The Problem With Split And Finding Dory

The best part of both movies was the octopus
Select your comedy fish with a legitimately serious diagnosis that is played for laughs:
Generalized anxiety disorder ocean sunfish - / jennynicholson
Insomniac stingray - / jennyenicholson
Borderline personality disorder hammerhead shark - / jennynicholsonvids
Munchausen syndrome lobster - / spiderjewel
Oppositional defiant disorder sea cucumber - / spider_jewel

[@RADARTechie]

"If you are disabled, try harder to not be disabled" -disney

[@handsomebrick]

Imagine that in Bane's voice.

[@RM-cn8pw]

B Cook Literally no such thing was ever implied. The complete opposite, in fact.

[@justcallmeteacup4711]

@@RM-cn8pw Well Dory's short term memory seemed to represent a disability but she never really worked around it. They just had her try harder to remember things and it worked which is not really how disabilities work. That's like saying your depression will go away if you just try harder to be happy. What they should've done was instead find a more practical way for her to navigate situations while having short term memory. Like how Dory's parents set up the shells so she'd find her way home. Instead of just drilling information over and over hoping it would stick, they gave her tools to help her find her way.

[@RM-cn8pw]

Teacup Minc Literally all she did was work around her disability. They didn’t just have her “try harder to remember things” at all. “What hey should’ve done was instead find a more practical way for her to navigate situations” That’s literally what they did throughout the whole movie. It’s like you didn’t even watch it.

[@RM-cn8pw]

Teacup Minc “They just had her try harder to remember things and it worked” That literally never happens once in the movie.

[@justanaverageperson544]

Nothing is as hilarious as hearing you go from a dark movie about abuse and say "And now Finding Dory"

[@ColtNomad]

Just Another Guy "Oh no, not like the ones from Split." Lmao

[@kateg9437]

This is a very old comment, but I just want to reply to say that I find it funny that your username is one that I've used occasionally

[@vivianna8046]

timestamp

[@rooney1640]

@@vivianna8046 6:15

[@aj7058]

​@@kateg9437this is also a very old comment.

[@katbird2699]

So I have short term memory loss, and I went to see this with my mom. About halfway through the movie, she she turns to me, crying, and goes "Kat, That's _you!!"_ And I have never been more offended in my life than that moment when my mother compared me to the blue Ellen Degenerate fish

[@oharrison7014]

😭😭NO

[@AmbroseCadwell]

I've had similar e.g. the high school production of The Curious Incident Of The Dog In The Nighttime where I thought the lead's portrayal of autism was some hardcore stereotypical Rain Man shit and then afterwards the teacher told me "we're ever so grateful, hope you don't mind, you're so brave, we based the performance on you" (Plot twist, I wasn't actually diagnosed til 19 but to everyone else it was so obvious they assumed I must have already been)

[@WaitinInAmber]

@@AmbroseCadwell oh Christ that’s brutal. That’s so wildly inappropriate of them. Not to mention you’re not like, performance fodder or something. You’re not a zoo animal than can just observe and study. I will never get over the way neurotypical people will treat us like we’re less than human, and then act like something is wrong with US.

[@SorowFame]

@@AmbroseCadwell they didn’t even ask if you were ok with that beforehand?

[@TheReZisTLust]

Did you forget about it?

[@Amyphere]

Or worse with Split, “only those with physical proof of abuse deserve sympathy.”

[@stuflames4769]

"Hi, I'm Mister Glass, the villain of Unbreakable. Every time I awkwardly twist my ankle, perhaps by simply standing up, a cascade of broken bones causes my entire body to - " Split - "I don't see scars! Nom nom!"

[@allyli1718]

Yup, like imagine someone with a narcissist parent and who had spent their whole life neglected and dehumanized, but they didn’t have scars so I guess they get the chomp

[@VGobaira]

Yeah that bugs me

[@ecoonrad4753]

I haven't seen Split since it came out, but the way I interpreted it (or at least how I remember it now) was that the scars weren't actually a direct result of her abuse, but rather self harm scars, which "only people who self harm deserve sympathy" is still pretty bad, but maybe a little less?

[@alyssaj8779]

"James McAvoy is a crazy murderer who eats people" I feel like using the actor's real name might not have been the best choice

[@GreatBooker]

You don’t know what Jenny knows! (Jk I’m sure James McAvoy is lovely)

[@fortunatecookie]

It was absolutely the best choice

[@howardpope3932]

Would it be better, if she had used the actor´s false name?

[@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet]

@@howardpope3932 You mean his ''pseudonym''.

[@howardpope3932]

​@@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet I just tried a joke about the phrase "the actor's real name". In my opinion, the "real" is unnecessary, because as far as I know, James McAvoy doesn´t have an "unreal" name, but only one name, his real one. What is an "unreal name" supposed to be, by the way? Is it correct to call a pseudonym that way? Please be lenient toward me if my English isn´t perfect. It isn´t my mother tongue. Friendly greetings from Berlin, Germany!

[@theriverhudson4005]

Haven't seen either of these movies, but I will listen to this woman and her cynicism talk about anything

[@EspiKvltOfficial]

I will listen to this woman and her cynical talk about anything.

[@Bonzulac]

"I will listen to her cynical?" What the fuck are you talking about?

[@EspiKvltOfficial]

OP said cynicism, and Jon tried to tell them they were looking for the word cynical. Which is wrong. As you can clearly see.

[@AgiIeBeast]

+Jon Rogers "Cynicism" is when you're being "cynical". He used the right word.

[@kyleamarias8647]

Something about her passion brings me back to her videos every time.

[@ladywithasword4587]

I'm an amputee so I'm amusing myself by imagining that whenever I really needed it, my leg would grow back. But then it would fall off again once the time of need had passed.

[@sideways5153]

This would be an excellent satire of this entire genre of navel-gazing, self-congratulating story

[@Whatlander]

Having a character with DID as a villain was bad enough for me to have no interest in Split, but having a character with DID represent abuse is way worse. Especially when the disorder itself is so often an involuntary coping mechanism for trauma. Mentally ill folks in general are at a higher risk of being targeted BY abusers. Nothing about this character or movie sounds good.

[@cynthiathornton5762]

I don't even remember if I've seen this movie, but as far as I remember, the character with DID is portrayed as a victim of abuse and that is the cause of his DID, as you mentioned.

[@pegleg2959]

But mentally ill people are also at higher risk of being abusers as well. Also, if we were only ever allowed to write stories that had zero chance of ever offending someone, or were only allowed to show people in a good light, we wouldn't have any stories. Except maybe stuff like three little pigs or little red riding hood, but then furries would probably get offended at implying wolves like to demolish houses by blowing on them, or that they like to eat old ladies.

[@marvynromeu3952]

@@pegleg2959 i get what you say but the issue is that there is almost no movie about DID, so a lot of people are going to watch this movie not knowing what DID is and are going to think that this mental illness is dangerous.

[@pegleg2959]

@@marvynromeu3952 what? They're going to think you get superpowerd sticky hands when you've got DID? So that you can climb the walls like a fly? lmao. Give people a bit of credit, I know humans are stupid, but anyone who believes Spilt represents actual DID isn't a person who's option is worth taking seriously, they'll probably believe in aliens and fairies too. Stop looking for a social problem in every little thing, you want to feel righteous and smart like your Liberal studies professors, and because our society is pretty bloody good, the best way to do it just to twist a silly problem into existence and act like your morally superior because you're annoyed. Sorry for the rant, its just everyone turns everything into some righteous social problem, as if the world is made up of weak minded little babies that can't handle a story, or different opinion, or a joke, ect. As if every work of fiction has to be based in absolute fact, incase people might believe it lmao.

[@cityfey]

@@pegleg2959 stories like split still stigmatize plural people

[@FrogLehane]

That Finding Dory thing is so harmful actually. It will probably just spawn more people who are like: "You can't do something which everyone is supposed to be able to do? Well you are just not trying hard enough, idiot." Great thoughts on both movies!

[@janeeyre1990]

People are already like that. My mom has an incurable degenerative neuromuscular condition similar to ALS, and when she says she can't physically do something (like transfer from her wheelchair to the car), it's not uncommon for people to argue with her about it. Like come oooon, I know that your muscles don't repair themselves anymore and, if I paid attention, I could see that you literally have little divots in your leg from places where the muscle has worn away, but surely you can get up if you just TRIED HARDER, right??

[@storageheater]

I've a friend who went fully deaf three years ago and - even though I'm disabled myself - I was shocked to learn that people even treat deafness like that. I just thought deafness was one of the really obvious and simple ones, that people are familiar with as a concept. But no, "you're not trying hard enough" seems to be pretty universal now. I hated becoming visibly disabled and wished it was something I could hide when it happened, but now I'm like, I think there's a special distrust and anger levelled at invisibly disabled people, or at the very least they're the ones who get the open display of hate that they'd politely conceal around me in the form of pity (if hate being displayed as pity is hard to imagine, this sounds something like "I'd kill myself if I were disabled.")

[@halfbloodprincess989]

@@storageheater Very wise…

[@blakemorton4240]

Sad, but true. I don't know how many times I've heard people tell me "you can't let your disability rule your life". Um....I don't exactly have a choice in the matter! But people don't like hearing that. They seem to prefer to think that it's my CHOICE not to be able to do certain things and that i'm just not trying hard enough to be like them. Ugh :/

[@christianc.christian5025]

@@janeeyre1990 I just saw a woman on Facebook lauding herself for withholding a wheelchair from her daughter who has a genetic illness because it ‘taught her to be strong.’ Keep in mind that this illness causes a predisposition to heart problems, so too much physical exertion can be really dangerous. But hey, at least the mom gets to pat herself on the back about how she taught her daughter to just will away the heart attack.

[@Sakura-uo3qz]

As a disabled person, I really hate this pattern of disabilities being magically 'solved' to create a 'satisfying' story line. It so rarely happens in real life and its reinforcing the idea that were 'broken' in some way. I often see this with non verbal characters as well who just randomly start speaking 🙄🙄

[@Owen-bk5fc]

I haven't seen either movie, but from hearing you describe them, it sounds like both wanted to make a movie about how people with disabilities are actually capable, but didn't trust that any actually disabled people would be capable enough to consult about that theme!

[@erinw.9256]

Owen Greenberg Nailed it, my friend. Nailed it.

[@nbucwa6621]

Owen Greenberg exactly what I was thinking.

[@IamMissPronounced]

Pretty much.

[@arit8009]

Split was about making people who've experienced horrific trauma into monsters, unfortunately.

[@yikes3804]

Ari Thaumiel thats true....i’m still mad they used DID like that. if they’re going so far to make the beast invulnerable, come up with another reason, like possession or something

[@andrewsmith211]

Moral of Finding Dory: "Hey people with disablities... stop being disabled."

[@crackedemerald4930]

It's the "pull yourself by your bootstraps" mentality.

[@askinredroads5132]

yup, instead of finding creative ways to deal with it like toy story theyre just like “get over it and youll be ok!”

[@lqu]

"You're really cramping my style with your negative emotional aura."

[@Jo-sv9io]

*baps a wheelchair-bound amputee with a newspaper* Disney said that if you really need to walk you can make that happen so I think it's time you grow some legs you clown

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

Heard that as a kid, changed my life.

[@caseygreyson4178]

Split is very problematic in its morals regarding those “scars” because often time victims of abuse face comments like that. A lot of people will say “oh, he/she is lying cause they don’t have bruises or scars” but not all abuse is physical. And not only that, but even victims of physical abuse can have their marks fade by the time they go to police or seek out help. It’s just so tragic.

[@jeffo3476]

Doesn't Dory getting lost and separated by her parents and rescued by complete strangers who befriend her and keep an eye on her prove her parents' original point that she needs a keeper to keep her from killing herself by accident?

[@janeeyre1990]

Whether it does or doesn't, the more important question is whether it's a good point to be proving. Let's take the example of three of my friends. My first friend has a brother with a cognitive disability. Growing up, their mom treated them differently: while my friend had to do chores and follow rules, her brother did not, because the mom didn't think he'd be able to understand. So of course his behavior is now completely antisocial and his mom is his fulltime caretaker because he can't take care of himself or be around anyone else. My second friend has had a visual impairment since childhood. Her family tried to treat her similarly: she got different rules and expectations than her non-disabled siblings, with the added message that she would not be able to support herself; at best, she could find a husband to take care of her. She is a very independent and determined person, however, so she became the first one in her family to go to college anyway. Unfortunately, because her family had sheltered her growing up, she thought that she'd be given a fair chance and that she could trust people. She's since learned that there are no enforcement mechanisms to ensure that public universities follow ADA regulations (e.g., providing accessible spaces and reasonable accommodations). She's also learned that muggers and rapists like to go for blind girls because 1) they can't identify them and 2) they aren't valued by society. She's survived and learned how to advocate for herself, but it has been a constant struggle. In contrast, my third friend, who was born with cerebral palsy, did have rules and expectations placed on her. She had to do chores, she had to treat her mom and siblings a certain way, she had to get decent grades. Sometimes it was hard for her to do these things, but she always found a way to make it work. And if she couldn't, her mom would help, but only help: she'd never do it for her. This friend started college knowing she'd have to fight for accommodations and respect, so she went in with the ombudsman's number on speed dial. While college and professional life have been a struggle for her because of inaccessible spaces, lack of accommodations, and ableist students, professors, and coworkers, she was ready for the struggle. Telling children with disabilities they can't take care of themselves is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I understand the impulse to protect them, because of how horribly the world treats the disabled, but far too many kids with disabilities who could have and may have wanted to live independently end up living with caretakers or in institutions their whole lives because of it.

[@carysbebard3690]

Dory is very self sufficient in both films, in the first one whenever she suggests a way forward while Marlin is afraid, she is actually safe. She knows how to navigate the ocean, the times she gets into danger in the second one is when she's trying to follow memory devices other people have given her. She never really relies on the fish around her to caretake.

[@sazbear3913]

I dont think it's a bad thing that they show her as still needing people to help her. Lots of disabled people need carers, that's not because they were raised wrong, not because they havent grown up, and not because they are useless. Lots of disabled people of varying abilities want or need help with things. So I think the one good thing that this movie did was show that she is supported by her friends.

[@peacechickification]

@@janeeyre1990 ummm… The way you act like you can compare different people with 3 totally different disabilities as an apples to apples comparison to make a point feels pretty weird to me. - sincerely, a chronically ill person

[@micahsantander4754]

I had "split" and "Inside out" mixed up in my mind when I read the title (I guess cause Dory is a Disney film and so is inside out) so I was completely shocked when a character being molested came up. For a second there I thought I had really misremembered inside out and that Disney had lost its mind.

[@ohioella]

i'm 3 years late, but same lmaooo i was confused as fuck

[@winstonchurchill624]

Yeah same I just assumed they were both Disney movies at first and I got split mixed up with I think it’s called Turbo?

[@ohioella]

@@winstonchurchill624 LMAO THE SNAIL ONE???

[@pralinec9247]

Same😂😂😂😂😂😂I was like 'there was a gun in Inside Out?????? James McAvoy was in it to? Wow, I didn't remember at all'.

[@Bea-xl9rb]

@@winstonchurchill624 NOT THE SNAILS 😭

[@ChibiChidorii]

I like how you say James McAvoy's name every time you talk about the character because I just imagine the real life James doing all this crazy stuff.

[@soapthesoap]

The thought of this just cracks me up

[@selkieslipskin]

As someone with PTSD who can’t turn their disability off when needed: Thank you.

[@Potassiumkloride]

I know this video is almost a year old, but I'd like to submit my idea for how they could have handled disability better, especially with Dory. I think they should have gone with her memory issues being based largely in a faulty recall mechanism, where the memories are still stored in her brain with no way to access them normally. Over the course of the plot, Dory could discover that she's able to work around it by assigning memory triggers to things around her, which is why she has an easier time remembering things when around familiar people or places. It could have culminated in her finding her parents, unlocking her childhood memories because they were associated with them, and when all is resolved, finding a way to make this style of recall work for her. "This is a weird shell that I hold when someone needs to tell me something important, so it needs to stay in its proper home" or something like that. A lot of people with disabilities have specific items or tools they use, and that sort of thing would also be a cool teaching tool for kids. Imagine teaching a child about not messing with someone's accessibility tools by explaining it like "You remember Dory's 'remembering shell'? Well that thing there helps them do something they have trouble with, like how Dory needs her shell, so it's very important you not touch or move it." This is also obviously just off the top of my head, so the idea is rough, but I think it's at least a jumping off point.

[@FoxloidShiroko]

im so glad to have not been the only person who noticed that about finding dory, especially because even when i was a little kid i was aware of how finding nemo was all about disabilities and was really well executed and it meant the world to me. even marlin, who also has ptsd? finding nemo was about him learning to live with that and finding confidence in himself again and in turn seeing that he can have confidence in his son and in dory. and then.... finding dory just kinda threw all that out the window for the sake of sequel $$$$

[@cometkite]

Also, even though Dory's disability was mostly played for laughs in Finding Nemo, the movie showed she had other skills like knowing how to read or talk to whales. So the overall message for her character was that people with disabilities can still have something valuable to contribute.

[@toluca8371]

Nothing is more hysterical than you referring to Kevin exclusively as James McAvoy, as if James McAvoy himself kidnapped these three girls

[@YvesSMASH]

I remember reading an article that said the Finding Dory script got overhauled because of the popularity of the Blackfish documentary so maybe they had a better message originally but it hinged on people thinking aquariums weren't fish prisons.

[@oldthinkertube]

I suffer from short term memory loss whenever I try to remember anything from Finding Dory, which I saw last weekend:

[@dullroar2673]

remember Sammy Jankis

[@taltoskieron]

I only remember the stones and the truck scene

[@tobuscus6705]

Same. The movie was amazing but had one problem: no memorable moments.

[@xdadxdad4760]

Shady

[@erinw.9256]

Basically, both movies tried to take topics such as disabilities and mental illness and make it positive and uplifting but completely Hollywooded them to make it all like, "It's okay to have a mental illness/disability, but keep it to yourself cos they'll either turn you into a monster/society wants you to hide it cos it's not convenient for society." As someone with ADHD, a learning disability, and all the symptoms that come with both things, I appreciate the fact that Disney and whoever made Split tried, but the outcome and message turned out to be a slap in the face. Either way, I actually enjoyed both movies, I just didn't ponder the messages very well.

[@IamMissPronounced]

Well put

[@andrewsmith211]

I agree. Finding Dory reminded me of a few of my teachers in school. "Oh, you have a diagnosed disorder that makes focusing nearly impossible for you? Have you tried paying attention?"

[@dakat5131]

Yeah it seems like there's a formula movies follow- even if it doesn't make sense, breaks prior plot elements, etc. I get not wanting to deviate so much that nobody can follow the story, but sticking to the formula at the expense of telling a good story just makes it bad.

[@imsadlol4528]

please don’t compare having adhd to dissociative identity disorder and memory loss 💀💀

[@jstarstudios7110]

The people who made split sure as fuck did not try

[@Arlothed1no]

Split would be a good movie if they didn't demonize mental illness. Like, instead of DID, they could have been like "he's possessed by multiple spirits and it has no connection to mental illness". That would have been more interesting, less stigmatizing, and a better explanation for the cannibalism.

[@koffinkiss]

I actually love that concept way more

[@mathmusicminecraft]

That's... Such a good idea. Plus, since DID usually stems from ongoing childhood trauma (at least, I think so. Correct me if I'm wrong) then the main character could have DID from her abuse trauma, which you could play as DID being a good thing because she can manipulate the multiple spirits BC she can extrapolate from her own experience or whatever. I guess the risk though is still equating DID with being similar to or on the same level as that violence and danger and instability. Might make more sense to have literally no DID at all but DAMMIT I want better portrayals of DID somewhere.

[@user-qv2qf1jk5o]

TotallyMature it would depend on when she was abused - the cut off for trauma that causes DID is about 8, so if she was younger that could work

[@IamMissPronounced]

Or they couldve gone with...... a totally different ending lol

[@aloevera3317]

Since he turns into an impervious monster, that would make more sense. Nice profile pic :)

[@atosdejusticaful]

Please become a writer, or screenplay editor, or something like that. Your views are very good.

[@hansbansor5170]

Critizising is way easier than creating. Those who can they do, those who cant they teach.

[@anthonyd8835]

Yeah everyone knows "Jenny Nicholson"'s great films and stories. She obviously has the courage to put her heart and soul into a piece of art and release it for cynical monotone KZbinrs to make videos on

[@IAteFire]

Anthony D Don't be that guy

[@Hjoannette]

She was a co-writer of a parody of MLP:FIM called Friendship is Witchcraft that's as good as wrestling rattlesnakes in a rattlesnake party.

[@crazyweirdgirl115]

@@hansbansor5170 don't drag teachers or people who discuss things. Are you really saying that people who are proficient at a craft never give tips or that craft or analyse it? Should all skilled authors/artists/directors just stay in their bubble, never discussing other people's work?

[@HC_YT]

I really appreciate your insight that the reason she didn't get out of the car at the beginning because of her freezing up that's shown later. I never made that connection and that part was a MAJOR plot hole for me. Thank you!!

[@Deosu]

"He didn't learn to live with his disability, he just found out he didn't have it." like Bruce Willis' marital issues in Sixth Sense? Was Finding Dory ghost written by M.Night?

[@KyleRayner12]

Come to think of it, that *was* how the marital issues subplot got resolved, wasn't it? Man, that movie is just nothing without the twist.

[@emilylike-the-soup2502]

LOL, “ghost written.” I don’t know if the pun was intentional, but kudos either way. :)

[@roughentumble9145]

Umm, Dory has short-term memory loss, so CLEARLY she just forgot sometimes that she forgets things, and that's why she's able to remember stuff. DUH. /s

[@yoboibeerus1387]

W-what? That's how short term memory loss works? Wow! I never knew.

[@mirandathepandakitty1630]

I can’t tell if this is a troll or not

[@roughentumble9145]

@@mirandathepandakitty1630 I was being sarcastic, haha. That's what the "/s" tag means :)

[@longname3141]

I just had the urge to rewrite Momento but with Dory: "I'm looking for someone" Looks at the tattoo of a truck on her fin "They were taken in a truck!"

[@Nadia-dn3xw]

Momento Dori

[@mymelody7332]

@@Nadia-dn3xw unus annus 😔✨

[@ErebosGR]

*Memento

[@unofficialmajima617]

@@mymelody7332 cringe

[@irrelevancepersonified]

Jailhouse Lock

[@UnNoir]

Finding Dory is a lot like The Wizard of Oz... Except when the Tinman, Scarecrow and the Lion get their "missing qualities" from the wizard, it's more a case of him tricking them into seeing they've always had these qualities... Which really doesn't work with disabilities.

[@stuflames4769]

I don't see why you included the words "except when" in your statement.

[@frazier117]

"so-called disabled fish"" made me laugh uncontrollably for some probably terrible reason.

[@willowtdog6449]

I never saw Finding Dory, and I'm really glad now. As a physically disabled person who has dealt with an enormous amount of ableism, I think it would have just pissed me off. The idea that someone can overcome an actual disability by just trying really hard just is not how reality works. If I push too hard, I just get injured and then I can do less physically. In reality, being able to think of workarounds is imperative.

[@BaggyMcPiper]

Your face is more washed out in bright lights with each video Soon you will be an energy being

[@CaptHayfever]

I mean, we only ever see her in digital images, that is, as patterns of light. So from our perspective, she already *is* an energy being.

[@erinw.9256]

CaptHayfever Dann that got deep and weird lol

[@bookshelfhoney]

Jennergy Being

[@crackedemerald4930]

I was afraid to say it

[@DoceDiceAutDicede]

On finding Dory I got this sad aftertaste about her parents who ritualize their grief by making shell-ways 24/7 towards the greyest part of the ocean where they live. like they never couldn't really move on

[@Danishruyu1]

The way I see it, McAvoy's character let her go because her scars were visible, not because they were just there physically, but because he had to see it. Perhaps the movie is trying to say that victims of abuse should speak out and let their stories be known (or seen). That's just one way to look at it

[@NEETfreak1]

No it's that they should wrestle bears and get lots of scars so then future bears might take pity on them.

[@JennyNicholson]

Abdul Shouaib Ooh I like this

[@QDJW]

So then he only hurts people who aren't like him then in turn he hopes to make more people be terrible ?

[@doctorjoker87]

I cannot agree more with this. "The Beast" even says it, "The broken are the more evolved", this "Beast" is clearly telling her and Dennis and Patricia- are that the broken are no longer going to be mocked or made fun or pushed around. That their traumas will be revealed and show them as the stronger of the species, as they will clearly survive whatever purge this "Beast" is planning, as Patricia does mention that he has mentioned targeting larger and larger groups of "impure". I really do see the message of this movie, as it is buried under all of the thriller dramatic themes- is that trauma that makes you "broken", that others belittle and demean one over, actually makes you stronger than those that haven't had such traumas and that you shouldn't hide it or bury it. You should wear it and scream about it, like a badge of honor. You survived, you won, you didn't give in and die. Not the greatest way to phrase that message, but, I think it can be positive, despite the framing of it. Positive in the way, that it encourages victims and survivors of abuse and trauma to speak out about it, even if it is phrased in a rather strange way.

[@Skullkidjynx]

Abdul Shouaib thats kind of a stretch

[@nozzwells]

“It’s kinda weird that Marlin had to learn the exact same lesson again, only this time with his adult friend” made me cackle

[@WerewolfEnjoyer]

*ignores extremely insightful movie commentary* Heh, "BB my valentine".

[@erinw.9256]

Matthew Craig I just noticed it lol

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

Movie: Maybe we can have this abuse victim complete her arc by finally taking power back from her abuser and fighting back, getting over her established mental block of being unable to fight someone who shows a kinder side, even if they’re a threat, which is something many abuse victims have struggled with. Movie: Nah, that makes no sense at all, let’s just have the guy feel sorry for her and have him just decide to let her go of his own volition, because remember, kids, having been abused is a strength and makes you more evolved because ... an abuser will probably feel sorry for you and validate your pain and let you go, even if you never learn how to defend yourself. We’re so smart and sensitive and subversive!

[@Infovorousness]

I think the moral is “It doesn’t matter how messed up you are emotionally, mentally, or physically as long as you got plot armour you’ll be fine.”

[@stuflames4769]

Make fun if it, but that shit works. Always inquire about your plot armor, on every physician visit.

[@emerycorner]

5:57 It gives the vibe of "physical abuse is worse than mental, emotional, etc." When a lot of times, they're all connected.

[@Emily-df9dk]

Dory was remembering things from long-term memory, so it makes a *little* more sense, as her disability involves short-term or working memory. There is the question of if she has literally always had this disorder wherein things aren't encoded into her working memory, how do they make it to her long-term memory? THAT's the real question, along with if she actually does anything to achieve a solution, which I agree she doesn't. But maybe the solution is that she needs to rely more on long-term memory somehow, or just finding out that there is that aspect wherein she's alright, even though she didn't know it? Dory's disorder kinda reminded me of extremely severe ADD. I've always had severe ADD (like my mom had to warn school chaperones on field trips that I would wander off. I don't remember an episode warranting this fear, and I really should ask her about that, but I know I did disappear sometimes, from wandering off or playing hide-and-seek without telling anyone else to find me (?)). I had this really weird knack for not remembering things people told me to do, and not remembering temporal information, but being able to remember visual stuff, especially words I'd read, and things I saw while listening to something. I remember a lot of things vividly, but can't "be bothered" to remember to do laundry, or birthdays, appointments, names, (oddly enough) faces, etc (or the order in which the letters go to make that abbreviation; I always say and type "ECT"). Like me (?) Dory remembers things she learned, things with more semantic formation, although she's a very hyperbolic figure for, if I'm right, ADD (and probably something else in addition?). It's been years since I saw the movie, but I remember the most relating a lot to especially her parents' fears that she'd get lost or die or something. What solution is there for problems like Dory's? For me, there's recording lectures, writing things on my hand, etc, but I'm stumped as to what a little fish could do.

[@steeevealbright]

Please write films. You are like really fucking smart.

[@krombopulos_michael]

Stephen Albright writing films from scratch is very different to finding problems in existing films

[@Yusuf1187]

But it's a huge step in the right direction. A lot of people just excuse problems in films or don't recognize them at all. Someone who can see all the issues will be more conscious of avoiding such errors in their own writing.

[@chocolatecharley99]

She should be hired as a script doctor

[@crackedemerald4930]

@@chocolatecharley99 scroptor as cool people say

[@albertskoften1452]

She actually did, you know, create a web series once. It was really good.

[@zyxflame]

I don't really have anything to contribute I just want people to read things that I write.

[@brendansapp]

cool

[@zyxflame]

Thanks man, you're pretty cool too.

[@Bonzulac]

Good story, bro.

[@collinkhan4163]

Alright then.

[@budderslime67]

nice.

[@courtneyhineman3431]

We should not have to overcome our disability. What we need to overcome is the way society treats people with disabilities: the low expectations, not being treated fairly, not being included and places being inaccessible

[@thestig863]

You are the best. I live with mental illness and you absolutely nailed how Finding Dory made me feel. Also Jeez can't they have a medium adventure? Fish and invertebrates stealing trucks...

[@GippyHappy]

Dory shouldn't have been the main character. Making her disability something she needs to overcome is a bad moral because it's just not something that can be done in real life. It gives the feeling that, if you believe in yourself and work really hard, you won't have a mental disability. But that's just not how it works. The characters that need to learn a moral in this movie are Marlin, Nemo and Dory's parents. This should be about how THEY learn to cope with Dory's memory, not how she learns to get over it. P.S I forgot that you even talked about Split for a sec lol. I like what you said about how if the main girl hadn't had physical scars, she would not have been seen as “damaged”. That's the annoying part because it's true in real life too. If people can't see your problem (Like depression or autism) than they have difficulty understanding it. What if the other girls had been molested as well, but simply didn't self harm because of it? Is their pain not as valid?

[@woodfur00]

You have a point that Dory wasn't the one in need of a lesson about disability but like… that's a hell of a leap to "she shouldn't have been the main character" Disabled people rarely get to be the heroes of their own stories and even more rarely get to be the focus of a story that isn't about disability

[@GippyHappy]

@@woodfur00 I’m obviously not saying people with disabilities and mental problems can’t be main characters, be reasonable. The point is she can’t have an arc without it being about overcoming her disability. She has a short term memory problem, what lesson could she possibly learn that wouldn’t be immediately forgotten? More over, I really meant that if they wanted to be be about Dory’s memory problem, it should have been about how the other characters (and her) cope with it, not about how she needs to get over it.

[@edgarallenhoe3518]

@@GippyHappy I think it could have been done if the mechanism for learning how to cope with her memory problems was more realistic. Instead of "try harder," what if they had researched methods people with memory problems in real life use? There's another comment in this section about using visual cues as a memory trigger.

[@Julia-hu8ff]

Commenting on this very old video because every time I think about Split I want to scream into the void so might as well do it here - every time the media uses multiple personalities as storytelling device it is super problematic for mental health workers and patients. DID has a bad history with media, all starting with a movie that exaggerated the details of a woman who even later claimed to have lied about her multiple personalities. This lead to a surge in cases which mimicked that of the film's character. Now whether or not you think DID is real, we have proof that the people who present the symptoms of multiple personalities respond highly to both the attention the diagnosis brings and the way it is represented in stories. So long story short, I have heard a lot of people argue that the science fiction element makes Split not really about DID but that doesn't make it less dangerous. If you have dissociative episodes, how much would it freak you out to constantly be presented with the notion that you might be off murdering someone and then not remember? And the way to movie ends, the less violent personalities still take the side of the beast. So not only did they fail to complete the narrative of using the personalities as a metaphor for abusers, they send the message that he is only worth the most dangerous aspect of his condition.

[@hell0mega]

thank god someone with actual criticism for finding dory and not just toting it as "oh it's dory!!! it's good!! great movie!!" i don't come out of theaters disappointed very often (that comes later) but i was just... wide-eyed at the fact that people think it was as good or god forbid BETTER than nemo. wtf

[@IamMissPronounced]

It was terrible. One of the most disappointing sequels I've seen

[@melissahitt7979]

The portrayal of Disassociative Identity Disorder in split was nonsense and harmful.

[@geensloth911]

Melissa Hitt the portrayal of DID in Split was a misdirection. Obviously people with DID don't develop super powers and begin feasting on the flesh of high school girls..

[@melissahitt7979]

I mean... sure, but who cares? If you're gonna make a story about DID, don't do that. It's been done. It's tired.

[@bentonbravo3404]

_What a pity, what a pity!_ Oh dear. What a tragedy.

[@sg5067]

Um.... This movie has aspects of magical realism so not everything is scientifically accurate. He literally turned into a creature by the end?

[@melissahitt7979]

Saghar Ghezel sure, but there’s this ridiculous view of DID that I don’t like and things like this contribute, even with the ending. It was nonsense.

[@hwoarangthedoorbell]

"Honey, you need to kill me soon!" "How am I gonna do that?!" [points to shotgun] [Curb Your Enthusiasm theme plays]

[@erinw.9256]

hwoarangthedoorbell That part made me a little sad.

[@bloopbloopbloopbloopbloop]

I've heard a lot of people were upset about Split because of the way it depicts people with dissociative identity disorder

[@stuflames4769]

You can double, or greater, that number for each person that actually has dissociative identity disorder.

[@MultiSese13]

@@stuflames4769 I that supposed to be a joke ?

[@stuflames4769]

@@MultiSese13 are you not amused?

[@MultiSese13]

@@stuflames4769 no im not

[@MultiSese13]

@@stuflames4769 and if i take your joke as an example 36 people found that joke not funny

[@MelodicQuest]

So the moral of Split is that victims of abuse will only get help if it becomes obvious to others that the person being victimized is visually suffering. Not, that an abused person can overcome their trauma in order to accomplish what they need to do. The moral of Finding Dory is that disabilities and physical limitations are all just in your head.

[@kerrychristensen7204]

Thank you. I was stuck trying to organise my thoughts so I could write a comment, but then *here you were~* 👏

[@yoboibeerus1387]

They are not just in your head. A disability is, well, a disability. It would be a better fit if she would overcome her disability not by time she needed to, because that's lazy writing.

[@talinite5916]

I honestly love how people here are taking a break from politics and disagreeing over nice things like fish and disabilities

[@jacobdriscoll8276]

No such thing as a break from politics. This Video vs. Betsy DeVos RE: people with disabilities.

[@rmtrainer7]

Talinite lmfao 😹 "nice things like fish and disabilities"

[@erinw.9256]

I didn't realize having a disability was nice. Then again, I've been living with a few my whole life so how would I know?

[@keegster7167]

+Erin the Fnadom Writer I'm sure he meant 'nice things [with respect to speaking about them]' with that in the brackets implied, thus not being nice things in and of themselves.

[@Onigirli]

@@erinw.9256 Don't be mean. I'm sure you know what they meant

[@p-both2070]

Never though I would see a video with split and finding dory in the same video but hey why not 😀

[@semogecarg]

I legitimately snorted at you very seriously saying "the octopus has ptsd" honestly that whole section with no context is amazing

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

I want to be like Dory and just not have my disabilities when they inconvenience the plot

[@WelfareChrist]

I love how serious and enthusiastic your movie reviews are. Children internalize these lessons and it is both negligent and and condescending for the writers of Finding Dory to phone it in the way they did. I mean imagine being a disabled child watching this movie only to find out there’s no overcoming your disability - only the bizarre hope that it will magically disappear. SAD ☹️

[@moviecorner4181]

Excellent breakdown and analysis. It seems like the writers of these films don't really understand how to resolve the conflicts in their own stories in a meaningful way. It's like Lost ending with everyone just going to "heaven."

[@emmablanche9954]

your idea of the abuse metaphor would have been way better!! i really enjoyed split, but even when watching it i knew i only liked it because of the flashbacks and acting and other stuff like that, not the ending.

[@jistone7851]

Considering that the first movie developed some good remembering techniques towards the end for Dory, it was SO disappointing how dirty they did that character in the new one

[@paulmarko]

The sneezing fish DOES show up again. To swallow two other fish in comedic slow-motion, then sneeze them out.

[@paulmarko]

Also, when you're talking about the way Dory remembers things, they actually set that up earlier in the film. In the school scene, the manta ray describes to the little kids in the background that some fish can find their way home not by memory, but by instinct. I think this is what they were going for. There's several allusions to this later, like how she says "I'll know them when I see them," and how she intuits her way to the kelp to find her parents house. It's all about her learning to trust her instinct.

[@pierinmess5415]

OMG The hunger in the comments.

[@FManAngryAmerican]

Pierin Mess I'm hunger for a Honey BBQ Chicken Strip Sandwich.

[@tibne2412]

I really feel like an ice cream right now, it's warm outside.

[@19torento]

If people get hungry for Judy Hopps from Zootopia, they'll be hungry for pretty much anybody.

[@ZachBobBob]

THIRST*

[@erinw.9256]

WHAT is this thread lol

[@GalacticKush]

At the beginning of Split, Kevin wasn't ignoring Casey, he just didn't realize she was there. There was supposed to be only two girls in the car, because he had been watching them for some time and hand selected them for being "pure".

[@nhuljpm]

I often wonder if these themes are written in at the start but then some super smart person with a very stylish clipboard comes in during the edits and decides that “audiences won’t understand/like that”. I really liked your read on where split was going too, and was similarly frustrated when it turned out that she only skated by because she could evidence her past trauma. Which is actually a fairly abhorrent message

[@jaqf]

same problem with sky high and my hero academia. oh, the main character doesn’t have superpowers and needs to learn to empower themselves? never mind they’re actually the strongest person on the planet they’re just late bloomers. at least encanto kind of did it right.

[@rainhappy2233]

The scene in Split where Casey survives the beast character made me cringe and laugh at the same time. If I get mugged at knifepoint in an alleyway I'll show him my self mutilation and if he doesn't release me out of pity or mutual damage then I'm suing M. Night Shyamalan.

[@theklavasiliou2624]

exactly she should’ve survived because being “broken” made her smarter not because of her scars. not all abused or “broken” people have physical evidence and you wouldn’t just yell to the monster chasing you about your experience edit: but they needed James’ character for the next movie so the only way was for both of them to survive

[@doggyspeak]

I'm so mad, the "group of disabled fish work together to escape to the ocean" is just the dentist office fish from the first movie!

[@bluetannery1527]

Jenny. You're about to hit 100k. I am hella proud of u

[@instantkarma1636]

The line about the doctor telling him he's better than regular people, I'm pretty sure is supposed to have cemented the idea in his head which is the catalyst for him being able to manifest the aspects of "The Beast", since he truly believed he was next evolutionary step and was capable of those things.

[@bsqwahlE]

You have such a unique perspective, you see things I don't, and you are so entertaining. Thank you.

[@CourtneyCoulson]

I feel like if Finding Dory had been made in Pixar's golden age it could have been something remarkable. But at this point they are basically creatively bankrupt, they didn't think this plot though at all. I did find it entertaining but the metaphors and themes don't hold up.

[@lucyw4195]

I agree, I liked the movie but it was, first and foremost, just a fun adventure film. The director/writer seemed more focused on writing an exciting thrill-ride with quirky characters than exploring weighty themes, and that's fine....but in that case it makes more sense to just remove references to those weighty themes altogether. Leaving them in seems messy and, like you said, nothing holds up.

[@steamboatwill3.367]

there is no golden age of anything, there never was nor will their ever be one.

[@EngelSpiel]

Steamboat Willie. What about gilded? As if there’s just the perception of a “golden” age?

[@dakat5131]

@@lucyw4195 from this review it sounds like they may even have had a coherent draft at some point, but then for some reason (possibly interference at the company?) they had to change some things and then it no longer made sense or conveyed the story they wanted to tell anymore. But then again, maybe I'm giving the writers/etc too much credit.

[@socks458]

I just want to chat with you about movies and drink tea.

[@EnoEnasni]

You have your lights too bright today. Thanks for the video.

[@dalelenze3736]

Or the camera ISO too high, or the aperature too fast. You don't know your shit. Please know what're talking about before making comments.

[@user-qf6yt3id3w]

NEEDS MORE GAMMA!

[@user-vh8bm9mu4u]

Way to jump down their throat, Dale. The OP was just pointing out what we all see, no need to show you "know the exact reason why the picture is bright". Clearly we know who here doesn't have a Valentine's date :P

[@GeonQuuin]

Dale Lenze aperture is the size of the lens' opening. high ISO would've made this video extremely grainy with a shitton of noise. Stop pretending. You're only making a fool of yourself.

[@user-vh8bm9mu4u]

Ewin, she's a ghost! egad! even scarier than Resident Evil 7!! aaaaaa!

[@notsally]

THANK YOU. I tried to explain all the points you make about Split to people that have watched it, because they couldn't understand why I hated it (it's like the moral of the story is "getting abused as a kid is good because it makes you stronger!"). Fuck that toxic message!

[@elliottc-c8777]

As someone with DID, it's great to see one of my favourite youtubers supporting our community by tearing this movie apart.

[@Ta-bz9iy]

As someone with C-PTSD and a form of DID like the guy in Split… that movie is so fucking wrong, and on so many levels. When you talk about Split, I really wish people would take a little more notice of the fact that it’s really damaging to represent a disorder so badly, if/when it’s already still massively stigmatized and misunderstood by the general public. But you also made a really good point about the girl’s theme of abuse, and… basically everything you said about Dory was so on point. Love your channel by the way!! just subscribed :D

[@thejaysusnetwork6102]

They did write her off, at the beginning, when it was revealed she was a loner and troublemaker at school and only at the party because everyone got invited.

[@JamesTAbernathy]

Jenny, all your videos are hilarious and well-made. You deserve millions of subscribers. Keep up the good work!!

[@gingersan4377]

Hi, someone with short term memory loss here :) I actually thought they represented short term memory loss and how it feels to have it, pretty accurately! I've been living with it from a tbi for the last 6 years. My memory has gotten a lot better with time but, in my particular case it will never go away. Its not consistent either, as far as what I remember and when. Tons of factors go into that such as sleep, food, and external stimuli. Also I've found a lot of my personal rememberings with stms is just me desperately grabbing onto any information around me to help me remember. Yeah a lot of things are definitely convenient 😂, but as far as how it feels and the frustration one may feel, how you may or may not be believed when you say you don't remember, and how much of a duality it can be as far as the happy to sad scale goes! I cried cause it is a little dark, like you said. Emotionally is was pretty accurate. I have no idea of they consulted anyone with stml or a tbi for Dory's character as a whole. Definitely worth finding out. Love your videos, and I appreciate the time you put into explaining the subject, facts, and your perspective of whatever fandom, movie, etc you dive into!

[@xXsdsrcptcXx]

"the problem with split and finding dory" you couldve made this video like 5 seconds long by saying the title then just "ABLEISM!" (especially with split like HELLO DEMONIZING DID MUCH ???)and then its over, but ur analysis of both was also very good

[@AmazingBob228]

That's such a fucking awesome bedspread.

[@user-vo1ik6qd5e]

Omg I just realized Garret Watts is a patron that makes me so happy aww

[@d1z192]

“...they think she’ll just immediately get lost and like.. eaten by something” followed by taylored-suit James McAvoy photograph, - is mainly how Finding Dory and Split shared a theme. Solid.

[@adamb4140]

Only Jenny Nicholson can talk about split and finding dory in tbe same video, i love your channel

[@11tw48]

"We also see flashbacks of Dory's childhood - oh god, not in that way!"

[@soulmechanics7946]

I have pretty severe issues with memory due to damages to my brain. I have not seen the movie, but your description actually fits the bill about perfectly. The problem is not losing memory, that does not actually happen, the problem is accessing memory, and cues in your environment will solve the issue if you can manage to make a habit of looking for them and know how to go about it. The implication would be that the world is actively assisting you, as though it were alive and aware of your situation.. which is correct. Myself and many others can genuinely attest to the astonishing measure at what this fact will evidence itself given any such opportunity to do so. Just sane. That is real.

[@jakekeeton5013]

Jenny you are great at what you do, you have an ability to breakdown the themes of movies and the impact they have an audience in a way I could only dream of doing. Keep doing what you're doing and I'll keep coming back to watch. You're awesome

[@Starlingg]

"The broken are more evolved" sounds like something Bane would say.

[@WobblesandBean]

You're totally right about the guy being some sick metaphor of the multiple facets and forms abusers take, but as an abuse survivor, I find it really, really wretched that Shyamalan chose to take this the direction he did. And, yeeeaaaahhhh...Finding Dory is reeeeaaally problematic in that regard. It's like...hey kids, if you're disabled, guess what, you should be able to just get over it if you try hard enough, and if it doesn't magically un-disable itself, then I guess you're just fucked, oh well! Remember to buy Disney brand Finding Dory backpacks with matching lunchbox!

[@tinseltina]

every time i hear the theory for how split was going to end, i just get really cynical because that ending would only happen if shamaylan was actually a good writer. and im sad to say that, but my experience with his films are like he WANTED to have a point but just missed the mark. he WANTS to be wise and clever, but he isn't, not with his writing anyway.

[@Vansmackable]

Love your sense of humor Jenny, keep the videos coming!

[@onemadhungrynomad]

new jenny nicholson video? first priority!

[@reybravo215]

A plush toy makes an appearance midway through the video on the shark, is that an easter egg I'm missing?

[@JennyNicholson]

Rey Bravo Mr. Toad wanted to join the party

[@MackerelSkyLtd]

He heard you talking about crashing cars in Finding Dory, and thought that sounded like a wild ride.

[@erinw.9256]

Lol

[@jkrincon]

Your videos always give me insight I could have never thought of myself. Thank you so much for sharing them with us, and I hope you continue making them.

[@cb-yr7sf]

Jenny's ending is like 110% better than the ending the movie had. If Jenny made a movie I would most definitely watch it because she actually knows how to make one lmao

[@kiwialberts8455]

One of the patrons... WAS ALEXANDER HAMILTON

[@erinw.9256]

Lé Kiwi ShiT WHAT?!?!

[@moltendiamonds1567]

Cool

[@1mrbremos]

It's not James McAvoy, it's Kevin Wendell Crumb!

[@JennyNicholson]

Mr.Bremos96 It was James McAvoy as himself

[@1mrbremos]

Jenny Nicholson Why do you say that?

[@JennyNicholson]

Mr.Bremos96 It looked just like him

[@1mrbremos]

Jenny Nicholson​ Well... Okay, fair enough.

[@pokesok]

Mr.Bremos96 ir

[@TickTockTimeTraveler]

I love your videos! Please keep this stuff up, I love how you analyze this with such spice omg

[@Keopro]

Regarding Finding Dory, I think it was a flawed but that the point was she connects things with places. As someone with terrible short-term memory, it's possible her memory doesn't completely go away but that she has trouble recalling those memories. The things that really work for me are the coping mechanisms taught by the parents (following shells, "Just keep swimming" and the pipe scene being a spot-on example of recalling instructions vs recalling completed actions.