The PROBLEM with Finland's MYTHOLOGY

#finland #history #vlog
clip used in this video was from the very talented and amazing @Anttimation
The Kalevala is a 19th-century work of epic poetry compiled by Elias Lönnrot from Karelian and Finnish oral folklore and mythology,[1] telling an epic story about the Creation of the Earth, describing the controversies and retaliatory voyages between the peoples of the land of Kalevala called Väinölä and the land of Pohjola and their various protagonists and antagonists, as well as the construction and robbery of the epic mythical wealth-making machine Sampo, In today's video I discuss about the problem that one might face when looking into Finnic mythology!

[@yorkaturr]

Lönnrot was only scratching the surface when he wrote the Kalevala. It would be safe to say that there are hundreds of thousands of Kalevala-measure poems that were not included, as even the published Suomen Kansan Vanhat Runot compilation of 34 volumes covers 100 000 poems that are not a part of the Kalevala. That's 34 thick books Additionally there are still tens of thousands of unpublished poems that can be found from the electronic archives of SKVR. It would be impossible to come up with a coherent story from all of it.

[@IrishinFinland]

Yeah I've been going through them the last few weeks!

[@TV-jn4dh]

Why would it need to be one coherent story? Unless you're a devout pagan, it shouldn't matter. Stories and poems are awesome enough just for what they are

[@ItsAweeb]

@@TV-jn4dh Actually even if you were a devout pagan one wouldnt care for the coherent story. These are myths and and people all around the world were fine with the fractured mythos heck it was actually the point, especially in greece where mystery cults tended to reign for example the ever popular eleusinian mysteries where no one actually knew the "true story" of kore and hades (well apart from the mystery cult and even then we cant be sure) Or my faivorite example Homers odyssey was basically just a large set of oral stories before homer just wrote them down into one big narrative (well homer didint, but the point stands) meaning people had no need for "true" canon for several hundred or more years

[@talvetar3385]

Have To Ad. SKVR is not only epical poems, heroic stories like in Kalevala, but also lyric poems, ( Kanteletar) Those are More local stuff (oral tradition of women mainly) Which have had huge impact To Finnish music In all genres until today. SKVR is a real treasure and unique and one of the kind In whole world.

[@yorkaturr]

​@@TV-jn4dh I was trying to point out that we don't know the truth of what our Finnish ancestors believed, and we are never going to be able to figure it out because the source material is so large in volume. The idea that our pagan ancestors had some sort of academic belief system such as the canonical Christian Bible is incorrect.

[@liucconen]

Lönnrot believed in creating national identity, instead of "returning to roots". He believed Karelian mythology in praticular was the "uncorrupted" version of mythology of also Finnish peoples, but at the time his goals were about creating something cool to base national identity on, instead of retaining something that had always been there. There were not many people who had done research on this subject back in the day and Lönnrot remains among the pioneers on this subject, and Kalevala is of course very well known, but in practice he was more like nationalist romantic Finnish Tolkien instead of religious leader of sorts. Finnish mythology and Kalevala are intertwined but one does not really mean the other.

[@herptek]

Karelianism was an intellectual fashion among the national romantic cultural elite prior and after Finnish independence. It eventually had a great influence with political ramifications as well, as I'm sure you know. National identity based on ethno-cultural considerations is extremely invested in political potency.

[@noahjones9833]

That sounds a lot like he simply wanted to create a pretty idea of finnish culture for attention and nationalism and if so, doesn't deserve attention

[@sliceofheaven3026]

@@noahjones9833 Finland was under russian rule during that time and the latter half of 1900th century and the early part of 20th century were eras of opression where russia tried to make finland a more integral part of the russia as a whole (russia as official language, orthodoxy as the official religion and so on). I dont think Finland is the only country which has some kind of mythology to base its identity on.

[@Pherdacil]

Let's just remember that Kalevala is also the national epic of Karelia and a large part of it is comprised of Karelian poetry (poems sung in Karelian language and translated into Finnish). To be honest, I got disappointed that you didn't mention this at all. But the issues you raised are valid as well. Kalevala is a great piece of literature, but I'm personally more interested in the oral poetry not related to it and prefer to go straight to the 'source', which is SKVR. Of course, the poems are filtered through the understanding and biases of many collectors, like Lönnrot, Ahlqvist and Europaeus. But at least we have that vast collection to study and learn from.

[@Anttimation]

Kalevala is, imo, much like the Lord of the Rings of its time: a mythical fantasy tale inspired by ancient Finnic runes, put together by a beloved academic. Tolkien just added more of his own and other spices.

[@danielmalinen6337]

Tolkien also took a lot of influence from the Kalevala and loved its stories. There is even a story that after reading the Kalevala for the first time, Tolkien had run out from the library to the university yard and started shouting different characters from the Kalevala, although it is very doubtful that this anecdote about Tolkien is true. But later, Tolkien wrote the Story of Kullervo and the Children of Húrin inspired by Lönnrot's Tragedy of Kullervo.

[@Anttimation]

@@danielmalinen6337 yeah that's one of my favourites of his stories, so damn dark.

[@DanielosVK]

The problem with mythology very often is that there is no "real thing". If you went back to 1800's and visited different parts of Finland, you might encounter 10 different versions of the creation myth and many others as well... that's how oral tradition works - it's very dynamic and each community adds/changes something on their own. :)

[@kante1e]

Yup. I was told a completely different version of the creation myth. It describes Ilmatar more or less creating life since she didn't have anything better to do after falling down into the endless ocean that was the world. The first time I heard the more famous egg story was in elementary school. I always liked the bored Ilmatar version more. Basically a don't take life for granted kinda thing. And for the record, I grew up in southern Finland in the Uusimaa area

[@vickis.9363]

One must hear the Bock Saga to get to the root of the problem.

[@mikahamari6420]

As a Finn, on my opinion Elias Lönnrot was a genius. As you described, he collected material and used it to create something very remarkable. When there was few years ago a competition about the greatest Finn of all times, I chose Lönnrot. Poem singers like Arhippa Perttunen are my heroes, and Lönnrot has some lineage with them, same heritage as a divine singer from our past.

[@OldForestBushcraft]

Great comment. I was thinking the exact same when there was this ’greatest finn’ competition. Would have chose Lönnrot hands down. Genius guy. Just visited his birth house. (Did also a video of it). Cheers!

[@JamieBar]

Lonnrot's ability to record and preserve oral tradition was so influential that the University of Turku was considered the world's leading institution on the preservation of folklore at the time

[@mikahamari6420]

@@OldForestBushcraft Great, thanks for telling! Kalevala is a real treasure.

[@mikahamari6420]

@@JamieBar Yes, it was a remarkable feat with the equipment available on those times. It feels almost like a miracle, how it was even possible, but I am so happy it was.

[@puliturchannel7225]

Lemminkäinen character, my favourite in Kalevala, is actually merged from many characters, Kaukomieli was one, and he was in some ways linked to Thor of the viking sagas. I don't know if I was disappointed or impressed about that. Because as I said, it is my favourite character and quite uniform in his ways, I would have never guessed. Otherwise about the readability of Kalevala for a finn: it is very hard read, because it mixes lines of diverse dialects under one poem/book. It is hard to pinpoint why is it so difficult read, of course there is the fact that it is very old language and in kalevala-measure, but I think all the different dialects make it even more of a boss fight when it comes to readability of epics.

[@jarikeinanen7713]

Delightful perspective, especially coming from Irish fellow. Yeah, I don't think Finns in generally take Kalevala as the only source for our mythology. Like you said, Lönnrot's epic really is the refined re-telling of the old tales brewed into a final song of Finnish nationality with christian heart and folk lore roots. There are other older stories, but Kalevala kinda is the pinnacle of the Finnish mythology. Great to know that you can distinguish the written compilations from the perhaps lost original mythology I'm only started re-reading Kalevala and Finnish folk lore related books. This is one thing I can share; Risto Pulkkinen's book"Suomalainen kansanusko" writes with couple examples that even Lönnrot made a huge swift in his later re-publications of Kalevala (1835 vs. 1849). Namely Väinämöinen's journey into Giant Vipunen and death of Bear were originally described more spiritual journey and other-worldly passing. Later edition supposedly downplays spiritual aspects and changes the story more to down-to-earth fashion telling - according to Risto Pulkkinen Good luck recovering more Finnish mythology

[@vtimari]

As you were wondering about animation series of Kalevala... this is not exactly it, but there actually is quite a comprehensive cartoon book series (total of ~150 pages in two volumes) made by Kristian Huitula. It was made in 1999, it seems there are still some available. It could whet your appetite while waiting for an animated version ;-)

[@philosophyversuslogic]

Thank you so much for the vid!

[@danielmalinen6337]

Kalevala Lipas (The Kalevala Chest) by Matti Kuusi is an excellent SKS book about the origin and edition history of the Kalevala, which I recommend. Lönnrot wrote several versions of the Kalevala, edited the runes a lot, harmonizes the narration of the stories, invented his own characters (such as Ilmatar and Aino), filled the gaps with his own runes and the current Kalevala is actually the 5th edition of the epic. The book also tells how Lönnrot paid Karelian rune singers with beer until they were unable to continue and how he also stole some Ingerian runes collected by his colleagues and took them under his own name. Elias Lönnrot, on the other hand, also did a lot of dechristianization to runes that had some influence of Christianity, for example, in the poem about the search for the sun and the moon, the seeker of the lights was originally Christ and in the rune story about the fishing of Vellamo maiden, Väinämöinen's fishing partner was the virgin Mary, but Lönnrot removed and changed some of these influences when he editing these folk runes.

[@IrishinFinland]

Thank you for this! 🤟🏻🤟🏻

[@hurri7720]

Kaleva is one of those "books" we in Finland had to read in school (If that is the case today I don't know) and it's never the most selling point for anything. I am sure I have read most of it but never in one go. Perhaps I will now as retired, do it. What has impressed me is that J.R.R. Tolkien liked Kalevala so much that he learned to read it in Finnish. Quoting the Wikipedia: "J. R. R. Tolkien claimed the Kalevala as one of his sources for The Silmarillion. For example, the tale of Kullervo is the basis of Túrin Turambar in Narn i Chîn Húrin, including the sword that speaks when the anti-hero uses it to commit suicide.[10] Aulë, the Lord of Matter and the Master of All Crafts, was influenced by Ilmarinen, the Eternal Hammerer.[97] Echoes of the Kalevala's characters, Väinämöinen in particular, can be found in Tom Bombadil of The Lord of the Rings." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevala#Works_inspired_by It would not surprise me if Elias Lönnrot heard slightly different versions in different villages during his travel as it's Finnish oral folklore, and that he had to pick and choose some. As for making a good program about it, the Japanese made the Moomins so well that it wouldn't surprise if they could make Kalevala too.

[@JainMonroe]

I know one book, but there is no English version of it, the name of the book is Itämerensuomalaisten mytologia In addition to the Kaleva poem, the mythology of the Baltic Finns leads its readers to the shamanistic concept of the soul, the Finns' genetic inheritance and the diverse interaction of ancient cultures. Many Finnish myths unfold with the help of, for example, Mordva poetry, Ob and Altai traditions, or old Scandinavian stories. Kalevala-style poetry was not only the property of Finns and Karelians. Almost half of the Kalevala's ingredients can also be found in Estonian folklore. In addition, these songs were sung by the people of Inger and Vatja. They form a tangle of Baltic Finns' myths and explanations of the world. Academician Anna-Leena Siikala compiled the results of her significant life's work into a book about the poetry of the Finnish peoples of the Baltic Sea, shamanism and orally inherited religion. This work is a guide to our common cultural heritage.

[@IrishinFinland]

Excellent thank you!

[@JainMonroe]

@@IrishinFinland I tried to look for other books on Finnish mythology, but I can't find an English version of them, this book also exists, its name is Suomalainen mytologia

[@varjovirta3085]

Great book, but unfortunately it is now little bit outdated information since we now know Comb ceramic wasn't Uralic. You know if you have seen latest studies on datings of arrival uralic languages is now bronze age so. Also her presentation of some stuff is little bit confusing. Our true non-kalevalan mythology has even more to do with Tengrism than Scandinavian myths, but i am not saying that Scandinavia hasn't influenced finnish religion. We have deities Tulen emä, Veden emä but also Tulen isä Veden isä etc. Everything was this mother this father this etc and not just we find these from other uralic peoples but these type of deities can be also found in Siberia, East-Asia and Native American religions. examples i can mention from Tengri religion (or what ever it is called) Su-ana and Su ata (water mother) (water father) Od ana and Od ata (fire mother) (fire father) I am not saying these religions are straightly related but i think our mythology has even more to do with that stuff than IE-religions.

[@MrOutomies]

There actually are some animations made from the Kalevala. My dad Reino Niiniranta made it into an animated series that aired on TV in the 70s. He used silhouette figures, and I think he captured the atmosphere of the Kalevala quite successfully. These animations were also shown on television in other countries, especially in Eastern Europe. As far as I know, there is also an English version of it. My brothers and I have a digitized version of the series in Finnish, which we will publish on KZbin, hopefully in the near future.

[@IrishinFinland]

Oh awesome! I'll try find it and check it out!

[@flyfin108]

looking forward for it

[@MilenaAnnina]

There is TV show called Rauta-aika based loosely on Kalevala. Might be in Yle Areena.

[@oskariratinen1213]

You pretty much nailed it. Lönnrot was a great writer and a masterful compiler, and no one can take that away from him. Kalevala is a masterpiece. However, it is epic prose based on Finnish mythology, not "pure" Finnish mythology. Then again, the idea of a monolithic, clearly defined and unchanging version of a mythology is alien to the very nature of oral tradition passed on for generations. Oral tradition is organic and ever changing, even though in the case of Baltic-Finnic people there is the trochaic tetrameter (the "Kalevala meter") to help the reciter to memorize the verses. However, we are talking about centuries, even millennia of oral tradition being passed down the chain of generations here. For example, the bulk of the Sampo cycle is estimated to have originated around 1000 AD in Southwestern Finland, and Lönnrot and his contemporaries recorded the poems some 800 years later - in White Karelia, hundreds of kilometers away. There is a proven migration of people from Southwestern Finland to White Karelia in the archaeological record, and to this day the Karelian language spoken in White Karelia is the closest relative to modern Finnish language, sometimes indistinguishable from it really, so we know how the poems got there, but we have no idea how much they changed along the way. In any case, the poems that make up the story of the forging of Sampo and the struggle for controlling it had been travelling from one singer to another for nearly a millennium before they were recorded, and we have no way of really knowing what they were like originally. The best guess in my opinion is that they were the "action movies" of their time, songs about the deeds of mighty heroes who may have been actual living persons once. During centuries, legendary and mythic elements were incorporated. So, at which point was there a period of "pure" Finnish mythology? Never, really. Oral tradition effectively prevents you from having such "purity", so you shouldn't seek for it either, not in Kalevala and not anywhere else either. What you can do is look for elements that have most probably remained fairly unchanged for the longest periods of time. Most importantly, the reverence of nature and dependence on its bounty for sustenance. That is, and shall probably always remain, at the core of Finnish indigenous spirituality, for a lack of better expression. In the Finnish pantheon you can see more clearly than probably anywhere else the prevalence of the gods and entities that are connected to hunter-gatherer type lifestyle rather than farming and animal husbandry. Even in Norse mythology the Vanir that represent the more archaic nature gods are scarcely there, but in Finnish mythology, gods and entities of the raw forces of nature take the center stage and never really lose it to the gods of agriculture. To summarize, don't strive to be "right". There is no "right" in this matter. You have sources, and it's good to acknowledge them properly, but the true nature of Finnish mythology and spirituality is not written down on paper. When you hear the poems, the legends and the myths, you become a part of that chain of generations that has passed them on, and you are perfectly free to make your own interpretation. That's what it is all about. Interpretations. That's what it has always been, that's the beauty of oral tradition. No one can shackle or control it, no one can burn you as a heretic for being "wrong".

[@IrishinFinland]

Thank you for this comment! Will definitely help going forward, I appreciate you 🙏🏻 cheers!

[@oskariratinen1213]

@@IrishinFinland no problem. I'm just happy to see someone interested in this subject, because the Finns themselves generally don't care enough to even call many of our traditional celebrations with their actual names, with way more people for example celebrating Halloween (itself a commercialization of Samhain) than Kekri. By the way, the late, great Anna-Leena Siikala is pretty much the authority on the academic research of the subject, if you want a scholarly point of view. Her magnum opus "Itämerensuomalainen mytologia" (The Baltic-Finnic Mythology) hasn't been translated to English as of yet, but many of her earlier works have, of which "Interpreting Oral Narrative (1990)" and "Mythic Images and Shamanism: A Perspective on Kalevala Poetry (2002)", both published by FF Communications, should be helpful for anyone wanting to learn about this subject. Earlier classics include Martti Haavio and Uno Harva, and the latter has actually published in English, but his book "Finno-Ugric, Siberian Mythology" was published in 1927 and I would imagine that getting your hands on that might not be very easy.

[@marqpsmythe228]

I’d love to see more Kalevala My mom was a Finn, middle name Kyllikki. A Lutheran but culturally steeped the Kalevala. She gave me a copy of Lönnrot’s book 40+ years ago. I consider it true poetical account of “real” events. Similar to the Mahabharata. And we know who transcribed/wrote it. That can’t be said for the Bible. There’re lessons to be learnt about life from many great books. The Kalevala has taught me a lot. Markku, Yksi sukupolvi Outokummusta 🇫🇮

[@vickis.9363]

Have you heard of the Bock Saga?

[@eerokinos6213]

One can argue that Kalevala is not Finnish mythology. Well basically more like Finnic or Baltic Finnic (I'm not sure but these poems might have existed in nowadays Estonia). Poems are probably older than any region you would call Finland. But it is rather irrelevant because you can go as far as Africa and find similar storylines. Another thing is that Kalevala poems (songs) are often associated with kantele. A baltic finnic version of zither. Another folk instrument would be jouhikko (jouhikannel) which is quite similar to Welsh crwth. Bagpipes where also played several hundred years ago but they have vanished. So folklore is never as regional as one might expect.

[@janimutikainen7074]

There is excellent finnish-soviet film from 1959 called Sampo. Really enjoyed it. Also YLE Teema has Rauta-aika TV series from early 80s.

[@IrishinFinland]

I'll check them out!

[@sabithasajan5564]

Thankyou for hearing my request on Finnish creation myth 😊. May the finnish pantheon bless you.

[@IrishinFinland]

👌🏻 my pleasure 🤟🏻

[@blacksmith88]

I think the most important thing is that individual stories and poems also have an original idea about why these stories has been told through the ages.

[@k4rz43]

I have my grandpa's Kalevala printed in the 60s that I just finished last year (it's the original version so it was quite difficult to read at times, lol). The introduction of the book says Elias Lönnrot added some biblical verses because he was afraid the Christian church in Finland would ban it for paganism. I don't remember if it was just a theory, though.

[@IrishinFinland]

That's interesting! And entirely plausible!

[@hanbill]

I would say it's true because Christianity hated pagan stuff

[@wihamaki]

@@hanbill Yet they adopted so much of it.

[@Einari1983]

The biggest issue with Finnic mythology is separating it from Indo-European mythology. Also, some Indo-European myths have probably taken influence from Finnic mythology. My own hypothesis is that Finnish culture is of the same cultural continuity as ancient Neanderthal culture: Finnish culture is what ancient Neanderthal culture has evolved into over the millennia (notable features: sauna and šamanism). If my hypothesis is correct, the Norse myths mentioning glaciers in their creation myth might come from proto-Finnic mythology since glaciers melting would have been important to Neanderthals.

[@varjovirta3085]

WTF are you talking about? Finnish language and mythology (or actually Baltic-Finnic mythology not just Finnish) is Uralic which are from Asia. Don't promote nonsense.

[@Einari1983]

@@varjovirta3085 You promote old Swedish, Russian and Soviet propaganda (Indo-European misconception about Indo-European peoples being original Europeans - they're not). It's very unlikely that Finnic people come from the east. It's far more likely that Finnic people have expanded from Europe toward Asia in ancient (10,000 BC - 6,000 BC) time. But hey, you can believe the official truth (all academics side with the official truth because it help with claims that Finns aren't really a people at all - which is always the goal of socialists). I assume you're still wearing your covid mask and are going for your 4th booster shot as well.

[@kora4185]

Omg finally someone with the same hypothesis I have. I once almost tried to talk about it and shut up when people started to look at me crazy 😅

[@hanbill]

Love to see Anttimation's work, it's so beautiful Edit: What I could bet on the reason why there isn't animation about Kalevala is because no one wants to take that risk to ruin it. Which then also might give different ideas than the book. Aku Ankka (Donald Duck) comic series has these Kalevala stories and those barely are passable, in my opinion. And published Kalevala book is sadly very short story in the end. As in other comment is told.

[@IrishinFinland]

He's a legend!

[@Synergiekanal]

I wonder it we would get more ground of the finnish past - and the later findings of Lönnrot , if we could compare with the writings of Messenius, whilst he was in prison in Kajaani Linna. Just thinking. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@S4ne]

Do not forget Lönnrots helper D.E.D Europeaus who e.g. brought the poems about Kullervo (Which inspired Tolkien to write the story of Túrin Turambar which can found in Silmarillion) to Lönnrot and who also invented words we Finns still use like "eduskunta, harrastus, huvila, tasa-arvo and toimeentulo" And about animated Kalevala, dunno is this serie going to continue but it has been started at least and it appears to be in English kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKizlmaihbuWkKc

[@jixxytrix1705]

I agree, Aaron. It's an anointing haha Ya Fidlam Ben!

[@Ounouh]

What I find fascinating is the possibility that some old archives (in Sweden, for example) would still have some uncatalogued written historical documents or detailed descriptions of old Finnish culture. From the time before Sweden conquered Finland and with forcing Christianity destroyed all the pagan traditions and beliefs.

[@velshu]

That is not entirely true. What is true is that Sweden started bringing in Christianity to Finland, but Finnish paganism was a part of our culture for centuries after. Finns just started adopting Christianity into the culture themselves. I personally think that is because of the similarities that are between Finnish paganism and Christianity. Christianity, and Christian identity eventually became the main decisive factor between Finns and Russians in the late 1800's at the brink of independence.

[@Ounouh]

@@velshu Let's call it imported Christianity then. No matter if it was Swedes or converted Finns who were destroying anything resembling old Finnish pagan Gods, traditions or beliefs, the end result is the same. Hope someone kept notes of the heretics and maybe, hopefully, something survived in Swedish archives.

[@velshu]

@@Ounouh That is what I tried to correct you about, there was no systematic destruction of Finnish pagan culture. Finns had their own pagan way centuries after the first crusade and the crusades were not violent towards Finns. The opposite happened, Finns were violent against the crusaders. One example of this Häme insurrection, where Pope Gregory IX asked help from the archbishop as he had no control over the people, who were pagan in around 1200.

[@JanoTuotanto]

Copenhagen might be the place to go. Danes looted Kuusisto castle before Vasa had it destroyed. The bishops palace would have been a likely place to hold such archives. And books were valuable in middle ages ( as recycled paper if nothing else)

[@Seer_Of_The_Woodlands]

I have to say, I've been wondering the same thing all my life, why aren't there any animated series or movies about Kalevala. Pakko kyllä sanoa olen kyllä koko ikäni ihmetellyt samaa että miksi ei ole animaato sarjaa tai elokuvia kalevalasta.,

[@Raminess]

As a non-Finn who had also read the Kalevala, I thought the problem discussed would be, "What IS the Sampo exactly?" Because I have a vague idea in my head but can't seem to figure out what it would actually look like!

[@IrishinFinland]

That's a subject I'm working on for a future video!

[@juckey2730]

The illustration of Don Rosa is the image that have stuck with me the most. Yet at the same time I see it as a pillar, which stems from the fact that the name "sampo" derives from the word "sammas", which means pillar. From this I drew my own conclusion that Sampo is actually a variant from the Yggdrasil mythos, with the exception that it is made of metal and by man.

[@suski5706]

Funny enough, there is an action movie of sorts, called jade soturi (Jade Warrior). It was quite a take on Kalevala and got much attention because it was so different from what Finnish cinema usually is.

[@Sir_Baddington]

Have you read Mythologia Fennica(1789) by Kristfrid Ganander? It is older than Kalevala and it contains some old poems of creation of the world.

[@velho6298]

I can still remember Kalevala from my elementary school. I would think that there is something from Lönnrot's own beliefs at least in the way it has been structured

[@gordonstewart8258]

What you said about The Kalevala is true about every surviving mythology. The main difference with the Kalevala is, because it was compiled relatively recently, we know more about it's composer, and we have a much larger body of background material still available.

[@karrimuurimaa5622]

It is not only lönnrot being christian, but the church control what was being published. It is a miracle that it was possible with so little editing.

[@hextatik_sound]

I'd love Kalevala animated series if it's made in style of Netflix's Castlevania.

[@IrishinFinland]

oh yes! That would be awesome

[@talvetar3385]

Yes, Lönnrot edited the texts. From the Same poems are hundreds of versions. That was oral traditional. So also those biblical phrases existed and all of it was sung. After all, Kalevala is about the Same "mythology" than many other stories In many parts of the world. About Ascension and so on. This is Basic stuff, many People just dont get that. Louhi is Kali and so on. And yes, a lot of books and articles written about it. For Folklorist nothing new under the sun, when suddenly Kalevala is being even demonised. Lönnrot was not a bad guy. He was a doctor too and Super passioned about Finnish language. On the time when Swedish was the official language and the only one in education. Multiple words In Finnish language are from Lönnrot. It was outrageous on that time when Lönnrot said that school should be In Finnish. The most of the People have no idea How huge impact he had for the Finnish language and How strong it is now.

[@OldForestBushcraft]

Great channel! Thanx for awesome videos!. Just visited his birthplace. Lönnrot was an absolute genius. In my opinion the greates Finn. A child of his time so to speak. But one needs to understand of course, Kalevala is still but a surface. Keep up with a good work!

[@ilesalmo7724]

I've been wondering if any oral-poet, who learned the poems pre-Kalevala, has been recorded on vinyl. The timeline of the invention could work, but I'm not sure when vinyls came to Finland.

[@Tervaharja]

In many parts of Karelia pagan beliefs lived side by side with orthodox christianity and both were part of the peoples lives for many hundreds of years. Actually it would be weird not to hear that influence in Kalevala and that is our heritage also. As for using Kalevala for speaking about our ancient pantheon etc. You are right, it cannot be used like that and great part of our great history and believes are lost, for good. That is fine with me, I love my heritage orthodox and pagan, that is to love nature and to be present for the magic that is this life. Fine work you are doing mate, much love to you and harmony for your whole family.

[@TheTsalop]

This is will be really interesting series... There is silhouette animation from 1976 but also a rather liberal take on it in a form of TV-series called "Rauta-aika" from 80's that is apparently subbed in English.

[@Lupupu]

Oh, I remember seeing that silhuette animation on the telly! It was so beautiful! It's only 8 minutes long according to IMDB. "Rauta-aika" seems to be on Yle Areena at the moment, so Finns at least can check it out.

[@TheTsalop]

@@Lupupu Yeah, it is quite often on display there... Also you can find the DVD box from nearly all hypermarkets (at least you could last year :D )

[@Seer_Of_The_Woodlands]

Great video, 10/10 may Väinämöinen lead you to truth and wisdom. you son of Ireland. Mahtava video, 10/10 Väinämöinen sinut totuuteen ja viisauteen johtakoon. sinä Irlannin poika. I'm looking forward to the next videos, have a good day or night. Odotan innolla tulevia videoita, hyvää päivää ta yötä.

[@IrishinFinland]

kiitos / go raibh maith agat

[@sheribeecham1259]

There was a movie made of the Kalevala, it was called Sampo 1959. Really good movie too, check it out sometime if you can. Hedningarna put it to the tune of their song, "Tuuli" (wind).

[@toms5996]

First off as I'm one minute to the video - I love that you include and separate Carelian culture as its own entity - my grandparents were from Karjala - but you might guess what happened, the reality was even darker. After seeing the whole video, I tend to agree with you on most points what comes to Kalevala (Finland's National Epoc). It's a bit like the bible, one has to understand when it was written, how and the purposes it was 'used'. I feel distinctly that 'Kalevala' is Eastern Finnish - as I am partly Carelian and Eastern Finnish originally. The poems speak to me and I can feel the stories. I don't think it represents the western Finland at all let alone Lapland. But like with other 'stories', the source, authencity or even facts behind a mammoth of a story like 'Kalevala' - are they even important? I don't know. What I do know is that it represent the soul of Finnish people. EDIT: your idea of making 'Kalevala' to an animated series is absolutely great. Kalevala has it all - it's like 'Geme of Thrones' with steroids lol What comes to Game of Thrones or Netflix' 'Bone and Shadow' - I'm ok with the writers basically re-telling complete chapters from Kalevala - when watching these shows I find it disturbing unfortunately. But for some brave Hollywood writer coming from their strike or a Finnish writer - there is a story to tell. A story with more love and infinitely more death and heart-ache than 100 sessions of GoT could contain.

[@lottaraatikainen3942]

An interesting point professor Leena Siikala mentioned when she gave "Kalevalainen kansanrunous" lectures back when I was in university is that in Kalevala there is no such thing as a happy love story. She pointed out that according to Lönnrot's Kalevala the only women a man can trust are his mother and his sister. In marriage or other such relationship between a man and a woman no happiness can be found.

[@Joni_Tarvainen]

I have hundred year old Kalevala in my bookshelf right next to Bible, Mormor's holy book, Sturlusson's Saga's, Black bible and soon there should be Quran as well. To me Kalevala has always been the overall story with some obvious romanticizing much like in other theistic works. I was raised as pagan to give all glory to the nature while screaming "UKKO PERKELE!" to the thunder like a maniac as a command for the storm to go away, to respect entities like dwarf and Metsänpeitto etc. but Kalevala were never any holy text to us. It was always just a polished story with our gods exiting in the said work. Kalevala is a damn masterpiece, I mean imagine creating a written language while having it in theistic epic format where the wizards battle rap's each other to the point where one is about to drown in a swamp. Sounds much cooler than Christianity to be honest 😂

[@flyfin108]

you dont give full glory to storm trying to command it away, enjoy it as the nature does, stronger the better

[@JuliaBlack89]

In fact, there is an animated series of Kalevala stories. I know this because I watched it when I was in elementary school. I don't know where to find it, but it does exist.

[@einar6229]

An animated series would be brilliant, i think the only film style that could fit Kalevala, would have to be something like Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings epics, in that style. PS. I believe Tolkien actually bassed the elves and elvish language, on Finns and Finnish language.

[@Anttimation]

I'm going to beef up the series on my channel... Mostly on my own time and (lack of) money, but that's better than no series at all.

[@hanbill]

@@Anttimation lacking of money is an unfortunate weight on shoulders

[@einar6229]

@@hanbill As i said, an animated series would be brilliant, i grew up with the 1978 animated version, so i know it well, it's wonderful. I was merely saying that the only way it could be "film worthy" woukd be if it were in lotr epic style... Also without any modern politically correct nonsense

[@einar6229]

@@Anttimation i shall check out your channel this evening, sir, it looks good.

[@hanbill]

@@einar6229 yup yup, agreed

[@punkkcosmo8814]

yayy baltic mythology as a lithuanian i cannot wait

[@magnaritus5607]

Julius Krohn in 1887 wrote some lectures about finnish pagan traditions and rituals with illustrations. Suomensuvun pakanallinen jumalanpalvelus

[@IrishinFinland]

Excellent thank you!

[@Top_One]

What would you accept to be the actual Finnish creation myth? Assuming that there were no real eggs from where the earth, moon, stars, and sun were formed, the story would've started from somewhere, told and changed numerous times before being written down. Which one of all those versions is the real myth? To me the Lönnrot's version is as good as any other.

[@IrishinFinland]

That's a very good point! It is as good as any other!

[@danielmalinen6337]

What the Finnic runes about the creation have usually in common is that they have a bird that lays eggs, but then the eggs break and a blacksmith is called to assemble the pieces with an iron rake and he forges a cover on the sky from them. Usually the bird and the nesting place change, for example the bird can be a swallow, a mallard, a goldeneye, a pochard, or an eagle and the nesting place is for example a ship's mast, a reed island, a willow bush or Väinämöinen's knee. And if the nesting place is Väinämöinen's knee, then the creation of the world follows scenario where that the Väinö's younger brother Joutamoinen has shot Väinämöinen and Väinö is left floating on the sea. In some runes, the creation of the world is the result of Ilmarinen's attempt to marry a maiden in the flames of the furnace, who gives difficult feats to perform, such as forging the sky without forging marks, shooting stars into the sky without hands and murdering his previous wife and family. SKVR's archive has an interesting and extensive collection of different creation runes, and some of them can be found online. But Ilmatar, which becomes Veenemonen, is Elias Lönnrot's own invention. I also recommend Anna-Leena Siikala's book Itämerensuomalainen Mytologia.

[@jd89]

I don't think there needs to be any "actual" version of any myth, and trying to pick one over the other as the canonical one is a fool's errand. Every person probably understood these things a little bit differently back then, even if things were roughly the same. Then of course time, place and contact with other people affected things too. We can clearly see different layers that have formed through thousands of years, starting from stone age and evolving until present day. Probably oldest form of creation myth is the "diver myth", where some creature, whether it is a bird or a fish is diving into the primordial sea (or as it is called: Sara) and fetching earth to form the first land mass. Later on the egg myth came and in some cases mixed with the diver myth. IMO, every version of these myths is equally valid. Even if you personally go and pick and mix elements of those and create you own version of it.

[@TheBandito85]

I dont know has somebody pointed it out that there is two live action Kalevala movies in Finland and a movie called Jade Warrior (Jadesoturi).

[@AutioKanava]

Don Rosa made a special Donald Duck comic book The Quest for Kalevala. Very cool graphics 👍

[@ItsAweeb]

Soo I'm not sure if you're aware of this but skvr keeps an archives holding a quite a collection of Kalevala metered poems that are not found in the actual Kalevala. Lönnrot was the guy who contributed a lot to Kalevala, but he was in no way the only one who collected them! Also you can check Mikael Agricola's Works as well he did keep lists of Finnish deities the list is not comprehensive and there are parts he is unsure of but it can work as source.

[@IrishinFinland]

Yeah I've been looking at them a little over the last few weeks, but haven't properly gone through them 🤟🏻

[@albertito77]

A question, do we have Lonrots original transcriptions? Do we have his source materials with which to compare the finished "Finish" product of the Kalevala?

[@Aldanil]

Mythologia Fennica is must read If you Are interested in Finnish mythology.

[@IrishinFinland]

Yeah got that! 🤟🏻

[@ollimakkonen1722]

There actually have been two animated adaptations of Kalevala as far as I know of. Riitta Nelimarkka's animated series Sammon tarina from 70s and Taruja pohjolan jumalista anthology series from the 90s, which also adapted Fenno-Ugric and Scandinavian myths. But I don't think neither are available anywhere. There are two different graphic novel adaptations though, which are propably still on sale.

[@stuartharris5527]

On the origin myth, it's very close to reality. The goddess is lying in the sea and her knee rises above the water. That's not what happened. She was lying in a lake and the lake level fell down to sea level, a drop of 20m, and her knee rose above the water level. The lake is called Baltic Ice Lake. It was really happened. He knee was an island. To see the island, raise relative sea level 65 m. An island appears, 15 km from the mainland.

[@viljanov]

Good point. But as so many comments already state, there's a real bounty of old Finnish folk poetry in SKVR archives. The questions arising about the true mythical structures of the epic are valid, but let's remember, even the ancient Greeks had overlapping, constantly changing, developing mythical systems - there likely was no one canonic version as even the Olympic order was very varied, with so much local variation. The Abrahamic religions were the first "portable" faiths, completely codified and totally removed from local context.

[@osk9013]

The stories come from somewhere so I bet (!) that much of the old mythology has passed into oral poetry collected by Lönnroth. (I was thinking what to suggest as a subject to you but only name popped into my mind is Mika Waltari :( Rereading his Sinuhe again.)

[@IrishinFinland]

Thank you for this I'll check him out!

[@vickis.9363]

Check out Bock Saga.

[@cristinalindagiuliaseghett2346]

I read the Kalevala in high school. I knew that is a product of XIX century (like French one “the songs of Ossian”) but I also know that we are obsessed with “the original one”. I try to explain: mythology is a living thing and even in ancient times people made changes in the myth. I’m Italian and the majority of my country mythology is written but this fact just can show us there was a very important difference in classical mythology during the centuries: Republican period: born in the early years of Rome's history, it clearly distinguished itself from the Etruscan and Greek tradition, especially with regard to the methods of rites. Classical Imperial Period: Often very literary, consists of extensive adoptions of Greek and Etruscan mythology Late imperial period: consists of the assumption of many divinities of oriental origin, including the Persian Mithras, syncretized in the cult of Sol Invictus. That’s why I think it’s normal that in the Kalevala the Christian religion is present.

[@michaelmj1964]

It’s a very interesting book for non-Finnish readers, and probably the only exposure we get to Finnish mythology. Canto 50 seems very out of place, but the overall narrative structure is great!

[@stuartharris5527]

A group of us have discovered a direct connection between Kalevala and Greek mythology. Just your cup of tea. Here they are Ilmarinen = Dardanus!!!! Väinämöinen = Iason Lokka = Electra Ukko = Corythus Anni = Harmonia Louhi = Leucippe Princess of Pohjola = Bateia Young Master of Pohjola = Teucer Mistress if Pohjola = Idaea Master of Pohjola = Scamander Saamopaka = Samothraki

[@vickis.9363]

Have you heard the Bock Saga?

[@patrickuotinen]

Have you read Kanteletar? It's also gathered by Lönnrot, and considered as the "sister" of Kalevala. I think he put there the poems that didn't fit into the storyline of Kalevala.

[@JokelNiina]

Not sure if they are in english but there are several books on finnish mythology. Here are some authors: Klemettinen, Pasi Haavio, Martti Harva, Uno and Pulkkinen, Risto.

[@brigidwell]

I think the key is seeing the Kalevala for what it is! The Bible in Christianity has a somewhat similar origin. Genesis, Exodus etc. used to be a bunch of random separate stories, and at some point, the fragments were strung together with a chronology and genealogy to create a strong throughline and identity (which is why some of the early stories seem to imply that the earth is already heavily populated).

[@xjuhox]

Perhaps the old stories were totally uncompatible: some had genesis, some had not; some delt with the end of times, some did not. The greatest common factor can be a good principle ^^

[@christianheikkonen]

When trying to find the real creation myth, I recommend looking up how the myth is told and written in Eastern Finnic tribes like Karelia or Vepsians. Or even Udmurts, Maris and Komis. I recommend reading Anssi Alhonen’s Notes on the Finnish tradition. That’s pretty much the real deal.

[@JanHellqvist]

I highly recommend Koirien Kalevala, by Mauri Kunnas....Dog's Kalevala....but in Finnish. The English translation just doesn't work that well.

[@Morhgoz]

Good points me mate!

[@mattik2521]

The end does signal the coming of Christ (a boy whose virgin mother is inseminated by the berries in the wood.) But Väinämöinen (very interestingly, for Lönnrot to have written) promises to come back when he is needed again. Why would he have written something that, quite clearly, says that the "new way" will not be working for long, and when it stops working, he will forgive his people and return to their aid?

[@vetehinen8097]

I believe that every fiction made hunreds or thousands of years ago are as important as stories made nowdays. If Lönnrot made up his own stories they are as real as the original iron age ones. I don't believe in some kind of true age where everything was more significant than nowdays. Time goes on and tales and peoples change. So what i'm saying is that for me the changes made by Lönnrot don't matter.

[@mrpotatoguy1]

Why did you delete your Eurovision video? Was looking forward to that :(

[@IrishinFinland]

I didn't delete! It got taken down because of copyright strike 😫😫 because of eurovision video I played at start

[@mrpotatoguy1]

@@IrishinFinland Oh no! Sorry to hear that

[@FINBoggit]

Did you know that temple of Lemminkäinen (Lemminkäisen temppeli) Is located in Sipoo, near Helsinki? It can be found on Google as well and now when it's mentioned, do you know a person called Ior Bock? Heh, you should check that one out, groovy stuff.

[@FINBoggit]

Also, Tolkien was inspired of Kalevala and got ideas for lord of the rings from it. The elvish language is somewhat based on Finnish language and the first book he wrote was The Story of Kullervo.

[@IrishinFinland]

Ior Bock is a groovy fella indeed 🤣

[@varjovirta3085]

Ior bock isn't finnish , he was cult -leader fenno-swede. You mispresent stuff even more. More respect to original Karelian runic singers so F** off with that crap

[@FINBoggit]

@@IrishinFinland I'm glad you already know about him 😅😂

[@Draugo]

This situation is not really any different from any other epic based on oral tradition. For example Illiad and Odyssey as well as Roman myths have the exact same problem. The main difference to Roman myths is that we have many accounts instead of one main one which gives us a chance to see how things changed over time and what were the differences.

[@TimoYlhainen]

You are right. It is a little bit of a problem.

[@karihamalainen9622]

Sorry I am unable to suply any information about Viennas-Karelia culture.

[@IrishinFinland]

Aha! I see what you did there! 😆

[@kylestephens4133]

Homer probably did the exact same thing; merged many pieces into one, merging characters, eliminating others, etc.

[@vickis.9363]

What are your opinions on the Bock Saga?

[@stenquists1]

Aw man, I was literally hunting for a Non Christian resurrection myth for a project and was going to use Lemminkainen and the Swan of Tuonela because I listen to a lot of Sibelius. Do you know of a more original version of that myth? I don't really know how to research this stuff.

[@stefanholmstrom1968]

Lönnrot also collected many naughty sex/fertility poems, because... well, all countries have a lot of those, too. They can be found, as already mentioned here, in the electronic archives of SKVR. It's hard to grasp how much material he actually collected and how much work he had to do when he wrote the Kalevala. When it comes to the influence of Christianity in Kalevala, I agree, but then what is "Christian"? it is no wonder Christianity had infuenced the stories throughout centuries, but on the other hand the same basic stories can be found in most religions. It's more like there are some fundamental rudimental stories, stories that have been copied and adapted in all epic poetry and religions.

[@stefanholmstrom1968]

The way Kalevala was described in school, though, was so simple and stupid. Grr! I understand there is a certain limited amount of time for everything, like the national epos, but come on... it's like "give the kids the simple version, don't make them think by themselves". I have worked as a teacher in folk high school and once read a sign on a reaaly good colleague's wall: "Education is not providing safe and simple stories, instead it is about making students uncomfortable - this will make them question what they hear and see".

[@scherryvalentine9673]

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, I am new to Kalevala. I am studying the material for a fourth grade class in Texas that I will teach next year. My basic understanding is that the end of the epic is when the idea of a new God will come, hence the coming Christ. Is this somewhat correct?

[@stefanholmstrom68]

@@scherryvalentine9673 That is how it often is interpreted. Marjatta (Mary) is a virgin but gives birth to a boy. The boy talks like an adult (a parallell to Jesus as a kid, in the temple, making the priests amazed, maybe). The boy is made the king of Carelia and the wise man Väinämöinen leaves, as do some other mythological creatures. Now we have the new king ("god") but with a twist: the old guy says he will return. By the way, Väinämöinen's mother was also a virgin when he was conceived. There are different versions in folklore about the boy and Väinämöinen, but there was always the basic conflict: the new against the old.

[@scherryvalentine9673]

@@stefanholmstrom68 In my third grade class, we studied the Old Testament. Next year Kalevala and Norse Myths. I can’t help but compare the essence and mood of Kalevala to Old Testament stories. They are both archetypal creation stories that develop over time into civilizations that begin to cry out for a messiah. I am a a Waldorf teacher so we loop with our class from grade 1-8.

[@stefanholmstrom68]

​@@scherryvalentine9673 I wish I as a kid had had the possibility in school to learn more about these topics :) What you teach sounds really important, also the way it is done, as I think there's a lot to learn from the Steiner method (as we usually call Waldorf education here)

[@moonliteX]

he was a young guy that lived relatively quite recently that just wanted to make a coherent book of poems about old folklore and he interviewed some grannys before the story was lost. it´s nothing serious XD

[@IrishinFinland]

Pretty much yeah! 😆 also wanted to write something in Finnish so he could be accepted amongst his peers 🤷🏼‍♂️😆

[@moonliteX]

@@IrishinFinland it's not like the bible is any better ..

[@ronnyrudeboy7461]

Remember also check movie Sampo which made with USSR. Very good Kalevala story in fantasy way. Elonet show it free. I don´t see problem in Kalevala even he was Christian. When has hi(story) writers been pagans? I mean don´t have heard any problem with Kalevala´s credibility before.

[@N_0968]

Have you read Kalevipoeg?

[@IrishinFinland]

Yes I have!

[@N_0968]

@@IrishinFinland Awesome!

[@qwineth]

Oh, Kalevala - it was so forced down our throats at school... And so Eastern Finnish sounding to boot. I think Kanteletar basically resolves your problem. But anyway, two weird mythologies, Finnic and Christian surely don't spoil each other. The only thing I will say for Kalevala and its metre is that you really can speak it in the rhythm of Finnish, you don't need to draw extra breaths at all.

[@jeplica7011]

I really think ive been trapped in this story, for who knows how long, longer than this life. A cant make stupid mistakes, i know theres things you can unwittingly participate in or sense that changes things for me at least, and most importantly i don't want to be trapped, reincarnated, basically lose control over my freewill

[@jeplica7011]

So i have a question about the sources of information and adding the sources when sharing information. And the what are the actual differences between sources and not. And what makes something a credible source or not, and interaction with sourced material and non on as many dimensions and perspectives. Please, because I've always been a terrible student and gatekept out of the know. And i had to come in through the out door after going around my ass to get to my elbow

[@VmKobudo]

Eka. Because this is first comment and also last in row.

[@Tihi92]

You were talkimg so much about how much you love Kalevala, that I didn't understand what your problem with it is.

[@IrishinFinland]

Really? Well there is always one I guess, the fact that people use it as the complete and final source....

[@Tihi92]

@@IrishinFinland Oh, alright. I get what you mean now. I'm currently listening to an audio version of Kalevala on Audible, and unfortunately, I can't recommend it. The narrator reads everything in such an epic voice that it's hard to focus and becomes tireing to listen to quite fast. I might give it a read someday myself.

[@tomimanty4609]

There is children versio in animated format.

[@michaelmichelsson]

creation myth by the Kalevala is almost identical, the myth created by the Vikings is the world tree, etc... but I wouldn't stress about Elias löntroot's interpretations. now you have to remember that no one has interviewed him about Kalevala. today's scientists' guesses are just assumptions without facts, the fact is that lönroot wrote the Kalevala and it is what it is.

[@talvetar3385]

It is still fact that that he gathered it together. Same way is the Bible done btw.

[@IrishinFinland]

That's all well and good, but that means things will be left out, and things created purposely for the "narrative"

[@SiiriCressey]

Didn't someone make a Kalevala comic book?

[@IrishinFinland]

There has been a good few yeah! I'm gonna get that sci-fi kalevala and see what that is about!

[@SiiriCressey]

@@IrishinFinland O, neat! I only heard of the one. It's in Finnish. Are there ones in English?

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

Mostly accurate is more than good enough.

[@vesarintamaki2712]

Muinaissuomalainen historiamme .. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2nYaHyMabJ6ndU Suomen salattu historia .. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoSkaaaNgcZobtE

[@stasacab]

I have never read it translated. The Finnish version is written in such outdated language that I cannot understand it half the time.

[@PauliOjala-lu1dx]

Kalevala day. 12 sons of Kaleva, three reached ancient Finland. 12 judge stones in the old pennic fennic villages also for wives. High calling of wives vis-a-vis Proverbs 31. Kveenit Kainuu kvinna queens the vikings and Tacitus laughed. Suomi Seem Shem saame Saimaa shamaani mythological legacy. Sauna at saturdays, sapatti Sabbath. Megalith stones via Arzareth plains of Siberia, druid refers to "oaks" where the bones of patriarcs and matriarchs wait sequencing at Mamre. Paternal Y chromosome & maternal mitochondrial DNA. Hebrew Finnish affinity: Em - emo, emä emäntä, äiti. Ab - appi, father of wife Chaverim- kaveri, haveri. Tippa - tippa. Pissa - pissa. Ovi, avata. Jalan. Car - karja. Loo nirhaa - äLä murhaa thou shall not murder. Puoch - puhua. Nuoch - nuokkua, nukkua. Perse. Cherpah. Ruoch - ruoka/henki. Map of USA resembles a whale. Sign of Jonah for the evil generation that demolishes marriagehood. Cetos, not iktys. Decapoli, 10 heathen mother cities. Scythapolis at the west bank of Jordan where Jeshua worked as naggare nikkari plough smith for the invaders. Manly ex drunk Andreas Antero Vipunen from beth-Araba Qumran og Zadokite Temple priests trained by Jouchanan Joukahainen and sent by Magister Jeshua to Scythia Scotland and Magog Ukraine but wandered up to kake Ladoga, Antreas town and contemporary Arkangel arch angel. Both keep the cross of Andrew as heraldic symbol. Antero Vipunen vipuristi key figure in Kalevala. Big Oak Babeltower: Strong central government was a curse to pen Finns. Pen, Pun the son of Issaschar grandson of Job. Only the names of the 3 daughters of old Job are mentioned, not 7 sons Rx-100 LPA S1P for radiation poisoning www.biokemia.fi/Bushism_sins_of_the_fathers.htm www.dinoglyphs.fi 359 number of Shin Thet Nuun 25.12. 359. Day of the year. Saturnalia Ukon & Raunin maljat Mithras. Jeshua was born 9 months after the darkest day. www.biokemia.fi/Kalevala.html www.biokemia.fi/Vainamoisen_veneenveistosta.htm www.biokemia.fi/Dinosauruslegendat.htm kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIKmn2eoZ7eJers kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoiqZGWelpxqrqs kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnumpa1np72deqs kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH-lkqtvbdVkeJI kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWaaenevdr5kidk kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKeyfX2rjN-KoJI kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZC8l5mljb2Nqbc kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5O9pmSfgLp2hLs kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYaxendja8lle7c kzbin.info/www/bejne/hn-6f2etacucZpI kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3vWhKGnf6qrrtE www.biokemia.fi/Tieteenluovutus.html www.biokemia.fi/Valitsensiisolen-SisuChutspa.pdf (300 sivun nettikirja) www.biokemia.fi/Efraim.html www.dinoglyphs.fi www.biokemia.fi/Lokeronvaltaajat.htm www.biokemia.fi/Flintstones.htm www.biokemia.fi/rakennelmat.htm www.biokemia.fi/Job.htm www.biokemia.fi/vedenpaisumus.htm www.biokemia.fi/Gigantismi.htm

[@Mnnvint]

It's anachronistic to think of Lönnrot's Christianity as a problem, obfuscating the "true" pagan myths, because paganism doesn't work that way. Paganism is syncretistic, and by the time the earliest versions of these poems were composed, Christianity had been around for maybe 1000 years. That's a LOT of time for thoughts and ideas to seep from the middle east and Europe. If anything, it was more of a problem that Lönnrot removed obvious Christian influences. It made the old Finns seem a lot less Christian-influenced than they probably were. But it's only a problem if you want to believe in some sort of "pure" paganism, which is a contradiction in terms.

[@cayenigma]

There is an animated series, you used images of it in this video; kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKizlmaihbuWkKc or did you mean like movie type, not info films?

[@IrishinFinland]

Yes I know about this, I'm in constant contact with Antti!

[@scanpolar]

I am native Finnish , automatically my mind takes out of Kalevala the Christian crosses and pope's propaganda .

[@lynxoffinland]

Lönnrot was influenced by the demand of a national epic of the time. Every country had one, so finnish politics wanted one. And they wanted it to reflect the ancient Greek mythologies - because those are great examples of classic drama that will live for a long time. So the Kalevala is heavily influenced by political influense, aswell as mythology fro mother parts. I personally do not think that you should make videos about finnish mythology, because it is not a consept to begin with - Finland did not exist befroe 1800's. That was when the language was fored from tribal languages, and mytohlogies were forged from tribal mythologies. What was forged, is in nature artificial - although it is affected by the source. I think a better way to aproach the subject is to travel arooudn Finland and handle these stories as individual stories, the way they are told in different places. Generalizing things too much seem artificial, and misleading.