The Psychology of Lying: The Last Of Us - Why We Lie - Therapist Reacts!

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Survivor's guilt? Trauma? What is the reason why Joel LIES to Ellie in "The Last of Us!" Psychotherapist Georgia Dow gives us the details!
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[@GeorgiaDow]

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[@dark_seraph582]

Yo, can you do Cowboy Bebop?

[@TheRuneTail]

He's never been a hero, he's a survivalist. It's why he's so guarded and doesn't trust so easily cause he's seen the darkness in humanity too many times.

[@mangafreak923]

Not to mention he was also part of that darkness too. Like Tommy said, he still has nightmares from those days.

[@TheRuneTail]

@@mangafreak923 exactly. Joel did whatever to survive and Tommy got outta that live but if he's having nightmares about what he did shows it wasn't just smuggling

[@smeva26]

yeah you could almost argue wtf is there to save anyway? lol

[@nihlify]

He's 100 % written like an antihero

[@TheRuneTail]

@Jim Harrington not Joel. He's too selfish to be considered one

[@charlesedwinbooks]

The Last of Us was such a raw, impactful narrative. I remember having to literally stop playing the game at some points because I was just in shock. Like, the end of spring. I needed to process what happened and I couldn't just go from what happened, right into the next moment. I had to quit the game for a day or two to just get myself back in order. I remember that final sequence when Joel goes back for Ellie. I had that same unstoppable anger and rage about what was about to happen. And along with Joel I shared that emotion of "Im taking Ellie home and I'll stop anyone, ANYONE, who gets in my way." From a gaming standpoint I still wish there was an option for 2 different endings. But from a player and story standpoint I would've chosen that route anyway.

[@GeorgiaDow]

it was interesting that they didnt though forcing you to be part of joels journey

[@chunkystains8950]

Oh man...I think I had to stop & take a breather after meeting the brothers & experiencing what happens to them. It just cuts to summer afterwards & takes it easy for awhile but it just happened to us. 😖 I wonder if they did that on purpose.

[@lindaschreifels9889]

@@chunkystains8950 that actually makes sense, to jump without processing. Joel pretty consistently refuses to discuss the deaths of people impact when they happen, frequently saying that they’re not going to talk about it and move on.

[@Sleezy42]

@@GeorgiaDow I think that choice is made specifically in this series because there are a lot of games where the player gets to shape the narrative to fit them. In this series this isn't the player's story, it's Joel and Ellie's. Whether the player agrees with the choices or not they have to explore the character's reality and personally I think that's why this series is so impactful.

[@morgiri9512]

@@GeorgiaDow can you do Johnny depp vs Amber heard trail.

[@mr.l2837]

Before becoming a father myself I would have had a harder time agreeing Joel. He makes a selfish decision to the potential detriment of humanity. Now that I have a daughter of my own, the decision is tied up in so many different areas of emotion and instinct that I cant fault Joel for his decision. Objectively it was selfish but asking a parent to be objective about their child's survival is extremely difficult.

[@GeorgiaDow]

yes that is a true point it does change perspective. I wonder how that would change the choice people would make if we were given the choice

[@chipsalom]

@@GeorgiaDow ohh, you mean if given a choice to play Joel as a series of one's own choices, or to play through Joel's role, what difference being a parent might make? If that's what you do mean, that is a really interesting idea

[@sgtmian]

i'm not a parent, so i don't know. but joel has only known ellie for about a year at this point. and while he has fatherly feelings, she's not actually his daughter.

[@themeanlesbeann]

@@sgtmian Blood relation does not determine family. Joel spent a year with Ellie getting to know her, protecting her, teaching her. He loves her like he hasn't loved anyone since Sarah died, and Ellie is 100% his family by the end of the game.

[@chriswatt6835]

I do not think Joel did the right thing. I played this game and the hospital scene disturbed and troubled me on a deep level. I know why that is a cohesive and sensible part of the story and would make sense for someone with Joel's experiences, but trauma can only be used to "justify" horrific things for so long. Marlene was his ally. He didn't honor Tess's sacrifice when push came to shove. He wronged so many people who lost or sacrificed so much or wanted them to succeed and hurt people who had never wronged him, innocent or otherwise. What about preventing future trauma and helping other people who have been bitten not go through what Henry did once his brother was infected? Joel made a very selfish decision, even though it stopped the cessation of Ellie's existence. He did not save her and that is the important part, as the Last of Us Part 2 dives into. Even the argument of wanting your child to survive at any cost as a parent is dicey at best and definitely morally flawed. I believe that doing right by your child is allowing and empowering them to make their own decisions, and be at peace with their existence, especially if it is an existence they want to continue having, and, specifically to this scenario, not survival at any cost (because eventually you undermine yourself and the costs come back to bite you) and Ellie and Joel sacrificed so much to get to this goal only to make that all for nothing. Ellie did not want to continue on and he took that from her without her consent. A good parent in this context is to respect your offspring's autonomy and right to choose, while also encouraging them in their emotional need and cautioning them to be sure about a choice that is literally terminal in this way, and supporting their decision and process, irrespective of your needs. A parent places their child before them and Joel did not do that. His stutter in telling her that they stopped looking for a cure is conflict vocalized and he knows he was wrong to do this to her, as he could barely enforce his own lie. In real life, this does not mean you encouraged your child to self sacrifice but to make their own decision. You don't have to approve, but it is not your place to take their choice, in the same way certain states are mandating the lack of choice for abortion going on right now. Ellie is not a child at 14, but quickly approaching adulthood and has been asked to take on an adult responsibility by the very people who regard her as a child when it comes to her thoughts. Despite being regarded as a child, where everyone behaves like she is "just cargo", to quote Tess, she knew what she wanted given the power she possessed and to bring herself some relief, by the gift of her life, which she did not know for certain would require its end even though that is what she wanted, so nor can she be called suicidal, as the choice for her existence to end was not something she would have known about until it was upon her and she made no such plans to end her life. Also, it is hinted while not clear, that the Fireflies do not ask for her consent. It is unclear if she ever regained consciousness from her near drowning before being prepped for surgery. As per usual her needs are sidelined in the quest for everyone else by everyone else and she is treated as little more than a pawn.

[@Jeffdraws101]

I need the follow up video addressing Last of Us 2 where Joel tells Ellie he would do it all over again. Ellie returns with “I don’t think I can ever forgive you for that. …but I would like to try” And she never gets that chance.

[@user-jt1js5mr3f]

I think she does. Sadly, he just isn't there when it happens.

[@SaddenedSoul]

I think it's in that moment that Ellie understands the depth of Joel's love for her, which allows her to rediscover the depth of her love for him. It's interesting how later in the game, when faced with the various arguments against Joel's decision, she doesn't offer any rebuttals. Even if she agrees with them, her vendetta is based on what she perceives as failing the man who absolutely loved her and would have been always in her corner no matter what. Both Joel and Ellie transcend (transgress?) conventional morality, and I think many people struggle with their decisions because of that.

[@WilliamJMilliken]

I lost a child some years back in an accident. Years later, I had a daughter, just at the same time this came out. She was 3 month early, and both her and her mother nearly died. We have to place her in a NICU for three months that was an hour plus away from home, and my job at the time would not allow me time off. I couldn't afford the constant drive back and forth, so the mom stayed there while I worked during the week. I lost myself in the game...the only thing I could think of to take my mind off of my worry which was crushing. I identified with Joel on so many levels. Sarah broke me hard, but as things developed with Ellie, and Joel rose up to defend her, I guess I projected a bit..like in saving Ellie, I was saving my own child. I understand Joel. Honestly, I would do the same. There is no right answer to that paradoxical question, there is just the answer that you can live with. Love your work still

[@Puppy_Puppington]

Wow. Life is hard man :( I hate that so many good decent people suffer. I myself have also gone through tremendous traumas & life & loss & I’m in so much daily pain & ignored by doctors & have been malpracticed on & made worse by them.. the laws & system are against me & the amount of physical & mental pain I am in makes me wish life just ended or I was never born like most the time. I know most of us see ourselves as the main characters, as we are in our lives, & that we don’t deserve so many injustices & etc. but I think honestly, we don’t. Not everyone is an egocentric jerk who hurts others or impacts them negatively and then whines when they get it “bad”. Some of us are decent people. It just sucks. People who have lost a lot of suffered through a lot usually can empathize or sympathize way easier with others and Connect better. So I guess that’s a silver lining. I rather be with or near those people than the other people who don’t know how it feels and don’t honestly care much… those people suck cause they don’t care or think about it until it happens to them…

[@amya_25]

Hope she’s doing alright today!

[@WilliamJMilliken]

@@amya_25 Thank you! Wouldn't you know it, she's a healthy vibrant little girl about to start 3rd grade. She has a huge heart and a sweet temperament, and brings me more joy than I ever imagined possible

[@MrTosser2011]

So sorry to hear this brother I completely understand how you could identify with Joel I’ve got 3 daughters myself

[@amya_25]

@@WilliamJMilliken Oh my! I’m so glad to hear that! 😄 You’ll have a great rest of your life together!

[@gr1mreap3rz15]

i remember asking my dad what he thought of joel lying to ellie - both of us played the game totally separately, so i had no idea how he'd react. he told me that he agreed with him, no hesitation. i was a few years younger than ellie when the game first came out, and every time he looked at her he saw me (same with sarah), and therefore he had absolutely 0 problem with joel lying and saving her - because "no good parent would willingly kill their child, no matter who it would save". (for the record, i agree with him, but seeing as how i'm an 18 year old kid with no children of my own, i think his perspective is more interesting than mine lol)

[@neiren_]

Your comparison to Ellie’s identity crisis reminds me a lot of Korra from The Legend of Korra’s identity crisis. Being told she is the Avatar and that her sole purpose in this world and for existing is to help and protect people and bring balance to the world - but in a world where she realizes people don’t even want her and even go as far as to wipe her (more specifically The Avatar State) out of existence.

[@astridrodriguez890]

So true! It would be epic if Georgia reacts to The Legend of Korra and Avatar: The Last Airbender before the live action of ATLA comes out on Netflix, since it'll probably be quite different from the original. Regardless, this was a great video (as always).

[@Poke-ladd]

There were parts of Korra I liked, but even though it was stated I’m still mad about losing the whole past lives thing cause I feel like she should have talked to the other more

[@bug-on-a-drug]

Yes! I'm glad someone saw the similarities, too!

[@pohia]

TLOU is one of my favorite stories… probably ever. There are no heroes and there are no villains, there are only human beings trying to survive and protect what they love (the second game doubles down on that narrative). I would absolutely LOVE to see you talk about more scenes or characters from this universe!!

[@dominicidecorvus]

Yara and Lev are heroes. Yara saved Abbys life from being strung up and disemboweled and lev saved Dina and Ellies lives from Abby.

[@iamfriendly6483]

yeah TLOU is the most human stories of all time Like literally It is the only game that gave me massive emotions. From the story, the characters, the plot and the stakes This game is Life.

[@DialloMoore503]

Robert isn’t a villain? LOL!!

[@pohia]

@@DialloMoore503 robert? the guy from the very beginning? are you being serious? lmao i can’t tell

[@butchishere]

The Hunters are villains. David is a villain. The Reapers are villains etc course there's villains just because the lines are blurry for other characters doesn't mean the absence of villains.

[@icywinterof88]

I remember reaching this end and after a long period of silence and shock I just said "I get it". I think of my little brothers and I already know if I had to choose them or the world, I would always choose them. I do think joel didnt make the right choice, because he took away Ellie's. But I think he made the choice that majority of people would. How often do we lie to protect the feelings of others? I love his character because he is so morally gray and so realistic.

[@GeorgiaDow]

thank you for sharing your feelings on it. He did make the human choice

[@ashebennett7726]

She's not old enough to consent to that. There's a difference between taking away someone's freewill and saving them. Just because Joel saved her, doesn't mean he took away her freewill.

[@H240909]

@@ashebennett7726 How is she too young to make her own choices? By who’s standards?

[@Cosmicgiant5070]

@@H240909 she was like 13 at the time and giving the choice to die or to live at that age is pretty fucked up. it also wouldn't work for a lot of reasons

[@H240909]

@@Cosmicgiant5070 So? What’s fair about the end of the world? And what “wouldn’t work”? The cure? You don’t know that.

[@tanyanikolaevagizdova6571]

One thing I think Joel realized on this journey, and probably actually before that, was that people will cling onto any justification for the immoral things they do to survive. He's fought and killed such people before this point and I think one part of why he decided to make that choice was that he realized the fireflies were really no different.

[@_spt-warwolf_4575]

Indeed, throughout the whole game, the Fireflies are really built up as being this beacon of hope for everyone. The people who will save humanity once and for all. Then when we actually meet them, we see they aren't that at all, in fact they're more like the Hunters and FEDRA. They're just people who feel justified in doing terrible things.....and what for? Survival, just survival. Not hope, not love, not humanity, just the ability to live to the next day. That's another reason Joel's decision isn't necessarily wrong, the Fireflies are just like everyone else. So like everyone else who got in Joel's way, they died savagely for nothing.

[@JohnH0130]

But this begs the question, which of course is, lets ASSUME that Ellie's sacrifice had a real chance to actually facilitate a way to combat the fungus and make people immune. Never mind what you think of their methods. Maybe they really are not that different from the demonstrably evil people, willing to commit atrocities to achieve their goals. Bully an adolescent into sacrificing her life to achieve a cure. That's not the point. Joel's motives have nothing to do with his opinion of their methods, and everything to do with his own selfish goals.

[@piyo744]

​@@JohnH0130 Here's the thing. The Fireflies found other immune people and it didn't work. Even if they made a "vaccine" --- which is only theoretical with today's technology for fungi --- vaccines aren't cures (they're preventatives) and they'd have no way to distribute it. The Fireflies were grasping at straws and even if, even *if* Ellie being cut open may have done something there's no way they'd be able to distribute their cure to more than maybe a few dozen people. Joel did absolutely nothing wrong up until he started lying to Ellie. He made the correct decision to prevent an increasingly radical and self-destroying group from murdering his daughter.

[@8read_]

@@JohnH0130 joel doesn't owe humanity anything, on the contrary they took everything from him. Even if there's a 100% chance of making a cure, why do everybody expects him to sacrifice everything for humanity's sake?

[@Piotr_J93]

"Is there anything so undoing as a daughter?" I think we can find a little paralel with Silco here, they both could have make life of people better but losing daughter (even not their biological daughter but the one person that they loved so much) was just too high price for them. As for question if Joel made right choice I really can't tell because I and actually none of us were in such situation I can only speak for myself and I would do exactly the same thing save my daughter but I don't know if I would be albe to straight up lie to her.

[@GeorgiaDow]

OH yes so true =)) Love that quote so much. It always moves me.

[@kenryu4157]

NO. THAT IS NOT THE ANSWER YOU HAVE TO GIVE ELLEI. ABBY'S UNDOCUMENTED FATHER HAD TO WAKE ELLIE UP AND ASK HER IF SHE WAS REALLY WILLING TO MAKE THAT SACRIFICE. BUT NEIL CRUNCHMAN'S SCRIPT IS GARBAGE

[@heraclestory]

@@kenryu4157 bruh, it’s been over 25 years of apocalypse at that point, constant pain and loss. He thought he could make a cure, at that point even the most ethical doctor would more than likely not have waited for her to wake up and take the chance she might back out…

[@kenryu4157]

@@heraclestory Of course you already said it. THE DOCTOR HAS ELLIE'S LIFE IN HIS HANDS. SON OF A BITCH WAKE ELLIE UP AND ASK HER IF SHE'S READY TO MAKE THAT SACRIFICE FOR HUMANITY. If the cure doesn't come out later, we burn it and that's it.

[@romantheflash]

It's very interesting to me that the game centers around "sacrificing the many to save the few" and what happens when you don't make that choice. But Ellie doesn't get a choice here, there's no informed consent (regardless whether or not she would probably choose it). Which raises another interesting conflict as to whether Joel did the right thing or not. I also love how the second game centers around the consequences of this decision and the cycles of revenge. Love that you're doing these, so much to unpack in these stories.

[@GeorgiaDow]

Yes it is really complex and so well written

[@DanFarrell98]

He took basically everything from Ellie, Abby and so many other with this act but still, if he could have a second chance in that moment he would do it all over again. He knows the consequences of his actions but due to his feelings for Ellie and the time they spent together, despite the tension and anger towards the end, it was 100% worth it for him. Now *that* is a phenomenal character

[@SidPhoenix2211]

Not just the time he spent with Ellie... But also the fact that he was able to give Ellie a chance at a relatively normal, happy life in Jackson

[@BlueSkullX]

He didn't take anything away from Ellie. He saved her life. She didn't have anything but him. He gave her more by taking her to Jackson with his brother Tommy. She gained friends and even a new relationship and a home surrounded by dozens of people. Way more than what she ever had

[@DanFarrell98]

@@BlueSkullX All that is 100% true, but he still took away the meaning for her life and could to some degree give meaning to the deaths of all her friends (i.e. the "it can't be for nothing" line). That's the core of the conflict that Ellie and the players feels at the end of Part I and throughout Part II

[@BlueSkullX]

@@DanFarrell98 The meaning for her life was not to be a sacrificial lamb for the world because that was not even her choice. Marlene made the decision for her. Joel saving Ellie gave her the chance to live her own life. Her death wouldn't have given Riley's death any meaning because she didn't die so that she could live. It's selfish to believe that someone is born into the world simply to die for other people Instead of living their own life and finding their own meaning. I think after everything Ellie has been through she deserved to be happy rather than dead. And she found happiness in Jackson despite being mad at Joel since she had a home, friends and Dina thanks to Joel saving her life.

[@DanFarrell98]

@@BlueSkullX who better to say what the meaning of your life is than yourself. Ellie almost definitely would have said yes to the surgery that would kill her, but Joel stole the choice from her just like Jerry and the Fireflies. Yes she had a relatively good life in Jackson, but what did she have to fight for? Like one of Joel’s final lines in Part I. She struggles with surviving the whole rest of her life due to her guilt of all those who died for her

[@carrot-love-to-watch-youtube]

So happy we're getting more Last of Us content from you ^^ It's really interesting to listen and learn from your videos :)

[@GeorgiaDow]

More to come! hope you like them

[@michacieslak2346]

I think most of us would do the same thing Joel did. Of course, when we say what we'd do hypothetically... hypothetically we're all heroes, we'd die for others or would sacrifice our beloved, blah blah blah. But in reality, if we're really honest? Joel's decision would be decision of most people.

[@Saje3D]

A child shouldn’t be asked to make such a choice and any adult who truly cared would never allow it to happen. To me, his was the only option. Even with all it wrought in the end. The fact the everyone else was so casual about it killing her is creepy to start. Not sure I wouldn’t have torn that tree up by its roots myself. A cure? I don’t even know if they’re right about it. What if they killed her and didn’t even work?

[@foodwallet1223]

@@Saje3D I agree. I think it was another parallel to Sarah's death at the start of the game. The soldier is ordered to murder an innocent girl (and Joel) and he reluctantly did it as he thought it was more important to safeguard the world from the spread of the virus. The choice the soldier made is the same one the Fireflies made. The only difference is that killing Ellie would have had yielded a much greater benefit to humanity than killing Sarah did. It still doesn't make it right or justifiable.

[@H240909]

Nope

[@Manuelomar2001]

Sure, because he was emotionally compromised and too close to the problem. This is exactly why real-life leaders need to be detached, cool, no close to whatever they're making decisions about. Being emotionally close to something will compromise everyone and cause them to make the wrong, selfish choice, instead of the right one.

[@sunflowerguy3264]

@@Manuelomar2001 Meh, I don't think you can compare that situation to general politics and leadership, a leader who is too detached from the problems of his people have great chances to take cold calculated decisions that won't necessarily be for the good of the masses, but will benefit him or the caste who has the most power to keep the status quo... That's my opinion, you can't lead without empathy and without caring about the people you lead

[@BadassRaiden]

One of my favorite things about TLOU series, is all the little intricacies woven into the dialogue that require a little deeper thinking to understand how they influence things that happen later. So I might be one of the minority, but I don't believe Joel is a "morally grey" character as people like to say he is. So there is something Joel says in close to the middle of the game, that is an optional dialogue. When approaching a body lumped out of a taxi, Joel and Ellie talk about the beginning of the outbreak, where governments gunned down innocence as not to risk any infection getting through the gate because, in Joel's words - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." To which Ellie replies, "that's fucked," and Joel says, "Yeah.." Joel understood morally, that it is unacceptable to force sacrifice upon an individual. The needs of the many do outweigh the needs of the few, unless the only way to fulfill the needs or the many is to sacrifice the few. Sacrifice can never be forced, it should always be voluntary. Because the fireflies would not wake Ellie up, regardless of whether or not she would willing sacrifice herself after knowing it would cost her life, they tried to force sacrifice on her. In that moment, Joel understood that a world that would force sacrifice onto a little girl, who would be more than willing to make that sacrifice if she was given the choice - that world does not deserve her sacrifice. Now there is a piece of dialogue from the second game, that reinforces a notion mentioned from the first game. Joel and Ellie come upon a grave sight, one that is small like a child, and Ellie wants to talk about Henry and Sam. Joel says, "things happen and we move on," and most of us take it as being heartless and unkind, but there is a deeper point to what he says. What he means by "things happen" is events in which the outcome cannot be changed. This is why he did something about Ellie. She could be saved, she wasn't dead yet, the outcome could be changed. If she was already dead, he wouldn't have killed anyone and this is where a moment from Part II comes in. After Joel is killed, Ellie and Tommy speak for a moment in her house. Ellie gets upset that Tommy won't give in to her vengeance and says, "If it were you or me Joel would be halfway to Seattle already," to which Tommy sincerely laments, "No he wouldn't." Joel didn't believe in revenge. If the outcome can't be changed, if someone is already dead, there's no point in taking action because it won't change anything. Everything that comes after he saves her, including his lying for so long, was so that Ellie could stop focusing on her immunity and seeing her life through only it, and start being able to find meaning in her life outside her immunity. He loved her unconditionally yes, but it's not just because he didn't want to give her up that made him do what he did and lie about it. He knew she deserved to be alive, he know she deserved to have a life she chooses. She viewed her immunity as a sign, something that was bestowed upon her for a reason and thus she couldn't choose not to fulfill that means (or at least she felt she couldn't not choose to). He says in the very beginning of the second game, "She needed her immunity to mean something... I told her - I told her her immunity meant nothing." He wanted her to see she could have a life that didn't revolve around her immunity, a life where that wasn't the most important thing about her. He lied for so long because every time she asked, he knew that she hadn't realized it yet, that she was still too focused on seeing her life through being immune. He kept wanting to give her more time to figure it out and the only way to do that would be to keep lying, because he knew the truth would send her away forever. It is only until she decides upon herself that the truth will no longer send her away no matter what it is, but what will send her away is if he lies one more time. He could only tell her the truth after she made the choice to not be totally alienated by it. So he did, and it almost totally alienated her, but didn't completely. She stayed around where he could see her, keep an eye on her, know she is safe. And because of that, Joel says he would do it all over again, even though she completely cut him out of her life, treated him like a leper, humiliates him. He did all the things he did, not just for selfish reasons, but more so because he knew she deserved more than to be a sacrificial lamb for a world that didn't deserve her sacrifice.

[@T3AMKILL]

Wonderful comment, and I completely agree. You took it how I strongly feel it was meant to be taken, and it’s a shame there aren’t takes like this more often. Just to piggyback on this, I feel like Ellie in Part 2 is the most misunderstood character of all.

[@zimzalabams2793]

I asked my father if he would do the same thing as joel did with ellie and he agreed, I think it’s what every parent would do tbh.

[@GeorgiaDow]

yes it is a very honest reply

[@amarishorukonbu9364]

Someone wrote an interesting alias on why Joel did what he did and to sum it up they basically said " The world took everything from Joel without care or mercy for his humanity, so why would Joel give back to a world that didn't care about him or his daughter? If the world was going to take everything from him then he would take everything from the world." Honestly I would do the exact same thing to save the person I love. It's easy to think of millions of people as numbers or faceless individuals, because we aren't attached to those millions; we love this one person and they love us, in the grand scheme of things that one person doesn't matter to those millions, but they are not the people making that choice. So it comes down to sacrifice the person you love in HOPE (cause there was no guarantee that it would work) that the cure will save humanity but now your alone and have to suffer the trauma of losing a daughter ALL OVER again or let someone else have to make that decision and the world defend itself.

[@peterandersson8798]

One thing to keep in mind is that there is no guarantee that they would have been able to make a cure, but it was certain Ellie would die.

[@Paulo_fma]

Also, although she would probably agree to die for the cause, the fireflies would kill Ellie before explaining anything to her.

[@SeyhawksNow]

YES! She's analyzing Joel Miller!!! Thanks Georgia!!!

[@WordsDarkerThanTheirWings]

I can not wait for you to do Part 2. Both of the games have wrecked me and have put things in perspective as to why people do the things they do. Thank you for breaking it down even further ❤️

[@mfs353]

the emotional impact of this game, the depth, the complexity, and how true to life it is, blew my socks off. such a masterpiece of a story. incredible, and if I was in Joel's shoes, I 100% would've done the same thing, no doubt in my mind, you want me to sacrifice the only thing that is important to me in this world for "humanity"? NO, and I feel like I'm not in the minority in this dilemma because I believe things change when someone we care about is involved in such a profound choice.

[@ktwolfsbane]

Honestly robbing her of her choice is wrong in my book but I love the story of this

[@GeorgiaDow]

yes it was such a gripping story. More of a movie than a game.

[@qwill2019]

My roommate asked me what I thought of the end and if he was right or wrong, and my response was also Ellie never got to choose. Joel and the Fireflies fought over her, but she never got to speak about it. Both were afraid of her waking up and not choosing their side, so both were trying to act before she could wake. I do believe Joel did the overall wrong thing, but I also do not blame him for not being able to go through this again. He simply couldn’t do it.

[@chand911]

That's the beauty of it, and not even the denial of her choice, but sacrificing mankind because he loved her. That's what makes Part 2 so good. Joel was absolutely right for what he did, and absolutely deserved to die for it.

[@ashebennett7726]

Honestly, she's not even old enough to consent to such a decision. It doesn't matter what she wants, as for what she needs. She deserves to live out her days and to grow.

[@qwill2019]

@@ashebennett7726 I would argue she is old enough in part two, and still her option to choose is gone because of Joel’s actions. So even if we go by the “she isn’t a legal adult” standard of today, it doesn’t change her voice was still stripped of her. I do also think Ellie understood the weight of her immunity. She lived in a harsh world where those close to her died and saw what the infection did to people as they journeyed for a full year. She knew she could save the world, she just never knew it would cost her life until in the second game. Which at that age she still wanted to give her life for the vaccine.

[@TrendK1ller]

For me it was incredibly easy to relate to Joel and his decisions. After every single thing he did I thought to myself; "that's exactly what I would do". Even when Joel encounters Marlene close to the end I already thought to myself; "we better just kill her, she's never going to give up and will come after Ellie no matter what" and then of course he did. Truly one of, if not the best video game stories ever told

[@shaskusmas]

Here's the thing, if the Fireflies did things the right way things might have gone very differently. That is, allow Ellie to make the choice and let her and Joel have that conversation, they might have saved the world. But they chose to murder his daughter, so yeah, I'm on board with what Joel did. If you sacrifice what makes humanity worth saving you defeat the purpose of saving humanity. Aside from that, there's no guarantee the vaccine would have worked and even if it did, how effective would it be? There's a reason mice don't get rabies; they don't survive the attack.

[@chwdavis]

Yes! I have always been intensely bothered by the Fireflies bloodthirsty and shortsighted attitude. "We've been slaving for a cure for years, we've just been hand-delivered the golden goose, and of course the only option is to kill her RIGHT NOW." Abby's dad isn't a hero - he's a monster in his own right. Given that Marlene raised the girl, her failure to advocate for a more moderate approach is even more unforgivable. Frankly, this makes Joel's rampage completely justifiable.

[@crazychase98]

@@chwdavis the fireflies are absolute terrorist who committed many things worse then joel could ever do and he did some very bad things. Killing the fireflys was actual a good thing. Also its believed they where gonna kill joel anyways because he was a "risk" and a "lose end".

[@Gabiparta]

Chwdavis omg yes I thought I was the only one that saw it that way, thank you

[@joshuagraham2843]

@@crazychase98 actually yeah you’re right, no one’s perfect deep down there all just monsters the fireflies the wlf the scars the rattlers there all in a same page except jacksons and boris hillcrest were the only decent communities the cure doesnt work because it’s 30 years of late the world collapsed the whole cure is too late look at spiderman he saved new york from otto’s virus for only few weeks while fireflies only wanted the cure for “power” and “new world order” to bring america back to its roots that they already destroyed america from the first place joel did the right thing or not it will be the same result

[@REChronic54]

That’s why Marlene saying that it’s what Ellie would’ve wanted felt off to me. If she was so sure, then giving Ellie a choice would’ve been no problem. The Fireflies kept her sedated exactly because they weren’t sure which way Ellie was gonna go. In their mind, why explain it all to Ellie and have a chance outcome of her saying no and have to forcefully subdue her, if they can just skip the trouble and operate on her right there. None of the sides here were innocent.

[@robert_bbiii]

Easy to say it is only sacrificing one life to save more when you're not the one making the sacrifice. Easy too to say you'd make your own sacrifice but when it is someone you love it is a different matter. I like to say people who say things like sacrifices must be made are rarely the ones making them.

[@GhostCell47]

Agreed.

[@joycedates2059]

Agreed, and if they are, chances are those being sacrificed aren’t close to them.

[@NerdettesNewsStand]

I love this, great job

[@GeorgiaDow]

thanks so much

[@alexboggs6416]

Whilst I can't argue with your assessment of the characters, it is in my opinion the Joel did the right thing. The Fireflies we're on their last legs, to the point where Joel single handed took them out, so even if they did produce a cure, which is a huge maybe and not a confirmed it will be, they wouldn't be able to protect the new cure they've made from anyone who could steal it, or if they were set upon by infected themselves. There's far too many unknowns and not enough guarantees that the sacrifice of a child is not even remotely close to being justified. Even if she had personally been informed and has consented, which by the way she wasn't and didn't. At least until they retcon that in the next game.

[@GeorgiaDow]

yes that is a good point

[@Soapy-chan_old]

Part 2 wants to retcon some things or make the Fireflies look like angels and in doing so they make the whole situation worse. In addition the characters are so much worse and the way they treated Joel and Ellie is insultingly bad.

[@alexboggs6416]

@@Soapy-chan_old well said

[@sgtmian]

@@Soapy-chan_old no one in that game is portrayed as angels, trust that. every single character just does what they think is right based on their experiences and traumas. joel is no angel. in a lot of ways he deserved what he got. the fireflies aren't either, they'd sacrifice a child for a cure. no one is retconing anything, just adding more context to other characters point of view.

[@Soapy-chan_old]

@@sgtmian Except that they pretend the fireflies did nothing wrong and if joel hadnt saved Ellie the world would be saved now.

[@valerieguseva]

In conjunction with the Part II, the question of the choice that Joel made becomes even deeper, as we see that the lie did not just pass for the grown-up Ellie without a trace. I remember myself thinking about the choice a lot, but then I realised - making the vaccine couldn’t save the world. We, moreover, don’t know actually how many tests or immune persons was there before Ellie, we don’t have any guarantees either, we only know that the girl will die, and for what? Throughout the game, meeting various groups and individuals, it becomes clear that not the infection making world being hell, but the people themselves, and there is no vaccine from that. It was such a great surprise to see that you started analyzing The last of us! As a psychologist, I am very interested to hear your opinion, and especially about tlou 2. Looking forward to new videos, colleague!

[@lindaschreifels9889]

On a medical stand point, also wouldn’t work because they’re trying to make a vaccine. Cordyceps is a fungal infection and those infections that humans do get are treated with creams. While research is being performed to this day, fungal vaccines were not available in 2013, continue to be unavailable now, and there’s no way they’d be able to develop one in such extreme circumstances.

[@Ryley280]

Oh good grief again with the hypotheticals. IT DOESN'T MATTER. Whether or not the vaccine would have worked has NOTHING to do with anything. In the game Ellies immunity had the potential to make the vaccine, whether or not that would happen in real life is irrelevant to this morally compromised scenario.

[@batalorian7997]

Oh wow! The Last of Us react series is finally here. I dont think my heart can handle this much excitement!

[@GeorgiaDow]

teheheheh

[@LAnimeMaster]

I was just thinking that I'd like to see you do more breakdowns of video game characters. haha Glad to see you tackle Joel. I hope you'll do Ellie as well. One video game franchise I'd love to see you breakdown is Life Is Strange. I think there's a lot of unpacking you can do there. Especially with True Colors where emotions play a pivotal role as the main character is an empath to a supernatural degree.

[@dourden77]

Joel decided to protect Ellie not only from the Fireflies, but from herself. At least, this is his point of view.

[@MinersLoveGames]

We all like to think we'd do the "right thing" in these circumstances. That if it came down to it we'd take the option to save the world and humanity as a whole. But we wouldn't. Especially if we had gone through everything Joel had.

[@H240909]

No, there’s plenty of people who would do the exact opposite of what Joel did. Just like there’s plenty of people who would do the exact same as he did. You can’t generalize this stuff.

[@Manuelomar2001]

You're not saying anything revelatory or unknown. Joel's situation is exactly why real-life leaders absolutely need to be detached, objective, and not emotionally compromised or close to a problem that they have to make a decision on.

[@dinbambi4700]

I don’t have kids, and I would never have given up a kids life to make a vaccine . Who can say that the vaccine would have saved humanity ? Often it’s needed more than one, and without more immune ppl, how could they advance it 🤔 I don’t think that the world would have ever become the same again

[@manart6506]

That’s why maybe we should be more mindful of what we do. Is it the right thing to do? or what we want regardless of the outcome to others (or even regardless of our future selves).

[@Ferrilsblood]

**Spoilers** In the game there is a obscure message (that may or may not have been patched out of the game) somewhere in the last section, which states that there were indeed other people who were immune, but the fireflies got them killed in their experiments. It would be interesting to consider how that might affect his character if it were true. Also... a treat for you. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGm7f2qbpL-lZrs The Last of us Turns into a musical XD. Starts at 2:45

[@GeorgiaDow]

I really enjoyed that and Omg i laughed so hard when they started.

[@sgtmian]

no, they weren't immune, but they had tested on people who were infected. if there were other people who were immune ellie wouldn't have been special.

[@Kristers_K]

Although i'm no parent, i can still sympathize with Joel and his decision. Ellie became like a daughter to him through out the journey, he himself became a changed man, she became the light in his otherwise dark life. While what Joel did was selfish, so were the decisions and actions of the people he killed to save Ellie, it goes both ways. Bit off topic, but the biggest issue i find with the whole cure idea, is why is one even needed? It's not a pandemic, a virus killing people, it's only those who go out of their way and get bitten, which by itself makes no sense when you can just wall off a city and live happily away from the ouside world. Imagine zombie apocalypse scenarios - you don't go out risking to get killed, you isolate yourself in a safe place with a sustainable community. The fact people leave safety to kill the infected in it's selfish is beyond stupid and completely unnecessary.

[@joycedates2059]

I agree with most of that.

[@zdante1]

I would love to see your reaction to the way she felt about Joel in the 2nd game and how their relationship panned out

[@NiceLittleWolfie]

Just chiming in that the audio balance is great here. :D

[@scottcunningham5744]

Great video ☺️ I can't unhear the William Shatner in you though lol interesting style :)

[@GeorgiaDow]

rofl yeah Ill work on that =P. HAHA

[@SeaWave2022]

Georgia, what about a video about Ellie suspecting about Joel and finally finding out the truth? That would be pretty interesting, I almost cried the moment she said "we are done!"

[@phkun4435]

I think what Joel did was irredeemable, but I would make the same mistake. I would die feeling bad, but not regretting what I did. As he did, actually, he always knew what he did was wrong, and he knew it until the last drop of the golf club. He accepted it. It's shivering.

[@marydacumos7421]

Love this game, probably one of the very few games that I've played multiple times. It's so good, like playing a movie. Great analysis. Can't wait for you to tackle TLOU 2!

[@taeminislove]

0:53 I beg to differ. If Ellie was set on creating a cure for humanity in exchange for her own life, she wouldn't have ran away when Joel was going to hand her off to Tommy. That was the original plan that Tess asked Joel to do anyway. Ellie knows that. Ellie also knows that Tommy is an ex-firefly. So if she really wanted the cure to be made and was all for the fireflies, it shouldn't have mattered who took her to them. In fact, Tommy would've been the better choice since he's more well-acquainted with the Fireflies. That alone shows that Ellie's main concern are her personal relationships and bonds with people.

[@thecleaf491]

I’ve rarely seen this take on Ellie’s inner motivation, and I believe it’s a solid reason, even if in the second opus, it’s not explicitly stated.

[@taeminislove]

@@thecleaf491 It's a very understandable motivation to me knowing that Ellie's been an orphan ever since. She's also an outcast in school which is why she valued Riley so much. If TLOU1 Ellie knew just how disrespected Joel was by the fireflies, I honestly doubt she would've cared for whatever the fireflies planned.

[@Rainjojo]

I remember playing this game when I was 11, it never occurred to me back then because I thought Joel was just a “good guy” since he was the protagonist but only years later I realize how morally grey he is. It wasn’t his decision to decide for Ellie, but he did it anyways to assure she didn’t die while unconscious on top. He wanted her to see more in the world rather than seeing herself as an experiment. He and Ellie will forever remain as my top characters, they’re just so human and complex that it’s hard to hate them despite their wrongs

[@jeffhale1189]

I appreciate your thoughts. Blessings on your day.

[@ReimaginedSkies]

Oof I have heard of this game but I had never seen the game play or realize how deep the story was. So excited to see you breakdown more scenes from the game.

[@GeorgiaDow]

it is a deep and emotional game

[@MR.__G]

Amazing video !! Any chance you’ve made this same video concept for last of us 2 ?

[@jojojaykay]

Just finished this game. nice to see there's still some current dialogue going on about this game without part 2 in consideration.

[@YourVideoEssaysSuck]

So is it bad that he lied? That is the moral dilemma of the whole series. We all lie to protect the people we love, that’s how life works.

[@thomasrdiehl]

You sure it is not about egotism ending he world?

[@manart6506]

I’m actually of the opinion we shouldn’t judge as hard our loved ones when they have lied to protect us… but this time it isn’t the case IMO, the lie is for Joel, not for Ellie.

[@BlueSkullX]

​@@thomasrdiehl Except the world didn't end just because Joel saved Ellie. A vaccine couldn't save that world and how would they even make one from fungus and distribute it out all across the world?

[@thomasrdiehl]

@@BlueSkullX A vaccine would have been a necessary step to saving it, though. Te logistics of it are not part of or relevant to the story, the important part is that within the story, that was the only known way to end the fungal spread and restore human cvilisation.

[@BlueSkullX]

@@thomasrdiehl No, that's just bad writing. The last of us franchise is supposed to be realistic. Which is why the infected are not zombies but just sick people who went feral due to their brains being rotted with that fungus. It would take some kind of magic or something supernatural to somehow defy science and make a vaccine out of fungus because that's scientifically impossible. Ask any doctor. That scenario was simply made so Joel could save Ellie. Because there was no way a cure could be made in the first place and she would've died for nothing. Then they would have to somehow find a way to distribute a cure all across the world so all of humanity could get it. Which would also be impossible since the Fireflies were already stretched thin and they lacked the people and resources to do it. It was poor writing but "fans" who didn't think about the logistics of it accepted the idea that Joel just ruined humanity's chances for a cure because he's selfish so he deserved to get killed in the sequel for it. Even worse, that the sequel tries to retcon it and make it seem like the Fireflies and WLF were good people and not organized bandits trying to take over Seattle and being seen as terrorists for years after going to war with the military. Ambushing and killing people on the road for their supplies like common Hunters we ran into in the first game. 🤷

[@peanutmuttplays104]

You’re so great for this.

[@Sappho_One]

Yet again great analysis. This is one of my favourite games ever. I’m so looking forward to your review of the HBO series!

[@GeorgiaDow]

i hope they do a good job with it

[@pygmytyrantking3153]

One of my favorite questions to ask when this game first came out for my friends that played the game was "would you do with Joel did?" Most said yes they would but for a lot of different reasons. I was also in the same camp but for me it was because there was no guarantee that it would work

[@vagabundorkchaosmagick-use2898]

That moment when Sarah dies and Joel talks to her, asking not to leave him, always makes me cry. And 6:25 was no exception. I say, without any shade of doubt, that Joel did the right thing. He's the adult, Ellie's a minor. He's responsible for her, we adults don't let kids make those kinds of decisions, we make them on their behalf. Ellie's been manipulated by Marlene and even her mom, they will sacrifice her willingly. Joel does what a loving parent would, protect their kids at all cost. I can't see the sacrificing of a human being, a child, as an heroic act at all. Superman would never kill a person to save the world, he would save that person first and then try to save everyone else. Many will die, he will lament that, but he won't regret saving one, immediate, innocent life.

[@madnessarcade7447]

they aren’t suggested a lot because they are underrated and deserve more appreciation Georgia Also you would love ultra violet and the black scorpion

[@JasperAyeee]

i'm here for all of the TLOU analysis. thanks, Georgia~

[@GeorgiaDow]

more to come

[@LordJaric]

"What would you do?" that is the difficultly of that question in these situations. For those who have never been in such situations they can talk about what they would do but when you get down to it you really don't know.

[@visualartsbyjr2464]

The game depicted surviving humanity to be fairly despicable and, as someone that have survived by his own daughter, I would have made the same choice as Joel.

[@GeorgiaDow]

well said and i think it was really accurate in that aspect

[@nickblood7080]

Also something broken about this. There used to be a knot er recorder to find where the doctor talked about how there had been several other kids that been immune and the procedure had not found the cure.

[@GRIZZLY-nw9gh]

(9:09) « [...] clicking on the playlist above for more videos on The Last Of Us. » Is it me or do I smell an Ellie analysis episode coming up around the horizon? ;)

[@GeorgiaDow]

You know me well Grizzly it will be happening =)

[@DJAlphaOmega]

My favorite videos on the Last of Us besides the analytical observations of the characters morals & ethics, are the medical science videos proving that the Fireflies would've never made a cure they way they were trying to. Mainly do to how fungus works & the procedure they were trying to do, a lot can also be found within their own research files on all the failures.

[@vonpotatostein]

Love your videos so much! They offer a new perspective on games, series etc! It would be cool to see your take on the game Control! You actually look like the protagonist Jesse Faden!

[@GeorgiaDow]

thank you and I will look into it =)

[@RusstixVA]

Funny thing is they said there was no guarantee that extracting would actually kill her im pretty sure maybe im wrong but i found a recording ingame with the doctor saying she doesnt have to die to extract it but Marlene wanted to rush the procedure

[@cleo_patra3463]

I would proudly make Joel's decision. My loved ones lives, to me, are too important for a bunch of ppl idk.

[@user-jt1js5mr3f]

But what if the loved one wanted to give their life to save others?

[@danishpwnztry9412]

@@user-jt1js5mr3f That would make a difference for sure. But as for the game I'm pretty sure it was never made clear to Ellie that she would have to die for it. She was just brought in unconscious and was going to be cut open then and there. In that case it's not Ellie making the choice, that's the choice being made for her. With that being said, I would also stand by Joel in his decision to save her.

[@user-jt1js5mr3f]

@@danishpwnztry9412 I agree, it’s not very clear and arguments could be made either way. One moment that makes me think she’s prepared to is right after the giraffe, joel says, “we don’t have to do this, you know.” And she says, “after all Weber been through? After what I’ve done? It can’t be for nothing.” I agree she may not know death is required (but she might have an inkling), however that statement makes me think she’d definitely be willing, because she needs all that has happened to be worth it, otherwise what did they go through it all for? And I’d say her response and actions in Part 2 support that she would have been willing.

[@SilverForMonsters]

Joel did the right thing - (in saving Ellie because regardless of her feelings or the world's need for a cure she is still a child and it is completely unethical and immoral for the fireflies to take her life to make a vaccine; even if she was conscious and consented she is not mature enough to make such a decision) - because of his selfless love for her. Conversely, the leadership of the Fireflies wanted to do the wrong thing for the collective hope of mankind.

[@Ryley280]

Lol did you just call his love for her selfless? It was nothing but selfish. He didn't do it for anyone but himself. And the fireflies wanted to do the wrong thing for the hope of mankind? Did you really read this before you posted? How in the hell is the sacrifice of a single person to save humanity the 'wrong thing'?? Not to mention it was made very clear thats what Ellie wanted. You people are nuts.

[@MissingLink_]

Great vid and i love your perspective (mostly because it validates my takes lol) but i really think you should also comment on Ellie and Joel's interactions in part 2 or more specifically Ellie's reaction to Joel's decision in the second game. She feels really raw and hurt and i would love to see your take.

[@michaelriley8314]

Loved your take on this. Can you please one day cover the scene in tlou2 when Ellie finds out what Joel did?

[@corvoseesthevoid2373]

You should totally do something with the second game too. Its a lot about obsession, grief, and PTSD. Its super interesting and something that a lot of people seem to ignore a bit.

[@themeanlesbeann]

When I played TLoU the first time I knew at the end of the game it could only end this way. Ellie is Joel's family, his daughter. He's lived in a world for 20 years seeing the very worst of humanity and now has found love again. To Joel humanity isn't worth sacrificing his daughters for. I know I would make the same choice if I were in his shoes. Especially since they didn't even know if the cure would work. Losing Ellie wasn't worth taking that chance.

[@millennialmongoose3392]

Its really hard to fault Joel at all in what he did especially knowing that what they went through to get there, while rough, was possibly a lighter moment in Joel's life. As he was kind of hinting when they were in, I think it was Pittsburgh, and he knew the ambush was coming cuz he used to be on the other side of it. As well as the nightmares that his brother had reliving those moments of their past. He definitely did not feel any reason for compassion or sacrifice after everything that had happened in the twenty years before. Definitely one of the better characters I've played in a game in a long time.

[@Bem-0]

Today in my English class I got a sheet that said who inspired you and I wrote Georgia

[@GeorgiaDow]

OH no way =))) that is so touching. Thank you awwwwww

[@Stranzua]

In my opinion, I find it convenient for the story that they never discussed how creating a cure could cost Ellie her life. They spend more time together than just the gameplay we are shown so I feel there was a real genuine chance for that topic to come up along the way.

[@kagamine14]

Scientifically speaking, I would find it really hard to believe that killing the one I care for will lead to a cure. When it comes to diseases especially, you’d never want to intentionally kill the host with the immunity you’re looking for, because you’d only get one chance to replicate, and if you can’t then you’re done and it was all worth nothing. So with that knowledge and understanding, I would never let the person I deeply cared for sacrifice themself in such a way. There are other methods, these people do not have the knowledge or expertise to understand that and Thus I cant trust them. 😢

[@Steve-yn3cs]

Exactly. There's no way I would have let her die, I would have done what Joel did. Exactly

[@lordeddy05]

Amazing vid, Madam! I'm eager to see you cover more video game characters :)

[@masonjenks7636]

The last of us is such a fantastic game and I love your videos. Suggestion: can you react to more Disney characters like Mulan, Aladdin, Simba, Nick Wilde, Maui or other characters? I was just naming some I know have internal issues.

[@Damien_Paxton]

My question is: how do we know that after operating on Ellie, that a cure would be found? Think about it, yes they’d obviously learn new things about the ‘fungus” but there is no way, not even a slight guarantee that a cure would be found or that progress would even be made. Ellie would be dead and would’ve died for nothing. There is no guarantee of a cure being found.

[@I-AM-MOTIVATED]

And what if... that new fungus that been evolving is that the fireflies (Abby's father) already know how to dealt with that evolving or new fungus. There's a possibility that fungus can be cured because they already "learning new things".

[@Damien_Paxton]

@@I-AM-MOTIVATED that’s my point, it’s always going to be “what if”. There’s no 100% proof that operating on her would or wouldn’t provide a cure, Also personally I didn’t like that the game made Joel kill that surgeon (we didn’t get to choose).

[@chunkystains8950]

Love this game! Loved the sequel! Love your video game reactions! 😊

[@GeorgiaDow]

Thank you so much 😁

[@SebasTian58323]

Joel lost a lost of people, and every time he was trying to do something they wanted or for them. Sarah, he lost some trying to protect her. Tess he lost while trying to smuggle Ellie for Marlene, Sam and his brother, lost while they were trying to get to a safe location together. He's finally gotten to the final location, and he's faced with the knowledge he's going to lose someone else, and this time he decides to do something for himself. I'm probably stretching a little, but it's a fun thought

[@MingDK]

The problem with this choice is that the Fireflies somehow decided to kill the girl instead of keeping her alive at all cost and procuring antibodies and data from her. Killing her wouldn’t help the humanity at all.

[@AesirUnlimited]

Ellie would’ve wanted to sacrifice herself because she felt that it would give her life meaning. But Joel saved her because she had meaning to him.

[@weirdTedE91]

With the backpack, Georgia looks like Heather from Overkill's TWD!

[@GeorgiaDow]

thanks she looks pretty fierce

[@ravengray9517]

how did you know I was replaying this

[@GeorgiaDow]

Hope you enjoyed it Raven =)

[@caleb-hb9bf]

I really hope you can look at the ending scene with Ellie and Joel in Part 2.

[@Havensight]

Love this game, still playing so will watch the video later.

[@buffalo666]

Please continue making more videos for The Last of Us! Part 2 has so much to dissect.

[@GeorgiaDow]

i will =)

[@Soapy-chan_old]

yeah e.g. how ellie didn't kill abbie because of... reasons and that joel behaved like an idiot before getting hammered.

[@parthbhogle]

Man I have started to love your videos ... Maybe can You do a Video on Homelander from The Boys ... In depth one !!!

[@Espinozaize]

In a sense this is the opposite situation that Pike was in. Pike in Critical Role had divine aid from the Ever Light to kill all of those undead (Ashley Johnson plays both Pike & Ellie. Just so I do not sound like a lunatic here) Well in her role as Ellie it is kind of the same situation. She can save the lives of thousands. However she must give her own life to do so... Joel acts kind of like Grog would do. Joel & Grog protects Pike & Ellie before anything else. It is true love. Yet in away that is ignorant & selfish also

[@maxburlake3159]

100% I'd do the same. Just would be destroyed by guilt after, but having to make that decision in a moment I'm picking my loved one over every and anyone. Then lots of therapy after

[@llg193]

For me, The Last of Us is about how people become monsters. Scarcity, fear, trauma and even love can turn us into horrifying versions of ourselves. Joel's choice is understandable but unjustifiable. Not only does Joel doom humanity, but he also deprives Ellie of her autonomy. The choice of whether or not she died to create a vaccine should have been hers.

[@Yak1312]

That’s not how cordyceps works though. It’s held at bay by another fungus. They didn’t even know how it works so would have killed her for nothing.

[@jali7913]

I thought about the question, whether Joel's decision to save Ellie is right, before, and I still agree with him. Although lying to her, is -of course- problematic, because it takes agency from her, the plan of the Fireflies, and ultimately Marlene, is the villain-piece. Why? Because they make the decision, that killing Ellie in inevitable, and that the lives of the many outweigh the life of one. But who gives them the right to decide this? A couple of years ago, the German government made a similar decision: They passed a bill, that would allow the military to shoot down a hijacked plane, if there was the danger of the highjackers crashing it into a building or a populated area 9/11-style. This bill was revoked by the German constitutional court soon after. And their reasoning was quite interesting: The state, as an institution in a position of power, does not have the right to decide the value of a person's life over other lives. By doing so, any authority would degrade the people involved to mere objects of their actions. And this is a clear violation of the first article of the German constitution "Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority." The court argued, that the decision to shoot down an air-plane full of innocent people, disregards their lives and their dignity, and makes them objects of state action. The same is true for the procedure that would possibly create a cure in "The Last Of Us". The Fireflies take on the role of the state authority here, but the situation is the same: they hold the power, and they decide who lives or dies. That, by the standards set by the German constitutional court, makes them the bad guys. But what about Joel? Does he have the right to withhold information from Ellie, so she doesn't go back? Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I think, his actions are justified: After all, how much agency does Ellie have, if she knew the truth? As Georgia said in the video, she's a carer. So she would most likely go back and sacrifice herself. But then, the burden placed on her shoulders is too big to make such a decision (remember, Ellie is still a minor!). She can't even debate this issue with the people who can explain the procedure and it's odds of success, because once the Fireflies get a hold of her, they would continue, with or without her consent. So her "decision" is: Have yourself killed, or the rest of humanity dies, and it's going to be your fault! It's not what I would call a free decision. Especially because Ellie is not an adult, I believe Joel's actions to protect her are justified.

[@kaya8706]

0:05 hard swallowing a.k.a. "Adam's apple jump" , a sign when someone is telling lies

[@MelEnvision]

Please do an analysis on Part II. I'm enjoying your take on the game so far.

[@isaibravo3917]

Joel did the right thing and I'm not speaking from a sentimental site here. Theres an easter egg hidden before going after Ellie with the fireflies that says that there has been some kids inmune that were used to the same procedure that Ellie was gonna be put through without results (probably that's where Joel steal the idea to tell Ellie his half lie at the end) so i probably wouldn't trust the fireflies for this one.

[@Joe-vc2cc]

Please do a video on Ellie’s trauma in the last of is 2.

[@johnharvey1602]

What people keep overlooking is that the fireflies were at fault for how the game ended. If they didn't attack him, threatening to kill him, and told him that Ellie was going to die they would have their cure. They poke the bear and the bear attack back.

[@grimm516]

Sadly, I haven't played the game so I missed most of the original spark. As for the decision it's hard, if I was the immune one I would probably sacrifices myself needs of the many and all that But if I was in Joel's shoes, I don't know to be totally honest. Really awesome video get the mind thinking can't wait for the next one

[@GeorgiaDow]

yes it is a difficult one for sure =) thanks grimm

[@crazychase98]

Its morally gray the fireflies are actual terrorist even in the game it lest you know they are not good. And it is believed they where gonna kill joel since he new to much. They get super nasty after they get a hold of eli. And joel got pissed

[@cryxtheace3129]

I would have tried negotiating for Ellie to make that decision when she’s grownup-bare minimum. Marleen may have granted that much, or at least pushed for it, even being a hard sell with all the uncertainty in this world. Tbf, the way the Fireflies handled this situation was as unethical as the way Joel did. Thats what makes this game so interesting though, there is no “right” side. The motivations on either side are completely understandable, even if the actions they take are monstrous. The biggest issue I have with the Fireflies is the lack of consent given. Ellie was just treated like a lamb to slaughter, not only being underage but not even given the chance to decide-Joel either. Granted, the way Joel reacted was unnecessarily brutal-as in character-but still bad. And he knew it too, that’s why he lied. And it did come back to bite him in the end :/ Everyone looses in this debate, but I think thats the point. It’s a very cynical story. And a final note… the worst thing that Joel did was taking that choice away from not just Ellie, but all of humanity.

[@jean1726]

I will love to see your analysis on Rurouni Kenshin's anime. A remake just started last week. It is full of history and character development (assuming this will follow the original 90's anime) . In my humble opinion, it will be a great addition to your repertoire.

[@nc6326]

I think both (the Fireflies and Joel) were wrong to choose for Ellie... Although, I'm not saying that Ellie could really make a well thought out decision, as there were many external factors (people practically implying that if you had a possible cure, this possible cure belonged to humanity) and her own experiences that would make her decide to sacrifice herself. Now, I remember being incredibly upset at some points in the second part of the story (TLOU 2), because it made me realize and think that just because someone is immune (to something that affects the world) doesn't mean that person owes someone anything... That person has that "evolutionary advantage" and it's not like that person asked for it, if others don't have immunity it's probably because they shouldn't survive... I think it's a matter of natural selection. If someone who does not have immunity survives it is because it shows that they are an individual capable of continuing here and adapting to the new conditions, those who do not survive it is because they simply should not do so... Of course, I am seeing it from a scientific point of view and not taking into account the emotional bonds that a fit individual has with an unfit or vice versa but, in short, Ellie owed nothing to anyone... Many may consider Joel's decision not to hand over Ellie to obtain the cure selfish (that it was to a certain point because he did not want to lose her), however, this action would be considered selfish by those who do not have that immunity but, again, if Ellie has it, it is because naturally she should survive... And the others adapt and show that they must also survive (without being immune). PS: I hope this is clear... And sorry if I made any mistakes (English isn't my mother tongue). PS2: I love Georgia's analysis.

[@bayc3715]

Amazing work, think you could do the ending of the last of us 2? I know it is under interpretation why Ellie let Abby live but I would love to see your take on it.

[@desercitus]

I get the feeling this is an unpopular opinion, but I believe the only thing Joel did wrong was lying to Ellie. And Marlene wasn't just a villain, but a villain was certainly one of the things she was. Remember, she didn't wake up Ellie and didn't ask her permission first. This wasn't "sacrificing" someone, it was murder. Call it what it is. So many people say it's one life against the whole of humanity? Well, ethics isn't math, and some actions can never be justified, no matter the cause. And I strongly believe murdering a child is one of them. So no, leaving Ellie there wouldn't have been "the right thing to do". By saving her from that, Joel actually did the right thing (maybe for the wrong reasons, but that's a different matter) - of course only to then do the wrong thing again and lie to her about it.

[@AdorableFloof1999]

So I agree that Joel did the right thing, but to add onto this. Killing Ellie wouldn't have lead to a magical vaccine, vaccines are made from blood. Also even in 2022 we have no fungal vaccines, you just take antifungal medication if you get an infection. Her 'sacrifice' would have been in vain anyway. You have a high chance of killing the cordyceps by crop dusting with gold bond than killing Ellie.

[@user-jt1js5mr3f]

That's why it's so beautifully messy. No one did the right thing. Marlene was willing to kill her. Joel was willing to kill everyone else. Had they waited, Ellie probably would have gone with Marlene, and I get the feeling Joel would have still reacted this way.

[@Ryley280]

Your pitch almost works, until you said Joel did the right thing. Sorry but no. He killed everyone doing what he knew Ellie wanted and then lied to her about all of it. There is nothing 'right' about it at all. The only thing Marlene was guilty of was not telling Ellie she was going to have to die first. But she knew just was well as Joel did Ellie would have agreed to it. You people spinning the narrative to make Joel be the hero are so transparently bias and sound so silly.

[@AdorableFloof1999]

@@Ryley280 How about this, Ellie dying wouldn't have resulted in anything besides a dead child and a completely shattered man. We are in 2022, able to make vaccines in around a year and we still cannot make a vaccine for fungi. On top of this killing the only immune person is literally the exact opposite way to make a vaccine because vaccines are made from blood. The fireflies had no idea what they were doing, if they did they would have known there really is no vaccine they could have made with or without Ellie and would have been looking into anti-fungals instead. Cordyceps is a type of fungus so you have a better chance of killing it by coating the world in gold bond than whatever the fireflies were planning. That's not spinning the story, that's not ignoring the fact what he did was selfish, that is using actual, scientific facts as to why he did the right thing.

[@Ryley280]

@@AdorableFloof1999 again with the hypotheticals....it has NOTHING DO TO WITH ANYTHING. Whether or not in real life it would work doesn't matter. In real life there are no clickers either. Its about the morally gray decisions made by everyone but Ellie, who made it clear she wanted her immunity to matter, and even implied in the very last scene she'd be willing to die for it after losing Riley. This is a shoehorned debate designed to justify Joel's actions, nothing more