The Pinan Heian Kata are NOT Children’s Kata!

www.iainabernethy.co.uk/ In this video I explain why the name, history and nature of the Pinan / Heian kata clearly show they are a holistic physical self-protection system, NOT children’s kata! I hope you enjoy it!
“When you understand the five [Pinan / Heian kata] you can be confident of your ability to defend yourself in most situations. The meaning of the name should be understood in that regard.” - Gichin Funakoshi, Karate-Do Kyohan.
All the best,
Iain
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[@priusblackheart6772]

I am a Karateka and I cross-trained in Muay thai for more than 2 years. There was a situation back then where I was trapped in a clinch and that Kata saved me during that sparring session

[@LuisRodriguezIdeanologies]

I've been practicing Wado Ryu for decades and my sensei always told us that the whole combat system were in the Pinan Katas, but it is the first time that someone has have explained to me why. Thank you very much for such comprehensive explanation!

[@manhnguyen5]

Learn to pronounce “Pinan” correctly, not Pee Nan; only way to understand Pinan’s meaning is to start pronouncing correctly, then you will understand its meaning. Pronouncing “John” as “Jane” is not going to cut it……

[@Kyle-vb3fz]

@@manhnguyen5 one of my good friends is a black belt instructor in Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan. He knows the same Pinan forms we teach, although slightly different, and they call them Pyong Ahn. Sometimes things are taken from other styles or slightly altered based upon the pronunciation dialect and languages of other countries. His style may not call it Pinan. Our style calls them Heian Kata

[@manhnguyen5]

@@Kyle-vb3fz Yes, ChungDoKwan or others branch of Taekwondo have roots in Japan. Koreans martial artists move to Japan to learn then bring the arts back to Korea….. Pyong Ahn is the Korean ways of writing and romanize the pronunciation of Pinan….. I am Vietnamese and pronounce Pinan very close to the Okinawan’s pronouncistion. Vietnam is far from Okinawa but the Vietnamese pronunciation is same as Okinawa’s Pinan. If you claim to study Okinawan Pinan and pronounced as Pee Nan, then you are not learning from the true instructors….. John is not Jane…. The real pronunciation of Pinan is easy to pronounce but Pee Nan does not come close to it….. Pyong Ahn pronounce by a Korean will sound very close to Pinan pronounce by an Okinawan….. The Japanese change Pinan to Heian …. Even Heian’s meaning is a bit different meaning from Pinan’s ……. You can change the name, movements but don’t claims them to be Pinan….. The vibrational sounds of Pinan pronounce it correctly will resonate in your Pinan movements and enhance your understanding of Pinan…… Don’t butcher Pinan as Pee Nan anymore……

[@Kyle-vb3fz]

@@manhnguyen5As a Nidan and Instructor in Shotokan Karate and Kenpojutsu, I will continue to say “Heian,” the way I was always taught by my instructor, who is Japanese, to say it.

[@manhnguyen5]

@@Kyle-vb3fz More power to you, as I said, you can call, change the names etcs…. But don’t claim what you are learning are from Pinan Okinawan’s …. John is not the same as Jane…..

[@bigsidable]

I’ve been doing Shotokan since 1984. 2nd Dan. I practice three time a week. And I do one Kata for the whole month. All the way to Gangaku. I had knee operation in 2020. 3 month later I’m doing Heian Shodan. And just did a Kata a month till Kangku Dai. Really spent two month on Tekki Sandan. Needed to work on lower body being weak from injured knee. Two years later. Feeling very strong and powerful. After two years of doing a Kata a month. But breaking down Bunkai at the same time. And using weapons with the Kata. Plus weights. Shotokan For Life. You need the basics to move to the more eclectic advance Katas.

[@Motivation_King115]

Hey Iain my names Asher I’m somewhat of a new follower I discovered you from Jesse Enkamp and some of his videos. I’m 14 years old but I don’t really have a dojo. There isn’t much karate here in Minnesota sadly so I have to learn it from people like you and Jesse from your videos. I just can’t thank you enough your sight on bunkai is amazing. I started off watching videos of Sensei Higaonna from the Goju ryu style which I still consider my main style that I try to learn, but I do take influence from all styles. Thank you for your amazing videos. 😁

[@robocoastie]

TKD is everywhere though even the smallest towns have a TKD teacher. But Japanese, Okinawa karate your right is rare in the midwest

[@theflamingone8729]

Good luck, when, after 10 years, I came back to training, I didn't have a dojo from the style I started with, so I trained in a different style while I tried to recover my knowledge from KZbin, IT WAS HARD. It's a long distance, cross country marathon. Persevere, be flexible (mentally) and train what you can, where and when you can. Karate has so much more to offer than just fighting, you can do it when you're as fit as a buck rat, you can do it when you're knackered old hack,and everywhere in between. Enjoy your journey. Osu. (There are no knackered old hacks, just an ugly figure of speach).

[@Burvedys]

Considering, that teenager is quite a modern social invention, these kata were not children but young adults, starting from 13 years old when boys and girls were starting their apprenticeship at some trade. Then all compulsory education was extended from primary/elementary to grammar/secondary schools. But in Lord Nelson's time 13-year-old midshipmen may lead grown adults to the battle, so nobody was wondering why that poor boy couldn't handle a big cutlass and got just a dirk. And English were no exception these times. Now we see a lot of kids around 30 years old. :)

[@stephena1196]

50 years ago, when starting Secondary School, in the woodwork and metalwork classes we got to use very sharp tools, lathes, pillar drills, forges and brazing torches from the age of 11.

[@Burvedys]

@@stephena1196 : I have graduated in 1988 and we were still allowed to use such tools (even required) and I was using them in my grandad's workshop which was fine with him. More over, his son was also a carpenter so he taught me how to sharpen a pencil with and axe (even when I was a boy who needed both hands for this axe). We are lost generation because neither we speak foreign languages (like me - four), nor we know how to use computers (learned myself). Oh, and I have military service in two opposing armies, too, while modern armies have to lower fitness standards so they are able to recruit soldiers. Everybody needs to learn pinans at school! 😂

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It depsides on your definition of “children”, but those learning these katas via the school system were obviously still in school. UK law / UN definitions has those under 18 as children, so that’s what I was running with as. It works well too in this case as most mistakenly think of these kata as “children’s kata” … and if I said, “not teenager’s kata” then people could wrongly think I was saying they were for very young children!

[@theflamingone8729]

M​any Style Manuals define boys and girls as people under 25.

[@patrickschreiber5758]

Thank u 🤗 I wished I found a Club teaching your way. After 40 years of Judo and Ju Jutsu I started Shotokan and loved the Katas. But when it came to Bunkai (also the meaning of Hikite) I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. However saying something as a beginner in my opinion would have been disrespectful. So sadly I quit after one and a half year.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

There are plenty of good clubs out there. If you let me know where in the world you are based, there’s a chance I know someone?

[@shoummodipto1406]

helped me alot, as a shito ryu brown belt,(soon to be blackbelt), my dojo hasnt put much emphasis on bunkai, this has helped a lot thank you, oss.

[@lars309]

The History I was taught, Itosu created the Pinan's from the kata Kūsankū in order to teach children Kūsankū .

[@simonrcarson]

Always interesting. You’ve put so much thought and research into this, not just the history, but the applications of the Heian kata. A really important contribution to the effectiveness and authenticity of real, practical karate.

[@nathanbateman4255]

The group I train with primarily bases our practice on the Heian kata, Tekki kata, and their Bunkai. I’ve found so much depth in these that I’m nervous that my head will explode once I reach the black belt level kata

[@diegot.guimaraesyaqubabdal4622]

Hello, Sensei Iain. 5th kyu Shotokan karateka here, from Brazil. Thank you very much for your content and knowledge. Karate katas are way more than just "choreographies for passing the exam" as most of the people here sometimes think. Bunkai and proper philosophical and technical understanding of katas are necessary for a complete understanding of the art, and you do it here. Keep the good work always up! Thanks again. Osu!

[@MrEcomusic]

Greats summary, as always. Thanks Iain

[@NYKgjl10]

Excellent history lesson Iain. Been doing Kyokushin Karate for well over a decade now and these katas from Pinan 1-5 are so deep and rich of information, not just history, but in self protection applications from chokes, close quarter combat and the list goes on. Best video thus far on the meaning of the Pinan/Heian kata series history. Thank you very much for dedicating your time and effort on this valuable video lesson for all of us Iain. Have a safe holiday season for you and your family

[@armorkinger]

So interesting when you dive into it. Thanks for sharing 👍

[@rchlumsk]

Great insight, putting all of that together this makes a ton of sense. Lots to think about and revisit in these katas. Thank you Sensei!

[@mhutters]

Great seminar on this subject today, loved it and it was a huge eye opener for me. Thanks Iain

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I'm really pleased you enjoyed it!

[@kennethyoung2700]

Great insight Iain. Being a shotokan practitioner I had always looked at the progression of the kata based on either the introduction of a new stance or more complex technique. For example heian shodan asks the student to only move the same arm and leg then in Nedan asks them to move opposite arm and leg and introducing a more complex combative approach. Great video.

[@robertboer3026]

Thanks once more. Sound reasoning and very informative. Liked it

[@YoukaiSlayer12]

Fine video & exceptionally made point as usual.

[@timsmith5335]

ShudoKan practitioner for 35 years. Hearing this from someone else reaffirms what we have been teaching for decades.

[@JimGallant]

This was a really cool video. Now I understand a little better the reason for Pinan/Heian now. Thank you for sharing this

[@juhaandersson6975]

An excellent analysis once again! I've sometimes wondered myself why Pinan Nidan and Shodan starts with a very difficult stance (mahanmi no nekoashi) if they are supposed to be practised first. The very first movements of Pinan 3 - 5 are "easier" to execute but this makes a lot of sense. Respect!

[@terrysanders2817]

Ian, Thank you for posting this! Have sent it to several distant students. Terry.

[@NMIBUBBLE]

My thing when i was teaching is to bring the bunkai to life, because during my training we didn't get to see anything until we're BB. After receiving my BB 3yr's later i was able to teach and show how the bunkai was included in our forms I would show different techniques everyday for a month, then go back to our modern way of teach, to olympic style training in the late 2000. I always liked to mix it up in the dojang. I remember my first year in training while learning that TKD was forms/History from Shotokan, Then i started to look at everything in my research while reaching my first BB. I did that for 20 plus years my last two were getting into MMA training Muay Thai boxing and BJJ with the Graices. Early 90's thru late 2000. Such wonderful memories teaching kids as young as 2yrs old to 60 years old I'm still learning too. Knowledge is power. I like that we have the interest these days there is' so much information out there. Always learning something new everyday. :)

[@Priestbokmei1]

Great video, Sensei!

[@RossSeymour]

Nice. Very well done video.

[@HwaRang1970]

Thank you , Sensei. I very much enjoyed this video. I studied the Chang Hun forms of Taekwondo for decades and didn't really understand them until the studied the Heian Kata from which they were derived. Much respect to you! 🙏🙏🙏

[@sorasky9553]

Very compelling thesis, Sensei

[@nurbaiti_hikaru]

Love this video. I practice Kushin Ryu and when my Sensei explained me about Pinan Kata Bunkai, clearly that's the combat system, not only for child, but also for adult.

[@BillyP2565]

I agree with your thinking here. Additionally, I find them excellent for training "basics" solo. I learned them in mirror image and practice both sides regularly. When I train all 5 on both sides in one session its a great workout and Ive covered most of the basic techniques and stances. All in all they are a brilliant and versital training tool!

[@patrikmarcalik8080]

Dear Sensei Abernethy, thank you very much for sharing of your knowledge. Very interesting video, can't agree more with you. Thank you very much🙏🏻

[@ruiseartalcorn]

This is great! Many thanks :)

[@MarshOakDojoTimPruitt]

thanks Iain !!!

[@edelcorrallira]

It's great to see this retrospective; I bought the amazing break down videos, but if songs are living documents, I believe we can take Katas as such, in that the research itself is quite alive. I imagine if those videos were done today there could be some adjustments, and there would be other if done in a couple of years (or perhaps months).

[@thegrumpygeordie9007]

I've just seen you're in Yorkshire next month mate. I might go down to the seminar though fair warning I've not actually done karate for 20 years.

[@niledunn4641]

Thank you ian for this video and the explanation. My father is a wado ryu practitioner himself and he says something similar, how people think that they were designed for kids is beyond me and this they need to see to wake them up

[@Jonstrug1]

Yes! Excellent dissection. The heian/pinan are all I do and they’re filled with great self defense/fighting techniques.

[@AkademiaFudoshin]

I'm truly agree. We are only practice bunkai for Heian and Tekki during our classes. I think that is too many kata to practice in Shotokan. What's is your thoughts about this? How many kata and bunkai for this kata are you doing in your Dojo?

[@karatearmchairhistorian9825]

Good stuff. I especially like how you explained the Channan/Pinan mystery. I though about it along the same lines: assuming that neither man was lying, from the Motobu / Itosu conversation we can deduct that there was indeed a kata named Channan that was then changed and split into parts by Itosu. One thing that we do not have in this conversation is the confirmation that it was Itosu who was the actual creator of Channan. But we can assume with some degree of certainty that he was, for as you pointed out there are no mentions of Channan in any historical sources prior to Motobu stating that he seen it performed by either Itosu or his students in the past and being surprised that it was now called Pinan.

[@Rob-lw1uw]

I have also heard that KuSanKu was used in the development. I am sorry but I can not recall where I heard this, but it was an Okinawan history talk.

[@leetshots]

i always got the feeling they were designed to teach the basic skill of moving off the line of attack and keeping your weight centred while moving. the potential for striking and chucking flows from that.

[@RavenburnX]

I am green belt wado Ryu and find this and all your other videos fascinating, I must also say that physically I find Shodan the more difficult of the three, but you are correct in that there is more to these in terms of their application Simply excellent 👏🏻

[@Kyle-vb3fz]

In our style, the Heian kata were the forms required for shodan, first degree black belt. We didn’t start learning other katas until that point. Of course we also learned out kihon(basics) and kumite with that as well. I started as a 13 year old. Very interesting video.

[@georgedavidson5789]

I have began to understand the pinan katas (and all the katas of Wado) now that I am studying Jung Ki Kwan Hapkido, the joint locks, throws, and grappling in the katas become clear as I grow in JKK Hapkido, so I very much agree with what Mr Abernethy is saying, and it tells me I am on the right path!

[@stanclark3992]

Hi practical bunkai. Pinan / Heian Ordering. Like one of your posters... I practice the Korean version of these... and I agree with Shotokan that the Heian Shodan version should come first. As to why Sandan is third... I think the answer is found not by looking at 'technique' or 'physicality' necessarily as you do... but at the skills developed by the katas. The rationale is that traditional karate (all styles) develops body, mind, spirit, and the culturing & strengthening of these human abilities into capabilities is what makes karate strong martial arts and is the source of it's power. And of course there is a technical side... but that is the secondary goal... and the techniques specific to kata represent not technique first... but principles... technical & tactical principles... which then can be drawn up, adapted as need be, and applied properly to maximum martial effect. Hope that makes sense. 👀CHEERS.

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

Nice. Thanks.

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

I most appreciated the part where you taught the purpose of the Kata. I think that's always missing in martial art lessons. We practice forms without knowing what they're trying to teach. That's like learning a college module without knowing the learning objectives of the module.

[@christophmau440]

Is there a clear summary out there telling me what technique in the kata is meant to be for/against what? I'm really struggling with getting little chunks of information here and there...

[@amk8411]

Could you recommend a Karate club in London, please? Most places I've found seem to be kids classes.

[@koso.research16]

very interesting information and love your british accent..

[@DanielArthur_profile]

I love the ending of Pinan 3 and 5! Very brutal bunkai application

[@PiollaPUGNAX]

Spot on!

[@joumasepoes88]

Abernathy Sensei. Thank you for making these informative and well researched videos. Arigatogozaimashita. Robert Baker, Shidoin, Matsubayashi Ryu Karate Tenyokan Association

[@antoinecarter536]

I will say learning all 5 and doing them made me feel real confident

[@STARSafetyProject]

I began serious martial arts training in 1986 and still have difficulty in doing my horse riding stance correctly (as I was taught and as I teach)

[@theflamingone8729]

Last two to three movements of pinan 3 are - takedown, control/set up, change sides to finish head arm strangle. ?

[@martialartnerd1396]

I like your work and videos, and I hope to meet you one day. Nevertheless, I ask me if you don't see more on those katas that what there is really inside, and if you don't put inside your personal (but very very good !) interpretation, more advanced as it was designed for by Itosu. That's said, I agree with you, this is not just beginner or children katas, and we can learn a lot of them, in term of practical applications. I made two 2 hours lesson (4 h!) a couple of weeks ago on heian shoran (pinan nidan). My students were all black belts range 1-3 dan. I show them a lot of applications with hand grips, and throws. It was a good tool two train and discuss and improve throws. And at the end I said : so, Heian Shodan, beginner's Kata ?

[@noiseworks]

I've been fascinated/obsessed with Pinan for my whole adult life, I find them to be quite profound.

[@blockmasterscott]

I never heard them called that. I did know that they were broken down from a single kata.

[@Korroth]

Much respect Sir. A question or two: I thought that Funakoshi learned Pinan from Mabuni, that he was already on the mainland when the Pinan were popularized. Also, I agree with the previous poster, “children” meant “students” - not 6 year olds, but teenagers. Thank you Sir.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

As discussed in the video, the Pinan kata, in their various guises has been around for quite some time (Motobu quote discussed, etc) prior to the introduction to schools. My understanding is Funakoshi conferred with Mabuni to see the latest versions / what had changed. I guess your definition of “children” plays apart, but I would class teenagers as children (in line with UK law and UN definitions). I certainly never referred to 6-year-olds in the video.

[@bevinmodrak4997]

I like you're thinking on this. And again, context is everything. I've often thought that the plan was to train these school children, and then upon adulthood you give them the bunkai and then you have almost instant soldiers.... So that means at some point, someone other than Itosu had the "official" bunkai. The question then becomes where did it go and can it be found again.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I don’t think anyone was intending for them to use the karate in war. Japan was trying to rapidly modernise its army at the time, so fit recruits were valued, but hand to hand combat skills and the use of old-school weaponry was not. Therefore, the martial artists of the time focussed on producing fit recruits because the functional application was not as valued. You can see this in the letter Itosu wrote: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/10-precepts-anko-itosu

[@Charlie-te2tt]

Control of limbs, and the options that gives you - I genuinely think you are responsible for getting that missing and fundamental element back into karate. I always come back to Sandan and Hangetsu.

[@robocoastie]

From what I’ve gathered from sources the old very long added to over time Kata were broken up and redesigned for teaching children. But that doesn’t mean it’s combat in it. They are not exclusive

[@sramdeojohn4428]

🙌👏🙌❤️✌️ Finally someone is bold to say the truth. In okainwa karate, the same basic blocks/strikes are meant to 'broke the bone' when executed, that is why the karateka trains vigorously. Its not kid stuff.... 😔👏🙌👏✌️✌️✌️

[@lawrencecron672]

Yeah like condensing the Daito Ryu principles into the 9 techniques of Aikido or breaking down Classical Chinese 108 forms that walk the Hung symbol I shape. Breaking down 108 Taichi or Wing Chun original or even Shaolin 108 form into combos or small sets for easy mastership of the forms speciality technique. You could even have the feet of Pinan godan and hand techniques from any of the longer kata or vice versa. It’s a moot point. Yeah I think Channan was an early version of Kihon Roppo , Happo, and 9 form Kihon inspired from classical Yawara to be honest and smartly condensed and concealed at the same time, depends on level and outlook, it’s pretty amazing to be honest. Each form is like a complete style within a style, they are also interchangeable according to the situation.

[@maximyakushin9]

I've heard that Ping An was the name of Kobudo master, from whom Itosu Anko learned these katas. Have you ever tried to master Pinan Shodan with a Bo? I'm sure that original names of these katas were Pinan no kon, Pinan no tonfa, Pinan no tanto, etc... It's usual for Kobudo to call katas after the creator. What do you think?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It makes little sense to me to practise weapons kata without a weapon. We have the karate kata for the empty hand stuff, and the Kobudo kata for the weapons.

[@ascaniosobrero]

It make sense that the five Heian (I am a shotokan practitioner) derive from a single main kata or system. For practical purposes segmented in multiple chunks. The three Tekki derived from a single kata as well, as we know. What I agree most, however, is the need of base their teaching on the bunkai. Otherwise you see beginners making nonsense movements because they do not see any meaning in the kata techniques.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I have heard it frequently claimed that the three Naihanchi were originally one kata, but I don’t think that’s historically solid. There are sources which point to Itosu being the creator of Nidan and Sandan, with what is now called Shodan being the older form.

[@ascaniosobrero]

@@practicalkatabunkai 👍 I trust your historical knowledge on this, albeit it made sense

[@kevinfreestone9822]

As part of the meiji restoration, jutsu was replaced with do, in order to seem more peaceful. Kendo, aikido, judo. Karate do.

[@kevinfreestone9822]

Hi Ian, I'm sorry if I came across as rude. Please let me explain myself. I started karate in 1979. Got my shodan in 1985 and won the British open junior kata title in 86. I then went on to win loads of competitions I.e. the FIKO tolitle in 96, etc. I fell out of love with competition karate in 2000 and started training in small circle ju jutsu under leaon jay. In 2003 moved to Australia to train under Patrick McCarthy at the koryu uchinadi honbu dojo. I have spent dozens of hours listening to Patrick's lectures (I first sent him a thesis of mine in 1988). I don't have enough time and space here to go into the full conversation, but please note that I am a great fan of yours and I have followed your stuff for years. Please forgive me if I sounded rude.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Not at all! I was simply interested in why you thought that about Funakoshi. I also understands that time is limited. Thanks for the kind words and comment.

[@3Pillers]

👍 excellent

[@RRTNZ]

Goju Ryu has been the focus of my Karate for a while - but I've learned the naihanchi and pinan kata along the way, I'm not great at them. To me, the pinan kata seem to contain a bunch of grappling and judo-like throws ( tai otoshi in pinan 5, seio nage in pinan 3, collar chokes and a hip throw or osoto gari in pinan 1, ) but I'm sure there's lots of other techniques in there.

[@Burvedys]

Goju-ryu is more grappling system then striking but these fellows from Shorin-ryu like Iain always arguing about that! 😂

[@RRTNZ]

@@Burvedys interesting. Guess the Goju Ryu I've been doing for the past 30 years ( and I've done both Japanese and Okinawan) is a bit different than what you've been doing, because striking is the primary focus, with grappling an add-on.

[@Burvedys]

@@RRTNZ : meh, what do I really know being only a forth generation in Goju-ryu (Jundokan lineage). :)

[@RRTNZ]

@@Burvedys Lineage is a lot less important than what you're actually doing. What do you know ? What's your primary response to an attacker ? Do you resort to punching or kicking someone first or do you try and throw them to the ground and finish them with a hold or submission - because that's grappling ? I'm not there in your club so I don’t know what you're doing, so best of luck with it.

[@Burvedys]

@@RRTNZ : it depends on the attacker, his attack and other legal circumstances. What do kata teach and which? Have you seen any of kata that starts with a strike? :)

[@bobg5362]

Interesting. I've always assumed that so many Pinan techniques appearing in Bassadai, Jintae and Kong Sang Koon were evidence that the higher forms had evolved from the Pinans. However it may indeed make more sense that the techniques were taken from the higher forms and the Pinans created to emphasize and/or teach those techniques earlier in training.

[@STARSafetyProject]

The second Pinan is simpler than the first, but has something the first does not; the horse riding stance. When I teach Okinawan kata the stance is "Naihanchi dachi". When I teach Shaolin the stance is lower and wider and is called "chi ma bu" This stance is extremely hard to do correctly. I believe this is why the Pinan kata are in the order they are in now.

[@makenjikarate]

Fantastic video, I did genuinely believe that the heian katas were simplified for children from the pinan katas. Would be much less confusing if they did the Goju route and called the katas "rip and tear", effectively naming them after Doom Eternal soundtracks 😂😂😂

[@kcsuresnes5793]

Thanks for the interesting video! Could you provide your sources about the fact that they were not created for children? The fact that they were also taught to adults does not mean the first intention was not children. Alternatively, they could also have been created with both children and adult beginners in mind, so it would be "not only".

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I think that’s covered in the video. Motobu’s early learning, Funakoshi’s quote about them being for self-defence, the name, the kata structure, etc. I think all the evidence points to them being created as combative kata (aimed at adults) which were later used for the teaching of children. I can’t see how katas created for children could then be “weaponised” for the adults, and besides the timeline is all wrong for that. This article may also help: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/there-nothing-peaceful-about-pinans

[@kcsuresnes5793]

@@practicalkatabunkai thanks for your answer, I wanted to know if there were texts literally stating it, but I understand it's a deduction you made from multiple elements. I think it's possible to have a form made simpler to learn while still having a lot of meaning to unveil in later comprehension stages. This is the idea of tales and fables in literature, for example. If your goal is to prepare children to become karatekas when they grow up, I think it would make sense to create simpler forms while "hiding" a more complex meaning that can be taught as they grow up. It's possible your thesis is correct, but I think it could more nuanced.

[@dwgould2001]

@@practicalkatabunkai Was it not Itosu that changed the kata and removed all the dangerous techniques? I seem to recall he removed the blatent open handed techniques in patsai Dai and Sho, Kanku etc and replaced them with ude uke. I always wondered why? i originally put it down to Itosu had a reputation for being a strong heavy puncher and he favoured punching over open handed techniques. Years later as an adult it made perfect sense to me as you really can't have kids throwing open handed techniques at each over. I no longer practice Karate, but for what it's worth i came to the conclusion that Heian, Pinan katas were an advanced forms, showing either a better way or a simpler way to perform techniques from the other major katas. I stil marvel, when the penny finally droped on the shoulder throw into the cross armed choke from Heian Godan. I come to the conclusion over the years that all you need is the pinan, naihanchi and bassai katas, there's some nice goju katas as well worth looking at. Execellent video btw.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@kcsuresnes5793 Apologies if I’ve been unclear. What I was meaning to say that the texts that support this position are mentioned in the video (Funakoshi’s quote, Motobu’s interview, etc). I am confident that the Pinan Series is, as Funakoshi told us, is a holistic self-protection system. The adults and then later the children were taught the same kata, what differs is the supporting approach as opposed to any change in the kata. As discussed in the video, I think it very likely that the name was chosen specifically to reflect this. There’s plenty of nuance there, but I think the evidence we have strongly supports the position that the Pinan kata are practical forms that were taught to children (as well as to adults). That very different from them being inherently “children’s kata”.

[@michaeltaylor8501]

Hmm... 🤔 Funakoshi didn't fair well when he took on Motobu (who focused on practical fighting applications & only one kata: Naihanchi). So much for Funakoshi's faith in his practicing many katas - including those 5 Pinan/Heian Katas, eh? 🙄

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Funakoshi was an older and smaller man, and there’s no shame in losing to Motobu! Motobu also studied the “proto-pinans” under Itosu too of course.

[@michaeltaylor8501]

@@practicalkatabunkai , While yet a new student of an art one is exposed to much, but once exposed the smart student then pares down & focuses on very few things in order to gain the deeper understanding & development which leads to mastery. If one has neither a decent strategy nor the tactics to overcome - or at least inflict some damage upon - a larger, stronger, younger man sans any element of surprize on anyone's part, then one is either too ill to fight or one is not truly a master (in the sense of being able to use skills appropriate to a given situation). Many elder martial-art practitioners - including many instructors - are called 'masters' yet they seem to lack the ability to adapt to certain situations. The swordsman named Musashi may have been a scoundrel, but he showed mastery in his ability to adapt to any situation at hand; but what about Funakoshi who said that his hand is his sword? Without being there to witness & merely from hearing the report of the contest between Funakoshi & Motobu, it appears that Funakoshi tried the same thing 3 times & failed each time (a sign of not adapting: isn't this also the layman's definition of insanity - to repeat an action over & over expecting a different result?). Funakoshi was in a contest, not a friendly training session - so what was he thinking?* 🤔 And Motobu seems to have wisely repeated his successful tactic against Funakoshi each time. It appears to me that Motobu clearly had mastery of his chosen technique. This reminds me of a Filipino martial-art demo that I heard about from multiple sources some decades ago where Master Sam Tendencia - likely in his 60's at the time - used only one technique during the demo over & over again upon each 'master' of the other Arnis/Escrima/Whatever schools: & he was successful each time. Strangely, none of the other 'masters' adapted to this one technique. Methinks that Musashi would have adapted had he been alive & present. Methinks that the word, Master is over-used & often inappropriately applied. Master doesn't imply infallability, but it does imply adaptability & other smart usage of skills. * = I'm no master; & I proved this during an attack out 'on the street' (actually out on a sidewalk): I decided on the spur of the moment to neither do the most obvious, vicious move that would've helped to end the fight quickly, or to use a well-tested & effective deflection, but rather to experiment with another deflection technique that I had had no pressure-test experience with (it looked cool & I wanted to try it): fortunately I also simultaneously applied a couple of other - previously pressure-tested - concepts that each helped to save my butt when the experiment proved to be a failure. The lesson I learned is folk shouldn't experiment 'outside of the lab' so-to-speak: they should keep the experimentation for the classroom environment (unless they're out of other options, of course) - & that I should stick to what I know & know I can pull off (because I'm no longer fit to pressure test any 'new' techniques due to doctor's orders upon getting some hardware put in my neck: it's why I poorly chose to experiment in a self-defense situation in the first place). I doubt that Funskoshi would even try experimenting over & over again with some new, untested technique during a contest where his school's honor was at stake; so, did following the rules of the contest negate his ability to adapt - without breaking the rules, that is? If so, then master or not, he was in the wrong contest.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@michaeltaylor8501 YOU WROTE: “it appears that Funakoshi tried the same thing 3 times & failed each time (a sign of not adapting)”. It was Motobu who did the same thing successfully three times: “When I first came to Tokyo, there was another Okinawan [Funakoshi] who was teaching Karate there quite actively. When in Okinawa I hadn’t even heard of his name! Upon guidance of another Okinawan, I went to the place he was teaching youngsters, where he was running his mouth, bragging. Upon seeing this, I took up a position of kake-kumite and said, ‘what will you do?', He was hesitant and I thought to punch him would be too much, so I threw him with kote-gaeshi at which time he fell to the ground with a large thud. He got up, his face red and said ‘once more.’ And again I threw him with kote-gaeshi. He did not relent and asked for another bout, so he was thrown the same way for a third time.” This is Motobu’s version of the event. He was bigger and younger, and definitely more skilled. I think it would be fair to say that Funakoshi was not the most skilled karateka of that generation, but we all - whatever style - own him a dept of gratitude because without him karate would not have been able to survive and then flourish. Funakoshi was the one who adapted karate to fit with the times, and all others then followed his lead.

[@michaeltaylor8501]

@@practicalkatabunkai , True, Funakoshi's work did lead to widespread interest in an art form dubbed 'Karate' by the Japanese, but I've got mixed feelings about this situation due to the changes made to the Okinawan self-defense arts by some instructors of that era - including Funakoshi: watering-down/changing forms/instruction to meet the needs of large groups of school children made a different art in the likeness of the originals; so, it wasn't really the true self-defense arts that were widely exposed, but rather some warped version of such arts (& folk like Motobu recognized this fact). These changes plus the popularity of Sport Karate has seemingly led to the near extinction - if not the total extinction by now - of the old-school Okinawan self-defense arts. Because of this, many karateka know very little about how to defend themselves with the Karate movements that they've learned. Example: Look at the modern Kata Bassai Dai where both hands form a circle: outward from a high position to inward low. This is a change. Some Chinese forms have the proper motion (the differences between one Chinese form & another Chinese form being how the hands are held: palms striking, or various fisted strikes: minor differences; & some end with slightly different angles: again, minor differences): as the hands begin to circle low they also come forward in Chinese forms - & this is what's now missing from Bassai Dai (a major difference) because this kata was watered down for use by school children - as this motion targets the areas around the lower-ribs: at organs that could be seriously damaged (likewise there was also an obvious neck-break movement that was removed while a less obvious neck-break movement was retained - probably because the more subtle neck-break motion could be explained away as having different functions whereas the former neck-break motion was too obvious to explain away: the school kids would take notice). This modern - century-old - 'Karate' isn't really a true representation of the old-school Okinawan self-defense oriented art forms that were once taught only privately or semi-privately to responsible individuals.

[@ewancampbell3972]

Lightbulb moment, concerning the order of the kata! I think it would be fair to now re-name them as "The Heiain Kata."

[@bobafatt2155]

Thousands of Little Samurai at the local Mcdojos say otherwise

[@Priestbokmei1]

These 5 forms should be sufficient to earn the black belt.

[@vonclap]

Started in early 1960s I never heard that the Pinans were for children that's recent...sure my sensei of the time never thought they were

[@Priestbokmei1]

I think it is the Hakka Ryu Jujutsu people learn these 5 forms in their system.

[@Priestbokmei1]

Calling them children kata was probably a way to disguise their real nature after WW2? I’m a Goju Ryu practioner, but if I had the time, I would DEFINITELY try and “master” these 5 kata; they are really great kata! After learning these kata I think a person is well equipped to defend his/herself!

[@alexblue6991]

It's a shame most karate clubs never learn how to adapt karate into self defence

[@coltonowens2742]

I've never heard these were created for kids. That seems a bit ridiculous. My instructor was born and raised in Okinawa, and trained under the found of matsubayashi shorin ryu. He explains they are more "physical education" in context, but certainly not just intended for children.

[@blacktigermartialarts7329]

Interesting analysis but I'm still not convinced. Yes I agree that Modern Karate owes its existence to these Kata but I think that once one has learnt the 'Senior' kata then one should discard them.

[@stanclark3992]

HIgh Black Tiger. What does the senior kata teach differently? That you would want to discard the Pinan (Heian)?😒

[@Haloh2]

Indeed I agree the were defanged to teach Japanese school children!

[@hi-q2261]

If you take this dance and put a BO in your hands this makes a lot more sense 🤨 I personally think that Kata is KOBUDO without the weapons

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It really doesn’t! Best to train weapons actually holding the weapon.

[@hi-q2261]

@@practicalkatabunkai yep but correct me if I'm wrong back in the day mainland Japan conquered Okinawa and outlawed weapons, so like in Brazil they came up with capoeira to disguise it. I am thinking in Okinawa they still practiced the forms it's just over time like everything else in Asia became tradition 🙄 Gedan Burai makes more sense with Tonfa 🤨

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@hi-q2261 YOU WROTE: “but correct me if I'm wrong back in the day mainland Japan conquered Okinawa and outlawed weapons” Overall, they essentially outlawed firearms and stockpiled the weapons. There was no universal ban on all weaponry. One of those historical misunderstandings that is rife in the karate world. A good breakdown of the history can be found here: ryukyu-bugei.com/?p=7281

[@hi-q2261]

@@practicalkatabunkai Foundational Theory of Karate 🤨 best way to describe Kata "Theory" 😆

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@hi-q2261 Having asked to be corrected, and having been corrected, I take it you now accept that the weapons kata (Kobudo) exist because there was no weapons ban that prevented them? Therefore, to do a weapons kata with no weapons would be non-sensical?

[@MasterPoucksBestMan]

If "peace" and "mind" are used to translate, it should be "Peace OF Mind" rather than "PeaceFUL Mind".

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I don’t think either really works because there is there is nothing in the name that can be read as “mind”. You either have “peace and tranquillity” (Japanese reading) or “safe from harm” (Chinese reading). The addition of “mind” would seem to come from Funakoshi’s statement, “Once you understand these five kata, you can be confident of your ability to defend yourself in most situations. The meaning of the name should be understood in that regard.” Totally makes sense if you read the characters the Chinese way i.e. “You can defend yourself, so you are safe from harm.” However, read the Japanese way it does not work so well, so people add in “mind” i.e. “You can defend yourself so you have a peaceful and tranquil mind”. No such linguistic gymnastics are needed when we know the kanji have alternate readings between languages. Funakoshi is simply telling us to read the characters the Chinese way and not the Japanese way … which you’d expect seeing as Itosu made the Pinans and consistently wrote “karate” as “Chinese hand”.

[@MasterPoucksBestMan]

Definitely. I just mean from the standpoint of a translator as to why the incorrect meaning might have gotten passed around. My degree is in Spanish and when translating there is always a choice made between exactness of word and exactness of intent of the communication. Normally it's not a problem...until it comes to idiomatic expressions. In that case, exactness of word usually misses the translation mark. Often then, a translator will choose the most appropriate idiomatic expression in the target language that has the same meaning as the idiomatic expression in the original language, so that the intent of the original author of using an idiomatic expression is maintained but the meaning is also transmitted. When a non-native speaker of the target language tries this, they sometimes fail due to getting the idiomatic expression wrong, so I can see an Okinawan who learned English trying to tell a native English speaker what Pinan or Heian means, knowing that they heard an English expression that has the same meaning (peace of mind), and then getting it wrong (peaceful mind) and the English speaker running with it if they didn't have Funakoshi's translated biography.

[@MasterPoucksBestMan]

I've seen some really funny attempts at "raining cats and dogs", for example lol

[@firebellyK]

The ancient masters were genius. We see it across cultures in Asian and European martial arts. Battle field tested techniques were preserved and cataloged and at the same time hidden from those outside of the family or inner circle. In my personal experience, after decades of traditional martial arts training and practicing dozens of kata, I was given ridiculous applications of the movements by my teachers. I believe they weren’t being disingenuous they themselves didn’t know the true applications. After working in a career that required real empty hand skills, suddenly the true meaning of movements in the kata became crystal clear. I saw how effective these traditional forms really are. Just one example, the classic high block is almost impossible to use in a real fight, but becomes extremely effective when used as a strike with the forearm to the opponents throat. The people who discard kata as worthless are missing a gold mine. Thanks for the video. Very insightful!

[@stanclark3992]

Hi FirebellyK. High Block Doesn't Work-Yes It Does. Watched your friendly sparring vid... skills show through by both participants. Your position about the 'high block' as being almost impossible to use in real fight... it's a common belief and ... is utterly inaccurate. The correct statement would be that the kihon high block In Japanese karate or Tang Soo Do version only real karate is it is done through traditional karate skills. Most karate practitioners do not understand what that means... let alone how to properly train so. So, inescapably... the high block is not going to work. That's the first cause of why it fails in actual application. The second, is not applying it competently. All techniques of any kind... require the practitioner to use it where it makes sense... application effectiveness wise. The vast majority of the complaints about traditional karate practice... stem from these two sources... especially the 1st. Concluding that the kihon karate form is as a matter of course ineffective... however popularized by the general practitioner or author here... is FALSE. Kihon karate blocks can be strikes that is true (and is often the Okinawan 'flavor'); nonetheless, kihon karate blocks are BLOCKS. The training challenge of traditional karate (traditionally martial arts as a whole) isn't to fault the masters, or someone's interpretation... that's easy to do. It's to realize the wisdom of the Master's and glean the value in their teachings. 😊CHEERS.

[@firebellyK]

@@stanclark3992 thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective on it🙂

[@stanclark3992]

@@firebellyK Part A. Hi firebellyK. Well, you certainly went through the Historic Korean version of TSD training... indigenous variety. The head master @ my dojang org. hailed from Korea and represented the same kind of toughness physically. Not my style... and of course the physical intensity of the training has lessened over time. Japanese mainland often the same dynamic. Anyho,,, your skills shine through,,, as did the Goju opponent. 😁Cheers.

[@firebellyK]

@@stanclark3992 thanks for the kind comments. That video was taken way back in 1988 when I was a youngster and a pretty new black belt😊 unfortunately we all get old and I’m an old man now. My personal martial arts journey and career needs took me through a lot of different systems but my traditional Tang Soo Do training in Korea was always my most enjoyable time. I read all of your comments and completely agree with everything you said. I have always believed that the traditional arts are a treasure and are truly deadly if properly used and understood. Thanks for sharing the video link also. It’s always good to connect with others who share a passion for the traditional arts. Stay safe

[@kevinfreestone9822]

It sounds like funakoshi was talking a load of rubbish. The 5 pinan were created by anko itosu as an aid memior for his favorite techniques. When he was forced to teach all school children in Okinawa he changed the way in which kata was taught into a calisthenic. Funakoshi had to further change karate (Chinese hand) due to the edicts from the daily nippon butokukai. I could go into this further, but it would be a one hour.lecrure

[@kevinfreestone9822]

Dai nippon butokukai

[@practicalkatabunkai]

YOU WROTE: “It sounds like funakoshi was talking a load of rubbish” Why do you think that? The above post does not explain why you feel Funakoshi’s statement on the Pinan / Heian kata is “rubbish”. For other readers, the statement referenced in the video was: “When you learn these five kata, you can be confident of your ability to defend yourself in most situations. The meaning of the name should be understood in that regard.” YOU WROTE: “The 5 pinan were created by anko itosu as an aid memior for his favorite techniques.” Itosu never wrote why he made the kata, but they clearly seem to draw upon older kata such as Kushanku, Passai, Chinto, etc. I therefore think it is fair of you to state they are a record of his favourite methods from the other kata he had been exposed to. I would add that they also seem to be a logical blending of the methods in a structured way. None of that would infer his student Funakoshi was talking “rubbish”. YOU WROTE: “When he was forced to teach all school children in Okinawa he changed the way in which kata was taught into a calisthenic.” That’s also true. The Meiji Restoration saw a chain of events that saw martial arts being adapted in to “modern budo” in order to improve the health of practitioners. In significant part, this was to help ensure fit and healthy recruits for the Japanese military and mandatory national service. The Pinan kata were not created for this purpose as we know that that they had been around (in various incarnations) prior to Itosu seeking to teach karate to youngsters in 1908. He also taught them to adult practitioners, and we can see their commonality with many older kata as previously mentioned. I’d probably disagree with the word “forced” as it was something Itosu campaigned for and wanted to do. It’s also clear that he wanted to see two types of karate i.e. one for helping promote health in the youth and one for use in self-defence (see his 1908 letter). I totally agree the way the kata was taught changed for the former. However, the Pinan kata would still be a record of self-defence techniques (a restructuring of methods from older kata) and the name can be understood that way i.e. a Chinese reading of “Pinan” (平安) would be, “Safety” (as can be easily confirmed using any online translator). There is the Japanese reading of the same characters as, “Peace”. Funakoshi telling us the kata’s name should be understood in relation to their self-defence use would seem to be an attempt to clarify any potential confusion around the two readings i.e. read it as “safety” not “peace”. Seems we agree on quite a bit, but I do feel Funakoshi was correct in his statement and therefore I am interested as you why you feel it is “rubbish”? All the best, Iain

[@kevinfreestone9822]

Hi Ian, I'm sorry if I seemed riude, I didn't mean to be. I've read yor

[@donsimons9810]

I wouldn’t put so many ads in if you wanna grow your channel.. 2 cents 4u

[@practicalkatabunkai]

KZbin automatically adds them, and I do need to recoup something for the time it takes to make the videos (I get a few dollars for each video). I’m not really bothered about the size of the channel. What matters to me is that the people who do watch find them interesting. Some of the stuff I would need to do to make the videos more popular isn’t that palatable to me, so they are what they are. Not for everyone, but for those of a similar mind to myself.

[@wtkc-karatekickboxingteam1947]

WHO SAID THAT ANY OF THESE KATAS ARE KIDS. YOU ARE JUST IMAGINING THIS BY YOUR OWN. EVERY SINGLE KATA EVEN KIHON KATA HAVE VERY DANGROUS TACHNIQUES.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Loads of people. I don’t agree with them, but the notion the Pinans are “Children’s Kata” is widespread.