The PROBLEM with Vegan Meat

[@FutureProofTV]

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[@theod0r]

more like ground beef am i right

[@NickIggler1969]

@@theod0rin gay we trust

[@someguy2135]

Yes please do a miniseries on cows! I would be sure to watch it and possibly share it.

[@DarthAwar]

What people forget is is uses 3 to 6 times more power to produce and ship so any environmental costs from not raising cows etc is off set by growing extra beans beets seeds grains etc to make the fake meat than refining and combining them uses so much more power than just cutting meat up Also so few factories to make fake meat means it has to be shipped further and refrigerated or frozen for longer This all adds to the high costs and environmental impact

[@NickIggler1969]

@@someguy2135 in gay er trey

[@Alias_Anybody]

Selling it as an expensive lifestyle product will never change anything. It needs to be store brand and actually undercut the real thing in price by a significant margin to have a chance. That's the only way other replacement products (like margerine vs butter or corn syrup vs cane sugar) were ever successful.

[@samsonsoturian6013]

That's called beans

[@Alias_Anybody]

@@samsonsoturian6013 Beans are nowhere near close enough to a steak to scratch the same itch.

[@Master_Roach]

​@Alias_Anybody did you include the tax money you spend to subsidize that steak?

[@Alias_Anybody]

@@Master_Roach That's kind of an issue of course.

[@Master_Roach]

@Alias_Anybody I mean I can't even say one is more expensive because I don't know how much of my money is spent on animal products to begin with. Plus I'm vegan so I'm paying for your food on top of my more expensive fake meats, tofu Hella cheap though yum.

[@nawwk79]

Price is number 1 reason why they failed. Beef burger: $2.99 Impossible burger: $4.99

[@TheDeadmanTT]

I agree, but the beef burger would be a lot more expensive without government subsidies.

[@someguy2135]

I agree. Unfortunately, the sudden rise in inflation happened just when plant-based Meats were gaining momentum.

[@AllHailSeizure90]

It's absolute garbage fuel-wise as well. Anything backed by Gates should be ignored

[@EbikeAdventuresSD]

Go be poor somewhere else it’s call an investment in the planet

[@EbikeAdventuresSD]

Ok poor boomer

[@The_GamingChef]

As a chef of 15 years, I've served all the brands even today I have "Chunk" on my menu for vegans. The main actual consumer base were people told by their doctor they cannot eat meat, or recently switched vegetarian/ vegans. Long term vegans have no interest in the taste/texture of meat. Regular meat eaters are also not interested due to the flavor. They have a very fake aftertaste and smell a bit off. The chunk brand I currently serve has the texture and taste similar to beef short rib. The 1st bite is pretty good, by the 3rd bite it suffers that same off-taste the other brands have. Most vegans substitute the protein on the dish 🍴

[@Voldemorts_Mom]

Yoah dude I dno, I'm vegan and I freaking loooove beyond burgers. But yeah I eat it as a treat, otherwise it's tofu and seitan

[@adriangas_]

I'm vegetarian for almost 20 years and I cannot agree more. It doesn't taste good for me and I much prefer regular vegetable/mushroom based patties in my burgers.

[@paradoxzee6834]

That is true as a meat lover I tried plant based meat, it did not taste anything like meat, some people told me to try another brand, so I tried few brands and every brand tasted bad. I even tried vegan cheese, the taste was bad, I tried to do it on toast, and it was better, but I rather use real cheese. The food items cost more than regular meat or cheese but the taste is much worse. I gave vegan alternatives a fair chance and every single item underdeliverd

[@Voldemorts_Mom]

@@paradoxzee6834 nah u guys are fucking tripping. Beyond burgers are so freaking good

[@nevakelly7052]

Someone should check our climate over the last few thousand years. Instead of believing propaganda.

[@GreatSageSunWukong]

they are too expensive, a block of tofu or beans is cheaper, I used to buy them but everything is too expensive now

[@johnnarogers5636]

In most of my grocery stores tofu is still more expensive than chicken per pound.

[@GreatSageSunWukong]

@@johnnarogers5636 I can buy a pack of tofu for £2.50 that will last me 2 meals, the fake meats like burgers are £4+ for a pack of 2

[@rk28984]

you can make a great veggie ground beef alternative out of smoked tofu, celery, carrots, mushrooms, eggs, a bit of potato-starch and herbs. Did a veggie-loaf when I had some vegetariens over for dinner and everyone (even the meat eaters) agreed it tasted basically like a meatloaf but more jucy.

[@moritz7179]

Meat is just way too cheap

[@Kisel228-fp8iz]

@@moritz7179 Nah, soy and grain is a million times cheaper, these products are just overpriced.

[@ClassicGamer2996]

i think the biggest problem is the price, beef is cheaper then beyond

[@FutureProofTV]

big time!

[@maxheim3802]

We are so lucky in germany to have Lidl with its own brand, Vemondo. They are specifically made very inexpensive to boost sales. E.g. 1,2 € for a salami pizza, 1 € for a block of feta cheese, 1 € for a pack of cold cut meats, 2 € for a 300 g pack of schnitzel. The industry has to change. These options are way more environmental friendly, are more ethical and dont cause pandemics

[@Vettibomba]

​​@@FutureProofTV Beyond meat shouldn't be compared to the cheapest burgers in the supermarket. It's the same price here as the 'better' supermarket burgers. The bio meat ones are even more expensive. The store brand vegan burgers are cheaper than the meat ones here in the Netherlands. Beyond is an A brand product so it's priced as such.

[@Altair00rion]

@@Vettibombaproblem is it doesn’t taste as such

[@olbaze]

For years now, I've been saying that unless the cost of fake meat comes down to a point where it's in the same galaxy as regular meat, it will never pick up. And unlike a lot of other higher price items, such as fancier cuts of steak, or imported specialties like guanciale, it doesn't really make sense as a luxury product either. Who's gonna say "Ok, I'm really gonna treat myself this Sunday to a nice, fake burger"?

[@mchenrynick]

All the "bad talk" about eating meat, reminds me of how the public was influenced to use "vegetable oil" instead of lard back in the 80s & 90s.

[@yunder.]

There's a reason you're reminded: the same forces are involved in both, steering people away from foods that keep them healthy. Red meat, bacon, eggs and tallow are health foods. Frankenstein lab "foods" aren't even food.

[@jojomojo508]

you are less than human

[@Ouchimoo]

Also how we pushed away from home grown food to ultra processed foods back in the 70s. And they don't want to fix it because diabetes is very profitable to treat.

[@jojomojo508]

@@Ouchimoo you are literally subverbal

[@1982pokemon]

​@jojomojo508 you working for Nestlé PR?

[@MichaelPybus]

That poor Monstera plant behind you is begging for some water.

[@rukiapyonpyon]

Lol. It distracts me too.poor thing

[@thomasgatti]

Lmao

[@thomasgatti]

Idk if it might actually be over watered haha

[@SJITZ]

How can you tell? I just adopted one from the street

[@ludicer122]

haha your right and cheers for the reminder, Going to water my Monsteras now :P

[@Cometski]

The price of Beyond meat is beyond normal meat

[@richardlinares6314]

A pound of hamburger meat would cost $30 without subsidies.

[@DEADB33F]

​@@richardlinares6314 Meat isn't subsidised directly, it's food the animals eat which is. If the grains, legumes, etc fed to animals wasn't subsidised then yeah, meat would cost more. But then again those same grains, legumes, etc get put into processed vegan food so it'd mean that'd cost more as well. All removing the subsidies on locally produced grains, etc would do is to boost imports of those same commodities and reduce food security (as well as putting up food prices across the board).

[@dmitrychernivetsky5876]

Not only that, this fake meat shit is processed trash that is toxic for you

[@HexaDecimus]

Cost of beyond meat is beyond me

[@theconstitarian]

On the subsidy point, Beyond also benefits a lot from farm subsidies. It is made from rice, potato, avocado, etc., all of which are subsidized.

[@fabienso5889]

​@Learning-sb5gj I really wonder why soybean is so heavily subsidized Oh yeah because it's one of the main animal feed and the second most important concern of American after gas price is meat price

[@nullethosechoes]

@Learning-sb5gj no. The oil and the meal are co-products, with animal feed dominating in economic value. The reason they grow a lot of soy for oil is because they also profit from the meal. If there were only demand for the oil, other crops could be grown instead.

[@RR-ds4sd]

​@@fabienso5889because if it wasn't, Brazil would take over the whole American market.

[@vatsilvsgi8606]

I remember, back after the pandemic when eggs were 1,000,000 dollars a dozen, beef got affected eventually and suddenly beyond and impossible foods flew off the shelf here in my tiny rural town because it was cheaper. I don't eat meat, and thus am hyper aware of non-meat products availability, and that was a fascinating look at what would happen if it really WAS cheaper.

[@p4l4d1n7]

Id put money on them finding out at home and being pissed and throwing it out.

[@JasminUwU]

​@@p4l4d1n7 most people are not lunatics who throw out perfectly edible food.

[@ivannightly1919]

eggs will never be really expensive cost nothing to raise your own hens I have 6 produce so much I am always giving away the extras. and truth is processed food has never been more heathly for you so think about what you'd have to do to vegs to get it tasting close to meat cheap or not id skip it

[@vatsilvsgi8606]

@@ivannightly1919 that's assuming you're in a place you CAN raise chickens. Urban apartment dwellers don't really have...yards.

[@nntflow7058]

Lab grown meat gonna be their problem in the future. PETA endorses lab grown meat, and it tasted like expensive high quality meat from premium farm. There's no market for vegan meat after this.

[@pjschmid2251]

In addition to the price, the problem I always had with it is it just made no sense to me to replace meat with yet another ultra-processed food. The last thing I want to add to my life is more ultra-processed food made out of a list of ingredients that I would never normally eat.

[@VinnieGer]

Beyond Meat’s revised burger formula has tried very hard to make it with ingredients that are less, lab-soundy. Personally I like it.

[@catbat06]

I eat doritos here and there. I think it's ok to eat an ultra processed burger here and there. This will not be the tipping point for my health.

[@sino_diogenes]

it's important not to equate processed = unhealthy. Certainly, more processed foods are usually less healthy, but that isn't necessarily the case.

[@agisler87]

​@@sino_diogenes I can't think of a single processed food that is healthy. So it is important to equate processed as unhealthy .

[@growtocycle6992]

​@@agisler87tofu? Lentil dhal? The truth is, cooking is good for nutrition, and preservation is necessary for sustainability.

[@Homested_Happenings]

I never trust a "celebrity" recommendation

specially if is kardashian

[@Zett76]

Why should you? 😀 But that's also no reason to distrust the product.

[@isbestlizard]

Right? I hope he was being ironic about celebrities 'seal of approval'. All celebrities need to approve something is a sufficient amount of money.

[@Shark-pj8in]

Frfr

[@Shark-pj8in]

​@Zett76 they never said that. They just said they don't trust their "recommendation" meaning they still don't know if it's a good product.

[@stefannilsson2406]

Price is not an issue with plant based meat. The ingredients cost almost nothing. They could sell it for half the price and still have larger profit margins than the normal meat industry. They just want to have their RnD costs recovered as quickly as possible, but end up shooting themselves in the foot.

[@GabrielPettier]

Economies of scale are important, even if you have cheap costs, producing enough so you can get into supermarkets, but also keeping packaging, marketing, advertisement, distribution, etc, costs in control, is hard, in the end, ingredients, or even R&D (of the core product) might not be the major cost factors.

[@JewTube001]

just sell it for free then. great business model

[@stefannilsson2406]

​@@JewTube001 No, "selling" products for free is not a great business model... It's a pretty bad one...

[@Kisel228-fp8iz]

@@JewTube001 Yes that's clearly what he said... you do realize you earn more profits if 10 million people buy your $2 reasonably priced meat alternative product than if 300,000 hipsters buy your overpriced $6 virtue signalling product?

[@hclyrics]

You forget how heavily the animal agriculture industry is subsidized. And the majority of seats on food boards have strong industry ties. Plant-based meat is indeed less costly, and it will only get cheaper once the demand goes up and the meat/dairy/egg industries lose subsidies.

[@ParanoidPixel]

The cost is too damn high! I don't understand how you have a plant based product that is made in half the time with less than half the resources it takes to make meat burgers... and then costs twice as much.

[@artless3438]

Subsidies :) for beef.

[@craftsmanceramics8653]

@@artless3438 so we should stop subsidizing meat and dairy industry and let the poor starve? I agree~

[@neko0my0cat]

@@craftsmanceramics8653 no maby we should start subsidising the meat and dairy alternatives

[@craftsmanceramics8653]

@neko0my0cat you don't really understand why we subsidize farmers do you? It's ok to be ignorant~

[@rockets4kids]

That doesn't stop people from buying expensive sneakers. In fact, plenty of people will buy things *because* they are more expensive.

[@charlotte4112]

The problem with beyond was the insane price, the problem with other alternatives was the long list of ingredients you can't pronounce, the tonne of sodium and how this is just processed food. I've been vegetarian for 15 years, so it wasn't a matter of meat vs non-meat in my case, it was "do I cough up 7 CAD for 2 patties or do I spend 2 hours in my kitchen making a batch of patties that I can then freeze for a fraction of the price?"

[@nata6025]

I missed the memo somewhere, I fully thought this product was for vegans. As a meat consumer, there's no reason for me to pay more for vegan meat when I can buy real meat for less

[@Park_Place]

Not only that, but you have a larger choice of foods when using real meat. You can make steak, barbecued brisket, al pastor tacos, stir fry, carne asada, roast beef, and beef stew. And those are just beef dishes, you can also make lamb kabobs, stir fry, rotisserie chicken, and so much more. With plant-based meat you're limited to dishes with ground beef like shepherd's pie, burgers, and lasagna. That sounds good on paper but eventually you'll get bored of the texture.

[@nickthaskater]

No reason, aside from gross animal cruelty and the disease and pollution that results from industrialized meat production.

[@cliffordbradford8910]

No, the people running the companies said repeatedly that it was for us omnivores because whichever way you looked at it (from the saving the earth, less cruelty to animals, or plain make $$$ POV) the market of vegetarians/vegans was too small to justify the product development investment. Plus those people don't want a product that tastes like meat because they literally don't like the taste of meat. My GF at the time was vegetarian and she didn't want it.

[@Kewrock]

@@nickthaskater I'll give you the gross cruelty. That was the ONLY reason I was a vegetarian for 7+ years. The global warming from methane was laughable. As far as the pollution, mainly the slaughterhouse run-off into the streams and watertables. That can and should be easily regulated at little additional cost. When I was a vegetarian, I always hated the typical pink haired people associated with it. And people just assuming I agreed with their Leftist politics.

[@shikikywketsuki9892]

​@@Park_Placeclearly you know nothing about plant based meat if you think it only gets "minced meat" literally every meat dish now can be made with a plant based alternative.

[@ichadc]

People often forget that the meat industry isn't just about the meat itself. There are whole other spinoffs like leather(Plastic/polyurethane(PU) shoes don't last), gelatin(used in a lot of things, not just jello), and even paint pigment(called bone black or ivory black). The meat industry has multiple outputs, faux meat only has a single output.

[@drjekelmrhyde]

Blood and bone meal are natural fertilizers. In fact some who are vegan have no clue if those plants they like are raised using two meat by-products.

[@dv.c3700]

So what’s your point here? 1. Your shoe ‘fact’ is an opinion & even if we entertain it, perhaps the solution would be finding/making a similar material…yknow like how humans do/have done. 2: name the other uses for gelatin & I’ll tell you the 200 other ways you can replace those & not notice a thing 3. “Faux meat” should only have one use like ?? There’s nothing wrong w/ being nervous about march of time & new solutions but I feel like digging our heals WHILE actively admonishing new solutions is exactly what is holding us back as a species?

[@clarencetan7126]

@@dv.c3700 His point is just basic economics, he didn't imply that fake meat was bad. When you raise a cow you can earn profit on multiple fronts so beef gets cheaper, but every dollar spent on fake meat can only get return from fake meat. That's why the price is tough to cut down.

[@crash6442]

​@@dv.c3700The point is cows are more than just meat and make a myriad of other products. No matter how you spin it, creating new materials will absolutely create more pollution than just using the leather from a cow that is already being killed for its meat.

[@its_clean]

@@dv.c3700 Even as a meat-eater, I'm a big supporter of faux meat/alternatives as a (probably) sustainable and (hopefully someday) affordable option that will allow people to continue enjoying familiar types of food while reducing the mountainous volumes of meat we consume today. That being said, the benefits of leather are inarguable and there exists no synthetic alternative I'm aware of that delivers all the same properties in a single material. Leather is abrasion-resistant and puncture-resistant, somehow simultaneously water-resistant and breathable and thermally insulating, flexible and cushioning, heat-resistant and flame-retardant. It is cuttable, stitchable, moldable, stretchable, and can be easily modified or repaired with only basic hand tools. The same single piece of leather can be stretched and molded to form both the rigid toe box and flexible vamp of a shoe. Over time, a leather glove will mold to the hand, a shoe will mold to the foot, and a jacket will mold to the body, offering a fit and comfort that are unachievable even with custom tailoring. Virtually all leather products can be manufactured and maintained entirely by hand, with no need for large, heavy, complicated, or expensive machines that apply heat or pressure. There's no other material in the world- vinyl, polyester, laminate, composite, nothing- that can do ALL those things at the same time.

[@briangammage5351]

"If you aren't able to feed yourself, you don't give a shit about the environment" Quote of the century!!!! Thank you for your great videos!!!!!

[@richardlinares6314]

And if these people were really trying to save money they'd be living off cheap AF beans, pulses... These comments always ignore that meat consumption is always incredibly low when countries are poorer, then explode as they become wealthier.

[@deRykcihC]

only problem is they are way more expensive than real meat, why would anyone hurt their wallets unless you're pretty rich already

[@Chicago48]

If you're a vegan you don't care about the price. It's healthier for me because I get indigestion eating meat.

[@dismurrart6648]

More expensive and less nutritious than even other vegan options.

[@maxheim3802]

It can be quite cheap here in germany. E.g. you can get half a kilo of meat substitutes for just 3-4 €. Its nice to have for sometimes when you cba to cook something and just want some junkfood. It doesnt replace a varied diet in any way, just like a diet consisting of 50 % meat isnt really healthy

[@mjc0961]

@maxheim3802 What? Are you saying you eat raw fake meat?

[@maxheim3802]

@@mjc0961 What i mean is prepare a complex/full meal. With some vegan nuggets i can just throw em into a pan for a few minutes not having to do shit

[@theod0r]

My local (rural!) grocery store has an entire isle dedicated to meat-replacement products, and it's been only increasing in size for the last couple of years. A lot of products are also often times sold out. One of the top meat producers in germany, Rügenwalder, has been selling meat-replacement stuff for 10 years now and they just announced that they see more sales in meat-replacement than meat. The industry is fine, it's just 2 companies that are being weird.

[@Chicago48]

I eat meatless all the time.

[@FutureProofTV]

That's great to hear - it's really cool to see meat alternatives becoming increasingly popular and companies still coming out with new products along that vein

[@Masami01]

Completely random, but I absolutely LOVE Rügenwalder's vegan Teewurst :D And yes, in my country, one of the biggest grocery stores just launched their own store-brand vegan line and the demand is super high, also because it is cheaper than the Beyond products.

[@CArnoldi1]

Rügenwalders meat replacement stuff really is pretty good.

[@niestetennajn3456]

the same in my country! It is hard to say, how many people are vegetarian or vegan (one research says 7%, the other 16%), but even in smallest cities there are tasty meat-alternatives in stores, gluten-free diet is also more available :) I feel that Europe is veg-friendly :)

[@Aoskar95]

Honestly I think if they hadn't marketed themselves as a replacement for meat but as an alternative to eat a more balanced diet with more plants that you have once or twice a week, it could have worked

[@KathyXie]

In some asian countries like Taiwan, Vietnam and Thailand, we have for several decades vegetarian beef, pork, fish, chicken, lamb, duck, oysters, eel, basically any meat, for the most part the flavours are quite close and is not expensive at all. I don't understand why impossible and beyond created so much hype.

[@oldcowbb]

the asian vegetarian meats don't taste like meat at all, it's just a tasty soy product, have you tried impossible and beyond meat?

[@octochan]

They gotta have hype because they have a lot of big investors, and investors expect big returns on their investments

[@JasminUwU]

​@@oldcowbb it doesn't have to taste exactly the same, just like different types of meats don't have to taste exactly the same as each other to still be called meat.

[@ClintonHuynh]

A lot of the asian dishes replicating meat is trying to replicate the flavour the meat holds in the dish since we put less emphasis on the raw meat flavour, moreso the dishes exotic flavours. Those asian flavours is not the texture or flavour one would get with a burger or sausage that is a western dish, where its more reliant on the original meat flavour with little to none seasoning. So its just a huge compatibility issue and society's existing acceptance that Beyond and Impossible tried capitalizing on.

[@catbat06]

yeah the vegetarian faux duck i get at the chinese supermarket is incredible.

[@ayaderg]

honestly I think the biggest problem with vegan and vegetarian diet promotion is that they focus on meat replacements, rather than focusing on the fact that other ingredients can be extremely delicious too in their own ways

[@dismurrart6648]

I think another problem is that people don't pay attention to their own macros. If you go vegan and don't get enough protein, you will start to crave it. When people try to convert you, they focus on taste, and no one will switch if the food tastes bad, but they never factor in protein. There was a period where jackfruit was trendy and they'd literally just tell people to use it just like meat. The problem being that a serving has 3 grams of protein. If you make spaghetti with red sauce and jackfruit and a little nutritional yeast, that's almost exclusively carbs.

[@Mystro256]

I think a lot of people are turned off from beans and peas, which are important veggie protein sources. I've had a few people shocked that I eat beans every single day, but no one questions eating beef every single day.

[@Default78334]

As an example, tons of Chinese tofu preparations are nonvegetarian and are delicious because they aren't trying to pretend that tofu is meat.

[@endless_puns]

I think it largely depends on culture. In some nations' cuisines, there are established traditions for cooking vegetarian/vegan dishes without necessarily labeling them as such. E.g. beans, lentils, peas, grains, etc. can be the center of the dish. However, in a lot of (especially Western/North European) cultures, those traditions do not exist anymore, so people are scrambling to replace the meat with something else that resembles it rather than rethinking their entire way of cooking.

[@RaisonLychi]

Veggie burgers are such a scarce alternative 😢 the gross fake meat stuff completely overtook the non meat options.

[@webxorcist]

Meat is super healthy. Saying otherwise is the real insanity.

[@wollahmeh8823]

real meat is healthy, sure. But the meat from cows that are locked in tiny cages, fed with low quality garbage, and are pumped full of hormones might not be very healthy. And i haven't even talked about how the meat is processed so it can be preserved on the shelves for prolonged periods of time. Sadly real meat is very expensive nowadays and even butchers sell garbage quite often now.

[@bkohatl]

Only if they were inexpensive, but they decided it was more expensive than beef.

[@lycanhd]

Sugar free products cost more also.

[@deRykcihC]

@@lycanhd i think cuz cane sugar or corn sugar is insanely cheap and has huge markup

[@BenvanBroekhuijsen]

Yes they are more expensive, but that is because of scale AND meat and dairy is heavily subsidized. It however is not healty to eat, just eat vegetables. It is amazing what you can achieve with veggies and spices and some creativity.

[@blunderingfool]

@@BenvanBroekhuijsen Like a vitamin deficiency because the human body needs a vitamin usually only found in the livers of other mammals.

[@theod0r]

if meat products weren't so heavily subsidized you'd pay out the ass for them too.

[@gloxton]

Didn't realise how expensive food is in the USA. You showed 8 frozen burgers for $11.00. The equivalent here in the UK (from my local supermarket) is $4.49.

[@silentdrew7636]

Give it time

[@kevinandrew_]

This channel is Canadian so converted from CAD it's not as far off as it would've been if you converted from USD (but yes, still more expensive)

[@Avruthlelbh]

The price of food has literally quadrupled in the past few years alone, without exaggeration.

[@rusnyg]

These are Canadian dollars-around $8 USD for nearly 1 kg of beef burgers. That seems pretty cheap to me.

[@kjadan101]

It depends on which part of North America. Britain’s people live close to Britain’s farms-less refrigeration & transport cost. Many North Americans in cities pay more for food because they’re so far from the source.

[@EvilParagon4]

Problem with vegan meat is it can't be _just meat._ If you want a steak, or a chop, or ribs, vegan meat just can't do that. All it can make is emulations of processed meat. Vegan meat can never win if the market it's trying to capture (meat eaters) aren't even able to find 1:1 replacement products. Sure you can probably make a good vegan meatloaf, but can you make a good vegan lamb roast? Absolutely not. These are not exchangable products.

[@btd6vids]

> can you make a vegan lamb roast? This might be easier than you think, depending on your standards. It's relatively simple to make something like this out of seitan (wheat protein). It's not going to taste like meat, but you can make it out of real minimally processed ingredients (pretty much just wheat flour, spices, veggie broth, and beans). The gluten proteins form long strands that have a similar texture to meat fibers. It's like bread that is 80-90% gluten instead of what it normally is (8-10%). The amount of vegan meat *alternatives* is more extensive than you'd think. And what I mean by that is things you can put into traditionally meat based dishes, where it's going to be different but it's good in a different way. As an example, bbq jackfruit can go in a lot of sandwiches instead of pulled pork. It doesn't taste exactly the same but it's an alternative option that's pretty good. Anyway, if you're up for it I recommend trying to make seitan once or twice. The biggest benefit is that it's actually super cheap for the amount of protein you get and surprisingly easy to make.

[@fricki1997]

Echoing what many others said in the comments: The problem with meat replacements is that they're sold as a lifestyle product, not baseline food, and accordingly there's a hefty premium attached to it. You can also tell by how it's almost always organic as well, further driving up the production and sale price. Give me a decent portion of it for 2-3€ for and I'll buy it. But not if meat, which still tastes better or at the very lowest as good as vegan options to me, is noticeably cheaper. Producing meat is a huge energy waste, something like 90% or more of the animal's food input gets wasted, so why do we pay more if that step is skipped? It's a major part of the ongoing climate crisis, so honestly it should receive the extra funds the meat industry is currently getting.

[@EricAnimeFreak]

Meat replacements are ultra processed, add carbs and sugar... Producing meat is essential as animal based products have the most macro nutrients of all foods. Look at nutrition labels if you don't believe me. There are no essential carbs or sugar, you can go your entire life without eating them and be perfectly healthy. As for waste, only 16% of animal based products get thrown out a year, 40% of plant based products are thrown out a year. When we farm plants they deplete the soil of nutrients and require lots of fertilizers, pesticides, and machinery to harvest. Over time this can lead to permanent ecological damage. Animals replenish and nourish the land, while also adding back vital nutrients to the soil and restoring the soil ecology. Plants that are allowed to decompose also add emissions which are conveniently ignored when checking plat agriculture effect on climate change. People claim that deforestation leads to more CO2, which is true, but then they blame animal livestock towards the co2 from the trees. This is bad math, the trees would always eventually end back up in the air as co2 with or without the help of cows, unless you took the trees and buried them deep under ground and waited millions of years for them to turn into oil. People also claim that animal livestock produce methane, they do, but methane only lasts 12 years before it breaks up in atmosphere. Methane can also be produced by humans. Humans on a higher plant based diet produce far more, nay several times more methane then those eating a high or all meat based diet. So your farting and producing the methane instead of the animals. Also the manure used to grow your plants count against the meat industries emissions rather then the plants emissions. That makes no sense since the plants won't grow without it. When calculating emissions for plants they will often lay the blame for emissions created by the production of manure and fertilizers used for plant agriculture on animal agriculture. It may indeed be bad that livestock uses more water then plant agriculture, but at the end of the day, the H2O water matter is never destroyed, the animals pee and it is returned to the natural water table while providing nutrients to the grass those very animals eat. So the water concern is irrelevant. Now both mono cropping and meat factory farming need to be stopped to save our planet, our health, and out future. The focus should be on sustainable regenerative cyclical farming. Currently, the U.S. government spends $38 billion each year to subsidize meat and dairy products, The US federal government spends more than $20 billion a year on subsidies for farm businesses. About 39 percent of the nation's 2.1 million farms receive subsidies, with the lion's share of the handouts going to the largest producers of corn, soybeans, wheat, cotton, and rice. That's not too much of a difference.

[@agisler87]

Producing meat is not an energy waste. Grass fed animals with rotational grazing is better for the environment. What's even wrist for the environment is people being sick from a plant based diet What is bad for the event are monoculture crops.

[@theEDMdragon]

@@agisler87bro failed biology in school

[@theEDMdragon]

The major players in the meat industry were definitely lobbying for funds and laws in their favor

[@growtocycle6992]

​@@agisler87 calories per hectare / per gallon of water... 🤦 Grass feed sounds lovely, but if we tried to feed the planet grass fed meat, lots of people would starve

[@grantmillard8387]

I'm not a fan of being on the bleeding edge of any product that is going into my body. I'll let the first few iterations of the product come out and wait a few years to see if people start dropping dead, forming polyps on their stomach linings or growing a new set of eyeballs before I become interested. We've had too many incidents of things coming out (Looking at you vapes!) as safer, better and healthier and turning out to be a NEW form of health risk in their own way.

[@tomesplin4130]

I eat grass fed beef, locally produced seasonal vegetables. Highly processed foods aren’t getting into my shopping basket, no matter the price.

[@jessip8654]

Yeah it was the price for me. At my grocery store 2 beyond burgers are $10. I can get 10 beef or chicken patties for that price.

[@Brukner841]

you can not eat cruelly sourced animal products you know, sure, mock meats are expensive, but you don't have to eat them.

[@Betweoxwitegan]

​@@Brukner841You cannot realistically expect people to pay 500% more just to not eat an animal, that's rich people type shit. The government's job is to make the best option the most convenient/cheapest option and it has not done that thus far.

[@Brukner841]

@@Betweoxwitegan yes and you don't have to eat either animals or this.

[@alexanderrobins7497]

The only time I buy plant-based meats now are when they are on sale at Costco (about $1 per patty), then I stock up until the next sale or I run out of freezer space. I would eat them more often if I weren't a broke college student needing to use food banks.

[@ComotoseOnAnime]

@@Brukner841 Meat is the cheapest source of food needed to sustain a person among all other sources. You *can* get what you need from non processed, non-meat sources but you would need to buy and eat an order of magnitude more of a non-meat source to do so. A person could survive long term on minimal amounts of meat (So long as you made sure to ear at least some organ meats and the like), a person could not survive for very long on minimal amounts of fruits, vegetables or fungi. The answer to unethical animal harvesting practices, worse and worse quality of meats, and other industry woes, isn't "Buy meat alternatives" it's, if able, raise your own meat production. Raising your own chickens, keeping your own milk cows or goats(Goats preferable as they're generally easier and cheaper to manage), heck meat rabbits are some of the best and easiest meat animals price for pound per land area that you can raise and are almost completely sustainable in a tiny backyard garden. If you raised meat rabbits, chickens and kept a milk goat, you could have meat, eggs, milk and cheese for very little total area required to raise them, combined with simple mulch gardens to grow potatoes and other root vegetables, as well as a small assortment of leafy greens and a small mushroom cultivation setup, you could have enough food to be almost completely sustainable for 3/4 of the year for a family of four on perhaps a quarter acre of land. We need to move back towards ensuring our own food supply, that, above all else will ensure ethical practices so long as the person practicing it is ethical, which if they aren't then clearly ethical practices was never the point in the first place as they're not practicing what they preach.

[@donariadtn]

I feel like another miss is the entire term 'fake meat' or 'replacement meat'. It really invites too much comparison, and that in turn feeds into those whole 'Do you want to be part of Party A or Party B'. Framing it as just another option would do better to make people open up to the idea of plant based proteins. It's like 'vegetarian beef stew' just... isn't. Doesn't mean it's a bad stew, but it is not a beef stew.

[@hynnow18]

While I agree with you, I also know that calling something “soy protein isolate stew” or “gluten-ball stew” invites even more complaints

[@saskia9720]

I agree. I've tried lots of different meat alternatives and the worst ones are that directly compare themselves to meat. Veggie bacon is terrible, but smoked tofu is lovely.

[@phoebehill953]

I was told about a vegan restaurant in Flagstaff and I was eager to eat there. It turned out there was nothing on the menu but fake meat! It’s like they never heard of a vegetable.

[@musingwithreba9667]

Exactly! Why not just call it what it is, vegetable stew!?

[@hazar6662]

​@@musingwithreba9667because I don't want to eat something that has vegan meat in it when I buy vegetable stew. If I buy a vegetable stew, I want a vegetable stew. If I buy a vegan beef stew, I want a stew that has vegan beef in it. Doesn't seem hard to understand?

[@AlanTuringWannabe]

A big problem is that it's processed to hell. We need to move away from overly processed foods.

[@Brukner841]

the big problem is people don't understand the term properly, all the ingredients are good, for the most part, healthier than a beef burger for sure.

[@richardlinares6314]

What's in meat: Veins, Arteries, *Fecal Matter* , Fat, *Antibiotic Resistant Superbugs/Bacteria, Parasites. Salmonella, E. Coli, Heavy Metals(eg lead)* , Prozac(chicken), Blood, *Pesticides* , Bone, Connective Tissue, *Ractopamine (banned in 160 other countries), Tenia Saginata (Beef Tapeworm)* , chlorine, sodium nitrite, *amoxicillin, Erythromycin* , glycerin, *stress hormones* , Sodium-Oclanoale, polysorbate, ammonia, potassium octanoate, carbon monoxide, *Ampicillin, penicillin* , cetylpyndinium, *Progesterone* , Zeranol, Sulfamethazine, *Calf. Testosterone* , Melengestrol Acetate, Tilmicosin, Octanoic Acid, Oxytetracycline, Propylene Glycol, Sulfadimethoxine, Enrofloxacin, Florfenicol, Ceftiofur Sodium, Tylosin, Ceftifur Hydrocloride, *Estradiol* , Sulfamethazine, Cholesterol, Trentbolone Acetate Plus IGF-1 in the meat feeds cancer. And what happens if the animal has cancer and the meat isn't cooked completely? We do know animal proteins in our blood can be attacked by our immune system. This manifests as inflammation and rheumatoid arthitis. We know animal protein is also unique in that it damages kidneys. And let's not forget the whole reason dairy is pasturized: Blood, Puss, Piss, Feces...

[@richardlinares6314]

@@Brukner841 Yes, already multiple studies showing they're less bad than animal meat. Hilarious how people scream about processed mock meats... then turn around and shovel ice cream, pastries, junk food... down their throats.

[@Brukner841]

@@richardlinares6314 yeah they're all so careless and ignorant.

[@KelwinTorcque]

Exactly, but people like to be screwed by Big Food.

[@Emmuzka]

Finland got their own fake meat craze a few years ago with pulled oats, an oat product that resembles pulled pork in texture. It, too, died down, but people are slowly taken textured pea and soy protein as a part of their cooking. They are a lot cheaper than the cheapest meat, shelf stable and easy to use instead of ground meat. Of course they don't taste or feel like meat, but they don't try to. Cheap, convenient, variable and not modified in a way that you don't understand. I think that products like that are the future of the meat alternative industry, not the luxury items.

[@mpo48]

helvetin masentavaa että tätä paskaa on niin paljon suomen myymälöissä myös. itse pakottaisin kaikki ihmiset syömään lihaa. ympäristö voi painua helvettiin kun mulla on nälkä.

[@kale_chippy]

I can TOTALLY see something like that taking off in the US, especially with the rise of alternative milks including oat, and the marketing of convenience meals like overnight oats. I've also seen a lot more creators making videos of how to use soy protein to make imitation chicken. I think American consumers would feel a lot more comfortable with something that is both cheaper (which oats are) and a recognizable ingredient (which impossible meat is not).

People need to have woken up by now and be reading the crap that's in these foods or welcome obesity, cancers,type2 diabetes, etc etc. Soy protein is one of the worst! Cheap just means pay higher medical bills..

[@rachelhsyoo6551]

My family's first experience with meat replacments was so horrible - had diarrhea for disgusting tasted burger....... We decided just eat less meat, but never eat the meat replacement.

[@matthewjohnson3656]

Yeah some brands are garbage. I won’t eat any replacements that are soy based. They taste so bad. I really like morning star.

[@suen5006]

Try Boca burgers, they are really good.

[@matthewjohnson3656]

@@suen5006 thanks for the recommend! Morningstar buffalo chicken Pattie’s are my favorite right now

[@thehumanpulse2]

Similar experience, but our bodies got used to it over a few days/weeks. Well worth it, to avoid cancer and heart diseases!

[@SebastianTheGreat]

I personally don’t like the fact that my plant-based burger “bleeds”

[@alexayres6812]

I had to stop eating Beyond Meat burgers because a) they’re twice as expensive as the meat option and b) my digestion can’t handle how highly processed veg substitutes are. Which is a shame, because I actually prefer the taste to beef burgers.

[@MissRora]

I've cut out beef, but I make my own turkey burgers. Just ground turkey, bread crumbs and a little liquid smoke. Or like Levi mentioned, black bean burgers are a great option... just be careful about eating too many if you have IBS (I speak from experience).

[@alexayres6812]

@@MissRora haha yeah I definitely can’t handle black beans, but the turkey burger sounds great! Thanks 😄

[@HUYI1]

Enjoy your high processed slop! Next you should try gruel! You are poor! Eat this crap!

[@xXNekou]

The irony is that I've been vegetarian for 11-12 years and if a fake meat tastes *too much* like real meat it makes me disgusted and I don't want to eat it, and I'm sure there are more people like me out there

[@ninjanerdstudent6937]

Agreed.

[@lunaris69]

dont worry, beyond meat is a sloppy gross mess filled with more oil and sodium than an actual burger, i'm not vegitarian and got sick after eating one too, its not just you. mushroom burgers are better tasting.

[@GabrielPettier]

There are certainly others, but there are many times more meat eaters than vegetarians, so it made sense for them to optimize for that market, rather than targeting people who didn't need them to eat less meat.

[@mattymattffs]

Honestly these products aren't really for you or me. They're for someone being told to cut back by their doctor. Or just want to reduce their meat intake. But it only works when it's priced the same or cheaper

[@annaselbdritt7916]

There definitely are. People are vocal about this sentiment often. However it’s not to say it’s the majority of non-meat eaters. I see just as many expressing the opposite. I’ve been vegan for 9 years, and I very much love Beyond Meat and other faux meats. I’m really happy I can get something that’s like what I used to like the taste of. I will never eat real meat again, because I don’t want to.

[@SangoProductions213]

I literally got a free back of "impossible" chicken patties. Cooked them up... Ate them... Yeah. It's basically like some low quality chicken patty that I would have bought in my college days. Except the bag had like 6 patties in it, and the tag read 6 dollars. It was spongy and not an unpleasant sensation to eat, but definitely not pleasant either.

[@nampyeon635]

I've never tried the chicken. Their main products, the burgers, taste really good though, despite the tuna-y smell and aftertaste.

[@Julia-dy6ov]

as a vegan who is price sensitive and doesn't like meat texture, making your own bean burgers is the best option

[@dismurrart6648]

As a meat eater, bean burgers are delicious. Idk why everyone sleeps on them. It's objectively healthy too unless you're allergic to beans or something.

[@speedracer2please]

Agreed, veganism is only expensive if you insist on replacing animal products. Rice with vegetables is way cheaper and easier than just about any meat dish.

[@bellablue5285]

Have to admit, found an intriguing black bean burger, and honestly, I wouldn't call them replacements for the real thing, but I think I make the black bean version far more often.

[@mqb3gofjzkko7nzx38]

Even the frozen black bean burgers at the store are cheaper than the fake meat burgers.

[@latristessdurera8763]

I’m more of a mushroom burger gal

[@izzaazzurri]

As Indonesian that eats tempe everyday, i never get the hype arround fake meat 🤣🤣🤣

[@thefaboo]

Burger King replaced their veggie patty with Impossible Burger and it was very disappointing 😅

[@AlanMars]

I also don't get why people feel the need to eat burgers etc. There are so many delicious vegan proteins that are already cheap.

[@Master_Roach]

​@@AlanMars tasty, convenient, not abusive.

[@balsalmalberto8086]

@@AlanMars Because they are hedonist. easy, fast and cheap fatty and salty food = fulfills the addiction.

[@vtheory7531]

I’m Indonesian as well. Love tempe, it’s delicious. But it just doesn’t hit the same spot as meat. Some fake meats like Impossible does taste pretty convincingly like meat if you season it right. I also care about protein and calorie amounts and fake meat has better ratios of these than tempe.

[@SolidGround-qg8ur]

*Larry Burkett's book on "Giving and Tithing" drew me closer to God and helped my spirituality. 2020 was a year I literally lived it. I cashed in my life savings and gave it all away. My total giving amounted to 40,000 dollars. Everyone thought I was delusional. Today, 1 receive 85,000 dollars every two months. I have a property in Calabasas, CA, and travel a lot. God has promoted me more than once and opened doors for me to live beyond my dreams. God kept to his promises to and for me*

[@Hannahmiller545]

There's wonder working power in following Kingdom principles on giving and tithing. Hallelujah!

[@zackeryforeman]

But then, how do you get all that in that period of time? What is it you do please, mind sharing?

[@SolidGround-qg8ur]

It is the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US and abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus

[@SolidGround-qg8ur]

And thanks to my co-worker (Michael) who suggested Ms Susan Jane Christy

[@Jnrbailey]

How can I start this digital market, any guidelines and how can I reach out to her?

[@ttopero]

As a plant-focused person who occasionally eats flesh protein, once in a while I’ll try one of those processed or prepared vegan-oriented foods and more often than not I end up with a desire to just eat the original components in a way that preserves their unique qualities & characteristics. While I’ve been impressed with the taste & texture of both fake meats, I’m disgusted by the ingredients list. I’ll take the highest quality version of the real animal & appreciate it’s authenticity when I do consume it.

[@Llortnerof]

I'm more the other way around, but still, if i want something vegetarian or vegan i look for a recipe that doesn't use meat/animal products and do that instead of some highly processed replacement product. There's plenty of great dishes to be had. I'd rather they just require that meat products must follow higher standards and eat it more rarely than pretend. There's a lot of laziness and virtue signalling in this whole fake meat market, rather than accepting that we will have to change as the world does.

[@WowIndescribable]

Here in Ireland, plant-based alternatives are available everywhere, even at McDonald's, Burger King, Subway, etc. And huge plant-based sections in all the supermarkets. It's awesome.

[@payeyogarcia1906]

Same pricing?

[@GabrielPettier]

@@payeyogarcia1906 I don't really look at beef price anymore, as i'm vegan (and wealthy enough to not keep a close eye on groceries prices), but went onto the website of the local market here in the Netherlands (Albert Heijn), and while beef (from ground, to steak) seem to go from 15 to 30€/kg, the cheapest vegan "ground beef" equivalent is at 17.50€/kg, and steaks go from 22 to 35€/kg, so not exactly the same, but not so far. The NL is very much a cow country too.

[@emilymisty798]

@@payeyogarcia1906 I would say very similar, I had a mcplant meal and I think it was similar price to the meat one and it was yummy :D.

[@WowIndescribable]

@@payeyogarcia1906- I’ve not done any price comparison as such, but generally seems to be on par with other good quality meat things.

[@retrogradepink]

I was so pleasantly surprised when I was in London in 2001 at how much vegetarian food was available at the average pub, and how good it was!

[@zzzzoot]

I bought some fake meats when they were new, but stopped as soon as I learned how processed and artificial the ingredients were.

[@nampyeon635]

Bingo. This is the real story. Most of the people interested in this market also care about organic and all-natural ingredients. I still love Impossible and Beyond, but my wife doesn't want me to buy them anymore because of the ingredients.

[@jsmit9484]

Ah yes, so let's get some meat from animals that were stuffed with terrible food, antibiotics and supplements. So much better for you! Artificial doesn't necessarily mean bad. And all things are better in small amounts.

[@biancalucia8388]

Not all meat is factory farmed.

[@Warlord0786]

@@jsmit9484 Absolutely agree, lets go eat a science experiment rather than an egg.

[@jsmit9484]

@Warlord0786 A bit of an oversimplification and exaggeration isn't it? Every ingredient in those burgers has been widely used and integrated into things we eat all day every day. Combining regular ingredients doesn't suddenly make them go funking nuclear.

[@wkgmathguy218]

At the end of the day, I don't want to pay more for something that doesn't taste as good.

[@anniestumpy9918]

Yeah, same here. I regularly buy ground-beef substitute that is a bit cheaper than the organic meat I buy otherwise but, I think, still more expensive than non-organic meat. For me, it tastes ok but still is nowhere near "real" meat in terms of texture, taste and nutritional composition. So, I don't know what product he's talking about in the video that's exactly as good in every aspect as real meat, but apparently it's not available here in Germany.

[@mildlydispleased3221]

People buy it because they care about animal welfare or the environment, not for the taste.

[@wkgmathguy218]

@@mildlydispleased3221 Mmmmmm fried chicken for dinner >:)

[@BlakeTheSnake98]

@@mildlydispleased3221 If vegans cared about animals then why don't they have a farm and take care of animals instead of acting like there better then everyone?

[@mildlydispleased3221]

@@BlakeTheSnake98 What are you on about?

[@Fudgeey]

As someone who can't eat beef, I Love meat alternatives. I clicked on the vid because of the bankruptcy thumbnail, it would have broken my heart to have Beyond Steak ripped away from me. It's priced basically the same as real steak, and it gives me some semblance of red meat, I can't live without it.

[@neptunite5973]

It's so nice you put your sources in the corner of the video!

[@skeinofadifferentcolor2090]

A huge blind spot that these plant-based companies have is whether or not the consumer actually has any allergies or sensitivities to any of the ingredients. When you buy straight up ground beef you know that generally there is only ground beef in that package, but when it comes to plant-based and people with a variety of allergies it makes it that much more difficult of a sell to consumers when the ingredient list is 12 items long. I for one am very sensitive to soy, I'm allergic to coconuts, allergic to avocado, and I generally do not do well with anything that is seed derived. Coconuts, soy, and oftentimes avocado are some of the primary ingredients for these plant-based alternatives. So in their mission to get us away from eating meat they are cutting out an entire population of people who actually have allergies and sensitivities to many of the ingredients in their product. Furthermore, my husband and I have spoken about this extensively, but if you're going to go vegan or vegetarian why are you trying to imitate the very product you're trying not to eat? That's just a very bizarre paradox.

[@logicalspaghetti]

To the last point, imitation burgers allow for you to transition over with minimal culture-shock and change-of-habit, as you can still participate in cook-outs and other social events, and have a similar meal plan without much effort.

[@honeybee347]

I wonder how well fake meat sells in asia where there is already a pretty extensive variety and history of meat subsitute recipes. Having had both a beyond meat burger and eaten fakemeat asian foods, asia has better seasoning and better texture and i am guessing more willingness to accept new textures.

[@TasteofTaboo]

it is maybe for people who are buying this awful super expensive western stuff which is also called tofu but has nothing in common with the asian tofu products?

[@rhapout]

I'd say it's fine, it's not as big as beyond and impossible and it also had a bit of slump, but it's still there. Asia is just starting to gain more awareness about the term vegan.

[@baneofbanes]

I used to work and a grocery store, and the main problem with plant based alternative to animal products is price. Until that changes animal products will be preferred.

[@Klaevin]

remember people. eat ze bugs, rent a pod and download your ads and put a smile on your face!

[@SusanChristmas]

the people in power will never eat ze bugs that's for the peasants

[@stilnaughttelling6587]

@@SusanChristmas until the peasants eat the people in power

[@btd6vids]

Never understood how people believe the CEOs of these companies (that are vegans) totally want you to eat bugs (which are animals)

[@VexModel]

"to meat that demand..." I see what you did there. 😂

[@ShardulIyer]

I actually had this conversation couple of times - Me as a flexitrian, require a mix of plant, dairy and meat everyday. Now do note that my dairy & meat consumption is actually like 50% (dairy - 30, meat - 20) and plant filling the rest. Also my meat is most often chicken, egg, shrimp/pawn, fish and occasional goat. I have tried buffalo but I seldomly use it. Overall, my meat sources are small-medium sizes and sourced locally. Same with veggies - i go for local varieties and will only occasionally get an exotic type. Now here's my take on plant & lab meat - A. Plant substitute is actually good but it depends solely on who you are targeting. Plant meats target audiences aren't completely wrong. Afterall much like meds, titration is important like a person can substitute the real meat with plant meat as costs & consumption offset eachother. B. Plant meat is NOT healthy always & tbh nothing is if you consume too much. But the catch with plant meat is that to get that texture, you are going to ultra process the plant matter & that too is going to affect bio availablity. So if i am going to substitute my real meat with plant meat, it's nutrition profile has to be atleast similar but doing so, will either drive cost or have a different texture. So plant meat doesn't need to mimic meat at all. C. As mentioned, micro farms are great - this is bcoz both plant & animal rearing should be done right if our goal is climate warming. So naturally if we stick to natural cycles, both plant and animals can be grown without too much harmful pesticides etc. Not to mention, regenerative farming is just as important to everyone coz it's not like we can't do hydroponic for all plants, etc or that there's always a cost but how we offset it matters. Finally no matter, how much ethical and responsible we try to be - the whole economic and corporate companies will screw the middle and lower class irrespectively. So it's also important to do what we can instead of shaming each other. I mean i had this debate with a misinformed medical professional who didn't accept the ramifications of local food culture and was like going vegan is the best solution. This is so ridiculous as you can't grow plants everywhere and there is social discrimination against some population such as people living in rez, are forced to buy really expensive items and despite their ancestral practices being sustainable, if we force them to go vegan - it's another can of worms. In short, plant meat can be lucrative but we seriously need some proper reforms, co-operation which are sadly more idealistic than practical.

[@ryanhall3689]

Tried these when they first cam out. Texture and feel were similar to real meat. But when cooked smells like warm cat food. Also the price is way too high

[@ktktktktktktkt]

I wouldn't say Beyond Meat tasted like meat. It tastes good but it's unnaturally flavourful and a bit too salty

[@mjsvitek]

Good lord it was far from tasting like meat.

[@kalkrause2554]

First off: Yes please do a mini-series on cows!!! secondly, I'm not vegetarian (I was briefly, but it caused flare ups for a few different health issues I face, and fixing those without meat would require an amount of supplements I just can't afford, plus as I started to look into some of the humanitarian issues and environmental costs that effect most vegetarian/vegan replacements, I couldn't help but feel like I could do less harm eating meat but putting more effort into eat locally grown/raised/produced foods, and looking for certifications pointing towards more ethically produced products, like fair-trade and organic foods) but my 11 year old sister is and my ex-wife most likely still is, so I've had some experience with the lifestyle and still eat very little meat, and I can tell you right now that I've never bought faux meat at a grocery store, only ever at fast food places (where, from experience working in fast food, it's very often cooked on the same surface or in the same oil as all the meat products, so it's not vegan anyways) and ussually only at A&W where it's actually good. It just never made sense to spend that much money on something that wasn't as good as other options. Tofu isn't cheap but it's way cheaper than beyond meat and has way more uses. And you can mimic the "experience" of meat just as well as any faux-meat if you know what you're doing, using pretty much any produce. and honestly, one thing I never got was, why would you want fake meat, anyways? there's so many other foods out there, and so many interesting ways to make almost anything vegan or at least vegetarian, why would I want something mimicking the sickly red of burgers two days in the deli box at Walmart? It's not any more convenient or nutritious than any of my ex's go to meals or the protein smoothies my mom force-feeds my sister (She does also get some amazing vegetarian meals, my mom is just anxious about making sure she gets all her protein and vitamins haha) so what is the point? I get it was more aimed at meat-eaters, but I just never felt like it actually got through to them.

[@TheOnlyTaps]

Great watch as always 👊🏿. And yeah a lot of the comments pretty much hit the nail on the head that unfortunately for the average person, it's simply too expensive to be sustainable. So even for those that question the scales of factory farming its just easier to reduce meat or eat the non meats that are just veggie alternatives and other proteins rather than the full on alternative meat products that end up being nowhere near cost effective enough for people who aren't already in a rich position to where they can pay the extortionate prices of those alternatives.

[@tracejohnson6273]

YESSS more like this! Give us a series; give us a feature-length exposé; whatever! Also, to your point about better beef options, Carbon Cowboys and their 'Roots So Deep' documentary might make for a good resource

[@EchoNorbi]

I'm from Hungary. It is considered a second word country, and I'm pretty sure I'm in the top 30% by wealth globally. Most of these environmentally friendly product (I'm not talking about food only here) is looks like a luxury item. And that should be fine by me. But the marketing and policy (at least here in the EU) feels like they are abusing me for being poor. I'm not entirely confident in my english so here is a quote from Marie Antoinette that captures my feelings as a peasant about this: Let them eat cake

[@orokanamame]

I once accidentally had "sausages" that were vegan - I didn't notice it, because it was a night shift in the office, the packaging looked indifferent, and i wanted a sandwich. I tasted it, and had to throw it out just because of the shit flavor. it was legitimately worse than the bottom tier boiled sausage type of thing. And it costs 3x the normal meat - no wonder it fails

[@matthewjohnson3656]

Yeah… it’s true. Like 1/3 of plant based things are acceptable and even less are good.

[@JewTube001]

not really. plenty of them taste great but there's so many different ingredients and recipes. there's a few brands i like and few i don't.

[@rhapout]

How is that any different from meat products from different brands that can either taste good or bad depending on our preference?

[@thecooletompie]

@@rhapout Yes I've eaten various burger brands and fastfood burgers. And while fastfood burgers are way too dry and lack favour (probably because they use super low fat meat) I've never had a burger taste as bad as a Beyond burger. Credit where credit is due, Beyond did manage to mimic the texture and juiciness of a big patty but the flavour was way off.

[@MatthewJBD]

People looked at the ingredients... They're full of crap and a lot of vegetable oil which is toxic. And they're very expensive.

[@EricAnimeFreak]

Yup ultra processed garbage. I buy my ingredients to cook 1 ingredient at a time.

[@joelcohen4353]

I think part of the failure was in over-hyping the health benefits, which turned out to be few indeed. Impossible & Beyond are high in sodium and saturated fats, and really aren't much healthier than meat.

[@dr.gatoquimico]

I can afford Beyond and was eating it for some time. But, as I learned more about them, by the end of the day, it's ultra-processed food with dozens of [sketchy] ingredients. I would rather eat plant based protein. In fact, plant based protein is cheaper!

[@EricAnimeFreak]

It is widely agreed that animal protein (eggs, milk, meat, fish, and poultry) is the most bioavailable source. Meat-based proteins also have no limiting amino acids, whereas soy is low in the AA methionine and is not considered a “complete” protein.

[@JewTube001]

@@EricAnimeFreak you don't need a single food source, so you complete your protein by combining it. so unless soy is the only thing you're allowed to eat then it won't be a problem, because you'll also be eating nuts, vegetables and other sources.

[@EricAnimeFreak]

@@JewTube001 All I was pointing out was that plant-based foods vary greatly in their protein value and digestibility. Lower bio availability means you will need to eat in excess and more combinations to meet the same nutritional requirements. Getting essential amino acids is easier by sticking to animal based sources, rather then overly complex meal plans with additional calories.

[@theod0r]

Forgive me for not really giving any value to stock prices. It's not like they are forced to do buybacks or something, their real circumstances don't change when the stock price goes down.

[@vladkhripunov9539]

someone missed a great naming opportunity with "beef, bacon and beyond"

[@PostalXD]

I feel like red meat being bad for you will be like fat being bad for you during the 70s in a couple of years

[@ignacio2763]

@@PostalXD red meat an saturated fats will always be bad for you

[@PostalXD]

@@ignacio2763 What is it that makes red meat so bad?

[@ignacio2763]

@@PostalXD LIke everything in nutrition, we need a lot more studies and Im most definitely not an expert. However, there have been a significant amount of well done studies that look at the effects of red meat and their effects. They all show negative significant impact to our health in a lot of ways. From increased cancer risk (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33268459/) to increased heart issues (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34284672/). You have direct studies like and you have more indirect ones that look at entire populations and the longest living groups tend to eat quite low amounts of red meat.

[@Firevine]

@@PostalXD You'll never get an answer because they're wrong.

[@PostalXD]

@@Firevine Realest answer

[@1mlb704]

I'm a marathoner, I run year round, my diet requires roughly 100g of protein a day. On the 1 or 2 days a week I eat beef, I physically feel better shortly after. It's as if I'm giving my body exactly what it needs to recover and keep going. Don't get me wrong, I eat a lot more spinach every week than I do beef. But from a nutritional perspective, I believe eating meat in moderation is good for a lot of people, especially those who are active. But like my doctor says every year at my checkup - don't rely solely on red meat for your protein. There are undeniable health risks from too much red meat, and yes it's bad for the planet (like literally everything else). Balance, variety, and portion control are key.

[@agisler87]

There is little evidence red meat is bad. Along with saturated fat being bad, this had been a lie told for decades. Nutrition science is not scientific and shouldn't be trusted.

[@lilithmarleen]

The issue at hand is the marketing of it all. Meat substitutes are not a necessity of a plant based diet. You don’t need to eat them daily. There are many unprocessed / lightly processed plant foods that contain all the protein we need. Just replace meat with beans, eat more spinach, and you’ll be fine. Meat substitutes are there as a treat, to be used as comfort food, because they emulate the type of flavors and textures that we grew up with and are accustomed to. You can even process your own tofu at home and make a very satisfying and believable vegan nugget that’s similar to chicken. Flavor comes from seasoning, not from the meat itself. So yeah, beyond and impossible meat substitutes are expensive, but that shouldn’t be a concern because we shouldn’t be buying them regularly anyway. They’re just an occasional treat.

[@austinnewman8870]

I personally stopped eating plant based meat alternatives and moved towards organic and UPF free foods

[@balsalmalberto8086]

Ah yes acronyms because everybody knows what that means.

[@austinnewman8870]

@@balsalmalberto8086 Ultra Processed Foods

[@joermnyc]

@@balsalmalberto8086google is good: UPF= ultra-processed foods.

[@razorreznor]

​@@balsalmalberto8086Ultra Processed Foods (UPFs) - huge issue here in the UK. These meat free products aren't food. If you don't have one of the ingredients in your cupboard or it's a chemical composition, it's a UPF.

[@YunisRajab]

All the burger joints are starting to make their own patties for much cheaper so impossible/beyond have no shot of surviving. This was never going to work as a B2C business anyway because factory farming is way too cheap

[@joermnyc]

Most of these are just “veggie burgers” which are a bunch of chopped up vegetables (and sometimes an egg, like many do with their own burgers made from ground beef) in a patty that quickly falls apart while you’re eating it.

[@jazziez6467]

i see it on the clearance rack at my local krogers and it sits there while people grab the real meat on the same rack and leave the fake stuff behind

[@giorno6086]

eating a lesser food for higher price is such a strange concept.

[@melissablick779]

I'm still confused about why plant-based meat is so much more expensive than real meat. My hope had been that a few years in, there would be generic store-brand plant based meat that was substantially cheaper than real meat. Even given government subsidies and economies of scale, it's not clear to me why plant based meats cost so much! Also, if the target customer is meat eaters, why not use animal fat that's a byproduct of the meat industry instead of vegetable oil?

[@josephhughes1498]

In the UK we have lots of own brand vegan meat but the problem is there are so many vegan meat brands coming and going that usually a brand is on offer for cheaper haha

[@VitalVampyr]

To get real meat you just give an animal some feed for a while and then cut it up and they've had a very long time to optimize that process. Imitation meat on the other hand requires lots of specific ingredients that are specially processed and they haven't had much time to work out inefficiencies in the production. Existing agricultural subsidies play a role as well. In the US most basic foods are a lot cheaper than pure market forces would dictate.

[@annaselbdritt7916]

Some countries do have store brand faux meat. Lidl for example has excellent vegan mince, that’s very cheap.

[@melissablick779]

@@annaselbdritt7916 That's really heartening! I used to live near Aldi in the past and miss it quite a bit.

[@grinsechen]

We got there with milk (1l oat milk at 0.95€, cow milk 1-1.05€) and almost/partly with yogurt (500g 0,65€ not 100% sure about the cow version) in germany. I hope this will be a blueprints for the meat aswell

[@Ashes024]

I'm a vegetarian, and I only use fake meat, because my family is not vegetarian and this way we can eat the same meal. Some of it tastes good, most of it is bad, but it's not all there is too cooking vegetarian meals. I've never thought of it as a "healthy" alternative to meat, but just something that can taste good to eat meals similar to my family. I do wish it wasn't so expensive though, because I can't eat tofu due to sensory issues. But chickpeas, and other beans are the answer to everything so I guess I could just do that.

[@notme123123]

Nice video, Levi. Well presented. I think the problem is that there hasn’t been a clear message from the industry. Is it about health? Reducing animal harm? Or reducing resource usage? Combine that with the price and it’s easy for a meat eater to just go back to meat.

[@samsonsoturian6013]

It's about ripping off hipsters

[@mikepatton8691]

I always thought Burger King's Impossible Whopper actually tasted a little bit better than their regular Whopper.

[@Waterflame]

Agreed! It tastes less burnt than the regular burgers do!

[@nampyeon635]

Yeah, when they had promotional pricing I stopped and got them quite a few times. They're great. They cost more now though.

[@youknowmysteelo]

Get your head checked…asap.

[@nampyeon635]

@@youknowmysteelo Have you tried it? It's really good.

[@youknowmysteelo]

@@nampyeon635 really good? Yeah, if you’re starving-near death-and there’s nothing else to eat.

[@anonymoususer13666]

Conspiracy theory: Impossible beef is just regular beef with the price jacked up

[@TheDeadmanTT]

I don't think you can judge an entire section of an industry by one or two CEOs. There's always trendsetters, who will fail, be garbage and tank their entire company. But others will pick up the trend, do it better, cheaper and more efficient. And it's them people you should give a chance. A box of vegan sausages isn't as expensive as a new Google phone. It will be just as good (probably) as your old one.

[@voidtransmits]

A mix of price and availability at first, then it was the pesticides and how soybeans absorb them better causing people to get sick from it were the reasons I never bought into it.

[@RenoReborn]

You can have the best perception of a food product in the world.... but if it tastes bland, tasteless but yet somehow full of salt and other additives then I'mma just eat something that tastes good with all that same garbage.

[@janellebraun5438]

Just buy meat/beef from a local rancher. I got a side of beef for $5.50/pound. You can see how they treat their livestock, and what their livestock eat.

[@Gengh13]

I eat real meat for my health, for those of us dealing with autoimmune issues meat is the best food because it provides most if not all my nutrition needs and it doesn't flare up my autoimmune issues.

[@alanrobertson9790]

I got kidney problem so sometimes eat vegetable meat to reduce quantity of real meat. Sometimes it tastes good but often tasteless. I'm all for people eating what they want and certainly not what other people want.

[@ADR-j9m]

I've never been able to understand why they stock those products in the meat department. Shouldn't those be in the produce section?

[@jeffreyparker9396]

I have always said that vegetation and vegan foods are their own categories that don't have any good reasons to mimic actual meat. I did try an impossible burger side by side with a beef burger. The impossible burger didn't taste like beef at all and had a bad aftertaste. It was definitely not something that a meat eater would think tastes like meat but seems like it might be something that a vegetarian or vegan would think tastes like meat.

[@hexicdragon3094]

As another anecdote, nearly every non-vegan I've met that has tried the Impossible Whopper or beyond burgers I've grilled has said it tastes almost exactly like meat. The reason to mimic meat for vegans is that the vast majority have spent most of their life eating meals centered around meat. It's a lot easier to continue eating hearty pizzas, pastas, tacos, stir frys, burgers, and hot dogs than to switch to raw salads and fruits, especially if your motivation for doing so isn't personal health.

[@jeffreyparker9396]

@@hexicdragon3094 except most of the foods that you mentioned can be vegan and still made traditionally. Vegan doesn't mean salad and fruit, there is a huge variety without trying to mimic meat. I do understand the motivation behind it, I just don't think that it is necessary. I think that it only seems necessary because of the perception that vegan food is basically salads.

[@Its_elena2]

We began vegan or vegetarian for ethic (or health) reasons not cause we hate meat

[@jeffreyparker9396]

@@Its_elena2 that has nothing to do with what I said. Also, last I checked these products were generally considered as bad if not worse for your health than just eating the meat.

[@bruce6014]

Vegetarian of 40 years here. I've tried various fake meat products. Doubtless I'm a poor judge of how like meat they actually are but that's not relevant to me. The taste/texture is all right and it makes a change from other options. What does put me off is that it is that it is so processed. Is this stuff really all that healthy?

[@ChinoWantan]

I went to the US for the 1st time last month. In EVERY burger place I asked for the veggie option (I'm pescatarian) they literally reacted with a "what? really?" or "Do you know that not meat, right?"

[@catbat06]

haha which state?

[@ChinoWantan]

@@catbat06 Los Angeles

[@Mike-77-YT]

Well, if you're pescatarian, you may as well go to McDonald's and get a Filet-o-fish, without cheese if you want.

[@ChinoWantan]

@@Mike-77-YT or i can ask for a salad or just fries or many many other options... what's your point though?

[@ktbmk]

glad to see employees who cared about the customers

[@maxwell_edison]

Fun Fact: Beyond meat "IV" is more expensive and often comes in smaller packages. I wish we had the old version back. As a Vegan, I liked the taste of it for tacos

[@Ashes024]

I'm vegetarian and I've only ever liked store brand meatballs, and ground meat for tacos. But chickpeas are also amazing in tacos, so you could try that too.

[@its649inthemorning]

eh. I just use Lentils to make "fake meat".

[@michaelwarenycia7588]

The hippies were wiser and more sincere than most of the "green" trend pushers today.

[@Hexagonian]

@@michaelwarenycia7588 yeah, but again, the market isn't hippies, it's beef enthusiasts. It's your average Sunday grilling dad they want to convert, which those same Sunday grilling dads are the ones to brag about getting a good deal on toilet paper at the store. They don't want to pay 2 times the price for fake meat.

[@horse14t]

For me, not only was it the price that turned me off from trying these meat alternatives but also, if I buy one to try and find out that I don't like it, I have no one to give the rest of the package to and I don't like wasting food like that. It also doesn't help that one of my friends offered me fake chicken before, which she swore tasted exactly like real chicken and when I tried it, to me it had almost no flavour and the texture was not great. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either and I would never buy it.

[@signupstuff]

Price, it was the price. When I first saw these products in the supermarket they cost roughly the same as real beef. This is probably what generated the initial enthusiasm as the companies at least proved that people would be willing to buy it as a substitute. But after several months the price started creeping up until it was substantially more. So it joined other labels like "organic" and "free range" - a more expensive niche product that people buy to feel good about themselves.

[@insertaverygenericnamehere]

Burger King in Europe is having plant-based burgers - which are as cheap or cheaper than their meat-counterparts.

[@theod0r]

In germany they are cheaper and account for 20-25% of sales, depending on the source.

[@mericanignoranc3551]

U.S. is subsiding beef...so taxpayers are paying for it. All things said it's not cheaper. We could end poverty instead, but rich people , like Bill Gates, the U.S. 's largest farmland owner, needs it more...Who also invested in fake meat.

[@michaelwarenycia7588]

Is this viable in the market, or is it due to government subsidies trying to reshape culture? Serious question, as the EU has pushed a lot of non-viable industries using unsustainable subsidies (as we saw with Germany's "green" energy grid when the war here cut off cheap Russian gas supplies)

[@theod0r]

@@michaelwarenycia7588 The energy grid was fine? The increase in energy pricing is because outdated german legislation couples the energy price to the gas price. Meaning even if you get your energy from waste heat of a nearby power plant, you have to pay the 28ct of current gas energy price. Even tough the market price would be single digit. Germany also has a lot of gas Storage facilities. You need those if you import gas. And those never even came anywhere close to being empty. Some were filled above rates capacity.

[@thefaboo]

They used to in the US too and they were really good 😓

[@JohnSmith-jr7ni]

Haven't watched this yet, but I'm really interested in what "Fall" he's going to discuss. The cell-cultivated (lab grown) meat industry is only Just beginning to take off, with the first meat approved for consumption in Singapore as of last year? Even plant meat is still going strong in a growing market, despite less news coverage. Edit: seems like he's mainly discussing plant based meats, not cell-cultivated. But like I said, the industry is going strong!

[@JohnSmith-jr7ni]

Actually; I'm not sure about the plant based meat claim I made. Could be wrong there. We'll see.

[@pengwino828]

I think he means the failure of the movement in the present day, similar to how the metaverse was hyped up and failed but VR in future will definitely advance in future.

[@ultravaluetech24]

It tastes like $hit and Costs 3-4X more than Actual Meat! and they are wondering why they are bankrupting....

[@gmt5664]

My local Costco has Beyond burger patties for pretty cheap. And my local bougie grocery store has Beyond Burger which I buy when it's on sale. Pretty cheap.

[@jjsage8226]

Another thing, when calling out the ills of industrialized animal farming, we cannot neglect the issues of industrialized plant farming. Removing animals (meat) is not a solution for human nutrition or the 🌎

[@EricAnimeFreak]

Mono cropping leads to soil depletion, nutrient depletion, soil ecology destruction, pesticides and fertilizers poisoning water supply's. But don't worry, climate change blames the climate change from manure production and fertilizer production on livestock. You know they made it, so they caused it, so the plants like to grow in it, so what, it's the livestock's fault?

[@vmaldia]

I live in a third world country. In the supermarket its more expensive than top local brands. Its imported

[@ecoconatus8089]

Would love a cow video, a truly amazing animal and a sacred one for billions

[@Immudzen]

In Germany I see more plant based meet. More stores have more of it in more varieties. It just seems to continue to slowly grow.

[@SHDW-nf2ki]

Beef burger: Beef Not beef burger: *Alchemical recipe for reviving the dead*