The Perfect Printer Doesn’t Exist… Until Now? Vivedino Marathon: Large, Enclosed, Klipper, IDEX!

[@karmachameleon326]

Full respect to anyone who is willing to spend $1100 up front on a machine that doesn’t even exist yet - I’d love to get it at that price, as well, but we have no idea when this beast is going to be real, much less know if it will be what is advertised. I want one, once it’s a real thing and has a few reviews under its belt.

[@jasonvongsay2620]

I just got mine delivered today! In the process of unboxing it!

[@VeresIoan]

When did you order it?​@@jasonvongsay2620

[@sumanbimali]

@@jasonvongsay2620why don’t you do a video

[@Chad.The.Flornadian]

Great interview. Dr. Dan really knows his mechanics. You might want to pass along to him that really nobody likes having the spool holder on the back like that. You just know all the KZbin reviewers will pick at that.

[@italianpizzasecrets4761]

This printer is receiving low attention also because formbot does not reply to emails asking for more technical details. Let alone they share very little on their website about critical aspects. This has been highlighted also in Discord channel. If Formbot wants this printer to be a success they need to state clearly all technical details. I will watch extensively this video to understand what questions will get answered :) And thanks for your videos!!

[@ygk3d]

Thanks for watching. Formbot doesn’t value influcencer marketing, which is why you see their products featured on my channel and virtually nowhere else. It’s unfortunate because their printers could receive a lot of attention if they sent out review units like every other printer brand.

[@mkhmkh1266]

I got several questions answered. maybe because I'm already a customer.

[@Liberty4Ever]

I've been waiting for a prosumer grade 3D printer that a small business could purchase for prototyping then scale up into a small print farm without having a full time employee to maintain eight 3D printers. I'm waiting to buy a large format FDM printer until there is something I like with steel rails, which seems like a necessity for a high speed printer if it's going to last a long time. I like the Cartesian design of the Marathon with the heavy bed moving only in the Z axis. The X axis motors adding mass to the print heads limits speed but I'm more interested in print quality and reliability than absolute speed. I have a couple of product designs that I'd like to implement with a structural material (ABS, PC-CF, etc.) and TPU and the Marathon looks great for that application. $1200 is a reasonable price so kudos for keeping the cost low for a quality 3D printer. I wonder how much the shipping will cost. Open source hardware and the full version of open source Klipper is a huge win and makes me much more likely to invest in a 3D printer. I subscribed for more Marathon info as it becomes available.

[@TheJacklwilliams]

Agreed wholeheartedly and ill add, industry standard, top shelf components like the BTT board and Moon servo’s. This is truly a standout top notch unit. Quite exciting!

[@aslanerdogan3602]

290 Euro to Berlin

[@MisterkeTube]

2 steppers on each printhead is going to have a significant weight impact, both on those heads and on the entire x gantry. Sorry, but I think a dual CoreXY would have been a better idea here or CroXXY (so CroXY with two separate X crossbars for the heads). Those would keep the steppers for motion away from the heads.

[@ygk3d]

Fair point. We’ll have to wait and see how it performs. I’d like to see the input shaper graphs.

[@802Garage]

Sounds like an impressive and genuinely useful printer. I'd much rather have an IDEX for multi-color than an AMS style system. An IDEX with dual ports on a mixing head like the new Rencolor AC-10 could be even more powerful. More efficient than an AMS with endless possibilities. At any rate, very cool interview!

[@MrHeHim]

Wonder if how much work to still run AMS on the parked tool head for more that 2 materials/colors on a single print 🤔that way one will be switching to another filament while one is still printing. On larger prints that could save some time, although waste more filament via purging. I only printed a handful of things on my old Replicator Dual from 12 years ago, the prints always came out sub par. I used a shell around the part to catch filament hanging of the extruder and some custom g-code and cylinder tower to wipe and purge into with the heater turned off to stop flow. Once i "perfected" it, i rarely used it and pulled the second extruder off the head after a year. No matter what the second tool head eventually would always hit the part, and i was too lazy to mod the board to add a part cooler.

[@802Garage]

@@MrHeHim Hahaha that's old school! Now Sovol even makes a super affordable IDEX I'm sure is more reliable than that. I bet this new printer will be a massive improvement. Dual AMS on an IDEX is an interesting idea.

[@sabahoudini]

This is really cool. I like the motion system with the motors in the toolheads. Short belts are always good.

[@ericthecyclist]

Two things I think I missed: calibration of relative offsets for the idex heads (x,y,z of one versus the other), how you get first layer height established (what most new designs now do with force sensors)

[@ygk3d]

That information is at @8:30. You can find it using the chapter markers in the description.

[@ericthecyclist]

@@ygk3d Hmm, that sounds reasonable. not as automated as some, but better than the first layer height hell I have to do with my MK3S

[@_xano]

there is nothing (at least I didn't seen) about calibration between heads in X axis. With current speeds, high volume nozzles etc dual mode like clone / mirror absolutly doesnt have sense, I need IDEX for printing with 2 different filaments i.e. ASA/TPU or for washable supports. This calibration is crucial to have good adhesion between materials and to have ofc good looking parts.

[@bluerider0988]

​@@_xano He said there are screw adjustments. He said you lower both Nozzles until they touch the bed. How well this works will be seen when he tests out. Our industrial printers at work are similar. They are not idex but they have 3 separate Nozzles on the print head and you use a special gauge and a threaded adjuster to set all of the nozzled to the same height. The challenge can be that often when you tighten the screws they move slightly. So you end up having to compensate for that slight movement when you set them.

[@emberprototypes]

It sounded like the calibration process is just the standard line pattern, so you would either have to do it that way or use a camera tool like our CXC to do it more easily and accurately.

[@MsJellyfan]

a bit too small for me :-( a 350/350/350) would be awesome, becuse of copy mode, the bed shrinks a lot :-D i use it often and would love to place bigger models on it. my 300x300 is slightly to small :-( for my regular prints to get copied :-( 150 width on my sovol is too small for a lot of my prints plus brim or skirt and purge...and if the speed becomes faster...my prints i´m able to achieve in the same time also grow, so the bed has to, as well

[@txwombat7826]

Agreed

[@redkingrauri3769]

I have the most petty of petty gripes about the design of it: I really don't like rectangular beds. They make it much harder to find replacement/alternatives for the flex sheets. If this had 325x325 or even 300 all around it' be much better IMO. That said still happy it exists and I like the ratrig-based idex design.

[@ygk3d]

Totally fair point. At least Formbot tends to have good prices for their spare parts so you could pick up a few extra sheets at what should be a reasonable price.

[@SeaTaj]

A lot of the chinese manufacturers like energetic will make custom sizes without much issue.

[@kennethhicks2113]

Def looking forward to more detail. Ty for the vidy/interview Gentlemen.

[@ygk3d]

Thanks for watching!

[@mkhmkh1266]

We need 30mm^3 flow stock with Klipper. The Dragon Ace will do 40mm^3 with a .6mm nozzle with PETG for the cost of about 5mm in z.

[@bujin5455]

That is quite exciting. I keep looking for a fast, reliable, large format printer. Unfortunately the K1 doesn't really look good to me, nor did the Voron prebuilt clones, and I didn't want to build a Voron myself. Here's hoping this delivers the goodness!

[@skaltura]

Looks awesome, and i so want to buy it (but got too many printers! JUST refreshed my print farm, and ratrig vcore 3.1 is waiting assy) I hope this sells like mad; we need more affordable top notch engineered printers. but; My OCD is a bit annoyed with the HAT not being same dimensions as the frame. Tho, hat being affixed or not, would affect input shaping most likely. Same as the surface the printer is on (flimsy table, vs. say concrete slab) The engineer in me would like to see quick connects for it so that it would add to the strength to the frame too, or permanent fixture possibility, just screws you can access with electric screwdriver to open quickly if top access required. ALSO Chamber heater; There's a fan + thermistor, it would be very trivial at factory to add that too for tighter control of ambient improving print quality with less deviation between parts.

[@TBD3D]

Thank you for the video. I do a lot of two color printing, and I’m looking for a good Idexx Printer. I’m very interested in seeing unboxing and review.

[@briandrose]

I love it. The Z offset technique is cool, but I am concerned about a "potato chipped" bed/"bowled" bed. What quality control of the bed flatness will there be? I wonder about bed material - if its extruded Al-clad, or if its cast, etc.... for dimensional stability at printing temps (ABS @ 110°C).

[@ygk3d]

That’s a valid concern. As Dan mentioned, the flatness of the bed is critical for mirror and copy mode. For regular printing, the bed mesh will compensate. According to the specs it is a cast aluminum plate. I’ll have to to do some testing of this after I receive mine and see how good it really is.

[@williamgreen3316]

​@@ygk3dAny idea will you'll get to to test one?

[@MakerViking]

Looks interesting, just sad that I can't afford it. Would have been awesome to test it out.

[@JerradMC90]

I will be eagerly awaiting your review. I’ve been actively looking for an IDEX and like what I see.

[@ErrorlessRBLX]

How suitable would this printer be for printing extremely flexible filaments?

[@erikfs]

This is really interesting, thank you for the video! Dan: I see other enclosed printers often let you place the filament inside the printer, would this be possible here? And yes, not all of us can easily access the back of the printer and we'd be happy to have more options of where to put our filament. You've probably thought of this already, but if we could easily add the Nevermore or Bentobox filter to this, that would be great!

[@johnpickens448]

I don't see any info on two key points in the Formbots page 1: What is the layout of the Y axis drive? Linear guides? Belt? 2. How is tension controlled on the X axis belt? You have two toolheads each riding on a 3 pulley belt offset, and tension of that belt will be crucial in providing accuracy and controlling harmonics.

[@ygk3d]

Those are both great questions. I’m not sure but I will investigate

[@joehimes9898]

While they are tweaking last details, would it be possible to tweak the spool holders from the back to the side?

[@ygk3d]

Not sure but I’ll pass along the feedback

[@CristianVlad-ry9kp]

Felicitări și mult succes Dr. Dan!

[@FTGTapGod]

Really interesting project! I want a purpose made machine for the work I've been doing so I've been trying to decide what I want as my new flagship in the shop. Kind of narrowed it down to a Voron Trident, but could debate taking the risk on something like this. Is there a set shipping date? I see the presale ends on the 25th, but thats all I can find. If the printers ship shortly after that I might pull the trigger.

[@ygk3d]

Not sure on shipping date. I think Dan is making a few revisions based on the comments of viewers here. Mine should be en route soon and the pre-order units should follow shortly thereafter. I'd estimate within 1 month they'll be shipped but can't say for certain.

[@kylebyers9824]

I've got a J1s and I've had so much trouble with it but I will say the J1's way of calibrating both nozzles is an absolute game changer! Its a real shame that this printer doesn't use a similar process

[@ygk3d]

Dan has something in mind for auto-calibration that hopefully makes its way into the final design.

[@Ettore88]

I believe this printer can fill a void in the market. The one prusa xl missed. Looking forward for an extensive review of this machine.

[@givemeanameman1]

Printer Ship date. After Feb 24th(after Chinese New Year ends) according to formbot3d.

[@m_IDEX]

I am glad to see this type of thinking regarding motion system design. About time to challenge coreXY gantry 😊 There are too many copy-paste printers out there :) Thank you for keeping it open source! I believe that there is a more efficient way to drive X axis, but this is still refreshing to see.

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

I have 2X Snapmaker J1 and a Vivedino Troodon, this is basically best of both Are they closed loop steppers ? Worst thing ever is skipping of the steppers. Really nice looking printer ! I will probably buy one if it lives up to the hype

[@SeaTaj]

I don't think many companies are using closed loop steppers on "hobby"/prosumer grade. Would be sweet tho

[@ElectricBikeLaboratory]

@@SeaTaj I would happily pay extra for that! If I knew that missed steps were a thing of the past

[@smithchannel5369]

When will we see your in-depth review of the Marathon?

[@ygk3d]

The full review will be a while yet but I'll be releasing a video today covering the unboxing and assembly.

[@dmax9324]

No chamber heater? Im curious what internal temps are sustained for a large printer with an enclosure that doesn't immediately scream out to me as really air tight.

[@travistucker7317]

45-55c most likely

[@avejst]

Wow, Great news. Looking forward to a realwold evaluation Thanks for sharing your expirence with all of us 👍 😀

[@ygk3d]

Thank you my friend. I was waiting for your comment 😄

[@emberprototypes]

This is really cool. I wonder if Dan would be interested in getting a Camera XY Calibration tool from us, or partnering up somehow during the pre-order 🤔

[@ygk3d]

Shoot me an email and let’s chat! I just bought your product on recommendation from a commenter here.

[@emberprototypes]

Oh crazy! The KZbin algorithm literally just fed me this video as well haha. I'll shoot you an email 🙂

[@yonutz333]

Wow, very promising. Cool thing is I think Mr Marinescu seems to be Romanian, as myself. The delivery price is quite big sadly. Will surely consider getting it

[@ygk3d]

Yes, he is from Romania :)

[@RathOX]

tempted as my first printer lol

[@PurchenZuPoden]

Love this 3d printer! Only the inductive probe is an issue for me. I prefer leveling methods that really measures the printsurface something like a big tree tech micro probe or similar.

[@adamborowski1412]

Why everyone thinks superpinda compensates for bed temperature? It has no idea of it. Temperature compensations is for temperature of the probe itself, not the bed.

[@NickNick2024]

This looks interesting. I'm not sure if ballscews with something like wobble-x is necessary given that a Voron Trident is able to use integrated leadscrews with a similar bed & z motion system. It will be interesting to see how the x / motion system works. Having another motor mounted up on the toolhead is definitely going to add extra weight there.

[@tabithadonley9472]

Are there any plans to look at the troodon mini? I’m trying to go through your troodon videos to get mine in a decent place but am scared I’m going to mess something up.

[@ygk3d]

Yes. I have one here in a box. Will be doing something with it soon.

[@tabithadonley9472]

@@ygk3d heck yeah, you are amazing my dude!!

[@WafflerSupreme]

The x-axis motors are relatively close to the heated bed; what if you're printing with filament with little to no cooling? How well will the motors do with the heat?

[@ygk3d]

Good question. A centimeter or so away from the bed, which is where those motors appear to sit, shouldn’t get much hotter than 50C, even with a 100C bed. I imagine the motors would get about this hot on their own just in normal operation.

[@MsJellyfan]

Searched for a new idex...because my SV04 is a B!tch...Really looking forward in 2024

[@MOVIEKICKS]

Sounds awesome, but I’ll wait for the version that auto calibrates xyz offsets. I wish him luck.

[@adysshor]

Looking forward to this one, for sure

[@mattstammler2326]

This really legit looking! I love building 3d printers and etc but this is easy a good compassion from a reliable open source printer from a well-known company like formbot. This is a very good price against the ratrig, voron and etc. I am very interested in this

[@Dalroth]

Damn this looks nice. I'm going to start shopping for a new printer early to mid 2024. I'm not sold on any AMS solutions but I would love to have an idex for supports. I'm definitely keeping an eye on this one. I wonder why there's no accelerometer on the extruders. That seems like a silly miss.

[@ygk3d]

An onboard accelerometer is nice, but not critical. Even the Prusa XL, which supposedly has them, doesn’t use them in the current implementation of their input shaping. If you’re keen to recalibrate the values just pick up the fysetc portable input shaper and plug it in.

[@sergeb7945]

@3:40 [... The print head incorporate the motor for x motion ...] The general idea for the last 5+ years was to reduce the weight / inertia of the moving parts (thus going from cartesian to corexy) in order to increase print speed and quality... Back to the Past sounds a good punchline for this one printer. Can this baby hit 88 mph? Are we gonna see some serious sh*$ ?

[@amessersmith]

Anybody able to see what the price is? Formbot3d 9s down for me right now.

[@ygk3d]

$1199 USD pre-sale price

[@bobert-d4w]

Do you know if it will be open source

[@ygk3d]

Not sure if source files are being released or not, but it uses mostly open source components.

[@Thop48]

Could you make a Troodon 2.0 mini review and klipper conversion? Plz

[@ygk3d]

It’s in the works 😄

[@Thop48]

Could I get a Sneek peak?? Is it as good as the regular troodon 2.0? Really tempted to ask one for my birthday

[@ygk3d]

@@Thop48 Mine is still in a box, but it should be identical to the regular Troodon 2.0, only smaller.

[@Thop48]

Thanks.

[@dougphillips5686]

Do these printers use a closed loop for the motors?. Are there any encoders? This seems like a real weak spot for 3d Printers.

[@ygk3d]

I believe it’s still open loop control, but a very different motion system than we’re used to seeing. The motors that control x axis motion are integrated into the print heads.

[@zachd4785]

Very good point, I used to feel the same. However, as it turns out, not only are closed loop steppers limited in their implementation, but in the scenario that a closed loop stepper would be necessary (lost steps due to a bump, for example), the print would already be ruined, if only aesthically, even after the closed loop system compensates and returns the stepper to the desired position. Anywho, hope that gives another perspective

[@ygk3d]

@@zachd4785 definitely a good point. Thanks for sharing!

[@marc_frank]

but closed loop control wouldn't need input shaping?

[@zachd4785]

@@marc_frank yes it would afaik! As input shaping works to cancel out resonant frequency's of the printer. These exist due to the nature of the construction of the machine as opposed to the individual motors themselves

[@3D_Printing]

$1,399.00 reduced from $1,199.00 pre-sale Presale - Marathon Fully Enclosed Independent Dual Extruder (IDEX) 3D Printer with Klipper Firmware

[@finnsako1]

Can you help me understand the word reduced here?

[@notanymore9471]

That’s increased not reduced

[@marc_frank]

can idex printers do two seperate and different models on each half?

[@lavafree]

No

[@ygk3d]

No. Only mirror or copy mode since the y axis is shared.

[@johnpickens448]

You certainly can. How is printing two separate objects in two colors any different from a single object with two colors?

[@MumrikDK]

​@@johnpickens448I think you missed "different models".

[@marc_frank]

@@ygk3d if one has a shorter layer time it would just have to wait until the other one is finished

[@wolfreicherter748]

availability in the UK ?

[@ygk3d]

It ships from China.

[@wolfreicherter748]

@@ygk3d yeah but where TO ? Formbot3D website only lists prices in $ and there is no FAQ, no about, no shipping info. Feels unprofessional and untrustworthy. I d ve been interested in one of the other machines for a start but I m not gonna commit to buy something just to find out where it ships to and what I can expect in tariffs and shipping costs

[@givemeanameman1]

Printer shouldn't be having the fans on the print heads... it should be using a large high static pressure fan and blow tubes, like what is now being used on the higher quality/print speed Vorons. Pros 1.Costs Less 2.Less weight on the print heads.(which in this case since you have the motors on it... may well be more then worth removing weight) 3.Fan vibration does not effect print quality. 4.Less/lower pitch fan noise that is not anywhere near as annoying. 5.Provide more air flow. 6.Closed loop filtration, filters can be added to the Intake due to use of a high static pressure fan. 7.Can be made to be extremely easy to remove, making head maintenance easier. Con You lose the ability to have the fans on each side run at different speeds, which is not really a con unless the printer head is badly designed and required it due to obstructions.

[@AndrewAHayes]

The start of the video brought back memories of my Mendel 90 (my first 3D printer at home) I have been waiting for years for a decent IDEX printer, there were quite a few of them in 2019-2020 and I thought they would catch on and the definitive IDEX machine would come about but it wasn't to be, maybe this can claim the title of the definitive IDEX printer?

[@ygk3d]

The nostalgia is real! I kind of wish I was around to see what the technology was like at that point in time. My first printer was a MK3S so I missed the hardships of the printers that came before that. IDEX still seems to have untapped potential. The Snapmaker J1 is an interesting offering, but the build volume is relatively small and the components are mostly proprietary. I think this Marathon printer has real potential to shake things up.

[@AndrewAHayes]

@@ygk3d I wasnt too keen on the Z calibration method, its an old method but is functional, the Snapmaker IDEX has made in-roads with the Z sync calibration and I would have liked to have seen something similar with the Marathon, however, designing and testing a whole new system costs money and maybe the development budget would not allow this, in order to keep development costs down and the final price also. I cant wait to see a beta of this and the release version even more so. Good luck with this project Dr Dan!

[@ygk3d]

@@AndrewAHayesDan mentioned that in a “deleted scene”. He commented on a potentially automated system for tool offsets, but wasn’t sure if it would be cost prohibitive. We’ll have to wait and see how much of a hassle the manual process is. I’ve never had an idex printer before so this will be my first time doing it.

[@neospog]

Very Very Interesting!

[@rescuemethod]

where is this printer made?

[@ygk3d]

Like most other printers, China.

[@rescuemethod]

@@ygk3d why not try something different and make it outside of China? Perhaps using some or most non-Chinese components?

[@ygk3d]

@@rescuemethod there’s a reason that China is the manufacturing capital of the world. It’s less expensive and they are also really good at what they do.

[@rescuemethod]

@ygk3d their quality is good or not so good on a case by case, factory by factory, production run by production run basis. Mostly cost driven by low cost labor and low quality components and materials. Not always but often. Many undisclosed part substitutions. Companies often don't do their own production oversight so many surprises, especially for smaller companies. Then there's political and trade risks....

[@aslanerdogan3602]

Ich hab mir eine bestellt freue mich schon sehr darauf

[@arbjful]

I think instead of using belts and Leadscrew, they should consider linear motors, these are expensive no doubt, but they are extremely fast, vibration free and maintenance free.

[@1234fishnet]

This is a marathon printer. You have everything (open source) to run this printer for a decade. Unfortunately i have no use case for this printer. The few parts that would benefit from multi material i can order from a professional manufacturer (e.g. laser sintered Nylon) and it would still be cheaper.. Anyway, amazing printer

[@s0d4c4n]

Anyone that prints with supports should consider IDEX or another multi extruder implementation, that alone is a selling point for me. Mirror mode is pretty nice too

[@klaidasrunele]

Needs an open source AMS

[@mggevaer260]

Tradrack or ERCF

[@klaidasrunele]

@@mggevaer260 Is not a fillament dry box and does not autoload fillament spools

[@mggevaer260]

@@klaidasrunele what do you mean with autoload filament spools?

[@travistucker7317]

​@@klaidasruneleput it in a box

[@klaidasrunele]

@@travistucker7317 Still not an auto-loading AMS

[@krollmond7544]

If the Prusa XL came with an enclosure, was cheaper and you could use different nozzles on each head. It would probably be the closest to perfect there is.

[@ygk3d]

If I was a faster runner, I’d beat Usain Bolt 😂 In all seriousness though, the XL 5T is a great printer. If you only needed 2 tools, I think I’d sooner get this than an XL 2T. Costs less and you have the ability to use both tools simultaneously.

[@krollmond7544]

@ygk3d I said if it was cheaper

[@ygk3d]

@@krollmond7544 you’re still limited to using one tool at a time. If there were somehow a way to use multiple tools simultaneously that would make it the ultimate printer.

[@travistucker7317]

​@ygk3d you could implement helge's ROME on each idex extruder for 4 filaments without waiting for swaps, in most cases

[@ygk3d]

@@travistucker7317 wow! Thanks for bringing my attention to this project. This looks very cool and very simple actually. Not sure how the code implementation would work to use this on an IDEX printer but the concept is really neat for a single extruder printer. I’m not sure why this hasn’t caught on more. Seems much simpler than the other solutions out there.

[@mikatakalo8376]

Looks nice, but I’d rather wait RatRig V-Core 3.1 Idex official release…which is said to be on first quarter of 2024. Formbot Vs. RatRig…

[@ygk3d]

I’m sure that will be nice too but will be a kit that you need to build. The Marathon is mostly pre-assembled.

[@mikatakalo8376]

@@ygk3d …yes, but it’s Chinese. RR is from Portugal and they have HUGE amount of nicely made clear instructions on their own website. Where is Vivedino’s website?

[@ygk3d]

@@mikatakalo8376I don’t take any more pride in supporting a Portuguese company than I do a Chinese company. Only if it were a Canadian company would that factor in to my purchasing decision, and even then, the influence would only be slight. I will usually err on the side of picking the best product for the best price, regardless of where it is manufactured. Vivedino’s website is formbot3d.com. The instructions they supply with their printers are adequate. They don’t need to be as detailed as RatRig’s because their printers are pre-built, not kits. Don’t get me wrong, I like RatRig’s products too. I have 2X V-Core 3 500. I will definitely be excited to check out their IDEX printer when it is available.

[@maggge89]

F360 for personal use license?

[@marc_frank]

looks like it

[@_xano]

maybe he designed it pro bono :D

[@TheFeist77]

so, input shaping values, not measured on the machine. NO ACCELEROMETER.

[@michaelp4057]

It looks very interesting, but I have to say that all previous printers from this company have caused a lot of problems. The T-Rex series in particular, which was advertised as a professional device, could not even be made to work with the original firmware because fundamental errors were built in and were never fixed. That's why I wouldn't trust it completely yet.

[@ygk3d]

There were definitely some significant flaws with their early printers. This is being designed by a third party, who seems to have thought of everything thoroughly, so I have confidence that this will be better than the T-Rex.

[@tangodown2721]

Sorry fully enclosed isn't good enough anymore. Active heated chambers are the future, it's the difference from a toy and a tool.

[@KaminKevCrew]

I strongly dislike the term IDEX. The thing is, they aren’t *really* independent imo. Sure, an IDEX printer can move the extruders independently on the X axis, but that is only useful if you are trying to print two of the same objects, or two objects that are mirror images of each other. I find the term misleading because the extruders are not independent on the Y axis. For the things I typically want to do with a printer, I am rarely printing multiples of the same or mirrored objects, so I find that the only benefit an IDEX printer brings (again, to me personally) is the ability to print multiple colors or materials with little to no waste, and more reliably than most AMS systems. However for that use case, I very much believe that a tool changing system is far and away the better solution. This is because a tool changing system will result in an XY gantry that weighs roughly the same, or less, than an IDEX printer - so you can run the same or better speeds and accelerations - while allowing you to have far more than just two print heads. My Jubilee for instance is designed with up to 4 toolheads in mind, but my toolhead design will accommodate 5, and I have a design in mind for 8+ tools. I think the term IDEX shouldn’t stand for “Independent Dual Extruder”, but “Independent Dual Extruder on X-axis”. There’s a project for the Voron 0 printers called “Dueling Zeroes” which is a printer with dual independent gantries, so both toolheads can move completely independently on both the X and Y axis, which I think makes a lot more sense for the “Independent Dual Extruder” monicker, as they can print completely dissimilar parts simultaneously. Yes, they would be limited in their ability to print objects with very different layer areas, as the Z axis wouldn’t be able to move up and down for each toolhead, but it’s a far better solution imo, when it comes to printing multiple objects simultaneously. Plus realistically, a dual gantry isn’t really more complicated mechanically, as you still need the second set of belts and motors to control an IDEX printer vs a dual gantry machine. It’s just that the software needs to be a little more aware to make sure that the gantries are aware of each other’s positions and don’t collide.

[@ygk3d]

Great point. Definitely a bit of a misnomer.

[@mkhmkh1266]

Seriously?

[@KaminKevCrew]

@@mkhmkh1266 "seriously?" To what part? That I strongly dislike the term IDEX? Absolutely, as outlined by my reasoning above.

[@mkhmkh1266]

A pointless semantic argument that qualifies as mental masturbation in public. You contributed zero to the pool of knowledge and understanding. Maybe you should invent something yourself and then you can name it.@@KaminKevCrew

[@voland696]

You absolutely can print 2 colors or 2 materials with this schematics, just very slow. Just park one head and print with another one and swap them when you need to swap materials. Seems like you have no idea about how it works (but a lot of words).

[@jakeharms1386]

This looks fantastic

[@thorntontarr2894]

The discussion lacks much detail about volumetric flow rate aside the E3 hot end with an AliExpress page. Any fast printer based on print speed misunderstands this essential point: if the hot end can't melt the filament, who cares about linear speed or input shaping. Perhaps future info release will address this point.

[@ygk3d]

I imagine it's in the product details for the hotend. I didn't think to ask that.

[@docigo]

Hello friends. Unfortunately I couldn't find the author's email. I wanted to criticize constructively. I'll have to come here. I really hope that the author will contact me. What is actually new in this printer, not new, but revolutionary? The printer is a new generation and looks completely different. Most of the shortcomings have not been resolved. Even what is new is not used. I also wrote to all companies and major players. As was said, no one answers. We have reached such nonsense prusa delta. Even now I have remodeled my prusa, which is many times superior to bamboo. For color printing. It is also possible to increase the speed of model creation, but there are some difficulties with extruders

[@voland696]

It’s bs. I built the printer based on this “unique” x motion kinematics like 2 tears ago and it’s just does not work well. There is a reason why people are trying to reduce weight of the moving parts. Here instead of having one X belt and one X motor for each extruder they integrated x motors in to extruder block. And not just made it heavy but also used relatively weak nema14 motors. So each nema14 now has to pull an extruder and itself. So it will work, but it’s going to be or very very slow or it will produce shitty quality prints. I was trying to integrate closed loop drivers to those X motors but it does not make much difference. So conclusion - forget about it.

[@thegamerstableboardgamesto386]

I'll keep my Bambu Labs.

[@BigSteelThrill]

11.5 isn't large. Its nice.

[@FoxHoundUnit89]

>affordable >$1k 😂😂😂😂😂

[@shaquedelilicss7849]

Looks like ratrig..

[@KanielD]

Every detail except an accelerometer & better probe

[@ygk3d]

Super PINDA seems like a good option to me. What would you consider a better option? Nozzle probe?

[@travistucker7317]

​@@ygk3dbeacon

[@ArcAiN6]

**sigh** Here we go again.... When the vast majority of printers on the market around around $200 - $400, saying a $1200 is affordable is not only woefully out of touch with reality, but blatantly absurd. Saying these "open source" is being thrown around here, but the design files are nowhere to be found. Just because you USE open source components, and software in your design, does NOT make it "open source", unless you release the source design files for the device. Literally nothing about this printer is unique, or novel. There's ZERO creativity here. Nothing new for the exception of the price, and the marketing wank.

[@travistucker7317]

With bambu eviscerating the market, it's disingenuous to say that most people want $200 printers. If dude posts the cad model he showed in the video, i think it's open source. You could send the model for the frame to cncshitfast and they'll make one for you. Maybe it's not groundbreaking, but it's a new combination of the 3 or 4 things it is, regardless of price. It really sounds like you just want to be mad. Enders are $100 now. Be happy

[@ygk3d]

Affordability is relative. A $10,000 car is affordable because it’s less than the comparable offerings. You can’t just compare a feature rich printer to a budget one. Can you get a good printer for less? Of course. Can you get a printer with a similar feature set for less? No. In fact, the only comparable printer is the Snapmaker J1 which is the same price for a smaller build volume. So by comparison, the Marathon is more affordable. I’m not meaning to imply everyone will be able to afford it. Another way to phrase it is it is a “good value”. I’m not saying the project is open source, although the source files may be released at some point, I’m not sure. The point is that it uses non-proprietary components. And there are parts of it that are open source, like the firmware. You say there’s nothing new and novel about this printer. The one thing that is would be the motion system. The motors that control x axis motion are integrated into the print heads. I’m not aware of this having been done before elsewhere. Otherwise, you’re right, it’s mainly a repackaging of pre-existing ideas. But there’s nothing wrong with that. Nobody else has combined these components in the same way before, while also offering it at a competitive price.

[@ygk3d]

@@travistucker7317 👏👏👏

[@mkhmkh1266]

Open source means it never becomes a true brick. Klipper is open source. The MCU can in theory be replaced, the belts and steppers can be replaced, the hotends can be replaced…. This machine checks a lot of boxes. If you want true unique, get a Snapmaker, closed ecosystem. I-fast, not so fast but pretty unique. BTW opening a post with a sigh is kinda beta male.

[@maiorciprian]

​@@ygk3dI believe Stratasys uses x stepper mounted on the toolhead.

[@jc84com]

Looks interesting. keen to see more how 'open' 'source' this printer turns out to be. At 95% pre assembled. Sure is easier to step into than a parts kit printer. interesting how close the motors are to the bed.

[@frixon999]

i dont like this nema 14 motors adding extra weight to printing head no point better to be fixed on X axis and with good mechanics you wont even notice extra 350g both with pulley from botors but on head to be driving extra 350g its gonna give troubles when printing 300mms+ my opinion