The problem with electrostatic speakers

[@c12performance19]

My all time fave would be Magnepan Tympani 1D. My girlfriend hated me and my audio system...so I left her lol

[@malteadotas4]

you did the right thing. I'm sure you don't regret it.

[@seeburg10]

No news here Steve, you've expressed these thoughts before. I'm glad you respect different preferences as I respect yours. The only Electrostatic speakers I've spent time with are my current Acoustat Spectra 33's and I absolutely love their sound. To me they convey a realism that takes me that much closer to the ultimate sound source. I've owned Klipsch hybrid horn/driver speakers and enjoyed them too, but more for the accuracy of the horns than the "punch" or "soul" that you describe. When I hear them now they seem blaring and unbalanced among the frequencies. I don't need my speakers to move a lot of air or punch me in the gut; I just need them to let me close my eyes and imagine myself in the recording studio or concert hall.

[@scottyo64]

That's what's great about the audio world, there is something for everyone's tastes and budgets. Doesn't mean one is worse than the other just different strokes for different folks.

[@sinatra221]

You're a rare bird !!

[@andershammer9307]

I own Acoustat X speakers and I once did a comparison of listening carefully to a live symphony orchestra with my eyes closed and then listening to a good recording of the same music on my stereo with my eyes closed and the sound was they same. It seemed odd to open my eyes and see speakers instead of the orchestra. When a system can do this it's good enough for me. I've heard horns sound pretty good but nothing conveys the emotion and the feel good energy that I get from my Acoustats.

[@socksumi]

A good electrostatic like the Quad measures and sounds much low in distortion which translates into a more transparent and life like experience. Superb resolution and detail without screaming at you. I can't say the same for the Klipsch speakers I've heard.

[@grahamstrahle4010]

Paul McGowan bagged them recently too. It depends, like everything, on one's musical tastes. Stats are amazing for lighter jazz, classical, unamplified concerts, anything like that.

[@johnholmes912]

paul trots out a lot of tripe

[@tomdac]

Having owned MartinLogans for 30+ years, I must say that they are definitely not for everyone. They are so critical of good amplification, placement and room dynamics that they often sound horrible in many showrooms. I finally moved away from them when we downsized and retired and while I do miss the open and airy sound of them, cabinet and traditional drivers have come a long way since 1987. Another great video, Steve. Thanks.

[@3VAudioVideo]

But no matter how they are set up, they always sound great when listening to ZEBRA! Hi Tom, good seeing you here! We almost met up at the Whiskey show. Maybe next time they come around ;)

[@rotaks1]

I have Martin Logan Aries hooked up to outlaw rr 2160 with a pair of RELs. Love the speakers!

[@arsaeterna4285]

I like how you have no intro Straight to the good content : )

[@DwightMS1]

It's interesting how people's mileage varies. To me, electrostatics sound the closest to an actual musical performance. They grab me right off the bat, and hold me there.

[@dilbyjones]

DwightMS1 I’m dealing with same problem

[@sylviarienzo6955]

I’ve owned Quad ESL-63 speakers since 1985. I like to joke that I’m going to have them buried with me so they can follow me to whatever comes next (if anything!). But seriously, I think it’s important to consider what kind of music one likes to listen to, in my case that is classical music and opera. Electrostatic speakers, especially my Quads, so far as I know, are ideally suited to classical music and opera. They are not well suited to rock. It’s an important consideration.

[@mikenoble9151]

I have a pair of Martin Logan Quest speakers. Probably around 25 years old. As you know they are electrostatic hybrids. Electrostatic mids and highs and conventional bass drivers with 12” speakers for the low end. Frequency response from 20hz to 20khz. I’ve loved them ever since I got ‘em. Best of both worlds I think.

[@johntoste5346]

Excellent description of the difference between horns and 'stats. But... I wouldn't call 'stats soulless, any more than I would call horns shouty, forward, nasal, and irredeemably colored. Different strokes etc.

[@edgerat]

I define horns as "bitchy"

[@vicverdi9402]

As I've written several times" Volume = Length x With x Height. No loudspeaker/audio system presently manufactured can capture the dimensions of a live sound event. The whole thing falls apart with the recording process which never captures live sound accurately-especially now with multi-tracking, overdubbing, digital adjustments of pitch and time of the performers. Once recorded, your "high resolution" system- even if fairly accurate, can only reveal the attributes of the always flawed recording. The over-emphasis of "imaging" and spatial cues not prominent in live sound to the degree many audio enthusiast insist and ... to the de-emphasis of characteristics of frequency balance, timbre, dynamic range, etc. does a great disservice to the audiophile community. In a constant pursuit of imaging I"m hearing a layering of high frequencies to emphasize and exaggerate spatial cues. The sound sources in the recording become smaller and thinner and in no way lifelike but ... it sells! Recognizing all the shortcomings of "audio" in delivering live sound in your listening space, you need to face reality. The sound you're listening to is not live sound. It is doctored and altered beyond live sound so.. you might select audio equipment that emphasize the characteristics you think are important and gives you a somewhat convincing rendition of your idea of what live sound is.

[@mikehanks1399]

Finally, some absolute truth.

[@zulumax1]

You are so right in the fact that the image we hear is a contrivance or illusion that the sound engineer has created. The only way to get close is to use only two dedicated right and left microphones, ribbon microphones 90 degrees apart. Best stereo recordings I have were made from 1958 to 1963.

[@vicverdi9402]

@@zulumax1 You are dead on! ... Recording "tree" with 3 condenser microphones.. usually Neuman's.. Not much compression ... more true to life than most recordings of last 50 years!

[@zulumax1]

@Тайбирияс Чайковский Yes you need many tweeters in a vertical line array like Paul McGowin of PS Audio has in his listening room at PS Audio. Infinity RS has an 8 foot array from floor to ceiling. Other way to do it is with an acoustic transformer called a horn compression driver. A one inch dome is the worse thing you can have to couple to the air. Steve has another video that discusses this very topic.

[@zulumax1]

@@vicverdi9402 I have a reel to reel recording I made in Tacoma WA in 1984 of a theatre pipe organ. I used two dedicated cardiod condenser mics on baby boom stands at around 10 to 12 feet apart and 6 to 8 feet from the floor. Have some room standing wave issues with bass response, but the image is pretty convincing. Depth and placements good.

[@markthorens8724]

Steve..... You've got it all wrong :) Not really of course..... But I always note that when going from any panel loudspeaker to a box loudspeaker I can usually hear the box playing along at first..... That's why I love panels (both 'statics and Maggies) so much.

[@dilbyjones]

Mark Thorens I’m with ya!

[@draganantonijevic2441]

After all these years and listening to all possible speakers, for all round, real life and me are dynamic speakers... with ribbon tweeter.

[@somsci]

Thanks for that, Steve.

[@rosssmith173]

I used to own magnaplaner 1.7i 's. The sound was fantastic. The sound stage was tricky. But the weird thing these speakers did was if I was playing some record, and I would go upstairs. I could still hear them clearly. They certainly not wife friendly. Since you have to drag em all over the place before they sound good.

[@claesmalmberg7925]

I love the range of Martin Logan speakers that has the powered woofer. As you say they are transparent clear and crispy but will also give you a fantastic dynamic base. However positioning, placement and room are critical coworkers to a pair of ML’s. I think this comes as a problem for some people. Sure they are a bit polite but you will be rewarded by other advantages. Advantages difficult to find elsewhere. I have owned many traditional dynamic Hifi speakers and Magnepans but I prefer ML’s by far. I would like to try out a horn speaker since I never had owned a pair.

[@martinjandijkstra3205]

I owned several electrostatics and I build ones myself. There is a hudge difference between the several panels so there is no ESL sound.. Many of them, but not all, struggle in the bass and/ or low end up to 300 Hz. This may explain a perceived lack of soul although I can think of other problems as well. Adding a sub solves part of the problem.

[@thecheese2386]

As you are always good about pointing out, it comes down to individual preference!. In reflecting on my system, I refresh all components piece by piece over a cycle of about 10 years. Within that time I change out components. So I never reach the perfect sound but enjoy the journey.

[@andrewmansker9074]

Interesting perspective that I can relate to. Over the past 30 years I've lived primarily with panel speakers of one type or another. Only one of them frequently "startled" me because I was convinced there was someone in the house with me because of the sound coming out of the speaker. Wish I knew the scientific name of that effect? I don't mean it "sounds really good like someone is in the room". I mean you literally think someone is in the room, for real. That can be quite startling when you have your eyes closed listening to music and you know there is nobody else in the house. I've owned Apogee Stages, Soundlab Dynastats, Acoustat 2+2, Magnepan IIB, Magnepan MGIIIA, and for the past four years Martin Logan Vantage. Also various box speakers, but almost always panel speakers. I like the sound of all of these speakers, but only the Magnepan MGIIIA gave me that startling feeling of realism. That results from feeling immersed in the sound and in someway suggests realism and "soul".

[@stevec3526]

So Steve, you are magnetically attracted to Magnepans?

[@m.9243]

It all depends on what you are going to listen. For acoustic type of music, solo instrument or even solo voice, the electrostatics shine with their realism. When it comes though to large orchestral works or large choir, they are struggling. Things get even worse with rock music.. One has to make choices I guess.

[@andershammer9307]

My electrostatics sounded just like a full orchestra and rock sounds great on them but I can only get 104 dB out of them but it's enough for me.

[@socksumi]

Once you hear a good stat, it's hard to go back to box speakers. Their main problem has been being too directional which some people mind more than others. But there are good stats that use curved panels or multiple angled panels that solve the problem pretty well. Soundlab with it's multiple angled strips for example and Martin Logan's subtly curved screens which aids dispersion a bit. There are even omni-directional designs by Mur Audio that use impressively constructed cylindrical screens but the price is out of reach for most. Quad uses concentric ring transducers which aids dispersion.

[@grahaminkpen5436]

Well, I can’t escape the draw of stats, I love them, I have Martin Logan Spires, super quick loudspeakers and a seamless marriage of bass, can’t see what’s not to like. I run them with valves in the pre stages and two old Musical Fidelity MA50 power amps. They handle everything at almost any volume.

[@lastoftheboomers9600]

About time for some more music reviews -- the little known audiophile stuff I mean.

[@mkshffr4936]

I have become a real fan of open baffles so I suspect that I might enjoy stats as they would seem to have some similarity in presentation. What I have wondered about is why use a step up transformer to undo the step down of the output transformer? Why couldn't one simply forgo the output transformer and just cap couple the plates of push pull output tubes to the speaker? Inquiring minds want to know. I have also wondered if piezos could also be directly driven by the output tube or tubes.

[@dan-qe1tb]

I just heard ESL-63 undecided as of yet. I had listened to vocals and simple guitar arrangements.

[@martinusher1]

I've found the problem with ESLs is that they don't like sitting near walls or corners. So you need a big room with not much else in it than the audio system. Most of us don't have that kind of space to burn and we have this stuff called 'furniture' so finding even a so-so placement for them in an average room is difficult. BTW -- Quad originally designed these to work with their valve amplifiers. I'd be interested to know if anyone has experience with this setup and whether it differs in sound from non-Quad amplifiers.

[@snuffpappy]

LOVE my Martin Logan ESL's matched with NAD amp and CD player. SUBLIME !

[@SeagoatLeo1]

I had Acoustat Xs, Acoustat 2&2, ML Monolith IIIs and Quest. My wife, 21 years ago told me she hated the sound for pop and rock, lacking true bass and dynamics plus the directionality. I've had original Legacy Focus speakers since then and love'm with high end equipment (a $2500 value speaker in a $100K system).

[@explorinlearnindoing5462]

Hi Stephen, which Acoustats did you prefer, the X with their OTL amps? Or the 2+2 with Medailion interfaces? I now have ML CLS II speakers, but would have to build a good subwoofer for them or.... buy Acoustats X, or 2+2 My room isnt very wide, but long. What do you think?....

[@pauldemara7633]

Probably some of the most important wisdom you've shared ... "Everything is a compromise".

[@erwy-sf5ze]

So true

[@rickp6731]

Steve did you hear about the Major-Breakthrough for Electrostatic Loudspeakers ? All new Final Audio Model 15 Electrostatic Loudspeakers !

[@hifiman4562]

My current fascination is big drivers. 15" midbass and 15" midrange, 18" subs. Played around and had my fill of 3"-6" drivers.

[@dave-1446]

I owned Sound Lab A-1s and the problem I had with them is that they didn't generate a realistic soundfield out from the speaker plane to the listening position. The listener would never feel "in the recording," but would instead be left to 'watch' what was happening behind the speaker plane.

[@n.lyndley.9889]

ELS simply can’t produce bass - that’s why I use the Sanders’ hybrid with transmission line. ELS speakers’ impedance goes very low, they can’t be driven by valve amps, they need a very robust power amp - that’s why I use Sanders’ monoblocks that can drive down to 0.3 Ohms. 2000W/4ohm and fully regulated power supply (yes like source components and pre-amps). I do love other speaker types (Magico / Klipsch) but for me a (decent) ELS, properly driven, portrays all the nuances within the music. There are many poor ELS speakers that are highly compromised in many areas.

[@ianwhite9149]

I've owned five different electrostatic loudspeakers going back to the CLS/Aerius/ReQuests and as much as I love the transparency and see-through quality of the Quad ESLs that I've heard at shows recently, I have to agree with you. They are speakers that appeal more to the head than the heart. With certain types of music they make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck and it's hard to fault vocals through a lot of these speakers but they don't do bass really well (need large panels) and they are not great for rock, metal, electronic music. Best combo I ever had was the M-L ReQuest Zs driven by a 25-watt Blue Circle BC6 SS SET amplifier in a 20 x 16 x 10 room. With that amount of power, it should have sounded like crap when you turned up the volume but it was a great combination. I'd love a pair of restored ESLs driven by some vintage Leak or Quad amplifiers but the type of music I listen to now wouldn't justify the expenditure.

[@JohnDoe-jm5ul]

There seems to be a lot of hate for electrostatic speakers. You either love them or you hate them. I hear people saying they are overly harsh and that it's absolutely not true. I also are people saying they are only good for certain types of music, I don't agree with that either. Some speakers may be better than others on different genres, but honestly my Martin Logan's play Everything well from rap, to Jazz... The 10s built into the hybrid frame extend down to 30hertz easily. Honestly I think it comes down to your setup. My hybrids have never been harsh on my ears, nor have I ever had issues blending the woofer into the panel...

[@JohnDoe-jm5ul]

@Larry Niles maybe if they aren't set up properly mine definitely are not harsh. My ears are sensitive to harsh tweeters. It's all about having the proper setup and the proper Electronics. If you if your setup is garbage, then anything can sound harsh. Also room Acoustics can play a factor.

[@bryede]

@@JohnDoe-jm5ul I think room acoustics are _the_ major factor because of how directly a panel speaker uses room geometry. Because they are mostly directional, there are 2 beams of sound released into the room. The first arrival in the sweet spot will be very clear and accurate but the backwave will take several reflections to disperse into the room and will sound very different with minor positioning changes. When they're set up properly, they can be amazing but they're not going to be plug-and-play like a more traditional speaker.

[@alessandrabenz8109]

@Larry Niles tell us more about ur visit in hell, pleeeese

[@carolineleonard8214]

I wonder if anyone has had a go at the following. A 15" open baffle woofer, married to an electrostatic midrange to lower upper range panel, married to a horn for the upper frequencies. It would probably be a nightmare to get cohesiveness, but I bet that it would be interesting, insightful etc and kick out those bass frequencies. Let's discuss how we could make this happen (no worrying about money of course).

[@explorinlearnindoing5462]

Yeah that came to mind also a few times....

[@ProgRockKeys]

I have horn (JBL 4333a) and panel (Infinity IRS Beta). My favorite electric guitar player happens to be Ritchie Blackmore, his tone is unique, and he only sounds “right” on the horn speakers. The panel speakers sound WAY better for acoustic instruments and classical, most Progressive Rock. For metal or heavy rock, the JBLs still rule.

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

I have the Infinity Kappa 8 original version and they kick some ass IMHO. The polydomes always an issue but I have some of the newer version of them with the grille and replaced one recently. Seems to be sounding better with a little break in. Otherwise these speakers seem pretty bullet proof.

[@ProgRockKeys]

John Doe yes, I also have the Kappa 8. One of polydomes was pushed in, I used a tiny vacuum cleaner cupped with my hand, it pulled right out! Score !

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

@@ProgRockKeys nice! Listening to Deep Purple extended version

[@MrPeeBeeDeeBee]

JBL's for Jazz too. The most authentic drums sounds and dynamics I have heard have been on a JBL of one kind or another... ElectroVoice too - before they sold out.

[@Don-rz6jq]

Boy did I go through the speakers as well.!! First JBL 4343’s amazing dynamics with a bass slam and quickness with huge dynamics unlike anything I ever heard. Next came Acoustat 4’s modified by Phil Keck to 2+2’s then the original Martin Logan CLS’s and now my Magnapan 1.7’s as part of a surround sound system.

[@scottohta2192]

Hi Steve, I usually agree with you but this time I have to differ. My first set of "Audiophile" type speakers were Quad 57s which I still dearly love, I have also owned Quad 63s, and Martin Logans, also many other brands. However my current speakers are in fact Horn loaded, I have been listening to them for about 20 years. I love them for the same reason you love horns, but first started listening to them because they had a quad like midrange, they are relatively trouble free, and they are also easily driven. As Im sure you know, these are qualities that cannot be attributed to eletrostats. But every now and then I have to go back to my old Quads. I am always wowed by their quickness, detail, musicality, and their jaw dropping reproduction of the human voice. I think you will agree that all of us listen for different reasons, Quads never fail to deliver for me goose bumps when playing my favorite tracks.

[@mikehydropneumatic2583]

It is what ever rocks your boat. Fender vs Gretsch vs Gibson, Moog vs Sequential vs Oberheim, you get the idea. It is music related, the genre you listen to as your own personal taste. If somebody wants to give away a set of electrostats, please contact me.

[@dougg1075]

Cool to see all the honesty flowing from this speaker.

[@dougg1075]

Not that you were ever.. you know what I’m sayin:) good stuff Steve

[@randomsomeone1617]

If a speaker cant kick you in the chest its just an annoying noise maker. 😁👍

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

Exactly. It's called a kick drum for a reason. All these wimpy no bass speakers are just that. Annoying. Bought the KEF LS50 with the tons of great reviews had to add 2 subs just to listen to them and it's still wimpy.

[@howardsimpson489]

As an owner of Quad 57 and big Jantzens for years, the speakers put all the faults in the LP/CD and amplifier right in your face. Since much recorded music is so poor in fidelity, just use ordinary systems where you will not notice. With stats the rest of the whole system needs to be first rate.

[@xjimmy225x]

It's funny, I feel the complete opposite. I listened to the cheapest ESL's and thought they sounded really good. Then I listened to the ML 60XT's, the speakers I was considering buying when I walked in the door, and thought they sounded flat and WAY too bass heavy. Ended up with the ML Classic ESL9's and they take my breath away. To each their own but I was very grateful I listened to them in person or I would have make a huge mistake

[@froenesis1]

I think Steve's headline says it all. For him, electrostats are a problem. For others like me certainly not. I do not think it is about "electrostats not being alive" as he says here, but more that it is not the same music and aspects of a recording that engages him and me (and maybe others). His most preferred music is ultimately rock. That's his starting point after all. Nothing wrong with that. I also listen to rock, especially on the phone with a properly chosen headset and dac, but what controls my choice of audiophile equipment is not such music - then I would rather choose horn speakers and excellent tube amps. Furthermore, people who, for example, come from rock emphasize other aspects of a jazz production than those who come from, say, classical backgrounds. This complicates the "right" choice of equipment even more. It's partly about personal history and music socialization. And so on. I have a background as a classical guitarist and trombonist. And I listen a lot to church music, ie music created for the church room. I have the entire ECM catalog of recordings and on different masterings; the same with regard to our Norwegian L2 and Kirkelig kulturverksted (The Church' Culture Workshop) labels. As long as audiophile reproduction of music is about high fidelity, it is crucial to me that the equipment does not "adorn the truth". I want a Yamaha classical concerto guitar to sound like a Yamaha classical concerto guitar, not like an Alhambra guitar and certainly not like a lute. That a trombone has the same brass expression as my instrument that stands in the other corner of my room, not like a baritone horn. That the church organ that Kåre Nordstoga plays the concerts in Oslo Cathedral every month also sounds like that on his Simax records on my Martin Logans. That Jan Garbarek's saxophone mixes believable with The Hillier Ensemble so that it makes the most important thing of all: that "the musical message speaks" so that the hermeneutics between me and the music comes alive. But I must admit that matching the equipment so that electrostats reach their full potential is difficult; but it is easier now with good DSD D / A converters and low distortion amplifiers, playing hi-rez modern recordings and/or streamed from music services like Qobuz. System: Martin Logan ElectroMotion ELS speakers with Dynamo 700 subwoofers, Benchmark DAC2 converter / pre-amp, Benchmark AHB2 power-amp, Pro-ject Streambox 2 Ultra network bridge, NetGear Nighthawk X4S NiP Edition router, Supra and Canare pro audio cables, IsoTek power conditioners for router, network bridge and electrostats. (Michell Engineering / Rega phono equipment.)

[@johnholmes912]

if you listen with electrostats you must listen to only the best recordings

[@kevinhennessey3189]

The best speakers I have ever had are the Sound Lab M1's. However what makes them great makes them very hard to live with. They are very large 9' tall, they go floor to ceiling line source, no floor bounce or ceiling reflections. Enough surface area >3,000 sq " per panel to give bass with weight. But they require good room acoustic treatments, lots of diffusion to sound their best and a big room. They are also happiest with OTL amps, the impedance is 50 ohms below 100 hz and drops to like 4 ohms at 20k hz. A 60W OTL amp like an Atma Sphere will play as loud as a 1,00 watt SS amp. They are easily the best I have ever heard for rock but especially acoustic music. So pretty tough to live with. Since I no longer have the room for this sort of set up, I live happly with a pair of Klipsch Forte III and a smaller tube amp in my current home. Planars and box speakers, no thanks.

[@miepmiepzoefzoef]

Love the sound of acoustic on electrostatics but I cannot own those. Sometimes I play music that seems to cook the membrane

[@darkgreenambulance]

Do you feel - or not feel. that the electrostatic speaker sounds anything like the real thing - compared to others? Whether the real thing in the studio or concert hall has this soul or not you would have to find out. Then you can tell if the "soul is manufactured by the speakers you prefer - or the "no soul" is being faithfully reproduced by the ESLs !

[@alecgrolimond1678]

I have liked but not loved electrostatic speakers. I listened to them often at friend's homes. I guess you are correct I would say in my words very clean sound without soul.

[@Ab20222]

How do the Tekton speakers compare with your favorite Mag .7 and your favorite horn speaker? Are you going to review more Tektons?

[@carlosbauza1139]

I suspect the repertory of percussive instruments and searing brass make a difference here. Their strong impact is concentrated within a horn's limited dispersion pattern. But the e/static spreads the sound widely because of its dipole operation. The way this hits one's ears is a matter of personal preference.

[@TheMirolab]

I 100% agree with Steve's characterization of the 4 types of speakers... I own 3 of the types, but I've never owned Maggies. After a long period in storage, I "washed the panels" and rekindled my relationship with my old MartinLogan SL3's, and I'm enjoying them very much. But it's true, they simply don't move air in the 100-400Hz range to make things FEEL real. They sure sound pretty though, and the SL3's go plenty low with sealed 10" woofers. I love Martin-Logans, but if I HAD to choose, I'd prefer dynamic speakers. I think every audiophile should own each type for a while, just for the experience (if you can afford it of course).

[@benwitt6902]

What, Steve has come out as an antistatite.

[@luomoalto]

Exactly what Paul McGowan said about electrostatics...

[@HareDeLune]

Wow Steve, I need to go on some kind of audiophile tour with you. I really want to hear some of these qualities you describe! Unfortunately, I haven't been able to audition a lot of equipment over the years, and with the disappearence of most brick & mortar stores, it doesn't look like I ever will.

[@keithdevito809]

Steve- I appreciate your remarks and preferences. I want to share with you a sound system that was put together from the ground up by an ex- colleague of mine that he calls a "wall of sound". I don't know if it reaches the level of audio performance to satisfy you from from a dynamic speaker standpoint, this system is completely insane. Here is a link: www.dougronald.com/sound_images.htm.

[@kentonkirkpatrick5225]

I thought The Klipsch La Scalla IIs midrange sounded very electrostatic like. Would really like to hear some big Klipschs with beryllium diaphragms and an active bass driver.

[@RickRoberts_simplyrick]

The MBL Radialstrahler , the Apogee free standing (no magnetic panel behind it - think the tweeter midrange strips) and the Ohm full range (F) driver were probably closer to what is the best of all technologies... Some would say the Infinity IRS systems were also in that category. That said, the Martin Logan CLS came the closest to true electrostat sound. Quads are mini ES panels, kind of like the Sound Lab. Doing hybrid dynamic and electrostatic works only to a certain extent. We did a CLS panel mated to transmission line subs (KEF 139B drivers) crossed over at 80 Hz that worked real well. A best of both worlds sound, raved about at a CES back then. .

[@explorinlearnindoing5462]

Thats funny; I listen to CLS II speakers and wanted to build a IB sub for them but someone mentioned Acoustat X or 2+2 speakers because they have better bass... But I also think about buying Apogee Scintilla speakers.... Only for the CLS I would need a sub... Sooo what do you think would sound best of these 4 ?

[@jeffharper410]

Ever hear a big pair Sound Labs combined with a subwoofer?

[@rtg97229]

Try Acoustat Spectra 44 speakers and see if you still think that electrostatic speakers don't have dynamics.

[@James_Ryan]

Must confess that I've never heard electrostatics in person, although I almost owned electrostatic headphones (Jecklin Float) - it was lost in the mail and the store did not have any more in stock to send, so they sent me the dynamic version instead. I do like lots of treble (I usually add +14 db at 16 kHz and + 8db at 14 kHz to brighten things up) so maybe electrostatics would appeal to me...

[@Frisenette]

It would be very interesting and productive to quantify what that “soul” is. It’s fine to start of with mysticism but your aim or intent must be to explain.

[@1sostatic]

I like the sound of all the planar style speakers - I couldn't live with them because of the ways they fail; and they fail when young...they're made from adhesives that break down.

[@sandongabundunga9052]

I have electrostats and a horn sub (both more or less DIY) - I love the sound. COULD be that it's not as dynamic, or soulless and lifeless, but... You know, from an audiophiliac's point of view, that the soul of a speaker matters might be very true. The other side of the coin is that it's not really really about the speaker, it's the music that is enjoyable, just as a restaurant might look dull and boring, but the food blows you away.. I might be as biased as anybody..

[@pigwillnot8281]

horn speakers for me please !

[@johnlebeau5471]

It is all just a matter of taste. ALL speakers are a series of compromises. A 20hz bass horn would be longer than your house, with a mouth as big as the wall in your room. Therefore, all horns are either hybrids or folded and bass shy. The Magnapan 30.7, and I do love Magnapans, has four large panels and stops at 40hz. Box speakers, if sealed are inefficient, if ported, the port makes noise. Electrostatics, if flat, are extremely directional, and the curve on Martin Logans causes increased tension when moving towards the listener, and not enough tension when moving away. All panel speakers, to get real bass, must be very large (Martin Logan has a dynamic subwoofer on their designs). The big Sound Labs, and they are very big, are curved facets with a claimed 25hz low end. Where electrostatics, and to a lesser extent, ribbons, excel, is in their extremely low moving mass. That's why they are considered "transparent". A compression driver midrange and up horn, also has a very low moving mass, but no bass. Combine that with large dynamic drivers in an open baffle, and you have a very exciting dynamic system--except for that back wave cancellation effect. Drat!

[@TheMaxx111]

I feel like the problem most people have with electrostatic speakers can be solved with a good subwoofer or two......

[@Durawing]

Exploring the dynamic dimension, and Steve puts himself on the utter right side, no politics, just he wants his dynamics max. And don't we all? But, there are tradeoffs, mostly in tonality. You want tonal purity, get a good lineair speaker. Like my Harbeth P3ESR. Want excitement, go for horns, or other very sensitive speakers. Of course it also depends on your room, budget, and you're willing to host, some of those high sensitive speakers can get seriously big if you want bass extention too. Listen, make up your mind what you want, listen again, choose.

[@mcarthurdylan]

Hey Steve, you should check out Joseph Crowe E250. He horn loaded the neo8 planar magnetic it may be a interesting cross section between two worlds.

[@paolo60333]

I own Sound Lab since 2005 in all theirs incarnations. There is not no more present, realistic, you-are-there sound than ELS speakers can offer. But if you prefer the nasal sound of the horns please go there

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

That's fantastic! Enjoy.

[@MangoZen]

I agree with your observation that planar magnetics occupy a middle ground between electrostats and dynamic speakers. I’m very sensitive to crossover implementation and can’t listen to Martin Logan’s, for example (hybrid). I’ve been very happy with my ribbon/planar magnetic speakers for decades. They fit my tastes just right (Apogees). Note I said my tastes, not the tired rant about recreating the live event....

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

ESLs are like rotary engines. Lots of RPM but no torque and require special handling to make them work at their best and hold up. I am a self confessed fanboi of both.

[@TheJimmyjames8888]

Yep. I agree. I lived with maggies for 20yrs and ultimately they did not work for me and my room. They have no bass heft, slam or pressure. Neither do electrostats.

[@eldonnparks8059]

ESL speakers need a good tube preamp and tube power amplification. The transistor, FET class A or A/B amplifiers sound too shrill and edgy. However a good dynamic speaker will sound best with a great FET preamp and full class A amp. They won't go as high in frequency or respond as fast as an ESL. The dynamic speaker effectively muffles a shrill transistor sound. The effect can be pleasing and done on a budget. But an ESL is more exciting like opening a window to a concert.

[@drbarney1000]

I have always wondered what electrostatic would sound like if they were connected directly to high voltage SET radio station transmitting tubes to bypass the step up transformer and the output transformer. I would not want to own such a thing because if it ever arced the filter capacitors in the high voltage plate supply to the tube would go off like a cherry bomb.

[@juliangreen73]

I love stats. After using Quad 63s with dipole subs, then onto Martin Logan Ascents (treble too splashy from that curved panel tho), so back to Quad 63s with sealed subs and room EQ, then divorce (speakers are definitely implicated...), then to modern Janszens (ZA 1.1s) - sorted. Normal-sized, monopole element, astonishing speakers, easy to drive and in my opinion much better than the Martin Logans for imaging and bass, more powerful than the Quads and easier to place. But I will always have a soft spot for that Quad holography.

[@socksumi]

If you don't like electrostatics stay true to your Zu Audios Steve. They are efficient and go loud after all. I'm guessing a a roller coaster frequency response and gobs of ringing and stored energy is your idea of accurate sound, right?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Accuracy isn't a priority for me, and apparently dynamics and scale are not a priority for you. The point is you can't have it all. We each choose our sound.

[@famousutopias]

Still slumming it with some 63s. I feel so deprived

[@gabrielarch5242]

I for one would love to see a review or series of reviews on the latest top of the line Klipsch offerings

[@anticristo661]

Hi Steve I was wondering if you can make a video to explain how can I start in the high end audio world. It just seems like there are a lot of brands and equipment that I didn't even knew that existed

[@adotopp1865]

Thanks for this

[@marceljohanning7220]

What do you think of Stax Earphones? Think it is a little differnt game when you put the electrostatic speaker direct to your ear.

[@chrisvinicombe9947]

So the answer is to find horns and electrostat speakers that work together.

[@RocknRonni]

Electrostatics are very transparent there for you need a great power amplifier with gobs of power also you need a fairly large room for them to work properly if you don't have those two they won't sound good

[@socksumi]

It's probably the directional sound typical of most electrostatics that you don't like. There are a few wider dispersion electrostatics that might change your mind. Soundlab for one with their angled strips... and Muraudio which currently makes the only 360 degree electrostatics on the market but so expensive. It's not just the resolution and coherency of electrostatics that i like, it's their subjective sense of low distortion. Good ones really do sound unstrained at all volume levels. Which is more than i can say for your Zu Audio speakers which to my ears are far more fatiguing and strained.

[@rexsterling7346]

if that were the case, then he wouldn't be so in love with his Maggies

[@raulmartin2197]

For me, is the Ohms frs -11 ! Try to match that one !!! That's the closest I have been to a live performance!!!

[@EddyTeetree]

Hi Steve. Are you saying that the Magi 7’s get it closest as an all rounder?

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

I'm saying I prefer Maggies to stats.

[@francescocirri5163]

I stubbornly stick to some (selected) old-fashioned commonplaces. Like: there is a genre for every speaker (like to everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven). I still have fond memories of hearing prototypes of ELS driven by OTL tube amps (direct drive) at an hi-fi show in the late '80s. Maybe they wouldn't do rock. But they did strings better than anything else I've ever heard. So maybe if we were reach we could keep ELS's for strings and play other music with other speakers. It's a straightforward way to deal with trade-offs of the kind SG talks about here, isn't it?

[@jordi0508]

Plus they break all the time so you have to keep an extra pair like when I OWNED 2 pr of 988’s

[@MrStewbee]

I owned Audiostatic... beautiful looking... they just didn't do it for me... I need a dynamic box.

[@darrens7040]

nice observations Steve

[@scottlowell493]

The sounded ethereal to me, and like midrange only. Not much on top and no bass except from a cone. I enjoyed a variety of them for limited reasons. In the end analysis, they lack too much for me.

[@LeoSavantt]

The newer large Quads are remarkable, but compared to a good horn they lack the magic. Why? I've no idea, but after half an hour of Quad listening I want to get up and do something else, with my Tannoy corner horns I just want to keep listening.

[@edwardbalboa5528]

I want to see ASR review these

[@sonofacheron]

One of Steve's best videos. Pretty spot on actually. "Horns are the polar opposite of electrostatics": this (well the part where he says horns have "balls" suggesting a lack there of among electrostatics )had me laughing my ass off because I own big horns and my audiophile friend owns Martin Logan electrostats. Cerebral and resolving vs soul and balls. 😆

[@alanshayler941]

All the electrostat speakers I've heard (which isn't many tbf) sound too clinical to me they make all the right noises it just didn't feel right

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Electrostatics are challenging. I have heard some absolutely setup perfectly and others that drive me out of the room. Hard to generalize, but owning more than one system is one way to go.

[@randomtube8226]

I don't like electrostatic speakers myself. Its just too expensive for what you get. Not worth it in my opinion. Same goes for plainar. I totally agree about the dynamics of horn speaker's. My passion for horn speaker's started with Klipsch.

[@jackdale9249]

Seems to me ( and i used to have a good friend Bruce Wilson ,RIP , that owned Wilson audio in Tucson AZ ) that audiophiles just want to always try something new & different ! and not always better what I hear YOU, ( and to be fair , many others doing ! there MUST be a speaker (s) that makes really good sound and does NOT cost zillions and you could live w/ ! FOREVER ! I really like the idea of electrostatic and other high tech speakers and common! wouldn't the cheaper ones w/a good woofer & sub woofer ( or two ) be good enough ? gosh now you can get some for $650 a pair ? Ok w/ my 100 watt per channel consumer sony A/V receiver ? and i need 5.1 ! or 7.1 so i buy this $650 pair set ( for example, what do I do for a center channel and the rear and high front ? could i use 3+ of the BenQ Tre Volo 2 ? currently mine are all Yamaha to keep them in the same family ! thx ! PS I am too old to keep lusting after, trying different things!

[@brianruhl7761]

If I hear Quad speakers mentioned again I swear I'll poke my eyes our

[@RennieAsh]

Brian Ruhl I have a pair of quad normal box speakers. They’re not too bad at all!

[@brianruhl7761]

@@RennieAshGreat ..I now need to find a seeing eye dog

[@dilbyjones]

Lol !