The Problem with Race Horror

Race horror should be very good but is often very bad. In this video I tell you the specific pattens of badness that seem to plague these movies, why this is happening, and how the industry can fix it.
/ themorbidzoo

[@breadbaskets2772]

The Minstrel Ghost/monster from “Them” was such a neat concept and it looks like the actor gave a great performance, they couldve built a whole movie around it.

[@kabardino1337]

Has the potential to be the next horror monster icon?

[@corijaiden]

⁠@@kabardino1337i’m sorry as a black person i don’t think id like to see something that was an actual horror and distorts the mind of black people to this day described as a horror icon. thats like making hitler or stalin “horror icons”

[@eatatjoes6751]

@@kabardino1337 *NO!*

[@one-onessadhalf3393]

@corijaiden I think it would be cool if this character became a well known horror character, but not an “icon”. Like, not a villain that you love to hate or like a character that people can find some campy enjoyment out of and can print on ironic tee shirts, like Freddy Krueger or Jason or someone like that. More so just a well known character that’s very unnerving because of the uncomfortable parallel that can be found between them and actual history. I can’t really think of a good example of that, though, so maybe it would be better if he was just a character in this one show that doesn’t have much of an online following.

[@james-russellgause4735]

@one-onessadhalf3393 In Live and Let Die, Jeffrey Holder portrayed the character of Baron Samedi a loan of the dead. He is both horrifying and iconic; and doesn't carry the baggage of minstrelsy. He would be an excellent recurring horror figure.

[@McBaller96]

I think being black is an inherently terrifying experiencing. It's one thing to think everyone hates you but it's another to go your whole life learning that people have hated what you look like for so long and severely that they might just have to kill you over it. Atlanta and Get Out have managed to do an incredible job capturing the surreal experience of being black in America. This is our homeland. There's no where else to go, and yet we're constantly made to feel like this country is just graciously hosting us. feeling like an invader in your own home is an eerie experience, ripe for anxiety horror.

[@Diabaddus]

All races and types of people have had other groups of people that hate them. Life is just terrifying in general

[@bb-uu1sv]

⁠@@Diabadduswhen you hear a black person telling you their experience you don’t need to come in and try to say other people have also experienced it. because no, they have not. nowhere near to the same degree. it’s unnecessary.

[@Diabaddus]

@@bb-uu1sv Except other people have experienced it and still experience it to this day unlike black people in the united states. You can’t monopolize suffering wtf get your head out your ass

[@Diabaddus]

@@bb-uu1sv There are children of all ethnicities in the modern age that are kept as slaves and have it just as bad if not worse than the slaves that were brought to the united states. Big difference is that it’s happening right now, not decades or centuries ago. Nobody is standing up for them, nobody is making movies for them. I say what I say because the victim mentality is toxic for not only the individual afflicted by it but also everybody around them. It twists reality to make things seem worse than they actually are. Why would anybody want to live like that? It’s a fucking plague

[@Diabaddus]

@@bb-uu1sv If you literally just do some basic research there are all kinds of statistics and reports talking about how there is literally more slaves now than any other point in history… at least the slaves in the united states were actually freed and eventually got rights. What about all the others around the world that never got that liberation? We should be talking about them.

[@Zikomo7]

Them had so much potential but the writers mistook scared AAs for a good story. Racial trauma must highlight the subjects and authentic and courageous. It’s horrifying how Hollywood keeps missing this

[@phil8486]

Race horror gets so much more horrifying when you realize that apart from being black , there are minorites within the umbrella than of being a person of color and even the people under this umbrella will hate you for being different. The amount of isolation and fear that gives you is something no one can understand unless they've lived through it. Even if not directly horrifying, its a scary thing. And I'd like to have more characters who actually lived through honest and eye opening experiences that come with being black and a hated by others who are supposed to help you. And thats another thing i think isn't explored in horror, even though we've existed and suffered beside everyone else, it's like people choose to forget about the existence of black disabled, queer and mentally ill folk whenever they create horror or just use us as side characters without depths, even tho their experiences of fear and discrimination would and do come together most of the time.

[@jamesparker3634]

As a complete horror nerd, you have described how I feel to a fucking T. This should have 20 million views so they can stop making these types of films and get back to good horror. I just feel like in all these movies they waste something good, trying to recreate get out. Be black, scary and give me a story line.

[@Kehwanna]

As someone from Ethiopia, I love a lot of African spooky stories, I would love to see more horror movies taking place in Africa, preferably paranormal. As for black people in Europe and America (I live in the US now), I would love to see more movies taking place in the hood like with Candyman since the setting is just perfect and the communities of people are always interesting. I love old urban legends in general, like those small town ones where people either know of the tale or are in on the town's secret themselves if not the entire community. I would love to see more of that, but with minority communities.

[@thecreatedvoid117]

@@Kehwanna I was really hoping to see someone mention Candyman. Thank you.

[@valta2760]

As a white person i don't want to "relate to" or "understand" race horror, i just want to see black people tell a black story in the most genuine way possible. I'll learn whatever i can learn from that. That's why i loved get out so much (and why nope is my favorite movie of all time)

[@themondoshow]

you get it

[@Lure420]

im mixed and when it hits it really hits. but when it misses it’s just a reminder of racism while i’m eating popcorn lol

[@valta2760]

@@Lure420 yup. For example, as a queer artist, i don't want cishet people to "get it", i just want them to see my stories, pay attention to things that may be new to them and, most importantly, just enjoy them

[@lavishmisfittink3214]

Love this comment

[@calebthornblad1831]

I 100% agree

[@shmuelhoit7118]

I love the conclusion of "stop making these movies for white people" so much. There are some many reportedly seminal pieces on the topic of race that, well, made for white people doesn't seem wholly accurate, maybe a Bell Hooks-esque white liberal. Hamilton, Antebellum, and honestly that Harriet Tubman movie as well seem to want to talk about a system of white supremacy, but can't help but, at least lightly, forgive modern society. The Harriet movie emphasized one small part of her actual life, the son of the plantation owner, into the full blown antagonist that the movie is center around. To almost reassure that the system of white supremacy wasn't the problem, it was wholly evil people that can be removed from power. The real horror of white supremacy that I think the Harriet movie could have grappled with is the uncaring of the average citizen towards their evil. They don't love or hate it, its just life to do immense harm to a specific group of people. But these movies, while still good imo, give one evil person to thrust all faults if the world on instead of like, the system man

[@themorbidzoo]

I think Hollywood fails to portray systemic issues accurately because the entire Classical Hollywood mode of storytelling depends on an obsession with an individual's cause and effect, itself an artifact of the film industry having been developed in tandem with the huge push toward modern capitalism. We have no cultural standard with which to understand, letalone portray, a problem that is communal and not individual, and Hollywood has no interest in helping develop one, because that would be risky risky business. Ugh, I didn't see the Harriet movie but you're one of many people to tell me it was kind of a trainwreck.

[@bennygerow]

So well said!

[@shmuelhoit7118]

@@themorbidzoo abit late but the internet is eternal so fuck it. It may just be a limitation of story as a medium in not truly being able to recount a.) History and b.) Systemic oppression well (or at least accurately) because like you said, stories are character driven. Well maybe its not im just struggling to picture a story that lacks a character. I love Peele's Get Out, but the analogy he created for the modern neoliberal white supremacy is almost entirely dismantled. And that's the point, but to accurately portray the analogy the writer would have to somehow make all of Chris's actions mute to the whole system. I'm not saying Get Out would improve with a post credit zoom out of hundreds of government endorsed fully staffed brain switching operating rooms across the country. I guess when I see this particularly problem in a story about race I can't necessarily fault them. Its just a nature of story I guess. Also watch Candyman, the original I haven't seen the new one so don't blame me if its bad, but if its really good I reccomended it from the get go

[@henryhen76543]

Allow me to introduce something so sorely lacking from "art", discourse, and ideas created by and for upper-middle-class liberal white women: REALISM. The fluff which inhabits the heads of pitiable "social justice warriors" is fantasy and idealism. First give me an ACCURATE and WELL-RESEARCHED film; one which uses REALITY to communicate its desired message. Despite being personally opposed to the idea of American filmmaking actively elevating a minority to a fame which would otherwise have been proportionate to its demographic population (a topic of its own; the white obsession with the "exotic" and the "foreign", which, injected into politics, creates some rather absurd propositions), I should have been more than happy to be attentive to a story that did not demonize the white man to a degree of absurd impossibility, but rather focused on the reality of discrimination. Upper-class white plantation owners were Christians, not Satanists; their justification for slavery stemmed from pity and charity: clothes, food, and housing were provided for the creatures who they believed would otherwise have been cannibalizing each other in some heathen ritual on the African continent. Excessive punishment of slaves, besides, was not only unprofitable for planters, whose workforce and investments could suffer depreciation, but was carried out by slaves of higher rank in the hierarchical system of plantation slavery. The real crime would have been the indifference and ignorance of the realistically questionable but nevetheless present ability of the African. Read Frederick Douglass. "Race horror"? Garbage, I say; created by and for adherents to the contemporary Western ethnic identity, outsiders to which would be entirely uninterested. I could rant and rave on for hours about the cultural, social, and psychological complexities of this. Instead I will relate an observation: Confederate memorials are removed in white urban areas, yet remain untouched in impoverished black rural localities.

[@halfpintrr]

bell hooks isn’t white liberal stuff, but I agree otherwise.

[@bogwitchburke]

"Trauma porn" is the most accurate term I've ever heard for those particular mindfucks that leave me feeling less than human. Another amazing video filled with unique insights, get it!

[@daniellewillis2767]

I love me some cathartic trauma porn. The Seasoning House is a fantastic example of this genre...

[@Jazzisa311]

I've always wondered why I can enjoy movies like the Saw franchise or Final Destination or the Cube, where ppl get brutally tortured and killed, but I HATE any depictions of rape, for example. She nailed it with her explanation of the difference between torture porn and trauma porn

[@daniellewillis2767]

@@Jazzisa311 You would HATE The Seasoning House

[@daniellewillis2767]

@yeehaw2053 I don't see why you being offended by a genre 🤔 constitutes a valid reason for "getting rid of it". Just don't watch what you don't like! Simple as That. I've always found movies like I Spit on Your Grave, Ms 45 , Foxy Brown, Coffey and The Seasoning House quite cathartic and empowering!

[@caesertullo1824]

@@daniellewillis2767 I used to be super left and people on that side stew in the past and cause problems in life to keep building. I was really only able to move on from my horrible past once the left started moving farther and farther away from center and I eventually was considered more right wing. This isn't victim blaming or anything. Terrible things happen and it's ok to have a hard time with it. But I feel like when it comes to identity the left can define themselves based off tragedy and it makes it much harder to be happier. I think it would be insensitive to call people like that professional complainers which is a term I hear a lot. I think that it's just hard to move on when hyper focusing like that. That's just my own perspective.

[@erds4113]

“Why does race horror so often suck?” Ima just put my thoughts on this before I go any further cus it kinda stumbles into something I’ve observed before. Stuff like this so often sucks because people get so caught up in the message they want to communicate that they kind of forget everything else. You all know how people get with modern political and social movements, they’ll tie themselves up in them mentally to the point of excluding everything else. Storytelling’s no different. You ever heard someone insist on subtlety when telling a message in a film, tv show or game or whatever and wonder why when a straightforward message would get the point across better? It ain’t for the message’s benefit, you can get up in your soapbox and yell what you think at passers by without any trouble. No, it’s so that the story you’re supposed to be basing around your message or themes doesn’t become an anaemic soapbox. Good stories tend to get, y’know, the focus of the storyteller. If you drop development of your own characters, internal consistency or a good sense of tone and a narrative throughline in favour of just staring down the audience and proselytising them then, shock horror, you’re going to end up with a crappy story that’s unfocused or nonsensical. Storytelling isn’t a one trick pony, and a single element can *never* carry it if every other element was left to die. That includes elements like your messages or themes, even if they’re important or you feel strongly about them. Honestly the worst part about this for me is how willing people are to support crappy media if it just has the right message for them. We’ve all seen it, deny it or not, people backing up and salivating over mediocre or god-awful projects because hey, the director said dem good words I agree with. It’s sad because the people who support that and get so defensive over these mid af projects don’t seem to realise just how much value they’re sucking out of creative industries as a whole. Anyway I got a bit more ranty than I wanted there, but I think I got all that across for all the two people who’ll skim read this.

[@themorbidzoo]

I read the whole thing. Agreed

[@erds4113]

@@themorbidzoo Oh sweet.

[@edwileo5660]

@caitlyncarvalho7637 Correct what? George Romero is White. One parent was Lithuanian and the other was a Spaniard that emigrated to Cuba. "Hispanic" is not a racial term.

[@myfriendscallmekat]

yes!!! exactly this

[@maximusprime3459]

Jesus, how do you people have the time to sit and write these...passages?

[@mynameisreza1]

Them frustrated the hell out of me. Beautiful aesthetics in every way, especially the minstrel monster design. But deep down it only appeals to those with irrational and pointless guilt around humanities history with slavery. Forgoing real characterization for just brutalizing the main characters with racial violence to garner empathy is a trick that only works on stupid people.

[@themorbidzoo]

And, most unforgivably, depends on images of terrorizing nonwhite people. Very antiracist, very progressive 🙄

[@Yabio362]

​@@themorbidzooand here you are telling me (a black person) how to feel about black horror movies. You approach this like you understand what it's like to be black its hilarious.

[@glant5876]

@@Yabio362 My brother in christ did you not watch the video for six whole minutes where she says and I quote: "I don't know if you've noticed but, I am not black. I can't tell you what these movies should or do mean to black audiences. I can and will tell you what they mean to me personally as a bi-racial mexican cis-gender human female."

[@Yabio362]

@@glant5876 yeah it was cringe.

[@wesleyprince3465]

​@@Yabio362bro never once did she tell you how you were supposed to or should feel about it, just voiced criticisms and concerns with HER interpretation of it. Lmfaooooo found the Dawn tho💀

[@guy84838]

i think there's a strategy to quell reflection and guilt by creating an extreme depiction of prejudice so that those who are terrible can look at that example and be comforted that they aren't like that. i think the movie karen fits in very well with this topic since the actress who plays the villain is actually racist irl

[@bendixanderson4882]

Love this... I just want to throw in one counter example to Hollywood's "Latinas=Sexy" stereotype you critique around 24:00: Vasquez, the smartgun operator in the movie "Aliens." I know she was a minor character, but she is so memorable that I still remember her name decades after I saw the movie. Maybe the exception proves the rule?

[@themorbidzoo]

Hard agree lol. I think Vasquez benefits from being played by a really charismatic actress. She's perfectly cast, which is awkward since she's not actually Latina lol. Weird that she wasn't really in much else. Thanks for the watch :)

[@cicadeus7741]

Agreed with, of all films, James Cameron's avatars "Trudy chacon" She's allowed to be cool and attractive, but all her character and (importantly) camera focus is on being a capable badass with straight morals. There's no useless ass shots, the most objectified I think she gets is showing how *ripped* she is.

[@FangsFirst]

@@themorbidzoo But I mean, for all that she isn't in much else, Jenette Goldstein does have to her credit that she WAS in _Near Dark_ , also known as "the greatest vampire movie ever made" (shhh, don't ruin my delusions about popular opinions on _Near Dark_ )

[@savageBB]

A film that imo seamlessly blended race politics into horror film was actually the 2021 Candyman. The story that this was based on by Clive Barker, was originally a white antagonist in urban London, which changed to America when adapted to film. That in itself added a layer social commentary when Candyman was made as a Black man. Nia Costa's version was not a re-make but rather incorporated Candyman as part of a larger Black American mythos, as Candyman is an egregore built from intergenerational trauma. At least from what I see and understand of it.

[@ahobimo732]

"You can't have a female protagonist in a horror movie." Yeah, that's why the original Alien was so lame. 🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨

[@animeotaku307]

Don’t forget Halloween, Black Christmas, Nightmare on Elm Street, Scream…

[@CP-ke5pr]

this analysis is so good. I'm a Black millennial woman and this is what I've been trying to articulate for so long. Thank you for doing it so well. We have a joke that says "another slave movie?" So glad you discussed Them.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks, glad it hit :)

[@angrykagg421]

Horror, for me, has always been about completely immersing myself into the film. Am I the lady running naked out of the shower from the killer? Yes. I am. I think the "why" I am able to do that is because good horror has some sort of human quality to it. The first alien movie comes to mind. OK yeah an alien thing jumping from the shadows will spook most people, but the real horror is the struggle for survival and the threat of constant horrifying death. EVERYONE was Ripley trying to survive. I had more to say but I don't think I said it very well. These soulless movies are formulaic and just show racism on screen for racism's sake. They lack the human quality that makes horror good and helps us actually understand racism.

[@nachtschimmen]

If you''re discussing black horror you should also mention Lovecraft Country. I couldn't watch the show but the book was incredible: it showed how the real and absolute horrifying nature of racism but it compares it to the trifling fears that the existential fear white people have as represented by the work of Lovecraft which Rufus actually pays a great deal of respect to. He''s saying that enduring racism is much MORE terrifying and after reading the book I laughed with him realizing that my experience of homophobia was absolutely the most horrifying thing I'd endured and that imagining that it was existential was just me projecting actual fear somewhere else. I hope the TV series was successful in passing this message over.

[@themorbidzoo]

I’d like to read the book and do a dedicated vid on the show someday

[@nachtschimmen]

@@themorbidzoo ...and I look forward to see what you make of it and that gives me something to do tne meantime: watch the series to see if it lives up to the book's promise. Note that it is tongue in cheek playing with cosmic horror tropes in a number of different stories about black characters that all come together in a whirlwind climax that comments on the pain, fear and tragedy of racism.

[@nachtschimmen]

@chandllerburse737 That's the point of Rufus' Lovecraft country which is not set in the twenties, but in the fifties. Note that I very recently made this realization.The fact that it is set in the rural South is part of the ruse. It gets you thinking that it's referring to that part of the country. What Rufus is actually pointing out is that awful horrifying racism is a prevalent and irrevocable part of American history. Lovecraft country IS the entire USA - since the days of slavery until today! Pointing out that Lovecraft was racist is actually quite funny because - well - he was a recluse from a small island who hardly ever had contact with people, was emotionally repressed and self-educated. Why are people surprised that HE was racist when the most recent extemely well-educated ex-president of the US is the most disgusting racist imaginable! Note: Matt Rufus who wrote the book is black so he knows what racism is like. I can only imagine what he's experienced, but if it's anything like the homophobia that I still experience today, it's terrifying and disgusting. I guess it's Lovecraft Country everywhere!

[@dudebro91-fn7rz]

​@nachtschimmen You're talking about The president who gives actual klan leaders standing ovations and eulogies right? Imagine the uproar if trump said You ain't black if you don't vote for him

[@nachtschimmen]

Is this a reply to my message; I don't actually mention the disgusting sickening racism of the former president in the most recent post you're responding to but I'm alsmost sure that that is exactly what Rufus was responding to when he wrote his book: comparing the seemingly widely accepted racism of the educated class with the comparative racism of a self-educated man in the twenties who was scared of everything and led a sheltered life. Why the fuck aren't people more shocked?! It's Lovecraft Country, I tell you!@@dudebro91-fn7rz

[@ielohim2423]

"Them" I found absolutely appalling. They showed scenes that they would never show with any other race. A woman being graped while her infant son was being thrown around in a pillowcase crying until it became bloody. What was the point of that??!!!! They would never show people of any race having a baby tortured and killed on screen while they are getting graped. Sad.

[@eatatjoes6751]

I think people just get so caught up in their message that it comes off as condescending or ironically offensive in its own self-righteous aggrandizing. Also, Them makes me sick.

[@chexfan2000]

the Tap Dance Man was absolutely terrifying and deserved a better show that wasn’t so fetishistically enamored with toxic white women. TV in general is super obsessed with toxic white femininity, perhaps because of so much of it being born out of a need to entertain white stay-home suburban housewives with daytime soaps etc

[@AmandaFromWisconsin]

What's "toxic white femininity"?

[@chexfan2000]

@@AmandaFromWisconsin well gender is ever in flux but I’m referring to the behaviors exhibited by TV characters who fall on the “girl” side of the normative gender binary, aka “not boys”, that are deeply harmful to others and usually ultimately the character herself, and are usually understood to be condemned by the overall narrative but also form the bulk of it. For instance, that godawful show “The Simple Life” w Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie ostensibly was portraying these two blonde bimbos as being spoiled, capricious brats who were in need of some discipline and hard work, but also, they definitely never changed or became better within the show’s storylines. The camera ogled their tanned legs and asses as they would, like, go to an airport and be TSA agents but just put their own butt into the x-ray machine, then push all the bags onto the ground and make someone else pick them up, then ride the cart around whining about idk boob implants or something then crash it, and blame another employee despite being on camera. They were essentially portraying every single awful stereotype of a spoiled white trust fund girl who caused problems only and contributed nothing positive to society. Or, Toxic White Femininity. Being absolute cancer, while being very White and Girl. In Them the blonde says lots of N words and tries to get everyone to be a klansman because she wants to watch the new black neighbors fuckin fully perish; the show becomes immoderately About Her by the end when she is really just being Awful and White and Girl and that’s like.. most tv

[@taeisrood470]

I haven’t watched Antebellum in a longgg time so I don’t fully remember Don’s character but the restaurant scene I found was needed. Black people, and even I have close loved ones who’ve experienced this, experience a lot of discrimination in even the most “minor” ways that some wouldn’t even call it so. Being seated by the bathroom or just not the best place in a restaurant or even not being seated at all is an experience that many black people share. Her being “mean” as you say, was rightful in my eyes.

[@Batzbear]

^^

[@purpleflows5680]

I’m a BW and it’s exhausting to hear people excuse explicitly rude behavior because discrimination does occur. The character was wrong and strong, which made her unsympathetic and added to the confusion that was that mess of a movie. While I do not share these constant stream of negative experiences based on my race that you speak of, I don’t deny that this is the reality of some. It still doesn’t give them the right to treat people poorly who haven’t done anything to them. That’s projection and bullying, which is wrong. Period.

[@Squishy876]

Being black in America specifically is so surreal that it's inherently funny. The literally foundation of everything around us is rooted in racism yet we can't talk about it. Micro aggressions are in a ton of interactions yet it's virtually impossible to explain to non-black people. All we can do is laugh.

[@general.grievoussy]

Crazy how you don’t have more viewers! Your video essays are well written and so so interesting!! Can’t wait to binge the rest of your videos

[@ACIDJAZZZZ]

Gore porn, trauma porn, diversity porn, when series or adult topics become mainstream or popular, they loose their punch. They become “normal” and loose the story of the plot, they become preachy to a subject everyone knows, they want you to get it. They become less about the story, and more about the effect.

[@punisherdude06]

Stumbled on your channel today through The Thing video. I appreciate your POV.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much!!

[@nocturnal6876]

I'm still watching as usual they always find darker skinned actresses to star in these... suddenly Hollywood remembers a skin hue for black women other than Zendaya's exists

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

RIGHT! I thought I was the only one to notice, the trend of using lightskin actress is compleately reversed when it comes to brutalizing black women and our bodies.

[@kabardino1337]

?

[@Birdyboys]

@@kabardino1337you know what they’re trying to say lol

[@aaroncio1894]

Your dedication to horror is amazing. Keep up the good work. p.s I initially thought your dress was in reference to the Shining carpet design.

[@samuelsmith5400]

I feel the best example of race and class horror that is not overly preachy and tells a really compelling narrative is the original Candyman

[@RasheedGazzi-u5l]

Good example.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Nobody acts normals in these movies. Even racist people don’t just run around yelling slurs all the time. They don’t want to get beat up.

[@grimmsby3011]

These movies always act like blacks have to hide in bunkers unless the big bad white boogeyman drags them out of bed at night. It becomes so detached from reality that these movies are just comedies instead of horror movies based on social issues lmao

[@raysadbury8907]

I watched Them when it came out and I'm pretty sure I wasn't able to finish the last episode or two. The episode that included the flashback with the murder of her baby and her SA is something that will stick with me forever. It was honestly one of the most disturbing displays of rac*al violence I've ever seen and like... I'm an avid horror and historical movie lover. I've watched a ton of movies that depict the historical reality of violence against Black people, movies that deal with SA and violence against women, and movies about g3noc*de and war-time violence. And I just... never really knew what to do with the trauma it left me with. The show certainly didn't resolve it, and we never really get any closure with the mother as a character. Which, in some ways I think this does speak to the idea that horrors like that don't lead to a clean-cut happy ending where the characters single handedly solve rac*sm in their community. But it just goes back to the question that you pose, why did they need to depict this horror so vividly?? I mean, to their credit, I think they achieved the goal of creating a scene that is impossible to ignore or glaze over. But I'm just not really sure who needed that... or what purpose it serves other than to "open" the eyes of non-Black viewers which???? I mean that could have been done in any number of ways that didn't involve a scene of intense prolonged SA and violence. I had so many lasting feelings,,, so thank you for discussing this!!

[@ernestocaro9802]

I really enjoyed the video (new subscriber here) but I disagree on the comedic undertones you wanna see on movies like Master or TV shows like Them, sometimes you simply don't need comedy of any type, can you imagine The Pianist or Schindler List with comedic undertones?

[@VoroSR]

I appreciate your take on race horror - particularly the need to make white people uncomfortable. I do think it's important to make sure that discomfort is discomfort from, you know, horror elements. I'm pretty uncomfortable about watching a black woman berate waitstaff but that's not exactly a cathartic horror, more like the worst parts of cringe comedy. Shame that's the closest any of these got. I'd be interested, at some point, in your thoughts on Bakshi, if any. However, most of all I appreciate you voicing the difficulties in not being depressed after a long time being so. I spent, like, all of my adult life until ~27 just horribly depressed (without really realizing it, of course) and while not being depressed was great it was, at times, intensely difficult. While I'm mostly past my problems with it, I still thank you for putting my experience with it into words, of a sort.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks, hope you’re doing well now :)

[@TheSnoozeFox]

"DUDE, WHAT IF THE REAL MONSTER WAS WHITE PEOPLE" yeah I can't stand this cringe bs either.

[@esther.tanis_]

thank you so much for this video! i had watched antebellum in a us history class in the 11th grade. everyone around me was like “wow that was really good” and my (white) professor thought it was an appropriate film to show the class. we were asked our ratings at the end and i was the only one in my class who thought it was just a movie catered towards white people and was filled brutalization towards black people only to bring the story forward. at the time i couldn’t explain why i found it distasteful and was kind of poked fun at for it. i legitimately thought i was crazy because i thought antebellum was ass.

[@mymaster416]

lol, you guys are watching cheesy race baiting movies in history class? Now i understand why zoomers are so crazy. No wonder

[@6Sparx9]

As an outsider emigrating to America, Americans, especially liberals are obsessed with race. All the race obsession creeps me out so it's hard to enjoy race baiting movies.

[@kittenbouquet]

Sweetheart is a really underrated movie about being, specifically, a black woman. I had a hard time understanding it at first (I'm white) so it felt like it really was made for black women (obviously I could be wrong). But might be why it's so underrated?

[@bi-bunny-gaming9305]

I like race horror, there's a lot to work with. The execution, however, has definitely been lacking. I will always say Lovecraft Country will always be one of the best Race Horror series.

[@aganib4506]

I'm not going to watch this essay, because the shows and movies that explore around Black and Brown trauma continues to trigger me with rage. However, I would like to say that Hollywood cannot even bother to make films that showcase satisfying Black and Brown vengeance, and continue to make films that continue to piss off Audiences of Color to make a quick buck by glorifying racial abvse. I just wish there was a race horror film that has a twist where the victims of racial abvse team up to avenge themselves and those who could not get the justice they deserve. A film that comes close is the Biopic of the Deacons For Defense starring Forest Whitaker.

[@zarabee2880]

Brit here 🇬🇧 I remember seeing American tv footage of something like cops where this young black man is stopped by the police They aren’t being brutal to him, in fact, they were really professional tbh, for American police he was on the phone to his mum at the time and you see the genuine fear in his eyes, he stops being able to function he’s so scared 😢 I remember being almost shocked at his clear fear. He was 19 or so and he looked certain he was about to die, I could see it on his face. I felt voyeuristic watching as the police calmly explained they were arresting him. Again, they were reacting to his fear, clearly uncomfortable as I was. That’s a reality of America & I felt like an alien watching it. That I couldn’t comprehend how a society has got so far fallen so far Race isn’t such a big thing over here (at least where I live) It’s class, and class brings all its own prejudices true, but I think the comment of films about police brutality not being interesting as horror concept is likely true, in a white lens. I imagine police brutality is a very real terror in modernity. That a police officer could murder someone by kneeling on his throat until he died, in broad daylight, on a busy public street is terrifying And though the “officer” that murdered George Floyd was brought to justice it spoke of the generalised attitude that he did it at all… he was cuffed, why not sit on his legs? It spoke of an attitude that he wasn’t challenged by his coworker . A generalised attitude that you can die at the hands of people supposed to protect you It’s a really frightening concept that bares exploration & I’ve always found horror films able to explore fears and explore what scares us really deep down. As I said, that young man…his fear chilled me to the bone 😢

[@loniloo9521]

As a black Brit who’s lived in the states as well, I would implore you to do more research on the racism in the uk, there are plenty of accounts of racial abuse from police and other systems in place in the uk. Also in my experience there are plenty of places in the us that aren’t nearly as openly racist as places in the uk because of just how big America is. America is huge so even though there’s the overarching threat of the governments racial violence, there are lots of communities to find comfort in which I haven’t found the same (at least in the same way) in n the uk

[@Bridge2110]

Black people being scared of police may be "a reality of America", but that does not mean the fear is justified, as once you control for the rate of violent crime, blacks are under-represented in shootings by police.

[@michaelwerkov3438]

That clown tangent was somehow one of the most insightful things in recent memory... how I never saw it for what it was... wow

[@Marcymeatmachine]

As someone who is mixed(white and black) ive always hated race horror. It could be something good but it always ends up sucking. I wish it could be better. Alright something off topic from that- I think something that would be interesting is horror based off of how mixed people are treated. Because im my experience. I have always felt like a weird thing to be looked at. The fetishizing of mixed people is WILD in media sometimes.

[@ferth2315]

Bamboozled by Spike Lee is probably the heaviest, most horrific movie I’ve ever seen. It stayed on my mind for days (thanks fd signifier), the only other movie ever doing that being hereditary. If it isn’t race horror then I don’t know what is.

[@themorbidzoo]

💯💯

[@KartalaBreed]

Yale made sure to rename the "house master" and one of the colleges, Calhoun College, back in 2014. Thank God. Our colleges are now lead by a "head of college," shortened to HoC, and Calhoun is now Grace Hopper. I'm so glad they changed that before I attended because I can't imagine possibly being in Calhoun College calling somebody "Master" as a grown black woman in the 21st century. In case you don't know, John C. Calhoun was a statesman and a defender of slavery who graduated from Yale back in 1804.

[@pianokeyjoe]

I am a Latino man, highly sexualized and I approve this message.. Oh wait.. 😛. Race horror.. Is this a uniquely North American thing? In Puerto Rico I did not know racism as a kid. But as soon as we moved to the mainland, holy molding batman! A surreal experience! I can change my economic status by working and studying to go from poor to wealthy in Puerto Rico, but I can not shave my skin off to look.. err RED?(blood). Cause God made us all different colors lol! Stupid racists. But em,, these movies you mentioned, I just saw them and I am genuinely scared of living in the mainland now. Its an insanity that is demonic and unreasonable in nature. These movies made me tense. The horror elements were very down played or almost non existent(MASTER). I can not begin to fathom what it would be like to live Antebellum. That was possibly a true horror story for colored folks like me coming from the islands! Fight or flight responses come to mind.. But while we are at it, you forgot "Sorry to Bother You" A truly quirky "DARK HORSE" comedy about black men being exploited with offers of a good job, and money and.. drugs, to then be genetically turned into HORSE_MEN by white corporate tyrants at the top.. Scary not comedy to me.. genetics tampering is happening and emmm? What was that experiment in the USA with killing and experimenting on Blacks back in the 1960s? Tuskegee or something? Movies only tell the truth vailed in fiction to make the horror more palatable to the masses... And now we have a movie about forcing trans/gay folks into NORMALS in a horrific way in the movie They/Them? Yuup! We are in for a ride.

[@themorbidzoo]

Mmm yes, like I said, bad political horror borks the discourse for absolutely everyone. There's a lot of race horror in other countries, Guatemala produced a really good La Llorona movie a couple years back, but in other countries it's typically the minorities telling stories about themselves in an already minority-controlled industry, so the dynamic is different. And! I don't think all race horror is fundamentally awful. I LOVE Sorry to Bother You haha, that's a movie that understands how to use surrealism to make a point. I've also heard good things about They/Them, but we'll see. IMO, stories about political and social oppression are best told through surrealism, which is sometimes horror, sometimes not. Thanks for the watch and the thoughtful comment :)

[@ladygrey4113]

You didn’t notice colorism? I’m Mexican and colorism is very much a thing in the entire spectrum of latinidad

[@robjabbaz]

28:15 fyi, G&H's budget wasn't terribly low by the standards of 1973, given the fact that it was a low-tier horror film. And audiences didn't have to 'wait around' for NOTLD because it was released several years earlier (incidentally, it was made at around half the budget of G&H)

[@joshcope9485]

Um, the Al Gore Rhythm saw fit to expose me to your incredibly insightful channel today. And instead of being confused by the mundane suggestions that are unrelatable, I was transfixed by this uncomfortable inundation of information and entertainment that I am all in for. Please never stop and thank you.

[@willbe3043]

The distancing from what's really happening by saying Black 'body' instead of people is so gross. As an SA victim I've heard some people genuinely say "Why can't [people] get over it, it's not much, just rubbing body parts together. It just happened to your body". And it's the same vein, it happened to me the person not just my body.

[@robinarkell7221]

I haven't seen Antebellum, or the scene with Dawn beyond what you clipped, so I can't speak to the full context of the restraunt scene. It could mean a lot of things (ranging from the empowering to the racist). Still, there's some context you might be lacking. Speaking from my personal experience: while at restraunts with an obviously black person on two different continents and in multiple countries, we have in fact been seated by white staff in less pleasant, out of the way tables which were specifically not visible from the entry or front windows. Including one particularily notable incident where we entered a nearly empty restraunt and were seated in one of the entirely empty side extensions directly behind the singular large supporting pillar that blocked us from being seen. Because we were tired and try to be polite to wait staff until they've been obviously terrible we didn't make a fuss. She took our order, brought us our drinks and then left for her hour break without mentioning us to her coworkers working and while knowing they couldn't see us easily. So we waited for entirely too long, as our food died in the window, under the assumption there was some malfunction in the kitchen or something. I eventually went to go find someone else working a different section to speak to about the situation. The staff member I spoke to was confused about what happened, entirely apologetic but unsure why it would have occurred- he then came over to the table, saw the person I was dining with, and his face fell as he realized this was probably deliberate and racially motivated on the part of the waitress (to clarify, I look white, he wouldn't have assumed that just from me). He was, if anything, even more apologetic afterwards, but given how quickly he realized what had happened I doubt it was the first time. So while the scene could mean a great many things, if the hostess exhibited microaggressive behavior (which seating them in the worst seat in the restraunt when there are other nearby tables available probably is) or just for people who have experienced similar things in the past too often to just be a coincidence, it could legitimately be meant as empowerment/a "hell yeah" moment. In that case it's less a matter of "berating a service worker" and more of being willing to stand up for yourself when you're being treated poorly by someone who's exhibiting racism, whether concious or not. It's a bit odd that it's there since, as you've stated, the movie seems like it's meant for white people, but empowerment is probably the intended reason. I will also say- stating firmly and deliberately that a situation is unacceptable, you are not going to debate the matter, and they can accommodate or deal with you actually getting upset is not going off. Going off would be yelling, making a scene, etc. She didn't do that, she had a legitimate reason to be unhappy, and she spoke quickly to ensure that it wouldn't escalate into a debate on the matter when they just wanted their food. Adding "thank you so much" loudly to ensure they do what you want is a tactic commonly used in certain areas/cultures to ensure there won't be a debate that you aren't willing to have, especially when you're paying. But a black woman loudly, confidently and brazenly stating her stance on a matter rather than asking politely, quietly and with deference (even when she's paying) is often considered confrontational by people who aren't used to the African American community, especially when she's seen to be "attacking" a stammering, uncertain, or otherwise 'vulnerable' white woman. I would not be surprised at all if the black scriptwriter/director didn't realize at time of filming that this would be viewed by some audiences as an unwarranted attack on a service worker when to them it probably seemed like a very obvious and frankly pretty reasonable way to deal with someone expressing a racist micro aggression in a situation you are paying to be in. She didn't yell at the girl, demand a manager, loudly call her racist, demand compensation, or insult her beyond calling her "Becky" to drive home the point the hostess was acting unnaceptably.

[@dastardlyspacedevil8442]

On the aspect of trauma porn, I completely agree. Last House on the Left is a good example of taking something awful (the brutalization of a child) and giving it a satisfying ending ( the parents murdering the offenders). I can’t, however, watch the movie ever again because they really leaned hard in both versions on making the viewer watch EVERYTHING that was done to the girl. Maybe I’m wrong, but perhaps they could’ve implied the attack. I can watch Leatherface smack people with mallets, but the SA is too much.

[@absurdist_scribbler]

Another fantastic video! One thing I am wondering is if you've seen "Them - The Scare", the second season which I'd ended up checking out recently after hearing it was part of an anthology series and markedly better than the first; from your video, I feel like it seems to have learned some lessons from the failures of the first season

[@seamesogrady8573]

I'm truly loving your video essays! This is my second so far. I first watched your "Run. Hide. Fight" take -- spot on. Haven't, and probably will not -- see it, but it always struck me as "Die Hard" in high school.

[@bloodblues85]

I clicked on this hoping that it wasn't a right-wing thing that I would have to tell yt to "not show again," and I was pleasantly surprised. Made me subscribe. Cool analysis, I liked this very much.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thank you, glad it hit 😊

[@NotreDameSentiento]

14:07 the fucking honking took me out. but that breakneck-speed transition at 14:10 (Clapping and all) was what made me subscribe. Fuck, that's so good. Hoping to see more of your work, soon! You're gonna be up there

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much 😊

[@bennygerow]

I just experienced something like this in Midnight Mass wherein it's not just that evil people are evil, they also have to explicitly say one line of unnecessary racist tacked on dialogue so the audience is hit over the head with how they're a bad person. It's like, yeah, we get it, the Muslim character experienced racism before, and the lady who's the worst person on the island is also racist too. Oh, and an alter boy also had a really unnecessary line that did pretty much the same thing in the last episode. Its utterly redundant to do that though because the lady JUST SAID her racist line, so what's this accomplishing? What does it add? Why does he say it? It's just so ham-handed imo. #clowntangent 🤡🤡🤡 OMG that was amazing!

[@themorbidzoo]

I haven't seen it! I'll need to check it out soon, it kind fell off my radar after enough time passed. But yes, sounds very similar, ugh. Thanks for the watch!

[@bennygerow]

@@themorbidzoo I appreciate you! Happy I found you here!

[@james-russellgause4735]

Hausmeister is a kind of custodian in Germany. When I hear 'house master' in english, I think instantly of a custodian, a maintenance supervisor or general valet.

[@hayleynoellebroders8247]

What hurt so much about 'Them' was that a team of obviously talented people were employed to drum up some seriously queasy and unsettling visual horror while the writing couldnt help itself from adressing the themes in such a ham-fistedly direct manner. The total lack of creeping dread rendered so by how unsubtle the storytelling made me feel both hopeless and stupid by the time i finished it.

[@WelfareChrist]

“That idea, that assumption that all important cultural messages must either be instructive to or mediated through white people is the mean to which the film industry regresses.” Great line, totally subscribing.

[@alienoutcast7374]

The baby murder in them was genuinely so horrific I had to fast forward I felt like throwing up

[@ladonnajackson1656]

Thank you for using Black instead of using the term “African American” African American always feels so … strange.

[@robertmartin6800]

I would not call these horror films, they're films about race with horror motifs. No one is watching them because they're scary, or because they have really profound messages, they're not scary, and their messages are trite. People watch these because they like seeing white people being portrayed as cartoonishly evil, and black people being portrayed as innocent victims of those evil white caricatures. These are not films made for horror fans, these are films made to appeal to guilty white audiences, and to audiences with racial animosity towards whites, and unfortunately there's a large market for that so I think we'll be seeing a lot more of these films going forwards.

[@xTHHxAimiForevr]

Literally shocked you aren't Jewish

[@themorbidzoo]

Sorry 🥺

[@br1na332]

Another phenomenal video. While not explicitly race horror, I wondered what you thought of His House? I remember finding it genuinely uncomfortable and disturbing in both the horror and commentary, but it's been a while. I really need to watch Jordan Peele's movies again, it's been a while and my perspective on a lot has changed. I loved get out, but I was confused by the comedy and had a prissy, holier than thou response to the cathartic violence at the end, which I have a much great understanding of now. Interacting with discussions around the building blocks and beats of horror has made me realise I have a certain pathology, most like borne of my C-PTSD (and other various letters), that seeks the catharsis of trauma, but doesn't understand or trust the breaking of tension and resolution inherent in the basics DNA of horror. It definitely gives me something to be more inquisitive about when reflecting on movies lol. Damn, I was really going to try and leave a much shorter comment. I can't overlook how cool that garment is (whenever I guess top or dress it always seems to be the opposite), I am jealous.

[@Runenut]

not gonna lie, i didn't really love Get Out. i understand its message (or at least, i think i do) as well as the theory behind it and the imagery that expresses it. on a whole, it's a pretty damn good movie, but i could not in good conscience place it too high up on my "best movies" list. the main reason is that the main character, specifically the reason why he is desired, is not all that believable. i remember the old guy claiming he desired the main character's eye, and had seen all his gorgeous photos in galleries or whatever. we didn't see these galleries, mind you. we also didn't see photography being a significant part of his personality or his interests; he merely carried around a camera and snapped some lazy pictures of the woods surrounding the home. at least, that is what is the most memorable to me. why is he so desired, not for his skin, but for his skill (obviously an equally shallow excuse parading as "color-blind"), but his actual skill is never demonstrated? the grandparents also stuck out to me as being particularly ridiculous. as the viewer, there is nothing insidious about the grandma turning off his phone every day or the grandpa running circles in the backyard, especially after his encounter with the blatantly racist brother, creepy mother, and liberal "i'm not racist" father. it seems to be trying to play off of subtle, insidious forces slowly seeping into consciousness, revealed by small anomalies and inconsistencies, but then throws naked unsettling events right in there. i guess that's my main gripe; there is no subtlety with this movie. perhaps it's an outcome of hearing high praises beforehand, but i found it to be a disappointing watch with surprisingly shallow messaging. each scene was predictable and its indecisiveness in tone jumbled it up so inconsistently that it was almost jarring at times.

[@jmalmsten]

I wonder where Sorry to Bother You falls on this discussion. It's such a wild ride to behold. But is it more in the surreal satire camp than horror, maybe?

[@vicentecortes2953]

Your video essays are so insanely good, I hope you could do more... really good content!! Love your insights...

[@Mindboggles]

"There is only one group of people for whom the brutality of slvery is not obvious, and that is whte people" Well, that's certainly an opinion. As well as a statement.

[@bigbluebuttonman1137]

"Soft and Quiet" had a similar effect on me. If you didn't like "Them," this is more or a less a repeat in its vein of just bad things happening to people by awful people. So I understand her sentiment of "I just felt worse after watching it."

[@McLoed22]

Jordan Peele and Keegan-Michael Key are in my opinion geniuses of their time. GET OUT is a masterpiece in that it doesn't use fancy language or generalizations to categorize the characters. Jordan Peeles work is profound as it is a Horror in the true sense of the word, it just so happens that the main character black, putting aside the often forgotten yet brilliant supporting character of his TSA working best friend. The core characters are humanized, through humor and shared human experience. Save for the core white characters but this is wholly intentional, as their set up is to maximize the feeling of betrayal. Peele doesn't push the audience away with exploiting the race of his character to in someway "improve" the quality of the movie. He draws the audience in. Watching it doesn't come with a feeling of exclusion, but a feeling that you could be that character, you could end up in a situation like that. I don't think that was Peels idea either, I think he wanted to create a movie reinforced with racial history knowing his audience was human and could empathize with that. It's a phenomenal piece of art that transcends the creation of many movies, because it creates an inclusive premise which takes you on the entire journey of the movie. Also you don't need to have experienced something to understand that it is truly horrific. If there are white people in the US that think that slavery is still or could still be an acceptable thing, you about 400 years behind the rest of us, and that is longer than the US has existed. The problem is, people took the superficial value of the original piece and then failed to recreate it by failing to understand that humans aren't different and creating a collective experience through beautiful emotional characterization ultimately leads to something amazing.

[@zombiehunter5346]

I remember trying to watch Them, and just being so fucking upset and horrified. I kept coming back to “I need to finish it, it’s important for me to see what black people have been through”. But after watching this it seems like that wasn’t the point at all. And now I have a phrase for it, trauma porn.

[@binbats8626]

One of the best recent racial horror movies I've seen is 'Nanny' -- extremely underrated

[@ChrisRubeo]

Just my two cents here, but I think you're god damned brilliant. And you're WORLDS MORE sophisticated than the material you're critiquing. Now I'll make a little prediction... Within three years you'll not only find yourself in the political center, but you'll also be accused of being white. The former, because you're far too smart not to, and the latter because it's a fate that awaits us all.

[@themorbidzoo]

Hahaha thanks! My flirtation with and attempt at political centrism came and went years ago, along with any lingering shock at people assuming I'm white.

[@zzodysseuszz]

Is she not white?

[@ChrisRubeo]

@@zzodysseuszz Not according to her. Pretty funny, but not surprising.

[@a.p.6580]

We're all secretly all Albanian anyway

[@DarthDose]

yeah, slavery is so unimaginable to all and any white people... like all the Poles in concentration camps clearly weren't white... I know this is an US-centric pov, thus white people being more about"white Americans", but then please use this instead. It is quite hurtful for those from places other than the US, especially those places where being white is not even a relevant factor but your actual heritage. Like in Europe.

[@bigcheese2128]

You know this video is about racism in america stop looking for reasons to get mad

[@DarthDose]

@@bigcheese2128 I brought up constructive criticism with a proposed solution. On a topic that actually pisses off a lot of Europeans. Instead of calling that "looking for reasons to get mad" maybe understand it is a reason many people are mad and take the criticism? Instead of, you know, the general, arrogant, American approach of disregarding the fact you are far smaller a part of the worlds population than you guys like to think. A bit more humility would be great, instead of perceiving any critique as a threat.

[@bigcheese2128]

@@DarthDose this video is specifically about American racism. It is expressed throughout the video. It’s not typical American arrogance. They said nothing about Europe

[@rossz4898]

It’s hurtful inside the US too, most white Americans come from relatively recent European immigrant families

[@bigcheese2128]

@@rossz4898 whiteness is not in your blood. It’s where you are, and when you are. People of European descent are white in america, sociopolitically. Doesn’t matter if you’re a 4th generation Italian immigrant. Who isn’t? Lol

[@izayagenesis]

The tap dancing ghost is literally Col. H. Stinkmeaner.

[@KT-ne6fm]

You could’ve just said stinkmeaner

[@RMMLz]

*Sees a reference to the 3 archtypes of clowns in this video* *Reports "I'm this video and I don't like it"* Amazing content tho! Keep it up. As a middle eastern whose main source of interaction with the western culture is their media, I find these videos amazing!

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much!! 😊

[@jayforoughi2447]

i feel like i would greatly benefit from having the uh oh its time for a CLOWN TANGENT as a soundbite on my phone, to warn my housemates (excellent video also i love your horror takes)

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much 😄

[@bufferino7880]

Stuffiness and lack of glamor in academia? I mean, there isn’t “glamor” because academics are all poor and overworked. But to call academics stuffy is a mischaracterization. You ever had a geologist tell you how the rocks “talk to them?”

[@matthewmatt5285]

The irony is if she was Canadian she would vote for Justin Trudeau and he's been busted with blackface at least 3 times,. Hypocrisy gets really boring after awhile,. She Cares,.Yeah,.I bet she DOES~

[@budoolove5887]

New candyman was so bad lol

[@iggykad]

no tf it wasnt lmao what

[@Yabio362]

I think you watched THEM on a surface level. I'm black and I found the series powerful and mind opening not "trauma porn"; I don't understand how you can critique black horror themed movies but you would have nothing to say for "regular" horror movies. I can see from a capitalistic stand point; yeah white directors profiting off black horror but the message they portray is inherently true.

[@Yabio362]

But on another capitalistic standpoint, here you are profiting off shitting on Black themed horror.

[@S4L3MTR13]

Came here because your The Thing video popped up in my recommendations, stayed because all of your videos are amazingly well made.

[@RepresentWV]

I want to say I feel disconnected when being talked about like I'm some privileged person that society keeps pandering to, trying to satisfy, etc. Fact is I'm depressed, in hard times financially, and don't understand any animosity towards white people because there are so many like me of all races, going through it. The issue seems more to do with apparent social status/class and less about race. I also think the way movies about race can be more engaging, is through appealing more to the human element, not alienating white people. For me and many other white people in a lower economic status, we feel alienated enough already. Seeing white people being portrayed in these films as unsympathetic, wealthy, and blissfully ignorant frankly feels as racist as seeing the black people being portrayed as slaves over and over. Why is media so fixated on this image, and how far have we come as a society? It makes you freaking wonder.

[@Choom89]

Start with this--there is only one race, the human race. All these labels and dividers are social constructs. People don't even know the difference between species, race and ethnicity anymore. You're not just a color, that's dehumanizing. Ask your parents and grandparents about your real ethnicity and heritage, latch onto the positive traits and traditions and never let anyone reduce you to one word again.

[@beccak8166]

I think looking with a more sociological, rather then personal, lense on the problem might help you understand. Due to a history of racial segregation and current and past prejudice, Black people are more likely than white people at large to be in situations like yours. This doesn't mean white people can't be in hard times personally and financially. I'm very sorry that you're going through this. I am also going through some of the toughest times in my life, I'm struggling with my bipolar disorder and my father is going to federal prison. I hope you can find some community in my comment and maybe in people of other races as well. Be well friend.

[@resistanceisfutile520]

What is it with women and race though?

[@everthealtruist]

As a white person, I implore artists and filmakers to make us more uncomfortable.

[@elizabethsmith7224]

I'd love for you to do an entire video on Them,tho I must say the trailer for second season makes it look like it's gonna get better. The thing I always find hard to get past is just how cartoonishly evil the racists are made, certain things I can understand [like the class making fun of Ruby via. Monkey noises and the teacher blaming her/giving her detention], but others just seem too extreme to me,could be because I'm white but it's always hard for me to believe that noone at all stood up against all the injustice. People are not inherently evil.

[@cb2667]

"biracial Mexican cisgender human female," yep, this analysis is going to be ghey...

[@safetyscissors9281]

Love Get out because it never felt like trauma p-rn like these movies mentioned it just felt like an interesting story that was terrifying in a deep way for me. Thats what I love in horror Great video

[@Philippian76]

I would find it interesting if you asked a few black people about these movies because the movies you explained aren't made for white people. You missed the subtext of "Get Out" which a lot of reviewers have done that were not black. It would be good to ask about the culture that it refers to since "Get Out" isn't just about a black man having his gift of photography trying to be stolen from you. I understand your point of view from watching the movies without the context from within the culture. If you don't understand, you can ask the people that are the victims right? Would help to start a dialogue to learn about other cultures and the the parts others have missed. I applaud you making the video but missing the target of the movies.

[@tfuenke]

I'm Pacific Islander mixed and remember seeing the bones of a Chinese railworker that died in slavery in a museum in my hometown. There's no money or empathy in telling stories like that.

[@Tadesan]

You gonna talk about the mass forced genital mutilation of baby boys in america???

[@RasheedGazzi-u5l]

Different topic, go find it.

[@lilmochi6384]

i think circumcision is fucked up but bro this video isn't about that

[@ZackGarcia-ci2by]

Blah blah blah black this, black that. Calm down becky

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

i want to see someone make a really long video about the history of spanish representation in movies and tv

[@Istaphobos]

In the midst my novel legnth comment I got a little distracted and failed to make my main point. It’s the the issue that you pointed out that all of these movies regardless of how much pandering or signaling is inserted, are still geared for the same audience and that’s why they feel hollow on both sides of the spectrum. You just can’t fake authenticity… though I will continue to make the attempt ;-)

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks for the thoughts and kind words! That’s exactly it, it’s a problem with the structure and history of Hollywood storytelling, and by extension the way we culturally understand what a “good story” is (to Hollywood: a story that turns a reliable profit based on past evidence). This is basically critical race theory by the way, lol the development of panic surrounding analysis like this is absolutely insane and dismaying to watch.

[@ExeErdna]

To me as a black man Race Horror has the same problem of all GOOD groundbreaking horror has. Copycats and NEEDING lighting to strike thrice. Slashers, Self-shot/Found footage, the Japanese/S-Korean style, Ghosts, Demons, Deathtraps, Parody, Now Race. All fell into the same trap of people wanting something to work when we seen the setup already. How many times can you pull the Jason/Myers "Peekaboo" trick? Or the whole idioticy that leads to destruction in pretty much all of them? Or just outright copying somebody's work instead of just re-releasing it over here? Then the ghost dragging somebody out of bed down a hallway with that damn shaky-cam jump scare... You get where I'm coming by saying this horror is for white folk. Hell, you're right Tapdance man could have carried a movie alone. He and Father's dynamic was amazing surreal horror. It would have been great that the whole conflict was in his head. Since now it shows off external expectations yet also internal which is somthing a lot of black men suffer in slience. That's good horror while also bring up a good point about mental health due to stressors from within and without.

[@drunkbanthas]

Oh my Glob! Love this video. Watched all three of these and I feel the same way. Even thought about making a video on the Master and Them but this was incredibly smart and insightful. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much! 😊

[@ZheannaErose]

this episode hit! *silly horn* time for a clown tangent

[@Istaphobos]

It is really a pleasure to listen to your analysis. I was struck by the contradiction that your typical average viewer, not a racist and a misogynist either, I think movies are too w o k e now. And people who delve deeper into the analysis of the tokenism and pandering of sad movies quite rightly realize that the movies have not been egalitarian enough. I don’t like using the term W o k e because I think it’s been corrupted now represents a cancer of progressive culture. For your average viewer may not be familiar with the literature and criticism in general typically they just know when somethings not good and they know when something is obvious and they are likely to put those two things together. “Movie bad” “movie woke,” conclusion “woke movie bad” But upon deeper analysis it’s obvious that these attempted pandering and superficial gestures of equality or actually more racist than the movie had just been left to return devices and done it’s normally racist thing. I am convinced that one of the problems is exactly what you described in your video about the thing 2011. “ well we have the magic monster so we don’t have to really worry about the rest of the movie“ and that equivalence would be “well we’ve got all our diversity so we don’t really need to worry about the rest of the movie” There’s also the conflict with priorities when story butts up against the ‘virtue’ the filmmakers want to display, they will always pick virtue because that is their new priority and as a result the story suffers. I would normally give specific examples but you don’t need them. I’ve just discovered your channel and I’m absolutely blown away and I’m confused why you don’t have subscribers. Rather than blood smoke up your ass let’s just say your contact is really solid. There’s so many people doing film criticism that don’t really understand the history of film and the language of analysis. Not to mention many of the mainstream critics have either become lobotomized or simply do not feel free to speak their mind, well I don’t think I need to tell you about that either. I wish my mother was still alive so I could go tell her I actually met somebody really smart on the Internet.

[@InLovewithHorror]

And yet, we got another season of Them 😒 this video is extraordinary. I have more to say but I need to collect my thoughts. Thank you for sharing this. 🫶🏾

[@blinkfilms1]

Im obsessed with Jordan Peele's Nope (his newest movie) for a lot of reasons, but especially because it is a DIRECT response to the movies Get Out spawned. (I try not to put spoilers here but seriously, go see it) It's a criticism of the commodification of trauma in our culture and it does so with minimal onscreen violence. It's so fucking good. It's about race but it's also about the media. It's not inherently a black story but it's given depth and intersectionality by its black and Asian protagonists. It's a suspense thriller with chilling moments and most of the victims are white. The black protagonists don't get tortured to prove a point. They are proactive and rational and not sexualized and oh my god I love this movie so much

[@themorbidzoo]

Ha I see you saw my review, so you know I think Nope is perfect in every way 😁

[@zzodysseuszz]

Too bad it sucked. And too bad Jordan peele kinda sucks at writing with his pseudointellectual symbolism and tone deaf focus on race

[@blinkfilms1]

@@zzodysseuszz oh my god you really exist

[@hiker699]

How is Nope about race?

[@nehemiahsomers4141]

@@hiker699 did you read the comment? Nope is about trauma, specifically the commercialization of trauma, and most non-Peele race horror films are just about trauma. It's not *not* about race, but its more about post-Get Out race horror movies.

[@gwencere9383]

Have you watched the movie "They Cloned Tyrone"? Its a recent sci-fi/mild horror about a predominantly black neighborhood that's being used as ground for experimentation, its very funny and has INCREDIBLE visuals, I have nothing insightful to say but I think its very refreshing in this wave of mid to bad race horror

[@wildpineconeappears8013]

It's a great show! The humor is amazing

[@AzzyRiah]

I love that movie and it is incredibly refreshing

[@sincerelyzee521]

>they cloned tyrone is that a gravity falls reference?

[@GlitchBoy-ws5in]

"Don't presume because I gave you a few memories you knew my brother, you weren't really there that day... You see Fontaine he was shot, Violently, Right between interior ribcage 5 and 6, Missed the heart... Pierce the lungs... that didn't have to be fatal... they left him there, alone, scared laid out on the cold concrete, took him 15 minutes to die, You know when I arrived at the morgue, I just stood over him... for a long time, I-I knew it was him, I just-- They couldn't be bothered to clean all the blood... and by that time, it had dried up... crusted black, so I... found a rag... and I cleaned it myself... I washed his skin, I spared you from that memory"

[@Potacintvervs]

The bit at the end where the black people are being turned white out of revenge is straight up just Nation of Islam's story on white origins. The big headed scientist, Yakub created white people by taking the lightest skinned black people and mixing them with dogs and monkeys to create white people, who were made to rule over all black people.

[@blinkfilms1]

Wild to me how immediately after the horror movie "Us" we got the Amazon horror series "them". I almost watched it because I thought it was another Peele project. So glad I didn't

[@themorbidzoo]

The imitation is shameless, ugh

[@themorbidzoo]

@Caitlyn Carvalho The use of female pain and terrorization to drive home a horrific point is always sexist. We're all pretty shackled to the cultural standards of our time, though, and I don't think any subject matter should be off limits, especially for horror, which is meant to be transgressive. Plenty of bigoted art is still great in other ways. Like, have you read the Lovecraft story Herbert West Reanimator? Wow so racist. We should point that shit out and then continue on our day.

[@themorbidzoo]

@Caitlyn Carvalho I mean that horror is definitionally supposed to disrespect our understanding of what’s appropriate to see and feel

[@blinkfilms1]

@Caitlyn Carvalho it's kind of funny that you bring up reanimator because, while I agree it's sexist in it's use of female screaming for dramatic effect, the story itself, and especially that of bride of reanimator, is much like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein in its commentary on masculinity. The sequel is such a wild dissection of gender and I don't even believe they went into that movie intending to discuss it. That's a topic I want to write a video essay about some day

[@blinkfilms1]

@Caitlyn Carvalho are you trying to write an essay?

[@darrenalmgren634]

I was really interested in the Them series because I wanted to see what they did with the Tap Dance Man. He almost seemed like a deity and I was fascinated with how it could be. But I barely got to the fourth episode with how poorly written the show was. They pretty much depict the mother’s character as crazy from the outset, and half of the racism she is subjected to is often framed as deserved because she acts insane or unhinged. Was really disappointed with the poor writing and cartoonish racism of the white neighbor lady

[@themorbidzoo]

The Tap Dance Man is sublime filmmaking, but it's like they think your payment for experiencing that should be about 7 extra hours of mean-spirited punishment. Bums me out

[@Garage-wt5jl]

I actually agree. Tap Dance man really caught my attention but I also never finished the show because of the writing.

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

I have always found black k face to be kinda creepy, like in an uncanny valley kinda way, that character design really makes me feel like someone else got it.

[@themorbidzoo]

@@thepinkestpigglet7529 saaaaame

[@humansadness3749]

the moment the show completely let me down was when they dedicated an entire episode to a fucking ghost. after that episode, i had barely any hope and my favorite character ended up being the tap dance man because of how he was pretty much the best written character.