the problem with romantasy

[@esverker7018]

The thing that always icks me out with romantasy is the way the book "sells" the male lead. There's this sense that he's not just the female lead's love interest and it's all confined to the book, he's also a love interest to ME the reader. The book feels blatantly structured around me having a vicarious interest in him. The dating sim energy is off the charts. There's a palpable difference between books where the romantic relationship is all their own, and ones where the author has the characters "turned toward you", like actors on display, aware that they have an audience to sell themselves to. It feels like being pandered to, because that's exactly what's happening.

[@MandyRulez]

@@esverker7018 Wait this is so true I never thought about that! Most marketing and even merchandise that is released (at least what I’ve seen for Fourth Wing) is all selling the male lead to us and completely erasing the FMC

[@oyindamolaoluwadiya180]

Oh my God, why is this so true. Most marketing are always 'when he tells her...', 'when he does this...' and never really about what the female does or even when the female does anything it's always in context to the male lead and never really about her as a main character or it's never even really about the fantasy world or magic except for the tropes.

[@WitchesRfun]

That's always how romance books been, not just fantasy romance. 😂that's literally the whole point you're reading a romance between two characters you can imagine yourself in, and it's supposed to give the readers butterflies in their stomach

[@imstillinlovewithmavencalore]

this is so true and i could never pinpoint this feeling until i read your comment. i absolutely love reading about great romances in books where both the fmc and mli are strong standalone characters and their relationship actually furthers the story instead of just...being there. like i only want a romance woven into a story when it is needed. if it's only to get the attention of the readers or for popularity it feels very forced and ingenuine. (hopefully that made sense lol.)

[@magicinthemundane9527]

This is so true! You’ve explained what I’ve been struggling to grasp for ages, thank you!

[@lauraroberts3520]

I think personally a lot of the time the genre “romantasy” is a misdirection. Because I find most of the time it’s not really romance. It’s just smut, pure and simple. It’s not about building a relationship and discovering new sides to the person you’re enamoured with and growing throughout the adventure and realising love. It’s just about the physical and that’s it. That’s why I feel a lot of the popular books that are supposed to be in this genre ultimately fail because they don’t really satisfy what I imagine for a romantasy. Not that I have a dislike for physical affection, but the narrative I believe should be more about emotional attraction rather than just the physical. That’s why I believe a lot of these books should be smutasy instead. I think it’s the better label for them ultimately.

[@wearesatellites91]

Romance means different things to different people. Building a relationship comes later, but in those first few times meeting, physical attraction is a HUGE part of what draws you to another person (atleast for most people) so ofcourse authors include that. Calling it smut seems reductive.

[@lauraroberts3520]

@ yeah I understand that thought. I just find it a bit too overabundant and also the language they use to describe those intimate/sensual scenes often feels very juvenile which kind of leads a bad taste in my mouth. That’s what leads me to labelling it smut, because the language is so vulgar at points that it feels unromantic. As I’ve said I have no issue with physical attraction or sensuality. Those are absolutely fine and of course are important. Also like you’ve said romance means different things to different people, which I wholly acknowledge. I just wish there was more variation in the genre rather than just the same over explicit and uncomfortable language used over and over again. It’s very tiring after a while.

[@nessyno-name3855]

I was at a social gathering after an event I went to recently and I was meeting the other members of the group. As an icebreaker I said I liked to read. The woman across from me (mid twenties, I'm 30, also a woman) grabbed onto that, and asked me "Oh what do you like to read?" "Fantasy and sci-fi, mostly." Her eyes went wide and she beamed and asked me "Have you read Fourth Wing yet??? :3 " I was honestly kind of taken aback. By "fantasy and sci-fi" I meant I was reading like Eragon and Star Wars Expanded Universe books when I was in middle school and what I read now is mostly "old" (ex: Dune) "queer" (ex: Murderbot) or "weird" (ex: Piranesi). I mildly said "Nah, the romance isn't really my thing." Another woman, a friend of the other one said, "Oh yeah, I got ahold of the first Throne of Glass book like you told me to." The woman who initially addressed me turned to her friend and said "Yes! And once you're done with Throne of Glass, you have to read ACOTAR! And once you're done with ACOTAR you have to read Crescent City! And Fourth Wing! And Iron Flame!" I imagined this must be what being on booktok is like (I never had tiktok.) It honestly felt a little alienating to me as someone who's preferred genre has been non-romantic adventure fantasy since I learned how to read to get clocked as "woman + fantasy reader = Fourth Wing" when I have net zero in a book like that.

[@WitchesRfun]

Forth wing and Acotar is fantasy. Cope. just because it has romance in it, doesn't mean it's not fantasy

[@stargazerseven]

I feel you on this. Ive never really been a huge romance reader either. I’d much rather have an adventure with found family or something along those lines. I’ve been actively trying to get into romance and romantasy but so many authors and publishers are jumping on the bandwagon and I see it everywhere. No hate towards anyone, But it’s like all the same story just told in different ways. A shadow daddy usually a fae and his rather scarily obsessive behavior towards the woman he hates but eventually deems his lover?? Like I do enjoy a good romance story but this seems like something else entirely. Smut is definitely a word I would use to describe it, but even that doesn’t seem to fully nail it on the head. I dunno the whole thing is just…odd to me. I had the same problem with yaoi for a while as the relationships were just very one sided and were very very unhealthy but I noticed that a lot of people mostly women we’re obsessed with these kinds of stories. Even today I still see the obsession on social media and as a psychology major I find it both fascinating but also kind of terrifying.

[@elizabethk4275]

@@WitchesRfunshe never said it wasn’t, but as someone who’s also been a long time fantasy reader, it is annoying when I mention my preferred genre and people laud fourth wing like it’s the best when it’s objectively mediocre in writing. like you can enjoy it but it doesn’t do well under literary scrutiny. I want books that are fantasy AND written well

[@alyssakay8549]

this whole take was *correct*

[@MandyRulez]

🫡🫡🫡

[@christak18]

Rebecca Ross’ other duology (A River Enchanted/A Fire Endless) is just as good if not a bit more since it includes 2 couples and their respective romances, and the magic and world was so atmospheric.

[@christak18]

Also, the more fantasy I read the harder it is to like some of these popular romantasy books. By the time Fourth Wing came out I was already over all those tropes. Nothing in that book was original.

[@moon-jackie]

ugh😭 im pre-mourning tiktok so thank u for posting

[@MandyRulez]

trying to do better at being consistent outside of my main platform!

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

I don't like romance at all, but fantasy has always been my genre - so things have been pretty lacking in terms of new books for me. But this is how the publishing industry has always worked, they'll just pick up what's trending and run with it until it's burned out - and unfortunately these are the kinds of stories that have been selling, but it will fizzle out too I'm sure... I hope. And don't get me started on how many of them are fanfics that they've just scrubbed, so then they save money on editors and the like - which has been happening since 50 shades. And fanfics just don't make good stand alone stories - they don't need to because they're not stand alone, the worldbuilding and characters are already done in most cases. And while the style of writing can be fun to read sometimes and can add a lot to a story, I enjoy a good (and not so good) fanfic every so often, it's not something I personally would buy. I get why people are attracted to it though, lots of fanfics are very easy to read - but one day they'll discover AO3 and realise they can read it for free, and hopefully the trend of publishers just picking up fanfics will wear off

[@havenskye4957]

Mandy! I'm so excited to see you flourish here on YT!! Followed from TT and about to catch up on all your longer format

[@MandyRulez]

Ahhhh I need to post more so thank you for being along for the ride 🫡🫡🫡

[@magicinthemundane9527]

This a wonderful video that’s spot on regarding the issue of the publishing industry where romantasy books comes into play. Also thanks for the recs! Definitely adding them to my tbr

[@elealion1469]

It's interesting actually... Because I had a similar period of time between 18 and around 23-24 yo, when I also hardly read anything. I guess it was because the amount of reading I had to do for my studies was too overwhelming... to the point that reading itself has stopped to be a leisure activity for me all together.

[@bentheoverlord]

Fantastic video ! And yes !! Warbreaker is romantasy ! Its my fav beauty and the beast retelling. Totally agree with the vid though, a lot critique of romantasy comes from sexist pov and not actually critiquing whats wrong with it. Like as someone who is discovering what "normal" romance works for them, and also a fan of romantic fantasy, my biggest issue with romantasy is it all feels the same. Like every year the new big romantasy is just the same book weve had before but the names are changed. I am hoping though that due to W&T coming out a lot of romantasy tiktokkers have started reading Sanderson and then moving on to fantasy in general and loving it, that we now might get that diversity within romantasy where books begin less like just trope jigsaws.

[@Smawlie]

So excited for Oathbound to be released in March! Legendborn and Bloodmarked were two of my favorite reads last year. I also think Brandon Sanderson has mentioned wanting to write a sequel to Warbreaker, but there are no firm plans or timeline for that at this moment because he has like a million projects going on. Came over here from TikTok, glad to see you here :)

[@abibelleseter6361]

What bothers me about the tropes is that they are overused and definitely not portrayed well. Like enemies to lovers is almost never actually enemies to lovers. AND DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE AGE GAP ROMANCES WHERE THE GIRL IS LIKE FRESHLY 18

[@kenziesharman7652]

I would love a full book review of fourth wing bc some of the things you brought up about ToG and ACOTAR I honestly wasn’t really paying that much attention to so I would love to hear what you have to say about Fourth Wing! :)

[@briannasilveira9247]

mynameismarines on here has an hour long reading vlog where she reads fourth wing and analyzes it in this way. she also has a similar video for throne of glass

[@cardboardtubeknight]

Warbreaker is getting a sequel in the next few years called Nightbloods. It also bleeds into Oathbringer and the rest of the Stormlight Archives. I…only know this because I was reading Oathbringer and was like “should I know this lady?”

[@pauieeepau]

I missed out on the romantasy trend during my reading slump. I notice I still like romantasy in webcomics, but I'm not that into it in novels. Maybe because I was mad at SJM for ToG so I ended up avoiding ACOTAR and anything advertised as ACOTAR-adjacent. The Korean webcomics with pseudo-European settings also heavily rely on tropes like time regression, isekai, or sunshine/dark pairings, etc., so they're hit or miss for me, but for some reason, I can still get into them.

[@elizabethk4275]

I thought one dark window was poorly written tbh but I’m obsessed with anything brandon sanderson lol. I liked throne of glass but I totally understand the white savior criticism (though I will say her presence is still remembered so it’s not at least just waved away). didn’t really care for acotar or fourth wing though. I’m really liking the poppy war rn though!

[@mattiemccarthy9102]

Wow hearing you talk I feel like I am out of enemy territory with booktok and booktube lol

[@Buggy1313-bug]

I’m so glad I was never interested in the romantasy genre as a whole and have never been big into fantasy or romance as their own separate genres as well so it made it easier for me to not get sucked into the booktok influence to read these books or Coleen Hoover. Booktok is a blessing and a curse and I’m glad I ended up on the right side of it where I get unique recommendations from all different genres and bipoc authors whereas typical booktok likes to push a lot of white authors.

[@Bbookobsessedd]

I've found this issue with romantasy books I've picked up through last year! It's pushing me out the genre

[@MandyRulez]

It definitely makes it so much harder to find the good ones

[@goodmanticore]

Regarding your Throne of Glass comment, Nehemia is a large character in the first two books. She doesn’t die in the first one, it’s the second.

[@racheldonna95]

Yes yes yes to Legendborn!!

[@MandyRulez]

Legendborn was so good that I’m scared to read the rest of the series because then the story will be over LMAO

[@ghostlyreina2966]

It’s crazy cause I would’ve ateeee these books up in highschool and middle school.

[@DragongirlPodcast]

I am quite a bit older than you, but I will say that Outlander was my gateway to fantasy. There is a lot of romance and the time traveler aspect. But, I was hooked. I have not read either of these you refer to, and I prefer the traditional fantasy novels without the "romance" as well. Sun Eater series is my favorite read this year.

[@inesbastos3113]

Love to see you on YT! Please please please try Reign&Ruin !!

[@heybethrenee]

currently reading divine rivals for my book club and it's so cute i love

[@MandyRulez]

It’s such a sweet lil romantasy 😭

[@SapphoAtTheMet]

Great analaysis, and I'm psyched for your recs. Have you read any of The Captive Prince trilogy or the Dark Heir/Dark Rise/so far unfinished trilogy, both by CS Pacat? It's a queer romantasy, but I would still call it romantasy, and it's BEAUTIFUL.

[@SLW-u5c]

I am.. in my early to mid forties....... Back in the day of MY high school, MY college.. all romance fantasy books felt the same. I remember dismissing the most grossest stuff because "eh, I've read worse" And i mean like "oh this guy was so lost in his desire for her that he grinded against her like some mindless dog against her will..... BUT it beats that other book I read where shes sobbing and crying as he forces her to jerk him off in a shower, because 'soulmates; and later he teehee Stockholm syndromes her... but it ALL works out in the end because.. she just ACCEPTS it and soulmates" There are so many tropes and cliches I love, but almost all are done wrongly and I find myself excusing most which shouldnt be, because I hunger for a specific genre but there just seems to be a lack of it whatsoever.. and i am not alone in still waiting for {.................} Story.

[@jaimep791]

So excited to see you on KZbin!

[@MandyRulez]

ME TOO THANK YOU!!

[@MVV-ft1zo]

I also wish there were fantasy books accessible for asexuals as well because I don't think I've ever seen a fantasy book that appealed to me so far just because major publishers are just going all in on smut scenes and spice :/ But that's just my personal take.

[@dianaisme]

I've read 3 romantasies and It's not the genre for me. Also I only sampled Acotar and Fourth Wing

[@berrdi2798]

I've read the first 2 ACOTAR books and am stuck on the third. I don't want to continue because the first two left such a bad taste in my mouth the entire time i was reading it (everything you stated about the tropes.) I only endured for my friend who loves it, but all the anti-girl tropes left such a bad taste in my mouth. Thought i was just not a romance person because of it. (Im not reading FW, that sounds like a "It would be good if you changed everything about it" kinda book. I also can't hate read.) (Fav character is the wolf dude who gets merked chapter 1. I feel like hes a safe enough character to like, hasn't done any anti-woman things yet.)((pls don't prove me wrong and let me live in blissful ignorance))

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

As someone who tried doing the same thing for friends in the past. My advice is just don't finish it. Put the book down and walk away. Tell your friend that you tried, it's not for you but you would be happy to hear about it from them. There's really no use forcing yourself to do something you don't like, because you're not going to be able to have a good discussion about it with your friend anyway since it leave you feeling bad

[@Chociewitka]

? in Fourth Wing the boy is not ages old?

[@MandyRulez]

Correct, however they still check off multiple tropes in Fourth Wing

[@KikiYushima]

Honestly the idea of romantasy as a genre icks me out. I've been reading fantasy since I was a kid. I picked up a legitimate high fantasy novel at, like 12-13 years old and I've been following the series ever since. I'm 33 now. The romance is my _least_ favorite part of this series (Green Rider). It's _much_ more fantasy based with some romance in it. After the "will they/won't they" for like 20 years, I'm _sick_ of Karigan and Zachary.

[@TheBookThing]

Interesting perspective. I read a couple of the ACOTAR books, they weren’t for me, but I’m not the target audience. And problematic as they are I applied anything that acts as a gateway into reading for non-readers. The publishing industry is completely cyclical. This has all happened before and it will happen again. This happened after Harry Potter blew up, then Twilight, then Hunger Games. Hell it happened in the eighties with horror after the success of Stephen King, the early nineties with thrillers after Thomas Harris and John Grisham. Every criticism you leveled at the rushed unedited sequels could have been verbatim from a review of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix when it came out. Publishing industry is a business like any other ie run by the execs not the creatives. It sees something that works and tries to replicate it. They only stop when the next original thing blows up.

[@Viksbelle]

Romantasy did not exist as a genre, just elements of it, when I first started enjoying fantasy (and sci-fi). Yes, I am old.😊

[@nataliemoon1512]

A great book (nonfiction) N.galilea books

[@ceci9570]

followed you from tiktok

[@RaniaFarislovesRoubi]

I read Romantasy but found the Hard Science, Dark Grim and Epic Fantasy more interesting (any Adrian Tchaikovsky books, The Last War Series, Dandelion Dynasty). I grew up reading Classic ( Pride and Prejudice, all Leo Tolstoy, Fyodor Dostoevsky - I love all of them) so I do not have a problem reading books with many words aka Hard Books as long as it was thought provoking and it leaves me an indelible ink on my part. The problem with the Romantasy itself... there is a lot of plot hole (Gothikana anyone?), unbelievable character behavior (Hurricane Wars by Thea Guanzon, ), and an Unsatisfying ending (The Spell Shop by Sarah Beth Durst) plus all sex no plot (Viciously Yours) and sometimes just all hype (To Gaze with the Wicked God by Molly X Chang). Sometimes, it's all too wordy that I just go to the ending (We Hunt the Flame and We Free the Stars by Hafzah Faizal) The only Romantasy book I would recommend for now is Skin of the Sea and Souls of the Deep by Natasha Bowen, Together we burn by Isabel Ibanez and The Last Bloodcarver by Vanessa Le .... I would prefer Zombie and Horror books (I devour all HP Lovecraft books as soon as they become available and I have my library card) but once a month I read, just to feel different

[@Jennis_Bookclub]

TALK ABOUT IT 👏🏽✨

[@MandyRulez]

🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️🤭

[@LibertyIndiaRose]

We all saw what happened with the YA dystopia, and I don’t want to see it happening with romantasy

[@mattiemccarthy9102]

Brandan Sanderson did make a neutral statement in regards to the genocide in Palestine (you seem like you really care so you would probably want to hear it)

[@SenKia9]

ive been deinfluenced.

[@youtubeaccount2429]

0:24 Could be any more bad faith?

[@MandyRulez]

@@youtubeaccount2429 unsure what you are saying 🫡

[@leighamontgomery981]

Interesting take. My thoughts: no one is being forced to read these repetitive books, and if they’re being marketed as “if you loved ACOTAR…” etc., then no one can claim to be surprised if they’re similar. Also, a LOT of people like the tropes. Like, I see a ton of videos talking about favourite tropes. Might you consider that by bashing these books for their tropes, you’re just putting down the readers (and as you said, mostly women…) who actually enjoy this stuff? Personally, I’m a longtime reader of various genres and styles, who really enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, and will soon eat up Onyx Storm. But I have no interest in reading ACOTAR. So the tropes in Fourth Wing don’t bother me because I read widely and haven’t been inundated with those tropes. If you like that stuff, there’s lots for you. If you don’t, you know what to avoid (but let people enjoy what they enjoy). And if, like me, you like a romantasy series but don’t just want more and more of the same, there’s lots out there for all readers. Really, why are we acting surprised that publishers are publishing what sells? They’re also publishing high fantasy and lit fic and sci and literally everything else. So everyone can just read what they want to read.

[@MandyRulez]

@@leighamontgomery981 Tropes exist in just about everything! My issue is when books lack in plot and character development and only aim to hit specific trope check marks. Of course people are going to read what they want to, but there is a conversation to be had on the lack of editing and development of stories specifically in the romantasy sector of publishing and how quickly they are pushing books out while promoting selling points that leave the readers wanting more.

[@nicolelincoln4223]

Just because everyone can choose what books they want to read doesn’t mean we can’t critique books that are subpar. “It sells” is not really a great excuse when most of these books are sold because of hype and marketing, not really on their merit. It honestly kind of sucks that we are now in the position of having to wade through gallons of low star material just to find an actually good book. Not that terrible books are a recent phenomenon. But a book nowadays can make gazillions off of pre-release hype and not have had a single clever thought put into it. It’s depressing.

[@nicolelincoln4223]

Also, Comparisons for books are also meant to be just that - comparisons. They aren’t meant to be a giant red flag that says “this book is literally exactly the same as ACOTAR with the serial numbers filed off”. I like horror, and, gasp, I am also widely read. I read horror books more than I read any other genre. Typically I pick up books often compared to those written by Stephen king. But if every single horror book I picked up was the exact same plot beat for beat with the exact same characters from King’s work, and the writer clearly didn’t care enough to think about it, or hire an editor, I’d be super pissed off I wasted so much time.

[@dkidoki]

all the books you listed are chefs kiss 🤌🏻✨ except warbreaker which i haven't read but now i have to !!