The Problem with Race Horror

[@blinkfilms1]

Im obsessed with Jordan Peele's Nope (his newest movie) for a lot of reasons, but especially because it is a DIRECT response to the movies Get Out spawned. (I try not to put spoilers here but seriously, go see it) It's a criticism of the commodification of trauma in our culture and it does so with minimal onscreen violence. It's so fucking good. It's about race but it's also about the media. It's not inherently a black story but it's given depth and intersectionality by its black and Asian protagonists. It's a suspense thriller with chilling moments and most of the victims are white. The black protagonists don't get tortured to prove a point. They are proactive and rational and not sexualized and oh my god I love this movie so much

[@themorbidzoo]

Ha I see you saw my review, so you know I think Nope is perfect in every way 😁

[@zzodysseuszz]

Too bad it sucked. And too bad Jordan peele kinda sucks at writing with his pseudointellectual symbolism and tone deaf focus on race

[@blinkfilms1]

@@zzodysseuszz oh my god you really exist

[@hiker699]

How is Nope about race?

[@nehemiahsomers4141]

@@hiker699 did you read the comment? Nope is about trauma, specifically the commercialization of trauma, and most non-Peele race horror films are just about trauma. It's not *not* about race, but its more about post-Get Out race horror movies.

[@bogwitchburke]

"Trauma porn" is the most accurate term I've ever heard for those particular mindfucks that leave me feeling less than human. Another amazing video filled with unique insights, get it!

[@daniellewillis2767]

I love me some cathartic trauma porn. The Seasoning House is a fantastic example of this genre...

[@Jazzisa311]

I've always wondered why I can enjoy movies like the Saw franchise or Final Destination or the Cube, where ppl get brutally tortured and killed, but I HATE any depictions of rape, for example. She nailed it with her explanation of the difference between torture porn and trauma porn

[@daniellewillis2767]

@@Jazzisa311 You would HATE The Seasoning House

[@daniellewillis2767]

@yeehaw2053 I don't see why you being offended by a genre 🤔 constitutes a valid reason for "getting rid of it". Just don't watch what you don't like! Simple as That. I've always found movies like I Spit on Your Grave, Ms 45 , Foxy Brown, Coffey and The Seasoning House quite cathartic and empowering!

[@caesertullo1824]

@@daniellewillis2767 I used to be super left and people on that side stew in the past and cause problems in life to keep building. I was really only able to move on from my horrible past once the left started moving farther and farther away from center and I eventually was considered more right wing. This isn't victim blaming or anything. Terrible things happen and it's ok to have a hard time with it. But I feel like when it comes to identity the left can define themselves based off tragedy and it makes it much harder to be happier. I think it would be insensitive to call people like that professional complainers which is a term I hear a lot. I think that it's just hard to move on when hyper focusing like that. That's just my own perspective.

[@McBaller96]

I think being black is an inherently terrifying experiencing. It's one thing to think everyone hates you but it's another to go your whole life learning that people have hated what you look like for so long and severely that they might just have to kill you over it. Atlanta and Get Out have managed to do an incredible job capturing the surreal experience of being black in America. This is our homeland. There's no where else to go, and yet we're constantly made to feel like this country is just graciously hosting us. feeling like an invader in your own home is an eerie experience, ripe for anxiety horror.

[@Diabaddus]

All races and types of people have had other groups of people that hate them. Life is just terrifying in general

[@bb-uu1sv]

⁠@@Diabadduswhen you hear a black person telling you their experience you don’t need to come in and try to say other people have also experienced it. because no, they have not. nowhere near to the same degree. it’s unnecessary.

[@Diabaddus]

@@bb-uu1sv Except other people have experienced it and still experience it to this day unlike black people in the united states. You can’t monopolize suffering wtf get your head out your ass

[@Diabaddus]

@@bb-uu1sv There are children of all ethnicities in the modern age that are kept as slaves and have it just as bad if not worse than the slaves that were brought to the united states. Big difference is that it’s happening right now, not decades or centuries ago. Nobody is standing up for them, nobody is making movies for them. I say what I say because the victim mentality is toxic for not only the individual afflicted by it but also everybody around them. It twists reality to make things seem worse than they actually are. Why would anybody want to live like that? It’s a fucking plague

[@Diabaddus]

@@bb-uu1sv If you literally just do some basic research there are all kinds of statistics and reports talking about how there is literally more slaves now than any other point in history… at least the slaves in the united states were actually freed and eventually got rights. What about all the others around the world that never got that liberation? We should be talking about them.

[@breadbaskets2772]

The Minstrel Ghost/monster from “Them” was such a neat concept and it looks like the actor gave a great performance, they couldve built a whole movie around it.

[@Stribog1337]

Has the potential to be the next horror monster icon?

[@corijaiden]

⁠@@Stribog1337i’m sorry as a black person i don’t think id like to see something that was an actual horror and distorts the mind of black people to this day described as a horror icon. thats like making hitler or stalin “horror icons”

[@eatatjoes6751]

@@Stribog1337 *NO!*

[@one-onessadhalf3393]

@corijaiden I think it would be cool if this character became a well known horror character, but not an “icon”. Like, not a villain that you love to hate or like a character that people can find some campy enjoyment out of and can print on ironic tee shirts, like Freddy Krueger or Jason or someone like that. More so just a well known character that’s very unnerving because of the uncomfortable parallel that can be found between them and actual history. I can’t really think of a good example of that, though, so maybe it would be better if he was just a character in this one show that doesn’t have much of an online following.

[@james-russellgause4735]

@one-onessadhalf3393 In Live and Let Die, Jeffrey Holder portrayed the character of Baron Samedi a loan of the dead. He is both horrifying and iconic; and doesn't carry the baggage of minstrelsy. He would be an excellent recurring horror figure.

[@blinkfilms1]

Wild to me how immediately after the horror movie "Us" we got the Amazon horror series "them". I almost watched it because I thought it was another Peele project. So glad I didn't

[@themorbidzoo]

The imitation is shameless, ugh

[@themorbidzoo]

@Caitlyn Carvalho The use of female pain and terrorization to drive home a horrific point is always sexist. We're all pretty shackled to the cultural standards of our time, though, and I don't think any subject matter should be off limits, especially for horror, which is meant to be transgressive. Plenty of bigoted art is still great in other ways. Like, have you read the Lovecraft story Herbert West Reanimator? Wow so racist. We should point that shit out and then continue on our day.

[@themorbidzoo]

@Caitlyn Carvalho I mean that horror is definitionally supposed to disrespect our understanding of what’s appropriate to see and feel

[@blinkfilms1]

@Caitlyn Carvalho it's kind of funny that you bring up reanimator because, while I agree it's sexist in it's use of female screaming for dramatic effect, the story itself, and especially that of bride of reanimator, is much like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein in its commentary on masculinity. The sequel is such a wild dissection of gender and I don't even believe they went into that movie intending to discuss it. That's a topic I want to write a video essay about some day

[@blinkfilms1]

@Caitlyn Carvalho are you trying to write an essay?

[@gwencere9383]

Have you watched the movie "They Cloned Tyrone"? Its a recent sci-fi/mild horror about a predominantly black neighborhood that's being used as ground for experimentation, its very funny and has INCREDIBLE visuals, I have nothing insightful to say but I think its very refreshing in this wave of mid to bad race horror

[@wildpineconeappears8013]

It's a great show! The humor is amazing

[@AzzyRiah]

I love that movie and it is incredibly refreshing

[@sincerelyzee521]

>they cloned tyrone is that a gravity falls reference?

[@GlitchBoy-ws5in]

"Don't presume because I gave you a few memories you knew my brother, you weren't really there that day... You see Fontaine he was shot, Violently, Right between interior ribcage 5 and 6, Missed the heart... Pierce the lungs... that didn't have to be fatal... they left him there, alone, scared laid out on the cold concrete, took him 15 minutes to die, You know when I arrived at the morgue, I just stood over him... for a long time, I-I knew it was him, I just-- They couldn't be bothered to clean all the blood... and by that time, it had dried up... crusted black, so I... found a rag... and I cleaned it myself... I washed his skin, I spared you from that memory"

[@Potacintvervs]

The bit at the end where the black people are being turned white out of revenge is straight up just Nation of Islam's story on white origins. The big headed scientist, Yakub created white people by taking the lightest skinned black people and mixing them with dogs and monkeys to create white people, who were made to rule over all black people.

[@alang.bandala8863]

He best "racial horror" is Candyman, the original. After that, I agree with you. Hollywood is traumatized with racial stuff

[@cobleen3982]

Candyman is one of my favorite movies ever made. Totally agree

[@alang.bandala8863]

@Dan Nguyen is the movie about a black man like a spirit that haunts the main girl

[@captnwinkle]

Because they are a bunch of Rich Progressives which are the most racist people of all, and are just trying to gas light dumb Liberals

[@8n8nxxi]

That movie is the horror version of a white savior movie and racist af. Fuck Candyman

[@DrArthurCGarp]

The original Candyman was a masterpiece. The new one was okay but misses the fact that ultimately Candyman is evil and scary. Yes he’s a tragic figure but his anger is just anger, it’s not used to help others and until the main protagonist comes along it actually hurts and traumatizes other black people. The message isn’t about letting go of hate, it’s about good coming from everywhere once horror is understood. The new Candyman just misses the mark and it’s pretty clear, even without a bird’s eye view that the male protagonist is completely out of the ordinary and going through both a physical and mental degradation

[@darrenalmgren634]

I was really interested in the Them series because I wanted to see what they did with the Tap Dance Man. He almost seemed like a deity and I was fascinated with how it could be. But I barely got to the fourth episode with how poorly written the show was. They pretty much depict the mother’s character as crazy from the outset, and half of the racism she is subjected to is often framed as deserved because she acts insane or unhinged. Was really disappointed with the poor writing and cartoonish racism of the white neighbor lady

[@themorbidzoo]

The Tap Dance Man is sublime filmmaking, but it's like they think your payment for experiencing that should be about 7 extra hours of mean-spirited punishment. Bums me out

[@Garage-wt5jl]

I actually agree. Tap Dance man really caught my attention but I also never finished the show because of the writing.

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

I have always found black k face to be kinda creepy, like in an uncanny valley kinda way, that character design really makes me feel like someone else got it.

[@themorbidzoo]

@@thepinkestpigglet7529 saaaaame

[@humansadness3749]

the moment the show completely let me down was when they dedicated an entire episode to a fucking ghost. after that episode, i had barely any hope and my favorite character ended up being the tap dance man because of how he was pretty much the best written character.

[@jamesparker3634]

As a complete horror nerd, you have described how I feel to a fucking T. This should have 20 million views so they can stop making these types of films and get back to good horror. I just feel like in all these movies they waste something good, trying to recreate get out. Be black, scary and give me a story line.

[@Kehwanna]

As someone from Ethiopia, I love a lot of African spooky stories, I would love to see more horror movies taking place in Africa, preferably paranormal. As for black people in Europe and America (I live in the US now), I would love to see more movies taking place in the hood like with Candyman since the setting is just perfect and the communities of people are always interesting. I love old urban legends in general, like those small town ones where people either know of the tale or are in on the town's secret themselves if not the entire community. I would love to see more of that, but with minority communities.

[@thecreatedvoid117]

@@Kehwanna I was really hoping to see someone mention Candyman. Thank you.

[@Zikomo7]

Them had so much potential but the writers mistook scared AAs for a good story. Racial trauma must highlight the subjects and authentic and courageous. It’s horrifying how Hollywood keeps missing this

[@literaIIyshy]

black girl here and honestly i couldn't even get through all of Them. Two episodes in i had to stop because it was making me physically sick like I really was crying and shaking over it, I couldn't stomach it at all. The show certainly is aesthetically pleasing, just very beautiful to look at but i can't imagine watching in full just for the ending to be as 'meh' as it sounds.

[@Kevin_the_Caveman]

Hey I'm a white guy and I couldn't get through it either, I had no problem with many other unsettling shows, but I felt like this was just unbearable and pointless

[@chasebarber10]

Same here. Just reminded me of my own experiences

[@intensestare5027]

yea the baby murder scene gave me nightmares

[@aktherula2048]

the realism of a general experience is not just for your entertainment. if the ending is what your concerned about then you shouldn’t be watching a afrosurrealism syfy about old school racism. if you read a book ab escaping slavery would you say the ending is “meh” watch it for yourself the way this woman explains it seems aggressively against it nd opinionated .

[@OcyTaviAh]

@@aktherula2048ah yes, the realism of a ghost house… These things aren’t made to be realistic, they’re made to tell a story. It is not a documentary or biopic. It’s fiction and it’s okay to criticise a fictional story for failing to tell a good or satisfying story. And it’s also okay if you liked it, but your experience is not universal. A lot of people didn’t enjoy it and their criticism is valid. It’s not a personal attack against you for someone to not enjoy something you enjoy.

[@jenoc3541]

As a fellow biracial person with Latin in the mix, I just wanna say the "it resonated with me and I'm only half a color" absolutely killed me, and will definitely be quoted in the future

[@themorbidzoo]

Haha, cheers 🍻

[@groovyhoovy2606]

Idk why I read your comment as “As a fellow barnacle person”

[@dudebro91-fn7rz]

You have to say latinx now otherwise you're not Being inclusivw

[@darlalathan6143]

Only if you're discussing Latin American people. @@dudebro91-fn7rz

[@darlalathan6143]

Maybe you're hard-of-hearing?@@groovyhoovy2606

[@phil8486]

Race horror gets so much more horrifying when you realize that apart from being black , there are minorites within the umbrella than of being a person of color and even the people under this umbrella will hate you for being different. The amount of isolation and fear that gives you is something no one can understand unless they've lived through it. Even if not directly horrifying, its a scary thing. And I'd like to have more characters who actually lived through honest and eye opening experiences that come with being black and a hated by others who are supposed to help you. And thats another thing i think isn't explored in horror, even though we've existed and suffered beside everyone else, it's like people choose to forget about the existence of black disabled, queer and mentally ill folk whenever they create horror or just use us as side characters without depths, even tho their experiences of fear and discrimination would and do come together most of the time.

[@hyperx72]

OH YEAH! Like being a weird nerd when you're expected to be normal and have "Normal" hobbies/goals, or you're "Setting everyone back"

[@shmuelhoit7118]

I love the conclusion of "stop making these movies for white people" so much. There are some many reportedly seminal pieces on the topic of race that, well, made for white people doesn't seem wholly accurate, maybe a Bell Hooks-esque white liberal. Hamilton, Antebellum, and honestly that Harriet Tubman movie as well seem to want to talk about a system of white supremacy, but can't help but, at least lightly, forgive modern society. The Harriet movie emphasized one small part of her actual life, the son of the plantation owner, into the full blown antagonist that the movie is center around. To almost reassure that the system of white supremacy wasn't the problem, it was wholly evil people that can be removed from power. The real horror of white supremacy that I think the Harriet movie could have grappled with is the uncaring of the average citizen towards their evil. They don't love or hate it, its just life to do immense harm to a specific group of people. But these movies, while still good imo, give one evil person to thrust all faults if the world on instead of like, the system man

[@themorbidzoo]

I think Hollywood fails to portray systemic issues accurately because the entire Classical Hollywood mode of storytelling depends on an obsession with an individual's cause and effect, itself an artifact of the film industry having been developed in tandem with the huge push toward modern capitalism. We have no cultural standard with which to understand, letalone portray, a problem that is communal and not individual, and Hollywood has no interest in helping develop one, because that would be risky risky business. Ugh, I didn't see the Harriet movie but you're one of many people to tell me it was kind of a trainwreck.

[@bennygerow]

So well said!

[@shmuelhoit7118]

@@themorbidzoo abit late but the internet is eternal so fuck it. It may just be a limitation of story as a medium in not truly being able to recount a.) History and b.) Systemic oppression well (or at least accurately) because like you said, stories are character driven. Well maybe its not im just struggling to picture a story that lacks a character. I love Peele's Get Out, but the analogy he created for the modern neoliberal white supremacy is almost entirely dismantled. And that's the point, but to accurately portray the analogy the writer would have to somehow make all of Chris's actions mute to the whole system. I'm not saying Get Out would improve with a post credit zoom out of hundreds of government endorsed fully staffed brain switching operating rooms across the country. I guess when I see this particularly problem in a story about race I can't necessarily fault them. Its just a nature of story I guess. Also watch Candyman, the original I haven't seen the new one so don't blame me if its bad, but if its really good I reccomended it from the get go

[@henryhen76543]

Allow me to introduce something so sorely lacking from "art", discourse, and ideas created by and for upper-middle-class liberal white women: REALISM. The fluff which inhabits the heads of pitiable "social justice warriors" is fantasy and idealism. First give me an ACCURATE and WELL-RESEARCHED film; one which uses REALITY to communicate its desired message. Despite being personally opposed to the idea of American filmmaking actively elevating a minority to a fame which would otherwise have been proportionate to its demographic population (a topic of its own; the white obsession with the "exotic" and the "foreign", which, injected into politics, creates some rather absurd propositions), I should have been more than happy to be attentive to a story that did not demonize the white man to a degree of absurd impossibility, but rather focused on the reality of discrimination. Upper-class white plantation owners were Christians, not Satanists; their justification for slavery stemmed from pity and charity: clothes, food, and housing were provided for the creatures who they believed would otherwise have been cannibalizing each other in some heathen ritual on the African continent. Excessive punishment of slaves, besides, was not only unprofitable for planters, whose workforce and investments could suffer depreciation, but was carried out by slaves of higher rank in the hierarchical system of plantation slavery. The real crime would have been the indifference and ignorance of the realistically questionable but nevetheless present ability of the African. Read Frederick Douglass. "Race horror"? Garbage, I say; created by and for adherents to the contemporary Western ethnic identity, outsiders to which would be entirely uninterested. I could rant and rave on for hours about the cultural, social, and psychological complexities of this. Instead I will relate an observation: Confederate memorials are removed in white urban areas, yet remain untouched in impoverished black rural localities.

[@halfpintrr]

bell hooks isn’t white liberal stuff, but I agree otherwise.

[@valta2760]

As a white person i don't want to "relate to" or "understand" race horror, i just want to see black people tell a black story in the most genuine way possible. I'll learn whatever i can learn from that. That's why i loved get out so much (and why nope is my favorite movie of all time)

[@themondoshow]

you get it

[@Lure420]

im mixed and when it hits it really hits. but when it misses it’s just a reminder of racism while i’m eating popcorn lol

[@valta2760]

@@Lure420 yup. For example, as a queer artist, i don't want cishet people to "get it", i just want them to see my stories, pay attention to things that may be new to them and, most importantly, just enjoy them

[@lavishmisfittink3214]

Love this comment

[@calebthornblad1831]

I 100% agree

[@erds4113]

“Why does race horror so often suck?” Ima just put my thoughts on this before I go any further cus it kinda stumbles into something I’ve observed before. Stuff like this so often sucks because people get so caught up in the message they want to communicate that they kind of forget everything else. You all know how people get with modern political and social movements, they’ll tie themselves up in them mentally to the point of excluding everything else. Storytelling’s no different. You ever heard someone insist on subtlety when telling a message in a film, tv show or game or whatever and wonder why when a straightforward message would get the point across better? It ain’t for the message’s benefit, you can get up in your soapbox and yell what you think at passers by without any trouble. No, it’s so that the story you’re supposed to be basing around your message or themes doesn’t become an anaemic soapbox. Good stories tend to get, y’know, the focus of the storyteller. If you drop development of your own characters, internal consistency or a good sense of tone and a narrative throughline in favour of just staring down the audience and proselytising them then, shock horror, you’re going to end up with a crappy story that’s unfocused or nonsensical. Storytelling isn’t a one trick pony, and a single element can *never* carry it if every other element was left to die. That includes elements like your messages or themes, even if they’re important or you feel strongly about them. Honestly the worst part about this for me is how willing people are to support crappy media if it just has the right message for them. We’ve all seen it, deny it or not, people backing up and salivating over mediocre or god-awful projects because hey, the director said dem good words I agree with. It’s sad because the people who support that and get so defensive over these mid af projects don’t seem to realise just how much value they’re sucking out of creative industries as a whole. Anyway I got a bit more ranty than I wanted there, but I think I got all that across for all the two people who’ll skim read this.

[@themorbidzoo]

I read the whole thing. Agreed

[@erds4113]

@@themorbidzoo Oh sweet.

[@edwileo5660]

@caitlyncarvalho7637 Correct what? George Romero is White. One parent was Lithuanian and the other was a Spaniard that emigrated to Cuba. "Hispanic" is not a racial term.

[@myfriendscallmekat]

yes!!! exactly this

[@maximusprime3459]

Jesus, how do you people have the time to sit and write these...passages?

[@mynameisreza1]

Them frustrated the hell out of me. Beautiful aesthetics in every way, especially the minstrel monster design. But deep down it only appeals to those with irrational and pointless guilt around humanities history with slavery. Forgoing real characterization for just brutalizing the main characters with racial violence to garner empathy is a trick that only works on stupid people.

[@themorbidzoo]

And, most unforgivably, depends on images of terrorizing nonwhite people. Very antiracist, very progressive 🙄

[@Yabio362]

​@@themorbidzooand here you are telling me (a black person) how to feel about black horror movies. You approach this like you understand what it's like to be black its hilarious.

[@glant5876]

@@Yabio362 My brother in christ did you not watch the video for six whole minutes where she says and I quote: "I don't know if you've noticed but, I am not black. I can't tell you what these movies should or do mean to black audiences. I can and will tell you what they mean to me personally as a bi-racial mexican cis-gender human female."

[@Yabio362]

@@glant5876 yeah it was cringe.

[@wesleyprince3465]

​@@Yabio362bro never once did she tell you how you were supposed to or should feel about it, just voiced criticisms and concerns with HER interpretation of it. Lmfaooooo found the Dawn tho💀

[@andrewgarda513]

Watched the Thing vs Thing video and loved it and was leery about this one because well these things can go sideways but it was excellent. You are dead on why the industry has jacked this up, like they do so many things - they learn the wrong lessons. And yeah, having worked in the industry a loooooong time ago, it will always look at Horror as easy to make and 'Lesser" and so will constantly screw up its potential.

[@bennygerow]

Haha I just watched that and here I am.

[@andrewgarda513]

@@bennygerow It did the job and here we are

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much!! :) Yep, horror never gets what it deserves. On the other hand, I also think the fact that it's ignored so often directly results in movies like The Thing, or other films that go completely off the rails with experimentation. It seems like the more credibility a genre gets the less it's allowed to do.

[@jenoc3541]

Dude I did the exact same thing, saw the Thing vid and thought it was the best take I've seen on the movie in a while, wondered what else there was, saw this and went "Uh oh"

[@poetradio]

The quote at 17:03 about black "bodies" is so good. In sociology I hear academics endlessly rattling off nonsense about bodies (now part of the generalized newspeak thanks to social media). If my eyes roll any harder I'll be staring at my tonsils. "Policing bodies". Thanks a lot Foucault, you scooped the brains out of people who could have made themselves useful.

[@blank4227]

he really fisted a generation

[@marthademovimaus5140]

Yeah, the "bodies" thing's weird and it's coming from the left.

[@Creepystalker102]

Terminology inspired by the trans activists she felt the need to bring up unprovoked, due to misogyny preventing people from wanting to say black men/women instead

[@perhapsabbey]

I've been trying to articulate how I felt watching The Killers of the Flower Moon as an Indigenous person recently and I think that what you said about movies using concepts that white audiences are emotionally distant from as thrilling and bordering on torture porn is exactly it but for colonisation! Thank you!

[@terryflynn6927]

What's also telling is that Peele's next film was to tell a very different story that had less to do with race per se and more to do with class. Most importantly, though, it was still about telling a story that, dark as it is, is entertaining as hell. US had humor, suspense, action, terror and shocking revelations. He makes movies he wants to watch. With "Get Out" he wasn't trying to invent "race horror", he was trying to make a scary movie, and using all his talents, he made a classic.

[@hawkshot867]

You should do a deep dive into how the industry treats animation, would love to hear your thoughts on that.

[@themorbidzoo]

I’m working on a vid about The Owl House right now and will def talk about animation. But a deep dive is a good idea, I’ll add it to the list!

[@hawkshot867]

@@themorbidzoo Ooh sweet! The owl house is great, definitely will check that out!

[@Toywins]

​@@themorbidzoo my son and I LOVE the owl house! He introduced me to it,and that was our bonding time. I'm so sad it ended!

[@ashe_irl]

the embodiment of blackface as an antagonist is such a compelling idea, honestly kind of a no-brainer for black horror. it's a shame the show as a whole wasn't handled with more care

[@bendixanderson4882]

Love this... I just want to throw in one counter example to Hollywood's "Latinas=Sexy" stereotype you critique around 24:00: Vasquez, the smartgun operator in the movie "Aliens." I know she was a minor character, but she is so memorable that I still remember her name decades after I saw the movie. Maybe the exception proves the rule?

[@themorbidzoo]

Hard agree lol. I think Vasquez benefits from being played by a really charismatic actress. She's perfectly cast, which is awkward since she's not actually Latina lol. Weird that she wasn't really in much else. Thanks for the watch :)

[@cicadeus7741]

Agreed with, of all films, James Cameron's avatars "Trudy chacon" She's allowed to be cool and attractive, but all her character and (importantly) camera focus is on being a capable badass with straight morals. There's no useless ass shots, the most objectified I think she gets is showing how *ripped* she is.

[@FangsFirst]

@@themorbidzoo But I mean, for all that she isn't in much else, Jenette Goldstein does have to her credit that she WAS in _Near Dark_ , also known as "the greatest vampire movie ever made" (shhh, don't ruin my delusions about popular opinions on _Near Dark_ )

[@CP-ke5pr]

this analysis is so good. I'm a Black millennial woman and this is what I've been trying to articulate for so long. Thank you for doing it so well. We have a joke that says "another slave movie?" So glad you discussed Them.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks, glad it hit :)

[@guy84838]

i think there's a strategy to quell reflection and guilt by creating an extreme depiction of prejudice so that those who are terrible can look at that example and be comforted that they aren't like that. i think the movie karen fits in very well with this topic since the actress who plays the villain is actually racist irl

[@WynneL]

I found Get Out extremely compelling precisely because it felt like I was being invited to look through the eyes of someone I am not. I found US compelling because it spoke to my experience as a poor Rust Belt girl: I know that there are many people in America deprived of the same experience that their equals born elsewhere enjoy from birth, and like the protagonist herself, I know what it is like to be lifted up from that... only to feel a sense of not belonging even though you've made it out, and guilt for those left behind. Nope was compelling both for showing me what I hadn't considered about film history, and displaying a common human madness that largely mystifies me. Jordan Peele is just incredible. His copycats can't begin to match him.

[@liliurud2789]

i agree, I also really loved Nope.

[@TheMovingEye]

Damn, you really have a concise way of breaking down concepts and narrative structures.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much :)

[@angrykagg421]

Horror, for me, has always been about completely immersing myself into the film. Am I the lady running naked out of the shower from the killer? Yes. I am. I think the "why" I am able to do that is because good horror has some sort of human quality to it. The first alien movie comes to mind. OK yeah an alien thing jumping from the shadows will spook most people, but the real horror is the struggle for survival and the threat of constant horrifying death. EVERYONE was Ripley trying to survive. I had more to say but I don't think I said it very well. These soulless movies are formulaic and just show racism on screen for racism's sake. They lack the human quality that makes horror good and helps us actually understand racism.

[@bethanylnguyen]

When you are talking about the character Dawn, I don't think it is a flaw of hers to "verbally abuse" of wait staff in that scene you shared. It is meant to be a cliche, for-white people helpful "Mammie" type character, but I think that Dawn's character just ends at that. I think what she said to the wait staff wasn't anymore condescending or mean than seating two women in formal wear by the kitchen because they are seen as too loud for the other table. I think that Dawn was one dimensional and made to make white people feel better. Like, " oh the sociologist would have these rude loud black friends who are actually sticking up for her, because she's THAT black friend" and then Janell Monae is just a "Respectable" black person. someone who, by all standards, is meant to be beyond the need for those kinds of loud outbursts. but that's more about respectability.... any way...

[@Batzbear]

Agree

[@galaxyrose1702]

I agree with this

[@savageBB]

A film that imo seamlessly blended race politics into horror film was actually the 2021 Candyman. The story that this was based on by Clive Barker, was originally a white antagonist in urban London, which changed to America when adapted to film. That in itself added a layer social commentary when Candyman was made as a Black man. Nia Costa's version was not a re-make but rather incorporated Candyman as part of a larger Black American mythos, as Candyman is an egregore built from intergenerational trauma. At least from what I see and understand of it.

[@JackSmith-qp9nh]

The problem I see is that a lot of those films assume the people watching them want to be racist, and if they can trick racists into thinking racism is bad then maybe they’ll stop being racists. A lot of racists don’t like being racist, or at the very least understand that it’s bad and don’t want to be associated with a bad thing.

[@toxicsugarart2103]

REAL

[@MonsterKidCory]

I suspect it's even stranger than that... Actual racists probably aren't going to bother watching movies by and about Black people. It's about convincing people who aren't racist that they are racist.

[@platycorn5301]

@@MonsterKidCory It's not "convincing people who aren't racist that they are racist" lmao, it's showing people who don't actively hold racist beliefs that there are still ways they (generally unknowingly) perpetuate racial biases and contribute to systemic systems of oppression. There is indeed a number of weird online people who call people racist for stupid reasons but they're a loud minority and they're usually badly repeating more articulate discussions regarding implicit bias and the like. People can't be cleanly divided into people who hate other races and people who don't, there's a variety of degrees to which a person holds explicit and implicit beliefs. I'm not trying to defend the qualities of these movies, I'm just explaining why your criticism is reductive to the point of being untrue.

[@bufficliff8978]

@@MonsterKidCory 🤌

[@wesleyprince3465]

"alot of racists don't like being racist" Uhhhhhhhhhhmmmm literally what😶 I mean maybe if you're talking about the gated sheltered liberal dont-hate-blacks-but-are-still-scared-of-them-way, like maybe I can see where you're coming from but if you're talking about just blatant white supremacy "good ole southern boy" type racism then nah. Those people unabashedly enjoy being racist they find that shit as self righteous as they find it funny.

[@chriswelter3859]

“Them” was objectively not a good show, but the tap dance man was an inspired work of terror. The makeup, the actor’s delivery - all of it was amazing. Absolutely menacing.

[@Kehwanna]

The Tap Dance man and the actor's performance was my favourite in the show. "A BEAST! AHH! A BEAST OF THE FIELD! AHH!"

[@TheTillmanSneakerReview]

😂 Woo. I thought it was going to be in the vein of Get Out but subverted my expectations for the wrong reasons. However, Tapdancing Man was terrifying

[@nachtschimmen]

If you''re discussing black horror you should also mention Lovecraft Country. I couldn't watch the show but the book was incredible: it showed how the real and absolute horrifying nature of racism but it compares it to the trifling fears that the existential fear white people have as represented by the work of Lovecraft which Rufus actually pays a great deal of respect to. He''s saying that enduring racism is much MORE terrifying and after reading the book I laughed with him realizing that my experience of homophobia was absolutely the most horrifying thing I'd endured and that imagining that it was existential was just me projecting actual fear somewhere else. I hope the TV series was successful in passing this message over.

[@themorbidzoo]

I’d like to read the book and do a dedicated vid on the show someday

[@nachtschimmen]

@@themorbidzoo ...and I look forward to see what you make of it and that gives me something to do tne meantime: watch the series to see if it lives up to the book's promise. Note that it is tongue in cheek playing with cosmic horror tropes in a number of different stories about black characters that all come together in a whirlwind climax that comments on the pain, fear and tragedy of racism.

[@nachtschimmen]

@chandllerburse737 That's the point of Rufus' Lovecraft country which is not set in the twenties, but in the fifties. Note that I very recently made this realization.The fact that it is set in the rural South is part of the ruse. It gets you thinking that it's referring to that part of the country. What Rufus is actually pointing out is that awful horrifying racism is a prevalent and irrevocable part of American history. Lovecraft country IS the entire USA - since the days of slavery until today! Pointing out that Lovecraft was racist is actually quite funny because - well - he was a recluse from a small island who hardly ever had contact with people, was emotionally repressed and self-educated. Why are people surprised that HE was racist when the most recent extemely well-educated ex-president of the US is the most disgusting racist imaginable! Note: Matt Rufus who wrote the book is black so he knows what racism is like. I can only imagine what he's experienced, but if it's anything like the homophobia that I still experience today, it's terrifying and disgusting. I guess it's Lovecraft Country everywhere!

[@dudebro91-fn7rz]

​@nachtschimmen You're talking about The president who gives actual klan leaders standing ovations and eulogies right? Imagine the uproar if trump said You ain't black if you don't vote for him

[@nachtschimmen]

Is this a reply to my message; I don't actually mention the disgusting sickening racism of the former president in the most recent post you're responding to but I'm alsmost sure that that is exactly what Rufus was responding to when he wrote his book: comparing the seemingly widely accepted racism of the educated class with the comparative racism of a self-educated man in the twenties who was scared of everything and led a sheltered life. Why the fuck aren't people more shocked?! It's Lovecraft Country, I tell you!@@dudebro91-fn7rz

[@lane6216]

You put into eloquent words what I could never. I didn’t know why I could never watch Antebellum again, or get past the first episode of Them. I could feel it was wrong, I just couldn’t label why. Thank you for continuing to educate those of us that have not had that side of the American experience.

[@DiocletianLarius]

This whole thing of "making race-horror movies for white people" always made me think if it's just a consequence of American culture/history or just Hollywood trying to make "easy money" by exploiting (and in some ways trivializing) systemic/social/racial problems. I think it's both, but do people really think this is gonna help in some way? Like, if white people consume this kind of horror they'll be more empathic towards black people or something like that? I'm not from the States and because of globalism etc. we Latins also have to consume all of the American media and movies, and it's really weird to me how they picture a society where things like "mixed neighbourhoods" and "interracial couples" are big achievements💀 Don't get me wrong, my country also have huge racism and xenophobia, but not in such a systemic way to the point of having special "ghettos/hoods" for the black ppl and a whole history of slavery and heavy racial segregation. I even read something about Italians and other Southern Europeans (who are clearly white) being attacked and called "Ginney/Guinea" in reference of their possibly Black/mixed ancestry :S I myself feel kinda attacked by the categorization of Latins as a WHOLE DIFFERENT RACE, specially when this Latin or even "Hispanic" race is just Mexican people of Mexica/Aztec and Spanish ancestry, which is exactly the same as the people with native-British ancestry from the States/Canada or even anyother mixed ancestry. I think there is no need to create new human races for the offspring of every "interracial" family. In my opinion this "Latino" differentiation only helps to further expand the racial segregation and it has some horrible precedents from the Colonial era: the "Mulatto" race (a person of black and European ancestry), or the "Mestizo", from Native and European ancestry, both "races" played a role in the Spanish caste system where people with more white heritage had more rights, freedoms and opportunities.

[@themorbidzoo]

I think if you asked the people involved in these movies they would say a lot of important-sounding things that ultimately conclude in the "raising awareness" motive: that people (the white kind) need to be introduced to the lived experience of racism before they can begin to care about it. That's how they're able to excuse the kind of brutality that slips into exploitation, and that's why those kinds of justifications are always suspicious to me; it tells me that they're more interested in telling a story "about racism" instead of a story about a person experiencing racism. Those are super different things. Re the "Latin race" man I fuckin feel that. If I had my way Latin people would globally just be considered overall indigenous if they have that even native/spanish split that defines the "race.". The reason they're not, in fact, is pretty disturbing to me in a really important way. American culture has an extremely vested interest in placing our indigenous population (and by extension every indigenous population because of, as you say, globalism etc) squarely in the past. We didn't invent Latinness, that was done by the vestiges of Spanish colonial rule as you correctly identify, but we definitely benefit from and actively sustain it. The US murdered its natives and continues the project to this day by treating them like some extinct, mythical people who have no current presence. The Spanish colonial project was garbage, but its motive wasn't to eradicate the natives, its motive was to convert and enslave them. There wasn't nearly as much of a taboo on having children or associating with native people in Spanish America as in English America, and that's why the US came to be white-dominant and continues to produce the egregious racism you're referring to through the current day while the overwhelming majority of Latin America in both culture and ethnicity still retains a lot of native influence. Latin people have to be a different race from Native Americans in the US because if they're not, people will start looking a lot harder at why there's a big white hole in the United States there their natives should be.

[@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801]

Like, if white people consume this kind of horror they'll be more empathic towards black people or something like that? Yes. Why you think it wouldnt?

[@DreamersOfReality]

As a mestizo, you're wrong. Mexico does in fact have a truly atrocious history regarding slavery and genocide. Worse in fact than the U.S. What New Spain did to the indigenous populations was utter depravity.

[@DiocletianLarius]

@@DreamersOfReality Wrong en qué? No negué que tanto la Hispanoamérica colonial como las nuevas repúblicas independientes tuviesen un trato atroz con los nativos. De hecho, en mi Argentina natal, llevamos a cabo una campaña de exterminio e incitamos la inmigración europea para reemplazar la población con gente blanca. A lo que me refiero es que, por un motivo u otro, los nativos terminaron siendo integrados dentro de nuestras sociedades a pesar del etnocentrismo, y es por eso que países como EEUU (q se limitaron a segregarlos) consideran a los mestizos como una (sub) raza aparte (lo cual me parece mal).

[@Choom89]

You're not a different race, there is literally only one race--the human race. The issue is that many Americans don't even know that anymore, they don't know the difference between species, race and ethnicity. They basically need to be spoonfed "hi my skin looks like this color so that's my race". It's social programming, it's creation of division and it's all for profit.

[@masterofrockets]

I will never not laugh at people that say, “wow can you believe someone generalizes a whole race?” Commences to then do that

[@Choom89]

Or get paid to do so, how "brave".

[@taeisrood470]

I haven’t watched Antebellum in a longgg time so I don’t fully remember Don’s character but the restaurant scene I found was needed. Black people, and even I have close loved ones who’ve experienced this, experience a lot of discrimination in even the most “minor” ways that some wouldn’t even call it so. Being seated by the bathroom or just not the best place in a restaurant or even not being seated at all is an experience that many black people share. Her being “mean” as you say, was rightful in my eyes.

[@Batzbear]

^^

[@purpleflows5680]

I’m a BW and it’s exhausting to hear people excuse explicitly rude behavior because discrimination does occur. The character was wrong and strong, which made her unsympathetic and added to the confusion that was that mess of a movie. While I do not share these constant stream of negative experiences based on my race that you speak of, I don’t deny that this is the reality of some. It still doesn’t give them the right to treat people poorly who haven’t done anything to them. That’s projection and bullying, which is wrong. Period.

[@AbeDillon]

Your observation that "Birth of a Nation" is "The mean to which the film industry regresses". *cheff's kiss* Here's hoping your channel gets more attention. You're amazing at explaining art and its impact on culture.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much 😊

[@madisonlee2203]

I'm only part way through this... but I want to point out that it isn't just the horror genre that fell victim to being beautifully shot, well acted, but horribly written in the past 5 years

[@6Sparx9]

Cough* Disney Marvel

[@jasong7373]

Another great video. I might be wrong but I feel Coates gets a lot of crap for his use of "bodies" when it seems he used that term for a specific purpose, and people coopted it. I think what rightwing trolls are grasping at when they criticize 'The Thing' or race horror is the sort of clumsy urgency fostered by activism leaking into every facet of our life, stripping away nuance and creative risks. In that way I can see a world where studios aren't constantly sticking their nose in, but we still get these problems. The Shawshank Redemption wouldn't be made right today, because the slow-burning concepts it conveys about race or justice would be completely trampled by a hyperventilating self-consciousness slapping the viewer in the face with surface-level obvious points. I don't think anyone else has done a critique of the genre, really love your channel.

[@themorbidzoo]

Khadija Mbowe did a pretty good breakdown of the genre last year, it makes me happy is a chaotic neutral way how many people are rejecting this kind of hollow, ineffective social justice appeal. One of the ways I think the current state of Hollywood is cheapening the art form with this stuff is by changing the culture around how any of it can be portrayed. Like, people's standards have adjusted to be suspicious aaaany presence of ethnic, sexual, or gender minorities in anything, which super super sucks and, again, muddies discourse. Like, I think it's true that the Shawshank Redemption would be made differently and probably worse today, because Hollywood is so concerned with seeming "brave" about race right now. But it's crazy to me how people on the right just selectively understand certain matters of inclusion as "appealing to wokeness" when Hollywood has been trying to figure out how to corner the female quadrant in genre movies since the 70s. Could you imagine if Aliens was made in the exact same way today? Or Terminator 2? Like, casting women in traditionally "masculine" roles in a blatant attempt to appeal to women isn't new at all. And the 2011 Thing has more in common with that era of moviemaking than today's, that was a movie made quite a few years before the industry started being super concerned with race and sex PR. Thanks. Again, I'm glad you're here! :)

[@Batzbear]

I watched all of Them because my mother wanted to. The first and second episode made me cry and upset in a way that was pretty much expressed in those first episodes of the show. I had to stop it for a week before going back to it. Being angry but unable to express it fully. Feeling upset that some of this show reflected what it was actually somewhat like for those first few black people moving into all white neighborhoods. While most of their stories weren't to this level, a good portion of them were horrifying in a way that sticks. I actually enjoyed Them in a way that no non-black viewer can really relate to, same with my mom. I consider this horror because for us, it is. The monsters of the show and the young girl in high school hit close to home for both of us, but for me, the young girl hit hard for me. Growing up thinking you're not "pretty" because you're black and wanting to be white because of it. It was scary to see that visually in a show again. The little girl saying her mom needed to be like Ms Vera because she believed her mom wasn't doing a good job was weird because I didn't realize it later, but I thought the same thing growing up and then spoke to my mom about it and realized later that was because many of my teachers kept saying my mom wasn't doing certain things or kept trying to influence this idea into my head that my mom was bad at parenting. Many of the characters trauma and horror they witnessed was, yes, trauma porn, but also just horror for those who know what those experiences are like or know those who went through them. This is definitely towards white audiences, but I think in some ways this is the director expressing the horror of being black, especially during the time, and sharing it for others to not only relate but to understand. Not exactly to have white people step back and go "woah racism bad", but more so to have brown people look at it and go "yeah..".

[@chexfan2000]

the Tap Dance Man was absolutely terrifying and deserved a better show that wasn’t so fetishistically enamored with toxic white women. TV in general is super obsessed with toxic white femininity, perhaps because of so much of it being born out of a need to entertain white stay-home suburban housewives with daytime soaps etc

[@AmandaFromWisconsin]

What's "toxic white femininity"?

[@chexfan2000]

@@AmandaFromWisconsin well gender is ever in flux but I’m referring to the behaviors exhibited by TV characters who fall on the “girl” side of the normative gender binary, aka “not boys”, that are deeply harmful to others and usually ultimately the character herself, and are usually understood to be condemned by the overall narrative but also form the bulk of it. For instance, that godawful show “The Simple Life” w Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie ostensibly was portraying these two blonde bimbos as being spoiled, capricious brats who were in need of some discipline and hard work, but also, they definitely never changed or became better within the show’s storylines. The camera ogled their tanned legs and asses as they would, like, go to an airport and be TSA agents but just put their own butt into the x-ray machine, then push all the bags onto the ground and make someone else pick them up, then ride the cart around whining about idk boob implants or something then crash it, and blame another employee despite being on camera. They were essentially portraying every single awful stereotype of a spoiled white trust fund girl who caused problems only and contributed nothing positive to society. Or, Toxic White Femininity. Being absolute cancer, while being very White and Girl. In Them the blonde says lots of N words and tries to get everyone to be a klansman because she wants to watch the new black neighbors fuckin fully perish; the show becomes immoderately About Her by the end when she is really just being Awful and White and Girl and that’s like.. most tv

[@cartera101]

I’ve caught up with all your videos, and this is by far my favorite. The popularity of race horror began after Get Out, and while I was happy, I never felt the same enjoyment as I did with Get Out. Your suggestion to alienate white people from the humor is spot on. Kudos. 👍🏽👏🏽

[@Choom89]

Movie was racist AF, if a tobacco exec. made a movie where every Mexican person smoked marijuana and "went crazy" would you watch and appreciate it? Yeah, rules for thee but not for me. What a surprise.

[@cartera101]

@@Choom89 Are you okay?

[@eatatjoes6751]

I think people just get so caught up in their message that it comes off as condescending or ironically offensive in its own self-righteous aggrandizing. Also, Them makes me sick.

[@liliurud2789]

I agree with this -- it's all about narrative and lens.

[@Squishy876]

Being black in America specifically is so surreal that it's inherently funny. The literally foundation of everything around us is rooted in racism yet we can't talk about it. Micro aggressions are in a ton of interactions yet it's virtually impossible to explain to non-black people. All we can do is laugh.

[@lionblaze0384]

YESSS I was hoping you'd talk about THEM, almost no one does and it was something that... was definitely shocking and disturbing to watch, only for me to look for analysis and realize that I was watching black torture porn for white people and felt real guilty for, like, 'falling for it'.

[@EtFactaEstBlack]

"Ooooo a black directed horror movie about the black experience?" *super graphic depictions of racial violence that i really dont need to see as a black person who experiences this shit* Movies like that are definitely not made for "us"

[@lukesmith1685]

That is SO cool your dress resembles the floor pattern from The Shining hotel. You're like the voice of objective horror, not this pushed force of horror that is a mind-numbingly low hanging fruit for modern directors. Almost how sex scenes were used in movies in the 90's.

[@ahobimo732]

"You can't have a female protagonist in a horror movie." Yeah, that's why the original Alien was so lame. 🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨

[@animeotaku307]

Don’t forget Halloween, Black Christmas, Nightmare on Elm Street, Scream…

[@nickrustyson8124]

​@@animeotaku307Friday the 13th 1, 2, 3, 7, Childs Play 1, Psycho, Day of the Dead, Scream

[@codalanguez]

Terminator, Hellraiser, Babadook, Hereditary, Talk to Me, Midsommar, Candyman, SIlence of the Lambs, The Ring, Juon, Martyrs, Unfriended, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Carrie... it's as if the people who make those comments actually never even WATCHED a horror film but enjoy talking out of their ass =_=

[@codalanguez]

The Orphanage, Pans Labyrinth, Dark Water, Coraline, my god there is soooooo much...

[@FireyCurls22]

Them was one of the hardest shows to get through and I was physically nauseous the whole time. And I kept telling myself “okay but the ending will have a reason for all this right??” No! Like you said it was just trauma porn!! I was just saying “what was the reason?!” Over and over and I couldn’t imagine a person of color watching this show, it’s unnecessary and gratuitous trauma porn!

[@ACIDJAZZZZ]

Gore porn, trauma porn, diversity porn, when series or adult topics become mainstream or popular, they loose their punch. They become “normal” and loose the story of the plot, they become preachy to a subject everyone knows, they want you to get it. They become less about the story, and more about the effect.

[@AscrodGreytagg]

33:28 “you gotta alienate white people” I just watched “Clearcut” (1991) last night and it struck me very quickly that this is exactly why that movie works so damn well. For those not familiar with it, it’s about a white lawyer who looses a case against a lumber mill that is clear cutting on the ancestral land of a First Nations community. While trying to figure out what to do next, he’s taken/kidnapped by Arthur (played by Graham Greene who is wonderfully terrifying and funny throughout), an indigenous man of hazy origins (no spoilers!) who decided to kidnap the mill owner, drag them both into the depths of the woods, and then “debark” the mill owner slowly as a form of symbolic retribution, all the while challenging the lawyer to try and do something, ANYTHING, to change things be it stopping his revenge or helping him either way. It holds a mirror up to white people who claim they want justice but that continually insist that it should only be achieved through pacifist means using the existing legal power structures and asks “How’s that working out so far?” Then it shows a bunch of retributive violence that comes from generations of genocide, marginalization, and land theft, referencing all of this super explicitly, then asks you to think about where the hell else you expect any of this to go?

[@Nyctonaut]

I just found your channel and have watched 4 videos in a row this morning. I'm in complete agreements on pretty much all your points about horror movies and like yourself I'm a horror freak. Always have been always will be. (I even have a little horror Channel of my own.) Your videos are extremely well written, you've got great delivery, great graphics and background, and I'm always interested in what you say and intrigued enough to watch to the very end of every video. Thank you so much, and actually you've really inspired me to work on my own writing better. I realize sometimes I just tell the facts or points of the story and don't give enough of myself and my opinions. Thank you for the inspiration! Keep em coming, you've got a new sub for good!-SLD

[@themorbidzoo]

Thank you!! I’ll check out your channel too 😊

[@Nyctonaut]

@@themorbidzoo Well thank you! I'm still learning but so far my favorite is my Tale of the Cursed Email Video. But like I said I'm still learning. :)

[@joshcope9485]

Um, the Al Gore Rhythm saw fit to expose me to your incredibly insightful channel today. And instead of being confused by the mundane suggestions that are unrelatable, I was transfixed by this uncomfortable inundation of information and entertainment that I am all in for. Please never stop and thank you.

[@VayaKahvi]

Something I saw pointed out, is that the tension in horror and comedy can be really similar, the difference being how that tension is released, which is part of why Jordan Peele did such a great job with Get Out. Watching some of the skits he did really show this, like the one where he plays someone looking for charity donations. "One dollar can save a child." Then the whole thing takes a turn for the horrific, but because it's so absurd you find yourself laughing at it instead.

[@general.grievoussy]

Crazy how you don’t have more viewers! Your video essays are well written and so so interesting!! Can’t wait to binge the rest of your videos

[@kittenbouquet]

Sweetheart is a really underrated movie about being, specifically, a black woman. I had a hard time understanding it at first (I'm white) so it felt like it really was made for black women (obviously I could be wrong). But might be why it's so underrated?

[@samuelsmith5400]

I feel the best example of race and class horror that is not overly preachy and tells a really compelling narrative is the original Candyman

[@RasheedGazzi-u5l]

Good example.

[@punisherdude06]

Stumbled on your channel today through The Thing video. I appreciate your POV.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much!!

[@willbe3043]

The distancing from what's really happening by saying Black 'body' instead of people is so gross. As an SA victim I've heard some people genuinely say "Why can't [people] get over it, it's not much, just rubbing body parts together. It just happened to your body". And it's the same vein, it happened to me the person not just my body.

[@stephenvelez9710]

“I’m only half a color”🤣 Yo tambien, chica💪🏼. This is a great video, extremely precise and insightful. The title card had me a little scared, but I sensed your righteousness. Race Horror is one of my favorite Horror sub genres, and I appreciate your thirst for movies to live up to the responsibility of what they're representing. I would like to see the powerful word woke returned to its origins, and taken back from use as a shorthand for performative surface acts. And Ganja and Hess❤. Anyhow, subscribed!

[@ielohim2423]

"Them" I found absolutely appalling. They showed scenes that they would never show with any other race. A woman being graped while her infant son was being thrown around in a pillowcase crying until it became bloody. What was the point of that??!!!! They would never show people of any race having a baby tortured and killed on screen while they are getting graped. Sad.

[@liliurud2789]

I didn't watch Them but your description makes the grape scenes in AHS sound tame, an example of your point. they also don't make mass media about the slavery that European people endured even though it always comes up in an argument against why slavery towards Black people isn't racist/evil because it happened to other races as well.

[@juliahagerberg6310]

This really reminds me of the oscar-bait LGBTQ+ identity drama trend a while back too. Watching something like "The Danish Girl" as a trans person feels so wierd cause on one hand you have these beautiful scenes and acting moments undercut by just how alienated you feel from the person who is supposed to be a main character. The movie instead feels like it takes on the perspective of the cis side-characters(and persumably the audience) and how they feel and think about our main character transitioning. It comes across as a movie trying to reach into the minds of cis people and show them how they should view trans people as inspirational free-spirits in touch with their true self. But to do that they have to make Lili Elbe a piece of cardboard to gawk at. In other texts you just get similar trauma porn about victims of hate crimes or abusive households or AIDS or similar shit that feels like its only there to try and convince a viewer who havent lived it that these are actual things that happened. But only so far as that its victims are shallow and basic, because anything further would become unrelateable or "unrealistic"

[@esther.tanis_]

thank you so much for this video! i had watched antebellum in a us history class in the 11th grade. everyone around me was like “wow that was really good” and my (white) professor thought it was an appropriate film to show the class. we were asked our ratings at the end and i was the only one in my class who thought it was just a movie catered towards white people and was filled brutalization towards black people only to bring the story forward. at the time i couldn’t explain why i found it distasteful and was kind of poked fun at for it. i legitimately thought i was crazy because i thought antebellum was ass.

[@mymaster416]

lol, you guys are watching cheesy race baiting movies in history class? Now i understand why zoomers are so crazy. No wonder

[@6Sparx9]

As an outsider emigrating to America, Americans, especially liberals are obsessed with race. All the race obsession creeps me out so it's hard to enjoy race baiting movies.

[@pearluniverse7878]

Them was so terrifying to me. As a black woman, the anger it invoked in me was actually crazy. I felt like I was going crazy with the family. It really was a kickass premise.

[@6Sparx9]

You have been race baited to believe in a mere simulacrum of reality :(

[@kolonarulez5222]

I never truly felt shaken by a show until Them. I marathoned it in 2 days which left me so upset and confused bc I thought they tried to blame racism on paranormal activity. Yes the Tapdance Man is incredible but long afterwards peaches and the phrase "cat in a bag" were still dark to me.

[@camelopardalis84]

They did blame racism on paranormal activity, in my opinion.

[@cjm8862]

i haven’t seen them, but as a black horror fan, i LOVE the idea of a ghost/monster that takes the form of blackface. not only is blackface monstrous and evil, it’s also just scary as hell to look at, and the clips here really show that. wish it was in a better movie

[@amandamiller6081]

Holy smokes, your channel is a real hidden gem... I can't believe you haven't exploded in popularity already!! "Clown tangent" literally made my week. :)

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks so much 😁

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

Just sitting here waiting for the channel to explode in popularity so I can claim my hard earned “og fan” award

[@ivanangeli]

I agree :)

[@phantomliger89]

Haha yeah, reminded me of Bridge reviews of Real Civil Engineer.

[@one-onessadhalf3393]

This doesn’t really count as horror, it’s more so just a spooky scary little movie, but I would love it if you would talk about Wendell and Wild in the context of racial horror. It’s about a black girl who accidentally lead a chain of events that got her parents killed and as a result gets shifted around the American foster care/legal system. After several years, she’s back in her home town at a new school, but she also gets visited by a couple of demon brothers who need her to summon them up to the realm of the living so that they can escape imprisonment as well. It’s a bit of a roller coaster of a movie, and it has a lot of themes and ideas that could’ve been expanded on more if it had had a larger run time, but it’s also a lot of fun with some fantastic representation and a pretty decent exploration of the school to prison pipeline. I’d love it if you checked it out.

[@billysmith1873]

The Tap Dance Man seems like a very interesting character. Haven't seen "Them", but this one character just seems to hit. "Righteous Vengeance". Having a being like this take the form of such racist hate performance and use it to exact revenge is.... satisfying.

[@marshallhuffer4713]

There's this movie made by BET called "Karen" and is marketed as a psychological thriller, but it's not. It's hilariously awful and is based on the Karen meme. This young black couple move to a new home where their next-door neighbor is a white woman who is actually named Karen and acts like a Karen while terrorizing them. It has over exaggerated stereotypes used to fit a narrative done with poor direction and acting. When I first saw the trailer, it felt more like a parody trailer that would be featured on SNL or Collegehumor. Some scenes include Karen telling the female of the young couple is slaving away in the kitchen, Karen saying cliche racist things like "you people", "slavery was so long ago", "All Lives Matter" and "if you don't like it here, go back", and how in her bathroom, she has a soap dispenser with the Confederate flag on it. I should note that the film was written, produced and directed by a black man named Coke Daniels.

[@beccak8166]

Nooo that sounds too on the nose. I feel like the film could have been helped if her name just wasn't "Karen" lmaooo

[@AcappellaTidbits]

I can't watch Lovecraft Country for this reason. I'm a black fan. I'm a horror fan. I'm a Lovecraftian fan. I watch things to escape not be reminded by my trauma and otherness in regards to my race. I watched Get Out and like it but there's a threshold...where it's too much. You're getting off on my pain.

[@D-ql8mz]

20 mins into the video, i had a lot of opinions and desire to leave a lengthy commentary on the subjects. Giving enough thoughts, I realized how alienated I was from the addressed audience, that any opinions I have would worth no more than dirt under nails. Yet I watch the video and was engaged until the end.

[@lizardskynard4726]

Im still young and stupid, and i’ve been watching a couple of your videos and all i can do is hope im as well spoken and articulated as you are when im older. You talk about these things that i subconsciously understand but I cannot bring them forward and articulate these ideas through words. You however manage to do so. All that to say, I like your vids 🫡

[@aaroncio1894]

Your dedication to horror is amazing. Keep up the good work. p.s I initially thought your dress was in reference to the Shining carpet design.

[@newwavepop]

i have not seen any of these films, partly because im just not a horror person. but also because i have zero white guilt and i feel like these films are made for either people with white guilt or Black people that have resentment towards white people in the first place. and i get tired of seeing and hearing things in Black and White terms, we are all different, we all have different experiences and different traumas and we all handle those experiences and traumas differently. to me these kind of films are nothing less than propaganda to ensure that younger generations of Black kids keep being pissed off and unable to move forward. constantly reminding them of the awful things people like them and their own ancestors may have experienced in the past. it is like a never ending example of the old i must avenge my father trope. i certainly do not see any way that is is helping anything.

[@ayo3181]

The term "trauma porn" reminds me of how i feel about hearing about/coming across hate crimes that align with my background. I feel torn because I should care about things like that, but its so personal that it hurts to even think about it.

[@3JuiceBeetle]

Everytime that I see a trailer for this sub genre of horror, all I can think about is that quote from SpongeBob “How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man!?!”

[@pianokeyjoe]

I am a Latino man, highly sexualized and I approve this message.. Oh wait.. 😛. Race horror.. Is this a uniquely North American thing? In Puerto Rico I did not know racism as a kid. But as soon as we moved to the mainland, holy molding batman! A surreal experience! I can change my economic status by working and studying to go from poor to wealthy in Puerto Rico, but I can not shave my skin off to look.. err RED?(blood). Cause God made us all different colors lol! Stupid racists. But em,, these movies you mentioned, I just saw them and I am genuinely scared of living in the mainland now. Its an insanity that is demonic and unreasonable in nature. These movies made me tense. The horror elements were very down played or almost non existent(MASTER). I can not begin to fathom what it would be like to live Antebellum. That was possibly a true horror story for colored folks like me coming from the islands! Fight or flight responses come to mind.. But while we are at it, you forgot "Sorry to Bother You" A truly quirky "DARK HORSE" comedy about black men being exploited with offers of a good job, and money and.. drugs, to then be genetically turned into HORSE_MEN by white corporate tyrants at the top.. Scary not comedy to me.. genetics tampering is happening and emmm? What was that experiment in the USA with killing and experimenting on Blacks back in the 1960s? Tuskegee or something? Movies only tell the truth vailed in fiction to make the horror more palatable to the masses... And now we have a movie about forcing trans/gay folks into NORMALS in a horrific way in the movie They/Them? Yuup! We are in for a ride.

[@themorbidzoo]

Mmm yes, like I said, bad political horror borks the discourse for absolutely everyone. There's a lot of race horror in other countries, Guatemala produced a really good La Llorona movie a couple years back, but in other countries it's typically the minorities telling stories about themselves in an already minority-controlled industry, so the dynamic is different. And! I don't think all race horror is fundamentally awful. I LOVE Sorry to Bother You haha, that's a movie that understands how to use surrealism to make a point. I've also heard good things about They/Them, but we'll see. IMO, stories about political and social oppression are best told through surrealism, which is sometimes horror, sometimes not. Thanks for the watch and the thoughtful comment :)

[@ladygrey4113]

You didn’t notice colorism? I’m Mexican and colorism is very much a thing in the entire spectrum of latinidad

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Nobody acts normals in these movies. Even racist people don’t just run around yelling slurs all the time. They don’t want to get beat up.

[@grimmsby3011]

These movies always act like blacks have to hide in bunkers unless the big bad white boogeyman drags them out of bed at night. It becomes so detached from reality that these movies are just comedies instead of horror movies based on social issues lmao

[@SurfbyShootin]

*Those ashkenazi screenwriters ought to know better. Dont they know what they are doing?????*

[@aganib4506]

I'm not going to watch this essay, because the shows and movies that explore around Black and Brown trauma continues to trigger me with rage. However, I would like to say that Hollywood cannot even bother to make films that showcase satisfying Black and Brown vengeance, and continue to make films that continue to piss off Audiences of Color to make a quick buck by glorifying racial abvse. I just wish there was a race horror film that has a twist where the victims of racial abvse team up to avenge themselves and those who could not get the justice they deserve. A film that comes close is the Biopic of the Deacons For Defense starring Forest Whitaker.

[@strangebeer]

One of the reasons Kubrick's The Shining annoyed me was in the novel Dick Halloran turns up to rescue the white folks in a twist to the usual stereotype in movies. The black guy isn't there to die as a throwaway victim...he is there to actually be a hero. What does Kubrick do... have him axed in the chest and die... the first murder in the movie is the black character. When everyone was declaring Stan a genius I just couldn't understand how he had missed King's subversion of the black victim trope ....unless he deliberately twisted it backwards.

[@davidbjacobs3598]

I just want to know what you thought of His House. Granted it's not the exact same thing, since (1) it's set in the UK, and (2) its protagonists are actually African refugees. But hot damn, it is so so good! I also liked the 2022 Candyman, although I know it had mixed reception. But then I skipped all the movies you listed here because I heard they sucked. I'm kinda curious how this era will be remembered in 30-40 years from now on. No one will remember Antebellum or Master, but they'll (probably) still remember His House and Us, and "race horror" may only be viewed as the few good entries.

[@themorbidzoo]

I love His House 👍🏼

[@TheMarkSasuke64]

24:15 I had this discussion with my mother the other day. We call it extreme overcorrection. Like how there were no LGBT representation for a century, now they're in every show. They take minorities with populations around 10% and put them in media as if they're half the entire population. I'm one of those minorities and it irks me to no end. Similar to how you mention the major latino representation being children. It's one of those things where I'm glad some of these movies/shows are great, but I don't need every single bit of content being a gateway for representation.

[@LouiseHowardR]

I really wish you had talked about Lovecraft Country and its hits and misses.

[@themorbidzoo]

Future vid maybe

[@IguanaChick]

My ancestry is "race horror" I belong to 4 peoples. My ancestors from one of those people were colonised long ago, and left europe to find their own place to colonise. That branch was involved in massacres. The ancestors from another people were slave takers, and genocidors. The third, well my ancestors from this group were an imperial family at some point. These ancestors disgust me. And fourth, a people that were destroyed. The blood is so thin im not the palest of us, and we used to be quite dark. Our language wasnt allowed to be spoken in public until my parents time. This group of ancestors were destroyed by the other 3. And that makes me saddest of all. My family spent history tearing eachother apart

[@chanmarr8118]

I’m a black woman and my bf, who’s Italian, watched “Them” and thought it was good and said I should check it out. I immediately said no when I heard the plot. These are nothing but torture porn usually and I wasn’t going to sit through that. I think he did die a bit inside as it progressed. I did find the minstrel guy terrifying and his scenes interesting (since we live together, I caught a few scenes but was out of the room for any family torture). And the thing with me is I like to give history lessons when we come across things like this.

[@raysadbury8907]

I watched Them when it came out and I'm pretty sure I wasn't able to finish the last episode or two. The episode that included the flashback with the murder of her baby and her SA is something that will stick with me forever. It was honestly one of the most disturbing displays of rac*al violence I've ever seen and like... I'm an avid horror and historical movie lover. I've watched a ton of movies that depict the historical reality of violence against Black people, movies that deal with SA and violence against women, and movies about g3noc*de and war-time violence. And I just... never really knew what to do with the trauma it left me with. The show certainly didn't resolve it, and we never really get any closure with the mother as a character. Which, in some ways I think this does speak to the idea that horrors like that don't lead to a clean-cut happy ending where the characters single handedly solve rac*sm in their community. But it just goes back to the question that you pose, why did they need to depict this horror so vividly?? I mean, to their credit, I think they achieved the goal of creating a scene that is impossible to ignore or glaze over. But I'm just not really sure who needed that... or what purpose it serves other than to "open" the eyes of non-Black viewers which???? I mean that could have been done in any number of ways that didn't involve a scene of intense prolonged SA and violence. I had so many lasting feelings,,, so thank you for discussing this!!

[@HONEYDROPGALAXY]

I dont want anymore race based horror movies but if there were to be more I think it would be interesting to see them in a similar writing style to Mouse, aka more focused on individual story's and families and how their reactions to others effects the way they act themselves. How people can perpetuate the same hate they've gained to fit in with the common narrative, I cant think of any Directors that I genuinely believe would be able to produce that however EDIT: just some other random thoughts that I have I feel like Bryce Dallas Howard gets continually cast in race based or just prejudice based films in general for brownie points since people will recognize her from the help (this is not to say she is a bad actress shes great and I love her truly more so I just notice that pattern) I think one of the main problems with race horror and just a problem with alot of current movies is that they cast black actors but don't write them to be black, they write them to be white peoples idea of being black, or how they think we see ourselves. Their taking the "we want to be heard and respected" and not looking any deeper then that, there's a black actor what else could you need, oh we threw in a strong independent woman with sass. But they never act like people. Its hard for me to explain but its kind of like the difference between how one acts for broadway vs a movie, they call for different levels of animated behavior, different cadence ect. it feels like watching a puppet show version of the events rather then being there WITH the event. I think thats apart of the reason Peele's does better as well (other then him just being phenomenal) he understands how black people act and interact, he lets his actors and actresses add bits of their own personality into the characters. Like you said about the reactions and comedic undertones. You feel uncomfortable during get out not because you watching excessive gore or witnessing a crime but because of the acting, you see the shifts in (i forget the gfs name) when they arrive at the party. you can see how off everyones acting you get the little comments that the white people make and its off putting its realistic. you see Chris actively changing himself to accommodate to a white community rather then him just be that way by default. I have no idea if any of that makes sense but I hope it does to at least some people lol

[@justinejustice_league1857]

That's why she made a B line for the Jurassic World franchise, she's trying to break out if that

[@Choom89]

No one is just a color. There is only ONE race--the human race. We're not different species or races, simply different ethnicities and ethnicity is soo much more than just skin color. Please.. people need to realize that black and white were used on segregation signs for a reason, continuing to use these labels is voluntary social segregation.

[@cartera101]

@@Choom89 So you’re saying here that there’s only ONE race, the human race, yet you replied on my comment that the “Movie was racist AF?” How can you argue that the movie was racist AF when you don’t believe that there’s more than one race? Are you implying that the movie was racist because the humans killed a deer in the beginning?

[@HONEYDROPGALAXY]

@@Choom89 Being a different skin color IS being different. And thats ok! its important to acknowledge our differences so we can overcome them and celebrate them, its not something to be ignored or be ashamed of and its definitely not worth discriminating over, but refusal to see race is a refusal to see someone completely as they are.

[@bi-bunny-gaming9305]

I like race horror, there's a lot to work with. The execution, however, has definitely been lacking. I will always say Lovecraft Country will always be one of the best Race Horror series.

[@jeanpaulmichell7243]

' The (film) industry doesn't really care about what minorities think '. Of course it doesn't. The majority of the audience is going to be caucasian. Hollywood is concerned with selling this material to the largest market audience for maximum profit. That's it. No need to elaborate further about social ideology or idealism or race wars and so on. This is America, the Dollar rules, and everything is corporate and profit driven. That's not to say Colin didn't make any good points; on the contrary she is obviously quite eloquent and intelligent, but Hollywood is playing a sham, ultimately it comes down to the bottom line.

[@065Tim]

Ofcourse this comment won't get a reply from the channel...

[@mado-wh4jv]

You realize that those kind of movies are made with the very advice of social activists and represents of those minorities, and aren't commercial success?

[@jeanpaulmichell7243]

@@mado-wh4jv 'Aren't commercial success' Are you joking, or do you genuinely not know what you're talking about? Get Out - which started the current race horror trend- earned $255 million, on a $4 million budget. US made $255 million, on $20 mil budget. Hollywood saw the numbers, drooled, and immediately put the studios to work cranking out more of same. Want to get your movie made? Got a great script? Well you better re-write that shit to have White Guilt and Race Baiting as the focal points, otherwise your golden chance is going to be passed up on. 'Made with the advice of social activists'. Right. And there are military advisors on war films. Surely there is no moral conflict in regards to profit, none whatsoever. 'Represents those minorities.' These films are generally made by upper-class trust fund kids that wouldn't know true, actual oppression and struggle if it tore a chunk out of their privileged asses. It represents THEM, not the oppressed.

[@themorbidzoo]

@@065Tim lol, channels don’t get a notification for every comment my guy. Jeanpaul is right, he basically just restated my entire point: Hollywood is going to sink the race horror subgenre because they don’t understand how it works. They think it’s easy and cheap to make and is therefore a reliable cash flow. When it turns out to not be because they’re actually *not* easy to make, which is happening now, the trendiness of the subgenre will probably pass, and the mainstream will unfortunately consider it “dead” even though it’s always existed. All because the dollar is king 👑

[@HorrorbleCWalt]

Gotdamn you articulated the way I felt about all of these post-Get Out films masterfully (no pun intended). I would love to see you tackle Candyman, because it falls into the same criteria. It wanted to say a lot of stuff, but said nothing at the same time.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thanks fam, totally agree about the new Candyman. It’s on the list 👍🏼

[@icantevenread7512]

You have very well written and well edited videos, just wanted to shout that out

[@themorbidzoo]

That must be nice for someone who can’t even read 😁 Seriously though, thanks so much!

[@bloodblues85]

I clicked on this hoping that it wasn't a right-wing thing that I would have to tell yt to "not show again," and I was pleasantly surprised. Made me subscribe. Cool analysis, I liked this very much.

[@themorbidzoo]

Thank you, glad it hit 😊

[@D1GTL-D1L3M4]

As someone who is mixed(white and black) ive always hated race horror. It could be something good but it always ends up sucking. I wish it could be better. Alright something off topic from that- I think something that would be interesting is horror based off of how mixed people are treated. Because im my experience. I have always felt like a weird thing to be looked at. The fetishizing of mixed people is WILD in media sometimes.

[@badlilkitty96]

Damn Tap Dance Man gives me chills. The actor is amazing. ❤️🖤 embodying the fact that blackface is not ever a victimless crime. Awesome video!

[@zombiehunter5346]

I remember trying to watch Them, and just being so fucking upset and horrified. I kept coming back to “I need to finish it, it’s important for me to see what black people have been through”. But after watching this it seems like that wasn’t the point at all. And now I have a phrase for it, trauma porn.

[@zarabee2880]

Brit here 🇬🇧 I remember seeing American tv footage of something like cops where this young black man is stopped by the police They aren’t being brutal to him, in fact, they were really professional tbh, for American police he was on the phone to his mum at the time and you see the genuine fear in his eyes, he stops being able to function he’s so scared 😢 I remember being almost shocked at his clear fear. He was 19 or so and he looked certain he was about to die, I could see it on his face. I felt voyeuristic watching as the police calmly explained they were arresting him. Again, they were reacting to his fear, clearly uncomfortable as I was. That’s a reality of America & I felt like an alien watching it. That I couldn’t comprehend how a society has got so far fallen so far Race isn’t such a big thing over here (at least where I live) It’s class, and class brings all its own prejudices true, but I think the comment of films about police brutality not being interesting as horror concept is likely true, in a white lens. I imagine police brutality is a very real terror in modernity. That a police officer could murder someone by kneeling on his throat until he died, in broad daylight, on a busy public street is terrifying And though the “officer” that murdered George Floyd was brought to justice it spoke of the generalised attitude that he did it at all… he was cuffed, why not sit on his legs? It spoke of an attitude that he wasn’t challenged by his coworker . A generalised attitude that you can die at the hands of people supposed to protect you It’s a really frightening concept that bares exploration & I’ve always found horror films able to explore fears and explore what scares us really deep down. As I said, that young man…his fear chilled me to the bone 😢

[@loniloo9521]

As a black Brit who’s lived in the states as well, I would implore you to do more research on the racism in the uk, there are plenty of accounts of racial abuse from police and other systems in place in the uk. Also in my experience there are plenty of places in the us that aren’t nearly as openly racist as places in the uk because of just how big America is. America is huge so even though there’s the overarching threat of the governments racial violence, there are lots of communities to find comfort in which I haven’t found the same (at least in the same way) in n the uk

[@Bridge2110]

Black people being scared of police may be "a reality of America", but that does not mean the fear is justified, as once you control for the rate of violent crime, blacks are under-represented in shootings by police.