool]

What if in the timeline where that exists the movie flops because it sucks because they couldn’t make it work? I prefer the version we got aka our timeline

[@bqw2094]

@@keviscool ya know what I'm ok with that , I say this as someone who is fed up with live action superhero movies , if the avengers had flop , maybe they would have looked towards animation more for money .

[@PredsjednikGustavo._]

Also Thanos's apperance in the post credit scene was simply because Whedon liked the character and wanted to reveal a mastermind behind it all and so he chose Thanos without any plan for the future, not to mention Kree and Skrulls were also considered as goon army in the end but they chose Chitauri from the Ultimate universe

[@ii-mp1sp]

By the way, I heard that initially they wanted to make Thanos the bad guy in the sequel.

[@PredsjednikGustavo._]

@@ii-mp1sp i don't think so but I i know he was planned to be a villain in first Guardians movie

[@Latitz]

@@ii-mp1sp I was even expecting that but it was smart move to make him endgame villain. Only problem i had with Thanos in Infinity War and Endgame is that they made him too human. In his earlier appereances he had glowing eyes and more purple skin which was more cosmic looking in my opinion.

[@TheRealSoftR]

@@ii-mp1spimagine a world where thanos took up the second movie and the ultron took up the third and fourth

[@redshot5403]

@@TheRealSoftRthat to me makes me glad that ultron was the second villain, he’s a world threat, though he should have been used more. Thanos being the last villain made perfect sense given his universal threat

[@raulcruz716]

I can understand the concept of not wanting to bog the movie down with introducing a new character like the Wasp. They were five movies into it already and the fans wanted Marvel to finally cut loose.

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

But introducing Hawkeye is fine I guess

[@blackdragon6]

​@@TheN1ghtwalkerright 😂

[@raulcruz716]

@@TheN1ghtwalker he was already introduced in Thor. And sadly he was the one OG member that did get shoehorned in there which does help prove my point. After the post credit scene in IRON MAN teasing the Avengers and the four other movies that followed the audience was already wanting to get to the team up movie without the need of too much plot getting in the way, as Joe Bob Briggs was so fond of saying. This is what happened with Zach Snyder's version of JUSTICE LEAGUE with way too much screen time being given to Cyborg's origin story when the fans just wanted to see the heroes battle the parademons. Marvel didn't have time for Hawkeye to get his origin story and his character suffers for it but Marvel knew that's not what the fans were paying for when they bought tickets to the AVENGERS. Ant Man and the Wasp actually benefitted from being left out so their characters could be better fleshed out in future movies.

[@silversrc]

Wasn't Ant-Man supposed to be a phase 1 movie? It would've been too many characters but maybe Wasp and not Ant-Man could appear in the final act

[@herowither12354]

@@TheN1ghtwalker The only characters to be introduced first in The Avengers, were Maria Hill, and Thanos. Everyone else had already appeared in earlier movies. And Hill and Thanos were practically cameos. To introduce a major character in the teamup movie would be asking for failure.

[@SethLyons-wc3wd]

I loved the Avengers, but these ideas would have made perfect sequels.

[@Sonicman4155]

Agreed 👍 👍

[@irvinreevesinbaraj6134]

Ngl, they did the Hulk dirty in the MCU.

[@anubusx]

I agree they turned him into a joke and a coward. She-Hulk was awful.

[@irvinreevesinbaraj6134]

@@anubusx facts

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

He was done dirty in She-Hulk for sure. He was good in Endgame but that should've been a one time thing. The problem with the Hulk now is that they're not doing anything with him.

[@Radioface7779]

​@anubusx When Hulk lost to Thanos it was over for the Character sadly, they ruined him, Thanos should usually win against Hulk however Hulk would never give up that easy and would give Thanos one of the fights of his life yet in infinity War Thanos treats Hulk like a Slight inconvenience rather than a Life endangering Threat, 2008 or 2003 Hulks would give Thanos a great fight, even if Thanos won in the end

[@anubusx]

@@Radioface7779 Definetly.

[@eon001]

They should take these lost scripts, and turn them into What If episodes.

[@leonardobraynen1524]

That's pretty cool but What If....? Is coming to an end after this 3rd season. Woulda been epic tho. They sorta did that in the 1st season with Assembling an Avengers team not like the MCU. They repeated again in season 2 but in a different time era

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

BRILLIANT! that's what the what if series should have been!!!!!!

[@yospidey0078]

Won't happen they are too focused on stuff like "What if Happy Hogan saved Christmas"

[@redshot5403]

@@yospidey0078I know right? Season 2 has ideas nobody wanted

[@yospidey0078]

@@redshot5403 I don't even know the ideas for Season 3 but I know that it will consist of lame ideas.

[@motherplayer]

Then: "Sorry Jon, we appreciate the unexpected success you brought us and helping turning Robert Downey Jr. into a big time actor who can be two extra zeroes to his price point, but we don't think you deserve a higher fee for your services. Don't get greedy." Now: "Hey Robert! We know your time is basically finished in the MCU, but....things aren't really working out with these new faces and some of the older ones aren't really as enthused as they used to be, so can we convince you to come back, not as Iron Man, to preserve your legacy, but as someone new.....what's that...THAT much, huh? Well, we'll meet your terms because we think you deserve it, not at all greedy."

[@wrlord]

"helping turning Robert Downey Jr. into a big time actor" - wow are you ignorant.

[@motherplayer]

@@wrlord Yes. Big time as in he can negotiate exorbitant deals like that, not that he never had talent to begin with.

[@peterfrank3365]

Zooey Deschanel as The Wasp would've been interesting. Summer, or Jess from 'The New Girl', becoming an action hero. It's already similar to Paul Rudd, who was more known for 'Clueless' or 'I Love You, Man', before becoming the Ant-Man. Deschanel and Rudd even shared a movie together already; 'Our Idiot Brother'. It's a shame Marvel never realized Rudd's full potential as the character.

[@dannypalin9583]

Paul Rudd was Edgar Wright's personal choice as Scott Lang. The reason Ant-Man 1 was the best one in the trilogy was because Rudd co-wrote the script. I have nothing but sympathy for the man. It wasn't his fault Quantumania died on arrival.

[@peterfrank3365]

@@dannypalin9583 I still wish Wright and Rudd could work on something together some day. Doesn't even have to be an 'Ant-Man' movie.

[@mr.iiconic]

That Wasp would have been Jan and so wouldn't have teamed up much with Rudd unless they massively overhauled the lore

[@Byronic19134]

That would have been amazing and I am kinda mad in hindsight it didn’t happen.

[@JayL8899]

I feel Ed Norton’s departure gets overlooked a lot. He’s a brilliant actor. To see Ed Norton & RDJ share the screen would’ve been epic. Mark Ruffalo was a nice replacement but Ed Norton would’ve definitely made Hulk’s story/character feel more important to the MCU as a whole.

[@SecretMagician]

I will be a lifelong defender of the Incredible Hulk movie and Edward Norton's portrayal in the role. Edward even wanted a full trilogy digging deep into Bruce and Hulk's mental states. I still dont get why people don't like it. Granted, its far from perfect but putting it as one of the worst MCU movies when The Dark World, The Marvels, Love and Thunder, etc, also exist is crazy. Another factor may be how it's barely been referenced since because of the Universal rights issues, until Brave New World next year (I still don't understand why Leader and Red Hulk are the villains of that though).

[@carlosrivas1629]

he ego is too big and he is a jerk too.

[@JayL8899]

@@carlosrivas1629 Congrats you’ve just described a majority of successful actors. Move on, ha

[@JayL8899]

@@SecretMagician THANK YOU! I’ve always said it is one of the most slept on movies in the MCU. I think its timing was also bad because remember this movie came out during a summer of comic book films. It came out like a month after Iron Man and right before The Dark Knight. He also didn’t promote the film as much as he should’ve. But he actually cared about the character/story. I remember he was on Rogan’s podcast years ago and delved into reading comics and taking inspiration from Bill Bixby’s portrayal. Also I think the Universal rights issue is what hindered them from doing another solo Hulk movie. Which is why we got these half assed small Hulk story arcs like Planet Hulk in Ragnarok.

[@stellviahohenheim]

He's an actor. He's not the writer, editor or the director. He's the og The Rock, he likes to control any project that he works on because he believes he's better than everyone

[@indianajones4321]

All of these are very interesting, especially the concept of putting in Red Skull, but I’m very happy with what we got as the first Avengers movie is my favorite MCU film

[@Latitz]

I still have soft spot for first Avengers movie. Back then it was first MCU film to break billion dollar mark.

[@indianajones4321]

@ same, I still remember seeing for the first time back in 2012.

[@drizzyfreckles]

That was a time in the cinema, everyone was glued to the screen. My favourite MCU movie too.

[@kdusel1991]

Red Skull would've been interesting as an avengers villain!

[@anubusx]

It would've been better in The Winter Solider if it was revealved that Alexander Pierce was Red Skull in disguise.

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

I disagree. Having Pierce be just a man who lives by Hydra's ideals is much more interesting and compelling than him just being Red Skull in disguise.

[@adrianthearmorwarrior1605]

That would've been an awesome twist.

[@Fortunateis4luck]

Exactly. I love the idea that even in the absence of the Red Skull, there are people who would continue his dream with just as much fervor as he did. “Destroy one head and two will rise in its place” and all that. It would have been too simple if Pierce was RS.

[@SecretMagician]

The thing about this is Red Skull has done tricks like this in the comics where he's disguised himself as a government member to oppress the Avengers. @nathanieldiaz5254

[@zacharyjochumsen9677]

@anubsx yehnth clud hn relly crazy twist al, thing considred

[@classicsonicthewild6051]

It Was Considered To Have Both Shang-Chi And The Mandarin Be Introduced In The Post-Credit Scene Of The Avengers, But It Ultimately Didn’t Happen Due To The Beijing Development Team Not Wanting The Franchise To Have A Chinese Villain

[@laserbeamlightning]

Source?

[@tigertim620]

@@laserbeamlightning His answer: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGjPYYWnbqprg7sfeature=shared

[@superbolt-fr6nr]

​@@laserbeamlightningI remember seeing this fact in TV Tropes

[@matthewronsson]

Why us every word capitalized as if it were an overly long title of a book?

[@MarvelDCedits99]

But they had mandarin appear as a villain for Iron man 3 and that was released just after the avengers movie

[@AhabweArthur]

5:16 Funny how Tony Stark still ended up being the lead/ main character in all the avengers films except in infinity war where it was Thanos.

[@Professor-id4jh]

I never felt that Iron Man was the lead character in the first Avengers movie. The creators did a really good job at making everyone seem at the same level.

[@Fhoulghoul]

The idea of saying Joss Whedon was an up and coming director is WILD Joss Whedon has had bad PR currently but it is hard to overstate how popular he was at the time. He was nerd media for like 15 years. Jon Favreau was much more the indie director. Also Whedon had been involved behind the scenes for years before Avengers

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Whedon had directed one feature film before Avengers and it didn’t make any money. Yes, he was popular from Buffy but he literally was an up and coming feature director who had yet to have a hit.

[@Fhoulghoul]

@@Bulletsandblockbusters Joss Whedon was much much much much much more famous and beloved by the nerd community than even Marvel studios was at the time. I’m guessing you’re younger and weren’t a part of the community at the time but Whedon working with Marvel was a massive boon to the studio it legitimized it to tons of fans. Also he didn’t just have Buffy ( which would be enough as one of the most landmark media properties of the decade) but also Firefly (one of the most beloved sci fi properties ever) Dollhouse, Angel, created one of the most profitable independent projects ever with Dr. Horrible and he wrote one of the best regarded runs on Astonishing X-men. The dude was firmly not in the camp of the Russo brothers or the other up and coming directors they’d use later. This was still when marvel was using Kenneth Branaugh and other big name talent. Throughout every step of their careers (until probably right now) Whedon was a bigger name than Favreau

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

I’m aware and I hear you but when we are discussing salary, Whedon was not a top level director. Favreau had several hits by iron man 2. Whedon had none.

[@Jason_Bryant]

I used to be a huge Joss Whedon fan, so I kept up with his career a lot. He was very much a master of cult classics at that point. There were people who loved Buffy and Firefly, but none of his shows ever had huge audiences. Intense, fiercely loyal audiences, but not big. Whedon had the kind of fame where he was a gigantic star at comic conventions, but most movie goers had no idea who he was. Avengers was huge for him, and really advanced his career. So "up and coming" does feel weird to me too, since I was one of his fans and was constantly seeing other fans online, but it makes sense in this context.

[@JdeMolay]

Whedon was huge in the TV space but in film, not so much. He wrote some films but had only directed one. Movies and TV were also much different and more separate back then production-wise.

[@Braddley05]

Regardless of the fact that The Incredible Hulk didn't set the "world on fire", I still believe to this day that it's the best Hulk adaptation, purely because of the design itself.

[@burgergud2804]

What design

[@Braddley05]

@@burgergud2804 Hulk

[@ext609]

@@Braddley05 Fact. Around the time the movie came out, I thought Hulk in the film looked really cool and also look really terrifying at the same time

[@Ravathiel]

Hulk looked a lot better with straight hair vs the greying Jewfro. by miles. Norton Hulk was a good shade of Green too. I hate how Yellowish Mark's Hulk is. drives me nuts.

[@alphatrion100]

I liked Tim roth in that movie

[@bensneb360]

This version does sound quite fun and I would’ve loved to seen Edward Norton return is the Hulk. But I do love what we got and especially Loki so it all worked out.

[@SirTyJensen]

Norton is my favorite Hulk.

[@Name-cp7oh]

One of my favourite channels talking about one of my favourite movies. Epic.

[@ComicBookDude2005]

Ant-Man is the only OG Avengers member that didn't appear on the film.

[@cable7152]

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

What's weird is that theyre not just good, but CONSISTENTLY really good. Its one of the few channels I actually get pumped about when I get notifications theyve made a new video.

[@cable7152]

@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805 he deserves wat more subscribers, meanwhile Mr Beast has 6 billion.

[@davesmusicchannel3590]

Having the wasp would’ve been cool. A quick backstory of Tony or Cap being like “who’s that?” And Maria Hill or Fury pulling up a screen quickly explaining their backstory and showing footage of them in action (kinda similar to how Tony shows footage of Spider-Man stopping the bus/car crash) would’ve been a good quick explanation

[@kindredkurse]

red skull coming back as the villain for avengers with cosmic knowledge and alien weaponry/alien army wouldve been awesome.

[@hacenedjellout7862]

All of these are so interesting I swear imagine a world with these concepts becoming true instead You could do a "What could've been doctor Strange" because i I've seen that Joaquin Phoenix was gonna be casted doctor strange but he said no

[@Kirazz]

I didn’t expect to see Ashley Johnson in this video even though she was in Avengers

[@ashuebot-tabi4449]

A shame Penn got screwed over by everyone, he deserves credit for his commitment.

[@Logan_Baron]

I like that it ended up being Loki as the villain in the Avengers as it was Loki (controlling the Hulk) that led to the formation of the Avengers in the comics. However I wish they would have done more with the Red Skull in the universe. Either in the next Avengers movie or in a Captain America movie (I thought that Robert Redfords character might turn out to be the Red Skull in a different mask)The Red Skull was a formidable enemy that plagued Cap for ages that was unappreciated in the movies.

[@Omar-wq9dz]

Zak Penn admitted the finished Avengers movie was good, even though he was rewritten by Joss Whedon

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

I don't believe him. He's writer with a horrible track record. Whedon reworked the film for the better

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

@@nathanieldiaz5254 Nothing Penn wrote could've been worse than that trash Wheadon came up with.

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

@TheN1ghtwalker I don't care that you hate Whedon for the kind of person he is. He's a million times better as a storyteller than Penn and that's not even up for debate

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

@nathanieldiaz5254 I don't give a shit about Wheadon as a person. Avengers had one of the lamest scripts I ever seen.

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

@TheN1ghtwalker You must've not read many scripts in your life then😂

[@mattcolvin338]

I genuinely would've loved to have seen Favreau's version just to see how he shot it, though ideally, he would've had proper creative control over it. I think they could've had Red Skull WORKING with Loki. His understanding of the tesseract could've played as an interesting dynamic between himself and Loki. I also like the idea of him and Cap getting a rematch. Then again, like many of the points made, it would've required more focus and taken screen time away from the team.

[@kyocallscats]

Red Skull was extremely underutilized in the MCU so the fact they planned him originally for the 1st Avengers was cool but idk if that would have worked out well for the movie, I think for the sequel would have been better and putting the Masters of Evil. And this may be an unpopular opinion but I'd rather have Wasp over Black Window ngl to me Black Widow being part of the Avengers felt a little out of place cuz I saw her in the cartoon before the movie even came out and she seemed to me much more as an anti hero but oh well

[@polyglot12]

Zooey Deschannel would have been an interesting choice. She would really have embodied the sort of light heartedness of the character as she was originally depicted in the comics.

[@hansentheman8084]

8:19 They actually showed War Machine showing up to New York after the battle in a comic that was made as sort of a prelude for Iron Man 3. The final panel was Rhodey entering the shawarma place and Tony says “Rhodes! Pull up a chair!”

[@Chimpy1]

3:11 Edward Norton is the best variation of Bruce Banner we ever got. No offense to Mark Ruffalo.

[@mr.iiconic]

Disagree. Ragnarok ruined Bruce but 2012 Bruce felt ripped out of a Mantlo-run Hulk book or Defenders

[@travismiddleton8218]

Having Janet/Wasp be a founding member of the Avengers like in the comics would have been great to see in the movie. And as much as I like Loki as the villain, the idea of the Red Skull returning as the film's Big Bad I dig it. Red Skull deserves so much better in the MCU. Him returning to lead HYDRA against Steve, Tony and the Avengers has so many story potentials!

[@dripfreddyfazbear1246]

Josh Hartnett, Jim Carrey And Charlie Cox Were All Considered For The Role Of Loki Before Tom Hiddleston Was Cast

[@TheTrooper506]

Feels like a miracle that the first Avengers movie actually happened with all the behind the scenes stuff with this movie and the early Phase I movies. Younger me was even wondering if the movie would do well. Iron Man 2 was a bit of a letdown at the time and Thor 1 and Captain America 1 were decent. Avengers blew me away when I saw it in theatres.

[@Omar-wq9dz]

Speaking of Zak Penn, I would recommend a video on what could have been for Last Action Hero. The original script he worked on is online, and it’s actually pretty good. It needed more work on the structure and characterization, but it was still a good script. It was meant to be called Extremely Violent

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

I’ll add it to the list

[@Omar-wq9dz]

Cool, thanks

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Thank YOU!

[@damienchazelle3309]

as much how whedon's career turned out at the end, his contribution to the MCU is absolutely undeniable

[@dbagette]

And his enduring legacy of "so, that happened" and "oh, they're right behind me" can be seen everywhere

[@stevekoller3314]

NGL, I feel like Wasp was robbed. In an ideal world, she would be *the* Marvel heroine.

[@KnightEclipser]

“In an ideal world, she would be the Marvel heroine.” Why?

[@stevekoller3314]

​​@@KnightEclipser In the comics, Janet is not only one of the most prominent superheroines of the Marvel universe, but she christened The Avengers and served as the team's leader on a number of occasions. Despite the fact that the MCU severely downplayed her, I personally feel that she should be Marvel's main heroine and their answer to Wonder Woman.

[@blackdragon6]

​@@stevekoller3314that guy clearly doesn't read comics.

[@sipalingindonesia]

But Wasp without Ant Man would be incomplete

[@KnightEclipser]

@@blackdragon6I do know information about the comics, but I admit that the only Marvel Comics story I've read was Ms. Marvel: No Normal.

[@ImaginaryNate]

Ughh, that Clint Barton backstory would’ve been amazing to feature in the first Avengers. I get the time restraints, but Hawkeye was the only member coming in who didn’t get as much backstory spotlight as the others. He deserved that.

[@angelbasiliorodriguezbusto2065]

Even though I would've liked to see characters like Ant-Man or The Wasp int he first movie, I'm glad that the movie managed to become a huge success, even though it had everything against it during its production.

[@Mayo11-i5t]

Not having Norton's hulk was the biggest loss of them all

[@SecretMagician]

He apparently loved the character and wanted a trilogy of movies diving deep into Bruce and Hulk's psyches. What could've been...?

[@Mayo11-i5t]

@@SecretMagician yeah he did love the character a lot, he really took it seriously, and yeah there was supposed to be a trilogy, I think part 2 had grey hulk and the leader involved, I don't think there's any news on part 3, but man, the design, the tone, everything about that hulk was so perfect and it represented what the hulk is supposed to be

[@Studio_Slam_Collective]

I hope this becomes the popular opinion. We were robbed of having Downey Jr and Norton quipping at each other. I often think about how good that scene of Tony tazing Bruce on the avengers ship could have been if it was Norton’s Hulk it just seems like the dialogue there was just made for him

[@Mayo11-i5t]

@@Studio_Slam_Collective totally agree with you man

[@TheMightiestAvenger]

@@Mayo11-i5t not having Norton as the Hulk is not a loss. If he would’ve stayed he would’ve caused way too many more problems for Marvel and the other actors. Say what you want about Mark Ruffalo, but he was an amazing choice to replace Norton and portrayed the character Banner and the Hulk in The Avengers and in future MCU movies that followed very well

[@maxordman4100]

I would’ve loved to have seen Zooey dashenal as The wasp! She would’ve been a fantastic addition! This is definitely my favorite phase one chapter of the MCU, but it’s also really cool to see some different perspectives and ideas.

[@johnycoho7830]

When I first saw Thanos at the end of Avengers I thought he was the Red Skull. That would explain why Loki’s scepter and the aliens guns seemed a lot like hydra weapons. Also Red Skull was transported to space, and was after the Teseract before so it made sense to me.

[@Sonicman4155]

That would've been a very interesting in an alternate universe 🤔

[@d.k.prince5694]

Making Loki the main antagonist in the film made sense. In the comics, it was Loki's schemes that brought the team together in the first place.

[@BlewJ]

I don't see why they always kill the villains. Have a more comic book approach, where they may come back with a new scheme later, not immediately

[@mechajay3358]

1:52 And when Faveru left the director's chair, the Mandarin was turned into a generic billionaire villain.

[@ivanraphaelarosa2369]

I would like to see what would Penn’s original TIH script would’ve been like.

[@Gibbypastrami]

Bro. I was talking about it with my friend. The MCU would be so different if either A. Edgar Wright was talked into working within the bounds of the MCU Or B. They had a different guy at the helm the whole time We would’ve gotten Ant-Man 1 around the time of Captain America Introduce Hank and Janet, end credits scene showing the Wasp costume Then have Wasp show up in Thor instead of Hawkeye or some other movie first Then Iron Man 2 introduce Black Widow And have Hawkeye and Swordsman be members of Shield with very little to do besides being namedropped in Avengers 1 (with Red Skull as the villain) Also screw whoever made Hawkeye not deaf for so long First Avengers would’ve been Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Ant-Man and the Wasp, with Widow, Hawkeye and Swordsman being more involved in the Fury/Hill/Coulson plot line of the film and not official Avengers until a sequel

[@TheRealAdaWong]

Having Wasp would’ve definitely felt more retro. But I’m so glad Black Widow/Scareltt Johansson made the cut. She really brought the best adaptation of the character to screen and arguably had the most development even as a supporting character. While a lot of spy flicks have taken after Scareltt’s sultry/sarcastic/solemn take on female spy characters, making them less about appeal and charm and more-so cold/cool in demeanor.

[@Hershman545]

and everybody blames weadeon, man if i had to rewrite something like that so many times i'd just quit, i say is figie's fault

[@59rlmccormack]

Jon Faveru’s THE AVENGERS… would be nuts if it released.

[@tygerskull]

I miss Red Skull. Can't believe Marvel just turned him into a ghost and made him the Stone Keeper. Such a waste of Captain America's most iconic enemy; imagine if the Joker had never appeared in another movie after 1989's Batman.

[@TonyZarkua]

You Should Do An Episode For Coyote Vs Acme

[@SuperbGorilla]

Wasp or black widow , both hot AF

[@Sonicman4155]

Hell yeah 🥵🥰

[@Sonicman4155]

@@SuperbGorilla who's the hottest 🔥 😍

[@Jaythesparrow]

They did Favreau dirty. The MCU wouldn’t have become what it did without him

[@mr.iiconic]

Would have preferwd Hank and Janet on the roster over Clint and Nat.

[@MatthewK122]

Miss opportunity to bring Red skull back to Mcu, like he stuck in Vormir as guardian

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

If they never do anything with Red Skull after that, then him coming back was completely pointless. Could've had the Stonekeeper on Vormir be a random ghost and it would've made no difference

[@Spillow-C]

he should have returned in Winter Soldier too, the villain from that movie was clearly a replace for him, the head of hydra and stuff like that

[@KillerMoth3663]

Zooey Deschanel as Wasp actually would go insanely hard. I wish we got an earlier Ant-Man and Wasp with Hank and Janet.

[@Sonicman4155]

Oh yes 💯 agreed.

[@Skaiser_Wilhelm7938]

Zak Penn is an underrated writer. I loved Men in Black and Ready Player One, and I enjoyed the Incredible Hulk more than I expected. Also, I would love to see a video on Guillermo Del Toro's Pacific Rim 2, a film Zak Penn was hired to belp write. 🙏

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

I personally think he's a very bad writer. I didn't know he did Men in Black which I haven't seen in awhile but Ready Player One is so badly written that its hilarious. He also wrote Elektra and X-Men The Last Stand which both sucked

[@blackdragon6]

​@@nathanieldiaz5254I'd argue he's more so inconsistent than outright bad.

[@nathanieldiaz5254]

@@blackdragon6 Inconsistent would imply that he writes just as many good movies as he writes bad ones. And those scales are not balanced at all.

[@NadeemShekh-uy9zn]

Im happy with the Avengers movie we actually got man

[@PrinceofGotham777]

everything i hear abt john favreau it sounds like he understands these Ips (SW and marvel) better than the people he works with. They need to let him do his thing.

[@boldmusa4480]

Exactly dude knows his stuff look at what happened to Iron Man 2 studio interference and rushing robbed of a good Iron Man sequel that's why the movie felt something was missing because it was not true to the vision of the demon in bottle story when hear the original script it's a much better movie overall had they let him finish and that's why he chose not to direct the third iron man.

[@massmurdertron51]

Starw wars let's him do this thing. Kathleen Kennedy loves using him

[@jormungandrtheworldserpent8382]

my biggest problem with the mcu is the complete lack of development for hulk they never figured out how to implement him properly wich led to things like "the suns getting reel low scene" and making him smart hulk of screen as well as wasting the planet hulk storyline for laughs he basically became a joke

[@mikekelley2877]

I once read that Red Skull would have been a secondary villain alongside Loki, I think that would have been something cool; I prefer the Edward Norton version of Bruce Banner/Hulk to that of Mark Ruffalo, Norton just felt cooler. I've always thought that General Ross (William Hurt at the time) should have led the national guard forces to New York; and I also imagined the end, where Tony and Pepper pour over the schematics, preparing to turn Stark Tower into Avengers Tower, should have included Rhody and Happy and all 4 of them enjoying champagne over the new idea together.

[@TheMightiestAvenger]

I’m very happy with the final product in what we got that is The Avengers. Honestly, everything in the movie is what should’ve been planned from the very beginning. I’m glad it all worked out in the end. Since its release, it has become the global phenomenon that is today and is one of the best superhero movies in MCU and cinema history.

[@thebostonpowers42]

The more I learn about What Could Have Been and the more deleted scenes I watch, the less I like certain MCU movies. Specifically, the deleted scene with Steve Rogers adjusting to modern times should've stayed in the movie and The Red Skull should've returned to be the Big Bad of The Avengers so Captain America could get a long overdue rematch with his Arch Enemy. Captain America is the leader of The Avengers and deserves to get more focus.

[@jahijohnson3595]

Another amazing breakdown! I just wish they were longer! It’s that good!!!

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Appreciate that!

[@chadwells9045]

Thank you so much for these mini docs every week! I love them!

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

My pleasure and glad you dig em!

[@DinoDave150]

Never would have thought shawarma would have a section all its own.

[@TheKinggReal1]

I WISH Edward Norton’s Hulk was the Hulk in all the other MCU Movies 😔

[@davidgmirsky]

It was supposed to be more like the avengers assemble cartoon where the red skull was the main villain the avengers would fight 24/7

[@furbl4345]

Joss Whedon actually quoted the original Avengers film script as "Very Waspie". Too bad she was later replaced with Black Widow. I was told Eva Longoria has already been cast to play Janet Van Dyne Wasp and she was spotted at the Marvel studio early on. But when Scarlet Jo became available, Longoria was replaced.

[@DJWeequay]

Would've been cool to have a Avengers movie with Red Skull and The Leader teaming up

[@nic8577]

Really wish we got a longer cut of the film

[@beaniebear1122]

I would love to see you do videos on What If scenarios in film history.

[@cable7152]

Not just any waitress, Ellie from the Last of Us and then Ellie's mom on the show. Lol. Thanks for another banger episode, love me some Marvel B&B.

[@ElCapitanJones]

So they can offer RDJ more money for Doom but god forbid they bring the one director who gave a shit about the project AND also delivered their first movie to a worldwide standing ovation.

[@Sonicman4155]

I know it's Bulls@#$% 😒

[@tyrannozilla]

I still think one of Marvel's biggest mistakes was when they messed up the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. It just felt like a huge betrayal to everything Tony went through in the first film. That would also be a great video in the future, B&B. The original plans for Iron Man 3.

[@Acrocanthosaurus]

Wow. Because of how perfect it was as a comic book movie, I just assumed it was a perfect script from the get go. Wow, they were actually all over the place.

[@artdogg50]

Well I think some of those decisions would go on to hinder some of the Iron Man and especially Thor films. The Avengers films, for the most part, came out unscathed.

[@Manan-jw8lc]

always waitin for you to upload man!!!!!

[@XavierRuiz-up7xr]

Marvel interfering with Jon Favreau’s work with iron man 2 😒 ridiculous what’s with these studios and interfering with people’s work and he could’ve directed the avengers would like to see how that could’ve been and if armor wars happens I hope they have Jon favreau direct it and wish could’ve seen more of Hugo weaving as red skull

[@waitup-5198]

Fun fact: Lego Marvel Avengers confirmed that the waitress's name was Beth

[@deanm9652]

They should have done 3 stand-alone Avengers movies and then a trilogy of Endgame movies with Thanos.

[@TheOriginalDx1]

So 9:00 , joss whedon fully learned his lesson, then 5 years later when given the chance to direct DC's team of heroes instead.. makes the exact same mistake

[@toughluck8012]

8:00 interesting. A lot of source say that was RDJs improv line and the smile you see on Chris Evan's face is genuine cuz he didn't expect him to say that

[@mrgiancarlos]

Another qualitative content from Bullets and Blockbusters and btw please give us the 2 other Disney Circle 7 films between Finding Nemo and Monsters Inc Sequel

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Thnx! They’re on the to do list

[@Russkafin]

This was cool to learn more about. I remember when Avengers was still in pre-production SuperHeroHype had an article about Zak Penn’s script and the fact that the Hulk would be an antagonist, similar to the first arc of The Ultimates.

[@wills2140]

To think there is an "alternate universe out" there where Marvel / Disney did not "low ball" and keep tight reign on John Favreau up to _Iron Man 2_ ( 1:27 ) and he stays with Marvel all the way to streaming series - Instead of John going off with Dave Filoni to co-create, produce, and sometimes direct , _The Mandalorian_ , and additionally work on ; _The Book of Boba Fett_ , _Ashoka_ , and the upcoming 2026 movie _The Mandalorian & Grogu_ and the new _Skeleton Crew_ series. That is a whole lot of content that Marvel Studios could have had Favreau make for them...

[@RedthegamingZoroark]

I just realized but I think the idea of Wasp being in the Avengers was actually reused for the opening scene of Marvel what if Season 2 episode 5 That’s a cool way to reuse a idea

[@dustinbridges6831]

This shows you how lucky they got. The first Iron Man movie, the first three Captain America movies the first avengers movie and the last two avengers movies are the best.

[@artdogg50]

I still think some of those decisions ended hindering some of the solo films. Mostly the ones you left out.

[@dustinbridges6831]

@ yeah I think Marvel kinda got lucky with the first handful of phases and most of the quality was low, but it was decent for a comic book movie. I really do think they should have planned their phases out a little better and kind of storyboard what they were gonna do lightly so that way everything was a little more interconnected, especially in the later phases I feel like after endgame they just tried to wing it

[@mathieuleader8601]

ooh I like having the Hulk as a foe to showcase how much of a powerhouse he is

[@76tennboy]

I would’ve liked to see more of the people during the battle like the waitress and the cop.

[@Lemon_Push]

Ngl they could of just added the cut villains for some Masters of Evil team for thr first Avengers movie

[@Sonicman4155]

That or they could use the Masters in the sequel.

[@Lemon_Push]

@Sonicman4155 facts

[@thebostonpowers42]

Red Skull definitely should've returned in The Avengers but maybe not as the sole villain of the film. I always thought the plan was to have Loki and Red Skull team up. Loki's role would've stayed the same only he would've been backed up behind the scenes by Red Skull, who returns to Earth right before the third act and becomes the bigger threat during The Battle of New York. A rematch between Captain America and Red Skull would've been great and it would've made an already awesome film better.

[@RhapsodyInBlaah]

I really want to read these drafts.

[@SmudgySmudge21]

Great video!!

[@somethingofascientistmyself]

We didn’t really have access to what happened behind the scenes back then, so when Ruffalo was introduced as Banner I felt a bit off because Norton was the one I expected

[@dtape]

I miss when the MCU was exciting and fresh not a soul-less corporate bohemoth.