The Problem With Revenant In Warframe

[@TheMatyw]

Revenant is great for casuals, my brother is a doctor, he hardly has time to farm, with revenant he doesn't have to worry about building, synergys, elemental damage, he just goes to town, we usually play warframe to crack some cold ones and talk since he lives in another state, I think it's a necessary evil, that's my opinion.

[@biotech500gtr]

Based

[@bootywarriorda3rd]

Tell ur brother that he's cool

[@Boppo1687]

Yeah Revenant is great for people who just want to play every once in a while

[@darkumineru1681]

ye like warframe i am always fine with some frames being easy to build and use rev has some depths (unlike wukong) and builds beyond just immortality with nice thrall mind control or his 4 and he is not broken he is just survival and some light thralling for damage buff with augment or helminth options

[@lookalike4805]

Warframe is Too Convoluted For it's Own Good. 👀

[@DuonDRaven]

I look at Revenant the same way I look at busted gear/spells in a Souls game, they exist to allow people who otherwise couldn't clear the content to have a chance of still having fun playing the game. Not everything needs to be perfectly balanced, especially when you have such a massive variety of options. Don't ban training wheels just because you don't personally need them.

[@meatwax]

This is the correct answer

[@Yung.Ert.]

This is how I feel as well

[@undercoverbreadbug2723]

It's even sillier to want to make everything perfectly balanced in a PvE game. It's not like everyone is out there getting smacked around by Revenant mains, they're our allies not our enemies in game.

[@yvngvudu]

bros is afraid of the power fantasy in souls games lmao so sad

[@jouuie9822]

Rhino can be just as unkillable as Revenant, and he provides much more value for the player with his other skills, while also being accessible to new players

[@ThunderJunkOC]

This conversation pops up all the time about this frame. Rev is fine. He is the "newb tube" of Warframe. He is a strong reliable frame that new players can get early. He gives new players that missile launcher they need to start really diving deep into content. He helps carry low rank accounts into late content to start getting the things they need. DE knows exactly what he is. The reason long term players do not understand is that they forget new players are even a thing. They want to balance the game around the later play they experience. DE is not stupid, they put Rev where he is on purpose, just because Rev is stupid OP in our eyes, doesn't mean he isn't necessary for players that just hit Cetus. Hell being invincible isn't even important anymore. IDK why all the vets want to "fix" Rev, he's fine. He is exactly what new accounts need to get them to real power later.

[@ryoougi9088]

and his ability looks cooler than something like rhino, his base fashion is also great, that'll excite new players more

[@brandonuzumaki]

Yeah, i rather have my teammates being invincible all the time than being on the ground all the time, it's not like Rev disrupts your game like other OP frames do, you just have someone who never dies, that's it.

[@3thirtyDr3amz]

@@ThunderJunkOC “Revenant's main blueprint is awarded upon completion of the Mask of the Revenant quest, which is unlocked after reaching Rank 2 - Observer with The Quills.”. I think considering that new player/early game is a pretty hard stretch.

[@ThunderJunkOC]

@@3thirtyDr3amz How long do you think it takes for a new player to get to The War Within? I'll give you a pass cause for us it took 10 years. Been playing since beta. New players don't have to wait though. They will not only have Rev but other hard to get frames locked behind standing in the first 40-50 hours. They won't even know wtf Steel Path is before they get those frames. Forget everything you remember about our experience. New players don't have to wait 10 years for a plot line. It's already there. It took us forever to grind rep cause we did it one at a time. New players can grind all the factions each day. They fly through content unlike what we vets went through.

[@ashfallgaming1685]

In fairness Nova isn't suggesting a complete nerf to revenant. Honestly I like the idea of updating his 1, 2 and 4 because then he would be tanky and have a play style that has an actual identity rather than don't die and shoot gun.

[@bradleytreinen]

"Helminth flexibility" is such a funny way of saying a dogshit moveset.

[@brandongreen4439]

Okay I understand that, but there is something to be said about being able to have a moveset with a lot of options for different heminth abilities. There's well over 60+ options, beinf able to use most of them well isn't a bad thing, but having that flexibility because your moveset lacks synergy kind of is.

[@AcceptableAsGenerallyDecent]

his first two abilities are just as broken as his third ability with the only bad one being his fourth IMO because likeee just have 260 or so power strength and you can instakill levelcap with one and two (reave drains 100% of thrall’s health at this strength so just thrall a few enemies then let it spread and you can instakill like 7 enemies of any level) so basically you can play all content with just 260 power strength because the low dps of killing 7 enemies at a time is rendered okay due to the fact that he cant die (if the enemies arent so strong that you need a full instakill you can just shoot them lol)

[@sophieirisviel4100]

babe wake up new nova vid (i’m falling asleep while watching this not out of boredom but out of sleep deprivation)

[@Metaknight145]

A guy in your squad that can't die doesn't harm your enjoyment of the game.

[@Ssian_]

But you forget the point that rev players think they are imortal Go on a lvl cap cascade with randoms I can for sure tell The player that will die first, is the rev player Every Single Time People dont know how to play him properly

[@random4718]

@@Ssian_ not all rev players are braindead, but part of them are really dumb some times (the ones using nautilus prime just to drag nullifiers in front of them and lose all the mesmer skin especially)

[@Ssian_]

@@random4718 They dont even know how to counter nullis Like Shoot the drone on top bro

[@Arctic_roach]

​@@Ssian_ wdym play him properly subsume 4th use mesmer everytime it runs out it's not a difficult concept

[@Ssian_]

@@Arctic_roach That is the point People dont recast mezmer skin Or refill charges

[@Stormandreas]

In all honesty, if DE had any inclination in making more CC focussed gameplay, while reducing the reliance on damage all the time (and so giving us more options), they'd have to severely nerf, or remove Overguard. Overguard has single handedly changed the way the game is played, by flatout denying CC, reducing Status, and requiring high damage, which has resulted in this whole "full on damage", one dimensional meta we're in, among other things like terrible drop rates, so quantity of kills ends up resulting in better chances for drops.

[@Solvernia]

Honestly I like the fact the enemies have a counter to CC. It's makes the gameplay more engaging. Instead of mindlessly nuking rooms you have to shift focus to the guy buffing his buddies. CC is still viable you just gotta target focus every now and then.

[@lookalike4805]

​​@@Solverniawe Clearly weren't Watching The Same Video. 🤔

[@cyrus6461]

​@@Solvernia the fact that even Nullifier bubbles, something meant to counter WF abilities, can be destroyed by damage based abilities is why the meta is so boring. It's the reason why people can just ability spam through everything, except arbitrations

[@AnymMusic]

@@Solvernia "it makes the gameplay more engaging" you LITERALLY are forced to mindlessly nuke rooms. That's the whole fcking problem here. Who gives a damn if 1 unit buffs trash mobs? Just pump enough damage and everyone will die anyway. Warframe has a DPS problem, period.

[@Solvernia]

@@AnymMusic You're not forced to do anything dude play how you want. And I'm talking about Eximus and nullifiers as well as enemies that give out overguard like the healing ancients and murmur wardens. Those guys make it so you can't just CC everyone in the area non stop and you have to target them. It's not souls level difficulty but it spices up the situation

[@random4718]

Revenant was my first prime , and honestly i love it, it gives you that immortality feeling adding a huge boost to the “fantasy of power” that is warframe, i confess i used it a lot while i was learning to play ,after reach steel path i started to use other frames, i had enough knowledge about modding system to do it.

[@The57912]

NovalUmbra: Limbo is probably one of the best Warframes for Void Cascade due to his Control NovalUmbra: Void Cascade is best used with damage due to how little value control is in Void Cascade compared to damage.

[@sophieirisviel4100]

@@The57912 so limbo’s ability to completely smother a map in CC let’s you focus nearly the entire rest of your kit on the damage, and also has a really easy way to convert all that CC into damage using his augment

[@NovaUmbral]

xP I specifically said outside of a "few warframes"

[@ChozenBardoUmbra]

Who says Limbo has no damage?

[@kinsan89]

​@@ChozenBardoUmbra Rift Torrent augment go BRRRRRRRRRRRRT

[@derpmorederp1417]

I believe that. Cascade loves to spawn thrax directly on top on of exolizers. Its unfair by design.

[@SteampunkDream]

Then there is me wondering why the fuck Trinity's blessing got nerfed like 5 times.

[@ShiroNature]

Oh boy my 5am brainrot

[@NovaUmbral]

We both know we didn't actually go to bed, instead one of us brain rotted on shorts and tik tok, while the other was mashing their head against photoshop trying to find a good thumbnail or else he'd fall asleep and forget about it the next morning.

[@noughtic8204]

Lobdodimized

[@ShiroNature]

@@NovaUmbral I was goon maxxing so your wrong 🤓

[@sophieirisviel4100]

@@ShiroNature 🤨

[@voltz1073]

@@NovaUmbral do you exomew?

[@trentawsome8118]

Personally I think he is fine. If you want to turn your brain off and play there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes that's what I want to do as well but for people who don't like him just don't use him. I will say he is a bit of a problem for DE cause they have to design things knowing he is in the game. He's not the only frame that can easily survive to level cap. Let's not forget the queen herself Octavia who does the exact same thing. The only difference is she has to crouch a bit but her damage and buffing potential are insane. As a matter of fact, all invisibility frames have it just as easy but no one comments on Loki even though not only does he have invisibility but an augment for switch teleport that makes him invincible. Ash has always been known for his endurance ability as well and is pretty easy. Even Ivar's has no issues but people just complain about more blatant things even though to be real Octavia is just better than revenant in my opinion. Infinite scaling damage like rev, extreme survivability like rev, ability to share said survivability with the team like rev with augment, but unlike rev has other buffs for the team and finally even if you take away invisibility she has resonator which literally deletes the enemies ai. Her passive gives her energy back and with no mods can be used to take on steel path. With just a little duration for comfort she goes to level cap no problem but she technically doesn't need it. Tl;Dr. Revenant is good but there are plenty of frames that can survive super easy and because of weapons power creep can kill fast too. I don't think he is a problem.

[@kaiju4240]

I think the issue is the invisibility frame requires a bit more work. New-mid players probably don't have viable mods yet. Most of those player prob will never know of Loki switch augment until later. Also rev don't teach you how build...So it's like why put all this effort in when u can press 2.

[@ParagonGoetia]

This is why we are never getting challenging content like raids, we would need to have enemies that bypass these immortality abilities for it to work. So either mesmer gets a change where the protection isnt guaranteed or make enemies bypass that.

[@jackalscry8173]

I’m too brain dead for even revenant. I use hildryn instead for brain dead tanking.

[@noahboddie3482]

I think the problem being overlooked is that he more than just survives super easy he effectively cannot die, and unlike a frame like valkyr who's cost for it is possibly exploding when she runs into a nullifier or a constant need to maintain energy, he's both safe at all times while mesmer is up and it's reapplication is incredibly easy. More over, abilities like prowl inform your interactions with the rest of your kit, mesmer skin just doesn't provide enough incentive to not just turn it on and ignore the rest of your kit

[@00Grimreaper00]

​@@ParagonGoetiathere is "The fragmented one" boss that can shut down abilities but that's only 1 enemy you'll face one time

[@LuisVicente-fi4fz]

I once heard Pablo comment how Nyx is hard to balance around her invulnerability because she can become too overpowered really easily...well, I guess Revenant's mesmer skin proves his point!

[@Ssian_]

Rev can die

[@robertharris6092]

When was that? Must of been years ago before the massive power creep.

[@SusloNick]

Nyx was stripped of invulnerability like 10 years ago when damage to Absorb became energy drain = shes energy tank and severely gimped in movement on top.

[@AlucardNoir]

As a person that got Rev before the rework but after eximus were introduced in game, the problem with mesmer skin isn't that it's op now, it's that so many frames aren't end game viable without absurd investment in them. Even without invulnerability, rev is perfectly fine for most of the star chart and SP star chart. It's a few missions and eximus heavy missions like Arbitrations and Sorties that truly require that 1 sec invulnerability. The real problem is the people that play for the necessary hours to reach lvl 9999 enemies. Most players never go that far, hell, the most most people will ever see is 1000-1500 in the Duviri circuit. But because most of the people that do make content and test their frames and builds against max level certain frames are considered way more viable than others. Not really true for how far most people play, but that's how it goes. I moved to Rev from Wukong because DE broke his clone, Excal Umbra and specters for a while. Wukong went from doing around x2 the damage to having a dead ability. And I can assure you, Revenant did not need invulnerability for the star chart at the time, or for most of the SP star chart. The problem is that without that 1 sec there are missions he can't do, and with it he's basically the second coming Innaros - or whould he be the third because of Innaros Prime? There is nothing that can be done to the rest of his kit that will make people reconsider them if they're currently not using those abilities because with that 1 sec invulnerability he's immortal in pretty much all content the game has to offer - and unlike Innaros who needs a lot of investment in Plains arcanes to be immortal, he only needs you to pres 2 every once in a while; might as well rename Mesmer Skin to God Mode. You don't need to use his other abilities because his 2 is that good. And if you nerf his 2 he suddenly becomes unusable in at least some content in game. So again, the problem isn't his mesmer skin, the problem is the eximus and the CC meta from before them. That being said, Jackal, SP Jackal, Duviri circuit and DC SP Jackall and Razorback can in fact strip him of his entire Mesmer Skin Stack so it's not like he's completely invulnerable.

[@lunarezlycablood1838]

Circuit Jackal has been patched to not strip abilities anymore. tbh they should keep it, but change AI to stop Jackal from spamming radial slams 5-10 times in a row.

[@AlucardNoir]

@@lunarezlycablood1838 When was that if you recall?

[@ZomgToastWtf]

@@AlucardNoir U35.5 back in march to be specific.

[@AlucardNoir]

@@ZomgToastWtf thank you.

[@robertharris6092]

Id say nidus is the 2nd coming of inaros.

[@XBullitt16X]

Not a problem with revenant, the problem is with enemy overguard. It was a mistake from jump and still is, enemies should never have full immunity, just resistance. DE made CC useless and that's their mistake.

[@Anne_Grapple]

I think it's not necessarily bad to have a few enemies immune to CC. But just a few, not the entire room of non-stop spawning regular mobs with tons of both health and damage. CC immunity is way too overpowered to give to everyone.

[@XBullitt16X]

@@Anne_Grapple Its why we're in the damage meta we're in, because nothing else works other than pure brute force.

[@whysoserious4274]

@@XBullitt16Xyeah It doesn’t take a long time to reach that conclusion Every you go for a build or an opinion on how to build something There’s always some form of helmith infusion and the common abilities are damaged based abilities Or status based abilities that directly bleed into dealing more damage incarnons are all about the damage tenet and kuva weapons all about the damage and the innate status they come with that you can control depending on who you bring Feels like after overguard arrived The shift has been Dealing as much damage as possible in every type of content The harder stuff they brought to the game like archons Archimedean Netracells SP help to shift the game in this direction. Idk the solution to this but I’d start with overguard and what it effectively destroys You tackle that and you start making changes Side note: help my boy limbo get his groove back overguard is killing his potential

[@XBullitt16X]

@@whysoserious4274 Same with many CC frames, that became pretty useless to mediocre, like Loki and Vauban for example. The root cause is overguard, as you say we start from there then work our way outwards.

[@thecrappyyoutuber4243]

​@@whysoserious4274 Limbo is still one of the best frames for defense

[@xs10shul]

It looks to me that current revenant is training wheels to harder content. Players use mesmer skin to carry them into higher level content while they farm up better damage weapons. Then, because his kit is ultimately boring, players move on to other frames when their damage output catches up. You noted that revenant is the most played frame, but (1) wukong is a very close second and (2) you can see in the 2023 MR stats that revenant's use starts to fall off around MR 20. That jives with what I see in harder content. [EDIT to add] The MR data is fascinating. Many frames go up in usage toward the top of the MR scale. Khora, Saryn, Titania, Wisp, and some others all jump to around 4% of usage for high MR players. It suggests very different needs at higher levels.

[@brago900]

I don't play Revenant much but he's my number 1 when it comes to playing content that I don't like.

[@Schizus]

Exactly that, Revenant is perfect for farming some more specific frames and stronger weapons, literally that was my way but with Inaros back in the day. Idk why people are upset with his mesmer skin which is, let's be honest, the only good thing about him. Yes, it is practical immortality and we didn't have anything like that before (actually we did), but we didn't have overguard on enemies before. Which turned out a very unpleasant suprize for me as a CC main (Vauban) who returned after 5 years of absence. Yuck.

[@Flarflenugen]

​@@brago900that, or stuff i dont feel like trying in, mainly boss fights. I wanted them over and done with

[@usdepartmentoftreasuryinte6052]

first wukong, now rev, the curse of the immortal frame lives on

[@brago900]

And if you nerf Reveant the number 1 tank role will simply go to number 2 tank and people will play number 2 tank.

[@CoolKid369]

bring back the knightmare thumbnail

[@NovaUmbral]

cursed

[@Sci-Fi_Freak_YT]

Yes

[@ethannazareth5390]

Just in time for Destiny 2 : Episode Revenant

[@cyrus6461]

Was looking for this lol

[@jcallion7099]

What nice timing, literally got revenant today

[@RichHimes-sd1nj]

read my post from a different comment don't believe the hype and mod carefully

[@AnymMusic]

I would honestly love it if DE said "fck it" and rebalanced the whole game a bit more away from the overt damage bs we have now, cause like Trib said, DE's fix for mindless damage pumping..... is DEALING. MORE. DAMAGE.

[@chris-tianmothman]

God I used to watch you all the time and suddenly just stopped getting your vids recommended. They've only gotten better, and now I'm gonna go watch the rest of the ones I missed.

[@gawainroberts7359]

I usually play support revenant in Elite Archimedean to help keep my team alive.

[@blob643]

My big problem with Revenant isn't his mesmer skin making him a one button frame... Its the simple fact that enemies affected by 1 doesn't count as an enemy meaning you won't trigger any arcane nor be included to kill count in missions like exterminate, It's been months since I last used him so I don't know if this is still a thing. Edit: Atleast killing them with his mist should still count as a kill

[@Solvernia]

On the flip side you don't have to kill the thralls to end a defenses wave so silvee linings I guess

[@LumiNexus]

One thing I find funny is that pre-rework Wukong was memed on for being unkillable and not much else, but now people use Revenant like he's pre-rework Wukong and he becomes the most played frame by a good margin.

[@walpurgisnight7]

Revenant is an accessibility tool, in my opinion. I have friends with physical disabilities who struggle to use frames and weapons that require high APM.

[@Havok91]

10:30 this is why I love Dagath so much. Her ease of use isn't as high as Revenant's, requiring an augment to achieve her S tier survivability, and the functionality that augment gives facilitates active gameplay shifts. Sure, while you're invincible, you're just a gun-zerker. But once that buff wears off, it becomes a race to identify and kill a large enough group in as fast a time as possible to reduce your cooldown and get your invincibility state back. Had it not been for that, I surely would still be playing Revenant as my go-to invincible frame.

[@dan4571]

How to play revenant like a pro Press 2 and 🛌 🚪🚶

[@tomasz9429]

You forgot "shoot Torid Incarnon." part.

[@ranorunadaira1452]

@@tomasz9429as Revenant main I use Dual Tox

[@Rakhali_7]

​@@tomasz9429😂😂😂

[@ImSoBready]

2 and 4 with roar subsume. I mainly play snorevenant, I love it.

[@ranorunadaira1452]

@@ImSoBready same

[@Sphynx_]

Now waiting for that Nova video

[@kinsan89]

I used Revenant the other day for an Arby's run. I forgot how fun it feels to be practically invincible

[@robertharris6092]

A lot of frames have a shitloae of survivability. Citrine, harrow, nidus, etc. Youd have to try to die with them.

[@jannol1269]

Revenant: I dont die on steel path 🤓 Yareli: I also dont die. Nezha: me 2 Gara, nova, baruk: yeah we too. All health tanks: yeah we too. We also have more than 1 ability. Loki: w8, if I am invisible, I am like revenant right? Am I also op? Rhino: technicaly, I am immortal too, + I have roar as base ability. Limbo: No, I am the biggest tank, They cant hit me if I am in other dimension. Valkyr: yeah, but you are also useless. I can be trully immortal while doing tons of damage. Inaros: But you die instantly once you loose energy. I on the other hand can passively return to life. Nidus: You have no abilities other than passive! Why did your abilities last time had any impact? I can be immortal while doing tons of work. Octavia: You kids. Everyone knows I am the best warframe in the entire game. I am both immortal and have infinite damage. Protea: Come on, you the best? All you do is constantly shaking your ass and calling it dance. Octavia: Its called lapdance you fool! Protea: You know why you are invissible? Couse grineer cant stand looking at your ugly ass moving up and down. Saryn: quit rambling. Everybody knows I am the true queen of warframe... and my butt is the best. Excalibur: I can confirm that. DE had to nerf my superjump becouse I used it in unethical ways. Banshee: Enough!! ... ... ... Zephyr:.... Voruna:.... Frost 👀... Ember Frost: 's hot. Ember: what? Frost: Nothing. Ember: Did you just called me hot? Frost: its not my bad that the damn banshee modded for negative duration! Ember: .... I am more into Hydroid. Mirage: I could say why. Trinity: I used to spend a lot of time with him back then... You know, during the farming sessions. Nobody could get out of enemies as much as him. Rhino: He also used to get a lot into... Banshe: Silence!

[@Grandsheba]

This is gold tier commenting😂

[@JQDeathFromAbove96]

DE needs to add new enemies quite a few new enemies that MUST be CC prioritized before they can be damaged but they need to leave it as a surprise. Say “we’re adding a new enemy” but stay quiet about how to defeat it and NOT show gameplay of it. There really needs to be wonder awe and exploration within warframe again. There still is just nowhere near as much as say 5 or 6 years ago.

[@thecrappyyoutuber4243]

What do you mean cc prioritized, have you even thought about that question? some frames don't even have cc abilites and it wouldn't be balanced

[@JQDeathFromAbove96]

@@thecrappyyoutuber4243 it means exactly what it means. Cc doesn’t exclude all but frames pal. Maybe use more than a Torid.

[@goof827]

I farmed for two weeks to get him when I was extremely underleveled for lvl 40-60 plains of eidelom back when I started the game. When I did get him, he carried me so hard through star chart as despite what people said about old mesmer skin, it was still an amazing tanking ability especially for star chart and early steel path. It was honestly really cool to see the community collectively figure out he’s not a bad frame, and now I hear talk of him being nerfed even though 3/4s of his kit still doesn’t hold up to late game content. Theres something to be said about how fun these frames are for new players, in early start chart; Revenant has so many tiny synergies with his whole kit that you can utilize completely when level climbing in star chart. If DE does make changes to him, I hope that they will preserve some of the tiny more quaint synergies, even if they dont buff them, I just would hope that other people new-to the game can fall in love with a frame of their own as thats what got me into WF

[@-whiskey-4134]

If you have a competent Revenant, no one in your party dies, they always have 6 stacks of Mesmer Skin, or at least 5, and many enemies die with one hit from Reave. He effectively makes the entire team invincible as long as the person playing him is paying attention. Also, Mesmer Skin makes glaive build more viable because it negates any stagger effects. Which is how I use him. I’m always flaying around throwing and exploding multi element Glaives without stumbling every 3 seconds. It’s pretty fun lol He’s my favorite next to Dagath, and Harrow.

[@blitzcha0s308]

In regards to changing the game to gear it towards more control play styles, my 2 cents is to make CC abilities deplete over guard faster or instantaneously. It doesn't hinder dmg or survivability but it's enough to bring control up to the same lvl as them.

[@lookalike4805]

This Defeats the Point of Why Overguard Existed in The First Place. 🤔

[@asriel3564]

@@lookalike4805no it doesn’t cc and aoe are 2 very different. Cc is just controlling a group aoe is what Overguard was made for so you can’t just Nuke a room all the time (But look where that went) rev isn’t the problem it’s that the game support High msg ON BOTH SIDE you and the enemy. It’s basically who kills who first wins

[@lookalike4805]

@@asriel3564 it Was Made to Stop Crowd Control... That's why It's Immune to Crowd Control. AoE has Nothing to Do with Overguard. 🤔

[@NeonRunes]

Every time i've failed an optional bounty obhective in the Cambion Drift it's been a revenant player that refuses to read

[@kiro253]

valkyr: "Am i a joke to u"

[@SusloNick]

Shes really underrated but shes gimped by becoming melee only and heavily energy-bound so it balances out, kinda.

[@possesstime2648]

Remember scarlet spear when Limbo of all warframe actual got more usage for his cc? Then they just banished him to the shadow realm and he haven't recovered since, and all forms of cc nowadays is straight up useless outside of lvl 30 missions But even then, how would they change it now? Straight up not ki**ing enemies hinders your progress and is counter productive

[@themonkeys96]

I think we first need to compare if mesmer skins violates any of the 3 nerf points DE has (which luckily we were just reminded of today!) Afk, Disruptive, Dominant. Afk and disruptive can be immediatly tossed. Mesmer skin doesnt finish the mission for you, and a team mate not dying is not at all disruptive. Thus we're left with the final question: Does mesmer skin cause revenant to reach a level of dominance where people feel like they have to play him? If we consider unkillable frames, there's a lot. A lot of them, however, require a bit more concious thought than just pressing 2 every 30 or so seconds. Harrow needs to be aware of shield values. Gauss needs to work to keep redline high (which, tbf, is the entire concession of the kit) and be aware of damage types like toxin. Zephyr/mesa need to he aware of AOE damage and keeping out of melee. Etc. Etc. So a frame simply refusing to die isnt necessarily a cause for dominance. So why the high play rate? He's easy. Press 2 and then go do gun play. And to be entirely honest, if youre able and willing to utilize other survival methods, other frames can outperform him offensively. Ironically him having weak abilities outside of mesmer keeps him in line because his entire identity is simply refusing to die. If you dont need that, pick anything else.

[@PrimeTime__]

I only really used Revenant once I got to Steel Path and got humbled using my other builds. I learned more about building survivable load outs. Shards helped. My weapons were good, but got better. Now I rotate him around several other frames I've built up for SP.

[@GreyEnneract]

Well yeah the only thing that can stop him is enemies that disable abilities. But because of that, they'll never buff his bad 1 and 4, or give him tau damage, or make his 3 make sense (why does his 3 heal him when he's always invuln lmao)

[@Ui_Raizen]

I hope when we get to try calibans rework we can see the potential revenant could have with a more eidolon style kit in the possible future

[@Velflunkle]

I can't say there's anything bad about Rev. You're trading off fun and room clearing powers for the best survivability in the game, with the augment even being able to support your team. He's a great boob frame. Or if you just want to not worry about surviving

[@NiceGameInc]

And now comes Excal which almost nobody knows can be made even more immortal up to levelcap (easiest melee frame to do so for good reasons) while also scaling well into levelcap especially since the armor changes as he doesn't rely on full armor strip anymore. Now going all out on a dot build makes levelcap an easy experience.

[@alexberube5269]

I mean Revenant could definitely use some changes to his abilities to make him not only used for Mesmer skin

[@lookalike4805]

The Problem is the Game... Not Revenant.... Or Did we learn Nothing from the *Wukong* Nerfs ? 🤔

[@alexberube5269]

@@lookalike4805 I'm sorry did I say nerf him? No. I said change his abilities some that way things like Danse macabre and Reave are more useful in day to day, as it stands those are the 2 abilities you get rid of for helminth

[@lookalike4805]

@@alexberube5269 il Stick with my First Response. 👀

[@tomasz9429]

I came back to the game the very week Rev Prime was released. Farmed 5 sets of him in one evening, made a ton of plat, he is my 4th most played frame, after Yareli, Nyx, and Excalibur(sic!), because back then it was just convenient pushing content with him, not having to worry about anything :) I'm currently crafting Torid, and soon I will join the Rev+Torid Incarnon gang, sending a clear message to DE that they should really look at the old frames and start a process of comprehensive upgrades for everything old.

[@OptimalToast]

Haven't played WF for a while, but I never thought Revenant would become the most played warframe at any time, that's wild. When I was last playing, plenty of people were still hung up on Inaros and didn't seem to understand, including some _other_ content creators.

[@Hellothere-ss4jq]

Inaros was heavy copium the playerbase slowly realised he was garbage all along and he got reworked. Revenant on the other hand went from his Mesmer skin being insta deleted under automatic fire (likely the version you know) to lasting a set duration upon being triggered making him immortal.

[@OptimalToast]

@@Hellothere-ss4jq Yeah you're right, when I last played him there were times when I would have to switch to operator to re-locate and recast and/or rely on magus lockdown for some quick CC. The more recent changes to mesmer skin seems crazy, I'm a little surprised DE did it.

[@robertharris6092]

​​@@Hellothere-ss4jq inaros wasnt copium. The power level of the game has just increased a LOT since inaros was made. It used to be that his survivability was sufficient esp with his healing to surgive anything in the game easily. But that was before steel path just artificially inflating numbers. Now hes prob the frame thats fallen off the most. And his rework didnt really do much for his survivability. While also giving him only 1 ability that does very mediocre damage.

[@Hellothere-ss4jq]

@@robertharris6092 I argued back in those days too that Inaros' design was unsustainable due to having effectively no kit. Yeah I agree that times were quite different back then and being a walking potato sack of health and armor was enough...then there was also old Naramon + old Covert Lethality + Dessication omg one shot everything 24 hour survival run world record stuff. His rework may not have moved the needle much but I'm glad he has a more coherent kit now

[@robertharris6092]

@@Hellothere-ss4jq true. Its not only inaros though. Pretty much any armoe tank that cant either super buff his armoe like chroma. Or gets other sources of DR to stack with the armor like nidus. Have fallen off pretty bad in terms of survivability.

[@Shawn-Xander]

revenant with torid incarnon goes hard thanks DE

[@MJ-co3nt]

Revenant have taken the mantle of Immortal, and the best tank , and Speed God Himself.

[@DronesOverTheMoon]

Revenant was a victim of poor decision making on DE part over how to make the game more challenging (Punishing CC because ???) But people apparently prefer him as he is right now so i guess everything is fine right?

[@huntercrow9553]

revenant is that one frame you can make anyone use just so they cant still enjoy and learn the game so they wont stress about surviving i have no right to judge anyone maining rev since i was a dirty wukong main my take is 10\10 weapon frame helminth letting rev have damage buff made him better at being a weapon frame 10\10 at survivability my no1 rule is never judge anyone about how they play, but roast their puke fashion colors

[@ribztercabz2222]

I think its fair to have Revenant as an easy to use frame, better to not nerf anything with his mesmer and 4th ability, so maybe at least adjust his other skills to enable different playstyles cuz most people that find his gameplay mundane are those who are looking to enjoy him and not just to cheese him.

[@semajoiranilom7176]

Revenant the party boi. He just cast Mind Control and Enthrall, then you got an invulnerable auto-enthraller, making reave viable as a %health killer. =)

[@UNGGodYT]

i did not played enough with him to have a solid advice, but i do wish they made CC better and more desirable, bring in the beefy units but in less number, i really dont like the KPM meta

[@sirith9157]

Being "Easy to play" or "I'm invincible, lol" isn't really an argument to leave Revenant as busted as he is. He's a mess of ideas which never should happen in the first place. Voruna being the same to be honest. DE seem really confused as to where they want to go with the game. Do you want complicated warframes? Or deadbrain ones? Do you want damage nukes? We have been playing this game for years and DE still don't seem to know how thier playerbase operates... Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should only have warframes like Gauss where his passive is longer and more complicated than some frames entire kits. But power in games is fun when you're engaged in it, not mashing one button and sadly warframe goes in this direction : /

[@robertharris6092]

They arnt confused on what they want from frames. Theres straight up different people making different warframes. Literaly one warframe will have 1 person in chRge of designing him and his abilitys and another frame will have a different person. I think theres 2 or 3 people in charge of it.

[@xermasboo5401]

To be honest I hardly use Mesmir skin. I use his 1 and 4 far more, and 3 is used for movement when too many are around(like 6 or more). I have recently started to consider what subsume to take Mesmir Skin. Right now Roar is the only one that is coming to mind because going max strength and duration would give me close to 100% or more for roar without invigoration. The other is energized munitions. I would have considered Ember's ability if it wasn't such a drain hog. The only other 2 for consideration is Tesla Nervos and the Charm ball. Don't have all subsumes, if I did would consider Gyre ability. Doesn't mean there is no use for Mesmir Skin, but I find it far less usable than the more active ones. Even his 4 is more valuable for its damage redirection.

[@OSCTHeaven]

For Danse Macabre you should change its synergy with thralls, which is that thralls killed by DM drop a unique overshield orb, but Revenant will never need any overshields, all he cares is the shield gate to not die mid-cast of Mesmer Skin.

[@Cie_Kite]

I think CC can come back by introducing new enemy types in the same vein of Arbitration drones (it's hardly a new idea since it's been years now that players are using Arbi drones for inspiration to try to shake things up). Imagine a new kind of units in each factions that greatly buff his allies and provide them invicibility (and NOT ability immunity like Arbi drones), while staying hidden behind them (and maybe even able to summon even more allies). Players would be unable to destroy the invicible and highly buffed crowd around them and should rely on CC to make their way toward the protector to be able to wipe everything.

[@craigkuhlman6869]

Slight problem: Arby Drones ignore CC and do the same for linked foes. The only way to deal with them is damage them

[@Cie_Kite]

@@craigkuhlman6869 You didn't understood what i wrote. I never said it would be Arbi drones 1 to 1. The extent of similarities with Arbi drones are buffing others with something and staying hidden behind them. But rather giving full invincibility and ability nullification, they would give damage nullification and huge damage boost, making it impossible to fight them head on.

[@Fruit_handler]

Revenant has become the new Inaros

[@Trans_witch]

The thing with revenant players is that they have all their abilities, but they choose to only use mesmer skin. I have a friend that only played revenant and melee for hundreds of hours and then said the game is boring, when I recommended him to play other frames it was like a new game for him. This is why i never recommend revenant as a beginner frame.

[@zebdude]

The only reason I still play Revenant is because he looks cool. His busted kit is just a bonus.

[@FHZK77]

As a rev main, I agree with what you say. He aint bad in what he dose, but he feels like old wukong where all he really did was not die. In no terms I am saying he is bad. His 1 just dosen't work well as a cc since you can kill them, 3 and 1 combo work but only for mobs that do(acolytes and others just don't work as well), and his 4 just feels like hildryn's 4 without a big boom. I would be happy to see changes to his 134 anyday, and accept any nerfs/buffs if he ends up getting any.

[@alexdz4938]

The thing is, if you want to make a rhino as allrounder you can build him accordinately and it will feel awesome.If you ever want to play revenant as allrounder - his control abitilies suck in a way the are NOT COMFORTABLE to use. You play a coop, enthral an enemy with 1rst skill,then team kills it and you`re not getting any of it spreading to other enemies. Main problem is not his abilities,but the way they apply and that`s sad...

[@panchumblitz4406]

yessir time to warframe drown out my brain at 4 in the morning!!!!

[@IxodesPersulcatus]

I pick Revenant when I need someone reliable to back the team up. He won't carry the Archimedea (his CC is mediocre at best) but he will act as a solid safeguard.

[@8Mad8Hatter8Prime8]

Dance macabre revamp idea: The ultimate could have a tap/hold cast to select from the current Dance macabre or a new ultimate: revenant can open the sky over his point of aim releasing a swirling carrousel of sentient energy, all enemies hit by the beams receive true damae equivalent to 25% to their total hp as an initial contact damage, subsecuent hits from the sentient beams will deal damage equal to the enemy weakness and upon deat caused by the beams damage or DOT inflicted, they charge revenant with a surge of sentient energy that boosts his energy regeneration, upon the end of this ability duration, Revenant releases a sentient energy field from his current position, that creates a field that grants the same buffs from the energy pillars you are suggesting. Allies entering the field will receive the buff and an additional 60% damage type equal to the enemy weakness that decays overtime afterl eaving the field. Enemies entering the field have their abilities shutd down and are unable to regenerating shields, health or using their abilities, receiving a 5% of their total hp as true damage every second. may Pablo hears this and may he bless us all with a surprise light rework....

[@utilityaccount8514]

solution: no enemy should be 100% immune to any effect

[@TheWowmart]

I have an idea of how to change dance macabre. Make it work exactly the same but the animation is a break dancing head spin and the lasers come out of your feet

[@keldricharts]

This is practically the Rhino meta all over again.

[@christophbrrr350]

I dont like rev more specificly his mesmir skin unsurprisingly it seems to make allot of people think certain survivability tools are bad just cause your not completely immortal ive mentioned in chat how insane the parasitic vitality is and they responded "theres no reason to use it just play revenant" i hate it its always the same people who when you showing and explaining a build they say to use something else instead because itseta or its all thwy use and rev is one of the worst too here because maybe the reason i dont play rev is because i want to enjoy more than one ability on a frame maybe a 50 percent chance to not take damage is good enough when the rest of the kit is also good i hope they nerf mesmir skin to the ground and buff the rest of his kit maybe instead of straight up getting max stacks on cast you have to get kills to build up stacks for your next cast a kill gives half a stack killing a thrall gives a whole stack same if a temate kills one and killing a thrall with your ultimate gives 2 maybe reave would also make thralls more vulnerable to his ult to add some synergy to that that way rev players can still get there op immortality but not have brain dead gameplay

[@masonparizo705]

Very new tenno here (came from Destiny 2, absolutely love warframe). I rarely have time to play, so I was one of those players that just bought the prime since I heard it was pretty easy to start with. I played him maybe a week and then honestly... it got boring 🤷‍♂️. He is ok, but I dont think he's an issue. He felt like he is a great way for the newer folks learning the game to get through a mission (just think about all of the knowledge you vets know intrinsically... us rookies are lost, I still don't even know how to get to steel path). Plus, without any pvp, what's the problem with Rev? As others have said his only negative is a newer player won't die as much? I feel like more guns in the fight is a positive, no matter what rig they're running. Maybe I need more context still, but from my perspective, he was great for that gap between early game and where I am now. Thanks for the video!

[@Ero-Sage]

The only solution to a lot of the problems in Warframe is to remove Overguard and Shield Gating from the game entirely.

[@Senator_Legweak]

Hey, Umbral, do you think you could share how your build works and show what mods you used for this revenant in a separate video on your second channel? Also, love your fashion.

[@Henrex_]

I feel like Revenant is a new version of what Wukong was before his rework.

[@AgentVamp]

B-but... he's the closest to a vampire for me... :(

[@3thirtyDr3amz]

His (non Mesmer crutch) kit has the whole problem of relying on consistent thralls. But having to specifically walk up and tap 1 on a thrall if his existing ones get killed (which his 3 and 4 will basically immediately do). Its slow and awkward and cludgy. If the 2 reflect auto-thralled (or even the 4 could get an augment of some sort) it would immediately open him up. On the other side, he's another casualty of over implementing Overguard (and the other increasingly large numbers of randomly CC immune enemies). The mesmer change was specifcally in reply to Overguarded units with automatic weapons being able to immediately bulldoze him. So Overguard is entirely responsible for that overtune. And on the flip side it also disrupts his entire thrall mechanic.

[@Grandsheba]

Not a problem, its a kit. The problem is your choice. Choose a different frame or use your brain and play better...

[@JQDeathFromAbove96]

14:35 this idea will be lost but what if the beams for his 4th didn’t sprout from revenant but rather he calls hammer of dawn beams down (not as devastating but more like his beams now just more vertical) I imagine them swirling around him closer then farther. The boost feature could do the same as before. Idk it might help with visual clutter. For a bonus they could have slain enemies leave behind pools of eidolon radiation which could buff allies who stand in it with damage reduction and also the pools could slow enemies.

[@sanga1380]

Revenant was my first frame Was bought for me to get me into the game. I just liked the spinning beams I found out later on when I unlocked steel path, that the ability I never touched cause I thought it was just a way to get free enthralls was the stupidest and cheesiest ability in the game. I stopped using revenant a lot. Mainly use him for rivens where I can’t take damage. Still my top 2 frames used being base and prime rev and I am kinda fine with it. But I wish it was something else.

[@Sci-Fi_Freak_YT]

I very much despise frames like revenant, but it sadly is necessary for players to play this game (which I find upsetting because imo that means the devs don’t respect the player’s intelligence).

[@finleymorris04]

Immortality isn’t a problem nowadays, you can make any Warframe immortal (part of why Revenant isn’t as cracked as some say), problem is he does it incredibly easily and lazily

[@bunduru0095]

I really miss some of those old corpus tile sets.

[@shanecoffing]

I don't mind revenant existing in the game, it allows people who have a tough time with games like Warframe to enjoy the content while learning, and also is a comfort option for people. People. I don't even own revenant or revenant prime, and my go-to comfort pics is nehza who does a similar thing. While I personally find slip and slide at Sonic speeds Much more fun , I can see why some people would like to be able to just focus on gunplay more. Rhino used to be this for people but revenant does just do it better. Warframe has never been a hard game, some characters just make it easier if at the cost of being less interactive. If they made eximus Shields take half damage from hard crowd control effects, it would make them a lot more useful and we would see a lot more diversity in the frames being used.

[@matthewvandyke3386]

tbh caliban can suvive now too his first gives energy health and sheild his 3rd stuns and makes them more vulerable to dmg 3rd gives a lot of sheild regen and 4th strips easily

[@ravenwitch5569]

Sometimes I just wanna shut off my brain and do late game content Revenant does that for me

[@BrownTreeFrogCollectorv]

Imma be real when I initially got rev I didn’t understand Mesmer skin so I subsumed over it with protea dispensary using Danse macabre and enthral and reave to deal percent health damage and was gaming

[@drizzledaddygaming994]

I have been a Revenant main since Helminth was released. Before the Eximus update, I was, firmly, of the mindset that Revenant was the most slept on frame due , almost exclusively, to his lack of a Prime variant. Then came overguard and I thought "Ok, he's still strong but feels more in line with other frames now and has a really demand for energy" then came Revenant Prime and Mesmer Skin-Gating and EVERYBODY is experiencing the ridiculousness of Mesmer Skin. I have said, and will maintain, if you took away his 1, 3, 4 and passive, Revenant would still be the strongest frame in the game. Mesmer Skin is SO insanely powerful, that any frame that has it, is the defacto best frame. All of this to say, as a long time Revenant Main, I 100% support and desire a nerf to Mesmer Skin and an overhaul of the rest of Revenant's kit. His passive triggers on shield break...when's the last time your shield broke as Revenant? 2015?????

[@NulKenos]

I got a video essay request: can you do the history of the stalker?

[@Lord_Chibi]

If Revenant got nerfed then everyone will go back to Rhino, or Inaros, or Dante. Zephyr is also literally immune to bullets almost like Mesmer Skin. At this point steel path isn't even hard when you have a Dante or Styanax etc. on the team giving out free overguard so you never die. DE is literally giving Trinity immortality. When you have 1 Trinity, literally just revive her if she dies. When you have 2 Trinities, neither one will be able to die. There's a chance Nyx might become immortal if DE buffs absorb. Wisp also can be "immortal" by spamming her 2nd ability for 3 seconds of damage immunity on top of her invisibility. Also, invisibility is slightly worse than Revenant, as it allows you to avoid almost all damage.

[@sweeney_bot1104]

Revenant is the definition of Warframe gameplay. Op character slaughtering hordes of bullet sponges. It's not the revenant issue of him being op, or messmer skin being op. It's a combat and overall balance issues. This is why many players can't stay in this game for too long. They just keep coming back to see what's new and then just leave to play something else untill next big update. Because the fun of being op doesn't last long, espcially when OP always means one of two things. Immortality or wiping rooms of enemies in a press of a button, sometimes both with the right combo of gear.

[@suhleap]

I work 55+ hrs a week, have a 6 year old. only really get to play warframe for 3 hours or so 1-2 days a week, so I can enjoy new content casually with gaz's revenant zombie build with torrid incarnon 😅 best prime access I've bought.

[@wyhiobcarlile4879]

Today I reached MR14 and have begun constructing my Tatsu Prime. I only main revenent to use the Tatsu better

[@mavolent6332]

the problem with revenant is that it spoils players way too much, immortality numbs every other sense, once you start playing with other frames you keep thinking you're immortal, so you keep playing as a revenant, poor mobility, mid to below aiming, no track of your abilities's timers and duration, nothing else you stop trying new stuff, don't use actual proper frames, you just keep stuck there with your immortality often being a deadweight like a inaros, immortality dosent bring anything to the table

[@jamescleary3383]

What if the mesmer skin amount was equal to your amount of thralls, but they couldn't be killed acidentally with friendly fire?

[@fredf96]

My least played frame, and for good reason. Rev's not fine, but whatever, gotta let them delulu pre MR19 hardstucks have their share of undeserved cake.

[@kristofegyed7813]

also Revenant has some really fucking cool looking fashion frame stuff and I mainly play warframes that I find cool looking sooo edit: revenant lowk has infinity too which is awesomesauce

[@dionisiogrecia5496]

Yeah yeah Rev is immortal sleeping frame His 2 is way too overpowered, 1 is boring and useless and 4 need something more, I get it But hating him bc of that is kinda stupid ngl (he's no Titania with Thermal Sunder) So i feel this hate is stupid and unnecessary, he's popular and casual yes, but he doesn't interrupt anyone's gameplay 😕

[@stanman3192]

Rev players in my experience can hinder from being extremely dumb and slow, even in level cap I have revenants that manage to go down. Revenant just inherently makes people worse at the game

[@Ssian_]

​@@stanman3192Cause people dont replenish their mezmer skin charges They forgot to recast or get nullified And dont use Entrall+reave

[@mcrain1283]

1 is not useless its good crowd control

[@FSniffer]

You're missing the point. Imagine if DE release a warframe that is a literal 3D default model with no skin and it only has 1 (forget about 4) ability that kills enemies in a 60m radius not matter ehp, armour, overguard. Is it OP? Yes, it's good, it's broken. Is it a good design? You tell me. That is Revenant's twin, just instead of infinite inmortality, he has infinite dmg.

[@Ssian_]

@@FSniffer But rev has infinite damage too

[@callanwilson3623]

Honestly i didnt even realise revenant was strong because of the invulnerability mechanic, i just wanted to make my own army and have them make more friends, he is caliband/nekros but better than both because he is a minions warframe with more damage than caliban and nekros and a larger army than nekros that is more useful I wouldnt care if mesmer skin was nerfed, ieep him as a minion frame and ill be happy

[@TheProphetOfThePan]

My friend and i use him for axi relic farming in lua disruption, just rev with roar, and a pair of incarnon dual toxocyst and badabing badaboom, lvl cap demolist dead in 5 second.

[@YSRGAMES]

With Ratchet & Clank music, you sly Umbral

[@SolarPhight]

Oh boy! He finally got off steel path level cap!!