The Problem of Evil - Hamza Yusuf

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[@IslamOnDemand]

@Ciesseyn The reasons for suffering may not always be apparent to us. Allah's wisdom is far beyond human comprehension. We must also maintain the proper perspective on what is the true reality. A "Riyad-us-Saliheen" hadith says that on Judgment Day the believer who experienced the MOST suffering in this world would be dipped into Paradise for just a moment, taken out, and would testify that they did NOT suffer for even one second in the world because they now see their ETERNAL rewards.

[@danish.imran10]

It's a betrayal. It's so easy to see it. In Quran, Allah says that you won't be able to properly account for for the day you spent in duniya. Of course we won't remember our suffering. We won't remember our parents our relatives on the judgment day. We won't remember the lives we led until they will be shown to us. We won't be the person we are here right now. It's the picture Quran paints of the judgment day and of afterlife. So it's a betrayal. Of course we won't remember our suffering. One wouldn't need to heaven's charms for that. Allah would have done it already for them. It's like now if you think about your life or it's sufferings 10 15 years ago, you wouldn't remember much, hell you will laugh on those horrid little problems. Because it's a betrayal. You are not the person you were at that time. In that moment this suffering, who knows had caused so much damage. Just because you're going to get a reward at the end of it doesn't make the suffering justified. It's a trap. Most people fail to see it. Think of a child, he's violated, and at the end of the act he's given a chocolate. And this example is not that contrived. Think of countless people and children who have gone through sufferings like these, and Islam and it's preachers comfort them with the justifications of heaven every day. It's atrocious.

[@IslamOnDemand]

@Ciesseyn God would never punish anyone who doesn't deserve it. Afterall, He is the All-Knowing and the Most Just. These are 2 of his 99 attributes. Some others are: The All-Aware, The Most Compassionate, The Knower of Subtleties, The Wise, and The Loving One. We are all in good hands!

[@786AbdulSalamKhan]

According to the Māturīdī school: Qadar refers to the foreknowledge of Allāh, so everything was written on Lawh al Mahfūz because it is in the knowledge of Allāh. This is opposed to the Asha`rī school which holds that Qadar refers to Allāh's decree of everything written of Lawh al Mahfūz, and so everything written on there must be acted out. Qadā refers to Allāh bringing the general ordering of things into existence, for the Asha`rīs this is related to Allāh's pre-eternal will. The Māturīdī position on predestination and free will is more superior to the Asha`rī position on predestination and free will. Allāh knows all that we would do in our free choice, and there is no falsehood in His knowledge. We have free choice, but Allāh creates our actions by putting us in the position to act, and giving us the energy to perform our actions. Iblīs is really our enemy, and not our enemy in name only. I am only a novice in philosophy, but it seems that the philosophers offer a more satisfying explanation to the Sūfī concept of Wahdat al Wujūd (oneness of existence) compared to the Mutakallimūn, and also offer a more satisfying solution to the problem of evil compared to the Asha`rīs: The only thing the Mutakallimūn seem to get right is that existence is not the same as essence, and so oneness of existence does not mean oneness of essence. Existence is univocal, whereas essence is not univocal. Everything is good inasmuch as it exists. Allāh is pure existence, meaning pure goodness. Existence is gradational, because goodness is gradational i.e. we measure a thing's goodness by comparing it to a higher goodness. Evil is the privation (absence) of goodness, and pure evil cannot actually exist. Allāh willing evil, means He allows for there to be absence of His goodness in creation. Allāh wills evil, not for the sake of evil, but for the sake of the greater good.

[@yaseenpv1883]

Indeed, evil is the absence of good --- the way darkness is the absence of light.

[@ehsankhorasani_]

a 1yr old child that is prevented to eat chocolate will see your action as evil. is that also the absence of good ? no that's wrong, because the child doesn't know that it's beneficial for him, but still see it as an evil action

[@IslamOnDemand]

@Ciesseyn My statement "God would never punish anyone who doesn't deserve it" was in reply to your question about a "non-believer who grew up where people don't believe". Regarding children suffering, that's not punishment because children aren't accountable for their actions (until puberty according to Islam). Their suffering is a trial for others. Also children are given immediate entry into Paradise. And the hadith I mentioned before reconciles suffering with the ETERNAL rewards of Paradise.

[@zafthedon]

the only way we know what Good is because we need evil to distinguish from it. Otherwise we wouldn't know what Good is. Evil/bad is the absence of Divine mercy. Justice is another thing we wouldn't be able to be fair if we didn't know what unfair was.

[@rikschoonbeek]

I wrote about the same thing, than saw your post.

[@rikschoonbeek]

So, that means God is actually in need of evil..?

[@aliarsalan2422]

@@adnanabdull4h So he DID create it...

[@luciddoggo5094]

First 5 minutes are sidestepping the arguement to reveal the real argument: "God has a greater plan, just trust me bro"

[@PayChkSlaveRebellion]

that was just amazing

[@monkmonk3042]

wow Mashallah!

[@asystematec]

Thanks

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn Also, there is alot of guidance out there... Yes N. Korea does exist, but prophets/ religion are everywhere. That inherent desire to reach God is reflected in the fact that God is present in (almost) every culture, and I already gave you the verse of the Quran about universiality (and there are more).. also note that nearly every religion (before Muhammed) is saying the same thing: kill the ego, love your neighbour, there is something after life, there is an end of time etc.

[@rikschoonbeek]

We need evil in order to be able to perceive it's opposite, like you can not distinguish a white light when all there is is white light. There needs to be a polarity in order to perceive separate things. There needs to be non light, in order to be able to perceive light. A person who is free all his life won't grasp that freedom as well as a person who was first very restricted, captive, but who has broken free from that prison. That last person will understand freedom much better, and needed the experience of being restricted to get to that understanding.

[@IslamOnDemand]

@Ciesseyn God does not force people to not believe in the same way that He does not force them to believe. So its hard to say that disbelief itself is a punishment. As far as the level of Paradise, this is a question for a scholar. But in my OPINION since a child is not accountable it seems unjust to reduce his or her standing. The general rule is that they will be raised to the level of their parents, assuming they make it.

[@xing166]

everything haves a consequence and consequence for disbelieving is mentioned.. God made humans and He can do whatever He wants. still so many prophets and messengers came to this world to teach what is wrong and what is correct... still people not listening throughout all the time... only some listens and some of them understands the truth... as we know this world is place of test, so the disbelievers fails to accomplish there mission to recognizes God.

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn P.S. Islam is the only religion which doesn't claim exclusivity (unlike Christianity). Hamza constantly stresses this point throughout this lecture series. Rumi a Muslim Mystic/ poet points out that "you can tie a hundred knots in a string and yet the string still remains one", and also "The movement of waves, day and night, coming from the sea. You sea the waves, but, how strange! You do not see the sea". I hope one day you will find this ocean without a shore and I can meet you there

[@Ciesseyn]

@jayyy689 I wouldn't call me an atheist even though I'm not religious. I guess the best word is "agnostic". I still have my doubts and I'm still studying the subject. We can continue this discussion on our own. Just send me a PM.

[@Ciesseyn]

@IslamOnDemand So the real punishment, you mean, is that he or she is a non-believer? Regarding children entrance in paradise before puberty: I've heard that but I've also heard that children who are non-believer will not enjoy the same paradise as the others, is that correct?

[@Ciesseyn]

Good explanation but the problem of evil still remains. What about natural disasters and stuff like that (where there's no human impact and no one is making a benefit of these people's suffering)?

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn I didn't think that example of a job was comprehensive enough especially in the context of the Quranic verse saying that you may detest a thing though it may be good for you, for the thing being detested is not just possibly good for someone else (the person who then got that job) but is good for you... later in the lecture series Hamza explains that both abundance and want are tests from God, the one to see if your grateful and the other to see if you can persevere and trust God.

[@danish.imran10]

Even if we think that evil is the absence of divinity, the problem still remains. Why is their evil? Why God decreed some events to have khair and others the absence of his divine attributes. Mr. Yusuf just gives another ideology about the understanding of evil but doesn't really solve the problem. This definition only reaffirms that God chooses to have evil as he wishes. As he is in the end the sole controller of who on a given day gets to have a divine abundance or an absence. And when you say that it's the nature of things. Like to have good you need to have bad. To someone to gain a job another must lost it. It's a terrible cop out. Who designed that nature? Are you trying to say that God is bound by certain principles? Because it is either that or that God chose to design this principle, this nature that we have.

[@danish.imran10]

3:40 it's like disconnecting God from the happenings on the world. It's like putting the blame on humans, much like Christian doctrine. That they are free beings and via their free will they choose to have presence or absence of these divine attributes, creating good and evil respectively. While whether humans have free will is another debate, let's try to imagine the kind of suffering that has no human volition involved. Thousands of people dying from earthquakes, or tsunamis, or cancer, or famines caused by nature, or babies born with defects, all that suffering just because God chose to not have his divine attributes like justice, or rahma to be present there?

[@shiro_yasha]

There’s simple counter to this answer: That the God is not Omnipresent!! So there are places where God has no authority! Since absence of God is Evil!

[@imran98T]

God wouldn't be Omnipresent if he wasn't aware of that evil. but God is all-knowing and has the authority to judge the people who have done evil and decided to absence God and his Wisdom from their decisions.

[@Ciesseyn]

@IslamOnDemand So, more concretely, what does this mean? That these people who "experienced the MOST suffering" eventually will end up in paradise? And what about the non-believer who grew up in a country where people normally don't believe and who was not raised as an believer (or Muslim) or not even taught about Islam or any other monotheistic religion?

[@xing166]

God judge every soul accordingly (according to there conditions).. He is the most just, you dont have to take tension He is the Creator, when nothing was there He made all, He knows everything more than anyone who is created. so please dont try to judge God.

[@saifhaitham4088]

God said in the Quran that if any person has not received the message or had received a wrong version of it, then they either go to paradise automatically or are judged on the moral choices they made.

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn Although one does not have the opportunity to follow one of Gods prophets they still are able to get into heavan (ie. through the use of free will) which is ultimate compensation. A good story to illustrate this concept of free will/ opportunity/ and Gods infinite mercy: A prositute was thirsty one day when she came upon a well. There she saw a dog who was also thirsty. Out of compassion she decided to give the dog some water and for this act she was granted paradise.

[@Ciesseyn]

@jayyy689 What do you mean by saying "Islam is the only religion which doesn't claim exclusivity"? In other words that a non-muslim can go to paradise - that the belief is not a direct necessity (and is that only regarding these people that never where aware of the "true message")?

[@ramazanhoxha4265]

truth ❤

[@Ciesseyn]

@IslamOnDemand Okay I see. But if we assume that his or her parents doesn't make it because they have denied the truth - where will the child end up then?

[@Rianzq]

Evil means out of knowledge.

[@isayaseen3241]

U own the copyright for these?? To demand no copying??

[@nadzirahshan3975]

When my name is start with khair :)

[@wickedhusky23]

Salam habibi

[@bayreuth79]

I am not convinced by this explanation. Hamza Yūsuf says that _khair_ is the presence of God, whereas as _sharr_ is the absence of God. As far as I am aware Hamza Yūsuf is a Ash'ari and therefore he must believe that good and evil are "hopelessly subjective categories" (Sherman Jackson). In other words, good and evil are not _intrinsic_ properties but merely conceptual designations. God's will- and God's will alone- determines what is good and evil. There is thus nothing objectively wrong with murder or rape for al-Ash'ari. "The only coherent, non-subjective definition of the "good" is what God does" (Abdal Hakim Murad). Now, al-Ash'ari also teaches that secondary causes are illusions of consciousness; and the only cause of all that happens is God. Therefore, whatever happens- good or evil- is must be done by God in his ontological decree. How then is _sharr_ an _absence_ of God?

[@satanscrow8016]

But I wonder; what's all this talk about the Jinn? That is way more history than either J or C.

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn A prophet is sent as guidence in order to help man find God... if you will a stairway to heaven, for it is impossible to ascend this height by oneself... without such guidence one is LOST because ones purpose in life is to find God/ Love/ Peace and without the fullfilment of this inherent desire one will "fill the void" with God knows what Humility is the essence of Islam. To accept that you do not know best. To accept that you need help figuring out this game called life.

[@quantumo2099]

Alhamdulilah

[@MahjoubMouhallef]

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds الحمد لله رب العالمين

[@Ciesseyn]

@IslamOnDemand That is not really an answer to my question. Let's say there is 200 children in the age between 8 to 14, how can they deserve earthquakes, tsunamis etc? I also don't get what you mean by saying "God would never punish anyone who doesn't deserve it." Is really the suffer in this life on earth the punishment? If the answer is yes to that question, it sounds more like the Christian view (specially from some crazy Christian independent churches).

[@xing166]

Sir/Madam, Earthquakes or Tsunami are not the punishments but this world is made the place of test or exam and God puts hurdle in this life to test us in bad times too, so dont take it as punishment, punishment is waiting on the day of judgement when you will reach after your death.

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn Exactly it seems to me that you answered your own questions in the last comment... but ya it's just as IslamOnDemand put it "God would never punish the undeserving... He is All Knowing and All Just"... Mohammed did not claim to bring any new religion... The Koran maintains the unity of religions, "every nation had a Warner."... Islam is no more or no less than the last in the chain of great religions addressed to the peoples of the world....

[@kanizfatima3447]

Okay so ? A man who mom died of cancer after much suffering decided to create a hospital to offer free treatment to cancer patients ❤

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn In regards to the unbelieving person who never had the opportunity. We are all morally accountable because we have free will, and so whatever our country or parents brainwash us with does not rule out our ability to make choices. Like the man who steals to feed his family. He did not do the right thing (ideally) but did the best he could with the choices he had... same with gangsters in Harlem who have to sell drugs... they can still choose to sell drugs honestly or dishonestly.

[@t7u5ebuvduhyye34t]

👌

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn Hey, I just read ur question and its one which I can tell is coming from someone who is dealing with the inherent problems of Christianity. I was once an atheist asking the same questions with the same Christian bagage. You seem like a smart guy so don't do what I did and paint every religion with the same brush as you have rightfully done with Christianity (there some bad gangerster black people, but that is not to say black peope are bad). So in regards to the unbelieving ..Cont'd

[@Ciesseyn]

@jayyy689 Right. "To accept that you need help figuring out this game called life". But the people who will never be able to be helped? Let's say the people of North Korea - the vast majority of them will probably not even know about Islam and just worship the leader. There's a lot of people without guidance in the world - and they are/will fill/filling the inherent desire to "fill the void" with anything.

[@ridha6711]

Ciesseyn people without guidance and understanding of the true Islamic teachings will be given a separate trial on judgement from the rest of humanity and will be given a chance to accept Islam and therefore be saved

[@icceeQueen]

Very good discussion from both of you may God bless you @Ciesseyn @jayyy689

[@MrTAYA87]

He could've devlppd more deeper thn this... He could say tht evil was created to test humanity... And if there were no evil, judgment would nt make any sense... Tht's why God created everythin' to test his mankind how far thy can avoid evil and how far thy can stick to good... And logically speakin', creatin' evil as testing mechanism is an intelligent way to distinguish between th good and evil... So evil in ths case is good cz it's part of testin' process.. It's just lik givin' a gun to somebody and tell him protect urself... If he uses it as a self de fence it s ok but if he abuses it and kill people tht's evil considerin' tht gun itself is evil but only if it's used in th wrong area... I knw he didn't want t put mor philosophy into it and tht s why he wanted t keep things as simpl as possible...

[@jayyy689]

@Ciesseyn As I said before about free will and circumstance. the man who steals to feed his family or the drug dealer who chooses to be honest. I am assuming that there is no religious practices or freedom in North Korea however there is still free will among the populace. Islam believes that parents will be held accountable for what they incept their children with as well as governments to their people. God would never punish the undeserving. He is All Knowing and All Just.

[@Ciesseyn]

@jayyy689 Okay, I see. Please read my latest response to IslamOnDemand which is a question that still remains.

[@Ciesseyn]

@jayyy689 Thanks for all you answers.

[@JAC8934]

I got headdache

[@xing166]

u better watch porn and enjoy life... why the hell you stopped on this video ? just change it

[@onepeace3228]

@@xing166 your comment is unnecessary

[@Abdullah-wn7sw]

😍

[@pakistan010203]

Thanks

[@zakme5638]

Gof bless you