The Other Queen Who Never Was | House Of The Dragon & Game Of Thrones Analysis, History & Lore

[@JoseGonzalez-pn5zl]

Poor Rhaena she had a tough life. Her father died she wasn’t there. Your husband died against her uncle later husband. She definitely was a queen just not the way she should have been..If you ask me Dorne got it right but then again when Mors Martell died Nymeria was still letting her blade do the talking so she earn ever bit of that title.

[@WorldOfWesteros]

I really do find Rhaena a fascinating character, i kinda think she gets overlooked and forgotten by a lot of fans due to the impact of people like Princess Rhaenys and Rhaenyra. If they ever bring this era to screen i'd love to see her in live action.

[@Pap602]

Rhaena, who was Aegon the uncrowned lived a terrible life. She was forced to marry Maegor who was the man that killed her husband and then was married to Borys Baratheon, who ended up getting her pregnant at a late age and he choosed to have her killed to save his son. There were also conflicts between her Jahaerys when she came back from Dragonstone after Jahaerys gave it to her. She was one of the most tragic cases in Fire and Blood.

[@Pap602]

She was also a little crazy too. Also, the whole history between her and Androw Farman, who he poisoned most of the women in Dragonstone after jumping to his death.

[@VengefulPurity]

@@Pap602that was her mother Alyssa Velaryon who was married to the Baratheon man and cut open. She was a tragic one too. Queen who lost her husband (weak as he was) had children killed, held hostage etc. A lot of them are tragic.

[@Pap602]

@VengefulPurity yes I think you're right

[@MykeAgroa]

If female dragons are linked to there female riders it makes since why Dreamfyre was laying tons of eggs on fair isle, because Rhaena was definitely getting freaky with Elissa Farman. Syrax was another notably fertile dragon, Rhaenerya herself given birth to 6 children.

[@J_ads2000]

Omg. Syrax probably laid Vermax, Arrax, Tyraxes, Stormcloud, Morning and Viserys unhatched egg. Rhaenyra had Jace, Luke, Joffrey, Aegon, Viserys and Visenya. Both had 5 healthy children and 1 that never got to live. The parallels are crazy. (I assume Moondancer is Vhagar and Caraxes offspring).

[@MykeAgroa]

@ YESS! Remember Rhaenerya even offered Alicent an egg for Aemond (before he claimed vhagar) when Syrax brings another clutch. I think Meyles and caraxies came from Dreamfyre. And Syrax and seasmoke from sliverwing, her rider Alysanne gave birth to 13 kids.

[@sweet1661]

I’ve always felt that Rheana had one of the saddest life’s next to Aegon III, Viserys II and Daeron the Drunken😔

[@MiaDeCristofaro]

I want Fire and Blood part 2 because I'd love to hear more about the other Queens Who Never Were, Daena and Aelora

[@emilybarclay8831]

Daena was queen consort but she was never in line to be queen regnant. Aelora would be an interesting story tho. The mystery surrounding what happened to her brother and what happened at that ball with the rat, the hawk and the pig is fascinating and rife for some horrible revelations

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

​@@emilybarclay8831deana was in line for the throne baelor annulled their marriage so she was no longer queen consort, after his death she could have been queen regent but visarys 2 interfered and took the throne himself which is why I actually think Deana killed him instead of Aegon.

[@MiaDeCristofaro]

@emilybarclay8831 So, if women's claims were taken more seriously, Daena was next in line after Daeron I and Baelor I, and if Aegon III's line had been the one they stuck with, it would have been her as Queen Regnant. But because she really had no allies after being locked in the Maiden Vault for 10 years and because she already had a bastard, it seemed like swapping over to Viserys II and his line was easier.

[@MiaDeCristofaro]

@@emilybarclay8831 but i am SO curious about the "mishap" between Aelora and Aelor.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

@MiaDeCristofaro yea that's basically the reason why she was passed over

[@lasloapollo4312]

It seems thet Rhaena was building support for herself to get the throne for herself and dispose of Jaehaerys and Allysanne. But I think she was too traumatised to be effective.

[@J_ads2000]

She wanted to be the “Queen” without the “Kingslanding” aspect to royal life. It felt like she truly despised that city after the war.

[@lasloapollo4312]

@J_ads2000 i think she wanted a lesbian harem.

[@suciojay1604]

This further makes the case for Danearys’ claim to rule. Despite being the next in Aerys II’s line, she has the might and will to take her throne. It’s Maegor method along with her rightful claim.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

With the way things are going there really isn't any other way for her to take the throne other then conquest.

[@MiaDeCristofaro]

Poor Rhaena...she needed someone to help her press her claim when she was so exhausted. She had no support...it must have hurt that her mother and siblings didnt back her when Aegon had sacrificed his life and Rhaena had to sacrifice her freedom and her safety and her body in the fight against Maegor. I like Jaehaerys, but he didn't do what Rhaena had to do.

[@redadmiralofvalyria867]

I mean, he and his queen DID suffer from maegor's rule. It just wasn't the same way Rhaena suffered from Suffering is still suffering after all

[@prophetchosen862]

I will maintain to my dying day Jaehaerys I started most of the problems that would plague House Targaryen. It is entirely possible he did not support Daenerys’ or Rhaenys’ claim to the throne so that he could protect his own claim in the eyes of history, as he had already ruled for nearly half a century. Jaehaerys letting the lords vote at the great council would give the houses, such as Hightower, the thought to rule the throne. Letting them vote took the matter of succession out of the hands of the king, now making it a public affair. Jaehaerys let dragons leave House Targaryen and join House Velaryon. He also let Daemon, who had claimed a dragon by this point, marry into and “become” House Royce. This removes the Targaryen’s “monopoly” on dragons, their greatest asset that allowed them to maintain control. Literally two generations after Rhaenys married into the Velaryons you had the Dance of The Dragons. Jaehaerys was not a great father, and while that isn’t needed to be a good king, it certainly helps. He failed everyone of his kids in some way. He kicked Vaegon out of the succession, only to later reportedly ask him to take the throne. This of course without possibly letting him claim a dragon. He would “gift” Maegelle to the faith. Seara would be allowed to dalliance until it suddenly becomes his problem, only to censor her. After Saera, he would punish his other daughters by extension. The one that irritates me the most is Vissera. He promised her to the Theomore Manderley, the old man who had children her age. Vissera’s children wouldn’t have been in line for anything. Jaehaerys wasted a perfectly good marriage alliance. Daella would be married off as soon as possible. Overall, while Aegon V failed in his plans, he still understood family better than Jaehaerys I.

[@renaldocargill3800]

So true it's crazy how much he messed up throughout his rule and set the right pieces for the dance. Funny how the maesters and lords love him till the current timeline.

[@zardsire2012]

Yes, Targaryen aceptionalism , ended with Maegor, allowing others dragons and influence on the kings allowed a second son of a minor house, (not Lord Paramount) usurp the throne to continue the precedent set by Jaehearys. That is also why all of Westeros loved him and Alysane, all he did benefited the country and not the House. His roads and small folk reforms could have be done by any kings, not just by a dragon riding half-god.

[@hectormiranda1088]

Not really, Jaehaerys I was crown due to him being the one who actually pushed his claim to the throne against Maegor I (something Rhaena never did) It's never stated when did Corlys' kids claim their dragons (for all we know it could've been during Viserys I since he was a lot more lax in that aspect) Alysanne was the one who arranged Daemon's marriage (back then he was the second son of a second son with nothing to inherited, by marrying lady Royce he would've created a new Targaryen cadet branch), he and his kids wouldn't have been of house Royce Viserra's marriage was also arranged by Alysanne (Jaehaerys I himself said that he wanted nothing to do with marriages anymore and refused to intervene) All of Jaehaerys' kids were given dragon eggs in their cradles and noone was ever forbidden to claim a dragon (except Saera and only AFTER her whole scandal was known) Jaehaerys I didn't "kick Vaegon out of succesion", he only sent him to the Citadel and let him do as he pleased (many nobles have been there to study without taking the vows: Lyonel Strong, Oberyn Martell, Hothel Umber); Vaegon chose to become a maester because he liked books, disliked people and didn't want to marry anyone Magaelle wasn't "gifted" to the faith she joined on her own Finally, Daella's case (although tragic) was relatively understandable: all her older siblings (Aemon, Baelon, Alyssa) had already married at her age and there was no precedent of a young Targaryen dying of childbirth (she was the first). To put it simple, it's like a modern father asking his daughter to study or get a job once she's a grown up instead of just letting her live in the house as a freeloader

[@J_ads2000]

True but it was Aegon the conqueror who started this trend of not speaking out for women. He could have made it clear that Rhaena came before Maegor but didn’t. Probably due to Visenya being his elder sister.

[@J_ads2000]

@@hectormiranda1088 Rhaena never pushed her claim against Jaehaerys but Maegor did. It’s the reason he married her in the first place. How could Jaehaerys argue that Maegor is illegitimate when his elder sibling Rhaena was queen. To usurp Maegor would also mean usurping his elder sister. In the end it didn’t matter as Rhaena was too traumatised to rule from Kingslanding anyway.

[@jeffcordova9633]

For the watch & the lord commander !!! Brother Bittersteel!! The Queens who never were is a fascinating subject

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

1st to take the Black for House Blackfyre 🗡 What about Queen Mother Daena Targaryen?

[@WorldOfWesteros]

We do touch upon her a bit, specifically how her claim was so easily overlooked thanks to the dance of the dragons

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

@@WorldOfWesteros Glorious , thank you as always for all your hard work.

[@lukebarroso449]

Honestly Daena the Defiant along with her sisters had a pretty rough time especially under Baelor's reign. I like Baelor personally, but him imprisoning his sisters in a vault was the worst thing he did aside from kicking out all the prostitutes and their children.

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

@lukebarroso449 They really did have a terrible time. I like Baelor as well he did some impressive stuff even some of the bad stuff he did was interesting because to me, Baelor kinda gives off the vibe that he had the Targaryen feelings but felt sinful and tried to pray away the Targaryen tendencies. Good to see you as always and hope you are doing wonderfully. To You and To The King!!!!! 🍷

[@lukebarroso449]

@@aegorbittersteel2154 I agree. Also thank you Ser and I pray are doing well. To You and To The King! 🍻

[@madambutterfly1997]

I do feel bad for her in the extent of how while staying with Lord Lannister he essentially plotted to have her marry one of his bastards so that way the Lannisters could have dragon riders of their own

[@gustavoadolfomorenoyanes4514]

Justice for Aerea

[@robrussell7828]

hope we see all of this on the screens at some point in my lifetime

[@eansilva5473]

I wonder if when Rhaena was arguing with Alysanne she meant that her younger sister stole her throne as queen. Maybe she thought as the older sister she still deserved to be in a leading role and felt undermined by her beloved queen little sister.

[@Jackson_Fitz]

I believe that this is once again proof that the laws in Westeros are very hypocritical, but they’re only used for male preferences. As for House Targaryen, they continue to play Westeros and their own House with problems and lines of succession crisis. There are individuals who are to arrogant, too greedy, self-centered or so envious they don’t see each other as family. They see each other as opposition and that’s also the case for Westrose, they always pin family against family and they condemn anyone for Kinslaying. Rhaena and Rhaenys are the two women within the royal family that are overlooked primarily because of their gender they would’ve made better queens if someone or the entire realm gave them the opportunity. I feel for Rhaena, she suffers due to the actions of her grandfather Aegon, her father Aenys, her uncle Maegor and now her brother Jaehaerys.

[@pattonramming1988]

Regardless of whatever succession method you subscribe to the fact remains that without a clear law of succession an event such as the Dance of Dragons was inevitable while precedent is strong it cannot overrule the King's will We must also remember that any ruler needs the strength to hold their throne and the realm together else chaos ensues such as during the faith uprising and the ascension of Maegor I proves that any doubt in the succession will be settled in fire and blood as has happened several times during the Targaryen dynasty The fact that Visenya questions the succession could likely indicate that House Targaryen didn't have a clear law of succession even before the Doom of Valyria given that the Freehold most likely functioned as a series of warring city-states and mercantile republics as we are not given the names of any strong central authority figures it may be that the last dragonlords were the first to establish a strong centralized state

[@franciscotenjogaitan]

Could you bring us the link of the map, please?

[@DarkIllusia]

I agree GRRM make it so there are no easy answers to how everything should pan out. When a person shows up that might definitely answers some of the questions they normaly end up dead, ignored or disappeared. Its a little disappointing. Thank you for explaining the reason why some of these women had valid claim. Some really don't get it. I honestly think the family was F from beginning.

[@kalifogg6610]

I think that the discussion of whether or not Rhaena was a lesbian or a bisexual very interesting. I tend to lean more towards she was more likely a lesbian and was just doing her duty as a wife to have children with her husband. But, with how things turned out, her first husband killed and forced to marry her second one and endured rape and torture at his hands it’s impossible to know for sure if she was a lesbian or a bisexual who no longer wanted sex with men.

[@truetory6231]

The idea that Rhaena was meant to be queen is based on equal primogeniture. However in Westeros, Dorne alone recognises equal primogeniture. In the other Kingdoms, royal succession is based on agnatic primogeniture, therefore given that Dorne was not yet part of the realm, Dornish custom is irrelevant. The fact is Rhaena was never the heir, the line of succession after Aenys comprised of his 3 sons by order of age and since Aegon and Viserys were already dead then by law Jaehaerys was the legitimate king, he didn't usurp the Iron Throne from anybody.

[@g.m.5789]

I won’t lie, but I would give an arm and a leg for a pov of what happened at the time of Rhaena’s marriage to Maegor

[@alfieingrouille1528]

I wonder what would have happened if the marriage between her and maegor was infact agreed upon by her parents?

[@WorldOfWesteros]

I think it would all depend if Maegor could manage to father a child. If he and Rhanea married and had children i think things turn out quite differently

[@philippeblais8594]

The faith would have thrown a fit over the incestuous marriage. As the doctrine of exceptionalism was only put into effect a few years into Jaehaerys' reign.

[@magister343]

@@philippeblais8594 They definitely did not approve of brother-sister marriages, but marrying and aunt or uncle wasn't actually that taboo in Westeros. The only example that comes to mind right now is between Starks, so it would be under the Old Gods instead of the New. Plenty of followers of the Faith marry first cousins though.

[@philippeblais8594]

@@magister343 Yes, but when Visenya -in her hopes of having her son Maegor moved up in the line of succession- suggested marrying Rhaena to Maegor. The high septon warned that such a match would be considered blasphemy. And Aegon was wise enough not to piss off the faith. So the faith had no tolerance for nieces marrying uncles or nephews marrying aunts.

[@mike.n.n.7723]

​@@philippeblais8594I honestly think that was just an excuse to keep the Targaryens divided and for the Faith to have more influence over the Throne Because what happened immediately after the Faith refused the match? A 13 year old Maegor was married to a 24 year old Ceryse Hightower, who just happened to be the niece of the then High Septon

[@DVMightyMouse]

They were not about to give the realm to another family just to make Rhaenys queen. That would've made Corlys king from behind the curtain.

[@J_ads2000]

They could have agreed to carry on the Targaryen name. The bloodline would be no different if Rhaenyra was set to marry Laenor years later anyway.

[@carlrood4457]

This is why I'm annoyed by people calling Stannis the rightful king. He lost at the Battle of the Blackwater. Joffrey (technically) won. It's about military and political power, not who you're relatives are in the end. With Jon and (f)Aegon, Daenerys will be in a similar situation.

[@zardsire2012]

Yes, they will say he is king by blood, but when you mention the Targaryens, they say it is the Baratheon’s throne by conquest. But that would mean that Joffrey and Tommen are rightful kings because they defeated Stannis in the Battle of the Blackwater.

[@J_ads2000]

I can’t wait for Dany to come with fire and blood. Just the thought of dragons above the skies of Dragonstone and Kingslanding again is so nostalgic and I’m not even a character in their world.

[@ltyrell75]

Who had a better claim to the throne before Bobby B aka Robert

[@lawrencereid2767]

Castle 🖤

[@alexanderreick2419]

Everything from what we’ve seen from fire and blood tells me Hana would not have made a good queen. She was vindictive, paranoid, and cruel.

[@coreycanham2330]

The queen in the west

[@Vanny1980]

I saw a post on the subreddit where ppl were genuinely trying to blame jaehaerys for the succession crisis. Saying that he was the one who set the precedent for male primogenitor.

[@SelphieTheNutter]

Jaeherys was to blame, until he passed over Rhaenys, there was no law that prevented women from claiming the throne. Maegor was ironically the only one that made a woman his heir. Everyone else prior to Jaeherys just avoided the issue due to how many problems the Targayans where facing after conquering Westeros. Opting instead to solve the issue by continuing to marry brother and sister. Since the Targayans where successfully keeping the faith of the 7 in check in regards to their incest. They clearly where'nt willing to risk another rebellion so soon, by addressing succession laws that they (in their eyes) had under control due to incest.

[@J_ads2000]

@@SelphieTheNutter I’d say Aegon the conqueror was to blame. He never put Rhaena before Maegor which muddied the water. Probably because he had an elder sister (just like Jaehaerys). The great council of 101 was a vote, Jaehaerys didn’t make a decision just like Aegon the conqueror didn’t make a final decision.

[@ayiza8511]

All this just proves Rhaenyra never had a claim, and Viserys is a fool. Rhena, Rheanys and Visenya were all firstborn woman and all of them were passed over.

[@alfieingrouille1528]

What about Daena the defiant?

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Exactly!!!!Good to see you again hope you are doing great

[@alfieingrouille1528]

Im doing good 👍​@@aegorbittersteel2154

[@WorldOfWesteros]

We do touch upon how events like the Dance impacted her claim, i am working on a video specially about her and Daemon Blackfyre

[@alfieingrouille1528]

​@@WorldOfWesterosnice

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

@@WorldOfWesteros Amazing

[@madambutterfly1997]

I feel as if Rhaena would be the first Aegon the Unworthy before Aegon the Unworthy. Like him, Rhaena would have a bunch of women at court who would double as her lovers. Queen Rhaena the Shameless Targaryen First of her name Queen of the Andals the Rhoynar in the First Men.

[@J_ads2000]

I mean she was pretty monogamous with her ladies. She usually only had 1 female love interest at a time. Just because she was 💅 🌈 doesn’t mean she was like Aegon the unworthy.

[@madambutterfly1997]

@J_ads2000 nothing particularly considering that incident where her faux husband poisoned like three women. I say faux husband cuz she only married him just to shag his sister.

[@madambutterfly1997]

@J_ads2000 I made the comparison because of how blatantly in your face her promiscuity was. The marriage itself raised eyebrows EVERYWHERE because as far as we know her husband wasn't much to speak of.

[@madambutterfly1997]

@J_ads2000 I made the comparison because of the pattern and behavior not cuz she's a lesbian. Laenor was monogamous as well. Even though he should have done his duty. And saying he's sterile as a justification as to why none of her three sons were biologically his is BS