The Problem with House of the Dragon's White Walker Vision & the Game of Thrones Cinematic Universe

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

For one it literally didn't take a Targaryen uniting the whole realm or even most of it to save Westeros from the White Walkers. A teenage girl with magic jumping powers managed to pull it off.

[@Longshanks1690]

@@SuperPal-tr3go That’s the weirdest part about S2’s prophecies. In S1, we can understand that Aegon’s interpretation was wrong as he placed himself into the story as the main character and every Targaryen after him will do the same to cover themselves in glory, fitting GRRM’s theme of misinterpreting prophecies. But S2 is framing them as 100% true and accurate, and framing Daemon as wise and noble for heeding them since they’re showing him the truth… but we saw the future. We know how things will end up, and we know that the Targaryen dynasty is completely pointless as whether you have one crown or seven, all you need is that one lucky kill shot and they all die. 😂 It’s like they K I N D A F O R G O T we all know how S8 went down and are still acting like it’s a plausible mystery when we know that’s not the case.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

@@Longshanks1690 Yeah it darkly comedic as it's a prophecy that literally ends with the Targs being rendered extinct and their legacy being one of madness. Honestly all this would make way more sense if all the visions are the product of the Children of the Forest manipulating humanity for their own gain with "prophecies."

[@CallousCarter]

They wouldn't get across the wall without Dany handing over a dragon to Olympic javeliner Nights King.

[@awesomo925]

Yeah, in the show. In the books, it could easily be different, but I guess everyone's given up hope on a Dream of Spring.

[@juneack5848]

Who needs tits and dragon when you have daggers and prophecies?

[@MetalheadSapling]

The White Walkers in Dunk & Egg is the kind of awful I couldn't comprehend before you mentioned it.

[@Davidfvr]

Hahaha same here, didn't even cross my mind as a possibility, now I'm punching a wall

[@Longshanks1690]

Dunk only stays Egg’s loyal friend because he was given a vision telling him he has to be at Summerhall.

[@Davidfvr]

​@@Longshanks1690 lol, Daeron the drunken tell him about a vision of Arya (?)

[@Longshanks1690]

@@Davidfvr Omg Daeron is a dreamer, that’s exactly what’s going to happen, he’s going to have visions about Dunk and that’s going to guide his actions towards helping him 🥲😭

[@Godzilla00X]

​@Longshanks1690 made me laugh, that would be so bad

[@dantesinfernape]

The dagger retcon is so bad too. You're telling me the valyrian steel dagger passed down from Aegon the conqueror to all subsequent kings was unknown to Cat and Ned after the attempt on Bran's life with it? They'd recognize a weapon like that immediately and see through Littkefinger's lies.

[@romewilliams3526]

I still think the end of the series is Bran narrating this whole show as a vision to Samwell as an old man.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

=/

[@1slummzzs]

🤣😂🤣😂😂😂🤣. Boy o boy

[@samf.s.7731]

Can we get Samantha Tarly on this show instead of more prophecy BS? Please 🥺🥺 🙏

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

@@samf.s.7731 She doesn't really appear until later on

[@GodKingReiss]

“The Prince That was Promised… It is D… Dae… Dae… urrrgh-“ Aegon IV’s dying words

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

I doubt anybody beyond Rhaenyra will know of it. Rhaenyra will try to tell Aegon II and he'll not listen and wipe her out anyway

[@sdpearshaped831]

OH NO THIS COULD ACTUALLY BE IT. OH GOD. Blackfyre Rebellions are an accident because Aegon IV didn't finish his dying sentence.

[@woketree21]

"The Blackfyre Rebellion was built on a lie"

[@nont18411]

@@sdpearshaped831 Aegon kinda forgot to finish his sentence

[@made-line7627]

-_-​ @@sdpearshaped831

[@jdh5224]

This prophecy gives almost every character no agency.

[@pyramidion5911]

Not true at all. The prophecies and visions are often misleading characters with free will into thinking they are on a set course.

[@micow9951]

That is untrue, they have agency just like Melisandre did the prophecy may mislead them or they might just use it as an excuse to grasp for power but they are making the choices Mel chose to burn Shereen and all those unbelievers because she thought stannis was the prince the prophecy didn't take her agency it's still her and stannis's fault Same here, rhaenyra is waging war because of the prophecy, she's anxious about a threat that's not coming for a 150 years thinking it's her duty ironically by not surrending to Aegon most dragons will die in the war and thus to realm will face the winter without dragons ( but dany's miracle will save the day and no thanks to the blacks or greens ) Rhaegar's obsession and misunderstanding of prophecy led to the fall of the dynasty leaving no Targaryen on the throne These characters have choices, they're not well educated choices but still, they choose to interpret the prophecy most of the time in a self serving way due to ego or fear and end up doing terrible things, they are slaves to prophecy yes but they choose to be so

[@doctorajaguar]

​@@micow9951agreed!

[@b1bbscraz3y]

what this commenter means by "no agency" is that they wanted someone like Daemon to come to the conclusion that Rhaenyra should be the one to rule and not Daemon himself on his own, instead of needing to see a vision to come to that conclusion. we wanted Daemon to actually change his mind under his own power and will and accept that he should support Rhaenyra instead of himself, rather than needing to touch a weirwood tree and see a vision of the future to tell him that

[@SplendidFactor]

"Prophecy will bite your prick off every time. Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords? The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons." - Marwyn the Mage, Archmaester of the Citadel to Samwell Tarly

[@eugeneimbangyorteza]

Helaena will end up saying "things we do for love" in the next hallucination

[@X-Bones]

Alys and Rhaenys are there to explain the subtext of the story to the audience because the writers think we’re all stupid.

[@Domefossil]

The one time where it makes sense to do the GoT White Walker reference is in LATER Dunk and Egg, when the man himself Bloodraven shows up, or even later, when they burn in Summerhall (probably as an attempted blood sacrifice to hatch dragons to vanquish the Others). But they'll probably STILL take it too far and make it nonsensical and hamfisted.

[@thomasvrielink299]

You just know Egg is going to have the Dagger, and whenever Dunk and Egg are in trouble, instead of debating whether to use "The Boot" they'll debate whether to use "The Dagger" to prove who Egg is...

[@pirukiddingme1908]

Sorry carmine but if they ever get to a Robert’s rebellion show, they kind of have to have rhaegar be obsessed with these similar visions bc we already know he’s gonna be prophecy focused

[@officerdank4644]

His is valid though tbf, as the next generation (his son) face the long night

[@LarthV]

@@officerdank4644 Does not matter, since it is hindsight. He knew as much as anybody before _when_ it comes...

[@samf.s.7731]

This is the one show where a main character's obsession with prophecy lead to their downfall. The only one .. And now they've used this sh!t everywhere, it's gonna become so redundant and insignificant when they do it. Despite being the actual motivation for the main character. Fuq

[@alexmartin3143]

Thats Rhaegar right at the time of the walkers emergence. We shouldn’t be dealing with it hundreds of years earlier.

[@pirukiddingme1908]

@@samf.s.7731 exactly, now they’ve shoved prophecies into everybody else’s stories since the doom of Valyria, presumably without them ending poorly because of said prophecies, they’ve cheapened the real message of grrm’s work. That prophecies don’t trump free will, and people who desperately try to follow them, Egg, Rhaegar, Cersei, possibly Stannis if twow ever drops, end up ruining things because of them

[@robertfaucher3750]

The only way I can see this being good in hindsight is if when Daemon chooses to fight Aemond, it is against Alys' and the trees wishes. A sort of "fuck it I CHOOSE my destiny" type deal and the weirwoods actually want Daemon to rule with Rhaenyra and him dying causes Rhaenyra to fall, that'd be interesting. Especially since he'll need a reason for the Battle above the Gods Eye now since Nettles has been deleted

[@carlrood4457]

One of the problems is that Martin's writing is full of doubt regarding prophecy and how much a person's interpretation can affect that. It's like how Melisandre insists Stannis is The Prince That Was Promised.

[@mostlytoasty801]

I’m leaning more and more into Preston’s “prophecy is a trick to get people to unalive themselves” theory. Deamon still has agency, he’s just being tricked…

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

hmm

[@iron_captain]

@mostlytoasty801 There is no reason why he believes into this vision.

[@reptarsass7248]

The dagger is probably just gonna be explained by time traveling Bran. Whatever he was doing at the weirwood tree in season 8 will be explained as him going back in time and manipulating events through out history to get the dagger into Arya’s hands during the long night. Bran/Bloodraven is responsible for the Targaryen obsession with prophecy and feelings of self importance, everyone does indeed have free will and agency however they are CHOOSING to believe in the prophecy and that is the Targaryen’s greatest fault leading to the near downfall of their house but ultimately coming out victorious during the Long Night. The work Bran had done was sloppy and didn’t ultimately read clear for most Targaryen’s which lead to greater feelings of Targaryen superiority and could explain Daemon’s final decision to bend the knee to Rhaenyra. He has free will because he is now choosing to believe these prophecies are divine when we the audience know they are not.

[@norbix-od7rt]

dude the harrenhal turney play will have the damn dagger

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

LMAO

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

Completely agree with you Carmine, Alys is a Sara self insert. I don't understand all the compliments toward this character. Not to mention in my humble opinion Daemon did not need to change. He didn't need to go to this reeducation camp to be a good boy. The issue was that Daemon was reckless not just cause of a power thing but because Rhaenyra was undecisive. That is why her council was also beside themselves. The other side was doing strategies but they were doing next to nothing. If Rhaenyra, Daemon and the Council would have come up with a battle plan together with different strategies, everything would have fine. But she was thinking of her own personal issues instead of thinking about the big picture.

[@samf.s.7731]

My question is, how is this woman going to let Aemond have sex with her if she doesn't have a very self motivated agenda? Really... Unless they intend to do an SA scene in which case I WILL DROP THE SHOW.

[@King_Mac80]

"If every decision is made for you then why do anything" don't you think this complaint is hypocritical if you also complained about Arya killing the Night King. You can't complain that Jon should've been the one to kill the Night King and then be upset about someone else doing something because of prophecy.

[@kirax7293]

I think at this point it is clear that the prophecy is supposed to be what drives the Targaryens. It is at the core of all Targ behaviors, how they feel they're better than everyone else and needs to be the one in charge and deserve to rule, even after the dragons are gone. Dance is because of the prophecy, summerhall is because of prophecy, and Rhaegar acted on the base of the prophecy. We understand that the prophecy sucks because of how season 8 ended, but that doesn't mean that's not how GRRM set it up. And I think the sooner we realize it is integral to the theme of the Targs the easier it will be for us to move past it. There's no going another way - the main series's bad ending is rippling throughout the entire franchise.

[@MourningCoffeeMusic]

This is how Star Wars fans felt since the prequels. There’s some redeeming factors, but not without sacrificing lore/character growth.

[@UZiBLASTER7]

Ok but Daeron in D&E is gonna definitely tell Dunk “I dreamed of you. You must protect Egg because from him comes the prince who was promised. I also dreamed of a cold from the north and etc”

[@guichogf5636]

I don't need to be reminded that the huge threat of the White Walkers presented in the very first scene of GOT ended up going nowhere. They should have kept the story separate from GOT, because none of GOT has happened yet. Seems to me that HBO is just trying to justify what they did in GOT season 8 and convince us that it all fits, when it doesn't. It just dredges up the things that destroyed GOT, HOTD has a story to tell, they should have just focused on that, not running damage control for the show they ruined. Knowing how the big bad white walkers end, knowing it has nothing to do with Targaryens just makes the Aegon prophecy they invented seem silly and a lame attempt to defend GOT. The only other reason for Daemon's visions was that they knew Matt Smith was a fan favorite and they wanted to give him something to do. Just goes to show when you insert things into a story only to satisfy non story reasons you damage the story you are supposed to be telling.

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

Not the better angel in the man, but a literal god in the machine is what it took for him to follow her. They might as well have just given him the one scene with Viserys offering him the crown and the White Walker vision if they were just going to have that be what convinces him to kneel to her.

[@tobiverrum]

I think "prophesies" are best used when they externalize internal problems. Obviously there is a degree to which people lose autonomy. I think having visions isn't really the issue, and more so, would this character react like this, and what does the story gain by having them react like that? A prophesy in which a character learns that their children will replace overthrow them, and a central part of their character is being a mother. To a degree they lose autonomy over the story, but if you manage to show an interesting story about the internal conflict within that character as they slowly see signs in their mind of their inevitable fall can be fascinating. I think 1 reason why the Daemon walker vision doesn't really work is because they keep trying to pussyfoot around scenes where he does morally questionable actions, to make it mysterious. It started with the "prince for a day" scene which was very neat, it made him both morally ambiguous because the Daemon we had been seeing could have said it disparagingly against Viserys or melancholically, given how he tried to push Rhaenyra to reconcile with Viserys following their loss of Aemma. In either case, Daemon refusing to extrapolate on why he said it also fit in at the time with how Daemon viewed himself. He is loyal to his family, to his brother and niece, so in his mind he thinks there isn't a way that Viserys would cast blame on him or do serious harm, and at the same time because he views himself so highly, explaining himself would prob bruise his ego. In not trying to explain we can see the immense character flaws he has, the insecurities that would haunt him, Alys says he always runs away. I thought with the visions the final, "push" would have been Daemon finally facing all the times he said those things. We would see the show canon's version of events that were kept away from us. We would see the Daemon who said "an heir for a day", or how he spoke to his kids after the death of his wife, or what he told blood and cheese. It would be Daemon post Harrenhal facing who he was and realizing how much of a coward he was, he is no king, and finally understands that hes does have the capacity to act as a King. But instead they dont do that and they insert whyte walker shit. That just tells me next season to drive a wedge between them, they'll show danny burning Kings Landing and he will think its Rhaenyra or something like it, which will lead to him going back to Harrenhal.

[@mostlytoasty801]

I don’t think deamon was able to have the big vision until he sacrificed the Blackwood kid to the tree.

[@BG-kn3nt]

Oh if they had thought about this the story would have been so much better!

[@joshhoffman5233]

I love the handshake of bloodraven and dunk. And they’re like “we all know why you have to protect that squire of yours.” And everyone smirks a little cuz they, like the audience, knows about the WWs. And Egg is like “what? What are you guys talking about.” “Nothing, egg. Now go saddle the horses.” I’m cringing so hard I’m laughing

[@Longshanks1690]

*O N E* *H U N D R E D* *Y E A R S ,* *C A R M I N E ,* *O N E* *H U N D R E D* *Y E A R S ! ! ! ! !*

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

;O

[@FC-yj1wd]

A hundred years and one!

[@sdpearshaped831]

And together we're gonna run around, Egg, we're gonna... do all kinds of wonderful things, Egg. Just you and me, Egg. The White Walkers are coming, Egg... we're the only.... friends we've got, Egg! It's just Dunk and Egg. Dunk and Egg and their adventures, Egg.. DUNK AND EGG FOREVER AND FOREVER A HUNDRED YEARS Dunk and Egg..

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

@@sdpearshaped831

[@made-line7627]

Beat me to it 🤺​@@FC-yj1wd

[@TheKefelder]

I think that Daemon heard the "traitor" on the wind. That's why Alys graduated him to the vision. He heard it and he applied it to Broome. He was listening and therefore, he was ready.

[@Longshanks1690]

Arya will be shown thrown overboard in a prologue to the sequel Show and the dagger will slip out of its scabbard and get float across the sea until it arrives on a frozen shore… where Jon Snow will pick it up, tying the whole universe together once again. 😂😂😂

[@ryanrogers2224]

Jon Snow: “These violent delights have violent ends….”

[@Jonsnowcone]

With all the issues of the finale, I think we can all agree the most mishandled character detail is why tf Rhaenyra wouldnt let her maid braid her hair.

[@ryanrogers2224]

Shes not gay. Yo

[@sophiawilson8696]

Stannis's was the Last Hero

[@shahzebhasan9995]

Oh God, I just remembered that Dunk sits under a tree when he contemplates his reason for living after Baelor's death. They are totally going to make it a weirwood and give him visions of the future and the white walkers to rob him of his agency and initiative as they did with Daemon.

[@LarthV]

While I hope not, I still do not get why y'all think this takes away his agency. To take away his agency he would have to be _compelled_ to do what the prophecy says. The prophecy is just _information_ he has to take into account...

[@shahzebhasan9995]

@LarthV because said prophecy essentially says "do this or you'll die and the world will end" which is not really a compelling choice.

[@LarthV]

@@shahzebhasan9995 There are apparently people proclaiming "The end is near" on the streets all the time, and nobody takes them seriously. The end of the (real) world has been foretold how many times in history? And how many people believed it? The vision in and of itself has no more power than a bad acid trip.

[@shahzebhasan9995]

@LarthV the characters clearly believe it, hence why it affects their subsequent decisions

[@LarthV]

@@shahzebhasan9995 Oh, absolutely. But belief is - at least to me - a sign of agency. Your idea of it may be different, of course.

[@jonathangeider7022]

100 years of daggers and prophecies, Morty. 6 series. 44 seasons of daggers and prophecies.

[@OMGYasuke]

If Dunk & Egg have any visions related to white walkers. We've truly lost the plot, and I'm fully out ✌🏾

[@xZFeroxZx]

Disclaimer: I don't like the Weirwood vision - BUT... It doesn't ruin Daemon's arc and neither does it show GoT's ending imo. Daemon accepts that he wants his fantasy of being king, but in ep7 he already accepted that he doesn't want what comes with it (Scene with Viserys). He tells Broom that he's a turn cloak. He still wishes being king would be what he wants it to be, but it's not. He would've taken the opportunity of Broom if he still wanted to. The vision is not what pushes him over the egde. It only makes him understand Viserys' choice and dreams. That's why Rhaenyra then says "you sound like my father". It's not what pushes him over the edge, it only makes him realize what's happening. And the vision shows a different battle aftermath with a different dead dragon, a different Bloodraven in a different looking cave and a different looking shot of Daenerys... AND Ryan Condall said that this vision refers to book Canon when he said that this vision does not reveal Dany as Azor Ahai, because they wouldn't reveal secrets of the book Canon of future books. I hate the vision, but imo it's extremely misunderstood.

[@user-ti5cw1ug6l]

Getting outfoxed by Tully should've been what made him realize he's not cut out for the politics and should just play his part as the military man. The counter argument for the Daemon vision is that Daemon thinks dreams > dragons. 🤦

[@McCallaFilms]

That was quite simply the ugliest White Walker I have ever seen... and I don't mean that in a good way. It looked unintentionally comical, and I cannot fathom how that was kept in there...

[@gluttonousghost]

Why the show is leaning so hard into the prophecy is so perplexing. It's doing a bunch of retroactive setup for a really disappointing payoff the audience is not only already aware of, but really prefers not to be reminded of. So why keep reminding us?

[@turrican4d599]

Because HotD won't do the same fucking stupid crap, that GOT S5-8 did.

[@gluttonousghost]

I mean unless they redo the last half of GoT and create a satisfying resolution to the white walker story, Aegon's prophecy is just going to keep reminding us of the awful taste of when we collectively threw up in our mouths a little bit after witnessing Arya stab the Night King.

[@mum-your]

@@turrican4d599 it is already as bad as season 5/7, a little more crap and it will be season 8 recreated

[@iron_captain]

I love the idea of including visions but they have handled it completly wrong. The vision should drive Daemon away from Rhaenyra, causing Daemons inner struggle. It would be very powerful if he manages to defy them in the last episode. This deterministic way of prophecy and vision are indeed very boring and takes any meaning away from Daemons arc. Plus what do Alys, Helena or whoever gain from Daemon supporting Rhaenyra anyway? Very sad about that because everything else concerning Harrenhal was great (Ser Simon, Willem, Oscar).

[@iron_captain]

Would have been a great thing for Helena to do as her revenge. In the decisive vision she gets interrupted by Aemond for the same reason as in the show. And when she tries to explain that she is already doing something, she gets called crazy and people thing that she is deeply traumatised by Jaeherys death. Would even kind of fit 🩸🔥 and the theme of woman not being taken seriously.

[@ScadrianGhostblood]

The problem with showing a white walker and constantly talking about the prophecy is mainly season 8. It should be a central event in the history of the entire planet so it would make sense to mention it when magic is involved, but because season 8 is the only at the moment depiction of the events, hotd only reminds us of that trash.

[@turrican4d599]

Season 5-8 is non canon.

[@ScadrianGhostblood]

@@turrican4d599 yes and I wish people stopped making predictions for dream of spring based on season 8. I keep seeing people predicting that after the battle against the others we will immediately return to politics and fighting for the throne, when the entire point is that deciding who sits on a metal chair is less important than saving the world

[@danielhiguita5511]

Exactly, the show made irreversible damage to sequels whenever they try to reference events from GOT, seeing a white walker only brings bad memories ...

[@ScadrianGhostblood]

@@danielhiguita5511 I will burst out laughing if they reference it even in the yi ti show, though maybe it's the only thing that would even signify that it takes place in the same world. (but really what is even the point of making a yi ti show. George will maybe suggest some worldbuilding, but either way it won't matter at all if it isn't book canon)

[@pzboy47]

I think the vision would've worked much better if it was shown to Daemon after he accepted Rhaenyra as queen. Then it would be more the case that he "passed the test" of putting the realm/Targaryen dynasty before his own personal gain, which would tell Bloodraven that he was worthy of knowing the prophecy. I think that is what the showrunners were meaning to imply when Alys says that Daemon is "ready", meaning he has already internally completed his character arc and accepted Rhaenyra, but from the audience's perspective we don't see confirmation of that until after the vision, which muddles the reason for Daemon's decision.

[@kinggoldark3853]

That’s the ultimate kick to the crotch. The Blackfyre Rebellions weren’t a dynastic power struggle enabled by the worst Targaryen king to sit the throne. They were an attempt to ensure that the third shittiest episode of the shittiest season of Game of Thrones had a happy ending.

[@Leo_ofRedKeep]

Daemon was made to behave like "a toxic male" only so he could repent and bend at the end. Same as Cole. All the show does is disparaging men, over and over.

[@sdpearshaped831]

The dagger is secretly a key that can be used to unlock the power of the 14 flames that destroys Valyria. A Targaryen assassin trained as a faceless man uses the dagger as a key to unlock the volcanic force a la Rings of Power. The name of that assassin? Baby Aegon Targaryen... even though he hasn't been born yet.

[@alexmartin3143]

Right…

[@Latenivenatrix_Mcmasterae]

I just want them to keep HoTD as a HoTD show, not “the game of thrones prequel”, it’s 200 years before Game of Thrones, there is literally NO REASON to connect to GoT when there’s such a long gap. To me it feels like if Titanic had a reference to the coronavirus, like they’re two different scenarios that literally do not need to be connected

[@Dogboon-]

"Red Team Review" HotD season 2 was severely effected by the writers strike in may 2023. Filming started in April. The scripts were finished with 4-5 drafts by January.

[@JilTheReal]

I believe all of his visions and the Riverlands issues were there to break him down and set him up to be in an "open enough" mindset to accept and believe the prophecy AND actually do something about it. The Daemon who arrived in Harrenhal wouldn't have cared about what would happen 200 years down the line. Now, don't get me wrong, I hated every bit of it. I'm not trying to defend it, nor do I think this was a reasonable choice and this was the only reasoning i could come up with.

[@pyramidion5911]

That's exactly what was going on

[@watchofwallstreet935]

Wait until we find out who did the white walkers art work on dragon stone

[@wilmer4421]

Wait you are the guy on Destinys stream right? Ive only just connected the dots.

[@yvettelowe3069]

Yes he was

[@witz]

seemed like deamon had his mind made up before the visions letting oscar tully walk all over him like that. the visions were what he needed to heal his relationship with rhyneara because of what he interpreted as a jab from her at the end of s1 with the prophecy

[@turrican4d599]

THIS. Carmine and Preston don't pay enough attention! At the least they should have read it in Daemon's facials expressions last episode.

[@CupNoodles42]

What an arc, comparing Carmine's and Preston's energy from the Snow show announcement video to this one is hilarious, we had some incredible character development in between and now their roles are completely reversed with Preston eagerly looking forward to the trainwreck and Carmine shaking his head in disbelief.

[@shahzebhasan9995]

0:47 This theory would make more sense if the White Walkers were the first vision he saw, as opposed to the last. Then his development would be him slowly realising that he is not the leader Westeros needs, having started from a point of arrogantly assuming he is the saviour.

[@OneFiction666]

Whilst I would hate to see white walker visions in Dunk and Egg, I think it would be really cool to see visions of Summerhall probably by Daeron the Drunkard.

[@efrent-vr3bm]

14:05 Baelor Breakspear is the one that will have the White Walker dream and that's what made him decide to help Dunk in the end

[@turrican4d599]

2:30 OMG. He was ready after the Visery visions! Duh!!! He made the decisions LONG before the prophecy! How didn't Preston and Carmine didn't get this?! When big nose Lord suggests, Daemon taking the crown, you can see in Daemon's face CLEARLY, how amusing he finds this turncloak and how he plays with him just like a cat dies with mice!

[@samyakpradhan2511]

In theory, it makes sense to me that the dreams wore down daemon to the point that he was ready to open his minds to this final vision. But the problem is that that's now how it felt like watching it. And I would not actually hate the actual future blood raven to show a few visions to dunk or some other character. I think it would be kinda weird if there's no reference to blood raven and what's to come with the future bloodraven present in the story.

[@stephaniec9539]

Egg will have the dagger.. and it's that that triggers Summerhall

[@sdpearshaped831]

People trying to argue the point on prophesy also don’t seem to realise this is not only a thematic issue in conflict with George’s philosophy, but it also narratively sucks.

[@blinkusfishus2052]

It's entirely possible that everything is just Bran, and nothing kills my interest in the series quicker. It destroys my enthusiasm to go back to the original series, and HOTD introduced it here. fantastic.

[@AnthonyAutomatic145]

They have turned the dagger into “The One Ring” 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@ewha2456]

I wonder if originally daemon was indeed meant to come to his own opinion and then bend the knee, with the weirwood / dagger prophecy scene to come in ep 9 or 10, but then got reworked to be put here when the ep count got reduced to 8. It'd make more sense that way.

[@Nerdixy]

That would make a lot of sense to be fair

[@MiddleEarthGirl75]

@OfficialRedTeamReview Can someone explain to me what the WW and Dany visions had to do with Rhaenyra needing to be the one on the throne? What did Daemon understand that I didn't? I'm sincerely lost.

[@markusspitznagel2011]

Is this vision thing maybe a great plan to reboot the main song of ice and fire series ? Like not this year or the next but in 5 or 10 years?

[@shenFen-jf2jk]

that requires martin finishing the books

[@markusspitznagel2011]

​@@shenFen-jf2jk thats what they hope I guess but not necessarily needed. They did it without him before and already know what people did not like xD

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

I mean... One could argue that Daemon is such a huge piece of shit that even with all the visions about his family telling him to let go of this kingship ambition of his it would take literally being told that the world will end if he doesn't bend the knee to finally get him to do it.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

I guuueesssss?

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

@@OfficialRedTeamReview Hey it's not a great defense but it's the only one I have. Plus Daemon being a selfish asshole is totally part of his character.

[@Myne1001]

Maybe the real prophecy is the friends we made along the way

[@AryaStarkTheExplorer]

Every Spinoff will have the dagger and prophecy it doesn't matter when or where. Hell, even in Essos they will tie in the white walkers

[@CallousCarter]

Carmine face reveal when? I picture him as a shorter haired Trey.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

100% but not as good looking as Trey

[@ElohElAha]

I hated the visions and all the prophecy bullshit but that Rhyanara and Daemon scene was chefs kiss 🤌🏼

[@rebaivs189]

I don't know if it ruins it, but clearly everyone forgot about that part in Game of Thrones where THEY GO TO THE WALL AND GET A DAMN ZOMBIE. And STILL, Cersei didn't even care, she wagered that they would win and it paid off. How Preston, how can you come up with the best theories and still forget that happened?????

[@AryaStarkTheExplorer]

The dagger is like the ring. Its the big part of the GOT cinematic universe.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

LMAO truueeee

[@cherylbaxter8986]

Are you serious it's brann the rolling tree Sara Hess needs to GO I want to see daemon as the real daemon

[@maxwell_j_R]

Alys could have showed him the Bloodraven/White Walker visions as a reward for choosing to kneel. And then have him survive the Gods Eye (but super injured), with the antler men/green men pulling him out of the lake to the Isle of Faces, attaching him to a wierwood to be a proto-Bloodraven who sends visions to the dreamers in the Dunk and Egg show.

[@chnk_jones]

This whole thing is going off the rails 😂

[@trajanthegreat2928]

I reckon the Dagger will be lost at the God’s Eye, then with the death of Rhaenyra and Jace mean the prophecy is lost.

[@samf.s.7731]

You have summrized my entire grievances with the last epsidoe perfectly. The ad to GoT and A Knight of The Seven Kingdoms is stuffed into HoTD, and is made to be the primary motivation for what they're doing. The dance of dragons is much more personal. The characters are great because they have their personal agendas. So wth? That's awful writing.

[@samf.s.7731]

And now I am somehow supposed to believe that the extremely high profile, and very scandalous relationship, between Aemond Targaryen and Alys Rivers is gonna happen without him SAing her, and without her slipping something in his drink of a different variety than the ones she gave to Daemon. Now, this is literally the part of the story where George wrote a chatacter doing something that's the antithesis of his most notable traits... He does that, it's a thing in ASOIAF, and it's also a thing in Elden Ring. So it seems like it was so sexy, people couldn't stop talking about it, and he breaks his engagement with Cassandra Baratheon in the book to marry Alys. A Strong Bastard, his nemesis practically (Well, Daemon is his true nemesis). But like, it was gonna be hard without them actually writing Alys into the show till Aemond shows up at Harrenhal. Now that she has shown up, i don't know how a woman like that would sleep with Aemond. She did take Grover off the ventilator though ... But that's the only "bad" thing she's done. Edit: And he's going to kill Simon Strong and all Strongs but Larys, she'd be at the mercy of his feet, errrr foot .. Which he likes, which makes it worse.

[@chvsmr9369]

I’m even scared to ask this but you don’t think that, after the gullet, they’re gonna pull a s8 Dany with rhaenyra as in losing her son and being super super sad and angry so when alicent opens the doors and surrenders the city she’ll feel like it was “too easy” aaaannd burn things in her path when all she talked about this season is not using dragons on people and thats why people start turning on her

[@iheartcicada]

IMO the only way the Song of Ice and Fire can be tied into Dunc and Egg would be focusing on the fact Aerys I deliberately did not have kids knowing the fact Maekar's line/destiny of his branch of the family would entail.

[@bananaforscale1283]

White Walkers were secret motivation for Targaryen for ages. The show does good job setting it up, it doesn't matter that it ended badly in the show. Jon Snow sequel could still fix that up if they would try to do it.

[@idawg7332]

How often does trying to fix a bad story work? Dexter ended horribly, they tried to fix it with new blood and then people hated that ending just as bad if not worse

[@ruthbennett7563]

I’m trying to shake my love for the wisdom of the « Bhavagad Gita » to square my issues with this series. Arjuna received visions to take his part in his familial civil war. Cool. Deep. This series made a hash of it, however.

[@watchofwallstreet935]

Dunk will most likely have a vision of the white walkers right before he tries to bring dragons back

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Probably

[@LarthV]

You mean Egg, but yeah - that's possible...

[@darthstarfire]

Why is everyone forgetting the dumbest thing. Daemon wants to create civil in the middle of a civil war. With houses literally declaring for his wife. Make that make sense😂😂😂😂

[@robertzenniful]

Perhaps the white walker prophecy was lost during the war of the dance of the dragons and brought back into the fold when the three eye crow sends a dream to Raygar

[@aegorrivers6700]

The dagger is like Thor's hammer in the game of thrones cinematic universe, we use it to connect all the spin offs.

[@MelindaLarkin]

it is actually easy for daemon to fight for rhaenyra because it is a war that has been building up since viserys married alicent and she had his sons...it is not rhaenyra and her sons who are a challenge to him or passing him over but the greens... daemon has reasons for fighting for rhaenyra like if aegon sits the throne then he would definetly be passed over... because of their usurpation, they would have to kill the rival claimants and in books he doesnt need the crown not only because he i s lord protector but because he does know his worth he isnt emotional about him being passed over for rhaenyra his strategy was to marry rhaenyra and he is king consort knows war better than his enemies combined why is they minimizing daemon actions and power and agency he has men loyal to him and is getting word from important places in the realm why is they minimizing him and all the other characters as well even the war itself is not impactful because it is basically meaningless and they tell us this instead of letting us come to our own conclusion about if we think daemon I s an evil individual or if the characters are right because in fire and blood they all have good reasons... fir their actions also it is too early for aegon and larys to leave kingslanding because aemond suspects larys of treachery and betrayal after he takes harrenhall but they minimize the story

[@kjellduteweert9262]

The only reason for them to put that is they are remaking Got. Or at least I hope that is the reason. Otherwise is fucking stupid to remind us of that disaster.

[@AnthonyAutomatic145]

Holy Shit… this series is 100% going to end with an adult Isaac Hempstead Wright, sitting in his chair, probably with a beard 🧔🏻‍♂️ eyes white and he comes back to his senses, makes some vaguely prescient comment and then is wheeled away by Grand Maester Sam Tarly and the music plays them out. P.S. I’m sorry for putting this out to the Universe 🤢

[@gameinspection4999]

I feel like. We could have had interesting characters without this prophecy stuff to be completely honest. These stories have existed for well over a decade and there was zero mention of aegon having a vision, Jaeherys passing it down to viserys, etc. What I've noticed is that HBO is trying to use prophecy and mysticism to cover up character writing and development. And game of thrones is always at its best when it's just two people, talking it out. At least in my opinion anyway

[@charlinethom1624]

I didn't mind the prophecy bit I always took as more book-based anyway; I had other problems with this season, like cutting certain characters...

[@Leo_ofRedKeep]

"Everybody wants to hear their actions don't mean anything" - this is the childish desire not to have to do anything but play, the very root of escapism.

[@NYCfrankie]

Im ok with HOTD and a Knight of the Seven plus any other spin offs failing IF it means GRRM finishes the books but it's not gunna happen but i can hope

[@osheroth]

I wonder if they're legitimately going for a separate canon between the shows, Bloodraven and the white walkers in the visions looked VERY different already

[@charlinethom1624]

Not only did Bloodraven look completely different from his GoT couterpart with his birthmark (which is clearly more based on the books), they also didn't show the Night King, a character that doesn't exist in the books.

[@Leo_ofRedKeep]

"It's Bran the entire time" - or rather it's "the three-eyed raven" taking over successive people and replacing them when they are used up. Bran got sucked into the self-conscious weirwoodnet.

[@jeffreyjbyron]

I was super excited for a “who tf is this dude riding my nephew-brother in-law’s dragon” scene. At least something to acknowledge the craziest feat of the story. Isn’t daemon supposed to be obsessed with dragons?

[@bitbyaturtle]

Dagger = The One Ring?

[@benifited]

Why would anyone other than king Deron have the dagger when he is still alive during the tourney of ashford?

[@jikGeek]

Until GRRM writes the damn books or GOT is remade, GOT S8 is all we got 😢😢😢 and its all they can reference / go back to regarding the white walker😢

[@sdpearshaped831]

The inconsistencies from episode to episode and this is fundamental backward understanding of prophecy’s actual role in the story that has really soured me on this show. And I gave it a shot all the way to the end of the season.

[@josephlarkin7167]

I was okay with viserys being a dreamer even haelena but now it's going way too far because dreams is something they had to interpret you couldn't understand or comprehend everything I thought this would work in making her mad because she would try her best to change everything I didn't think she would see everything I didn't think she would excel in her powers it minimizes the characters and the story daemon shouldn't be moved by this I actually think he would want it more why couldnt daemon be named protector of the realm when rhaenyra was crowned on dragonstone this makes him less Power hungry and gives him to motivation to protect his family because in fire and blood it was really alicent sons who pushed him farther down succession... I think his plan was always to marry rhaenyra because it targaryen tradition I don't see it as evil because it is their house tradition to make themselves stronger the enemy is the hightowers this is why daemon is fighting because he understands war he the most experinced and most dangerous in this time why make his so low why destroy the characters and the story because of prophecy I was okay with viserys but not okay with alicent mistaking his words... I think they should all have their own motivations this adds impact if it's from their own choices despite viserys having that one dream and speaking on aegon the conqueror it should have been planned like in fire and blood instead of alicent being naive make her the leader alicent being kicked from power after her son regency adds impact because IT IS HER FAULT I DONT THINK THE STORY SHOULD BE TIED IN WITH GAME OF THRONES BECAUSE IT IS SEPERATE THIS IS WAR AND WHO BETTER UNDERSTAND IT THAN DAEMON WHY DESTROY HIM WITH PROPHECY

[@carlrood4457]

It's called filming out of sequence. Especially with location shoots, it's cheaper to film all the scenes at the same time than travel back and forth from the studio/lot.