The Quarter Scale Is Your Friend # 17

Using your mills quarter scale to reduce waste
Link to a (hopefully) better video on quarter scales
• Wood-Mizer LT40 Quarte...
#TheOldManAndTheSaw

[@offthekurf]

Of all the videos that came up when I searched using a quarter scale, this is the only one that provided simple usable instructions. Thank you !

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

I believe in simple. Thank you for the kind comment.

[@KPVFarmer]

Thanks for the explanation of the scale on the woodmizer! I’m almost ready to make some sawdust and this was exactly what I was looking for. My uncle passed before he had a chance to teach me. Greatly appreciated! Cheers 🍻 🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Thank you. What mill will you be running? If you haven't run a mill yet, you will love it. Happy milling. Dave

[@robertward553]

Just goes to show even the best of us have to pay attention to what we are doing. Good job.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Thank you.

[@howardkettner]

So good Dave. I learn such a ton from you. Your info and delivery is beyond compare. Huge thanks for your thoughtful and eminently practical approach.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

I'm liking you more and more, Howard. Keep the nice comments (even if you feel that you're lying)

[@bobgernaat8960]

Thanks, I am new to sawmilling. This has been very helpful. I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Lightbulb moment. Thanks again.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

It's funny how simple something is... once you know the secret. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@zeke1eod]

Awesome job, K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Silly straight to the point. Nobody is perfect we all mess up daily. Thanks for sharing, God bless

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Thanks for the awesome comment.

[@jerrylittle8922]

Thank you. Well done.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

I worked on that stupid video for 3-4 days. What a PITA it was.

[@grainfedcarvingandsawmill334]

I have a hard time with the scales, thats why I built my own. Thanks, I do understand better now.

[@dtm1303]

Thank you for this video! I learned a lot. I have always ended up with an odd board at the bottom of the deck with my WM HM126.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

I have another quarterscale video being released July 5th. I hope you enjoy it.

[@howardkettner]

Nicely done

[@MONNIEHOLT]

Thank you for the education on the 1/4 scale, 🙋🏻‍♂️

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

I have found that using the 1/4 scale properly my wasted effort and materials are greatly reduced.

[@mgpoteete3390]

Thank you. I have a much better understanding how to use the scale.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Thank you. I will be explaining more in future videos as I run the mill.... if the weather gets better.

[@mikecrockett3669]

That was awesome!

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Thank you.

[@okkie2000]

Cool video, I'm 19 nearly 20 just finished a sawmill training on the same lt40, I'm kinda looking forward into learning more about a sawmill an how to cut, but I dont under board feed I kinda under fbm but I'm still learning at the same time...

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

A board foot is the amount of wood in a board that is 12" wide by 12" long by 1" thick; which equals 144 cubic inches. So a 1" board that is 10" wide and 10 feet (120") long would be 8.33 board feet; 10"x1"x120" = 1200 cubic inches; 1200/144=8.33 board feet. I hope this helps. Dave

[@peterellis4262]

It was three of us ;) Me, myself and I ;)

[@1rustytree]

Just came from your redo video, all good info! What keeps the 1/4 scale rule from sliding, is it just sandwiched in the mount ? I am trying to fabricate a rule on my DIY mill.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

So many things to say.... Watch video #73 where I talk about the error in the WM quarter scale. Wood-Mizer (WM) makes a nice quarter scale for the LT40 (they have many quarter scales for many mills; each one different) but it has a serious error in the design. That's where #73 comes in. The scale in question is held in the "zero" position by a roll pin and can slide in the holder. A clamp holds the scale in the positions you set. Watch #17 again and pause the video at about 45 seconds. Look about 1" below the yellow portion on the left and you will see a simple bent piece of metal; this is the clamp. My opinion is that the inch scale should be adjusted to where a cut made is EXACTLY where the inch scale indicates (scale at 6" gives you a board EXACTLY 6" high). The inch scale should never be moved except to re-calibrate the mill. If you need more info please let me know. Dave

[@1rustytree]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw Thanks for the reply! I will check them both out again!

[@ralphpezda6523]

It surprises me that the increasing weight of the boards against the blade as the cuts move down does not cause burned wood. It took a while for me to learn how fast to pull a radial saw through a cut to avoid it, depending upon wood thickness. Maybe blade lube (water or diesel) solves the problem.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

I believe that because of the support of the uncut wood before the blade, the tooth set and the buildup of sawdust behind the teeth there is little friction during cutting. There may be a small amount of the friction as the blade leaves the wood but I doubt it.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Here is a link to a video from 12/12/20 by Fall Line Ridge where he does a better job answering your question. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHzJfJqrZZWpf6s

[@ralphpezda6523]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw That makes sense but doesn't fit the bill exactly. The radial saw blade has offset soldered on teeth and is not subject to weight on either side of the blade. It cuts straight to the table top and square to the fence so it does not crab it's way through the work piece. It cut through a hard rock maple 24" x 4" bench top like nothing but still produced very light singeing on one side of the cut toward the end. Pull it through a cut at the speed it likes and the problem never appears. I have to think more about this. Thanks for responding.

[@ralphpezda6523]

Old Man, upon reflection I think I figured out. The video link explanation may have something to do with it but probably not much. I strongly suspect the reason Woodmizer type sawmills don't burn the wood, unlike my radial saw does now and then, is the simple matter of the number of teeth x how fast they return to strike the wood = friction = heat . . . . or somesuch. Here's the loose example (do the math yourself): The farthest distance between teeth on my 80 tooth 18 inch radial saw blade is the diameter of the blade (or close to it = 18 inches. At 3600 RPM (????) and no lubrication each tooth strikes the work piece 10 bazillion times per minute. Contrast your sawmill with how many teeth? 300 - 400??? on a 10 to 14 foot long blade??? Add in lubrication, i.e., cooling, and all the extra time your bandsaw blade flies through the ethers, i.e., gets more cooling, before tooth #1 hits the workpiece again = your blade teeth are continuously cooler as each tooth does it's part in making the cut. In other words during the same time and at the same (or similar RPM) your individual bandsaw teeth don't strike the workpiece as often and don't get as hot as the teeth do on my radial saw blade. Problem solved . . . . assuming that a Woodmizer blade does not crank along at 400/80 × 3600 RPM = a lot more RPM compared to my radial saw. I achieved this epiphany when I looked into a Baker sawmill with a 20 foot long blade bearing ~ X thousand teeth. The obvious also struck me: a single sided rail support post Woodmizer sawmill is the rough equivalent to a radial arm bandsaw. I hope this concludes this mystery. (And, yes, I know a 20 foot long 36 inch diameter log should in theory afford more overall friction as compared to making a cross cut on a railroad tie.)

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@ralphpezda6523 You got me thinking, Ralph, and I am planning on doing a video on just this subject.... I hope. Thanks.

[@suemoore1965]

💖💕💞

[@jbjbuild]

Very informative. Thank You! BTW Ordered the LT35HD, won't be ready until January.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Last I heard WM wait was 39 weeks. Keeps getting longer and longer. The DO make a great mill though. In the middle of milling some black cherry so there will be another video out shortly. Thanks for the comment.

[@jbjbuild]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw Yeah, they are out 43 weeks now. I didn't order the optional 2 hydraulic side supports. Do you have those on your mill and do you think it would be worth adding those. Thanks! Looking forward to the cherry milling video.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@jbjbuild I have not regretted adding the additional linkage. It's only $ 175 (if I remember correctly). Don't tell anybody but..... I believe that if you go to your local Wood-Mizer location you MAY be able to wangle the linkage from them for free. Worth a try. 43 weeks.... OUCH!!

[@jbjbuild]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw Thanks, I was thinking the same...for $179, its probably worth it.

[@spicher40]

Up to 60 weeks. Just ordered today 😳

[@jeffreylamontagne1408]

very help full, I'm new at this

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

What kind of mill do you have?

[@jeffreylamontagne1408]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw very old LT40 1993

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@jeffreylamontagne1408 That is old in bandsaw years (like dog years)

[@jeffreylamontagne1408]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw first one I owned, found with only 500 hour in Alabama

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@jeffreylamontagne1408 I've seen videos of mills with THOUSANDS of hours still going strong. Mine has less than 40 but I desperately want to see more hours on it. Maybe I should let it idle when it's stored?

[@ronweber4508]

👍

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Thanks Ron

[@tinkertime7165]

This is a great demo for those of us ‘visual’ learners, thanks! Why do the ‘standard’ scales differ from the ‘hardwood’ scales? It seems the hardwood scales leave more material on, in other words the boards are thicker. Do you know why this is?

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

First let me say that I don't use the hardwood quarter scale (unless I'm forced to) because it wastes too much lumber. The reason for the hardwood quarter scale to be so "thick" is so that there is enough material in each rough sawn board to allow for shrinkage and for drying defects to be removed when the boards are planed. The Standard (softwood) quarter scale is "thinner" because softwoods don't shrink as much as hardwoods while drying. Thanks for watching and commenting on the video. Dave

[@tinkertime7165]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw thanks Dave. I thought perhaps something along those lines. Do you happen to know if those scales are easy to purchase? I have had a good look here in the uk and can’t find them available. I am building a bandsaw mill!!

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@tinkertime7165 I would try Wood-Mizer first as they have a presence in the UK. woodmizer.co.uk/ Or try these sites: www.norwoodsawmills.com/lumber-scale-magnets cookssaw.com/magnetic-lumber-scale/ www.woodmaxx.com/product-p/sm-scr.htm www.hud-son.com/product/quarter-scale-mill-ruler/ Good luck.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@tinkertime7165 Forgot to tell you; you'll have to call Wood-Mizer/ UK to get the information you need. Their website doesn't seem to show access to their quarter scales.

[@tinkertime7165]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw thanks. I’ll give them a call.

[@ryanvanesch9329]

Why does the hardwood scale add an extra 1/8”? Is it to account for shrinkage or something like that?

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Not "something like that; EXACTLY like that! Hardwoods shrink more than softwoods. I prefer to NOT use the Hardwood Scale........it wastes too much lumber. Because I'm cheap!

[@ryanvanesch9329]

Your lumber scale zeros when all the way down, I have a woodmizer also but it came with magnetic scale. If I want to zero the magnetic to the mill deck (for some reason I haven’t figured this out yet but your video may have helped me to sort it out) would I choose the size (lets use 5/4) and line the bottom most 5/4 line on zero? Then go to the top of the log and start cutting down from the closest 5/4 mark to to the top?

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@ryanvanesch9329 The distance between the "Standard" quarter scale marks should be 1/8" MORE than the quarter value (4/4 + 1/8" = 1 1/8", 5/4 + 1/8" = 1 3/8" etc.) and 1/4" MORE than the Hardwood Grade quarter scale marks (4/4 + 1/4" = 1 1/4") The next thing you need to do is to measure from the quarter scale zero to the first marks to determine if the distance is the same as between the rest of the marks. IT SHOULD NOT BE THE SAME!! The distance from zero to the first quarter scale marks should be about 1/8" LESS than the rest. This takes into account the kerf lost from each board. My first quarter scale mark is at the same distance as the rest of the marks and my last board ends up being 1/8" thicker than the rest. Therefore, my quarter scale zero is 1/8" BELOW the inch scale zero. Easy test; align your Standard quarter scale zero with the inch scale zero and see if the 4/4 mark aligns with the 1" mark. If WM corrected their mistake the 4/4 mark should be just a hair above the 1" mark. If not just align the 4/4 mark with the 1" mark to "zero" the quarter scale Good luck Dave Sorry for the long-winded answer.

[@timothymyers6827]

HOW do you actually set the simple set for quarters. It only seems to go by the inch scale

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

The video is made to show how to use the quarter scale and not the Simple-Set. I should have also shown how Simple-Set works; my apologies. There are videos that show how Simple-Set works but I'll try to give you a quick explanation. Simple-Set is used to precisely position the saw blade. To set the distance you want the blade to lower each time there is an "Up" and "Down" button that adds or subtracts 1/16" from the current preset move value. The value is shown in inches and fractions. The Standard Quarter Scale shown adds 1/8" to the desired board thickness to compensate for the saw kerf. So, to set Simple-Set you set the preset to 1 1/8" for 4/4 boards and 1 3/8" for 5/4 boards. I hope this answers your question. If not, I should do a short video on the quarter scale and Simple-Set and how they work together.

[@timothymyers6827]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw Thanks BUT I already know how to use it and have been for some time. You were talking as if the simple set can be used in quarter measures. I misunderstood. It is just easier to use inches for me. since simple set uses inch measures. I guess if someone does not know inch measurements really well it might not be easier.

[@timothymyers6827]

By the way I set 4/4 board at 1" and it cuts precisely at 1". I have cut 160 or so 3/4" X 8" boards to line the inside of our cabin. I set simple set at 3/4" and it cut precisely 3/4" . The only issue my son tells me [he is nailing up the boards] is that is a group that are 8" down to 7 7/8 ". I must have not lowered the toe board after my first cut!!!!! They are having to take a hand planer and plane them down to use. I have a VERY limited amount of white pine logs left to mill.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@timothymyers6827 If I set my SS to 3/4" the blade will move 3/4" each time but the resulting milled board will be just over 5/8" thick. My SS requires you to add 1/8" for the kerf width to obtain the thickness you require. As far as toe boards are concerned, I have forgotten to lower mine at least a million times..... give or take.

[@olddodger7178]

Did you level the pith ?

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

No. It was a small log I had no use for; plus it was only 6' long. I just wanted to demonstrate the quarter scales. Thanks for taking the time to comment.

[@SpecialChannels-dn2sx]

Your last board is thicker by 1/8th of an inch, no? So, you still need to make a last cut on your last cut. Please explain setting the quarter scale to the deck a bit more, please. Thank you.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Below is a link to a video I did much later that the one you are commenting on. It's the first of 3 videos addressing the issue you mentioned. Each video has a link to the next video in the description. Hopefully they will answer your question. Dave kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpizqZedp5akoMU

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

I see you just added another comment. For some reason I cannot fully access it. This sometimes happens with KZbin. Try again and if that doesn't work, send me an email. The address is in the "About" tab. Dave

[@SpecialChannels-dn2sx]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw Thanks. I'll check it out.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@SpecialChannels-dn2sx To answer your pith question: it's better to try to get the pith centered as close as you can on the mill. This will keep the tree fibers parallel to the cut. And, yes, it's almost impossible to have a perfectly straight pith so centering it within a thin (>1") board probably won't happen. Since the pith and surrounding juvenile wood is usually lower quality it's advantageous to capture it in a single board instead of having the inferior wood in multiple boards.

[@johnclark5153]

No. A 4/4 board thickness is 1 1/8 inches thick.

[@rexhavoc2982]

Your last cut did not end up with the pith in the center of the last board @10;32 that was your goal? Very confusing, a do over with one scale size start to finish and have it work rite. The line should be in the center of one board. On your mill dose dropping the scale down to the bottom equal the blade on the bunk? Mine is not that way.

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Rex, you are right! I just watched the video again and was NOT impressed with the quality. I will try to do a better video in the near future; which, believe it or not, is always my goal. Thanks for pointing this out. Dave

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Rex, I just finished the new quarter scale video and it's ready for you to see. You are the only one who can view it at this time. Send me an email and I will send you a link to the video. My email is on my channel home screen under the "About" tab. Dave

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

Rex, I need to make the replacement video public and would like to hear your comments before that happens. I am going to schedule the video to go public on Wednesday. Dave

[@rexhavoc2982]

I was folligng along until you miss spoke and that through me off. Your cut speed is way too slow for that size engine. Tell us how you would set up for 3/4 inch boards and the pith in the center board. Thanks,

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

In answer to your question, here's one way. First I'd remove the 4/4 scale and replace it with my 3/4 scale. I keep it on the post behind the scale support. Second, I'd align the blade with the pith. Third, I'd adjust the 3/4 scale so that the height pointer was half way between two 3/4 marks. Fourth, I would raise the blade to the height I wanted and made sure it was lined up with a 3/4 mark. Then I would cut the boards I needed moving the blade down to each succeeding 3/4 mark as each board was cut. Dave

[@rexhavoc2982]

@@TheOldManAndTheSaw Thanks i will try that, after measuring the center to the bunk at both ends, centering the pith. .

[@TheOldManAndTheSaw]

@@rexhavoc2982 Rex, still waiting for your email. I REALLY want you to see the new quarter scale video before I release it to the public. Dave