What Can We Do About Skyrocketing Bike Prices? | GCN Show Ep. 615

[@gcn]

What do you think and what would you say the answer is? 💸

[@oplkfdhgk]

need to reduce the amount of models.

[@large8123]

I bought second hand, replacing my 15yo Trek. managed to get a great deal on a 1 year old manufacturer serviced bike with 105 Di2 for less than half the list price. Theres absolutely no way I could justify buying new at todays prices.

[@Alfadrottning86]

In the end ... the customer has the power to just say "no, i wont buy it!" .. but that requires the customer to be honest to himself and reflect on his actual needs .. vs. his desires. It is ... after all .. like the smartphone game. Every year .. customers are suggested to NEED the new, but oddly identical slab of glass and metal. Meanwhile .. 99% of the people who commit to this ... lets call it a scam ... do nothing with their item that they could not do the very same way .. on their 5 year old phone. If cyclists were honest to themselves (that is hobby cyclists or amateurs) .. i doubt they need the latest stuff at all. It wont significantly improve their power or timings. If they DO get the latest stuff .. they WILL swear that it does make a difference of course .. it is buyers remorse - no one wants to buy a 10k bike and admit that .. oh, actually, nothing changed. So by and large .. its up to the customers to show restraint. Force the retailers and manufacturers to either lower prices and have slimmer profit margins, innovate better manufacturing and logistics to allow better profit margins .. or go bust. The risk for customers might well be .. that some good and innovative brands will go bust and vanish .. because not everyone is capable to optimize their manufacturing.

[@iacobogallus2110]

Go to decathlon and get good bike for 1k

[@olePT]

I would suggest looking at the second hand market. Bought my first carbon bike (2022 Orbea Orca) with carbon wheels, integrated cockpit and electronic SRAM shifting for about 2400€ (service included).

[@SmartMaterial]

Don’t buy them.

[@butchroberts8719]

Was gonna say just that 👍🏼

[@timdowney6721]

Exactly.

[@pwang01]

​@@timdowney6721buyers strike

[@karlspencer9995]

💯 the correct answer. They mainly charge us these prices because we keep accepting to pay for these ridiculous markups. High-end bicycles are priced disproportionately high not because of production costs, but because manufacturers take advantage of consumers willing to pay stupid prices. Let’s compare bikes to motorcycles. High-end bicycles are not expensive due to production costs but because manufacturers capitalize on consumers willing to pay premium prices. Brands like Trek, Giant and Specialized mass-produce bikes in Taiwan with efficient, automated processes, despite marketing them as highly specialized or custom-built. Incremental improvements in weight or gear performance are positioned as essential, but they don’t come close to the complexity of motorcycles, which feature advanced technologies like ABS, fuel injection, and ride-by-wire systems. The real difference lies in consumer behavior and industry dynamics. Motorcycle prices are kept in check by competition and practical buyer expectations, leading to slimmer margins (around 10-15%). On the other hand, bicycles thrive in a “passion economy” where emotional attachment and lifestyle branding allow companies to apply massive markups, often exceeding 30-50%. Fragmented supply chains and outsourced components further inflate prices, but because cyclists keep buying, manufacturers keep charging. So simple solution, stop buying them at these prices.

[@Tailspin80]

It’s a market. Pick a cheaper make.

[@RisseK1]

Literally just stop buying them. Consumers have all the power, thus all the responsibility, but consumers don't want to accept that.

[@marcusantonyledulx]

Bike consumers are generally wealthy. They don't need to consider cost.

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

@@marcusantonyledulx Exactly, it's a luxury lifestyle consumerism thing, so the show will continue.

[@shred3005]

The thing is, the latest high tech sexy looking bikes are what people want. Go for a group ride and there will regularly be people showing off their new expensive bike and everyone else admiring and discussing it. It feels good and we enjoy it. Group think is self perpetuating.

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

@@shred3005 Unless of course you left a warped group who deliberately don't acknowledge your new bike, despite you acknowledging theirs only months before. I left a cycling club because it was full of the most jealous and spiteful people you could ever meet. And the new bike was the least of it.

[@vesalehtinen4534]

As far as bikes are concerned, I'm gonna buy whatever the hell I want, why would I act otherwise?

[@wspmjw]

Mechanical shifting and mechanical disc brake options that are more widely available should be provided to offer bicycles at a lower cost to the consumer. I've been an avid cyclist since 2015 and have yet to ride an electronically shifted bike with hydraulic brakes. My first real road bike has ~28,000 miles on it and is doing just fine.

[@shrek341]

@wspmjw same here. They like inventing these so called upgrades that we dont need just to make money. I guess its a bussiness,but just be honest with consumers and not try to justify disc breaks or electronic shifting as it will make u a better rider.

[@FTA38yearfreeride]

@@shrek341 disc brakes don't belong on an affordable bike...they add a kg of weight and no advantage.

[@AndrewShakespeare]

In a world where some people are building devices to make it easier to wax their chain to gain a few watts on their club ride, of course someone is going to pay £1000s for a bike that is far too good for them. On the upside, those people can sell their barely used old bike on eBay for the rest of us who are happy to use rim brakes, mechanical shifting, and lube.

[@Damarsh]

What a hero.

[@brokenrecord3523]

And there is one of the problems with the used bike market. Cyclists are bike hoarders. They have that tricycle that got at 2 and the Schwin Stingray they got at 8.

[@Benas_]

"bikes are too expensive," says the crew that ride superbikes, I assume they are gifted/sponsored - don't get me wrong I love what you guys are doing, great channel, but part of this issue is that top-end bikes are shown as the "normal" through things like the sponsorship of influencers (yes, I'm sorry you guys are influencers too). You guys do. a very good job of telling us that you don't need to ride top-end bikes, but you still ride top-end bikes- "do as I say not as I do". This is not a complaint, just an observation - I get it, the sponsors give money to allow the channel to operate, which I'm all for - but it's a tricky situation, one that I don't have an answer too. Keep up the good work, and let's be honest if I were given a super bike I'd ride it and tell everyone how good it was too! Carry on.

[@bozhidarstanimirov643]

Very accurate. Also I would like to add that the fact that they are all sponsored doesn't allow them to acknowledge the steep price. If the guys here were left only with their paycheck they would also be pissed to pay 700bucks for a 8speed 11kg bike.

[@out_spocken]

Not everyone needs to. These guys are ex pros! lol It's also their job to sell products that keep them in a job. Just as they don't almost ever talk about buying second hand. Why? Because that doesn't benefit sponsors of the channel. Stop being so bloody critical of marketing and ignorant of how it works. It's like bitching about a private healthcare sales person trying to get you to buy private healthcare when there is a free public system for health. Everyone's different. Everyone needs different things. They probably don't think bikes are too expensive...but are doing a show that reflects the feelings of the general public. SMH

[@Benas_]

I have noticed they do mention the price of their bikes a bit - I think Simon mentioned that commuting on his $10,000 Superbike was overkill, but also so much fun, he also acknowledged that he was lucky enough to have been given such a nice bike), and the others have done similar too. I do think they do a good job of riding nice bikes and being real about the privilege of sponsors /free bikes...

[@bozhidarstanimirov643]

@@out_spocken yes, agree in that sense. I've been watching the Chanel for years but KZbin is still a community and it allows us to discuss about when they are wrong. The thing that really pushes my buttons is the title of the video. "What can we do about it?" More like "You guys are delusional every is because of innovation and inflation and is absolutely reasonable" when it isn't. The solution really will be buying form the Chinese market if they In a couple of years if you want something new at least when talking about groupsets. I don't know about you but hyping Cues (not from these guys but as a whole) for more than a year now and getting nothing is really disappointing and I doubt Shimano will be able to at least partially match the prices the Chinese offer.

[@PrzemyslawSliwinski]

It doesn't have to be a superbike to ride on to make someone somehow detached from the reality. It requires riding the same bike with the same group set for a few years to be able to notice and appreciate the long-term features like durability, longevity and dependability of the equipment.

[@bharbir]

You pretty much nailed it. The

[@AndrewShakespeare]

Plenty of rim brake bikes on ebay.

[@PsyKeks]

Why limit yourself to major brands, though? Major brands make the stuff that everyone wants and is easy to sell for good profit. If you want something for a good price, you'll need a brand that produces in a good volume (lower cost because of economy of scale), but doesn't do so much marketing (marketing costs a lot of money and in the end the customer pays that as well). And if there's cost to be saved by using mechanical rim brakes for example, then a brand that produces these bikes in smaller quantities may even still have the cheaper offering.

[@flact75]

Problem with the used market is that the high prices of the new market then make sellers believe they can still get max dollars for their used bike so really the used market isn't that affordable. I'd love to buy used, but for the price difference, I'll just stick with new and get a warranty and possibly newer tech.

[@askmeaboutmattweiner]

​@@JeromeebThere's lots of 100-200 dollar garbage bikes for sale in DMV. But everybody with an sl7 or previous gen madone thinks that just because they paid 13k a few years ago it's still worth 12k.

[@mackknife1551]

@@Jeromeeb I just recently checked for a friend and was astonished as to how many bikes were offered for like 200€ off of a new - but they already were two or even more years old. Really weird!

[@FliskerX]

It's all about demand, I find the whole situation weird, ppl are saying how the bike industry is screwed, stuff is not selling and whatnot and then I try to buy a new Aeroad CF SLX and it's like they are all sold out in common sizes, especially M. So I set up a bot to get instant notification when it's available and turns out, the stuff sells like hot cakes, literally new batch sells out in few hours. And then have fun waiting months for new one or sniping those orders that got cancelled. So this complaining and asking what to do about expensive bikes... well answer is nothing, there is even now a big demand for it, so it is not going to get cheaper.

[@askmeaboutmattweiner]

@@FliskerX You're spot on. Bike prices aren't going to stop rising until people stop buying expensive bikes. It sucks but unless there's a huge technology change that massively decreases production costs and increases supply (I don't know automated carbon layup or something), prices will stay high.

[@cuebj]

@@askmeaboutmattweiner That is a good point. Back in the day, bike tech didn't change much over decades and remained updateable. I bought my 2007 Cannondale System6 new in 2008 clearance sale. Apart from 2*9-speed gears, you'd be hard put to notice much difference from anything ridden in the 50 years previous... except it has a carbon front end and aluminium rear triangle. Despite the frame winning 2007 Giro and three stages (2 mountain, 1 sprint) under three different riders for two or three different teams, everything went full carbon in 2008 and it was out of date and worth half the 2007 price. My 2018 Ultegra cable gear Roubaix was second-hand for me in late 2018. Original buyer got it in late 2017 as a first bike (!), loved it and, within a year, upgraded to stuff that made the Roubaix look affordable. But it's out of date! In that time, tyres and rims have got wider and the trend is for shorter cranks (mine was recalled, cranks changed, and I forgot to ask for 165 mm cranks). I think recent developments really are a huge improvement over my Roubaix and the Roubaix is faster for this 69-year old than my steel frames, even my System6. Roads in SE London and Kent are cracked and much rougher than decades ago so fatter tyres are both safer and faster than hard 23C 120 psi high level old tech. The Roubaix is worth about a sixth of its price of 2017-18. With computers and cars, I've tended to get heavy duty, high spec versions of old machinery and always done better than buying what I could afford new. With bikes, I wish I'd waited for 105 all-road bikes available now and, in past few months, massively discounted from summer

[@FTA38yearfreeride]

What can you do ??? Buy a bike you can afford!!! 🎉 for 1200 euro you have a very good aluminium bike perfect for 90% of amateur hobby riders !!👍

[@MrLootshoot]

1200 I'm not that rich😟

[@FTA38yearfreeride]

@@MrLootshoot 900 is also OK🤣

[@MrLootshoot]

@@FTA38yearfreeride 🤣

[@mmarmars]

if you dont mind buying a used bike, 500 can already get you a nice rimbrake bike, or maybe decent discbrake bike with aluminum/steel frame. then you can end up with a bike with good equipment overall after you upgrade to 1500 mark vs buying a new bike with stock parts

[@mutualin4mation]

Al bike with carbon fork is hard to beat.

[@timdowney6721]

Don’t know about the UK, but in the US the same car model gets larger and more expensive every year. No actual reason for it. It’s just to fleece the buyers. Of course, that’s why the ubiquitous car advertisements are not really about getting to Point B from A, , but about telling the viewer how good they will feel as they go from home to office in the Super Duty truck.

[@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy]

In Australia we don't even have to have the vehicles increase in size. Basic bracket creep means that cars not previously considered luxury have breached the price threshold imposed by the Fed Gov't and subsequently attract a 30% tax on the retail price. The threshold is about $73k imposed in the year 2000. Despite inflation there has been no review of that threshold so more cars are increasing in price purely on the basis of a dollar value that then blows out by 30% irrespective of the fact they do not classify as luxury cars.

[@cassidyarrington4572]

Then they bitc* about fuel prices 😂😂😂😂😂

[@robflel]

This! Watch NotJustBikes video on trucks.

[@Paksusuoli95]

@@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy Customers have shown that they are willing to pay retail+30%. Do you really think manufacturers won't just increase prices if your brackets were adjusted???

[@traderz13]

In the UK they just blindly copy whatever the USA does but a decade or so behind. So UK cars slowly getting bigger even though the roads and garages are small.

[@nerigarcia7116]

Cycling has gotten to the point where everyone wants to have the latest model and it's become like the iPhone. You have to have the latest but it's really pretty much the same. It's all marketing, but that demand allows the industry to maintain that price point for their latest stuff. I've gotten over that. I've sold off all my modern carbon road bikes, but one 2018 Giant TCR Maglia Rosa mechanical/rim brake bike. I've gone to more classic shaped steel and titanium builds for my daily riders. They're not the lightest or most aero but they look good, ride smooth, are timeless, and just work. I've found that the new stuff is nice, but not necessary. It's saving me a ton of money.

[@gregknipe8772]

the guy has gone back to basics. titanium. I think you missed the point, or maybe there is no point. do what you wanna do.

[@nerigarcia7116]

@@gregknipe8772 I'm just saying I'm not chasing the latest greatest anymore. I'm sticking to bikes I already have that I love to ride, which so happen to be the classic double triangle. I have carbon, steel, titanium, and aluminum frames, I'm just not getting anything else moving forward. I'm not chasing the latest anymore. I'm not saying I'm back to the basics, I'm saying I don't need to move forward because it's been all the same lately. I already have the bikes that work for me.

[@charliedillon1400]

@@gregknipe8772 Nothing says you're sixty like titanium.

[@MaceWanted]

@@charliedillon1400 the material is super expensive, but compared to all that aero everything and marginal gains games, titanium bikes are timeless aswell as steel and have a nice "I dont care" attitude

[@FTA38yearfreeride]

@@nerigarcia7116 it calls snobbism

[@Tailspin80]

I bought a Giant Contend AR1 in Feb for under £1500. It’s on sale online for £1,329.30 today. Really nice bike, under 10 kg. Shimano 11x2, hydraulic disks etc. I’m sure I could have paid 10x more to lose a few kg but I could do the same by eating a bit less!

[@daversj]

I couldn’t find that bike in my area or online. Had to buy the Contend AR3 with Sora and mech disc. I installed a bendy Chinese full carbon seat post from ebay, a like new set of Giant SLR1 carbon wheels for cheap and some tubeless Conti GP5000 tires. Great bike and rides like a dream now. The stock Giant tires are really bad. Love my cheap bike just over 9 kilos.

[@brickboy2096]

This may be off topic to the vid but I wanted to mention it anyway. In my (year 10) geography class we were doing about transport in London and how to reduce congestion. Anyway, once we completed the task we learned about what "London" actually did, they installed the Elizabeth line for 19 BILLION pounds. They compared this to what could have been made (which was a cyclist overpass). Nobody in my class, apart from me 😂, said this bike route was a good idea. They actually said it was overpriced whilst coating 200 million pounds. Obviously much less than the Elisabeth line. My class said the Elizabeth line was worth it!!! As a cyclists and avid gcn viewer I thought I would leave a comment. This also shows that even in the new generation the cars>bikes mentality is a problem. I was wondering what gcn's thoughts on this would be? Ps if you read all of this, kudos.

[@BirdmanDeuce26]

On the other side of the ocean, the Premier of Ontario, Canada, Doug Ford, has proposed building a tunnel underneath Highway 401, a *16 lane highway,* greenlit the construction of Highway 413, a ring road intended to "help reduce congestion" (never mind that developers associated with Ford and his ilk have properties that stand to jump in valuation once the highway is completed), and is currently trying to push for the removal of cycle lanes in downtown Toronto. Meanwhile, the GO Train transit system, which moves *thousands more people,* but is hampered by limited scheduling/lack of priority on rails, still operates at a fraction of its possible potential because this province can't fathom people not driving to where they need to go.

[@brickboy2096]

Cool, it is so interesting to see how opinions change based on the general area you live in. ❤

[@raynoldchow]

Actually I would say both of them are good. Bikes and trains are companion and they can be used in mixed transport mode. Sometimes you want to get somewhere that it's hard to just cycle to like for example from Farringdon to Reading, cycling is good for connecting purposes. Even in Netherlands people often use bikes and trains together. (Although they have better bike storage on the train when compared to our IET/Class 345)

[@cuebj]

They're both good. Elizabeth Line (yes, I've had to stop calling it CrossRail as nobody remembers that) was needed and has been very much more successful than even the most optimistic projections. We need more lines like it as well as upgraded tube lines with cleaner air, more trains per minute, more capacity. Pound for pound, Elizabeth Line is very well worth it to London and the whole UK economy. I used to cycle at speed from Reading to Oxford Circus, later from East Ham to City, West End, Earls Court, and elsewhere in London every day. Back then, there were very few bikes. Try it now and it's much slower because there are so many bikes (50 per traffic light in rush hour! If all the folk who use Elizabeth Line were on bikes, we couldn't move for bikes, even if no cars at all. Now, as a pensioner, I walk the 8 to 10 miles to, eg, Earls Court, or take train (Elizabeth Line is so fast) from Woolwich then change to Tube. I don't cycle due to the vast numbers of cyclists who make cycling both slow and dangerous as they ignore Highway Code. And we need more and better cycle routes, perhaps on disused railway lines along with a Dutch style rethink of everything related to moving about London. £200 million is almost lost in the roundings for something like Elizabeth Line so they come out of different funding streams and decision models

[@michaelw7438]

Well said BrickBoy!

[@michaelfleming4015]

The MUFF was a hack because someone with a very creative sense of humor got you to talk about it for 5 minutes and since that was their objective, it’s a hack. Well done!

[@pbcanal1]

Yea, i dont think they quite grasped the humor in the muff.

[@TedonTwo]

I am still in shock they read the ridiculous copy, as written, like Ron Burgundy on a teleprompter. The slow zoom as Si falls apart is where I lost it.

[@gbspikyfish]

Earlier this year I bought my first new bike in 20 years; a Specialized Roubaix SL8 105 (not exactly cheap to start with). The next model up (the SL8 Comp) had the Di2 version of the 105 groupset, and a slightly upgraded FutureShock (3.2 vs 3.1). The 105 Di2 groupset costs £500-£700 more than 105 at retail, and a complete FutureShock 3.3 is £400 (much more than the likely cost difference between the 3.1 and 3.2). The price difference between the two models was £2000. I see they've since dropped that model by £750, but that's still £1250 for an upgrade in parts that would cost maybe half that. So, yea, I do think bikes are too expensive.

[@prestachuck2867]

Sounds like typical Specialized.

[@PsyKeks]

Might(!) in part(!) be because your trim is the more common one that has smaller cost overhead per unit and also with the electronic stuff they will expect a higher rate of customer service tickets. 😉

[@perryvath7617]

If you’re not a pro, don’t buy pro-level equipment. Mechanical shifters, rim brakes, older technology, with a slightly higher weight are ok for the majority of us. Look for a good deal on a use bike close to what you want. Build and/or upgrade your own bike.

[@davezzzz172]

I've always thought that electronic shifting is a solution looking for a problem. And the people I ride with who have tubeless more often than not end up very frustrated with punctures and the inability of dealing with them easily. Give me mechanical shifters and tubes!

[@erins9271]

I learned the other day that electronic shifters are beneficial for people who have arthritis in their hands. They have a hard time pushing the shifter to change gears. But overall, I agree, mechanical shifters and brakes are perfectly well for the majority of people. And yes, I will stick with tubes until there is a less messy tubeless option.

[@ariffau]

Disagree on rim brakes as they max out at 28mm for road race bike which are harsh. 32mm tyres are the new 28s 😆

[@sepg5084]

​@@davezzzz172 electronic groupsets are for people who can't or won't learn how to index their derailleur properly. I learned to do it just by watching youtube videos in less than half a day.

[@sepg5084]

​@@erins9271 tubeless in road bicycles are unnecessary, just like electronic groupsets, unless they make it cheaper, more convenient, and easier to install than tires with inner tubes.

[@ramonvanderben8120]

I hate to brag, but it is not the first time there is a back to back winner in Caption Competition. I won in episodes 435 and 436... Nevertheless, cracking caption, again!! And welcome to the club of back2back winners!! It was getting a bit lonely...

[@CycleXplorer]

🏆

[@PsyKeks]

Yeah, I was suspicious of it not being the first time. And I am thinking back to when they banned someone from competing because they were winning too often. 😆

[@ramonvanderben8120]

@@PsyKeks well it wasn't me, because a couple of weeks ago, I won my fifth GCN water bottle... 🍼🍼 🍼 🍼 🍼

[@tabishop3]

I won episodes 383/384 and 405/406. Kudos to the other members of the back3back club. Any other double back2backers out there? Would be cool to see the caption competition stats compiled to solve all the mysteries.

[@aragorn318]

I just bought a used road bike 3 mos ago off Buycycle from a seller in Italy for $1475, and it turned out to be the best bike purchase of my life. It's a 54 cm 2019 rim brake Giant TCR Advanced 1 with Ultegra R8000 groupset and 62 cm DTSwiss Arc 1100 wheels. He even included Elite bottle cages, Look Keo 2 Max pedals, and the bike owners manual. I used the free international shipping promo code to deliver to Chicago, and the total with tax came out to $1610 USD. The bike is in perfect condition and I'm 52 y.o. I don't need a power meter, electronic groupset, integrated cabling, and hydraulic disk brakes!

[@charliedillon1400]

That's a great deal! I just built up a 2009 Wilier Cento frameset from eBay ($400) with Ultegra R8000 mechanical/rim brake 11sp group and Shimano RS wheels for about $1,500 total, all in. Dream bike, sub 18lbs and super comfortable. These new bikes are a joke, I love dropping them on group rides.

[@aragorn318]

@@charliedillon1400 Yep, my bike is 16.75 lbs and I live along the lakefront, which has 20 miles of paved bike trail. I'm racing 30 y.o's with their disk bikes for a fraction of the price. I get looks and compliments all the time!

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Nothing loses value faster than a carbon high-end bike from a big brand. 50% off the original MSRP seems pretty common. Bought a brand-new bike via Buycycling recently for just $500 more than I paid for an identical used one two years ago. Either way a pretty good deal, but that doesn't matter to those who must have the newest-latest the minute they come onto the market. The market just LOVES those early-adopters!!!

[@Cherokee140Driver]

I live down miles and miles of gravel roads. It's annoying and the dust gets everywhere but it's beautiful out here. I've always thought I was just riding my bike down the roads. I never knew it had a spirit.

[@CazzaJen]

I think you'll find as Halliween approaches there's going to be more spirits than ever around 👻👻👻👻👻

[@Millicente]

As a relatively new addition to the cycling community, the problem from my point of view has always been optics. Yes, Dan and Si are correct that people do not expect to be able to afford top end luxury or racing motorbikes and cars, but neither are they sold the top end motorbikes and cars on a seemingly regular basis by the manufacturers. Has anyone ever seen a BMW motorbike ad for their motogp bike? Or had Mercedes sponsor youtube channels to sell their F1 cars? All the marketing goes into the top end bikes and the aluminium or lower end carbon bikes hardly ever see the light of day. That makes those bikes seem like they're only for the beginners or the ones who can't afford the "real" bikes. Part of the responsibility for that mindset is on the consumer but it's also what's being marketed. It also doesn't help that during the pandemic brands like specialized added thousands to the price of their S-works sl-7 and never brought it back down. A company creating a luxury product such as colnago or pinarello selling it as such with an astronomical price tag is comparable to the lamborgini or ferrari in concept, but in those cars any person off the street can see the difference in leather, the absolute monster engines, the electronic tech and creature comforts, ALONG with the badge. In bikes all you really see is a badge someone in a factory pasted on next to another person who's pasting a different badge and a "trust us, this carbon that we stuck a marketing name onto and the bike's components cost a lot." On the surface level, people like me who don't know the exact details of the economics of such things see the chinese and taiwanese OEM factories creating their own bikes and parts for less money and the question always becomes "why is x, y, z brand 2, 3, or 4 times more expensive other than the desire for increased profit margin?"

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

S-Works is the perfect example of people buying an ''attitude'' bike. It's pretty sad. If it just said SPECIALIZED on the downtube, that would be no good, it HAS to be S-Works.

[@charliedillon1400]

You're spot on. Honda and Toyota make million dollar race cars, but they focus on selling Accords and Camrys, the cars people actually want. Bike brands try to sell us World Tour race bikes, every year.

[@FlatSpinMan]

Ooh. This is an excellent point.

[@PsyKeks]

Well, the difference is that nearly nobody could afford a Formula 1 Racecar. In bicycles the top race ones are expensive, but still easily in reach for middle class, so it makes sense to advertise them heavily. (The customer for an expensive car will know where to go. And they are probably also advertised to, very much. We "mortals" just wouldn't ever see those ads in our daily lifes.) And road bikes in particular are a leisure item, that you buy for sport. If you buy a cheap bike for mobility, you go to the hardware store or discounter or you buy second hand. Also car brands will very much advertise middle and elevated priced cars and place them in preferred spots in the dealerships over the cheap ones. But they still also advertise somewhat cheaper cars - because they can. On a cheap bike there is no money left for advertising. A cheap car might have more budget for advertising in its price than a cheap bike's total price, I don't know.

[@powderman38]

Just keep your bike as long as possible and avoid to buy a new one... And if you're not puting more than 4 W/kg at FTP, the difference is fairly minimal between an 10 years old top of the line bike (which were already very good if well maintained) and a brand new top of the line bike... Marketing will always say new is better, but it's not.

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

I totally agree. Some people just have to have the newest stuff. After all cycling is the new golf. I am closer to 5W/kg and my Colnago C40 with modern drivetrain and wheels is not any slower than my Dogma F10. The only difference is less stiffness in descending than I prefer. And in real world tests, my C40 is usually just .2-.3 mph slower than my F10. Yes, a 1/4 of a MPH.

[@punktzaczepienia]

I live in Sweden. I have been working in the bicycle industry (retail) for 8 years. Leasing turned out to be a good solution for us. This way we can provide access to both new and used products at a reasonable cost and with a guarantee. In the post-pandemic period, we would not survive on the market without this solution. Cheers!

[@goodgegoodge101]

A little tone deaf again on bike pricing. Top line motorbike c.20k. Top line push bike c.15k. The manufacture,QA, safety etc. of a push bike to a motorbike is not comparible. So the price shouldnt be anywhere close to a motorbike. The "tech innovation" they say costs so much (disc brakes, carbon fibre etc) were all innovated in other industries as well. Its price gouging nothing else.

[@PsyKeks]

First Google result for expensive motorbikes was a list that STARTED at 44.000. Then I looked at an article about cheap motorbikes, the headline said "under 9.000". Meanwhile a cheap road bicycle can be had for under 300 new, other types for even less.

[@goodgegoodge101]

@@PsyKeks £44k starting price for a motorbike is likely something limited eg. superleggera v4 or bespoke. These bikes are made in the hundreds max for a worldwide market. These are not for the average consumer and usually go to museums, multimillionares, people who collect bikes etc. Equivilant in road bikes would be buying a limited production colnago that pogi has riden on. These are not for average consumer. Top range for an average consumer is c20k for a S1000RR, panigale, R1 etc. I have both. Its pretty obvious companies are price gouging. Will only be a matter of time before challenger brand comes along that makes cheaper performance road bikes and or 2nd hand market explodes.

[@benjamescycling]

I don’t understand why bike companies charging 1,000s and still don’t offer customers to select handlebar width/crank length when it’s a pretty established benefit now

[@LordVarkson]

Or hell, every model has one, maybe two paintjob options.

[@smithandshortdogs]

Yeah, you should buy used... Maybe we could start a company for good second hand bikes. Maybe in Colorado. Call it the Pro's Closet? I checked, and I think the URL should be available soon.

[@perryvath7617]

They went out of business.

[@megavolt2008]

RIP. 😥

[@lincolnlu9869]

​@@perryvath7617 woosh

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Buycycle's advertising on almost every zootube video I look at. I bought a new bike through them recently but have yet to receive it. Good price but don't be in any hurry to get it - more than two weeks to ship it from one place in Italy to another place in Italy? WTF? Good thing I have other bikes to play with while I wait!

[@jbmectronic4314]

Renovate your old war horse. Its what I did this year with my MTB. Its not the same as a new bike, but (still) fairly cheap.

[@izi941]

So the next video will be Road vs. Gravel bike? 😂

[@EspressDelivery]

I ordered a swytch kit for my old Giant commuter bike to give it some life

[@jbmectronic4314]

And there is a certain feel of doing a good thing for the environment taking care of what you got. (This coming from a guy changing bike every two years, for many years) 😅

[@Jaredstthomas]

I think every brand needs a full alloy, 8-10 speed mechanical shifting bike with external cabling. At least give people an option under $1000

[@charliedillon1400]

This would actually get new riders into the sport, and a few years later they'll want a more expensive bike. The brands need to figure out the next generation of buyers. The old rich guys are dying off.

[@Jaredstthomas]

@@charliedillon1400 100%, it’s stupid how much research I had to do to get a decent first bike second hand because anything new was completely out of reach

[@Pastamistic]

Shimano makes their Cues groupset. Which is very flexible with compatibility and cheap. I have no idea why it's so rare to find speced on any bikes.

[@Jaredstthomas]

@@Pastamistic isn’t the Cues brand new?

[@Pastamistic]

@@Jaredstthomas I'm pretty sure it's been out a few years now

[@jkwest2009]

I appreciate when Dan points out that some folks may just need to do what it takes to service their bike. If the "fix" is dangerous, that's one thing...but a hat tip to those who rely on their wits and whatever's around to keep rolling is well deserved. 👍

[@1972andyb]

Dan saying the phrase don’t meet your heroes does not apply to Chris Hoy, same to be said meeting Dan himself several times and Alex Dowsett.

[@adamjones5261]

Love hearing Dan talk passionately about the changing face of drugs in cycling. It’s what I pay my licence fee for! Would love to hear more of what it was like in the good old days.

[@marcvb3364]

Simply skip on mainstream brands that rip us off. I bought a Yoeleo R11 a few months ago, and have absolutely no regrets. Less manufacturing defects than my Trek Domane SL6, better specs, a third of the price, and customer service (altough per Email) is better than with the Trek stores.

[@WoodAndSteel92]

1) Buy what you need, not what you want/are advertised by major brands. 2) Buy pre-owned/used bikes, assuming they're in good condition or you can get them vetted by a local bike shop. 3) Talk to those same local bike shops about maintenance costs. Expensive components are (more often than not) expensive to maintain in the long run.

[@jkwest2009]

#captioncompetition As Henry David Thoreau said, "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears the beat of a different drummer...or perhaps he's on Ineos and having an off year."

[@RobertAdairWorkshop]

Nobody wants to buy a new alloy rim brake road bike in 2024. The same commenters insisting they would buy one, in one breath, are saying they only ride old tech, in the next breath. Those guys aren’t buying new bikes regardless of the cost or tech involved.

[@laryeparkins]

Having been a cyclist for most of the past 74 years (having received my first very used bike at age 7), I remember a time when the saying went "Don't pay less than $300 for a bike or more than $500 for a car." The constant search for better tech to gain a tiny bit of speed seems a pointless exercise for those of us who just want to get from point A to point B on a bike in reasonable time with a reasonable amount of effort. My bike tech has progressed from single-speed coaster-brake to 3-speed, 10-speed, 12-speed, 18-speed, 21-speed, and 27-speed steel-frame models with rim brakes, and I still have the last four, which range from 13 to 45 years old. They still ride just fine, but we rarely pass other riders, and don't much care. And yes, the latest one did cost 20 times as much as that first $300 *real* bike from an actual bike store, but it seats two and was built to order.

[@Cabomccabe]

In 2016 I bought a first gen aero Trek Madone and after the usual additional things i needed (Seat, pedals, water bottles, tires, etc) the price was about $15,000. This year, after crashing my latest BMC and receiving insurance money (yes homeowners insurance covers that!), I bought a 2024 BMC SLR 01 at about the same cost. I'm not sure what anyone is talking about. If you are buying a superbike, the price hasn't changed in the last 8 years. More importantly, when was the time in history when everything was priced just right? 1915? 1950? 1990? 2002? It's called inflation folks, and it's been happening forever. Did people in 1972 say "wow, everything is priced just right!" No, they complained everything was too expensive. I'm fairly certain the ancient Egyptians were complaining of the rising prices of rocks to make "these damn pyramids." Frankly, 8 years ago, I couldn't buy a very nice carbon frame with 105 Di2 on it (which is very reasonably priced and works really well). Trickle down tech has made the options for more affordable bikes better than ever. Here's what is really happening... many of the cyclist watching this show are getting older. When you get old you think that everything is too expensive and the world is falling apart. Ask a 25 year old if the world is falling apart and things are too expensive - they wouldn't know what you are talking about. If only it were 1987, when everything was priced just perfectly!

[@lars3509]

Really? 25 year olds don't complain about the prices and the world falling apart? Do we live on the same planet?

[@macmakka8214]

In 1976 my Carlton Pro with Campag record cost 11 x a working mans wage, a good tradie makes about 1400 ~1500 a week so 16000 ish in todays money seems about the same historically, 50 years later

[@JSC131]

I'm 25 year and perfectly understand the financial position most people are experiencing in the UK.

[@Cabomccabe]

Is that position any different than any other time? Are we living in a special time? Where everything is expensive as opposed to previous years when everything was priced just right?

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Sorry, but I'm not taking any advice from anyone who: "In 2016 bought a first gen aero Trek Madone and after the usual additional things i needed (Seat, pedals, water bottles, tires, etc) the price was about $15,000." Yeah, I'm old but that is still F__KING nuts! People like you are WHY the prices are what they are!

[@JimmyJames-b4o]

I had been out of road riding for a long time. Before November 2023 the last new road bike I had bought was a $2k columbus steel, full Campy beauty in 1989. I have always followed the sport and knew that all the marketing was for top-of-the-line everything. So I set my budget to return to road riding at $2k and you know what I still have some of it left. I bought an aluminum road bike $1200 (cannondale synapse sora/local shop), shoes $80(Giant/local shop), 2 jerseys, 2 shorts $190 (Amazon), helmet $40(Giro/local shop), gloves and socks $35 (Decathalon), bottles, cages and seat bag $71 (PRO & Elite/local shop) and spare tubes, levers and CO2 cartridges $30 (Amazon). The group I ride with (lots of high-end bikes and kit) are always on about how expensive the sport is and whinging about spouses that tell them they spend too much. I just laugh and remind them that my whole set up cost less than their carbon wheels and they aren't riding any faster than me.

[@MrTeff999]

For the price of a high end bicycle, you can buy a motorcycle that will do 160 mph. (Honda CBR600RR for example.) That’s what gets me.

[@MrTeff999]

In China and South Korea where this stuff is manufactured, you can buy a new car for that price.

[@adamolig3865]

dishonest comparison, man. Honda CBR600RR is not the fastest tier motor bike you can buy, a Kawasaki H2R retailing for $57,500 would blow your Honda example out of the water, whereas no one is blowing you out of the water if you have a truly top end $12-15000 road bike. Ducati Superleggera V4, a limited-production lightweight all-carbon superbike, production run of just 500 units, 200mph, and MSRP was $100,000.

[@LordVarkson]

For the price of a high end bicycle, I could ride in a plane at 550mph.

[@MrTeff999]

@@adamolig3865 I think you miss my point.

[@charliedillon1400]

@@adamolig3865 "no one is blowing you out of the water if you have a truly top end $12-15000 road bike" Saturday morning group ride says otherwise, lol! A pro rider can drop everybody on a twenty year old bike.

[@RyonBeachner]

On cars vs bicycles, the manufacturers do make a lower market version of essentially the same vehicle for less money. I’ll use VW Group, Shimano/SRAM and Spdcialized as an example. VW Touareg - Tiagra / Apex - Allez Audi Q8 - 105 / Rival - Tarmac SL7 Porsche Cayenne - Ultegra / Force - Tarmac SL8 Lamborghini Urus - Dura Ace / Red - S-Works Tarmac New cars, and new bikes are both more expensive than they were, and that will always be the case as is the nature of modern (inflation target) economics. However if you can’t find something in your budget new, there’s a near endless supply of used options available for substantially less money.

[@DougBateson]

Basically what you seem to focus on is the latest technology, the most sophisticated materials, a lighter, faster RACE bike as the reason/justification of the high cost of bikes. 90 plus per cent of us in no way have any need for this level of technical sophistication. Our bodies and their limitations, our training and our time available for cycling mean we don't need the latest and greatest and will never put it to its limits. Stop buying these over spec-ed bikes. As the clients for any manufacturers products we should be able to influence if not dictate what we will buy and therefor what they should make.

[@playandteach]

Waxed chain breaking in: I made the mistake of running my newly waxed chain on my bike, on a stand on the dining room wooden floor. I've been skating around in my socks ever since. I knew I could vacuum the flakes up, but didn't realise the ice rink it would cause.

[@fukav1am]

Any skier will know, it makes much more mess when scraping off the wax from a ski.

[@CycleXplorer]

Wait for a big sale? Like 50% off Specialized...

[@petekraemer2538]

This past spring, I picked up my fourth significate bike. This was a Specialized gravel model. At the point of sale, I asked if they would accept my Lite Speed as a trade in. They insisted that they had no market for used bikes. I have also heard that used bikes can not be certified for resale because of structural issues.

[@Sonnie125]

Stop paying it and prices will decrease , it’s supply and demand ! .. You have to maintain your older bikes … it’s not difficult ! I’ve still got all my road bikes on rim brakes , not changing just for the sake of newer disc brakes or electric gears … Worked hard enough for the bikes I’ve got .. Bikes are overpriced massively ! Anyone who pays full price is being robbed , just look at actual build costs …

[@michaelwood5897]

The bike industry has always trickled down tech unnecessarily. There’s no need for Ultegra, force, rival and 105 to be Di2. The industry should have kept all of the mid range stuff mechanical and there top tier stuff as top tier stuff.

[@rs-zg6rs]

Not sure where all that expensive technology is being used to justify higher price points as my 2012 Pinarello Dogma 60.1 has all the tech you ever need and apart from upgraded carbon the bike is still the same today as then. Why did my Trek Emonda more than triple its price through covid and remain so afterwards when it's the same bike as pre covid - costly tech, where?

[@SuperChewyDough]

I bought my 2nd road bike, Trek Domane SLR 9 2019, from Cycle Exchange in London in 2021. I got it for half price, with my first taste of DI2 and fully carbon bike, and this shop also verifies and services bikes they bring in from sellers. Absolutely the best purchase I've ever made and I'm still using it after more than 3 years.

[@jespernohr]

How can a 3D printed M.U.F.F. be a bodge?! 3D print always equal hack! And not even a ziptie in sight. Heresy!

[@TedonTwo]

I'm just honored Dan thought it was an off the shelf product. I think he'd find my M.U.F.F. to be rather bespoke!

[@nellyx1x493]

What I find the most confusing, is why the younger generations- who should be the most anti-consumerist in history given what they know about what that's doing to the planet- actually seem to be the most consumer obsessed about 'must' having the latest things. Thus is what drives prices ever skyward, as corporate companies re-invent the things that you don't really need. The humble bicycle is one of the best things in the world precisely because in its simplicity it enables you to do great things. A great riding frame from a decade ago still rides great now, if you're job isn't racing then most of the other stuff doesn't matter. Most riders would be better off on a good metal frame rather than the carbon thing that breaks if it falls over, carbon production is toxic and often low-quality, destined for landfill. Everything we buy from now on, the consumer should be thinking about its environmental impact... good lifetime steel frame, durable gear, no batteries.

[@stickler6312]

Well said. Younger generation rant about saving the planet, but never change their own behaviour....

[@wazzup105]

You (GCN) are guilty (OK partly) of driving up prices and demand for high end bikes. Stop making us think we need the high end stuff. Stop pretending you (or we) are pro-riders and admit we just want to ride our bikes for fun. The difference between is high end bike and a mid range bike is negligible for most of us. I admit I like watching expensive cars, but somehow it's clear that no one needs a Bugatti to drive to work or to do their shopping.

[@lietzium]

I saw a documentary on TV about an engineer at Canyon who spent half a year developing an aero optimised water bottle, to save 1 Watt or whatever, including consultation by a Canyon sponsored triathlete, advanced computer models, several prototypes, wind tunnel testing and real world testing. Of course that bottle alone comes at a steep price.

[@jansonmur4362]

Another update from the guy with no friends who like cycling: So I blew out the sidewall on my back tire last week 10 miles from my car. I had to walk 2 miles in my cycling shoes to walmart to get a new tire so I could get home and I learned an awful lot about tires, mostly how bad a really trash tire is and how nice a good tire is. I run 700c38, the tire that came stock on my bike wpuld allow me to bike steadily at 200~ watts on zwift for an hour+ the tire from walmart I capped put sustainable effort at 185~ watts. It was also super loud and vibrated so much my tocus would go numb. Yesterday my schwalbe marathon supreme came in the mail and i threw that on my bike and am now cruising at 210~ sustainably on zwift and it is so quite and smooth! I love it so much!!!

[@thedownunderverse]

You have no friends? Or no friends with an interest in cycling? Please confirm.

[@gcn]

It’s no wonder we talk about tyres so often, thanks for sharing your experience!

[@jansonmur4362]

@thedownunderverse I mean, I wrote "no friends who like cycling" on purpose

[@Stephen-nq5kd]

When Dan said he needed to make a personal apology I thought, for just a moment, it would be for never selecting my caption comments. Alas just another week business as usual.

[@stevenpike7530]

Buy the Chinese stuff direct from the manufacturer, of don’t fall for the marketing & keep turning over the pedals on what you own.

[@tristamrossin7289]

The one upside to expensive bikes is the justification given by the makers, they justify it by it being the latest, cutting edge technology. The beauty of this is that cutting edge is bound by time so ultimately that blindingly good tech we perceive in the latest bikes will be tomorrows cheaper alternative. I think we've recently gone through a bit of a bike evolution which with electric shifting and aero designs which hike up prices, these will slowly become more of the norm and as the market saturates with this tech, the price will ultimately drop.

[@bigsky4evrgood]

Mark the date for this comment. Down? By how much? 50%? 25%? 10% 5%? 1%?

[@randomdude5938]

I left the bike industry in 2007. The most expensive bikes I remember were like 12k. It’s been almost 20 years. Now they are 20k. That’s how time works. I’m confused about the uproar. Expensive bikes have always been expensive.

[@FTA38yearfreeride]

@@randomdude5938 for 1000 Euro you have a much better bike now then for 1000 Euro 20 years ago..but you have to go for rim brakes !!

[@selcukcilek555]

Which bike in 2007 was 12K?

[@FTA38yearfreeride]

@@selcukcilek555 Harley Davidson ?

[@selcukcilek555]

@@FTA38yearfreeride Not funny. As we are talking about bicycles I really want to know WHICH bicycle he remembers were 12K in 2007.

[@selcukcilek555]

@@FTA38yearfreeride Is that now our subject? Was that asked here?

[@The_R_Vid]

Caption: This drum can sure take a pounding. Way better than that gravel bike food delivery device...

[@qualm43]

Buy used. In the USA, just search for pre-owned aluminum Giant Defy. If the bike still has it's dork disk, then it probably wasn't used much.... you can also use a chain checker tool to get an idea of how much it has been ridden.

[@CazzaJen]

But surely the chain gets changed regularly????? Or is that just me 😂

[@31763660]

Not just the bike price, but also the cost of ownership. It's all kind of out of control. I'm out of carbon and only holding onto an old Merckx with mechanical group. I can take care of everything myself. So much more fun to boot.

[@MarcusNeedham]

Are bikes really more expensive if we compare them at the same level of features/performance as in previous decades? For example, isn't a 2024 US$3300 Giant TCR Advanced 2 actually CHEAPER than any 2014 or 2004 bike of similar weight, component quality and brake performance? You'd need to find a high end 2014 bike to match it. We just now have a set of modern features that are far beyond what used to available, and those get expensive quickly (carbon wheels, electronic groupsets, exotic carbon components, etc). The real problem is how much one feels one is expected to spend on a "nice" bike that one is proud to show-up for a club ride on!

[@gcn]

You've got a very interesting point there

[@PsyKeks]

But how do you compare "component quality"? Components get better all the time. So would you say something third tier in the manufacturers line? Or two pieces with equal performance, where the newer one will be lower tier? Also always adjust for inflation. Currently just about everything is more expensive than we were used to. (And if you go for available spending power, of course everything is less affordable today.)

[@bonzobanana1]

Cycling is as cheap or expensive as you want it to be. You can get an old usable bike on freecycle for nothing or you can spend over 10,000 if you want to. There is a bike for every price point. I''m quite happy with entry level bikes myself. Strong, reliable, cheap to maintain but I guess to most too slow.

[@mikeb.9341]

I get the tech development cost a lot, but it's part of the business. However, it's ridiculous how bikes are THAT expensive. How does it cost the same as a motorbike?! The amount of tech, parts, and purposes in a motorbike is absolutely huge compared to a bike. It's insane...

[@LordVarkson]

Sure, but a motorbike isn't human-powered. It can afford to be heavy, chunky and inefficient, the human riding it won't notice. Once a machine is powered by a human, any little inefficiency adds up and becomes noticeable due to the obsessive metrics collection of cyclists and the fact you actually peddle the thing. High end bicycles need to have very tight tolerances, advanced aerodynamic research and cutting edge materials to do their job efficiently.

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

​@@LordVarksonI don't agree. Most bicycles do not adhere to tight tolerances and I'd imagine majority of motorcycles have even tighter tolerances of their engines and other moving parts. I believe aero is not comparable either... the bicycle and rider drag is 20/80%, roughly. And speed of a frame/fork is going to net you 5 watts most at common speeds of the majority of cyclists. Whilst a motorcycle (I have never looked it up), but I guarantee makes up much more than 20% of the aero drag and uses fairings, not to forget the huge difference in speed as well. I respect your point, but, totally disagree.

[@Stephen-nq5kd]

Hearing Dan talk about updating his Zwift made me chuckle thinking about when he mistakenly listed himself at 11cm tall or something like that.

[@eabe60094]

Given how expensive high end bikes are, I find it appalling that the manufacturer’s warranty only applies to the original buyer.

[@charliedillon1400]

I have a cracked Tarmac frame on my wall as art, for that very reason.

[@davethedogdude]

Although people often think DIY costs more than just buying an off the shelf bike, I found it to be the opposite. Instead of paying for a bike, I built up my own from a frame with the exact geometry I wanted that I got on sale with components with the exact specs I wanted which I also got on sale. It took some patience and impulse control, but this allowed me to get a proper bike fit out of the box and build up exactly what I wanted instead of a more expensive compromise that I would have ended up swapping components on anyway. It still wasn't "cheap" but it was better than buying even a direct-to-consumer bike with similar specs and replacing the cranks and stem at the very least. I realize that not everyone wants to wrench their own bike or wait to collect all the components to do so like that though.

[@ohwhoaitzjoe]

I skate too, bust mostly only longboard now. He’s somewhat right that analog boards aren’t crazy in price but electric skateboards have both become more accessible with prices because of all the competition in the space but at the same time there are some absurdly expensive electric skateboards and longboards with so much tech that they cost quite a bit.

[@rudolphpyatt4833]

I question whether so much of this modern technology is actually necessary for anyone who doesn’t race. Marginal gains, especially aero; and micro seconds gained by electronic shifting; hydraulic disc brakes; are just not relevant outside the racing context (or wannabe racers). The reality is that the bike manufacturers spread the cost of those features up and down the product line. A good basic bike, new, doesn’t require so much expensive technology. The bicycle is a solved problem. I know there are some brands that don’t sponsor professional teams (State, Retrospec) that offer simpler bikes. But I think there IS room for a company to fill that space.

[@robenever1]

I’m seriously at a loss with you guys. Motorbikes manufacturers still have entry level models in every country. They don’t have the latest tech at all, yet continue to bring people in. Has the tech gone up on them? Sure, but it’s just a translation from the auto industry like fancy screens and such. Comparing a bicycle with recreational uses and marketed as a luxury item to a motorcycle is ludicrous. Motorcycles exist in every single price point, bicycles not anymore.

[@bozhidarstanimirov643]

Exactly. Just posted a comment on that. The difference between the mentioned 9mil road bike and an entry level road bike is such that if the same difference is applied to bicycles, there need to be road bikes for around 200 whatever currency you chose and even less. Which is almost impossible to find.

[@matt_acton-varian]

​@@bozhidarstanimirov643Are you trying to compare an entry level road bike to a 50cc moped or a 125cc tourer or sport base model? Because comparisons are a bit more complicated than that. You can pick up very cheap bicycles, often hybrid bikes, for £$€200 or less, just not from the performance orientated brands. In the UK Halfords stock such bikes from brands such as Carrera and Apollo, whilst another budget bike store stocks a brand called Ammaco. Basic functional equipment that serves a purpose as a means of personal transportation. Entry level road bikes still have some form of performance orientated design given the use of drop handlebars and narrower slick or semislick tyres.

[@themightymite5688]

My comment got deleted because it's hard to detect facetiousness over the Internet, but the point I wanted to make was that for us who complain about the high prices of bikes, we're not the buyers of expensive bikes. That instead are the people who can afford those bikes, who are a proportionally much smaller portion of people who are invested in this discussion. The problem, as others have noted, is that people keep providing companies the incentive to make expensive bikes by buying them, and so the problem could be "solved" by simply not buying those bikes. But those who could make that difference are probably not in this room, and not in this discourse. That makes this solution almost a non-starter, as you would have to find other ways to compel these people not to buy the expensive bikes and keep propping up that aspect of the industry. Are you, or anyone, going to tell someone how they should spend their money? If you wanted to get more "real", the issue here isn't with the bike industry anymore than it is with any industry that depends on neoliberal markets. The problem is much broader. To fix this, you'd have to dismantle capitalism and consumerism as a cultural ethos. Which...I mean, if you have a way to do that, many people would listen.

[@colinmaceachern9]

Stop promoting them .

[@lwittrock1]

There are many examples of consumers driving prices down by holding off on new purchases till prices drop. It does require a large enough number of people holding off on buying to get the industry to feel the pain of very low sales, but unless you get a mass of people participating in the effort it will not work. What makes it difficult are people with means who aren't affected and don't care.

[@trevorknowles7912]

I’m glad people buy expensive bikes because in 10 years I will buy them for less than half price. I’m so happy with my 10 yr old bikes.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Ya don't have to wait 10 years! Just one or two these daze.

[@flamesdivde]

Caption completion. I wish we had a broken drum instead. It can’t be beaten!

[@philiphumphrey1548]

I think the bike industry have lost the plot. They're increasingly concentrating on the top end of the market and the latest racing technology, and ignoring the ordinary cyclist who just wants something robust, reliable and easy to fix for getting from A to B. Most of the latest innovations are of very dubious value to ordinary cyclists. As for buying second-hand, the problem with modern bikes is that they are not really designed to last, replacement parts are likely to be hard to find, absolutely specific for that make of bike, and very very expensive.

[@charliedillon1400]

Never buy anything with proprietary parts (seatposts, headsets, BB, etc.) Also, never buy any road bike with some squishy frame shock built into it, ever.

[@plantfuelled8912]

It doesn't matter if you have the latest and greatest bike, the speed you can buy is very minimal. It's better to ride something more humble, simply copy a pro/ex-pro training bike that they spend their own money on. You can still get a perfectly nice bike with an alloy frame, light alloy wheels, a 2nd tier group-set with rim brakes, tubes and mech shifting the bling up with a CF seat-post, nice saddle some titanium bolts, easily 8kg and everything you need. Huge fun crushing someone on their £10,000 mega-bike with a £2000-3000 alloy bike.

[@lukewalker1051]

I ride a 2012 Specialized Roubaix SL3 rim brake with Sram Rival, Campy wheels, 105 cranks, FSA carbon handlebar. Basically the frame Cancellara won the Paris Roubaix on the same year. I am on my second one. Easy to make bikes cheaper. Regress them back to aluminum wheels and rim brakes and no electronic shifting. Modern aluminum frames in fact are excellent. It is not about the bike. Its the body that is aero or not. My bike weighs 17 lbs. I have ridden uber stiff $10K race bikes with disc brakes and carbon wheels. Durianrider speaks truth as much as he is maligned and dismissed. I prefer my Roubaix and wouldn't in fact own a boat anchor heavy late model Roubaix with electronic shifting and future shock...a money grab by Specialized and waste of money for the consumer. Part of the problem is, bike makers make bank on ignorant consumers. Same with automobiles btw. The public is largely clueless outside their chosen field.

[@ex3qtor]

The problem with used bikes is that they`re not future proof. Cars from 10 years ago are not much different than current models and will ride the same way and you can add a gizmos such as rear facing cameras etc. Bikes on the other hand are quite different. Quick releases, 25mm tire clearences and rim brakes are the technology of yesteryears and now are completely obsolete. Plus the problem is with carbon itself as people are afraid of internal cracks invisible on the outside. So the choices in entry level bikes are: - overpriced brand names, - chinese imoports you have to build yourself or - uncomfortable, unupgradeable and potentially dangerous used oldish machines This should get easier when more and more current bikes get sold on the second hand market.

[@dietersanchez203]

you've got a point for the general audience I recently bought, however, a used 2015 Trek Lexa, not made for racing, not made for top level riders, a mid level bike that came with Sora back in the day. The previous owner installed a full 105 groupset (5700, launched in 2010). Wheels and tires were crap, so I got a pair of Michelin Lithion 4 30c and a GIPIEMME refurbished wheelset. Bike feels brand new and modern. I can find spare parts and accesories literally WHEREVER. I wouldn't call it obsolete. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people out there are in a very similar position. I think you are a bit too pesimist with the latter option being "uncomfortable, unupgradable and potentially dangerous oldish machines", or you're just lacking some barrio, as ppl say around here.

[@brotherfranciz]

Simply not true. Stop with the fear mongering. It's actually hilarious that you are trying to say older bike models are obsolete. All the things you listed are NOT obsolete and can still be purchased at your local bike shop or online.

[@ex3qtor]

@@brotherfranciz Can you buy a rim brake, road bike frame with through axles and 32mm tyre clearence?

[@michaelmartin3400]

The most recent tech drives up bike prices not just in manufacturing, but also in service. I work in a shop where we recently had to r eplace a dropperpost cable on an electric mountainbike' we had to dissassemble everything and it took over 8 hrs of labor! As far as used bikes, here in the states the market is flooded with 10-15 yr old bikes that nobody wants because of the old tech! Just don't be an early adopter and you can save some money!

[@EspressDelivery]

I think what I want here is to make cycling so ingrained in our cultural identity that we don’t identify as “cyclists” in the same way that someone who owns a car doesn’t identify as a “car driverist” This means building bike frames that are comfortable in regular clothing, sturdy and don’t require maintenance and don’t involve breaking a sweat on every journey The second part means drawing from technology that has served the test of time. Bike parts that are cheaper to source and maintain beat the more sophisticated technologies. By supporting the second hand market, we keep recycling this technology and then demand for its maintenance will increase and hopefully drive the price down for other entrants

[@IsaacRC]

2nd hand bike as an affordability solution: indeed my second hand vintage road bike is no doubt the best bike i owned but only because I was able to hack it from head to toe with specs that not a single actual brand sells on bikes (combining road plates with mtb 11-42 pinions, 165 crank arms, etc etc) and that is only possible because there’s still an industry that supports the classic standards which are most affordable than ever and BTW which GCN has been burying over and over (“rim brakes are dead” etc etc). And even then, the reality is that second hand sizes it’s just not an option when even the industry today oversizes bikes and/or directly doesn’t offer small sizes, IMO mainly due to the fixed 700c wheel size ( yeah some brands offers proportional wheel size but probably not available in normal bike shops or far away from budget friendly, or a 90’s 650 wheel small size Cannondale road bike but if you’re not living in USA prepare to pay for flying just some old welded metal tubes) and that’s speaking only on the road bike side, IMO every beginner cyclist should be able to afford a lightweight and good looking road bike with a true sized geometry and simple mechanics (including uphill gears for normal people to commute).

[@RichardMo-p9h]

I think that (very) good bikes are (too) expensive and I would never spend 4-5k+ for a bike. But I love great bikes and I just managed to built up an amazing road bike (Lapierre Aircode[new]/Mavic SL45 Disc [2nd hand]/105di2[new]) für sub 3k. The bike industry is struggling at the moment and therefore there are a lot of amazing offers out there. You just have to look around and be patient! *And know how to built up a bike **but for this you have a lot of great GCN videos

[@WaechterDerNacht]

In regards to second hand bikes, since it's my problem aswell with second hand bikes: I challenge you guys to find a second hand bike, within Bath, that actually fits Connor. Record the time used and please let me know how it went.

[@SteevyTable]

Caption: 🎶 Iiiiii don't wanna race, I just wanna bang on the drum all day.🎶

[@rickrodriguez2097]

I think the big miss here in this discussion is the lack of ability to select your desired groupset without having to upgrade the wheelset. They force you to pay 3000 more when the next groupset only cost 1100 more

[@gosling999]

Going back a few years I remember when £1200 was considered the top end for bike prices. I couldn't afford anything that cost that much. Funny how that is considered entry level. I've bought used bikes for quite a while now, it means I can get Ultegra rather than having to settle for Sora equipped new bikes.

[@StuFromOz99]

Probably the biggest problem to people wanting to go to a new faster lighter bike from second hand, is simply the problem of carbon fibre and way that it is harder to see what is safe/undamaged, and that is not actually cracked and in danger of being dangerous.

[@mcmocha]

Sorry gents, the argument for higher prices doesn’t pass the bs test unfortunately… the high tech high price angle doesn’t figure in context that high-tech has been incorporated for well over a decade… The only real new addition is the power-meter system, which doesn’t cover the exorbitant increases… as an example the high end Pinarello full stacked with di2 would retail for $12k in 2014, 2019 - $17k, 2024 - $25k…there has been very little tech evolution to warrant a $10k increase…even cycling shoes prices are absurd today, $600…really…and you know which manufacturers I’m talking about… the initial comment Si made about the industry shooting itself in the foot is as accurate as could ever be argued…

[@mattwedd2511]

#CaptionCompetition - Ineos: "Well it's not the podium we were after, but a podi-drum will do"

[@stevenmanns248]

My dads prostate cancer spread to his bones and he survived for 16 very uncomfortable years. My sympathy and best wishes go to the Hoy family. All the best Matie

[@kipcc3918]

I only bought a brand new whole bike once, and never again. It was cheaper (under 500$) but I quickly caught an upgrade bug, after studying on how to get decent fit, I was able to assemble a great 10speed 105 Semi aero frame under 8kg, Most stuff bought used or Aliexpress. Now, I only buy either a frame and fork only or a decent used bike where I know I can work on it easily and I already have the tools to work on it. 😁 Some coop’s are hiding hidden gems or ebay have some decent stuff. I only buy parts new but never a whole new bike again.

[@blackmairst]

concerning the question of "who'd buy a "classical" bike with rimbrakes and mechanical gear shifters but otherwise state-of-the-art groupset / wheels / tyres...? - and EXTERNAL CABLES" - that'd be ME - in a heartbeat! I so much hate being patronized by manufacturers into buying electronic groupsets, everything fully integrated, hard or impossible to exchange due to the custom nature of e.g., stem, handlebars, seat posts - for somebody who loves to customize and fix his own bikes, it's a NIGHTMARE

[@didzakov]

On expensive bikes: - If we stop buying them for a limited time prices would fall to "normal" levels On waxing the chain: - Same as waxing your legs, simply NO

[@bezlistosnypozeraczkebabow6513]

Problem with buying second hand bikes is that it's difficult to find one with your exact geometry and size

[@MitchHollander-13]

#captioncompetition Keep bangin the drum brotha! The vibration jams the motor in Tadej's pedals!

[@mt5150e]

It says everything about cycling that they’re calling integrated cables as “tech”! Running a small tube through a larger tube is not high tech! Ffs!

[@a1white]

I like how GCN is now split between the old guard who most definitely don’t wax their chains and the more techy newer crew who wax and want to constantly tell you all about it! Personally, it seems like a massive faff to me. I did move to Silca Synergetic last year though. Pricey, but it lasts absolutely ages. Incredible stuff.

[@ephronx]

From an engineering perspective it is expensive to make the mould. To make a bike in that mould is really cheap. Carbon fibre is not actually that expensive once you have the mould. So what gives? Most manufacturers have moved on from making a mould and incrementing on that mould in favour of gluing (epoxy) a few tubes together with cnc'd lugs to prototype new frames then making a mould. So actually carbon bikes, from a development perspective, are likely to be cheaper than other materials - e,g, hydro formed ali etc. From my perspective this is marketing mecca. In many respects we're suckered into believing that carbon is more exclusive, but really it most likely is not...sure there is a lot more wastage, breakage and most manufacturers offer great replacement warrenties...I am still in favour of the n-2 model / components - trickle down tech in action....:)

[@Hardi26]

I made better device to remove excess wax from chain/break it lose. It's better because it can be wrapped inside of a big garbage bag while using. No flakes of wax fling everywhere. Floor stays almost clean. That's the whole point in waxing. Stay clean. Therefore the device shown in Hack/Bodge section is not a hack. Needs to be redesigned.

[@DocksideCurmudgeon]

Don’t get sucked into the $$$ new stuff. Ride some classic steel ✅🚴

[@bkirkwd52]

I recently purchased a 2019 USED Cervelo C5 with mechanical Ultegra, hydraulic discs, Quark crank power meter, and 40 mm Reynolds carbon wheels for $2,100 USD. It is in excellent condition!

[@busterrabbit]

Stop buying new bikes. With road cycling you hardly ever wear anything out, a bike should last for may years. Of course they keep changing group sets, bottom brackets etc. so you can't get spares after a couple of years, it's a racket.