The Problem with Jukebox Musicals and How &Juliet Solved It (feat. AJ Rafael)

[@ajrafael]

Such a great deep dive. Thanks for having me, Howard!

[@HowardHoMusic]

What an honor to get to collab with you!

[@annekeener4119]

One of the most famous musical films, Singing in the Rain, is technically a jukebox musical. It uses songs from MGM’s extensive catalog of music with the exception of two of them, one of which was basically plagiarizing a Cole Porter song. It’s not obvious though because they are decently integrated into the plot.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Exactly! It's a form that has been with us forever.

[@trinaq]

Most Jukebox Musicals have paper thin stories, since the preexisting songs were written into the story, and usually feel slightly shoe horned in. "And Juliet" makes them make sense, and assigns each song to the perfect characters.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Agreed.

[@lammieshipper]

HAHAH SIXTY NINTH LIKE UNDER THIS COMMENT

[@miscellaneousmadness3676]

I agree. Also I love your profile pic, Addams Family is one of my favorite musicals!

[@Arosukir6]

SNL hating on Moulin Rouge when the movie version is not just one of my favorite jukebox musicals, but one of my favorite musicals *period.* I watched it when I was pretty young, and I didn't even realize the songs were from somewhere else. I'd even heard "Like A Virgin" and "I Will Always Love You" before, but I somehow didn't recognize them. They felt like they belonged to the story in that moment. My grandparents are from Puerto Rico, and my parents grew up mostly in the pop music of the 80s-90s (Michael Jackson, Madonna, the growing hip hop genre, etc). So people like The Beetles, Elton John, and David Bowie weren't household names for us. The only Elton John songs I knew were from The Lion King! So as far as I thought at the time, Your Song and Nature Boy and etc came from Moulin Rouge. Thankfully I got introduced to those folks later on and came to like their music as well, but for a while I had no idea the Moulin Rouge versions were covers. To this day, I still prefer a few of the covers in the Moulin Rouge movie to their original versions (especially Roxanne). And its original song, Come What May, is phenomenal imo. Tldnr, I can definitely see the flaws in most jukebox movies. But I will defend the Moulin Rouge movie any day of the week! 😂

[@HowardHoMusic]

I love how much people connect with Moulin Rouge!

[@cerrida82]

The movie is incredible! I can't listen to the OBC, it feels more like the SNL parody than anything organic

[@constancep7632]

Me too! The covers are amazing, and I love Come What May so much ❤

[@kelly_kpb]

Respecting your opinion, I am one of the few musical addicts that absolutely abhors Moulin Rouge. It is routinely in my top 3 list of worst movies of all time, and I seriously overpaid for my movie ticket at the $0.99 theater. It is just so overdone, they can’t sing, poorly edited, incredibly campy, and takes itself too seriously . . . I just can’t. Movies or shows such as Mamma Mia (to use the example given here) *know* they are campy and embrace it. Moulin Rouge could have been great if it weren’t trying so hard to be the next great iconic show.

[@thomashendricks9774]

I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, my wife and I's wedding song is Come What May.

[@bbbeansss4757]

I once tried to articulate all the points you made and I just felt like a crazy person so I'm glad I'm not alone in the opinion that &Juliet is great because of all of the work it does to integrate the music into the story. Another great example of this is when Frankie tells Juliet his full name, she can't pronounce all the French so she just calls him Frankie da Boy instead of Francois de Bois. Later in Everybody they sing "the boy band's back" instead of "Backstreet's back" and there's even a little sign in the back that says "de Bois band". I just think it's such a fun little switch up and my best friend still make jokes about it

[@HowardHoMusic]

Yes! I did consider putting in de Bois band in the video, and I'm glad you're mentioning it here. Maybe I'll do a short on it. Thanks for watching!

[@wolfpackjew]

Alan Menken really paved the way for a lot of this - startingnwith Little Shop of Horrors. It mixed 50s do-wop with 80s rock and pop, all mixed together and put on a stage. Then he wrote all those Disney songs that inspired a whole new generation to love movie musicals leadingninto more stage musicals. Sing the final lines to "Somewhere thats green" and "part of your world" out loud and then try telling me thwy are different songs lol

[@HowardHoMusic]

Absolutely Menken understands the use of genre, but I would add that Howard Ashman was pivotal in these successes too!

[@ifemi.q]

This is how I feel for Hell's Kitchen the Musical as a Black New York native. It is a jukebox musical that contextualizes the story and songs to work harmoniously. And with so much respectfully and masterfully done accuracy and authenticity in the depiction of 90s New York, it's about time for people to recognize the possibilities of jukebox musicals.

[@midnightrose676]

I feel like that jukebox musical only work if the musical is about a singer or a songwriter. Most of their songs can be interpreted in different ways so it’s easy to apply them to their life. But I think Beautiful the Carole King musical did it the best. Hell’s kitchen was good though, made me cry

[@oh.sorry.dont.mind.meeeee]

completely disagree. we can be much more creative than that! ​@@midnightrose676

[@astrawberrycookie]

I actually really like jukebox musicals. They are a good entry point for people who are not sure whether they like them! My entry point to musicals in general was indeed Mamma Mia!

[@HowardHoMusic]

Oh yes jukebox musicals are a great gateway for new fans! I actually had a section about that in the video but I eventually cut it. Maybe I'll bring it back as a short!

[@astrawberrycookie]

@@HowardHoMusic That would be great!

[@12345678abracadabra]

A lot of pasek and Paul's musicals feel like their songs were written first then found their musical later, especially their showstoppers. I truly believe that greatest showman was put together with only rejected songs they couldn't fit elsewhere

[@HowardHoMusic]

Interesting!

[@ajmalaika1287]

I still remember the interviews with Hugh saying he’d make them rewrite the songs over and over till it was catchy enough that he could hum it the next or how DEH started centring the merphys hence requiem and switch to Evan. There feels like a shift in song type/intention

[@undyneleech]

i was having an argument w my friends about the definition of musicals and the jukebox musical was kind of difficult for us to grasp since you can take out all the musical sections and the story is unchanged for many of these shows, and i haven’t heard “&juliet” yet so this is great timing lol

[@mayabairey]

This topic is so relevant for me! The structure of jukebox musicals, combining existing content into a new narrative, is incredibly tricky. Howard does the same here in such a concise form!

[@frances6903]

this is great timing considering the casting announcement of joey from nsync in and juliet!

[@HowardHoMusic]

I know, right? Totally unplanned!

[@JustMeJH]

Howard, you make musicals and the hidden language of music so accessible to me! Thank you!

[@hyperfocusworkshop]

When I saw &Juliet with a friend who usually dislikes Jukebox musicals, I was thinking about how Max Martin's limited English, and the ways his writing for Pop is generic ("I want it that way" and not "Tommy went to work on the docks") actually makes his music the perfect candidate for creating meaning through story. But even in my own deep dive I hadn't thought about the I Want thread or some of the leitmotifs. Amazing work as always, Howard. Seeing &Juliet again next month and I'm even more excited now

[@skallywalla502]

Your video essays are one of the best out there - when this ended, I literally let out a sigh of satisfaction with "that was BRILLIANT!" If songs feel tied to story and make sense for characters and relationships and move the story forward - and actually provide freaking leitmotifs (!) - then it doesn't matter when the songs were written. This deep dive opened my mind and, hopefully the next time I'm in New York, see about getting tickets to "& Juliet".

[@maliciousmath]

I saw &Juliet in its Toronto run with my 9 year old daughter. I was really impressed with the way the songs landed, and that my daughter loved the music, despite never having heard the originals. It just feels like so many threads being pulled together to make the whole just fit together

[@ColtraneAndRain]

I have always dreamed of a show based on Adele's song Someone Like You. "Nevermind I'll find someone like you, I wish nothing but the best for you! Don't forget me, I beg, I remember you said, sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead". You musical genius get on it and give me credit as inspiration!

[@HowardHoMusic]

LOL

[@hilarymoonmurphy]

I now want to see &Juliet! Thank you for this excellent (and enticing) review.

[@hilarymoonmurphy]

Oh! I just realized that our season tickets include &Juliet, so I will get to see this Musical in May!

[@mavis.riley.johnson]

i saw & Juliet in Aus and it blew my mind, the cast was phenomenal.

[@ScaryMeadow]

I feel like the answer to so many "Is X bad?" questions is simply "Of course not, not when the people who do it care about their work".

[@HowardHoMusic]

Haha, yes, I think that caring about these details goes a long way. Of course, it's easier said than done, but when it does happen, it can be a beautiful thing.

[@rebekahmay1815]

Ayeeeeee That’s my sisterrrrrr!!! Amazing video as always Howard! This is such a cool deep dive! 💕

[@HowardHoMusic]

I'm so proud to highlight Hannah!!!!!

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

I am picky about which jukebox musicals I like. My college did a production of All Shook Up, which I really loved, and I definitely like Mamma Mia. I love that this video essay is about an hour long. Also love your Warriors hat! I got into the movie thanks to the album!

[@debram8221]

I loved &Juliet but now I’ll love it even more. Your deep dives teach me so much. Thank you for another great lesson.

[@Camila-cd7xe]

I stopped watching the video to go watch &Juliet and now I'm back. I never gave it a chance bc it was a jukebox musical. I didn't hate it, it was entertaining. I do think now jukebox musicals have the potential to be creative and more than a cash grab, but &Juliet being the best example is a little sad since it's far from greatness. Great video Howard!! I'll be paying more attention to these musicals.

[@HowardHoMusic]

I appreciate you taking the time to consider jukebox musicals. Thanks!

[@krystalhuntress6795]

Thank you so much for this video! I've loved & Juliet since it's been in London and I genuinely think it's one of the funniest and most pretty looking musicals ever. I've always loved the instrumentation of the pop songs as well. I'm just so glad it's getting in depth analysis like this

[@alouise]

That was really well done and definitely is making me think of jukebox musicals in a new way. I've seen a few jukebox musicals and while there are some I enjoy I don't think I'll see a jukebox musical as my favourite musical. I'm from Canada and I don't know if I'll get a chance to see &Juliet on Broadway but if it does come close to where i live at any point I'll go check it out. I definitely didnt feel that way before watching this video.

[@HowardHoMusic]

I hope you get the chance to see it!

[@begaydocrime5719]

I rarely ever cried at youtube videos, but when so much love and respect and fondness is put into something?

[@erichb414]

When I first listened to this soundtrack - the OG one before broadway, I remember hearing the "I want it that way reprise" and falling in love with it. It's so beautiful, and even without the other context it's such a good use of that song and the orchestration and everything is just perfect.

[@CalxiynCaresTooMuch]

I am THE Jukebox musical hater so I am looking forward to this!

[@CalxiynCaresTooMuch]

This was fantastic! I still feel like for me personally I’d have a hard time suspending my disbelief (like knowing these songs and hearing them on the radio before tends to take me out of it) but this was a great breakdown of how to make Jukebox musicals “work” Vs why they tend not to. I learned a lot that I didn’t know for sure!

[@HowardHoMusic]

@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I feel like I made this video for you! Glad you saw it with an open mind!

[@j.emiles]

As much as I respect your take on Mamma Mia, Donna did, in fact, get cheated on by Sam. That’s, like, their whole history: he ran away from his fiancée (without a breakup) to Greece, met Donna, she found out he was engaged so he went back to Lorraine (the fiancée), got married, got divorced, tried to come back to Greece for Donna, and found her with Bill.

[@HowardHoMusic]

For sure! AJ definitely was acknowledging the cheating storyline. What he was questioning was whether it was done organically or whether it felt like an obvious attempt to satisfy the lyric.

[@losfp]

Great video as always, Howard. Very interesting stuff. I don't MIND jukebox musicals, especially if they fall more on the fun side because you know going in what you're in for. You know the songs are going to be shoehorned in to fix whatever story they've cooked up to fit the songs in the first place, and you know there's not going to be a lot of sophistication and recurring themes in the music. That's all cool. &Juliet and Moulin Rouge IMO do it better than most in that they have a mostly cohesive story and they have big impressive set pieces and choreography to make up for the weaker parts of the show. I've seen both in Sydney and enjoyed both for the most part. I think there's nothing wrong with enjoying a show where you just turn your brain off for 3 hours and tap your feet to familiar songs being performed by talented performers.

[@kelvinkao7436]

The jukebox musicals that's about the musician's life usually don't feel that forced. If a song doesn't fit the story, they just put that song in a scene where they are performing at a concert / recording at the studio. It's the kind where they make up a new story that have a tendency to be clunky. Sounds like &Juliet did a really great job fitting the story and the songs together, though. I look forward to seeing the show one day! I think this show did benefit from the fact that it's pulling from the catalog of a songwriter instead of a performer. The songs were already associated with different singers, and it expanded the points of views right off the bat. I am also thinking about this idea of reprises. Musical theater regularly have songs that are sung at the beginning of the show that are reprised later in a show to mean different things. In this case, I can imagine these characters singing reprises to what the original singer's version too, like them in a previous life of sorts. A few years ago, I saw Invincible, which is a re-telling of Romeo and Juliet using songs of Pat Benatar and Neil Giraldo. They not only go from dialogue into songs, but also slide into original Shakespeare verses. The frequent switching also means they won't insist on repeating verses and choruses. I think doing the proper cutting does help the songs fit into the story a lot better. I don't normally like to watch these videos before seeing the shows, but I'm making an exception cuz I really want to hear what you have to say about jukebox musicals!

[@joelvandyke7505]

Re: I want it that way as a backstreet song- contradictions are CRUNCHY. Your brain wants to chew on it.

[@HowardHoMusic]

True, that could be why they're more memorable!

[@Jellybeansatdusk]

I love jukebox musicals because that’s how I listen to music in my free time. I pick songs to tell a story in my head 😅 every day in my living room or on a walk.

[@carolineh8713]

Yessssssssss 🔥🔥 This original cast recording got me through lockdown: listened to it every single day. I have such a fondness for this show. Plus the book's full of delightful Shakespeare jokes! What's not to love?

[@jessedutlow1068]

I played May in the Australian/ Asian premiere of & Juliet and as a literature student, I never got bored even after 400 performances over a year and half because there was just so much to find in the script and music. I would go down to the orchestra pit and listen to the band, and pick up on motifs and themes that underly big and small moments. And I learnt even more from your video! Amazing work 👏🏽

[@HowardHoMusic]

That's awesome! Thanks for letting me know you saw the video! I seriously hope everyone involved in this show knows just how much it is appreciated.

[@charmedandarmed]

I was gutted when &Juliet closed in London I saw it so many times it was my comfort show. I love how they arent afraid to hit the emotional beats as well as the comedy. Even your joke character gets a song like Shape of my Heart which makes me tear up every time.

[@yankee04]

This was awesome. Thanks so much! Really enjoy & Juliet. Now will look even deeper.

[@fad23]

Singin' in the Rain doesn't seem to get called out as a Jukebox Musical. Possibly because it predates jukeboxes?

[@HowardHoMusic]

It came out before jukebox musicals proliferated in the 70s with some very prominent biomusicals like Ain't Misbehavin and Sophisticated Ladies. But yes, these types of shows always existed and were often beloved.

[@catcolour444]

Oh nice, I can watch this to prepare for the German premiere next week!

[@johnnzboy]

This video is just so brilliant and a pleasure to watch, I really loved the graphics! I laughed with glee often as you thoroughly, perceptively and joyfully examined this unexpectedly fascinating subject. And great interviewees, especially AJ and Shoshana, the Museum of Broadway looks like a blast! I really enjoyed the breakdown of the different types of jukebox musical - who doesn't love a bubble diagram? - does a Max Martin-based musical have an advantage over other JMs when it comes to better integrating song and story since his songs were written for various singers and thus are more generic, whereas for single artist/band-based JMs their songs were crafted to be in keeping with the artist's style or pop/rock niche and could be quirky or character-based or psychedelic etc. (in other words, B-sidey) and thus are less easy to repurpose to a convincing original story? And what a masterpiece of repurposing & Juliet clearly is, as we've now learnt in forensic detail! I'm amused by the idea that Martin's limited vocabulary might account for the repetition of certain commonplace words (and thus concepts) in his songs ;) Although, does he actually write the lyrics for most of his songs? And if you wanna talk about songs that always had problematic lyrics, um Born to Make You Happy anyone?! (and I've always despaired of I'm a Slave 4 U) An impressive work, Howard, bravo.

[@sarahswanson7745]

My favorite juxebox musical is American Idiot. It was based off a concept album so it had that upper hand but it’s just soooo good.

[@oh.sorry.dont.mind.meeeee]

YES! 💯 I LOVED that musical. The Bowie jukebox musical was good too, i got to see Sophie Anne Caruso and Micheal C Hall from Dexter ! they were phenomenal

[@jonelrobinson582]

Love this video! I really like jukebox musicals. &Juilet is such a fun musical.

[@EdReggi]

Outstanding video and storytelling about how the jukebox musical has entered our culture. Bravo! My only issue with jukebox musicals is the commercialization of musical theatre. These music companies, producers, and studios are driving the next generation of what we watch and let’s not kid ourselves about the investments in making them work. & Juliet made all those songs shoot back up on the charts which put $$$ back into the record labels pocketbooks. I’m all for artists making their money but I also want to give new composers and musicians an opportunity to show me their talent. We can’t keep musical theatre alive if we hand it over to existing music making machines.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Thanks, Ed, for watching. I agree that we need to protect opportunities for new and original composers. Unfortunately, I've also seen many new and original shows close early or flop. In a way, jukebox musicals might be a temporary way for shows to feature new and challenge forms like hiphop before audiences are ready to see an original score in that genre. My hope is that with musicals being more in the vernacular conversation (including jukebox musicals but also including shows like Hamilton and Six) that new composers will get more opportunities as a result.

[@RebelGirl0309]

So if you don’t get it May or Mey is actually how the Swedish word for Me is pronounced it’s written Mig and uses a soft G sound instead of a hard G [which if you wanna learn Swedish you have to remember when a word has a soft G and when it has a hard G cuz words like Girig(greedy) and Gilla(like) have a soft G sound while words like Gott(Delicious) and Gris(Pig) have a hard G sound] which when translated to English phonetics does resemble a Y sound. It’s an interesting way of emphasizing the Me by changing the way it’s pronounced/enunciated cuz it draws attention to itself! (Little fun language fact there)

[@broadwaycorner]

Love this video and &Juliet. Amazing job, Howard!

[@thebeebz9511]

"Melodic Math" is just a form of Counterpoint in music theory. Chorus in coutnerpoint with the verse was done by Disneyland. The REASON the Pirates of the Caribbean and It's a Small World ride themes get stuck in your head so easily is due to that very technique.

[@constancep7632]

Great point!

[@oh.sorry.dont.mind.meeeee]

great video! love the inception portion. I love Schitt's Creek. ❤

[@AlessandraCartocci]

Absolutely ADORE your videos. This one? Spectacular! Thank you

[@maskeddave]

Would be really interesting to compare with American Idiot, which is a musical taking one album as writen and putting a story around it (that apparently Green Day had it mind at the time? Not sure I by that). Also feels criminal to ignore Rock of Ages here because I think that (stage show, not the film) is a jukebox musical that doesn't feel like one at all.

[@HowardHoMusic]

American Idiot is a concept album, which means that yes the original artist did have a story in mind. Maybe I'll do a video breakdown of concept albums too, especially now that Lin-Manuel Miranda just released a concept album WARRIORS. Check that one out if you like concept albums.

[@jonathanhibberd9983]

So they did with Frankie and May what Lin Manuel Miranda did with Bruno (formerly named Oscar) in Encanto. Naming the character to fit the lyric.

[@MelissaBlue]

I saw & Juliet on tour last month and I wish I had watched this before I went. I felt a little underwhelmed by how the songs were selected and performed (and fell into the general criticism about jukebox musicals). I would have appreciated the show more, especially with more knowledge around the poorly done jukebox musicals.

[@kitkatm6559]

Wow. I’m always amazed how you can discover and share all these hidden or overseen details in musicals. “I must confess… when I with you I lose my mind” 😉

[@fad23]

Glad you called out Bill Sherman. We need more FLS love in this world! I didn't realize he worked on & Juliet!

[@beabravo6759]

What a king AJ is. And yes. He is objectively the best and most distinguishable and unique vocalist in the Backstreet Boys.

[@beabravo6759]

I kinda love the fact that this is an unofficial Backstreet Boys musical.

[@constancep7632]

I saw & Juliet in May 2023 and I loved it! I'm an elder Millenial (and Québécoise, so very fond of Céline) though, the songs were my teenagehood, so there was a huge nostalgia factor for me. That said, my mom enjoyed it too!

[@probitionate]

Saw it on Broadway this year. Well, I saw half of it; I didn't return to my seat for act two. (Admittedly, the other four shows we saw during our three-day visit were amazing, so the bar was set pretty high.)

[@navypinkdesign]

This reminds me of meat eaters getting mad about vegan “meat” existing; you ain’t gotta eat it! It’s ok if something wasn’t made with you in mind.

[@emmakuru8546]

Delightful video❤

[@DilutedH2SO4]

50-minute-long Howard Ho video, the world is good!

[@chlochae]

this was so great! I’d never realized people had grown up with musical theatre because of Disney..maybe because Disney started putting out live action adaptation when I was a kid lol. also plz plz plz do a video on Warriors!! I’ll be waiting

[@elitettelbach4247]

Really great video!

[@fad23]

Saw this back in January and I'm curious about your take!

[@olived9560]

Amazing video!!

[@conrad4852]

This was a superb video!

[@emeliawharmby]

i somehow found myself getting to see &juliet on its premiere run in manchester back in 2019, and my friend who’s pretty sceptical of jukebox musicals even admitted it was pretty good. we said we’d want see it again back then but it’s been five years and i’m yet too whoops. i wonder if they changed anything?

[@jessiuss_juiice]

as someone who has a passing interest in musicals and clicked on this video… i’ve never heard the term jukebox musical before, and it took until 6:45 for me to figure it out. even if you think a term is ubiquitous, if your making a whole video about it you might want to spend a couple of seconds defining it.

[@oh.sorry.dont.mind.meeeee]

you're*

[@TheMovieSequelDude49]

This video is great btw. But can't wait for the inevitable Warriors video.

[@AlexandreFilho1705]

why am i crying over a youtube video about the max martin jukebox musical

[@TheJonHolstein]

There were songs from musicals that made it in to the mainstream in the 70sm 80s and 90s as well. Hair and West side story, for example, but as those were films, some might not put them in the Musicals category. I'm not sure how, but a lot of people have heard at least the Jesus Christ superstar part from Jesus Christ Superstar, and the movie version wasn't a huge success, so I am not sure how that entered the mainstream. But then there were Chess the musical, with hit singles and even the album got on the charts. And Cats the musical as well. In Sweden several of songs from Kristina från Duvemåla made in on to the charts. With Evita the movie, there were hits from that as well... I am unsure if the original musical ever hit the charts, but I think it might. There are probably other examples I can't think of right now.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Oh yes, for sure. The crossover moments did happen and were cherished by fans.

[@thebeebz9511]

I TRIED to get into it Howard,... But my issue is the same problem I had with Glee and Kidz Bop - It *Sanitizes* the songs. I can't explain it. It was cool to learn about Max Martin though.

[@HowardHoMusic]

I appreciate you giving it a chance. Interesting take on the "sanitization" of the songs.

[@kl-1447]

This is a really well put together video! I wonder if you had any thoughts regarding the lack of Taylor Swift songs in &Juliet since Max Martin had a few hits with her as well? Some I think would be too on the nose and probably wouldn't fit the story, but there are some that could very easily fit in. Do you think it was about getting the rights, or not wanting to make it about TS (though &J came out in 2020, so pre-Eras Tour), or other reasons?

[@HowardHoMusic]

Great question! I wonder if it points to TS wanting to do her own jukebox musical somewhere down the line. That would be my guess, although we have seen other artists like Britney's songs used in multiple jukebox musicals now (Moulin Rouge, Once Upon a One More Time, &J).

[@kl-1447]

@HowardHoMusic Oh, that's a good point. I know that some swifties have been wanting her to write an original Broadway musical, and I can definitely see that being a thing, but a jukebox musical also would be easier to her to put together (especially later on if they want to do something like A Beautiful Noise where it's biographical). She's also ruthless with her IP and brand so I kind of figured that was a big part of it.

[@Petulant_Petrichor]

I'd love to see a Jukebox musical where all songs are B-Sides or Deep cuts.

[@michaelangeloabarreto4588]

Yeah i feel like older musicals like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang they would sing about literally everythinf happening that it didnt even foward the plot

[@life.with.sabine]

Interesting topic

[@jacquelinealbin7712]

I'm just so tired of biopic jukebox musicals specifically. Jersey Boys ruined Bway with this. They're stale and predictable. I don't care if it's Britney or Cher, I love them, but I'm bored. I'd rather read their wiki pages while listening to their actual music.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Yeah, I feel you, and I hope more shows take the challenge of &Juliet and try to make the narratives more integrated to the songs.

[@hilarymoonmurphy]

I thought Jagged Little Pill did a better job than most jukebox musicals integrating the plot with the songs.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Oh cool, wish I could've seen it!

[@gilangsetyawibawa185]

Analyze Wicked please, Howard!

[@moonwalkerangel7008]

After watching this analysis of jukebox musicals and how & Juliet works, I am embarrassed because I had written a jukebox musical when I was 17 or so centred around Michael Jackson's music in a prison setting. If I found the script book today, I would be embarrassed as some songs like Smooth Criminal, Bad, They Don't Care about us and Scream although they sort of fit, other songs were shoehorned in.

[@HowardHoMusic]

I mean, it sounds like a fun way to start writing musicals though!

[@beabravo6759]

Can we also talk about the fact that you're named after my fave Backstreet Boy?

[@atuljoshi1990]

It’s also frees book writers from having to work with songwriters. 😮

[@HowardHoMusic]

In a way that's true, but also the book writer does work with the songwriter in the sense of needing the songwriter's approval on the script. But in terms of crafting the songs themselves, the bookwriter gets to have more of a say in shaping the narrative.

[@katiew6935]

Moulin Rouge is amazing

[@99lodewijk]

I think one of the best Jukebox musicals is Tanz der Vampire, it completely rewrites the texts of existing songs to fit their new context. Total Eclipse, Objects in the Rearview Mirror, Tonight is What it Means to Be Young etc. But that's a virtue of the songs needing to be translated anyway. It's why Mamma Mia will work better in any other language than English, because the translator is free to tweak the text to fit the context. It's why I genuinely dislike Moulin Rouge, &Juliet and the rest of these Neo-Jukebox musicals that brand their shows on these hitsongs. They work in context in English, but you can't translate them because you're selling the shows on the popularity of the songs. And fans of Ariana Grande will not want to listen to translated hits.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Interesting. Apparently &Juliet has been performed in Germany, although I don't think it was translated. I think Jim Steinman's songwriting is strong enough that you could build new musicals from them, so that sounds amazing.

[@99lodewijk]

@@HowardHoMusic yeah that's my point, &Juliet is currently playing in Germany and most if not all of the songs are performed in English whilst the rest of the play is in German, directly separating the songs from the context of the story. The same with Moulin Rouge in the Netherlands. Interestingly enough for the local replica productions of 'Tina! The Tina Turner Musical' they translated story-relevant songs while keeping diegetic performances in English.

[@HowardHoMusic]

I see. As a side note, I believe the Backstreet Boys actually began their career in Germany, where they were first accepted as stars before even the US caught on. So in a weird way, it feels right for their material to be treated this way.

[@mallowtonmouse]

Did this video's audio mixing hurt anyone else's ears?

[@HowardHoMusic]

It hurt your ears? Oh no...

[@mallowtonmouse]

@@HowardHoMusic could have been random, i'll try to finish the video soon ^^

[@hellogoditsmesara3569]

Jesse Green, my mortal enemy

[@HowardHoMusic]

People who know my history know why I put that in there...

[@aysada]

So is Drew Barrymore unaware of what a coincidence is?

[@HowardHoMusic]

To be fair, I did cut off her eventual point, which was that Anne Hathaway's husband also looks like Shakespeare, so it's actually two coincidences together!

[@aysada]

@@HowardHoMusic ok. Fair enough, then. I still think she sounded too astounded about the first coincidence

[@lawrencejosephglatt8185]

Thanks, Howard, you gave me a lot to think about. I absolutely hate jukebox musicals, both philosophically, and the result. As someone who writes musicals and is unable to write a jukebox musical I do feel creatively excluded, and nobody really likes that. In addition, when I see a jukebox musical, I always find that the music, upstages the story because no matter how well the music is chosen it never feels right. The one exception that I’ve seen is Jersey Boys because it is a really good story and the music is an essential part of the story. At some point, I will see Juliet because I am curious. However, I do feel that your using Sondheim to justify why Juliet is good is a little dishonest. I coincidentally listened to a Sondheim interview, the one from 2009, right after listening to your video. I think you’re simplifying musical writing to dropping in a unifying music theme and finding songs with the same word is so much a disservice to what writing a musical is. Sondheim did not like jukebox musicals because they mean that there isn’t a generation of writers writing musicals. If you really love musicals, not just opportunities to hear covers of songs you like, you have to take this seriously.

[@lawrencejosephglatt8185]

Another thing that I think was a little dishonest. After this, I’ll shut up. Using Jonathan Larson as an example is really the opposite of what you’re saying. He did try to bridge popular styles into theater and you’re right, that has always happened. But remember: every jukebox musical means a young Jonathan Larson does not get their shot, maybe gives up, And great American music theater does not happen. Is that really what you want?

[@HowardHoMusic]

Hi Lawrence, thanks for watching the video. As a composer and playwright, I too am very concerned about opportunities for new writers. I'm sorry to hear that you feel jukebox musicals are taking away those opportunities, but I feel like that is not the complete picture. The whole point of talking about the divide between musical theatre and pop music is because it shows that the audience for musical theatre is not necessarily a given. The focus on new writers is fantastic when audiences want new musicals, but that wasn't the case 30 years ago. When the artform wasn't part of the vernacular, audiences were shrinking among the younger generations and that is what spurred Jonathan Larson to try to rectify this problem. And even then people balk at his use of rock and other genres that were unorthodox at the time. So that is the overall problem facing shows. In that context, jukebox musicals develop and expand the future audience for musicals by becoming a gateway to many. It may be somewhat idealistic, but jukebox musicals can generate interest from people who didn't like musicals before and get them more comfortable with trying out original musicals, which then paves the way for more Jonathan Larsons and people like us. In the long run, it does us a greater service for musical theatre and pop to be in conversation with each other than for the two worlds to be divided. Then perhaps someday original musicals will overtake jukebox musicals for audience popularity and new writers/composers can once again dominate the scene. But until then, I would like to advocate for more artful and well-crafted jukebox musicals to win the audience over with smart writing than to just have a bunch of hits that are repeated for fans.

[@HowardHoMusic]

I do not think I've been "dishonest" and I care very deeply about opportunities for new writers. To respond to your first usage of "dishonest," I'm not using Sondheim to justify jukebox musicals. Quite the contrary, I'm using Sondheim to show how high the bar has been set by him, and then asking whether &Juliet can even approach that level of writing. I'm not saying &Juliet is as good as Sondheim, but I'm saying that it is at least trying to attempt his level of craft, which I think is more than most jukebox musicals even try. If you find it insufficiently artful, that's fine, but I admire the attempt to feed the audience more than just nostalgia. To respond to your second usage of "dishonest," you are correct that Broadway is a zero-sum game and that there are only so many theatres that exist to house these shows. But I would argue that Broadway producers are not necessarily chomping at the bit to get new composers into production. Would you consider revivals taking away your writing opportunities as well? Because there has been an increase in revivals as well, and by your logic, they are also a threat to new writers. And I've seen many new shows with exciting new scores flop, because in many ways, the audience would prefer the revivals or an original show that resembles a revival than be challenged with something new and unorthodox. So the jukebox musical then becomes a conduit for something new and unorthodox to take root first, thus paving the way for audiences to crave a Larson who can craft music in those idioms authentically and with good craft. I hope you can see where I'm coming from and don't think I'm being "dishonest" anymore.

[@joshuadarichuk7334]

Mamma mia and Moulin rouge were both significantly better than &Juliet. The song mamma mia also does make sense lyrically for the musical, I don't understand this take.

[@HowardHoMusic]

The take was not that the lyrics don't make sense. The take was that some people could sense the effort it required to make those lyrics make sense. For example, the lyrics of Mamma Mia are often changed from the original ABBA version to make them work better. &Juliet changes lyrics too but less frequently, which means the songs have to work more seamlessly with the story. Of course all writing requires effort, but some writers pride themselves on hiding that effort so as to not call attention to it. And it's not necessarily a knock on Mamma Mia which is beloved and clearly works for what it's trying to do.

[@VickyG212]

You know... To each their own. But to analise this musical comparing it to Sondheim? Ouch

[@HowardHoMusic]

LOL...if you're gonna compare it something, why not the best?

[@fightmefairy]

I can appreciate the work and craftiness that has gone into creating &Juliet, I just cannot stand anymore Romeo and Juliet retellings. 99% percent of the time they miss the mark. Juliet's age and being a child is very much central to the story. The idea that her parents would send her away to a convent when it was established that her father very much still saw Juliet as a child just does not hit for me. Juliet is one of the only character's who has her age explicitly said in the story and her father deems her to young to be engaged much less to a much older man. This show misses who Shakespeare was as a writer, turns him into a jerk who just won't listen to his wife's opinions when, in my analysis, Romeo and Juliet encapsulates a lot of the feelings of being a young teen girl. She makes brass stupid decisions, as does Romeo, she's worried about the path of her life, and the decisions she will not get to make. I am just so tired of Romeo and Juliet retellings.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Hey that's fair. Obviously they took a lot of liberties with the source material and with who Shakespeare and Anne Hathaway were. I can see that it would be upsetting if you felt it went too far with creative license.

[@CiaoRooster]

Howard, I’ve gotta say this is not the level of insight you usually bring to your analyses. Loneliness is not an ingenious theme-pop music is really only ever about three things-having a romantic partner, loosing a romantic partner, and partying. The concept of loneliness is basically baked into the genre, not some grand mystery whose depths Martin plumbs. And “way” is not a leitmotif. To even think of it in comparison to the beans motif, which pervades melodies, inversion, intros, outros, in different tempos, rhythms, and narrative contexts, is just laughable. Of course, musicals can accommodate many vernaculars. But you believe your own argument. Holla bombed (putting potential latent racism of bankable Broadway audiences to the side), not because it was Hip Hop, but because it suffers from the inane problems of all jukebox musicals. Hamilton, an actual musical, used hip hop with no trepidation or obstacles. You mention that May and Frankie are so named “just so” the lyrics make sense. Doing something “just” for any reason violates Less is More rather flagrantly. You have artistic choices being made for a single reason. These small (lesser) choices should be doing more things, having more resonances. And while winks and nods are fine, and do happen throughout the cannon, these fourth wall breaking moments need to be used sparingly so as to not wear out their welcome. Changing that way to Anne Hathaway (when Hath’way would at least fit the melodic line) is a cringing groaner, not an ingenious recontextualization. And changing the lyrics at all should be seen as a defeat on the premise of using pre-existing songs, not a triumph. Finally, representation matters and featuring trans actors in trans roles is fantastic. But is Not a Girl, regardless of context, really the best way for the character to express what they need to express? The best theatre will use details and specificity. Where are the songs about Swedish matrons lamenting how romantic connections are unsustainable and moreover unsustaining compared to a more transactional nature of sex and companionship-now that’s a ballad. & Juliet does not fix the jukebox musical, it just appeals to a different demographic than that which listens to ABBA.

[@HowardHoMusic]

Hey, thanks for the response and for watching. I think you make some good points, so I wanted to clarify what the goal with the video was. I fully understand this won't be everyone's cup of tea, and in fact, it's not my cup of tea either! I've never covered a jukebox musical on this channel before for a reason! First of all, yes, I agree that "way" and "loneliness" are not full on traditional leitmotifs. I wasn't saying that they were, but in terms of a jukebox musical, it goes much further toward a leitmotif than you'd expect. That's all I meant. Obviously it can't compare to an original score in terms of specificity, but the fact that it tries is admirable in a way. Secondly, I don't think doing something "just" to make the lyrics work violates anything. It is about making choices and making a choice to name someone a certain way is a similar impulse as Sondheim playing around with the name Bobby or Lin calling the family Rosario because it rhymes with barrio. And it's because &Juliet chose to largely keep the lyrics intact that the few changes to the lyrics that do occur carry more weight and are more carefully chosen as a result. Third, the vernacular point was never that hiphop couldn't work or that Holler flopped due to people hating hiphop. As a Hamilton nerd, I'm sure you realize that's not what I was saying. My point was that the perception at the time, even just a year before Hamilton, was that hiphop had to prove itself as a genre. And the reason for that was the divide that I spoke about. The way it flopped or didn't succeed is another story and one I'm not qualified to discuss since I never got to see the show. Finally, I never said &Juliet "fixes" the jukebox musical. "Fix" implies it's broken. Lots of people like them, so I wouldn't go so far as to denigrate their love of them. But there are inherent struggles that the jukebox musical has. What I meant is that &Juliet had its own way of solving the problems inherent in the form. Solutions are different, because like a math problem where there could be multiple solutions, this show figured out its own way forward. Whether those solutions are sufficient or not is up to you to decide, but they did grapple with those issues and I think represent progress. I appreciate the dialogue, and I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

[@raheemfielder-bey998]

It’s still not a great show tbh! The script is witty and the arrangements slap, the show just panders WAY TOO MUCH to a younger type of audience.

[@HowardHoMusic]

It's not for everyone. At least you gave it a try.

[@garethjd78]

Jukebox musicals are mostly awful - musicals for I’m