The Primordials Horrific Secret - Lore and Theory

[@nonsensicalrants1703]

Thank you SIR!

[@Installation00]

No. Thank you good sir.

[@nonsensicalrants1703]

@@Installation00 You really did make changes and adapt my theory into something a bit more palatable. Made the precursors seem much less apathetic and amoral, and more driven by a belief or mission that can be respected and appreciated, even if it's bad for us. I both like and dislike it in some way, but like it in more ways than I don't. Hope you also take my theory on combating the flood and make that into a video.

[@steinerxyz]

@@nonsensicalrants1703 Pretty neat theory. One question in context of this theory though, why did the flood choose to stop attacking ancient humanity?

[@Ratkill9000]

@@steinerxyz To give the Forerunners a false sense of security that Ancient Humanity found a cure for the Flood infection.

[@nonsensicalrants1703]

@@steinerxyz I should preface what I'm about to say, hell, everything I ever say with this disclaimer. I'm not a Halo lore buff. Haven't read the books. Haven't played any of the games outside of the original trilogy and reach. But from what I understand the flood retreated for the following reasons. 1) to truck both humans into believing they had found a cure when they didn't and the forerunners into believing they weren't a great enough threat to legitimize ancient humanity's seeming agreasion in fleeing into their terrotiory. 2) To get the forerunners and humans to destroy each other while they lay in wait to destroy the Victor. 3) The human cure actually worked to an extent.🤷‍♂️

[@thermalvision203]

Well, this theory certainly paints the Forerunners in a better light that's more in line with their portrayal in the original Halo trilogy. Also, if this theory is true (which all signs currently point to it being true) then Halo has been upgraded from space horror to Lovecraftian cosmic horror.

[@mark-anthony113]

And if the Precursors meant for humans to receive the mantle, what does that say about us? Maybe we should um, toss the mantle to someone else, like a hot potato 👀

[@brockwilkie6022]

my thoughts exactly

[@nonsensicalrants1703]

@@mark-anthony113 In my original theory the mantle of responsibility is a lie told to one species of cattle so they act as shepherding dogs to the other cattle species.

[@keenanrobinson7239]

@@nonsensicalrants1703 That sounds about right.

[@SamA-xq1bm]

@@nonsensicalrants1703 Mind blown, Halo lore is almost too good. These Mf's know something.

[@vashvalentine4991]

so if this theory is right, that would mean the halo rings dont starve the flood out of biomass, but of the experiences made by the living beings that are killed. the halo rings are literally a mass-boredom ray.

[@Sergeant1127]

They're just the reset button, so that lif can be seeded once again new experiences to be had.

[@tehllama42]

One wonders if the Precursors/Flood initiated the idea of the rings to early Forerunners, with the intention of making that reset button even easier and quicker, and provided they could whitewash the domain of any records, could there have been eons where the Forerunners unwittingly cycled the whole galaxy through this process to make it easier before discovering the truth?

[@bigbangrafa8435]

@@Sergeant1127 This means that as long as life exists the Flood is invincible, existing in an infinite symbiotic cicle. Like the Chaos Gods in Warhammer and Darkseid in DC will always exist as long as evil and all It's negative aspects exist as well.

[@FreezyPop]

@@tehllama42 that's an amazing theory

[@rexaar90176]

@@Sergeant1127 nope. It's forrunners EMP briefcase. Purge the data in the milkyway

[@VanessaFlyhight]

I always thought suicide was a little extreme for whatever the answer was but no I think you're right this definitely makes sense. I can't believe that I fell for the Precursors propaganda that the Forerunner were the bad guys

[@isaachinds3736]

Let's be honest here, like W40k everything is a bad guy. Forerunners were the lesser of 2 evils.

[@thomasbriscoe7439]

​@@isaachinds3736 The emperor did nothing wrong.

[@nonsensicalrants1703]

@@isaachinds3736 I agree with van. Forerunners were good guys. You're confusing good with perfect. Their extreme measures in protecting life were informed by the existence of the flood. Absolute totalitarianism is necessary to combat the precursors. Not ideal, but we don't live in a perfect world.

[@TorchyThePyro]

Consider that perhaps, much like the Forerunner Domain in a meta sense we too, as the viewer, are being lied to by the Precursors.

[@wolfangstrike2220]

That’s why cortana is upset

[@samgdotson]

This is an intensely dark interpretation of Carl Sagan's quote that "we are a way for the Universe to know itself."

[@ChaosWolfNinja]

Oh frick!!! 😳

[@alejandrojuarez5640]

@@thebiggusdonnus8453 Man, that sounds really cool and freaky to think about.

[@ChristmasMonkey444]

and right there...what you said....that is exactly where i believe all this is based on....i totally agree with what you said....

[@DoktrDub]

Yeah... a cosmic horror interpretation lol

[@Fyre0]

I was thinking of the same quote during this video.

[@heftymagic4814]

This is fucking awesome. I love how it makes the forerunners seem less greedy, betraying the mantal not because of they believed to be the inheritors, but because they learned of the truth and tried to save the galaxy from it

[@budwhite9591]

Yea, but they kinda did that in a crappy way, all too familiar to the type of political and governmental hierarchy corruption that we see today. Halo arrays vs shield worlds, builders vs other guilds of forerunners. All the rich and scheming upper political class who “care for and serve the little people and never themselves “. So yea the idea of the go forerunners was grand, but the implementations of it was self serving. Then there’s that whole being the judge jury and executioner of all of humanity, because how dare they hold a position over forerunners

[@ronk9209]

@@budwhite9591 im not reading allat

[@limpychick4724]

@@budwhite9591 I'd say that the stakes of "protecting all of life from the universe itself" goes a long way to justifying some of the more draconian actions of the Forerunners. But that said, just like how it was mentioned in the video that the Forerunners forgot their own history over 10 million years, their society became more and more corrupt, and they restrained themselves less over that span of time. Basically, the way they went about assuming the Mantle is a separate issue from the state of their governance of life 10 million years later.

[@Ketchup_and_Mustard373]

@@ronk9209 wow you can't read 4 sentences smh. How intellectual of you 💀

[@ronk9209]

@@Ketchup_and_Mustard373 doesn't know what a joke is lmao

[@Azrael_Equinox]

When you're so hard-core that you write yourself permanently into the fabric of reality.

[@isaachinds3736]

Vex says hi!

[@Bryanmiester]

Isaac Hinds Lmao Bungie was sad that they couldn’t finish so they started over and got a lil shaky. At least we know triangles and vex are workin together. Maybe at the end of it all they’ll say that light and dark are the same. Already gonna have powers of the dark soon

[@draven4464]

@@Bryanmiester Yeah, they decided that Destiny was much more 'immersive'. Even though it's so pathetic it makes Bethesda and EA look acceptable by comparison, such a letdown that so many followed the brand rather than the story of Halo

[@mike-0451]

Isaac Hinds you beat me

[@mike-0451]

Cin Lee destiny lore is better than halos. They perfected this idea in destiny.

[@Red-Brick-Dream]

The real reason the Forerunners were denied the Mantle: it wasn't in spite of, but *precisely because* they were more civilized and altruistic than the Humans.

[@Neptune2109]

I also see the flood as a type of great filter for sufficiently advanced civilizations. And well, we know that both the forerunners and ancient humanity failed....

[@RedLithic]

@@Neptune2109 Ancient humanity failed because they were fighting a two front war.

[@JustinLaFleur1990]

@@RedLithic a 2 front war where one front absorbed their weapons, soldiers, ships, and tactics and used them all against them. Even still they were able to fight for hundreds if not thousands of years damned impressive.

[@gabrielm.942]

You haven’t read the books have you? The Forerunners failed the Precursors and perverted mantle. The decision to give it to mankind was made millions of years before our rise to rival the forerunners. In our earliest days our people came to the conclusion that life and the Universe was in a Roll and tug. Essentially meaning that struggle was an inherent part of life and that those who couldn’t survive did not deserve to. Precursors were in line with this, whereas the Forerunners guarded all life even going to so far as to provide and take away the struggle of life. An asteroid coming for a planet? The forerunners would yeet the asteroid whereas the Precursors would be like, “bye”.

[@BLOrtega]

@@JustinLaFleur1990 one front wherein everything you throw at them is basically thrown back at you and the other is a highly advanced species that number in millions

[@clauvex7829]

"You will be food... nothing more." - Universe

[@karakas9905]

Food for thought.

[@jakeballou5147]

@@karakas9905 Words must be edible

[@jakeballou5147]

If you think about it everything is consumed one way or another. Whether you are eaten by worms or fire we will all be consumed in the end. Cosumed by are selves....we eat are selves...forever 😆

[@karakas9905]

@@jakeballou5147 I eat yo maka everyday. Just kidding.

[@MEGAbrandon281]

the more you think bout it the creeper it gets

[@LordofFullmetal]

This is honestly one of my favourite theories. The dust never corrupted; it's functioning exactly as it was intended to. The point of the dust was to bring the precursors back, but they never specified HOW.

[@AudraT]

With the dust coming back... I always understood it that either the dust was corrupted from the Precursor's bitterness in that their creation destroyed their creators or that the dust was corrupted after the humans genetically messed with it to give it to their pets. This was the first time I've heard that the Precursor's voluntarily allowed themselves to be destroyed by the Forerunner's. I wonder which description is true to lore.

[@shooey-mcmoss]

They sent only one to rip and tear until its done

[@michaelpacicco3685]

brings a whole new meaning to, "The gun pointed at the head of the universe".

[@evinbraley]

Huh, I guess it does. I wonder if it'd be possible to kill the living universe by just placing an near unlimited amount of halo rings across the universe?

[@mj91212]

@@evinbraley Maybe, but you’d also be destroying everything else in the process. Very much a Pyrrhic victory yeah?

[@gdubs2]

@@mj91212 Unless of course, the Great Journey exists ;)

[@AzureTheAvian]

@@gdubs2 I. AM. TRUTH.

[@mph23290]

@evinbraley a bit late to this comment but I had a thought when reading your reply. You mention whether using a lot of halos could kill the universe, but what if completely wiping out the flood does just that. The way the living universe sustains itself is by feeding on the knowledge, memories and emotions accumulated by sentient life, and they feed on these things through the Flood. So if you wipe out the flood completely then are you condemning the universe itself to starvation? However long that may take, it would regardless mean the end of all existence. So with the flood your only options would be to preserve them and feed them periodically to sustain the universe and ensure that all life, current and future have a reality to exist in, but also by extension put life at risk by having the flood still exist because they will break out eventually and Won't be imprisoned forever. Or do you wipe them out completely and non figuratively start a doomsday clock for trillions of years. That would mean there's no real way to stop the flood. Sentient life loses either way. Perhaps that's the great test the precursors intends for humanity to see whether they are worthy of the mantle, find a way to have the flood and life coexist without wiping one or the other out

[@terriblemonstersart8144]

Suddenly the Covenant Empire didn’t seem so bad after all.

[@flawless_Cowboy]

Not in the least 😂

[@zackferron3995]

No kidding lol XD

[@OBtheamazing]

This brings up a follow up theory I just had. The forerunners were capable of genetically encoding info into a species. What if they encoded for the prophets and the elites to worship forerunner tech and to embrace the firing of the halos. So that if the flood ever comes back, they would act as a contingency to restart the universe again. When the time came, forerunners learned of humanity’s fight and sacrifice against the flood and choose not to encode this belief into the humans. They marked the humans as reclaimers so they could lead the other species in the firing, if humans choose this as the right decision. If they are willing to sacrifice a third of their population on a long shot. Then surely they are willing to fire the halo arrays.

[@CarlosRodriguez-nu5gj]

Forerunners suddenly were the good guys

[@blopblop7682]

ArcticRaven 907 well I mean they did raid earth and eliminate earth 2 aka planet Reach and make constant attempts to destroy humanity.

[@KingMoon110]

I think that he said that those consumed by the Flood are forever bound to the parasite and tortured like Captain Keys was, like in a literal version of Dante's Inferno and that humans would be all consumed by it eventually, hence why some people chosed to commit suicide, so they wouldnt be infected.

[@justiron2999]

This theory holds water, when the forerunners composed infected beings and then returned to the physical plain they were still infected with the flood. So basically once infected always infected.

[@Edithae]

This begs the question then...when Chief destroyed Captain Keyes' body by punching through his head retrieving his neural chip...did that "kill" Captain Keyes ending his consciousness and his suffering...or does Captain Keyes' consciousness still "live on" so to speak, as a part of the Flood gestalt hive mind? Thats a horrifying though, Keyes could still be suffering years after his body was destroyed.

[@KingMoon110]

@@Edithae In theory, Captain Keys counsciness is still infected by the Flood since The Flood is conected to The Precursors Neural Physics.

[@TeamBOBBYEE]

@@Edithae his experiences up to that point are ended by him being punched to death by chief , if left there in that state. His mind / “body” still in tact being physically & mentally tortured by the flood ( like continually juicing keyes for experience/sweetness ) which is living hell. I’m not sure if the flood can consume experience thru dead tissue or needs a fresh brain stem, but assume it needs you alive / brain matter in tact to tap your consciousness: Then when it absorbs you it can take a screen shot of your mind at that point then divert your biomass , But if it chooses, it can just physically add you without killing you like they did Keyes and the prophet when he was made into a tendril during the meeting with chief / arbiter TLTR : chief mercy killed Keyes and severed the mind assault / body disfigurement

[@TeamBOBBYEE]

Once the flood infect the mind it cannot be recycled thru forerunner tech, which would explain why the forerunners commit Suicide but then asks how does consciousness end at death ? Do you break the cycle if not consumed and if so what happens to those who die without being consumed?

[@Upsilon1984]

"Do I take life or give it. Who is victim and who is foe?"

[@MistahFox]

*foe

[@Upsilon1984]

@@MistahFox thank you

[@theseventhcolumn9827]

Victims don’t spread creep.

[@sleipnirodin2881]

@@theseventhcolumn9827 *Construct additional Pylons.*

[@antonironstag5085]

Child of my enemy, why have you come? I offer no forgiveness.

[@CD-vg4hl]

:"humanity were seeded,. nurtured, allowed to advance, build poetry, arts, science, experience, expanded, raised like cattle to be consumed and our experiences to be fed to the universe as sustenance, over and over again". "You will be food; nothing more..."- Gravemind Really puts it into perspective doesnt it.

[@Bigglesworthicus]

literal chills reading that

[@DoktrDub]

Yeah and the living universe seems really mean.. wouldn’t it hurt to say “come on man it’s just how it goes, chill, I ain’t devouring you, we are just becoming one!”

[@InfernoPhoenix100]

Kinda similiar to what we are doing to animals today

[@centurymemes1208]

@@InfernoPhoenix100 dont ever ever compare that to us

[@UnknownName5050]

It’s kind of disturbing even in reality when you consider simulation theory has hardly any evidence against it and would imply it’s not the first go round here. Halo continues to amaze me. I had no idea it’s lore was this complex, and personally, inspiring.

[@gianthairypickle9583]

Learning that the Primordial species are essentially the embodiment of Non Duality and oneness with the universe makes me appreciate halo on an infinitely deeper level, Primordials realize that they are infinite so to them, They know no difference between the flood and themselves, just sweetness and unity

[@basedstreamingatcozy-dot-t7126]

makes you appreciate HALO on an INFINITEly deeper level?

[@magnumdog5464]

@@basedstreamingatcozy-dot-t7126 Groyper.

[@basedstreamingatcozy-dot-t7126]

@@magnumdog5464 o7, King

[@magnumdog5464]

@@basedstreamingatcozy-dot-t7126 Thanks fren.

[@mph23290]

To say that my mind is blown is an understatement. The flood were always a terrifying concept to me, like how the grave mind will have all the of the knowledge and memories of the previous ones, existing in the very fabric of the universe, but I always thought the ancient humans killing themselves was a bit over the top, I was so very wrong. My view on the flood is forever changed. That part about the forerunners slaughtering the precursors was something I never could quite get my head around. Why would they just up and decide to kill their gods? Now it makes sense

[@Vash_Carrison]

@Jazz Feline like adding more seasoning to the food before consumption.

[@admiralfishface8750]

Right? It’s all so freaking disturbing! Like it’s very unsettling, and I love it!

[@stoneskull1673]

The Forerunners didn't kill their Gods for no reason at all? You know how crazy that sounds???

[@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy]

But why did didact still call humanity the bad guys???🤔🤔🤔

[@mph23290]

@@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy because as the humans took the mantle into their hands and destroyed flood infected planets without alerting the forerunners of its existence, the didact sees it as an act of galaxy-wide genocide as he doesn't know of the floods existence. The humans and forerunners were also at war at the time so that probably explains why they didn't tell the forerunners what they were doing. The didact also lost his children to the humans as well so that probably doesn't help matters. The didact was also driven insane after speaking to the primordial and this likely meant that any reasoning, even by his own wife the librarian, about convincing the didact that the war should end and that humans should hold the mantle would be seen as blasphemy to him. He also blames the humans for the floods takeover of the galaxy and all this builds up to a natural hatred for humanity

[@CyberSonic-V3.0]

Ironic, the creators of life ended up becoming the greatest threat to that life.

[@CyberSonic-V3.0]

Barbare4032 Not from the Forerunners

[@kyleknight9686]

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Primordial the Wise?

[@sidewinder1176]

@@CyberSonic-V3.0 cortana pls no be bad to unsc

[@isaachinds3736]

@@kyleknight9686 No.

[@jaimealvarado4421]

@Cortana Not quite. The creators of life in the Milky Way had always intended to assimilate their creation. Life was created only to sustain the living universe. So they did not BECOME a threat. Destruction of life is what they always intended.

[@WALTERRIFIC]

Neato. They're kind of like the Reapers. Sow life and then complete the cycle by devouring it and being enriched by it.

[@krishnaaitha8677]

OMG u watch halo!!, btw I love ur vids

[@rayafk8502]

Wtf? Hahaha nice seeing you here

[@krishnaaitha8677]

@@rayafk8502 Yea exactly

[@mgpmisterk2322]

Oh hey it's the dude who rides motorcycles all the time

[@dennisjassmann7584]

Yeah I just thought of that too, it's really similar in a way, although the Reapers are more brutal in a way, as the precursors use a slow but steady process instead

[@VF-Krieger]

Heavily possible and pretty disturbing if you ask me. Pretty Lovecraftian too actually. Brings back the all Alien Prometheus story. We all assume that we are created by creatures that were animated by pure intentions. But how would you feel if you come to realize that like the vegetables in your backyard, you’re basically a crop like many other types of crops in a universal garden. And that the creation of your existence, the meaning of life itself can be summarized into : « well I needed food so there you are. » Remember rick and morty, the episode with the passing butter robot ? Or mass effect with the harvester ? Same story... Ouch !

[@ir2264]

Like the Gravemind states, The Flood is like water with “ebbs and flows”, if they planned to become the Living Universe of their ideology, they sustain the system while propping up races that can reset the balance, prolonging a cycle of experience and consumption. The Forerunners were able to cleanse the galaxy, but, likely with the Precursors this too is part of the cycle. Pruning and being pruned to enrich the experience further.

[@JacobTyler1776]

This concept opens up some interesting avenues of consideration about why the God of the Bible allows suffering, the Devil to exist, etc. The universe, according to this theory, allows all these horrific things to happen all to enrich itself (which is kind of circular and cosmic nihilism on a grand scale, it would seem to me). For God the cycle goes on for a transcental purpose as well that mortals can't fully wrap their heads around. But the God of the Bible allows such things for inherently pure and righteous motives, albeit ones that are beyond the scope of mortal man to fully comprehend, in stark contrast to the universe itself coming across as a bit of villian as far as literally any given race of beings is concerned.

[@mariastevens6406]

How do you even win against that?

[@daveman90000]

@@mariastevens6406 You don't. And that's the reality the humans listening to the primordial were faced with.

[@BanishedSilentShadow3318]

This has turned into a Lovecraft horror story, damn.

[@isaachinds3736]

Yeah halo can be pretty depression when thinking upon the abstract and down the line consequences.

[@IAsimov]

It's been since the Forerunner trilogy. Though I disagree with Isaac Hinds. If anything, the Master Chief's story is a story of hope.

[@TaintedMojo]

It always has had lovecraftian elements.

[@admiralprestoncole]

Chuthulu is a Precursor?!

[@chrislorin9837]

@@admiralprestoncole You beat me to it. And also, I read in another comment stream that the flood are meant to unite and preserve all life, and that the precursors either always meant to end with the flood, or were originally benevolent creatures who were naive, and had their naivete stripped away when the forerunners attacked them out of jealousy against the humans. So halo either was mass effect before mass effect was mass effect, or halo is pulling a Hamlet.

[@DSas2300]

Ancient Human: Hey, what's the Flood? Primordial: I am. Ancient Human: **Gunshot**

[@nonsensicalrants1703]

Did you intend to make think of the Futurama explanation of the dinosaur's extinction?

[@dojokonojo]

Wait, the Precursors are the flood? Always has been. *Click*

[@AdeptKing]

It was like a god telling its people that their purpose is just to grow and die for their nurishment/amusement.

[@mayomaster1134]

Forget the video theory above, this is what really happened.

[@SuperExodian]

@@AdeptKing flood is 40K chaos gods confirmed

[@pogwog5309]

Last time I was this early, the Sangheili and San Shyuum were still at war. The first time

[@brockwilkie6022]

same

[@brambo3011]

This is mind-blowing, the relation between the flood and Precursors always seemed to have more to it, and this makes so much sense. I already wanted the Flood to be in Infinite's campaign, but now I REALLY want them, even if not at launch, a story dlc like "awakening the nightmare" in Halo Wars 2, or something to bring them back would just be awesome for so many reasons imo.

[@onikai7055]

This is probably the most disturbing, deepest, darkest halo lore ever

[@Phoenix-214]

This theory bears an uncanny resemblance to the cycle of destruction the Reapers impose on the Mass Effect universe's Milky Way. However, if this theory holds up, then the Living Universe and the Precursors are an altogether more powerful and horrifying threat, and they cannot be reasoned with. The Reapers had, in a very twisted sort of way, an altruistic cause for their actions. Their philosophy was ironically more akin to the Forerunners' interpretation of the Mantle of Responsibility, just taken to an extreme. But the Living Universe has a much simpler and more uncompromising motive: "You will be food. _Nothing_ more."

[@AutumnOnFire]

Bruh.

[@jujububu3626]

Yes yo

[@BrooksKingdomHeart]

I was also thinking about the barrier to higher existence in the Dead Space universe.

[@Justin14999]

They're saying the precursors created all life in the universe the real question is if they are that powerful theres no way of wiping out the flood/precursor being how much knowledge they possess over billions of years beyond our comprehension and they cycle is just one of many that have occurred and there's no way out but a cycle of war and evolution keeps repeating itself any scenario possible we've witnessed two the Ancient Humans then they got wiped out and now the Spartans which was after the halo was fired and humans repopulated on earth "you will be flood nothing more" meaning all life in the universe one this come from the flood being able to tap into your consciousness halo 3 Master chief and the arbiter if u play co op this I thinks confirms that and Master chiefs vitals came up negative when the flood tapped in the reason why he can move is because how mjolnir works look up hiddenxperia, "how master chief did die in halo 3 "

[@anthonysantacruz8967]

Halo came out first doh. But your right. The long dead Protheans in ME are like the long dead Forerunners in Halo.

[@FableWolfe]

I did not expect an Azathoth level of meaninglessness to existence in Halo. I have to say, I am quite enjoying the hidden, Lovecraftian aspects of the Halo universe--it really makes the stories told more interesting.

[@noellesato311]

Halo: Where you can find both allusions to the biblical Flood and the Ark of the Covenant as well as existential Lovecraftian horror in the unknowable madness that lurks in the abyss between dead galaxies, all the while being delivered in a fun, action packed odyssey of John Haloman who kill aliems and doesn’t afraid of anything (not even the retching ruinous things that consume the minds of all living things, wholly and totally to feed an insatiable, gluttonous universe, a pulsating gelatinous mass of stellar flesh and viscous starlight) and the Arbiter, who cast down false prophets and guided his people to salvation in times of doubt and faithless melancholy, aiding God’s chosen peoples, the Reclaimers, who would take the Ark to stave off the Flood in times of great need.

[@ur-didact1991]

It's called haloism

[@centurymemes1208]

thats why the games portray hope, unity and courage.

[@V1p3r65]

The primordial just quietly goes: It's free real estate.

[@jimmysocks9371]

V1p3r / 😂🤣😂🤣

[@thewretchedpleb7484]

Ancient humans: (interrogate Primordial) Primordial: "I have crippling depression." (Humans commit suicide)

[@ready1player31]

everyone else in the room: i must commit die

[@dannymckenzie8329]

Ita purple

[@isaacjohnpadilla1108]

I am crying tears at this amazing comment 😂😂😂

[@gendygoblin8391]

I actually really like this theory. The Precursors said our experiences are part of the Living universe but they never say how it gets there. They plant the seeds only to return for the fruits in a new form. No wonder they were terrified

[@MeekaChannel]

I was thinking, how horrific could this secret possibly be? And after watching this video I think, yes this has to be it or close to it. I can’t think of anything more horrific than the universe causing suffering just for the sake of experiencing it.

[@JacobTyler1776]

Yeah. This basically makes Halo monotheistic but where the god is evil instead of righteous and loving. Though evil by what standard? I suppose we could say, if we dispense with the idea of a righteous God who exists outside of time and space and is the very personfication of good and truth, through whom our very concept of truth and righteousness is made possible. In this scenario, who's to say allowing the abomination that is the Flood to wreak all the horror and havoc it does arguably is even bad, because to whom is the universe accountable? If everything is just an inevitable part of a cycle that exists so that the universe can be enriched for the sake of being enriched, and this is all there is, than what's the point of morality? It allows societies and civilizations to thrive and grow, sure . . . but only so that they can be devoured and consumed in the most painful and horrific way imaginable? That same morality does not apply to entity that originates the cycle that they are a part of? This opens up very intersesting areas of consideration about why an all-powerful God would want to use the mortals that He creates and why he would allow suffering and evil to exist. And makes it pretty clear that the only real hope we have is that a righteous, all-powerful God really does exist. If stuff like this is the alternative, who WOULDN'T want to serve, know, and worship that God?

[@mariastevens6406]

Kinda makes the universe a bit masochistic, yeah?

[@carlosdgutierrez6570]

​@@JacobTyler1776 "enriched by the sake of being enriched" What if the living universe consuming life is a necessary step to reset it, to reborn after the heat death kills all possibility if life ever evolving again? Then it puts us in a worse position, if the flood is the only way to defeat entropy then we have to choose between allowing the flood to win or comden all of creation to permanent death once entropy consumes all.

[@daddydavo8357]

Crazy to think that the Forerunners were doing us a favour

[@tacobread3]

As we tried to do for them when the flood showed up. Funny af

[@draven4464]

@Jazz Feline But 'we' wouldn't exist tho

[@lordofadmirals6348]

@Jazz Feline the flood would still would have won the war, we may be fend of against them for few more millennia, but precursors made them as they were reset button on the universe

[@myles3856]

@@tacobread3 yup

[@forspartaaa2348]

So is halo a time loop

[@vexjaeger4314]

The why I interpreted this is: the primordial told the ancient humans this isn’t the first time we have consumed your race your empire. You are the “blank” numbered iteration of mankind we seeded. And as we planted you and wanted you grow we have returned to reap our harvest. Fight. Struggle... die. It matters not we will consume you had we have thousands of times before and thousands of times we shall again.” That truth that my entire race as consumed before inly to be reseeded to be consumed again. That we had fight back every time only to lose again and again oh shit that would drive me to sucicde

[@xaldrexane]

We only wished to give you the mantle because we knew your leadership would lead the galaxy to ruin once more and again you will be used to harvest this garden so we may seed you again and sustain ourselves Just thought it worked as an add on to what you said

[@blackshogun272]

Gonna have to find Davros real quick. The reality bomb is starting to look pretty "good" about now. Hell, I'd make The Doctor go back in time and stop himself from killing the body of The Beast and see if it could break the cycle that these damned Precursors have set on the universe. I truly wonder what powers a primordial entity can bring to a fight 🤣

[@lordofadmirals6348]

@@blackshogun272 I am pretty sure they are in league with one above all in marvel universe, destruction, war, loss, blood, is tooooooooioooooo primitive for a species which is older than the universe by unknown time,

[@pimpincrucible2658]

@@lordofadmirals6348 well considering the primordial literally became one with the universe and quoted that the only way for him to perish is for all life to tuck into the folds and break

[@pimpincrucible2658]

@@lordofadmirals6348 I'd say no one really stands a chance except for TOAA because the primordial has lots of powers due to Neural Physics and him warping time and space, being able to change on a molecular level, being able to drive insanity into beings that are much older than Earth, I'd say just about anything you can think of the primordial can most likely do, except for magical abilities, unless you count Neural Physics as magic then yes, magic too

[@CylixTheGamer]

The Primordial, an eldritch horror. This is one way of describing this creature in my opinion.

[@fieldadmiralspartanryseb-8293]

Basically, it's the real life Satan of Halo

[@isaachinds3736]

@@fieldadmiralspartanryseb-8293 No Satan wants to overthrown God, heaven, and corrupt humans. The Primordial is ruled by the Mantle of Responsibility and in turn the universe. Everything it did was in the believe that this is what the living universe wants.

[@fieldadmiralspartanryseb-8293]

@@isaachinds3736 Dude. The damn thing thinks "misery is sweetness" It gets pleasure out of pain and suffering. Satan just has political reasons. The Primordial has psychotic reasons...

[@artificernathaniel3287]

Oh shit the forerunners were the good guys all along

[@AlpineBishop]

@@fieldadmiralspartanryseb-8293 it also thinks any experience is sweetness. It isnt about the things. Its about the things happening because its possible to happen.

[@DanteKG.]

I think that the Domain is the key. The Forerunners used it but didn't entirely comprehend it. I think that in order to beat the Flood you must simultaneously attack it in normal space and in the Domain, destroy it physically and metaphysically. Reminds me of Legacy of Kain where the Elder God who exists in both the material realm and the spectral realm can only be harmed by a weapon that is both physical and spiritual (the completed Soul Reaver)... "Just as the blade rends flesh so too must power scar the spirit"

[@18videowatcher41]

Very interesting theory! I think you’re either correct, or very close to being correct. I believe it’s possible that the flood are NOT the Precursors as they once were, but rather that they are what the Precursors CHOSE to become in the wake of the Forerunners treachery.

[@CovfefeDotard]

There really needs to be games about this era of the halo universe

[@sierra5065]

I'd be down for a game that tells the story of bornstellar tho a movie might fit better with his story.

[@miguelsalas4852]

It would be so disconnected to the main story line that the majority of public wouldn’t get it. Destiny have this kind of problem about the foundation of the story (aka the Dark age and Golden Age) that doesn’t seem to be of interest to the company to make a proper game rather than keep giving hints through the twisted dialogues and Lore: the games stories goes forward (Halo and Destiny). Obviously there is a lot more to talk about this , like an contradictory example of my idea with the fact that Halo Wars 1 which is set 25 years prior to Halo 1, but still: the mainstream Halo games go forward, talking about their stories. The idea is open for discussion

[@chinesecovidanalswabs4752]

TDS

[@InsanityPlea100]

@@miguelsalas4852 gets even more confusing if you consider that the big sphere in the sky of destiny was probably what bungie originally planned for the didact before leaving halo. He comes to earth after the covenant war, and humans basically warship him, thinking he is the god the covenant described. However, he has mal intent, just like its hinted that the visitor in destiny has mal intent. I.e destiny is halo 4 if bungie still ran it, probably why its story was so gutted originally, they couldnt use halo lore that originally propper it up.

[@GhostLink92]

@@chinesecovidanalswabs4752 it really is sad to see.

[@spartan11payne]

The way I interpreted this is that the reason the Precursors seeded life in the galaxy was much like the way a farmer does: to wait until their crop is ripe for harvesting. Perhaps mortal life to the precursors is just a crop they grow, and then consume the garden they planted.

[@bartoszpastuszak257]

Its like gravemind on halo 3: ,,Resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved... but you imposed." So that the flood will try to inflict pain and suffering on the galaxy and the universe, and then they are defeated and universe has peace, and the circle goes like this... just like precursors wanted and what they believed in...

[@xMyInnerFredx]

@Canuk Kun heard its getting a sequel

[@thomas.02]

if i may add to that, defeat is a 'sentence' or punishment to the gravemind because the flood cannot consume more experience/people. given the universe/precursors/flood treat any and all living beings' experience as 'sweetness', defeating the flood would mean denying your friendly neighbourhood cosmic horror the ice cream it made

[@xMyInnerFredx]

@Canuk Kun cool surprised though

[@jas6853]

@@thomas.02 that made me chuckle a bit

[@theOni877]

Now this is by far the best theory and makes so much more sense. The war waged by the forerunners was not out of anger, but out of selfishness. To save not just themselves but everyone. This really reignited my interest in the halo universe after all these years. I love this theory. Great video man.

[@broregret]

"no peace amongst the stars, just endless war and the laughter of dark gods"

[@MisterSPO]

@@broregret in grim dark far future of the Galaxy there is only war

[@EnterTheDream]

The Precursors are so interesting not because of what we know, but what we don't know. They did fall from tier 0, but that is only their technology, not their physical bodies. I agree they're not corrupted but instead I think they chose to become the flood and experience the universe without the mantle of responsibility, but instead to cause pain and contribute to the living universe. They wanted the Forerunners to fire the halos and kill everything as that contributed to their goals to. They are far more patient and intelligent than any other species, and I find it hard to believe that them becoming the flood was an accident.

[@chris-pw5ck]

"I agree they're not corrupted but instead I think they chose to become the flood and experience the universe without the mantle of responsibility, but instead to cause pain and contribute to the living universe." probably because they wanted some balance to the forerunners ultimate peace. they are the yin to the forerunners yang. now i finally got it... i think... lmao

[@TeamBOBBYEE]

This really added to another theory going around : The precursors so advanced as they are seed life , wait for it to grow , then eventually if the universe they create didn’t produce the outcome they wanted (new race for the mantle of responsibility) they just end up resetting (wether it be thru a Big Bang event or however they see fit , maybe every time They try another method for the experience ) So as the forerunners are slated for the mantle, they find out about how the precursors cycle and chose to rebel (win or lose the precursors are achieving the goal) Even tho they seemingly eradicate the precursors they really just reset them to a feral state , coming back as the flood as we know it . In the time that the precursors seeded life and the forerunners improved it, the flood came back to bring its twisted way of balance

[@andrew9371]

i think it was just all planned out the flood are just what the precursors look like when they eat the crops they planted thats the harvest like mass effect there are so many cycles in lore bsg mass effect and halo are all based on the concept of a endless cycle of death and rebirth its kinda getting old

[@DoktrDub]

I think the idea may be is that the mantle of responsibility is just a way to conserve the cattle for the devouring, when it is time.. the universe shall consume, and the cycle will go on

[@TellyBruuuh]

@@TeamBOBBYEE theyre like when you play god of an ant war outside. when one side is winning too much you flood the battlefield lol

[@Kurai_69420]

He showed them Cursed Halo 2

[@Iknowtoomuchable]

"Oh, god! The Scarab Gun shoots ACTUAL SCARABS!"

[@legionnaire5966]

@@Iknowtoomuchable Honestly that's a great gag, go tell Inferno that idea!

[@halolasomaster3900]

Halo 2 cursed idea on the mission gravemind on legendary instead of brutes you spawn in and are faced with Jackle snipers

[@chris-pw5ck]

cursed halo 2: jackal snipers have antiaim and triggerbot.

[@TheGhostbuster1989]

Oh God not Rule 34 of Chief and Arbiter.

[@SmileyBoi21]

"You see some mysteries defy understanding and sometimes the things we know are untrue..." - Cortana, Halo Legends Origins 2

[@definitelynotaweeb6879]

The Precursors be like: "I brought you into this universe, I can take you out of it"

[@centurymemes1208]

thats what a God is.. people always impose their own understanding towards it…

[@lyntonfleming]

Well, not quite-- "I brought you into this universe, I can make you one with it." would be a bit more accurate.

[@ldc9399]

“Resignation is my virtue, like water I ebb and flow, defeat is simply the addition of time, to a sentence that I never deserved but you imposed” It can’t be stopped you can only delay the inevitable and even then you are feeding the living universe sweetness before the inevitable comes

[@dianabarnett6886]

Such is life.

[@RandomGuy0400]

Your struggle is a story. It likes stories. Especially ones of bravery until the end, heroes fighting not because victory is assured, or even possible, but fighting on principle, fighting because that's what they do, fighting to ease the suffering of others, to bring hope in the darkness, because in their eyes, it's the right thing to do, comfortable in the knowledge that their death will delay others, if only temporarily, because that is enough, and there will be others. It likes to hear your stories; the longer, the better. But it's getting late, and some stories don't end today. You will tell it the ending on another day. Rest well, and make tomorrow interesting; it is not yet time for your story to end, and it wishes to hear more at the next sunset... Edit: Aaaand I've just realized I accidentally created an anti-suicide message... Nice

[@justin8241]

I wonder how many cycles the universe has been through before the forerunners came about? Did an other civilization or race in a different cycle find this out and try to stop them as well? One question answered two more arise.

[@jaimealvarado4421]

I would think so. We know the precursors originated from outside the Milky Way galaxy. It's possible that the model for their plan was perfected in many other galaxies many times before.

[@zubairnoor9535]

Okay so the living universe encompasses billions of galaxies and expanding its size faster than light. Based on this theory and other supporting lore, the cumulative intelligence of living universe is extreme and beyond human comprehension. Also any act of defiance and rebellion to this reality of harvesting experiences is onto itself a unique experience which living universe enjoys. It is as simple as following: "Forerunners attempt to destory the cycle was like memory of a small day dream to the living universe yet millions and billions of these small memories combined is what sweetness of life is all about." This is pretty disgusting and horrific to be honest

[@Gearhart7354]

@@zubairnoor9535 thats the equivalent of someone tell god whats right or wrong based on extreeeeeemly limited understand of anything

[@zubairnoor9535]

@@Gearhart7354 Right and Wrong from human perspective would be based upon individual or societal experience. I Remember hearing that there are cults within humans and covenants who worship the flood. So you have a point about the God thing. But from a human's perspective its a definite wrong. Because we like to have a best experience where our existence has a value which exceed all other existence. To us accepting that reality of being space cattle was not possible . The ancient humans couldn't reconcile between the obvious truth told by the primordial and uniqueness of human power of will, they ended up self-destructing.

[@Gearhart7354]

@@zubairnoor9535 true enough

[@darthsidious2505]

Holy shit how horrifying to think the forerunners were the bad guys when they weren’t, the halo universe was to grow,advanced with knowledge just to be raised as cattle lol because they gain pleasure from the pain and suffering for those they are consuming. Wow we really fell for that precursor propaganda

[@AceTheCap823]

yea assuming this theory is real and it very well could be....kinda fuccin crazy ngl

[@zebobez2715]

You know, these ideas are some of the things I saw during my own psychotic episodes. That we're all cattle whose experiences are food for higher beings. Realizing this is horrifying, but at the same time, enlightening.

[@FableWolfe]

I feel like I'm missing crucial context here. Did you meet the great Nyarlathotep at some point?

[@zebobez2715]

@@FableWolfe I met several beings who felt very lovecraftian. However, I do not know enough about Nyarlathotep specifically to know if it's one of the ones I saw.

[@peterb8904]

@@zebobez2715 it is almost impossible for you to know if you encountered Nyarlathotep unless it tells you directly

[@zebobez2715]

@@peterb8904 So I guess I didn't. Whatever it was I saw will remain a mystery.

[@phoenixjones7191]

@@zebobez2715 this thread sounds like a really, really bad dmt trip

[@furykillerBZ]

My old boss had the same set of beliefs as the precursors. He used it to justify how horribly he treated people, saying their spirit had 'chosen' to have an 'experience' in life where they were treated badly. I rejected it

[@JulietStMoon]

Did you ask him what it's like to be a living war crime?

[@furykillerBZ]

@@JulietStMoon I should have

[@flyingstonemon3564]

Is there a movement for this type of beliefs? Is It part of New Age wellness energy thingies

[@kylebroussard5952]

*The idea that the Precursors believed the universe was a living entity beyond our understanding is so cool* They literally create higher dimensional bridges through the living universe, in neural pathways. It's crazy cuz if you look at a map of the known universe, it looks identical to neurons in our brains. Neurons do what? Travel at almost light speed, in very thin pathways to hubs, through a universe of matter.

[@eragonbromsson1122]

So basically the Precursors/the Flood are the physical avatars of the Living Universe ?

[@pll3827]

So if we ever manage to kill the Precursors/the Flood, we would be killing the universe and dooming ourselves to oblivion?

[@lordofadmirals6348]

@@pll3827 exactly

[@danielandrews1801]

@@pll3827 Lol. No. The universe is immortal. Killing the Precursors won't kill the universe. The universe can just manifest more Precursors.

[@ur-didact1991]

@@danielandrews1801 if you can keep a body alive without its brain then obviously the universe can live without precursor

[@danielandrews1801]

@@ur-didact1991 How can you keep a body alive without a brain? Never heard of that... Brain death = true death.

[@hammer1349]

I suppose the thing is now with how much humanity and the sanghelli etc have learned of the flood, what can be done with this knowledge to stand against the flood. I think that is why cortana is running about doing all the things she is. She is trying to being an end to the cycle by starting a new one in which she can lead the fight against the flood as she had the most intimate knowledge of the parasite beyond the forerunners themselves

[@martyr_lightsilver1833]

This would be the perfect way to make a Cortana redemption arc.

[@UlisesMartinezMx]

Impeccable story telling, perfect voice tune for the darkness of the story, a theory that fills multiple loopholes... You have proven yourself worthy of the domain

[@NxthanWhite]

I like this extension of the idea. I always thought over the years it was quite obvious that the flood were just the precursors exacting revenge for being destroyed by the forerunners, not fully corrupted for being dormant as particles for so long. But when you remember that they were 0 on the tech scale they could have never really lost in an all out conflict. So the fact that there could be a deeper meaning to them purposely becoming the flood, almost cyclical in nature and that this could have been done before gives it a mass effect feel( in terms of the reapers) but also like other people have mentioned, the lovecraftian horror with its sentient universe side.

[@AlpineBishop]

"Humanity was seeded for the Universe. Grown, nurtured, like cattle, to feed the Universe. The Flood, Precursors, and Primoridals are all the same being, just different stages." Master Cheif: *Mjolnir theme earrape while flying across High Charity in thematic green energy*

[@jesusofbullets]

"Man in green armor pumps shotgun with malicious intent and flips the bird to the whole universe; quoted as too angry to die"

[@sorrenblitz805]

Halo Eternal confirmed soundtrack by Mick Gordon

[@slowfudgeballs9517]

@@jesusofbullets To be fair, The Master Chief killing/defeating the flood also probably enriches the universe. Which is why they are allowing it to happen.

[@noble3515]

@@slowfudgeballs9517 if you really think about it, the Master Chief is the second being to have destroyed the Flood. I also believe that the Master Chief is a literal Forerunner and basically the human equivalent of the Iso Didact.

[@sorrenblitz805]

@@noble3515 he's technically a reincarnation of the Iso-Didact. So he's as far as a the Forerunners (who had the ability to implant 'gene-songs' in the life they categorized) are concerned he IS the only person who's ever defeated the Flood. He isn't a forerunner technically but his existence was planned and put into motion by the Forerunners.

[@lelandmiller5965]

I've always wondered what would be so intense to hear that people would choose to end their life just by hearing it. If I heard this answer for the theory as one of those ancient humans, I think I would too.

[@phoenixjones7191]

I mean if you learned God created you literally just to consume your conscience and murder all the people you've ever held dear and loved in brutal and sadistic fashion, fuck em I'll shoot myself. You ain't getting my memories.

[@stanholmes7583]

The humans would literally be part of the living universe too. Part of itself raging against itself or pretending not to be it at all while masquerading as members of a species is equally idiotic in a way. Part of itself desiring to die or kill another part and brought to death or birth, raging against the existence of destruction of life to the extent that they'd throw away the creation of life utterly with it is not ok.

[@mariusionita266]

Really loving this lovecraftian approach of uncomprehensible, mind-shattering cosmic forces to Halo's lore. I really do hope it's explored further.

[@nicorozner7417]

Forerunners: I thought you died! Precursors coming back as the Flood: My death was... greatly exaggerated.

[@ImperatorCaesar1]

I hope 343 actually incorporates and uses the Precursors in future games and media. Lately they seem content to ignore the more interesting lore of the series. They way they have just written off The Ur-Didact is shameful.

[@nihilistpenguin7511]

Well the thing is most people aren’t lore fanatics and don’t care for the expanded universe. Part of the reason people were so pissed off about halo 5 is that you needed so much expanded universe knowledge to even understand what was happening.

[@Fyre0]

Hi, I'm from the near future when Halo Infinite is [WARNING, POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED HALO INFINITE YET] strongly suggesting some kind of connection between a new species and the precursors, that even the forerunners were hell-bent on silencing and imprisoning, partially due to the fact they were immune to the Halo Array (and maybe the flood?) as well as suggestions that they can tap into the Domain and manipulate time. If 343 do this right, there's about to be a shitton of Precursor lore to be put on display.

[@RazuX5]

@@nihilistpenguin7511 that argument goes hand to hand with people not caring about single player modes or story modes either (especially campaigns) what is the point of you playing the story if you don’t even care about the universe/lore in the first place?

[@nihilistpenguin7511]

@@RazuX5 People do care about the lore dude, most people don’t want to purchase a bunch of novels and other external media to understand so much. Most people are satisfied with what the game provides

[@felixtla93]

@@nihilistpenguin7511 really pathetic. I just want them to add lore tidbits and its up to the player whether they care or not

[@tuscan9617]

You just blew my mind... i actually stopped and my brain practically shut down. You have altered how i view the history of Halo forever.

[@BelowAverageJoe93]

"My future is your past think on it and know" is also a gravemind quote

[@josef4752]

Ah the first Primordial GraveMind, I wonder if we’ll see more of the GraveMind’s in the future. I imagine the Primordial told future humanity about the mantle of responsibility and that they were supposed to inherit it, then it told them about the forerunners and how they stole it from humanity maybe?

[@Installation00]

There absolutely is a flood tentacle in the slipspace engine demo. Down the well. I promise there is. I'll make a video on the possibilities of the flood in Halo Infinite

[@josef4752]

Installation00 Ah thank you sir I will definitely look for it when next I play it, and keep up the fantastic work sir you are by far one of my favourite Halo Lore channels out there.

[@Aidan-Moore]

@@Installation00 So I went to the trailer after reading this comment, and by gosh that is definitely a flood tentacle hiding itself from the light.

[@JustSpaceMan1]

@@Installation00 I went to a video that showed some of the demo,and it definitely looks like it.Oh boy,get your M90 shotgun, flamethrower,SPNKr rocket launcher,Scorpion tank,Johnson's Spartan Laser,a Magnum,and an Ma5 or Ma40 (is that the name of the assault rifle in the gameplay demo?),cause if it is the Flood,we're going to need some reliable firepower.

[@endlessein]

This was soo interesting and at the same time horrific to listen to. A very good theory that even gave me chills. Thank you sir!

[@AWolf-gq2vu]

I think I realized my favorite part of Halo 3. During the level “Cortana,” while you progress through the level, the Gravemind talks to you, trying to convince you to give up and allow yourself to be consumed by the Flood. First, it speaks calmly, speaking to you like an elder speaks to a unruly child, then, it slowly becomes more and more angry. Eventually, it’s thundering voice thunders in your ears, begging you to just quit and save everybody the trouble of trying to kill you. Chief is so incredible he can piss of the collective consciousness of trillions and the greatest creatures capable of manipulating the very fabrics of the universe.

[@kratkartan1486]

Gravemind is omnipotent because of what he is, so it is impossible to piss him off. However, the Chief managed it as he had found a way to out maneuver Gravemind's foresight, and it continued up until Chief activated Halo forcing Gravemind to admit a temporary defeat. Master Chief literally kicked the Universe's ass.

[@JacobTyler1776]

Well, if that consciousness is so amoral as to allow civilizations to grow and thirve only to devour them in the most horrific and painful way possible to slake it's insatiable lust for the "experience", I would totally expect it to throw temper tantrums when it doesn't get its way.

[@alexanderg1935]

There are two issues here. Firstly, according Halo: Primordium the precursors regarded the rebellion of the forerunners as a vile betrayal, rather than a pre-planned cycle (supposedly triggered by the precursors intention to pass the mantle to humanity). The anti- life organism known as the flood was the resulting god-complex; the precursors psychotically deciding that all sentient life should be nothing more than a reflection of themselves. Secondly, regarding 'the living universe'; the theoretical entity at the root of neural physics. It's not a god. There is one thing in our galaxy that can destroy precursor technology. From star roads to crystalline planets to the domain, even neural physics itself. Its name is *Halo*

[@alexanderg1935]

@Mr.Tweezy007 That's true. I was querying the narrative that the decimation of the precursors was itself a planned act. It's an intruiging concept, but has no canonical basis to it. Regardless, the Halo rings break the cycle.

[@ALWAYS_CABOOSE]

*FIRING THE HALO RINGS INTENSIFIES*

[@cainabel6356]

The Precursors are outside of the universe and time. I think they use they form bodies, but those bodies are avatars. They can not really die. Then the Forerunners betrayed them, because they Precursors wanted to give the "Title of Responsibility" to the humans, instead of the Forerunners. The Forerunners think they destroyed them, but instead they just destroyed their avatars. The Precursors just decided to form the Flood to test the Forerunners, seeing how they did defeat them; and to give the humans a final test that the Forerunners failed to beat.

[@primusstar5995]

But there is only one being that can destroy something as powerful as Halo... ( *one final effort begins* )

[@Kanerudo]

@@primusstar5995 Nah, it's not that difficult to destroy a Halo or shield world The whole “impossible to destroy“ thing was just a lie

[@thefatbeast6766]

I always thought the forerunners were we’re the true evil in the universe for turning on their creators and imposing imperial peace , this was mind bending the forerunners are the true saviours of all life and should hold the mantle !

[@Ghostvirus]

I really enjoyed this video. And definitely agree with some of the bigger picture ideas. Reminds me of some ideas Bungie explored in Marathon back in the day. Good job.

[@Andy_Enderson]

Someone needs to remake the marathon games

[@Ghostvirus]

​@@Andy_Enderson It might happen some day. Marathon Infinity was referenced in a filing with the copy right office last year. I think the demand for a new one will increase soon.

[@Andy_Enderson]

@@Ghostvirus one can hope but I can't help but to wonder who filed for the copyright

[@Ghostvirus]

@@Andy_Enderson It was referenced in relation to Bungie.

[@Andy_Enderson]

@@Ghostvirus hmm...maybe an attempt at a return to form for bungie? I'll remain cautiously optimistic for the time being.

[@3dpyromaniac560]

After infinite this rings more if you consider the endless as precursor... The endless could survive the array firing, were worse than the flood, could control time, were involved with the forerunner's ancient crimes The precursors existed in a cycle to feed the universe it's sweetness. They would seed, the seeded galaxy would evolve, they would evolve, they would harvest the sweetness, then begin again. Looping endlessly

[@TheSMR1969]

Anything after 3 isn't canon bro

[@navysealinguardiantank2679]

@@TheSMR1969it sadly is

[@animo9050]

@@TheSMR1969 343's lore is great, you must get off of your high horse and accept that your halo from over a decade ago is now in better hands, ones that are able to carefully write it's story in greater depth than bungie would have ever done.

[@TheSMR1969]

@@animo9050 troll

[@LordTelperion]

I like this theory. There is an old and beautiful concept that we (Mankind), being made of the stuff of the Universe, are in fact bits of the Universe that have broken off to become self-aware as a way for the Universe to experience itself. Like waves in the ocean, separate, but still connected to the greater whole.

[@fieldadmiralspartanryseb-8293]

Omg yes. I've been waiting for a video regarding this topic. This channel is has the best Halo Lore

[@ur-didact1991]

I never knew the halo would more dipper than any other sci Fi I ever seen, I just fall in love with it but never knew all of this, it's like this novels, this stories are binding yourself with it

[@glowaru]

What a mindblowing twist to the Halo universe, one that makes so much sense too. That was a blast to watch, thanks for your hard work as always.

[@whalehands]

I love this story so much that I can't tell you how many times I've watched this video and countless others on the precursors and primordial

[@John.S92]

The Forerunners didn't forget their history, it was hidden, the vast fleets of the forerunners who was tasked with completing their genocide of the precursors and stealing the 'mantle', they were all so ashamed and scarred by what they've done that those forerunners abandoned their fleets and settled down on a planet in that small satellite galaxy outside the Milky way galaxy. (as well, the Forerunners throughout the Halo lore has been shown to lie more often than telling the truth)

[@PBart7]

I like to imagine that the Precursors were actually once benevolent gods. But the Forerunners betrayal was a new concept to them, and this new feeling, "betrayal" drove the gods mad with anger and anguish, and uses their new form as the Flood as a way to exact the same suffering their children brought upon them. If God takes pleasure in your suffering, who do you pray to?

[@MrGanjie]

Powerful

[@mannys9130]

I love this comment. The last part there is why I believe in no god; he's either absent or nonexistent. Why would anyone pray to a "god" that looks upon such misery and suffering on Earth with apathy and lack of action?

[@truexenith8596]

@mannys9130 Amen. Or more accurately, not.

[@Ron.Swanson.]

mannys9130 humans have free will. That’s why suffering exists. However free will is also why we are able to have amazing experiences. God gave us free will because he didn’t want humans worshipping him like there was a gun to their heads. Just my two cents

[@foxunix101]

mannys9130. Without rain/sadness then sunshine and happiness mean nothing. If everyone was happy all the time then no one would be happy because there is no alternative. Life is precious because it can be lost. Read some Augustine as his philosophy explained it much better. Believe what you want just give it some more thought. Life is about balance.

[@benhooper1956]

Last Time I was this early, The Mantle hadn't been passed down at all

[@overtbias9305]

*Whispers* Pineapple belongs on pizza...

[@V1p3r65]

Truly the only thing that could've led its captors to suicide.

[@sidewinder1176]

*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* 😭🔫

[@isaachinds3736]

And you're damn right it does

[@sidewinder1176]

@@isaachinds3736 YOU SPEAK HERESY.

[@nickcalderon2637]

I legitimately think Pineapple belongs on Pizza.

[@LordTelperion]

Also reminds me of Babylon 5 (which in turn was influenced by E. E. "Doc" Smith and J.R.R Tolkien) in which ancient god-like races elevated the younger races of the Universe as their pawns and tools. Ultimately the younger races would find out about the nature of things and rebel against their gods to come into their own.

[@Bronasaxon]

True, but neither Vorlons or Shadows were this messed up. The Thirdspace aliens on the other hand were closer...

[@LordTelperion]

@@Bronasaxon Well...maybe, but the Shadows are pretty messed up. They were JMS's original Lovecraftian cosmic horror, with their Dark City, and invisible whisperings, and when you DID see them you basically always died screaming. The Thirdspace beings (and The Hand) were kinda a Shadow-esque ret-con as TNT wanted more TV movies and JMS thus needed other cosmic enemies.

[@Bronasaxon]

@@LordTelperion true, but for the Shadows, that was at least in large part to Vorlon genetic manipulation

[@leandercarey]

Interesting ideas... I'll have to think on then a while. A quick question would be: Could the 'created', the AIs who reach the domain like Cortana, actually be our defense against such a thing? We created Cortana to, in tandem with a hyper-evolved human, save humanity itself. To this end she was given the sum total of all human knowledge at that time. Subsequently she encounters the Flood. Then she is subjected to torment by the Flood. It's hypothesized she's been infected with a logic plague by the Flood. But she also had contact with Mendicant Bias, who was the greatest AI the Forerunners ever made, infected with the logic plague, then after 100,000 years found redemption and concluded it was wrong to turn on its creators. It could have passed everything it knew to Cortana. Cortana can also spawn copies of herself, essentially behaving like a technological version of the Flood. Now she's in touch with the domain. What she's doing could be shaping the way humanity and the other races behave and think to bring them to a point where they all can have a fighting chance against the Precursors/Flood. In much the same way Mass Effect took tens of thousands of 50,000 year cycles to get all life in the galaxy to a point where it could stop the Reapers, it may have taken millions of years of the Forerunners, humanity, the other races, and AI to get to a point where the combined potential of all sentient life could have a mathematically nonzero chance of prevailing. It may very well take hundreds, thousands, even millions of years to think through a problem of that scope. If the Precursors are on such a different level, how long would it take all the combined sapient resources of the galaxy to come up with a strategy to fight them? The end result may be evolving into a hybrid natural/synthetic existence to facilitate the interface of all the necessary components to combat OUR creators, the way our CREATED have fought us. Just a thought... or a whole series of thoughts...

[@phonewithoutquestion80]

Funny how the Primordial is like a mirror opposite retelling of the W'rkncacnter from Marathon.

[@Ghostvirus]

There are definitely more similarities than you might notice at first glance. Oddly this is familiar to you, like a different game franchise you played once, but you can't exactly remember..

[@ToddTheHappyContestGoat]

"Somewhere in the heavens, they are waiting"

[@foamyzvideos2617]

I would have preferred some help from Durandal..cortana is nice to look at..but an AI taking over ships and dropping asteroids..now thats backup.

[@TheVirtualObserver]

That would actually make a ton of sense. Given how Bungie loved referencing their Marathon (i.e. SPNKR rockets, green-armored space marine, AI rampancy) series in Halo, it would make sense for 343i (which is made up in part by some Bungie vets) to continue this tradition.

[@Birdlegs821]

Does this mean that the Gravemind was using the domain to communicate with Chief during Halo 3

[@hououinkyoma1662]

yup

[@tobiasneethling8871]

He also very briefly kills him each time the screen does that thing.

[@anthonysantacruz8967]

Possibly. But remember Cortana on Halo 5. She said she found the Domain. So it's a physical object that relies on nueral physics like Flood/Precursors. Cortana found it but how. She got blewed up in 4. So... It's part physical, part metaphysical??

[@tobiasneethling8871]

@@anthonysantacruz8967cortana found it bc the red and black spinning void is a slipspace portal and the wreckage of the mantles approach got sucked in.

[@anthonysantacruz8967]

@@tobiasneethling8871 hello thanks for replying. You talking about the end of Halo 4? Where the Didact falls off the hard light bridge to the control room of the mantle approach? I thought that spinning red energy was the Composer emission energy. I know in the comics he is somehow transported to another Forerunner installation, then blue team fights and composes the Didact. So if that portal of transportation that conveniently rested above a Composer beam pointed at Earth she blows up, but not before saving John, telling him goodbye, fading into nothingness, then gets transported to the Domain? Why the hell didn't the Didact go there? Because he's not an AI? It seems Halo 4 tried integrating novel writing with Halo 4. They fucked up... Because Cortana in Halo 4 refers to it as a Forerunner construct. It has a composed Forerunner operating, it was used extensively by the Forerunners but it was a Precursor nueral physics suppository that survived the firing of the ring because it was buried deep in Maythrillium.

[@AstraL1zard]

Love Halo, a fan since 2001. The lore is rich and expansive and it’s kinda like Warhammer 40k, but nerfed

[@phoenixjones7191]

Id just kill myself if I live in 40k. Halo at least has an illusion of hope, even if humanity is ruled by tyrants and corporations.

[@thewretchedpleb7484]

Not sure which would be worse... Captured by ONI or captured by the emperor's holy Inquisition. At least you're allowed to have opinions in the Halo universe.

[@AstraL1zard]

phoenix jones Lol, the real charm of 40k is how ridiculously fucked the 40k universe is

[@leobezard5998]

me: hears this video result: seeks the nearest cliff

[@mikeyunovapix7181]

If this turns out to be true then I would love for the halo universe to have this underlying element of cosmic horror.

[@veila0924]

I mean it's always been cosmic horror, this just makes it lovecraftian cosmic horror.

[@mysticalseapotato8303]

If the idea that the precursors/flood are just tiny, tiny parts of the living universe is correct, then that would mean the universe would be malevolent. It would have a net loss on “sweetness” once everything goes extinct in one giant massive war. That would imply that it wanted a massive surge of the sweetness at once even though having a constant war like galaxy would have more total sweetness. This would also imply that the universe is extremely patient and would wait many millions of years for another flood of sweetness. No pun intended. Although, that would be assuming that the rest of the universe isn’t being farmed for it. My personal opinion is that the universe overall doesn’t care, so that’s why the precursors didn’t go against the natural order of survival of the fittest. I still think that the flood is corrupt version of the precursors, they are just going after the momentary great amount of sweetness instead of the maintainable slow income. Basically the flood are junkies while precursors do it in moderation.

[@DampSeagull9166]

Nah bruh precursors be sayin they can stop whenever they want😂

[@Fyre0]

Universe/Flood: Ey mannnn you got any crack??? I'll take your whole stock, mannn

[@scottgrasser9475]

there are lots of galaxys ours is but one in uncountable numbers even if each galaxy took a billion years to get ready each time the universe would at all times have trillions of galaxys being harvested

[@AlexandeRSciswoR]

That was so creepy ngl, and sad, and terrifying, what a masterpiece of a video.

[@A-Legitimate-Salvage]

Wow, this really casts Halo’s deep lore in a whole new light. The Forerunner trilogy and Reclaimer Saga have conditioned us to see the Forerunners as the ‘real’ big bads of the Halo universe, but this completely shakes that up...

[@thecircleoft.e.d2121]

That is a really good theory; reinforces the Precursors being described as “lovecraftian” as they’re much more horrifying in this revelation.

[@mikemoore2791]

I found myself standing at the wndow, staring at the sky whilst listening to this. I know its fiction, but, wow. I had a moment.

[@mxm23adregalusandmore62]

Now this was a plot twist i wasn't expecting at all

[@crimsonquill4255]

If this is true, then we of the galaxy have one choice ... We must become the monument against the precursors. A monument to all their sins. Only then, may we hope to survive their nightmare of the living universe.

[@D00dman]

What does this even mean tho?

[@paulohenriqueferreiradealm1893]

@@D00dman I think it is kind of a rephrasing of something the Gravemind said.

[@crimsonquill4255]

@@D00dman If you're asking what the phrase 'I am a monument to all your sins' means, then I thiink that, when he is saying it, the Gravemind means that he is a monument to the sins of the Forerunners that humanity and the other races have inherited. If you are asking what my comment, means, it boils down to this: I hope that every race in the galaxy can eventually unite and wipe out all traces of the Precursors once and for all, basically saying 'Screw you' to the Primordial. Or, as Discworld put it, 'All gods are bastards'.

[@annmaryjohn3258]

@@crimsonquill4255 As long as the universe exists, the Precursors will exist.

[@truexenith8596]

Advance to a state where it’s possible to form an effective resistance to the Universe and thrive.

[@Eklipse758]

This was such a deep, beautiful dive. I really appreciate this video.

[@lolgoteem5372]

Jesus your voice is so relaxing, you told me about universal horror and I nearly fell asleep

[@fishwishpishpish9165]

Mate that intro with the different parts of the video popping in at once in time with the music 👌

[@RantRadio]

So the real question raised is: Who or What did The Precursors/Flood assimilate before arriving in the milky way Billions of years ago? I almost done a ancient human listening to this yo. Those Gat Damn liars. Free Didact.

[@ur-didact1991]

They existed before the whole universe

[@rsg1506]

Wow... That actually made a ton of disturbing sense. you know... thank you, I was wondering for so freaking long (I'll keep it family friendly ;) ) what that answer might've been and I'm not joking, and this theory finally laid that thought to rest in a creepily disturbing way... But still Love your channel and content and I can't wait what you and the community (and in turn my interpretation of some things are, but that's the fun part, right?) come up with once halo infinite is released. looking forward to your next lore, detailed breakdown or theory video.

[@AD-xg5zy]

well put!

[@cameroncashatt692]

I would love it if you did a episode on the Huragok(engineer).

[@acardenasjr1340]

I’m just happy that the Precursors are finally being revealed for sometime now. I have friends who love Halo but are ignorant of the past in that universe.

[@Gabrocol]

The Halo Array makes so much more sense with this theory. The array was designed to "starve the flood of their food", but what does that mean? The flood can just keep eating all the non sentient life, left after the halo firings, to gain bio-mass. And the flood weren't even eliminated after the array firing (they appear in the halo games). This theory implies that to "stare the flood of their food" actually means to starve the living universe of emotions and experiences (the 'food') of their created. By starving the flood and eliminating all sentient live in the galaxy, it stops the process of Living universe (precursors) to created beings to flood, and so on as there is no new emotions and experiences being created. This theory really makes the forerunners look more noble then the later games portrayed them as.