The problem with Sim Racing

Gran Turismo is huge. It brings millions of drivers together. Even though it covers largely the same sport, why isn't simracing growing that much?
00:52 - intro
05:52 - the problems
07:13 - Simracers dont watch simracing
08:39 - Doom and gloom
10:27 - Solutions
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[@flyingphoenix113]

It's not mentioned often, but technological intimidation is the biggest factor I've encountered that scares newcomers. I know of 4 men who are 40+ in my town (genuine car guys who do a lot of track days, some of whom still actively race) who want to get into sim racing, but are completely terrified of modding, having to develop/purchase setups in order to be competitive, setting up and tuning the hardware, etc. The average sim racer is quite a bit older than the average gamer, but with that often comes an innate intimidation of technology. Let's face it--its not exactly like you plug in a mouse and a keyboard, and you're ready to go like a first-person shooter. 😕

[@kdogg7882]

Tell them to buy a cheaper Logitech or TM wheel and just get into driving. You don’t need a fancy dd wheel or load cell pedals or button pads

[@Takdashark]

@@kdogg7882 I think purchasing the equipment for someone older is the easy part. It’s the set up of everything, getting everything to work properly, using all the different software available, and lastly the setups of the cars.

[@erikbueno666]

Yeah definitely true, I’m 32 started with a Thrustmaster set, few months later spent close to 10,000 on my new rig, once it was all out together I felt completely lost with all the software firmware files ect… thought about just selling everything, but I stuck with it wat he’s a lot of videos and now I’m hooked. I never even have a laptop before so it was a big step

[@XxPsykosXS]

@@kdogg7882 Well the wheel is not a problem here the real problem for this kind of people is to use a computer, setup the fov correctly, downloading softwares, tweaking the setup to match their needs. It might probably seem easy for you but for most people (especially older people) it is very challenging. Simracing is definitely not plug and play.

[@Takdashark]

@@erikbueno666 I’m 39 with a 2 year old and a newborn. I bought some good kit, and practice when I can. But time is what I don’t have a lot of.

[@TrackDayMedia]

I work at a sim racing venue in Canada, and inclusivity is our biggest goal. We love introducing new people to motorsports and sim racing. A good portion of our customer base has never sim raced before, and we frequently hear ""I need this at home" or "how much does a set up like this cost" It's honestly such a fun place to be, and seeing the excitement of someone who came in not sure what to expect from sim racing, and improving their lap time getting better.

[@griponreality9716]

I wanna work at a sim racing venue!🤤

[@kevin_m]

Whereabouts fellow Canadian? Sounds like a great job. I could talk hours about threshold braking and looking to apexes with newbies ha.

[@elbowsout6301]

We have one of these places in Dartmouth NS. It's pretty cool to be able to go in and race others, try out some motion rigs etc. Great bunch of guys work there and they seem to really enjoy talking sim racing.

[@TrackDayMedia]

@@kevin_m It's in Calgary.

[@cristianstoica4544]

You lost me at 'inclusivity'. If your goal was to make it a fun time for clients then that would have been worthy.

[@iHecta]

One thing if I may add is the negative bashing within the sim-racing community. There’s a sense of pride towards the title being driven and denigration towards others that don’t meet specific needs. It’s unnecessary imo. if you’re fast, you’re fast 😊

[@fan2hd277]

Thats the problem in gaming since the debate from going from Quake vs Unreal Tournament.... I've seen it all and Kids and grown up keyboard warriors are the problem. Its easy to be an ass behind a wheel at home than on a racetrack...

[@christiantaylor1495]

@@fan2hd277 It's easier to be an ass behind a wheel 😅

[@wdmeister]

Simracing community is extremely toxic and unwelcoming. Everything is locked behind the paywall. If you don't have good setup you end up last. And many more. This is a stupid game, it should be fun and you should be able to compete at the top solely because of your driving skills. Stop trying to replicate real life because it's not going to work.

[@RogueBeatsARG]

One of the problems of Racing Sim games is the fact they forget basic videogame concepts like progression, exept for Gran Turismo i cant name 1 sim game that has a decent progression or career mode today... i mean doing quick races and lap times is cool but most people need something more to motivate them to play, its like the sim community and sim devs forget that theyre still on a videogame after all... Also accesibility since not all people can buy a wheel.

[@X1erra]

Aand then you’ll have problems like setting up the game for sim racing venues if you need to complete the career to unlock the competitive cars… 😅

[@RogueBeatsARG]

@@X1erra GT7 has that problem? dont have a PS5 to play it. you could do a separate mode for multiplayer competitive and let you use any car in it

[@RogueBeatsARG]

@@X1erra kinda like how GT Sport does it

[@JZStudiosonline]

I don't understand how Forza fucked it up so hard and fell so far. The "career" in Forza 7 has some cool stuff on occasion, but every season has the same shit over and over.

[@neblolthecarnerd]

@@X1erra just have the competition online mode have every car unlocked. Don't run the game for singleplayer players (which is the majority) did the eSports tournament most people won't watch

[@h.k.7768]

To start with Sim Racing last year was best thing i could do. Yes you have to spend money for a wheel a rig and such things but for me it is worth every euro. I have depressions and anxiety, but if i sit in the rig i could forget all that for a time.

[@richardgg2889]

Thats true mate. When you race, there is nothing around, you are just here NOW. I like the sense of presence too, its relaxing.

[@TheRockyBalboa100]

I am happy for you, but you know, you should also work on yourself. Gaming to avoid depression or anxiety is not the solution. Working on your self esteem, like working out, reading books, increasing knowledge, having a run in a forrest, finding a purpose in life, will make you feel better and better. Gaming is good, but is not the solution. It is a short term solution. After gaming for 7 hours you go back to the same situation. But yeah, I just wanted to help.

[@thatopendiffdude9109]

​@@TheRockyBalboa100 So true

[@BayouJosh]

Fantastic observation! I just got into Sim racing in the last 60 days. I have nearly $3000 invested in my rig. And, as you know, I could’ve spent twice that based on the high end equipment available. I didn’t get into Sim racing earlier because it was a budget decision. However, I’ve been playing Forza and project cars on Xbox for many years. (With a basic controller) Like you said, low entry barrier. I’m sneaking up on 50 years old. I was a little intimidated by all of the technology and modding language associated with various titles. Kind of made me nervous to start. However, I learned quick that you can have a lot of fun with just a basic understanding. It is certainly a hobby you can grow into. Great video. Thanks for sharing.

[@reneaumpz3816]

there's a lot of content in the basic games that are on the market but in my personal experience i found that assetto corsa had to offer the most if u install content manager u have so many options in a pretty decent layout mods are just drag and drop the program does the rest for u. i now have over 100gb of mods installed so i can confirm it works pretty good xd

[@sepg5084]

$3000 just to get into gaming is a high barrier of entry, and as the video explains, that's why sim racing will always be a niche if it continues to be like this. Yes there are cheaper options, but good luck on being competitive. Unlike other esports where all you need is a gamepad or a mouse+keyboard, the gamers does not need very expensive equipment to be competitive.

[@SimRacingVeteran]

@@sepg5084- your equipment doesn’t need to be expensive to be fast. Look up Gregor Hutu. He’s an alien in just about anything in iRacing and he uses a wheel that doesn’t even have force feedback. If you’re fast, you’re fast. Better equipment just gives you better immersion. An expensive set up won’t teach you to brake or hit the apex.

[@sacame36]

On your note about esports event viewers preferring their favorite streamer's POV: My theory about why this is the case is that the opportunity to watch a driver's POV, all with actual driver reactions, being able to actually ask that driver your own questions (the chat), "radio" and team chatter, is never found in any other type of racing event in real life. The para-social aspect will definitely take this even further too. It's definitely an interesting problem for actual esports event broadcasts!

[@アマ-p2l]

Nürburgring 24 hour race has onboard-livestreams for at least half a dozen cars. A couple streams might go down, a couple cameracars are going to crash, but it's my favorite motorsports content. Pick a car that's running for first place, one that has to make up time after an incident, one that's fighting with another car, switch streams if the car gets to much clean air or a fight for position is resolved. Watching the race from a POV when it rains at night it's absolutely insane. The televised content simply doesn't offer any immersion compared to that.

[@SturdivantRacing126]

It would also help if sim racing communities were more inclusive about teaching players about racing, driving and racecraft. So many simracing videos critique that the equipment expectations are too high etc, but very few people talk about the importance about educating players about how to drive and race, so they not only have the skills to continue playing, but also can educate newcomers into the sport to reduce the barriers to entry. TL:DR - Teach more people how to drive properly.

[@Yabe_uke]

Thanks for making this video. Your opinions resonate with me so much, and I've been sim racing for 17 years. I've been trying to launch an "anti-gatekeeping" simracing channel for two years, and i think this piece you made is a wake-up call for me. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, all my friends are afraid of getting into sim racing precisely because of all the issues you mentioned and we do need more voices WITHIN the community talking about this and making this hobby more welcoming.

[@Ferrari255GTO]

It really does hurt a lot as a filthy passionate casual to know that the hardcore community is destroyng it's own enviroment through their stupidity, it hasn't driven me away from simracing, but it has from multiplayer on AC. I wanna chill on BeamMP because i feel like it's a better place to have fun but saldy i don't think my pc is good enough to run it right now. Edit: Sadly*

[@bikerboy3k]

simracing is about competition and results, you can't force that on people. Sure you make them welcome then they get lapped 3 times, now what ? It's a lot of commitment and sacrifice to improve yourself. If you can't do that, nobody can do it for you.

[@reneaumpz3816]

@@bikerboy3k i've gotten a fanatec setup 2 years ago and i still am not fast enough to compete with a lot of the community but i've had my share of fun and learned alot in the process... alot of people kinda forget that its not just gaming they have to learn alot about cars and racing in general before you even get close to a good laptime. but isn't that part of the grind? just rewatch some of u'r laps look what u'r doing wrong and repeat

[@oldboydog]

I was thinking PC2 before you mentioned it. For setups in particular, the career mode introduced scenarios that required setup changes, but did a decent job of explaining what you were changing and why. I find that the Forza setup system does a nice job of this too. Totally agree with you about gamepad support as well. While I don't like the driving feel in GT7, I do like that I can randomly pick it up with a controller to get some laps in, go for a license with a spare 20 minutes, or jump in a Weekly before heading out to work. Sometimes getting sweaty in a rig with an hour commitment of practice laps and setups is a bit too much in a hectic life. Being able to pick up a gamepad for 30 mins of casual gameplay, and the game modes to support it, is key.

[@jamiedh3036]

A key factor is time. You kind of mention it, but never hit on it directly. Sim racers tend to invest a lot of time in the hobby. The difference between hardcore sim racing (whatever that is) and GT or Forza is, that the former demands a lot of equipment, setup and practice time. Whereas GT and F tend to be more a pick up and play approach (notwithstanding eSports in both categories are putting in tons of time). This also goes someway to the equipment and game 'advice/responses' in comments sections/on forums. If someone is putting a lot of time into their rigs and practice into their chosen sim, then it stands to reason why they would mention this in any comments. Sure 'gatekeeping' as you say exists, but it's too simplistic to suggest someone is staunch on say a Moza wheel or Rf2 only if that's the only combo they choose to put time into. And what happened to the label 'fanboys' are we not allowed to use this anymore? lol Interesting that your suggestion is that for sim racing to grow, we must also see a growing eSport sector and eSport spectator numbers growing, why? For sure it's great for the businesses and individuals involved, but is there really some evidence to support this? Further, in my experience, time is a real factor as to why people do / do not watch eSport sim racing. I watched a few as I knew some of the competitors, but my time is precious, so I'd rather practice or spend time in VC with mates. If there is no evidence to suggest eSport participation (as competitor or spectator) supports the growth of the sector, then the point is moot - as you say, growth came about due to lockdown more than anything else. Lastly, most sim racers I know have been doing it for a few years. We all started out on consoles/pads, then on to 'reasonably' priced equipment. Reasonably priced equipment still exists on the market. I see the trend of manufacturers selling high end equipment but NONE of the sensible You Tube channels I know say it will make you faster. Do the manufacturers say that, as I may have missed it? It appears the market is offering everything that is required to get into sim racing for all budgets. But if you are talking about peer pressure to buy expensive stuff, then that is a different subject and one that you may choose to explore for another video. I see the points you are raising, and sure, the points you raise are cauition signs for anyone wanting to join in the hobby (except the eSports one), but similar things can be said against any hobby. A top pair of football boots; Adidas Copa pure (soft) £300, Nike Phantom's £260 are also expensive in the UK these days. And most players will tell you they need a new pair each, or every other, season. I don't see why any of this is a "... Problem With Sim Racing."

[@lucianp87]

I like watching live simracing competitions of the very good drivers. But I dont always know ahead of time what competitions are streaming. I wish that info was easier to find.

[@randomcallsign]

Great point!

[@e4td1rt44]

I have the same problem. I only know about them at the time a competitor is streaming it

[@reneaumpz3816]

i don't know about any twitter acounts but there might be some that post that info

[@imJGott]

The problem with Kaz comment about expensive equipment. He is talking from a standpoint of Sony’s console where you can’t use whatever wheel you want.

[@IntenseCrazyHarmony]

I mostly race on iRacing and couldn't agree more with the point that the user experience should be higher up on the list for the developers. Important info about how to set everything up is more often than not hidden in some threads on the forums. Great video all in all. We need more channels reviewing the budget stuff and getting more people to this great hobby of ours.

[@truantray]

The solution is fixed setup racing on fixed hardware.

[@IntenseCrazyHarmony]

@@truantray hard to see how that's a realistic solution.

[@adamstilldrives]

@@IntenseCrazyHarmony it's common sense mate. You don't have a bunch of cars on real life grid varying in so much difference like a gt3 car and at the back is a megane sport. Same goes to people with expensive gear vs people with a Logitech and a 550 graphics card with 8ram. It's about consistency and keeping the playing field easy-to-use for all people. Granted different classes for different abilities like the I racing structure but I racing is still missing on some key devs to make it mainstream. I have been studying sim racing since 2010. I have countless pages and articles written over the years and I even coach my 11 year old on a sim rig. He first learned to drive sim when he was 5, now he is at my level and able to play most games on their highest difficulty. Our next goal is for him to be on the grid at a virtual wec one day

[@IntenseCrazyHarmony]

@@adamstilldrives but my point is that it's like saying that the answer to world peace is that everyone just stops fighting. It would be great if everyone could be on similar gear, but how would you go about making that happen? In the meantime devs should make it as easy as possible for everyone to get racing with whatever gear they might have.

[@xxxLowrider1982xxx]

I love sim racing, but the biggest problem that I have is that I can’t think of another genre where an idiot can ruin the experience for you as much as they can in this one. I haven’t played ACC in a while because it got to the point where I was either getting wrecked or taking severe damage within the first 2 laps about 80% of the time. Spending 3 or 4 minutes in the pits in a 20 minute race is not my idea of fun.

[@ratatat9790]

Same mate...spending all that money and then not enjoying the experience because of this, is so maddening.

[@MichaelJP]

Yeah, with the bigger player base comes the griefers and just assholes in general, which also ruin the experience more often than not.

[@tonyyimbo]

AGREED great arguments in this video ! I have quite a few friends that are really Interested in sim racing but the moment they see the prices and how the community talks in the comment sections on Facebook groups and reddit etc ,they go silent and never bring up the subject again even the ones that are into cars irl . We need to change this .

[@Sl0wL1f3]

This. I had to disjoin the iRacing group in reddit. It was just taking the enjoyment away. I bought a membership, but from what I see it makes me leery to start.

[@tonyyimbo]

@@Sl0wL1f3 I feel you , it's filled with lots of racing incidents where they victimize themselves to oblivion . Honestly they need to work on a way to make crashing and ruining racing a bit harder . For example if you crash and want to rejoin a race make the car invisible for a moment until you get your bearings are safely back on track . This way your hours of practice don't go wasted and everyone stays in the fun . Sure it's not realistic but atleast people are having more fun . Secondly having a no damage racemode in iracing for example.would bring in a lot more people and more renewals .

[@tonyyimbo]

@randomCallSign6 how do I claim this prize!

[@beejaabee30]

Another problem I had was that sim racing had this aura of seriousness around it that made it really hard to approach in fear of doing stuff wrong and gaining a poor repution in the commodity Little did I know now I'm top 5 in safety for my league

[@アマ-p2l]

It's the opposite for me. They only take the competition serious, not the racing. I barely saw any sim racing that resembles real life racing and I watched countless hours of it. There's an incident right in front of you? Full throttle. Going 5 wide? Full throttle, no backing out. Dive bomb every corner. Just no, thanks. Not paying 1000$ for completely unrealistic racing like that, I rather go karting. Now I know you can have nice battles in iRacing, but the thing is I'm having nice battles in Gran Turismo. None of the 950 extra dollars I would have to pay for this garbage they call the best sim goes towards having better races so I'm not paying a dime. Arguably in Gran Turismo they drive better because of penalties and ghosting stops you from being able to punt people off to hard. But racing without incidents and wrecks isn't realistic either. So I find myself not being able to take sim racing serious at all, and the people who are very serious about it seem like clowns to me because like I said they dive bomb every corner and take every risk like only a handful of racing drivers in real life would dare to.

[@SHIZURAKU]

Lol, yea when I tried iRacing I remember how scared I was that I'm gonna fck up or spin out in some turn and everyone is gonna be mad... then once I started the Nascar and MX-5 rookie races I realized most people drive like it's warzone.

[@LeoDavidson]

Re cost, it's not just money but also space. A sit-down sim rig takes up a lot of room. Desk-mounted options exist, but I found them super frustrating, mainly due to problems with the pedals and wheeled seating both moving when you push on them; and they also got in the way of using the desk for other things or became too much hassle to get out each time. That said, I did once have a GREAT setup on an ironing board in front of the TV for PS2 Gran Turismo 3 back in the day. That worked well and was also easy to put away and get out again. So a sit-down rig isn't required by any means.

[@JoeGaffey]

Absolutely. We need better casual, couch friendly, handheld controllers.

[@timberwolf6048]

It doesn't really take up much space tbh. The largest that normal people usually make is 32" triple screen - that's about 1.2x1.5 metres or 47x59 inches. Possible for almost everyone if they want.

[@LeoDavidson]

@@timberwolf6048 You overestimate how much room a lot of houses in the world have. :D

[@FoxBox72]

I've had one toe in SIM racing for many years, but never got into it much more, for exactly the kind of reasons you mention. I also think all software should have what the original Gran Turismo used to have back in the day - step by step newbie tutorials and specific driving skill practice sessions. Hell, I think an entire piece of software based around nothing but driver training and novice races would be successful. Will keep people away from the intimidation of the big sims until they feel ready to take that step.

[@AidanMillward]

As a part time eSporf: 1. I’ll typically watch an official broadcast than an individual streamer if available. Because I want to support EVERYONE than one guy. 2. People will say that prize money and esports killed the enjoyment of sim racing, but there’s sweating and tryharding in your average small time banter league. 3. Exploits are going to happen. It’s the virtual version of a double diffuser. 4. GT3 stuff definitely has a bigger audience than open wheelers. It’s the only racing after all. 🤪

[@cat-yi9cg]

Once u are at a high level in sim racing the problem is so many people sim racing has no patience and don't seem to care because u can't actually wreck. Racing is not going for every gap. Only when u can be accident free is when u go for the gap. Normal and part time racers will never do this

[@labpong7562]

Please explain this to 90% of the lobbies out there in every sim! haaaaa

[@raithrover1976]

Many people, like myself, are put off racing online because we are paranoid that we're going to get in the way of a "high level" racer and trigger a tantrum. ACC is my favourite title but i rarely play online for this reason.

[@MrBlingclean]

The hardware companies decided to bump the prices up way too much. When I started I got a g25 for £150 and then upgraded to a t300rs for the same I also bought the fanatec v3 pedals for £200. Its because of greed

[@s3nTer]

Yeah, all the tech that has been released lately is only aiming at high-end tier market, completely forgetting entry and mid-tier users.

[@MrBlingclean]

@@s3nTer it all started with the graphics card market lol

[@nicolaslopez3987]

@@s3nTer not sure about that. It's never been cheaper to buy an entry level direct drive with Moza and Fanatec entry level bases. It's still pricey but more affordable than ever. But you are right that most of the HW and marketing is aimed at high end market, and this can be intimidating and communicates the wrong message that sim racing is not for everybody.

[@kisong1960]

I built up a gaming computer, Thrustmaster wheel, pedals, and shifter, Playseat, and a VR headset to get into sim racing, I found it super hard, and ended up using my rig for Truck Sim instead. I work long hours, and cannot put in the effort to learn a hard game on my days off. I just prefer listening to a podcast and going for long drives on American Truck Sim instead.

[@dukedub]

I’m five grand into my sim set up. In 2022 I played it 900 hours. It’s expensive but for the hours of use it’s cheap to me.

[@randomcallsign]

Clarification: Tom isn't like that because of the slow growth of simracing. Tom is like that because it's the natural pose of someone that does esports

[@kontoname]

Personally in the virtual world I always loved the fun events much more than the serious races. Cash rewards don't matter to me. A few fun guys ACTUALLY having fun, being there for and showing it is much more fun to watch than tryhards going after prize pools. I honestly never found sim racing too spectacular. There's nothing on the line to begin with. No risks, no material damage other than a degraded elastomer, no well being on the line. It's just... a game with okayish physics. And that said it feels almost silly to drive the same real world tracks and pretend. This gets especially obvious if you look at something like sim rally compared to the real thing. Big cash rewards? For what? I don't think it would solve anything but create an even more boring sim racing community. What I'd like to have seen is actually fully generated tracks - generated because where money is there's potential for abuse and I would bet that if it was just customized tracks for a race details would be leaked to gain the edge. But the attempts we had in that department have mostly been driving against the wall sadly. So what we're left is the race against gear and practice mixed with understanding of engine quirks and talent of course.

[@MrBlingclean]

@random callsign how about if every race wasn't about esports drivers? Bearing in mind its sim racing right, ppl don't turn up because it's the obvious ppl always, why don't they have race for stuff for normal sim racers, I know if I own a certain sim every month I'll be excluding the elites and let boys get on

[@karelknightmare6712]

Tom shows it well. ;) There is definitely a need to make casual and hardcore drivers coexist. Keeping beginners close to experienced drivers seems crucial to me, so that everybody helps to learn. A ranking class system with rewarding items influenced by these features should keep it fun : - ghost functions to prevent collisions, - recovering options to get back on track quickly or repair damages, - clear gap functions to learn behind faster cars, - racing lines, under/oversteer indicators, - realtime support from some AI crewchief to keep things vivid, - fully shared setups at least until 'silver' levels to not bother casual players. An ideal sim would include : - a multiplatform support, - good visuals, - a simple intuitive interface, - high versatility, from sport cars to high-end single-seaters, - many disciplines, sprint races, endurance, drift contests, - modding support to let creative players express their art ;), - obviously, a good physics engine to attract pro simracers and reallife contests sponsors, and share awesome replays. But even more so, the most important point to me would be a kind of Driving School like Gran Turismo. Stages could train you over and over again on different curves/sections, cars, weather confitions, setups, overtaking cases.... Without the hassle of tyres temperatures, warm-up laps... Maybe Assetto Corsa 2 coud bring that in the near future, it is very needed.

[@scottyost1237]

I don't play any games online. I bought a Logitech G25 back when they came out thinking that it would be fun online. Nope the wheel still works like new and I still can't even come close to an event due to additional $$$$$$$$$ because only a few can afford it.

[@PazLeBon]

@@karelknightmare6712 thats where iracing DO get it right, the progression is proven thbe best compromise

[@Dominik189]

Here's the thing about sim racing, for every one serious sim racer who's actually being competitive, taking part in actual sim races, you have AT LEAST 2-4 guys like me. Who love sim DRIVING. A lot of us even with decent equipment DON'T want to bother with races, or like in my case straight up are completely uninterested in "racing". Many of us like the driving sims with equipment to enjoy driving. I primarily play Assetto Corsa, I drive absolutely none of the AC tracks and very few of the AC cars. I literally modded it day one to enjoy driving free roam maps and touge, and even on touge I don't drive for times, I drive for my own enjoyment. And I know like 12 guys who are exactly like me, and only like 1 that actually does competitive sim racing.

[@G.Yam74]

There is a lot of PayToWin in Simracing. If there are two equally fast drivers, the one with the better set-up often wins. Real fair simracing should rely on a closed system and create the same starting point for all participants. Something like that works better on consoles than on PC. But the PC happens to have the better simulations.

[@MrCauebc]

Here in Brazil it is an absolute nightmare even to get entry level wheels (logitech). To get one fanatec combo (base+wheel+pedals) you will have to spend something around 4.5k - 5k reais (around $800) that is almost 5 times our min wage :(

[@SHIZURAKU]

Right? I'm using G29 that was given to me for free, but the idea of buying a Fanatec or MOZA is like a fantasy story. People where I live (Europe) make around 900€ a month. I'd rather save up for a track car like old honda civic or something than spend the same amount of money for a PC simulator setup.

[@HieronymousLex]

@@SHIZURAKU even in the USA, I’m not gonna spend several thousand dollars on a crazy direct drive setup. It’s completely ridiculous, somebody needs to innovate. I’d much rather buy a real car at that point

[@RcKuba]

There is problem, that to enjoy racing you need to be somewhat decent at it. In 2019 in my country, popular blog dedicated to one of racing drivers, started an iRacing league. It kinda well synchronized with pandemic, so season 1, 2 and 3 were big, around 90 to 120 people. Most of them completly new to simracing. 4 years later now, from this people maybe 10 are still racing. Most of them had enough of destruction derby, all of them were sure that it wasnt their fault. But they all simply lack racecraft. There were also reasons metioned here. Simracing being too expensive. Time consuming. Just like that all casual racers were gone.

[@RcKuba]

By decent I dont mean fast. But you need to know rules of racing, apply them during racing. Have awararness about whats going on around you. When you struggle on keeping car on track, then remebering about all this other stuff can be difficult. Also on this league we almost eliminated all toxicity. But it still didnt help keeping casual drivers

[@patient_zer0850]

Sim racing not growing is really caused by a combination of things imo: # expensive equipment (wheel/pedals/chair/monitor) - You like to be competitive and might get a snowball effect.. like if you invest in a direct drive, you also need a complimenting solid seat, good pedal set, monitor + stand. With this money you can also go on a really nice holiday, fix your car if it gets broken, buy a new washing machine, or a new scooter, or on another niche they are already invested in etc etc. # space to put the equipment - if your young and living at home, even if you have the money.. where are going to install your rig?!.. If your older and have your own place.. I live in NorthWest-Europe and renting/buying a place larger than 50 m2 is freaking expensive # time to play - If you have the luxury of having money to buy the rig and space to put it.. you are probably doing well in life and you have a job/career, pursue sports and/or other hobbies, social activities with friends, a relationship, household, etc etc.. You would also need some time to simply relax.. And there is not a lot of time left to race in a competitive way

[@rykerhasyounow]

I think you've missed a major point. When car culture flexibility becomes more restricted, people will have to turn to Sim to get what they want. The software is improving. The realism is bordering on real life. As rigs, wheels, motion platforms etc become cheaper and more accessible. Having a rig in the not too distant future may become something we expect. Because owning and racing ICE irl will become less and less accessible.

[@optimal9094]

As an ex- (online) racer, this video hit the nail in the head. The only bit I'd add is that as contemporary cars are boring, motorsport is even more boring in all classes, sanitized and bleached of excitement. If I don't care watching it, why would I be excited to race myself? At the end I found my new hobby in flight simming.

[@nikgavgav]

In second to third world countries even low-end equipment can cost as average salary per month(400$). And usually wheel's prices higher than in "first-world" countries due to poor logistics, low demand and absence of official retailers. So not many can afford it without HUGE commitment to sim-racing .

[@randomcallsign]

thats why simracing games should have good controller setup

[@nikgavgav]

​@@randomcallsign Yep. My getting in to sim-racing(driving) story. First i saw GT streams of one streamer i usually watch. Than i played AC on partially broken xbox360 controller it was hard, but i have lots of fun playing campaign and driving ae86 on Akina. After that i buy shitty 100$ wheel without FFB(still better than controller). Now i'm looking for something like G27/29, but probably can'not afford new one.

[@vyasrushi5177]

The reason why I respect Gran Turismo....no matter how much PC community criticise that franchise for its simplified physics, the fact remains that because GT simplifies its physics engine to accommodate controller players, it is bringing more and more new racing game fans towards sim Racing and that eventually moves towards hardcore Sims like ACC and iRacing....those hardcore racing Sims themselves are complete failure at bringing new audiences, that's why GT will remain The real driving simulator cause love it or hate it, it's the game that brings newcomers towards Sim racing

[@MichaelJP]

Like a lot of Sony exclusives, there's rumours GT7 is coming to PC, so this might change.

[@mattmattmatt131313]

Then why not accommodate keyboard users as well to even further that reach.

[@vyasrushi5177]

@Michael P hopefully it's true cause that would be epic and it would grow Sim racing further

[@vyasrushi5177]

@@mattmattmatt131313 PC port of GT7 is rumored just like all Playstation exclusives, it's just a matter of time

[@MichaelJP]

@@mattmattmatt131313 Racing on a keyboard? Ouch! 😅

[@BimmerDudeXi]

To me the biggest hurdle of getting into "sim racing" is the set up. Like myself who recently bought my first wheel and pedal set up. I don't have the space in my house to set up a rig, which I would love to have. I'm settling for a wheel stand and office/gaming chair to make it work for me.

[@SHIZURAKU]

Same for me.. I have my wheel set on a small desk and there are cables everywhere because of this stupid rented apartment that was obviously not build for a PC user, and the room where I have a PC with wheel etc is so small I wouldn't be able to fit here the whole rig comfortably. Or I would but it would take most of the space.

[@junsengjs]

As someone who got into sim racing recently, personally I find that options to mount wheels is rather lackluster if not lacking in practicality. Wheel stands are great but they still have the issue of not being able to move the wheel out of the way without moving the entire stand. I get the appeal of the full blown cockpit setups as well, but I really don't see the point of not being able to move the wheel aside, being able to game normally on a sim racing setup would be a nice touch but it seems that isn't in consideration when the wheel stands and cockpits are designed.

[@Dewm_]

I feel another step that is missing is the kinds of games that got us interested in cars in the first place. The arcade and "sim-cade" selection as of recent has been surrounded in controversy and lack-luster titles. Games like GT back when they focused more on the experience of owning and managing each and every car rather then being a "collection simulator" really helped develop a strong bond to these cars; while games like need for speed helped onboard us into the genre as a whole. These are just two examples in the genre, but that side of the racing genre has really died off; and I feel you really can't grow one without the other. The racing genre as a whole is sorely lacking a piece of itself.

[@wandrinsheep]

The problem with every sim racing game especially on pc is the barebones nature of the thing. You jump in you select your track and you race. There’s no element of gameplay, story or personalization(heck even custom liveries are a problem). At this point the realistic nature of the thing has been done to death people like myself want more outside of just a good physics engine. Give us some meta gameplay elements. :cars are purchased and entered into a seasons league(let’s say in game) :Winning curries favors with sponsors and which bring more in game money(sponsors can also be real world and provide with ingame liveries etc, this can be a whole monetization model for esports) : crashes and accidents and regular services repairs cost money you earn from your races(disincentivize rammers and bad driving habits, when you can’t afford your repairs you could step them down a class gt3>gt4 and until they can earn their way back up etc) : proper leaderboards ingame. Incentivize other class racing. :Proper ranking system Just make a the sim more enjoyable overall. Too much of sim racing exist outside the sim require modders and services implemented by third parties.

[@villanuk2394]

One of the biggest problems, and i speak from someone who used to Sim a lot, but less these days, is the games have become unrealistic in what they though was "realism" The specific point is grip. Anyone who has drove a sports car, knows full well your car will not spin going around a hairpin at 50 MPH, but a game like GT7 or ACC, you have no grip, its just not how a car is. The cars these cars, "slip" and Slide, its not how cars are and because of this, many people are bored or the difficulty level, which adds no value or realism to the game. GT7, the daily races, are often using hard tyres, that have no grip, so less fun, less racing and more crashes, who would to play a game like this.

[@lundiboy8]

I don't mind saving money for the gear if driving is your passion. It is the toxicity of people. Depending on the country you are from also, there seems to also be a set of racing rules that would fly in one country but not in another like racing lines, passing zones, backmarkers, etc.. You can race in the best/cleanest leagues out there but it still only takes one time to upset a sim racer for them to ruin your day and many others. That won't happen 100% of the time but imagine spending all of those hours and weeks doing setups and practice races only to be wrecked out because another driver is having a bad day. It is a waste of time to a lot of people than even if that upset driver gets kicked. It still ruins hours of your prep time and fun time. Punishishing someone in a game is not the same as real life so it has little meaning to someone that has nothing left but to troll people. All these big online races also having issues with servers and Ddos attacks.

[@mileshenessey]

My experience with Assetto Corsa online on PS4 has been described by your comment lol

[@Drako_RS]

The way i dealt with toxic people, try and ignore them (very hard, i know). just drive the best/cleanest you can and try to not get wound up by them. ive also never experienced a ddos attack (praying the day wont come)

[@jeremysumpter8939]

Iberia region is the most toxic region period. Anytime I race with anyone from there its like ALL race rules are out the window. I cannot understand why from a single region people can be so horrible, toxic, wreck you for no reason, just cant stand them place

[@iAstr_0]

This is probably the only issue I have, and is why I turned off voicechat in all the sims I play :) I make some simple mistakes that everyone has done in their time racing and get berated for it. It isn't fun, and is honestly disappointing because a beginner might make a mistake like going for an overly optimistic overtake, or just locking up on the brakes and nudging someone. It happens, but people make it such a big deal and probably drive some newbies away from simracing which is quite disappointing.

[@richardgg2889]

Yeah, sh*t happens. I used to be mad at the guys too, but now, I just tell to myself they can go to hell and I continue on racing. But I get why people get so upset about it. Its just like in real life. You are competing and without your contribution, you are out of the race. Out of the pack. Its normal to get angry at the person who spun you or whatever. I think its even healthy to be a little bit angry here. But dont give the spin back, there is no payback. The revenge doesnt work, doesnt make you feel better. Would be great if every simracer eventually figured it out. At the end of the day, we should be happy that we can compete with other simracers, even if they spin us.

[@Blerpa]

Real motorsport is already a niche compared to other sports and sport events like Football world cup, Superbowl and NBA, for example. Fifa 2022 World Cup has had a staggering 242 millions people watching just the final, Superbowl '22 was viewed by 99 millions in US only, and so on. Le Mans 2022 peaked a record 9.1 millions viewers during the weekend, Indianapolis 500 in 2022 was supposed to do a 5.5 million viewership number, it slumbered to 4.8mil. So too much ado about nothing. Sim Racing is not growing because it has no way to grow, so that is it. EDIT: I do watch community races and special events in Sim Racing. I like it a lot. I do not watch GT7 and other "racing" events organized similarly to LoL or other esports with people on site and cringey MOBA PC setups - they feel terrible to me.

[@DustySticks]

Outside the cost of entry the biggest issue facing sim racing IMO in no particular order. 1. Lack of focus in content. Too many sims are trying to be Jack of all trades master of none. It leads to a lot of holes in the car and track rosters. 2. Lack of focus on features. Too many sims lack direction that can help guide players, whether it's an immersive offline career mode, progressive license in MP. To call ACC's career mode an afterthought is an exaggeration. Open sandboxes are fine, but some people want a carrot to chase that helps provide them motivation play. 3. Ease of entry. Like what was stated, default setups usually are not great, and exploits are a little too common. On top of this most UI and even in game help is nonexistent to help new players understand setups, race etiquette, etc. Current sims and devs rely too much on outside sources for new players to learn the ins and outs and it just complicates getting into this hobby even more. 4. This hobby requires a lot of individual passion with the current direction of sims. Most sims are very sterile and lack an immersion outside of the driving experience. You either have a compromised on track experience with F1 games, but have a very immersive off track experience, or you have a basically completely sterile experience outside of the driving by choosing a "hardcore" sim. Both aspects matter, but the hardcore sim community scoffs any idea of improving off track immersion thinking it means they won't get their 10th tire revision. 5. Hardware/software intimidation. There is a lot of setup and tweaking required to get hardware working the way you want to. Software is also an issue. You current day sims still relying on txt files to fine tune things. It's again something that requires passion and motivation and is not as simple as a plug and play option.

[@person6171]

even cheaper logitech wheels are still rattly as fuck and make a lot of noise. they also just feel broken. there wont be a big sim player base until an entire direct drive sim setup is less than 300 dollars

[@steelwrath]

This is an expensive hobby not everyone has the comfort to buy proper equipment. Also it requires commitment and a lot of space. Thays why everyone prefer playing racing games with a controller on a couch.

[@benistingray6097]

If people driving sporty SUV are called enthusiast nowadays then maybe a little bit gatekeeping is not all that bad you know?!

[@JBBost]

I play Gran Turismo 7 on helmet cam mode with a T-80 wheel. I don't care if I'm a simracer or not, I still love it. That being said, I really do want a real wheel. I've gotten every single dollar back in pure joy from the Fisher-Price sized T-80 but I need the third pedal and the FFB

[@jamesfranko5098]

You can get great deals on used stuff on eBay etc. I got a t300 with pedals for £130. If you can get that. The difference to the t80 is lightyears. T3pa pedals are also very good

[@migmfreitas]

About simracing broadcasts and why I don't watch them: they are bad. Really bad. Cameras: I cannot understand how in simracing we have access to literally unlimited cameras and still from the broadcasts most of the times I can see part of the field through turn one, I see a crash starting that goes off camera and the focus keeps on the battle for P5 somehow. Replays? Most of the broadcasts don't use them or we have to wait 5 more laps to see a car on the aftermath because they can't find the correct angle. There are exceptions, that I really do enjoy watching, but most of the times is just not worth it. Commentators: In the races that I've been part of, I was the son of Eduardo Freitas and the WTCC driver Miguel Freitas, and some other crazy stories. I don't know who the commentators are, neither have I talked with them, stop making bullshit up. Same about people I know, most of the times are lies or made up things just to hype the lack of action in the race. Having seen this I can't take the commentaries seriously. Information: I just can't understand how most of the times, I can have a better picture of what is happening in the race by seeing a streamer POV, with mic muted, instead of watching the official broadcast. I am not kidding.

[@katukas3968]

About camera choices and replays you need to have ability to do that from game technicality and a bunch of people to monitor each scene to catch moments in seconds or prepare replays. In real life races, there are so many people responsible for simple broadcast, and it costs a lot of money, so it is hard to do same in sim races as it costs a lot and event isn't that popular of course to invest in that quality of broadcasts. But still sim racing events are so bad with simple broadcasting not having that hype and entertainment for viewers or even lack any basic knowledge about the race or cars. For example, even the simple task on LeMans virtual 24h race, broadcast didn't even show gt3 cars crossing the finish line, they showed the whole time LMP's already finished, standing in the side of the track for 5 minutes. Huge disrespect for half the grid of racers, who were preparing for months to attend this "Biggest sim racing event of the year".

[@netgamersk]

I'm simracing for a year now but compete tively just for a month in ACC. I watch simracing on KZbin because I generally enjoy watching motorsports but I also watch simracing because I want to get better at it. There are 2 big issues I would say: entry cost which is even higher when you just don't want to play one game (you want to play dirt rally or drift in AC which requires shifter, clutch pedal and handbrake to enjoy it fully - so just entry setup with t300rs, pedals, shifter and handbrake costed me around 600€). Then there's big issue about time commitment. It's no secret that more time you spend racing better you get. But you need to spend a lot of time. And unfortunately in games like ACC you need also a great setup which can make up to 2s difference per track. Without setup forget competing in higher leagues where every tenth matters. But these setups either cost you money or require you spend even more time learning and testing. Which is not really a negative effect but on the other hand if you are someone like me who races in free time after the work or in free days then you value your time extremely. And you just don't want to spend 3 hours testing a setup on a single track. So this can be a hard pillow to swallow and it creates a thick mental barrier.

[@netgamersk]

@randomCallSign 👈 ÓN TÉLÈGRÂM stop spamming stupid bot

[@Collsaur]

Finally someone shout it out easy to access for beginner is one of the most important part in every world GT and Forza along with some other sims did hyper carry it meanwhile i can hear somewhere : NO NO NO NO WE DUN NEED EASY WE NEED MORE "REALISM" NOT REALISM = NOT SIM!! REALISM REALISM I WALK REALISM ! I EAT REALIM! I SHET REALISM! EVRYTHING IS REALISM! lol

[@efemji]

but really though, i got into dirt 2.0 recently and i can't even make myself play arcade racers anymore.. just feels weird and less challenging

[@dinkidink5912]

I've been sim racing for over 20 years, it will always be a niche hobby and there's really nothing wrong with that. I don't see a super compelling reason why it needs to keep growing, iRacing is my main sim, its increase in popularity over the past few years hasn't made the racing any better, in fact official racing is now worse than it has ever been. The difficulty of getting sim titles setup is an issue but to a degree it is the nature of the beast, to use iRacing as an example if you seek out help you will find a ton of people who will be more than willing to help you. Your point about there being a perception that racing cars are super difficult to drive and that the more difficult a sim is the more realistic it is is a valid one but at the end of the day sim racing is not an easy thing to do. This will always be the biggest barrier to entry, the time and effort needed to practice and improve your skills. There is no real short cutting this, no matter how "accessible" you make it. You will never have the same degree of control with a controller that you get with a wheel and pedals and if you take the hobby seriously you will have to invest in a wheel and pedals at some point. This is before you even get into the whole competitive side, this takes serious dedication to even be mediocre, this simply isn't for everyone or even most people and that's fine, not everything is meant for everyone. Finally the whole esport thing, I have no real interest in it and I don't see it as some sort of requirement to have a popular esports side to sim racing pushing its overall popularity. This is a bit of a horse before the cart type thing, popular esports grow organically out of popular games, not the other way around. There's a reason most sim racers don't watch sim racing broadcasts and that's because if you want to watch a racing broadcast you can watch the real thing, why would you watch people driving pretend race cars. Watching a streamer however is different because you are seeing their pov which is closer to what you personally experience when racing yourself. Not to mention the top splits of the most recent Spa and Daytona 24hr races showing that most of the "Pros" are cheaters, why would I watch that or the total disaster that is the Le Mans 24hr every year.

[@ultrapaiva]

Yes, the user interface could be a million times simpler and more appealing to the newcomer. When I joined iRacing, I had to go through tons of KZbin videos and Reddit forums to learn the basics. It’s like going to sim racing university and, even though I managed to graduate, I don’t think it should be like that. Some people will log in with the expectation that things are going to be simple and straight forward and just log out forever when they realize they’ll actually have to put in the effort to learn how things work.

[@reneaumpz3816]

its sim-racing not sim-gaming i think a lot of people forget that xd if u don't want to learn how to race why invest all the money in a racing setup...

[@nik021298]

@@reneaumpz3816 Flight Simulators, and the biggest one MSFS, are nowhere near that obtuse. MSFS has intuitive tutorials interface and sort of "missions" for you to learn how to simulate flying an airplane. Using controller, keyboard and mouse or a full sim rig. IRL taking an MX5 or any other around a track is much easier than flying a Cessna. I don't see why, for someone new, simulating a car should be that much more intricate than a flying Sim or actually driving a car.

[@SHIZURAKU]

@@reneaumpz3816 I don't think he's complaining about learning how to "race", he is complaining about how annoying the menu/lobby is when you sometimes don't even know how to start the race or where to tune your setup or whatever.

[@reneaumpz3816]

@@SHIZURAKU yeah realized that after his second comment he does have a point😝

[@matt355]

You said it in the first 10 seconds. Lockdowns gave it a artificial boost. Many who took to it in 20/21 have dropped off. But there's no doubt its way bigger than it would have been without covid. It definitely drove development in gear as well. It's a net positive. But growth has obviously slowed.

[@nicolaslopez3987]

In my opinion, Sim Racing could really expend if we had a decent DD affordable for the price of a PSVR, with a game included in the bundle.

[@MattO109]

Sim racing is damn too expensive. $1500+ for a direct drive base, wheel and rig. Plus another $1500+ for a gaming PC for an average/slightly above average setup. Currently I run on a TMX pro with upgraded pedals (TLCMs) on a dedicated desk mount with ropes tied to my gaming chair, using an Xbox for AC and ACC. All that cost me around 700 dollars, still rather pricy when you compare it to playing on your gamepad. Now I love my setup and it proves you can sim race on a budget, but over the last two years I have gotten more serious and if I was to upgrade my rig it would cost me anywhere from 2500-4500 dollars, thats a crazy buy in price for a hobby, not to mention games like IRacing which continues to add onto the cost. Thanks for reading my Ted talk.

[@Starmast3rmusic]

I think the ceiling for how much sim racing can cost is very expensive, but honestly that's only reserved for the serious or the people that have loads of money to blow on casual stuff. The main issue is the marketing machine creating that perception that you need a $1500 direct drive base to be competitive or to have fun. You can have fun and even sim race with a 30 dollar used DFGT. Plenty of people sim race with g29s or older wheels. You can be very competitive hardware-wise with a t300 which costs a fraction of $1500. Even the fanatec or moza mid-range which is honestly all anyone ever needs is around half of $1500 at the most. Gaming PCs are multipurpose, so many people build them for various reasons and happen to sim race with them. Even half of $1500 isn't cheap, but I think the $2500+ is an exaggeration. Regardless of how much the high end of sim racing costs, it's still much, much cheaper than buying the real thing.

[@MattO109]

@@Starmast3rmusic Yep I have a starter rig and love it. Been with it for two years. But your idea that you can be just as competitive with a g29 is a nice thought but its simply not true. My neighbor has a relatively expensive rig and my times are 2.0 seconds quicker. (I run a 1.49.6 on my setup and on his I run around a 1.47.6, and I got that time with very little practice) When you get to higher splits and the margins are a lot smaller you can only squeeze so much time out of the hardware you are running, yes are there probably some Aliens running 1.46.9s on a TMX, but does it feel realistic and delivers consistency… no.

[@cavemanindustries5102]

6:46 I’m not there yet but I’m trying to edit my videos to have a more exciting vibe. In essence I’m trying to make my videos feel like you’re watching a drifting video. After racing for hours I don’t want too watch a 20 minute video, but 1 or 2 minutes of action is different.

[@martinwobbly9230]

LOL I unsubbed some time ago and this video made me re-sub, I totally agree. We talk about things like the CSL DD being great entry level at hundred of dollars - this is crazy money to the casual gamer who likes cars and racing. I bought a driving force gt and raced on my sofa and it was amazing. My sim racing mate saw this and took the piss out of me. I now have 0000s invested in sim racing and i dont regret it one bit. BUT i was super happy with my $80 wheel and pedal as it was streets ahead of a gamepad. We need to make entry level good enough and get rid of this elitism. Its just a game! Well done!

[@randomchannel323]

Yeah and don't forget other equipment like a sim rig to mount the wheel, pedals and seat and also gaming monitors. Also you need a gaming desktop because a laptop is just not ergonomic and useful for a sim setup

[@philmepowers]

I was a pc gamer that switched to console because of the continuing rising cost of upgrading a pc to be able to run with good FPS with good graphics....consoles work out cheaper in the long run......had a g25 for 15 years and recently upgraded to a direct drive setup and hope that it will last just as long .....just look at the price of rtx 4090 or even second hand 3090 let alone the rest of the components needed for a pc

[@katdaddy469]

I bought my die hard controller using brother a brand new driving force wheel but he still insist on using the controller. After 15 minutes of trying to dial the controller in with ACC he gave up and switched back over to GT. I guess it must be a majority of people without a wheel going through this same issue with some of the more dedicated sim titles.

[@bakalyero1461]

For a lot of youngsters especially students like me the biggest hurdle is money and space. A used G27 with shifter costs around 200$ in my country. I use my laptop and finding a big enough space where i won't bother others is impossible.

[@AKK5I]

It's a niche genre, racing games, let alone simracers, don't see the wide spread appeal of shooters or mmos

[@randomcallsign]

Gran Turismo and Forza are huge. Gt esports is also huge. Why aren't those drivers and viewers coming into a niche that covers basically the same thing?

[@AKK5I]

@@randomcallsign they are relatively large, but still small in comparison to other categories like sports games and RPGs/MOBAs. I feel racing games don't deliver the same kind of addiction and dopamine as clicking enemies in shooter/mmo. It's a lot more harder to get into racing games, especially circuit racing ones. You have to master a skill and learn a map that you drive thousands of laps around. Mainstream audiences don't seem to find the fun or have time for that. Also GT esport pales in comparison to other esports and PD has strange management with the events and there doesn't seem to be any commercialisation in it Racing as a genre is just niche, you kind of "have" to be into it. Just like how F1 fans are into the racing that football/tennis fans won't understand. I have several car enthusiasts that have played forza/gt but no other racing sims besides a bit of AC because racing just doesn't really interest them. The problem with racing is, it's exactly that. It's a RACE, you are in a competition with a dozen other players and only ONE player wins.

[@Blerpa]

@@randomcallsign still plenty niche and minor compared to any other leading mainstream title in other categories.

[@Voodoo_S3]

@@randomcallsign don't 'sim racers' kinda frown upon GT as not a sim, played a fair amount of GT sport don't think I'd call it a sim, decent racing game but not a sim, not played the latest GT tho

[@sendmymessages2635]

🤔 With the rise of casual games, where you can pay to be privileged/SPECIAL, For Sim racing, you start up front paying to be equal/standardized, then your skill/talent can shine thru. The current generations like to be SPECIAL/ENTITLED. Ever seen the prices on the stuff they wear? 👀

[@kristianask]

As a sport it's not expensive. You can buy a pretty cheap setup and still be very competitive. Then you don't need more than commitment. It's the enthusiasts that claim you need to spend $3k+ on a rig to compete.

[@PeteJarramSimRacing]

The problem with sim racing (from a KZbinr's point of view) is that true sim racing titles aren't released very often. We have AC, ACC, AMS2, iRacing, R3E, rFactor 2 and maybe one or two others. Each title will be either updated or get a sequel every three to five years (as tech improves). Now compare that to the amount of other games that are released each year. KZbinrs that play these other games can present a new title to their audience every few weeks, whereas our audience just sees the same cars or tracks until we get updates with new content or new mods, and it is a struggle to bring new subscribers on board.

[@LeroyRallyX]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Having spent about 10,000 Australian dollars on a decent setup I'm very aware that that's not the case for the majority of Sim races. Although it doesn't make me faster the immersion is worth the price.

[@Redrash12]

Its not growing because you need to spend at lesat $300-400 for an even half assed beginner set up, and that's before a decent computer to be able to run the sim at at least 60 FPS consistently. Getting the most out of sims has a very high barrier of entry, as opposed to 99% of games which can be enjoyed with just a gamepad/mouse and keyboard.

[@zainhaider8362]

Hardware is a huge issue. Not just the price but also the amount of space that the wheel, the chair, pedals with all the cables makes it so the setup cannot just be picked up and put into a draw like a joypad after a session. Relating to price... I bought a secondhand g25 many years ago from eBay for dirt cheap price and used it for several years. So you can get a wheel for the same price as a ps5 joypad. I think cross play will be important going forward. I don't believe that consoles are not equal to PCs. Finally GT is popular because it has had the might of Sony behind it for the last 20 years and is a flagship game for every Playstation that has come out where as the sims on the pc have nothing but word of mouth.

[@richardgg2889]

Im gonna write my unbiased comment even before watching the video, because I was thinking about it lately. I did basic research on numbers and simracing is simply put stagnating last couple of years. Steam stats yield these results: Assetto Corsa is most played with like 6000 concurrent players every day, but stagnating many years. AC Competizione has like 3000 concurrent players every day and this number has been growing after release in 2019, but today is stagnating again. And iRacing I dont have exact number, but it should be around 12000 players every day. This to me means simracing has two problems. One is the input costs: to truly enjoy yourself playing sim games, you need to have at least decent wheel like G29. This is like 300$ in my country and most people can afford it, but imagine you didnt try simracing once and now you have to pay 300$ and hope you will like it. So minimum people reach into it like that Second problem is the difficulty: most people, when they first try sim, they dont like it because its hard, they crash, they dont know how to brake etc. Simracing games are known to be frustrating at times and when your abilities are weak, It makes a horrible first impression. Maybe final problem for me personally is sometimes lack of enjoyment. I have no friends playing simracing games and on my own I can spend like 2 hours playing ACC and then the enjoyment wears off. There is no music, there is nothing, you just have to concentrate for so long. Trust me, I love racing and I put many hours into in last couple of years, but simracing just isnt as fun for everyday playing. The Gran Turismo or Forza are just better if you just want to relax.

[@Slink9]

Im very fresh on sim racing and my setup is made of cheap equipment i feel good with it the problem im having is im trying to get information how to improve my driving and i realise everything that maybe can really help me is behind a paywall everyone trying to sell setups for cars, track guides etc, this is a very big problem people now days only think in money and do everything to get some. i remember 10/15 years ago in live for speed for example where everyone share their setups and help each other to improve, everyone feels so good and motivated. i recently come start playing sim again and im felt very sad with the comunity in general. everything is very expensive but now with all this schools and courses and setup things i maybe give up and the hype to keep playing will dissapear slowly. Which u all good races boys cheers !

[@randomcallsign]

Setups won't improve the driving

[@superninja252]

It sounds absurd for some and others will yell at me but i think sim racers games need have more gamepad and all sorts of controller support, and i mean FULL suport, making it have the closest as possible peformance of a high end racing wheel It will surely lower the bar entry and will make more easier for people get intro, specially if game has good gamepad support

[@jonnyb1990]

Yeah I often find it a bit heartbreaking that when you get new guys, they feel the need to publicly apologise for their existence and put their experience on hold to completely get out of the way of any car that comes within five seconds. Don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else in gaming or even real sports I’ve played

[@hyphydan]

Well that happens on real race track too, no? Let the faster car pass?

[@jonnyb1990]

@@hyphydan that depends if you watch racing or formula 1 😏

[@NagaRacing]

Thanks for this talk, I really enjoyed it. Don't forget to start chapters with 00:00 to make it works on the description

[@wdmeister]

The biggest entry barrier is not a wheel but setups. People want to race and have fun in their spare time. Not to seat for many evenings in the setup tab and motec only to be able to compete on one track. You look in the wrong direction. Most people can afford 300-400$ for an entry level wheel but they can't afford TIME!

[@podio_km4g532]

A small problem is that you can either have the flexibility of AC or the straight forward of games like ACC/pc2 ecc... Doing both it's extremely hard. For everything else I kinda agree

[@parker73724]

I honestly think gatekeeping is probably the biggest obstacle to sim racing. People insist that you cannot use a controller in a sim and that you must have a wheel to have any chance. I have seen many people in sims using controllers and its a great way to get into the hobby before buying a proper wheel. Also, people will play in public non-competitive lobbies and yell at noobs for being too slow even when the new player tries their best to get out of the way. The sim racing community seems to like to shout at players for their mistakes rather than coaching them. Also, I just don't think there is enough sims that successfully pull off the rating system. When playing assetto for instance, you are dropped in a lobby with both extremely competitive and entirely new players. This makes the sim no fun for the new players (because they can't beat anyone) and extremely frustrating for experienced sim racers (because their race is ruined by lapped cars). Also, new players will push themselves in every turn to try and catch up with the competition and crash out more often because of this.

[@Dexter037S4]

This is why I love Richard Burns Rally, you will be faster on a wheel, but NGP7 physics have been balanced for gamepad usage, I've won a championship outright going against guys who ran on wheels and pedals, with a gamepad.

[@NicoAssaf]

Yeah, NGP7 RBR feels very good on a controller. Hands down the best gamepad experience I've had in a racing game (compared to AMS2, Dirt 2.0, ACC, AC, BeamNG and some F1 titles. GT6 being the exception, maybe). ACC feels kinda decent though.

[@krazivan7587]

In my humble opinion sim racing suffers from a few problems but two stand out for me: BoP offers poor balance in practice and results in higher tier racers all using the same car, and having to use track meta cars gets stale for the more casual racers (this is a bigger problem in Gran Turismo but also prevalent in other sims). Secondly, the on-track toxicity and lack of sportsmanship alienates all but the most stoic and committed of sim racers, getting punted, PITed, and side-swiped repeatedly gets old very fast and casual drivers will simply go back to NFS or GTAV. These problems mean that only those that are serious about sim racing or have invested serious money into a good racing rig (wheel, pedals) will stick around. It's up to the community to decide if we only want serious racers (including toxic ones), or if we want to welcome a larger number of casual drivers into the community, however without addressing the above problems, these casual drivers will not want to stick around for the long term.

[@mondodimotori]

1:55 KEK, I still use my Driving Force GT. Even after it stopped working a few months ago, it's so simply constructed that I repaired it myself by cleaning the optical sensor. The only thing I would upgrade would be adding an H shifter and better pedals. The wheen itself it gets the job done in any scenario.

[@chadog]

Biggest issue : Barrier for entry. Everything is getting expensive plus gear sticker shock for the casuals makes sim racing a hard pill to swallow for the regular guy

[@human2137]

I feel like sim"driving" where people just cruise around is more popular than hardcore racing, but no games offer good simulators where you can freely drive, except for modded assetto corsa or arcade games like Forza. more diverse games are what we need

[@jinx20001]

i think you missed the most important issue, i think its simpler than the price of entry, sure the gear to actually simulate racing is expensive but its even less attractive for most people due to the sheer lack of games to play. Developers that are actually focused on creating racing games (particularly sim racing games) are few and far between and because of that there seems to be no real incentive to make games more regularly, it would require more staff, more money spent and for what, the player base is small and competition in the space simply isn't there. What we end up with is the majority of people playing a racing game from 2008 that looks like a game at best from 2013 and any kind of real competition for it is non existent... at best we get games like assetto corsa competizione come along and that's it for 5 years plus. Games like GT7 are great, but we know its all we have for years and years because they milk it for everything its got to get the return and make profit. We cant even blame the developers either, what incentive is there for them to make games when most sim racing games pull in such a small player base? we all want Rfactor 3 or raceroom 2 and such but they will almost certainly never happen because there is no incentive to spend millions developing them for what will likely result in no return on that investment of cash and time, we should think ourselves lucky games like automobilista 2 get fairly regular updates because i dont see how we will ever see a number 3 it pulls in a couple hundred players at its best and the studio must be scraping by. The reality is as racing game fans theres only so many thousands of hours you can put into a game before it becomes samey samey and rather boring, i have very good hardware (simucube 2, heusinkveld pedals etc) and i just feel at times like it has been a huge waste of my money because i spend thousands of hours at a time in a small handful of games that are all years old, nothing fresh, nothing new... its really not exciting anymore, we crave games like rennsport simply because its something new FINALLY but the reality is it will probably pull in 500 people, the online servers will be 3 strong and it will be another waste of time for us and the developers.

[@DjFIL007]

"sheer lack of games to play"... what? iRacing, AC, ACC, rF2, RRRE, AMS, AMS2, NASCAR series, F1 20xx, DiRT Rally 2, WRC Gens... Rennsport coming... there's tons of options, it's almost we're over saturated, especially as the community basically expects these to be "live service" games (even when not under subscriptions) and that they'll last them years. This is different than a story based game where you play thru once, then it repeats... where racing people are willing to race the same car/track again and again (look at multiple different games and how it's always GT3 at Monza or Spa, no matter how much combos are available in any given title).

[@jinx20001]

@@DjFIL007 well you might be happy with the lack of choice in racing games but some of us are not... you think naming games that are 10 years old is good choice? AC, iracing, RRRE, dirt rally 2, ACC.... all of them are years old... not 1 year, not 2 years, were talking 4 years plus. i mean how far do you want to go back? sure there are hundreds of racing games if you want to go back to 1995 but its a sad situation when you are reeling off games that are many years old and a lot of them look and feel it, only rescued by mods because we have to wait literally 10 years between assetto corsa games. Is that good do you think? you are happy with playing AC since 2014 and the next one is due in 2024? sure we get a spin off halfway between them, woopdy do, thank god for that. compared to almost any other genre of game its lacklustre, especially when some of us spend thousands on equipment. Sure we get a yearly f1 game but the consequence of that is they are minor updates without any real substance or true simulation but 10 years between assetto corsa games with a spin off 5 years after AC?. the only true ''live service'' option is iracing and that's because people have spent so much money on it they wont ever let it go, nothing else is live service, almost everything else is dead online, rfactor 2 dead, RRRE dead, automobilista dead, the developers know it and thats why you can be sure they probably wont bother with another one, does that not bother you?. I will agree that ofcourse we are happy to race the same cars and tracks over and over again... my issue is the lack of innovation because of the lack of new releases, a new f1 game yearly does not count because that is more a sport game created for the masses using a controller. There is no advancement being made besides the odd small update here or there, if we seen more regular releases we would see far more innovation that keeps up with the capabilities of the hardware, better visuals, better sound, more accurate tracks, better physics, better tyre models, better FFB. But sure dude, lets pretend were ok with playing assetto corsa from 2014 on our state of the art racing hardware.

[@rynosraceroom66]

Im still rockin’ a DFGT w/ TLCM’s🤘🏼🏁

[@ServusLuis]

I have a pov which maybe some of you may also have. I’ve been into Simracing forever but I still find myself especially nowadays playing sth else like GTA 5 e.g. Why? Because over time I just got sick of all these people and experiences on ACC. You prepare for a race and drive perfectly for 30 minutes and are sweating like crazy just to be run off the road from some Troll who can’t drive. This is just insanely frustrating and destroys the entire experience. But you may say that driving in a league solves that. Imo it does but the problem is, that after a long day you’re just not going to sit down and do a little league race, that’s just not going to happen. In Simracing there is no real way atm to have a pleasant experience in especially open lobbies because you just end up being crashed into like the 20 times before. In other games you don’t put that much effort into one single goal that can be completely destroyed by some random guy. That’s what my problem with Simracing is.

[@cmorin522]

There needs to be more sim racing games for consoles like ps4/ps5 that’s what most people play on not everyone can afford expensive gaming computers that’s just my opinion

[@vsm1456]

7:06 "but people who play Gran Turismo watch Gran Turismo races" - Do they? GT World series 2022 finals get like 40-80k views, with Grand Final getting 178k. So the most important esport video in Gran Turismo got less views than an average video of SuperGT, the biggest GT youtuber.

[@Wilsonandcars]

Fanatec is sold out of everything , asetek hasn’t got wheel bases out yet, Moza R9 are hard to find , Logitech pro wheel is over priced , thrustmaster 818 DD is over priced and it’s a pain to get any of them in the States! These companies are doing a horrible job with product fulfillment and Distribution. It’s aggravating.

[@vsm1456]

Totally agree with your and Yamauchi's points. Things could really see some improvement from software, hardware, and community sides.

[@rarewhiteape]

Sim racing would be fine if Motorsport Games wasn’t trying to belatedly cash-in on the boost it got during lockdowns, and trying to wall off sections of the market while releasing poor quality product (or none at all while it’s delayed) and making everyone angry in the process.

[@hereward1971]

I've just stepped away as a mod from a sim racing group on discord/youtube for these very reasons! For any sport or hobby you must constantly promote and grow new members, without them it's over! The ridiculous costs of equipment and the communities peer pressure on new players that you need this to compete, without it you'll be slow and then flexing and comparing not specs but costs of the kit is killing sim racing not at the top but from the ground up. You don't see this in console racing as there's little options when it comes to wheels and pad users are catered for well by the developers. I think there will be a lot of people that will appreciate this opinion being put out there as it's one shared by many and one thats growing.

[@HBrooks]

some of these sim rigs are around 20k US. for that much you could get into local dirt-track racing in REAL CARS, or even less for the regional 'class cars' (mazdas, nissans, hondas). even the faster karts are sub 10K. your situation is unique, though - so live it to your liking. pros and cons for all.

[@brandonmclean58]

Im gonna get into it with the launch of psvr 2 and gran turismo, already bought my set up and have been practicing, its gonna be so awesome in VR I can't wait, I think you do lose a lot of the emersion playing on a flat screen which is why I have been waiting for this, its almost here guys! I did play it on og psvr and even that was pretty spectacular, but it was only part of the game unfortunently, this is gonna be the real deal!

[@escrivaodegalarran1098]

You know, there will be a day where racing will only take place in simulated immersive virtual realities. At that time, things will be so crazy that we will have racing competitions straight out of something like speed racer.

[@joseppc6802]

As a TED talk is spot on

[@Tira_Edits]

Im mainly speaking of ACC here since i haven't put enough time in other sims. Regarding simracers watching an individual instead of the competition stream is something i do and i don't think this will ever change anytime soon , its the fact that when you're watching an individual you have a POV perspective , when you watch a competition its a spectator cam , its easier to relate to the POV since you see all inputs and its easier to understand what is happening compared to a camera that is 50-100m away capturing more racers , not only that but you also learn easier from the POV perspective. This could be mitigated by maybe doing something like Counter Strike does , if the official stream bores you , you can just hop in game and load the live replay and you chose who to spectate and when and this can also count towards viewers. Maybe even a stream B focusing on more POV spectating to fill this void. Or anything else , i feel there is space to innovate in the spectating aspect in ways that please multiple individuals like myself or just elevate it so that the broadcast stream is more special than a streamer POV. Also there is a lack of promotion of these esports events , if i wasnt in a discord server or streamers chat i wouldnt even knew the event existed even if i wanted to watch it. Yet for League , Cs or others more successful esports out there there is some pop up , stream window , event etc. of the event that is soon to unfold IN the game menu , though all these events are officially sponsored by the developers and other third party events are not so or even at all promoted in game...

[@tarmacsoftee_sim_racing]

Just starting out. Not raced yet. Do feel a little intimidated by all the higher priced tech. I have a budget set up a Logitek G920. This video fills me with hope. Thanks.😊👍

[@0LD5CHOOL]

im part of the "i'd rather play than watch"...you know i've allways been fascinated about driving, the skill and know how taken is rly intriguing. but i just never thought that watching ppl race is exciting....exception for drift which looks amazing even for non racing ppl, but drifting is a nieche in a nieche. so yes, we are kind of lost on ourselfes

[@Krukikro]

racing sims just don't have those instant gratification mechanics. People get bored really fast and couldn't imagine, driving alone on an empty track for hours to gain a tenth. They rather pop some heads and have that everything blinking YOU ARE THE BEST thing.

[@garrettbellinghausen8389]

I think another good reason people saw a boom in population only to see it fade out is the new people themselves. They get into the car and they can’t get around the lap because they have no idea how to operate a race car. My dad got into an iracing practice lobby and couldn’t complete a lap due to lack of traction control, abs, a track map(his words),ect. Most new comers to racing see that they are so slow in comparison then they switch to something else

[@niekie1999]

What I always find weird, is that antagonisation of Gran Turismo or Forza. They might not be true sims, but I haven’t met a lot of sim racers that haven’t started there, and few that didn’t have GT4 as their one of their favorite games of all time

[@jamiebra92]

I love gt7 but I don't want to play anymore without a wheel but I don't want to pay big dollars for a wheel so i give up and go play shooters on the pc instead 😅.

[@exelium1]

We need more leagues with fixed setups IMO. I have the time in the evening to do one or two LFM races in ACC and some practice/warmup beforehand. But setting up the vehicle has been my problem for years. I would like to be a sim-driver not sim-oneperson-racingteam

[@NoInsurance]

I raced in fixed setup leagues and regretted it because it makes the gear - therefore money - gap more evident. I'm not as bad as I was there when I race with custom setups because I can suit it to my driving style and gear limitations.

[@hatray4540]

older people just dont have so much time to be competetive - its easier and more fun to go few times a year to track and drive real car than spent few ours every day

[@silvereagle6985]

It's a matter of priority, would you agree? I work 50 hours a week and find time to enjoy the hobby. However, I'm pretty terrible! I find it much more daunting and time-consuming to do this in real life.

[@Starmast3rmusic]

I don't think it's easier or cheaper to go to a track a few times a year. Price of admission to the track, tires-- not to mention other automotive costs like gas, repairs, insurance, registration, or even simply buying a car that's fun to drive on a track-- can get extremely pricey. Even pretty high end sim racing gear is much more obtainable and versatile compared to the real thing. Minus the smell of rubber or the social and physical experience of a real track day, you could technically have a track day whenever and wherever you wanted in sims like assetto corsa. The more money you spend on hardware, the more realistic it'll feel too-- all while still being miles cheaper than the real thing. This kinda reminds me of a flight simmer on KZbin that built a Cessna 152 replica cockpit in his living room because he simply didn't have enough time or money to fly in real life anymore. The price of lessons, licenses, and actual flight time is much more of a commitment, money pit, and time sink than building a higher-end simulator and flying whenever and wherever he wanted.