The Problem With Support Characters in Honkai: Star Rail

Support units (AKA Harmony) have gotten excessively overpowered as of late. Not only are they extremely strong in boosting their team's damage but they can cover a lot of situations, enabling them to be used for many teams, potentially at the expense of other units. Today we'll be discussing the problem with new support characters, and how I think they're advancing the game's power creep a little too fast.
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#HonkaiStarRail #Robin #HoyoCreators

[@VarsII]

TL;DR - Hoyo. Please. STOP GIVING US OP CHARACTERS. MY WALLET IS FILING DIVORCE PAPERS AS WE SPEAK T_T

[@GokaikillerTobi]

You dislike that Sparkle, Ruan mei and Robin offer so much as supports but praise Bennett for doing all in genshin. Sounds a lot like bias on your end, while its not necessary to pull for each 5 star harmony but the fact they offer so much without the other being outclassed is good, variety is key. To further illustrate this how many comps in genshin don't require Kazuha or Bennett, the fact they're still the most used when it comes to supports is sad as any future support released in genshin is already invalid r unless they provide something exclusive to their respective elements they won't be used over those two.

[@ДюсековИльяс]

​@@GokaikillerTobi that's because Bennet is a 4 star, so he will eventually show up to an account, outside of other units

[@VarsII]

@@GokaikillerTobi HUH??? I literally made an entire video talking about how Bennett (and by extension the rest of the Power Five) have completely killed my any reason to pull for new four stars. I made *several* videos complaining about Bennett: Power Five, Problem with Four Stars, the Pyro element. I make videos talking about how he's one of the best characters in the game, just like how I say Sparkle, Robin and Ruan Mei are some of the best units in Star Rail. Where is this bias you speak of LOL. Did you even watch the video?

[@NothingMeansNothingButNothing]

@@GokaikillerTobi he dislike Bennett for his strength too you know?

[@devilassassin9385]

I guess one important point you may have overlooked is hsr will never have a power 5, because the pace of endgame will rise soo far that in next year sparkle ,ruan mei and robin will be inferior by then

[@wongo6828]

My philosophy while playing Star Rail. “Always go for the support characters, you never know when you need them.” Which is why my account ended having too many supports and few DPS.

[@buttermanaws4693]

Yeah same with mine, it eventually lead to only my DoT team to do any damage

[@weregretohio7728]

Same and I'm like, who TF do I pull for now? The DPS get powercrept so regularly, too, so do I really want to pull for Jingliu when Boothill and Sam are coming? Or do I spend my time getting yet another support because Robin has a cool design and is yet another OP support? You end up with 1 or 2 teams you can't switch out of. Not as a F2P at least. Not when you're pushed more and more toward eidolons and light cones you can't afford.

[@jackmanleblanc2518]

@@weregretohio7728 Just pull for characters you like then. Do you like Jingliu, Boothill, or Sam more? Pick whoever you like more. It doesn't matter if Jingliu gets powercrept if you can still complete MoC with at least 20 cycles remaining. Unless you care about 0 cycling for some reason, it shouldn't matter.

[@plutoadmirer9904]

Same lmao. I have built ruan mei, sparkle, bronya, Silver Wolf, but the best DPS i have is QQ 🗿

[@ibrahim5463]

Get general dps like blade, the dude is collecting infinty stones with each new support(bronya ruan mei sparkle tingyun and jade)

[@Idknlandwh123]

as someone said: powercreep isn't bad when 1 character better than 2, powercreep is bad when old characters cannot complete something new even when you spend a lot on this character

[@Assassin21BEKA]

And it didn't happen yet

[@MCHR92]

@@Assassin21BEKA But that's the thing, the yet, so far direct competition has not been that heavily explored, they have 49 slots for 5 stars before they have to make a 5 star that shares the path and element than another... then with this tendency, is bound to happen. Acheron and Kafka is the only example, but in Acherons case she is not making the competition with Nihility but the dps trio, Jing Yuan already stands no chance, so the next electro Hunt and Destruction will have it hard to feel unique or stronger. 28 down, so in 11 more patches the appearance of copies will start, and like Vars said, you don't have things like elemental application, cooldown to better fit into rotations, etc, that comes with real time combat, if the new character E and ultimate is worst in numbers, with this 0 weakness supports which makes it more streamlined to just get the OP units that break the others, but what happens once we get the new set of harmony on the same elements than these 3?

[@Romashka_Sov]

​​​​​@@MCHR9249 slots 💀 It's much less though, because only damage dealing classes really need a certain element (unless mono quantum for SW buffs), so all those Abundance, Preservation, Harmony and Nihility debuff characters compete with each other no matter the element. If they make another Ruan Mei but in Fire element, she will not have any different teams or relic sets, both will be good for the same teams and with the same equipment. So that's more like 30 slots until 5* characters will repeat. Except this does not matter. We already have 2 chars with the same element and path: Kafka and Acheron 👍 So, it's not even element/path competition, it's role/playstyle competition. Currently we have next roles: Heal, buff, debuff, damage, which are overlapping with 6 play styles: regular, specialist, FUA, DoT, Break, and HP drain. That's 4*6=24 competing roles (actually it's a bit more but who cares), and we reached this amount of 5* characters already

[@TheActualDogempire]

Yep, I'm very worried about the state of the game's powercreep because if units just keep getting stronger and stronger then there's no point in investing in old units when new ones just plain outperform everyone. Why pull for Blade when they released Blade 2.0 who does everything he does but better? Same with Seele

[@MCHR92]

@@Romashka_Sov Yeah you are right on that, my point was more on the eventuality that roles and elements will get repeated soon. In the case of Kafka and Acheron they circumvented the conflict by making Acheron a full on DPS that requires more of their kind to function... but in doing so she already occupied the roles that the electro dpses will have to compete further down the line. If they don't deal damage as equal as Acheron or "easier"... why bother? And if they do, said character will just throw more dirt to the ones left behind, Acheron already ignores a lot of mechanics so she is only getting stronger as more nihilities with better synergy get added.

[@risusama]

We're reaching a point in the game where characters either do everything or do 1 specific thing so well it overshadows everyone and everything else

[@sammysaito529]

Ruan Mei is both

[@aidanarmaggeddon]

​@@sammysaito529I'd argue Robin since at the highest level clears, Robin outperforms Ruan Mei in all teams Hypercarry, DOT, FUA and Break because of her action forward. Granted for more casual play RM is better because of her comfort and SP positivity.

[@danha3107]

tbf, that's literally just how power creep works. We're only mad that it's so blatant and fast and that it's by such a huge margin. If characters at the power level of the "power 3" were released maybe a year down the line (alongside all the meta DPSes) with a more gradual power creep, I doubt the outrage would be so loud. We'd see the writing on the wall

[@unknownarea7659]

@@aidanarmaggeddon But Robin is also SP positive, and she is also pretty comfy, the only difference is that Ruan Mei buffs break effect and Res Pen at E0. Though you're right, Robin is at the highest tier rn.

[@anandasatria7734]

​@@unknownarea7659Not really, since in concerto state she couldn't do anything to contribute to team SP. Pretty negative tbh

[@TealZero]

The problem is that I DON'T HAVE ANY 5 STAR HARMONY

[@einfachnikola5965]

Same

[@jellomello984]

The problem is I have every single one and now i dunno if I should collect 5* harmonies

[@asumi_channn961]

Sunday might be a harmony character considering his boss leaks

[@paulyvii]

Puil for Robin then

[@revdrianinvian1841]

If you're new then take it easy. But if you've been playing for a long time then that's on you for not being wise with your pulls. #stopthinkingwithyourdick

[@minhluong6875]

"Dps will get powercreep eventually while support is always nice to have around" is the way im playing the game rn Update: i lost the 50/50

[@karenwang313]

That’s how you end up with a bunch of cracked supports with no dps for them to buff.

[@cannibalman8175]

And then there's me who just pulls for whoever I like. Everyone will get powercrept eventually, even supports. So, why not have fun while they're still good?

[@flying-ship]

That's what I was told at the beginning of the game, but I'm increasingly finding it _not_ to be the case. I mean, technically, Acheron is stronger DPS than Seele or Jing Yuan, but far from being made obsolete, the earlier DPS remain sufficiently strong thanks to successions of powerful supports keep buffing them. So much so, that you don't really _need_ the latest and the greatest DPS to clear contents. In fact, my Jing Yuan is stronger now than ever, easily coping with MoC 12, Pure Fiction and SU, despite the end game contents becoming considerbly harder since 1.0

[@Carlisho]

@@cannibalman8175im dumping my life savings on Firefly I dont care if she gets powercrept Im not taking her out of my team 😭

[@touyasatou5057]

To be fair that's usually how a lot of games are I had a game that was released like 5 years ago and the supports that were released at the time the game 1st came out are still one of the best supports for the game compared to the dps at that time which are basically useless now

[@saemonarogue787]

Honestly, as a f2p, I think it only becomes a problem if you can't reasonably complete end game content without them. But with the sheer power these supports bring, it wouldn't surprise me if end game content got "buffed" making clearing without the 5* supports a chore and a half.

[@Kyle81290]

Content always gets balanced around the OP units. * FGO flashbacks of Merlin release *

[@sierraamaya]

And whats to come.

[@TebbleTV]

Compared to Genshin, the end-game repeatable content really feels like you need the limited 5 stars to succeed because of how the combat works. In Genshin if I have a good enough team of the right elements or reactions I can do really well and only struggle on floor 12 trying to get all 3 stars. In Star Rail, if you don't have the featured characters to take advantage of the buffs then you are going to struggle because the combination of different archetypes of characters can't properly make use of the buffs because of not the right kit and element weakness of enemies.

[@Fr00stee]

it already got buffed with moc 11-12 existing, plus the new boss rush mode

[@Kyle81290]

@@Fr00stee And even that wasn't enough because one patch later they reduced the cycles and doubled the boss HP

[@ibrahim5463]

Ok when you were doing that cooking analogy at the start i expected a factor sponsorship ad to show up

[@VarsII]

HAHAHAHAHAHA. I CAN SEE THAT NOW 😂

[@valkyriek82]

Hanya and Yukong rotting in the grave rn sheesh

[@andrewmattar4178]

Soon, Tingyun, Asta and even Bronya, will join them.

[@tygerlillee]

​@@andrewmattar4178 Noooooo!!!

[@Jardrin]

@@andrewmattar4178 Nah, they'll likely still be relevant just for availability alone. The OP harmony characters are still tied to their banners, and some players might not have them... (Totally not missing Ruan Mei because I didn't pull her)

[@deismuarti]

I still use hanya a lot. She's one of my most used characters.

[@tsumugishirogane2300]

they're both good just not used, in terms of sp only, hanya is better than sparkle, and yukong is really loved by hypercarry teams players

[@saimfaisal6795]

The problem with harmony characters is that I DONT HAVE ENOUGH GOOD HARMONY LIGHT CONES. SRSLY MY YUKONG STILL ON 3 STAR LC!!!

[@plasma6337]

Just go Cog, ez

[@Sansrival1113]

Then you already have a good harmony LC, MESHING COGS

[@Jardrin]

what do you mean? Said 3* LC is one of the best in the game for how efficient it is despite it's rarity.

[@mrdeafter]

cogger is 5 stars in disguise and there are many free 4 stars as well

[@mp9104]

Meshing Cogs? That’s actually really useful.

[@pulledporc5334]

I like to think that from a design standpoint, the goal with characters like Robin when compared to Ruan Mei is to have some character redundancy. Both do essentially the same thing with some specific scenarios where they perform individually better. Since characters have limited runs, this gives players who didn't get Ruan Mei a strong alternative and vise-sersa when Ruan Mei returns. I feel Adventurine and Fu Xuan are a similar case of redundancy where both are busted units at base, so getting either one is good for your account, but each have situations where they perform slightly better.

[@gabrielsillos1433]

fu xuan with her cone got me the bad habit of ignoring out of combat hp... thus i cannot leave her out of any teams that deal with that.

[@pulledporc5334]

​@@gabrielsillos1433 lol, i know that feels, especially in sim universe where you can just ignore the consequences of losing 80% hp for a 3 star buff.

[@ArchyPoppy]

​@@gabrielsillos1433ever since i pulled an e1 aventurine (both in the same 10 pull i dont pull for e1s) i have never used his skill and to this day i didnt heal any of my characters i use with him. His shields are too thicc and hes too sp positive lmao

[@raihanrusli2720]

Watching sparkle and bronya on auto play is like eating only the seasonings

[@UriGerhard]

Me when I have too much thyme on my hands

[@SweetYeya]

the nier OST is giving me nostalgia hits

[@Accountthatexists]

Banger game

[@Mikiiiiiiiiiip]

feels weird cuz I just finished my session of nier today and heard this theme for hours. And now it’s here again

[@rajaryan-fe1oy]

I KNEW I'D HEARD THAT SOMEWHERE

[@VarsII]

Top 5 "this game fucked me up forever" games.

[@Senguh]

Not getting the newest dps or sustain character doesnt seem like a big deal in hsr, but not getting the newest support makes your account weaker.

[@twinkletuinkuru]

New supports, new sustain and Acheron, lol

[@XastherReeD]

Here is another issue: I took a break right before Ruan Mei released and returned for Acheron. I have neither Ruan Mei nur Sparkle and now the end-game content, which I could clear with relative ease before, is significantly harder, sometimes simply impossible for me to clear. Hoyo balances heavily around these powerful Supports, expecting players to have the extra damage % or just sheer damage numbers provided. This wouldn't be an issue if it was like Genshins Power5, since they are 4-Stars. Instead, balancing around limited 5-Stars essentially means that I am forced to pick up one of these overloaded 5-Stars or right off on endgame content altogether.

[@omppu65]

Yeah I hate how they buffed the enemy hp in pure fiction and are apparently doing it again. I was able to clear first 2 pure fictions nicely but nowadays I struggle so much

[@XastherReeD]

@@omppu65 They are literally creating a problem and selling us the solution. With Gacha price tags.^^

[@SH1NK1R01]

Acheron kit makes it nearly impossible to even use one of the op supports due to the team building cost she forces on you. If you are struggling it’s not due to lack of support. A lot of people post things like this hoping no one fact checks them. You can clear everything still using mostly 4 stars. People do it literally every cycle and post it on KZbin. Moc also allows you to retry and get missing stars. Meaning you don’t even need to get 3 stars in one attempt. 0 cycling doesn’t matter. And none of the content is hard enough to even be worried about this. People just want to be able to brute force with their favorite teams and now make disingenuous arguments about power creep when they just didn’t build anyone other than their waifu and a few supports.

[@WarTalonX]

You should be able to clear end game content without those supports. I run a lot of dot teams for Kafka and I pretty much never run them with a harmony character unless I need their element for breaking. Even still someone like Acheron is still completely over powered if you run Ting Yun or even Asta.

[@tieAcherry101]

Or… you just don’t know how to build characters and play the game.

[@neoalt9430]

As a f2p and with my playstyle of rolling for characters I want, The release of these all-new meta-defining supports that uproots the previous version really irks me. It gives the feeling that the rolls I did for a character were wasted when I could have potentially gotten character x instead who does the same as "A" but 10x better in all fields. That's why I can find myself agreeing with your opinion on specializing supports or at least preventing them from being all-encompassing but as for the op supports already in the game, I think Hoyo would need to make such new supports even stronger than our current ones so they could give a reason as to why we should roll for them for a specific team

[@axllow3914]

This is the crux of gacha games and FOMO, players often find themselves stuck in a loop of never summoning for anything because they know it'll get powercrept later, yet they need characters to play the game. Quite the paradox.

[@isshonsaha8673]

​@@axllow3914 The solution to this is to get the units anyways and properly invest into them so they can clear content even after being powercrept. I mean you get units because you like them or you want fill the holes in your teams right? Powercreep is inevitable so it's a waste to think too much about it

[@axllow3914]

@@isshonsaha8673 I know? I said that's the problem with gacha games, not something I particularly stress out about. I summon whatever looks sexy or cool, and worry about composition later. I'm not gonna cry if I miss some stars on MoC or PF, it's just a game.

[@youravghuman5231]

​@@isshonsaha8673the only thing is powercreeping in hsr is too fast and it's just 1st year.

[@candi_appel]

"all new meta defining supports" and its literally just Ruan Mei and Robin being the actual outliers while Sparkle, Bronya, Hanya, Yukong, and Ting all have their uses

[@Silvonaut]

I believe the direction they intended for these 5 star Harmony characters to follow was to be generalist, powerful, all purpose supports so f2p's don't feel forced to pull for every single one of them, but with a defined archetype. Sparkle for Crit DPS hyper-carry. Ruan Mei for break orientated characters. Robin for high attack frequency characters (Follow Up) and this wasn't apparent to begin with as Ruan Mei was the first of her kind. But I do agree that these units have stole others market share which isn't healthy for power creep but so far is a natural progression. In 1.0 it was 4 stars and standard characters and this is a gacha company. IMO its still too early doors to definitively say whether this is outright good or bad but your absolutely right to bring this too the forefront of conversation as if Hoyo doesn't tread carefully, this could easily spiral. Good vid 👍.

[@scylla1772]

"The problem with supports--" _me, clutching tightly to my Robin posters:_ sounds like someone needs to 🎶Renew Their Definition 😤

[@xeiv1]

Funny how in my eyes ''fear of missing out'' turned in to ''fear of pulling too soon'', because the next support is going to do everything better. Bronya got Sparcle to compete, but now we have a whole team advance with Robin that is better than both, and we get new thing in the game of overlapping toughness bar, I wonder what's next...

[@YumiSumire]

The problem is, there's no going back from Ruan Mei. Sparkle and Robin has to be on par with Ruan Mei, or there's no reason to spend money on them.

[@xenoemblem7]

Do we really need justification on who to pull for? Not having Ruan Mei/Sparkle doesn't brick your account unless you have skill issue

[@YumiSumire]

@@xenoemblem7 No, but people need justification to pay money for a character. Characters who are strong are the ones making the most profit.

[@ehyzen]

@@xenoemblem7 they dont but they put ur acc on another lvl

[@LesGrosPiedsDeDeejay]

I live and die with Bronya

[@DingDong....00]

Understandable.

[@tomaliothetomato439]

I have her e6 and have been using her since literally my first day of playing.

[@O-R-I-G-I-N]

SAME bronya best girl 💔 sparkle who?

[@hannatheoneandonly]

The time is now! Fight with me.

[@marinhaalternativa3829]

Lend me your strength

[@buttermanaws4693]

If I had to find a problem it would be that a lot of support units focus on basic elements of the game, this essential means that depending on your support you can basically ignore one aspect of the game From skill point management, break effect and weakness, energy management and a few more This also means that if they want to make another support that fills that role they have a direct competitor that if they are just worse than then why get them

[@Jardrin]

I also feel they really need to slow down the 5* releases. 2 per patch is really going to hurt them in the long run once they reach a point they end up having near identical kits due to limitations of the game's mechanics. and like you said, they'll just end up direct competitors.

[@amandaslough125]

​@@JardrinI wonder if they're trying to give an early game burst of characters, so they can have people fill out their roster with more options, and then they can slow down to a healthier pace. Otherwise, the game is following the trap too many gatchas go. Which is inherently a large reason I prefer the open world sibling for choosing to go for a slow burn.

[@francescoettwedda-1875]

​@@Jardrintrue i Hope they re gonna start slow down the realese of new characters

[@anristellariza9036]

From the perspective of a long time (and frankly kinda tryhard) HSR player, hearing Pela be considered a 'specific' support is WILD. Outside of that, everything is basically on point. Pela's value is quite absurd. 40% Def Ignore on AOE, extremely fast ult building (2Turn ults are bonkers), perfect unit for Luka Cone, with really good synergies with Wind 4p and Sprightly Vonwacq's...she's basically the definition of absurd. Pela's existence is single handedly the reason SW was kicked out into the niche zone. I'd like to hear your thoughts on why she's considered more specific, because she's among the first couple of universal units that theory crafters reach for while making a new composition.

[@DobinSergei]

-40% is not equal to +40%dmg, only ~20..23%. And besides that she can offer nothing. Spending one of two party slots of support characters, for such poor performance... Is quite a waste?

[@gameb9oy]

I think the real problem is that for a lot of teams you only will want to have one but it’s tricky to figure out which teams they are best for when they are good on most of them

[@fathurrachman9498]

Its slot efficient crisis for most of problem with team building. But premium harmony still cover their niche like sparkle is good into daniel and QQ for their skill point intensive playstyle. Standar harmony like bronya still work for any crit damage based carry very well like acheron so its not really problem to have more support having same niche too. And next patch will be break dps who really need ruan mei and HTB to excel with so freeing up more support slot for some team.

[@sfzndo]

huh? a lot of teams want two harmony (or general damage amplifiers like Pela) not just one

[@axllow3914]

​@@fathurrachman9498 I didn't know people called DHIL Daniel, that's hilarious lmao

[@bisky9105]

Most teams are 2 support, no? (Kinda depends what you see as supports too)

[@Assassin21BEKA]

How is it hard lol!?!?! Just read what characters do and it is obvious what team will get the most benefit from them. Its not hard at all.

[@TheUnknownCruX]

As a husbando only player: What are supports?

[@Savasvania]

I think it is like a bra.

[@hdhlhg]

Gallagher and Gepard's backs must be tired 💀

[@TheUnknownCruX]

@@hdhlhg Mostly Luocha and for the longest time Gepard but since their release Aventurine and Gallagher

[@roadjcat]

Right! The game really hates male quantum and harmony characters, and female imaginary characters (congratulations to Yukong haha). There's the male trailblazer for harmony I guess.

[@bribriibribrii]

I only use waifus 💀

[@J3nnySmith]

Yeah, Ruan mei never leaves my party after i got her. But on the other hand hoyo attempted to fix the problem with Acheron for example. Before E2 she only works with nihility teammates. But i also seen stats that Acheron has one of the higest average eidolons , so whoever pulled her, likely tried to get to E2.

[@MrGoodra17]

E0 Acheron+ 1 nhility+ Sparkle is as powerful as 2 Nihility

[@thornszk]

I'd rather bring 2 nihility so I can trigger the current MOC turbulence faster.

[@Miss_ESL]

I have Acheron at E1 an I use her with Mei, Swan, and Kafka. Mei+Acheron is nuts for break damage

[@ckoejake9966]

My friend and I always said that instead of there being DPS power creep it has been Harmony power creep

[@mhbarney8499]

Yeah the powercreep and fact that we always get 2 new units each patch is unhealthy in the long run.

[@DavidWoodMusic]

This 100%.

[@curryfishheadenjoyer]

I think at some point they might slow down to 1 unit a patch (similar to genshin) but I agree

[@soulfulhuman8724]

They should definitely release just 1 each patch but they do not do that so that f2p will start collecting jades and start pulling every banner. 2 character per phase makes company get money since OUt of fomo Or both units being too good, little dedicated players and content creators spend money.

[@Prahalad3362]

One thing I have realised about prioritising supports over DPSes, Generally picking every support makes your fights quite boring. As far as I see it, battle variety is mostly facilitated by the DPS, and just gathering meta supports makes it quite stale for me.

[@lberghaus]

I don’t play with supports most of the time. I have Bronya but she only makes the cut when the rest of the party and enemies align well. I usually build teams of 3 DPS and a sustain.

[@arondyte318]

Welcome to Honkai Support Rail - Where you end up just rolling for supports because DPS units gets thrown out and replaced every patch anyway 😂

[@kennethyoung7457]

The supports get thrown out every patch as well though how are you going to fit Robin into your team if you don't replace another support. People already doomposting Luocha because he has been "replaced" by new sustains. They come out with so many characters that your team can change every patch.

[@arondyte318]

@@kennethyoung7457 Now you can call it Honkai Powercreep Rail then - where you end up rolling for no one at all because the next one is “definitely better” than the one you were supposed to roll for. HSR staying true to the powercreeping roots of its predecessor 💪

[@highwaytoheaven99]

its hard to say "supports are more important than DPS" in HSR because, unlike Genshin where any DPS unit can brute force through everything in the game short of elemental immunities, no amount of Sparkle, Ruan Mei or Robin buffs will help you full star MOC if you don't have a DPS unit that match the enemies' weakness. Thats why when people say "HSR is more f2p friendly than Genshin" it grinds my gears, because its not at all. In Genshin after you get 2 limited DPS units, you're set for life. All you need is, say, 1 Neuvilette and 1 Alhaitham, and you pretty much kill everything in the Abyss forever. Meanwhile in HSR you got Jingliu and Dan Heng IL? Great, thats 2 types of enemy weaknesses you can cover, so... what about the other 5? Oh, and what about Pure Fiction? Jingliu and DHIL are great on MOC, but they're useless on PF, what about it then? You pretty much need 1 DPS for each type of weakness AND each different endgame. Forget power creep, why is no one talking about this??

[@mormegil84]

Exactly right. And with the new endgame mode coming, you're going to need strong Hunt characters.

[@shauryamehrotra5753]

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. The best team in the game currently is DOT (based on usage for PF and MOC) which is pretty much universal. Furthermore the game is moving towards less focus on elements with Boothill, Firefly and Acheron all having mechanics that ignore weaknesses. I do agree with you though that Genshin is much easier to clear and the only reason to pull for more characters in it is to help elemental reactions but it absolutely isn’t necessary, whereas in HSR, drafting is way more important.

[@ruen_me1361]

ive actually noticed a pattern with boss/elites tho they all have either wind,phys, or qua weakness bc the BE of those is best against bosses the ONLY exception is a new boss that is not gonna be in MOC that focuses on breaking but u dont proc the BE just the break dmg bc it has multiple bars and you cant actually get the BE easily, so most content you build Herta for Sim Uni/PF and the a wind/phys/qua dps for bosses and you can honestly ignore the other elements 99% of the time but if you dont like Herta or need a 2nd for PF Lighting characters are also good mobbers generally, saying this as a FTP that clears endgame content. Plus honestly building a new unit especially the 4*s is REALLY cheap in HSR, sustain wise u need 3 archetypes heal, shield, aoe cleanse (or swap aoe cleanse w/ taunt) and lynx can be two of those and the shield can be replaced with bailu if u dont get one. Plus as a day one player there’s not much other than building new characters for variety to get stronger and to counter enemies and just swapping relics and LC around

[@SyrFlora]

For me personally, luck issues and fomo is more on star rail side. U need quite an amount of units to able beat end game content. Of course u can do moc 36* clear with free unit, with eidolon for sure. Thou u requirements is insane relic.. hanya 180+ speed, tingyun, pela 160+ speed. Also good RNG run. Thou u also need to consider pure fiction.. i dont think pure f2p unit can beat it.. thou herta himeko is insane pair, should be easy if u got both of them. Beating end game content is quite a grind (time) and need patience. Thou u can minimize the relic issues if u lucky with unit😜

[@SyrFlora]

Also light cone on star rail just predatory. Missing signature on some unit hinder performance quite by a margin. Most of them so inflexible.. 😂. Making it even worse.. thou genshin also start to nerf some cosmetic on transformation like archelino. But weapon there pretty much universal.

[@nyanpasu4060]

My thoughts are there's a large portion of the playerbase (myself included) who find themselves dedicated to using an older non-meta unit for everything, because they love that character too much to pull them out. For me, I use Hook for everything and as a result I don't pull on new DPS units and after getting my first really good sustain I don't go for more sustains either. As a player I only look for units that will make my favorite shine brighter and if what I spend on a support can make my favorite deal as much damage as what I'd spend to get a new DPS I'll make a jump on that. The same goes if your outdated favorite is a support or sustain. If your favorite is Bailu the best way to counteract her comparatively weaker heals is grab a new universal support that clears enemies faster before they can out-damage her healing. If your favorite is Asta you can always run a second support that stacks nicely with her buffs or fills in any gaps she can't cover. Would your team do much better if you cut Hook/Bailu/Asta for someone better? Yes, but what matters to these players is if a new character makes their old character still feel viable on their team and that's something new DPS's and new sustains can't offer to the same extent as new supports. I know some people will complain that if you want to "main" someone play Genshin Impact, but I find that completely discounts the amount of story and appeal factor that goes into to making Star Rail characters. If I'm not supposed to main a Star Rail character, then why did the devs make them such a touching story mission that made me so attached to them in the first place? Hoyoverse knows these kinds of players play this game, and so they also want to cater to them as well by making these supports, I think. The real question is, is there a better way to cater to these players without disrupting the meta?

[@Yawar25]

I don't know. Just play with Hook or Asta, or every character you want to main in the Simulated Universe and have fun. Don't worry, they don't give too much jades on the Forgotten Hall or Pure Fiction anyways. If you can't clear that content with your favorites, it's okay

[@Mr.Heller]

The better way is to spread out new character releases, because 2 every patch is too much.

[@Mae-gp3zh]

I completely agree with you, I thought your comment was very thoughtful as someone who is this kind of player. Yes, I do try my best to have somewhat of a good team by meta standards, but if I had the choice I would much rather have my new unit hold up my favorite than a new meta character I don’t care much for.

[@julestennisuniverse]

Great comment 👍👏

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

I’m just really bugged by how much possibility space Harmony has, and instead is taking a creeping take for a direct “damage goes up” approach. Like why not a harmony that plays with element and enhances an ally for breaking any element toughness? Or that add spice to bounce attacks? Or support that plays with SP or aggro? Or a harmony that enhances EHR or allows new actions beyond basic and skill for allies? There are so many niches to play with and this game releases so quickly, that I worry about longevity and newcomer friendliness. Characters being hot or having amazing stories will have us pulling naturally.

[@grenaja]

HSR's meta is about just dealing as much as damage as possible as quickly as possible. As a result, I feel like all their units are locked into a "focus on damage", and that's why we'll rarely get any unique supports, like a defensive Harmony, or ones that you mentioned. Ig that's the result of being gacha. Though I will say, the upcoming Harmony TB is looking really good AND has a unique, creative concept, and will probably be viable even without the dozen other buffs already offered by other supports

[@nehuenconde7139]

I mean, ruan mei kinda buffs break attacks, about SP we got Sparkle and Hanya

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

@@grenaja even for the idea of defensive and damage I still think they can play with, like adding a flat bonus to their attacks by a pinch of the target’s defense or shield like the Quake effect in SU, or allowing overheal to add to some other property like break efficiency, max hp, energy regen, etc. But yeah harmony TB looks like a fun time exploring more design space to spice up break

[@tsumugishirogane2300]

there are already harmony characters who plays with sp and plenty of non harmony support characters with aggro control, bounce attacks are barely used by strong characters and would be really a waster for a character, also the new harmony (robin) gameplay is so unique that I find kinda stupid to complain about supports barely 1 year in an unfinished game

[@forwenein2669]

tbh, Ruan Mei plays with breaking toughness among her myriad other buffs, Jade might be interesting with bounces depending on how exactly the interaction works, Sparkle(and Hanya, albeit in a weaker way) interacts with SP generation. They are trying to find new niches for new Harmony characters, the issue is that they went off the other end compared to Genshin. while Genshin niche supports might be strong(often only at high constellations) like Sara for Electro teams or Gorou for Geo teams, you can still safely replace them with Bennet, Xiangling, Xinqiu, Fischl etc and still be perfectly viable and at good power level, the HSR niche supports not only help their niche but also completely outclass the general supports. Why use Bronya that's SP negative and offers mostly single-target buffs, when you can use Sparkle that'll completely fix your SP issues while buffing everyone, or Ruan Mei that's SP positive, buffs everyone, and also makes breaking easier & prolongs Weakness Broken state?

[@pixelswave6452]

Hey btw the healer picture you used with fire emblem characters that healer is actually THE ONE VERSION OF SAKURA THAT CANT HEAL

[@reireiryuuji]

I've always pulled for preference over gameplay so I'll probably never get a limited 5 star harmony if they continue putting em on characters I don't care about lmao. Luckily I'm getting harmony Caelus soon.

[@Fr00stee]

I think this happened because 4* harmony units were already really strong and easy to get, so they had to go crazy with the 5*s to give people a reason to pull for them

[@HawaiianPizzaEnjoyer]

Support metas? I've seen this before... *coughs* *Waiver, Merlin, Scathach Skadi, Castoria, Morgan, Oberon*

[@diego6991]

Morgan support ? 🤔

[@thornszk]

motherly support

[@averagecommander]

There's also Miss Crane, Lady Avalon, Summer Chloe, Summer Skadi.

[@Eflaene]

Ruan Mei's Spd Boost is the only reason I'm able to run Blade at 126 (135) Spd and Bronya at 125 (134) without having to hunt down for Spd susbtats, even if that team gets a way better support down the line (outside of Bronya E2) I'm not sure I'll replace them unless they bring something essential. I kinda agree, 5* Harmony units have a bit too many advantages over the other niche ones.

[@kritzum]

Robin cute, but we got a whole powerranger next patch

[@tonyinfinite5174]

Shame I think she would've done better if they were released separately apart

[@danielyakam2437]

I've been hearing that hoyo has been throwing off their entire release schedule to throw off leakers.

[@soulfulhuman8724]

True. My only concern is FF overshadowing Boothill. He is such a good character but Drip marketing for FF and he being hunt unit reduced his value. In every section, all I saw is people prioritizing FF over him. Robin got pulled bcz of she being Fua support but this isnt case for him

[@siumei6931]

One thing I feel is good about universal supports for endgame is that it can help F2P player or casual players get through harder content without having to whale on certain characters and focus on getting universal supports to make up for not getting the meta DPS’s like Acheron or DanIL

[@lolaandjoe123]

The cooking analogy was so baffling in concept and confused in execution that I think it actually hindered my understanding of the topic and as a result this entertaining video has made me unlearn things I knew before. 10/10 will watch again

[@eduardogc1404]

I feel like they are doing somewhat the same with dps. I mean the elemental weaknesses based on how acherons ultimate ignores those weaknesses and also (leaks ahead) how firefly just puts fire weakness on enemies. Boothill does the same now that I think about it so, what's the point of elements then?

[@FormerEmiliaBestWifi]

The problem is that Firefly is coming next patch and I have to skip Robin to E2S1 our best girl :smiling_face_with_tear:

[@NothingMeansNothingButNothing]

:smiling_face_with_tear:

[@ibrahim5463]

Ok but hear me out Get both

[@LongDeadArtist]

@@ibrahim5463 broke

[@lbomb1121]

@@ibrahim5463ok but hear me out free to play

[@cinder3la999]

SAME. I don't like robin tho so I'm not loosing much

[@gerbian8629]

I'm confused about your point about whether or not the powercreep is intentional. You say if it is, then "all the power to them" but if not "then it's detrimental to character variety". I feel like most players would want to have an accessible power 5 than to constantly be pressured to pull for better and better characters.

[@dai7v7]

Ayoo I'm here to say I love Robin and all but I'm skipping till firefly, waifu>meta, specially when waifu is also a ducking mecha

[@davestew5135]

Mecha over Meta 😏

[@zerovking7629]

I mean she’s obviously gonna be meta too and seeing the numbers break units casually be outputting every turn she’ll probably be stronger and more consistent then acheron

[@dai7v7]

@@zerovking7629 Is her kit already out?

[@xenoemblem7]

@@dai7v7 Yea but don't take it to heart since betas exist

[@dragonkyuu]

@@zerovking7629 I really hope so but I still doubt she'd be on acheron lvl, they boosted acherons numbers past the games entire universe tbh Im hoping for lingliu/ blade hypercarry numbers which will still be very consistent for the general meta her passive abilities (kit spoilers: def ignore and resistance shred baked into almost every skill) make her very appealing though and Im going to be incredibly happy if they use both sam/firefly in combat

[@charjohn2468]

At this point I just gatta stick to vertical investment. This whole patch is going to be hell

[@mormegil84]

That's what I do. E1S1 Jingliu, E1S1 Kafka, and E2S1 Acheron have been covering my bases so far. Definitely could've had more characters, but I like making my favorite dps stronger.

[@pitagor2]

My big problem is when DPS units are basically tied to the hip of specific supports. People telling me oh X character is garbage without Ruan Mei or why even play Y character without Ruan Mei and as someone that hates Ruan Mei it just means that there's less DPS units I wanna pull for despite liking their designs

[@ДавидФедосеенко]

Turn based gameplay do not exclude playstyles, different builds and unexpected combinations somehow working. It is all up to the developers how to balance their characters, which possibilities to give them at what cost. And which challanges give to the players with how many possible solutions. In HSR characters, relics and gamemodes are quite straightforward mostly giving only one/two possible and the most effective ways to do them. And as I can see it is all absolutely intendent

[@s0hlless]

the real issue is people need to learn what good relics are. what stats you need and what substats you need.

[@MyriadCelestia]

Supports getting universal is, in my opinion, a good thing, as you can now just rest easy if you have a few of them instead of needing like you should pull all of them. You can get away with pulling for fewer characters, and this saves more for DPS and tanks.

[@Ghalion666]

I commented but youtube auto-deleted it seems. But I'm re-commenting because that was before I finished the story and got another harmony via the MC. Honestly, it's not even about OP characters, it's just harmony. Hoyo made us wait so long for a harmony after yukong, who doesn't even count because literally nobody thinks she holds a candle to bronya or tingyun. It's hard to compare her to even Asta, so she doesn't even count. They made us wait and wait SEVEN versions until our FIRST legit harmony 5*. Then they give us effing FOUR in 3 patches! The heck hoyo?!

[@ulrikruby]

7:02 Wow, the first limited Harmony character is stronger than the non limited ones. Who could have seen that coming?

[@tieAcherry101]

This guy is just fomo materialised.

[@lennonjohndancel9330]

I'm investing in Mono Quantum, I like a team that I can put anywhere regardless the enemy weakness it's very good for me atleast (f2p)

[@CuriusGorg]

What’s really upsetting is how during genshin’s 2.2 there was little to no power creep, but in honkai’s 2.2 it’s almost as if the previous characters don’t exist. I can’t tell if they’re trying to catch up with genshin on a power level or if they’re purposefully trying to make previous characters who used to be at the top of the meta, feel like dogshit to play.

[@leecole7266]

turn based games have a lower ceiling for power creep since like you were saying, there’s less factors that nescessitate different play styles. Hu tao power crept diluc, but yoimiya and lyney didn’t DIRECTLY power creep hu tao by having their own place in the meta (Normal attack/mono pyro). My main concern for star rail is that we’re gonna see a much greater power creep in a shorter amount of time since the only way to carve out a niche is “make number go higher”

[@rafi...___]

fortunately after robin,the next support just there to help a niche. jade,although she is an erudition class,she is a support for hp drain dps(just arlan and blade). granting a buff that drain the hp if the buffed character is not herself. so pls hoyo,keep doing things like this. keep making support with niche aplication

[@kcamui__]

she's not purely a support for hp drain as she just drains the hp of whoever is the debt collector (unless it's her which then the spd and hp drain then cancels out) when they attack but Blade indeed would like to have her for faster FuA for him while still being viable for any other units that can have high AoE or frequent attacks (FuA)

[@usscolumbia6149]

I think this video makes a lot of sense. My hope is that we get at most 1 new Harmony character in the future with a focus on DoT. That would give us a harmony for each of the main dps setups Hypercary, DoT, FuA, Break. Then we can start focusing more on dps, sustains and debuffers to make more complex team comps.

[@callmeandoru2627]

I think it actually comes from the oversimplified combat system of stair rail. The system itself is so barebone that pretty much all nooks and crannies have already been touched. Unlike Genshin, much of Star Rail's combat by this point is solved, and the only way to make new characters stand out is to power-creep the existing characters.

[@elfawne]

Agree. I hate that they only have 2 skills to begin with, and the weakness break thing with elements is outdated, it seems lazy. If they only implemented weakness break it's fine but we also have too many elements to match to, in a gacha game with low pull rates. The game is too simple and they had to deal with it by adding variations with niches which other 5 stars characters outside that niche cannot do, making the end game content too focused on the characters you have, bc most characters only do one specified thing.

[@JGDGkot]

At the end of the day, 5* Harmony always having good value is a design decision (it doesn't even have to be intentional), you might like or dislike depending on your preferences. And as long as the "universal value" between them is balanced it should be fine long term, as what make the best choice the best is the value in circumstances, not the universal one. Of course it naturally means that early 4-star Harmony are less likely to appear, but every other path had a similar thing happen, and expecting Harmony to be different is kinda weird. I personally wish that Harmony characters were weaker overall, so there are more circumstances were using 2nd damage dealer was a better choice, but that is my personal preference, influenced by how I like to play the game (which is why Nihility is my favorite gameplay path). Also I personally tend to use "weaker" characters quite often, because I prefer the playstyle.

[@danha3107]

Sparkle was so insanely overloaded oml. She already had a strong niche with her SP centric buffs, but the turn advance and maybe free crit was just unnecessary

[@Flaggerz]

Funny how there is not a single male Harmony, hopefully Sunday will be

[@danielferrieri7434]

They Harmonize their allies and not the enemies

[@brycecai4700]

I kind of hope supports be more diverse and niche, instead of 3 of them being attack buff+damage buff+crit damage buff+advancing action

[@sakutaro3musik486]

i agree i like to have to choose and make the right choices and have more viable supports, powercreeping suppports means that enemys will get harder and 4 stars will become useless

[@dominickroberts4653]

Robin should say 'TRAILBLAZER GO' when she joins a team with the trailblazer

[@DJ_RH]

I usually edge to your videos but this one made explode instantly 😅

[@VarsII]

LOL THESE AUTO RESPONSE CHOICES: i.imgur.com/dGHsrXu.png

[@yokuutsu9097]

WHAT

[@O-R-I-G-I-N]

huh 😨😃

[@JeSt4m]

The rule for turn based gacha RPG is that Support is that support is the most important and usually most broken unit in game.

[@utsubyo]

first of all those characters despite being "universally good" still have their nishes, go outside of that nishe and they get outperformed and start becoming kinda cope, if you want to use sparkle in dot team then have fun i guess but pela is a better choice at that point, robin might end up being horrendous for teams where you have two SP hungry characters or characters with slower builds, same goes for bronya who's not great for teams with followups and is considered SP hungry, SW is nishe by design, ruan mei is the most universal out of all of those but to make the best use of her ideally you want a duo dps comps, when it comes to buffing a single character there are better options like tingyun, bronya or sparkle, every support has a specific use case and falls off tremendously when outside of that robin is not necessairly the ideal choice for speedruning, her ult is very expensive so you either have to beat first wave without it or somehow get it twice, SP might also be an issue in some teams, tingyun is probably the best one for that because of her ability to ult immiedeatly, be SP positive and having no issues ulting twice when going for 0 cycle

[@spyrothetimelord]

When I noticed the Nier music *clutching chest* Feeling like they probably want to do basic all rounder supports early on (and need to make limited characters competitive with each other so parts of their kits are similar) but will likely become more niche as time goes on (this happened with genshin characters too). It's like how no new healer will be "worth it" without a cleanse (re people talking about Gallagher sans his eidolon). But making that a base part of his kit just makes him seem like a carbon copy of others. It's definitely something I imagine won't be like this once they get the first few out of the way. But honestly those other characters are still insane so I'm not really sure it matters in the long term. Some people will still use them, and have preferred playstyles, or challenge accounts, etc. Genshin was too afraid of powercreep and people complained. Now their new game has a sense of powercreep and people also are not happy. It's tough to balance but I feel like having more great options to choose from will be better in the long run than fewer, especially when (again, just my assumption) as time goes on they'll likely release more straight up niche supports. When that time comes, videos will be about how this pay to win character is not flexible and can't be used with the top dps units of that time, etc. It's never ending

[@kucingrebahan1630]

In FGO, the first year of Oberon and Koyanskayas' arrival creates a HUGE SPIKE in event and main story challenges. I hope that's not the case with star rail, cuz damn... This train is so fast...

[@therranolleo468]

FGO still adhires to the QBA meta and each of them stay in their respective lanes (except for Oberon cause his skill 3 is just stupid) plus FGO mechanics are old and unrefined and are nowhere near as complex as HSR with speed management, ultimate timing, etc. in FGO u get 3 actions per turn (4 if u Brave Chain) and that's pretty much it. but yeah FGO has reached the problem where their meta support just supplents other supports from their own type if they don't adhire to the gameplay of their respective card types, St.Joan and Constantine are 2 examples which comes to mind of recent "supports" that just flops compared to Castoria and Koyan

[@lelolelo5441]

I doubt they'd do anything like that for events and main story. Maybe for MOC and pure fiction and stuff tho

[@nicktheodore837]

⁠​⁠@@therranolleo468 but isn’t that what we want tho? Are they flops, probably, but FGO is pretty good about having dedicated challenge mode content, it’s not twelve seconds after a servant comes out that Plushie or some good has uploaded a shenanigans video of them soloing a Challenge quest or Kiara. For HSR won’t we want more of that? More of wacky niche units who enable different styles of play, FGO doesn’t have auto, so hyper efficient picks do pay dividends on that front, meanwhile in HSR tho I’m finding most of my enjoyment is taking a character I just threw some mats at and yeeting them into the simulated universe to see what blessings are fun on them

[@Prahalad3362]

No way you mention Oberon before mentioning the literal strongest unit in the game Castoria. She is the single reason arts is heads above both other card types.

[@codyhax0995]

​@@therranolleo468 To be fair, the reason why they flopped wasn't because they didn't fit into the team's archetypes, it was because they just didn't do enough to justify being ran over the current best supports people were already using. They just did too little and thus nobody used them. Another example of this is how Jeanne basically became obsolete for a long long while when Castoria came out, because Castoria just did Jeanne's job better, while also providing a bunch of other unique benefits that Jeanne could not dream to be able to give. FGO's endgame has evolved to the point where supports need to be focused and powerful enough to justify their inclusion on teams and if they aren't...Nobody will even think of using them.

[@nezarbgr6551]

I honestly like it this way I've always seen powercreep as more of a good thing then a bad one with the condition that the game evolves accordingly (harder content and what not) cus that reasure the player base that there will always be a next step you can look forward to that will be worth it. for exemple, I missed Ruan mei back in 1.6 (curse you yanqing E2) and now in 2.2 Robin will be available a support equal if not stronger than ruan mei so my account won't stay without a premier AoE buffer waiting for ruan mei and her rerun

[@sdgre]

Its normal powercreep things that happens in any normal gacha game. Don't worry, these harmony supports will also get powercrept in the 3.x versions

[@kmh4076]

Yeah HSR shows faster powercreep rates than its predecessor GI and HI3 😅

[@Eternity116]

​@@kmh4076 True, hit the nose on that one, but tbpf GI doesn't really have the incentives for power creeping at the moment... or ever, in comparison to Honkai Impact or Star Rail.

[@aaronhaefner6302]

Soooooooo since I have Sparkle, her light cone, and Ruan Mei…. I can skip robin?

[@SirLexion]

As a f2p myself I’ve only pulled for two characters and both their light cones being Argenti and Aventurine. The only harmony I use are Yukong, Tingyun, Bronya, and Hanya with Pela for support also. I know what I’m missing out on for the limited 5 star harmony’s but I’ve felt no strong need for them simply because I don’t like those characters and I enjoy the aforementioned characters more.

[@LPSDesires]

I think HSR should take a look at onmyoji kits (a turn based game that’s heavy on meta) for new ideas.

[@dustinabigan2776]

Long run if this continues, it's going to get to a point where probably Ruan Mei, Robin, and Sparkle end up getting surpassed by someone else themselves. Feels like the only way it can be mitigated would be if they still have buffs like that (but aren't as high) in future units but instead it's only to specific situations like DoT, FuA, Ultimate, etc. It's going to drift close to the SU-related Paths stuff and it's likely going to be seen as too niche but that could at least buy time for all this to be swept under the rug (more or less). Though I'm curious to see if this (just going to higher figures like Robin, Sparkle, and Ruan Mei) could end up getting to a point where players actively call out Hoyoverse for this and them being forced to make changes because of it since it would pretty obvious just giving characters higher damage figures in things like crit dmg boost, spd boost, break efficiency, etc. will just be a never ending arms race. The barrier for this, of course, is that there would be players who would be generally indifferent to this if they already have the most powerful supports. It's unlikely Hoyoverse retroactively changes how released units work unless it's a massive issue such as with Zhongli, so chances are any changes that would be made would only show in future units.

[@kennethyoung7457]

I mean Genshin and Honkai Impact 3rd made more niche buffers as time went on even requiring you to have certain characters on the team like Kiana, Mei and Bronya to maximize dmg. Star Rail will go the same way and no they won't be called out for it that is par for the course in gacha games that units get more specialized kits as time goes on. If anything we already got a taste of that with Topaz her debuff only work on followup attack dmg and only on a single target that is really niche playstyle that is not that good in most teams in the game over regular harmony supports.

[@dustinabigan2776]

@@kennethyoung7457 What I meant in being called out is that they just keep on releasing more supports like Robin, Ruan Mei, and Sparkle that just go back to bigger numbers as a kit hallmark, not the niche ones. Honestly I'd prefer the more niche units than the generalist ones because you actually have to give more thought into how to use them outside of just oonga boonga.

[@merusotajio2222]

I have a very evident problem is that I skipped too many supports for dps (skipped silver wolf for Argenti , skipped sparkle for Acheron , lost my 50/50 on Ruan Mei ) so now I skipped all of the dps in this patch to get Robin 🎉🎉🎉 but I got her mainly because I am a Herta main and Robin is her best support

[@sct77]

Bronya should have been added to the list of op supports, the only reason she "fell off" is because the newer dps units don't synergize well with her, not because of powercreep. She will be Boothill's best support and maybe even Firefly's. Each support has their niche and whether they're meta (not the same as op or strong) or not depends on the current top dps units, which is why Pela and Silver Wolf are the top supports in Prydwen's MoC data.

[@robimpo]

I always think of the game like like this, you need TWO teams to complete most content. Supports and sustains can be used in pretty much ANY content while DPS are usually specialized to SPECIFIC content(POF, MOC, SIM, etc). So i build 4 supports and 2 sustains, then go for DPS based on what content i'm stuggling in.

[@somelove9872]

My problem with HSR is that i am pulling for characters i like (basically all male characters) and there is no support male characters meaning i have no 5* supports, no RanMei, Spark, etc And this is getting ridiculous, i can’t full star the local abyss and this is with heavy invested dps. Sometimes i have 2 dps cause i have no other support other than Tengyun and Bronya and they all on other team This is killing my interest in HSR Unlike genshin HSR has only battles to be interested in a game and characters. When i got all the characters i like but can’t really win with them i just have nothing to do 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@mxzephyr]

I actually have the same problem pulling for only male characters LOL. in genshin there are a lot more 4* supports that are much better, so I can get away with doing it there, but not in star rail

[@somelove9872]

@@mxzephyr right? And it’s not like i dislike female characters its just good majority of them are uninteresting to me or interesting but has boring (for me) designs. The biggest offence to me was RunMei she single handedly almost made me quit the game cause of her boring ass quest and event. If not for the cute cats i was ready to leave and never come back. And her being busted unit made me appreciate genshin more for their even number of supports and dps among cast members

[@curryfishheadenjoyer]

​@@somelove9872ah I remember back in the day when people were saying that all of the meta dpses were the women, flash forward to today neuvilette and alhaitham are among the best dpses in the game (and others have been massively buffed, eg diluc). I agree with you, the great thing about genshin is how there so many ways to make a good team, compared to hsr. then again, time will tell

[@somelove9872]

@@curryfishheadenjoyer and wonderful thing about genshin that i learn to appreciate is that old units like ayaka, hutao and ganyu are still variable, and new male units like neuvi, wrio and haitam don’t make them suddenly useless or unusable in any means (unless there’re elements immune enemies but they are few and far between), some of them can be put together if you want to Same with supports like nahida, furina, sucrose, xianling, will work fine with or separate with the likes of zhongli, kazuha, Bennett, xinque, etc Meanwhile it’s been a year since i am with no male supports in HSR, thus i can’t beat the local abyss and its not like its my fault, I just don’t like these OP/busted supports :c

[@minako-chan1420]

Now, we wait for that one 5* Harmony unit who is a direct upgrade of Tingyun. Someone who will break the meta and give teamwide 70%-100% energy replenishment hahahaha.

[@a-passerby]

I don't know who to pull, like....every single character is so damn good!! I tried my best on Aventurine, but he never came home, Robin could be a good support, but i don't play much FuA teams, likewise with Topaz...( only built Ratio yet...) Boothill looks fun, but my only preservation character is my E3 Gepard! But if i pull for FuXuan...Firefly, Jade and probably Argenti will all come in 2.3!! 😢 So difficult to choose....

[@tsumugishirogane2300]

I mean depends on what you need, if you need a sustain going for fu xuan is absolutely good, if you need a dps a lot are coming (firefly, jade, boothill), if you desperatly need a support Asta is a pretty general sup who is still consistent in end game (from SS tier early game to A tier late game) and if your team is pretty sp positive robin works too (so no qq or IL dan heng) orrr you can level up trailblazer since they're gonna get a free harmony version next patch that supports break effects teams (and will be an amazing support for boothill if you pull him) and is apperatly pretty broken since it will introduce a mechanic called hyper break

[@a-passerby]

@@tsumugishirogane2300 I know..... But it's like, in my mind, I want all of em! 😅 But realistically, I want ones that hopefully gonna help me more.... The thing with dps is, powercreep gets more and more prevalent as every patch comes out.... I think....I'll ask ur opinion on this... I have Ruan Mei well built, my only FuA character built is Ratio ( I have E6 Herta and Himeko, can't remember who else is FuA type character that's not limited 5*...)....Should I go for Robin? Or save for Fu Xuan? (2.3 is a later issue, My other teams are main dps DHIL ( No Sparkle so Bronya ), Acheron, Jingliu, and Jingyuan, and Kafka-Black swan DoT team....(will build HMC and Gallagher anyways since I think those two are really good together with Ruan Mei, don't remember who the 4th spot was...)

[@tsumugishirogane2300]

@@a-passerby well for starters I suggest putting ruan mei with DHIL because both him and bronya are sp negative while RM is sp positive, if you wanna go for robin I'd suggest doing that only if you plan to build a fua team in the future (which would prob mean to also save for topaz), realistically you would need 2 built teams for all the game content, so without taking into account your dot team (wich is still good but I'm just gonna suggest two others whole teams for the purpose of deciding who to pull) would probably suggest a Team with DHIL dps, ruan mei support, myabe tingyun (she is also sp positive), and a sustain (lynx could be good since she is free), while for second team, bronya and HMC support, gallagher sustain and pull for boothill dps since bronya and HMC are among his best supports and not only are you gonna be able to make use of bronya more efficiently since she got powercrept because she works really well with boothill, but also because since he's new it's gonna take a while for him to be powercrept enough to become borderline unuseable

[@a-passerby]

@@tsumugishirogane2300 Thx for ur advice! Lemme see how many 50/50 I can win now onwards! Good luck on ur pulls too!!

[@Laserstormelpies]

As F2P I don't care about any of that. I just decide which of the next releasing characters I like most and prepare by saving up and skipping the ones I like less. I liked black swan so I pulled for her. I liked Gallagher so I pulled for him and accidentally also got a Welt copy, a Luocha, and an Acheron. Now there are no upcoming characters I like enough to pull for them, so I can wait and build up a lot of warps again

[@magicalgirlmyou8560]

I kinda hate how much power creep there is in hsr,which leads to either impossible to clear late-game content,or to more powercreep

[@tsumugishirogane2300]

it's called being a gacha game honestly lmao

[@magicalgirlmyou8560]

@@tsumugishirogane2300 If they wanna kill their game,the yes,otehrwise no. because they still want people to pull for new unit,which players wont if these units are useless 2 updates later

[@АрсенСаркисян-й9у]

​@magicalgirlmyou8560 but u still could clear without them

[@АрсенСаркисян-й9у]

​@@magicalgirlmyou8560even 4 star harmony is stong

[@coreo6688]

Nah, I agree with you in a way and I do not want to be a shill BUT in reality it's mostly relic issue for MoC, 100% NOT your fault even if you listen to the best player and go farm the exact things he says you need to, you could get fucked on relics for weeks. It's the way the game is made unfortunately. FOR PURE FICTION HOWEVER I do agree , I do not care personally unless it's something I can do on the spot for extra jades because I have a character coming up that I REALLY WANT. My thought process when picking characters and therefore the modes they perform in is: Pick a favourite and then I just go ham on them, new character comes out? does it buff my favourite or is it my new favourite? no? skip. otherwise , pull. Out gacha the gacha and become a bandit OR become a static, there is no other choice.

[@OtterPirate]

It's also crazy to me that 3/5 5 star harmonies give us action forward. I would love to see more diversity in the space

[@immortalwolf1909]

I don't even play HSR anymore and I still religiously watch these

[@revdrianinvian1841]

It's a universally consumable videos. A good one at that too. I do that with Yugioh. I haven't caught up with the anime since Rush season 1 and I REALLY don't want to play the game but I still watch TGS Anime and The Duel Logs whenever they upload stuffs.

[@illidanST7F]

And according to ''dreams'', we will soon get a specialized debuff character that is basically 5* Pela, made for Acheron

[@Kro-RissaVirus]

The problem with HSR limited banner Harmony characters is that *Checks notes* they’re all incredibly strong and universally powerful regardless of what units your account has. Wow what a uhhh problem lol. This is literally a good thing, with all the various endgame modes already in the game and more inbound you already need to pull so many DPS & Support characters to be able to complete all the content. Harmony being the one path where the characters are all universally strong regardless of who you choose to pull alleviates a tiny bit of the headache of team building for so many scenarios. Complaining about that is kinda crazy.

[@rowanmales3430]

It's not good. It loses variety and becomes stale. You only have 4 slots, and if one is simply better in 95% of situations why would you ever try out other characters and playstyles? I don't know the state of your account, but as someone who has played religiously for 1 year, clearing content stopped being an issue within the first 6 months, the question was only 3 starring it. When "can I clear" is no longer an issue, it is much more important to enjoy the clear, and believe me I take every opportunity to justify replacing Ruan Mei with Asta, or try something cool with a meme Welt+Sushang Break, or run Sustain Welt or Jingliu-Blade dual dps. My QQ is still the center of my Mono-Quantum team. Making the team making easier is all good, but is far less of a consideration once you reach the end of th egame. Also I think you are exaggerating the amount of Limited DPS you need to pull for. I have pulled Jing Yuan, Blade, Jingliu, and Acheron. That is, I only pulled 3 DPS elements all this time; Lightning, Wind, and Ice. I use (free) Dr. Ratio and built by Welt 50-50 loss for Imaginary, and built 4-star QQ for Quantum. That is to say, I have 5/7 DPS element coverage and have only pulled for 3 DPS elements.

[@StarVultrixyz]

I don't feel it yet. I've been playing since 1.2 and have thought multiple times about spending on the game, yet here I am still free to play. I was initially going to pull for Ruan Mei, but ultimately chose not to, seeing as I was probably going to want Black Swan or Sparkle (they're kits weren't revealed back then). Turned out I had no use for Black Swan and when Sparkle's banner came around, I already new I was gonna pull for Acheron, so I didn't end up getting either of them. And now we're here again: Robin, another universally OP support is here and yet I'm skipping AGAIN, this time for Firefly. And I think a lot of F2Ps and low spenders are in this situation, not pulling for a good support, because they really want an upcoming character. I feel like if you're not a meta-person, there will always be enough characters you'll want to pull for not because they're good, but rather because you like their design, animations or story. Also this way it's better for the community in my opinion, cause you won't always want multiple characters in the same patch, meaning you don't "have to" spend as much money or just have more time to save.

[@chaserseven2886]

No dudes?

[@Moretropes11]

I have a feeling the next harmony characters we’ll get will be a dot harmony and a harmony that either boosts a path/element or gives more energy regen.

[@mannydani9180]

One other thing to consider about all the power offered by these characters is the fact they're all limited 5* characters so unlike the 4* characters in Genshin, they won't always be available, the rarity and exclusivity allows them to be more powerful. If you weren't playing when Ruan Mei ran or you skipped Sparkle to save for someone else, we don't know when they'll be making the rounds again

[@WarTalonX]

I think I feel something similar but for Sustain rather than Supports. I feel like all the supports are relevant and useful even if some are stronger than others. I don't even really use supports on my dot teams unless I need break coverage from one of their elements. Sustains though are a completely different story. The difference in having a solo sustainer and having to run two sustainers is like night and day.

[@nanahachi9628]

For the Memory of Chaous the other characters don't matter anymore. I have seen all kinds of DD's in the current two MoC, inculuding 4stars. The only thing that matters is whether the player has enough Harmony waifus for both sides. It's quite boring.

[@TakenouchiGabriel]

Agreed. What about dps being able to apply their element weakness as Boot and FF are going to do? How do you feel about that? I’d love to hear you point of view on this matter. My point is: as a veteran player, as a f2p, I’ve been trying to feel the gaps and complete my roaster with dps to cover the elements. If Firefly and Boothill are able to apply their element weakness onto enemies, why the hell would I consider to pull, chase other dps units? Why would I spent my precious jades to get another Hunt or Destruction character? Idk but it seems they’re cooking something

[@АрсенСаркисян-й9у]

They implant weakness ,but resist is still there

[@games-dan]

I’m only a few minutes in, but I have learned at least one thing so far: Vars must have been very hungry when he started writing this script.

[@KakavashaForever]

Players didn't stop using Zhongli, content creators did. Players use him constantly because completing content quickly is their goal, content creators stopped using him because nobody wants to watch someone trivialize content, its boring to watch but its fun to do yourself. Anyway good video. And I'm not saying nobody stopped using him, I'm saying most people who have him use him, and his reruns are still wildly popular because people who don't have him want him. Because hes super strong.

[@Haidex_]

9:42 luocha just straight up gives more skill points than huo huo, huo huo can buff your teammates' dmg but her healing even if stronger is limited to her skill point consumption while luocha's isn't

[@HollyClementine]

Got my first 5 star support the other day, Ruan Mei. Hah actually she will be the first support I use in general. Have E6 Pela and E5 Asta (also have all the other 4 star supports) but literally have never used them once. Did just fine & was able to clear the game’s content (not counting MOC or PF) without any buffs/debuffs. But now that I’ve been using Acheron & recently got Firefly… I got a taste for bigger damage numbers 😅 and want more. So finally gonna start using supports. Maybe I’ll also finally be able to fully clear the MOC or PF with all stars

[@jt1973]

Well, we dont have a 5 star harmony who is focused on Dots specifically yet. After we get that, I suspect they will drastically slow the creation/release of Harmony units OR we will get more diverse playstyles. Rn, we have most concretely Hypercarry (crit dps), Follow-Up (still very expensive almost all 5 star units), DOT (similar, kafka is the objective best dps in this comp), "Dual-DPS" (kind of nebulous, but a Dps and a Sub-DPS or something like that), and Break Effect. We also have a distinction between Single Target and AOE that somewhat fits into this, but not cleanly (Hunt = Single Target) (Destruction = Single/Aoe) (Erudition = AOE) (Nihility = AOE) but these paths can be hypercarries, dual dps, or follow-ups in theory. Once all of those niches are pretty set, I suspect we'll get a lot more elaboration on Dual DPS teams and Dual DPS enablers, as well as more hybrid Harmony, Abundance, and Preservation units (like Fu Xuan and HuoHuo) that make up for the weaknesses of the above comps. Reducing the need for sustains, making a sustain also give harmony-like buffs, or even very niche sustains that only or mostly only work with certain types of playstyles (Gallagher on steroids). To that end, I suspect that more specialized and less generalist 5 star harmonies will actually easily overtake RM/Robin/Sparkle (Bronya) and they will be niche in that they are generalist with a slight specialty, and the new supports will be objectively better in one type of playstyle/one type of damage dealer synergy, but not able to be drafted in most teams the way RM/Robin/Sparkle(Bronya) can, which IMO is a good kind of powercreep since it wont make them irrelevant, and their versatility will always be nice fro people who dont want to simply lock themselves into 1-2 playstyles especially as things go in and out of meta relevance. That being said, I think this game RN is operating under the lens that - because they give so many free pulls, jades, event rewards are high, etc. that people are expected to pull basically every patch for 1/2 of the new characters EVEN from a F2P perspective, and that once youve played enough time you'll have several limited 5 stars + standard 5 stars. Thats how they can get away with having THE "Dot" team rn include 1-2 premium 5 stars mandatorily (Characters like Sampo, Guinaifen, etc. dont even have the kind of dot proccing of kafka that you need to do high damage atm), THE "FUA" team being entirely 5 stars, etc. (We dont have any real dedicated FUA 4 stars at all? Just ones with incidental uses of it) etc. I would rather they slow down their 5 star releases/give more 4 stars, but we are also at a much richer player base in terms of in game resources compared to like, Genshin so Idk if they would change it or just adjust by giving us more rewards/re-sets/top-ups etc lol.