The Pagan Jesus? - Apollonius of Tyana

In this episode, we explore the fascinating life of Apollonius of Tyana, a Neopythagorean philosopher whose life in many ways mirror that of Jesus.
Support Let's Talk Religion on Patreon: / letstalkreligion
Or through a one-time donation: www.paypal.com/paypalme/letst...
Also check out the Let's Talk Religion Podcast: open.spotify.com/show/0ih4sqt...
Music by Filip Holm
Sources/Suggested Reading:
Dzielska, Maria (1986). "Apollonius of Tyana in Legend and History". L'Erma Di Bretschneider.
Kirk, G.S., J.E. Raven & M. Schofield (1983). "The Presocratic Philosophers". Second Edition. Cambridge University Press.
Huffman, Carl A. (ed.) (2017). "A History of Pythagoreanism". Cambridge University Press.
#Apollonius #jesus #ancient

[@NuncNuncNuncNunc]

Hearing the story of Apollonius of Tyana made me realize that even in the Jesus story there are wandering philosophers. Can you imagine all the other fascinating stories lost to history?

[@jboogie4701]

they have discovered more gospels but the church refuses to make them canon lol. this is why i do my own research of every religion. This channel is truly an important key to bridging the division between us all!

[@thomasabbott9410]

I am a big believer in Jesus. I am a big believer in man. How the two intertwine fascinates me. This story is an example of how the two Souls intertwined and became one. The Holy Ghost grew from commingling of these two entities.

[@healthymealthy775]

Sorry to be negative but this presenter is way out of his realm. This is why I think being over specialized in such a large subject, like Religion, a word that is very misunderstood, is a huge mistake. It just doesn't work.

[@yusufg.1281]

You mean Peripatetics? I don't recall their prominence in the Gospels. The existence of a few philosophers is mentioned in Acts, Epicurean is one that I remember. But they are not part of movement of the Nazarene. They are pagans.

[@yusufg.1281]

Acts 17:18 Also some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers debated with him. Some said, “What does this pretentious babbler want to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign divinities.” (This was because he was telling the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.) There is no presence of Peripatetics in the Bible.

[@fretnesbutke3233]

This ties into an area that fascinates me. Even centuries before Alexander,the Persian Empire connected India to Greece,and I would contend that it was a time of colossal cultural cross-fertilization, contradicting our modern differentiation between western and eastern thought. Pythagoras,often thought of as the father of western music,had some awfully Indian ideas. The Indo-greeks and Greco-bactrians were the later product of this exchange. The sculpture and art of Gandhara, portraying the Buddha in Hellenic style,is a clear, breathtaking example of the collaboration of east and west.

[@martindavis1913]

yep and they did all that travel without internal combustion engines amazing!! Walking ,walking walking.

[@KAOTSOUKI]

@@martindavis1913 who invented ships?

[@fretnesbutke3233]

@@martindavis1913 yeah, I'm sure there was a lot more walking back then,but Persia also had a high-functioning equivalent of their own 'pony express'. That motto of the postal service,"neither rain,nor sleet..etc."is alleged to have originated with the Persians.

[@martindavis1913]

@@KAOTSOUKI Well, i suppose that depends how you define a ship as opposed to a boat, barge,barque, canoe or raft The Egyptians certainly had Papyrus boats as did the Mesopotamians have some sort of reed vessels and coracles of a sort. Not quite sure what the Harrapans had devised early on. If we were to talk of the earliest water transport of any sort then the Australian Aborigines would have to have used something to get from present day Indonesia to Northern Australia estimated to have occur red between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago.

[@KAOTSOUKI]

@@martindavis1913 Well according to Egyptian accounts Hellenic civilisation is at least 1000y older than the Egyptian.

[@TheArkaRoy]

The story is fascinating. As an indian i would suggest you to show so many fascinating stories of Indian sages, philosopers and teachers. The Puranas are full of that. It can add to your indic line-up.

[@Jumpoable]

Same in China. So many Buddhist & Daoist saints/ sages with miraculous births, healed the sick, helped the downtrodden, & ascended to heaven/ achieved immortality or walked away to the North/South/East/West never to be seen again. "Jesus Christ as the only one Son of God" is such a BORING white people concept. LOL.

[@yusufg.1281]

The Naked Sophists aka Gymnosophists are the most famous Indians mentioned in the ancient accounts. Gymn- comes from the Greek word for naked. Think about that next time you hear the word gymnastics and know that the ancient Greeks did not wear clothes when they did it!

[@yusufg.1281]

But good luck getting the people responsible for this to delve deep into the books that are required reading for anyone who wants to educated regarding the matters they present. They don't even do that. I doubt they want to read the Puranas.

[@yusufg.1281]

There is fascinating information about the ancient Indians regarding their philosophers and sages, religion and history, in al-Biruni, who learned Sanskrit. Shahrastani too.

[@yusufg.1281]

Al-Biruni frequently quotes from a lost work by one "Pantangali" in his work on India. He notes that the Vedas were originally only recited, in poetical metres, and recently (for him) they were first written! That means that the Quran was written before the sacred texts of India!

[@kuroazrem5376]

Pythagoreans were so cool. I mean, they were Math-wielding superheroes who healed people, fought demons and vampires, resurrected the death, and see the future. How cool is that!?

[@Nuruddunya]

super epic wholesome chungus

[@Spectre2434]

Legendary EPIC

[@samuelferrell9257]

The real Heroes of the age

[@Vagabund92]

modern mathematics sucks in comparison....

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@LetsTalkAboutIt24-7]

At the very beginning of this episode, he CLEARLY states that Apollonius and Jesus are NOT the same person. He is outlining the incredible similarities. Great video!

[@EsotericBibleSecrets]

This video is weak. He doesn't even show you the article by Acharya S. Jesus and Paul were both based in part on Apollonius, and Paul refers to the thorn of Satan in his flesh as Jesus Christ. As a composite character, you can make an equally strong argument that Christ was based on Julius Ceasar. He is based on many gods and historic figures. I have studied him for over 20 years and the stuff I have found is the very strongest out there.

[@auggied6760]

You should get an award for your work. It's the most thorough I have seen, and your graphics/photos are wonderful. Very intelligent and informative presentation.

[@EsotericBibleSecrets]

This video is weak. He doesn't even show you the article by Acharya S. Jesus and Paul were both based in part on Apollonius, and Paul refers to the thorn of Satan in his flesh as Jesus Christ. As a composite character, you can make an equally strong argument that Christ was based on Julius Ceasar. He is based on many gods and historic figures. I have studied him for over 20 years and the stuff I have found is the very strongest out there.

[@ReligiosityPlus]

Great channel and beautifully presented! Thank you for being an inspiration!

[@cynergy4]

Fascinating! I'm not religious but am obsessed with the historical aspects of religion and of locations. Great video!

[@Ch0senJuan]

Do you have any favorite finds?

[@yusufg.1281]

The best way to get a lot of likes on KZbin seems to be to say the least controversial thing and commit to religion, but be a fan. Or a hater. Strange world. If you have anything interesting to see, if you disagree with an opinion and prove that it is retarded to ask if Appollonius was the same as Jesus, and point out that a theory has no evidence, nobody seems to care. It seems people don't like the truth.

[@yusufg.1281]

Did you ever consider your obsession with the "historical aspects" of religion was not just an obsession but God's way of letting you know that you should be a believer? It's great to know things but doesn't do much good without a practical application.

[@yusufg.1281]

When I studied the history of religion after many years it occurred to me, several things were obvious. Jesus was definitely a Christian, Christianity was founded by Paul the (false) Apostle.

[@yusufg.1281]

And more importantly the only religion today that believes what was taught by Jesus the Messiah is Islam. Christians worship the man who tells them to worship "Our God" who he clearly wasn't. Islam is the only religion that has been able to preserve the integrity of its Holy Book since it was written down. Christians lack a book that is even written in the language of the Hebrew Messiah, even the Aramaic Gospels are believed to be translations. Though there was a Hebrew Gospel and were Hebrew disciples. It didn't survive.

[@Bangladesh0489]

Fascinating. Thank you so much Philip.

[@ryanhartwell4188]

I recommended this channel and religion for breakfast to a few of my students. You guys put out extremely fascinating videos 👍👍

[@traildoggy]

I wish they could have met over a glass of wine. "You know... Son of God, I work miracles, save their eternal souls, forge a connection between the profane and the Divine, sacrifice myself, that sort of thing..." "Yeah Man, I mean, it's a living..."

[@jonimaar__2023]

God (Allah) does not have a wife rather than having a son ;)

[@jonimaar__2023]

How can God (Allah) to have SON and same time did not have in the first place wife. :)

[@heqaib]

Thanks for expanding our knowledge of this critical period.

[@TheHarvestchef]

This information is so important to the world today in understanding each other, where we have been and where we could potentially go. Thank you and please, keep up the amazing work. It is needed.

[@wordawakeningny]

Another great teaching Brother Holm. Thanks for all your studying and hard work.

[@Fear_ALLAH_and_speak_the_Truth]

The victory of the Muslims was foretold in the Bible! Pagans or disbelievers of Mekkah wanted to uproot Muslim nation from the world. But Muslims won those wars by the grace of ALMIGHTY ALLAH. It was also foretold in Bible (Isaiah 42:01-24) about the victory of the Muslims. At that time, many truthful people of Medinah and other countries accepted Muhammad (ﷺ) as the true prophet by analyzing the (Isaiah 42:6) Bible. Those victories really increase the faith of true Muslims.

[@ragnarosthefirelord8662]

I've heard enough Ehrman lectures to recognize that bait and switch, but still appreciated it! Illustrates a great point about the plurality of stories about special people in antiquity and how much they often overlap. Great video!

[@RammusTheArmordillo]

What bait and switch?

[@ragnarosthefirelord8662]

@@RammusTheArmordillo The lead-in demonstrating parallels between the stories about Jesus and Apollonius. It's phrased to make the listener expect that the subject is the former, not the latter.

[@spaceshipidentified]

Next do Mythra I keep hearing he has attributes the same as Jesus around the same time but I can’t find anything outside of people talking about it.

[@draxthemsklonst]

Both were written by ancient Greeks.

[@communication001]

@@ragnarosthefirelord8662 Ehrman is just an evangelist for gnostic nonsense. this guy is a dude. No evangelism, its openly non christian i guess in that it is for those wanting to join this wonderful era of examining jesus and his time with some kind of principled academic eye.

[@patrickohooliganpl]

Apolonius was a Pythagorean philosopher while Jesus was more Socratean in his philosophy and spirit. Pythagoreans focus on the seeking of a universal theory being able of count and grasp everything, and consequently gaining its universal miraculous applications, while Socrateans focus of the superiority of uncountable values and simple ephemeral social experience over countable goods, avoiding or being skeptical re. any universal doctrine.

[@samuelferrell9257]

Well said

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comment.

[@Flintbox]

Love your videos and working slowly through your back catalogue. Have you examined Simon Magus in any detail? Him and Apollonius have always stuck with me after watching a BBC Horizon show on the "Rivals of Jesus" many years ago. Magus was particularly interesting, as paraphrased from the show, the Gospel writers went out of their way to do a hit piece on him as he was viewed as a serious rival. Would love for you to do an examination on him like this video

[@porkadillo9752]

Simon Magus strikes me as somebody who, if he actually existed and wasn't a literary creation to contrast with Paul, got his reputation massively mythologized by later writers. In the NT the guy is an incredibly minor figure who only shows up briefly in the Book of Acts. He's not mentioned anywhere else. It's not until the Church Fathers and later Apocryphal writers that you start to see him gain a bigger reputation, but that contrasts a lot with the image that Acts gives of him. In Acts Simon actually repents upon being bested by Peter and then the story moves on. In context the author of Acts doesn't really present him as anything more than that, much less a heretical mastermind that went on to become a thorn in the side of the church for decades to come. All in all, he strikes me as somebody whose importance got exaggerated by later authors who tried to deface their own opponents by connecting them to someone negative in the NT writings.

[@Mamaosa63]

Thanks for sharing this piece of history. I always had the curiosity to do more research on Apollonius. I appreciate your channel. Very informative.

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comment.

[@yannickschulpen5611]

Thanks for blessing us with your divine stories! Awesome channel, very good vibes. Love!

[@wandering_dervaish]

This guy is truly awesome. His research. Dedication . ❤

[@asmartbajan]

So is this guy: kzbin.infosmAERl96c9E

[@EsotericBibleSecrets]

I'm sorry but he is absolutely nothing compared to me.

[@nothing32222]

Paganism is so much more interesting than Christian fundamentalism from an academic standpoint.

[@canchero724]

This is why Hinduism is interesting. Their pantheon of gods is quite impressive and listening to Indian people talk about their gods and the rituals isn't that far off from what the ancient pagans used to do.

[@onamiilove777]

I disagree....theology is fascinating 🎉

[@colinsutcliffe3246]

Excellent video Filip thank you, looking forward to your take on the fascinating character Melchizedek, soon hopefully 🙏

[@abyssimus]

The teachings in the Apollonian Letters have some rather subtle contrasts with the New Testament, though also between other letters. The letters are soft polytheistic and very pro-state (instead of being a complex monotheism and the source of modern civil disobedience). The letters also state that "women need men" (33. To the Milesians) with nothing to balance it along the lines of "In the same way husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself." The letters also tell mourners to just think about happier memories instead of the sad present, contrasted with the New Testament's assumption of an immanent resurrection.

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comment.

[@abyssimus]

@@barnowl5774 There's over 1000 comments on this video. The only one of yours I'm seeing is the one that says "Please see my comment." If you want me to see it, you're going to have to repeat it as a response to this comment instead of making me do the work of finding a needle in a haystack.

[@Sassieone1]

Very interesting 🧐. I will certainly visit this channel more often !

[@Telzrob]

As I've gotten older and heard more about good 'ol Apollonious of Tyana the more I feel like we're all seriously ruminating over the ancient equivalent of "The Life of Brian". To be clear I don't have any evidence or scholarly writings leading me to this, it's just a gut feeling Maybe that makes it even more appropriate? It certainly makes the hypothesis even amusing (to me at least). Hopefully someone else will find the idea as funny as I do (and feel compelled to watch the film again). ΤΗΙ ΚΑΛΛΙΣΤΗΙ

[@padrianfrazier]

Yeah, that's what it sounds like

[@crystallinecrisis3901]

My old mythology professor in college liked to frequently say “All these cultures were telling stories. And they were all…trading with each other.” As a way to drill it in our heads that the same themes pop up everywhere

[@erdood3235]

I didn't watch life of Brian. Can you explain to me what do u mean by that?

[@Telzrob]

@@erdood3235 Since I'm not sure I could write a better one this is the synopsis from Rotten Tomatoes. "Brian Cohen (Graham Chapman) is an average young Jewish man, but through a series of ridiculous events, he gains a reputation as the Messiah. When he's not dodging his followers or being scolded by his shrill mother (Terry Jones), the hapless Brian has to contend with the pompous Pontius Pilate (Michael Palin) and acronym-obsessed members of a separatist movement. Rife with Monty Python's signature absurdity, the tale finds Brian's life paralleling Biblical lore, albeit with many more laughs. " It's one of my favorite films. Some interesting trivia. Due to the subject matter the production had its financial backing pulled at the last minute. Terry Gilliam later said it was because they (the financiers) "read the script... finally". George Harrison (of the Beatles) saved the movie by setting up HandMade Films to help fund the production with £3 million. When asked why he did it Harrison said, "He wanted to see the movie". Terry Jones has called it, "The world's most expensive cinema ticket".

[@charlesandrews2360]

@@erdood3235 He's saying that the story of apollonius was a parody of the life of Jesus meant to entertain and poke fun

[@nosleepinheaven]

Pythagoras didn’t just keep to a veggie diet - they used poppy seed mixed with sesame seed to quiet hunger. Meaning they were probably low key doped up with natural opiates. Opium poppy grew naturally in Anatolia and had spread to Greece by that time.

[@judymiller5165]

Excellent content. I've often wondered how many other sages there were during the early development of the Christian religion.

[@kingchakaent]

I really appreciate these videos I study this stuff and I learn something every time

[@thehighpriestess978]

I had a thought. (yes, just the one) From what we have heard, or read, *Holy Men* wandering about preaching, were not uncommon back in the day. That begs the question, why or how, did some become known, or become famous to the point everyone knows his name today, and not others? My mind immediately made a connection to the music world, and not just today, but from the 1700s onward, when there are so many good musicians and composers out in the world, but only a handful are remembered. I have no answers, its just something to ponder.

[@theotormon]

Good question.

[@anonymoose116]

Could you imagine if Mozart fans created a cult and weaponized his music? It'd be preferable to modern Christianity tbh.

[@sasabelle140]

It is very simple, if you want to become famous or enter history with what you are doing in life, you have to be a son or a daughter of aristocrats. All these famous fuckers on youtube, science, sports, media or elsewhere are aristocrats. Egyptian and babylonian bloodlines. Everyone and everything what does not come from them get deleted, dismissed or forgotten very quick. It's all the nobility...

[@babywigeon]

fascinating! it totally makes sense that there were a lot of Jesus-like figures in history and it’s interesting to learn what we know about of one of them

[@saulshine1969]

More Abraham like figures.

[@DJWESG1]

A guy did a study a couple of decades ago and concluded there are potentially 30k Jesus types walking the earth right now.

[@holyromanempire6404]

I wouldn't call them Jesus-like figures, more like Buddha-like figures. The reason they might appear to be Jesus-like figures to many people in the modern world is because of their incomplete understanding of Jesus.

[@Patriarch.Chadimus]

​@@holyromanempire6404Well put, brother

[@riaberisha7003]

Jesus was a realised Yogi sane as Buddha we should say christ like figures because they were christs (anointed or realised persons)

[@rileyspiller]

I wish your video went into more detail about what makes him so uniquely fascinating. The comparisons to Jesus are certainly interesting but except for a few small references to stories and myths there’s no color given to why you find him so fascinating. Only the statement multiple times that he is indeed fascinating. Love your videos always.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

MEN CANNOT BE GOD, GOD DOESN'T CHANGE, BORN,EAT,SLEEP EVEN PAGANS DOESN'T BEALIVE HIM IN THE BEGINNING EVEN JEWS DIDN'T BEALIVE HIM IF HE'S GOD HE WOULD MADE EVRY BODIES BEALIVE HIM IF HE WAS ON EARTH HE WOULD PROTECT CHRISTIANS WHEN HE'S ALIVE FROM BEING KILLED AND IN PRISON ROMAN EMPIRE IN THAT TIME SHOULD BE FALLEN IF HE'S, SYRIA, JÉRUSALEM, LOBNAN PLACES WHERE HE VISIT NOW MORE JEWS AND MUSLIMS THEN CHRISTIANS IN THOSE PLACES. CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@barnowl5774]

Please read my comment.

[@anopinion9830]

The one source we have of Appoloniis we have, was written in the 3rd century and commissioned by an empress who wanted to dedicate a temple to him, since she was a follower of him, yet he had lived generations prior. Interesting, very much so.

[@callido592]

I've recently read Sulpicius Severus' "Life of Saint Martin", written during Saint Martins life time in the 4th century AD. In his work all kinds of miracles are ascribed to Saint Martin, including resurrecting people. I found the work fascinating and i was wondering if you could do a video on the historical Saint Martin, since its his veneration day soon (November 11th).

[@vivagoa2469]

Sir .you are giving wrong information.

[@vivagoa2469]

Can I talk on a separate talk.

[@vivagoa2469]

Which comparison.

[@vivagoa2469]

Are you sure on your research. Thousands are working on this. Are you getting money from some cults against Christianity.

[@scottlypuff]

oooh this would be neat!!!+1 request for this request

[@neptunejoo]

Love the intro 💖

[@lulumoon6942]

Delicate subject respectfully presented, instant subscribe! 👍❤️

[@kirstencorby8465]

Great story. I've always been curious about Apollonius. I had no idea writings of his are said to have survived. I'll have to look into these books. TFS.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@zaidwasilbyjus4819]

@@mohammadfatimazahra3006 ??

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comment.

[@BasileosHerodou]

​@@mohammadfatimazahra3006he married a nine year old

[@asabattista]

I’m curious if you have read the book “ on the Historicity of Jesus” by Richard Carrier? If so would you possibly do an episode commenting upon it?

[@sohailaslamstl]

Thank you for making a very focused effort on splitting hairs between a rather very complicated and a very controversial account of history. Even after watching your episode, I still continue to be fascinated with the history accounts of that time period. You have a great gift of research and presentation and I thank the Lord for your talant and the gift he has given you.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@christophercousins184]

I haven't thought about Apollonius for forty years... Thank you for the video.

[@barnowl5774]

Please read my comment.

[@christophercousins184]

@@barnowl5774 I'm sorry, what comment?

[@barnowl5774]

@@christophercousins184 I can't find it either. There were soo many comments and replies! This is what I wrote - " The Master Jesus ... is known for two great sacrifices, that in which He handed over His body for the use of the Christ and for the great renunciation of the fourth initiation. As Appolonius of Tyana, He took the fifth initiation and became a Master of Wisdom." Source - 'Initiation, Human and Solar', pages 56-7 by Alice Bailey, the amanuensis for the Ascended Spiritual Master, Djwhal Khul, aka. 'the Tibetan.' Alice Bailey also wrote. 'From Bethlehem To Calvary' - The Initiations of Jesus. There are over twenty books written by her and DK. which are published by Lucis Publishing Company and Lucis Press Ltd.

[@christophercousins184]

@@barnowl5774 Thank you.

[@dannyhussain5489]

Just want to say you deserve far more subscribers, much love, Danny

[@ElTioCaiman]

Those travels to India in that time sounds fascinating. Can you please make a video about the connection Europe-India?

[@verylostdoommarauder]

I'm not sure if Monty Python was aware of other Messiah claims floating around at the time of Jesus or not, but either way it makes Life of Brian funnier.

[@ekamsat429]

This lecture could lead to a discussion of Thomas McEvilley’s magisterial work, 'The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies.' "This revolutionary study by the renowned classical philologist reveals the interplay of Greek and Indian thought at the roots of Western culture." This 700+ pages' scholarly tome is among the first to present detailed empirical evidence which "demonstrates that Eastern and Western civilizations have not always had separate, autonomous metaphysical schemes, but have mutually influenced each other over a long period of time. Examining ancient trade routes, imperialist movements, and migration currents, he shows how some of today’s key philosophical ideas circulated freely in the triangle between Greece, India, and Persia, leading to an intense metaphysical interchange between Greek and Indian cultures."

[@louhortonsculpture]

That’s a lot I didn’t know about Pythagoras!! Awesome, thanks!

[@unklemunky8992]

Hi Filip - have you read High Magic/ Le Rituel et Dogme de la Haute Magie by Eliphas Levi (Alphonse Louis Constant 1885)? In it he reports on a magical ritual in which he (allegedly) invokes the spirit of Apollonius. The book had great influence on the burgeoning magical revivalists of the late 19th/early 20th C through people like the members of the Golden Dawn & Aleister Crowley. If reading the English version I’d recommend the more modern Greer/Mikituk translation over the contemporary Mathers one. It’s heady stuff & a real glimpse into historical origins of some modern syncretic religious movements.

[@euggiemonad2523]

Eliphas Levi was a notorious charlatan who may have been influential, but he was no scholar. Like Immanuel Velikovsky, he had no fundamental understanding of what he was talking about. His invoking Apollonius in a ritual is an interesting tidbit, but that's about it.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Haven't read it, no!

[@mahipalcharan6690]

@@LetsTalkReligion Western world Chronology kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHScinmAf9Koaq8 👈👈👈 Adam,Abrahm, Floods, Persian Astronomical Epoch, Mithrism 👈👈🤔

[@mahipalcharan6690]

@@LetsTalkReligion Was jesus born in 600 BCE??kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIGze4dvhZynkLM 👈👈

[@mahipalcharan6690]

@@LetsTalkReligion Westren & Eastren Chronology Documentrykzbin.info/www/bejne/mWKypJqvec9koZo 👈

[@marvelloustraveller3559]

Whether appollonius's travel to india were true or not, but we must agree on the fact that ancient india was pretty much famous for its wisdom and knowledge. Even the darius the great, Persian emperor said to have studied under brahmins. Whether the buddhist missionaries( who were mostly brahmins) Or greek interactions with indians was responsible for this nobody knows .

[@DJWESG1]

Ancient Greeks were well established in Afghanistan, so its correct to assume they were all over the place.

[@barnowl5774]

The Christ (not Jesus) is the same great Identity which those of different ideologies recognise under different names, suck as Krishna of Hinduism and the Bodhisattva or Lord Maitreya of Buddhism. Please see my other comment.

[@Rayzblaze2001]

Dennis William Hauck writes about him in his book - The emerald tablet’s alchemy for personal transformation. Saying he found the tablets under a statue of hermes trigmegistis in tyanna, which alexander the great stashed there 300 years prior

[@romo9122]

Fascinating as always. Greetings from the Netherlands.

[@romo9122]

@Kaunis Kaukomieli didnt know that! Thnx 4 the tip

[@brandonrossjr]

I'd like for him and Skalligrim to have a conversation because their voices are similar

[@LiteralmenteUmaMulher]

lol now that you mentioned it I agree

[@Rydonittelo]

I love all your work and I know you cover all faiths and aspects of religion but I do especially enjoy the Jesus stuff. More please ✝️🤗

[@Rydonittelo]

@Sweet T Mean E The all grey rabbit harassed, sheep destroyer thus Harry dancer is a cause of cancer 22.5 if you look for 7 find never + quantum loop gravity, crop rotation in 17th century rural England was hampered by 00213 He is an egg. No. egg. egg........ eggs? You cant wash you hut with a shovel, soth say the rules of Bhathos 00op0042 Come here little chicken child he sayth.. Buck buck bucka!

[@ilari90]

God is Being Being God Bah - Bal -God - Gee BG Bee Gees Staying Alive

[@LisaAnn777]

@Sweet T Mean E what does any of that even mean?

[@LisaAnn777]

I find the life of Jesus fascinating too, though I'm an atheist. But either way he obviously has been very influential on society.

[@LisaAnn777]

@Sweet T Mean E I'm confused, so is "G" God or something and he's coming to help us understand? Understand what? And what calculation?

[@bluestarinn]

Love your passion, as well as your content!

[@lfgeezy5914]

much love from australia phillip jazak Allaah khair

[@rkmh9342]

Thank you for the illuminating discussion! I am reminded of growing up with many friends from Hindu traditions telling me that Jesus of Nazareth traveled to India during the "missing years" and learned from the Brahmin how to do miracles. I am curious whether Apollonius's trip to India was not only to mimic Pythagoras but also to parallel some of the missing years' stories of Jesus. Much love! The Christian claim of Jesus' celibacy is likely rooted in anti-semitism since Jewish mysticism is very sexual. I mean, King David in his song grieving the death of his friend claims that Jonathan's love was better than any woman's. You have to project a lot of your own dogma to reinterpret that in a non-sexual manner. Not a Pythagorean but the fine structure constant 1/137 is pretty close to a basic principle of emanation. It is the ratio of ratios between all the other cosmological and physical constants. And what is really neat, all the other constants need some scale of measurement [like m/s, etc] but the fine structure constant is just a number. If it was any other number, we would not be having this conversation!

[@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134]

David and Jonathan were married. I wondered the same thing about Jesus in India.

[@rkmh9342]

@@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134 It is curious that all the miracles attributed to Jesus had specific precedents in Indian lore. And not just the miracles per se but the methods. Like using spit to make healing mud. The coincidences are striking, to say the least.

[@Brianrock72]

Yea dude, you just watched PBS Spacetime's video about 1/137. Lets not bring that nugget of knowledge up like you just had it in your pocket.

[@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134]

@@rkmh9342 Purportedly Jesus used cannabis oil to treat epilepsy in a priestly tradition. I know that some Hindus drink bhang but did they also use it for healing?

[@rkmh9342]

@@Brianrock72 Can you share the link? I learned about 137 from Dr. Cory Mulvihill during a grad seminar in 2011 or so.

[@wargriffin5]

We have stories of Pythagorean mystics healing people, but were there ever Stoic healers like this?

[@neilcastro836]

Excellent video, the main point of the video was at the very end 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 great work, it's true from where most likely Christianity got its ideas from since 1st century Judea was heavily influenced by Helenistic Greco Roman beliefs.

[@elsoil3387]

Both points you make are not entirely correct. At the end of the video he basically says that Apollonius was a pagan response to Christianity, and at the start of the video he says that the writings about him didn't appear until the 3rd century. So, this was a copy of Christianity, not the other way around. The second point you make about Christianity being influenced by Hellenestic Greco Roman beliefs is not true because the Trinity, the main theological concept of Christianity, was formulated as a sincere attempt to understand the nature of God based on how he appears in the Old Testament (sometimes as a spirit, sometimes as a man, sometimes transcendent), Jesus' own claims and older prophecies concerning his coming (such as Isaiah 53) - nothing to do with the Greeks or Romans. The Greek term "Logos" (In the beginning was the Logos...) was used as a way for the Greeks and otehrs to understand the cosmic mystery of Jesus...

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

@@elsoil3387 CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@mohammedhusain7641]

We thank you too, for the enlightenment of our static knowledge of that period.

[@bengiyardimli1925]

I wonder how solid the historical Jesus argument can hold, had people been so nit-picky as they are when viewing other questionably ‘real’ historical figures such as this. Just because of some bread crumbs of evidence, suddenly all possibility of Jesus being a legend seems to be thrown out the window yet when other characters are involved the slightest doubt must cause us to take everything with a ‘grain of salt’.

[@martindavis1913]

Filip, perhaps you could do something to contrast Greek/Indian religious ideas with Meso America or Australian Aborigines both of whom had NO influence from Greece or India.

[@penelopehill9710]

So insightful!

[@duantorruellas716]

Never disappoints 👍👍

[@martinchivers7341]

So, the best proof for a historical Jesus is that similar characters existed at the time. Pure physics!

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

MEN CANNOT BE GOD, GOD DOESN'T CHANGE, BORN,EAT,SLEEP EVEN PAGANS DOESN'T BEALIVE HIM IN THE BEGINNING EVEN JEWS DIDN'T BEALIVE HIM IF HE'S GOD HE WOULD MADE EVRY BODIES BEALIVE HIM IF HE WAS ON EARTH HE WOULD PROTECT CHRISTIANS WHEN HE'S ALIVE FROM BEING KILLED AND IN PRISON ROMAN EMPIRE IN THAT TIME SHOULD BE FALLEN IF HE'S, SYRIA, JÉRUSALEM, LOBNAN PLACES WHERE HE VISIT NOW MORE JEWS AND MUSLIMS THEN CHRISTIANS IN THOSE PLACES. CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@stinkymccheese8010]

Too bad nobody has invented Pebody’s Wayback Machine.

[@vanguard9067]

Professor Peabody and his pet boy Sherman

[@Sara-lm8zv]

He sounds like someone I would love to meet. I agree with his many of his ideas and beliefs.

[@policious]

I don’t know if others are experiencing the same but I find your audio to be a bit too low! Great content as always ✌🏼

[@frostyfrances4700]

I use an ancient chromebook for many reasons, primarily security and privacy. It won't take a lot of volume adjuster apps but it does work well with Volume Master. You might want to check that one out, since if something plays well with cranky chromebooks, it'll probably work well with other machines.

[@CrankyHermit]

Pagan Jesus? Wasn't the story of Jesus itself a symbolic retelling of many older pagan legends of the various god-men? Don't we know of at least fifteen previous solar deities, from different ancient cultures, whose stories bore striking similarities to those of both Jesus and Apollonius?

[@obsidianstang6296]

This is interesting. Can you give some examples?

[@CrankyHermit]

@@obsidianstang6296 Here are a few: Amen-Ra, or Horus, in Egypt, Mithra and Zoroaster in Persia, and Thammuz in Syria. In Greece there were Dionysus, Adonis, Perseus and Attis (Phrygia). Rome had Quirinus and a few others, Scandinavia produced the Norse god Odin, and the Japanese islands had their Beddru. There were also Krishna in India and Indra in Tibet, and of course Gautama Buddha himself. All these and several more share amazingly similar details in their birth circumstances, their life practice, teachings and Messianic purpose, and in their death, resurrection and ascension. It's one very old astrological story, personified and adapted through the ages and retold around the world. This is even confirmed, in writing, by the scholars who first collected, edited and compiled the canonical Biblical texts in the fourth century.

[@brisadelcastillo2840]

@@CrankyHermit You can see the crucifixion scene memorialized by God in His creation. He inscribed the scene into the DNA of one of His creations. Search these words, "The Crucifix Fish - What the Crucifix Fish Reveals". Go there and see the evidence.

[@MrC-55]

Yes. Early Jesus had a wand. The entire Gospels narrative structure is astrology.

[@barnowl5774]

@@CrankyHermit In the Ageless Wisdom Teachings and Theosophy, those spiritually-orientated people who achieve a high degree of enlightened consciousness, and thus achieve a certain degree of spiritual initiation, become Ascended Spiritual Masters .The Christ (not Jesus - see my other comment) was the first and fastest of humanity on Earth to do so. Christ is the same great Identity as Krishna of Hinduism and the Bodhisattva or Lord Maitreya of Buddhism. The Buddha is another story ...

[@rolandfrancis7066]

By 250 AD the Gospels as we know them were already written and more or less widespread among Christians in the Roman Empire. It would have been easy to Philostrates ( A Sophist was basically a decadent Philosopher who manipulated his rhetoric in order to lure his audience ) to have access to these documents and write about Apollonius while liberally "borrowing" from the Gospels to turn his Appolonius into a Pagan version of Jesus .

[@JonathanMartin884]

Accounts of Jesus' life also included many tropes and myths. Even some of Jesus' sayings are tropes and can be found in the writings of Jesus ben Sirach, from 200 BCE. So, please don't make it out to be like scholarship supports the idea that Jesus was a real figure and the rest of these characters didn't actually exist. You are doing sophistry yourself if that is your point.

[@davidderidder2667]

@@JonathanMartin884 and Roland, how could we get or find a truly scientifically honest and as objective as possible review of the truth about Jesus and his message? If humanity has been conned, it is best to bring things out in the open. How do we go about this? And perhaps we have not been conned. Let me know your views.

[@rolandfrancis7066]

@@JonathanMartin884" IF" but I am not 🚫 and you missed my point.

[@JonathanMartin884]

@@rolandfrancis7066 So your point was not to make it seem as though Apollonius was _only_ borrowing from the gospel to simply create a pagan version of Jesus? You acknowledge that many of the tropes used for Jesus were not unique to him, right? Then why did you only mention the gospels when speaking of the borrowing?

[@ladydustin7811]

The writings of Jesus Ben sirach are simply in the Bible. As a Jew, Jesus would have known them.

[@salmanzafar86]

Great work you have great knowledge!!!!!

[@forsakenshadow1409]

Thank you for this information it's very enjoyable.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@berkleystreetcapital3588]

Can you also talk about the 1 st till 7 th century of people who are said to be Godly and ‘did not die but will come back’ like mahdi like jesus like sabatay zvi like horasani etc. this whole people going to heaven etc.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

MEN CANNOT BE GOD, GOD DOESN'T CHANGE, BORN,EAT,SLEEP EVEN PAGANS DOESN'T BEALIVE HIM IN THE BEGINNING EVEN JEWS DIDN'T BEALIVE HIM IF HE'S GOD HE WOULD MADE EVRY BODIES BEALIVE HIM IF HE WAS ON EARTH HE WOULD PROTECT CHRISTIANS WHEN HE'S ALIVE FROM BEING KILLED AND IN PRISON ROMAN EMPIRE IN THAT TIME SHOULD BE FALLEN IF HE'S, SYRIA, JÉRUSALEM, LOBNAN PLACES WHERE HE VISIT NOW MORE JEWS AND MUSLIMS THEN CHRISTIANS IN THOSE PLACES. CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

THE GUIDANCE DIRECTLY FROM ALLAH THIS IS THE MAHDI THE WAITED AND THE WANTED ONE IN THE BEGINNING LIKE EVERY PROPHET BY GABRIEL REVALATION AND ANGLES THEN IN SOME POINT IT'S DIRECTLY FROM GOD HIMSELF. 8 TIMES DIRECTLY FROM THE CREATOR THE MASTER OF THE DAY OF JUDGMENT BUT THEY SAY WE DON'T MAKE NO DESTINATION BETWEEN ALL HE'S MESSENGER THEY PROMISED THAT WE'RE ALL HUMANS WE'RE ALL PROPHETS NOT GODS THERE'S JUST ONE AND ONLY CREATOR OF EVERYTHING EVERYTHING MEANS EVERYTHING IN EXISTTANCE PEOPLE'S DIFFRENTS COLORS MANNER OF THINKING ESPECIALLY THE MANNER OF THINKING (KNOWLEDGE) WE DO NO DISTANTION BETWEEN ONE MESSENGER OR THE OTHER IN GOD EYES ARE ALL THE SAME IT'S DIFFRENT CIRCUMSTANCES BUT THEY ALL DELVIRED A MSGS FROM GOD.

[@hizbee5524]

And it's October so can we expect more of Spooky season? Mysteries like Book of "Shams al ma'araf" and the book written by Devil himself in a one night. And other mysterious stories in religion. We'd appreciate if you do more videos about Spooky season.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@buddhazorba878]

Athenian author Flavius Philostratus wrote a book Life of Apollonius of Tyana( Cappadoccia, Greece) -this book contains the India episode.

[@kenide55]

@PraveenMohan Check this out! Very interesting connection! Any idea what Apollonius is holding in that drawing? The orb?

[@erkkihyvarinen8989]

Very interesting, again!!!

[@wormius7350]

The audiobook of the Life of Apollonius of Tyana is 10 hours long, it’s pretty dense. But the parallels to are weak at best. When he “casts out a demon,” the demon possessed a small boy and threatened his mother with killing or harming the boy. Does Apollonius cast out the demon? No, he hands the demon-possessed boy a note with threats of what he will do to the demon if the boy is harmed. Then Apollonius leaves, never actually casting out the demon. In his “healing miracles,” he never uses divine power to actually heal someone, he just knows the solution to the problem, gives it to whoever needs it, and moves on. There aren’t any parallels which aren’t general and vague between Jesus and Apollonius. Mike Winger has a great video where he reads from the book directly and it shows there are little connections.

[@medeskurdishempire825]

the enemy needs anything to deceive the world right now, his time is running short.

[@samwill7259]

If I was a younger man I'd say "Pagan jesus" is a contradiction in terms. But this channel has taught me things are nowhere near that simple.

[@africanhistory]

Yeah I read it in Bart's book also. And I was saying but I heard this exact thing before.

[@hombrepobre9646]

i will download this video i will use it as an example later when i deliver a lecture,

[@goblinsdammit]

Timely! I just started reading Bart Ehrman's how Jesus became God book :)

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

@@alem8100 MEN CANNOT BE GOD, GOD DOESN'T CHANGE, BORN,EAT,SLEEP EVEN PAGANS DOESN'T BEALIVE HIM IN THE BEGINNING EVEN JEWS DIDN'T BEALIVE HIM IF HE'S GOD HE WOULD MADE EVRY BODIES BEALIVE HIM IF HE WAS ON EARTH HE WOULD PROTECT CHRISTIANS WHEN HE'S ALIVE FROM BEING KILLED AND IN PRISON ROMAN EMPIRE IN THAT TIME SHOULD BE FALLEN IF HE'S, SYRIA, JÉRUSALEM, LOBNAN PLACES WHERE HE VISIT NOW MORE JEWS AND MUSLIMS THEN CHRISTIANS IN THOSE PLACES. CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@barnowl5774]

@@alem8100 That statement is incorrect.

[@buddhazorba878]

Athenian author Flavius Philostratus wrote a book Life of Apollonius of Tyana( Cappadoccia, Greece) -this book contains the India episode.

[@onamiilove777]

Bart is agnostic.....read it with a grain of salt.😅

[@joanlynch5271]

Maybe Jesus is an amalgamation of different parts. Who really knows? Does that mean that all religion is a lie? No, because spiritual belief is a big part of many people 's lives. I don't think that you should take that away from people.

[@smilealways4978]

Completely agree

[@wind5221]

Very profound and amazing video. Thanks.

[@Zictomorph]

Which Ehrman book was that intro from? I read 4 of his books really fast and they blended together in my brain.

[@thejarjarexp2147]

How Jesus Became God

[@Justificus]

From Jesus to Merlin, there has to be something behind the myth - we can't assume that humanity was any less skeptical than we are now. If so many people in the era these wonder workers first became known, accepted the authenticity of the miracles and teachings, it must have been above and beyond the normal and plentiful neighborhood soothsayers or fakirs. Oddly, it doesn't seem they promoted themselves, but quite the reverse. The common thread is that however they accomplished the phenomenal - it (how) remained a guarded secret and was a knowledge gained by an initiatory school or institution. Like Jesus, Apollonius ( both, in several different traditions) was widely traveled and exposed to a wisdom education that was spread across continents, and at the surface seems disparate, but follows an underground stream of knowledge that was shared among the initiates. Further, these remarkable characters in the various narratives are readily accepted into various and highly exclusive religious institutions (like the Brahmins) as if they possessed a passport that opened all sacred doors to them. This is one more indication that a network "mystery school" was far more extensive than history reports.

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comment

[@barnowl5774]

@Kaunis Kaukomieli Please see my comment.

[@arspsychologia4401]

In short, and getting out in front of it: there are some occasional vague parallels, but nothing that could suggest plagiarism or connection. Using a giant book with tons of various miracle claims (none of which line up particularly well; generally Apollonius' miracles were seen to be achieved through cunning rather than holy power), written more than 100 years after Apollonius died and written in Greece about things happening in India and other faraway places, as a parallel to a number of books that were written within a few decades of Christ's death, and written in Jerusalem about miracles happening in Jerusalem, would be a foolish comparison if there is an attempt to claim a connection between these two people/written works.

[@michaelrenper796]

Perhaps your concept of "connection" is a bit too narrow. As you imply and historians agree that most the New Testament is myth and cultural projection, it is only natural to assume that the Jesus myth and the Apollonius myth fed from the same cultural repertoire. That's enough of a connection to me. A fairly solid one indeed.

[@arspsychologia4401]

​@@michaelrenper796 I do not imply that most of the New Testament is myth. The cultural mindset at the time, as outlined in the Talmud (a collection of writings by the Pharisees and other various leaders of what became Rabbinic Judaism, AKA ancient anti-Christian writings) was that Christ performed miracles through demonic activity; Christianity was extremely counter-cultural. These writings also confirm basic things about the Resurrection, including the death of Christ (Romans are generally good at knowing when someone's dead) and the missing body because they say the Disciples stole it. The fact that many people, including some of Jesus' family members, say that they saw Him alive after death and were willing to die for those beliefs, not to mention the conversion of some persecutors of the early Christians due to these appearances, seems to throw a wrench in the conspiracy theory idea because lying would only make sense if they had something to gain for it.

[@michaelrenper796]

@@arspsychologia4401 OMG, what gibberish. Please stay away from this discussion.

[@arspsychologia4401]

@@michaelrenper796 What part do you not understand?

[@danielpaulson8838]

They're built on the same template. Joseph Campbell saw it as, "The Hero's Journey." They are more similar than many people realize. In fact I find this to be true, people who staunchly claim their religion is right above all others, understand the and see the least. The more material from antiquity one is familiar and comfortable with, the easier it is to see. However, one must pull any emotional commitment of supernatural out of the process. That prevents people from being open minded enough to see reality.

[@tomgeorgearts]

So Appolonius AND Pythagoras were both said to have visited India? Whether or not they did, it sounds like there was potentially much more exchange of spiritual ideas between East and West than we are usually led to believe. It also reminds me of the theory that Jesus was a Buddhist.

[@thomasnorcom8011]

There are 17 MSS of Philostraus' Life of Pollonius the earliest if which is dated around 1000 CE or some 750 years after it is claimed to be written. Philostratus wrote his work at the bequest of Julia Domna, the wife of the emperor whose son was a worshiper of Apollonius. After reading both the Life of Apollonius and the Gospel of Mark in a graduate course I am more impressed with the differences in the lives of Apollonius and Jesus than in their similarites.

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comment.

[@theomnisthour6400]

A new age "prophet" ahead of his time? Connect him to source worship and you have a new Christ Consciousness lollipop to stock your shelves with 🤣

[@cthrugrl]

What on earth does this mean

[@You.are.correct.however]

@@cthrugrl only God knows 😂😂😂 been looking at this for an hour

[@saimbhat6243]

Is this supposed to be an insult or something?

[@theomnisthour6400]

@@saimbhat6243 It's an uncomfortable truth about what the cosmic oneness cult is doing to all traditional religions, dumbing them down to the lowest level of spiritual consciousness, thinking that is the path to peace instead of a path to BORG mind control totalitarianism

[@darthbanana7]

@@cthrugrl bruh i feel bad that i understand

[@imaantagonist6322]

This is all very interesting, but I'm stuck on this "scholarly consensus that Jesus was real." I've never seen or heard of such a thing because there is no proof of a single person with that name matching the description having existed. As far as I know, he's more of a Robin Hood character. maybe made up of multiple people.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

That isn't true at all, while there is substantial debate about the nature of Jesus, there is none serious who denies that he existed, Let's talk religion's video on whether Jesus existed is great, as is the similar video done by Inspiring Philosophy.

[@imaantagonist6322]

@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts 2 things. 1) You can't really say it isn't true as my comment was about how I'm stuck on this because of what I've heard and read. I'm not making a definitive statement about the existence of Jesus, just my thoughts on the comment. 2) I haven't seen the other video that you mention, I'll have to look into it. I'm sure there are many serious people that have come to the conclusion that Jesus most likely didn't exist or at least not in the form as described in the bible.

[@brisadelcastillo2840]

You can see the crucifixion scene memorialized by God in His creation. He inscribed the scene into the DNA of one of His creations. Search these words, "The Crucifix Fish - What the Crucifix Fish Reveals". Go there and see the evidence.

[@hizbee5524]

Great video Filip. Sir do you know anything about Gospel of Barnabas? And if yes then please Do a comprehensive video, it is the one of interesting find in Christian world.

[@mohammadfatimazahra3006]

MEN CANNOT BE GOD, GOD DOESN'T CHANGE, BORN,EAT,SLEEP EVEN PAGANS DOESN'T BEALIVE HIM IN THE BEGINNING EVEN JEWS DIDN'T BEALIVE HIM IF HE'S GOD HE WOULD MADE EVRY BODIES BEALIVE HIM IF HE WAS ON EARTH HE WOULD PROTECT CHRISTIANS WHEN HE'S ALIVE FROM BEING KILLED AND IN PRISON ROMAN EMPIRE IN THAT TIME SHOULD BE FALLEN IF HE'S, SYRIA, JÉRUSALEM, LOBNAN PLACES WHERE HE VISIT NOW MORE JEWS AND MUSLIMS THEN CHRISTIANS IN THOSE PLACES. CHAPTER 2 VERSES 256_259 لَآ إِكْرَاهَ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ ٱلرُّشْدُ مِنَ ٱلْغَىِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِٱلطَّٰغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسْتَمْسَكَ بِٱلْعُرْوَةِ ٱلْوُثْقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. ٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ إِلَى ٱلنُّورِ ۖ وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ ٱلطَّٰغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ ٱلنُّورِ إِلَى ٱلظُّلُمَٰتِ ۗ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ أَصْحَٰبُ ٱلنَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَٰلِدُونَ Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى ٱلَّذِى حَآجَّ إِبْرَٰهِۦمَ فِى رَبِّهِۦٓ أَنْ ءَاتَىٰهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ رَبِّىَ ٱلَّذِى يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا۠ أُحْىِۦ وَأُمِيتُ ۖ قَالَ إِبْرَٰهِۦمُ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْتِى بِٱلشَّمْسِ مِنَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ ٱلْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ ٱلَّذِى كَفَرَ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّٰلِمِينَ Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

[@gonelooney5698]

sounds similar in many ways to the stories of Celtic Druids and herb/healing knowing hermits/sages etc.

[@padraigmcdermott5533]

Theres a common sentiment that Christianity itself was plagiarized. I can see why, but i cant help but wonder if many pagan mythologies were forerunners to Christ . Pagans werent dumb, maybe they just saw it in a different form before the incarnated Jesus, kind of like prophecy.

[@keaco73]

Important takeaway is, people made up lots of stories back then.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Back then...?

[@keaco73]

@@LetsTalkReligion point taken. BUT some people seem to think those times were special depending on their religious views :)

[@vladimirlegrand2917]

Some says Apollonius of Tyana is the same character than Paul the apostle (or that life of the last inspired the first). And we know that "Paul" (in latin) is etymologically of the same root than "A-paollo-nius". Mover over the lives of the two are very similar in the details.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Are Apollonius and Apollos, mentioned in the NT, one and the same person?

[@afd4017]

They obviously based their Christ myth on the life of Appolonious & contextualised Joshua (Jesus) into an Osirian KRST (Christ) superhero to fulfil what many perceive to be prophecies in Isaiah. Apollonious & Paul have similar stories & origins both have friends called Damis the name ‘Paulos’ origins in tyana & travels in Galilee & Tarsus. Apollo was the sun of Zeus so Apollonius may have just been a later title applied & his travels to india etc.. ties in to the myths surrounding Jesus traveling to india etc…

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comments.

[@LevaISanningen]

What is the pagan saviour? Is it a pig 🐷?

[@chendaforest]

we need a Swedish saviour

[@dogukan7406]

Hey a very interesting video again! Can you make a video about Sunni-Alevi division in Turkey someday? I really would like to learn more about this issue. 👍

[@plasticspoonrc]

"How is it," asks Justin Martyr, in evident dismay, "how is it that the talismans of Apollonius (the telesmata ) have power in certain members of creation, for they prevent, as we see, the fury of the waves, and the violence of the winds, and the attacks of wild beasts; and whilst our Lord's miracles are preserved by tradition alone, those of Apollonius are most numerous, and actually manifested in present facts, so as to lead astray all beholders?"

[@barnowl5774]

Please see my comment.

[@uflux]

Not sure why he is being compared to Jesus. It seems that they are polar opposites. Apollonius believed reason could be used to achieved unity with God (spoiler alert …it can’t) and had a very Polytheistic view of sin as determining how you are reborn. Jesus taught that the only way to God was through belief in him as as God and as the saviour of humankind by accepting his death on the cross as a final and complete sacrifice for our sin. The difference couldn’t be more stark.

[@r0ky_M]

One isnt saved by the death of Jesus, it is by faith in his resurrection.

[@uflux]

@@r0ky_M sincere apologies death and resurrection

[@jenniferhunter4074]

really? This is another character that wandered around and did miracles. Wasn't the Christian character of Jesus another version of character who wanders around doing miracles. I mean, we even see it now. Think of The Hunger Games and then, the series "Divergent"? They're both teen dramas. They're both dystopian. They're both set in a hypothetical future. There are some broad strokes that make readers classify both series as part of a particular genre. Now are there differences? Of course. The names are different. The setting is slightly different. Different "bad guys" and different "good guys". Or, we can put it into the comic book world. Marvel vs. DC. We have different superheroes and supervillains but it's still comic book superheroes stories. The problem with Christianity is that Christians believe their stories are real rather than make believe.. That's why they don't see similarities between these two characters that outsiders do. For Christians, this is sacred text that they were programmed to believe absent evidence beyond subjective feelings. For outsiders, Christianity is just another abrahamic religion that has had enormous influence (good and bad) that is based off of an unsubstantiated assertion about a magic god and son. The details are slightly different. But the genre is the same. That's what we are seeing. A similarity between this Apollonius character and the Jesus character. I don't want to get into a fight about whether this Christianity is true. I have a standard request. I want proof. So here's the deal. 1. I want a lot of money. If I get a lot of money (I'm talking millions at least) in my bank account before 12/31/2022, I will accept that as evidence that your god exists. (just pray it up. If the christian's story is true, their god created the entire universe. A few million shouldn't be a problem. Just make it happen.) 2. I've always liked the wedding at Cana miracle. It would make my holiday parties (november/december) far cheaper if I didn't have to buy liquor. So... pray me up a miracle. This is something that this Jesus character has done before. Make it happen. 3. Bring back a dead person. I'm going with Tesla this time. I just feel like it. Your Jesus stories claim he can bring back the dead. Make it happen. If he really did it once, he can do it again. All I need is one of these to occur. I'll believe that this Christian god exists. I would greatly appreciate if it were option 1. The 3rd one is my least favorite. Doubting Thomas could demand proof to Jesus' face. Now.. if no evidence occurs I have one or two or three options. 1. your god doesn't exist 2. your god isn't interested in "saving me" so it doesn't want to do any miracles. 3. you're going to hell because your god only listens to true believers and you are not a true believer. *worship is another thing. I would have to judge if this being were worthy of my admiration. I mean... think about it. Genghis Khan ruled and was enormously powerful. He wasn't worthy of admiration. if this god is worthy of worship, I will worship and all that jazz Don't bother with our subjective experience or get angry. You would be as demanding if I stated that the Hindu religion were true and it was Shiva or Brahmin or whatever that was the real deal. You would demand proof before believing that story. Respect me enough to apply the same standard. I think I'm pretty fair. I'd ask proof from a Hindu believer too. Only a liar would get angry with my simple request. At that point, it's a you problem. not a me problem.

[@barnowl5774]

Please read my comment.

[@danielpaulson8838]

These two and very many more all are stories built on the template of The Hero's Journey. They're all made up starting with Gilgamesh and in really good shape in the Babylonian creation story, The Enuma Elish. Jesus is also Buddha. Buddha was born Siddhartha and became The Buddha. (Enlightened one) We all have a Buddha nature to seek Nirvana. Jesus was Jesus and became the Christ. We all have a Christ nature and seek it to find the Kingdom of Heaven within. Greek Myth, Argonautica? Jason is saved as an infant so he can one day reclaim his fathers kingdom. Struggles to leave an island to start. (leaving ones past behind) but finally does so and sails through the clashing rocks with help from a God and the adventure begins Genesis, Moses is saved as an infant so one day he can reclaim the rightful place of the Jews. Struggled to leave Pharaoh who said go, then changed his mind. Gets Gods help to part the Dead Sea and the adventure begins. Same nested template in two different genres of story. Myth or religion. They are cases, (Arks) with different flavor candy shells. The sweetest is eaten the most. You read enough of these with an open mind to something being on a template, you find it. not many look that far. I can nullify them all as historical and can explain how they were made. But fantasy keeps humans happy.

[@speedwagon1824]

Those are all very different stories

[@danielpaulson8838]

@@speedwagon1824 They are different Arks. Like Fables. They use word shifting and these play out in the psyche. Looking at them from the outside is what keeps them obscured. I have video's up comparing them and showing how to play them out in the mind, then the differences go away.

[@victoriag9648]

It's hurtful to know that I spent more than 40 years believing and making important decisions in my life,based in a millennial 🤥🤡🤥 I feel so stupid since 2020 when I started studying the bible and its journey. My greatest disappointment is with the justice ⚖️ how they allow it to be spread as TRUTH, not to mention that, the justice gives the religious institutions and its leaders, rights and privileges to SCAM inocente people.

[@barnowl5774]

You have some incorrect information here.

[@danielpaulson8838]

@@barnowl5774 Are you going to enlighten us with a minimum of just one of the many thousands of various opinions?

[@communication001]

Hey dude see what i wrote under ragnaros's comment. thank you for all your work. i also like james tabor and deplore the whole 'gnosticism is the real and oppressed christianity' nonsense from ehrman etc. worth exploring that pagel woman on the gospel of thomas though. despite it being similarly high learning like gnosticism its suprisingly convincing and shes so cute.

[@quinnoshaughnessy]

hello. i was just curious about some thing that's some what related to your topics of discussion -- which i really like listening to, by the way. i like listening to stories by lovecraft and other such authors -- there's a couple of youtube channels dedicated to these kinds of stories -- and many of lovecraft's stories, along with the stories of other authors back in the day, involve the mysteries of the east, and in lovecraft's case, a mysterious -- and quite thoroughly fictitious -- fellow who wrote a book called "the necronomicon". now back in those days, every one in the western world seemed fascinated by the idea of ancient eastern religions and superstitions and all that, and i was just wondering how you feel about these stories, being that they revolve around eastern mysticism and the gods and beliefs of those people living in the east. i must point out, that lovecraft and these other authors who followed his example, didn't exactly paint these people in the best light -- but all the same, i was just wondering how you see lovecraft's portrayal of their beliefs and practices.