The Problem With Relics in Honkai: Star Rail

Honkai: Star Rail has wasted no time upstaging Genshin Impact in regards to gameplay, quality of life and better user experience. But one central aspect that I wish they could've built their own system around, instead of importing over from Genshin is the Relic system, sharing many problems with its predecessor as well as a few unique issues it has. Today I want to talk about the problems with Star Rail's relic system.
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#HonkaiStarRail #Relics #StarRail

[@quint2568]

Makes it so much more annoying that in genshin to ascend a character i would get anywhere from 13-26 artifacts just from bosses. While star rail gives 0. Some of my best pieces are gladiator from beating bosses for years. And EXP is an issue considering you can get it from regular enemies constantly and farm it without ever using daily resin. And strongbox efficiency in star rail is annoying as hell, 1-10 vs 1-3 like come on make it 1-5 at most. And self modeling resin does not make up for it. Every single time I've used one I get double flat stats and never speed.

[@crushedmilkshake6690]

and even if the pieces are bad they can be used to strongbox or level up another piece. they need to add that in hsr

[@Kuukeksi]

@@crushedmilkshake6690 what? You already can dismantle the orange relics for relic pieces or use them for leveling.

[@WILDLIFEENJOYER]

yes it cost more but in hsr you can choose which piece you want instead of being a random part like in genshin

[@hayond656]

​@@Kuukeksi I was just going to say

[@poiboi4712]

@@Kuukeksithey mean relics from bosses can be used for strongbox in Genshin, while star rail gives you none so you’re loosing out on fodder artifacts

[@callmeandoru2627]

The one thing I’d complain about Star Rail is the simulated universe system for farming Sphere and rope. I really like most of Star Rail’s relic farming system because of the auto battle button. It makes my life as a uni student with 60+hours work week much more manageable. But simulated universe just kinda took that away

[@jawnho]

I think sim uni isn't too bad if you opt for occurrences over battles, but yeah its dumb how 1/3 of the relics are locked behind it.

[@johnnywilson3071]

@@Vepazia More like 15, though with Acheron maybe it can be cut down to 5 instead.

[@lolhellogod6892]

@@Vepazia excuse me? Can you give me what you're on right now? Especially at low levels simulated universes have taken me up to half an hour.

[@articcarton752]

@@lolhellogod6892 i dont know what game you are playing but its not the one we are

[@heilamwether8911]

@@lolhellogod6892yeah idk what your doing: even when I was using QQ before Acheron came out, it took only 15 minutes to farm, but now, u don’t have to worry with Divergent universe, which is actually a really good time saver.

[@jjthan8772]

What I highly dislike about planar ornaments is how it takes 15 minutes to get 8 artifacts, which is a ridiculous amount of time end game. I wish there was an option to skip straight to the boss, as most people at this point have teams that could beat the bosses with no path buffs. Compared to Genshin where 5 condensed is used in 5 minutes max during end game (although most domains have a clear time closer to 30 seconds), leading to 15 artifacts minimum.

[@chillhour6155]

Can you auto exchange condensed resin at the reward chest or do you still have to go to the vendor first?

[@jjthan8772]

@@chillhour6155 Vendor but that takes all of 10 seconds in Mondstadt

[@chifu4040]

I also dislike getting planar ornaments, I only go through SU for them so I can also get weekly points or if I have the tokens. What I find a lot easier is just salvaging 5 star relics I get from grinding body pieces and use the omni synthesizer for planar ornaments, since grinding body is a lot easier, while I’m also getting ornaments on the side. I also save my self-modelings resin exclusively for planar ornaments I want to have a specific element damage buff to make it that much easier.

[@jjthan8772]

@Margxela To be fair coop honestly makes cleaing domains harder once a strong team is built. Ayaka freeze, Mono hydro, anything Nahida, Tao double hydro, Raiden hypercarry, Neuv. All can clear any domain content in under 30 seconds when built. Not much wants to eat 300k hp or more in a cycle When I'm helping in domains, anything more than two becomes becomes hard due to not using reactions while enemies have more hp. For example my go to helper team is Tao Yelan as it'll break any shields while having high dps. With more than 2 people solo dps's are the only option to help carry. Can go support like Clam Koko but then it takes 3 minutes to clear.

[@llthk138]

Time to pull for acheron and use those trick snacks you’ve been saving

[@GentleIceZ]

I don't always agree with your takes, Vars, but you are completely right here. I've been farming the Fixtral Garden domain since it came out, and only have three sets of the prisoner set! And since I'm skipping Blackswan (thanks, Himeko), I need to get that last set so I can get through the dot meta that's currently here without her I just need speed substats, but the freaking things won't drop! I am so tilted because it's been MONTHS at this point! I've only ever had this problem in Genshin ONCE, but it's happening all the time in Star Rail. And to top it all off the three sets I have farmed aren't even good! They're just PASSABLE! They have some attack, some speed, some break, but nothing amazing. Just enough that I can say "FINE! Time to move on to the next piece/set."

[@jammed_yam]

I think you might just have gotten unlucky, but 3 whole sets is also a lot to ask for

[@GentleIceZ]

@@jammed_yam Not in Genshin. I can put together at least passable sets in about a week per set, thanks mostly to the off piece and SPD not being in that game. I did get incredibly unlucky once where it took me about a month, though that was for a DPS I was looking forward too, so I went a little overboard. But it's been nearly three months and I'm still working on this one set The only silver lining is I sure do have a lot off level 15 relics now. Not prisoner relics, but still >_>

[@zekkekeipa6521]

Dont forget that weapons also has more impact on your characters builds in Genshin, because they has actual substats. Things like Favonius can completely lift your needs to farm for a ER piece and Crit weapon let you alternate between Crit circlets.

[@Pyotiru]

Me with the artifact domain for the physical damage artifact domain.... my poor Argenti could never get his better pieces, like a speed substat or main stat speed boots.

[@GentleIceZ]

@@zekkekeipa6521 Yeah, very true. And that's another thing I think is better in Genshin: 4 star weapons are SO much better than 4 star LCs. There are a few good ones like Secret Vow and Breakfast, but they don't give the stats you're looking for, which Serpent Spine does AND gives an amazing effect. And Sure, that's a battlepass weapon, but the Fav weapons aren't and Serpent Spine is SO much better than the BP weapons in Star Rail

[@NintendoFlashShorts]

For the past few patches I've been thinking that they should add a "editable" cavern of corrosion where say, twice per patch, you can select 2 relic sets to appear in that domain A lot of the relic domains only have 1 useful set, so this can increase farming efficiency without taking out ALL the RNG

[@legobrick521productions3]

this is why i’m thankful im a blade main. Id actually lose my mind if every time I get a good relic, it’s on a set no one can use.

[@CrAzY799999]

this was my day 1 thought, especially since seeing that effect res set. I see more use on it now, especially with the increase of debuff-inflicting enemies, but I really don't like it when it gets the really good stats than give it for the other set (forgot name of other set)

[@heilamwether8911]

Tbh, I really do wish they add that sooner or later since ZZZ has that, and it would be such a nice edition.

[@kaylafoxx41]

I've been calling Star Rail's relic system even worse than Genshin's trash system since the beginning. They're both absolute garbage.

[@quint2568]

Genshins isn't that bad. It offers a side slot. Way better than some other games.

[@Accountthatexists]

Tbh there both equally garbage..........cause starrail improved multiple things.......both also made a few things worse............so there both still the same garbage............ The BEST WAY to improve this is let us reset are peices if we get bad rolls

[@CarterVanek-uv3ow]

​@@quint2568"isn't that bad"..........is that a JOKE.............god the copium in this is hard

[@RadialSeeker113]

Same here. Genshins is better. In star rail you need 2 sets and then have to deal with roll rng. In genshin you need 1 set + side slot.

[@Accountthatexists]

​@@RadialSeeker113 *ignores everything that starrail improved* gEnShins BeTter

[@Tube4life679]

IMHO, Self Modeling resin seriously needs to able to pick ALL stats not just the main Stat. We barely get like 2-3 per patch at most so it wouldnt be as overpowered, since it'd make getting that final piece you need for a set much easier.

[@Kspice9000]

It would be massive improvement if we could just take a piece with good substats and change the crap main stat to something desirable.

[@Fuphu]

1) Mainstat choice, 2) One singular substat change option (incase u get double crit but flat defense you can switch it out for ATK etc etc)

[@Dian-p7j]

how about they change those layered RNG shit that would be even better

[@Fuphu]

@@Dian-p7j That's what they're suggesting

[@cookies23z]

@@Kspice9000 I think this is the best choice while still not killing the relic farming which gatcha games WANT to drain your resin/stamina to keep you playing and tempt you to buy fuel/refills/etc changing the mainstate means you still need to roll and find a piece with good subs that you put exp(and thus stamina) into, keeping the game in a state where a company likes it, while still feeling "better" to players then burning a selfmolding resin on a speed boots that ends up with 3 flat stats and def%

[@kibathefang6022]

My biggest problem is why the heck do I need to play 20-30 minutes just to get 8 relics in SU? That game mode takes too freaking long. I hope SU is played not to farm relics but just to get other materials

[@SkyEGofAir]

One of the things that annoys me about relics compared to Genshin is that you can’t have an off-piece if you want a complete 4-piece set; it’s all or nothing. And the planer ornaments, while an improvement on paper, is something else you have to put time to get in practice, and the stats are not always what you need. That, and the fact that it takes 10 5-star relics to salvage to get 1 in contrast to Genshin’s 3-to-1 strongboxing, makes me actually prefer Genshin’s system to HSR.

[@Pyotiru]

Yes, this, this! It drove me crazy because it would be nigh impossible for me to get the right 4 piece or right 2 piece planetary piece.

[@mr.sherlockholmes7993]

I agree that not having an off piece is annoying, but the strongbox system in SR is far better because it allows you to target exactly which piece you want. In Genshin there where a couple of times where I strongboxed far more than 10, 20 relics before getting the piece I needed, that with self modeling resin helps a lot.

[@fridadragongirl7481]

@@mr.sherlockholmes7993 I disagree partially. In Star Rail I am at a point where I basically need every piece cause I don't have much useful stuff (Took a pretty long break). It is really expensive to get just 1 piece when right now random pieces for cheaper would definitely be more useful for me. Star Rail's strongbox feels like it will be amazing later on when I can actually focus on improving a single piece, Genshin's feels nicer to get a character's build started, especially when you are going for a set that multiple characters need.

[@koshak7910]

yea, and you also need certain substats on your relics in order for planer ornaments to work in full effect 🥲

[@borghe]

The 10:1 exists (compared to 3:1) because a) you get relic pieces from BP and end game modes meaning you aren't ever REALLY burning 10 relics to roll a new one.. and b) I really feel exists also because of self modeling resin. You NEED to roll more often on genshin because your artifacts are 100% random. In HSR, with an SMR your main stat is guaranteed. Now what would be nice is if they allowed you to choose between like main stat, substat, OR 4 substats.. ok I don't know who would choose that last one. but yeah it would be nice if I could burn an SMR to guarantee CRIT Rate on a head or hands. The off-set piece though... man... you nailed that. again with SMR... my guess is this is exactly WHY SMR was introduced.. because you don't get a choice on off-set if you want the 4pc. That being said.. running 2/2 with good stats is almost always better than running 4 with lesser stats. I know everyone knows this.. but I think people get so hung up on 4pc.. with the exceptions of Genius and Prisoner which are unquestionably ALL ABOUT the 4pc

[@LihavaLokki]

I realized pretty soon after starting HSR that I'm just gonna be playing the game casually for the story because of this. I have absolutely no desire to even want to try to get close to amazing relics for clearing MoC or Pure Fiction with max stars.

[@МилчоНешев]

agree, but not entirely. Yes farming relics is the most annoying thing in the game but boy oh boy is is satisfying when you 3 star MoC after trial and erroring for hours even :D

[@OgZz73]

​@@МилчоНешев fuck no. Resetting for rng is trash

[@powwowken2760]

I've been trying to update my Jingliu for the last month and oh boy... My head piece has 2.7 crit rate and 10 crit damage, my crit damage body has no speed or crit rate subs and my gloves are meh at 9 CR and 6 CD... Should be super easy to upgrade all of those pieces... Not one... In over a month of farming nothing but her set I haven't upgraded a single piece... "But if you got what you wanted you wouldn't keep playing"... No Strawman, if I got what I wanted I'd cackle like a super villain everyday as I watch my Ice-Mommy annihilate everything...

[@hoangminhtran9559]

I feel you bro i too have been farming for her since the patch before her banner up until this day and my relics still look like crap.

[@YellowPingouin]

If I get what I wanted, I would simply move on to build the character that I've been wanting to use for months now, my Qingque hits like a wet noodle because i'm still not done with my Jing Yuan build even since his relase

[@maevethefox5912]

It's been brutal. I've farmed both the Ice and Quantum set for her and not got anything functional out of either. The effort and time it's taken for her to still be super sub par I could (and have) but a full Abyss clear team from scratch

[@Accountthatexists]

I thought she and DHIL were easier to build though? Since u just need to stack crit dmg on jingling and crit rate on DHIL since they both give the other crit stat in there kit?

[@quansz]

@@Accountthatexists easier to build but still needs good rng for relics

[@wheattins9250]

I’m surprised that you didn’t mention how there’s fewer drops for each domain run in Star Rail. In Genshin, completing the highest level domain gives you like 10+ fodder artifacts you can use to level up an artifact. Whereas in Star Rail, you get like 6 fodder pieces which isn’t even enough to get a level 15* relic even if you complete 6 domain runs (240 trailblaze power). I’m constantly short of fodder pieces and it’s my biggest gripe with the relic system. Sigh, we can’t have all the nice things…

[@hipunpun]

That's true that relics cap at 15 & artifacts cap at 20. Someone will have to crunch the numbers to see which is actually more efficient though.

[@adityawidarma3803]

Also no one talking about how bad for value Golden Calyx are. At least in Genshin leyline gives you more material + monster drop. Golden Calyx is a scam, Crimson Calyx is fine. Edit: in 2.0 the reward amount is remains the same, they just added monster part & synthesizer material in it. It's still a scam. Edit: In Genshin WL 6 7 8, you can get 6-7 Blue Book + 4-5 Purple Book + monster drop with just 20 resin. Yet in Star Rail EQ 5, you can get 30 Blue Book + 6 Purple Book + 2.0 monster drop with a whopping 60 Traiblaze point

[@koharuyuuki3162]

Well how will you get EXP Books without Golden Calyx? Event Books aren't enough to get character to 80

[@Tanubtanu]

Fr, Golden Calyx provide so little amount of EXP book. At least now they start providing materials this update. Currency seems fine in HSR, I had 5 M without farming. Could be because how expensive (in materials) it cost to max out character so only DPS got them.

[@jerryeljeremy7790]

I think they improved the drop this patch for Golden Calyx

[@neerch1987]

You're in luck, you can get other materials in the calyx now

[@vectory674]

Well good news they made farming materials possible now

[@MrsSetsuna101]

Honestly, i feel like just getting rid of flat substats would be a major improvement. There would still be some rng with the other substats, but at least youd no longer get double hp double defense. And since star rail is turn-based, getting a unlucky roll into def% or hp% isnt as bad as it is in genshin.

[@mika086]

That would be great, but sadly it'll never happen, because all artifacts would need to be retroactively changed not to have flats... T_T

[@chillhour6155]

flat substats and Def are best friends unfortunately

[@ajakakakak]

Fr, they’re pointless to almost every character

[@Blackoutdmc]

They could just make all relics moving forward not have flat substats. The odds of that actually happening are slim to none, but if they rolled out a change like that, I can't imagine anyone would complain about making relic farming easier. But yea, competing with 11-12 substats when I realistically only care about 3-4 is NOT it.

[@НадеждаГлебова-м6х]

Yes, yes and yes again. I don’t understand the need for the flats. Why are they there? They are literally fking useless in every situation. For the supports and some dps there can be need for hp% and def%. But flat atk/hp/def are just far worse options of their % counterparts. Their single purpose is to screw us with RNG on rolls.

[@hqhuy931]

I greatly sympathize with this as a jing yuan day 1 myself. I loved the character despite his lackluster performance compared to sellee, and poured so much trailblaze power into lightning set, which is now molding in a corner and can't be used for my kafka - prisoner's, serval - no need for crit, arlan who i don't build. Don't even get started on simulated planar and rope set, since the rng will truly be against you if you even attempt for the right damage type

[@Tanubtanu]

Fr, My Jingyuan still sitting with 70:90 since 1.5, I've been using all on the domain and got nothing but dots set. Atleast I got a bunch of Break effect i guess (like 60+ ish via substats)

[@humzamirza1817]

Did you just say Serval has no need for crit? Please for the love of god read her kit. She's not a DoT unit, she's a crit unit who uses DoT to supplement her damage...she literally has minor crit traces in her kit.

[@ReallyDazed]

It took months to get my Blade a Crit Dmg chest from the specific set. After I finally found it, I wasn't relieved -- I was annoyed. I knew this was going to happen again.

[@tohyuluan2995]

There no way

[@tohyuluan2995]

This is so cap

[@chillhour6155]

Yeah I got to wind chest pieces that rolled both with 31 CR Stat that was insane, but everything else for me since HSR came has been ass rng, I still don't have any musk gloves with CR stats as an example, supports are eating good though

[@tohyuluan2995]

@@chillhour6155 it kinda how they kept games alive the reason to why both genshin and har have a limit to the resin and the energy we have overall it not that hard to get the relic you want in har cuz if you didn't know there a item that you can get for free that allow you to chose what mai stats you want

[@НадеждаГлебова-м6х]

@@tohyuluan2995No cap, really. I also have blade and only reason I was able to get cdmg chest for him is because I spent self modelling resin on it. It turned out shit, doesn’t have cr at all, or any of the subs blade cares about. But it’s a cdmg chest, at least.

[@benardolivier6624]

The problem of relics is that it's 90% of what makes a character good and it's simply based off luck. Recently I pulled for a character and after leveling up the character, the light cone and the talents I went to choose some relics... and the first I found was some great piece that went under the radar, so I used all the relic experience I had at that time to level it up to +15... just to end up with 100 flat pv instead of crits, speed and attack. In the end you see the same character on others having 80/200 cv while yours is something like 50/75 because you keep hitting flat pv or flat def every time you upgrade a relic. Plus in HSR you can't mitigate bad crit rolls with a cr/cd weapon because the light cones have no substats... Plus TP system is horrible. Every day you can use 240 power which is 2x golden calyx and 2x trace dungeon, which if you have a level 75 character only allows you to gain a single level and level up a single trace. This explains why you can't get that many good relics since you can't get many relics to start with...

[@flatdefgod2960]

Become DOT main😂

[@ruihenriques5954]

Still not a solution unfortunatly, been farming that since it came out, I got 1 set of OK EHR and ATK%@@flatdefgod2960

[@MyVanir]

@@flatdefgod2960 Dots are no different in depending on relic stats.

[@windowcatt]

It seems like it is way harder to get cr and cd in HSR than in genshin, like the rate is way worse. I keep rolling into flat substats and defense

[@karenwang313]

You can't escape the gambling. You gamble for characters, then you gamble on relics for those characters, and if you play qq, you gamble in game as well.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

Though I’m sure some level of it is on purpose, I think all they need to add is an option to wash out, reroll, or splice stats. Still would be a grind, but when one hits right, it can be less heartbreaking when later rolls are bad. Beyond that, a new difficulty level unlocked at trailblaze 70 would be nice, just for a bump in the drops once you hit lategame. I also think the flat boosts should be larger, so it can diversify builds or make it a tiny bit less bad, like HP on a DPS or attack on a support.

[@alejandraruiz5031]

My main gripe with Star Rail is basically this and the sheer amount of new characters that come out every patch. It doesn't feel nice when every new character that comes out is suddenly the best one in their filed and the old characters you have no longer being able to keep up with the content that comes out. It's really disheartening and has really effected my experience. I like that in Genshin I know that if I REALLY invest inot a character, they're gonna be good for a while at least, but Star Rail just moves on so fast that it just feels exhausting...

[@TheValkyrieRising]

I've been intensely frustrated that the end game type content is increasingly locked in around very specific 5-stars. I didn't get Jingliu, but there's been content that is trivialized if you have her versus other Ice characters of different paths.

[@mirokas-w6z]

mind if i ask who you are referring to when you say "every new character that comes out is suddenly the best one in their filed and the old characters you have no longer being able to keep up with the content that comes out"? so far i cant really think of anyone that fits that bill

[@leblancattire5951]

​@@mirokas-w6zjingliu.. ever since her release, moc always have ice weakness, even pf now. In pf currently favors dot team (and jingliu), i don't have kafka and bs, I am struggling to finish it. Last pf was too easy, but this time it's not the case for me. I am locked out simply because i don't have the correct pieces. Yes i do have sampo and guin, but their damage and mechanics are abysmal.

[@mirokas-w6z]

@@leblancattire5951 jingliu does makes sense, she is so far the biggest issue the game has, dhil atleast can only work in very specific comps making him more restrictive, as for pf, idk, I just put herta in one comp and seele on the other and I finished it, so I can't give much insight on the difficulty

[@JeSt4m]

@@mirokas-w6z Let's use destruction for example Blade overtook Clara as semi-tank counter DPS Jingliu made Yanqing useless Dan Heng basically become the GOAT capable of demolishing everything even with no imaginary weakness etc. etc. This apply to most release so far like how ALL of 1.0 Erudition is now a bottom tier unit, or how every released healer so far outclass Bailu. As for content every content especially MoC are tailor made so that the new character have an edge. Easy example last MoC the gimmick relies on weakness broken an enemy which blatantly gave advantage to Ruan Mei. other example Swarm disaster and propagation blessing are released with Dan Heng which "incidentally" are easy mode to clear those content. The MoC back then also have skill point usage giving bonus damage again what a coincidence. or Argenti are released at the same time as those corpo slave enemy which have tendency to swarm a lot and "incidentally" all of them are weak to physical. The MoC back then gave bonus based on ultimate used, wow what a fucking coincidence. and so on and so forth. It take special kind of genius to not notice how every new enemy or game mode have mechanics that might as well carry a placard written with "Get the new unit for easy mode". I personally really hate it when someone took me as idiot, gave me a thinly veiled suggestion or provocation thinking they can control my behavior. I'm pretty big spender for gacha game but I spent not a single dime on GI or HSR.

[@flying-ship]

Being able to use 1 off-set piece in Genshin is huge. _You know_ you always get crit r/d on DoT set, healing bonus body on FUA set, and _that one orb_ loaded with double crits and ATK% would be of 'Belobog of the Architects'. At least in Genshin, one of your DPS _definitely can and will use_ your one-and-only, mythical, god artifact with 50cv, regardless of the fact it's on 'Maiden Beloved'.

[@Kuddochan]

The lack of an off-piece is such a huge problem. Some players keep coping that relic synthesis makes up for it but it absolutely doesn't, maybe for the first few months of your account when you have nothing to begin with it's probably true, but long-term it's not even comparable lol. The chances of a newly crafted piece somehow being better than getting to choose any artifact on your entire account with the right main stat are next to zero if you've played for a while, not to mention you can easily flex around which piece that is whenever you want Also who thought it was a good idea to lock Planar sets behind Sim Uni, while a fun game mode in a vacuum, it's so not suited for relic grinding, takes way too much time Thirdly, I hate the breakpoints the game has, both with speed by itself and the set bonuses only working when you hit specific numbers. Having functions get deactivated because you're lacking 1-2% of something is ridiculous, it's not like ER in Genshin where you just have a rough recommendation, but a *specific* number required when locked behind all this RNG and time-gating is so dumb

[@mizanrahmatullah4092]

brooo this is it yeah. i'd be down to play hsr again if the decided to do this just to see if it makes a huge difference or not

[@arianotes6238]

Sim uni is the reason why I don't have a lot of planar sets. It so tedious to do and then for all that effort you still get terrible stats on your sets because of rng.

[@Kuddochan]

@fuyukiryujin3723 Yes that's true, the set bonuses in HSR in general are relatively minor compared to Genshin so it's not the end of the world if you can't hit them. Using rainbow items with good stats is certainly an option, but nevertheless it's not like anyone actually *wants* to build like that or feel particularly satisfied with their characters resorting to using it. It's something people do out of necessity due to the system in play rather than it being a good solution per se

[@prestonleebenjamin]

This was done on purpose. *Think about it from a gacha developers perspective* ; I’d argue HSR actually *learned* from Genshin as the HSR relic system is a more effective *resource sink* , which bloats and refreshes the amount of time needed to perfect sets every time new sets are introduced. No intention of saying whether it’s good or bad, as I think it’s a trade off to keep players invested in an arguably less potent game loop (well before you finishing your set you’re already at the point where auto-play is more than sufficient to beat most content). Just pointing out, “better” or “worse” is subjective, but I’d assume it was intentionally designed that way to inflate and prolong interest in the gameplay loop in between each story/patch update before effectively starting over again with a new character or relic set.

[@kimkardashi-un2.051]

Honkai relic system is way less flexible but I still like it more because I can just do other things while farming 👯‍♀️

[@Accountthatexists]

In my opinion even the relics in this game are still garbage........it's just more of WHY does the energy used for EVERY SINGLE THING Cause my opinion.......they need to make all the calyx and all things to leval ur talents and chars infinite............cauae not being able to build every character in these games where u have to PAY FOR most of them is SO stupid.........if they did that i would not care how bad the relics are cause in my opinion it would balance out

[@Kikus-lf6kr]

​@@AccountthatexistsYeah... Sadly not going to happen🦆

[@Gr0s3d]

Better for the company, worse to the players.

[@callmeandoru2627]

Nah, don’t defend star rail, if it’s bad at something, it’s bad at it.

[@Icrecreqmart34]

I bulit navia in about 2 weeks with on and off play while my ratio with several weeks prep is still terrible

[@Icrecreqmart34]

@Margxela she consistently hit 160k

[@Aetumn12]

​@@Icrecreqmart34thats kinda average isnt it?with full buffs she should be hitting 200k at full stacks bullets

[@far_centrist]

It's easier to max out substats from 6 artifacts rather than just 5. Especially since the subs value is relatively similar. The only issue is speed. For relics alone my blade was done in less than a week with decent 72/168 crits and 6.5k hp (spd boots). I've been farming emblems for Mona since 2.8 and to this day her crit is 53/172 top and never gets better. I got lucky with 3 cyno artifacts but his circlet and cup is still junk and I have no desire to farm for more. Took 2 months. Neuvilette took me a little more than a month for 50 cr 318 CD.

[@LongDeadArtist]

I got usable set in about 2 weeks max for my Navia (with mid substats, but usable) which was WITH struggle with the other set. I have a Navia set, Chevreuse set and off piece from that period. Meanwhile farming the DoT cavern, I have 2 okay sets with 4 stars, neither of which with proper substats (SPD, EHR, ATK). Sucks.

[@BabooLalBarjatya]

​​@@Icrecreqmart34try our neuvillette with avg artifacts (his hunter set) and dehya, Xiao, Yae miko etc with decent artifacts and tell me who's gonna win. Navia has got a really good scaling and you could try furina's set on her. But let me tell you one thing, it's been 3 years and I am still searching for some specific elemental goblets (I have 6 usable anemo and geo goblets and that's what I got till now) and grinding sets like emblem, crimson witch etc upto this date. Trust me, I have gotten def pieces with cr and cd more recently while grinding furina's set and it's like they have set up an algorithm for the artifact stats. I just need to crack it lmao. Hoyo needs to fix relic and artifacts system at the very least😅

[@karsonkammerzell6955]

You missed probably my BIGGEST grievance with Star Rail's relics; leveling them up. You cannot level them without using other relics or the relic resources. All of which are incredibly gated either through Trailblaze Fuel, event rewards, or tons of Simulated Universe runs. This might not seem like an issue, but with Star Rail's requirement of having a diverse and effective roster you very, very quickly find yourself having to burn Fuel and farm relics JUST to level other relics. Even Silver Wolf doesn't cut down on the roster diversity with the number of mechanics enemies, events, Memories of Chaos, and Pure Fiction come with now. So even though I spend hours and hours farming for an above average set of relics, I then need to spend damn near the same number of hours just farming fodder. In Genshin you can get fodder artifacts from 'investigate' points and even drops that just respawn all the time. This leads to my other issue; there comes a point, very quickly, where you literally have nothing else you can do in Star Rail to progress without Fuel. Genshin always has exploration and free roaming to lean back on. Go find some chests, 100% a region, whatever after you're done with spending your Resin. If you've already maxed all of that then great, but you run into that WITHOUT needing to spend Resin; in Star Rail on the road to getting to a similar situation you MUST spend Fuel and constantly.

[@pretzel5880]

I think the cause of this is from the roots of honkai which is a a gacha game at the same time a casual game. You do things for 15 to 30 mins a day logout a be on your way. It wasn't mean't to be a game to be grinded on nonstop. But I do agree though that I wish they add more things to do without trailbaze energy. Though Icould see them adding a sim universe game that can give unli mats but with a bit harder difficulty for end game players.

[@EngelAguilar]

Tbf it has something to do: SU Swarm and GnG My problem is that everything is combat xD but I think it's the essence of the game being oriented to combat so this will never change.

[@karsonkammerzell6955]

@@EngelAguilar That's exactly what it is. I totally don't mind that; Star Rail is built to be a turn based RPG and not an open world one. But I feel like a lot of the love for Star Rail and what it does, plus the associated hatred for Genshin, losses sight of this. I play both religiously and while I spend in Genshin for characters just BECAUSE, I feel like I HAVE TO in Star Rail because of how the content is structured. Look, I'm all for using free characters, but you can't tell me that every player is going to be able to 12 star MoC with free 4 stars when you factor in the mechanics getting added AND the sheer grind needed to get them up to a point where they can. That's why I'm not bothered at all by Genshin not getting a free 5 star. You ever ask yourself WHY the free 5 star was Ratio and not Black Swan, Sparkle, Luocha, Silver Wolf, etc.? Because he's Imaginary damage, which is on a premium, they've been ramping up Imaginary weak enemies, they've been investing in Follow Up triggered mechanics in events and content, and he doesn't need the team setup of something like Imbibitor. They didn't need to give people a free 5 star; they NEEDED to give people a free 5 star Imaginary character with a complete kit out of the box or people would stop playing because they'd feel forced to buy things just to complete content.

[@AshnSnowMD]

@@karsonkammerzell6955 Thats simply not true, you can be f2p and without dr ratio 36* moc no problem....

[@gktte2574]

@@EngelAguilarthem take a long time and gets stale cuz ur practically playing the same mode

[@EmiliaBestWifi]

Finally some CC talking about how HSR's relic system is no better than Genshin's (not a Genshin stan btw)

[@Accountthatexists]

Genshins/starrail has some of the WORST...........no not some, THE WORST equipment in ANY GAME that i have EVER PLAYED And I have played SO SO SO SO SO MANY GAMES

[@xenoemblem7]

Who tf thinks that a randomizer would be a good game design 💀

[@zeer7676]

@@Accountthatexists epic seven's and summoners wars are worse.

[@HexaDecimus]

It's worse then genshin

[@ChefMonke07]

​@@AccountthatexistsI see you've never played DB Legends...

[@lunatickoala]

What's even worse than more characters being released in the first year is that more of them are needed. Hertaverse (plus variants) and now Pure Fiction strongly encourage if not demand that you actually level most of the characters to a usable state. Not having a good direct damage AOE team really limits how far you can go in the previous Pure Fiction. Not having a good DoT team does the same for the current one. It's not enough to just cover your elements, you have to cover both elements and attack styles. And even if you're not trying to farm optimal sets, there's an obnoxious number of hard breakpoints that you need to hit and it's harder to hit them. In Genshin, if you're aiming for some amount of crit rate or elemental mastery, it's not the end of the world if you miss by a bit. But planar ornament set bonuses tend to have a component that demands a certain amount of a specific stat to be active. Sitting at 47.8% crit rate on the set that wants 50% feels bad. Trying to hit speed breakpoints feels miserable. Also, the total number of substats available in Star Rail is two more than in Genshin which makes it harder to get the right substats on a piece.

[@zente3003]

Something else to note about HSR progression system is just how expensive it is, primarily I talk about the talents. Not only do you have to upgrade almost all of them on a sibgle character, you even have to farm additionally for the ascension passives. Something that in Genshin comes for free while you are upgrading your level.

[@BlazeLibra]

If they implemented an item that can switch the set bonus of any artifact, then that would instantly make it so much better. That Belobog sphere with the perfect substats could easily be swapped to Rutilant, for instance.

[@phoenixlau]

You should also mention that in Genshin, it is much easier to farm upgrade xp to speed up upgrade testing in search of a promising piece. There are daily artifact investigation routes that can get you from level 0-->12 which take 10-30 minutes, depending on access to overworld speedy units like Yelan, Xianyun, etc. Contrast to Star Rail where the main repeatable source of xp outside of domains is running Simulated Universe 34 times a week for green dust, which is super grindy and not fun at all.

[@papatongkaca]

No, you also get Xp upgrade from daily mission/commision in HSR.

[@ziodyne7774]

genshin stans are so stupid i swear

[@Miketation]

This is why i only pull for dps that have crit stats in their traces/kits. It really alleviates relic farming.

[@niigolover]

This.

[@IchimonoMan825]

I’ve always hated this “artifact rng” passionately as hell. If the gacha was only left with pulling characters/weapons, thats fine. However, IN RELICS?! IN ARTIFACTS?! IN OUR UPGRADES?! THE THINGS WE NEED TO GET AND IMPROVE TO MOVE FROM POINT A TO B?! Now thats hella effed up. Sure, it would be too easy if upgrading is easy, but why not make the combat in the game slightly more challenging (not too challenging to the point it discourages people) to balance out ease of upgrading? (P.S had to edit cuz i said “genshin made it a thing” but someone corrected me so yeah thanks @Mangosday)

[@mangosday]

Is genshin your first game or...? The "artifact rng" concept wasn't invented by genshin or hoyo. Tons of other games, gacha or other types, use it.

[@IchimonoMan825]

@@mangosdayah fr? Didnt know cuz yeah genshin was my first gacha, but whoever made this upgrade system a thing its irritating as hell

[@VarsII]

Yes I'm a complete buzzkill. Everyone all hype and stuff about 2.0 and Star Rail > Genshin while I'm here to remind you of the real enemy :')

[@Accountthatexists]

Tbh not really.......we all know it......and this is just cleaning up all the reasons why these equipment in this games suck

[@wexon4840]

Yeah yeah you're the asshole villain

[@flatdefgod2960]

Not everyone play star rail, genshin for big DMG We all here for story and waifu stuff

[@Accountthatexists]

@@flatdefgod2960 what?

[@flatdefgod2960]

@@Accountthatexists well some people don't care their relic stats like collector or story lover

[@crystalmeth8045]

Another issue I have with stail rail is it pretty hard to define trash relic we can dispose of. Stats like HP% and DEF% are actually matter, and some unit need specific type of stats and relic set. For example, Ruan mei demands a whopping 180% break effect. So thats mean I need to farm a thief meteor and talia set, with HP%/Def% mainstats, and good roll on the break effect substats, which is definitely counted as trash relic for majority of other unit. This makes my relic inventory getting field with "Relics I might use later trash". And dont get me even started with spd tuning, where too much spd actually become a bad thing. There are no too much substat in genshin.

[@Mii_kan]

Relics are really keeping me from playing StarRail. I don't have enough sanity to farm relics again. There's new stats as well and I don't really wanna understand all that mechanism or how it works. I can't

[@gmoney9469]

Finally someone took off the rose tinted glasses! I love both games, but the number of people that act like Star Rail’s systems are across the board better for players than Genshin is frustrating. I just want fair comparisons.

[@ProvidenceSP]

Vars on genshin: They should make bosses that require a specific strategy or character to beat Vars on Honkai: There are characters that don't work on multi-target or are absolute trash at sigle target, so you need to build a lot of characters and there is not enough resin You see what's happening here?

[@tsyganko]

100% agree. And it’s also annoying that I have to go to 2 different places to gear a character. I only have to go to one domain in Genshin. In Star Rail, on top of the domain, I have to do a time consuming dungeon. (And definitely feeling like I am wasting time there because Expansion modes in SU are so much more interesting)

[@mahiru20ten]

Clearly an odd decision that they make the game have 6 relics but you can't put 2 off-piece relics since they count as different parts altogether. If they choose to use genshin's system of not separating the 6 relics to two different parts we could have more versatile builds.

[@kennethyoung7457]

They have that self modeling resin in the game for a purpose they know you will be able to get the set bonuses with main stat guaranteed at some point.

[@vikryarsana5081]

I agree with everything you said. HSR is (a bit) more so about characters than the relics/planar. For example Harmony characters can pretty much get away with HP/DEF body for more survivability, SPD shoes and 4* 4pc support sets as long the 4pc bonuses benefits the team. Harmony or some of Nihility (debuffer like SW) need more skills level than relic set. You're pretty much at this rate just building the DPS and the Sustainer unlike Genshin that the supports/buffer also really need specific set to be viable like Bennett for example, you need high base attack stat, HP% for more healing, and ~200% ER to burst every rotation, etc etc. Also don't forget that HSR have double relic/planar drops... unlike Genshin. You know that MIGHT help you mitigate your bad luck. Though judging by how fast HSR releasing characters I think we really need to do something for... you know increasing the max drop for resources from Crimson Calyx for example... getting 0-3 (6 if you're lucky) purple drops every 60 TP is horrible. The material cost in this game is expensive af. You win some, you lose some I guess.

[@FOF275]

It's mind blowing that somehow Star Rail and Genshin neither allow you to pick which 1 of the 2 sets you want to farm in a domain nor allow you to make custom relic loadouts you can swap around characters. Even if they want us to spend more on resin, it doesn't make sense to make the whole process as clunky and tedious as possible

[@Eurosdown]

The loadouts thing especially is annoying with how many setups you can run in both games. Meanwhile games like Granblue Fantasy let you create tons of loadouts for specific party setups with their gear and everything so you can specialize for different fights.

[@FOF275]

@@Eurosdown It's honestly hard to tell whether Hoyo are just deliberately making this tedious or if they're incompetent

[@wellwellwell881]

I don't know if my RNG is just bad in HSR, but I also find it harder to get good relics there. If you look at the substat distribution though, there's actually 2 more in HSR, which makes getting optimal substats much harder than genshin , at least for dps. I love DoT units for this reason. Crit dps are so hard to build, since they are so dependent on crit rolls, while DoT dps can get away with way less substat rolls. Sustains and support relics are also way more forgivable. I only need to worry about relic rolls for crit dps. In this sense, I do prefer HSR's relic system, even if both suck.

[@mythlessrwf]

With how fast characters are being released in Star Rail, I’ve been in an extreme relic farming deficit for the sole reason of focusing on their trace mats first 😭 I only really farm relics when the double drop event happens and it’s a BLESSING

[@sephprion6673]

It took me SO LONG to get Dr. Ratio and his signature light cone to Lv. 80 AND his traces maxed. Now I have to farm Wastelander? 🙄

[@Antithesismanifest]

​@@sephprion6673no way in hell in farming this artifact again when they will release a more suitable artifact in the future

[@archersterling6726]

How often does the double reward happen?

[@nereas_gaming]

100% agree also the character release rate has a bonus effect of placing way more demand on stamina for ascension/trace mats which leads to even less available stamina for relic farming. As someone who is not blessed by the RNG gods and is never able to get a cracked set in 2 weeks I've completely given up on farming different sets. I am all in on Quantum domain and focus exclusively on substats, getting the qua 4 pc set going for DPS as much as possible. 2pc guard on supports is alright. It's not optimal for 0 cycling and stuff but I don't care about that I just play star rail to clear the content. I use my crafting mats mostly to go for planar sets using self-modeling mostly for elemental orbs/err ropes on the required sets. I've also dabbled in crafting some hackerspace to run 2pc hacker 2pc guard on supports. It's good enough. To me it seems that optimal relic sets in HSR is really a TBP max refresher's game unless you are one of the rare few who just have obscenely good luck all the time with video game loot. Also I like that character release infographic really puts perspective on the "StArRaIl Is So MuCh MoRe GeNeRoUs CuZ 10 fReE pUlLz" that always neglects to mention that HSR releases 2 new characters most patches and you suffer way more for everything you skip. In Genshin you can truly play who you want and there are entire rerun patches to save. HSR is only more generous if you play solely for gacha dopamine and the only thing that matters to you is how many times you get to pull the lever. In context of the actually playing the game HSR is brutal on jades and resources supply vs demand. I still like both games though despite their flaws.

[@kennethyoung7457]

I mean character release rate shouldn't effect f2p much though since they won't be getting all those new characters anyway. Hoyoverse want you to buy new character than buy more stamina to build them if you are a spender. Genshin is just a far easier game the abyss doesn't remotely need as heavy an investment as MOC 12 or Pure Fiction. We got people soloing character each side of abyss in Genshin where Star Rail that would be pretty much impossible one character does not stand a chance and most likely will be killed in the first turn.

[@lenoria]

honestly its my only gripe with star rail. if they could introduce more ways of getting easy self modeling resin, or creating a brand new type where you could choose 1-2 substats i'd be much more satisfied. getting the amount of relic salvages to craft a new one is also pretty annoying, so i find its usually better to just save the relic fragments. its really mixed. like it costs 7 more relics to craft a new one, but at the same time we do not have to wait 12 months to start crafting them. the second the new patch drops we can start crafting new relics. if we can get more resin and fragments i feel like it'd solve a lot of relic issues.

[@zukodude487987]

Genshin at least gives you 2-5x xp multipliers when leveling. HSRs biggest issue that new characters come so fast its hard to level em all let alone farm artifacts.

[@animusdemifiend2307]

Imagine going for all characters (unless you are a collector)

[@zukodude487987]

@@animusdemifiend2307 HSR you need many of the characters cuz you cant simply skill your way to victory. For most people its already hard unless you play very exact teams.

[@animusdemifiend2307]

@@zukodude487987 idk about that

[@zukodude487987]

@Margxela In genshin you can complete most if not all spiral abyss content with basic starter characters if your skill is good enough, if you have a couple meta characters on top of that then its only easier. In HSR it is often possible to not beat it with meta characters simply due to how restrictive the modes are. Luka can cover physical weakness but is useless if you need AoE. Natasha can heal but wont help if the enemy one shots your characters and is weak to quantum. One room needs Dot like Kafka but Sampo aint much use if you need a fire character. Every character is so niche and every MoC and Pure fiction needs very specific parameters met to beat it so you end up playing endless catch up with character building cuz there are so many and it will only get worse over time with new characters coming.

[@SonnyFRST]

Substat Reroll would solve most problems in both games. Details would need to be worked out sure, but I could picture great solutions for both games that wouldn't compromise on player engagement (in some cases might increase it) while making it worth our time.

[@emmasmith9785]

Don't even get me started on the dust required to upgrade the relics themselves. They take far more than genshin. I literally spend a MONTH levelling ALL my relics for my supports.

[@Sunydancer]

Two points you missed. 1. Set bonuses matter less in HSR as they're not as strong. For better or for worse, rainbow sets with better substats are often just as or more optimal. 2. You need less EXP to max 5 star relics. HSR 76 pieces of 4 star relics vs Genshin 108 pieces. However you do have the random bonus in Genshin + HSR has 6 relics.

[@KamisatoElias]

Took me 2 weeks to get a really strong Blade build. Is taking multiple months to get the follow up Duke Inferno set for Jing Yuan. It’s just horrible. It takes a full day of energy just to salvage the trash into 1 relic

[@nchtblut]

I have been trying to perfect Clara for 5 months and I have succeeded.... now I'm trying the same with the ornaments... I have almost 60 spheres and 50 ropes lol☠☠☠

[@pythiusplaysgames]

I think part of the problem is how much HSR relics cost. 40 trailblaze power is a steep price to pay for 1-2 unusable pieces...

[@Thedarkbunnyrabbit]

Ah, I made it here before Tectone finds this video and says "Nah, HSR just better" and the comments get flooded with nothing but that.

[@ziodyne7774]

Yea and thats why you just believed a genshin fan who is just inhaling copium a whole video, you are so smart :)

[@Thedarkbunnyrabbit]

@@ziodyne7774 Are you high? Nothing you just typed was coherent.

[@ziodyne7774]

@@Thedarkbunnyrabbit try to understand it, I know it’s hard for gacha player, but at least make an effort

[@Thedarkbunnyrabbit]

@@ziodyne7774 It's easier when you say things that aren't absolute nonsense just because you think I insulted your papa.

[@shar4803]

I think we're forgetting that you can just auto battle stuff. Farming relics in Genshin was such a chore because (esp if your CURRENT builds suck) it takes ages to do them, and I never got good artifacts. HSR feels less time consuming and more forgiving in terms of relics, I have amazing teams that clear MoC 12 with almost 3 stars even though I feel like I put little to no effort into them. I think HSR farming taking up less time and not feeling like such a chore contributes to people liking the HSR relic system more, and feeling like it's better than Genshins (it is)

[@justlavendars]

but after the fight ends u need to click battle again button again and that is every 1 minute? how is that better it makes it even more mind numbjng that genshin

[@Raigana0203]

The difference between Star Rail and Genshin artifact system is that, in Genshin, artifact set are really strong. The difference between having the BIS artifact set on a character and having another set is massive (most egregious case being VV/EOSF/BS). In star rail, the difference between throwing the bis set on a character and throwing musketeer on litteraly every dps, never exceed 10%. nearly all of your support can get away with not using a set without being majorly impacted in terms of performance.

[@rowanmales3430]

One thing I REALLY think you should have mentioned is autobattle. Unless I am super motivated to "actually play" Genshin I very rarely do any relic farming despite not having great relics. In practice, this severely reduces the amount of time and resin I spend relic farming. While in Star Rail I just press go and then minimize the tab and do something I actually want to do for a few minutes. This means that, in practice, despite being theoretically a little less good, I find it much less of a chore and dozens of times better than Genshins (where I audibly sigh to myself in boredom at the thought of farming lmao). Star Rail's in absolutely a resin sink, but it makes it easier to do by a lot. Although I accept that only wanting one of the two relic sets is pain.

[@vaderglenn]

I always do my dailies (artifact/talent farming) for hsr while at the gym. Since I ain't gotta do shit lmao, I love it when they take the tedious shit away. So the rng of relics never really feels like shit since I'm not even playing.

[@PrompiTomomi]

Waiting for auto-battle which takes longer time than me playing Genshin domain isn't a good gameplay

[@rowanmales3430]

@@PrompiTomomi ...Do you have a good team? A good team should auto-clear in less than 2 minutes. Yes, I won't deny that a well invested Genshin team with a good personal skill level can do it a little faster, but that is a tiny difference that can be wiped out by anything going non-optimally, (and which also ignores that the two games are requiring you to do two very different types of combat). You are also ignoring the fact that you still have to be there playing Genshin (and playing well and focused too, or you aren't faster than HSR auto). I get to spend 95% of the time doing something totally different on my computer or just watch my team no sweat.

[@mirokas-w6z]

@@PrompiTomomi but playing the same battle over and over again for multiple months with the same enemies and the same formation, manually, is good gameplay?

[@PrompiTomomi]

@@mirokas-w6z You can change up the team comps, try new stuff. That's more gameplay than going literally idle 🤣

[@lunasquib]

Genshin isn’t just a fighting simulator as well, I don’t really care about not doing 100K with Raiden when I’m fighting a hillichurl to unlock a chest so having her artifact set and some good er and atk% is good enough While when I play HSR I notice the fact that I’m weak, and farming for relics is so painful because I can’t have an off piece and the 4pc’s are soo specific idk, dmg is too inportant in this game which makes sense but then having bad luck while farming is just more painful

[@OG-Cyan]

Not to mention Star Rail's relic farming takes SO MUCH LONGER for way less rewards, since the game doesnt even give you as many relics as Genshin does. That coupled with the no room for off pieces thing, AND being required to run simulated universe for orb and rope pieces just makes Genshin the better relic farm imo

[@HSRScope]

the amount of rng in hsr is so baffling its making me want to quit, "right set - right relic piece - right main stat - at least two right substats - right rolls" and im pretty sure these all are weighed to make players spend more time and trailblaze power, like the firefly relic domain gives more fucking follow up pieces with a shit ton of break eff, while the few break eff pieces i get have defense and attack main stats

[@themidnightotaku22]

It’d probably come in more handy if I knew what stats everyone was building on each character.

[@DDemiGodd]

You need 6 pieces All piece must match their sets. 4/6 are in separate resin "domains" As much as the self modeling resin is nice it's almost more infuriating because the rng throws the worse substats imaginable on it.

[@sydannus8302]

It's clearly intentional that perfect relics take forever in both games (and are statistically just about impossible to get) but it's far easier to get 'good enough' in HSR than Genshin from my experience. The initial relic hurdle in Genshin was several months long for me and it took like 4 months to get an EM Goblet alone for Raiden (though at that point I already had basic artifacts and a team or two which helped a lot). The experiential difference between just being able to auto battle on my phone, with a bank for trailblaze power if I'm unavailable for a while versus having to go through multiple 5 minute load times on my PC to get to the domains and wait for a Co-Op party because my artifacts weren't strong enough to do the domains alone. On a daily basis this is absolutely massive. It was fun for a while - but having to do that for weeks or months in Genshin sucked. A lot. What's most miserable IMO in both games is when you finally hit the 0.1% and get a near perfect artifact/relic, only for the substats to go the one place you don't want them. Some way to reset substats would be unbelievably nice to have and would reduce how bad it can feel by a lot.

[@nurventilatoren]

For me its actually easier to get the desired Sub-Stats than it is in Genshin. The only thing I dislike about it, that it is actually harder to level up Relics in Starrail than in Genshin. I don't know if its just me, but it feels like that 4* Relics (or those shard things) give less Exp than 4* Relics in Genshin.

[@freshlymemed5680]

That's pretty subjective because its all RNG in the end, you just got lucky. I'm still farming Grand Duke since it dropped because the game won't give me a halfway decent speed boots for Jingyuan.

[@Accountthatexists]

Saying it's easiar to get substats in gensbin means u just got lucky in that game rather then starrail..........cauae there's both the EXACT SAME system

[@flatdefgod2960]

Yupe bc in star rail we don't have RNG double xp or 5 times xp right? Eventhough it's rare but at least something nice

[@indiomie]

@@freshlymemed5680 and here i am still farming for a good crit body for my seele. in the quantum domain.... since a few days after release.

[@zeer7676]

@@indiomie both games suck, imagine spending 2k resin just to end up with 65% crit and 150 crit dmg gear(genshin) same for star rail, but 1k resin gives me 50% crit and 110% crit dmg, not even 120% crit dmg. genshin gearing system is slightly better, because u can just use an off piece and don't require two entire sets.

[@Sophia_JiYun]

Also it just takes longer to farm which makes it even more disheartening, I wish they at least had a system like condensed resin to offset some of the time it takes to farm because it’s just so painstaking. Genshin’s recent domains usually only have a few enemies that you can clear in like less than a minute. HI3 has a very different system but stats aren’t RNG based and you can get stigmata’s from doing pulls

[@ElevatorIsStuck]

I think youve failed to mention how relic sets matter less than artifact set bonuses and how the quantum set is the best or 2nd best relic set for all dps. For example look at OkCode, all his relics are from the messenger domain and all this dps planar are Vonwaq but his godly substats make up for the loss in set bonuses

[@kennethyoung7457]

I wouldn't say they are less important you get 3 set bonuses that can give you a lot of boosts like I got 35% follow up dmg, 12% atk, 8% crit rate, and 15% ultimate dmg for my Dr Ratio. That is a huge boosts to his dmg output and didn't have to farm that hard for it. Substats in both games are important but they are far more luck based than a set bonus it make sense they can make a big boosts to dps when that is your biggest source of crit rate and crit dmg other than traces. Set bonuses give you features you cannot get from substats like action forward on ult, atk up for all party members, break effect for all party members, immediately get an extra skill point at the start of battle, more energy regen which is exclusive to ropes so you can't make up for that with substats. Star Rail just has general use artifact sets at the moment they will get more focused later on. They already have a relic set specifically made for follow up attacks that give you 48% atk boost at max stacks.

[@amals3568]

For me personal the Genshin artifact grind seems more tedious due to a lack of auto play. Even though star rail's system is worse, I don't fell bored or overwhelmed, grinding is something I can do in the background will doing something else. But in Genshin we have to actually pay attention.

[@Sam_Hue]

Both systems are garbage to incentivise hard grinding.

[@aetriandimitri190]

Finally someone brings this up, I've been saying this since launch that its much harder to farm in hsr than in genshin and people just tell me to shut up going "oh but faster recharge" ignoring everything else about it with the no off pieces, and that you have 6 slots instead

[@Leedoe1989]

Finally! All this drama about Genshin giving out only 3 fates but as someone who plays both games, likes to optimize and doesn't want to waste money I think Star Rail has a ton of problems that players happily ignore. I have to skip so many characters in SR because if I want one it seems like half their kit is locked behind their weapon and the artifacts are so annoying. I have re-farmed artifact sets for seemingly every character because a better set came out and the artifacts that I have left have become useless, because there is no off-set piece... I still enjoy both games, but the drama about which game is better is so dumb, both want you to have fomo and will make sure that you are constantly tempted to spend money. They are both evil.

[@ziodyne7774]

holy copium, i dont have a single signature weapon and still using electro set JING YUAN in breakfast to clear all electro content, you are actually delusional. They are equal to weapons in genshin, but there you cant buy a 5 star weapon in shop :(

[@justlavendars]

1) off piece 2)the remodelling thing sucks 3)strongbox is needed so bad 4)useless ahh subsets need to be removed 5)farming the rope can be a pain 6)too much time taken in 1 round 7) co op

[@lonk341]

i been feeling this for a while. I also believe you may have missed point or two. Correct me if im wrong but unique roles per artifact are also more difficult to obtain since they are so much more in star rail. An example being genshin has: 12 -Energy Recharge on Sands -Crit dmg/rate and healing bonus on crown -ele.dmg roles on goblet (8 different ele,) Star rail has more with: 14 -boots have speed -planar has ele.dmg (7 different ele.) -rope has break effect and energy recharge -chest has crit rate/dmg, outgoing healing AND effect hit rate. It may not be that great in numbers, 12 to 14 but when you have no leniency for a free slot this hits extra hard. It makes it incredibly hard to part ways with Relics with decent sub stats when you are a sweaty-stinky like me. which lead to the final point. All these unique roles it make it hard to part ways with artifacts that have potentially decent roles and with no "free slot" of an artifact set AND two extra pieces to build (planar and rope) we need more artifact space. it took me so long to cap out on artifacts in genshin but in star rail it was so fast i cant even recall when it first happened so long ago. sure im a sweaty but even after getting rid of the trash it crept back up really fast. Genshin and star rail artifacts are no shiny example of how this should be done but if i had to choose a lesser evil, i would pick genshin. A good example of end game building characters in a gacha would be Brown dust 2 if anyone would like to do some research and see not a perfect way, but a much better way of end game character building.

[@chaosbean3211]

The lack of universality, rigid nature of maintaining sets, having to go through simulated universe every time, and the sheer rng in obtaining and leveling relics hurts. The improved crafting system removes two elements of rng, but there's still main stats, sub stats, and leveling to contend with. Even the self-modeling resin removes just one layer of rng, but bad sub stats can still ruin a piece. Gearing up a character just feels awful, but you really do need a diverse roster to keep up. And it's not just endgame content that demands a strong account; taking too long in battle makes enemies go berserk, where they continuously empower themselves to the point of one shotting your characters.

[@antharu3235]

Fuxuan is the answer 😂..no one can one shot team if fu in there..

[@monthly7846]

12:08 THIS! This is the thing that annoyed me the most abt Starrail as a casual player. When I was a genshin newbie my fav char was Beidou, and if I wanted to I could take her into literally every battle and slog/brute force my way through, I could even fight the electro cube with her even though it totally nullified her elemental damage. Switch back to Starrail and I can't even take my fav character, Serval, who I've sunken my best resources into, into 70% of my fights bc she's absolutely useless and we'll use the fight. I'm not a meta player, I don't care about optimized fighting, I will happily slog and push my way through a fight if it means I get to spend time with the characters I adore; there is nothing more annoying then having to sideline a character you love and were excited to play bc you simply cannot do the fight with them and theres no alternative :/

[@overlordshiina]

I feel like there is a huge bias because both games being out at the same time makes people forget that there is a 2years gap between them. Genshin didn't have a artefact domain with 2 good set until inazuma (after a whole year) because the heart of the depth set was only used on Tartaglia. Maybe by the end of this year HSR will start to introduce domains with 2 good set to farm like Genshin and then the feeling of always getting the artefact set you don't want will go away. That being said it is very true that the flex slot in Genshin artefact system gives it the edge, at least when it comes to gearing up a unit.

[@que7094]

The fact that half of the relic sets are unusable while quantum set and hackerspace reigns over every other set to become the most universal relic for dps and support is just pure comedy

[@cygnusvids]

Highly agree with all of your points, especially the lack of off-pieces. As someone who just wants to get through the story, at this point the only strategy I've found that doesn't make me want to hit my head against a wall and uninstall the game is waiting a week, mega farming the hackerspace/disciple sets, then synthesizing every other set I'm going for. I actually get more frustrated by the autobattle than Genshin's lack of it, because you can't select multiple runs at a time and have to keep checking the game every couple of minutes instead of truly putting it in the background. Plus the lack of chance for 2x/5x artifact exp... even if the overall farming times & efforts are similar, HSR made me sick of the entire artifact/relic system much faster than Genshin ever did. (And of course, somehow my Fu Xuan still doesn't have a good set. lmfao)

[@TrinitySting]

Bad relic system? Bad genshin artifact system? No bro, it is Hoyoverse that is bad

[@joshsolders5543]

I'm sorry, but this missed quite a bit of stuff. First off, the fact that all main stats have equal probability and there are characters that want that main stat is huge. In Genshin, you are often more likely to get a 5 star in one pull than an artifact you want with a specific main stat. 8 months of farming deepwood with not a single EM hat dropping proved that to me at least. Second, Ruan Mei proves that they will make characters that scale off most anything for any element unlike Genshin that is scared to make an EM scaler since Alhaitham and us having only one character scaling off ER. Third, sets are may more universal even on release. The Break Effect set applies to a lot of characters and is the meta set for a good number of the cast, Wild Wheat is a decent set to throw on lots of characters. the general sets you get from beating bosses etc is niche at best. Some characters can use Gladiators. The charged shot set it worthless. Fourth, a small percentage of the cast actually need optimal sub stats, the majority have one or two stat goals and that's it. The rest is super flexible. 9:34 This is just so wrong. Unless you have the entire cast built, All the caverns you listed as having bad sets except belebog with inert salsotto are highly desired for entire classes of characters.

[@phoenixlau]

Star Rail main stats are absolutely not equal probability, e.g. ER rope is 5% drop rate. Literally any amount of relic farming would make this obvious. Rest of post is riddled with wrong stuff as well, but if you can't even be honest with something like that, no point in even addressing rest.

[@joshsolders5543]

@@phoenixlau Ok, which parts? Who uses the bard set? Is it worth equipping the majority of cast with Gladiator's? Have they added more characters like Raiden Shogun or other EM scalers? For that matter, outside Noelle, do we really see that many relevant Def scalers. I know the closest is Itto and he's not that relevant with his best team as him being a Furina Yelan driver. I was aware that it was 5% for the ER rope, however, more data has come out since I did research into this earlier in the game. Boots being 10% speed isn't the best, but the goblets have better ratio. And generally speaking, you are more likely to get the stats that most people farm for on the artifact sets compared to genshin ratios. Plus, ER is the only stat that's like 5% Elemental stats are 9% each and then the rest are like 10% or 15%. Considering how you presented the ER rope, I get the feeling an inaccuracy you refer to is the main stat argument. Its that way because each dungeon has 2 sets with 5 artifacts each. That's 10 different pieces which are assumed equal because as far as I know that's the case. So you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting the right artifact type and set. And then since most relevant main stats are 10% or below, you divide them by 10 to get the actual chance of getting the right artifact with the right mainstat which is 1% or lower. If you want to include Atk, HP, and Def, you can which doesn't follow this, but you might care on sands and possibly goblet with Furina, but people still default to Elemental bonus on goblet because swapping for Furina can be annoying, especially when you consider that's an extra artifact to farm. And TBH, ATK and HP are usually lower concerns than getting crit ratios etc, so no one is really farming for atk sands and they aren't really relevant in the discussion. So The majorit of stats have abbismal rate like 0.25%, 0.5% while HSR mainly hovers around 1.25% or higher for the 4 pc sets and about 2% or 3% for the 2pc sets. If you want to say its inaccurate to suggest that break effect is important or characters are built around it, you need to look at guides or something. There, you would also find out that DoT teams don't need crit stat, but mainly just atk, enough hit rate, and some speed. Break effect characters need Break effect, enough hit rate, and speed, usually on the higher end. I could keep going, but I think you should learn on your own. Either way, so many units need a few stats to be very functional and a lot of the units use plenty of sets Vars deemed unwanted. To prove my point, lets take Silver Wolf, she needs enough Hit Rate, about 100% at C0 to get all her debuffs at 100%. Then you stack enough speed so she always goes first and as much break effect and bulk as you can. No crit requirements, no min atk, just what works best. I will give that 1 or 2 was a bit strict though. It was easy to say because its a common phrase, but 2 or 3 is probably more accurate. Except for some pure dps characters, its easy to build most characters compared to Genshin where most characters need crit and what not. The exceptions are mainly healers, shielders, swirl units, and hyperbloom/burgeon drivers. You only really build a few of each of those. Healers and Shielders, even with 4.0, are avoided except when necessary, you build like one driver, maybe 2 for burgeon if you want that, and a few swirl characters. The majority of the characters you will build will require much more stringent requirements as compared to HSR where the majority do not.

[@karenwang313]

At least in Star Rail, you can autobattle the relic grind away while Genshin forces you to actually sit down and play the exact same dungeon over and over again for up to a month until we get the good artifacts.

[@PizzawurmV1]

I think one big reason why Star Rail's relic farming feels worse than Genshin's is because you dont really notice any difference for most relic sets except a bit more damage. In Genshin you can often put different sets on the same character and play them in completley different ways.

[@micolimbs9068]

since launch, i’ve been grinding inert salsoto for a phys and lightning dmg boost sphere for my clara and jing yuan… till this day surprisingly don’t have one with any crit stats on them

[@testogel85]

It would be more accurate to say the relics are inconveniently / annoyingly designed, rather than "poorly." I'm sure Hoyo put a lot of thought into the system and made it optimally from the company's point of view.

[@kupo6905]

Least in Star Rail you don't need to get a ridiculous crit value of like 70/200 in like half the characters just to be somewhat optimal. Crit has so much more importance in Genshin, it's ridiculous and it's mostly the only stat that you want, next to em, er and sometimes hp/def if someone has some scaling Star Rail has so many ways to buff crit, you don't need to hyper invest. Supports don't need crit too. Also other stats are more valuable and are not necessarely a waste, like effect resist for example. Thank god I don't need to worry getting as close to 100/200 crit value in every character Now the REAL issue in Star Rail is lvl up your relics. That is one hell of a grind on its own

[@flatdefgod2960]

Nah it's still same in the end In genshin you don't need tanky stats for support since they r just offield buffer/debuffer You can put lvl60 support character Imagine how much exp artifacts we all can save Plus genshin have ×2 and ×5 exp artifacts RNG. But star rail? You need tanky stats for support too bc you can't dodge in turn based game(unless they released camouflage/blind/evade kit)at least +12 relic all of them Or they all got one shot even Fu xuan can't save them😂.

[@jellifygirl]

​@@flatdefgod2960Talking as someone whose account is gigabricked from pulling and raising every single support in the game, how hard is it to get an HP orb and a few DEF% substats? You need a lot less to be super tanky in this game, with how high%s the tanky stats will roll. Even my Ruan Mei and lv60 Bronya who I got like two days ago can take some hits...

[@zeer7676]

@@jellifygirl depends on the support, really. Units like ruan can take a few hits, since she only needs speed/hp/def, but units like tin or louche will need to atk/speed for atk buff/heal.

[@jellifygirl]

@@zeer7676 You're not wrong, though I don't wholly agree on the specific characters. Ruan Mei wants a good amount of break as well as speed and tank stuff, so she can be a bit annoying if you also want her to be decently fast, meanwhile Luocha is a "sneeze and you have him built" character. 99% of his build is done with main stats and a 2pc heal set, so fishing for random mid relics with SPD and DEF is pretty chill. Tingyun is probably the second hardest other than hyperspeed Bronya though, that shit's real.

[@Destiny87]

Star Rail's system is also nice because it has overflow refund. Relic you're leveling at 14 and you're out of mats? Feed it that useless level 15 relic. You'll get shards equivalent to the extra exp.

[@rexevan6714]

Tbh at leats the Self Modelling Resin are abundant. Also, just because the new relic is released that does not mean the old one is useless.

[@edimsm6069]

I think Star Rail giving you the possibility to "craft" relics with a chosen mainstat is really good, BUT not having the ability to have an Offpiece, and needing good relics of the correct set is cruel

[@cristianperezbrunet7944]

I swear that flat atk and def are just there to torture us 😂. Also the substats should be reduce to 3 to reduce the rng, I don’t know about you but it’s always that last substat that comes in that fucks me over 😤

[@1ady0taku]

Honestly i dont even farm artifacts in HRS , i just do the domain to get the required four piece and just auto equip.

[@jellifygirl]

I honestly don't get a lot of this video. Like sure, new sets mean new relics to farm, but you don't ever need to do that. It's like you said at the start, it's so much easier to get passable relics that you can clear content with. I've been running a Welt that looks like he's cosplaying Tingyun because imaginary domain is kinda bad, and he SLAYS. Rainbow gear is completely viable, and very few characters desperately need a 4pc unlike in genshin. I kinda wonder if that's why the takeaway was what it was, because of the assumption that everyone needs a 4PC something to be any kind of optimal... Also, this is more like a nitpick but the quantum domain is the non-Blade main's equivalent to the HP/SPD domain... You can throw Guard as a 2PC with SPD set on any damn support and it'll pop off! I basically only farm those two domains now, they're OP as fuck, every support wants HP, SPD or DMG red. and a large chunk of the standard DPSes will go hard with a 4PC quantum.

[@GodofGoblins]

So when he says clear content, that is usually in regards to story and some easier events. For true end game, it is usually more ideal to have more optimized sets. If you are clearing true end game with sub optimal sets, then you probably have super meta characters or something. Otherwise no shot. But, that is only if the very end game matters to the player. If moc 12 or whatever isn't a huge deal to the player, that's fine. Most other content can be cleared with whatever sets.

[@kyllernotkiller]

I feel the only problem I have with relics is that everyone (except Clara) needs speed, and because I'm unlucky I usually just go for 2 sub stat I want and that they'll roll at least once in one of the 2, and I think I have only 3 artefacts spread to all my characters that have speed as sub stat, I think my fastest character is my Asta at 125 speed... Yeah... everyone I have is pretty slow and I don't even use Asta that much because I just go with Fu Xuan and tank everything but sometimes it gets annoying not acting for 7 turns until 1 of my characters can do something.

[@adora_burst8143]

I like the idea of Self modeling Resin, but not being able to pick the substats absolutely annihilates the usefulness of it since it's all but useless to get that missing piece for your Jingliu or Imbibitor Lunae, so really it's only useful to finish your support characters build like Tingyun or Bronya. It feels like I'm wasting such an important material because I need to build a DPS.

[@naeonixion]

I can't play Honkai without thinking of how limited I feel in everything I do. There's no exploration of the kind that actually matters... the locations are so pretty but still manage to feel empty and I absolutely haaaaaaate the relics. I still have it installed, but I cannot get further in the story with my current equipment at rank 55... so I just haven't~

[@buttermanaws4693]

I have had such bad luck with relics that I usually settle for second best sometimes just because I want to do something different and actually use the character

[@Gianisasi]

Bro I genuinely think the Genshin artifact roll rates are better because I've been stuck for over 3 months building Clara and she's still far from my ideal build- like this is absurd. And the fact that I still have like 6 other new characters that I need to build. FML. I just don't experience this in Genshin. You could argue I'm just lucky getting the right artifacts and unlucky for getting the goofiest relics but come on 3 months should be more than enough for an ideally built character.

[@QianRS]

Calling Star Rail's gamplay "upstaging" that of Genshin is certainly a stretch. One of the reasons I don't really enjoy Star Rail's combat is that even though the game has been streamlined in a sense from being an action RPG to a turn-based game, Hoyoverse has stubbornly made the decision to stick to one basic, one skill and one ultimate per character. Compared with a favourite turn-based game of mine, XCOM2, where ignoring movement options, each class has multiple skills that they player can opt to use in a single turn and have to weigh skill cooldowns, action point costs and limited-use skills when making a decision. I was expecting Star Rail to have at least two skills, a basic and an ultimate per player since it opens up more tactical depth and gameplay diversity, but apparently gacha players' eyes glaze over when reading text longer than one paragraph so they have to stick with one skill only.

[@Mantosasto]

I just wanted a pass or defend button. Not even that could they give us.

[@chaosinfernoid9008]

Casuals

[@rainsword42]

if I may add, we still don't have option for canceling the ult

[@TabbuEme]

From our point of view it sucks, but from a game design perspective, it is perfect. By making it RNG hell, they ensure that a player is pretty much NEVER at a point where they don't need to farm relics for a character. It's there as a bottomless energy sink.

[@gameplayerone3917]

I mean, you quite literally only ever need to farm Musketeer and World 3 of SU. The difference in damage, compared to an optimal set, is so insignificant, but people can't do math. A 10% damage difference, when a character does 100k dmg, is only worth 10k, and most sets don't give that much of a damage difference at all, except for Genius. At the end of the day, substats are far more important. Sweaty people will always have something to complain about.

[@euanwarkentin7204]

Honestly, I prefer HSR relics, as you said the game wants to you use more varied units, so how quickly you can get a good enough set matters more than how quickly you can get an optimal set. I generally end up quitting genshin less than a week after every x.0 and x.4/5 because I hate grinding artifacts simply due to the time it takes and the fact that finished most of the new quests and explored a decent amount. Sure HSR takes more runs/longer from an in-game perspective to optimize, but I probably spent less than 1/8th the real-world time actually grinding. And honestly the feeling of "when will this end" with artifacts/relics sets in after a few days so I dont really notice the difference between 1 month and 3 months when it comes to grinding. Either way linear grinding > rng grinding arknights on top

[@miroheartech4231]

I really don't agree with you, or at the very least I find your points kind of a first world problem. All your point rely on the idea of wanting to optimize the character, not just building the character. While yes, having a offpiece allows you to use an outside piece and minimize the time spent on a given relic farm, the fact that you have a very good offpiece of another unrelated relic is exactly because you spent so much more time farming for other relics. You didn't farm less, you just already farmed it; the net time wasted is equal, and even than as you said yourself star rail doesnt really have time wasted since you can just autofarm. But yes, having more leniency would be nice. The specificity of the set effects are honestly just preference. I for one prefer specific set, but I can also see why people prefer more globally useful sets. I just don't think it's healthy for the game when a new set is announced and you can just say "that's like the one that already exist, just marginally better/worse. no point in farming that." Finally, regarding the fact that since more units come out there is a greater rush in building them, I mean, is it really that much of a problem? Ignoring the fact that it is still a first world problem because you can settle for less and build a "good enough" unit in maybe a week, being able to complain that they are throwing too many good units that we want to build at us I think is a good thing. There is really no rush. Unless you are a content creator and you absolutely need to have the video ready in a couple of days, the character doesnt go anywhere once you get it. All this said, I really dont get why hoyo is so hellbent in putting 50 layers of rng for every equipment, but no way of rerolling any of it.

[@Potte]

It's a hard thing to quantify, but subjectively I feel worse about artifact farming in Genshin for my personal level of desired optimization. Maybe it's because I expect more out of my Genshin units, with it being a more hands-on combat system, but it just feels like you spend so much time and resin getting really useless main stats like DEF% on an ATK% set. Or maybe you just feel the pain of bad main stats more because you have to manually complete domains for the artifacts, whereas in HSR you can just auto and tab out. EM having abysmal rates while being the one stat that you might want to stack on all three pieces is miserable too. And while you do technically have room for an off-set piece in Genshin, just based on the way the rates play out it's almost always going to be your Elemental DMG% goblet. Don't get me wrong, it's still better than not having one at all, but would I take self-modelling resin over that? Maybe, I'm not sure.

[@gameguy1337]

"They release better relics so I have to regrind" Well there’s your problem. You are regrinding relics for a 1% dps increase. Just build old set and move on, we get way too many characters to get hung up like that.

[@Patricko22]

I hope someone from the HSR team will see this video and maybe they will make farming for relics at least slightly better