The Pathetic State of Dragon Ball Super.

[@thecod2345]

The issue I see most of all is they refuse to let Dragonball end. The more powerful Goku becomes, the longer his character and the others around him go on, the more and more concessions have to be made for the story to continue. UI should have been the final end point for super, because now they’re just going in circles trying to justify how they can go even further by contradicting its very premise and one of its strongest selling points.

[@dasaiyantv8483]

Dragon Ball would have been an overall stronger series from a narrative standpoint had it ended where it was meant to end in the Buu Saga. As a whole, DBS has brought down the average quality of Dragon Ball's core narrative.

[@thecod2345]

@@dasaiyantv8483Honestly, if we’re strictly talking quality wise, I think the ideal place to end it would be after Goku beat Frieza except maybe with a short epilogue. But assuming Dbs had to be in the picture, I’d say it should have built up to and ended at ultra instinct because it’s essentially a combination of everything Dragonball has been excluding GT (which really doesn’t matter because they ignored it anyway), which naturally works well as an endpoint.

[@lucascesar029]

Have at look at the Dragon Ball Online game opening cinematic, for me it shows how refreshing DB could look with a new roster of characters

[@dasaiyantv8483]

@@thecod2345 personally I say Cell over Frieza, but to each their own. But yeah, I agree with your overall point

[@dususbakahyahskahwbwm9113]

I respectfully disagree on the first sentence. it's less about letting DB end, (because they kind of did after GT ended for over a decade), it's more-so about the quality of the writing and the lack of organization for the anime, movies, and manga behind the scenes. It's a less of planning out how they are going to take these characters and world-building for the future, and more-so of "ooh lets bring Future Trunks back, ooh lets bring Broly back, ooh let's bring the RR army back, etc. They can tell **so** many more stories of Dragon Ball exploring the universes but they just aren't doing it for reasons I have no clue for.

[@nora-yc6fi]

Everyone makes jokes about db fans not reading tha manga but 'honestly', beginning to think Toriyama hasn't read the DB manga

[@150Hello]

So true, if Toriyama was an anonymous person in these DragonBall comment sections, he'd ironically be asked if he even read the Manga 😅

[@Naruku2121]

I mean he is on record getting Ssj3 and Ssj2 mixed up.

[@aubueruser7228]

Toriyama has some pretty good non-dragon ball works and he doesn’t really work too much on the series anymore. Don’t base his entire workflow off that.

[@hitkid2456]

His forgetfulness has reached a whole new level.

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

I only watch anime

[@freetime2freeminds]

I love toriyama but he's an elderly man now, and he's surrounded by freaking yes men "no one told me there was two Supers in the title! hahaha" :|

[@CAGExplains]

Bro I remember the first time I brought up how dumb the name was and people were telling me "You just don't understand Toriyama's humour!" The cult he has is insane! 😂

[@Godzilla00X]

He doesn't care, he's set for life

[@shaminamina]

@@Godzilla00X bro is married, has a grown ass son, made the one of the most recognizable and profitable pieces of media ever and is rich as fuck. If i was him i wouldnt care about no toei or manga too im already at the top 🤣🤣

[@turbotrup96]

I lost all respect for him. It's one thing to ruin a franchise but then back away from it, and it's another to KEEP. ON. GOING. Fu**er doesn't even need the money, which makes it hilariously worse.

[@neonnemesis3267]

@@CAGExplains Nowadays it's not that bad, I remember way back before Super or even the Battle of Gods movie some guy on the net referred to him as Akira rather than Toriyama and people jumped on him about his lack of respect. Needless to say that trying to criticize him was asking to get insulted and harassed. The cult back then was absolutely insane.

[@KitsuneShapeShifter]

Goku not knowing what meditation is, is like Goku seeing Nimbus and going ''what's that cloud?''

[@yarc9]

goku isn’t that smart he thinks marriage a food

[@maxfieldstanton5411]

Really, it would be Toriyama forgetting what Nimbus is, because he hasn't drawn it in so long.

[@gabeitches87]

​@@yarc9 That was only when he was a kid, and that's not really him "not being smart". Goku was literally raised in the middle of nowhere in the mountains by his adoptive grandpa and still lived there by himself after Grandpa Gohan died. He didn't go to school or anything and of course wasn't taught anything about that stuff from Grandpa Gohan before he died. He barely even knew how to read, write, and do basic math until he trained under Master Roshi. How tf is he supposed to know what marriage was? Lmao

[@yarc9]

@@gabeitches87 superman went to college

[@Dok________]

​@@yarc9what does that have to do with anything???

[@CLARENCEDEVON]

I think Dragonball Fans are lowkey starting to realize how Star Wars fans feel....

[@DragonBallGOAT]

Dragon ball is not in the hands of dsney. Dragon ball is still in safe hands.

[@Alienrun]

@@DragonBallGOAT Essentially this. Star wars fans are more likely jealous of DBZ fans. Like for all the faults Super has...it has its hype moments that people can still get behind. Star Wars doesn't have that...at least not to the degree Super has. Its not just that SW is creatively bankrupt (like Super is...as we all know) but its also really REALLY bad! They f**ked up the most important asset...the mainline films. Disney was too proud to admit they f**ked up so by default most fans are checked out. The only people praising Disney now are creepily obssesed diehard fans who have no standards whatsoever...

[@crestofhonor2349]

Star Wars is in a far worse state than Dragon Ball ever was. GT and Super at their worst is still much better than whatever crap Disney Star Wars has put out like Obiwan, Boba Fett, and the Sequel trilogy. At least I still have fun with Dragon Ball unlike most of disney Star Wars which has it's gems every once in a while

[@doodguytheblank2403]

Honestly feels like the same kind of millennial writing as well. “Here’s the continuation of this old franchise with lots of references but without understanding what made the original good”

[@MrTwille]

Terminator Fans : First time ?

[@PikaPower131313]

What people don't understand is Toriyama's distain for Dragon Ball Z. His passion is not in battle manga, it's in comedy. Everything he has ever written after Dragon Ball Z was in that genre. Now he's back to Dragon Ball with Super because Dragon Ball is stupidly popular but his passion is still gone, and nothing with change that.

[@AlxndrXX]

He should fuckin retire and stop ruining his legacy. Let us have super season 2 like the fans want. Toyataro is fucking rad and I like true ultra instinct.

[@Yukimiyer]

@@AlxndrXXima be so real, if he retires there’s no telling what bullshit their gonna do to the series

[@blizyon30fps86]

@@Yukimiyerhe holds the rights to his own series, if he wants the series to end it ends they cant just force him to keep going on. This is entirely by his choice

[@adoniscreed4031]

Alright so... is anyone holding a gun to his head making him keep the franchise going? Toriyama being involved in this shit legitimises it as canon unlike the live action, unlike GT and unlike any other fan manga... If Toriyama wasnt involved people wouldnt mind that Super is so mid because they wouldn't even consider it canom

[@AlxndrXX]

GT was so much better than super

[@SnipingIsAGoodJobMate]

The manga fell off a cliff when they turned moro from a cool mage into another generic fighter, he had an amazing introduction too.

[@CAGExplains]

Turned into Cell 2.0 💀

[@SnipingIsAGoodJobMate]

@@CAGExplains Quite literally lmao

[@gregm4813]

Wait, hold on? Dragon Ball actually TRIED to do a mage, but didn't go through with it, and STILL did "generic fighter #14511"? Should've figured. Zamasu pulled a freakin' GIYGAS, and yet Dragon Ball somehow manages to drop the ball with that. Like ... how? How do you drop the ball with that? Whelp, guess it's time to classify Dragon Ball with the Sonic and Star Wars franchises: if you want more, find good fan works.

[@megafox3753]

@@gregm4813Sonic’s actually coming back though. It’s crazy how something inspired by Dragon Ball is on the rise while it’s on its downfall

[@gregm4813]

@@megafox3753 True, Sonic's starting to recover a bit at least.

[@freetime2freeminds]

its a breath of fresh air to see someone say this (most youtubers might comment on it or allude to it, but dont want to risk alienating their fanbase) I cant stress how refreshing it was to receive battle of gods back in like 2013. I was hurting for dragon ball content. But it's been consistently lackluster every since then

[@CAGExplains]

Honestly the cracks in Dragon Ball's resurrection began to show in Ressurrection F, I plan to make a video on it sometime.

[@edehyoungthug5887]

@@CAGExplainslet me tell you something about the thing that made me so angry in the granola arc

[@edehyoungthug5887]

@@CAGExplainstrue ui is the dumbest form in dragon ball super

[@edehyoungthug5887]

@@CAGExplainslook out how they nerfed mui in granola arc what the fuck

[@edehyoungthug5887]

@@CAGExplainscompare it to Moro arc I swear mui is stronger than true ui

[@MichaelCravith]

I personally believe they should have just stuck to doing films. Battle of the Gods was actually pretty neat. Casual, and safe, but neat. Resurrection of F was shit, but it could have been improved on. The problem with making this an ongoing series is that it isn't really a sequel, because for whatever reason they're still in the time period between Boo and series end. I'd make a point about the writing, if I thought the average fan actually cared about that. But god I miss the old Goku.

[@Jose-se9pu]

I think the moment Toriyama agrees to continue the story after the end of the manga, is the moment we know they are really desperate.

[@CAGExplains]

A good movie every couple years would satisfy most fans I think. Just gotta make sure the script from Toriyama is solid and the 2D animators are allowed to cook.

[@rifarira9160]

We all miss the old Goku. I hope this half ass tfs goku impersonator will be gone soon.

[@johnnygyro2295]

​@@Jose-se9pu Wasn't that the point of Dragon Ball Online/Xenoverse? Covering the future centuries after most of the main cast died, while also bringing Trunks back for time travel adventures? A series set in that setting could be fun and less restricting.

[@Thunder_Bird0]

A fanfiction story like Dragon Ball Multiverse has a better Goku vs Vegeta fight then the actual canon manga.... That's sad.

[@anabeatrizgoncalvesporto8379]

Nham, this isn't good. Just has good art

[@khamanigeorge7874]

"it's wasn't good.. it's just good" 😭😭

[@xdrastig_4207]

​@@anabeatrizgoncalvesporto8379that's literally 50% of what makes a fight good

[@alphonsejohnson5601]

The ultra Vegito saga by ARJ is better than current dragon ball super.

[@DoctorMario606]

​@@anabeatrizgoncalvesporto837999% of people who say it isn't good have adopted that opinion from other people who have not read it

[@ruser0084]

To be fair,the whole Cell regeneration thing would have been fixed if Toriyama had not made Cell metion the core in the head in which case Cell would have just had an augmented version of Picolo's regeneration which would have been an easy sell.

[@justarandomdude8698]

Toryama later stated that cell lied about it and that every cell of his body can regenerate (which obv is cover up for him forgetting goku blew his brain earlier)

[@dususbakahyahskahwbwm9113]

But then that conflicts with what Piccolo stated after Trunks knocks his statue over in the Buu arc haha

[@whosjoe633]

I see what you did there.

[@weirdface1846]

​​@@justarandomdude8698yup, also in dragon ball z kakarot it is said that cell actually lied about the core's location

[@hitkid2456]

Let's just acknowledge he can probably do that Elder Toguro shit (except he's not actually functionally immortal).

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

I loved how you called Whis out on his BS. Cause how tf are you now gonna say Goku needs to find his own UI, when that was one of the main reasons Vegeta couldn’t access it

[@AbdulAzeez-up4nw]

Yah but calmness is only one part of the equation . Vegeta still cant fight instinctively cause he is a strategic fighter.

[@sidecharacter3193]

Same reason you don’t skip to ssj2 before going ssj Understand and using normal ui would make it easier to modify it to your own version

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

@@sidecharacter3193 But whis said nothing or even hinted towards “finding your own unique version” til they realized they wrote themselves in a corner

[@sidecharacter3193]

@@dominiquerobinson8888 did they ever hint at ssj2. Up until goku woke again nothing hinted at a new form The 3 years of training for the andoirds, nothing. Future gohan, nothing. Would you call every previous transformation they trained for, writing themselves into a corner just because that wasn’t the end goal at the start?

[@sidecharacter3193]

@@dominiquerobinson8888 Why did goku only try to surpass super saiyan after he almost did? Same applies to why whis didn’t tell them their own way. Because it wasn’t thought of at the moment when writing the series

[@smashonlamez]

dbz fans need to hear this (this hurts me too) dbz did not succeed bc of akira toriyama, but despite him. The more you learn about the background of what went on, the more you realize dbz was not his vision. All the stuff i love about it, he originially didnt want. We are seeing it time and time again, his version of dbz-related content is more lighthearted and goofier overall. A lot of credit has to be given to the staff that was working with him at the time, pushing ideas(toriyama himself didnt want). Yes the man is a legend for gifting us this, but the truth is it was lightning in a bottle that he doesn want as much as we the fans do. Its almost bigger than him now. which is sad

[@jesser5138]

Saying that it succeded despite him is crazy, when Toriyama came up with most of the stuff, not to say his editors didnt help, but most of the stuff people say like "oh this character looks dumb!" is because the design wasnt even implemented, only case I accept is them changing the main villians instead of gero and 19

[@dhdurhueur-qe5pn]

This is mental

[@-perfume]

you ars correct my man that is the truth 🙌 💯

[@DADRB0B55]

@jesser5138 If they had a problem with 19 & 20 they must have had a mental breakdown seeing Dyspo, Jiren & Basil the kicker

[@jackgonahieu4999]

Same with Kishimoto for Naruto.

[@DJ792YT]

Gotta say, it hurts to see Dragon Ball in this state. I really thought it would've at least given us something _enjoyable_ with the hype surrounding Black Frieza (Plus I was hyped as hell myself at the time), but it's like Toyotaro is trying to shoot himself in the foot at this point. How this franchise somehow fell in quality from the behemoth it was during Classic Dragon Ball & DBZ to _this_ deserves a documentary of it's own.

[@turbotrup96]

You gotta be actually crazy to still have faith in Super after seeing another recolored transformation.

[@Jose-se9pu]

Dude, the manga ended 28 years ago!

[@blimbaily5133]

Hasn't really fallen still gets sales and alot of people still like it. It wouldn't be a documentary more of a propaganda piece for your own opinions.

[@DJ792YT]

​@@blimbaily5133 To bring up popular opinion and money is a non-argument when _quality_ is the topic of conversation here. The term “documentary” can be used to refer to anything certified in writing, so I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue there.

[@blimbaily5133]

@ogge9304 how compared to dragon ball? I agree that it is trash but I fail to understand by the standards you are applying how the og dragon ball isn't.

[@JammerXtreme]

This is the first time I heard anything negative about beast Gohan, I thought I was going crazy when I thought Beast Gohan was an awful design and everyone else loved it.

[@thiskneegrow]

Maybe people were happy Gohan is strong again but the design isn’t good at all.

[@SplicerYT]

Bra I experienced the same thing but all the way back in 2013 when they first featured SSG because that design is just so plain & simple especially in comparison to SS4. An then SSRose came a long which I thought was even more awful an everyone loved it as well. If you told me that’d they will be a pink SS form stronger than the god form of a SS’s I would of laughed in ya face but here we are...

[@thiskneegrow]

@@SplicerYT They are making content for profit. The creators are conceptually bankrupt. They probably look at all the fan made Dragon Ball stuff and try to avoid it. So the dumbest things are what’s left over. Like red, pink, and blue hair. The characters are bad too. The worst thing is how they made goku actually stupid. He used to be a brilliant martial artist. Now he’s just a dummy that loves to eat and fight.

[@thiskneegrow]

@@CrappedBriefs I thought it was great up till end of cell saga. Not including fillers

[@Ocacadordecasadas]

Beast Gohan is Just ssj2 again,people are Just pissed because It came out of nowhere,in my opnion atleast the design is neat

[@BaconMinion]

Super will forever be a mistake.

[@xgaming2427]

I wouldn't say mistake. A disappointment is more like it.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@xgaming2427 it’s a mistake bro.

[@r.e.z9428]

I miss how bulky everyone was as well. Like those fan videos where Super is redrawn in the same artstyle as Z and it looks so much better.

[@Max25670]

Trunks and Goten were buff as 5 year olds and somehow they became skinny as teens.

[@UNALLOYEDSLOP]

@@Max25670Side note, remember how Gohan says that Saiyans “stay little for a long time then grow up all at once”, even though in OG DB we see Goku grow up, and in Z we see Gohan himself grow up, AND Future Trunks already being a young adult by the age that present Trunks is shortly before Super Hero?

[@gloobark]

super sucks beginning to end. soulless cash grab

[@kepabra3782]

Funnily enough, that was my thought on Z when I finished watching the original series.

[@gloobark]

@@kepabra3782dbz had heart tho. until the buu saga. but at least that saga looks great

[@kepabra3782]

@@gloobark Yeah, but I honestly feel DB had more heart and charm than Z, at first I thought Z was a massive simplification of DB in their plot and characters, being simplified as just battles, forgetting that sense of adventure that the original had (aside from other stuff). But now I've come to appreciate Z a lot more, seeing its virtues and decided to not compare it to the original DB. That's also the case with Super, seeing it as a continuation with good and bad stuff (just like with Z).

[@PARZ90s]

​@kepabra3782 How is Dragon Ball Z simple when its full of character development? The OG Dragon Ball is overrated. Tien beat Kid Goku at the World Tournament, then gets beat by Drum... Who Kid Goku one shots... OG DB is all Goku. No one else. Z actually makes good use of a lot of characters like Piccolo, Future Trunks, Gohan, and Vegeta.

[@jonathanmolina1428]

Making Mai a love interest for trunks is fuckin weird man. Like wtf were they thinking? She’s an old ass adult in a kids body and then they completely change her character. I hate super with a passion

[@agenericguy1014]

The whole Mai thing could've been easily fixed if they just changed the Mai in Super to be OG's Mai child. Like Idk,what if Mai fell in love with a man after the events of the OG DB,then her daughter would venture off with Pilaf to go find the Dragon Balls,just like she did in OG DB. Heck,they might as well add some changes to the design,distinct enough to show us how the Mai in Super isn't the same Mai but rather,her *daughter* It's so braindead easy yet somehow they still screwed up a simple idea like that,it's kinda frustrating y'know? Plus,it would've been a cute and funny story where these 2 old fossils(Bulma and Mai)who were literal rivals,ended up having their children fall in love with each other. It'd also make a great conclusion to both Bulma and Mai's rivalry as they both make amends with each other for their kids. It's literally THAT EASY

[@jonathanmolina1428]

@@agenericguy1014 exactly. Could’ve easily made it make sense lol

[@randomthings1293]

By the events of Super, Future Trunks isn't exactly a boy anymore either...

[@gravethestampede3454]

"Muh ki control" and "muh stamina" are the two storytelling wells Toyotaro can't help but return to whenever he wants to demonstrate whenever he wants to give something Goku and Vegeta to improve on. Redundancy be damned. Credibility of the characters be double damned.

[@taylorsanada3180]

Or you guys hate when reasonable explanations are explained in your pea brains

[@VicMeep]

​@@taylorsanada3180It doesn't exactly feel reasonable when it's repeatedly used when characters are supposed to be much stronger and durable than they were before

[@jpdokkanesestr]

i agree, but what made me bleed through my ass was that "our enemys are calm blah blah" and putting BROLY as an example . . . Bro the whole point of Fusing was cause broly lost control, i cant help but think fusing with Kakarot made him lose some braincells

[@Saxton_Hoovy]

It isn't toyotaro, but it seems more toriyama is doing it.

[@Neuvillete4.6]

Goku : destroy multivers size universe Fights someone incredibly weaker than beerus Doesn't even threating the planet

[@Alex_Dul]

I've always felt like Toyotaro is trapped. Like his own dream is hurting him deeply by so many nonsense restrictions.

[@SuperStationCr1]

Same thoughts here

[@firionkaiser8291]

Idk he was given the freedom to do the story how he wanted. He may feel like he doesn't want to stray too much like he said in an interview but Toriyama told him to go wild. Even now you can still see he does put his heart into most of the panels he draws. Things should pick up after SH is over.

[@noahjones9833]

​@@firionkaiser8291the video claims that he wanted to do a series with trunks as the lead, but toriyama vetoed, I think that'd be an example of toyataro being restricted

[@firionkaiser8291]

@@noahjones9833 Ah yeah, I did forget about that. I feel that also had to do with the whole keeping Goku in the spotlight thing. Would've been crazy if Toriyama would've allowed it had Goten been the main character of the spin off. Makes sense in some ways but man, I would've been happy since Goten has been screwed over as a character for most of the series

[@sun-noir]

Toyoataro has freedom. As long as that freedom involves selling old dbz action figurines with lazy re-paint.

[@TheAndreyCraft]

Mai isn't middle aged. She was adult when Goku was a kid, she is like 60-70 years old

[@PropiaPersona]

Theyre just doing what makes the most money, another version of frieza will sell more than a new villain

[@MissMedeiros]

Exactly. Sell action figures.

[@lowclasswarrior9269]

I can really appreciate how they wrote Freeza to put in the work for it tbh. But yeah to me he should've been killed off for good by Vegeta in ROF.

[@Web720]

The only thing Super did was let me appreciate GT more and actually allowed the series to end in a good note (which is VERY difficult to do).

[@cosmicvoid239]

The main issue in my opinion is they use the same repetitive formula and dumb down characters so they can go through more characters growth so they won't be stagnant but they are doing it awfully considering Goku is not an idiot who doesn't remember stuff he's done on multiple occasions and Vegeta is a goku fan boy while the only real character growth is just getting even stronger

[@jefftakesdscakes30]

Better than copy arc

[@cosmicvoid239]

@@jefftakesdscakes30 they literally just do the same thing over and over how many times have we had a tournament arc lmao how many times has Goku found another god to train him how many times did Gohan become a weakling before getting stronger it's literally the same plot with a fresh coat of paint

[@jefftakesdscakes30]

@@cosmicvoid239 I mean vegeta

[@justsomeguy6336]

Why is stagnant a bad thing? I hate the “all characters need to grow” idea people have.

[@jefftakesdscakes30]

@@justsomeguy6336 so db will end then

[@dansmith1661]

You know which Dragonball character is spiritually in touch and skilled? Tenshinhan; AND HE'S WEAK AF!

[@starbound100]

It's because dragon ball has stopped to be about martial arts a long time ago. DB Is about aliens and their technicolor variants shooting magic beams.

[@zukaanddaze3874]

​@@starbound100it was never about martial arts from the get go

[@dansmith1661]

The fans do want nothing but martial arts. It's why Buu saga quickly went from Borhan to Buu 1-5.@@zukaanddaze3874

[@lowclasswarrior9269]

it was BADASS AF when he owned TF outta yamcha in og DB

[@emphorepolpatinedasenate]

I hate the thin artstyle, always have, always will

[@justinsden]

Update : Bro the point you made about the Broly Movies revenue Vs the 3D aspect was so hilarious yet true. I always find your videos so entertaining. Keep it up! 🔥🔥🔥

[@inferstrike3544]

yo

[@CAGExplains]

Honestly when I found that out it was so hilarious, like WTF is wrong with Toei!? The fans want 2D, the animators want 2D... Just make it 2D 😂😂

[@johnstrife7]

Black freezer is the most laziest transformation after golden and beast gohan just let the dude die

[@eliteflite8395]

Finally a knowledgeable KZbinr that isn’t afraid to call out the nonsense of the pathetic state of the Dragon Ball franchise. FINALLY. Everyone else just keeps licking boots

[@falconeshield]

BotG was fantastic. The rest not so much

[@99range92def]

It was great but even though i like beerus and whees as characters their introduction sucked out all suspense/threat from any scenario goku and vegeta find them selves in.@@falconeshield

[@rochetstrider8725]

​@@falconeshieldbotG and Broly

[@DemX_HaX]

i just stopped reading the manga at this point. its obvious that toei/shueisha want toyotaro to adapt super hero in the manga and that toyotaro wants to write his own thing but is held down by toriyama's "notes" and that he apparently doesnt read anything besides dbz to take inspiration from. this is such a far cry from what made dbz so good its insane. toriyama is partly to blame too LOL its not just toyo's fault

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

I liked the 3D style they used in Super Hero, but it should not stay 3D forever. They made it work for one movie and that's all I think it needed to work for.

[@HerMi.T]

No, 3d is just another style. It doesn't make anything bad. Did you ever see orange work or even modern CGI, it looks fantastic. It is similar to 2d and 2d also has bad animation.

[@tinytoasters3657]

@@HerMi.T2D style dragon ball clears

[@recycledwaste8737]

​@@HerMi.T3D animation, even at its best, doesn't hold a candle to 2D.

[@Kaizaku-edits]

@@recycledwaste8737but we are 3D

[@Kaizaku-edits]

@@recycledwaste8737am i worth less than a line on paper

[@ilyescherguimalih8205]

DBS was in a pathetic state since release, childish pile of garbage

[@Kyeuss]

I’m mostly surprised why anyone cares about Dragon Ball at all anymore. I skipped around DBS and as someone who basically grew up while DBZ was first airing in the west, I think DBS is pretty trash. I don’t really get why people expect anything else besides new palette-swapped transformations. No compelling stories, no consequences, just straight sludge after Battle of Gods

[@time2e636]

Amazing video, been feeling this for a while, it’s such a boring, slog of a mess right now, I’ve actually started reading a fan manga called Dragon Ball Kakumei and it is absolutely phenomenal, easily the best looking manga I’ve ever seen

[@CAGExplains]

I need to read Kakumei!

[@lowclasswarrior9269]

Ever heard of Dragon Ball Absalon? Its fan made anime, looks bad but has its moments

[@dmitribrutus5543]

At this point, I wished they could focused a Dragonball series after the events of Shadow Dragons Saga in GT than going back to Z.

[@cantstopbrock]

A post-Shadow Dragon Arc story would be extremely ballsy but potentially amazing

[@JoyconsRUnDriftable-dx9vv]

We already have Bulma wishing to look 5 years younger, better eyelashes, cosmetic maintenance and an upgrade on her……. assets. I’d say that a Shadow Dragons arc could happen based on constant misuse of the Dragon Balls right now. Same like in GT.

[@Jose-se9pu]

I'm glad fans are starting to show a bit of apreciation for GT.

[@dmitribrutus5543]

@@Jose-se9puYeah, I wish they were more fans.

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

What's crazy to me is that if GT ever becomes canon in terms of when it takes place on the timeline, that means all of Super happened between GT and Z.

[@richborn6700]

Imagine if Evolution was never made, causing Toriyama to return to the franchise. I miss three series and four SSJ transformations more and more each day

[@TheReZisTLust]

I'd rather evolution 2 than Super ngl. At least we could all laugh at it together as community.

[@sydneyowusu3750]

That pretty much doesn't change anything really because I doubt toei wouldn't be like: alright let's milk this franchise.

[@Loekman3]

What about the other universes as well? I really want to see the characters outside of our universe yet after Tournament of Power, they stop receiving any spotlight whatsoever and instead we're focused entirely on Universe 7

[@andagean]

I feel like things like Dragonball Heroes (game) and Xenoverse helped keep it so strong along with the movies. but a full TV show just doesn't seem worth the investment at this point. The movies can draw in international crowds and that weekly buzz isn't necessary when so much of Dragonball in modern era feels carried by nostalgia. I'd love for good new content but if Toriyama himself doesn't want to make it I'm content to see it dormant. Series being able to end is a good thing.

[@davidstinger1134]

Then give them an ending, not just let it end in a wet fart where no one knows what's going on.

[@AdventVFX]

Dragon Ball FUCKING SUCKS right now aside from super hero and broly, Super has been an underwhelming series that just reminds you of what Z did better in almost everything

[@AdventVFX]

also toriyama's artstyle is so much worse than in the 80s-90s when he was doing the manga, like thin limbs looks so bad in dragon ball

[@AdventVFX]

actual bigger downgrade than yamamuro from 90s DBZ to DBZ in the 2000s

[@onisfury8264]

Because in Akira Toriyama's mind Dragon Ball is too popular to fail him and Toei Animation know that these newer Dragon Ball fans are hungry for more Dragon Ball content. Toriyama is rich and he doesn't care if Dragon Ball gets turned into absolute dogshit and is the reason why I refuse to support his product

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

​@@onisfury8264It isn't that bad. People literally use this to appeal to popularity

[@onisfury8264]

@@pric3lessl0s3r5 it isn't that bad it's horrendous Goku was never stupid but it was neither intelligent either but super makes Goku downright dumb and make him some relearn all his skills that he knew from the beginning.

[@dususbakahyahskahwbwm9113]

Amazing video. You do something that really helps with the authenticity of these videos; you don't mince words when it comes to the state of the franchise. I love this franchise, so it sucks hearing dissections of people pointing out it flaws, but so much of you what said is true. The truth hurts sometimes. Also, the amount of research you put into, especially the behind the scenes stuff is fantastic. It is very frustrating when people solely blame let's say Toyotaro for example for the state of DBS. When in actuality, Toriyama, Toei, and Toyotaro all contribute in some way shape or form.

[@blimbaily5133]

Don't really understand how people complain about the state of dbs when every argument you can make for dbz and db. That's the main part that I don't understand.

[@CAGExplains]

I'm glad you enjoyed the video bro, I'll ways speak my mind when it comes to anime and Dragon Ball, that's what this channel is all about 🔥

[@Halo3ninja28]

​@@blimbaily5133Most arguments against super only apply to the buu saga. DB and the first three arcs of Z are still classics. Ironically what you said could be applied to GT though. Goku being a child and the adventure story line is what makes DB so good and it didn't abandon the gains from Z to do it either. Yet people whine about non issues constantly because most Western fans didn't actually watch DB and want to see the same old fights constantly from Z, and that desire is how we got Super. A shallow superficial continuation of buu saga Toriyama writing that gets stupider and stupider as time goes on.

[@ItzTheVaudeVillian]

I'm just praying DB gets back to it's glory days

[@taylorsanada3180]

DB has always glorified

[@alastorthedemonslayer4257]

Personally I think it should just end already

[@Lowclasswarrior778]

It won’t those days are gone enjoy the cheap cash grab and colorful transformations instead

[@dunnono00]

The times have changed, the staff have changed, budgets and productions, etc... long gone are the days it was Toriyama surrounded by editors and assistants, furiously producing weekly chapters while Toei did its thing with the anime during the 1990's.

[@_Mikeebeed_]

@@taylorsanada3180?

[@aster4jaden]

God I miss when Dragon Ball Characters had muscles, I really hate the slim style.

[@yao.aboagye]

It’s the fault of the fans lol. This story should’ve honestly died with GT, wasn’t the greatest but it was wrapped up

[@ZombieMors]

Gt is not canon and it makes zero sence continuing the Z

[@Realhuman111]

Worst take of all time 😭😭

[@darkchild666100]

Read Young Jijii Dragonball AF manga. It's a good continuation of the story unlike Super...

[@darkchild666100]

@user-pb2iu Why? Because it doesn't have multiple hair colors and actually stayed with the Saiyan lore that's already been established in Z? Or is it because Super's power levels and God forms shits on GT? So higher power levels and endless God forms equates good writing, I'm assuming, according your logic. Or is it that GT means "Goku Time", when DBS is the very definition of Goku Time. Is it because Black Frieza, True Ultra Instinct, God of Destruction Vegeta, wishing to be the strongest in the universe, bringing back old villains to be stronger than current Goku and Vegeta, is cool to you and is Shakespearean type of writing, right?

[@painvillegaming4119]

@@darkchild666100…super 17 arc

[@ZeHoovy2595]

Alright, lets just be honest, who tf thought that it was a good idea to make the DRAGON BALL movie in freaking 3d?💀💀☠☠

[@SenkingFar]

To be honest, I agree with all the complaints except for the CGI one. In my opinion, the Super Hero movie is one of the best examples of 3d anime done right that I can think of.

[@GrubKiller436]

This guy thinks everything is bad, so it's not surprising.

[@SenkingFar]

However, if they wanted to make it in 2d and it was made into 3d, that is indeed a shame.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

He never said the CGi was bad, just pointless and not innovative (and it really wasn’t. It’s not something we haven’t seen before. Hell, he literally brings up Spider-Verse which was actually far more innovative than Super Hero, which is ironic considering Spider-Verse came out way back in 2018. Super Hero looks good but that’s it), and he was right, plus the CGI was less cost effective than 2D would’ve been (as shown in the video with statements from interviews). Don’t know where you picked up that he thought it was bad. Starting to think you weren’t paying attention, and knowing Dragonball fans, I wouldn’t be surprised if that were the case.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@GrubKiller436 tell me you don’t watch his videos without telling me. Typical. You can’t handle his criticisms so you just lie to yourself and say “he hates everything” to dismiss his critiques. Could’ve just not said anything and saved yourself the embarrassment, but nope, you had to cope and seethe in public. Social media brainrot strikes again.

[@Drumicall]

GT is great with some flaws like every show. At least it tried to respect what came before unlike Super.

[@crestofhonor2349]

GT is ok with tons of flaws that people seem to ignore now. GT does some things better than Super and Super does other things better. It's more like a battle between bad and bad

[@banjo9158]

@@crestofhonor2349 good things in GT far exceed the number of flaws, it's not bad.

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@banjo9158 I disagree. GT did a lot wrong even though I enjoyed it

[@banjo9158]

@@crestofhonor2349 Ok, list all the wrong things you think it have.

[@recycledwaste8737]

​@@banjo9158List everything wrong with GT? You got it! Episode 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, and 64.

[@plo617]

I haven't read the Super Manga, so I don't know it this has already been done or not. I think they need to add some story element to get the human characters back in the fight. Not some bs, out of nowhere, "they trained a little and can now keep up with Golden Freeza" reason. They can introduce some new technique or method to raise the humans' fighting abilities, that the Sayians can't (not even the hybrids) access. At least then we can get Krillin and Ten Shin Han back into relevance.

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

God ki and the concept of ultra instinct were both elements you could’ve had for the humans. Especially UI, cause if you’re saying Roshi can access just a spark of it, Tien and Krillin should be far above that capability

[@bootyburglar561]

@@dominiquerobinson8888 they never said roshi could its just a similar technique

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

@@bootyburglar561 That’s why I said a spark. Regardless, Krillin and Tien are greater martial artists so they should be able to do it as well. And more importantly they could’ve just flat out gave them god ki and ultra instinct and let the saiyans keep ssj

[@hbshadow8981]

Honestly Just let the human characters die and live a normal life without being influenced by the power creep dbs is killing itself to They have been outclassed since the saiyan saga ended, almost no reason to make them relevant anymore

[@plo617]

@@hbshadow8981 I hear you. I just think with all of these techniques and higher states of being that's been given to the Sayians, the human characters should've been given something to bridge the gap a bit as well. Not even all of them either. Just one or two of them. That could also allow for some potential human villians. I'm tired of the Sayians getting all of the love. After the Freeza saga, DBZ pretty much turned into the Sayian show.

[@crestofhonor2349]

I'm not suprised Super hero was more expensive. The way they story boarded it actually allowed it to be done in 2D animation as well as the way they animated it. Super Hero does look really good and had some really nice animation and wasn't bad at all. Much of the cost I wonder has to do with the fact that this is Toei's first fully CG movie.

[@Just_Some_Yonko_With_A_Beard]

I actually really like Toyotaro's art outside of, like you said, some inconsistencies here and there. he always got too much flak. the real problem with the manga for me is the fact that the series has been dry for years and after 3 months of radio silence, we basically get Superhero but longer and worse. I already didn't like Superhero. the 3D was a huge miss and Gohan Beast has got to be the lamest design even compared to lazier recolors. I liked Orange Piccolo and a few other things, but not much else. at this point, they're wasting resources as well as everyone's time. we could be learning who Zalama is or going to U6 but nah, let's wait a year for the exact same story we waited too long for only for it to underdeliver all over again. and now all this time later, we're getting some streaming anime literally no one was waiting for. obviously I'll give it a chance since we don't know much, but the leaks are already painting at something super corny and out of pocket.

[@topoffthecoupe1871]

the 3d in super hero was great

[@Just_Some_Yonko_With_A_Beard]

@@topoffthecoupe1871 to each their own. To me it was a nothing burger and now the manga is serving us the nothing fries.

[@topoffthecoupe1871]

@@Just_Some_Yonko_With_A_Beard fair response tbh

[@kapayasiame3632]

@@Just_Some_Yonko_With_A_Beard 😂😂

[@kapayasiame3632]

@@topoffthecoupe1871 it’s okay but it was just jarring after coming from the broly movie.

[@inkchariot6147]

Dragonball turned to crap ever since DB Minus when they ripped off Superman's origin story.

[@CAGExplains]

I've got to do a video on Minus sometime, Jaco the Galactic Patrolman was a fun gag manga then Toriyama ruined it with DB-

[@aka-fusion8909]

It literally contradicts the entire saiyan saga, this is the issue with toriyama forgetting things is that he contradicts what makes the story so good

[@DJ792YT]

I take it it's called Minus because of how it subtracted from Bardock's character.

[@aka-fusion8909]

@@DJ792YT couldn’t have been worded better 😂😂

[@aka-fusion8909]

@@CAGExplains u have to make a rant video on db minus. Shit is what killed Dbs for me

[@christopher8295]

Dbs...... Is trash, that thing should never had seen the day and i mean it sincerely. What they are doing is almost criminal at this point when they have an absolute gem in their hands. I've seen fananimation/fanmanga much much better than that crap they are giving us, i'm into it like when i was a kid reading/watching old school db. When i watch super i feel none of this, i'm facepalming, they should really had let this manga rest to begin with OR giving the manga rights to competent peoples who do care and understand dragon ball. I don't care if dbs is toriyama's actual vision of db, u can't just ignore all that had been done in the past and why we all did fall in love with db in the 1st place. I will NEVER consider dbs canon, never.....

[@VicMeep]

​@@prodplu2oNice deflecting and I bet you haven't even watched GT without jumping on the unnecessary negative bandwagon even though I'm pretty sure the majority of us grew up with it along with DBZ

[@christopher8295]

Exactly, i agree

[@power279]

​@@prodplu2oSO YOU ARE SAYING ALL DBS HATERS ARE GT FANS? LOL.

[@christopher8295]

@@prodplu2o As bad as gt is, atleast we never did got a betrayal as big as dbs did ESPECIALLY when it come to goku's character, when u see gt goku, u have a hint of that very same eoz goku back in the final chapter of the original manga, and it's litteraly the same character once he turn ss4, when i look at super goku i'm facepalming and cannot take him seriously even 1minute, dude feel and act like a rookie both in life AND when it comes to fighting.... Gt had ton, ton of flaw i admit but what super did is criminal and that's absolute fact, u are free to love super just how i'm free to hate it as an old school db fan.

[@banjo9158]

@@prodplu2o "oldheads" these goddamn zoomers, always saying shit like this.

[@coco3584]

It’s so awesome to see how much respect this franchise that I loved as a child is getting by everyone involved. Like even the creator couldn’t care less

[@AlxndrXX]

Toriyama should fucking retire and let toyataro do his thing with super. Tui is rad

[@kazzykaioken8873]

Dragonball super has zero potential and is a cashgrab with nothing else to it

[@SpareMango]

There are so many good ideas introduced in the manga only to be immediately ruined

[@jxneolycan2882]

That’s DB as a whole right now.

[@lowclasswarrior9269]

I'm genuinely curious what y'all think of One Punch Man

[@citizenvulpes4562]

Them bringing back Dragon Ball after that Dragon Ball Z movie with Beerus was always a mistake for me. I always thought battle of Gods was THE END. I mean how far can you go? Goku became a SSJ God. Then they turned his hair into a crayola crayon box by adding blue and white.

[@hurricane7727]

He was actually not supposed to use any Ssj forms originally post Bog Movie

[@your1hero]

Finally someone says it, honestly once I realized Vegeta didn't get the W by killing Frieza when watching the movie when it was barely in theaters, I knew the series would disappoint me. Crappy animation, Trunks arc was the best, even though U6 arc was just the definitive start of the series. Hell i think they should have added a little bit of some manga content for tournament arc. CGi movie looked boring through the footage i saw, not too mention beast Gohan is just Akira Toriyama's original ssj, but i remember it as El Blanco, basically the hype was dead once i knew it was coming while already watched gohanverse series with teen gohan black and teen el blanco.moro is a soul eater version of perfect cell and granolah is actually interesting but gave us bootleg Bojack crew, also black frieza was actually cool. Overall Super is just not cutting it, especially Daima.

[@lucasbianco.treinador]

Lets be honest, it does not make any sense reproducing the movie in the manga, They are just cooking us, i have not been reading the manga since the final of the granola arch

[@dc7981]

Dont bother continuing

[@andagean]

Just happy to see you uploading really enjoy your stuff. Shame about modern DB in general.

[@CAGExplains]

I appreciate that bro, I'm back to regular (and less depressing) uploads

[@RetroRanter]

I don't know how this is the first video of yours I've stumbled across but I love it! Every point was..on point, the state of modern DB just makes me sad..theres brillaint moments hidden in a pile of corporate, kiddiefied trash, having No idea where to take the show or manga. Brillaint work keep it up...oh and any use of Guile's Street Fighter EX3 theme deserves an instant subscribe 😂

[@CAGExplains]

I appreciate that bro! Glad you finally found me and I see you also have excellent taste in video game OSTs 🔥🤝

[@cloudshifter]

I hate what I am about to say but Toyotaro and ESPECIALLY Toriyama doen't really have a story to tell anymore and that was somewhat the case for a while. That's where the problem it really stems from. They have simply told the story they wanted to say and now scramble to find something, anything, even rewritting the movie again which purpose was to not be a manga story arc to begin with but rather a side story as the manga continued on to have a "meantime" type of storyline.

[@falconeshield]

We should've had the movies and the manga. Super the TV show should've been a now thing

[@velmaallen-y2c]

great video we need a black frieza arc i like dbs superhero but we need somthing new

[@CAGExplains]

Black Freeza Blue Balled the entire fanbase! 💀

[@luisfernan-s7731]

​@@CAGExplainsis it because he's black? (💀)

[@OhMyItsEli]

DBZ fans when the author dares to do something that isn't a roided out fisting competition:

[@brobot2059]

Vegeto was dressed in super like he was in Z because they didn’t want to stray from the toy merchandise that already existed.

[@_Podzilla_]

Where the DB franchies could've ended: Buu arc: Earth is saved by destroying a universal threat with one of the most iconic moves powered up by one of the most iconic forms DBGT: Most iconic move used once again to destroy the opposing force of one of the most iconic objects in anime and what essentially started the show Super ToP: Oh... okay multiversal opponents and god forms... neat? Hey at least the universes are saved and- oh, there's more... Honestly, only good thing that came out from DB as of recent was the Broly movie, and that was 5 years ago. Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo just feels like a power wank

[@TwilightWolf032]

The problem is that Dragonball never explores lateral growth (as in characters gaining new techniques that change the battlefield due to how it affects their fighting style and how it relates to the environment, their opponent, etc - think how Naruto used his clones to pretend to be guarding the real one against Neji, only for him to have been underground the whole time), instead only makes the characters become stronger and stronger without any changes besides their power levels. That means, in order to give the characters something to grow from a narrative standpoint, they can't tie their growth to their power level because it's already ridiculously high and every story to be told with that tie up has already been told. But instead of doing something different, they instead decide to reset Goku's learning experiences to zero and make him having to relearn meditation, calmness and even what a kiss is! Which leads to another issue with Dragonball in general, the fact they just can't drop Goku! Goku's arc has been completed a long time ago, it was Gohan's time to shine, but Toriyama had no idea how to write someone who wasn't Goku and immediately took the spotlight from him. Remember: the anime made several filler episodes where Gohan gets to be the protagonist and involve the school and the new cast his age, exploring how he acts around people his age and how out of his element he is in the city, but the manga only had 4 chapters before the whole ordeal was killed off in a quick gag. That means Gohan spent only 4 chapters as the protagonist and Toriyama himself didn't allow him time to grow. Whenever he tried to put Gohan back in the spotlight, he was playing Goku (being late to the fight, getting a power up while everyone else was jobbing for him, then coming back with a new transformation out of his ass and kicking the opponent's ass), so much that Toriyama just decided to make Gohan lose and gave the spotlight back to Goku AGAIN! The problems with Dragonball's writing come from the incessant spotlighting of Goku and Goku only, refusal to explore different styles of fighting and focus entirely on larger numbers, and they just keep resetting the character's experiences in order to create a narrative for them instead of making the narrative flow organically.

[@darsoma95]

It’s become ash forgetting everything and restarting every new series even though it’s a continuation and not a reboot

[@TwilightWolf032]

@@darsoma95 And that too was really frustrating for people that accompanied him for a long time.

[@darsoma95]

It's the literal reason I stopped watching the pokemon shows lol@@TwilightWolf032

[@originaljips]

Thats lazy. There is no reasons why we couldn't get Goku evolution alongside the other Z fighters. We seeing this in alot of mangas already. The multiverse storyline was an opening to even more interesting stories; u could imagine the Z fighters all strand in different universes; ; heck even being inspired by the DC/Marvel comics stories to tell something cosmic! And we could have imagined Goku meanwhile trying to reaching godlike status. But no. We want the stupid 13 years old to buy our toys. Where u that stupid at 13yrs? Maybe. But I remember i already loved good stories. And thats not it here.

[@zacariasnelson5753]

If you think that we haven’t gotten a new season of super because of capitalism then you don’t understand capitalism in the slightest. Not throwing shade, just stating an observation

[@digiing1992]

Too much nostalgia over something new. Why? Because it's less risky and requires less effort/time/etc. And that's although we see the mixed results.

[@wolveric0]

after watching every episode and movie of Dragon Ball Super there is only one thing i can say about the experience... it was rough, Saiyan blue was completely wasted and turned into a joke, the new saiyans from universe 6 are trash and unevenly powered, they completely wasted Gogeta blue and make Saiyan blue look like a joke (again), gave Gohan the ugliest transformations trying to copy the best Super Saiyan form in all DB history (SS2 Teen Gohan), Orange Piccolo was cool though, and goku is a complete cringe machine and a shadow of his former self, i enjoyed Frieza a lot though. and, after watching your video about the Granolah and the Moro arc, it seems the future of DB super will be really bleak.

[@CAGExplains]

Honestly Freeza is the only character that benefited from Dragon Ball coming back, after a rough start in RoF

[@SuperStationCr1]

Vegetto and Gogeta actually saved the Blue form it's a shame that such a cool concept for a form was reduced to a recolor. The manga handle not only the forms better but the characters themselves and even tho Toei did cook with Blue Kaioken and the TOP I'd still swallow the pill and take a consistent, cared for, and well made adaptation of the manga than an anime that's only purpose from the get go was merchandising and sales

[@EditsAnimations]

İn DragonballZ Kakarot cell says that he lied and said that telling an enemy your weakness would be stupid

[@israelmcclain8097]

I think DB Daima just proved this 😭

[@Jose-se9pu]

Dragon Ball has become a thing you just wish someone would put it out of it's misery.

[@TommyMG96]

Does Toriyama even have any modern-ish photos of him online that isn't from the 80s/90s? Man seems like a total hermit nobody ever sees.

[@jasonkoroma4323]

Thats just being smart. When you reach a level of popularity privacy is not something you want to take for granted.

[@DivineOrange]

There was this more modern photo, of him in a adidas tracksuit his modern photo makes him look like a bum lol

[@just_an_internet_explorer8038]

HxH fans: “I feel like a man dying of thirst watching another man drown.”

[@tripleg6]

Whoops.

[@zervaunt]

Are you on crack? DB fans are eating lavishly

[@globalpotaoto6681]

I personally don’t think the granola arc was horrible, it had some questionable writing moments but most series do that last this long. Choreography was solid even GREAT at some points with really solid artwork.

[@uribevaldezargenis8862]

All the Bardock part was unnecesary, I feel focusing more on the antagonist instead of going for that route of making Bardock a hero would have been better. Remember how in the start of the arc Elek was hyped for being a different type of antagonist that uses the brain instead of brute force but in the end his plan was very stupid? I'm confident that if they didn't waste time on the Bardock backstory they could have developed the antagonist (especially Gas) way better

[@theclosecall4095]

my guy thats literally all DB series must do, GOOD ENOUGH fighting scenes. literally the shallowest standard it should give us. for me its a nonfactor if you want to judge db series and granola arc was not good at all

[@dreamsdeep1076]

@@theclosecall4095haha funny, did a KZbinr gave you that opinion XD

[@newmnsilver]

Gotta disagree with choreography "being great". Excluding fillers, DBZ had some of the (if not best) cleanest fights out of all DB series. Super has wasted potential. It's all they put into it just to keep the franchise going. No creative thoughts in the fighting choreography. Bro, the fight between Android 17 and Piccolo in the Cell Saga is cleaner than many of the ToP fights. CLEANER, not just pulling out random blasts, random movements, and random pointless filler fight conversations. Clean choreography has no need for filler words and dependency on flashy blasts like Super does. Plus Piccolo's power up moments were even more chilling than many transformations in Super. These are my opinions but you cannot deny the great quality of DBZ.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@dreamsdeep1076 haha funny, did a redditor give you that response

[@mobileterrarian3653]

It's honestly such a shame to know it's in this state. Don't get me wrong, I don't find it all boring or bad, per se, but I do see why others believe it is.

[@assburgers123]

i agree with most of the points except the CGI part i think it looks amazing, CGI hate needs to stop lmao

[@Joan-jq5ho]

Its a bit sad when you put it in perspective that Toriyama shifted the story he wanted to put in his story in favor to what the fans wanted

[@CAGExplains]

Yeah I plan to make a whole video about the abandoned Gohan/Great saiyaman arc next month or December

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

It's not,the sad thing is Toriyama doing that shit arc.

[@hardcoore_gyt9254]

He didn’t he never had listened to fans

[@Joan-jq5ho]

@@hardcoore_gyt9254 Did you literally ignore the fact that it was mentioned in this video how it was mentioned that Toriyama did change the story to appeal to what the fans wanted over what he wanted ?

[@hardcoore_gyt9254]

@@Joan-jq5ho bro one KZbinr presenting his opinion is not fact he’s also shown the fact that Toriyama doesn’t listen to fans and does what he wants

[@AhmadAli-sj5fs]

I think they need to rewrite the story and do a true Z successor.

[@koffibentum7452]

No they'll just waste even more time

[@hertzwave8001]

third time's the charm? (it's not)

[@noanswer1864]

I'd rather watch a 2d show animated by AI, in which no one's hands look right, and anyone with a gun or sword has it growing out of a random bodypart, than a 3d animated anime. We've been doing 3D animation for a good long while now. Even when we really really try, a low-framerate anime with washed out color from the late 80's still looks far more visually appealing. Maybe it's because we use 3D as a way to do things cheaply. I don't know, and no longer care. Appleseed would probably be talked about among the other greats of it's era if the movie hadn't looked like a hastily made ps2 cutscene.

[@spritvio639]

See this is why you guys shouldn't be supporting everything just it says Dragon Ball on it.

[@Randomaccount9470]

Oh plz this braindead fanbase would listen ive been saying this since blob vegita arc Now they hunting for the manga 😂not to mention buying all of the merchandise

[@alishabazz7431]

It will only get worse. This is what happens with any great series that you run for too long. DB should’ve NEVER came back other than giving us movies and leaving it there. This is DBS is a POPULAR series (riding off the nostalgia of the former) yet a Disaster in comparison to the former.

[@LowkeyFawkes]

Dragon Ball Super hero is the only dragon ball movie I've seen in theaters mainly because It's the only time I've seen a dragon ball movie playing in theaters. After being blown away with Broly I expected the same level of quality and didn't hesitate to buy tickets and I did not enjoy it. The 3dcg looked like garbage and ruined the quality of the art.

[@edgardoMurnia]

3d anime looks AWFUL. I don't understand why they can't understand this.

[@williammelville5842]

These videos are so fun and well produced. One of the most criminal understated KZbin channels. Screenshot this, for when CAGE blows up.

[@CAGExplains]

I'll come back to this comment after I blow up, glad you enjoyed the video! 🔥😂

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

17:00 Ive been arguing this point with Dragonball fans for YEARS and here a youtuber says this 2 week ago with no push back. Im dumbfounded. Been saying that the DGS Manga is NOT CANON due to these reasons: 1. It came AFTER THE ANIME 2. Toyotaro DOES NOT OWN THE IP. Toei does so Toyo is more like a dude doing a comic book run like Jason Arron or GeoffJohns. DRAGONBALL IS NOT HIS BABY so what he says/does is largely irrelevant 3.Toei, the IP owner, ACTS LIKE THE MANGA DOESN'T EXIST. As you mentioned, nothing Toyotaro does is acknowledged by Toei 4. THE ANIME AND MANGA ARE VERY DIFFERENT. This is purely an exercise of LOGIC as both CANT be canon. Obviously, the media created by the IP Owner, Toei, is going to be canon over Toyotaro who is a glorified fanfic writer Dragonball sheeple are something else i swear but seems like people are FINALLY coming around

[@ZaiDrizzleDrop]

personally I think the 3D in dragon ball super hero was some of the best Dragon ball looked, I think it was some of the best 3D animation I've ever seen, some of the most expressive and actually good looking fighting in dragon ball. Because lets be honest, a lot of Dragon ball fights are reused frames, but in Super Hero, there was actually moves and it actually looked like martial arts (probably?) I mean if it means saving time, if we get THAT quality of 3D animation, it doesnt seem bad at all. I kind of just feel like people dislike 3D idk

[@064razor]

People have 3d-phobia when it comes to anime where it doesn't even make sense most of the time.

[@angelsackson]

@@064razoryeah, when it looks like simpsons hit & run, you’re just embarassing yourself defending it…

[@064razor]

@@angelsackson Man, what are you even looking at?

[@tudedude5793]

I find that if you look at Superhero and compare it to Broly, in general the hand to hand fighting and choreography is superior in Superhero, while the flashy ki and visual effects and flying sequences are better in Broly. The sound design and animation in Superhero just give all those blows so much more weight, and it’s much easier to see damage and fatigue in the characters compared to Broly. Broly had excellent choreography, pretty much the best we had seen up until that point, but its much less grounded than Superhero which makes all the blows feel softer and less impactful in comparison. I also feel like Superhero made much better use of the environment in fights, it used the Red Ribbon Army base much better than Broly used the Ice Continent. But I feel that the 3D style really limited the animators capabilities to go all out with all the fancy dragon ball flair that we come to expect. You really only get that when Beast Gohan shows up and that scene, beautiful as it is, just LOOKS expensive. Compare that to basically the entire fight with SSJ Broly and Gogeta where there is just so much crazy bullshit going on for dozens of minutes on end and despite all that it feels like it would be much easier for the animators to handle than Beast Gohan’s shorter scene for example.

[@ZaiDrizzleDrop]

@@064razor yeah exactly, I mean, while I like this channel and how it critiques dragon ball, every time I hear this, or anyone talk about the 3D, it always just sounds like....2D IS JUST BETTER OKAY?! ITS TRADITIONAL!! But I think to myself....but like, 2D is MUCH more time consuming and difficult, especially if you guys are ALSO asking for a new season to come out, you cant have your cake and eat it too. People cant just shit out 2d animation, not to mention you have to find good animators, and considering the timing, maybe particular ones that you want are already working on another project. With 3D theres already an established art style and you dont have to worry about things looking off model due to conflicting art styles. And like I said earlier, the 3D demonstrated in Superhero was PHENOMENAL, and it ACTUALLY shows fight choreography that looks martial arts -like, unlike the senseless smashing into eachother we usually see in DB. Before I actually watched Super, I went "yeah I'm not watching this, because its 3D, it looks like ass." I came out of the gate hating it. " But then I saw some clips that looked amazing, and then I watched it. And it was probably my favorite dragon ball movie, and its definetly my favorite kind of animation, probably some of the most expressive., and its not stiff at all, and super impactful, while also having great movement and fight choreography. Basically what I'm saying, is that I useed to be one of those people that automatically shat on it, because it was 3D. But look at Dragon ball fighter Z. Like Dont get me wrong, in most cases I prefer 2D, but the 3D in SUPERHERO was awesome, and I still have yet to hear any decent reasons as to why they shouldnt use it in the future aside from, WAAAH WE DONT LIKE 3D, ITS NOT TRADITIONAL OR EXPRESSIVE ENOUGH. Like bullshit, you people act like Dragon Ball Super wasnt bland as hell for the most part. nLooked way too boring. I will say though, the shading for Superhero could be a bit more interesting, but thats all I think. And like I said, you cant beg for a new season, while also begging for them to make it 2D, that shits super time consuming than if they made it 3D, and if they used tee 3d syl from the movie, I'd be perfectly fine with it, because that shit was among the best 3D animation I've ever seen. I'd even dare to say it was some of the best fighting choreography from Dragon Ball.

[@raymundoalcantara1422]

Never would I imagine that KZbin recommended me an obscure pal bitching for about 20 minutes about Dragon Ball. .

[@Mokujin__]

I just don't agree with the whole 3D being bad thing, I found Super Hero one of the best looking DragonBall we had in a long time, the transformations fit fine for everyone and the new characters are great. People who say it looks like a PS2 game clearly never played a PS2 game and understand nothing about animation. It was an experiment, and it worked great. It's fresh air, it's unique instead of going with the same 3D art direction we are seeing these days and satisfied many of us fans of smaller characters

[@dreamsdeep1076]

It looks like garbage. The cgi is nowhere near as good as cgi cutscenes seen in xenoverse games or cinematic cutscenes in dragon ball Z kakarot. The cgi lacks fluid motion and hurts my eyes. If cgi looks anywhere close to any of those two games I would have praise the move in changing the animation from 2D to 3D

[@Mokujin__]

@@dreamsdeep1076 you clearly understand nothing about animation movies but you can have your opinions

[@Mokujin__]

@urbanyouths i can't take people who say "ps2 graphics" seriously, sorry

[@Mokujin__]

@urbanyouths That's one of the most stupid answers I've ever read. I clearly said I don't agree with your point and I find the "ps2 graphics" argument insanely dumb

[@Mokujin__]

@urbanyouths dude you have to be so miserable if you think I know you're right, also there is no "we", you're the only one speaking

[@hope-of-the-future9028]

You and all your fans in here… are prime examples of the saying “Don’t Argue with Dragon Ball fans they don’t read their own manga.”😂😂

[@DaniG._.German]

Buu staring at the hourglass 😂

[@AkiroZenshin25]

Basically representing on how much we need to wait for the Superhero retelling to end

[@commonbridge4735]

That made me smile lol

[@shivalrus]

I feel like you’re voicing your opinion but it’s not very interesting. All the points you’re making is- this is bad and I don’t like this. Dragon ball is fighting and slice of life is not what we want. Speak for yourself I guess but dragon ball would be a lot more boring if all they did was fight and none of the slice of life stuff was there. That’s half the charm in og db and z. Super lost that and became new transformation next arc fight new transformation. It got repetitive with less slice of life fun and the characters became fighting machines. While I will say dragon ball should’ve ended after cell or buu saga- the issue with super is exactly what you think is right. The fighting. These characters are freakishly strong aliens but at their core they still have emotions. It’s more impactful when you see goku and krillin train together to see him get killed by frieza. You see the bond form and then break. That’s what supers missing. And that’s why super will never be good- because it goes against the original formula.

[@bumblebower1529]

Dragon ball super is a disgrace I just rewatch og dragon ball and z over and over again to keep my sanity

[@sydneyowusu3750]

If you don't like super that's on you just watch other anime my guy.

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

This guy mad coping on something that isn't so bad

[@Say_King77]

@@pric3lessl0s3r5🤡

[@gregkareem9824]

Cope! The hating vibes is on another level from u

[@Lowclasswarrior778]

Agreed looks like you caught the attention of a few super tards too

[@GuiltyGaming]

When TFS’ Buu Bits is the best drop of Dragonball-related content this year.

[@Mox1990]

Still can’t believe dragon ball actually made gohan blanco canon. Can’t wait for El Hermano to one short black frieza.

[@alucardSSBM]

In short, Toriyama's creative direction has suffered greatly over the years.

[@zold9896]

You are legitimately the best Dragon Ball KZbinr on the platform right now. You have a way of putting difficult to verbalize concepts into words that are easy to understand, and honestly the honesty is refreshing at a time like this. I except great things from you!

[@BirdieSenpai]

It's times like these I can't help but wish Dragon Ball had truly concluded with the manga's end in 1995. I love much of what Toriyama's films and Toyotarô's manga (Moro and Granolla aside) have done with Dragon Ball since its return a decade ago, but the downsides have truly stained the series retroactively, from Goku retroactively not being a martial arts master, the dip in quality with the Moro arc and become a travesty with the Granolla arc, and the absolute dumpster fire the Super anime was from start to finish. At this point, I want to cut my losses, enjoy the good things since Dragon Ball's return in 2013 and end not just the Super series but the Dragon Ball franchise as a whole before things get even worse, if you can even get worse than the Granolla arc and the Super anime.

[@AdventVFX]

if they never continued Z and reanimate it in an artstyle like the intro in super hero it would be a perfect adaptation

[@QGUU]

Moro arc was fire

[@CasualSpec]

Modern Dragonball is for the audience that fit into the category "Turn off your brain, and just enjoy. If something doesn't nake sense to you, you are a hater." Toriyama can smear dog crap on paper, and they'll be fans to come up with it's background story, and call it canon.

[@nsampone3]

Sounds like you didn't pay that much attention to the film if you think the manga hasnt added or changed anything.

[@mbphilipblack8993]

Budokai Tenkaichi 4 has all the HYPE. But I agree the state DBS is in now is utterly ridiculous, shameful even. Super Super Hero brought some interest but also due to ass pull transformations has divided the fanbase yet again, the prequel arc with Trunks and Goten who cares and recapping the Super Super hero storyline I guess canonises it so is needed I just hope we get Morro and Granola ANIMATED the Anime needs to comeback. And now the manga continuity is all over the place as they're trying to converge with the anime. Black Freiza needs to be at the forefront and the oracle fish reflecting on who's the strongest now that Beast Gohan is in the picture. And what happened to that web anime and apparently there's basically a reworked GT in the work. Just disappointing.

[@half8n191]

Yup I completely stopped reading the manga once I saw it was going to be the super hero movie re told for the next year