The Problem With Mindfulness | Therapist Explains How It Can Backfire

[@DiscordBeing]

With mindfulness being promoted as a primary treatment for CPTSD, especially as an autistic person, I felt like it was just punishing me by forcing me to be present when being present feels like violence.

[@jenromano19]

Yes!! I feel exactly the same way (AuDHD person). Thank you for putting it so clearly. I love "being present feels like violence." It 100% does.

[@staci5232]

This. Like, I have autism. I'm already too aware of certain sensations. WHY would you prescribe me becoming uncomfortably aware of additional sensory stimuli?!

[@oliviacase6417]

AuDHDer here. I find that the best way through these moments is distraction. Distract myself through video games, going on a walk, reading, anything to get my mind off of what I'm feeling. When my body is out of that fight or flight mode, I'm in a much better place to address what was making me feel that way.

[@takethesoup]

Oh yeah. When mindfulness stuff is always like “take note of the all of the textures and sounds and smells around you” I’m like GOD NO that sounds awful!

[@SirSpenace]

Same. My birthday is 9/11 and I watched the events happen live on my 11th birthday. No amount of "mindfulness" can get a person out of that sort of "uncanny valley", where life itself seems almost inhuman. I can say that at the age of 34 I've finally started to unravel the web through building community, leaning into creative outlets, and just letting myself be. In my experiences with CPTSD, the only true remedy has been time. Time to let yourself experience more, time to learn where your boundaries are, time to allow yourself to be vulnerable again because that experience was taken too soon. Time to learn that scars are no sign of failure, they're your body's incessant desire to live.

[@burns_o_matic]

As a person who suffers from chronic pain/fibromyalgia, I do not want to be present in my body; my body f*ucking hurts! The last thing I want to do is observe my body/go into all of the areas of my body, because I am trying desperately to not focus on my pain.

[@foxydorito4741]

I relate to this so much! Especially with the focus on breathing, it often hurts or is uncomfortable for me to take a deep breath so focusing on it is definitely not a grounding or peaceful experience. Meditation still can help me to release the anxiety and stress that makes my pain worse. So I focus on my mind and relaxing my muscles as much as possible so I’m not holding onto unnecessary tension. Meditation and doing some gentle stretches/movements is grounding, and can help me redirect my focus to things that feel good in my body so it doesn’t feel like one big aggravated nerve. But yeah, I totally feel you. Focusing on the pain only makes it worse.

[@lanaeglover818]

Glad to see this already said, chronic pain makes mindfulness excruciating

[@piapedersen]

So much this!!

[@logically-pastel1795]

This! But for me personally I do feel it's a little bit helpful because I do need to be able to communicate with doctors about what hurts in order to get help. So it's complicated

[@d.d.d.a.a.a.n.n.n]

exactly. I wrote a comment that's almost identical to yours before I saw what you'd written because mindfulness was NOT good, it was harmful to me. I've had to painstakingly learn to feel safe in my body, without the need to focus on the body the way mindfulness does

[@mackie490]

As an intellectualizer and procrastinator, my flavor of mindfulness is me actually paying attention to my emotions about a thing/topic/person and focusing on them instead of explaining away the feeling. Like yeah, I am angry! I should say something to that person. Or, yeah, I'm annoyed! I should get up and change my environment instead of coping with the one I'm in. Something like that.

[@toni2309]

@@mackie490 Yeah, I personally tend to focus on specific sensations of feelings, sometimes generally trying to gain environmental awareness, sometimes sensations I enjoy. My mindfulness is often tied to more practical things to aid me what I'm doing. I can't focus "on the sounds" as that would overwhelm me as an autistic person, and focussing on my breathing can dissociate me from my body so it's not always the best option.

[@darkacadpresenceinblood]

exactly what i do now!

[@smawrtygowty5269]

I’m learning this.

[@emilymartinez6061]

Yeah I feel like we need to be mindful with feelings and emotions rather than thoughts cause thoughts are random

[@enclumette]

I was gonna say, as my response to CPTSD has been very heavy on the disassociation front, I have a tendency to completely ignore my own body cues and feelings and then it's surprised pikachu when those feelings make themselves known despite me ignoring them. Mindfulness can be helpful, and has been very helpful for me in this context, however just like antibiotics, it works best when it has a purpose and a target where there's a desired result. It also involves things not typically presented as mindfulness like being present in the moment and in my body. I agree with Mickey that as blanket advice it's really not helpful especially when people are experiencing emotional overwhelm; sometimes those people are feeling their feelings too much and need some skills around being able to pump the brakes on the body's autonomic and automatic responses.

[@atomiccrouton]

I feel like mindfulness has turned into rebranded toxic positivity. What I do use mindfulness for is gaining awareness of things that bring joy to my life. I got stuck in what I "should" be as a person instead of what I wanted and what I liked. However if I use it for literally anything else, it can turn into doom spiraling so you know... that's not great lol. In that case, I have to find someway to disengage. I feel like the conversation is it's all or nothing and it's like... people don't work like that so why am I doing that to myself?

[@duhnay]

Oh I love this comment SO MUCH. Licensed social worker here and I approve of this message 🫶

[@darkacadpresenceinblood]

that's a great way to do it, figure out the parts that are useful to you and avoid the rest

[@wmd40]

100% agree. it's feels like it's part of the stoicism people are increasingly forced to accept is the only normal and acceptable way to act in all situations. which is part of patriarchy frankly, to them it means male is seen as stoic and female is hysteric. so therefore stoic is calm and good and right and hysteric is not calm and bad and wrong. it's soooo insidious. I'm glad to finally know other people feel the same way about it.

[@anpe4970]

100% agree! Mindfullness really helped me focus on what I want and not what I think people think I should want. But, I have tried mindfullness in other areas of my life and it did nothing good gor me.

[@jenromano19]

THANK YOU for saying this! Mindfulness has absolutely made me feel like a failure. As an AuDHD person with serious anxiety/panic disorder/PTSD, it's not something I connect with, and I've been told to try harder sooo many times. It feels like absolute torture when used with my husband's death/my grief or dealing with my chronic pain. I've worked very hard to DETACH from my body in order to not lose my f*cking mind from the physical pain. Do NOT ask me to scan my body and be present in my body. It's a terrifying experience. I also spend plenty of time feeling my feelings about being widowed in my 30s. Sometimes I need to escape from those feelings. It's too much. It's too intense. I'm so tired of hearing "be present" from my grief coach. I can't always do that. Then she seems frustrated with me. Nope. Not helpful.

[@aquafractalyne1764]

I’m widowed in my 30s too. I wish you the best as you process your grief ❤

[@jenromano19]

@aquafractalyne1764 Awww, thank you. Same to you. I'm sorry we're both part of the club no one wants to join. 💜

[@Pewpewhore]

I hear you. Mindfulness techniques can be incredibly challenging-especially for those who are coping with trauma, grief, and chronic pain. For some, being asked to "be present" and feel every sensation can feel invasive and even counterproductive. Your experience sounds incredibly valid, and it’s understandable that a constant focus on mindfulness would bring up frustration, especially if you’ve developed detachment techniques that actually help you cope with physical and emotional pain. In grief and trauma, it’s sometimes necessary to take a break from feeling all the emotions at once; it's simply too overwhelming. You’re allowed to prioritize the approaches that truly help you. Grounding techniques that focus on external surroundings (rather than inner sensations) or engaging in activities that give you some mental relief may be more suitable. It’s okay to advocate for yourself with your grief coach. You deserve tools and support that align with your unique needs and don't push you beyond what feels manageable. Seeking alternatives like somatic therapy that gently explore embodiment in ways that feel safe, or even avoiding this entirely if it’s not right for you, might be a better fit. Your healing process is yours, and you deserve respect and flexibility in it.

[@ShesquatchPiney]

Here for the realness, wishing the folks here healing and happiness

[@marmadukescarlet7791]

I tried meditating on and off for years. Did not make me feel any better. I now do my own kind of thing, cobbled together from different ideas. It’s a mixture of self-hypnosis and creative visualisation, along with a particular grounding exercise. Been doing this for about 10 minutes a day and, have gradually made significant progress. Mindful meditation was agonising for me, in so many ways. My psychologist thinks I probably have ADHD and autism but it’s not his area and I’m not sure how much I would benefit from a diagnosis at this stage of life. ETA: I’ve been doing my “practice” for nearly 4 years.

[@natalierose13]

Mindfulness is a form of meditation. As someone who has ADHD, mindfulness is a great form of meditation for me because I can’t “clear my mind”, but I can attempt to redirect my thoughts to the thing that I am doing currently. I can’t sit still and close my eyes and clear my mind, but I can do my dishes and think about the process and think about the warmth of water on my hands or focus on washing each part of the plate in a routine manner that because meditative, or think about the meal that was served in that plate and how it nourished my body. I also do this with driving. Again, as a person with ADHD, I can be a distracted driver, so redirecting my thoughts back to the process of driving and following all the driving rules (10 and 2, checking my rear view, staying 3 seconds behind the car in front of me, checking the speed, etc.) it helps me focus and stay mindful, and it also becomes a fun game. Which is better than me looking all over the place and playing with the radio trying to find something I like, or getting lost in thoughts and going into autopilot or getting lost in thoughts. That’s how I use mindfulness as meditation. It’s still meditation because you’re still directing your thoughts back to the thing that you’re working on and being present, rather than letting your thoughts be scattered while you’re trying to complete a task. I e been meditating for 20 years and this is the best practice for me. It’s a great for of meditation for ADHDers because clearing your brain can feel impossible.

[@lydsfizz]

I love this cuz I’m the exact same way I do mine slightly different I just let it intentionally wander during meditation rather than trying to focus. I like the idea of bringing you back to the rules of the road as a way to stay mindful! I’m gonna trying that. Cuz I zone out too much

[@MickeyAtkins]

This sounds like a great practice! I love this perspective 💕

[@lisasophierb735]

This is the kind of 'mindfulness' that I like too. Completing a process with intention and attention and being present.

[@jacobus57]

This isn't mindless; it's deciding to pay attention to tasks that require attention. There is a big difference.

[@Pursuit4happiness]

@@jacobus57awareness is part of mindfulness

[@buttercupghost]

My therapist recommended mindfulness for me, and did a few sessions where I did it. All it did was make me aware I am in pain. Like, I'm always in pain. I'm disabled; my rheumatologist thinks I have fibromyalgia. All it did was make me realize I was tuning out pain regularly to get through the day; and that, oh crap, I'm now aware of my pain. Ow ow ow ow. That's it. Didn't help. Just made me hurt. So, needless to say, I don't practice mindfulness. Edit: As Miles Morales says, "I am in the moment! It's a terrible moment!"

[@HobbitzMoth23]

I had no idea what a terrible moment this was until you made me focus really closely on it!!! 😂 Hang in there, fellow chronic pain sufferer ❤

[@raeechil]

I feeeeel this. I just finished a cognitive rehabilitation program for epileptics and my coach was insisting that I do these body scans to relax my body. So “focus on your legs, release tension, move to your feet, release tension, etc”. I cant release tension all the way, my muscles feel like they are always contracted and I didn’t notice until I started doing these. Maybe an inflammation thing, maybe electrolytes, idk but now I’m hyper aware of it.

[@KaciCreates]

Yes! Body scans are the worst. I have hypertonic muscles that I get treatments for, where my doctor breaks up the muscle knots with her hands. Focusing on a body part and trying to relax it does NOTHING. It makes me mad when people keep suggesting body scans. The only reason I get through the day is because I ignore how much pain I’m constantly in! (This also applies to exercise. Even walking increases my pain and my norepinephrine levels so that I stop being able to sleep at night. No, exercise isn’t good for everyone.)

[@Yoodledoodle]

@@KaciCreatesdo you exercise at night? I started exercising in the morning because I was feeling extremely wired and stressed from the moment I woke up, and thought it could just be my waking cortisol levels and with routine I don’t experience that as intensely. Additionally, norepinephrine is the shorter-acting compound, cortisol is the longer lasting hormone.

[@JustJ-Me]

Oh my goodness! I find this relatable. They were constantly getting on my case about "clean vs dirty pain." I always felt like my pain was being dismissed. It's incredibly frustrating. I have chronic pain, which absolutely influences my emotions and how I feel. They'd get upset every time they asked how I was feeling or doing and my reply would be "I'm in pain." It was always, but what are you REALLY feeling?" I would reply "pain." If I had to expand upon my feelings, it would end up being how my pain was making me feel. 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@annjay2581]

Whenever I have a panic attack, the only things that helps me is to imagine myself being somewhere else. Trying to be "in the moment" is not helpful, because "the moment" is usually a sensory nightmare lol

[@amy_ambrosio]

Mmm, that's interesting Personally when I have a panic attack I focus on the present, not my inside present but the one where I'm safe, outside is the tranquil sky, or my nice comfy room, or my people, my pets who're with me showing me everything is ok I focus on such things and let everything else go When I'm in a horrible place that doesn't work ofc, those times I prefer to avoid, distract myself or introduce something that I know it makes me feel safe

[@spookyvondoom4624]

Panic attacks are an acute event and sometimes need to be treated differently from day to day anxiety. Cooling off your body and/or getting to a safer environment are helpful sometimes. Something I like to do is to have a go-to process that I can do for myself that helps me to feel in control. Something simple like making a cup of herbal tea (no caffeine though because it is a central nervous system stimulant and will aggravate the threat response).

[@krzydchkid]

I'm glad you posted this. I was beginning to think I was the only one with a problem with mindfulness.

[@MickeyAtkins]

Oh definitely not!!

[@Fr3nchfrii]

Ditto, me, relate ❤

[@CatherineCarlson-dw2qs]

Me too!!!

[@haascore]

Same!

[@claradrei]

Mickey... After 12 years of battling with myself to be "mindful" at the suggestion of therapists, while also battling PTSD and it not helping at all... THANK YOU 🙏 I finally feel heard.

[@LeftyLinda]

SAME! Oh, definitely same.❤ I finally feel heard, too. That feels better than any mindfulness ever.

[@sail.hunter]

Wtf finally someone who disagrees with mindfulness???? I thought i was going insane because mindfulness makes my anxiety and especially dissociation (i'm in a constant state of derealization which gets worse occasionally) waaay worse and then i come out of it more depressed and just being far far gone. I felt like i was the only one simply *despising* mindfulness hahahaha

[@sarah30932]

I used to be a therapist (still a licensed Social Worker) and myself as a client am dealing with a lot of trauma from unethically implemented DBT treatment . Folks, if your therapist is telling you to do something that is actively harmful for you. Trust yourself. Trust what your body is telling you. If your therapist is not open to a nuanced discussion about what is happening within you, find another therapist. People are complex beings. It should be instinctual for therapists to understand that there is no one size all solution that will fit for everyone. Please trust yourselves ❤ You deserve healing

[@moongardenglow]

Thank you. I wish more people would be willing to listen to what we're telling them instead of judging and invalidating. More trauma added.

[@annalupton9284]

I was also severely harmed by DBT. it's horrifying to me that it's considered the "go to" treatment for BPD. It made my BPD significantly worse. I don't understand how it's legal honestly, it's ridiculously unethical and punishment based.

[@TonyMaynard-SD]

@@annalupton9284Hi, if you don't mind me asking, I would love to know more about DBT and how it was harmful for you. My psychiatrist with BPD just suggested I look into DBT for myself because it helped him so I haven't heard about the cons, only the pros.

[@gman854]

@annalupton9284 I’m currently in a dbt group and me and the other participants have found it very helpful and practical. Unfortunately DBT is not regulated and only certification became a thing recently. And not all skills (or more so how the skills are explained and presented) isn’t going to right for everyone, it’s more so educating you about them to empower you to implement them in your own life. I’m sorry your experience has been so invalidating that’s the exact opposite purpose of dbt ❤️

[@gman854]

@annalupton9284 also how was your dbt punished based?? Not saying your therapist or group didn’t do that but as someone who has really researched dbt that’s the first time I’ve heard of it

[@echitester]

as a yoga teacher and mindfulness practitioner, you're spot on mickey, with one exception that ive noticed is very prevalent in folks outside the study of indic philosophy and ethics, which approaches mindfulness differently than western psychology does: realizing that a mindfulness technique isn't for you (or your client) is in itself a mindful action! mindfulness doesn't look like any one thing, but there's easily marketable versions of mindful practice that have gotten really popular while being separated from its cultural context or people who understand the function of mindfulness (to know yourself better so you can act in ways which reduce suffering for you and others) someone who says "this is triggering I don't like it" is being extremely mindful, actually. that's all it's meant to do. "that's not for me, now I know that's not for me" is more than acceptable. it's that realizing something isn't for you doesn't help with app sales. 🎉

[@gennstaa1312]

I appreciate your response as I've long felt that people who've actually studied mindfulness probably also don't like how it's being co-opted. If mindfulness can be basically anything but we are primarily viewing it as a fancy way of saying to be observant or self-aware, it's no wonder why using it as a key goal on a treatment plan isn't necessarily helpful to all people. For those who cannot simply "be mindful," therapy should instead focus on how to help the client be able to reach the goal of mindfulness and learn how to be present despite their illness/trauma/situation, not just dictating a client practice something they may be far from having the tools available to access. Hope this makes sense! ❤

[@Megan-cd6sh]

🙄"Mindfulness practitioner"🤢

[@ExperimentalSDWH]

@@Megan-cd6sh Just a thought, what if "Mindfulness" is simply being really "awake" about Life? (No, I really hate Woke; i mean something else cuz "Woke" to me, it too is another form of rebranding that doesn't actually solve problems but makes silly things take on a life of its own and distract from the work to be done, problems to be solved...) For instance in my own life, when i'm not asleep, my mind is very aware of where i am in time and space. if I could describe my "Awakeness" as being like, I can play a video game and still know my mind or body feels petrified about doing some things i want or need to in life... i know what. What if Mindfulness or what i mean to say about being "Awake" is this: Awake / Mindfulness = Clear eyes, a day or night with no fog, or at least understanding why I am in a fog. Asleep / Mindlessness = Stuck deep in a fog with intoxicating perfumes, not even able to think straight or clearly enough to put 2 and 2 together. Like, i can be totally aware i've been on a video game for hours, should maybe go take a bath or clean up dishes, yet my inaction remains. in this way, I am mindfully awake to the fact that this inaction on my part is the best i can do, and trying to whip myself into shape thru force of mind or self-talk just isn't gonna fly. If this made sense at all, Yay! If it just didn't, I apologize so please just disregard it ahahaha ^o^; Edit: I don't say this as someone with zero trauma and not a clue on what makes a mind flee from the agony in the first place. If it helps, I have C-PTSD, and realize on some level, when i just can't MAKE my body do more than its doing, by using the power of my mind to get the job done, I accept that.... ah. I know. what if "mindfulness" could just be nothing more than the art of listening to ourselves? Right down to the mind and body TOGETHER saying, "This is too painful, i gotta disconnect if you can't get me outta here, Host." Again, please disregard this if this makes zero sense at all; i had difficulties explaining what i meant without it sounding like Toxic Positivity, but Rebranded, as another commenter explained. ^o^;

[@gem9535]

When 'mindful' people tell me how to be 'mindful,' I just think "Sounds like my anxiety, but toxic positivity-flavored."

[@Ireallywouldrathernot]

I feel like therapists are always trying to push mindfulness and CBT on me even though I've told them they don't work for me. I had one therapist who did not and would actually help me and listen to me. Why is it so hard for people to believe me when I tell them how I feel?

[@Nashleyism]

I think it may be more about them than you. For example about them thinking they know better. Maybe they've been taught to act in a certain way and got stuck in it. Maybe they've been taught not to believe their clients. Unfortunately in the consequences they are not respecting your boundaries, damaging relationship, not helping you and not seeing it. I'm so sorry that it happened to you 🫂 I hope you'll find yourself a good therapist!

[@amandamandamands]

@@Nashleyism I agree that a big part could be that that is the way that they were trained. I had one therapist that didn't know how to help me with my anxiety as she would usually get the person to do visualisation exercises. I have aphantasia so that doesn't work with me.

[@skylinefever]

The people see something that works for the masses, then concludes that they can't be dealing with statistical outliers.

[@davidcrawford9026]

Therapists go into the field to have power over others, not to help people. If they really wanted to help people they would be working towards revolution not coping with defeat

[@wednesdayadams667]

Sometimes I feel like since I'm a mental patient, my opinions don't matter at all. Very helpful for treating mental illnesses lol...

[@ethevillagecryptid2293]

I so appreciate this video!! I have had therapists try to have me do mindfulness techniques when I was struggling with dissociation as a trauma symptom, and getting myself more into my body while my body was actively trying to pull my mind out of it was a terrible feeling that ultimately just launched me further into dissociation and panic. It's such a relief to know that's not just a me thing!

[@gabrielagonzales28]

SAME!

[@toni2309]

@@ethevillagecryptid2293 I've had the same experience even though I like mindfulness and found good ways to use it. I feel like usually, most people teach it in ways that are just too much too fast for certain kind of people. Personally, I usually advice people to have regulating skills before attempting meditation. Mindfulness can also mean being aware of your limits and then enforcing them.

[@smawrtygowty5269]

Same I was dealing with an abusive ex and also my abusive father so it made me want to jump off a building cuz I was stuck told to feel it and all of a sudden I was “bipolar” because I wasn’t not dissociating from the traumatic things they did to me I was reacting at the same time.

[@wrongname2702]

As someone with Borderline Personality disorder I personally hate mindfulness because its so hard to give instructions for. I hate wisemind it doesnt feel good and it makes me feel like I'm failing. I hate failing. Thank you for your content and your hot takes that arent that hot from a patient/client perspective.

[@caseyw.6550]

I feel so validated hearing this. Fun fact! We were all forced to do mindfulness sessions when I was in rehab. I was pregnant then, and the only time I would ever puke throughout my entire pregnancy was during those sessions. I like to tell people I'm allergic to mindfulness. Lol

[@Discordia5]

No woman wants to be "PRESENT" for that first trimester!! 😅 That sounds awful.

[@caseyw.6550]

@Discordia5 EXACTLY. Of course it was a bunch of men making me do that shit.

[@lasharael]

As an anxious intellectualizer, mindful has been helpful for me, particularly with sort of unraveling CPTSD and trauma responses, because it helps me recognize just how much anxiety I'm experiencing that I'm just shoving down and ignoring. I'm now much better at detecting what I'm feeling than I used to be. And with working to be more present and grounded in the moment, I can ask myself if the feeling I'm experiencing is based on what is actually happening around me, or if it's me interpreting a situation through that CPTSD lens. So it has helped me decouple a lot of my trauma responses from their triggers, and to be more aware of when something is triggering a response but the trigger itself isn't a real danger to me, so the response doesn't need to be happening. Like I'm having the response, but the trigger isn't actually causing it, past events that aren't happening anymore have me stuck in a pattern of responding as if I'm still experiencing those events, instead of experiencing the moment I'm in. On the flipside, I have watched people I know have panic attacks from attempting to practice the mindfulness techniques their therapists were trying to get them to implement. So mindfulness is definitely not the panacea it's being made out to be lately, especially if the person's trauma is ongoing rather than in the past.

[@LevadeNZ]

I'm in the same boat, and agree 100%. I started with CBT for generalised anxiety disorder, and that has made me very prone to trying to intellectualize my way out of my C-PTSD. I find mindfulness helpful when unpicking whether what I'm feeling is a current feeling or a flashback, but once I've done that, it's often more useful for me to use other tools like medication or distraction. Mindfulness certainly has uses, but it should be one tool in the toolbox.

[@lasharael]

@LevadeNZ Yes, absolutely this

[@InvisibleRen]

Your first paragraph is the same for me. But now that I’ve developed that awareness, it’s very annoying to be suggested mindfulness when I don’t know what’s bothering me or when what’s bothering me is stuff like discrimination, being poor, or chronic pain. 10:41 is exactly it for me. My treatment plans and coping mechanisms from my therapists now are largely focusing on distraction, accepting what I can and cannot control, and being kind and proud of myself.

[@JessicaPradoHanson]

I agree, the way it is implemented matters. Some ways made it worse and others made it better. I just had to keep trying new things and stop repeating old patterns and over time things get healthier.

[@jannbernabela2266]

I’m a counseling student and I feel like this is pushed so hard but I have been consistently wondering what is an alternative for those that need another option. So I appreciate you speaking on this. I’m realizing it’s simply not always spoken on.

[@fitmom0609]

Following! I’m also a counseling student wanting to know different strategies to incorporate with clients who don’t resonate with the typical modalities. I’d love to hear her thoughts on somatic work or IFS 🙏

[@frost6272]

14:50 I was given mindfulness exercises during a severe SI episode. It made it worse, I was told I wasn’t doing it correctly if it didn’t help, and I was given no other skills to help. I learned that I couldn’t trust the person trying to help me, that the help would not work or would just make things worse, and made my SI attempt later that week. Luckily it didn’t work and I found a good therapist after that. Mindfulness can be so damaging especially when it is pushed so much by every mental health provider.

[@alexacarrillo4339]

I found that telling myself an elaborate story that allows me to realistically deal with the worst of my feelings but is abstract helps me. I developed that tool as a small child dealing with SA and abuse which has triggered lifelong SI. I had multiple therapists tell me I was being “negative” but that method helped keep me here 45 yrs where their toxic positivity which I think mindfulness can fall into almost did me in. There really are some therapists that just are stuck in bad tools. My therapist isn’t and reads not only the research but the same books I do on the subject. I am glad you are here and have a good therapist since they are hard to find.

[@gman854]

@alexacarrillo4339 what books do you read?

[@crazycorgiladyus7418]

“Sometimes our desire to lean towards evidence-based practice can cause us to lean away from our clients” FUCKING YES!!! I’ve been so frustrated in the past when I tell therapists that CBT and mindfulness don’t work for me, and they push back and basically argue with me and say “well the evidence/research shows that it does”, without acknowledging that there are ALWAYS going to be outliers and exceptions for whom a treatment method doesn’t work. Most of that research tends to be done on neurotypical people, and as an AuDHDer, the way that my brain operates, thinks, processes things, and experiences the world is VERY different, and people like me are very rarely included in empirical studies. So while yes, it’s important to use evidence-based methods, it’s ALSO important to listen to your clients and believe them when they tell you that something doesn’t work for them based on their lived experience.

[@idamau91]

Louder for the people in the back, Mickey! As a secular Buddhist, I will be the first one to say that mindfulness has been misinterpreted and misapplied to the point of being unrecognizable and sometimes actually harmful. When contextualizing mindfulness in Buddhism, the most important thing that keeps being brought up is thinking about what mindfulness looks like for you, and make it work with your neurotype. As an AuDHDer, sitting mindfulness practice or the whole idea of “focus on the sensations of washing dishes when you’re washing dishes”… Just no. I can only do short “mindfulness breaks” where I focus on like 5 breaths at a time and tune in with my body, or do mindful movement like yoga or walking in nature. And 👏 these 👏 are 👏 all 👏 correct 👏 ways 👏 of 👏 being 👏 mindful! In addition, and more importantly, mindfulness practice itself is basically useless unless it’s interwoven with practicing acceptance, self-compassion, loving kindness and other important concepts that make up the entire complicated philosophy. Fuck modern mindfulness, honestly.

[@28pinkdancer]

i have literally journaled myself into an autistic meltdown on multiple occasions, before I knew I was autistic, because of the mindfulness movement. it took me a lot of research, trial, and error before I realized that being hyperaware of my thoughts, feelings, and surroundings was doing me more harm than good. meditating with a focus on brainwave states has been surprisingly helpful once I separated meditation from mindfulness.

[@GaryNac]

To be fair I'm autistic and I was in a mental health program which did a mindfulness class even though alot of the time the stuff which was done in that class was more so meditation and not necessarily mindfulness granted it might have been an okay class at the time but alot of it was meditation but not necessarily mindfulness.

[@christine.b.k]

I fucking hate mindfulness and it constantly being pushed in therapy just made me more mad. It doesn't work for me at all and just makes me feel worse, so no, I don't want to be present and in the moment. So glad that my individual therapist heard me and accepted that the first time I said it and has respected my deep hatred of mindfulness.

[@emaakira3352]

deep hatred? damn...

[@ErnestPiffel]

So if you don’t want to be in the present, where do you want to be.?

[@FMAeva]

I fucking loved you just hearing the first phrase. Mindfulness for me is like staying put while there's a fire on my door. Finally somebody is saying it, sometimes shit's unavoidable.

[@lilymulligan8180]

I find that the usefulness of mindfulness very much depends on the issue I'm facing. If I'm having a panic attack, mindfulness only makes it worse. Focusing on my breathing or bodily sensations only fans the flames - I need distraction in that moment. For most other situations, though, I do find it helpful, especially when I'm having negative thoughts or feelings. I find that trying to locate difficult feelings in my body makes those feelings dissipate very quickly. If I'm having negative thoughts, then pulling my awareness away from them to gain some emotional distance is also helpful. So yeah. My mileage varies depending on what's going on. But that's just me!

[@Daiwie44]

Mindfulness has always been a saving grace for me with panic attacks. It's the "Oh, I'm having a panic attack, I'm not actually dying" that allows me to calm down. It's a hard topic, cuz mindfulness is vague/all encompassing. I'd say that you figuring out that you need a distraction IS mindful.

[@d.d.d.a.a.a.n.n.n]

One of my big issues with mindfulness is that I have chronic pain, and part of how I deal with it is by a low level of dissociating from the painful parts of my body, so when I'm asked to tune in to certain parts, the pain is so overwhelming that it ruins my whole day, if not more than that. It's not a gentle practice for people like me, it's very disruptive and destabilizing. I've found that focusing on how to feel safe and protected in my body, and really working on learning self-soothing (that I was never taught and never had demonstrated to me as a child) has done far more to help me with the things that people claim mindfulness is good for

[@d.d.d.a.a.a.n.n.n]

I also hate guided meditations for the reasons you mentioned in the video - you're being present in the narrator's moments, not your own. I'm either getting super deep into a moment and then ripped away by the narration, or I've misinterpreted what the narrator was saying, and more far beyond what they intended, so the next thing they say is like lassoing me and bringing me back from where I was a million miles away. I always end up rage quitting. Literally rage quitting, because it's so infuriating

[@eerole]

Some geniuses in management at an earlier job figured that sending us out “mindfulness” emails ad nauseum would could as checking the box on mental health in the workplace. I had to block them because I was just getting too angry; was also dealing with father’s terminal disease so had no spoons/straws left. I still can’t hear the word mindfulness without cringing.

[@skylinefever]

I have heard that corpos are doing the same thing to stoicism. I like how someone called this bullshit "McMindfullness."

[@tabkaliO]

Thank you for this video . I had severe CPTSD and would be literally retraumatize myself doing these practices. Looking back I was experiencing extreme flashbacks a,d was being present with it. This was during the early 2000s. I emailed mindfulness/meditation teacher Tara Brach who is also a psychologist and she immediately told me stop.

[@deathguitarist12]

Same. If I practice mindfulness, especially during a panic attack, it is guaranteed so send me further into it into a full blown panic attack

[@blueregardinkwood4875]

As autistic person mindfulness and meditation often make my sensory issues worse. Being hyper aware of my body's every idiosyncrasy is literal overload hell.

[@CheekieCharlie]

As an autistic person: I tried CBT and mindfulness and it didn't really work.i was like "okay?" And when I was in an episode I tried the ways and I was like "yes all of this is true but none of it is HELPING" it felt like when someone comes up and says "it's okay" "it's not?? But thanks for letting me know that it should be okay and I'm wrong" I just always felt like I couldn't be doing it right and everything was just "oh my gogd gusus gjrishfudkwmcufjd" in my brain because I was feeling like because of me my life was crap. I wasn't mindful in the past and I can't be now and therefore what I'm doing is bad and wrong and how do I even live. Idk I just felt like it sent me into the dark downward spiral corner to rock while holding my head.

[@ambriasaunders1869]

Mindfulness would drive me insane. I'm barely holding myself together as it it. My mind is breaking and life doesn't feel worth it. I'm trapped in a capitalist hellscape that I can't escape from. I have to work to survive, but work makes me suicidal. It's also damaging my body.

[@toni2309]

Mindfulness 100% can do things worse before making it better. Personally, I generally advice people to first go for regulating skills and THEN for mindfulness so they know how to regulate if it brings stuff up.

[@wednesdayadams667]

@@toni2309 Ok but how long should you try before quitting? For how long should you torture yourself in hope for a better future? If it causes someone huge anxiety and it's not getting better after a few tries, I don't see a reason to keep pushing and making yourself feel worse.

[@toni2309]

@@wednesdayadams667 I think you'll feel it when it's processing vs when it's retraumatizing. Processing hurts, but not so much that you can't stay present and it's torture, but it is painful. If you can't stay positive to neutral during the experience, it might be more so retraumatizing. I find it hard to find words as I am not a therapist and just have my own practice from which I can say that there's a sort of intuition that can tell you if it's bearable or too much.

[@toni2309]

@@wednesdayadams667 Disclaimer: Not a medical professional, just personal opinion from experience: Also the way you're reacting doesn't sound to me like you should be doing that atm imo. I'm actually a little confused about your comment - how you took from it that you should try again and again rather than taking from it that maybe you haven't completed stabilization yet, which was my point, maybe badly made. Personally, I tend to need to do stabilization, distraction, stuff that gives me hope, positivity, strength in between genuinely opening up to my own experience.

[@Trynsa]

Between autism, severe PTSD, and constant chronic pain (including Trigeminal Neuralgia), being persistently told to pay attention to sensations was its own form of torture. I understood the benefit of it, in relation to my dissociation. It helped me feel grounded when I felt like I was slipping. I won’t say it was useless. But when the TN developed, I had to *rapidly* unlearn a constant state of mindfulness. The pain was bad enough, but being *so deliberately hyperaware* of my body had me pacing and panicking even more. I have two months that I can’t remember, but honestly? I’m glad for it. My partner and psychologist agree that it’s likely for the best, because I was so miserable. It has benefits in my illness, as being able to identify the source of a pain really helped with diagnosis. (Like, did you know that nerve pain, when you really focus in on its location, can sometimes actually feel like the source is somehow outside of your body? Trippy AF.) But having to learn how to turn it back *off* when I get overwhelmed was so important to remaining able to mentally function (as well as I can), day-to-day. And don’t get me started on how badly it interacted with my tendency to over-analyze everything. Point being, it has its uses, but it shouldn’t be the primary tool consistently offered to people who are struggling, mentally and emotionally. When it’s almost always the first thing recommended, often before fully taking the time to know someone, it can cause more harm than good.

[@zinobi]

I have had terapeuts more or less chewing me our for not getting better from mindfullness. "You are doing it wrong", "you are wasting my time", "you are not taking this seriously". I'm strong enough as a person and being depressed mostly causes me to mask less to mask less and basically call them incompetent assholes. It is just frustrating when they refuse to give any other help than checking the boxes on their mindfullness training sheet.

[@nokiddingbrainless]

Thank you so much for this!! I've been told to practice mindfulness SO many times because I have ADHD and anxiety, however, I also have CPTSD and OCD with most many of my obsessions and compulsions being body-focused. I learned early on that I absolutely despise breathing excercises because they trigger my OCD to the point where I can no longer breathe on autopilot. I have to do it consciously or I simply stop breathing until I either hyperventilate or pass out. Try breathing consciously for hours at a time, it's exhausting! Being forced to do breathing excercises again and again actually caused me to develop breathing tics, which made me compulsively breathe in weird rhythms or hold my breath for long stretches of time. As a result I was constantly out of breath, and I would get chest pain and back pain from the amount of physical strain it caused. It's genuinely the worst kind of tics I have experienced. Never again. Another thing that can be a tricky combination with mindfulness is chronic pain. I have hEDS and although it's important for me to listen to my body, I do end up suppressing a large chunk of my pain simply just to get through the day. I think a lot of people with chronic pain do. When I'm made to do mindfulness excercises I become hyperaware of my pain to an extent that can be incredibly overwhelming and excruciating. Over the years I have learned ways to quiet my noisy brain (knitting is super helpful) and ways to gently check in with my body to gauge what it needs, which I supposed are maybe forms of mindfulness, but any excercises I was ever taught by well-meaning mental health professionals were super duper not for me!

[@devsie11915]

I also have ADHD paired with OCD and it’s a literal tornado in my brain 24/7. Hi, nice to meet you fellow harbinger of chaos 😂

[@wednesdayadams667]

You have no idea how "glad" (sorry) I am that somebody mentioned that loss of autopilot breathing! I have the exact same problems and it's probably the one thing that makes me wanna kill myself more than anything else about this illness, because I feel like I'm constatly one step away from death anyway and therefore in an extreme panic (from forgetting how to breathe, breathe weirdly, too much etc.). I'm sorry you're going through this but I feel relieved that I'm no alone.

[@nokiddingbrainless]

@@wednesdayadams667 omg I totally get it, it's SO distressing! It definitely makes me want to not be conscious at times. I definitely recommend discussing it with your doctor or therapist if you can because medication (the calm down kind) can help, and I've also found stimulants can make it MUCH worse, so if you're on any kind of adhd meds it might be worth bringing that up!

[@wednesdayadams667]

@@nokiddingbrainless Thank you, but I've been in the mental health care system for 13 years, I've tried everything, communicate everything, nothing ever helped, every feedback I gave only backfired on me.

[@lizb4791]

I personally love mindfulness, it really helps me fall asleep when I can't turn my brain off. My wife, however, never got it to work for her, and she had that problem where she felt "I can't even do this right!" and it made her feel worse. Just really hammers home how theres different effective therapies for different people. I personally loved your cbt video, it helped me leave the therapist I got randomly assigned to. I told her that I dont really like cbt, and then she spent the entire session lecturing me and I barely spoke for the whole hour. Waste of my time!

[@sebAO301]

I do despise how mindfulness has become the go to recommendation for everyone. I'm in university, and I've been told to practice mindfulness every time I've tried to access support, despite only having had poor responses to it. At best it causes me to dissociate or become more aware of it in a very distressign way, at worst, it causes me to spiral completely. It's the most frustrating thing because mindfulness just feels like such a non-intervention oftentimes

[@mx.lucyfur]

Loved your CBT video and definitely agree with this one. Mindfulness can be a useful tool for those who find it helpful and it can look sooooo many different ways. But so often it gets confused with this Zen-like meditative stereotype of mindfulness. One problem I notice often is that it's prescribed but not experienced in session. Many therapists just tell a client to be mindful and talk about it but don't walk the client through what it might be like - so they get back out in the world and have a moment where it might help but don't know what it would feel like to apply and experience it. I think this also happens a lot because therapists can be bad about "do as I say, not as I do." So many therapists don't walk their own talk. I often also see it applied only in the go-inward sense rather than going outward. I once knew an intern that tried to use a mindful body scan with a client struggling with intense feelings of gender dysphoria in the moment. Soooooo... yeah... not the best idea to do a mindful scan of your body when your body is the very thing that is causing you distress. I see a few comments talking about using distraction instead. Done with intention, that is also mindfulness but applied outwardly. It's still focus on the moment, but with intention placed into something other than the internal world. But some therapists will misinterpret this as, "You're just distracting yourself from the problem" rather than recognizing it as a different form of mindfulness. Both of these also come from another problem I see when therapists don't help their client customize what they'll do for their personal mindfulness practice. So it might be walking, music, pushups, drawing, having a fidget... they don't tap into the client's existing helpful skills to bring a mindful element in. They just throw out some breathing or something. Also, can I just say that I see way too many people lean on breathwork during a crisis? Yes, we know the exhale activates the parasympathetic nervous system and that can be helpful but telling a person to breathe deep when they're hyperventilating is just ludicrous. Like... bish, please... they would breathe if they could! Finally, a big problem I see is mindfulness without any kind of follow-up plan. Like, what will you do once you have calmed, self-regulated, or noticed you're at that choice point moment? Mindfulness can help bring that pause and intentionality into the moment, but what do you do with it then? So the client struggles because they're like, "Great.... I'm mindful. Now what?" For example, if mindfulness helps a person notice their urge to drink as a coping mechanism, great. But what are they going to do instead? Without some form of follow-up plan the mindful focus on their experience in the moment may make it that much more intense and drive them right into that unhelpful coping behavior. Then they feel like a failure and maybe abandon therapy completely.

[@spiral_heart8239]

Thank you for this video. I had a therapist tell me that I would never get better if I didn't meditate, and when I tried I got flooded with my trauma. This didn't matter to him, as he thought mindfulness was the only way. I left after he wouldn't offer any alternatives. Years later I tried a lesser known technique called focusing, that I found much more helpful.

[@mc1h3it]

Mindfulness in case of anxiety is kinda kick in the nuts. Imagine you're drowning, in the middle of the sea, and when boat finally comes, instead of helping you aboard, the captain tells you: "First thing to do, when you're drowning, is to observe yourself, feel the water on your body, is it cold, is it warm? Btw, have you tried swimming?"...

[@roguerouge3]

Try asking yourself "why am I so anxious right now" instead and be mindful of what pops up. Images, sensations, thoughts, emotions, etc.

[@60oh]

1. I think "mindfulness" is just a very vague concept entirely made up by corporations that want to monetize non western spirituality. If you go to a real meditation workshop, being present/aware of your surroundings is literally only a small act/stage of preparation at the very beginning of the session. And meditation is - and always has been - supposed to be a path towards enlightement. Like, spiritual enlightement. You know, the stuff folks go to church for. 2. That being said, I disagree with people saying they shouldn't be asked to be present in their body. If you've been through trauma and cannot stand being present in your body, that means you have a huge problem on your hands and you need to get help. Nobody should accept dissociation as a way of living for themselves. Sure I don't doubt there are a lot of bad therapists out there who carelessly recommend this whole "mindfulness" thing to wrong people - i've been through the "amazing" trials of CBT myself - but an actual trained trauma oriented therapist WILL make it a goal to guide you back into your body and integrate your traumatic experiences so that you don't struggle with anxiety, depression, addictions and god knows what else. It's scary, it's a horrible thing to go through, yes, but it's the only way to get your REAL life back, not the dissociative dream you've been living. I haven't started making ANY! progress in my therapy until I found a therapist that finally asked me to sit with my traumatic experiences of CSA in EMDR sessions. I cry like crazy and it's disgusting to go through but I SEE PROGRESS. And I never saw any progress with CBT, DBT etc. The trauma is just too strong and deeply rooted to be explained in terms of reason and logic. It's in your literal muscles, people. Get rid of this shit.

[@Sheik-yo9fj]

Thank you so much for this video!!! I have chronic pain due chronic illness, along with OCD and CPTSD. I've always felt so alone in this, because as much as tried hypnosis and mindfullness, it never fully worked for me, and people promoting as the solution and blaming you for not getting it, it felt like victim-blaming. It's not for everyone, and that should be respected. Also, when you have physical pain or a CPTSD attack, the last thing you want to feel is to be on the present...

[@splabbity]

Whenever someone sees me struggling and says "Breathe! Breathe!!" it isn't helpful.

[@resourcedragon]

It's almost as bad as someone saying, "Calm down." or "Smile!"

[@zaraandrews600]

I just hate that when I was talking to a counsellor, if I didn't do mindfulness because it made me uncomfortable, that I was seen as not trying hard enough.

[@darcyroyce]

I have the same beef with meditation. It never worked for me, it frustrated the soul out of me, and so do all those who say that meditation is the solution to everything. That, and yoga!

[@mollyt6835]

@@darcyroyce yes! Same!

[@koopa7789]

Agreed! And then I learned that meditation could be like, coloring! Drawing. Going for a walk, doing DISHES, if you could believe it 😂 I definitely cannot do the whole stillness thing!!

[@devsie11915]

Ok ok ok, I LOVE yoga lol but only because it’s a fluid, slow and low impact way for me to exercise very effectively. I like the motions and the way my body flows with it. It has never been anything more than exercise to me though. It’s a religion for some people, or part of a religion. That’s awesome, but it’s not a solution for every ailment haha at its core, it’s a low impact yet intense workout.

[@middleofnowhere1313]

I used to love yoga but at a certain point it started wrecking my lower back. Had to switch to other exercises.

[@cadburyyork5052]

My previous workplace pushed mindfulness so hard and it's not for me. The one time I tried therapy he (the therapist) pushed it and I was like no thanks and he was a shocked Pikachu.

[@eloisepharmacist]

As an overthinker with anxiety - i am glad you are saying this.

[@Injennieable]

I overthink a lot and the amount of thinking I do, honestly feels like an athletic sport. To me it helps to concentrate on the breath and to be present a few times a day, just so I don't burn myself out from all the overthinking. It's nice to sit in silence.

[@darthszarych5588]

As an autistic person who has had a lot of trauma due to my needs being denied or told I'm "wrong" for being tired or uncomfortable, mindfulness has been kind of helpful in helping me remember that those needs are present weather or not someone else says they are "real" and I'm "over reacting". It helps me pay attention to those needs and validate them. But like that's not something everyone needs.

[@jbrock8129]

I think part of the issue with mindfulness is that it’s been therapized and Westernized and turned into a clinical treatment. Mindfulness is actually a spiritual practice and the point isn’t really to focus on the emotion/feeling/problem; it’s to notice that you are NOT the problem-you are that in which the emotion is arising. Any emotion should be allowed to evolve without interference, but the focus should never be ON the emotion, as it maintains the illusion of lack (and ignores our inherent wholeness). This is definitely not something everyone is ready for, nor is it an appropriate suggestion for those struggling with trauma. I’ve found compassion to be far more effective than mindfulness when dealing with practical or overwhelming issues. Focusing on approaching any situation with love helps to snap me out of old habits and find better solutions than present-momenting myself to death. (But it is admittedly harder to do when I’m spiraling.) BTW, I quite liked the CBT video. Even though I found CBT somewhat helpful, I don’t think it’s a great fit for everyone, and I’m disturbed that it’s become such a blanket cure-all in the therapy world.

[@frogonwall]

Omg!! Thank you!! I have severe anxiety and emetophobia (they feed off each other) and most mindfulness tips and techniques only makes things worse for me in bad situations 😭

[@kettulu]

I have FND with PTSD, functional seizures and a slew of other diagnoses. In rehab the main thing they're trying to do is stop me from disassociating from life and be more mindful. All that does is make me aware of everything, and I mean everything. When I am actively mindful, I open myself up to every sensation, every feeling, every pain receptor. Not only is it exhausting, but it just makes things worse. I believe mindfulness works for some people, and some elements of mindfulness work for me, but as a blanket treatment method for everyone...yeah, nah

[@thecozyconstellation]

i agree 100000% percent. if you're depressed, anxious, having a panic attack etc you need a distraction!! breathing exercises help but you can't focus on the anxiety or else you feerl like you'll explode!

[@wednesdayadams667]

Omg I'm so glad somebody said it! For years mental health institutions and therapists tried to teach me to "focus on my breath", blah blah, I always ended up feeling way worse, traumatised and feeling like I'm the biggest loser on Earth. When I was feeling suicidal I spent a month at a "best mental institution in my country" and I was forced to do multiple different body-focused breathing excercises every day and it felt like hell, my anxiety and panic went through the roof each time. When I said it was hurting me or I tried to disconnect during that time and desperately tried to focus on something else, I was threathened to be exculded from the mental health program and thrown out of the mental hospital. Ended up even more damaged after that experience.

[@paulanicole4786]

interesting video as always mickey! mindfullness in my perception has only benefitted me. that is not to say I feel good all the time when I am being mindful. actually, I feel awful way more now than I ever did in the past. but to me its worth it because I was always FEELING awful, I just had tendency to distract and avoid my way out of even realizing that's how I was feeling. which would result in like chronic depression symptoms or intense burnout. now when my grief, or trauma or even just grad school stress come up, I'm practicing really feeling it and acknowledging that it is there. i used to feel like I didn't have any identifiable emotions and now I feel so many. mindfulness has really changed my life and I'm grateful for it. but its important to note I didn't do it as a form of therapy, I just read several books on the topic and took the things from it which resonated with me. i wonder if the problem is that people don't have their own education on the topic and the proper time to sit with its lessons and then they're being asked to engage with it in therapy ie in front of an audience. i would imagine this would be perhaps uncomfortable as well as I don't learn things that quickly.

[@Aprilan138]

I did a mandatory course for unemployed people that required doing a mindfulness course with a "couch" that had a private clinic, It was awful, not so much the meditation parts but the explanations that he gave and how little experience he had. it was around lock down, so we all were e stressed and worried, most of the people that attend it were low income, immigrant people (one escaped her country bc sexual violence), 2 girls were in a domestic abuse context and couldn't escape their abuser, 4 had little kids and need quickly a job and the "couch" couldn't provide any particular help to this girls, he kept repeating that "you have to forgive the people you hate" and giving advice to not confront your employer if they are abusive or are crushing your rights. He explained that it was all in our benefit so we can be easily employed if we don't complain and smile "you have to project peace", he kept repeating, I HATE IT!!! I had to intervene in the video call to give resources to the domestic abuse cases, telephones to the associations, a direction were they could ask for free therapy and possibly a relocation... while the fucking dude was staring pale blank because he didn't knew what the fuck to do when one of the women broke in tears. Thank you Mickey for your videos!

[@Eliane-pf5nb]

Mindfulness to me is not a cure but can be the start for a cure. It helps me validate what I am feeling and not allow others to gaslight me. Like yes it helps me recognize what I am feeling but just because I did that doesn't mean I am cured and I stop there.

[@Dragonkrux]

God damn. Validating to finally hear someone else actually say the same thing I've been griping about for a decade.

[@StinkyFacePal]

As someone who finds mindfulness and meditation helpful, I'm peeved that they're thrown around as solutions for *everyone*, mostly without even proper guidance or instruction. Telling someone to "just meditate" without any easing into it, to know when to stop if it gets too much, is so irresponsible. Sometimes my pain is a lot, but I'd say I'm lucky in that I can use mindfulness to put a line around it and direct my attention *away*. Otherwise it's like staring into the sun. But a lot of mindfulness "teachers" would say I should look right at that blinding bulb and boil my eyes. Ronald Purser talks about how mindfulness has been ripped from its context and dangerously sold and applied in his book /McMindfulness/, which I found illuminating.

[@daughterphoenix]

0:08 just you saying “be present” as an AuDHD CPTSD demand-avoidant freakozoid makes me want to vanish into a dark void never to be heard from again. feels like I’m in the right place

[@morganqorishchi8181]

All any therapist I go to has to offer is "mindfulness" and "just don't think about things you can't control". It made me feel significantly worse, possibly because I have ADHD. It resulted in a lot of heightened depression and made me spiral on days where, prior to trying it, I had been doing okay. It makes my PTSD substantially worse and has set off panic attacks. The fact that my mental health improved so much when I stopped attending therapy is really a testament to how bad this is - and how harmful being told "you're just not trying hard enough" by therapists when you're at your lowest is.

[@leximarie2182]

3 biggest pathways I've seen for therapists to gaslight; CBT, mindfulness, ABA. Every single video you do on things you notice about these practices are nail on the head on the very same complaints I provide to them, and they double down on the gas light. They can't for a single second admit that when I tell them they are wrong in how I work, and that I know myself, it's true. There really needs to be more people in the field who can relate

[@ladyoftheflowers9781]

All I did was read the title and immediately thought - YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!! There is so much of an emphasis on mindfulness and the ways one thinks. So much reliance on methods like CBT, as if you can think the trauma away. There are some benefits for some mindfulness practices, but the effect size is rather small. Also meditation, as a practice, can also make anxiety worse as well.

[@literatetoad]

I have ADHD and I had a therapist get actually frustrated with me bc I kept procrastinating making random progress (she wouldn’t tell me how much to do each week) on this random free mindfulness course online (she just told me the url to go to and to do it “at my own pace”). I said “I just don’t understand what mindfulness looks like and don’t feel convinced that it will help me” and she said “THATS BECAUSE YOU HAVENT DONE THE COURSE!!!!!!” lmaooo Edit: as I’m thinking, I feel like the language around “avoidance” was really toxic for me. I was having an issue with social anxiety during grad school after the pandemic at the time, with a resurgence of something that used to happen when I was in high school-I would get too stressed during social events and start crying. It was so embarrassing. It happened multiple times in class; my advisor literally thought my whole family was dying or something. I felt so unprofessional and weird. The therapist told me that CRYING IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS IS AN “AVOIDANCE” OF NEGATIVE EMOTIONS BECAUSE IM NOT JUST SITTING WITH THEM; IM FOLLOWING THE THOUGHTS DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM GO AND JUST NOTICING MY BODY??? I still don’t understand but as someone with social anxiety, I was proud of myself for not “avoiding” the situation by going to it and leaving my house in the first place. To hear that I was actually still “avoiding” things by crying made me feel like a failure. Like, oh, you’re so right, I actually am crying because I’m a coward; that’s exactly what I thought. lol. I’m still working thru how often the word “avoidance” comes up in a negative self-shame way and this all happened like 3 years ago.

[@imjustjules]

I have had so many bad therapy experiences from therapists doing a modality and assuming it’s best for me. Then when there’s resistance it’s been my fault.. Turns out I have OSDD or DID. I see a DID specialist now. I have done plenty of DBT.. and more recently I got into somatic therapy because of a positive experience I had. But I also had plenty of negative or scary ones. I bring somatics up because it’s a form of mindfulness. They try to say it isn’t but it encompasses awareness which is an element of mindfulness. It’s hard to ground if you don’t feel safe, feeling safe. And I don’t see that talked about very much. I can’t ground independently and am trying to figure out why. My DID therapist said that body based grounding doesn’t make sense if whatever part is present doesn’t feel safe doing so. I’ve also learned from the DID community that many of us use meditation to go into our internal world. I didn’t realize that’s what was happening.. it was a bit too much for me. My parts decided they can just talk to me without me doing that. Idk if that’s helpful. I have ocd, autism and cptsd too. But DID isn’t talked about much and it’s definitely also a diagnosis providers need to be careful with, when choosing certain interventions. Different parts of us may respond differently to interventions too, so it becomes even more complicated. And I think even if someone doesn’t have DID, CPTSD has overlap with dissociation and the existence of parts. And so it makes sense that it can be hard for clients and their therapists to figure out what works, what doesn’t, and why.

[@badtvbad1]

I am terrified of my own body. Mindfulness seems like an invitation to harm myself, both by feeling like a failure, and by bringing my terror up. I HATE mindfulness.

[@zoinksbie]

Just started the video and had a flash back from a hospital psychiatrist that said, “You’re so self-aware; you seem to be very mindful of what caused this” and then I was discharged after being brought back for certain ideations. I just kept thinking- Yes. I’m self-aware, very self-aware on things, but that’s the problem. I can be aware and mindful of a lot of things, but they aren’t what’s helpful. I literally feel like I’m drowning here and need help sorting it all out. I think that’s why most therapy I never could get much benefit from. Because I would come across knowledgeable… and that I had good reasoning with how I conveyed what I was noticing in myself. That somehow meant I should be able to help myself. Thus the ball kept getting dropped. It’s been hard for me to go back to therapy. The RN3 has been my pseudo therapist that I work with. She does monthly check-in with me for the sake of problem solving. She always helps me build confidence in trusting myself more where I often struggled. But yeah! Looking forward to finishing this video.

[@zoinksbie]

7:58 : Look at that. You hit the nail on the head. I often say I intellectualize things and pathologize things to try to understand my issues better. But it’s a disaster if I’m applying it wrong. Probably why I feel that drowning and self-hating feeling. Also why I can’t agree with people when they say I’m smart or whatever. Cause if I was so smart I wouldn’t be like I am. 😂

[@zorilla0]

I tend to be a very "head empty no thoughts" type of person anyway when I have nothing pressing going on. As someone who suffers with lifelong dysthymia and a general sense of listlessness while also possessing this personality trait, telling me to do exercises to reach a state of mind I have already arrived at is of no help at all. I can stare at a wall for hours and I'm pretty sure that is part of the problem.

[@JemBlackthorn]

Struggled to find relief from inattentive ADHD and BPD (which comes with a lot of anxiety and depression) but mindfulness and DBT has been incredibly helpful. I know different things work for different people but I also found mindfulness useless at first but once I thought about it like physical exercise it changed dramatically. You don't work out once and feel great (usually you feel exhausted and worse at first) but the more I did it the more I could control the anxiety and keep myself from spiraling. Totally agree though we always hop on these trends and act like its a cure all for freaking everything. It can be a helpful tool in your kit but often isn't the only piece of the puzzle. Love your content!

[@aquafractalyne1764]

Something related to mindfulness that has always bothered me is the idea that you always have to say I feel blank instead of I am blank. I always feel like I get distracted by using the perfect vocabulary instead of actually just feeling my feelings.

[@laurenl720]

It helps me, but understand where you’re coming from. It doesn’t work for everyone. ❤

[@Minakie]

I am diagnosed with anxiety, depression, C-PTSD, ADHD, and ASD and I also have dermatillomania, OCD tendencies, and possibly ARFID. It annoys me when therapists just throw a random "Have you tried meditation yet?" without any disclaimers because I have tried it and it doesn't always work for me. They also don't explain that there are different types of meditation and that what people usually associate with the (the traditional sitting down going OOOOM) can actually aggravate anxiety for some people. For a couple of years now, I've been attending weekly mindfulness sessions provided by the company and I am really enjoying them. That's not to say they are perfect. They do more traditional guided meditations but, because I am not able to really visualize anything due to the aphantasia, I mostly just use that time to take a break from work, try to relax and chill. They also do breathing exercises and what I learned from that is most of their exercises don't work; as soon as I try to "become aware of how I'm breathing", it's like I suddenly don't know how breathing is supposed to work and either start breathing funny or stop breathing. But, when it comes to the actual mindfulness part of the mindfulness sessions, the instructor always made it very clear from the start that this was not suited for everyone, that the purpose of body scans was to be more aware of our emotional states and our body needs (Do I feel like I might need food/water/rest/something else right now?) and that the point of becoming more aware of our thoughts, actions, and patterns was too mindfully notice them and acknowledge them with self-compassion and without judgement. We do exercises like "This thing you're criticizing about yourself, if you noticed it in a friend of yours, how would that make you feel? Would that change your opinion of them? If you had to give them advice, what would you say?" and that helps you have a more objective view of the situation and not be so critic of yourself. Some of the exercises remind me a bit of that trick to think "This is just a thought I'm having" to distance yourself from unwanted negative thoughts and ruminations. We also do a lot of mindfulness exercises around emotions. She reinforces over and over that there is no such a thing as good or bad emotions, that all emotions are equally valid because they are all trying to protect us and keep us safe, and she teaches us to, once again, notice our emotions and acknowledge them with self-compassion and without judgement. She also teaches us to be mindful about the type of mindfulness we practice (don't practice it around your thoughts if you have a tendency for ruminations or around body scans if you have chronic pain, etc.); she teaches us to experiment with different things and learn from experience what actually works for us and what doesn't, rather than just blindly taking the literature at face value. Overall, I have learned as much from the downsides of these sessions as I have learned from the good ones. Even from the breathing exercises and the guided meditations I have learned what works for me and what doesn't, and found ways to either adapt the things that weren't working or replace them by something else entirely.

[@alexacarrillo4339]

Telling someone that has asthma so severe it almost unalived them many times to just sit and focus on their breathing is bad juju to me. Only my recent therapist approaches me differently all the other ones told me I was being negative. I don’t want to be cruel but I did have moments where I wished they could be stuck in my body during an asthma attack.

[@Elvoluiganto]

I think the mindfulness vs meditation distinction is very important. Ive had enormous positive growth in seated formal meditation as a person with ADHD, and it's helped me work through some big challenging feelings that would spiral me out for long periods. The important thing, to me, is that mindfulness is only one kind of meditation, and mindfulness of breath is only one example of mindfulness. we have so many other options at our disposal. As someone currently studying meditation, it is 100% not a 1 size fits all, and those in a position of instruction must be aware of that. For me, focused sight meditation was my starting point. From there, more options became accessible, but everyone walks through their own door.

[@katzrantz]

Thank you, I felt pressured to be positive about both meditation and mindfulness when repeated attempts at both were really uncomfortable and, like, counterintuitive for me.

[@mobiusscholkowfsky5412]

i have autism and anxiety disorders, as well as trauma. i tried to take a mindfulness class at my college. i remember getting so frustrated because we’d regularly do meditation exercises that people wouldn’t take seriously, being disruptive. and i remember one guy in my class would always try to get attention, being a class clown. he wore JP Sears shirts and had a joke about pronouns and misgendering on his school Canvas profile. i told the professor i didn’t think i worked well with mindfulness exercises because i have a lot of chronic pain and anxiety. she just told me i should do it differently, however it works for me. at one point we watched a documentary and one of the researchers they interviewed ABOUT MINDFULNESS said that the hype of mindfulness exceeds the research that suggests it’s beneficial. the documentary also specified that mindfulness as a treatment for illnesses can’t be prescribed willy-nilly. just like you prescribe medications that are appropriate to the condition and symptoms, mindfulness can be ill-fitting for some. i get so tired of people saying “mindfulness isn’t a panacea” and in the next breath “everyone should do it, it helps so much!”

[@TheCuteBucket]

I totally agree. Mindfulness feels like one of those things that definitely has a place and a use and in some scenarios can indeed be really helpful, but then people saw it and were like "WOW AMAZING" and applied it to EVERYTHING again, just like CBT (which I also have a mixed opinion on). I was in a DBT group for a couple years and I generally found it helpful in that setting. But it's very specifically *ONLY* mindfulness of emotions that I found useful to engage with. A lot of times when I previously felt a sudden strong emotion, it felt to me like this jumbled haze where all I could make out was "this feels really bad." It could feel like I was cycling emotions rapidly between anger, sadness, fear, disgust, etc. So just learning to take a step back sit with those emotions and observe them, like I'm studying myself, could help me pinpoint what happened, why I was feeling that way, and determine if one emotion was attempting to mask another one. For example, I (like I'm sure a lot of women are) was never taught how to express anger and frustration in a safe and healthy way. Being angry and expressing was "bad," no matter the circumstance. So I realized through mindfulness that a lot of my anger was being channeled into fear and sadness as those were "okay" emotions for me to express as a child and teen, and also into anger at myself which had led to self-destructive tendencies in my past. But that was a very specific scenario and circumstance. I hate, hate, HATE feeling mindful of my own body and my surroundings. I'm already hypersensitive to any changes in it due to trauma and (probably) autism. If anything, I'm already TOO mindful of it! Yeah, maybe it's nice to stop and be present in the moment out on a nice day in a pretty area. But conversely, I can also become "mindful" of every single annoying noise, smell, and texture happening to me in a not-so-pleasant area that I already have to work hard to distract myself from to keep going. No thanks!

[@london616]

I will never forget the therapist I saw when I was 16/17 (undiagnosed AuADHD), desperately depressed and just trying to understand why I felt awful, who gave me meditation practice as therapy homework. When I told her that trying to meditate made me angry, like so angry I could scream, she told me it was because I wasn't practicing enough, and I obviously didn't want help that much because she was giving me techniques and strategies that I was just not trying to put into place and she couldn't help me if I didn't want to help myself. I'm proud of myself for having the warewhithal to fire her and explain to the practice manager why I didn't want to see her anymore, but that experience still put me off therapy for a dangerously long time, and I'm very lucky that I stuck around long enough to give therapy another try later down the line.

[@Kikkarlin]

I know it's not the same as meditation, but this reminds me of a piece written by a psychologist about how there are studies that show that some people with mental illness are actually made worse by meditating. Like some people with hallucinations would be triggered by meditation, similarly those with anxiety and depression actually felt worse after meditation. And yet it's also similarly overhyped because it seems so simple and easy to apply. But it can definitely backfire and it's about time we started treating therapy like it's just as much of 'measure to fit client' story as many treatments for physical ailments are. The author even ended up talking about how he believed that therapy should come with a side effect list given to clients just like medication is.

[@chillyidle5960]

Literally I’m in a workplace that w e a p o n I s e s mindfulness and if I’m getting stressed because of workload it’s my own fault for not practicing mindfulness enough. This is very very very helpful for verbalising my frustrations ❤️

[@burtney__]

I've tried talkspace two separate times. The first time my therapist was great. The second time i got back on years later, I tried to talk about what I was going through at the time. Without at all acknowledging anything i said, the therapist just told me I need to make breathing one of my coping mechanisms.... hello??? I canceled so quick and contacted support to demand my money back lol

[@LullaReads]

Did you get your money back?

[@burtney__]

@LullaReads yes lol since I canceled it after like 2 or 3 days. Didn't take long for me to just be like NOPE

[@esotericka333]

mindfulness has been helpful for me personally as a definite intellectualizer, but i love this perspective. it's an extremely responsible one and really shows how much you care about your patients' individual needs. i'm also very interested in your thoughts about brene brown. i've struggled to be vulnerable with others my entire life and recently bought a couple of her books because they were recommended to me by people with similar diagnoses to mine. i'll have to crack one open sometime soon and form my own opinion, but i'd definitely be interested in hearing more of your thoughts about her work. love your color themed maximalist decorating, btw! liked and subscribed! :) edited for clarity

[@beingwithoutaname203]

Thank you so much for talking about this. I have a panic disorder and chronic hyperventilation syndrome, among other things. So many people have suggested mindfulness and breathing excercises to me. But it doesn't work, it makes things worse. In the beginning my panic attacks were worse than they would have had to be because I always tried these breathing excercises every time. I've had my issues with mindfulness being promoted as a "one size fits all" cure for everything for a long time. Never met someone who understood what I meant so far

[@elizabethvasquez7312]

Saw this on the way to my mid afternoon mindfulness meditation 😅

[@zaraandrews600]

That is a really good point about a person's environment. I had such a hard time trying to get help as my parents were really unsupportive of my autism diagnosis. Then I was also being called difficult by the disability team at my uni because I couldn't seem to connect with any of the study skills tutors they offered. Each tutor was confused why I was having issues when I could timetable myself really well, but I struggled to keep to it, turned out I had undiagnosed ADHD which no one picked up on. My ADHD had been also causing issues with my finances, and no one could understand why I was struggling to budget.

[@carolallison9685]

There was a study that came out last spring that found that mindfulness leads to worse mental health outcomes. There is a huge difference between mindfulness and awareness. I love the idea of self-awareness to help pinpoint an issue and come up with a strategy to fix the issue. But the problem with mindfulness is that it isn't about thinking, its about feeling, and while feeling is great, we also need to have self-awareness about our feelings. We ruminate about our feelings to come up with a solution to x,y, and z to fix the issue that is making us feel a,b, and c. Depression is rumination without a solution. Mindfulness doesn't promote solutions. The people who say mindfulness helps them are actually confusing mindfulness with self awareness. Remember, you need to be aware, not mindful.

[@newpilgrim]

I'm Buddhist, and it works for me, but I can see how this can happen. Meditation is very difficult. Doing it without its ethical origins may make it feel inaccessible to many. Feeling bad about the process is wholly not Buddhist - where the term 'mindfulness' came from (a stone in the eightfold path - Buddha's prescription), and indeed, if it feels inaccessible - it is. There's a certain amount of hardcore grit that is required in meditation. I came to meditation after years of therapy and other important tools that have helped me throughout my life. Meditation was wholly not available to me until I tended to this deep-seated trauma. This is not for everyone. We're not all the same. Appreciate you!

[@beingilluminous]

I have accepted the path to where I am now was having to move through the pain that my body holds onto, daily, came through mindfulness. It’s not easy to feel and release feelings, it’s nearly impossible when AuHD and fibromyalgia means it’s always part of the experience. It’s important to find the options that work. And for me, this is what I have to live with otherwise I’ll disassociate and fall into dangerous situations. Thank you for bringing a bigger perspective to this!

[@louise6268]

I find the use of any technique as the single solution for everybody obviously doomed to fail : some problems are opposite to each other! CBT and mindfulness and whatever other technique are tools, which is morally neutral, it's how we use it that matters. A hammer is good on a nail, it is bad on a thumb

[@dsl.1034]

When I’m told to practice mindfulness it feels like I am being told to pray, it is insipid-neither works. It is used so often it has begun to look like a last ditch attempt to solve , or treat a problem. As though the therapist had run out of ideas.

[@gennstaa1312]

It's much easier to push the problem back on you than it is to help you solve it so the field is trending ever further into the one-size-fits-all approaches and if that doesn't work for you, then you're just not trying hard enough BS 🤡

[@paulineiqbal5948]

I have Bipolar 1, GAD, (possibly undiagnosed autism) aside from medical issues. I get by taking 2 meds for my Bipolar, and keep on distracting my mind. I have been told to "challenge unwanted thoughts", also to try mindfulness. Both exposed me to more anxiety which i then had to fight as it hadn't gone away. With a background of 24/7 anxiety, i find it much more beneficial to self soothe with a simple, "five senses, five minute" meditation, and by distracting myself with housework, tv or music. A bit like taking antidepressants - they dont work on every one, they never worked for me. So eventually i declined the 10th antidepressant! Neither does mindfulness! Not for everyone. If something doesn't help its always best to tell your Doctors and request an alternative.

[@Daeuse]

As someone in their mid 40s who highly suspects I'm undiagnosed AuDHD but is diagnosed GAD and chronic migraines, mindfulness was horrible! The first issue I encountered is being mindful about my body brought all my sensory feelings to the surface. My socks bothered me, my shirt neck line was too close to my neck, there was too much noise around me, my head was pounding. It was like a freight train of sensory input rushing into me. Then i found myself being extremely aggitated and annoyed by the practice. It made me feel enraged. Not just because of the sensory stuff, but because it was frankly boring and I cant just stop overthinking things. To make matters worse, when i told my therapist she just completely steamrolled over me with some generic comment about how practice makes it easier and i should explore why it makes me feel the way it does. As if i didnt just tell her why it made me unhappy. 0/10 do not recommend.

[@melasnexperience]

I LOATHE mindfulness. Like CBT, it's become a "default" therapy for a lot of people, and if it doesn't "fit" you, that's treated as you not wanting to be helped, when it's more that you just need another option that they won't give you. The whole "be present and don't worry about anything else" handling of mindfulness has done pretty much nothing for someone with depression & anxiety like mine. Also, I've had more than one former coworker who used mindfulness-speak as an excuse to not do their jobs, and as the person who usually had to clean up their mess once they'd left, that made me loathe it more. The final straw was someone who blew off my own mental health experiences for calling out how cult-like and excuse heavy applications of mindfulness have become and who treated me like I told her that I had personally killed God. She didn't exactly disprove my "cult-like & selfish" impressions with her tantrum.

[@kathleen2080]

More research should be done about people traumatized by Buddhist mindfulness meditation retreats, encouraged to keep doing it even though it was very emotionally painful.

[@lapislazulis2378]

Finally someone to address contraindications of mindfulness 🙏. The psychology field makes no exception to trends effects and I feel seen knowing it's not the Holy Grail for everyone. I would say it can help with alexithymia but not with people already too much aware of their sensations and trauma. What can help me overcoming trauma over time though, is: - connecting with someone harmless, often a stranger who demonstrated a selfless act of pure kindness, such as true politeness: it increases my hope towards humanity. - feeling able to accomplish things and unlock new abilities. - expressing my gratitude towards people who were able to truely listen to me when I was in a very bad place.

[@unimaginaryemily]

So glad you mentioned Somatic Experiencing! I find Irene Lyon's youtube content adds another helpful perspective to the conversation on mindfulness. Thanks for this! Wishing you all the best 🙏❤

[@skribble-]

i have ocd, anxiety disorder, ptsd and agoraphobia. my old therapist kept telling me to be mindful when id have panic attacks or when i was starting to freakout. it pretty much never helped and made me spiral faster. like if im freaking out about my surroundings, i dont want to be more mindful of them, i want to be thinking about anytjhing but that. this explains why i felt so bad when trying to do this, tysm for this video ^^

[@Nezumi777]

I absolutely understand what you're saying. I've been implementing "mindfulness" and "CBT" intuitively, but I'm just learning about it. In my personal application, I have a creative and proactive approach. If I notice I don't like something, I challenge myself to put words to what makes me feel that and why, and then I try to come up with ways to address that if it's negative. I took it for granted that mindfulness was that whole process, not just the first step. That said, if one of my friends asks, I walk them through their problem and go through the whole thing and don't just tell someone to merely NOTICE what's wrong. That doesn't do much good if nothing comes afterward. Thank you for your work! ❤

[@sammichbread]

THIS IS SO VALIDATING OMG my last therapist was very into dbt and having me do a workbook with exercises that i'd take copies of and do at home, and there were a few things there that were great! but the One Thing i told her was like "hey mindfulness doesn't work for me, idk why but it just makes me feel worse" and she was like "ok" and just had me skip the chapter called "mindfulness," but EVERY OTHER CHAPTER WAS FULL OF MINDFULNESS EXERCISES TOO... idk why, but she didn't even like. pivot away from dbt or anything, she just did an assessment of me, decided that i was fine (because i was literally unable to unmask around her), and then discharged me 💀