The Origins of Cardassian Fascism...

[@colresswesker8912]

I feel the need to reference the fact that Cardassians have an entire genre of storytelling known as "The Repetitive Epic" which seems to circle around the idea of Cardassians giving themselves over to the state to ensure it's survival. The Never Ending Sacrifice of course being the big story that Garak references in Deep Space Nine. It really says a lot about how ingrained the Cardassian brand of facism is by the time of Deep Space Nine.

[@weldonwin]

There were also the Cardassian Mystery novels, where everyone is guilty of something and rather than the reader trying to figure out who is the guilty party, its more about figuring out who is guilty of what crime

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

@@weldonwin isn't that the plot of "Clue"

[@weldonwin]

@@ronaldfinkelstein6335 More or less... frankly Garrack would have probably loved that movie

[@Sephiroth144]

@@weldonwin Eh, he would've appreciated the, frankly, pedestrian nature of it. "But at least... they tried."

[@Geeko170]

People today have forgotten that “authoritarian” is a word.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

or the old classic "Tyrant!" its what we used back in the day.

[@Mrs.Grave5433]

Absolutely Based choice. I need more things that have “Sic semper tyrannis” on it and no Americans, the phrase doesn’t mean “shoot Lincoln” a man let’s just say proves the point of a similarly assassinated leader “history is written by the victors.” - Nope I’m not giving a name, TNG only’s will have to watch DS9.

[@ThatSlowTypingGuy]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Sic semper tyrannis!

[@BernddasBrotB7]

Yeah, it can be depressing how little some people understand. To them, you have 'democracy' (Goodies) and 'fascists' (Baddies), lacking all nuance. As an example, I ran into someone recently who claimed that the Romulans can't be democratic because they're authoritarian. They then went on to claim that unless every aspect of government is democratically represented, you aren't democratic. So both the ideology and the existence of the Continuing Committee and (presumably if we believe Q) Emperor excludes it. By definition, they at the same time claimed the Federation isn't a democracy because it contains constituent bodies which for example, are monarchies. Andoria and Hysperia being two examples. Obviously, this is very stupid. Were such a definition to be applied to reality, then the UK wouldn't be a democracy. Nor indeed would Norway, which is currently ranked the most democratic nation on Earth (as of 2023) while being a constitutional monarchy.

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

Quite the balance of somber and comical for this video. Combined with a third of the video basically being done to address the internet misconceptions. I'd also add that a major factor in the rise of the Cardassian Union was extreme scarcity of certain critical resources, which along with their various external wars created a vicious cycle of a negative feedback loop. Another intriguing introspection into the political structure of a major Trek faction.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

intresting how each of the axis powers suffered from their own material shortages. intresting parallel.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 One might add the principal of autarky in Fascist systems as the Realpolitik part of the justification of expansion, while the fear of the "Other" or external enemies and superiority of the race is the second part of the equation. One brings to mind the current North Korean regime which has diverged from communism into something different: A hereditary regime based on nationalism centered the belief that the North Koreans are the "cleanest people," and the need for Juche, or autarky.

[@ceilyurie856]

I remember reading or hearign somewhere that the Cardassians literally looted their own museums for critical resources like dilithium and precious metals useful in technology the before their practical uses were discovered, were used for decorative purposes in their cultural treausres...which is SAD AF>

[@NotAlrightSpider]

I just finished watching the ds9 two parter that introduced the Maquis. Where we learn a little about Cardassian politics and now immediately after viewing, I see this. Great timing. 👍🏻

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

glad to be of service

[@JCtechwizard]

Love the closed captions at 0:07 "we're going to be going into Kardashian politics"

[@CllrP]

Completely unrelated, but it needs a video. Q knew about the Dominion. He introduced Star Fleet to the Borg so they built war ships out of fear and realisation they were outgunned. With all those warships ready just in time for the Dominion War. A war they would have lost without the anti Borg fleet. .

[@Khatep-the-Ancient]

I mean Q introduced the Enterprise-D to the Borg because of how alien they were to test the humans to see how they would react to such an uncompromisingly hostile and alien threat. There was no frame of reference for the Borg through which Picard could understand, unlike all of the species that mankind had encounter before who had very “human” conceptions of the universe. If anything Q knew the Borg would attack humanity and wanted to prepare them directly for that and not the Dominion who, despite being run by goo people, have a very similar conception of the universe to the Federation.

[@Nom_AnorVSJedi]

It begs the question, why do the Q favor humans and the Federation?

[@LARGO125]

Now THAT is an interesting take. I'm trying to find a devil's advocate position and it's not immediately apparent. I would love to see a deep dive into this theory.

[@711desmond]

@@Nom_AnorVSJedihe found it entertaining and fun? And didn’t want Picard and the rest of the Enterprise D to die in battle most likely

[@Hakar17]

​@@Nom_AnorVSJediPersonally I think that the Q are humans is why. They're just traveling back in time to make sure that humanity reaches the point where they ascend.

[@Bilskirnir3124]

Holy mother of based! Someone who actually understands what Facsim is, and doesn't mix it up with, "When someone I don't like does an authoritarianism." Very well layed out and plainly conveyed. Hats off to you my good sir, and a good job on demystifying the evil of Fascism.

[@archades115]

Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state perfectly defines the Cardassian Union.

[@LuciferAxolotl]

If i recall, the writers had to destroy gul dukat, cause the viewers didnt see him as a villian, which worried the writers

[@marvelous971-j6m]

A lot of people mistake authoritarian conservatism with fascism to be honest.

[@nerag7459]

I feel most authoritarian conservatives would become fascists if they were allowed.

[@draochvar9646]

Coming from 40k I can tell you: People even confuse feudalism with fascism ...

[@nerag7459]

A lot of authoritarian conservatives seem like they would like to be fasc if they could

[@Quasimodo-mq8tw]

​@@draochvar9646Well 40k IS both, a Lot and to a degree. And a Lot Else, AS you could expect from a Galaxy spanimg Empire in which travel time can Take years to centuries of Realtime.

[@titusmccarthy]

A lot of conservative parties in the world which were once centre-right are now far right like the Republicans. Once they loved NATO and international organizations like the UN now they are strictly isolationists. They are also anti-immigrant and use them as a scapegoat for everything that is wrong with the world. Sounds familiar. Democrats are now in the same area of the political compass where the Republicans once were.

[@jprice6419]

I agree, Fascisms is now Coke (any soda) or Kleenex (Facial Tissue). I am glad you take time to give us a real answer in the made up world of Star Trek.

[@Relav1364]

PLS DON'T TAKE VENOM-SENPAI'S MONEY KZbin. Ok now the serious. Its interesting how much the extreme ideologies have in common with another. A strong military caste, service to the state, extensive and detailed public education, the constant external enemy. Is it the USSR, the 3rd R-ike, or the Cardassian Union? And I love the comment too in how such states, regardless of their design, are doomed to failure. Very well done.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

the main Difference between communist and Facist Ideologies is that communism has to have internationalist ambitions... the revolution must spread... (Eventually) while facism is content to sit quietly in a corner...(if its being smart)

[@Relav1364]

@venomgeekmedia9886 big if's for both, but not wrong either

[@birdmonster4586]

​@venomgeekmedia9886 I'd argue that Facism often requires an "other" to hate to bring a source of unity to the nation, and this often drives it to inevitably expand.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

@@birdmonster4586 One might add the principal of autarky in Fascist systems as the Realpolitik part of the justification of expansion, while the fear of the "Other" or external enemies and superiority of the race is the second part of the equation. One brings to mind the current North Korean regime which has diverged from communism into something different: A hereditary regime based on nationalism centered the belief that the North Koreans are the "cleanest people," and the need for Juche, or autarky.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@birdmonster4586 true but that "other" can be pretty broad. if you look at Mussolinis italy the "other" seems to be communists, and various non italians. so it can vary

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

You spoke of their being no Nazis in the Trek universe. Remember Ekos? The TOS episode, ""Patterns of Force"?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Okay yeah other than the episode where they literally raid the costume department of the ww2 movie shooting next door.

[@weldonwin]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 TOS did that a lot frankly. Piece of the Action, raid the Gangster movie costumes. Bread a Circuses, raid the Roman Epic movie costumes

[@Sephiroth144]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Or that time Archer & Co had to fight literal Nazis (with some alien assistance)

[@SanguineQuest]

TBH I think referring to the Dominion as British-style Imperialist is missing the mark. I actually think they could absolutely fit the definition of a fascist state, but at best they're a theocratic racial-supremacist autocracy

[@draochvar9646]

The Dominion seems too hands-off in the direct every-day governance of its members to be truly fascist but it's getting close. I'd classify them as a theocratic, founder-supremacist feudal Empire.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

The Dominion changes up tactics. By the end of the war sure they're Fascist buy when we first meet them. They're so hands off you can't really say that.

[@janehrahan5116]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 as I say in my comment it depends who you are, the quickening shows what they do to societies that displease them. However as I said it really depends on where you are with them. The founders are atheistic isolationist xenophobes who really just created the empire to be left alone for instance.

[@dustinherk8124]

some pink skins started calling them "spoon heads" and bad stuff happened.

[@lynngreen7978]

My favorite villains in Trek, were a ruthless military power, with a cunning intelligence agency always seeking to undermine enemies and watch the populace for disloyalty. They were called Klingons. But in the 24th century, they have strange things on their skulls, and are called "Cardassians."

[@Hartzilla2007]

@@lynngreen7978 Of course it probably would have helped if in TNG established that a bunch of Cardassian ships together was a threat like the Klingons got to cover for the fact that one on one they get their asses kicked.

[@NineWorldsFromDrew]

I’m loving that a fellow Brit is calling the Dominion “The British Empire in Space”! 😂 I don’t totally agree with you, but it’s a brilliant line regardless. The Dominion is a very specific kind of hegemonic autocracy. If fascism can be compared to autocracy - and clearly in many ways it can be - then there have been some very obvious narrative devices in Deep Space Nine which deliberately compared the Dominion to fascists. Weyoun’s suppression and censorship of Jake Sisko’s news reports from the occupied Terok Nor being a glaring example. Does that mean the Dominion are fascists? No. Does it mean some writers on the show wanted to be exceptionally simplistic, or just lazy, in expressing what kind of threat to freedom and democracy in the Federation was posed by the Dominion? Yes, invariably so. In the Dominion, the Founders have built an autocracy for the sake of power, and they wield their power for the sake of maintaining their autocracy. That’s really a simple way of putting it. And of course, the applicable narrative the female changeling reminds us of in so many of her appearances, is that the Founders maintain all of this to control solids, because they have a fear of solids being a threat to them which goes back many epochs. In this respect, they aren’t literal fascists. They’re simply an embodiment of how fear, and an acute superiority complex, can override every kind of desire for freedom. Everything that Odo learns about his people, gives him this wondrous sense that they’re “free”. But once he learns of their ambitions and agenda, he realises that they aren’t free at all - they’ve imprisoned themselves in their own grandeur, and need to control a universe that profoundly terrifies them.

[@isaackellogg3493]

They are Spartans, ruling over conquered helots. They’ve just outsourced the soldier role to the Jem’Hadar. If not for ketracel white, they’d have to be soldiers themselves.

[@NineWorldsFromDrew]

@ That’s a pretty fair comparison. I just don’t think the Founders treat their vassals exactly as the British Empire did. And there’s definitely some theocratic elements to their political structures, given that the Vorta and Jem’Hadar view the founders as gods.

[@merafirewing6591]

I wonder what does Gul Dukat think of Earth's history, in particular the three world wars? It's crazy how the Cardassians were at one point a very peaceful people until they became what they are as we all know of them since TNG and DS9. Also I like it that Cardassian early warp capable starship vaguely looks similar to the TOS era Federation starship.

[@Freddie1980]

An actual intelligent description of what Fascism actually is and you hit the nail on the head saying it's a word that's overused in today's general discourse. Knowing the history around Star Trek most fans would recognise the Carddasians as fascist villains I doubt many would argue against that point.

[@OllamhDrab]

I think it's pretty appropriate in a lot of cases today, mind you. Part of the problem is in fact that people just think it's a name to call people rather than a serious warning.

[@trajan74]

Didn't Dukat tell Sisko that the military had been in charge for 5 centuries in the episode "Defiant?" So, not a recent development. And honestly that timeline meshes better with the timeline needed to develop a culture like we see.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

i'll double check but thats an odd Retcon which makes out the military to be more competent than it deserves if it stays in power that long. bear in mind people have short memories and things can change fast. more has happened in the last 4 years than arguably the last 10

[@isaackellogg3493]

According to Memory Alpha (drawing from my own memory), the military took power in 1861, the same year as Abraham Lincoln.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

The military has run things for 500 years with the Dutapa Council as the fig leaf of representation.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 The military only needs to be marginally competent because they have the guns. But also, to be honest, for a smaller power the Cardassians haven't done that poorly. Even as the smallest "Great Power" their space is pretty large by Alpha Quadrant standards with many systems. As many populated systems as the Romulan Empire which is more than twice as large in sheer size.

[@sdmurphy315]

Lore Reloaded isn't the best bench mark for politics nor should have his opinions taken seriously.

[@SymbioteMullet]

Does he still have that obsession with federation starships having Gelato machines? I haven't watched him in a while and don't terribly want to...

[@sdmurphy315]

@@SymbioteMullet I haven't watched him in years, but he was always obnoxious and his theories always seemed either 2 dimensional and bias to his own political views.

[@samfowler2073]

Satire and Lancasters, now there's a name for a military themed comedy club.

[@kiethhammer6882]

I vaguely recall that before the military takeover of Cardassian society, they had a profoundly inept and decadent government. I remember this coming from the TNG episode where Picard is being tortured into saying he sees five lights when there is only four.

[@KashouWannabe]

Honestly one of my fave videos of yours. Plainly stated and laid out, we can link it to real world examples. very apt in the modern era. Thanks VGM, top stuff.

[@GoodOldGamer]

I appreciate your common sense take on facsism. Rare to see online these days.

[@Broockle]

I don't mean to demean but where do you see Fascism falsely depicted?

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

@@Broockle At least in American politics gets thrown around often, and other than a few examples of sub groups within the major groups people throw it around to describe what republicans and democrats are doing and/or will do during their elected terms. It's a mess that people use to trigger emotions. discriminating against transgenders and banning books? Fascists! Demanding we can't leave our homes and telling us what we can say to other people? Fascists! Both have explanations as to why pople believe those things and from the other side they see it as opression and the first boogy man they summon is "fascism" and the nationalist german sasuage party......

[@nerag7459]

@@Broockle 4chan/pol ;)

[@ExarchGaming]

the reason fascism is so overused is because of poor understanding of what it means, it's became a swap in for the term autocracy or any other form of authoritarian government. Mostly due to a very surface level of education in the united states on world war two. as the primary idealogical warfare was marxist communism vs Italian Fascism(and the offshoots it created such as the NSDAP). Infact people misuse it by referring to it as a far right idealogy, when it's more of a centrist form of authoritarianism as it's origins were a perversion of socialism which was rejected by the far left in italy and in germany. So they took it as a third way, and tried to reclaim the word socialism, by turning it in to a bastardized form of nationalism. (the word itself) It is mostly germany though that created this misunderstanding because of AH's actions as furher of Germany after winning the election. His night of long knives in which he had the leftist elements of the party purged and took a sharp turn to the right. It has left an outsized imprint on our society not quite understanding what the word is and what it means. That's why it's overused IMO.

[@alejandromolina5645]

It is amazing how people don't recognize that Fasism and Communism are different versions of the same type of government. The end goals are the same. Communist Karl Marxism used by the Soviet Union has its goal as socialism. Everything is based on that concept. Now look at the fasists whose goal is exactly the same thing. Nazis also known as "The National Socialist German Workers' Party", goals were the same exact thing as their communist enemies. Both had secret police crushing the public, both ruling philosphies were basically the same. Economic approach was a bit different where communists had total control of all companies, fasists allowed crony capitalism to exist as long as it did exactly what they wanted. In my opinion both are leftist ideals of government, where the collective national identity rules with an iron fist. Individual rights are not acceptable or allowed.

[@Mrs.Grave5433]

Finally someone who doesn’t think every system that isn’t liberal democracy is “muh ww2 baddies” Also boomers are extremely annoying on this calling anything or one that dares questions their wisdom. Acting like they faught personally in a war they weren’t even born in. Alright rant over. (Also your Augments Storyline Video should of gotten more likes)

[@Mrs.Grave5433]

Also Dominion politics would be interesting. I’m strangely curious on a Dominion Constitution. I know the founders wouldn’t have created one because they live as biologically immortal pysche goo. But “The Founder Fathers.” Is just too good a meme. Bet the Dominion is much harsher in the Gamma Quadrant considering how paranoid the Founders are. I know what we saw on the station wasn’t totalitarian but only because the Dominion needed good public image until the Alpha Quadrant was secured. Quark semi points this out to Kira and Odo during the occupation.

[@noanswer1864]

My man, you spent the first 10 minutes giving the very best description of fascism I've ever encountered on the internet. Thank you for taking the time to get it right. No one else does, and I mean that. The best part is that you did it all in the name of accurately describing Star Trek lore.

[@IAmTheAce5]

I’m not sure your categorization of fascism is so separate from conservatism, and it has to do with devotion to hierarchy. Innuendo Studios made more than a couple videos deconstructing the ideologies of fascism and conservatism and Kraut made a video on Realism with a section talking about “the destruction of modernity” both invoked and enacted by fascist movements at the time. Basically, fascism is the ideology that defines anything by its utility to the state- defines persons, families, communities, demographics, industries, and military by their service to the state. And the fascist state in question is never egalitarian, but hierarchical according to “traditional values”, especially when those values are morally irrelevant- “race”, national-birthplace, gender, sexual orientation, religion, “handicap” etc… Calling fascism a “revolutionary” ideology only makes sense if it’s a revolution _against_ modernity and any enlightened ideas of personhood as a moral end in itself, and _for_ the hierarchy of conservatism.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

it is precisely that devotion to the state that means its a product of modernity. remember after WW1 there are a lot of new Nation States that went through their first major war which discredited the old aristocracy. Fascism is a response to that

[@AluVixapede]

"That, and Lancasters" Hahahah. I wasn't expecting to laugh out loud considering the subject matter but here we are. A+++++++ Also, I quite like your summery. I firmly agree that names have meaning, specifics are important, and details matter. Again, really like your take on the politics and governments of Trek.

[@flyingfoamtv2169]

I think you should have mentioned the cases where Fascists coopted religions to serve the state.

[@scottburns2671]

For the most part Cardassia seems to be all about 'the state' without any sort of glorious leader or focal point, which is common with most real world fascist or statist dictatorships; Germany, Italy, North Korea etc. I suppose the Soviet approach was, intended, somewhat, to be about the state rather than a glorious leader, but still ended up with Stalin, so... There's probably a fair bit of Stalinism mixed in with the Cardassian state, really! Once Gul 'loves a statue' Dukat takes over, at that point things would line up much more closely with real world fascism, or even nazism. You could certainly argue Cardassia's development in DS9 somewhat mirrors Germany prior to WW2; Militarist Empire > Weak civilian government > fascist takeover led by ex officer.

[@terranadmiral6758]

The cardassians are my favorite aliens from Star Trek. And great video.

[@BernddasBrotB7]

Great video! I love the lore deep dives which aren't just shooty shooty bang-bang, and the humour definitely appeals as a fellow Brit. I always feel a bit sorry for the Carassians, the comparison with Italy definitely fits, minus living in the shadow of a mighty precursor civilisation.

[@ServantOfOdin]

It's also funny how different societies view fascism. Here in Germany, the origin country for that movie-villain (stereo)type, we have a far more strict and narrow definition than Italy, where the term itself originates. Then there is the American understanding which is again different, and the Russian one is different to either of them, and so on.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah and from what I can tell its a far less sensitive topic in Italy or Spain than in Germany. Though it probably depends who you talk to...

[@ServantOfOdin]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 This I've no clue about abroad, but here in Germany, it used to be a very heavy thing to be hurled around, but it also eroded a fair bit in latest years with the right of certain parties. Now, you're bound to be a fascist to someone. Far-right fascist or far-left fascist (yes, there are people who really think those who are against fascism are fassists themselves), fascists elites or fascist plebs, etc...

[@Interns-Eternal-Empire]

The Austrian and spanish facists liked the idea of the church having a lot of power i mean they are probaly good pals with clerical facists so not all facists are anti religion

[@dawfydd]

it is sad today the discourse is always "bad people are the worst people that ever existed" it really makes story telling harder, it makes conversation and debate harder.. and it doesn't make it easier for anyone but the bad guys! lol

[@NCC-72545A]

Okay, then I have a question, does Star Wars' Galactic Empire in its successor count as a fascist states?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

if we're using the classical definiton then yes, very yes. in expanded material they try to make them resemble the german model but that kinda falls down because executing mass Genocide while also ruling a galaxy doesn't really work. (theres a reason they waited till the war started before implementing their plans.)

[@scottyyoch3537]

"all such states will eventually fail" That's a statement of faith right there

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

hardly, they seem to fail pretty consistently

[@Chronix-]

All states eventually fail, period. 😊

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

So all such states in the variations we have experienced will fail. That isn't to say that a perpetual fascism might exsist one day, but that fascism will be one where you don't understand you in it. Im not saying there are modern governments that do this, we are fortunately still in a world were debate is common and even when an opposing side has power people arn't silenced..... even if you hear them yell all the time they are being silenced.

[@alexejfrohlich5869]

kudos for the dominion british empire comparsion -- i always wondered what would fit best but never could get a grasp on it... soviet union would work in a more abstract sense as there always was the core russian ruling class (founders), the broader minions of them in the republics (vorta), the masses of available soldiers if needed (jem hadar). but yeah, i feel like british empire fits in well there.

[@cutenerd1177]

I used to wonder why Cardassians and Romulans were not at each other’s throats. Neither is the type to want a power they don’t control in power or gaining power. And I was kinda hoping to see that fight play out.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

They were usually friendly powers. The reason being they are no where near one another. The Federation sits in-between them. Without a mutual border, or parallel interests in territories they have little reason to be rivals. On the contrary, it makes them natural allies which they have been before in lore. The Obsidian Order/Tal Shiar attack was but the most recent example of cooperation.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

Shit they teamed up again for the Battle of Cardassia.

[@qetoun]

How would you classify the Vidiians? Organ farming space-pirates?

[@davem2369]

Whilst i don't like misuse of definitions the problem is a bunch of people are fine with authoritarians or other clearly inappropriate leaders. Explained it to people and where it leads to and theyre like "so what, theyre doing what i want". Also, if people waving the red white and black thingy think the authoritarian is ok do i really need to worry about which political dedinition we're using or should i be more worried about the inevitable journey and destination which is pretty much the same

[@Revkor]

I have describe the major races this way. Klingons were clearly Commmunist in TOS with kor as a party elite. by TNG it turned into more imperial japan. Romulans. ROME, enough said. Cardassian were facsist but do agree more itlaiin fascist then nazi with a bad of soviet union. Borg. the new Communist. Dominion I have said a style of imerpial;ism but the dark side ofthe old British empire would agree with.

[@_Omega_Weapon]

@19:00 plenty of fascist regimes have used religion as a means to their ends (irl). Not for Cardassia obviously.

[@the_Kutonarch]

​@@colonyofrochellaprimeExcept Franco's regime wasn't exclusively Fascist. It was a coalition that included Fascists, but also faithful Catholics, Monarchists, Carlists, capitalists, etc. The defence and promotion of Catholicism wasn't merely to placate the masses, it was a central pillar that held Franco's coalition together, it was using him as much as he was using it.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

It's also worth pointing out that the Spanish have always been rabidly catholic its what prompted them to rise up against the french in the napoleonic wars.

[@soltierney535]

​@@colonyofrochellaprimethe Catholic Church in Spain took and sold 300,000 children of francos political enemies, they did similar things for Pinochet in Chile..

[@rc8937]

@@the_Kutonarch Yes, this was even reflected in the new uniforms of the Falange which included the Falangist blue shirt, military belts, and the red Carlist beret.

[@HellbirdIV]

I just want to say that you missed an opportunity to play a bunch of WW2 German stock footage and playing some dramatic royalty free music over it. Actually, with your accent I kind of hope you'll someday consider parodying Mark Felton, just talking about some of the fictional lore of Star Trek instead of weird WW2 anecdotes. I think it'd be fun. EDIT: Oooh, maybe talk about the Na'kuhl Time Travel Nazi collaboration, or the Ekosian Nazis. To keep on theme.

[@mikepeterson9362]

Based on the title, I hope this video goes all the way back to Bruce Jenner's Olympic runs -- at LEAST as far back as his appearances on Wheaties boxes. No story about Cardassian Fascism could be adequately told if you don't start there. Gosh I hope I'm not disappointed when I push Play.

[@radaro.9682]

The definition being used is, I think "populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition" if I may quote Merriem-Webster. So a King that rules autocratically while instituting a brutal regim of stigmatization of a particular minority group, especially while extoling the state above or at the expense of the individual, would be fascist. So yes, you can have a fascistic Barony or fascistic democratically elected President/Chancellor. It does not have to specify not be a hereditary monarchy or other defined method for line of succession. That only determines who rules not how they rule. I believe the beginning of the video is unclear in fascism being able to take many forms and that, while using a word to the point it means nothing is a risk, it's important to not avoid labeling a thing because a word that applies or can apply is overused by others. We combat that overuse by being very clear in definition. But always call a fascist a fascist. Just like you should always punch them.

[@CuteFuzzyWeasel]

5:30 get it, got it, come on man I need to get to work here in a minute

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Fancy seeing you here...

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

So I agree with most points and disagree with a few. Firstly I do believe a revolutionary Ideal can have a conservative backing. Nationalism is a very important part of fascism, its one of the things that helps separate between many past governmental forms and modern Ideas. To believe in the state you need to have an strong Idea of what that state is, and generally considering your culture or people as superior to another is a also a discriminatory Idea. It's one of the reasons I say I'm a proud American, but I am by no means a nationalist. The nationalist feelings are often defined by what we feel our nation SHOULD be, not by what it currently is, and that is the bread and butter of a fascist regime. That's where the conservatism lies in the revolution, although often as a tool as new power symbols are created to supplant the old, it is still a vehicle of change. Those conservative values are as quickly discarded if needed at the first possible signs of no longer aiding the continued power of the state. In addition, I think you downplay the use of religion in these movements. They also use religion, in some cases old romanticized versions of the religion, in some cases deals with powerful religious movements to solidify their rule. Almost all nationalist fascisms that have arisen cite following the "classic religion" or have used former religious imagery and thought to stir up the people. Spanish fascism used classic Christianity to justify their side in the civil war to fight the other revolutionists.... basically with just modern Spain burning in the process. Germany used this with both calling to classic religions, or at least Wagnarian versions of those religious tales, and making a deal with the catholic church to help grow the state. None of the religious ideas would survive clashing with the state but would be used as needed. In the end you only really forgot extremist nationalism, something oft forgotten about today as everyone in the world seems to either be nationalist or antinationalist, not just people living under a government. Other than that, spot on, good stuff as always.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Thanks. Interesting point on Religion obviously I said for the cardassians religion is not part of the Facsist vision. You refer to Spain which I think is the exception because Franco probably wasn't a Fascist till he won the war. But if you look at Italy its very much secular, and with regards to the National socialists does making up a obscure neo-pagan religion count especially because even people in the party thought it was weird.

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I agree with you, and while the Cardassian people were said to be a spiritual and artistic people once if any religion was around it was probably pushed aside as anti-state, or at least not Pro state. Fascist examples we have in history almost all have nuance to them. In the end I think it can be summed up by a network of state supporting industries that help keep the populace stuck in their nationalist fervor. If religion can be used it will, in the case of the Italians there was kind of just an assumption that they would be catholic, it was the religion of the late roman period after all(at least they see it as that continuation after the schism) and Italy was to be the new Rome, so as long as the religion didn't step out of line they would just be accepted. That's all a part of the network and seductive nature of nationalism especially in the extreme. Your example does define the Cardassians very well, and is used well. It was intended to be a fascist state and it is a good example of one where they make great baddies in a TV show but we can also have heart wrenching characters against the norm..... or those like Damar and his nationalism about what Cardassia is changing by the time of his uprising.

[@johanobesusfatjohn5836]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I must reiterate @CinnamonKnightEntertainment's reference to nationalism. It isn't simply loyalty to the State, but to an idealized concept of the People/Nation, however that's defined. But fascists insist that the People is under threat from within. The Nation is contaminated with "those people," minorities that are both pathetically inferior to the People and a terrible threat to it. It's true that, depending on how the People is defined, minorities do not need to be racial. For example, religious nationalists say that only their own faithful are real (Nation)-ans In the case of Cardassia though, I doubt the Bajorans would ever be accepted as part of the same Nation. At best there might be "good ones" that know their place, but nationalism _needs_ internal threats to maintain it's legitimacy. Rebellious colonized "terrorists" make a perfect internal threat, whether Bajoran or Maquis.

[@matthewbarabas3052]

fascism is just treated as an umbrella term. you could delve into more specific kinds of it, but its all authoritarian.

[@hmsverdun]

5:57: I think that mockery against such people is the most powerful weapon: well that and Lancasters. Do we count that as a Venomism like Drachinifel has his Drachisms because it sure sounded like one?

[@haroldchase4120]

What do you make of Spanish fascism ?

[@josephking1006]

Its a good video, but one thing I note you place Fascism among a set of revolutionary ideologies where revolutionary national change is the political goal. You then note that some juntas embrace fascism as a way of keeping power so the money keeps flowing to them. So if we're already admitting that a desire for revolutionary nationalist change doesn't motivate all facsist regimes... isn't it possible that all fascist regimes are actually motivated by greed and they use ritualized violence to keep people reoccupied as they pursue corrupt self enrichment? Other than the motivation behind fascist regimes this is a good video. The motivations you describe are a little contradictory.

[@draochvar9646]

Just because an ideology has certain motivations for coming into existence (like the revolutionary character of Fascism) that doesn't mean someone else, unrelated to said ideology's conception, can't later come along and copy its playbook, without actually giving a damn about why said playbook was written in the first place. You could say it is the difference between a true believer in the ideology and an opportunist using the ideology for their own benefit.

[@josephking1006]

@draochvar9646 once again begging the question, how do we know it was ever revolutionary to begin with. Take Mussolini, the first fascist to come to power. He was opportunist from the beginning.

[@MIMALECKIPL]

Considering the ultimate fate in borg collective, cardassian regime, romulan paranoia, and federations certain shortcommings being a Tholian is best.

[@classic.cameras]

The Cardiasimns do have an amazing uniform. Only second to the Kilingons.

[@NeoThomist-sd1ue]

Well done video your articulation of the subject matter was very lucid.

[@darienevans6229]

next the feudal warrior clans called the Klingon empire and the citizen republic called the the federation

[@Hartzilla2007]

To be fair the TOS Klingons did kind of came off more Fascist than Communist. I mean they are more like the Cardassian than the TNG Klingons.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

idk thery're pretty interchangable honestly. Kor was very clearly aristocratic though, and they have women on their ships just like starfleet.

[@Revkor]

no TOS klingon were clear Communist but evlvoed into more imeprial japan by TNG

[@Hartzilla2007]

@ KOR: Sentimentality, mercy. The emotions of peace. Your weakness, Captain Kirk. The Klingon Empire shall win. Think of it, as we sit here, in space above us the destiny of the galaxy will be decided for the next ten thousand years. Can I offer you a drink? We can toast the victory of the Klingon fleet. KOR: Today we conquer. If some day we are defeated, well, war has its fortunes good and bad. Do you know why we are so strong? Because we are a unit. Each of us is part of the greater whole, always under surveillance. Even a commander like myself, always under surveillance, Captain. If you will note. Yeah I’m not seeing it.

[@Chronix-]

Most people use "fascism" when they mean either totalitarianism or authoritarianism. I've always gone by Umberto Eco's "14 points of fascism" essay. It's definitely worth a read.

[@Nom_AnorVSJedi]

Cardassians are fascist, what does that make Tzenkethi? From the books, the Tzenkethi are the ultimate Caste based society with workers bred and genetically engineered for specific jobs. Horrific.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

A bioengineering Fuedal Caste system. Certainly evil but distinct from fascism.

[@nealsterling8151]

Excellent video!

[@Margin4error]

Quick note - aristocratic rule and fascism are perfectly compatible. Fascist Italy was a good example of this. The king remained as head of state throughout the 20 year rule of his appointed fascist govt. It was do much so a royal fascist dictatorship that upon its fall, Italy ended monarchy to rid itself of the fascists.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@Margin4error I think it's fairer to say fascism overtook monarchy there

[@RusticFederalist]

Je suis le Central Command! Le Central Command, c'est moi! The real obsidian order was the friends we made along the way.

[@Ferox2121]

I may be wrong, but if i remember it correctly then the Cardassians were a rather religious and peaceful society first. However, their world was scarce with natural resources leading to a large collapse once they went into space and had basically nothing left on Cardassia Prime. This brought up an authoritarian government that sold out most of their cultural heritage to build up the military and take other worlds by force. This went not that great at first, leading to a short period of democracy, where at the end they fought a more succesful 2nd war, in wich there was a military coup that overthrew the democratic government and installed the regime we saw in TNG and DS9. This regime then went on to grab more worlds around them, like Bajor, in order to exploit them and bolster their homeworld and further build up the military. The fascism part come into play once the late Cardassians think of themselves to be superior then the other races, mainly those that they have conquered - like the Bajorans. The second part lies in their veneration of the state and/or the military as a whole, rather then a singe idividual.

[@foresta-2684]

A very well and thought out video : )

[@jonathannz10]

4 minute ad on this video is too long

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Blame youtube. Was that not skippable?

[@titusmccarthy]

Get an Ad Blocker

[@AaronTelfordUK]

This is a brilliant video 😀

[@FrakkinGaiusBaltar]

So the Cardassians look up at the space Romans and they want to be as strong as powerful as them but only end up being a groteque, monstrous and weaker parody of them... *They really are the space Italians*

[@t3h51d3w1nd3r]

If they demonetize you, you could reedit the video and call fascism "bunch of sticks-ism" seeing as the word fascis or fasces is where it comes from.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

What's the Italian for a bundle of dry Spaghetti?

[@t3h51d3w1nd3r]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Oberthi-phaseretti..........obviously

[@seltin1988]

what are your takes on politics venom? have you chosen a side? are you in the middle?

[@deamondeathstone1]

Also, those vain bastards got their uniforms designed by Hugo Boss. So they look evil and yet stylish.

[@pauld5265]

You said that people shouldn't call everyone they disagree with fascist. I'm just curious what you would suggest people do? Actually come up with some sort of counter argument? Or if their ideas are not getting the desired results do a little self reflection? Maybe admit that despite all their good intentions their ideas are not working and try just talking to the big meanies who have different ideas to find a solution? That's just crazy talk.

[@wonttakemein272]

American politics 101

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Reminds me of when Mike and rich from Redlettermedia discussed the episode "first contact" because the president on that planet was so much better than modern politicians

[@theamazingmarlbito6293]

But how many lights do they have in their houses?

[@PasOdMater]

I don't dislike the Cardassians because of their politics, I dislike them because they're just so bad in ruling. How can you have slavery and resource issues in a country with freaking replicators?!

[@shmee123ful]

I think people have confused fascism for authortisem and this is nothing new lest of all in trek I remember tom Paris from STvoy telling seven when the crew were trapped in a hologram verson of ww2. That the nazis were tge borg of their day. And that was always a werid arse pull.

[@joeg1915]

Waiting for Venom to cover when Tony Soprano took over from Captain Jellico during Season 5 of TNG...kzbin.info/www/bejne/opDWnqR5ic5_fNUsi=ck8LPHHqYi3if9Of

[@DStrormer]

"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." -Robert Paxton

[@badwolf66]

The Ultimate Space N4z1s are of course The Daleks.

[@UniversalChallenge4454]

well i think facist just a buzzword like communist in start of the coldwar

[@MercShame]

Its rrefreshing to see a trektuber that understands the differences with fascism. Unlike ones like steve shives, who is very "if you dont agree with me you are a fascist "

[@Broockle]

I mean... what do you call the brainrot that is taking the western world by storm? They all tend to spread misinformation, promote xenophobic agenda and always praise dictatorships.

[@josephking1006]

LOL, when does he say that?

[@MercShame]

@josephking1006 he has called people fascist in the comments that all they did was disagree and tell him he is using terms wrong. Steve is so far left that he has said that trump supporters need to kill themselves in a video and had to take the video down.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

Steve Shives is rather hysterical. He is on an extreme end of the political spectrum.

[@Mrs.Grave5433]

>Thrawn pfp Cultured.

[@davepowers3194]

6:00 Mosquitoes too! Don’t forget the Wooden Wonder!

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

i imagine the design process went something like "i say jenkins do you remember those paper planes we made at school..."

[@davepowers3194]

@ “Y’know…if we go reeeaally fast, we don’t really need the guns…”

[@gorbachev-1986]

18:10 Isn't that a New Labour slogan from the 90's? 🤣🤣

[@OneManPowerTrip]

5 minutes in a 20 minute video and I'm wondering when are we going to start talking about Star Trek? 🫤🤷‍♂️

[@slinkerdeer]

Video starts at 9:30 Joking lol

[@titusmccarthy]

Fascist! :D

[@matthewdarcey8827]

Great video and I love the comprehensive analysis. Fascism is incredibly relevant at the moment

[@danielyeshe]

Education, education, education? Are you saying Tony Blair was secretly a Cardassian?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Who knows but you can't tell me Rishi Surnak wasn't a ferengi. The lobes on that man.

[@danielyeshe]

@venomgeekmedia9886 I just Googled "rishi sunak ferengi" someone actually has done a mock up of him.

[@reecewestmoreland6137]

Fairy swordfish are also rather effective on floating fascists

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

apart from 'Giulio Cesare's' literal plot armour...

[@reecewestmoreland6137]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 put her against Warspite A plot armour duel for the ages

[@nerag7459]

Each of the Houses in Dune arrange the political and social structures on their worlds differently. The Harkonnens may well arrange political structures on Gedi Prime in a fascist manner, by imposing dictatorial power, government control of industry and commerce, and the forcible suppression of opposition, often at the hands of the military or a secret police force. In short, the way Harkonnens rule Gedi Prime seems a bit more fascist than the way the Atreides rule Caladan.

[@draochvar9646]

Authoritarianism=\=Fascism though, which is the point Venom was probably trying to get at.

[@nerag7459]

@@draochvar9646 Of course not. My point is dune is a multi planet setting. Harkonnens controlled Arrakis and you wouldn't say the Fremen were fascist.

[@StevenHughes-hr5hp]

They were not modeled after the Kardashian family?

[@AndrewDayMortgage]

I really love your content! But your anti-spaghetti stance is not my favorite.

[@badwolf66]

Hey Lore, those fascists are talking about you again :P

[@frozenglaicericet-pose6104]

At 5:46..."Predictive Programming"?🤔

[@garomcfbgdd3211]

Is Cardassian Politics the cure for Male loneliness?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

"Gibs Bajoran waifu"

[@RusticFederalist]

😄

[@davidponseigo8811]

My family is still living in Sicily and they are very proud people and many are members of a certain organization but be careful what you say about my people. I'm just messing with you.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Gabagool? ;)

[@vortega472]

I felt like The Next Generation often wrote itself into holes with a war with this race, a war with that race with not long-lasting repercussion - and that includes a technologically weak race like the Talarian. I don't think they anticipated people doing deep dives like this channel. Re-working the history - it makes no sense that the Federation didn't wipe the Talarian's off the map. Yes, there are "explanations" as to why - the golden age of exploration and peaceful council etc etc. No they would have wiped them out, and colonized their worlds. So writers beware, one little thing might be picked apart in logic years later.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

Even being 100 years behind doesn't mean conquering the Talarians wouldn't be very costly. Tech isn't everything, in fact, for most of the history of warfare it has only conveyed a small advantage. War is so much more than trading card stats on starships. A 100 year old phaser can kill, and low-tech solutions can render many Starfleet advantages moot. Ground combat against the fanatical Talarians would be incredibly bloody. Like the Japanese Home Islands in WWII bloody. It isn't worth it.

[@RusticFederalist]

The Afghanistan of Spaaaaace.

[@chemputer]

While I agree fascism has been overused, I do not think it's a useless term, based on the video you seem to have a strange view of what fascism is, especially during different portions of the video.... I wouldn't accuse you of strawmanning but it nearly seems like it. (Your definition was missing a few key ideas but okay, at least you eventually defined the term) A society having a hereditary monarchy doesn't in any way preclude it from also being fascistic. Here's the dictionary definition of fascism: "a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition" centralized government headed by a dictatorial leader (that CAN be a monarch, and the monarch can be chosen through heritary means!) I do think people need to use better terms, such as "white Christian nationalist" when that is more appropriate, but yes.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

if you mean Fascistic as in "similar to Fascism" sure i can agree to that. but the loyalty structures of the two are very different in Fascism everyone Serves the State in monarchy the state serves the ruling family you swear loyalty to the head of the state, not the state itself. and yes politcial thought has evolved since the mid 20th century so we should adapt terminology.

[@janehrahan5116]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 also western communists (some of them directly soviet agents) wanted to distance facism and national socialism from socialism and communism and have been actively poluting discourse for almost a century now.

[@Rick79LUFC]

A little like a HOI4 research tree 😅

[@theilluminatedone9214]

Cardassians always struck me as Stalinist, not Fascist. I could be wrong.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

I mean it's an explicitly military government. Stalin was very careful to keep the military away from the government

[@theilluminatedone9214]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Stalin made himself a Marshal and, if I'm not mistaken, that's not the only time government and military overlapped in his regime. They further overlap if one considers the NKVD a military force.

[@Revkor]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I think its a lit combo. primarily as you say italian facists but has a bit of the soviet Union to venerate the state above all and show trails

[@Mrs.Grave5433]

Stalin did fear/purged his generals. Ironically Stalin’s move of rigging elections of Eastern European governments, invade Poland along with Germany (a LOT of people forget about this.) and use the war to secure “liberated” countries was very Cardassian in political strategy. (Yes I know Romulan as well) He also killed more people than anyone else in all of human history with the exception of Mao Zedong. I should look into the Chinese cultural revolution. All that culture and history lost.

[@janehrahan5116]

All totalitarian socialist governments (the facists and nazis were different types of socialist) will have similar hallmarks. Any attempt to make a facist or bolshevik state that isn't a 1-1 carbon copy will likely incidentally blend all the totalitarian socialist states together to some degree.

[@shanenolan5625]

They are a little Italian esq . Switching sides .