The present state of Skullgirls... (RANT)

[@kilobyted]

Fully agree with you. I read about the changes and literally thought "oh okay" and that's it. Then I went to Reddit and holy hell was that a dumpster fire. To be completely honest, if I would have never read about the changes, I probably would not have noticed anything had been removed from the game. I've said this before, but if something I enjoy makes anyone else feel uncomfortable or offended, then I'm totally fine with minor, aesthetic changes to help it appeal to a wider audience.

[@infamousisaac9954]

A well spoken video, I didn't know about this situation but I can say I agree with your sentiment🙏

[@lordgrim-qf4hk]

About the filia scene is that it sets the mode About the mafia as they are willing to harass people in public without any consequences it shows how awful they are so it comes as a shock when you find that filia is part of the family but if played the mobile game you will find out that her father left the family and that guy ithink was sent to kill her and her father

[@jorges.1120]

The thing about Parasoul is that her armband isn't even a part of her base color! It was only visible on some of the alternate colors, so yeah, I don't get why people would be mad about the removal if it's barely present in actual gameplay. I know the Black Egrets on some of her moves do have 'em, but even then, I'm not focusing on them, I'm focusing on Parasoul, because she's the character I'm playing as. The Black Egrets could have the ugliest color palette ever and I would not give a shit if Parasoul is the same. Also yeah, please leave a positive review, shit's getting review bombed to hell. Left a positive review with my 50 hour playtime 'cuz it's a hella fun game and it's sad to see it sitting at a Mostly Negative rating for something so harmless.

[@AzazelTBD]

Yeah, but the issue isn't with just it being on her character. It's that she is a military leader character running a powerful army using the armbands as a way to identify themselves. The imagery in general can be seen as a bit rough, especially because Parasoul isn't shown in the light of a villain.

[@jorges.1120]

@@AzazelTBD Oh yeah, I agree, I was just pointing out that the armband wasn't a key part of her design, even before the update.

[@Gloomistic]

Update: Just watched Rev Says Desu's recent cover of the situation, post DM leaks with Atrox making the dirty sock comparison and all that. Apparently Atrox posted a steam review where a guy had 0.3 hours and was against a few of the changes. Atrox conveniently cropped out the second paragraph where the guy had already stated he's purchased SG on multiple platforms such as myself, and just got it on steam to support them, order to crap on his hours. Someone found the review, replied to them with it, and Atrox immediately privated his twitter. lol The NSFW changes are whatever, although I wouldn't like them tweaking characters like Valentine in the future? I think the win pose for example with the thermometer is clever, and if anything, the game should've just said mature with the kind of themes it had. I think it embracing it's NSFW side was fun, they just needed to fix Fillia or up the age cause weird. More importantly though, I do think with what happened in terms of the kickstarter VO/Packs, that's kinda an ignorant response. I understand the leaks weren't mean to be out there, but weird to flex publicly after, crop a review like that, then bail. Smh JUST MAKE A TOGGLE SO WE CAN ALL HOLD HANDS.

[@Gloomistic]

Apparently another reason he privated is because right after the DM leaks were discovered, Atrox was retweeting fanservice furry art. lol someone could use the tangent "it's not in skullgirls at least". But when you're badmouthing and comparing things to a "dirty sock" you've removed, yet you know damn well how furry stuff is perceived, it's hypocritial. I'm not even someone who minds furries and they can do their own thing, but it is blatant projection.

[@octaviusthe2nd672]

I don't think having a sexual theme is wrong, its just an element of the SG art style (except the Filia part, that has gone too far) but I can understand why they would remove it because at tge end of the day SG is not an art project, its business and having adult themes in your game is bad for business. I don't think they needed to censor black egrets because they are supposed to be nazis and it's not like the game is portraying them as the good guys.

[@Gloomistic]

Interesting take. Honestly I agree for most of your points! My take on a few of the themes are: Big Band - I completely agree. Any cop, regardless of race, who rats on bad cops, is going to be punished. His illustration was an obvious robocop reference done a decade ago. If you know this was your intent, what are you to feel guilty about? A good way to put this into perspective is to imagine if they add that asian character (forgot her name, and maybe she gets hit by a white guy in the story. Should the art be removed in two years because violence against asian sees an increase? Where's the line? To me, they need developers that believe in their thematic, or nothing stays consistent. Fundraiser/VO Pack - This one is horrendous to me, and your point about Big Band's is a great one. I've got another example. There's a game I plan to Kickstart called Carnival Hunt (pretty lit, all the characters are wooden, mechanical dolls). The game should be about $25, and it has early beta access this fall should you back it. Let's say I'm fine waiting until 2024 to play it official launch Day, but it has a 45 tier with a neat rabbit skin, and this is what pushes me to buying it early. You're telling me they can steal my skin from me years later, and I'm suppose to accept it? They could've just wrote anything in that spot then and took it away. I'd argue that's even illegal? I think anyone who's fine with this, is not only a dimwit, but a pushover. That just opens a whole pandoras box for devs to just lie and take things away. And, even if you take away the skin, if the description specified it was say a pirate skin, but you don't give me that, it's still bait? How do you know I'd like it? Umbrella arm-band - Completely understand the argument. I do see media as a form of art, so while I don't think we should just go in and censor every material that features said group as enemies, if a product can smoothly adjust it's design, that is obviously much more sensical to do. My issue for this, as well as the censorship point I am about to address, is that the changes look tacky/band-aid fixes. I'd like it more if they at least came up with another way to give them an accessory logo? We can assume they are? But there's no word on that, and so this just feels more empty? It could even be a necklace or some shit hell if I care. Point is, those who weren't bothered, probably saw the emblem as more of an aesthetic. It SHOULDN'T be, and therefore, that aesthetic should be replaced, otherwise that probably feels bad. It's like if the symbol were hats, and you never gave them a different one. That's gonna feel bad. NSFW - This is really the one I disagree with you on, which is completely okay. I understand there are lots of creeps out there, but you can't really let that cloud the themes of this game. Skullgirls, in fact, bears a very NSFW theme. It might say "13+" but that contradicts things like Valentine winning, having a thermometer appear from her breasts before popping. Heck the name of the game is a play off "Schoolgirls", and the protag, Fillia, is a sexualized one, who's had official Fillia porn drawn by her artist, Zone-tan and they knew this while working with her. To me, this cannot be argued, and the fact that so much material like this is being removed, is proof of that. To me, the issue mainly here is again, it feels like a sloppy band-aid fix. There's scene where there are tongues have entangled a few characters in a BDSM styled scene and to censor this.. they added more of the tongue to cover crotches and breasts? It just looks sloppy and in some ways worse. Cerebella - Similar to Valentine, this character is legal (18) apparently so I think that's entirely fine. This game again, bears NSFW themes and one could argue it is a part of it's identity. It may not be all characters, similar to SF6 having more modest dressing characters like Lily, but clearly people would be upset of Cammy/Juri lost fan service after being a certain way for over a decade. I also think that most people who continued to support SG, can't really virtue signal others? Because to an extent, there had to be SOME layer of "this is a drawing" to have kept playing, knowing these themes existed. As proof, if they used actual children as models, no one who isn't a chronic weirdo would actually be playing that crap. Not every game needs to be sexualized, but it is a part of the game's aesthetic objectively. Fillia - Another character that shares adult themes, but wrongfully. My thing is, I actually think this one is the least change to be blowing up about yet it gets the most clout from virtue signalers? So in some layer we kinda agree? However, to me, this game is full of themes that are taboo to begin with, such as the nazi stuff being removed. For example, I think it's weird when I see people undermining actual victims of pedophiles by associating the word with drawings (calling them weirdos is fine), but it's okay for the devs a day after this change, to post Marie's bones/corpse with a grimace drink joke, who's thirteen. Dead children, them being butchered by painwheel, gore or Eliza ripping her skin off is fine, but panties is the huge line? Saying it's a fighter as an excuse doesn't matter because the content still contains children like Umbrella being gutted? If she were a toddler it'd look weird, but not if they're a few years older? Should we remove Hungern swallowing an enemy Annie? Is that vore? SOMEONE out there IS bothered by that, no matter how silly it sounds, and I think this all is just one big battle of morals/virtue signaling for this specific point. Taboos in general/Solution for Fillia - Anyone who denies this never truly cared about removing disturbing themes equally. Being immune to grim themes, does not make them less of a taboo than underwear from Fillia. Extending on that, you can barely tell Fillia's even that age? She looks identical to Squiggly (28) and Cerebella (18). Of course most who only bought it for the fighter is gonna drool over a thick cartoon who looks like the other two adults, not take it seriously and play another game. It's dishonest to believe otherwise, as well as blood-hungry to believe it's all ill intent. The correct solution to me, in compared to giving pale colors black underwear (which is done irl to draw more attention lol), is just making her 18 since it's how she was treated. This in essence keeps her exactly how she was, and is less work. Apparently her b-day is in March, so she'd still be a schoolgirl, while carrying as much NSFW. Removing the scene in the beginning I think is fine, but that guy did get killed right after so I'm 50/50 on it but don't care. TLDR; I mostly agree and think there's basically a battle of moral over the Fillia themes, as well as NSFW stuff. To me those get annoyingly blown up, when they're the least annoying changes. Someone told me recently in most places the age of consent is 16? But nahhh it's better to just make it globally legal, as it's a global game, and again, she was treated as if she was that age anyway.

[@Gloomistic]

I also want to add there are themes like Valentine literally being a serial killer. Is it okay to glorify murder? Lol like I just think this game has fucked up shit in general, and I don't think Fillia's is worse than that but twitter pretends it is. But anyway, I know your video was more so a rant, so there might be things we probably agree more on, blahblah ect ect.

[@AzazelTBD]

And I appreciate you're point of view! Again, I do think that the censorship is a good thing. The difference between the violent themes in Skullgirls and the sexual themes is huge though. The character designs are made to be sexually provocative, and that is the core design language of the game. That doesn't mean we need to like it or applaud it because that's not the only appeal the game has. The violence against minors, while distressing, is the core of the games over-arcing story. Them being sexualized is not. If Marie doesn't die, the plot of the game doesn't take place. I'm not saying that the violence against her is good, but that is an actual plot point that matters. Filia being assaulted as a minor is not important to the story and is gross. My point was not that the game being 13+ is reason to censor every single mature theme, it was to highlight the fact that there ARE people of that age playing the game, so I don't care as much when certain sexual or offensive scenes are cut. You have to remember that this is a whole new director running the game who has a very different vision for it than Mike Z does. Again, if it's not affecting your experience in the game (which it shouldn't unless you ONLY play story mode) I don't think it's super serious outside of wasting people's money without warning. Thanks for shedding some insight into points I didn't cover in the vid, I love picking peoples minds about this topic

[@Gloomistic]

I appreciate the reply, and I find the discussion interesting as well. Yeah that's a good point, there are people 13 (or even younger haha) playing this, so that makes complete sense. I agree it has fantastic themes in general, and shaving some off this one isn't really that bad LOL yeah I think the main issue is wasting people's money without warning, and the kickstarter. Twitter would have you thinking the real issue is that Fillia is somehow a real child, and actually got assaulted because I barely hear anything else. IT'S LIKE, WE CAN JUST MAKE HER 18 BEFORE GRADUATION (WHO CAN EVEN TELL??) AND TALK ABOUT MORE IMPORTANT STUFF. THAT'S LESS WORK TOO SO THEY CAN FOCUS ON FIXING THE OTHER STUFF?

[@RainbowJemHxC]

I had a fear this was going to be an "anti woke" video because omg are people exaggerating. I am thankful this was a thoughtful video and more so was understanding of both sides. I agree with everything you said but I also wanted to add some of the pictures were veery questionable like Parasoul looking like "I am almost naked and dressed like a Nazi UwU" like the nazi imagery was terrible especially when you learn that parasoul is one of the good characters. It don't mind her knowing her father was a dictator (mobile explains the current story and such). And parasoul wants to undo the harm the best she can. The filia story thank the lord they took off that scene that shiii was disgusting. I really hate that scene where they vividly showed it with a fan service panty shot? No mama, get that out of here. That cheapens the impact so much! It's suppose to be serious/gross now it's annoying and a different type of gross. The big band story change and art book is the most I feel mixed about. I saw a KZbinr suggesting they close the art book and make a new one, instead of taking out pages. I think that's the best compromise (it reminds me of Rebecca sugar and the concrete situation) because it shows the past mistakes while showing they changed for the better. They want to have a better image but shouldn't remove content people paid for. Big band i feel really depends i can see it triggering for sure. Seen a lot black people defending the side of "they should of left it in." As a latine I can't coomment. This is rated teen game so I am not sure how to feel about it. Thanks for the disgustion a lot!

[@shriderrad4123]

Ngl I'm pretty disappointed in your take, defending any of the censorship is pretty ridiculous at least in my opinion. I do agree with your opinion that there should have been an option to turn off any "mature content"

[@AzazelTBD]

I don't agree with defense of censorship being ridiculous. Especially in the case of Skullgirls, as it's under a new developer and team, I can understand why they want to distance themselves from Mike Z and his influence on a lot of weird things in Skullgirls. Thank you for responding, I appreciate your opinion

[@Gloomistic]

@@AzazelTBD Deleted my other comment here after gauging more of your perspective from your other comment! I have heard of something about Mike Z having some sort of case involving suing SG and there being proof he didn't harass anyone? I haven't read the full doc and mmmmmm dunno, seems hard to prove unless there's like texts or something of them trying to overthrow the guy? Haha but hell if I know.

[@AzazelTBD]

There were just a lot of rumors and negative things about MIke Z in general. As is the case with cancel culture, even if it isn't true, until fully unproven it's best to just keep your distance, y'know? As far as we've heard from the old staff team, he was an awful boss and was doing very questionable/offensive things in the story mode.

[@bo7348]

It’s really sad when you type Skullgirls in the search bar on yt and all you get is videos of people ranting about Skullgirls being too woke because they’re taking a scene of a minor being sexually assaulted out of the game. Thank you for being one of the normal Skullgirls creators and making this video

[@bo7348]

And of course the other problematic scenes

[@phongngothai6143]

In the video you said that people who like the underage sexual content in game is the porn addicted weirdo, with your logic every one who like shooting game is a school shooter. The point is there is a different between real life and fiction. And you also said people who don't want this sensorship is a self center but that can go both way, people who think that every thing have to sensor because they find that thing is offensive to THEM

[@AzazelTBD]

Again, that's why I suggested the slider. I understand that it's not offensive to everyone, but if even one person is turned away from the content being present, then that's a problem. Also, even if it's a digital minor, the character is still portrayed as a minor. I think that's a problem, especially given the proclivities of Skullgirls Ex-lead. Games should be welcoming to everyone, and I think it's a good thing. I do appreciate your opinion though.

[@phongngothai6143]

@@AzazelTBD the game can't compete with the modern fighting game, why even bother. At that point they should make their own game if they hate Mike z and other thing in the game that bad. Trying to revive skullgirl is like trying to do a cpr for a rotten corpse

[@AzazelTBD]

@@phongngothai6143 I respectfully disagree. Skullgirls has had an incredibly loyal and active community for the last 10 years. It's been a main stage game at multiple major tournaments for years as well. Trying to modernize the games content without touching the gameplay is a good step forward, mainly because so many people still play and are learning new things about this game every day.

[@phongngothai6143]

@@AzazelTBDI don't know whether pc is the most popular platform to play skullgirl or not but i just chech and there is 564 peak player. Ah yes, the community who got they content rip off they hand unwillingly without a single compensation. Not even a head up and now get the cold shoulder treatment from the devs

[@Sage-H26]

@@AzazelTBD So I do know that this video is two weeks old but can I throw my two cents in, I don’t know everything about the game like at all except what the characters look like and that’s about it I don’t know about the story or the art book or anything else so I don’t really have a leg to stand on here when talking about the game. However I will say this, I’m not a fan of taking things out people payed for now granted about the whole Fillia thing I didn’t know her age I assumed they were all older then they seemed but I do feel that could’ve been just a simple fix make her 18 or 20 to fix that whole issue there now I’m guessing the game is for everyone, again I don’t know I don’t play the game so I assumed it was for a specific audience like the fans that like risqué content with fighting or whatever that’s what one would assumed because of the little bit of spice that’s in there which is the case with spicy games but I digress, the art book and DLC being changed is an absolute big no no to me I do not support that whatsoever if people payed for something specifically it needs to be as advertised or you need to refund every last person who bought it and that goes for anything for me not just Skullgirls. In my opinion and this is just my opinion the game is 10 years old it’s been a decade since it came out and I feel there’s really no point in removing anything I mean to me doing it is pointless you have art of the game that’s on the internet from decades of it being out so if someone looked up big band or whoever they are and saw what they look like I’m sure people can put two and two together to figure out who they are representing, now I heard you say they were good guys I don’t know anything about the story as I thought they were villains it would’ve made sense. Anyway I do feel some people are taking it way too far but I do see some of their arguments and I feel they should’ve said (Hey we had an old employee here who views were different from ours some things in the game we don’t agree with and we’ll make sure to be more aware of the things we’re putting in our games from now on) while leaving the 10 year old game as is while making sure new ones don’t practice what came before. Now I don’t wanna seem rude but I feel that people should either get the context of why said thing is in the the game because it could be from a narrative standpoint and sending a message or I feel people should just leave it and find a another game their comfortable with, I mean for me personally I wouldn’t want a franchise to change because I’m an outsider coming into it and then I don’t like it so now I want the series to change to satisfy my tastes despite the fans that already been there before I came in and payed for what they wanted whether that be violence, puzzle solving, horror gore or sexy their getting what they payed for as their the core individuals that wanted that created the fanbase to begin with and loved the series since it came out I can move on and find something else if I’m not feeling the vibe of the franchise, Now I’m not defending the actions of an adult filling up a minor character if she was a certain age that’s the only thing I will say they did right or they could’ve just aged her up but everything else was entirely you need the context bro and the big army should’ve been switched to bad guys, now I don’t think every fighting game in existence has to be sexy either or include certain groups or anything like that I’m just saying I feel they could’ve handled that a bit better than they did especially if above anything else that digital art book that was kinda scummy to me as people have no way of refunding it back if they don’t want it anymore since it’s been so long, but that’s my stance on it. Sorry the comment is long just wanted to get my thoughts out.

[@TheGamer19856]

I appreciate you being open to both sides of the argument even if i disagree with some of them. I think you argued them well. I think if they REALLY felt the need to update a decade old games decade old content, first of all it should have had prior warning, but more importantly all that content should have stayed in the digital art book. It IS part of skullgirls history. I am very into archiving and seeing them remove something and act like it never was there regardless of the context upsets me. I think what those old racist warner brothers cartoons do is better. Put up a warning and explain these arent the views of the current team, they actively disagree with them and that they're only here so we can learn from these mistakes. Deleting them from an artbook people paid for and then letting people who auto update lose it with no prior warning put such a bad taste in my mouth. I actually entirely understand why a lot of the content was removed, its more the attitude the devs took to doing it that upsets me. I do think its a little disingenuous for everyone to throw people upsets about the art being less sexy under the bus though. Skullgirls from day 1 has always been a risque, provocative game. The stuff about minors i understand, even if id have probably just aged everyone up to 18. Lets not forget Zone-tan, a popular hentai artist got hired onto the animation team because they made a hentai animation. Quite a lot of the cast are based off of kink architypes (school girl, nurse, military leader, Nun, Beowulf) I do think a lot of the changes are so minor that its been blown out of proportion on both ends. Id argue that argument is about 5 years late, when they removed all the panty shots. But I think that people who liked skullgirls the last decade for its sexy designs deserve to be considered just as valid as people who like it for its combat, and that they shouldn't be ridiculed if they're upset by the changes. I'm personally am really attached to the lore, ive always been miffed they toned down whatever Samsons original motive was, so i get it. (Im also that weirdo whos been replaying everyone's story mode once every 6 months the last 5 or so years) One last thing to note is that in the video you give Mike a lot of the credit to weird calls like Fillias ass being groped (which given her father is a medici I always found a really strange inclusion), but Alex Ahad is the guy who designed the characters, art and Lore of skullgirls. Mike covered the programming. He also actually pushed back on a lot of the more sexual stuff (he supported removing the panty shots after alex left, he refused to include the original time over animation for filia, etc) Overall, great video i applaud how level headed you were! I hope we still get more lore videos!