The Pro Cycling Arms Race Nobody Is Talking About | GCN Show Ep. 617

[@gcn]

Were you aware of this pro cycling "arms race"? 😳 What do you think about it? Get involved down below! 👇

[@Mike-rm1lb]

More like a legs race.

[@perjensen1962]

Is there a chance that the UCI could follow FIA (F1) and set a limit on team budgets and prices of bikes to keep the bikes truly affordable for the public and level the possibility of success for more teams without stopping the development progress on a more even playing field? Keep up the good work.

[@LegSpinna]

Trying to justify the ridiculous cost of bikes by comparing them to cars? Top drawer 'whataboutery'.

[@Nearly-at-the-top]

9.51 The idea of Dan going for a run wearing just a pair of shoes is somewhat disturbing 😱

[@feedbackzaloop]

Can't call it arms race as the roles of people in question are rather shoulders. You know, the bearers and supporters.

[@andrewmckenzie3661]

The only time the cost of expensive bikes affects you is if you buy one. I compete relatively competitively as an age grouper on a 15 year old bike I paid $635NZD for. I've done a few of the cheap upgrades Ollie describes in his budget TT build vids. Every race there are people who beat me on more expensive equipment but they probably train harder and/or have more talent than me, and there are always alot of people behind me on bikes that cost 15x what I paid. I love my bike, it fits me and its fast, and i get great satisfaction out of going fast on a budget. My son is getting into racing now and struggled with an old mountain bike in triathlons for a few years before I found him quite a nice road bike for $90NZD it needed a good service to work properly which I did myself after watching some gcn vids. Its a 10 speed like mine so he can use my race wheels (alloy rims with gp5000 tyres) for races, he loves it and also beats lots of kids with much more expensive bikes now. Humans are funny, we get jealous of what others have but not how they got it, We like nice things but its mostly consumerism really. We're not poor and could buy more expensive bikes but I find it hard to justify because I really don't think we'd be any faster and I'd rather my competitors were jealous of my FTP than my bike.

[@jedisdad2265]

I always say the same thing. The ONLY time a bike price impacts anyone is when they actually purchase a bike. How much one spends is a personal choice.

[@aveedub7403]

I agree with you that a cap should be placed on equipment used by juniors when competing! My reasoning being that when I was in my cycling prime in the very late 1970's mid 1980's I was "competing" against youngsters that had the best, tubs, wheels, frames etc and were ferried from one event to another by car, whereas I had to cycle up to 20+ miles to start line then cycle back. There was no way I could compete despite my divorced mother trying to buy me the best;, think Peugeot, 501 frame and steel forks for example. Nor was I able to initially buy the right shoes/ clothes. However, despite the adversity I still competed with respectable times and look back with fondness; one of those times, freezing to death on a Dulwich Paragon Xmas 25 in shorts and a top I'd cobbled together. There is an arms race in cycling begining, much like F1, the fact that Red Bull is now a main sponsor will merely fan the flames for "World Domination" and could potentially be to the detriment of cycling, but it may also be the beginning of a renaissance? Let's see!

[@richardharris8538]

Back in the early 1960s we all road frames with Reynold's 531 double-butted tubes, and sprints and tubs. There probably wasn't much speed advantage between the best and cheapest components. The common refrain was, "It's the man, not the bike". I remember riding from Bournemouth to Salisbury or Southampton in the early hours of Sunday mornings to ride TTs. Then joining the club run to a country pub to eat my sandwiches and drink a few pints of beer or scrumpy. I miss those days.

[@mfergie1817]

From a Torontonian cyclist: I doubt you would get an intelligent debate with Doug Ford.

[@ECTproCycling]

Shen -an - doh Ah!!!

[@adamjones5261]

Zwift workouts- the Gorby. I spend all day getting worked up that I have to do it. Then a real sense of achievement for getting through it.

[@russford2802]

In the early days of Kart racing one of the most competitive groups enforced a rule whereby any racer in the race could purchase any other competitors Kart for a fixed sum. This meant that no-one spent over the odds on the Kart in terms of upgrades as you could be forced to sell the Kart at the end of the race. This ensured the Kart's were ~99% similar and therefor the winner won mostly on ability with a bit of luck thrown in. It stopped over spends and the ever increasing issue of the winners weren't necessarily the best Karter's but the ones with the deepest pockets. It was very successful for many years and had top notch racing.

[@irfuel]

There was another race category that did the same with cars. I just can't remember it right now, but it's a lot more recent, somewhere around 2010 if I recall correctly. Let me see if I can find it back.

[@irfuel]

Found it. 24h Lemons in the US :)

[@dfargey]

Good luck having an intelligent conversation with Doug Ford!

[@richshaffer7285]

Shenandoah (sheh-nhun-dow-uh), we're Americans, you have to put the "uh" at the end.

[@reecedawson6113]

I went to a local crit last week in the UK and the one if the juniors turned up on a £8000 Scott foil, things have changed since I started racing 😂

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

Who is paying for these kid’s bikes? 🤷‍♂️

[@fredrikwergelandsongstad4095]

​@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 parents mostly but some have part time Jobs/sommerjobb to pay for it like myself

[@calvinhorner2734]

@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255if they are really talented they might already have sponsors even if it’s not a big company I know junior cyclists that get to race high end bikes through support from local bike shops

[@Morhaw]

@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255to succeed in most sports these days you need to be from an upper middle class background. Football is one of the last sports where the top athletes are from predominantly working class backgrounds

[@elizabethpoley6882]

In LA, if you left your "lorry" in a significant bike lane for an extended period of time, no one is going to scream at you for 1/2 hr....you'd probably simply come out to find your tires slashed! (I guess the reasoning is: Makes your point, but uses less energy.)

[@dctruckguy]

If I left my Lori out in a bike lane she'd be yelling forever

[@dctruckguy]

My cousin Lorraine stopped by the Gcn headquarters yesterday, and you even took a photo. Thanks

[@kidShibuya]

Living in Tokyo for almost 10 years now, in terms of stats I don't know what is considered an "incident", but I know there are up to 3 pedestrian deaths per year due to cyclists, and around 3 per day from cars. You also need to know that a user walking while looking at their phone and walking into a cyclist is always by law the cyclists fault. You can literally walk into a parked bicycle and its the cyclists fault. So how many of these "incidents" can be avoided by the cyclist no matter how much attention they are paying is debatable. Also traffic deaths by cars are increasing year on year for the first time in 8 years. But that's fine, its cars, get those cyclists.

[@Stirling1989]

#captioncompetition What a shock - Roglic on the floor again

[@Mike-rm1lb]

Schadenfreude?

[@tabishop3]

#captioncompetition No matter the sport, Cavendish always drops his rivals.

[@kimwrinkle100]

“Mo-vember” in full effect for Si and Dan… 😂

[@CoolGrey7Man]

Talking about cycling manufacturers cutting down their carbon footprint: Polyester is an oil (petroleum) byproduct. Lots of best quality cycling kits at made from polyester. enuf said!

[@Katcycle]

How about this for an idea? Don't ban carbon in junior/amateur/lower tier races, but the bike must be below a certain price - frame + components. Each tier could have a different cap. That way, riders would not be buying so much high end expensive equipment, then manufacturers might reduce the prices of the higher end equipment, to try to sell more of it. Would this work, and would it be a good thing?

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

Aluminium League. All racers must be on alloy frames.

[@irfuel]

And who is going to determine the price of goods? It will require you to buy all stuff at the same shop, because you can have up to 40% differences in price otherwise.

[@burgels]

#captioncompetition Cav always loves to say Hi-Yah to his fans whenever possible.

[@christianwirth6965]

zwift workouts: The Gorby Extreme and The McCarthy Special. If you can finish the gorby extreme you're FTP cannot be set correctly - or at least that's what I'm telling myself :')

[@peterthomas8053]

How spooky is that? Both Si & Dan got up late this morning, and neither of them had time to shave.🤪😉😂

[@CoachJimJacobsen]

Hello all! I'm uncertain where to ask this, so here goes. Are there not going to be any more GCN Training videos? I like them, and have looked forward to them since I have a "dumb" indoor riding setup. I particularly enjoyed the 55 minute Passo Giau POV one that Emma and Hank did.

[@DanielGauss]

Caption: Cav mesmerizes the skeptical Japanese audience with his favorite story about how he landed that big Marlin off the isle of Man coast

[@ChrisCapoccia]

For most bike equipment, there are several top tier brands with excellent equipment, and I'd be surprised if variety between top tier equipment was able to change anything about races

[@TheTrev53]

Took my daughter to Belgium to race the National Kermesse series last year with top 10’s and top 5’s all travelling from Norfolk in a 16 year old Vauxhall Vivaro and then spending nights sleeping in said van in park ups we could find as we had a very small budget, partially funded by me and mum and my daughters part-time job. Other British girls/women, who could afford to were spending weeks if not months in Belgium, plus the occasional training camp to warmer climes which can’t be funded by themselves or their teams which means it must be family investment

[@vancelray]

You both butchered "Shenandoah"

[@fritsgerms3565]

A good kit is not that expensive. It's when people want the pro stuff that it gets expensive quickly. And that 2-5% advantage means little for age groupers where losing 2kg has the same effect as a ridiculously expensive bike. I'm pretty sure that mvdp, pidcock,van aert, pogi and co, will still win with less expensive bikes.

[@erlendsteren9466]

I reacon Pogacar would beat me if I rode his bike and he rode the three wheel bike I had as a kid.

[@gregsmith5571]

I love it when you both read the same line 😂

[@PaulaCrisp]

Ha! I just "backed" the kickstarter to recieve 2 sets of the tire pressure sensors... but for my mountain bike and eMTB.

[@ltrtg13]

When Dan said "what should we come back as, coaches?" May me think coach drivers more like.

[@brianrichardson5310]

The podium picture at 0:10 - got to be in a caption competition.

[@StanleyRestall]

Shouldn't it be the Pro- Cycling Legs race ?

[@reecedawson6113]

I've got a good workout my coach asked me to do every now and then, it's called the power hour 😅. An hour at sub threshold and then every 2 minutes it's a 20 second over/under geared effort

[@SofiaLöf]

Caption: Cavendish -"Not the ankles! NOT THE ANKLES!"

[@JNUAKPete]

#captioncompetion After conquering cycling Cavendish looks to channel his inner Seagal in order to conquer Hollywood.

[@cb6866]

Thanks Si , Dan and Isaac , Parlees are amazing ! Did Dr O have any smoky rides ? Lots of wildfires here recently . Be well

[@josephgreer8819]

#captioncompetition Cavendish is training to star in the next Karate Kid movie: The Karate Kid - Cycle On, Cycle Off

[@Teeve01]

Zwift workout.. the grind finale!

[@elizabethpoley6882]

Now we know how Mark Cavendish got so good at the Bike Throw!

[@AaronI-wz4ok]

Caption Competition- Cav anything for the win.

[@NimrodGilAd]

If the sweat band is causing excess heat - that's a win-win: Heat training!

[@fredrikwergelandsongstad4095]

Why not powermeter? Mostly use those for training...

[@whatwelearned]

The Wringer on Zwift is commonly known as the hardest one, and I agree with the idea that it isn't really possible if you're not cheating the system/yourself

[@mpyka91]

@captioncompetition Both of his disciplines manage to incorporate "wax on, wax off"

[@guitsynthcw]

I saw an e-cargo bike in Amsterdam with six young kids in the front bucket. Bench on either side with three kids on each.

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

just had a message from Rouvy. There is a group ride this Thursday 6pm with Andrew Feather on Alpe d' Huez (UK time). Now the problem that I have is that I signed up to a race on this exact same route with a 7.05 pm start. so literally just over an hour for the first attempt then a few mins off to grab a snack, pee, get drinks and then start again. Help!!!!

[@erlendsteren9466]

Did you go fast? And did you have the option to choose a virtual rimbrake-bike?

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

@erlendsteren9466 Thursday hasn't happened yet. Pretty sure that my absolute max effort will still be slower than Andrew just using one leg to pedal whilst clipping the toenails of his other foot

[@JustMikeH]

My knowledge here is limited and dated, but I seem to recall certain car rally-racing categories requiring the car used to be available for purchase, have sold [?] number of cars, and be stock with exception to specific race-safety changes (roll cage, etc). This makes that category accessible by anyone who could afford a car. and make the required safety modifications. Is there any such requirements anywhere in bicycle racing? Example would be your bike has to be a commodity bike and you can only modify seat, stem, handlebars, cranks, and pedals. (ie - fit items)

[@noptimized]

#CaptionCompetition: "No, I'm not 'just happy to see you.' My Hakama pants are set up tubeless."

[@donaldrieger381]

#Captioncompetition:"I told you I had the most powerful kick in cycling"

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

caption: Cav gets stuck with an after-market aero clothing sponsor from Temu

[@itsianwood]

Boy, boys, boys,... a lot of silliness here.

[@billmccaffrey1977]

Cycling needs to put a cap on spending (like many sports) to keep all of the teams competitive. Deep packets will always have an unfair advantage if left unchecked.

[@irfaank3909]

Caption of the week: cavendish preparing to fight pogacer for beating his record.

[@JoBikes1976]

Zwift workouts: Circus (part of the 12 week Build Me Up training plan is just BRUTAL... having completed the entire plan and getting full stars on every other workout I just couldn't hold those big numbers for love nor money 🥵 😭

[@johnkinder9041]

On the arms race, hasn't it always been this way. There are always those who can afford better than others and that's not going to stop anytime soon.

[@rangersmith4652]

The most relevant arms race in pro cycling is between the dopers and the dope detectors, with doping deniers and selective enforcers as major players.

[@danieldugal4057]

Anaerobic capacity into VO2Max workout in the 30 to 60 minutes to burn folder.

[@SnowDog80]

#captioncompetition *two seconds later* “Looks like Mark Cavendish has been dropped, and I don’t think he’ll have the legs to recover…”

[@noviceofthelaw]

There is zero chance of having an intelligent debate with Doug Ford.

[@zwiftgalaxyhunt]

Zwift: 100% the wringer for a horrible workout!!!

[@johnrodgers6049]

There should be race categories according to bike age.

[@wwcyclery]

👉👉For ALL riders under 18. They should only be allowed to use "Under 18" equipment. "Similar" to Japan's keirin NSJ equipment restrictions. Many years ago, when carbon tube frames first became available. I saw two Midget (8 to 12 years old) riders on Exxon Graftek (24-inch) bikes. They were ONLY available to an Exxon Graftek executive. FAIR????

[@charlesreza]

I can confirm sweatbands really work on a turbo trainer

[@ianjlilly]

Yep! I used head and wrist bands on my turbo in 90s. They stopped a lot of sweat from getting onto my bike and floor.

[@frazergoodwin4945]

A remark about the caption competition winner comments - you guys need to stop "bashing the Bishop" ! 😂

[@radeviq]

In the mountain bike world the YT enduro and dh team have the option to run whatever parts the athletes want on their bikes and they can experiment with tyres, suspension etc. I guess individual riders can have individual sponsorships with brands and earn more money.

[@AndrewErickson-dj6ie]

If you're feeling particularly ambitious, knock off The McCarthy Special or The Gorby on Zwift

[@ltrtg13]

I can get away with not riding fast. Unlike what Dan said about GCN viewer riding fast. I just ride my hardtain mountain bike with 150mm forks, 29x2.6 knobbly tyre blown up to 21psi front and 26psi rear. Or I ride my 160mm rear/170mm front enduro bike with 29x2.5 front/29x2.4 rear blown up to 21psi front and 24psi rear. That is of course if I don't have my 27.5x2.4 rear blown up to 24psi in the rear of my enduro bike.

[@neilmdon]

Caption: do i have to do this 34 more times?!

[@frantzs1077]

There are SKS Airspy sensors readily available for 79eur. I don't see the point of Kickstarter. How is that much more then 79usd??? 16:35

[@irfuel]

These are less visible.

[@WaechterDerNacht]

I can already see Dan leaving to a pro team in 4 years for 250 grand/year to do team radio... ^^

[@Sbobbo09]

I'm an Italian 15 year old boy and I would really like to start cycling in a team. Can someone tell me the pros and cons of doing this sport, and if my family and I need to buy all the gear and bike? Thank you.

[@RyonBeachner]

Assuming you “make it” you’ll be paid like absolute garbage relative to the amount of hours work you’ll be doing, and sacrifices you’ll need to make in your social life. Unless you end up being one of the 10-20 best in the world, it’s probably one of the worst sports to seek as a career.

[@Sbobbo09]

@RyonBeachner why's that? Isn't it incoherent for the kind of sport that it is?

[@RyonBeachner]

@@Sbobbo09 Pros are regularly on the bike for 20+ hours a week in training (which, is far more dangerous than practicing for football, baseball, basketball etc), plus their race schedule, which will also require substantial traveling. UCI World Tour minimum wage is ~50,000€, which, is likely what you’ll start at after 5-10 years of making less than that. Compare that to most any other sport, and the cost benefit is horrendous for everyone except the superstars of the sport. On top of that, you’re unlikely to even be in a position within the team to get results for yourself, as you’d most likely be a domestique, which would make it even more difficult to climb up the pay scale. Why is that all the case? Because the sport’s promotional structure is broken, and the teams budgets (outside 3-5 big ones) is seriously lacking compared to any big ‘mainstream’ sport.

[@erlendsteren9466]

@@Sbobbo09 Many sports are very much work for no or little money unless you become top 50 in the world, Cycling and cross country skiing are examples. absolute monstertalents with enourmous capasity are struggling to buy enough food. Football is better. If you are top 100 in Italy you will be paid well. Maybe its enough to be top 1000 footballplayer in Italy to make a decent living. But the worst about cykling is the risk of death and injury,

[@Sbobbo09]

@@erlendsteren9466 Not liking football I think that I would be the worst person for that lol. Though I believe that getting through difficult moments is something that belongs to me, and that's why I'm currently playing tennis and I would like to start cycling.

[@peterthomas8053]

On the subject of Pro Race rules v Amateur Race rules. How about, in non Pro Race' rules, Group classes. i.e. Group 1 = carbon, power meters, latest tech., etc. Group 2 = alloy, mech groupset, non carbon wheels, etc. Group 3 = retro/vintage etc., etc., etc. They have this sort of group classes in motorsport, and it seems to work.🤔

[@emmabird9745]

So much of the good things in life are exclusively for the rich, so I agree with Dan that juniors at least should be limited to basic equipment so that it can be more inclusive. I could ride 10 miles in 20 minutes, Si, if I could just find a hill long enough!

[@robertchung4914]

I think there's been a democratization of technological knowledge that makes it more accessible and less costly.

[@thetechdog1951]

#captioncompetition "Anywhere but the Calves!"

[@mbatley]

The conversation needs to be about the economics simply "buying wins." Either a budget cap, or salary cap, or a luxury tax, need to be put in place, or this will just become a billionaire's or sovereign country's sport.

[@kokonanana1]

Carbon footprint? How about the CO2 expelled by all the world tour riders (30 per team) in a season of training and racing? Team cars? Team buses? I expect that these sources far exceed the manufacture of the bikes!

[@anthonybennett6089]

Pro cycling would be a lot more entertaining if they did away with power meters and radio comms. Riders should race on feel and not have a computer telling them exactly what watts to push.

[@Video_Storyteller]

#captioncompetition Mark Cavindish completes initiation for his next career, Keirin Racing in Japan. Place your bets!

[@jeffreywilliams3646]

Dan hasn't had a beer for 6 weeks? What was his go-to beer while he was drinking? I may need to dump some stock.

[@billmccaffrey1977]

I have to laugh at cities control over bike lanes. My observation is that my local city, Austin, is proud to put in loads of bikes lanes where no one has reason to ride outside of a few urban locals. This let's them brag on putting in bikes lanes - only if they went some where.

[@mick6ful]

the Gorby

[@TheTrev53]

If you want top alcohol free beer that tastes like beer, get over to Belgium. Try the Rouge fruit beers. “Heaven”

[@whitfaulconer88]

There's your answer to the high costs of bikes on the market at least at the very top end, the UCI rule that stuff must be available to consumers. A consistently, predictably pointless rule from UCI that does just as much or more harm than good. It's not the brands that don't know the market..

[@9090Glenn]

BEST DOPE

[@MarcoP70]

Morning chaps! Morning in Australia that is.

[@gcn]

Morning

[@scottbradbury4094]

Shen-An-Do-Ah

[@adadinthelifeofacyclist]

#captioncompetition Cav rolls another one

[@declanfaughey8471]

#Captioncompetition " You heard of air guitar now it's time for air swords it is known as the Manx missile.

[@pablomorales4088]

2:50 and that's why we see such nosense of a full disk brake bike competing in a hill climb.

[@Big_Island_Boi]

I find it kind of interesting that the UCi is so far up everyone's ass about stupid shit like the weight of a bike or the specific positions you can use while descending... but they aren't doing anything to equalize the playing field in terms of BUDGETS. Because clearly a team with more MONEY is a team with a clear advantage over other teams... MUCH more so than a team that has a bike that weighs .5 kilos less than the other teams' bikes. In American pro sports--specifically football--teams have "salary caps" to try to prevent richer, more successful teams--or teams in bigger markets--from easily "buying up" all of the best talent in the sport. Look at the Jumbo Visma team in recent years... which has many of the top riders in the sport... Jonas, Wout, Sepp, Primoz, Olaf, Christophe, etc. It took the greatest rider of this generation--and some big egos--to break that Jumbo stranglehold this year.

[@erlendsteren9466]

I dont think the economic race will be the largest factor deciding which kid will get pro-contract, except for that the family must be strong enough to support the kid competing and training. The best kid easily will show true talent on a kilo heavier bike than his richer competitors with professional trainers. I think family makes a much larger difference than economy. We see in many sports how much family is important. In Norway there was a professional footballer, Alf Inge Haaland that married a superstrong sprinter. Their son Erling became the best Norwegian footballer of all time. In cycling the brother of Alexander Kristoff, the son of Vegard Nordhagen and the son of Rune Høydal are going very fast.

[@aidenmurphy330]

The McCarthy Special, easily the worst training available on zwift

[@johnrodgers6049]

Shan-nan-doe-a

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

The equipment arms race has ruined amateur cycling in the UK and Ireland. It’s not enough to be a better athlete than the guy next to you. He buys a faster bike. You buy a faster bike the next year, then he outdoes you with faster wheels. This childish arms race has left many people throwing up their hands in frustration and walking away from the nonsense. That’s one of the main reasons cycle racing is on its knees. That and the costs of participation.

[@GalaxyHornick]

Why would you doubt that 95% of cyclists don't ride fast? You have to draw a line somewhere. The fastest 5% are fast. The other 95% are not fast. It's just math. :)

[@johnstrac]

Just fo Si, Bruce's version. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHysZpJ_h7uYeq8

[@space.youtube]

"...no carbon fibre..." ??? Arbitrarily banning a material will do nothing to address the exorbitant price of competitive race bikes. It'll just create a new marketing opportunity for manufacturers to justify price gouging "optimised alloy race bikes" for prices that far exceed that of once entry/mid level carbon bikes. AND what will happen to the sales of top tier carbon bike if one of their largest demographics, the competitive non pro bike racer can no longer use them for their intended use, bike racing? Yeah nah, not sure you thought that one through.

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

The equipment arms race has ruined amateur cycling in the UK and Ireland. It’s not enough to be a better athlete than the guy next to you. He buys a faster bike. You buy a faster bike the next year, then he outdoes you with faster wheels. This childish arms race has left many people throwing up their hands in frustration and walking away from the nonsense. That’s one of the main reasons cycle racing is on its knees. That and the costs of participation. 🤷‍♂

[@burgels]

It's pronounced "Shen-In-Doe-Uh"