The Problem with Defense Maps

[@actuallizard]

Just wanted to clarify Sealen in Talon's Alight does have a droppable dracoshield. When I was talking about adjustments I would make to Talon's Alight I made it sound like he doesn't. What I was trying to get at was that if Sealen didn't move, it would be important for him to have something droppable, but I should have been more clear!

[@timotheebrasseur6188]

Maybe a minor adjustment you could do is make Sealen's dracoshield not droppable (so you have to steal it) that way the player has to go out of his way to get the dracoshield

[@Shalakor]

@@timotheebrasseur6188 That'd also mean nothing else would need to change, since the chests don't need to be distant when your sole thief is being pulled in different directions. But... it should be mentioned that part of FE7's design is meant to compliment additional challenge through the Tactician Ranking, stopping the reinforcements early is probably meant to be optional since it can tank the exp gain and such.

[@oEllery]

Unhappy Reunion is one of my favorite Fire Emblem maps of all time. I don't have much else to add beyond what you already said in your video.

[@honIino]

yes that and the ryoma map are two of my favorite maps of all time.

[@senny-]

@@honIino Same. They're like a rites of passage. If you can't handle this, you're not ready yet for the rest of the game. Unhappy Reunion definitely took inspiration from Thracia 776's Chapter 14, Open Fire, my favorite Fire Emblem Chapter ever.

[@zena2239]

@@senny- I never played Thracia before, what makes Open Fire such a good map? :o

[@Bardkun776]

@@zena2239 Open Fire takes place in the city of Tahra, under siege by the Granvale Army. What makes it a good map is that there are good rewards are on the enemy side far down on the map. To get the all the rewards means that you must be knowledgable of all the game mechanics and be proactive. Its also a fair map since the players get tools such as balistia and strong units when the chapter begins.

[@golfer435]

Elincia's Gambit as well

[@ferintown6628]

The thing I love most about unhappy reunion is that it’s all a trap, you’re supposed to push the enemies back to their spawn points and go on the offensive, but the game fools you with a good looking defense point, 4 choke points and 2 seige weapons, however you will get overwhelmed fast It’s very fun playing this map with romhacks too, it’s possible with so many casts, the principles stay the same Another fun challenge is to not use Camilla It’s probably my favorite fire emblem map of all time

[@Realag666]

I finished a fresh save Maddening Crimson Flower Run without much problems and only allowed units to on the final map. But Unhappy Reunion took me several hours to beat on hard, not even lunatic and is probably the reason I never finished conquest, because it took so much energy and restarts to beat it.

[@metroidgus]

@@Realag666 first time I finally got to the end of that map, on the last turn a spear fighter hits beruka with a crit at that point i had been trying for 3 days, just told myself I wanted to use only camila for a flier anyways

[@Neogears1312]

Shout outs to Elencia’s gambit being such a good map they sold it to people in fates.

[@Aeivious]

I do love how risky all the rewards are and encourages you to really push out and put your loss condition (elincia) to good use.

[@Yarharsuperpirate]

The big flaw with the map is they kinda give you Haar right away. And he trivializes the map. Its to easy for you to just snipe all the bonus rewards. And the boss with him in just a couple of turns

[@daveash9146]

@@Yarharsuperpirate can confirm, did a playthrough recently and if you dump all your bonus xp into him before the map there is literally nothing that can kill him. The only "threat" is a single thunder sage that has like 55% hit rate on him

[@TwilightWolf032]

​@@Aeivious Oh boy, I love using Elincia to mow down on the boss, but the crossbows are scary. I like Having Nephenee and Braun control the gates to the right while Haar, Lethe and Mordecai go to the left to control the stairs. All that Haar has to do is manage to get the item from the enemy directly bellow the stairs and his part is essentially done. The challenge here is using Leanne, Nealucchi, Marcia and Elincia effectively, since they are the ones that can actually move around in this map. I use the mage (forgot her name) to bait the archers and crossbow users near the ledges, so Elincia can two shot them without fearing a counterattack, then quickly climb over the ledges again with her Canto ability. Have Marcia deal with the archers at close range, then use Leanne to give both an extra turn. After the crossbow users are gone, all I do is leave Elincia within the boss' attack range. He will move to attack any unit that gets close to him, so just use Elincia. He has a Tomahawk, so he can attack at a distance, but if you have given her Bonus EXP in base, she can easily survive his attack. Then just kill him on the next turn. You can even have Heather steal some items from enemies close to him if you mange to get her in range. If you do it right, you can even kill Ludveck before the Crimean Knights arrive at turn 8.

[@zMustheMadMan]

If you give resolve to ilyana in part 1, she has it in part 2, so i then give it to nephenee so she has resolve and wrath... the 1vs100 speaks for itself.

[@xenofes2]

I think one problem with certain defense maps is how they fit in narratively. In that main FE7 defense map you used, you're just defending the throne. There's no legitimate reason that Hector would have to give up if the throne was lost, realistically they would just keep fighting. Other maps have better defense points, like having to defend Nils or Zephiel in FE7.

[@actuallizard]

This is a good point. Even the merlinus defense chapter prior to this one is a more logical objective

[@diooverheaven6561]

You see it was very comfortable throne

[@cheryl9809]

Speaking of zephiel, rng based side objective defend maps amirite

[@actuallizard]

@@cheryl9809 So true bestie

[@hansgretl1787]

Also, they should justify why you "win" after X amount of turns. That one defend map in PoR where Ilyana joins is a good example, because after the turn count expires, a binch of Laguz show up to kill all the enemies. On the other hand, in Elincia's Gambit in Radiant Dawn, the boss just kinda gives up after 15 turns, or think about how Vaida just sits there in that one survive chapter of FE 7, and decides arbitrarily after so many turns to retreat for no reason.

[@ShursGarden]

My personal favorite defense map is chapter 8 of Path of Radiance. Shinon and Gatrie had just left, and the game immediately throws you into a scenario where they'd be most useful. Additionally, they have a new recruitable character in Ilyana, making you have to stretch out to the left side of the map to pick her up.

[@abyssion8]

Yeah this was my first Fire Emblem, and this map stuck with me forever. Solid gameplay-story integration with how much they make you the player feel the pain of losing those members. Ilyanna isn't the only side objective. You also want to kill the boss to the south for his band and iirc a gem.

[@ShursGarden]

@@abyssion8 the band only exists on repeat playthroughs, actually. There's no reason to do so your first go round other than the gem.

[@joshuabonesteel2303]

Yeah, the problem is that if you want to go for the boss, the best unit for that is Tatiana. Thus making your defense force even weaker.

[@joshuabonesteel2303]

@The Legacy of Gaming It works because even though she is going on the offensive, she is still helping the defenders due to the fact that she is holding a side all by herself. The issue is that with her gone, the other two sides have to hold. They just don't have the troops to spare, and a lot of your units are pretty squishy.

[@tommycrawford1183]

I love this map so much. It’s my second favorite behind Path of Radiance chapter 5. Tellius is my favorite two games in the series by a good margin. The map design overall is excellent.

[@4137Swords]

One of my favorite defense maps was Tiki's Paralogue in Awakening. There are no chokepoints, so you have to make them yourself with a wall of your own units. Normally this would suck, because your squishy units would be forced into situations where they just die, but since the enemy focuses on Tiki if there's any sort of gap, and will only attack you if there's no way to reach her, you can strategize when and where to move your units.

[@Gronnwolf]

I know Elincia's Gambit can turn into "End Turn Simulator" especially if using Haar to max capacity, but it's still one of the most goated defense maps just for the map design and options the player has at the time

[@leowulf5280]

I got my first clear of that mission by having Haar kill the archers close to the boss whom Elincia promptly murder stunned twice in a row.

[@1stCallipostle]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 They're Jagen users. You can't reason with them.

[@hajoeijgenraam295]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 Most of the other units on that map are just not that good long term. And you can steal stuff just fine even when thrashing about with haar. He does some hit and runs with help from leanne and elincia, thinning out the enemy for you thief to come in.

[@Maragidyne555]

@@1stCallipostle why would using your best tool be a bad thing

[@1stCallipostle]

@@Maragidyne555 Because it's a tool you generally have to throw away later. You both have the potential to gain more by not using it, and you have to be much more interesting to boot Now in the case of Haar who doesn't fall off (but also doesn't really count) He's just a super duper boring choice that breaks everything for a while

[@meguca201]

This video just reminded how fucking amazing Conquest was and by all rights surpasses map design in other FE by miles. It really was so much fun seeing how every single map was thoroughly thought out and had interesting mechanics going on.

[@PedroIgori]

Conquest was amazing map design too bad the story and characters dropped the ball

[@BeautifulGaston]

One map I always enjoy in Three Houses is the final chapter of White Clouds, where you are on defense against Edelgard. It's not strictly defense as you do have to kill her to win, but the unrelenting waves and precarious start makes it feel like a desperate last stand. The high density of powerful bosses like the Death Knight and allies adds to the scale of the battle, one of the maps that 3h pulls off with flying colors.

[@BigKlingy]

To me, that map always came across as a more mechanically interesting version of Elincia's Gambit. And this is coming from someone who LIKES Elincia's Gambit.

[@slufffyg503]

That ones definitely one of the best defense maps out there. Its scale and number of objectives really makes it feel like the climactic final battle of white clouds. Not to mention it having its own exclusive song was great.

[@vivil2533]

Honestly I think defend works more as a lose condition, rather than a win condition, if you know what I mean.

[@ebongatseabong202]

It doesn’t really work for me at all because you usually just stride up the middle to kill edelgard at around turn 4~5 which ends the map making focusing on all other objectives pointless, I have over 2000 hours in that game (sadly) and I didn’t even know Catherine/Shamir shows up if you kill Hubert

[@crocworks]

Thracia 776's chapter 14 "Open Fire" is my favorite defense map in the whole series. You're under siege with ballistae all around you, but there are some incredible valuables that you need to bring a specific flier character to. You could play it safe by staying inside the walls out of range, but you'd be missing out on some really valuable goodies, and some of the better chokepoints are actually in range of the ballistae. There are also huge reinforcements that come towards the end, which really heightens the feeling of trying to retreat back as huge waves keep coming at you.

[@JJSquirtle]

I feel like it's a map that only works in the limited economy of Thracia where balancing your army's conditions with your urge to be a loot goblin due to the low income giving the map a real push and pull sort of tug of war dynamic since in other games you'd just skip most of the loot there. Just shows how heads up the combat designers were for Thracia's mechanical quirks

[@joshuabonesteel2303]

My favorite defense map was near the end of part 3 in Radiant Dawn. While it is not terribly hard to hold out, seeing as how you can just hold the ledges and the laguz can't do anything other than run into your marshall, but near the end Ike and company come in and unless you have been doing crazy stuff with the dawn brigade (doubtful) you are going to be making a quick retreat to stay out of their range. I liked it because you are not supposed to win that map which was a first for me. Also, I liked the rock trap mission due to the fact that even though you have the advantage of terrain and boulders, the enemy troops are so numerous that it takes all you have just to hold choke points.

[@thesinistermaki3504]

I agree with what you said a lot. My favorite map in all of the games is Chapter 19: Last Hope in Sacred Stones. It's one of those maps that has lots of powerful reinforcements for several turns and is fog of war. I don't know how many people feel about this map, so I thought I'd bring it up here. I do know that you can warp Mansel in the chest room to cheese the battle, but it really hits you as a difficult (and fun) map otherwise. This also makes a lot of sense story-wise to top it off

[@Picledude]

Hey man Just dropping in to say that since discovering your channel I've been binging several of your videos. I really enjoy your work, KZbin is seriously lacking in good analysis of tactical games like FE. Keep it up! Cheers!

[@Hadosama]

Chapter 10 of conquest to me is easily the best defend map in the series and one of the best chapters in the series. Say what you want about Conquests story, it had some AMAZING map design (along with some crappy ones)

[@paperluigi6132]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 the Dragon Vein adds to the experience. When Takumi pops it, that’s when you have to pull back and really focus on defending.

[@supergoodadvice853]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 The same could be said for using Camilla for the majority of kills, opposed to the rest. If Takumi doesn't use the dragon vein, then the map just slows down.

[@patrick5185]

Hope your channel blows up, your FE content is amazing and I plan on watching your other videos when I get the chance ❤

[@CarbonMalite]

What helps these missions feel exciting is when they have multiple waves to them that each force you to make different decisions, rather than just having respawns you deal with when they come in. Conq's has so many moments when you just have to high tail it, and every action influences how well you do when the final wave hits. It forces you to scramble and that is the perfect emotion you want in a map where the player is on the back foot.

[@elji-w3k]

One thing I’ll definitely give to FE7 is that it does have some very experimental map design, which means you can get some good maps out of it from time to time. Kinship’s Bond is one of the best defend maps in the series, giving the player incentives to go to each corner of the map, those being recruiting Rath before he gets ganged up on, recruiting a very worthwhile flier in Heath, visiting a secret shop for buyable Physics as well as Barrier and Torch for staff rank grinding, pick the chest with the only Brave Axe in the game, and lastly to defeat Eubans and end the map early, you could say this makes it a glorified kill boss map, but it’s miles more interesting than the dullness of the likes of ch15 and FE5 ch14. It’s interesting to point out that FE7 is when IS really started experimenting with Defend maps when it was also around this time that Kaga did the same with Berwick Saga, which released around a year and a half later, with 6 of the 15 main story maps being defend maps. Chapter 5-M is arguably the best one, it’s also kill boss, but it takes a while to kill him, and your castle defense is done for if you focus on him initially (you also have to get past ballistae). You also have a million side objectives, as is tradition in Berwick, you have to talk to an armor knight with your lord to recruit him for that map (but all the civilians in the map must survive in order to recruit him permanently), your jagen must spend the first 3 turns visiting a village (meaning he’s inactive during that time), your healer and female bow knight both need to talk to units in the map as well, your thief of choice needs to search spots in the map for items and you have to capture an enemy thief near the houses in the city you’re defending. There is a house you can visit that allows you to warp a single unit next to the boss, which is a good idea, bc he holds a collector’s item you can trade for cash. All in all it’s a very hectic map with good rewards for doing all the side objectives. I actually really dislike defend maps myself, but it would be dishonest to pretend there aren’t any good ones

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

I do like Kinships bond, but it's barely even a defend map

[@MrStarman926]

Unhappy Reunion feels so perfectly designed I feel like it’s borderline a happy accident. I don’t know how they did it. Every turn of that map feels deliberate and unique and memorable. Not a second of downtime.

[@nehmann674]

Sure, Battle Before Dawn is one of the most unfair Maps in FE7, but it is also the only defense Map in the Game you can't win by doing nothing, and on lower difficulties it can even be fun.

[@actuallizard]

I agree! Battle Before Dawn can be a very fun map in Eliwood and Hector normal, its mostly HHM where Battle Before Dawn's unfairness hurts my enjoyment of the map. Unfortunately, that's also the difficulty I do most of my replays on.

[@padamoce7642]

The thing is, in lower difficulties most of the time you can just send a regular unit against an army and make it come out completely overpowered. Too easy to abuse

[@intensellylit4100]

I played it on hector normal, still wasn't fun

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

@@padamoce7642 true, but the map design of Battle before Dawn doesn't really allow that.

[@wazzledog1007]

All these years I thought I was weird for liking battle before dawn.

[@thoughtfulinsanity3050]

I just played unhappy reunion for the first time yesterday (I started on hard classic mode and stubbornly clung to it). It was one of the most stressful and fun experiences I've had in a video game in a long time.

[@TheShiningEnergy]

how many of your units died?

[@thoughtfulinsanity3050]

@@TheShiningEnergy I don't remember. It's been a year.

[@TheShiningEnergy]

@@thoughtfulinsanity3050 oh, ok. fair.

[@reubenbailey7491]

Fe8's chapter 19 is an absolute golden standard when it comes to defend chapters for me. Obviously there are many ways you can cheese it but if anybody hasn't tried beating it without moving Mansel to someplace better I would highly recommend it. There are some things that the fog can do to make it feel a little unfair, for example, I think if you don't deal with someone from the right side of the map they can kill Mansel on the last turn which is... eh. Other than that, though, it makes ironman attempts of it an absolute blast because of how much of a bloodbath it can be and can force you to use what little you have left to take on the last chapters of the game. I think one ironman the only units I had left (Besides obviously the twins) was Gerik, Innes, Syrene and a buncha untrained scrubs. so I legitimately had to do an Excemblem and deploy untrained fodder just to take hits and it allowed me to see some units in a completely different light; Moulder's C rank staves at base allowed him to be used on the final chapter and Garcia's high con allowed him to help with rescuing and dropping.

[@glen1742]

I remember liking that defence map in Sacred Stones with Riev in the bottom left corner. I put Dussel and Gilliam at the choke hold and it got kinda insane seeing all of those units. On the other side of the map there were enemies coming in and it was cool managing my little wall while looking over my shoulder to make sure other things were OK.

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

You can warpskip it though

[@IcyDragonPolaris]

Last Hope is one of my favorite chapters in Sacred Stones!

[@austin7761]

Chapter 14 in Thracia is the pinnacle of defense maps for me.

[@ade1174]

I love your Fire Emblem videos. Thanks for showcasing specific maps from a design and narrative perspective.

[@TwilightWolf032]

FE10 had good defense maps too, with Part III having 2 of them! The first one, *3-5 Retreat!*, is Ike's group armed with a few Ballistae surrounded by enemy troops inside a fortress with several choke points. You're facing mounted and armored units the most, so you can't just secure the choke points and expect your units to survive every turn, since mounted and flying units have the ability to move the remainder of their range after attacking, keeping the low health ones away from your units, but also leaving your weakened troops open to more attacks. The incentive to get away from the choking points is to get the boss' axes that can be stolen (provided Heather has enough stats) and the Energy Drop you can obtain by killing him. You can also get a Master Crown in the Japanese version, as a hidden treasure, an extremely valuable item to have because units cannot promote to their third tier class by leveling up in the original. The second one is a lot trickier, though. *3-13 Blood Contract* sees you in control of the underleveled and likely under prepared Dawn Brigade defending against high level Laguz units. Slow tigers hat hit like a truck aiming at an isekai protagonist that have a crapton of HP, and some feral cats that can easily double everyone not named Sothe and dodge enemy ballistae more often than anyone would be comfortable with. Oh yeah, there's also the birds that, while fragile, can easily get behind your defenses and wreck your units holding the choke points if you're not prepared. To make matters worse, you're not holding a single tile this time, but a whole line of defense. Anything that can fly can screw you over in a single turn, and if you're not careful enough with the paths the enemy units can take, one kitty cat can destroy your run by just jumping over a few steps and reaching Micaiah. Speaking of which, you can't even use Micaiah properly in this map. She is unable to leave the line of defense, meaning she can only use Sleep and Physic staves to support your units. If you have been able to acquire Purge, she can help a bit more by finishing off weaker enemies or damaging one with high HP to let the rest of the DB get the EXP, but that involves letting the Laguz actually get closer rather than keep them at bay. But the biggest problem here lies on the final stretch. The Greil Mercenaries are making their charge, and there is not a single unit that can stand against Ike bearing his Ragnell, which boosts his defense and give him extra range. The moment he decides to face one of your units, that will probably not be with full HP after being attacked by the remaining Laguz, it's over. Shoutout to the 3-13 Archer, by the way!

[@TwilightWolf032]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 I think it could get better, though. Mastery Skills shouldn't cost any Capacity nor occupy a slot, since you don't get a choice in having them or not, instead normal enemy mobs should have different skills to help balance out the game as the game progresses. The removal of Magic based weapons was bad too, especially since the Tempest swords and the Floret say they're magical weapons in their descriptions. Another thing they need to solve if they ever decide to remake FE10 is the basic ass support. Remove the ability to support everyone, but instead make good scripts for the ones that stay. I would make it similar to modern FE games where there's no limit for how many support conversations a character can unlock, but the player would need to choose which units would support each other in battle. Battle Save was introduced in the English version because FE10 is too difficult, but BS renders the challenges mute. I would make it a feature that can be used up to 3 times per map, but not using it grants more Bonus EXP. Also, on repeated playthroughs, Senerio should have the black dragon skills in his arsenal if you took him to the Tower of Salvation and saw the reveal of his heritage. FE10 is my favorite alongside 9, but both need a lot of tweaking for their remakes.

[@jacksonhorrocks4281]

Sometimes I make it a goal to kill Ike on that map because it's rather difficult

[@TwilightWolf032]

@@jacksonhorrocks4281 I have tried to do it many times as well, but even after putting him to sleep and reducing his HP as much as I can with Purge, most DB units can't deal the killing blow because of his high defense + Ragnell. Even if they did, they would remain vulnerable to the surviving Laguz and other Mercenaries, so I often decide to just bail.

[@darkmentalmaster]

Best first move on unhappy reunion is to have Wyvern Elise fly Odin w/Nosferatu over to the left dropping him in attack stance with her on the water so her personal skill activates and allows him to fight all the oni savages easily with his sustainability and weapon triangle advantage

[@mr.krustykrust]

Plus, assuming you reclassed her in ch8 and got her axe rank started, it’s a great push to get her closer to bolt axe rank

[@quinndepatten4442]

I appreciate these videos. I'm working on a fire emblem styled game and this stuff gets me thinking.

[@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755]

I personally love turning traitor from fe8 where you rush to get the villages and save Duessel.

[@theflashgordon193]

yeah it's a good map

[@Miixle]

I like that some of the soldiers even stay with Duessel and are green units too

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

It's okay, probably one of the more difficult maps in fe8. If you want to get the side objectives, at least.

[@tommycrawford1183]

The Tellius games had excellent defense maps. Path of Radiance chapter 5 is probably one of my favorite maps of all time. You barely have enough units to defend to where you are gambling every turn on whether to thin enemies out and risk counterattack or sit and possibly get overwhelmed by enemy cavaliers.

[@oof5992]

Yeah no, that map is one of the worst maps in the series. You can finish it by pressing end turn until the map is over since the enemies cannot defeat your units if they are in a line.

[@mysmallnoman]

@@oof5992 so like any easy defense map ? Lol

[@oof5992]

@@mysmallnoman Yeah, most defense maps in Fe kinda suck, tellius chapter 5 is one of the worst though

[@mysmallnoman]

@@oof5992 no lol Them being easy is a dumb critcism

[@lux3239]

One of my personal favorite defense maps is Thracia's defense map towards the end of the game. I forget the chapter name but its the one where the enemy can open up huge holes in your castle walls so its way more involved than a typical defense map.

[@daemonredfield3211]

My favorite Defense Map was in a Romhack called "Road to Ruin". You start in the center of the map, and there are two bosses, one to the north and one to the south. Each boss is carrying a universal promotion item. The real kicker however is that towards the end of the chapter, the enemy AI shifts; the bosses and their stationary reserve units all start marching towards the center, resulting in a really hard battle; which can be made easier if you take out a boss's camp earlier. The chapter incentivizes you venture out in two ways: The promotion items and to avoid being flanked.

[@sinisterdesign]

Yes, Unhappy Reunion is a *fantastic* map! I think Radiant Dawn deserves some credit for having very solid defend maps as well. As other commenters mention, Elincia’s Gambit is really strong--and there are some parallels with Unhappy Reunion. EG has you scrambling to cover numerous points of access of with a limited array of combat-capable units, as well as a dramatic 11th-hour revelation that expands the scope of the fighting (though it serves a different purpose in EG). I also have a soft spot for Blood Contract--having to hold out against the vastly superior Greil Mercenaries with your Daein weenies while being forced to fall back repeatedly is *extremely* tense.

[@MattRandomnumber]

One of my most memorable fe experiences was elincia's gambit, radiant dawn 2-e. It was my third fe and I wasn't super familiar with defend maps and it lists a secondary objective as kill boss. I thought I had to do both for some reason and split my squad in 2 with the attack force going up the side. I lost almost all of them, but did manage to kill the boss on the last turn in a last ditch hail Mary. Also I zoned out and didn't recruit Haar in 2-p.

[@victorlebeau840]

My favorite defense map is the last map of the second part of radiant dawn (the defense of elincea castle; idk the english name). It's great because you have a strong position but not enough strong unit and a huge number of ennemies with high stat. You have to use wisely the high position,the pegasus and the range attacks in the first part. Next, you gain reinforcement at the other side of the map (cavalery is coming !) and you crush the rest of the big ennemie army between your two group. What a map !!

[@intenseretrogaming]

From my most recent playthrough, I really enjoyed the defensive paralogue map (Awakening hard) where Tiki is recruited. There are no walls; Tiki doesn't attack; there are more reinforcements than your army can handle at a time, from all sides - which forces you to think about out-of-the-box strategies to keep Tiki alive.

[@intenseretrogaming]

In that map, pair up is less effective and the normal support system is more effective. I won't say what my strategy was 🙂 It's not a super hard map but it requires some careful and fun thought.

[@rdchris6556]

My favorite defend maps are actually from the Tellius games. Both of the early game defend maps in PoR I think are fun challenges especially if you're looking to rout and maximize EXP. But the ultimate challenge I take is trying to take out the Greil Mercenaries as the Dawn Brigade in RD during that one defend chapter at the end of part 3.

[@MythrilZenith]

To be fair, Sealen in Talons Alight DOES have a droppable dracoshield (at least in HHM) and I generally see the boss kill as the primary side objective. In a normal run it's easy to kill him turn 2 but in any sort of challenge where you don't have Marcus it becomes pretty hard to get the kill on him in 7 turns. That said the lackluster treasure and almost complete lack of threat to it makes it incredibly forgettable. If you don't do anything, the thief will BARELY be able to open the silver axe chest on turn 7, meaning the turn limit is the only real restriction on getting the treasure. I always feel like defend maps have potential, and conquest 10 is one of the few that make full use of all the options a defend map gives you, but even if I don't often play them that way, the fact that so many of them can literally just be "X wins by doing absolutely nothing" creates issues. Chapter 19 of FE8 is one of my favorite defend maps because you're defending against a massive flood of enemies that will overwhelm you, while you also need to get some valuable treasures from both sides of the map, keep most of the armor knights alive to get the only light brand in the game, and you can kill the boss for both an instant clear and the only Aura tome in the game, all while navigating fog of war. It's a fantastically complex map held back only by the game's relatively low enemy stats. I will never forget Gerik being able to double swordmasters with a hammer, a feat that no unit should be allowed to do. And of course we have the dishonorable mention of Battle Before Dawn, a defend map that instead of becoming a boring nothing map instead becomes the run-ender to almost no fault of your own, as Jaffar can die or be forced to heal as early as turn 3 while you can't reasonably get to him until turn 5 without a perfect dance setup.

[@actuallizard]

Yeah I realized after I made the video that I made it sound like Sealen doesn't have a droppable item. I was trying to say that in a version of the map where je doesn't move, it's important that he have the droppable item, otherwise there's no incentive to go kill him. I thought about talking about Battle Before Dawn again, but I thought I'd give it a break since I did that one 2 weeks ago. I actually think the idea of BBD where you have to rush to a defence point is kind of fun. The execution, not so much unfortunately. FE8 ch 19 is an interesting one. I'll have to pay more attention to it when I play through that game again. I know I warp skip it sometimes lol, so I'll have to make sure to play it normally next time!

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

Last Hope is a pretty good map if you play it straight, unfortunately it can be warp-skipped.

[@MythrilZenith]

@@kentknightofcaelin4537 I don't think the fact that a map *can* be warp skipped inherently makes it bad though. Warp is a limited tool, you use it how you want to. The only way to prevent warp skipping is to eliminate kill boss and seize objectives entirely (or just delete the warp staff) which ultimately makes the game less interesting.

[@sebastianlucas704]

@@kentknightofcaelin4537 Most maps in fe can be warp skipped.

[@EphemeralPseudonym]

FE8J doesn't have glitched out low enemy quality

[@shiniblackrose]

Fire Emblem Sacred Stones, where you have to protect the King. And you get a bonus if you save some of the Knights. It was always my favorite mission

[@jacksonhorrocks4281]

I love how the funnest way to play that map isn't "protect the king", but "Save the baby knights!"

[@imrane161]

Path of radiance defense map when gatrie and shinon left. 3 chokepoints with lots of enemies. The rewards we get for venturing forward was ilyana (if u turtle she'll never get to ike or dies to ike. And the boss an armor knight had something nice. There was also a armor knight (not the boss with an item) He doesn't move until the end. 3 choke points 1 healer.

[@ejinathan]

I like maps were i can stall enemys. One of them is in fe 8 were you can't see much and there are spiders taking hostages. There is a place downstairs were you can use your tank to stop the big amount of enemys. Also the level were you need to beat hardin in fe3. I block with my wyvernrider (had to reset a few times) and the rest attacks and get out of the way with the dancer. That's my jam.

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

Both of those are defeat boss though

[@MercuryA2000]

I haven't played fates in years, but you brought up that example and I still remember the moment of pure "Uh oh." that is Takumi's dragon vein.

[@Draeckon]

Of the games I've played, two defend maps from Radiant Dawn come to mind. I really liked the castle defense from the Crimea segment, where you have Queen Elincia on her pegasus and her ability to fly in and out of the enemy lines, two-hitting enemies. It was fun finding the places I could choke with units and where it was safe for Elincia to dive in and out, while avoiding the enemy archers and crossbowmen. Her being able to do quite a bit of damage while being fairly fragile made it interesting, especially on the harder difficulty, since she's also the map's loss condition. High risk, high reward! Granted, Haar can pretty much trivialize whichever segment of the map you put him on, but I kind of enjoy seeing him wreck shop. The other RD map I liked was in Daein, when the Dawn Brigade has to defend against the Laguz and Greil's Mercenaries. Even though it's not that hard, I liked seeing how far out I could push and how many Greil Mercs I could take down without losing anyone, and seeing the dialogue they have. You really feel how outclassed the DB is compared to the Greil Mercenaries that even with a highly favorable terrain setup, the battle still isn't in the DB's favor overall.

[@ekimmak]

This is actually bringing to mind a similar series, Valkyria Chronicles, and how nasty some of the defence maps there could get. To break it down simply: VC has camps, which are used for deploying new units from, both for player and enemy forces. As long as at least one unit of that team is standing in the camp, it can't be captured. Almost every map has one "Base" camp, where if you lose it, it's game over. But few levels have a timer on it that's to your benefit: usually, running out of time is game over, but a few are instead defence maps where you win if you aren't routed in that time. Certain defence missions in Valkyria Chronicles 2 have multiple base camps, and that's where they become challenging. You can park a tank on one base camp, and nothing save sustained anti-tank damage can take that camp. But when you have multiple base camps... there's only one tank in that game. You have to actively rout the enemy forces (or rely on their bad AI to kill them with counter attacks) to keep them from capturing the camp. Now, this long preamble of mechanics aside: I recall one defence map in the mine map, where there are THREE different base camps to hold, and it's in the Mines. The thing about the mines, is that these will rapidly heal any unit that isn't taken out completely thanks to ambient ragnite (and has explosive crates all over the place that might end up killing your units with a misfire), but this map in particular has an extra nasty thing in its reinforcements: Mortarer spam. Mortarers are brutal because they have a lot of health, but they also attack outside of the range of most interception fire (so they aren't going to be killed before they can act), and whoever they don't kill is going to be flung about. Usually, straight out of the camp. Their beefiness means that interception fire isn't going to be able to stop them from taking the camp, and costing you the map. I remember that one being pretty anxiety inducing compared with the usual slow pace of defence maps in VC2.

[@HolyAarom]

10:30 i hated when por pulled this shit, i think it's the boat chapter where elincia is chilling in the center one and some random bird just beelined for the entrance

[@BladeRabbit]

I actually love turtling and holding chokepoints in srpg, its such a guilty pleasure to make a killzone unlike when you need to go into an enemy killzone and peel it apart.

[@OmegaX5000]

I vaguely remember what I did in the Fates Conquest map you used as an example. I think I had my best tank units just sit on top of the objective since they had the least mobility out of anyone in my forces, while having the HP and attack power to fend for themselves on the off-chance that any enemies snuck past my main forces, who were pretty much spread thin at that point. I think I had both of my dragon riders on opposite ends of the map since they could bypass terrain, and Azura was with Corrin on double turn duty. I could never figure out how to get her to do anything that didn't involve giving other units a second turn, yet would often see Azura's from other players wielding powerful weapons. Mine just refused to fight, no matter what weapon I gave her.

[@mujiha]

I’ve never played Conquest but I did watch a playthrough of Ch 10 specifically and it was probably the most ‘excited’ I’ve been watching/playing FE content. Watching Arthur/Effie stretched to the absolute limit by the ninjas slowly debuffing and depleting her defenses was nail biting. Having Takumi activate the dragon vein was a stroke of genius

[@dezmas9332]

I like two things in defense maps, a unit that you must defend or a surprise/surprises in a mission that give you extra units, extra points/chokepoints, or/and a new unit like a boss. What is better for defense maps is interactable objectives that can give you those things, to both ease the conflict or make it harder for those wanting a challenge. A unit being the one you have to defend is iffy if done wrong, but as long as it doesn't get one/two shot by anything then the death of that unit will mostly be the player's fault, and one or two mistakes won't just end the entire mission, it can even open up things like units that are weak to the defendable unit but are in a dangerous area making you enticed to risk it, or there can be units that gun straight for the defendable unit/units that are strong against the defendable unit that you have to maneuver around or have to marked as highly dangerous enemies to kill first to ease your mind in not having half your defendable unit's health just get obliterated due to a stupid mistake in the future

[@CheesyLizzy]

I just found this channel and I just want to say I really like your analysis videos ^^

[@DoctorSpacebar]

Shout out to one particular Survive chapter in the ROM hack Fire Emblem: Bloodlines that really stood out as one of my favorites. The chapter in question, Red Reconnaissance, has you vastly outnumbered and surrounded on all sides, with some very nice optional goodies on opposite ends of the map that can stretch your army thin- but there's barrels that your units can push or pull to use as temporary blockades, holding off some of the enemies even after they smash through the walls. It certainly never feels like an End Turn simulator given how many dudes are coming at you- but the barrels give you a fighting chance and open up quite a few different approaches to the map.

[@joshsimpson1283]

I can't remember the name of it right now, but 3 houses had a defense map as one of its side battles that I think was simpler but well executed. (The one where you defend the high priestess sorry I'm very bad with names today 😂) she is pretty frail so you need to be careful to defend her. The map is wide open so you can't just guard choke points, and it's dark so the next attack can come from anywhere. Most importantly, the enemies keep getting stronger and more numerous unless you kill the multiple bosses that each control a different spawn point. You have 2 choices, hunker down and try to survive waves of increasingly powerful enemies that could come from any direction or attack blindly looking for hidden bosses. On subsequent attempts where you already know the hidden enemy locations it isn't too hard, but on first playthrough it was an interesting challenge where I did allow an attack to slip through, but luckily they only damaged and didn't kill the unit I was protecting. Fat moving enemies that day straight for the objective were a challenge on that map as well

[@renren47618]

Three Houses defense maps literally just exist, the ai doesn't even go for the point you have to defend If they think of attacking you first.

[@c2_pikalee73]

Another execlent video, (for context i haven't played conquest and thracia is one of my favourite games) but a suprise there was no talk of thracia defend chapters. Thracia has a lot of weird psudeo defend psudeo defend maps where if the enemy reaches the escape tile you lose. Ignoring how thematically excelent this is I always enjoyed chapter 13 as not only were their generic units which are just fun to use always you have to speed to the defense point with near infinite reinforcements as glade is at risk of dieing and you losing the point. The villages have very useful items not only to steal (if you got the new theif pern to get tomes) but also a knight proof (promo item). And of course chapter 14 is excelent although can be choke point cheesed but is not like this on the first few play throughs (although it is quite nintendo hard) I kind of dislike chapter 20 however it starts quite well with having to break units out of a cell but at this point units are very strong and the point is trival and most of the time your units are too broken and the reinforcements are simply diabolical so the best bet is to block them off. However I love the kill boss in certain of turns objective while defending and feel like it needs to be done more

[@actuallizard]

Yeah there are a couple maps I thought about talking about and Thracia 14 was one of them (along with Elincia's Gambit). Those maps are kind of tricky because a lot of the fun of those maps comes from the surrounding narrative for me, rather than the design of the map itself. I will surely talk about Thracia chapter 14 when I do a larger video on Thracia though, which will definitely happen at some point since Thracia is my favorite.

[@c2_pikalee73]

Fair enough, will be excited for the Thracia video, you make great content and I hope you get more recognition!

[@andrewohagan2962]

I remember the first (and only so far) time I beat unhappy reunions the last turn I put all of my surviving units on the green line for the last turn which is all that got me through it

[@Hats502]

One note about Talons Alight, the boss does have a stealable promotion item (I think it’s a hero crest) in HHM. Defend maps do often be pretty weak, but when they hit… they HIT

[@mysmallnoman]

No he doesn't He has a droppable dragon shield, that's it You're confusing it with ch21

[@Hats502]

@@mysmallnoman oh so that’s what he had. I knew it was something worth stealing. Haven’t played fe7 in a long time

[@YouCanCallMeIz]

I know chapter 10 of conquest has already been mentioned a thousand times in this comment section, but I think there's a valuable insight to be taken from it. The scramble to reconfigure your defenses on turn 10 IS difficult, but relatively manageable, if you think about it from a purely mechanical perspective. But the REAL scary part is the theatrics of it all. Suddenly Takumi says "screw it" and annihilates your chokepoints. The careful balance you'd worked so hard to maintain is gone, and now you have to work to get it back. Emotionally, (more so if you don't know it's going to happen) it's terrifying. This is the same reason Elincia's Gambit is so celebrated. Because even more than it's design (which is good, don't get me wrong) it gives you the FEELING of a siege. Enemies on all sides, outnumbering you by several degrees, threatening to crush you if you can't hold out. The emotions of defense maps are actually quite important to the experience, at least on a casual playthrough. (I was going to leave this on a reply, but I went on a tangent instead of actually replying... so I just made it a comment.)

[@kaiakaigninetails]

I remember the conquest map well, at the end I just had all my units on the defense spots and hoped for Noone to die while getting swarmed by pegasus knights

[@YinBoo]

maaaan Unhappy Reunion is legit my favorite map in the franchise 👌and it isn't even close great video

[@therealsamtheman]

My problem with the conquest defend map is the turn limit. It says "defend for 11 turns" so I defended for 11 turns and thought that was it. *nope* the enemies get one last go, they killed Felicia (out of position for last second EXP)... I dropped the game I was so pissed (n'th playthruough)

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

I think that's how it works in every game though? Remember, PP comes first, so a turn would be comprised of PP, then EP.

[@therealsamtheman]

@@kentknightofcaelin4537 You're not wrong, but it says on the screen "this is turn 11. Click here to end turn" so when that's the goalpost you think you've hit it, after a stressful fight

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

That makes me think of the two defense maps in Three Houses, both before the timeskip. I feel that the paralogue one is only slightly better than the one in the actual main story (Ashe's and Catherine's paralogue, "Falling Short of Heaven", and Chapter 12, "To War", respectively). The paralogue is a Fog of War map, one of like three in the entire game, with no actual choke points, and a means to end the map "early" by routing the enemy (killing the commanders stop reinforcements). While the map itself is extremely simple, largely because it's a forest map and Three Houses isn't exactly known for its map design, iirc, this is the only time this specific map is used. Chapter 12, while it's main objective is routing the enemy units, there is the side objectives of protecting Rhea and making sure no one actually gets into the church. So, while it's not a true "Defense" map, it does have lose conditions of one.

[@chris.awilliams7138]

Important when considering defence maps is to think about the enemy types. Mixing up the enemies that come at you so that each choke-point has a mix of physical and magic users means that you have a situation where if you let the enemies come to you, then whoever it is you left at the choke-point gets slaughtered on a stat they can't defend with. When it comes to victory conditions, having to beat the boss can be better than having to survive a number of turns. This encourages a more aggrssive style where the player can't simply waite it out. Additionaly, by giving the player the chance to end the defence map quickly, they can put in one or more enemies that are simply too strong to fight (like the hounds in chapter 11 of Engage or the mech that chases you in one of the chapter of the Three-Houses Cindered Shadows DLC. Such powerful enemies help the player buy in to 'not-dying' being an actual achievement, rather than what happens for me (and probably for others as well), where they see 'defend for x turns' and think 'right, how can I kill all these enemies in the time limit'. It is slightly immersion breaking to be told to defend when feeling like offending is a viable strategy.

[@mehrazkarim2243]

Great video and interesting critiques

[@estrum1647]

that FE7 map where you battle Eubans. most enemies are equiped with reaver weapons wich make the chapter tricky even if you know how to play the game. you have a secret shop and good money inside chests wich are difficult to reach. and defeating Eubans feels rewarding because its a hard boss at that point of the game

[@Marcara081]

Radiant Dawn had such a great defense map but it was marred by the fact it could arbitrarily end after a set number of turns. On the hardest difficulty, rescuing ally units and placing them in order to create blocks/choke points, and healing them accordingly, turned it into the best defense mission ever.

[@ghoulin9532]

I actually wanna point to another defense map later in the same game, FE7. Can't remember the chapter name but having to recruit heath as well as rath while immediately being swarmed with reinforcements, optional chests and a boss kill, and another new unit in isadora to use make that defend chapter fun and challenging. It's more open and harder to turn into holding the choke point simulator of talons alight, and you're likely to have to make a decision about promoting around this time so I think it's a highlight for me

[@EphemeralPseudonym]

the enemy placement in that map freaking sucks though 😭

[@mrkisukes]

The key to a good defense map is to not make it strictly about defending. As the saying goes, a good defense is a good offense. You're likely to be enticed to turtle up at the choke points for unhappy reunion, but the game will punish this once the final push kicks in cause there are too many enemies rushing you. You gotta instead cull their numbers before then as much as you can.

[@WakeUpUniverse66]

Great video dude, Hope to see more FE content!

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

Actually the first defense map is Fe4 with the Chapter 7 scenario of Leif defending Leonster, but because you can technically ditch the castle, it's not much of a defense map if you do so.

[@thesuperthingymabob8209]

One time on that hector map, I was doing a draft run and I didnt have a ton of my units already recruited and I ended up just sitting hector on the throne with everyone else undeployed and he just tanked all of the enemies that came at him no problem lol

[@Blarglesnarfe]

What do you think of the very difficult Radiant Dawn Defence map with the iconic archer?

[@TiranMaster]

The funny thing is that I just reached unhappy reunion and have tried it once. This is the first time I've committed to playing with perma-death on. So this map has been a nightmare for me as I don't deal with defensive playing well. XD

[@LazurBeemz]

Instead of trying to entice players to spread out, is there no consideration for making the actual defense harder? Enemies that beeline for the target like those fliers you mentioned, a mobile target who wanders into danger, or simply making the enemies stronger.

[@justicetaylor3050]

Well summed up. Unhappy Reunion was a great challenge

[@lanceknightmare]

The first time you fight Valadar in Fire Emblem Awakening. The map is a test to see how well your team is balanced at this point in the game. Completely unleveled units will only fill the role of being used together to remove a few units per turn. The units you deploy on the right side of the map will either get complete destroyed only delaying the enemy or rip them apart. The thief who can open the door is a dangerous unit because this opens up another path to the unit you need to protect. In Lunatic mode it is possible to use this level as a means to level up a specific unit. I specifically tend to choose Lonqu to level. This also requires careful planning and enough will to sit through rng. Depending on how well you distributed your experience and gained stat points in the previous levels you may or may not have this option. The map does not allow you to just choose one choke point. You have to stop units from approaching from the right and left for long enough for your strong units to finish off the center. You have to move your defensive line back at times to recover your hit-points. This results in the stage becoming more and more unstable for you to manage as a player.

[@12Metatron]

I was wondering when you'd mention conquest chapter 10. That map is legendary

[@afilthycasualplays4007]

I didn't play any of the Fates games, but hearing that it has a good defense map intrigues me. I have a strange habit when it comes to Fire Emblem games. If I have to route or kill the boss to win, I'll usually move carefully across the map only splitting the party to get optional objectives but mainly utilizing the slow death ball idea. When I'm told to survive or defend for X turns, I become VERY aggressive because I know I have limited turns with which I can get my units experience. My first games were 7, Sacred Stones and PoR, and while Sacred Stones had a grinding mechanic, at the time, that was an outlier. I knew early on that experience was finite so when the game told me I had only a limited turns to earn it, I had to play outside of my comfort zone and go get it. If I finish a Defend or Survive map without clearing all the enemies, it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

[@littlekuribohimposte]

This is why Battle Before Dawn is a great map. You need to move quickly, you need to split your force to keep both Nino and Jaffar alive. You need to protect Zephiel in the fog of war, and the chests have some pretty valuable goods like the Delphi Shield.

[@Dw7freak]

I remember a bad one in Radiant Dawn. It's the last mission of the first part. Micaiah has to hold out against Ike's team. Unless you've been grinding, you won't be able to survive combat with them. The only plus side is that there's barely enough turns for them to reach you before it's over. As most of the armored characters you get in the beginning are trash to start, especially on those poor terrain maps, you might not've actually used them. Heck, I rarely use Generals because they're too slow to keep up and they don't get multiple attacks often.

[@DiogoJ1]

I enjoyed defense maps of Blazing Blade. I think they were well done. You could defend, or you could defeat leaders in most cases to cut the map short, if you wanted to. Like the boat chapter mentioned here, where killing leader ends map.

[@ninjabunny9526]

Its absolutely criminal to talk about defense maps and not mention PoR Ch8. That's the platonic ideal of a defense map in fire emblem. The sense of hopelessness you feel during it is unrivaled thanks to its brutal difficulty and the story surrounding it. The mercenaries are at their lowest point narratively and you've just lost two of your tankiest units. It's also the best designed defense map in the whole series, with the central defense point leading into three choke points each with their own unique set of enemies barreling through it. And with only three characters that are capable of tanking at your disposal you're given very little wiggle room for error or for messing around. The side objectives are also very well done, with illyana's recruitment being pretty hard if you don't exert control over the left choke point and getting the red gem off the priest is only ever doable about 50% of the times you play that map as you need to first deal with the strongest squad of enemies, the cavaliers in the bottom choke point, which can usually only ever be done by a Titania that gets pretty lucky with crits, or titania and boyd working together on those enemies, as boyd is the only other unit that can hit hard enough from 1-2 range and take a few hits, but if Boyd wants to tank and do damage that means you're also sacrificing Rhys to be with them too, and Boyd no longer holding a choke means that you're going to have to use Ike to hold one which is very risky. And then it all culminates in the end with you getting rescued and feeling a greater feeling of relief than you've ever felt playing a video game. Or at least that's how I always feel while playing it.

[@miorosa318]

You should try chapter 10 on lunatic if you love a damn challenge, its so hard to keep any squishy alive if they are not lvl 10+ and you need really really well planned out pre game to have enough money for tonics cause they need need them, especially when you're doing an ironman run where you try to keep everyone alive and have to restart every time one dies xD

[@Camnose]

Fun tips: wyvern Elise + nos tank Odin can handle the west side of the map very well by themselves. Camilla and co. arrive just in time to stop the archers in the east from reaching the ballista and can take on the archers as a group, so you can leave that side un-defended until they show up, meaning the remainder of your army can storm the center area

[@EphemeralPseudonym]

that's the opposite of an ironman run

[@miorosa318]

@@EphemeralPseudonym Ya I realize iron man meant leaving people dead in this game, ironman in other games usually mean having to start over cause one life no?

[@lowresu]

Honestly I think you missed an important aspect of why Talons Alight fails where Unhappy Reunion succeeds, and that's in the scenario where you don't care about the side objectives. Talons Alight i think is most well known for its speedrun/common casual strat of just undeploying everyone besides hector and never moving him off the throne (the "like I give a shit" strat), the map just has no enemies scary enough to force you to deal with them proactively. I've never tried playing cq10 by just pairing up everyone and sitting them on the defend tiles, but i suspect would not end well. So a good defend map needs not only interesting side objectives, but also enemies scary enough, or a defense point spread out enough, to force the player on offense.

[@user-sr6cg6ro2b]

The best defense map was in Radiant dawn, where u have to defend Elincias castle against waves and waves of enemys, really struggled a lot back then

[@annibo4807]

Im surprised he didnt talk about this

[@Aeivious]

its a great map but once elincia cleans up the center, the map is just end turn over and over and hope haar doesnt get crit. It is a fun map but it defintiely is a few turns too long and is easily solved once haar and brom are at their respective choke points and the back up units dont do much of anything to releave the stress as their are liabilities who cant land a hit or do damage and cannot approach the flank their were supposed to.

[@murphthasmurf5923]

I feel like the defense maps in Radiant Dawn hit a lot of your high points for one good reason: they are not at all designed to be routed. GBA FE seemed like it wanted all maps to be routable if you play right. Ledges in RD were a great mechanic to encourage defensive play since a weaker unit could survive against a stronger one with the high ground. In Radiant Dawn, some defense maps are just riddled with enemies that you couldn’t dare push through even if you wanted to. Sometimes these enemies are even individually stronger than your own units. It narrows the playstyle a bit since you basically HAVE to hold certain choke points and ledges, but the pressure never really lets up and you feel like you’re really fighting just to stay alive. There’s a great moment towards the end of 3-13 where you finally feel like you’ve stabilized the defense, then the Greil Mercs start pushing in. Your only choice is to give up a ton of defensive ground, ledges, chokepoints, etc. since they massively overpower you, and try to buy just enough time to finish the map.

[@letsmakeit110]

As usual berwick saga sets a high bar with its extra condition that all units have to withdraw from the map through the defense point by a set turn count. Since the hex grid makes everything more open youre encouraged to sprawl out early and take out enemy reinforcements before their numbers grow overwhelming. But near the end if you don't forego killing enemies to retreat, you won't make it back to base in time.

[@QueenAleenaFan]

Defense maps are the best maps, IMO. The game can just go balls to the wall against you. The port defense map in Conquest, Elincia's Castle defense, and...I believe it's 16-2 in Dark Lord and the Maiden of Light come to mind, but even the defense of Merlinius shown above is exciting since there are optional objectives and you can sally out for a rout if you really want.

[@willd1790]

Radiant Dawn 2-E is something I'm really trying to understand because I somehow found it a ton of fun despite how it falls into a lot of the same problems as a lot of Defend maps, as in it's very easy to get into a situation where you can hit end turn 15 times and win, but like I still really enjoyed myself and I do not know why lol

[@paperluigi6132]

Thoughts on Chapter 8 of Engage?

[@baeruttgaming4779]

Engage has a new "Defense Map"... although it felt much more like a Wait until the boss shows and defeat them type of map

[@gidan1128]

12:07 Save state? Don't worry - I won't tell. 😉

[@senny-]

Have you played Thracia 776? Unhappy Reunion DEFINITELY took inspiration from Thracia's Open Fire (Chapter 14). I went through all five stages of grief just playing that chapter. That map had everything you said you like in a FE defense map. Some info: >You need to beat it in 10 turns >Two wyvern riders join you this chapter >If you visit a village really far away from your defense point with that one specific wyvern rider which joins you this chapter, you get a Dragon Lance, a really powerful signature weapon. >If you visit at least three houses, you unlock a bonus chapter >If you visit one specific house with a specific character, you gain a good unit (a mage) >But the icing on top are the reinforcements. They don't ever stop. Heck, there are ballistae reinforcements! Killing the boss stops the reinforcements, but he's strong and has wind magic, forcing you to be extremely careful if you're planning to rush a flyer or two towards him. Also, he's nearby the house where you get the Dragon Lance. That map is soooo good. I can't overstate it. Edit: I just checked. There are no ballistae reinforcements this chapter. That's on Chapter 20, another (good) defense map.

[@zoruaf5793]

the early one in Path of Radiance always leaves me scrambling, bc i Could turtle up and stay on the choke points, OR I could actually recruit Illya and thats always painful for me

[@linkuriboh471]

It's hard to believe that Awakening is going to be 11 years old this year. I still like Kjelle since she's one of the only second generation units that's viable without grinding. Everyone else besides Morgan and Lucina are too under leveled. I liked Awakening but I prefer other games nowadays. Back in its heyday, people found the gameplay tedious due to the map design and enemy placement.

[@1stCallipostle]

I've played awakening over 2 dozen times since it was my first game and teenagers get very bored But admittedly it's gotten hard to go back because when you remember exactly what you're getting into, it doesn't offer that many alternative ways to play after a while

[@stratosfire1943]

Honestly i turn defense maps into "Im going to route this entire army" the tricky ones are the darkness / fog defense maps where you have no idea what death lays around the corner

[@alcatraz-nc2814]

Defense map are well....very static by nature. But what I think FE should have is escort mission, in other word "mobile defense". And I know what some are already thinking. AI will rush into their death or it will favor Paladin/Great Knight over armoured unit like Knight and General. Well I think there is a relatively easy solution to "fix" these 2 issues without breaking the potential scenario behind. The escort objective will be handled by the AI however to make it move from one place to another you will first requires to have units "scout ahead and eliminate threat" and once the path is clear you can order the escort to move to your location. While the objective is moving you still have to make sure the convoy doesnt fall into an ambush. Of course there will be a boss that will act as a tactician summoning waves of reinforcement and also taking matter into his own hands while a certain time / wave has passed. I think this gamemode will be much better than the current defense because it requires the player to have a balance between slow but tanky unit but also fast moving unit. But it also wont be as dull as a normal defense because you will have to move around to win the game meaning you will have to go through different terrain. If the first part of the map is surrounded by conveniently placed fort and forest tiles , the second part might just have plains/road tiles and the game will send you a wave of Paladin and Pegasus/Dragon knight and you will have to rely on your positioning and baits to pass through.

[@EphemeralPseudonym]

Vision Quest has an escort chapter and it actually works better than you'd think because green units move *after* red, which move after you, so you can guarantee the green unit won't be in range of any enemies on a given turn

[@Roshuwah]

When I saw the topic I was thinking one game that did it right was conquest. That chapter was so hard! When he used that dragon vein it was just ABORT ABORT THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!

[@ajh22895]

Did you mean Chapter 10 of Conquest?

[@riemaennchen]

I always try to go for the Boss on every Defense map. I need those juicy EXP!

[@sachitechless]

Interesting how Unhappy Reunion was often considered one of the worse maps by newcomers because of how unfair it was to a lot of people including myself. It's interesting looking back at it now.