The Problem With Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse

[@anomalyinc3239]

FOLLOW UP VIDEO - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWqzf3l8nJuKnK8

[@ericvulgate]

Your content never shows up in my feed.

[@turtlesrprettycool3379]

What if Miguel is wrong, and it’s a different thing entirely? That’s what I was thinking during this movie while he was explaining it. What if Miguel is completely wrong, and it’s something else entirely?

[@kingj9664]

@@turtlesrprettycool3379 Feels like that's exactly what the movie is hencing at

[@turtlesrprettycool3379]

@@kingj9664 so then this video just contributes to the movie

[@kingj9664]

@@turtlesrprettycool3379 I guess but the way he puts it he makes it seem like that's a negative thing or something

[@kamikazehound3243]

The craziest part to me is how none of the spidermen besides Miguel werent actually able to keep up with Miles and they all were shown as being unskilled heroes. Seriously no way in hell should it be that easy for someone to shake all those spidermen and then Miles later saying he beat all of them when he ran from them☠️

[@kedrprao]

That sh!t legit took me out of the movie. They are making Miles as some god almighty spider man who can do anything. Miles escape from spider society HQ was just ridiculous

[@starwantrix5324]

You know why he succeeds and everyone else fails to catch him? Because he is Batman! I-I mean, because he is the chosen one in this movie. He is the protagonist, and I agree as well, they should have wrote this bit differently, they would easily catch him, and then later, while he is in prison, someone sympathetic to him, like I dunno, GWEN, breaks him out. That is believable, all the other plot armor that saved him is stupid

[@Yalovayahznepomnimena]

He is MC

[@me-myself-i787]

He had a small head-start. Plus, he knew where he was, whereas the other Spider-people had to spend time trying to find him. And they might not have been as invested in catching him as he was in getting away.

[@Tylermiller778]

His plot armor is made out of vibranium

[@madambutterfly1997]

If what Miguel said was verifiably true then Earth 1610 should’ve torn itself to shreds the second Miles got bitten

[@rayvonvelez3129]

Also Miguel own reality should've been destroyed with all the Spidermen from different realities he invited.

[@madambutterfly1997]

@@rayvonvelez3129 well he's got the bullshit McGuffin wristband that prevents them from glitching

[@rayvonvelez3129]

@@madambutterfly1997 I know. But it's still pretty funny he took such a big risk of his own reality inviting all these guys. Shows he didn't learn nothing. 😂

[@thegamingagent6822]

He's the villain, why would what he say be true? The whole conflict is about whether or not he's right.

[@boyishdude1234]

Which is why Miguel's position is wrong. When you think about Miguel's position based on everything that's happened, it doesn't make sense. You even start to see the cracks in his position show emotionally-speaking after Miles escapes in the Go Home Machine.

[@rick_horstmann]

I feel like the multiverse in general is one giant clusterfuck, cause there’s a lot of threads that need to be tied together in order for it to make sense. This “canon” stuff definitely fits the bill for why I can’t get into it.

[@dylansharp8471]

What?

[@madambutterfly1997]

You could argue that Uncle Ben’s death is the only actual Canon Event that matters in the context of what it means to be Spider-Man

[@coolman229]

I prefer how it was addressed in ITSV where the death of a family member was simply something they all had dealt with, not that it was a fated event. It's just something that thematically ties them together rather than something predestined by fate itself or else the multiverse will collapse.

[@TheCapedWanderer]

@@coolman229 not thematically and not exactly predestined, but Uncle Ben’s death is actually necessary in the conception of Spider-Man. It was his fault: his selfish inaction caused his uncle’s death; therefore he must help when he can *because* he can, i.e. defin. Spider-Man, n. He who has both power, responsibility. Without that event the character does unravel.

[@Сайтамен]

But it's not always uncle Ben.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

Miles didn't have an Uncle Ben moment in the comics, unless you count his Mom dying.

[@KamenRaidenDorysamy]

@@jeggsonvohees2201 You could see his uncle ben moment was with Aaron Davis.

[@rayvonvelez3129]

Also since Miguel just being in another reality broke that reality, how does he think inviting thousands of spidermen from different realities to his own reality is a good idea? Like why is he risking his own reality just to have a slumber party with a bunch of Spiderman. They really made Miguel a clown that is super hypocritical.

[@jw_gojifan19]

Which is a shame because he is one of my favorite Spider-Men

[@legofan370]

It kinda adds into the theory that this isn't Miguel but Morlun disguised as Miguel.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@legofan370 I actually thought spiderman 2099 got turned into an inheritor when I first saw the trailers, only to remember that he has fangs naturally. I don't think the movie would've let miguel have an internal monologue if he was fake though. And if he was lyinf he trigger everyones spider sense.

[@legofan370]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 But the thing is, that's what he injecting into his system. It's not Rapture but Miguel's DNA so nobody suspects him. As well as the fact that in the comics, I don't think he was ever a vampire. It's entirely possible that his vampirism is just a reference to the original comic story, but I feel like there's something more there.

[@Bxndz-tz4qe]

He’s find a way to contain people from being in alternate realities that’s the whole reason for the multiverse watch, slumber party ? it’s an hq they don’t stay there that’s implied when hobie said Gwen stayed at his house

[@DistantKingdom]

the sequel really has it's work cut out for it. gonna be really hard to pull things together in a satisfying way without being overly contrived. could see them playing it safe by outright ignoring some of the major holes you pointed out

[@xx_v_xx4373]

I never thought I'd see you commenting under an Anomaly Inc vid of all places

[@anomalyinc3239]

​@@xx_v_xx4373 well the man has taste obviously

[@mrconroy4672]

I’m calling it right now that the sequel to this will divide fans like they did with TLA. There’s too many issues that can be resolved in one movie. Let’s remind ourselves the creators never really cared about Stan Lees vision of Spider-Man.

[@xx_v_xx4373]

@@anomalyinc3239 oh for sure I dont doubt the taste. It's the differing communities that has me suprised, that's all

[@abdullaha2939]

​​​​​​@@mrconroy4672creators? Do you mean Phil lord and Chris Miller, the creators of this movie, or are you referring to stan lee and steve ditko, the creators of the spider- man himself? If it's the former, than how do the creators not care about stan lees vision for Spider-Man? Can you even explain what "Stan Lee's vision for Spider-Man" is? This comment is making my head spin.

[@mysticspace3369]

Well glad I wasn't going crazy when I felt like 2099 was being used as some hit piece on fans

[@MoodKapProductions]

This movie sums up all my problems with multiverse storylines. The concept of a multiverse constant is one of the dumbest things ever conceived when in concept the multiverse is infinite. It just becomes a mess EDIT: also since the PS4 game is included that means it also goes against the "canon" because Peter and Miles are both active and Miles' uncle is still alive

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

I only accept at best an alternate dark time line where the heroes failed or turned evil, but not a whole Multiverse though because they always get too big, too complicated and then the questions always come "Why don't all the heroes team and stop big threat if one of them needs helps".

[@ObservingProcrastinator]

I think a general constant can work fine, more so when said "constant" is more a general tendency/isn't something overly specific and isn't an absolute occurrence. I guess in that same line of thought, that "universal constant" I would say is not the same as the trope of a "time-locked event" since I feel those tend to apply more to one specific timeline versus all timelines. Then again, those two concepts do tend to be used interchangeably.

[@bcroyceart]

I don’t get the appeal of multiverse storylines to be honest. Too big. Too complicated. They break story consistency and they always are about the worlds shattering. We as people get more invested about the story of a few people we get to see develop in their conflicts vs seeing universes of people we’ve never seen get obliterated.

[@ObservingProcrastinator]

@blumace22 I think when it is a more "limited" multiverse, things are far more interesting. That said, even if well written, a lot of multiverse stories far too often go with the general blanket statements of it being an "infinite" multiverse or that it is a multiverse where "every" possibility that could happen can and did happen. In that same vein, and perhaps more importantly than it being an infinite or limited multiverse, is writers making it too easy, all things considered, to travel to other realities. Though, I guess it being hard to traverse the multiverse falls into the idea of a limited multiverse.

[@mrconroy4672]

Time to boycott beyond the spiderverse. This is only going to be the ultimate disaster.

[@aviewer774]

Another things to note is that miles isnt the original spiderman from his universe, his peter parker died so i just assumed he already went through the canon event, and why would miles need to fufill that canon if hes not canon? Also Peter B Parker's baby is actually an anomaly becuase she wouldn't have been born without the events of the original movie. Like what if Peter Parker had to kill his baby to save his universe, would he do it?

[@elpeluca7780]

And miles uncle also died so that's 2 "canon deaths". This movie is so stupid lmao

[@real_needynerd]

​@@elpeluca7780Peter wasn't meant to die in his universe, it's not a Canon event

[@bulliam]

these are great questions, but unfortunately people seem to forget the possibility that these questions are purposefully left unanswered and open-ended by the writers and are meant to be clarified in the next film as this is a two-part movie. of course miguel is wrong about the canon, but that doesn't mean the film has plot holes, it means that miguel himself is either wrong or withholding information for his own personal reasons

[@aviewer774]

@@bulliam Yah of course Miguel is wrong but that ends up making literally every spiderman retarded for listening to him. No one else in the whole multiverse could figure out he's wrong? Thats what makes this a film that can't be fixed, either Miguel is right which makes lots of plot holes, or everyone is extremely retarded.

[@Movietuff]

Well, Peter B has experienced his canon events already.

[@kurooaisu]

If Miguel doesn't want to break canon, maybe he shouldn't have created Spider Society in the first place? Why would he clump all Spidermen from every universe in one place?

[@kingj9664]

Maybe he knows a way to add all those spider people without breaking cannon.

[@BlueBlur2003]

Well he can't do all this shit alone and he needs all the help he can get but I imagine canon events are still destined to happen regardless if these Spider-Men aren't in their universes at the moment an event is supposed to take place.

[@madhattermaker622]

@@BlueBlur2003 Yeah but Miguel destroyed his universe just by living in it. Imagine that x1,000,000,000 or something and you got a recipe for disaster. Even if they think they have a good understanding on how the multiverse works it's still a risk to both him, the universe he is in and everybody living in it, and every spider-person within the society. The fact Miguel is ok poking the hornets nest seems a little off since he wasn't gonna take any chances letting Miles save his dad.

[@cleverballoon6535]

Yeah exactly it's like saying "oh the timeline is super fragile and we need to keep people from disrupting it.... So anyway I gave 100,000 spider men time machine bracelets 👍"

[@madhattermaker622]

@@cleverballoon6535 Yeah, that's another thing I Just noticed. Did it ever occour to Miguel that some spidermen might be evil? Then again they can't be evil because if they become evil then certain canon events won't play out and their universe will die which means we can't have interesting stories with Evil spidermen or something as cool as that.

[@Frozen_Death_Knight]

Just got back home from watching Across the Spider-verse and honestly, I agree with you. The most damning thing about the plot is what an uncritical eye all the characters take to "canon events" when nearly every continuity of Spider-Man media has vastly different events that are not shared across the entire franchise. The only thing that is even remotely close to a "canon event" is the death of uncle Ben, but even that is not a constant. Heck, in Spider-Man: The Animated Series Peter actually finds an alternate universe uncle Ben to convince Spider-Carnage to stop his madness of destroying all realities. Considering how much liberty the writers have taken in tying up all Spider-Man continuities into these films, this also means that the story can be fully critiqued based on what happens in those other stories. So in the case of TAS it in fact directly contradicts the very idea of "canon" by having versions of Peter Parker that are successful with living, breathing relatives. Finally, I find the whole "canon event" talk in the movie to be a very hamfisted way of criticising fans for not accepting certain aspects of Spider-Man such as Miles Morales and other types of disliked Spider-Man media. It is pretty blatant what the movie is talking about and it is such a poor commentary at that, especially when it does a disservice to the first movie that successfully made Miles Morales a likeable character. Ripping into fans despite the first movie being overall very liked by fans of Spider-Man is just in such poor taste and comes off as petty.

[@kingj9664]

I mean besides the overly angry spider man fans Laura's majority of people who saw this movie are Sparta and fans and didn't really have a problem with this plus this movie doesn't go completely outright attacking fans like people said it is it feels more like purities over reacting

[@indie_gamer7]

I think Miguel is bulshiting the Spider people because of it, we can see multiple flaws in his plan, i think his plan is flawed because he can't accept that he might be at fault for the universe he destroyed (after all, that universe might had a super collider aswell) This fits the narrative of how "oh this guy is not Spider-Man because he never had a uncle ben" because multiple universe didn't have an uncle ben, if the next movie we see Spider-ma'm (aunt may) then it will confirm that Miguel's logic is wrong as she never lost anything Resuming: Miguel's logic is flawed on porpuse to criticize how nitpicking fans of the series also make flawed points aswell, how not all Spider-Man stories need the same events to happen.

[@Frozen_Death_Knight]

​@@indie_gamer7 The issue with that line of thinking is that it makes basically every single variation of Spider-Man who followed Miguel a moron. Not a single one points out any flaw in the "canon events" theory, yet all of them are supposed to be geniuses. They just straight up accept the premise without actually debating it thoroughly, even when Miles brings up some fairly legitimate points. I've been a fan of Spider-Man since childhood from 90's and onward. Not a single show or movie of Spider-Man would have accepted "destiny" as an excuse not to save people. Using pre-destined events, "canon events", for a Spider-Man story and having practically all of them accept it as a fact is a massive betrayal of who Spider-Man is supposed to be. The story of his uncle's death hinges upon Peter Parker having the ability to have prevented it. He misused his powers and indirectly got Ben Parker killed because of his unwillingness to take responsibility for his gifts. If an event like uncle Ben's death is just destiny, then it robs Spider-Man of his own agency. That's why Miguel being wrong makes the story even worse, since that makes practically all of the other Spiders complicit in preventing events that did not need to happen. It's just a cop-out excuse and the writers wrote themselves into a corner with a very anti-Spider-Man story.

[@kingj9664]

@@Frozen_Death_Knight I don't know about all of that but it feels like a lot of over thinking and taking stuff too seriously. Cause doesn't really seem to make the story worse and doesn't really make all the Spartans morons because they did see what happened to that universe Miguel went to.

[@indie_gamer7]

@@Frozen_Death_Knight thing is, Miguel more or less has a source to privide, if any asks why should they actually follow him he could bring up the fact he saw a universe and billions of people die because of it, this is something i doubt Spider-Man would risk, having their entire universe wiped because they thought "that's no way that is true" We also see in the central there seems to be alot of people who don't trust what Miguel says, and there isn't Spider-leople who would prove his ligic is bullshit like Spider-ma'm So again, would you be willing to risk your entire universe being destroyed to test to see if that logic is actually true? Also we have to remember one thing, I don't think 616 or the movie Spider-man are there, with (repeting my last point) makes me believe he did not call any Spider-people who would prove that his logic is bullshit to his universe.

[@mozax8118]

If this movie was more focused on TIMELINES and TIME TRAVEL, then emphasis on "constant" events being integral to the plot would make (a TINY BIT) more sense.

[@williamturner6192]

Yep but the writers are anti-canon.

[@spectre1004]

Yeah I knew I wasn’t the only one that didn’t like the movie. It was one of the first times in awhile where I walked out of the theater and felt nothing. I didn’t love it or hate it. I felt nothing for it.

[@cunningflop]

i bet youre fun at parties

[@spectre1004]

@@cunningflop if your gonna insult me at least try to be original

[@cunningflop]

@@spectre1004 you’re *

[@spectre1004]

@@cunningflop grammar Nazi

[@AMARTmtz]

@@cunningflopthese people are tripping lol

[@madambutterfly1997]

I wouldn’t be surprised the proverbial spider spinning these webs that make up the “canon events” shows up in the next movie and says something like “Miguel, there’s no such thing as a canon event. The only reason that universe collapse was because you prioritized your own personal happiness over being Spider-Man”

[@TheCapedWanderer]

So sayeth the spider...

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Something like that probably, it will be interesting to see how they will wrap that plot point up.

[@VITAS874]

Because you know... by color.

[@kingj9664]

@@VITAS874 Pretty sure it's more than just the colors but whatever dude just keep hating on the movie

[@brasileiroloko5375]

i think this comment is going to age very well

[@madambutterfly1997]

Did anyone else notice how Miguel’s background was a bit of a middle finger to Doctor Strange 2?, that Miguel did what people were saying Wanda should have done in Doctor Strange 2, which was replace a version of herself in the multiverse that recently died.

[@rayvonvelez3129]

Yep😅

[@camerondalton1495]

I mean, it didn't work and resulted in a world dying so if anything it kinda showed why it wouldn't work. Plus, Mr. Fanstastic said there would be consequences for a person from the wrong dimension to stay too long.

[@kayleee4065]

To me it felt more like a middle finger to NWH. In that movie the directors completely retconned TH's spiderman just cause Raimi cannon crybaby fans wanted their version where Peter is unhappy and has no friends or family. Meanwhile, Accross the Spiderverse is saying with Miles "no, fuck you, it doesn't have to be that way!". Felt quite liberating. TH Peter Parker did not have to lose aunt May the way he did, the people he loves didn't need to forget him in that super contrived spell. Idk Accross The Spiderverse feels done right to me.

[@camerondalton1495]

@@kayleee4065 Honestly, I would say it's more accurate to say it was a middle finger to Modern Spider-Man comics in general. How Peter constantly has to suffer, not grow, and never be happy.

[@elpeluca7780]

​@@kayleee4065that's not raimi, that's just what the character has always been

[@nont18411]

12:51 To preserve the newly established “canon event”, these Spider-people forgot about the classic establishment that is “With great power, comes great responsibility.”

[@dylansharp8471]

What now?

[@rabbox4513]

damn The interview at the end. It's like they used every inch of willpower they had in them to not call people disliking miles "racists" You can just feel that this is what they think and want to say but they know it would be seen badly (justifiably so)

[@Shield-Scope]

11:49 That’s exactly what I’m saying! The idea of Canon Events is BS and it contradicts what a multiverse is about. The spider verse is clearly unlimited, in fact there was formerly a spiderman game called Spiderman Unlimited and the multiverse was brought to a universe and somehow all of those universes are intact. A multiverse with unlimited universes means that there are infinite possibilities like universes where Miles could still be bitten by the spider but Peter doesn’t die with various possibilities like him being able to stop the collider after saving Miles or even try teaching Miles how to be a spider-man awhile stopping the collider. There were unlimited possibilities of that situation where Peter lives or dies and maybe Miles could also die.

[@dumflame]

BECAUSE IT FUCKING INTENTIONAL omg, this is 2 part movie, it’s intentional

[@Shield-Scope]

@@dumflame Ok…

[@RogueFox2185]

I have no issue with the concept of canon events as while they have changed the details in different continuities the end result is the same as they’re important for Spider-Man to grow as a character, however the movie should have done with a few changes in order to make Miguel’s argument for keeping anomalies in check better: 1) Instead of a police captain it should be someone else that particular Spider-Man cares about, within most continuities regarding Miles Morales along with his uncle dying it’s then followed some time later by either his father who is killed in the line of duty saving innocent civilians or it’s his mother who died by the hands of his main nemesis. (As it was Venom: 1610 who ended up killing his mom before the Ultimate Universe was destroyed.) So with that in mind Miles should be able to save his dad but also it comes at a heavy price, Spider-Man should on principle try to save everyone as much as he can but there also must be some losses as well. 2) Since it was established that Peter Parker: 1610 was never supposed to have died in the first place, Miles own universe should be glitching randomly within subtle instances in the background so that we know something is wrong but the characters themselves are oblivious to it at first. Shutting off the collider in the first film should have been like putting a small bandaid on a gaping wound, as the universe itself hasn’t recovered from the loss of the original Spider-Man. So with the revelation that the unraveling of said universe is getting much worse as time goes on because of his absence, aside from the existence of the Spot being an issue there also has to be a significant canon event set in place for Miles to go through to stabilize the unraveling or Peter Parker: 1610 would need to be revived in order to get the story back on track so to speak. 3) They should’ve had at least two more instances of canon events being broken and shown to us so that we have a bit more to work with on understanding them, as there was nothing to indicate of why Miguel taking the place of his alternate self would cause the canon of that universe to be disrupted. Also regarding Peter Parker himself the Spider-Verse films often do him dirty with his portrayal, (with the exception of the original Blond Peter, but of course he had to be killed off early in the first film) not one version of Peter Parker besides Peter B. Parker (And believe me I have my own grievances with him) try to side with Miles Morales but also the fact that they were all stupid enough to follow him and leave the base undefended tells you all you need to know about what they think of him.

[@cunningflop]

because most of the spidermen are just going after miles but they dont know why... they just trust miguel, use your brain

[@RogueFox2185]

@@cunningflop Even if they trust Miguel they should all be smart enough to not leave the damn base undefended especially just for one rogue Spider-Variant, that’s just lazy writing given what we know of Spider-Man in general.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

On the third point, it's fair to note that most of the peter parkers in the second movie haven't interacted with miles. I'd also vouch for Spiderman Noir since he's teamed up in gwens team at the end and was never shown chasing miles. It's likely that he wasn't a member of the spider society of course but That's still worth something

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@RogueFox2185 did miguel clarify that spiderman wanted to escape the dimension though?

[@RogueFox2185]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 He specified that it was Miles who wanted to escape after the initial confusion yes, the movie really doesn’t give the “Elite Task Force” that is the Spider-Society a good showing that’s for sure.

[@kenkaneki3873]

The worst part about it is that the writers said they specifically went with the "canon" plot and used that specific word because they wanted to stick it to the fans and say that Miles is Spiderman and not Peter Parker.

[@anomalyinc3239]

yep

[@Dousch]

They kill off and replace Spider-Man, and repeat over and over how anyone can wear the mask, and they disguise the whole thing as a loving tribute to the character, sprinkle a couple of memes and easter eggs on top that people recognize, but it’s more like JJ Abrams take on Star Wars. Anything that’s not a copy paste of the original trilogy is bad, so ignoring that the prequels happened is to begin to make things ”right”. But that’s not Star Wars. Star Wars is George Lucas. The Lord of the Rings is Tolkien. Spider-Man is Peter Parker.

[@treenincove1726]

​@@anomalyinc3239 You're not taking into account that perhaps the cop in Mumbatan was going to die THAT day anyway! And that Miles and The Spot's existence changed the outcome of what was pre-planned. Meaning, if Miles never existed, the cop would have still died that day anyway from some other accident. You're not taking that into account.

[@mcharlton67]

Cry harder lmao. You have 50 plus years of Peter Parker in comics, TV Shows, Movies, and video games to fallback on Mr. Fragile.

[@Сайтамен]

They are both Spiderman in the movie, as well as hundreds more Peters, what's the problem?

[@HopeReviews]

wait this movie contridicts the 90's animated spider man show because in one episode it deals with the multiverse concept and we are shown a version of spider man that still has his uncle ben.

[@JDMaverick6714]

“If not for Uncle Ben, ‘MOST’ of us wouldn’t be here.Not literally all will suffer the same fate

[@HopeReviews]

The movie said the multiverse has canon events. So said events are supposed to happen in every universe. So spider man has to lose someone. Yet in the 90's animated spider man show in the multiverse arch we are shown a version of spider man that still has his uncle ben. This movie is contradicting it's self.

[@dylansharp8471]

@@HopeReviews False.

[@HopeReviews]

@@dylansharp8471 Why are you replying 9 months later, let it go

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

What Miguel doesn't know was that Peter Parker was already Spider-Man when Miles got bit.

[@theyoutubeacolyte969]

Thank you for pointing all of this out. While I enjoyed the movie, the problems borderline ruined it for me. Especially when the movie pulled a Loki. What’s the point of having a multiverse when the possibilities aren’t infinite, there’s no mystery to them now🤦‍♂️

[@brentmichael4770]

You are in an endless cycle, the dork in you keeps going out and watching these meh movies, and you're disappointed every time. Your not the target audience, however you are a useless idiot to them. They can count on you giving them money in order to keep their message machine rolling.. it's sad because it will never end until you and your small group end it!!😅

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

the possibilities are infinite, but each universe is still separate and has certain events that will happen. This is because time is fixed. But some universes are identical to each other until a certain point where they appear to split. But if you travel to one of those universes at the time where they were identical, it would only affect one of them since they aren't actually splitting, but have been seperate the whole time

[@sauceenjoyer6511]

The possibilities are infinite, miguel is in the wrong. Thats why hes the villain. The entire point is to prove why hes wrong i dont understand what people don’t get🤦‍♂️

[@kingj9664]

Well at least you said you enjoyed the movie

[@elpeluca7780]

​@@sauceenjoyer6511but why would a spiderman be the villain, especially since he seems to know a lot more than all the others? That's not who Spiderman is

[@amarithompson4196]

I still like the movie in general. I agree with the point about Uncle Ben tho. What made it powerful was that it didn’t have to happen and could’ve been avoided. I never saw it as some prophetic type thing that was always destined no matter what

[@coolman229]

If Uncle Ben's death was completely unavoidable due to fate then that means that even if Peter made the morally right decision and stopped it from happening then someone else would just come up and shoot Uncle Ben, robbing the death of its entire purpose. Peter making a selfish decision and using his powers for personal gain indirectly led to his uncle's death which is why it impacts him so significantly and why he starts taking responsibility so seriously.

[@TheCapedWanderer]

@@coolman229 and here you are saying more or less exactly what I just replied to you elsewhere. Cheers🥂

[@amarithompson4196]

@@coolman229 yea exactly. Making it some canon prophetic event defeats the whole purpose of Spideys whole motive

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

time is fixed in general, so things that happen happen, its just that we don't know what will happen

[@tarnw3301]

I just think those "events" are ties to other universes. All Spiderverses are connected by the shared theme of "Spiderman". As long as Spiderman exists, even as a mere idea, the universes in question are part of the same net (which is why Spiderman can canonically meet the comic creator Stan Lee). But let's say, someone time traveled to a Spiderman-comic verse and managed to alter the timeline to the point the comic is never written. Once canonical event "Spiderman comic exist" gets erased, the spiderlink is gone. My guess is that it wouldn't matter that much it if weren't for Kingpin machine weakening reality thread, something like the universes are sort of sick and will die if cut out of the Spidernet.

[@shinymk6562]

After watching the video and film twice, the only thing nagging me is how at the end of the film, a big moment of realization for Gwen and the audience is how her Dad chose to resign as police chief and nothing seemed to go wrong. Gwen even remarks during her final speech if I remember, that Miles showed her how anything is possible. No I still think its 100% possible that Miguel is simply misinformed (as opposed to being completely wrong) about the canon event thing. Even Miles himself tries to bring up how listening to an AI that determines "canon" is really messed up. So I still believe Miguel can simply be misinformed on the whole subject, as the purpose of the film itself is to challenge the whole "canon event" idea. They have to show examples that dhowcase why Miguel would believe such a thing, but its completely possible the real reason behind universal disruptions has not been revealed or is still being developed. Given how this is a Part 1 & 2 film, I think it is a little too trigger happy to conclude it makes absolutely no sense roght out of the gate. Wouldn't mind discussing bc thats always fun, and good or bad I'm always going to love this film so theres some bias there, but I do think it could all still work with a little more thought and patience. Even so, multiverse stuff is always tricky so I don't doubt that there is a mess here and there.

[@Pop-punkSakuga]

Finally someone with some sense

[@Pop-punkSakuga]

Finally someone with some sense

[@kingj9664]

I really hope that's the case for the movie

[@sauceenjoyer6511]

The only comment that understands that the whole point of the movie was to argue against the idea of canon events

[@DromusTH]

Or the next person who becomes captain dies :v

[@SpartanAstro]

Chances are in Beyond the Spider-Verse someone will figure out the Cannon isn't a thing. It's supposed to seem like a plot hole, so people will doubt Miguel O Hara, especially when Munbattan gets destroyed the second the Cannon is broken, but Miles universe is intact

[@thatoneroyalguard7060]

When I first heard about “canon” events I actually thought that was a joke made by fans of the movie

[@thatoneroyalguard7060]

Also hate how the fans of this movie are acting like it’s perfect and then go and say spider man 2 is overrated

[@creedecriswell634]

It was a cool concept until I thought about it.

[@thatoneroyalguard7060]

@@creedecriswell634 yeah it would be cool if it wasn’t called “canon”

[@creedecriswell634]

@@thatoneroyalguard7060 I agree and they are using this to attack nerds who care.

[@thatoneroyalguard7060]

⁠@@creedecriswell634 so tired of fans getting attacked

[@PieroMinayaRojas]

That's the risk of doing a time travel/multiverse/parallel universe story, it will never make sense and there will always be contrived stuff for the plot to happen

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

Miguel is so different physically and character wise that I honestly wonder if it's a different Miguel that took the place of the one we saw in ITS.

[@grey_apache]

A few additions I would include is that it’s established that dimensions without spidermen collapse, yet in the spider society city we see spidermen driving cars and working jobs meaning they are unable to protect their own dimensions. Additionally with the Mumbatten canon event, the spider people tried to stop the activation of Alchemax and the destruction of that part of the city which would have itself saved Inspector Sindh.

[@tbrown5836]

they never established that at all have you seen the first film? and also the canon event comes at a random, random moment where a police captain dies, it's not a specific moment it just happens

[@grey_apache]

@@tbrown5836 Your argument doesn't even make sense. The Police Captain event is a specific canon event in time.

[@creedecriswell634]

Here is also an idea why doesn’t Tobey and Andrew glitch in no way home? They broke their own canon in this movie. 😂😂

[@camerondalton1495]

It's possible that magic is a better way to allow multiverse travel than technology unless it Kang level technology.

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

its because those universes are similiar enough, im pretty sure in Dr Strange and no way home they said that each universe as a distinct energy signature, so the signature of their universes and the mcu are probably really similar. Also they didn't break the canon, since the events of no way home would have had the same effect even if the other villains didn't come in this universe. Everyone would have forgot peter was spiderman and aunt may probably would have died from another villain

[@kingj9664]

Or maybe those movies don't follow the same logic as the spider verse ones

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

@@kingj9664 they do, it’s the same multiverse

[@kingj9664]

@@minerpvpgaming2160 Just saw your comment on the explanation and I think I like yours better

[@benpeterson4673]

Here's the thing that fixes nearly every complaint you have with the movie. Miguel is wrong. Full stop. He's wrong. He thinks he knows that there are these things called canon events that have to happen or the universe gets wrecked, but there are literally only two data points that we have to draw on: Miguel's foster universe that he chose after he found an alternate family, and Mumbattan. The first we have no context for, and the second was just playing host to someone who's abilities involve breaking walls between dimensions. It's maybe implied that there have been more, but there's no other evidence for it. Miguel's only been at this for a year and a half, tops. He has a way that he thinks the world works, and it's one that he's convinced himself he has to follow to make the multiverse function as normal, but he's wrong. We actually see Gwen stop a canon event in her world too: when she convinces her father to stop being a captain, which means that a police captain "close to spider-man" would not die, because she probably wouldn't be that close to the next police captain. Your meta read is right: (11:50 in the video) "Any scenario can exist. Yes, there are some similarities, sure, but they aren't binding the fabric of the multiverse together." This is part of the point of the movie. The movie knows that. It tells you that before we see a single portal to another dimension, when Miles tells his councilor it's gross that he needs to have "a story" in order to get into college, and how she insists that their family are struggling immigrants when they are neither struggling nor immigrants. He also doesn't need "a story" to be Spider-Man. That is the message of the movie. (also, as a side note, we know that not all spider-people have had all their canon events happen yet, so that would be Miguel's explanation, which would be incorrect, for why Tom Holland's and Toby McGuire's Spider-Men haven't had their police captain moments yet.

[@skibot9974]

Thank you people have forgotten characters can be wrong

[@alphawilliams7923]

I feel like many people are not aware of Miguel character in Spider Man Edge of Time Video Game. When I saw the trailer I wasn't shocked because that game showed us how much he is more of a order comes first guy and not to mess with the timeline. He like the parent telling to not do stupid things. Heck even in the game I want to see MJ at first because it will mess with the timeline. But Peter questioned his worth of being a real Spiderman. So that was when he decided to save her.

[@vineezyproductions9638]

correct, he didn’t know the real meaning of being spider-man. also, this is unrelated but I love that the voice actors of both Spider-Man in that game where from spectacular Spider-Man and also the animated series from the late 90s.

[@ronniefazzio6979]

Also the writer of Edge of Time was Peter David, the creator of Spider-Man 2099.

[@StupidNoobDudeorSuperNoobDude]

Honestly, the idea of Canon Events is just bullshit. You made so much sense, I am completely convinced that you are correct. Also, Miguel and all the Spider-Men in the Spider-Society completely forgot about the biggest rule of being Spider-Man is not Stand By And Allow Others To Suffer Or Die Because You Do Absolutely Nothing. Miguel and the Spider-Society belief is bullshit. Also, it’s not Miles’ fault that he got bitten because he had no control of what happened and it’s not his fault that Peter died. It’s Wilson Fisk and Doc Ock fault for using the Collider and opening the multiverse.

[@J.E.R.O.M.E.]

35:40 "...anyone can wear the mask" Ok, fuck it, I'm on board. I want to see Spider-King Pin. Unstoppable!

[@Сайтамен]

It probably happened in the comics.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

So far I'm only aware or a norman osborn and dock ock spiderman. But give it sometime...

[@jadenpollen34]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55doc ock spiderman is superior spiderman

[@ghostfear2011]

The directors openly said they want to use Miquel to make fun of people who care about canon and will be more of a thing in the next movie.

[@anomalyinc3239]

indeed

[@roboguy75]

And this will destroy any goodwill Miles may have had. No longer a liked character but now someone who tore down and replaced another character and that one people will resent. Heck last time this happened with the whole Parallax storyline with Hal Jordan and replaced with a new guy people were furious.

[@roboguy75]

@Makuta S-V Wait sorry if I’m confused but rallying behind Miguel?

[@BluEx22329]

Tobey spidey isnt cannon with is organic webs. Tom holland spidey didnt have an unlce ben death. But i dont see ppl saying they are authentic. Hmmm

[@dachel683]

​​@Makuta S-V if Miguel was right earth1610 would've collapsed lol

[@grey_apache]

Finally someone speaking the truth. Good to see another person who can critically think about a movie

[@cyberpunklover161]

I mean it's your truth not the truth. I can't help by critical you mean someone hating a movie you already didn't like

[@roadmaster9777]

​@@cyberpunklover161so what is your truth the truth

[@cyberpunklover161]

@@roadmaster9777 I don't know what do you think is the truth

[@cyberpunklover161]

@@user-uq9oe7sc5m No it's not, Yes the opinions of the movie are mixed but for the most part it was overwhelmingly positive reviews even most people don't really care for this and we said it was just okay. If you didn't like it fine that's you buddy

[@cyberpunklover161]

@Satan-is-gay-spread-the-word not really

[@prajwalmhatre9495]

Perhaps Miguel is a version of Kang the Conqueror who deceived other Spider-Men into accepting this supposed "canon." His goal might be to preserve the timeline. Miguel's similarities to Kang, such as having an assistant and coming from the future, are notable. It's possible that in Part 2, the Spider-Men will recognize this deception and unite to confront him.

[@stellamariefanboy.6768]

Idk though, because in a post credit scene for the first movie, he was way happier and actually had humor.

[@TrueSpider-Man]

Honestly, the whole Spider-Verse in the first place makes Spider-Man feel like a meaningless disposable hero. Why? Because there’s trillions of him, there’s more of him than there’s power rangers lmao. It strips away all the cold-detailed elements that make Spider-Man what he always has been and a “universally grounded” character.

[@SomeHedge]

I completely agree, and Miles being the "Original Anomaly" doesn't make any sense because what is anyone going to do about it anymore? If he wasn't suppose to be a Spider -man you can't kill him because he was supposed to be Prowler. Like none of this makes any sense. It's mind boggling. And none beats Peter as Spider -man he's the goat. The 1st one was great they should have left it there... EDIT: There is literally a Spider - man clubhouse where all those Spiders aren't in there own universes leaving those earths without any heroes. So every universe should go down. They shouldn't be interacting wirh each other let alone live with each other.

[@Young_Wrath]

Dawg miguel is obviously wrong canon events aren’t what miguel thinks and miles and gwens new band are going to prove that canon events can be changed its not a problem with the movie its just miguel who thinks hes right and will get proven wrong in the 3rd film

[@tofu866]

Predictable and probably thats gonna happen

[@johanstenfelt1206]

My thoughts exactly.

[@dylansharp8471]

@@tofu866 What?

[@tofu866]

@@dylansharp8471 Am saying the guys comments is probably whats gonna happen

[@user-fm9ww2wk1i]

Maybe it's just me but 'Canon events' just cheapens every loss Spider-man has gone through in every iteration And I've never understood why there's only one Miles in this movie

[@thecreationpack]

Why would Miles father dying matter if he is an anomaly himself that just doesn’t make sense

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

not every event that is supposed to happen is a canon event. Canon events are events that tie the universe together, so if they don't happen the universe will be destroyed. Thats why miguel was able to live as an alternate version of himself for a period of time Also Miguel is probably wrong since he is the villain

[@thecreationpack]

@@minerpvpgaming2160 so then why is Miguel after miles, you didn’t really add anything to my point

[@thecreationpack]

@@minerpvpgaming2160 what I’m saying is if miles wasn’t supposed to be Spider-Man than the whole “canon Spider-Man events” are out the window because the rules wouldn’t apply to him since he’s an anomaly

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

@@thecreationpack yeah, Miguel is the villain so he is wrong, he thinks it will apply because he thinks it applies to anyone bitten by the spider even if they weren’t supposed to be

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

@deeznut4775 no, he made one mistake, and by trying to prevent it from happening again he has become too invested and afraid and he cant see another way to fix things

[@hypnoticskull6342]

The canon events really are taken the wrong way by Miguel. He sees them as evil that has to be done to make a Spider-Man, because they only can be made by wanting to fix mistakes. That's not at all what it is. Peter would have never used his powers for good if Uncle Ben never told him the famous quote, he might've even become a villain. Miguel thinks about the Uncle Ben, but never the lesson. A Spider-Man could just stop one day and nothing would change, because being Spider-Man isn't a duty, it's a choice

[@coolman229]

Nomz. Posting this video breaks a canon event. You're destabilizing our universe we're all going to d-

[@Skip2LOU]

Worst part is.. the spot literally told him the same thing at the beginning of his side of the movie. But only seems to care or hurt when Miguel said it? Wow 😂

[@danzstuff]

maybe he didn't believe the spot? i'm not sure why he didn't care before lol

[@Skip2LOU]

@@danzstuff i was just like “huh, now he cares 😂?” But u could be right. Probably barely paid attention to what the spot was saying until he started goin OP lol

[@CaptainCook83]

I love an Anomaly rant… I geuss you were the original Anomaly…

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

What I find funny is people priasing it whilst highlighting it's issues, issues that would typically make any other film bad. I also can't stand multiverses, it's just there to circumvent bad creative decisions and poor writing.

[@anomalyinc3239]

yeah 99% of reviewers pussed out on this one

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

@@anomalyinc3239 They certainly did.

[@kingj9664]

​@@TheAutistWhisperer Maybe because the issues in this movie aren't that big like how they are and other films. Even with the cannon event until that point the movie was Still pretty good plus it really does seem like the fact that there are so many inconsistencies with this it's kind of obvious that it makes a film Miguel is in the wrong with how cannon events work.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

@@anomalyinc3239 huh, you have pretty low standards towards other Reviewers that doesn’t agree with you, huh?

[@supoa9489]

​@@kingj9664The issues are massive, but voice acting, action scenes, comedy character relationships, beautiful animation plus the first being a good movie make people blind to it.

[@damianstarks3338]

A lot of people are going to hate your video but I appreciate your honesty just like in Spider Man no way home.

[@perfectlybalanced8995]

Yeah. I definitely loved this film but Anomaly did have some good points in addition further proving how the multiverse concept is so stupid. But that’s not gonna stop me from enjoying the movie overall

[@damianstarks3338]

@@perfectlybalanced8995same here this is a great Spider Verse sequel regardless of its massive flaws.

[@jmccray84]

I'm just glad it wasn't a stupid strong female lead that took over the spotlight. Jessica Andrew's got on my nerves

[@jacknite625]

i personaly hate the video because he thought that the cannon event thing was a plot hole even thought the movie has proven more than twise that it was infact wrong and is the main reason why miles tries to get home. from what i saw, he was just basicly saying when he is on mileses side and why miguel was wrong

[@kingj9664]

​@@perfectlybalanced8995 Same for me although I don't agree with this video period

[@JDMaverick6714]

Just wanna say, even though Miles’ universe wasn’t destroyed, it’s still in jeopardy because the canon still changed and the Spot is now a problem

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Miguel assumed that Miles was gonna pull a Loki and alter time, which would create the Multiverse.

[@bravepigster]

Favorite part was when Miles went “I’m tired of people telling me how MY story is supposed to go!” Like, bro is perfectly fine with destroying the multiverse just because he wants to be special. 💀

[@kingj9664]

No it's because he wants to save his dad

[@rodney7277]

that was not what he meant by that line at all lmao

[@togs6728]

Nigga thinks he's a superhero because he pressed a button

[@williamturner6192]

@@kingj9664 no, it's cause the writers want us to be that way cause that's how they themselves are.

[@kingj9664]

@@williamturner6192 Pretty sure that's not the point Miles not always gonna try and save his day but also figure out how not to start these cannon events

[@jlong908]

How did the Earth 42 Spider even get to Earth 1610?? In order to transport an alternate unvierse version of something you need to put it's DNA into the collider. The only way it could have been transported is jf Kingpin and his team had a radioactive spider of their own, which I heavily doubt they did.

[@cyberpunklover161]

Maybe not the kingpin but I'm sure alchemics being a science lab has experimented Has experimented on spiders

[@jefferyandbob3137]

I mean couldn't they just make their own new one? They have both spiders and radioactive materials so it doesn't feel that far fetched

[@TheMaskedWarrior-qq4kr]

The Spider could have been the one that bit 1610 Peter Parker

[@hermos3602]

This whole "canon event" is reminds me of a scene in Mortal Kombat 11. Raiden states that in every timeline him and Liu Kang fight and he always kills Liu Kang in every one of them. That's also total bs because that never happened in the original timeline or in MK vs DCU (It was a separate continuity or timeline). It only ever happened in the rebooted timeline and the other made up timelines that were shown in Mortal Kombat 11.

[@joshuamaxam5086]

It's got continuity problems, it's got plot holes, Miles has plot armor, it's got forced derived tension and a forced "representation" message. But the art style and music design are good and the screen play is sick. No one see's Miles Morales's story and thinks "he's just like me" "he just a regular guy" after seeing this movie, they think "He's at the center of whole spider verse it's all revolving around him" "I guess he's no regular guy".

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

All the visuals and lights always distract folks from the deeper issues. Like the woman with the big tits and the pretty face who's secretly a bitch in sheep's clothing. They'll always fall for it. It's depressing.

[@dylansharp8471]

"It's got continuity problems, it's got plot holes, Miles has plot armor, it's got forced derived tension and a forced "representation" message" What?

[@loogiman8491]

Because this series connects with the MCU, wouldn't that mean that Loki and What If aren't possible? They also "break canon", and by the logic of ATSV, the TVA wouldn't need to reset the timeline, the timeline would've just pruned itself.

[@dylansharp8471]

It's complicated.

[@resourcefulhedgehog936]

Surely Gwen coming back to see her dad was breaking a "canon event" because he wouldn't have quit being captain if she hadn't come back

[@kingj9664]

I'm pretty sure it was And whenever beyond comes out I'm sure they'll probably explain how to bring a can event without destroying the universe

[@skibot9974]

That’s the point: that’s the film telling you Miguel’s hypothesis was incorrect. Why doesn’t anybody understand that characters within the story can be ill-informed?

[@johanstenfelt1206]

@@skibot9974 my thoughts exactly.

[@skibot9974]

@AtomicAsashi there are so many other things that could’ve destroyed his universe: the TVA, Galactus, Spot (the fact Gwen was “knocked into last week” in the first film shows sometimes dimensional travel and overlap with time travel)

[@BlueBlur2003]

I understand your points but I feel like a lot of this could easily be explained in the next movie. Miguel is clearly suffering through trauma and he's not thinking straight. That or they show he was lying to Miles this whole time and he was doing all this for his own selfish reasons. It's inconsistent sure but it's the good type of inconsistency that leaves me wanting more. So I'm hoping they acknowledge these things in Beyond the Spider-Verse.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

My thoughts exactly.

[@cabellero1120]

I wanted to like this film but, Ultimately, I was disappointed. Too many questions Incoherent story Too much Gwen, Miguel Not enough Spot Too many Spider Man variants The movie doesn't make sense!!

[@Yalovayahznepomnimena]

Miguel is main antagonist in part 1

[@regiman222]

On the subject of "canon events" I'm fine with it in concept, as it's a mix of fixed points in time and a "Constants&Variables" between universes. But they should have just sent Miles back, let him try, let him fail to save his dad if that's really meant to happen, after all Indian Spidermans anomaly only happened because of multiversal intervention, on his own things would have played out as canon dictates.

[@zachpulido5972]

FINALLY, someone who’s not just uncritically praising this movie, I was shocked when no one was calling out how dumb it was.

[@Yalovayahznepomnimena]

"Spider verse is overrated" videos

[@bilbobaggins9451]

I fell asleep during this snoozefest.

[@AstralKEK]

This guy didn’t pay attention to the movie and nether did you

[@dumflame]

Because it’s intentional

[@thomas5]

I really didn't like ATSV which I'm sad about because I loved Into The Spiderverse. The mix between animation with live action elements was very jarring and I did not like it at all. I thought the hole was a terrible villain that wasn't funny and was really cringe. And the political flags and pins threw me off because it felt so forced. Plus the movies fan base on TikTok and Twitter is actually insufferable and makes me dislike it even more. Overall probably like a 3/10

[@ajjones6682]

Dude majority of the things you said doesn't even make the movie inherently bad. The cross between live action and animation happens like twice. The spot is a lame villain, and always was, but I feel like the directors made that the point of him in the movie as well, hence why he has a goal of becoming more powerful. And the political flags and pins you're talking about are rarely prevalent in the movie lol. I don't see how those alone make the entire movie a 3/10

[@jadineanderson8495]

I was waiting on this🗿 finally a review thats not mindlessly giving this movie praise.

[@dylansharp8471]

What?

[@windy6587]

I think youre pointing out the plot instead of pointing miguels logic because hes obviously wrong or lying and the first movie explains that the colliders are the real reason why the world collapses and not canon events but i hope that is the explanation in case of the third movie

[@johanstenfelt1206]

My thoughts.

[@xdarkxskullzx]

This dude is missing the entire point, just let him and everyone in the comments vent. They can’t be helped.

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

​@officialzw2265 Yes cause that's the ONLY criticism right?

[@xdarkxskullzx]

@@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475 Absolutely not, but the criticisms that actually exist in this movie don’t justify such a harsh rating and perceptive on an otherwise great film.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Sequel

[@jw_gojifan19]

Like NWH, I skipped this one and saw Transformers instead. Now that was a fun movie! The biggest turn-off for me is when they made Miguel O’Hara, one of my personal favorite Spider-Men, act like the villain. From the second he appeared in the trailer attacking Miles for seemingly no reason, I knew something was up. SpiderVerse at least felt unique but now, it’s a heavy multiverse film. Another turn-off.

[@snowdude8583]

the first itsv was a multiverse movie, it was just with not that much characters

[@jw_gojifan19]

That’s why it worked. It wasn’t overbloated. Here, it’s like nothing makes each Spider-Man universe interesting if they go through the exact same thing. That’s why the concept of a multiverse is there, because different events can happen.

[@snowdude8583]

@@jw_gojifan19 I mean there was always gonna be more spiderpeople in the sequel

[@Young_Wrath]

Spiderverse was a multiverse movie😂

[@jw_gojifan19]

@@Young_Wrath One that did not need the crumbling MCU to be good. I am so sick of seeing MCU stuff

[@roskamorals7188]

Not a plot thing, but one thing I wondered was, when did gwen and miles take the photo she has? And where were the other spider peeps in the photo, weren't they there too?

[@anomalyinc3239]

Pizza Time

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Tobey Maguire: 🍕⏲️

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

_"If I flip these cakes my parents will flip out!"_

[@coolman229]

"Nomz give me video" "You'll get your video when you fix this DAMN DOOR"

[@treenincove1726]

You're not taking into account that perhaps the cop in Mumbatan was going to die THAT day anyway! And that Miles and The Spot's existence changed the outcome of what was pre-planned. Meaning, if Miles never existed, the cop would have still died that day anyway from some other accident. You're not taking that into account.

[@asdergold1]

This is basically the Spiderman equivalent of Loki. There's no defending this movie lmao

[@bcroyceart]

Does anyone really expect us to believe that the Spider Rex in the movie had a police captain in his world that had to die in order for it to stay in tact? Wtf? This movie really just sets the standard for turn brain off and consume product. Point at things from other things and say “I remember that! This is awesome!”

[@BluEx22329]

But you are not questioning a trex having super powers to begin with 😂

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@BluEx22329 superpowered dinosaurs are actually relatively common in the marvel universe! Devil dinosaur, Stegron, Reptil, Sauron (if you count pterrosaurs, which comic writers seem to like doing even though it's inaccurate) etc

[@bcroyceart]

@@BluEx22329 there was a spiderman t Rex in the movie chasing after miles. So if miles is as smart as they portray him to be then that whole “captain close to spiderman” canon rule is bs because I’m sure there were no police captains in the time of the dinosaurs. So then he would figure out that Miguel is lying, which is what a lot of people are saying in order to cover the movie’s plot hole.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@bcroyceart if the spider Rex is a superhero, that probably means he fights crime. If he fights crime than the dinosaur world has a society that imposes laws, and like has dinosaur law keepers to impose it.

[@bcroyceart]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 that is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

[@jefferyandbob3137]

I mean canon events likely aren't supposed to be a thing that makes sense, like I am absolutely sure Miguel is either lying or (hopefully) doesn't fully understand how they work but doesn't want all his suffering to be random and "meaningless" in some objective universal sense, or something along those lines. obviously you're allowed to dislike the film the same way I'm allowed to like it, but I don't think the canon events being weird logically is an accident. Especially since these Spiderverse movies are really good at tying everything together

[@Monkchonk666]

Plot hole - the movie

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Absolutely

[@dumflame]

Because it’s intentional

[@Loophole23742]

As I've always said, this movie works great as a popcorn flick, just like the DC flash movie and MCU’s No way Home. You turn your brain off, suspend disbelief a little bit more than you would for other movies and don't think too much about it, but what you must never ever do is get swept away in emotion and spout stupid shit like saying the movie is a masterpiece or the best superhero movie, that just opens you up to criticism and ridicule. The concept of cannon events not being allowed to be altered in across the spider verse is ridiculous and only really works for non comic book fans and works on people that dont know shit about the lore, characters and the universe the characters come from. The movie works best for casual moviegoers that aren't too clued up on comic mythology and Spiderman in particular. In the comics, these movies are based on, characters change events all the time. characters make deals with powerful beings like spiderman having Mephisto re-write history so aunt May doesnt die in the one more day story arc. After the civil war saga Spiderman’s identity was known by all, putting his family at risk. He had things rewritten protecting his secret identity and bringing back his Aunt at the cost of his marriage and his unborn daughter which he would have had if his marriage to MJ was not undone. I just use that as an example because it’s actually spiderman related and don't get me started on how Miles Morales was brought over to the main earth 616 comic canon in the first place🤦‍♂️ The stupidest shit ever. Dude gave molecule man a stale cheese burger he had tucked away in his suit for weeks and Molecule man was so grateful for the burger that should have been considered an insult, that he moved Miles and his family and friends magically to the canon main Universe. As canon events go, you don't get more canon disrupting than uprooting a family from one universe and moving them to another. Where's Spiderman in 1610 now that Miles is in 616? Miles already replaced the Peter from the 1610 comic’s line. The whole concept of canon events being the main theme of these movies, well that's a thread the writers shouldn't have pulled at, it only exposes plot holes. Looking at the movie's plot holes, they become even more apparent when you know the characters beforehand. Forget for a second the 1 year old spiderman miles morales is able to outsmart and outmanoeuvre the entire society of spidermen/women, that's nearly every other spiderman/woman from every other comic book universe. Miguel O'hara wanted to subdue Miles, when he caught him, he puts his face close up to Miles and says shit out of spite, telling him he is the anomaly, well why didn't he just bite him? Problem solved. last I checked O’hara is the only spiderman with the ability to paralyse those he bites because of the different type of spider that bit him. The wolf spider if I'm not mistaken. They already showed that it is a thing he does in the movie when he was going to bite the vulture at the beginning. Well Miles is a lot tougher to subdue than the version of the vulture he was fighting.🤷‍♂️ But yeah! You look at those factors to hard and it spoils the movie but if you don't look at them at all you get swept away like all tick tok brain, short attention deficit people running around calling the movie the greatest thing since sliced bread and a fucking master piece just because it has a manipulative music score,pretty colours, explosions and special effects.

[@R1ck_Ryder]

this movies plot feels like it was written by an 8 year old on scratch paper and its the biggest movie of the year its really depressing

[@ajjones6682]

not really. There are many opportunities to fix the "problems" that this movie has in the next one. That's not saying that this movie can only be fixed by its sequel, since this movie is good on its own, but the sequel can easily give more explanation and more characterization to characters, especially Miguel. Everyone is theorizing that he is infact wrong about the canon and the reason hes angry is because he's projecting his guilt onto Miles

[@R1ck_Ryder]

That’s head canon bullshit. These writers literally made this plot just so they can attack fans for not liking shitty ass miles morales and using one of the only beloved alternate Spider-Man to do it

[@ajjones6682]

@@R1ck_Ryder Its not lmao. Its deadass what nearly every sequel does, especially if the previous movie ends on a cliff hanger. The next movie is gonna explain better explain the events of this movie and more, that's just common sense. What I said about Miguel being wrong is just theories, not being taken as actual fact. Hell you can even get hints of that from watching the movie lmao. This isn't even an attack on fans, the only people who would see this as an attack are those who think Miles is just a race swapped Peter Parker. I can agree that Miles was originally written to be a black Peter Parker in the original comics, but that's not how he's written in these movies. He's not THE spider-man thats replacing Peter, hes a kid following his footsteps. Tell me what you think is wrong with this movie besides "Miles isn't the real spider-man"

[@R1ck_Ryder]

@@ajjones6682 see the 39 minute video we’re watching and I don’t have the time to write an essay on why these movies are ass. Sheep are gonna sheep and I’ll just skip them from now on. Enjoy your slop kid

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

​@@ajjones6682There's literally an interview saying they did that to spite the critical folk.

[@idrinkcofe]

how do all the of spidermans have time to actually save their neighborhoods when theyre part of a multiversal society bent on making sure 9/11 happens (canon event).

[@cmasterson]

Miguel is pissed that a random spider bite the wrong person. Like Miles has control over a spider biting him. Lol 😆

[@coolman229]

I would think he'd take more issue with Kingpin for making the collider in the first place which is what actually caused this

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

He's pissed miles is running amok despite the consequences. Like a kid trying to run around in traffic, there parents will probably yell at them afterwards. Like even before telling spiderman about the canon events he still basically hitchhiked across the multiverse and ignored the fact he wasn't invited

[@TrueSpider-Man]

ITSV should’ve been the only spider-verse movie, no sequel no anything.

[@megaham1552]

I think a sequel would have worked if they focused more on the villain and left out the multiverse nonsense

[@rayvonvelez3129]

Yeah this movie triggers me a lot, I'm like why would all these peter parker's agree with this random future spiderman? His comparison to what miles wants to do and what he did, makes no sense. Miles ain't going to another version of himselfs reality and steal their family. Miguel was very selfish at what he did, it was his fault what happened to that reality. But he wants to blame miles for everything. The thing that really pissed me off, is having spectacular Spider-Man my favorite version of Spidey, working with this clown. Spectacular Spider-Man would never agree with what Miguel wants to happen to miles, never. This version of Spiderman 2099 is very badly written. Atleast in video games version of 2099 he is actually a good guy so much that he wants to save the original Spiderman from dieing in Spiderman edge of time, this movie 2099 obviously wouldn't try to save peter but the game one would he does. That's the whole plot of the game, saving Spiderman from death. But movie 2099 is going around telling everyone that someone important to them will die and they should let them die cuz it is canon. No he shouldn't even be telling them that cuz whenever a character dies that is important to Spiderman they're never supposed to know this person is dieing wether it be uncle Ben or a police captain they're not supposed to know, that's why these Spidermen can never save them. But Miguel is over here spoiling it for them and making miles go against him. Here's the truth if Peter parker Spiderman knew uncle Ben was going to die he 100% would try to save him no matter what.

[@dc7981]

Miguel didn’t want miles to make the same mistakes he did. And yeah actualyl miguel is a prick In the comics and willing to kill so I thought it was pretty in character

[@diddly-squat9332]

To spite people who don't like Miles Morales, they destroyed their own series and potential for sequels, spit in the face of those who liked their series and made even more sure that, those who don't like Miles, will ever do.

[@MASJYT]

The weird thing is that Into the Spiderverse was well received. Why spite your fans when you're at the top? They achieved the goal of making Miles a likeable character in the first movie just to shit all over it with their pettiness in the sequel. It's like giving your seat in the subway only to get spit on the face. It's so hateful, so unnecessary.

[@dylansharp8471]

They didn't do that. People still love Miles.

[@dylansharp8471]

@@MASJYT You are full of bullshit.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

Are we sure that it's the Canon that's breaking the multiverse and not the Incursions that happen when someone stays in a different universe for too long? That's what they established in the MCU, which is canon to ATS.

[@camerondalton1495]

That would be cool.

[@devshah480]

I think that’s the point at the end of beyond of the spider verse we will see why the canon events don’t make sense

[@cyberpunklover161]

Yeah that's what I think too

[@tylersparrow6526]

I think Miguel being wrong about canon events are on purpose lowkey we might be seeing incursions

[@Backfisch5927]

So your main problem is that a character believes something that isn't true

[@uberboss2276]

I think that Miguel really has his "canon events" very wrong and I pray that this gets pointed out in Beyond the Spider-Verse. It removes all emotion from the loss of all the "Uncle Ben's" because its simply boiled down to "Oh well its a canon event so it was gonna happen anyway", and makes his loss have almost zero impact. Also, if Miles is not supposed to be Spider-Man because of him being the original anomaly and whatever as said by Miguel, then his canon events should either never happen because he "isnt supposed to be Spider-Man", or they should happen and he should be recognized as Spider-Man, since Miguel says that those canon events only happen to Spider-Man. This obviously makes no sense

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

Miles is literally part of the line of Spider-People that are shown in the holograms with their respective version of Uncle Ben, with another outlier being Gwen, whose loss was that of Peter instead.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

I think it will be pointed out in Part 2.

[@matane2465]

I hope the next movie is just about Miles being super gay because we need more gay characters, and Canon isn't important. Miguel is wrong.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

@@matane2465 …what?

[@kyleb7974]

@@Wendeta-hq2cpPretty sure Miguel is just full of shit. He labelled Miguel the original anomaly, and said he was part of canon. Then you have to factor in Spot

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

The worst thing is if Miguel is right and there are canons. First of all, how can they be in the multiverse? Secondly, it significantly devalues the tragedy of the Spider, which was individual for each spider, and now it turns out that it's not Peter's fault that the criminal killed Uncle Ben, but the universe decided so

[@MeltonCrest]

Miles Morales is Miles Morales.

[@Сайтамен]

And he also is Spider-Man.

[@claytonveno3710]

@@Сайтамен Nah he's just Miles Morales, Peter Parker IS Spider-Man

[@pizzatime4204]

He's spider man also

[@pizzatime4204]

​@@claytonveno3710going by that logic every alternate version of spider man isn't spider man

[@Сайтамен]

@@claytonveno3710 They have spider powers. They both are.

[@terrorbilly3367]

the problem with this movie is character assassination of peter parkers(like spectacular spiderman who told toombstone he's not gonna look away telling miles to look away) just to boost miles

[@NWingComics]

Thank you for this video!! I’m so glad to finally see one actually criticizing this movie for its flaws and not just blindly praising it. I don’t hate Miles; he’s just a character that I’ve never connected with nor has he ever interested me. Honestly, the only reason I saw this movie is because of Miguel O’Hara. Spider-Man 2099 is my personal favorite, and they totally disrespected him. Spider-Man: Edge of Time did such a better job, but I guess that what happens when the creator, Peter David, is directly involved. Also, it was also a huge turn off that they pushed the whole Miles is the best Spider-Man thing. I didn’t even know that they had that agenda, but I definitely felt it. You don’t put that in the actual movie. That undermines everything. You’re letting haters affect your art, which by the way has a negative effect on the people who already don’t like/care for Miles. And it didn’t helps that they made him seem like a spoiled brat in the process.

[@cyberpunklover161]

Not sure they're actually trying to put a gender that miles is the best spider person Seeing as Gwynn also had some time to shine and they highlighted a bunch of other spider people. Plus miles didn't come across as a spoiled Brad if anything he just comes across as a kid who cares way more about his family

[@rajsaxena7958]

35:55 Blackpanther is also a character owned by the entire world, so when are we having a hispanic or a white panther ?

[@jadenpollen34]

black panther has nothing to to do spiderman

[@cmasterson]

So the Police Captain was supposed to die who wasnt related to that Spiderman. But his uncle dying was not the person that is like his "Ben" dying. Miguel changed his story and prevents everyone else from doing anything like he has all the answers.

[@iamdylangill3896]

One of the most important things to remember about Miguel is that he’s a villain and what most likely occurred in the universe with his family is an incursion due to Miguel being there for too long.

[@R1ck_Ryder]

Affirmative Action: The Movie

[@Caine7ify]

Miguel blaming Miles as if Miles PLANNED for it... how CONVOLUTED IS THAT?!

[@joseantoniovargas6548]

Promoting Miles'dad our of nowhere? Dude what are you smoking thinking that's something unbelievable when facturing in his father personality?? If you wanna play it rhis way, than Peter getting bitten by the spider in the first place could be seen as a convenience for the plot since he was at the right place at the right time for the spider to be out just when Peter was in there. But yet you think Miles'father being promoted captain is absurd? Also the plot of the canon is supposed to be flawed! Jeez its not like Miguel is the ANTAGONIST! Maybe, maybe Miguel is just wrong about the thing he is saying too??

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

You weren't paying attention to the movie and your not really thinking about it enough. First, not every event that is supposed to happen is a canon event. Canon events are events that tie the universe together, so if they don't happen the universe will be destroyed. Thats why miguel was able to live as an alternate version of himself for a period of time 1. Miguel is probably wrong, he is the villain. 2. Singh would have died anyways, because it was a canon event and he was meant to die. 3. It could just be an alternate version of Donald Glover's prowler, they never said its the exact one from the mcu 4. They didn't say he needs to be crushed, Peter was the kid in amazing spiderman 1 that Captain stacy saved 5. They were setting up Miles's character and relationships, the plot isn't the only thing in a story 6. Your saying that If something didn't happen, then something else wouldn't happen. Thats not a complaint, thats just stating how the plot of a movie works. 7. Miguel is wrong, he hasn't been to every universe with spiderman, the next movie is beyond the spiderverse, so they will probably visit other universes that Miguel couldn't access where the police captain doesn't die 8. Captain Stacy probably died after spiderman 3 in a similar manner, the footage was just easter eggs. Tom Holland's captain stacy will probably die at some point as well. 9. There are more than one canon events in every universes, and its not the same event for every universe even if it might be similar (like the police captain) 10. Time is fixed, and they showed that in loki and avengers endgame, there are multiple universes but each universe is set. Any scenario can exist, but Miguel hasn't been to all of the infinite universes. 11. Miguel obviously brainwashed or lied to the other spidermen and they accepted it because it made them feel better about their traumatic experiences. He probably kicked out and got rid of all the ones that disagreed with him. 12. Peter B Parker was convinced by Miguel because Miguel told him it was for the greater good and that if uncle ben lived billions more would have died. He doesn't realize that Miguel might be wrong until the end of the movie. 13. Miles's spider gave him more powers which is why he is stronger and his powers are all probably stronger. The other spidermen weren't trying their hardest to catch him except Miguel. They also didn't expect him to endanger the entire multiverse which is why he escaped when they were surrounding him. 14. Miguel was able to access other universes but he would glitch without the watch, the watch prevents him from glitching and makes the technology to travel between universes smaller. His universe is in the future so time probably works differently, so for him it was probably a lot longer than 16 months even though it was only 16 months in the other universes. He didn't realize it was destabilizing until after that post credit scene. (this is the only good point you had though) 15. Its not people who cross into the wrong universe who are anomalies, its people that change the events that would have happened and the people that are changed. 16. Miguel either is placing guilt on Miles because he is wrong, or ITSV happened before he took over the alternate version of himself. 17. No way home was after ITSV, Miguel references it like it just happened in ATSV. Also his universe was almost destroyed but since everyone forgot the peter was spiderman the canon events that were going to be prevented were prevented from being prevented which stabilized the universe. 18.Loki took place outside of time so the events are happening simultaneously when it comes to people inside of time. Also he didn't destabilize the multiverse, he just allowed it to exist. 19. The mcu isn't completely dead yet, and even if it is, these were just easter eggs, its not going to actually affect this movie. This isn't an actual complaint of the movie. 20. After he wiped out a universe, he started making sure that it doesn't happen to any other universe. 21. the other supercolliders were prevented by their spidermen, just like kingpin's was supposed to be in ITSV. There are other universes where it happened but they are probably beyond Miguel's reach and will probably be explored in beyond the spdierverse. 22. That canon event would have happened anyways. 23. Not all events are canon events Canon events are events that tie the universe together, so if they don't happen the universe will be destroyed. Stopping the supercollider was just an event that was supposed to happen, not a canon event. Thats why also why miguel was able to live as an alternate version of himself for a period of time but when he accidently and eventually disrupted a canon event his universe was destroyed. 24. Everything with miles wasn't a canon event, only certain things are canon events. All the canon events that had to do with Miles's peter probably already happened so none of them were broken. Miguel thinks his dad has to die but because miles is an anomaly his dad's death probably isn't a canon event. 25. Spiderman existing wasn't a canon event in earth 42, however, the police captain dying was which is why earth 42 captain morales still died even though miles didnt actually become spiderman in that universe. 26. The themes of the movie is about free will and what has to happen and restrictions, and acceptance. That is reflected in real life by people who tried to restrict miles and didn't accept him. It still works in the story even if you have no knowledge about the real life events which is why it being meta isn't a problem.

[@P3ashooter025]

Finally a good argument

[@elpeluca7780]

So it goes against everything Spiderman is for the sake of making one the good guy and the other the bad guy, sacrificing character integrity to a story ,(and a dumb one at that). Shitass movie

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

26 is bad argument

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

@@yalovoyhznepomny I don’t remember what I was responding to

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

@@minerpvpgaming2160 26) Miles was not tried to subdue in any way. He was told that his father must die for the good of the universe. This does not fit the census of human history in any way. Miles was not controlled or manipulated by anyone- this phrase does not suit him very well

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

I will give the sequel props if they have Miles save his Dad, but his Mom dies of something completley unrelated. She was red flagged almoat as hard as the dad.

[@OPDS72]

9:52 To be fair, Tom Holland is still going through things early in his journey (he just lost May, his Uncle Ben canon event). Miguel also made reference to the events in No Way Home when he said "Doctor Strange and the little nerd back on Earth-19999," meaning that it pretty much just happened. If you wanna go FURTHER, when The Spot showed up in the Venom universe, he ran into the store owner that, based on her reaction, probably just experienced the aftermath of "Let There Be Carnage," meaning it probably happened recently, relating to the MCU (which if you watched the ending credits of both movies + Morbius, you'd know those universes are linked). Last point is that it'd have to be a police captain close to Spider-Man, and in most cases, that captain is Captain Stacey, Gwen's father. Tom Holland's Spider-Man hasn't met Gwen yet, thus meaning he wouldn't have any close connection to Captain Stacey, meaning that canon event wouldn't have happened in the MCU yet, thus no footage.

[@philleotardo7016]

Thanks for validating my feelings about this movie

[@MidnightDubstep]

Miguel O'hara owes me money

[@didiman4252]

I am so glad to see I am not the only person who walk out of the movie thinking some seriously dumb shit was put in front of my face. Also with all the Hobbie Brown dickridders out there did anyone else find him annoying as well as Spiderman India?

[@Evan8787]

Hobie Brown existed purely to tick boxes. The Indian Spiderman was just annoying and a one, long racist portrayal of Indians.

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

Teenage white girls like them aka simps

[@dc7981]

People liked hobie cause he’s a likeable dude

[@markhargreaves1069]

So correct me if I am wrong. Anomaly is a character that does not belong to s specific universe. Therefore, how can Miles be the original anomaly when Miguel broke the canon and officially became an anomaly first? Also the spider from earth 42 came into Mile's universe which in itself is an anomaly so shouldn't the canon be broken then and there and Mile's earth collapse as a result? I agree with you on this point there is no cohesion between the movies. Across the spiderverse feels like its own event.