The original "Turing Test" paper is unbelievably visionary

This video is a walk-through of the 1950 paper by Alan Turing titled Computing Machinery and Intelligence. In the paper, Turing describes the Imitation game for the first time, which has come to be known as the Turing Test. Follow along for yourself here: academic.oup.com/mind/article...
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Timestamps:
0:00 - The Imitation Game
8:13 - Objection 1
8:38 - Objection 2
8:59 - Objection 3
9:45 - Objection 4
11:35 - Objection 5
13:12 - Objection 6
14:36 - Objection 7
14:57 - Objection 8
15:43 - Objection 9
19:09 - Endscreen

[@kaiscamp7877]

Isaac Asimov put this type of thinking in his writing. When a computer accuses the operator of conspiracy to kill it, possibly by threatening to unplug it, then the line has been crossed from unaware to aware.

[@LeandritoDendrito]

I love how he considered telepathy a real thing on that paper

[@fletcherreder6091]

Welcome to the '50s and 60's! We tend to think about the numerous government programs looking into ESP phenomena as silly, if not outright wasteful, but people believed based on the evidence of the time that there was something to be found. That evidence turned out to be shit and the whole thing has been categorically disproven but that wasn't the case at the time as rigorous experiments had yet to be conducted. It wasn't the first time nor the last that something considered ridiculous today was subjected to serious scientific consideration by otherwise well respected thinkers. I personally think that it is good that we do consider such things and also to test them because avoiding subjects simply to avoid future embarrassment is also not new and has set us back numerous times as well.

[@MrFilip121]

Maybe he knew something we don't.

[@KarlRKaiser]

Telepathy is real, but it varies by the super physical faculties of either party. Some people are receptive of the thoughts of others, either clearly or as an intuitive impression, but can't communicate their thoughts to the other, while others can do both. I have a spiritual teacher named Adi Da who made a comment to me the first time I stood in front of him, only he made no sound and I heard the comment in my head. He also frequently answered people's questions before they could ask them. So he could both hear their thoughts and impose a communication to their brain to be heard silently by them.

[@FarhadHakimov]

You implying that it isn't? But seriously, it is entirely fair to consider telepathy as a real thing when statistical evidence points to that. There are multiple studies showing that some form of extra-sensory perception or actuation exists. I shan't provide citations, just keep your mind open. Hehe.

[@BryanLu0]

​@@MrFilip121There were studies published by Rhine and co. But later reviews of these studies indicated that cheating was possible. No one has been able to replicate the results Rhine and co. produced since then.

[@richardhumbert1060]

I'm learning and relaxing at the same time! 😊

[@magvs_maestro216]

It's crazy how well she does that, without promoting herself as an ASMR channel

[@abeld94]

Her voice, pacing it’s full ASMR material. But the topic she does is simply amazing. I always learn something.

[@EdT.-xt6yv]

What if she is a computer, she remained the same for 20min. ?

[@holobolo1661]

6:15 Also if that 10^9 storage capacity is referring to bytes, around 2000 computers could often have 1GB of RAM, which is 10^9 bytes, so he was spot on there.

[@luca5247]

I wonder if instead the unit he was implicitly referring to was bits, still the fact that he more or less nailed the order of magniture is incredible.

[@InTimeTraveller]

@@luca5247 I don't think bytes was really a thing back in Turing's time, since this is more or less an artifact of memory organisation and addressing of instructions on the first integrated digital processors. So probably he meant tape positions, as in punch tape computer designs. Or at least that would have been the most immediate thing in his mind since also his theoretical descriptions of computers (Turing Machines) were utilising tape as a storage medium and they were storing symbols in each tape position. Could be considered equivalent to bits I think.

[@luca5247]

@@InTimeTraveller that was my thought exactly. It is such an amazing feat to be so forward looking and precise in the estimate considering how wildly different the underlying tech was at the time.

[@merseyviking]

At 16:51 he talks about 10^10 to 10^15 binary digits, so he's thinking in terms of bits. 10^10 bits is about a gigabyte.

[@emilepapillon2275]

how is he omitting the unit like that in a paper 😂

[@aclearlight]

A true gem of a video, so full of intelligence, insight and heart. Thank you for honoring his memory so deeply.

[@RisingSunReviews]

This is a fascinating paper, seeing the way Turning thinks and the various things he's considering even when computers were so new. And thinking about Chat GPT and the AI tools we have now, it's hard for me to say that these tools are thinking, but they are doing something impressive. A couple months ago I asked ChatGPT to write a cross-over fanfiction between two anime I liked, just to see what it would do, and it did, though mostly summarizing the basic story. But still, it understood the prompt, the anime I asked it about, and told a coherent story.

[@UdderlyEvelyn]

Loved your walkthrough of the paper and your thoughts. You have a lovely voice, by the way, very relaxing. :)

[@Harsh.Jangid]

I’ve just watched “The imitation game “ as a computer science student I am strongly convinced by Turing’s works and his visionary ideas about future of Computer systems ,cryptography and AI. Hats off to tibees for this video Lots of Love ❤ from india 🇮🇳

Just understand in real life the team was huge, not a one man show like the film.

[@smarts_arts]

I think you missed the point of the movie. It was not made for computer scientist, it does explore it, but the purpose of the film is to tell Turing’s story of how he was murdered by the UK government who used chemical treatments to rob science of one of its most brilliant mind. Please consider watching again from the prospective of the director, writers and LGQBT+ peoples.

[@Harsh.Jangid]

@@smarts_arts yes 🙌🏻 you are right besides I’ve said this from the prospective of Education or his works and visionary ideas 💡

@@smarts_arts i know who he was, just saying he did not do the job on his own.

[@smarts_arts]

@ Curious as to why you feel that is necessity to point out because I do not see that in the film. In fact that was a major theme, how the scientists learned to cooperate and appreciate each others genius. Maybe have another watch of the film. It won best picture that year because of its depth and complexity of story.

[@ruseriousdownunder4888]

Thank you for this. An interesting insight into a brilliant man. As an aside, congratulations to you for getting 1M subscribers. I viewed your channel for the first time just before you quit your PhD. As a person who struggled through my own for many years (and haven’t used that specific learning at all in my career) I felt for you and I am glad you have made a success of your new direction. Keep it up!

[@RolandElliottFirstG]

Very intesting, thank you Toby for putting this together.

[@CodeEmporium]

Absolutely loved this. I've been fascinated too by the ideas in that dissertation... I am now tempted to make a video on this with my thoughts too. Thank you!

[@aelm666]

WOW. This is one of the best videos I’ve ever seen on KZbin. Extremely interesting. Thank you!

[@taylordonovan196]

I love your channel, and think your open mindset approach to all aspects of reality via mathematically sound arguments and/or analogies is absolutely brilliant. Due to its simplicity and delicate delivery, a mind of any age or education level can unfold the mysteries of our shared experience as human beings that plagued the most brilliant physicists of the modern era. (Well known "or" huge "OR" barely mentioned if not almost forgotten.

[@beccadina6712]

I really enjoyed this. Thank you! I look forward to reading more science papers in the future.

[@baconation3771]

wonderfully done videos. A quandary. For your benefit, I would enjoy seeing you pursue your academic ambitions, but would be disappointed by a lack of these marvelous video productions. Thanks, for what it's worth.

[@hasanimason]

Awesome work Tibees 🎉🎉🎉

[@danielwallace1968]

This is a great video. Thank you for making it.

[@toxicalyss]

Where was this channel all my life. I love the narration and content.

[@paulhughes8907]

Good job presenting a good and accurate version of the Turing test, nice presentation.

[@harriehausenman8623]

OMG! Thank you *so* much. The world really needed that video! I love the part about "telepathy", btw 😆One of the few things that never get mentioned in a conversation about "The" Turing-Test. That's gonna change *now* !

[@AusNetFan13]

Terrific Toby on your video presentation. Truly gives one to ponder about A.I.

[@eriktempelman2097]

One of the finest works by a true genius. Thanks for sharing this analysis.

[@joelwallenius2877]

Great video thank you. I rarely watch whole videos! Looking forward to the next one.

[@MarioXP2008]

Amazing GENIAAA!!! You gave me the answers!!! Woooow!! Now I understand more things!!

[@lucasbernard5304]

This video is great. It's informative and amazing asmr.

[@crimsomnia1415]

Imagine growing up in a world where everyone around you called you a machine-child. A creature unlike the rest of humans, since you're manufactured and not capable of 'consciousness', in fact - all that you're feeling right now is just a facsimile of what *real consciousness* is, no matter how much it might feel 'real' to you. I wonder what fantasies of consciousness would your mind evoke as you tried to fathom what it would feel like to be conscious.

[@crimsomnia1415]

On that note, I think I wont be inclined to belive a machine to be conscious until it actually starts asking those questions by it's own initiative.

[@Ludix147]

In philosophy of mind, these machines are called "Zombies", and it's not clear whether they are conceivable. We don't know whether you can have a machine process information the way we do, without it automatically having consciousness.

[@Gooberslot]

7:23 This is the most insightful comment in the video IMO. We don't want to admit that machines can think. Perhaps they already can.

[@MyGoodBooks]

Thanks Tibee - you are so inspiring

[@mevenstien]

Nice video, I like your insights too, thank you for another enjoyable video.🙂

[@Chiemat]

This sound which you used between Turing's objection so it was easily for us to distinguish parts of his work - this is great idea actually, especially for those who only listen to your video. But the funniest part that this sound imitate machine "beeping" and my Multicooker does the same sound. So half of the video I cannot understand what the heck going on with my cooker 😁. Thank you for a such great video❤

[@mad_mario_]

Another amazing vid! Toby you are the smartest and the cutest ever! 😍😍💕💕

[@bennythetiger6052]

It's always amazing to see the great minds of human history project so much knowledge over space and time, present and future.

[@niki1990]

I love your work! ❤

[@twinters8]

Amazing video, thank you!

[@nerd26373]

We appreciate your dedication and hard work on this channel. You'll always have our support no matter what.

[@DouglasASean]

I don’t think he said that computers will be able to think, he said that one would be able to speak in terms of the machine thinking without being contradicted. He is saying that we will come to talk about them, and treat them as if they are thinking. Great Video btw!

[@deirdre_anne]

That's an interesting distinction and very important. We could probably get away with saying "let's see what Siri thinks" without being contradicted my the average person today and I know someone (a professor of philosophy, no less) who commonly says "I asked (x) AI about this and it said, . . . " That would definitely be getting into the ballpark of "speaking in terms of them thinking without being contradicted", even if we don't understand those machines to be "thinking" in the narrow sense.

[@kalisticmodiani2613]

His words say "does that machine think ?" is for practical purpose a useless question. The same way that "do my fellow humans think?" is : for sake of sanity we accept that our fellow humans think in the same way that we think we do, even though we have no way to know that.

[@2ndfloorsongs]

​@@kalisticmodiani2613Yes, sentience is one of those things like gods, probably impossible to ever prove or disprove.

[@VernCrisler]

Good point. It seems to boil down to a question of form versus matter. A human-like robot might be able to fool us that it is human because it imitates the FORM of humanity. But in terms of its MATTER, it's really made up of circuits, not much more removed from what's found in a toaster. If we are prepared to say a robot can think, we should have no hesitation in saying a toaster can think.

[@lancemarchetti8673]

Crazy cool content... Liked & Subbed 👌

[@Zenocrat]

Fabulous video ... thank you!

[@deepmoyhazra2235]

Thanks for explanation

[@Elena-love]

So beautiful video 🤩❤ thanks you 🌹

[@brazenzebra]

Enrapt! You had my total attention! Great video. Thank you. With neural network programming, one could already argue that machines are "thinking" on their own accord. It scares the pants off of researchers, because they really don't know how these machines are programmed. Outputs are surprise after surprise just like a real human being, maybe like a little kid saying the darndest things.

[@LordNifty]

8:25 - This part has been referenced in a number of sci-fi stories I've seen, often done pretty well (at least in those examples I've seen).

I love your props, and content

[@audreybarnes6527]

Toby - listening to your voice walk us all through this paper late at night warms my soul ❤. I'm not sure we humans are good at spotting intelligence - it's all around us and yet we ignore it.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

I do enjoy reading original groundbreaking papers sometimes. In college, I read On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies by Albert Einstein (special relativity). Interesting stuff. I already knew from my physics class how Einstein approached it and how that is different from the way it is usually taught. We learned the easier version of the proof of special relativity in my mechanics class. Then, the next semester, in E&M class, we learned the much harder derivation Einstein actually did.

[@diamondkittyy]

Hello, my cat loves your voice... he is so hypnotized. I like listening to you too; this is a win win for me.

[@prassanna369]

I first read this paper during my second year of undergraduate degree. I can't understand easily still couldn't. Left reading that even. But Alan Turing had got a place in my heart. I felt his visionary ideas and technical thinking.

[@_MISTY-RAIN_]

Awesome!!!!!

[@palmtreegal3]

Very interesting! I already feel empathy for those delivery robots that get stuck and need help. Idk if I believe machines can/will be able to think though

[@Barnaclebeard]

Your brain proves that machines can think. If it is indeed the origin of human thought.

[@user-ql2ce5tx5c]

@@BarnaclebeardThat your brain is a “machine” performing “calculations” is entirely metaphorical outside of very delimited contexts. Previous to the digital age the metaphor was steam engines and pressures (e.g., see how Freud expressed himself). Future ages will look back on ours and see how faddish we were in using metaphors.

[@davidrivero299]

I think what will eventually make us accept a form of machine thinking has nothing to do with what we say about them, but what we say about us. In my opinion what will start changing our way of thinking is something related to a point Turing makes in the paper: we are a form of machine.

[@AchaziaAltezzaAdhitama]

I really like your voice and your way of speaking!

[@raulgil8459]

You are Brilliant!!!

[@raiinaii]

Mind blowing content

[@justin9605]

Thank you.

[@madhumita1345]

Toby I really miss your earlier kinda videos where you even talked about your personal stories, your life as a phd student or you discussing about passion etc.Remember? Would love if you made more of those videos

[@ownmicelio]

This is soo interesting, we have seen this test in so many books and movies

[@erthuima]

This is some high quality ASMR

[@ericpmoss]

I know some people really like it, but it drives a lot of us up the wall, and I really wish that people presenting important topics wouldn't use such a cheap tactic to get clicks.

[@gabrielmarciu69]

​@@ericpmossI'm pretty sure that's just her style lol. It's not about clicks.

[@shaktidevii]

Love this!

[@Everyyoueverymiau]

This paper is truly amazing

[@kamara7173]

This is DEEP!

[@marccasals6366]

When I studied mathematics I read this paper. Thanks you for bringing it back again into my life❤❤❤

[@PyAsap358]

your voice is so soothing

[@magvs_maestro216]

Brilliant

[@TheDynamicmarket]

toby is the queen of science!

[@brodericki4281]

Wow-wee that was a good one 😊

[@Six_Cats_Watching_Birds]

Thank you for all the wonderful content! I discovered your excellent channel first and then I realized that two super cute cats have adopted you and your family a few years ago. Where are those beautiful cats now? I only see them in old videos😿... I' d be very glad to see them again in your such interesting videos! To honour my language I write in Greek also: Ευχαριστούμε για όλο αυτό το υπέροχο περιεχόμενο! Ανακάλυψα πρώτα το εξαιρετικό κανάλι σας και μετά συνειδητοποίησα ότι δύο γατούλες έχουν υιοθετήσει εσάς και την οικογένειά σας. Πού είναι τώρα αυτές οι τρισχαριτωμένες γατούλες; Τις βλέπω μόνο σε παλιότερα βίντεο😿... θα χαρώ πολύ να τις ξαναδώ στα τόσο ενδιαφέροντα βίντεό σας!

[@cicad2007]

Tibees, thanks for an illuminating and entertaining video! 🙂 I wonder where Turing got his ideas about telepathy? Never heard of him in relation to that before.

[@JohnDanielBryant]

He consulted with a psychic for most of his life. A psychic told him that he would be a genius before he did anything noteworthy.

[@MrDayinthepark]

You might look up the old Star Trek episode on the exelcoms. Little robotic workers that learn and perform tasks. The gist of the episode, was Data (the android) thought the exelcoms were showing a possibility of being a life form, and he would not allow their destruction for research, even disobeying the captain's orders. In the episode, one of the exelcoms sacrifice its own "life" exhibiting selfless dedication to the work. It was one of the most moving episodes of Star Trek I remember. A great exercise in this issue, of whether or not computers are sentient beings.

[@smarts_arts]

Also Data’s Trial from STNG. Where Picard must argue Data is alive while Riker is forced to argue he’s a machine and property of Star Fleet.

[@awaredeshmukh3202]

The episodes about AI are all some of my favorites!!

[@VernCrisler]

Of course, a robot can be programmed to sacrifice itself if it leads to group survival.

[@VernCrisler]

@@smarts_arts Data was never proven to be other than a glorified toaster. However, I think the real message of the episode is not what Data really is, but how HUMANS behave. How do WE treat our creations? It's analogous to the question of how we treat animals?

[@nico_qwer1732]

I personally really liked his argument that you can only prove that you are thinking yourself, but for your own sanity you assume other humans are too. This makes this question one of personal choice and not of objective testing. In other words, one can decide to assume thoughts in humans, but not in machines, no matter how advanced the machine. Also, when you look how a brain works, you just see a bunch of mini machines that accept stimuli and spit out an output, neurons. That is what blurs the line between humans and machines even more for me. Unless you believe in a “soul” that only humans would have, humans are machines, just ones with lots of inputs (think of all the sensors in your body) and lots of well trained and trainable neurons.

Exactly, humans are machines.

[@VernCrisler]

It's interesting that starting with the philosopher Fichte, it's believed that we must accept the existence of the Other or we cannot accept the existence of ourselves. I would call this Golden Rule epistemology. I'm not sure, however, whether Descartes would have accepted it.

[@brianb8003]

I've met "other humans". I'm actually pretty convinced they don't think. Have you seen people? They're the worst.

[@VernCrisler]

@@brianb8003 Undoubtedly, Sartre would second that opinion.

[@matiasgarciacasas558]

This is the exactly the reason why I think we should never try to make robots that fully imitate humans. I don't want to see someone/something that looks exactly human and then have to question if it deserves moral consideration. On one hand, I don't want to treat something that might be an overly fancy calculator like a human, and on the other I don't want to treat something that might be a fully sentient being like an object.

[@captainjj7184]

Okay subscribed for talking about this😊

[@goodnoodles_]

There's something about the way you talk that's just so calming.

[@NitaSteyn-kn2gp]

She should have a 2nd channel where she does asmr with her voice

[@nathanielallison1999]

Thanks!

[@marce8760]

First and foremost @Tibees you made a wonderful video. Imo and ime people attribute all kinds of feelings and thoughts to each other, so as long as the machine is convincing enough it can play a meaningful role in society. Whether it can actually 'think' can only be answered when we have a reference, ie what thinking really is. Imo it's not that important either to answer, as long as it can perform useful tasks, can learn and is not harmful. Self driving cars being a prime example, where they are now able to prevent car accidents to happen. Full self driving is not there yet, but close imo. If it is there it will prevent many death and injuries. And it will provide the elderly and disabled with a way to stay connected with their loved ones and travel where ever they want to go.

[@HidekazuOki]

Turing was incredibly insightful - I didn't realize that the phrase "Imitation Game" came from a paper about the Turing test though... fascinating. It is also interesting how his struggle with gender identity blended into his inquiry into such fundamental things about thinking though. I wonder how fundamental this aspect is to this notion of thought.

[@webdeveloperninja9220]

I always wondered what computer science people meant when they said a language was "Turing Complete". Always learning

[@balijosu]

I might have missed it, but I don't think she talked about Turing completeness. That's about the sort of computational power a machine has.

[@webdeveloperninja9220]

​@@balijosuI need to research this more. Idk 🤷‍♂️

[@glassdos3175]

Turing Complet meas that the language can compute evrything that a Turing machine can compute. Wich is a roundabout way of saying, a language can compute anything wich is computabel (Church-Turing thesis).

[@MDK1360]

That voice makes me feel sleep 😴😴. It's soo cool 🥰

[@jeremybauman629]

I worder what Mr. Turing's response would be if we now told him what computers are capable of doing today?

[@qlue7881]

I think the jury was still out on telepathy at the time Also, Alan Turing was born at a time when spiritualism and belief in psychics was all the rage It's possible that some of that may have influenced his way of thinking

[@FatherMarty]

I'm not a scholar - but it seems that one thing missing (at least in today's world) is spontaneity or curiosity by machines. It seems to me that while machines can respond, humans can wonder or speculate or explore.

[@SynaTek240]

Oh wow, shocker, so the turing test isn't even originally about simply being able to tell whether the participant is human or not, this test seems in fact like a better test, I've often thought the common formulation is a bit bad since there is such a variety in people that it'd be easyish to replicate, but the original formulation seems a bit better

[@LucasDimoveo]

By the literal iteration of the Turing Test, we have machines that have already passed the test If we keep making harder tests then we will get to the point where humans will fail them. At this point we’ll have to start asking some serious questions about what we are doing here

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

At that point it's essentially Blade Runner.

[@dimitardobrev3296]

When people fail, they say "im only human" And the problem is forgotten When machines fail, we say "that's not like a human", and make it a problem. When a machine doesn't fail, we make that a problem too and up the ante. At the end, what kind of machine is most human like, and is that the one you really want?

[@michaeldillon3113]

' Tibees ' as you were studying physics in Biology , it made me think that I once read a paper where Turning gave a mathematical explanation for differentiation of embryonic cells ( still a complete mystery I believe ) .

[@quantumfineartsandfossils2152]

I love how you produce using good audio production, your great speaking voice & avoid loud effects noises gimmicks music & we all know you are a genius too :)

[@purple8pen824]

I read this paper for a cognitive studies course in grad school, and was surprised by the telepathy section too. The professor (who was in the psych department, and definitely not a fan of "the woo") also presented some later research on the "Ganzfeld protocol" which consistently shows a reliable statistical effect (subjects pick the correct result about 1/3 of the time when it would only be 1/4 of the time by chance), and I remember him at one point waving his arm at the projector screen in astonishment, while exclaiming, "This is *real*!"

[@rudyschurmann6211]

Interesting stuff

[@mutabazimichael8404]

Fantastic

[@theA731N]

Neat info. Glad we get to be able to crawl into his thinking bot. I think the random training is the potential of autonomous thought. Although we aren’t truly limited by anything other than our own will to think, it might be no different for a robot of tomorrow. The only other difference is that a natural mind isn’t limited by existence and all of its produce. A robot can develop a mind without a conscious that will be bounded by the limits of unimaginable potential.

[@whukriede]

I liked this very much, it could be continued. Perhaps discussing the works of Church, Kleene, and Rosser?

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

One of the most important things to keep in mind regarding artificial intelligence is the way that the goalposts are constantly changing. AI pretty much is just defined as doing something that humans can do, and the meaning of that can vary. Earlier on, people working on AI were figuring out how to get computers to do things like play chess; even though that's purely mathematical, it was still astounding at the time that a computer could do better than the world champion. That's pretty much why it's hard to think of computers as really "thinking". The behavior of a computer is ipso facto considered different from the behavior of a human.

[@Jakestar29]

Mind blowing

[@yungterry3310]

I'm excited for you for the second time

[@yungterry3310]

I have beep bumps, now I want a friend with a Jeep

[@miriam-english]

Thank you so much for covering this paper and for giving the link to it in the information above. I'm certain that the next generation of AIs will have intelligence indistinguishable from humans. We are almost there. I write science fiction. AIs feature prominently in many of my stories. I don't think we have much to fear from AIs (except the possibility of morons in the military making killer AIs) and I look forward to AIs partnering with us to assist us in all our endeavors. One of the great things that I think will come out of the work on AI is a deeper understanding of our own brain, and also the brains of dogs. From dogs we will finally learn effortless selfless love. We will program that into AIs, and even better, we might work out how to program it into ourselves. Great times ahead.

[@le24_qr6nod]

Can you please make more videos like this ? Of different papers ?

[@rayrocher6887]

Thanks for the info

[@readoryx373]

Bstar gallactica new series presented some depth to these questions. I am inspired by this channel's questions as well of course

[@GGrev]

ily teebees

[@vargad3919]

That thumnail is so CUTE 🥰

[@eXponentia]

I think you're right that the goal posts of thinking machines will keep moving. Until a machine is indistinguishable from not only any human, but the best human in every capacity. Even then, the goal posts will move. A machine being capable of doing everything the average human can do will be considered just imitating. A machine that is better than the best human in every field will still be considered imitating. It's going to take a machine building an identical copy of itself (or more aptly, building something that is functionally equivalent to itself, while being a wholly original creation) before people will even consider that a machine has truly "thought".

[@gasdive]

I'm pretty sure that the goal posts would just be shifted again.

[@eXponentia]

@@gasdive While I agree, at that point you can just throw the goal posts away and just say "then humans don't think either." Because there's no argument possible that can't be made for humans after that.

[@gasdive]

@@eXponentia seeing what's happening at the moment, there's basically a religious argument but they replace "soul" with "consciousness". Humans have it, machines don't. When machines get it then they'll be thinking, but there's no test that can detect it. It's like the infinitely portable goal post.

[@orbismworldbuilding8428]

"Ahh but it must have copied how we created it", "surely it just looked in the mirror and distorted itself, then followed that design", "billions of years of unthinking evolution made us, and that thing uses randomness too. Doesn't take thought." "Ok it thinks, but does it experience anything?" "Ok it simulates itself and processes stimuli, but does it experience qualia?" If we do acknowledge that ai thinks, we'll still probably descriminate, bolstering ourselves as more important like people do about dolphins or ravens or octopus. However, the biological creatures we can still say "ahh but they lack technology and civilization!" An alien could meet us, their tech could be organic and we'd discount it. Maybe we'd only consider another organisms intelligent when they far surpass our own technology. But this is all a problem of species chauvinism. Machines who are verified conscious or thinking or feeling would still be descriminated, because people want to have machines for machine purposes, labor, tools. People who think of animals those sorts of ways are similarly stubborn and lacking in empathy

[@gasdive]

@@orbismworldbuilding8428 that pretty much hits the nail on the head

[@doylesaylor]

Wonderful discussion of AI. Brilliant brilliant brilliant!

[@maydude2]

something that would catch my attention is...hard to describe. It would be whatever the opposite of computation is, I think. A machine? that computes? or solves? problems that can't be solved with an algorithm. I think this would look pretty magical, and it would do very well combined with the computation systems we already have.