The Problems with Fullmetal Alchemist

[@MasterKnightDH]

Best part about Termin-Archer is when despite being literally half-machine, he uses a generic pistol on Roy instead of his mechanical extensions, and then gets shot dead by ANOTHER generic pistol.

[@generaltechnomage306]

Well, to be fair, his cybernetics (at least the arm cannon) ran out of bullets before he moved to Bradley's mansion.

[@MasterKnightDH]

@@generaltechnomage306 I would think his mechanical parts would be enough to overpower a worn down human no matter how adept the latter is. No, Termin-Archer has to use a generic pistol because he just sucks like that.

[@generaltechnomage306]

@@MasterKnightDH Good point; I haven't considered extra strength from mechanical limbs.

[@billywitchdocter]

Hey now, Riza Hawkeye deserves better than to be called a generic pistol! XD

[@MasterKnightDH]

@@billywitchdocter I'm not calling Riza Hawkeye an inept weapon any more than I'm calling Treize Khushrenada from Gundam Wing the inept mobile suit that he piloted against Tsubarov's test Mobile Dolls. Nothing about Riza's skill changes that Termin-Archer was sucking miserably.

[@catalyst6882]

Did you know that Conqueror of Shamballa was actually originally planned to be a 13 episode sequel season? I really recommend listening to the director's commentary by Mizushima. He sounds so distraught at how much of the film was butchered.

[@sangdrako]

I hope that he sees this

[@Stryfe52]

Now I wanna see it!

[@Lowart]

Someone mentioned it to me on Twitter, so I've listened to a bit of it now. What a shame :/

[@Nightman221k]

I'm not even that much of a FMA03 fan (I like it but FMAB/the manga is the version I get most enjoyment from), but even I'd LOVE to see the Mizushima cut of Shamballah.

[@deVillefort63]

@Catalyst I was aware of that, and it just makes me sad, honestly. Shamballa had several interesting ideas, but it just didn't come together. Honestly, the ending of the show [which I will defend] works better without Shamballa. In fact, I'll go further and say that Sacred Star of Milos is a better executed movie than Conquerer of Shamballa. Milos > Shamballa. Fight me ;-)

[@hollowumbra3343]

About Ed fixing his automail with alchemy: It looked to me that by using alchemy, he hamfistedly shifted around a lot of the components to the point that it was not capable of moving like a human hand. Sure, it had movement at the wrist, but that was it. It only had enough motion to allow him to clap easily. If he wanted to grab something, it would be about as useful as doll's hand, or the hand of those posable anime figurines whose hands you have to replace in order to let it hold different stuff. This is probably what allowed him to turn it into a gun; since everything below his elbow was already useless and doll-like, he was comfortable messing with the components within the forearm and essentially switching one useless hand with another useless hand.

[@Lowart]

Good point! I'm still not fond of it (I wish he just hadn't gotten his arm broken, since I feel that him being able to even do that much kind of cheapens Winry's abilities, in my opinion), but what you said makes a lot of sense!

[@blu298]

"allow him to clap easily" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@izukumidoriyaisssss3049]

Ok

[@b4thewar540]

Even so, his nerves are delicately attached to all of the major and minor functions of his automail. For him to transmute it into an entirely different material with new functions and limitations should not have been possible without damaging his nerves (if we’re basing the magic off of what has previously been said about transmuting organic material or automail)

[@Regu269]

@@b4thewar540 the nerves are only connected at his stump. They didn't literally make him new nerve endings. Otherwise he'd damage his nerves every time he damages his automail

[@citral3621]

Despite all 2003’s flaws, I still love it. The music, the tone, the lighting, the themes, the characters, etc. Plus it helps that it was my first anime

[@Jonathan-hd3hg]

I mean, before Brotherhood, everyone always talked about FMA being amongst the all-time greats.

[@pavelandonov3345]

It was mine too. Probably my favorite anime at all

[@pavelandonov3345]

@Zeno the Filipino i can see how that could happen

[@sunwukong5518]

But the power system was all over the place. Like Alchemists have no limits

[@JJsims5504]

SAME. It was my first, and I liked it so much I watched it twice back to back. I then tried Brotherhood and just couldn’t. Took me another few years before I got around to it.

[@JetblackJay]

Rush Valley means rush through the plot

[@CloudMountainJuror]

God, what I wouldn’t give for an extended cut of Shamballa. I really adore so much about that movie. If handled properly, it likely could have been my favorite story arc in all of the FMA franchise. It just badly needed more time to work with.

[@tristanneal9552]

#ReleaseTheMizushimaCut!!

[@Leroset]

Right?! It needed to be longer, like another mini-show altogether, rather than a standard-length movie.

[@dillo2916]

Yeah, I don't mind if it's written through a novel, a manga or something, I just wanna see Mizushima's cut of it.

[@Unfazed1888]

I'd like to think that Sloth going with Juilet Douglas' name was to lure out those in the military that were very observant--the easiest way to do that was to lazily throw in a name that held great significance.

[@Leroset]

Exactly. I thought that it was pretty obviously implied to be a trap for people who are too smart for their own good, like Maes Hughes.

[@8teezy]

But that doesn't really make sense-it doesn't take an observant person to notice that. The Ishvalan War was a major geo-political event that happened only a few years ago, which almost all of the military members we see directly participated in. Of course people are going to notice the name of the person whose actions sparked the whole thing, especially since their lives were directly impacted by it. We remember major political figures for far less. It's kinda like the name Osama Bin Laden in America. The Twin Towers was over 2 decades ago and ppl who were born after the fact recognize that name, never mind those that lived through it.

[@alifhazmi7341]

The problem is how the idea is not coming from sloth, it Dante's idea

[@josephmama5355]

I actually love how coincidental their meeting with marcoh is. Like the fact that its just a bizarre but happy coincidence like that that ultimately led to Father’s several centuries in the making plot to swallow god being foiled is hilarious. Honestly just a failing on the homunculus’ part for not killing marcoh

[@1hitk.owarrior248]

I love your profile pic

[@Marqrk]

Therapist: “TerminArcher doesn’t exist, he can’t hurt you” TerminArcher:

[@chrisrj9871]

TerminArcher: * pops a gun out of his mouth

[@nicodemusedwards6931]

TerminArcher is so stupid... I kind of love him.

[@jaydeepmukherjee6896]

I love how he has several cannons just in his body, but he still chooses to kill mustang with a pistol. Never change terminarcher, never change.

[@Nightman221k]

Archer is kind of a cool character, and the terminarcher concept makes literally NO sense. Automail is established to be hard to get used to and take months to settle into but this guy literally has half his body made of it and it's no thing. BUT ...it does kind of look badass, I'll give it that.

[@ofgreyhairwaifu4089]

@@Nightman221k I mean it is established, that he is a cold blooded murderer and a maniac, he is also shown to be fucking livid 24/7 while withe the mecha parts, what part of his design make you think he is ok with the auto mail?

[@kristofgriffin384]

This show was my introduction to the FMA franchise. I grew up watching reruns of it, and I fell in love with the characters and their story. I felt the pain they went through and laughed when they laughed. Because I'm more ramiliar with it, I always had a preference towards the 2003 show over Brotherhood. However, the series isn't perfect, and a video like this was expected. But I'm not mad about it. I still love FMA 2003, flaws and all, for introducing me to a great franchise,and for being one of my favorite anime from my childhood.

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

The way you went into but the series isn’t perfect made me read this in Al’s voice like the equivalent exchange speech. “But the world isn’t perfect and the law is incomplete, but I still choose to believe in its principle. That all things do come at a price. That there is an ebb and flow, a cycle, that the pain my brother and I went through did have a reward, and that anyone who’s determined and perseveres will get something in return even if it’s not what they expected. I no longer think of equivalent exchange as a law of the world, but as a promise between my brother and I”

[@Stryfe52]

@@haosmagnaingram6992 nice

[@manofwisdom000]

Don’t worry bro. There isn’t anything majorly wrong with 2003. Just a few flaws here and there. But overall superior to Brotherhood. I give 2003 an 8/10 and Brotherhood a 7/10.

[@kaylievinchenstein9987]

I find it so funny that among those of us who love fma 2003, terminarcher is consistently the thing breaks our suspension of disbelief. Like arguably, there are sillier things that should do it, but those contribute to our desperate desire to make sense of what-the-fuck is actually supposed to be going on so they get ignored. Terminarcher, much like regular archer... he just exists. He's there and silly and honestly just makes you wonder why we need to focus on him at all other than the fact that you realize all the other villains have either been killed or underground. He exists purely to have stakes above ground other than king bradley.

[@dirtydirtyshisno7284]

Yeah Terminarcher was just terrible, that and Hohenheim chillin with Nazis took me out of the show a bit, but I still prefer 2003 over brotherhood despite that tbh

[@xblindx]

archer was the anti-mustang. he was supposed to be a literal machine of the military with no other motivation other than to follow orders for the state. mustang is initially portrayed this way, but as the story progresses, he and edward reveal that they have similar motivations and don't just tow the line for the state. edward distrusts adults especially for the state-sponsored war ravaging the world, and yet they both ed and mustang have very human motivations and human morality, where archer is a machine through-and-through. he doesn't care about edward's or mustang's noble motivations. the law is the law, and the state demands justice by the books it has written for itself. archer is the state's mechanical instrument, even in human form. his [arguably rushed] evolution into "terminarcher" is the literal manifestation of his role in the FMA universe. not perfectly executed or narratively expressed, but it is what it is so archer doesn't just "exist"; he's the counter balance to mustang. like mustang, he shows up to thwart edward, though truly only for the state. mustang turns out not to be "by the books" as ed believes if you rewatch FMA, archer appears usually where mustang would normally be, attempting to take his position

[@bunsmasterbunny]

@@xblindx So basically what Lyra would have become had she not met Ed.

[@You-Tube-n5k]

I will say, while i agree with what was said here, I've never really looked at Archer much differently than the various corrupt military men in Brotherhood. Like, despite their differences, I really don't think of him much differently from Raven or Cremin. This isn't really me expressing a preference or anything, just some food for thought I guess.

[@AMTheOcarinaPlayer]

Not gonna lie, the 2003 version for its time was still the most talked about anime and considered one of the best anime of that decade. Right beside Naruto, One Piece and Bleach. So, I’m definitely with the minority that actually Like 03. Music, pacing, tone (dark as heck) even the odd ending had a lot of dark implications.

[@hellobastion1518]

Anime Hitler!

[@katarinanovak824]

Yes, yes, YES!!

[@fightingmedialounge519]

A lot of people do still like 03, hence videos like this existed.

[@orxy5316]

There is no minority, stop trying to feel special, 03 is still as liked as when it came out

[@hellobastion1518]

@@orxy5316 I'm the minority that has never seen, read or knows what Full Metal Alchemist is. What's a Toy Bustang? Alfredo Sauce and Tedward are my favourite Balkanists.

[@LupinticDream]

I believe that, overall, Mangahood contains more consistently good writing when compared to 2003 (for the record, I watched the 2003 series before watching/reading Mangahood). Whereas 2003 is a series that has higher highs in comparison to Mangahood, but that also means it contains lower lows... so there's some give-and-take there. 'Course, that's simply my take according to my own personal tastes. Regardless, I love both versions of FMA, and when people praise one version while totally downplaying the other version and its fans, I just groan a little inside, y'know? Neither really feels complete without the other, they both make up for each other's faults. Only through having both in the picture, are we then able to appreciate the aspects that the reflecting version lacks.

[@animeartist888]

Very much same. I saw '03 way before brotherhood, and I've never read the manga. But anytime somebody says "well this version is excellent but that other version is awwwwful" I get a little offended. They're both great series. I can't rewatch either one without also rewatching the other.

[@MrMarinus18]

The feel, pacing and tone of both though is so drastically different from each other they more so feel like 2 entirely separate shows build on the same framework.

[@smirglepapier531]

Explaining this is really difficult but I always say that the 03 version is basically an AU from the original story. It's basically the same framework but vastly different stories which happens to have the same characters. The 03 version should be watched before Brotherhood imo as I feel that the 03 version (although still good) is really lackluster in some of its later story beats. It makes up for it with some of its final fights but brotherhood had the more fulfilling ending imo.

[@history_loves_anime8927]

Then there's the fact that Brotherhood skips a lot of the early stuff (some which is important), that '03 kept in so can you really say it's a beat for beat of the manga? It was expected that you already watched '03 especially when Youswell got brought back up and Brotherhood didn't give the early episodes to make it relevant (also like to point out that the mini arc shows Ed willing to bend his principles, just a little to help people).

[@smirglepapier531]

@@history_loves_anime8927 yeah. BH expects you to have already watched the 03 version I think

[@MattAnd]

How did I forget about Termi-Archer!? I watched all of 2003 and just...blanked that entire thing out apparently

[@titanquest15]

Lowart, you can't just upload another Fullmetal Alchemist video so quickly. There are rules! You gotta pace them out over a couple of months.

[@Lowart]

Fullmetal August tiiiime

[@mutaharyourmomisinmyharema1373]

Haha review go brrrr

[@Lowart]

I uploaded the subtitles a few hours ago, but it looks like they still haven't worked. Apologies to those who need them, but they should be working soon!

[@Omnipotentmonkey]

14:02 he can transmute it into a gun because he has the raw material and the knowledge of how a gun fits together. Automail is more complex. which is why if you look close, he doesn't actually have a proper functional hand at this point, the fingers are fused together and can't move. it's very much a patchwork fix. 15:19 all of Rose's interaction with her baby is in that trance-like state. It wouldn't surprise me if she does care more about Ed than her baby at least at that point given the... complicated... origin of said baby. I have no defense for Termin-Archer... that shit was the dumbest thing across every iteration of this series.

[@genyakozlov1316]

Manga's Pride is the dumbest thing across every iteration of this series, his powers, personality, and the way he practically defeated himself, thus stealing from me the gratification of seeing him get his due like all the other homunculi did. One of the worst characters in any anime I ever watched.

[@unluckycatfish6866]

My question for the gun is: Where did he get the ammo?!

[@cutekitty1212]

Let's just be honest, it's a rape baby. I would care more about someone else too.

[@-toxicus-8582]

@@unluckycatfish6866 the gun already had ammunition on it im pretty sure

[@unluckycatfish6866]

@@-toxicus-8582 Yea but where did he get the materials to make ammo in the gun? Unless he's fighting in some ammo storage room then I have no idea

[@lipailong2]

Regarding Ed repairing his arm: Wrath broke his arm at the wrist as opposed to Scar who completely destroyed it. Ed transmuted a hand that only bends at the wrist using wiring from his automail. Transmuting his arm into a gun isn't too far fetched given that he used guns to repair his arm.

[@yuhanwang7122]

The problem is he needs to understand how a gun works in order to transmute it into a gun.

[@V1G4M1]

And who says he doesn‘t understand the workings of a gun?

[@HVST8935]

Wait, I thought Pride mentioned he didn't want to have to force Mustang to open the portal because it involved some risk. It's not explained what that risk exactly was but I imagine it had to do something with Pride's body deteriorating.

[@lilylopnco]

I think it used up most of the souls in Pride's stone as the "price" for the transmutation, which weakened him enough for Edward to beat him.

[@sarafontanini7051]

yes its very clearly implied (if not stated) that the whole 'forced portal opening' thing was a last ditch desperate move when Mustang, who was like the last viable sacrifice they had at the time of the shining moment, refused to do what he was supposed to. it's not something they could jsut reliably do for everyone or whenever they wanted.

[@haileyparsons3844]

Yes that’s why, it was a risk for them because it drained there energy.

[@HVST8935]

@@lilylopnco Yeah, probably that. His container was deteriorating and his shadows were not as strong as before.

[@L1Q]

Mustang still payed with his eyes though. Other gate openers didn't have to use souls for human gransmutation either. Which leads to another idea: the reason it was risky is not about soul usage. it's about homunculus using alchemy in general. They are not supposed to. Father can do it only after consuming half of Xerx citizens' souls. Pride can do it with this very elaborate rig: consumed soul of somebody with know-how and a coersed living alchemist. Streaming alchemy though a homunculus is therefore not about souls usage necessarily.

[@matthewplays7232]

I completely forgot that Bradley WASN'T the reason Mustang had an eyepatch at the end of '03

[@scifinerd17]

Yeah that was RoboArcher

[@BruceWayne-fj9bm]

He got shot in the head.

[@sessishownu3196]

I always felt that Winry in 2003 was Potrayed as an unstable/moody teenager (Ed too was hot tempered, and both were still dealing with the death of a parent) . So I didn't mind, I felt she was more human with her flaws and immaturity. Just my opinion tho. Loved the video, 2003 is special to me, but your arguments are valid too.

[@Galvatronover]

I felt she was more human I keep hearing this and I’m personally tired of it ……

[@adamisajoker]

The Juliet Douglas thing makes sense, Sloth is too lazy to change her name.

[@alifhazmi7341]

It is Dante's idea, honestly she is just really stupid as a mastermind villain

[@YAXHS]

😂

[@huntersteinitz2709]

I so agree with so much of this series! 2003 was my first exposure to FMA and I was also very satisfied with its conclusion. There is one thing though where I think I see something you missed. You mean toon how it is odd that Rose doesn’t react when her baby is tossed around yet does react when Ed is hurt. I’ve always thought that reaction made sense in context. The show heavily implies that Rose’s child was the result of a non consensual interaction with an Amestrian soldier. It’s entirely possible that she is emotionally removed from the baby as a result of that trauma. While she shares a deep emotional connection to Ed that goes beyond trauma because he pulled her out of it. Just my two cents, for what they’re worth.

[@Omnipotentmonkey]

Conqueror of Shamballa is a bit of a mess. but by god it's a pretty mess. the music and animation are absolutely stellar. the subdued palette, the atmospheric lighting, the hyper-real character animation. and by GOD, that battle between Gluttony and Wrath is freaking spectacular. for me it's the best looking FMA production by a wide-margin. and the soundtrack that plays on the wings of the ship where Ed and Al move to part ways is just... artistry. the finest OST across all both series/movies.

[@Dolamieu]

I just hate that they just had to bring nazis into it 1 it’s unnecessary 2 can’t watch it with out worrying someone going to walk in on me

[@ChiisaiTenshii]

@@Dolamieu The entire WWII events of CoS were very well-studied and respectfully done, though. It's (mostly) historically accurate, and I think people get too hung up on the nazi aspect of it all. On a level it's a simple comparison of the military in Ed's world and the ethnic purging the Ishbalan's experienced, so to Ed, he's already understands how the war is building up since he's already experienced a similar one. On a characterization level, Noah being ostracized for being a Roma is how Ed connects to someone on a deeper level feeling like an outsider himself. As a Jewish person, I thought it was a pretty neat premise imo

[@fervor-craft]

@@ChiisaiTenshii My main issue with the movie is that the plot is directly linked with real-world events that actually happened. Like, it's one thing to have it play in our world and feature nazis in the 1920s etc., but it is imo sth totally different, if the story implies that the protagonists' actions contributed to a historic event. Like, part of the plan of the Thule society (the villains) is to help the nazis with their coup d'etat, bc it's 1923, the story takes place in Munich and this is there the "Hitler-Ludendorff Putsch" took place and failed. And the movie implies that it failed bc of anime fantasy shenagigans... It's also a bit unnerving to me that one of the villains is also supposed to be one of the more known higher ups in the nazi party. And I don't know... it really feels very fan fiction like if one basically inserts their OCs in historical events to foil the plans of war criminals. xD

[@innovade7887]

@@Dolamieu I'm confused, why would you worry about someone walking in on you watching it?

[@ofthetribe]

💯 Gluttony vs. Wrath fight was beautiful!

[@YungandRekless545]

*(Sigh)* As much as I prefer the pacing of 03 to the first half of Brotherhood, I always knew this video was coming lol

[@alexvaughan1013]

One big problem I had with FMA 2003 is how it turned Al into a walking MacGuffin who always needs to be saved. How many freaking times does he get kidnapped/put in mortal danger and need others to save his shiny metal ass? Al also seems to have very little agency, and is only proactive at the end when he sacrifices himself to save Ed. Even in Conqueror of Shamballa when Wrath fights Gluttony, Al stands there and does nothing while Wrath gets brutally eaten. The fight is intense and well animated, but Sakura, I mean Al, is just infuriating. Compare that to Mangahood, where Al decides very early on that he won't let others die, not when he can protect them. Later on, Al comes up with a plan to outsmart Pride, the most powerful Homunculus. He even holds his own in a fight against Pride and Kimblee. To use a term Attack on Titan fans like to use, Al kind of got "monged" in FMA 2003.

[@manofwisdom000]

When was the last time you watched both 2003 and Brotherhood? Because I’d argue the same for Brotherhood as well. And let’s be realistic here, he only got kidnapped like 3 times in 2003. Same with Brotherhood. How was he suppose to fight 3 chimeras and a greedy homunculus all at once? Including one chimera who got into his armor to control and lessen his movements? Think about it. Same goes for Brotherhood. How was he suppose to perform alchemy if he himself is the Philosopher’s Stone during the fourth and final season of 2003? He can easily lose himself… You say that his Brotherhood counterpart decided early on that he won’t let others die. That’s not character development. That’s just him being naive and it’s a character trait overused so much in shonen manga and anime series. People around you are going to die regardless and at some points, there is very little you could do to help and save them… Al in Brotherhood didn’t even held his own against Kimblee and Pride. He had help from Henkel and Dr. Marcoh if you were paying attention…not to mention he never once defeated Pride and Kimblee all on his very own either. Not to mention before Pride broke out with Kimblee’s help, Al just sat there and let Pride hit on his helmet the entire time, not even realizing that he is sending out a signal. But keep thinking Brotherhood is the perfect thing on the planet like the general public thinks though… 🙄

[@nxdiaz5916]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@manofwisdom000⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠You make it sound like Al had no character at all in Brotherhood, which I just find plain insulting. He’s frequently portrayed as the Heart of the dynamic he plays with his brother. Whereas Ed is motivated by guilt over what happened to his brother during their Human Transmutation, Al wants to enjoy the moment, experience warmth, do simple things like being able to taste Apple Pie again. His brother, whether he admits it or not, is focused on undoing the mistakes of the past (at least for the first act of the story), while Al just wants to experience the present and life as a normal person again. He’s arguably more heroic than his already selfless brother in Brotherhood. By and large Al has the most to gain by saying “screw it” and using a philosophers stone to get his body back. But of course that doesn’t happen with either brother because morals, but for Al specifically, he’s too compassionate and relates too much to the concept of his soul being an important part of who he is. The concept of using other peoples souls for personal benefit isn’t just immoral for him, it is completely contridictory to who he is and how he sees himself for most of the show. On the topic of Al’s compassion, his character development in the show of declaring that he won’t let anyone else die if he has the chance to protect them can be misread as naivety if it wasn’t for the fact that the show itself goes out of its way to show that (at least after his fight with Barry the Chopper) Alphonse isn’t very naive, mostly when he sees right through Greeds lackeys attempts at manipulation. And Al was making the declaration that he’d make sure to protect others above his own personal goals, even after the revelation that his soul may not be comparable with the armor he’s bound to. In a sense he’s saying that even at the cost of his life, he’s not going to allow himself to let others die in the pursuit of his personal wants and needs, a declaration which he constantly delivers on and is consistently rewarded for, even if, admittedly it’s rarely on his own merit. And I take insult specifically at your point that it’s a childish declaration to protect others when that is a guiding motivation for the vast majority of heroic characters in fiction. And I agree, it’d be a little hard to ignore Al’s lackluster record in solo combat (his only real solo victory off the top of my head being against Fu) if it weren’t for the fact that Al won his most significant fight against Pride and Kimberly BECAUSE he wasn’t fighting alone and CHOSE to help the Chimera he was with instead of leaving him to die. Because he chose to stay behind and save someone when any reasonable alternative would see him saving himself. But because of his relentless commitment to help others, he not only gains what he needs to make his fight against the most deranged alchemist in history and the deadliest Homunculi of them all, not only survives that encounter, but helps take one of the most dangerous people on the side of the Homunculi out of the picture because he stayed and helped one man. It’s one of the most perfect and poetic displays of who Alphonse is. This argument of yours portrays a fundamental misunderstanding of who Alphonse Elric in the context of Mangahood is, as well as some of the core themes of the story he’s in. There are deeper meanings in both, and to see someone fragrantly ignore that is more than a little disheartening.

[@ED-on8dz]

​@@nxdiaz5916Alphonse from 2003 defeated Kimble even without the powers of transmuting without circles. What's more surprising is what Alphonse did in Brotherhood. Additionally, he was overrated; he was captured multiple times-one instance due to greed, another due to pride. It's funny that the Alphonse from 2003 also learned not to let anyone die, but the classic version goes beyond that, exploring it from a negative perspective. Alphonse's existential crisis is thematically linked to the homunculi. They are created with consciousness, can think, feel, and develop emotions, yet aren't human. Alphonse lacks a body but possesses a soul. Dante has a human body but is less human than the homunculi, just like Kimble and Basque Grand. There's no definitive answer to what being 'human' is. Unlike Arakawa, who believes humans can empathize, have emotional relationships, and support each other, Alphonse experienced an existential crisis but developed through Scar, proving he was human. He changed Scar's view, a man who deemed alchemy demonic. Alphonse demonstrated being a 'true human,' yet doubts remained. He was committed to restoring his brother's body, even facing Wrath, challenging his 'no killing' ideal. He saved Kimble's chimera soldiers but Brotherhood's idealism assumes people change or can be trusted by words alone. Alphonse realized his error-his ideals led to harm. He became the Philosopher's Stone, allowing Kimble to wreak havoc. Ultimately, he sacrificed himself to save his brother, ending his own existence and the Philosopher's Stone's evil. This sacrifice is more real than Brotherhood's poorly executed one. . What's that nonsense about Alphonse planning to sacrifice himself against a dying Father? When Mai-Chan, with her Xing alchemy, could have blown him away since she has ranged attacks. But no, Alphonse insisted on sacrificing himself, forcing a traumatized girl who was crying because she didn't want to do it. It's like being attacked by a dog while you have a weapon in your hand, and knowing you can shoot it, your friend offers to sacrifice themselves. Literally, Alphonse is a godsend, compelling a young girl. Goodness gracious! The worst part is when they return his arm, which was already malnourished, he suddenly has the strength to pull out a steel bar from concrete. Yet, Alphonse himself rejected his body because his "arms" were malnourished and wouldn't be useful for fighting. But this doesn't apply to Edward because he's the protagonist. Just with this argument alone, it's evident that Brotherhood deals very superficially with its themes compared to the depth and complexity of the 2003 version.

[@manaka-chan8907]

I liked the more human aspect of 2003. Like how Ed learns that he’s only human and can die anytime.

[@youshouldntadidthat7691]

@provis345 p for me I like both a lot, but 2003’s endings just….urgh

[@mr.l3938]

@@youshouldntadidthat7691 I have to respectfully disagree there the ending did make sense but the movie ending yup there I can agree

[@msbookworm1395]

I love both series equally and kinda watch either depending on my mood. If I want to feel sad and bawl throughout the entire series, I'd watch FMA. If I want the less sad version and just cry and not bawl my eyes out, then I'd watch FMAB. I do watch the FMAB more though because I love how it ended more.

[@dataphoenix8004]

@@youshouldntadidthat7691 Sloth death is sad what you talking about

[@youshouldntadidthat7691]

@@dataphoenix8004 I know, but the entire ending was just more a chore to watch and soured the otherwise amazing series for me.

[@Foxintox]

About keeping Mustang alive : imo the criteria to be a candidate for sacrifice is not only that the person is powerful enough that they COULD open the portal , but rather that their personality is such that they WOULD try and open the portal without requiring intervention . That’s characteristic of Father’s plans : laziness , Sloth , which is a continuous sub-theme : showing that father didn’t FULLY abandon his sins as he still displays wrath , sloth , pride , greed etc. Hence why his entire plan relies on manipulating people into doing stuff rather than doing it himself , even going as far as creating « henchmen » to do his dirty work . The least involved he is , the better . But also , direct intervention (like locking up the sacrifices) is more likely to lead to people asking questions , and Father being discovered , and him being lazy doesn’t want to deal with that . We can see how trying to capture Marco backfired for example .

[@ED-on8dz]

He had many sacrifices in front of his eyes during the beginning of the series and he could create the same sacrifice by training an alchemist, even if a person discovered them, he would be eliminated by having all amestris under control, if his plan failed. He was by his own stupidity an example to let go of the elric brothers, giving him a chance to fight back, but what you're saying is overthinking and not admitting the mistakes of the show.

[@DreZato12]

@@ED-on8dz why on earth would father waste his time training an ant to jump through a hoop. Pride being his most potent trait he can't fathom a world where his plan isn't going to work no matter who opposes him. it's not a mistake its by design

[@godzilla2k26]

@@ED-on8dz Yea he thought in absolutes so that is giving character he wasn't supposed to have actually.

[@ED-on8dz]

@@DreZato12 the same reason the father was desperate to find another sacrifice on the same day as the promised day, that was Roy Mustang, he was so clever in making a thousand year plan to make blood circles and create homunculi that he wasted time creating King Bradley. Who is a human raised by the nation through experiments, but I do not think that having the alchemists that he produces would be sheep, of a simple use so that his plan is completed and being God something that he wanted seems to me stupid that he will not think in things so basic to his plan

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@ED-on8dz ah yes, let more people know about his secret plans, that'll surely not lead to people trying to backstab him, or lead to people finding out about his plans and trying to thwart him, or any number of reasons he'd have to keep everything secret beyond 'orcus on his throne bond villain stupidity'.

[@ulysseh4598]

Wow, I didn't know ANY of that regarding the Conquer of Shamballa. I felt very similarly about it and the ending of 2003, and hearing all this info is pretty interesting. Great video as usual. Please keep at it!

[@Phillibetrus]

Regarding Al's response to remembering the truth from Brotherhood and not being affected by that I though spoke very well to his character. This event just didn't traumatize him the way it did Ed or Izumi, and is probably why he lost his whole body. Cool background for the show to think that the only ones to attempt human transmutation and survive would be ones who do get traumatized and reject it before loosing too much of themselves. As the show stands the only reason Al survived is because Ed yanked his soul back out of the portal. I like to think that seeing the truth would affect everyone differently but having a survival bias of the traumatized and then a taboo around it spring up makes for excellent worldbuilding without the need to explain.

[@PcCAvioN]

I don't know if this bursts your bubble, but Al's body and soul were part of what Ed exchanged for their mother. This might be why Al's body is just waiting there, because Truth doesn't hold him accountable

[@Phillibetrus]

@@PcCAvioN that's what Ed keeps saying, Al always seams to correct him though saying it was his fault too. and why would this human transmutation be more expensive then all the others? It makes more sense to me that Al payed a steeper price because he wanted to see more.

[@N0rlight]

I am so happy to know somebody who loves all versions of Fullmetal Alchemist, I for one is really a huge fan of 2003, since I was like 9 years old. I loved FMA so much the school were actually annoyed that I was only drawing that. The series also made me have a better understanding of our world and how close the corrputed government is quite similar. Whenever someone ask if they should watch FMA, I always advise them to watch 2003 then the Brotherhood, theres many things one have that the other don't. In a way all verison compliments each. and at the end, it is always more of FMA.

[@phosus1184]

same broo😭

[@lordquaz7154]

I agree with most everything you said in this video, but I still can't help but prefer 03 over brotherhood. It holds a special place in my heart and I can overlook a lot of the show's bigger flaws because what it dose well, it dose exceptionally well.

[@Druguzu]

I couldnt have said it better. Plus just the overal tone of the show dok how to describe it, but i love it.

[@wusty1716]

I mean the ending to 2003 does say nothing is perfect and that we cherish it nonetheless.

[@animeartist888]

An excellent point.

[@tss3393]

Your feelings on Conquerors of Shamballa remind me of a meme I saw a while back. Tell me if you've seen it, but it expresses similar sentiments to the film and where everyone ends up by the end of it. But then it wonders if Truth may have been watching these events unfold and, unsatisfied, decided to give Ed and Al another chance, feeling they deserved to do better. "So the Truth grins and utters one word...' *Again.* '"

[@Rgoid]

Nope. Not buying it. The so-called Truth does not give a damn about humans much less Ed and Al.

[@strifer2781]

@@Rgoid you sure? Truth was quite happy when Edward gave him the right answer during his final transmutation

[@amapola629]

Ah so we got Brotherhood thanks to Truth? 🤔

[@Derpalon]

I think I agree with most of these criticisms, but tend to strongly disagree on the severity of how much they make or break the narrative. Like Mecha-Archer never really bothered me all that much. Yeah his character design was a little comically over-the-top and unnecessary, but he was also barely there and didn't take up enough screentime to really damage the narrative in any way that mattered to me. It's also interesting how the order and timing in which you consume the material can drastically alter your perception of it. For instance, when I watched FMA 2003 for the first time, I had no idea there was a movie planned afterward; let alone an eventual remake that follows the manga more closely, so when I saw it on my first viewing, I was _super_ pissed at the outcome. After all that pain and suffering, not only do Ed and Al never get their mother back and Ed is still stuck with his automail, but they're separated from each other forever as well? That's waaayyy too harsh to end on IMO, even for as dark as this series was. So when I suddenly stumbled upon the movie while browsing the internet one day, I was incredibly shocked and relieved. I felt like it was essential viewing in order to give the series a proper ending. It still finishes with enough ambiguous open-endedness to keep it interesting and match the tone of the series, but without being too gratuitously tragic either. But since you came at this from the perspective of already seeing Brotherhood's more cathartic ending, you probably were already looking for and expecting something different, so none of this bothered you nearly as much as it did for me. I do think the movie would have been made better with those omitted scenes put back in, for sure, but I also don't think these omissions detract from the fact that the film still had a lot of interesting ideas and ultimately stuck the landing with a more satisfying conclusion even if it was a bit messy getting there, but that's just me. Good analysis regardless. Honestly listening to some of this stuff makes me wish more artists would be given opportunities for director's cuts. We already saw how drastically Justice League was improved by giving the director a chance to return and add tons of scenes back in, but it's doubly unfortunate when an already great series like FMA 2003 doesn't get the same opportunity for improvement.

[@APinchofBazel]

Unfortunately animated director's cuts are a much harder sell. Something like JL wasn't cheap, because the VFX work still had to be finished, but it still had footage to work off of. For budget's sake animation has to be a lot more economic, meaning decisions to make cuts are made much earlier on in the storyboarding stage, and if they ever wanted to add them back in, they'd have to go through the animation process from the ground-up. I don't think we've really _seen_ any extended/director's cuts of animated movies out there outside of the odd Rango or Iron Giant, and even those were for fairly menial scenes that despite being removed, didn't necessarily make the movie feel incomplete. They were just nice to have. Biggest instance is probably Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker's PG-13 cut, and I'm pretty sure that only happened because the uncut scenes were more-or-less finished before they got hit with the censor mandates.

[@fu40000]

I wonder why I never hear anybody mention the darker subtext in 2003 like how Roses’s baby was clearly from a group of soldiers forcing them selves on her and when they flashback to Scar”s past during the war he’s clearly depicted as a child soldier someone roughly around Edwards age.

[@englishgiraffe2124]

Tbh, I really didn't like the Rose element in 2003. I always find it a cheap way to forcibly say 'WaR bAd' when writers use r*pe on a character that the audience can care for. It's one of the few things that I actively dislike from FMA 2003.

[@ChiisaiTenshii]

@@englishgiraffe2124 I thought it was done in a pretty subtle way that wasn't too forced, personally. They didn't make it overly obvious where you actually had to see the incident, and the point of it was less "war bad" and more "bad people will use power to take advantage of bad situations". It was mainly used to help Ed realize that the military he works for did awful things outside of orders (because in that episode he was pretty strongly defending the actions of the military to Scar, who planned to turn them into a philosopher's stone). It still didn't change Ed's mind that they didn't deserve to be killed/discriminated as a group just like the Ishbalans didn't deserve it.

[@APinchofBazel]

@@englishgiraffe2124 idk man, actual soldiers have done that much and worse. They wisely don't make it exploitatively explicit, and it goes well with the more negative attitude 03 had towards the military than Brotherhood did.

[@Homodemon]

Valid opinions, since on rewatch Shambala really doesn't hold up that well and the filler was maybe my least favorite part of 03's adaptation. I mean... My brain kinda suppresses that Archer is even a character that exist within this series. The moment he stops being on screen I instantly forget about him. Hell, back in the day when I watched Shambala right after finishing the anime I was really confused over Mustangs eye patch for most of the movie. "Wait, when did that hap... Oh. Right..." But you know what I hate the most? The fucking Star of Milos, that Brotherhood movie. God damn, that was horrible.

[@genyakozlov1316]

Both incorrect opinions. Milos was better than anything that happened under Central during the final battle. I like the manga's ending, but the final battle was horrible, not a single good thing about it. It was more like a boss rush from a video game than an infiltration of the enemy stronghold, and all the "emotional" bits, like Mustang vs Envy and him loosing his eyes were squandered by being done awfully.

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@genyakozlov1316 How were they done awfully?

[@Homodemon]

@@genyakozlov1316 a good thing I didn't ask you about your opinion then...

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@Homodemon Weak response. Worthy of a 7 year old. No one needs your permission to say anything

[@HeffboomKonijn]

God, Mustang’s quote “Its a terrible day for rain” while silently cry’s over Hughes death…still is gut wrenching to this day and a damn good quote

[@evilbutterfly8]

A lot of the stuff that explains COS is also in the special features of the DVD release, it shows the director talking about how he had to shorten the movie's script, (it would've been like 3 hours long if they kept everything) it also shows a lot of behind the scenes stuff with the art, the music, and the voice actors which is pretty cool too

[@chaoscontroller316]

Well that gripe with Mustang and the portal is actually explained by Pride in the anime. It was a last resort, something they didn't expect to need to do but with time running out and any other candidates having fled or died, Pride and Wrath took the only option left and chose the only alchemist among them strong enough to withstand the Truth.

[@ashleytuchin7693]

You make some good, valid points. Having said that, '03 is still my favourite version of FMA, though I also have mixed feelings about Shambala. Like you said though, all versions of FMA are wonderful in their own way. I'm looking forward to seeing your final video, even if it's going to be sad to see this series end. Do you think you'll ever do a comparison video between Shambala and Sacred Stars of Milos?

[@Civilian08]

Honestly, like Robo Archer, I think the mannequin soldiers from Brotherhood are similarly out of place. They just show up towards the end of the show, looking like nothing else we've seen previously and behaving like nothing we've seen previously. At least with Robo Archer, automail is a well established thing, and we've seen automail with weaponry built in. In my opinion, the problem with both of them is that they're too transparently what they are. Archer is a killer robot and the mannequin soldiers are zombies, and it's weird that they show up in a story that is otherwise not about robots or zombies. Legend of Korra had a similar problem in the final season, with Kuvira's giant mecha.

[@solidghost1337]

Honestly I found the giant robot a lot more plausible than the giant spirit fight against unavaatu. I mean, look at how quickly the world evolved in just one generation between Avatar and Korra. The existence and metal and lightning benders and spirit vines allowed them to skip a lot of steps in technological advancement, like figuring out how to power it and manufacture it. Plus there were mech suits as early as season 2 of Korra, I think the giant robot was plausible, especially with Kuvira essentially using endentured servitude to create it. The giant spirit fight came more out of nowhere imo.

[@ThePreciseClimber]

Seems like the only real purpose of the mannequin soldiers was reviving Envy for the final encounter with Mustang. In retrospect, the trap Marcoh prepared for Envy was kinda pointless. The author could've just used Envy as the obstacle in front of that door instead of the soldiers. Not to mention the "stone-destroying" alchemy thingy is never used again! I mean, really? Couldn't Marcoh at least teach Al the technique?

[@frickinfrick8488]

Always happy to see more juicy FMA content. For keeping mustang alive as a sacrifice, I thought one of the reasons that made him a good candidate was his deep attachment to Riza. My interpretation was that the homonculi in the military could see that he’s powerful enough to do it and that he cares enough about someone for them to be easily able to manipulate him into opening the gate by threatening Riza, as they did end up doing. I thought the fact that they forced him to open the gate was out of pure desperation since there wasn’t time left and they didn’t think he’d refuse to save Riza in the first place. Still pretty contrived and that still doesn’t explain why they left it so late instead of just doing it earlier, but I thought I’d mention it.

[@Megaritz]

"Father, just be smart, I'm begging you." Sounds like what I want to tell my dad sometimes.

[@chrisrj9871]

me too

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

One thing i liked about 2003 was Mustangs darker background, giving him a "stronger motivation". He literally was in very clear: "If i don''t do it someone else will"-situation. Solf surely would have enjoyed it. Probably would have taken a little longer too, i mean he canonically did that, Scar is one surviving example we got. And then he would lost the position the Rockbells would have very likely met worse fate and no one would try to change the situation.

[@You-Tube-n5k]

This is one of the only times I've actually liked watching a "problems with" video essay, because it's clear these are just critiques that come from a place of love for the material more than anything.

[@Ω3103ζ]

if the production team behind the movie would announce a "Remake" to the film (adding stuff in etc.) tomorrow what would your reaction be? Would you be excited or would you hate the idea of it?

[@Lowart]

I'd be excited to see where it goes, definitely

[@rosataylor1308]

I spent my teens watching 2003 versión in Animax. I watched it over and over again and even though my brothers hated it and bullied me alot, I never stopped loving it. When I came across Brotherhood 10 years ago I was overwhelmed and amazed by such a very good anime. But still I have never stopped loving 2003 FMA. Still have a very special place in my heart.

[@GenmaTheSamurai]

So I'd have to rewatch to confirm the details of this, but I gave 2003 a rewatch last year and I really like how foreshadowed the ending was in hindsight. Most notably the car ride moment you shared before because I think Mustang was humming bethoven or something, which was the exact song used when they crossed over. At least if I remember right. Such a crazy moment. I definitely have issues with 2003 but it definitely is the more artistic version of the story which I like a ton.

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

Rose's state wasn't a drug. I always read it as Dante manipulating her trauma from getting the baby (gonna assume you picked up on the subtext) to keep her in an emotionally detached state. The baby is attached to that trauma but ed is attached to what kept her strong before the trauma, seeing him hurt was the first thing to get her out of the emotional trappings Dante had worked her into. It's a whole bunch of psychological complexity I myself only understand on an emotional level so I can get the confusion, I'm guessing the writers also didn't fully get the intricacies of it and just did their best to write from what they knew emotionally would work.

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

or you thinking to much and the writers just messed up

[@godzilla2k26]

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl Nope he was the first thing familiar to her, simply no drug. Actually silly to think there was one.

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl the narative would have carried an implication of drugging but there was none, emotional manipulation of trauma just fits with whats being presented and as a casual writer myself I recognize the way a writer adapts a concept they understand on a emotional level but haven't done the exact research to have characters give exposition on.

[@diarawisteria2218]

It's definitely an intriguing topic. She was absolutely showing trouble empathizing with her baby (as the poor kid was unwanted), whereas she knew Edward and watching him get *stabbed* might have been more outright traumatic and shocking than baby hot potato. For all the horrible shit Dante was doing, the baby was never outright harmed the way Ed was.

[@lees3178]

Yeah that’s… exactly what happened. I really can’t see another way of understanding the situation. It’s SA and a forced pregnancy by some god powerful being and the obvious trauma. She’s been used this entire time and her hope is gone. The baby is meaningless to her. And I think there’s a blue tinted scene (they do love that blue tint lol) that hints at it. I do love this series tho it’s how I met my husband :)))

[@frickinfrick8488]

I never knew about all the cut content in Conqueror of Shambala, that really fills in a lot of gaps

[@TheGamingSiri]

On CoS, especially after hearing some of the creator commentaries in Goatjesus analysis of the film, I really do feel for Mizushima and his team, they had a lot of interesting plans and ambitious ideas that could've legitimately expanded 2003's lore in unique ways, but due to Brotherhood beginning early development in the conjunction with planning for the movie, Shamballa was left essentially incomplete. Maybe, if we're really lucky, we could get a redo of Shamballa that recobbles the lost material, but I doubt that could ever truly happen, much less be good if the live-action film is anything to go by. Anyways, fantastic work as always! (and go check out FMA:B:R to some of these and previously stated issues addressed in some fashion: kzbin.info/aero/PLP9JcGPkD9pYW7GSppZz6xIv6bo0Tx0pt )

[@drecellthealive8912]

My favourite part of 03 is the explanation for the existence of homunculi. Them being results of human transmutation attempts (and therefore direct reminders of the "sin" that Ed and Al/Izumi/Hohenheim committed) is just so much more tragic and interesting than "yeah, Hohenheim found a random sentient blob that became a dude and created seven artifical thingies". This is especially true with Envy, who somehow becomes a foil and mirror to both Hohenheim and the brothers. It just punches you a lot more.

[@fieratheproud]

I personally prefer Mangahood's version. I mean, the whole thing with human transmutation is supposed to be that it's impossible to bring someone back to life, right? But with the homunculi being born from that, and looking more or less exactly like the person they were trying to bring back... technically that's a success, isn't it? In Mangahood, the reminders of their sins are the tolls they paid. Ed's leg, Al'd entire body, Izumi's missing internal organs. Also with the Drawf in the Flask, it's not just a random blob Hohenheim found. Hohenheim was a slave whose blood was used by his master, who was an alchemist, to make the Dwarf, the first Homunculus. And then Homunculus ended up manipulating the King of Xerxes so it could get out of that container and as a "gift" also have Hohenheim immortality.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@fieratheproud Still not as emotional or thematically relevant, just standard villain shit

[@blackvalio4060]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 gotta dissagree

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@blackvalio4060 Mangahood fans need to realize that source material accuracy isn't automatically quality

[@blackvalio4060]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 and 03 fans need to realise more screentimes for characters also doesnt mean quality. Im a neutral fan watched both series 2 times. Brotherhood is just better written thats a fact. Havent even read the manga

[@jasonsouth1652]

Despite the problems with 03 , I will always love 03’s magic more being the flow of order and entropy through and between worlds rather than tectonic plate movements in mangahood. I honestly thought you could expand that system so much more. How many worlds are there? How does the flow affect which worlds have access to alchemy and the gate? Also the flow between worlds mirroring alchemy with creation and destruction is great. I would honestly want a redo of 03 expanded into and beyond shamballa

[@shartercam]

1 problem I remember having with Mangahood is that Al’s seal is mentioned as a way he could die so there could be used as tension should danger come his way. But they barely present it as a threat and I almost forgot about it in the final battle arc.

[@Fatimaiqbal2006]

I know right. I was always worried about it getting messed up. Especially when wrath killed martel inside al's armour. I thought her blood might mix with ed's inside the armour and cause problems. I always wondered how ed was able to clean the blood from inside al's armour so easily without messing up the original blood seal.

[@samt3412]

​@fatima-wq1iq maybe the blood in the suit was how he regained his memories?

[@RangerJackWalker]

You could tone down Archer's design and he'd fit in fine, in my opinon.

[@Kujakuseki01]

He’d fit in a lot better in Brotherhood simply bc that series has way way more off the wall crazy shit.

[@dashman8499]

Just always bothered me that Ed needed so long to cope with his auto mail but Archer was up and at em in a couple days

[@madestmadhatter]

It's the head that pushes it to far for me, like the rest of his body could probably do with some touch ups, but you literally just can't replace half of a man's head like that, couple metal plates, some sign that you had to replace his voice box sure, but you don't even have video cameras in universe, how do you build a mechanical eye!

[@Nightman221k]

@@madestmadhatter The fact that a fucking canon pops out his mouth gets me everytime. How does he breath? How does he eat? Did his entire esophagus had to be replaced? What the actual fuck?

[@madestmadhatter]

@@Nightman221k I know it's insane! Like every thing about that, hell how does he even load that thing, how much of his body is just for show!?!

[@Simon-hz7jl]

I enjoyed both animated series. But what made me love brotherhood over 2003 was the characterization of a single character: Hohenheim.

[@cabexus]

Yeah, 2003 Hohenheim was just a deadbeat

[@manofwisdom000]

@@cabexus Hohenheim in Brotherhood was a Gary Stu and a generic shonen cliche dad.

[@SpiderWinry79]

​@@manofwisdom000And Hohenheim in 03 was a bad person that the series tries to make you pass as good. Stop overrating 03. You're not that different from the same Brotherhood fans you're complaining about.

[@manofwisdom000]

@@SpiderWinry79 What you gonna do. Nothing. 🤣🤣🤣 Enjoy the rest of your 2023.

[@SpiderWinry79]

@@manofwisdom000 I was just replying to a random comment I found while watching a video of my favorite anime. But it seems that you are a rather immature person.

[@thehopeofeden597]

I was able to justify most of his problems with 2003, although I also prefer the manga version Rush Valley, because I think 2003 is pretty much a masterpiece. But we got to Termin-archer and even I went “I got nothing.”

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

Yeah the only thing for terminarcher I can say is I preferred him to the undead army. But that isn’t a defense at all instead just being a shift to attacking mangahood at its attempt at a similar idea in its look at warmongerers.

[@macalloway1]

I just think when you consume enough media you learn to accept that compelling stories arent made from a series of unlikely events, but a series of events that are unlikely to occur consecutively. Inconsistent or extreme versions of previously displayed behavior is by its nature what plot is made of. Then there are the incidents of "plot glue"(the protagonist encountering other plot moving characters coincidentally) that can't be realistically explained, but are necessary. Thats just how narratives work. In anime you have to disregard these things more than any other medium simply because it's animated and the genre tackles such a wide range of subjects with no limitation (whatever can be drawn can be made into a show). Basically the process of making compelling art by its very nature causes things to happened that can't be rooted in the rules of the "real" world. What a creator's job is to make the art so good that you don't get hung up on the lack of realism.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Maybe I'm greedy but I would like 2003 continued, just because I can't really think of many animes that had such strong character and a fascinating dark tone. I also felt 2003 was best when it was on a journey the the ending of Shamballa was just that, the start of another journey.

[@beancheesedip8337]

One thing I will disagree with you is the ending of 2003, but in a weird way that you probably won't expect. I also really enjoy the ending. Its pretty messy at points, hucking in random elements haphazardly that almost sort of fit, if the writers took the time to expand on those elements, but all in all, I really love it. The open-ended, bitter-sweet, somber nature of the closing episode feels well earned and perfect for the darker tones the show was going for. However, the one thing I dislike about it is Al losing his memories. That one bit feels really undeserved to me. It annoys me that we go through the whole show, all the horrific trials and tribulations they suffer, just for Al to not know. They might've been trying to evoke a "death of a character" feeling, like Marvel did with Gamora in Endgame, while still maintaining that character, but Al didn't lose any characterization, really. He didn't revert as a person, like Gamora did. I'd actually argue that Al was more steadfast on his beliefs than Ed was. Al never took a life, Al was the rock, the constant, and its obvious by the end that he would remain that way. However, losing his brother, the one person he cherishes most in the world, *and* his memories feels like they were just trying to double down on the bitterness so hard that it actually harms the sweet aspect that they were, also, trying to go for. And yeah, Conqueror of Shambala is a mess, but a mess that I enjoy nonetheless. Its a movie that tries to wrap things up neatly, but it feels like at least a third of the script is missing, with barely a sentence to lampshade any potential problem that might arise. Interesting premise, but very flawed execution, and the reunion at the end is extremely bullshit. So much so that in the Japanese commentary you can actually hears the actors joking about how Al being there makes absolutely no sense. And again, the writers focused so hard on trying to give the perfect conclusion to Ed and Al that they ended up just dropping any potential satisfying ending for every other character. I guess Winry can get fucked, no satisfying conclusion for her, or Mustang. Everything is worse and nobody feels better, except for Ed and Al. Hooray... Edit: By the way, I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that the original intention of the movie was that it was supposed to be a 5 or 6 episode miniseries, but they were told by the higher ups that they were only allowed to have a movie. I'm sure even more conflicts rose up with CoS while it was in production.

[@akward4210]

If I might add my interpretation to the reason as to why I think Al losing his memories at the end works and is actually not as bitter as you think, I think that Al lost his memories because they were used as a part of Ed's sacrifice to bring Al back to life. This reassures that despite all the struggles, pitfalls, and loses that the brothers experienced throughout their journey, the time that they spent together and everything they went through was still worth something positive in the end, even if it wasn't exactly what they wanted, and that all that struggle was actually valuable. Hohenheim alludes to this as Ed leaves Hohenheim's apartment in the other world, which I found to be rather cathartic given the circumstances and Dante's revelations about Equivalent Exchange. Giving Al his memories back in CoS just undid what I thought was a better conclusion for the series.

[@Killer-hy9ly]

I hope that someday the studios will recognize 03 as having a well done story in its own right and make an official proper ending in the form of a sequel sequel season like Shambala was originally supposed to be. If I heard of it and new the date it premiered I'd watch it the instant It aired! Here's to hoping 🤞

[@tetitous]

As much as I know that fma cos is not that good, I can't help but like this movie, more for what it could have been than for what it is ever since I learned of the proto script. If they decided to make a new season instead of a movie followed by a reboot, I feel like we could have had something memorable, the kind of content that would make people see the entire FMA franchise as an amazing experience, where people would tell you "you can enjoy both!" instead of "don't look at this one, the other is better" Bruh I swear if I could I would ask the creators directly to make an fma reboot as a 13 episode series, and I would gladly help fund it, I'd love to see it onscreen so badly

[@citral3621]

“There are none. Goodbye.”

[@ejm51395]

2003 had so much potential and definitely had such a great start. However I think just as Brotherhood has a problem with too fast pacing 2003 has the opposite problem-it can really drag. I feel the filler episodes had a problem with rehashing ideas and themes we saw in a previous episode and it slows everything down, not to mention at times is down right preachy. I also think the ending section just goes completely off the rails. There are a lot of good ideas but it’s so chaotic and all over the place. Plus, while I know the ending fits the tone of 2003 and there is Conquer of Shamballa…I hate the ending. It made me so mad when I watched it. I much prefer the neater, tightly connected Brotherhood-happy ending and all. Great video as always!!

[@velvetdarksoul8741]

2003 ending always made more sense, the world isn't happy, things don't always end happily ever after, After its Equivalent Exchange for Al to live Ed gives up his life in that world with Al

[@ejm51395]

@@velvetdarksoul8741 I see where you’re coming from-and trust me I am painfully aware the world is not a happy place. And as I said I do think it fits the direction 2003 went to. I personally just enjoy the happy ending in brotherhood because life is so hard.

[@velvetdarksoul8741]

@@ejm51395 i prefer the realistic end for me FMA always felt like it shouldn't end as happily ever after, it ends in a way where what they wanted is brought but they also loose something in return, you live with what you have and just try and make the best of what life hands ya

[@ejm51395]

@@velvetdarksoul8741 I totally get where you’re coming from and I don’t necessarily disagree with your points, but I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one friend :) I get that maybe that happily ever after isn’t maybe the best fitting but it personally left me so satisfied and hopeful, and that last quote from Edward has truly inspired me and helped me get through a lot of shit.

[@gd5466]

If you find Fma 03 to be too preachy, then I don’t want to imagine what you think of Brotherhood.

[@Gennaropacchiano]

Ngl, Archer is actually one of my favourite addition to 2003. He is quiet, calculated, cold-blooded and ambitious, and I think it rappresents perfectly the whole "corrupted side" of the army. But every time I see terminarcher I cringe so damn hard. Like...why on earth did they do this? Just why? It's like the authors were like "aw, our characters need to fight someone in the finale, what can we use? Hey, what about that army guy?" Like, really, why couldn't they just use someone else? Why not use a group of soldiers with automail? Or an homunculus? Or just another powerful alchemist? Like, really, why bother bringing archer back if it has to be like this?

[@reinerzufall2070]

Honestly...kimley i feel was archer done way better. I honestly forgot archer existed. And now i cant forget termi archer

[@Gennaropacchiano]

@@reinerzufall2070 i believe 2003 kinda split the original character of Kimblee. Basically, the name, character, and powers are given to the 2003 version of Kimblee, while Archer takes his more calm and composed side.

[@karlgrimm3027]

I always thought that the fact that MangaHood never did anything with the creature created by Ed and Al's attempt to resurrect Trisha was a real storytelling failure. Forget Chekhov's gun that's Chekhov's bazooka. MangaHood never does anything with it though. '03 has a showdown between Ed and Al and the Trisha homunculus, a person who is both their mother and their daughter. Really have to give it to '03 for not wasting this opportunity.

[@sarafontanini7051]

on the other hand....why WOULD they just leave it alone? it was some horrible monstrosity tht was possibly living an existence of pure agony, why WOULDN'T Pinako just kill it.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@sarafontanini7051 You'd think Pinako would have to talk about it, that's not the sort of thing you leave out of the story.

[@haileyparsons3844]

They burried it, because they didn’t want anything to do with it. It was a symbolic and they did do something, they unburied and helped Ed moved on. It was a symbolic methaphor, about how to not let the past define you. 03 ruined the Trisha Homunculus, but letting her get defeated easily because the plot demanded also Alphonse wasn’t even there it was Between Ed, Izumi and Trisha homounculus.

[@jacksonschwarz9592]

@@haileyparsons3844 Uhhh… the fight with Trisha in ‘03 definitely wasn’t easy. There’s an entire 2/3rds of an episode dedicated to it, and Lust is also killed during the conflict. I don’t know where you got that Izumi was there, because she only shows up after Sloth has been transmuted into ethanol (and thus defeated). Alphonse, on the other hand, was definitely present and participating during the battle.

[@Ozgarthefighter]

The creature was an empty vessel that Al's soul had attached to. It was essentially an incomplete humonculous. All the Chekov guns surrounding the creature were fired. The lesson from FMAB that the 2003 version misses is that it's impossible to raise the dead, the concept is just a honey trap for Father to gain his sacrifices.

[@yaelthesnail]

Some more extremely convenient plot points: * Ed just happens to show up in Briggs when Sloth is digging under it. * Winry just happens to overhear Ed and Al discussing Scar * The one Ishbalan Ed and Al happen to have a history with is also responsible for killing Winry's parents. 03 actually fixed the last one by having Mustang meet the Elrics through his "connection" to the Rockbells, as opposed to it just being a very convenient coincidence.

[@Lowart]

Yeah there are a good number more convenient plot points in both 2003 and Mangahood, but I didn't want to spend too long on that part of the video.I do like having some more of them listed here though, so thanks for the comment :)

[@haileyparsons3844]

Sloth was already digging underneath it, He had been digging underneath it for years. They said this in the show. As for the Scar being responsible for the murder of Winry’s parents that’s explained more in the magna.

[@jacksonschwarz9592]

@@haileyparsons3844 just because he’d been digging under there for years doesn’t change the fact that Sloth being present at Briggs is a plot convenience. Ed and Al just so happen to arrive at the one place where Sloth is digging.

[@yaelthesnail]

@@haileyparsons3844 It's irrelevant how long he'd been digging. Ed and Al still showed up conveniently when he just happened to be under Briggs. If they'd shown up as a result of reports of strange activity at Briggs due to his digging, that would be one thing. But they were there for unrelated reasons. And again, more details about Scar and Winry's parents doesn't change the improbable coincidence involved. Scar didn't meet the Elrics because of their connection to Winry. He met the Elrics for completely unrelated reasons, and they just happened to be close friends with Winry. These are all still plot contrivances. I noticed them in the manga years before Brotherhood came out.

[@haileyparsons3844]

@@jacksonschwarz9592 No he was almost finished with the circle at that point, so it wasn’t a plot convince, it would have happened regardless if Ed and Alphonse didn’t show up. Since The main characters had nothing to do with Slow digging out of the ground at Northern Command that was all on Sloth. Sloth didn’t even know the Elrics, never heard about them, he had been underground digging for a long time, around 300 years as Sloth himself had stated.

[@imperialprimarch4442]

To be fair to Arakawa, it still amazed me how well written her characters, and plot points are with the amount she created and it still turns out so great.

[@manofwisdom000]

What exactly was so well written in Arakawa’s work?

[@ArcTrooperRod-269]

7:50 Yeah, Winry has always been one of my favorite characters not just of FMA, but fiction in general, for the way her qualities of Brains, Brawn & Motherhood clash each other making her the way she is, but in this part of the 2003 version she felt like she was just bein mean & jerk for no reason nor satisfactory pay off

[@Cilibi]

I’m pretty sure that the freak Zeplin accident implies that Ed ended up killing the Edward on our side of the gate when he went through. There can only be one version of a person on one side at a time.

[@mangodango1733]

Just remember we may not have mustang brutalizing envy in 03 but we do have Al becoming the stone and that part was just chefs kiss

[@Shoulderpads-mcgee]

Still watching the video, but I kind of figured Mustang and Marcoh’s candidate status also came from their positions of grief and regret, that it’s less about their skills in alchemy, and more about their manipulability. Mustang makes for a good candidate because you could use Hughes as a bargaining chip, or any of his other weaknesses, like when using Hawkeye as a tool against him instead. With Marcoh, you could manipulate him with the promise of any kind of repentance for what he did in Ishval, perhaps the prospect of bringing just one of those poor people back. Of course...it kind of falls apart when you remember they know Ed and Al, know it has dire consequences, and that it’s impossible

[@yorefilmsproductions629]

Mustang should've died in 2003. I almost believed he did when that scene came up. It would have been a perfect end to him, as it was already clear that his chances of becoming fuhrer were already next to none. Nevertheless, the silence, followed by Chopin's music, and Hawkeye's cries were already good wnough to act as a proper send off.

[@genyakozlov1316]

The ending is dark enough already, that would make it too much for me.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Feels a little to clear cut, which isn't what 03 was going for.

[@In-The-Zone]

Marco "I can destory philosopher stones!" Also Marco *Gets kidnapped and held hostage by literal philosopher stones*

[@Alexbancas]

One of the saddest thing it’s that I expected more of the magic system, it looked so cool I felt like it needed more development, not necessarily more explained but after a few episodes it felt stale, and by the ending nothing changed the final battle felt sooo small

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

Yeah Arakawa talked about how she was far more interested in alchemy in its thematic tie ins with its philosophies and with equivalent exchanges parallel’s to one of her family’s mantras of “you don’t work, you don’t eat,” than she was concerned or interested in exploring its applications or potential as a magic/combat system, which I do think is somewhat to the franchise’s detriment

[@ThePreciseClimber]

@@haosmagnaingram6992 In Witch Hat Atelier, the magic system is both explained properly and has thematic significance.

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

@@ThePreciseClimber not saying it can’t be both, just stating that a lot of the reason why was because that wasn’t the aspect of alchemy that interested Arakawa. I myself am disappointed by the lack of interesting applications. And alchemy is explained properly the issue is it doesn’t get applied enough in creative ways that take the concept to the cooler areas it can achieve.

[@SKOT_3]

Conqueror of Shamballa is the kind of movie that would benefit from lasting longer. So many great ideas, so much potential that got cut and held back. I would love to get a director's cut or something similar.

[@ComputerJunkie00]

I've always loved 2003's ending, though I include Shamballa in it. For all its issues (leaving Winry behind with little to do in particular leaves me with a, I dunno, lonely feeling I guess), the ending of Shamballa was probably the absolute best-case scenario the Elric brothers could hope for. Ed finding a way of getting back to his own world was always a pipe dream and I think early on in the film he's slowly beginning to realize that. Given the main series' overall tone near the end and how crushing and depressing it was, it makes sense how the ending of the film would be so bittersweet--they're together again, but forced to leave behind everything and everyone they've ever known.

[@Smellbringer]

I think the thing with Mustang's sacrifice makes sense because I always thought of it like this, they wanted to let the sacrifices do it on their own in order to maintain a sense of normalcy. So Mustang was allowed to run around in the hopes that he'd stumble his way into it naturally. Then they tried forcing it, accelerating Mustang's natural reaction. But when he refused they just said "Fuck it" and gambled. But that's just me and if it does bug you more than it does me I get it. That said, the whole finale in FMA 2003 with Rose and Archer and Dante is sorta where I go "time out, we're done here." It's goddamn ridiculous and contrived and seriously what the fuck is going on. I'm basically numb by Shamballa.

[@D.Peterson]

I know this is a year late, but my understanding of it was the Gate of Truth (also called the Gate of Alchemy) is causally linked to their alchemic ability. This is shown when Ed sacrifices his gate and can no longer perform alchemy. My guess is that one must be a powerful enough alchemist to even go through their gate, but its definitely not explained.

[@manofwisdom000]

Ya’ll say anything.

[@metalgearbear9748]

It did get wacky at the end, but Brotherhood felt so boring and predictable with the end-game shonen trope "friendship defeats God'.

[@whoevencares123]

I actually had thought about redesigning Archer before. Maybe even completely rewriting him. My initial idea was to just give him prosthetics before the whole transformation into this abomination of a cyborg happens. But instead of making it super exaggarated, we could go for something less drastic but still unusual, for example he could have his entire upper body up to neck be mechanized or maybe just the half of his body. His face is unnaturally pale which could actually be a really cool detail to hint at his inhumane nature, but he looks barely different than any other background soldier.

[@awuuwa]

2:34 I was under the impression that the Father saw humans as meaningless worthless waste. In the way that there is no need to worry about them, as in the father did not think that the humans could possibly figure out a way to stop him.

[@DaWoWzer]

2003 gets so much unwarranted hate, I feel like it was a better story in general if for no other reason than being a bit less....generic? tropey? as BH and Manga.

[@mr.l3938]

Facts dw most of the hate comes from the Brotherhood fanbase because it's not part of the manga which is pretty stupid reason I do agree that both versions are great and I really do agree with your opinion but don't worry you're not alone I prefer it too😤🔥🔥

[@haileyparsons3844]

It’s honestly mostly the ending of 2003, that people don’t like. Myself included

[@mr.l3938]

@@haileyparsons3844 no not really the ending is actually great its basically the core messages of the story and Edwards growth but a living embodiment of all of it and the other side of the gate stuff is foreshadowed when in a flashback when Ed first went into the gate there's many flashes of images and if u pause it has actual real life photos of ww1 and the creation of the Philosopher's Stone is another foreshadow of the gate everything is connected to the core messages of unfairness and imperfection every episode starts with one of the brothers telling us about the Law of Equivalent Exchange but the series always questions and breaks that Law and so the intro slowly changes like the characters showing the truth I have to respectfully disagree

[@UnifiedEntity]

It was generically melodramatic the way darker anime is instead of just being good.

[@HellRider_]

Regarding Dante's (lack of) actions towards Ed's death: That could've been easily fixed by having Envy kill Ed in an impulse of rage and have Dante reprimand him for it. Envy, having a fit of joy after achieving one of his ultimate goals, is beyond listening or reasoning at this point, so Dante punishes him by sending him to the gate. It's been a while since I've seen '03, so I forgot how he ended up in the gate in the actual episode.

[@JohnnyTightlips2007]

I also kind of wish they had some means to use Dante in the Conqueror of Shambala. Eckhart didn't have much going for her and could easily have been used as a vehicle to bring the original villain back for a final confrontation. It didn't really feel like Ed got to settle the score with her either. (Maybe that was the point but the movie could have done that instead of giving a lackluster replacement) Originally her demise was left open ended as both her and Gluttony were missing in the elevator. Dante knew she was in a bad situation but was still ready to try something. I wonder what would happen if Full Metal got a new series that used both elements of 2003 and Brotherhood.

[@ChiisaiTenshii]

Eckhart really suffered from the fact that Dante was already a great villain, and you don't want to make a Nazi villain "likeable" in the way Dante is to fans. Your idea definitely would be more interesting, but I think the writers wouldn't give up a chance to have Dante by the symbolism of being eaten by her own "gluttony".

[@cascadia8771]

​@@ChiisaiTenshii​@Leveler I kinda like the direction they were going with Eckhart as sort of a tragic villain, wanting to go to the other world but doing so drives her mad because of the gate infection thing. Plus I'm heavily biased towards her because I think she's super cute. I will say though that I think she shouldn't have died at the end and should have been stuck in Amestris or something and appear in an epilogue.

[@Lenvyathan]

Personally my biggest problem with mangahood is the huge amount of plot armor on Mustang, as well as them using the philosopher's stone in the end to restore his eyes for an overly syrupy and hypocritical happy ending. He is a much more compelling character in 2003 imo, (there is even a comically fitting scene saying he isn't a brat who would plot revenge against Hughes' killer). 2003's ending was satisfying for me, including Conqueror of Shamballa: even if it continued from the rather sad ending of the TV anime, the movie was still adequately bittersweet and provided some closure for some of the loose ends.

[@godzilla2k26]

I thought Shamballa took place in the series and not after also that it was Brother hood?

[@xviinaichi3793]

I don't see how its hypocritical? Mustang using the philosopher ties with the philosopher stone of rather not using it at all and letting the souls just be trapped inside. Let their souls be used for good and the philosopher made from the ishvalans making it even more fitting. The decision of him using the philosopher is a bit manga because the reason why he even used had to do with a "leader needs their vision to see a better future." His sight was undoubtedly really important when he became a fuhrer.

[@Lenvyathan]

@@xviinaichi3793 I think it would have been a lot more empowering for him to lead without his sight just to show his resolve. When in anime important characters suffer a loss and it's just handed back to them at the end anyway, it undermines the loss in the first place (not to mention Mustang was still hella OP without his sight with Hawkeye helping him). By hypocritical I mean the fact that they did everything they could to avoid using the Philosopher's stone up to that point, the Elric brothers even choosing not to use it for themselves after all their struggling. All that only to end up using it anyway on Mustang, who I don't even think needed it that badly compared to the Elric brothers. The ending was already too syrupy for my taste, and that was just the last nail in the coffin.

[@xolotl3383]

i swear they DID go searching for marcoh in 2003 so maybe you got that wrong because i vividly remember them searching him out

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

They did in 2003, but the part of the video where lowart talks about the boys just happening to run into by coincidence out of convenience is the part of the video exclusively talking about mangahood

[@HVST8935]

"See! You have tricked yourself. You blocked out the memory of this because it's so stupid you can't believe it's real." - Digibro on when people forget about Robo-Frank Archer

[@madestmadhatter]

Honestly I loved Termin-Archer, up until he spoke, I was getting some real body horror elements on him, like that movie virus, had he been a corpse they piggy backed some bullshit cyborg parts onto he would've been amazing... Then he started talking, and the mouth gun, but still kinda love it.

[@CloudMountainJuror]

@@madestmadhatter This is a great point actually - if he didn’t talk, he’d be way more effective.

[@TheCreepypro]

it funny cause I for one didn't like the ending or 2003 that much and preferred what the movie did to wrap things up that being said I do agree with what you said about Izumi, Mustang, and Winry they should have gotten more screen time so props to you for translating that book to give us that info from the director but there are things from 2003 I kind of forgot so I think it is time for a rewatch cause I do love the series even though it has its flaws like that thing about Ed fixing his own arm I kind of agree with, if Winry fixed it again but faster or better yet if she already had an upgrade made in case Ed broke it again, I always felt that would have been better but at the end those are just nitpicks great video looking forward to your next one

[@DrDolan2000]

I never had a problem with Terminator Archer. In fact, I like it because I find it creepy. It is a little silly, but whatever. Your other problems with 2003 I definitely agree with as well as Mangahood As for Conqueror of Shambala, I think it's great; but the cut content could've made it amazing. Oh, well

[@radboyrandom1976]

I so wish that "The conqueror of Shamballa" was actually a 13 episode follow up season. It would have been much much better that way

[@eataneraser]

Damn, this saga is almost over? Holy cow.

[@rpsc8000]

The Mustang being a candidate as well as Marco was mainly explained for me when high command asked about Kimblee. „He probably couldn’t muster up the nerve to open the portal“ is a very telling line because Kimblee is a detached psychopath and a talented alchemist so surely he’d be able to open the portal. Moreover the military has philosopher stones and can heal Kimblee but they don’t consider him? but Mustang has a lot driving him like his trauma and feeling of responsibility. Pride explains to Al that they chose him because of his willpower and determination, same with Ed. Mustang sears his wounds closed and kills lust without flinching and it’s very likely his actions in the war were monitored by the military too. The homunculi were likely very aware about mustangs determination from his guilt and feelings of responsibility. Additionally the high command talks about Kimblee not having the nerve right after talking about mustang. Implying they know he would be a good possibility in that regard.

[@irishcream9004]

I always put Eds death in 2003 to Envy not really giving a shit about the plan

[@deVillefort63]

Correct. He basically flat out states that he doesn't give a crap about the plan one way or the other except insofar as it: 1. Gives him a chance to vent his jealousy by killing Hohenheim and being a jerk to Ed and Al [and the world at large], and 2. Gives him a chance to be a sadist for the fun of it. He's shown frequently testing the limits of what he can get away with irrespective of Dante and Pride's plans if doing so would better accommodate his own goals- killing Ed is just more of that. Dante being Dante, she just shrugs it off regardless of what she initially planned and uses it as an opportunity to try and justify herself to somebody else. [In this case, Alphonse.]

[@Queen3210]

Thank you very much for addressing Mustangs part of Mangahood! It never made sense to me. Plus the way the scene played out just sounded more like the writer couldn't figure out how to move the plot along (especially when Mustang still refused despite Hawkeye's potential death).

[@GHeinz]

just got my wife to watch all of 03 with me. it has been a few years since i last watched it, and i have to say for the first time, the last 5-10 episodes struck me as a little rushed. i am still happy with the ending itself in principle, it’s just the way everything played out was a bit sloppy. it definitely could have used a few extra episodes just to allow the ending sequence to breathe. still, 03 always has a place close to my heart, and I still regard it more highly than brotherhood.

[@sherman614]

To me, the original anime was darker, and had more impact. The overall message and symbolism meant much more to me. Brotherhood (though I suppose is more like the original Manga) is much more "fun" and has more of the traditional anime tropes.

[@Mumps999]

Mangahood has one Plothole that makes so angry because it is about my favourite character. It’s about how Wrath got his wound like how did Bucaneer even move several meters while he was almost dead and it is said the whole series that Bradley‘s eye can see everything and is completely broken, yet he can’t see an 2 meter‘s big giant man who is on the verge of death rushing towards him. And there’s no way that Bucaneer could hide behind Fu.

[@solacehealer7589]

I feel like the Mustang being a sacrifice was a last minute decision by Pride since he couldn't get his hands on Marco, since he would be far easier to use. Mustang was always an alternate. It's also possible that Kimblee was being considered, but Pride killed him earlier, and he forced the issue to cover up that mistake. Finally, it appears that the gold-toothed doctor was simply a psycho obsessed with pushing people to their limits, and he was pushing for Mustang to be the fifth for his own reasons.

[@Ekami-chan]

I could have swore Roy punishing himself and Envy not being to transform (since it's a world void of alchemy) were things spelled out by the movie...

[@Lowart]

Roy punishing himself is definitely touched on, but I still would have loved more of a focus on it via that cut scene. As far as Envy being unable to transform, I don't believe it does, but I could be wrong

[@genyakozlov1316]

Envy being unable to transform should be obvious since it is a world void of alchemy, but since he speaks I don't think him loosing his mind is canon to the final version.

[@ChiisaiTenshii]

I always thought it was obvious Envy couldn't transform because that was the way he lived constantly in 03. He wouldn't just stay as a dragon for 2 years, and remain caught by the Thule Society if he could help it. Also, considering he seems to be unable to regenerate (from the spears), that also seemed like another sign that something was up.

[@gabetalks9275]

I have two issues with Brotherhood. 1. I don't like Ed's vow to not kill is handled. I think his reasoning behind it is that he's holding himself responsible for Nina and Alexander's deaths, and he's still convinced that he made his Mom suffer even more in the afterlife, on top of the fact that seeing everything the military is doing with alchemy makes him apprehensive to use alchemy to kill because he thinks it will make him like the military. But this doesn't really get explained much in Brotherhood. Instead, it's just portrayed as good guys don't kill, even though this is a literal war where killing is often necessary, which makes Ed look childish. He fight with Kimblee where he cuts his hands instead of going for his head always annoys me for this reason. Because he had such a wide open opportunity to help move the plot forward and actually realize that you need to make sacrifices for the greater good sometimes, but instead of he basically throws in the towel and hands Kimblee the victory as he escapes, while setting the plot back and almost dying in the process. It's really annoying to me. 2. I hate that Lan Fan gets sidelined in the final arc. She goes to search for someone. Bradley or Father, I forget, and she just gets lost, or something? The fact that I can't what she did at the series' climax is bad enough, but it gets even dumber. She watches Fu die in battle vs Bradley. I...If she was there watching and able to fight, why didn't she jump in??? Because she didn't do anything besides interrogate Bradley as he was dying, and that's not Lan Fan being an active character. And she just showed up to find Bradley laying there. Where did she come from? How did she find them? I hate it man. Lan Fan's potential for the finale got completely butchered and it sucks.

[@prideguy3233]

I don't think they were implying "good guys don't kill". We have good guys in the story who do kill and it's never depicted as wrong. And I really like Ed's refusal to kill. Mainly because we see the direct consequences of that philosophy. And Ed acknowledges those consequences but keeps up with his standards. Which goes on to actually impress Kimbly who's own moral standards boil down too "stand by your convictions". Ed not killing is presented as both a virtue and a flaw.

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

@@prideguy3233 are there actually any negative consequences from Ed’s no kill policy?

[@prideguy3233]

@@haosmagnaingram6992 Well there was the whole getting yeeted down a hole and a piece or metal stuck in his body that very nearly killed him.

[@xtoadsannom6704]

About 1. : I think you just need to compare Ed's dogged adherence to that policy to Al's rather quick dismissal of it (using a philosopher's stone and then being an active participant in a strategy to kill Kimblee) to realize that Ed was really, really traumatized by the botched resurrection of their mother and the state of Alphonse's body.