The Poor Man's Milling Machine (AKA - The Roller Filing Rest).

[@brucewilliams6292]

Always enjoy hearing about the ingenuity that people have to come up with solutions to problems that don't require a whole new machine.

[@Preso58]

I was a member of a model engineering club many years ago and they had boxes of really old British Model Engineering magazines. They allowed members to take whole volumes home to read. They were a treasure trove of really clever and interesting tools and techniques. This would have been back in the days before you could just jump online to buy just about anything you wanted. It was also the period when there were material shortages after WWII. I guess it was all about making what you needed from low cost materials back then. Regards, Mark

[@Tomthumb222]

I’ve used a very similar device for the last 30 years of my working life, but it is just a pair of case hardened rollers mounted to a cast bracket which I used to fit into the vice. This adaptation is a brilliant idea which will greatly ease many filing tasks. Great video as always, thanks Mark.

[@Preso58]

Thanks. There seems to be many variations of the same working principle. It really depends on how your lathe is set up. You can get more adjustment if you can fit it directly to the cross slide. I guess you could adapt it to suit other methods of holding the workpiece. Regards, Mark

[@Radiotexas]

It never ceases to amaze me just how much time we spend making jigs, fixtures and tools to accomplish our machining work. Very nice, mate! Thanks!

[@Preso58]

But it's oh so satisfying when a project comes together. Regards, Mark

[@JamesLaChapelle-n3k]

I'm a Certified Master Clockmaker, in the trade for 45+yrs. I acquired a used factory made filing rest for a WW watchmakers lathe when I was a young man, I've used it frequently over the years. It is mounted on the lathe bed on a shoe much like you described. However, I occasionally have larger workpieces that I run on an old 1928 Hardinge Cataract 5C. The filing rest you are showing would be ideal for that use. I can't believe in all these years it didn't occur to me to make one, I have been using a small mill with round stock in V-blocks. A pain in the butt, I'd much rather use a filing rest. Thanks for the inspiration. Great Video.

[@Preso58]

Yes, they are might handy for small stock. I made mine many years ago and it was sitting in the bottom of a drawer looking sad and rusty. I cleaned it in evaporust and parkerised all the steel parts and it looked so nice that I thought it would make a good video. I think I made it when I had to put some square ends on some small diameter drill rod but when I finally got my own milling machine you sort of forget that there are simpler and safer ways of shaping small stock. Regards, Mark

[@glennfelpel9785]

Don't ever say that you are the farthest thing from an idiot, for sure. Not many people are as creative and resourceful as you are. Thank you for this video it is very helpful.

[@gaborbata8588]

The eccentric application for this is a clever idea, thank you for that.

[@thehobbymachinistnz]

Thanks for the shout out Mark. The roller filing rest is a great idea. It is something that I had not thought of, but it would be useful for small diameter parts that (as you say) could get bent in the mill. The indexing plate looks good. Yes, you can make others with different numbers of holes for specific jobs. Ironically I'm currently working on an indexing plate for my next video. It is for the wood lathe for when I'm using the router jig to cut flutes in turned items. I foolishly put my name down to run a 'tools' demo at the woodturners club in April.

[@Preso58]

I've never understood why lathe manufacturers don't add some sort of direct indexing device as standard, especially on metal lathes. My Hyco woodlathe has indexing holes in the pulley and a plunger for locking the spindle. I think all the Woodfast lathes we had at school had direct indexing built in as well. Regards, Mark

[@greg4367]

Greetings from San Francisco. I learn something every time I watch you. Thank you for the education and the entertainment.

[@Preso58]

You're welcome and thanks for watching. Regards, Mark

[@numnumsbirdie]

Nice use of practical design. Thanks for sharing this useful tool with demonstrations and explanations. Mini mill and lathe here, Thank you Mark from Canada.

[@Preso58]

Glad it was helpful! Regards, Mark

[@joewhitney4097]

Morning Mark, this was a very interesting video. Enjoyed seeing how it works and the different uses for it. Thanks for sharing.

[@normcameron2316]

Love it. Every time I have a seemingly complex problem I look to the past for a simple way out. Thank you for presenting this one.

[@Preso58]

There are so many useful tools from "yesteryear". The really old Model Engineer magazines were a treasure trove for that sort of thing. Regards, Mark

[@occasionalmachinist]

And award winning too. Well done Mark

[@Clickspring]

Nice one mate, beautifully explained as always :)

[@Preso58]

Thanks Chris. I'm guessing you would be quite familiar with a roller filing rest. I saw some lovely examples on some horology websites. Regards, Mark

[@haroldpeperkamp2030]

About 40 years ago,😮, my shop teacher told us to chalk the file with a schoolboard chalk stick. I think its not what you want to powder your lathe with but it works for keeping your file clean. Not so much for aluminium though…

[@billdoodson4232]

Yes, it'd be 56 years since I was taught in Metalwork classes in secondary school to use chalk on the file to prevent clogging, although we used French chalk. It makes quite a difference, hav8ng a proper file card to brush the file also helps.

[@Preso58]

We were also taught that when I was at school. I am not sure it really worked well though. Regards, Mark

[@Oldtanktapper]

Yep, I’ve tried it for jewellery making, working mostly with sterling silver. It kind of works, but I generally don’t bother with it.

[@lv_woodturner3899]

A very useful addition to the shop. I may have to make one. Thanks for sharing. Dave.

[@AllenGentz]

Thanks Mark yet another great project.

[@Vickwick58]

It's so refreshing to hear someone pronounce the word "height" correctly. I know it's a piddling little thing, but here in America all the KZbin machinists pronounce that word as "Heighth" (as in width and length). It's maddening. I asked Keith Rucker why he does that and he said because width and length are pronounced that way, so I responded by asking why they don't say how much the weighth of something was but he never responded. Yes, I know it's stupid, it's just one of those things that sets me off.

[@Preso58]

Ahhh, yes.... American English. So many fun examples to be found. 😁 Regards, Mark

[@MaxGiganteum]

With all the "slanglish" we have here in the US, you're worried about THAT word? E-gads! My real response is, to understand why there is an ever-escalating number of words being incorrectly spoken or otherwise mispronounced, all one has to do is to look at public education. Of the growing smaller by the year number of students that graduate, an even smaller number of them can actually read & write at the 12th grade level at which I graduated many decades ago. In other words, each graduating class contains an escalating number of idiots that cannot actually speak proper English. Welcome to public education and the unions the teachers belong to in the 21st century. It's time to abolish all public education and go all private. It's the only way to negate the unions and get back to actual education. The bonus? It would undoubtedly be less of a burden on the taxpayers! Best wishes! - Max Giganteum

[@mrc1539]

Very nice, it’s nice to see that something so simple can be so accurate . Thanks for posting . 😊 !

[@Preso58]

Even I was surprised at how close the two measurements across the flats were. Regards, Mark

[@MrsRabbit8]

Awesome, thank you! Can you do a video on making a jig to attach small aluminum discs to so as to create sprockets? Have a great week!

[@Preso58]

I am guessing you could make some rudimentary gears but it would require special file profiles if you wanted to hand file the teeth. There are specialised motorised shafts that can be used in conjunction with involute gear cutters but they are more for clock makers and watch makers. Take a look at the work that Clickspring does on that topic. www.youtube.com/@Clickspring/videos Regards, Mark

[@MrsRabbit8]

@@Preso58 thank you, much appreciated, I'll check that out.

[@iTeerRex]

Run the lathe and can also do circular grinding.

[@Preso58]

Yes, I forgot to mention that. Regards, Mark

[@gaborbata8588]

I know you watch Tom Lipton, I remember him showing a simple file-rest for controlling the angle, but this one controls the depth, too. And I've certainly never seen one with rollers. I was planning to make something like this, a jig maybe, for a small diamond file to touch up tools. I guess one could use some commercial rollers for this, even plastics would do, since repeatability is not required.

[@Preso58]

I am thinking you could make interchangeable rollers for holding round files or triangular files too. Regards, Mark

[@kenhelix4494]

Great video, you give me the impetus finish adapting mine to fit directly onto the lathe bed of my toolmaker's lathe

[@Preso58]

It is a fairly niche device but for certain parts it's almost a "get out of jail for free". Regards, Mark

[@rjordans]

Good reminder to give this project a bump on the list. Still need to make one for my lathe but other things keep getting in between. For the division i do have a setup using the change gears of my lathe, it has a bit of play but seems accurate enough for what I've done with it so far

[@Preso58]

There was a very good example of an indexing attachment described in the Model Engineer magazine that used the backgear bull wheel on Myford type lathes for indexing. The indexing plunger could fit between the teeth or if turned 90 degrees it could fit over the crest of the tooth, doubling the number of divisions available. I seem to recall they suggested wrapping a rope or strap around the chuck and then attaching a weight or a spring to keep the spindle backlash from allowing any movement. Regards, Mark

[@rjordans]

@@Preso58 that sounds similar to my setup though I didn't fix the backlash problem yet. The weight sounds like a great plan. Thanks for the tip!

[@jeffschroeder4805]

It isn't difficult to think of many applications that would benefit from the "precision" filing capability possible with this set up.

[@Preso58]

Yes. I believe watchmakers use a similar tool. The size can be scaled quite easily to suit really small lathes. Regards, Mark

[@trajtemberg]

Really useful for making square tapers.

[@Rustinox]

That sure is a clever idea. I've never seen that before. Even if hand filing is primitive :)

[@Preso58]

Certainly primitive but I remember when I started my teacher training we had to hand file two pieces of 3mm thick cold rolled steel plate cut to a sort of lightning bolt shape on the joint line. They had to form a sqaure when put together and you had to place them on a light table to see the gap between the parts. I found it fascinating to be able to make a precision fit with nothing more than a hand file. However, that was back in the days when my eyes still worked properly! Regards, Mark

[@robertfontaine3650]

sweet. simple tool. remarkable results.

[@624Dudley]

One of those clever tools I wish I’d thought of. 👍

[@camillosteuss]

Damn, that is a brilliant little device... Not sure as to how much use I would have from one, but it is going on the projects list... Generally, i prefer the surface grinder or a tool&cutter grinder with small V blocks or large V blocks, depending on the diameter, but for putting in a flat onto a rod, well, it doesn`t get much simpler than just lining up the V blocks up to the magnet`s fence, clamping the rod and letting the stone wheel just do it`s magic... T&c.g. is a bit different with setup, given the lack of magnets and a different machine geometry(at least in my case - deckel s1), but then again, the cutter grinder is designed to grind any number of ridiculous parts, so affixing a rod and putting a flat onto the surface is not really some high science... Regarding this device, i think that bronze bushes would be the best, that or carbide bushes and glass hard hssco pins, as this simply doesn`t have the stroke to utilize anti-friction-moving-element bearings to their full extent, rather, any such bearing on this would likely see premature wear, as the bearings wear the most when they move from a dead stop, and rolling a file by hand is gonna give the bearings nothing but a whole lot of stop-and-go sequences... A bronze bush or a hard bush like mentioned will tolerate such mode of operation with much more appreciation over a more complex bearing... I guess a yellow bronze like brittle alu-copper bronze alloys with higher alu content would also grant some good bushings for this, they can be made in the home shop with a bit of copper and alu, whereas carbide bushings are a terror both price-wise and machining-wise... I guess that a camshaft could also grant some hard iron bushings for this usecase, tho, sourcing those can be troublesome if you don`t have a friendly scrapyard owner as a friend... Very nice project and definitely a great intermission in the steamer sequence... Glad to have seen it! All the best and kind regards! Steuss P.s. regarding that spindle indexer, i`ve been thinking of a similar design for quite a while now... Definitely on the list as well...

[@Preso58]

I made this tool when I didn't have a lot of workshop resources. Certainly, way before I owned a D Bit grinder and a milling machine. Yes, a surface grinder would be ideal for some operations that you can carry out on a roller filing rest but I'm not there yet. I guess it's one of those tools that can be as complex as you want it to be but I am still surprised at how accurate it can be and the surface finish that it can make is superb. Regards, Mark

[@camillosteuss]

​@@Preso58 Hah, funny, i find it hard to think of you not having a lathe and a mill... Tho, it is kinda visible in the tool, there is just some slight patina that always develops on metal that had not been painted over, even with oxide finishes, they mature nicely, lose the crisp appearance and just look more natural to the eye... Speaking of the tool, I fully agree with file cuts being able to result in some ridiculous finishes, i had similar experience with my own lathe file and parts on a lathe... The crosscut bastard file is a material remover, and a brilliant one at that... I cut some damn large chamfers for thread starting with such files on higher speed on my lathes and damn do they brutalize the metal beneath them, but a lathe file can finish such cuts and make them look almost like hardturned cbn finishes of cnc lathes, near mirror grade finishes, which is astounding, yet quite sensible, as a good file is in essence akin to a shear cutter on a shaper... Yeah, the accuracy of the roller rest is quite amazing, i guess that it could go even higher with some more refinements like the aforementioned hard bushings and glass hard pins that are on a near hydraulic fit, especially if they are supplied with small cups of oil to ensure perfect operational conditions... Sure, a t&c.g. and a s.g. are the queens of quick and efficient setups, but as you said, one has to own such machines beforehand... Speaking of which, i greatly enjoyed your dbit grinder series! Best regards!

[@walterretlaw4051]

👍Muchas gracias...saludos desde Argentina.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Clever indexing. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@johnboom6777]

If you have a dividing head you could bypass the lathe altogether, mounting the file jig onto any common surface to the head.

[@johnboom6777]

Btw from Boom Engineering .

[@Preso58]

Thanks Harold. The mark II version of the spindle indexer is much nicer to use. Regards, Mark

[@neil1150]

Thanks, I've never seen one set up or used 👍

[@killerkane1957]

There is always a way. Thank you!

[@maxheadroom1506]

lathes come with milling attachment that fits on compound.

[@Preso58]

That is true but they can lack rigidity. This accessory can be made mostly with hand tools and just a handful of components turned on the lathe. Regards, Mark

[@MyMiniHomeWorkshop]

Interesting concept, it would have come in handy when I only had the lathe and I was building the mill. 👍

[@DudleyToolwright]

Quite original. Love it.

[@philleitzell2809]

It's hard to believe you can maintain any sort of precision with using something as basic as a file and this set up.

[@Preso58]

The key, I believe is that the tool pressure reduces to almost zero as the last cuts are made. So, there is no deflection of the workpiece and the position of the file is absolute as long as there is no clearance in the rollers or the guide pins. Regards, Mark

[@RustyInventions-wz6ir]

Very interesting handy tool. Thanks for sharing it.

[@wrongtown]

Nice one mate! Thanks for sharing!

[@nilegod1]

i use a similar tool in my lathe to put flats and dovetails on gun parts

[@bigchrisrogers]

Brilliant idea. Thanks.

[@outsidescrewball]

Enjoyed…thanks for sharing

[@FrankenShop]

Simple design but very useful tool. I would imagine the body of the tool could also be created from a milled block of aluminum or even from a casting -- rather than being made from steel.

[@Preso58]

A casting would be great. There's not a lot of load on any of the parts so it could be made with some nice elegant curves. Regards, Mark

[@Marlpat70]

Thanks Mark! Almost every machinist on KZbin uses a mill. As I don't own one it is great to see how far one can get with just a lathe. More videos in this category would be highly appreciated! Did you also make a device for milling slots using the lathe?

[@Preso58]

I do have a fixture that can hold a two speed electric drill. It can be aligned parallel to the spindle or perpendicular to it but it's not exactly a precision spindle. I have used it to cut slots in plastics and wood but it's a bit sketchy on metal. It is good for cross drilling in the lathe though. Regards, Mark

[@argee55]

Thank you for another informative video.

[@TheIronHeadRat]

Thanks for sharing 👍

[@HandsOfManos]

Has anyone made the file guide in the link? I’d really like to see a build video of this.

[@trollforge]

I definitely need one of these!

[@mickgyver1068]

A really cool Tool!

[@robertpeters9438]

A mount for a dremel might be handy for less precision.

[@Preso58]

I have a cast aluminium mount that fits in my compound slide for a small Makita router motor. It is useful as a substitute for a tool post grinding attachment. It will take mounted grinding points and milling cutters and the spindle bearings are rigid enough for good precision. I find that the modern variants of the Dremel have pretty "flexible" bearings with lots of end float but for small jobs in aluminium and plastics they do the job. Regards, Mark

[@ptonpc]

People usually don't realise that to make a part, you need to make a part to make a jig, to make a tool etc.

[@CSGATI]

I call a poor mans milling machine a FILE

[@t0mn8r35]

Very interesting.

[@Michaelfatman-xo7gv]

This rocks.

[@JamesSnetselaar]

Works for inside splines I'll bet

[@scottcates]

Brilliant

[@mrwest5552]

i'm a poor man, and the best man ! (1952)

[@jackdawg4579]

so how do you stop the lathe turning as you push on the material with the file?

[@Preso58]

The indexing attachment prevents the spindle from moving. However if you just want to cut a flat and you don't have an indexing attachment, put the lathe spindle in low gear and hang a weight off the chuck key. (make sure the lathe is not plugged in). Regards, Mark

[@blfstk1]

Good Show Mate: As per normal. What a cool "thingee". I got to be first again. That's pretty cool also.

[@garagemonkeysan]

Great video. Super tool. Mahalo for sharing! : )

[@andrewsmith8388]

Looking at those plans, why the 1/4 40ME thread, as a metric world fellow, those are expensive for single use. Is there an alternative?

[@screwcutter1]

You should be able to pick up a 1/4x40ME tap and die set in carbon steel for very little to be honest and it would be fine but I would think any thread would do though obviously a finer thread would be better for fine adjustment .

[@andrewsmith8388]

​@@screwcutter1Is a 1/4 40 me same as 1/4 40 wf?

[@rjordans]

I'd probably take a standard M6 thread, with 1mm pitch it gives you a nice gradation to figure out how much you moved vertically with one turn of the wheel

[@jimgreen4504]

Is the use of oil while filing an option?

[@Preso58]

I don't use oil. The chips will fall away from the rollers if cutting is done dry. Regards, Mark

[@alanremington8500]

I like it !!

[@wernerpfeifer]

Grandios!!!

[@rkalle66]

Btw. it copies more the moving of a scraper than it does a milling machine.

[@Preso58]

My reference to the milling machine was more to do with the ability to cut flat surfaces but you are correct since a milling cutter would use a rotary cutting action. However, the shaper and the planer are also single point cutters that move in a linear pattern. A file is sort of like a multi tooth shaper! Regards, Mark

[@rkalle66]

@@Preso58 As a hobbyist I only once had to grind some workpiece flat and perpendicular to a certain degree of precision. I built a jig out of wood to clamp and slide it in a controlled manner on a flat board where some sand paper was glued on. I did not find resources how Carl Edvard Johansson modified his sewing machine into a precision grinding machine for his first prototype gauge blocks.

[@lorddiablo8575]

Could you please tell .... Where can we buy this Roller Filing Rest ? Thanks !

[@Preso58]

I am not sure if they are really a commercial item. Hemmingway kits in the UK do sell a kit of parts www.hemingwaykits.com/precision-filing-rest Maybe you could find a used one on a Horology forum? Most units have to be modified to suit the style of lathe that you have. Regards, Mark

[@pilbomags488]

2 tons of machine set up just to grind a few microns of metal?

[@Preso58]

I am thinking you have missed the point of the video. It was intended to show a viable alternative for making flats and simple polygon shapes on parts using just a lathe. Some model engineers and would be clock makers may only have a small mini lathe at their disposal (not a 2 ton machine). I made that attachment when I only had access to a small bench top lathe and although it's simple it works very well.

[@columjevens4612]

Great tool , thanks

[@shirothehero0609]

That screeching sound was like nails on a chalkboard! Eek.

[@Preso58]

Yes, sorry about that. The safe edge of the file will rub on the vertical face which causes the noise. If you reduce the stickout of the stock the noise mostly goes away. Regards, Mark

[@albertmagician8613]

It is feasible to 3D print the disks with the holes.

[@Preso58]

Absolutely. I would be wanting to ream them to be a close fit on the plunger pin though. Regards, Mark

[@Warped65er]

👍

[@guloguloguy]

THIS IS A NICE TOOLING DEVICE, BUT, I'LL BET IT COULD BE DONE WITHOOUT THE "ROLLERS".... USING A HARD PLASTIC BLOCK, INSTEAD.

[@Preso58]

Absolutely. A hard nylon block would work well and I have seen a similar concept used by Joe Pie. It depends on how often you would want to use it. Regards, Mark

[@johnjewell219]

👍👏😎🇦🇺🐈‍⬛

[@jdmccorful]

A very cool idea! Thanks!!

[@lohikarhu734]

I was just about to comment/question about adjustments,🫡