The Quit Moment - Why Games Lose Players

[@nadierelevante]

"Non-consensual moment of PvP" That might be the most polite and funny way to call ganking.

[@Dreydan]

I think that's a huge reason why even the most well made Korean mmo's never quite make it to the very top.

[@NeroLordofChaos]

I quit TERA after the server merge. I was on a PVE only server and we merged into a server where once you hit cap, you were free game in nearly every overworld location (PVP65).

[@MrinalKantiM]

Like in Destiny 2 where they give you an exotic PvE weapon which requires mandatory PvP performance, not just participation, to unlock its full potential (as its catalyst).

[@Shinnouryu]

This made me quit WoW. My friend had all his characters on a pvp server, it was frustrating. Another MMO I loved had free pvp. I stop many times and stoppped for good

[@Pepsi_Dog_]

I personally live for pvp, but whenever there is this shit it just makes me absolutely cringe. Especially when it's unbalanced and im rocking a top of the meta build and am just forced to wreck some fresh player cause they are forced into pvp with a pve build, honestly just makes me feel like a total asshole.

[@TheAnimatedJester]

I have 2 Quit moments. 1: If the game makes me feel like it requires me to treat it as a second job to enjoy it. 2: If the game's primary way of adding new content is under the peer pressure of the effects from FOMO (this mostly applies to limited time items in battle passes, and not things like new gear or cosmetics in a raid)

[@hoangminhle1964]

Let me guess, WoW?

[@ExorionHagen]

@@hoangminhle1964 Could also refer to Destiny 2.

[@toby0897]

@@ExorionHagen yeah this sums up destiny 2 to a tee for me

[@Eruthian]

Good reasons. 3: Real life catching up, 4: leaving friends. I played Eve online for 4 years, to this date the mmo I sticked with the longest. Then I had to quit for 1 year due to rl issues. Tryed to have a look back into it, but by then, 90% of my old dudes in the game had moved on and it didn`t feel the same anymore.

[@SushiBurritoPapi]

@@toby0897 to be fair, their battle pass lasts for quite awhile, and you could go back later to acquire some of the stuff you missed… but yeah Felwinters FOMO made me stop playing (I came back way later). I hate when a game doesn’t respect my time.

[@Paddelui]

- When you realize you are only playing to not fall behind. - When your character you have spent a lot of time getting geared up gets nerfed or turns out to be inferior to all the others.

[@PURRfect7]

@@bokrugthewaterserpent3012 I honestly miss my Stam based night blade. Haven't played in years lol

[@PURRfect7]

This is pretty much the night blade and (I think) the paladin in ESO, and the hunter in Destiny. The hunters just... Constantly get nerfed for no reason

[@sephestra.]

This. Exactly this.

[@FlameSoulis]

This is what killed me from ArcheAge. Clerics were nerfed from highest to absolute lowest (you literally couldn't even heal yourself). That and I lost a major item that took me literal a year to get and support refused to restore it. I took the hint.

[@magmaferret636]

@@bokrugthewaterserpent3012 My first ESO toon was a StamBlade. I switched to console for a few years, and returned to PC only to find out my original toon was nerfed to the point it wasn't fun anymore. I feel your pain. I switched that toon to a MagBlade, and the change of playstyle has helped, but I almost deleted a toon created in Pre-Release because of it.

[@serras_]

The quit moment is the moment when the devs release yet another expansion, without fixing stuff that hasn't been touched in 5+ years and was broken when it was new.

[@thewhompingwampa2671]

Ark Survival Evolved.

[@UlshaRS]

Consider how many people still play Fallout or Madden games when those games are built using legacy engines with bugs that have gotten exponentially worse even when the community offered fixed. Also Ark Survival Evolved XD

[@hutki_shira]

@@UlshaRS because Bethesda bugs like fallout are funny

[@severdislike4222]

@@thewhompingwampa2671 Conan Exiles is the exact same problem.

[@Skallva]

Speaking as someone who tried dabbling into MMOs multiple times, my quit moment is realising I have no friends to play them with and being too shy to ever try finding new people on my own.

[@jean-claudeallard8359]

I completely agree with you. I used to love ESO when I had my three best friends and little brother playing it (and we met a few really cool people who played with us too) I’ve tried playing it again since they’ve all left the game, it just isn’t fun for me without them, so now I play way more solo targeted games.

[@GustavoFebres]

You dont really need to. I play GW2 and FFXIV like a single player game and it works fine. You will eventually find people using LFG and Guilds.

[@Skallva]

@@GustavoFebres The thing is, what captivates me in MMOs is the second M. Going around the fields with pals, raiding together, just in general hanging out - that's the vibe I wish I could get when playing one of these games. Solo content doesn't really interest me that much. I hear a lot about how amazing FFXIV's story is but the problem is, if I want to experience a long involving storyline, I can just brush off on my massive jRPG backlog instead. Whenever I play an MMO solo, I get a feeling I am just not playing the game right, that I'm missing a part of the appeal. These games are built around player-to-player interactions and playing them without engaging in those systems is kind of like deciding to eat out on vacation in a foreign country and ordering in McDonald's instead of trying out regional food. Plus, the friends of mine that do play MMOs operate in different regions from mine, making the prospect of getting into one that much more awkward.

[@GustavoFebres]

@@Skallva Maybe I didn't express myself well, I meant that they are good games to play alone, because inside, you are going to meet people. In GW2, for example, there are many map events and world bosses (since there is no traditional quest system) where you will run into strangers, and without needing to form a premade group, you can do the quest together. In FFXIV this is similar to FATES and Duty Finder. Also, the looking for group system, while not perfect, allows you in both games to participate in all kinds of end game content. And yes, I think I understand what you're talking about, my friends play video games, but they don't like MMOs very much, until one of them got interested, and I taught him (he lives in Australia, so we have a huge time difference, but that doesn't stop us from playing on weekends) I hope you give them a try, it's a different experience from JRPGs, which I also love to play.

[@justinm4497]

yeah, same.

[@brianshea2515]

My current quit moment: When the creators add a feature that shifts the balance even more in favor of the pay to win players.

[@Coltn3125]

This has been mostly why I have quit. Also game mechanics that are designed to make the game so bad to play unless you pay to stop such and such.

[@Pfyzer]

that's my golden rule for every games now

[@biazacha]

Is sad how common place this is becoming

[@635574]

Just reminds me how Gaeloft released a special event that requires a pay 2 win pass exclusive car just to start, and all the other mandatory cars are also exclusive in the same way. The 2nd car is also locked to legend pass exclusive car hunt. The immediate next grand prix that runs in parallel to it also removed guaranteed blueprints and only has the RNG packs in the relay deal. That is on top of not a single new car obtainable from the shop for the last year since last time I quit and they have a few NFT out as well but nobody cares IMO.

[@jooot_6850]

War Thunder 💀

[@Cornbane]

Blizzard: "Everyone is quitting WoW! Quick, replace all the paintings of women with fruit!"

[@Red_Lanterns_Rage]

phallic fruit right?? eh, eh?? ugh lots of bananas....and little grapes..... 😈

[@noname-gp6hk]

PROBLEM SOLVED

[@daddyernie2289]

everyone quit WoW cuz its boring. with the removal of side boob mabe they will kill off Sylvanis finally

[@daddyernie2289]

@L M it is dead! noone i know plays that boring game anymore

[@RasmusN]

World of Warcraft is not dead yet! But the playerbase are surely going down everyday with players quitting the game, maybe forever

[@llywyllngryffyn8053]

My Quit moment on Everquest is the most memorable to me. I had a character with pristine Faction in the City of Freeport. The guards would 'kindly consider me' in both upper and lower fFP. Basically I was so well liked that they would have asked me to date their sisters. Then one of my Guild Mates needed help with a quest for his Paladin Holy Weapon. In that quest, he had to kill Sir Lucan DeLear who was the captain of the Freeport Militia. ... Twice. Once as normal and then once again as the super Death Knight he turned into. Now, this quest was like level 55-60 and my character was a Level 42 Rogue. Not much help but I was there for my Guild mate and joined in. Little did I know that if you partake of this quest, you instantly drop to the absolute bottom on faction for the Militia. Kill On Sight. The actual damage I did to that guy over the two fights wouldn't have killed a Mid Levl Mob but that wasn't relevant. I now had to sneak through my home city like a Dark Elf just to go to the bank. That was my home port and I just suddenly took a -20,000 Faction hit for being grouped with a guy doing a quest. That was my moment. Well, actually, the moment was right after what I learned was needed to fix the faction. I had to do a stupid repeatable quest in the Erudite capitol that involved running up and down stairs for a few minutes and delivering junk to NPCs. It gave you 1 faction and would have taken me about 3 minutes per run. I only needed to repeat this quest about 15,000 times to get back to the point where they wouldn't KOS me. Gosh, that's only Seven Months of constant play without sleep, food, or bathroom breaks... No thanks.

[@UlshaRS]

Early years of MMO had so many guildies quit cause the only content left was "grind 50,000 of this 1 mob that only spawns in this small place 2-4 at a time and takes 5-12 minutes to respawn" and good frikking luck if someone else was trying to grind it because kill stealing was a thing and they just just had to have the highest number to make all your effort pointless. It's where a lot of us learned to value the time we were wasting plinking away at pixels. By plinking pixels somewhere else 🤣

[@llywyllngryffyn8053]

@@UlshaRS Guild Camping was another thing that made life tough if you weren't a guildie. I had even seen it where if a non-guild group was camping a thing the guild group wanted, they would find the biggest, nastiest mob in the zone and have the high level guildies train that mob to the place they wanted to clear out. After the giant thing had killed all the low level people there, the max level guildie would kill it and let his guid group camp the spot.

[@penzotoko6619]

When I first read your post I thought you were being hyperbolic...then I did the math. That's 31 frickin' days! I don't blame you....quit moment.

[@Jeff-om5rb]

@@UlshaRS you talking about rep for furbogs in Fel Woods Wow lol that was a 100% on the money there

[@Xipingu]

And this is actually a prime example of being way too demanding of people's time. Yeah, sure, nothing against those hardcore players that wants it to be that way, but I believe there is "hard and grindy but fun" difficulties - and then there's the "you need to spend your life here 24/7 grindy and NO fun" difficulties. Games need to be fun and challenging. Not stupidly time wasting where the only challenge is to spend months doing the same over and over, unless you can kind of afk while doing so. Runescape, for example, as far as I know, is a game where you can do that.

[@dalekdalek4324]

My main quit-moment for 'new' MMO's: Overwhelming starting cities. You know this moment. You've played through the tutorial section and the noob-area for a while, got slowly used to the first mechanics and the world.... the quest hub was a gathering of 5-6 huts and tents with some generic guard-guys... And suddenly out of nowhere you get to the 'actual' main hub city. A gigantic map with a million map signals you don't recognize, a hundred players spamming their particle-effect skills, and a thousand mini-quest givers including those for whatever the current seasonal event is right now... And suddenly you find yourself stuck in analysis paralysis and you don't have the faintest clue on what you are supposed to do now (or in what order). Don't get me wrong, a lot of diverse content isn't a bad thing! But you can't just fucking dump that shit on a new players head three minutes after he figured out the core combat mechanics XD

[@Gaudron-fp4nc]

I had that exact moment happen in The Elder Scrolls Online. Did the first two islands, doing fine and all then I arrived at Daggerfall and absolutely bombarbed with 20+ questlines for various DLC, seasonal events, guilds, somewhere the main story, crafting etc... Tried doing a bit, found myself spending more time running from A to B and just left it there.

[@alexanderneumann960]

Reading through your comment gave me anxiety. This is absolutely true.

[@riccardokropik5118]

I feel the Same nowadays about many singleplayergames. Where there is this one big City where you have suddenly so many New Options and New mechanics. And as i personally feel Like i have to Talk to everyone in the City and See everything, i get overwhelmed fast.

[@Gloriankithsanus]

I actually had this FF14 the first time I played it. I only came back for friends and gave it another try, but then it was pretty good. But I did actually have that quit moment.

[@predwin1998]

@@Gaudron-fp4nc I know what you mean. I didn't have this issue nearly as bad in ESO since I started before Morrowind got released. When the cities weren't filled up with introductions to each and every expansion like they are now. But I absolutely recognize that, while ESO can be very much worth pushing through it (still not for everyone ofc), those cities are a definite quit moment. In fact, I'm a member of two separate communities that draw new players and I try to guide them. The advice I give most often is based on which quests you should and shouldn't accept in order to avoid being too overwhelmed. As much as I love ESO, that is definitely an issue.

[@everwake2689]

Every MMO has a hamster wheel at the end. The challenge is to design that hamster wheel so that it's engaging and not just depressing daily busywork.

[@danlotroth9231]

Specially when you decide to play the tank, ie usually 2 from the twenty playing, not to mention that you relying on the healer to keep you tanking while dps does the damages. It's relying on the variant playing well

[@goransekulic3671]

Yes, designing fun activities isn't an easy job.

[@rso823]

Keyword is "daily" i think mmo's get ruined by daily quests as it encourages cash shop to save time

[@seancarroll9849]

The grind eventually gets to a person. That describes Warcraft perfectly for me; the leveling was more fun than the grind. I had learned to find fun and efficient ways to clear a zone, in unconventional ways. Some classes were good for unconventional tactics, i.e. Monk. I didn't mind the Tank/Healer/DPS triad too much, so long as the DPS doesn't pull threat and stays out of the death zones that is.

[@Jurcen]

GW2 has a billion of wheels, but you can choose one to spin at that moment. And that's great. That's why I return to it and gonna stay.

[@CyrilHoogeboom]

I quit a lot of online games recently due to 'special events'. Instead of logging into a game and enjoy the progress I can make during a session, I'm constantly reminded of all the rewards I'm missing out on due to not willing to sacrifice all my time to that game. The few times I did manage to grind a 'special' reward ship, tank or whatever, I quitted the next session due to burn out.

[@aldentepotato]

Sounds like Genshin Impact.

[@AlitaGunm99]

Just had this with World of Warplanes. Was playing 2-3 hours a day for the Christmas special, didn't make it all the way, burned out.

[@carnlin390]

yea, it feels bad when special events hold key resources for progression and rather than "special" they feel like chores.... Crowns in Genshin zzz

[@supersentaipepsi3736]

Planetside 2 directives in a nutshell. "OK, you killed 300 heavy assaults, you only have 1 directive left, kill 1200 of them now"

[@Iisho]

@@aldentepotato Yea I'm currently on a Genshin burn out. Played it nearly everyday for a year, got tired of the grind and dropped it for FFXIV maybe a little over a month ago. It's not my intention to completely quite Genshin, but currently I have no interest in getting on it.

[@aldentepotato]

My "I quit" moment for MMOs is when I realize that logging in feels like clocking in. I didn't (still don't) have much time at the end of the day, and don't want to spend it doing the same dailies over and over and over again to get a decent set of PvP gear in order to have fun post game story. I don't want to run the same dungeon over and over and over again for the same reason. Genshin is getting like that, I really don't want to do the same dailies over and over again, I really don't like the feeling of LOG IN NOW OR MISS THIS EVENT AND MISS OUT FOREVER ON THIS ITEM AND THIS CHARACTER, and I don't like the endless grind for character items that hardly ever give you what you're running for, let alone with the stats you want on those items. I much rather like to play one and done games with a story (Bioshock, We Happy Few, Dark Souls), not an MMO I have to put countless hours in in order to keep up with the baseline of other players and have fun. I do have my weak moments where I miss my blood DK in WoW, though. 😩

[@flix1179]

the only thing thats i like in new world is that, they don`t force u to do anything, u can do all the thing in u own time, those as one of few things that i like new world

[@clawso9014]

May I suggest Deep Rock Galactic?

[@aldentepotato]

@@clawso9014 ROCK AND STONE, BROTHER!

[@clawso9014]

@@aldentepotato For Karl!

[@konan2206]

Right now I'm trying to motivate myself to log on and do my dailies

[@PlumPoko]

That moment when you just finished creating your character and having your feet touch the world, and then BAM! A bombardment of mechanics you can't even initiate, and an instant introduction to the cash shop.

[@stormdragon2529]

and the giant skill tree which you understand jack shet

[@raogzero1842]

@@stormdragon2529 "Shit did you just put 3 points into the frost weapon skill tree, now you are unoptimized and basically a failure as the class you are playing and will now need to pay 30 dollars to reset your skill tree"

[@spontaneousbootay]

Cash shop constantly popping up in your face

[@cattysplat]

For me it is cutscenes, just endless interruptions to gameplay. Let me play the game goddamnit!

[@dreioo8759]

The insane UI and especially the opened cash shop in the first moment is an instand turn off. I had to grit my teeth to go past it and enjoy some SWTOR...

[@Martell364]

You showing it, reminded me of my quit moment in Warframe: The endless grinding. While I'm sure there are a lot of people who enjoy it, it just wasn't fun to me, to have to play certain missions over and over again, to get certain materials, then wait for a day until my weapon is fully crafted, then realising that the weapon itself is not leveled, so I can't use it for missions that fit my level and I now have to play a bunch of low level missions to get my new weapon up to speed, so I can finally use it for the missions I originally wanted to use it for. I get exhausted just writing this.

[@635574]

The early experience is wasting your times in low levels where your kill speed with low rank mods (if you even understand how to rank and use mods) is bad and so is the xp per time therefore getting new items feels more like a punishment. The actual cause of this is the crappy xp gains on early planets and absence of actual rewarding xp per objective completion where even exterminate has no completion reward whatsoever because they treat that as basic filler mission type. Obviously this would be sorted out by a gradually decreasing booster to xp credits and endo every day for the players that just dont have thime to waste on grinding until they go far into the starchart to unlock the good time efficient content. ESO where you can level frame in public under half hour and weapons in 5 minutes sometimes. The Index where you make 250K credits per wager in about 5m or profit taker boss speedruns with 125K that is susceptible to every doubling boost in the game, and the railjack arena or narmer bounties for several thousand raw endo with chance of more every few minutes.

[@omorfia1358]

God, I left Warframe for FFXIV. I know your pain, brother.

[@justthevojta4347]

I have over 1000 hrs on warframe and I quit for the same reason as probably everyone else, including you. Endless grinding for weapons I thought I needed, then needing to grind levels for it, use forma on it, and level it up again. At the same time, I got tired of grinding and trading platinum for in-game components, since I had very little money to spare on games. The meta also shifts fast, faster than most casual players can catch up to. You've got no real objective in the game. The game is essentialy luck-based when it comes to rivens, and you can become incredibly rich if you're lucky, but when you're not, you've got a shit ton of grind ahead of you - Essentially pay2win I shifted my focus to other games, especially Guild Wars 2, a game that's essentialy the same when it comes to grinding, but more fun, and varied in that department. In warframe, you have to do one type of mission on 3 planets, that look basically the exact same to get the material/component you need, whereas in Guild Wars 2, you can find most things around the whole map, or just buy them from other players using the trading post system. Small changes that change the grind could save a lot of players.

[@635574]

@@justthevojta4347 the biggest problems in warframe design is that its all about grinding shit based on some dropchance and that all the missions are boring rehash of the same basic types and have none or terrible rewards unless its a more specialized mode. Hence base starchart is a just set of checkboxes that you only do once and never touch. Their lead UI and gameplay dev said last year in devstream that they're not going to work on improving existing gamemodes. What he implies is because he doesnt want to make them more complicated.

[@razrafz]

i quitted warfame because of motion sickness lmao

[@merylml1148]

"Imagine playing an online game and suddenly you're attacked by other over-leveled players and killed" yup, that's pretty much why I never played Albion again, losing 4 days of progress it's not fun or challenging, it's a waste of time

[@ericb3157]

yep, i had a similar experience in EVE online. permanent loss of ships AND all PVP all the time everywhere always...NOT my type of game.

[@flameshoter6]

@@ericb3157 I've tried the mobile version. Progressing felt great. Losing felt awful. The group that I was in, became a branch of a bigger guild. Another guild started making claim to the area and the whole guild couldn't do anything. So we tried switching locations, and I basically lost everything trying to move to a new area. So I quit because no one really helped out and it was a waste of time. Was on another mobile game that requires guilds. We completed the initial game once, they become strict and threw petty fits- which because of any drama, you get kicked for the dumbest reasons.... Which is why I absolutely hate guilds. Felt more like working in a corporate office than trying to enjoy the game.

[@tyranmcgrathmnkklkl]

Lol why's you even bother with that game

[@tyranmcgrathmnkklkl]

Thanks tho, reviews like these save us from making the same mistake

[@whatsnewbois9814]

Ouch! I felt that one, same here

[@NovaaGrind]

My quit moment 1. Never ending gear grinding after level cap 2. Repetitive events instead of new mechanics 3. Pay to win, broken classes pvp

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

Here's something though: it's utterly impossible to get rid of all player quit moments. For some, certain elements might be what entice them to stay while others are put off. The only thing devs need to balance for is sustainability, so the real problem arises when you can't keep players long enough to keep a project sustainable.

[@HeavyMetalMouse]

The strongest 'quit moment' I can recall experiencing in any game is the "Gotcha" moment. The moment when I am invited (or required) to make a choice of options to take, am given a list of options to select from, then select one, only to find out that my selection is 'wrong'. Not because it is a puzzle that has a right and wrong answer that I did not figure out, but because the game *lied* to me. The game said "Here are a bunch of things we made for you to enjoy doing!" and when I picked one, it smacked me and said "But not that one, it sucks!" This could be something as simple as a useless skill eating up precious limited skill points (without any kind of respec, or a very limited respec), or as major as a class/build that is unsuitable for the style of game you're playing. It can often manifest as the game giving you options but then not giving you sufficient information about those options or the actual usefulness of them to make an informed decision. (Should I put points in Survival skill, for tracking enemies and wilderness survival? Probably not in a game that's going to be entirely urban intrigue and instanced combat! But there's no way I could have known that - Gotcha!) Challenge the player, even lay traps for the player in the game itself - but the actual gameplay mechanics should *never* be a trap in and of themselves. The latter shows a clear disrespect for your players, their time, and their intelligence; it is a major Quit Moment.

[@Valvad0ss]

Holy shit so true

[@Fiangard]

It's ok, the skill reset items are on the Cash Shop :^)

[@shutup1037]

sounds like PSO2

[@the11382]

That’s how I felt about Star Trek Online doing my first PvP. The game effectively told me that everything is wrong and I needed to spend money to respec. This game didn’t have any free respecs, all IRal cash.

[@benedict6962]

The awkward variation I encountered was in FFXIV's crossclass abilities. They tried so hard to balance and prune what can be inherited that only a handful can be chosen. On the one hand, it's the only way to balance the game so that crossclassing isn't required and the average player doesn't make themselves actually worse by picking a bad skill. On the other hand, it makes the mechanic look TINY and insignificant.

[@Ionweopon]

My quit moment is realizing that I don't have the time i once had to play games, and my friends who do have that time get far far ahead of me in terms or progress and it feels like a chore to catchup.

[@xLionsxxSmithyx]

Yup.

[@andrewgardner58]

This

[@AlitaGunm99]

Play casually for an hour a night, and realize everyone you're interacting with is a fulltime gamer and you'll never get close to keeping up.

[@kalmah456]

Find a new hobby and find new friends. There, problem solved.

[@XxXQuickScoperXxXJoinTheParty]

Ketchup

[@IridescenceMGS]

The last MMO I quit was WoW. Had never played it before. I came from TERA then moved to FF14. But the WoW community made me hate the game the first time I stepped into group content. I was healing. Was still a bit confused on how the game worked. Got sworn at, told I was shit then booted from the party. Instantly uninstalled. Went back to FF14. It has its issues. But at least the people are nice.

[@xXturbo86Xx]

If you where confused on how WoW worked...then you shouldn't play games. Yeah i'm "toxic", but honestly, that's the truth. WoW is so EASY to play that it almost feels a game for kids.

[@Jack-fw4mw]

@@xXturbo86Xx Nah. Early instance content is so easy for enough of the community, that they kinda expect to just pull through to the boss as quickly as possible. If your healer is still getting used to their heals (and isn't well geared, because they are _new to the game_), doesn't understand the UI and targeting (maybe they came from Runescape), then it is very easy to see how being thrown into instanced content can be overwhelming at first. For someone who is used to the Wow style MMO, it may seem second nature but for many people the structure is foreign.

[@machineofadream]

​@@xXturbo86Xx Truth? We don't even know what the person was confused about. Knowing WoW, the tank probably ran in and pulled literally the entire dungeon up to the boss, and this brand new healer was expected to know what was going on, and that this was normal behavior.

[@UlshaRS]

@@xXturbo86Xx you can take the " " of toxic because you are definitionally the toxic a$$h0le who makes players quit and develop self esteem issues. You confuse experience for ease of use because you invested so much of yourself min/maxing that anyone not on your level is wasting your time. That could be a moment to mentor but the community in WoW has always been toxic, it's built on a hardline dichotomy and encouraged griefing. It's why so many players left for friendlier community games like GW2. Even when I sucked tanking in ESO people chided in the moment but they also tried to help once we stepped back.

[@paulcarroll6995]

Its allright dude, The party you were with were probably also shit but you were too new to know it. Wows Entire community identiy is based entirely on Shitting on "bad players" whilst following a strictly defined , do not deviate from, scripted meta where addons LITERALLY play the game for them. Avoid that game like the plague.

[@FoNgThOnG]

"Public opinion of your company turning bad" Activision/Blizzard: *sweating intensifies*

[@xelldincht8149]

EA: *sweating intensifies*

[@alexreilly6121]

yea its funny how all he showed then was a bunch of people publicly 'quitting' a game just to pander to ramdom feminazi bs.

[@TitaniumBandaidsl6718]

The way you described the feeling of returning to an RPG after a while away was so spot on. I typically just start a new game. I cannot tell you how many times I started Dragon Age over and over again lol.

[@Nirual86]

yeah I usually started playing a new character until I got the hang of the basics again, be they old or completely new.

[@zubrhero5270]

You leave them for 5 minutes and go back to them and you have instantly forgotten where you are and why you're there.

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

This is why I never finished a game longer than 4 hours until I achieved adulthood- Starting over constantly.

[@babstra55]

yeah I make a new character and start from zero, that seems to make it feel relevant again. I've probably had the most fun in mmos doing that over and over.

[@zubrhero5270]

I can count on one hand the amount of times I've completed my _so-called_ "favourite game ever" Morrowind. But, I reckon I've had more characters than I've had hot dinners lol.

[@galidornelkenmeer]

I remember quitting Albion after really starting to get into the game after entering into a PVP area and immediately getting killed and losing virtually everything I had accumulated to that point. I had forgotten to store a lot of items that I should have, but still being reduced in an instant to almost 0 after working for many, many hours was a complete turn off and told me that this wasn't the game for me.

[@Silverholic]

Same happened to me in Dark age of Camelot. After doing PvE for weeks, finaly leveled to be able to go to the PvP zone. Enter the zone and get 1 shot killed. Log out, uninstall.

[@AlitaGunm99]

Aion. Started out as a kind of neat MMORPG. Then you hit a certain point, and it becomes a battle royale, and you're impotent because you're not level eleventy billion. Quit moment.

[@antonsimmons8519]

@@AlitaGunm99 Yeah, I got to that point in Aion(which literally does not tell you it's a pvp game, or it didn't back then) and suddenly all progression was gankbox. Log out. Uninstall.

[@ufoconc]

This is one of my favorite videos from you! In user experience the concept is friction vs. drive. A person has only so much drive to perform a task, and every point of friction they interact with will reduce their drive. If at any point the friction is more than their drive to complete the task, they'll generally bail from the task. Of course, there is more complexity to it than that (like some people will purposely push through this just to see if there's a pay off). My personal point of friction? Artificial time gates. "You can only do this once per day / week / month" or "You have a limited resource you must spend to access this content, and that resource can ONLY be regenerated with time." Genshin Impact had one of the most notable "quit moments' for me lately. They restrict players from playing the game with a time gated resource. Once you run out of the resources that cost this time gated resource, the only way you can continue to improve your account is by waiting 24 hours. It feels like your shoe laces are tied together and you're slowly shuffling across the floor. I would still be playing that game right now if it wasn't for how punishing that system is currently. The friction of having to start and stop an activity based on managing a time based resource greatly outweighed my drive to enjoy the game.

[@rsmith4339]

i've experienced most of the quit moments you mentioned . I was surprised you missed my most common mmo quit moment . The moment you realize you're being jerked around . You're feeling accomplished by grinding to max skill , or level , or craft , and that achievement is rendered valueless by the latest expansion , or new endgame grind , or a new currency .

[@hohenzollern6025]

Mudflation killed eq2 for me. I get that you need to be able to continue building your toon up with each expansion, but they just made the numbers rediculous. It's like they just added a zero to the previous expac. You add a zero to the wrong stat (crit bonus) and the compounded amount of power just renders everything else in the entire game trivial. I remember the hype of finally getting that 1 million dps mark. at the time, it seemed like that was obscene... but not a year later, single hits are hitting so hard, the numbers became unreadable. You cant even grasp if you are doing well, when your screen is full of number strings so long, they lose all meaning. When the parser for that game stops working, because it just didnt account for gajillions. It just got stupid. Havent been back there in years. And I do miss eq2, was a fun time in it's hayday. It aint that game any more.

[@JagEterCoola]

@@hohenzollern6025 In my honest opinion, no game should make 1000 Damage feel pitiful or average unless you're at the end-game, or it's a critical hit/special or long cooldown ability - You know, the situations which you'd expect to deal a lot of damage. In a way, "1000" is kind of arbitrary, but it is the earliest number that even if you're not looking at the actual NUMBERS, you still see that it was four digits - Something exceptional. The more zeros you add to this, the less you notice it. 1000 vs 10000 is till distinguishable, but when you have 3-5 things dealing damage at a time, good fucking luck telling the difference between 1000, 10000, and 100000, especially if they overlap. Some games try to circumvent this by using 'K' instead of Thousand, but that instead makes 1k feel even more pitiful if you went from 900 to 1k - Even if you understand that 1k = 1000, it's still a physically smaller number. Your subconsciousness has already reacted negatively by the time your consciousness understands that it's MORE damage, not less. There's a handful of ways to fix this though. Keeping numbers very small initially so that they can scale further later. There's a slight problem with this as it limits the damage spread across levels: A level 1 dealing 1-3 damage and a level 60 dealing 100-300 damage, which big, isn't anywhere near as big as a level 1 dealing 1-3 damage and a level 60 dealing 600-900 damage, and it can make it difficult to balance boss encounters when a guy doing 70-150 damage is still contributing nearly as much to the boss kill as a guy doing 84-180 damage on average. Now, mechanics like Block, Parry, Dodge, Avoidance, Spell Resistance, etc, that scale vs player level (As in, less vs higher level players) helps mitigate this problem. It gives other ways to get stronger that isn't just bigger numbers, so I 100% approve of this. The player that hits 100% of attacks dealing 70-150 for an average of 110 will have dealt just as much damage as the guy that hit 80% of his attacks dealing 84-180 (Which is a 20% increase), making the damage scaling of the game non-linear and helps to reduce bloat. In the case of say, old WoW before people figured everything out in 04-05, in most cases Arms or Fury 2handed warrior specs vastly outperformed their dualwield counterparts, because while they hit fewer times over a minute, they hit a lot harder, and significantly more consistently - Dualwield suffered from a -24% Chance to hit white attacks, and had to deal with the same 10% Parry and 6% Dodge chance as the 2H specs did (Most which was negated by standing behind an enemy or with weapon skill.) Either way, I'm getting ahead of myself. I think a good MMO should work within the thousands, not the tens or hundreds of. I genuinely believe there's a big problem with massive numbers that causes people to get bored, or makes their work feel meaningless due to how minute the difference is at the end of the day. For example, if you do 100 Damage per Second over a 5 minute (300 seconds) fight against an enemy with say, 300,000 Health, you will have done 10% of that enemy's health at the end of the fight. A weapon drops that increases your damage done by 10. Next raid, that same boss, you do 110 Damage per second and do 33000 damage, a linear 10% progression, ie 11% of the bosses health. Now take the same argument but multiply everything by 100x. You do 10000 damage per second over a 5 minute (300 second) fight against an enemy with 30,000,000 Health. You still do 10% of the enemy's health. You get a weapon upgrade that increases your damage by 10%, so from 10000 to 11000. You do the same fight and get 11% damage through. You've done effectively the exact same thing in both situations, but it feels _less_ rewarding in the second situation, because 10,000

[@Tymbee]

@@JagEterCoola I get where you're coming from with the damage numbers, but I don't really agree. Like the thing where they convert 2000 to 2k. I think it still feels impactful enough without cluttering the screen, or making you feel underpowered. IMO, I don't think the numbers themself are the issue. The thing you're describing with scaling HP still equating to roughly the same feeling is a more systemic issue with a lot of games. Like a level 1 Player fighting a level 5 Rat feeling the same as a level 10 Player fighting a level 50 Rat. If my time-to-kill is the same regardless, I don't care what the damage numbers are, it's still going to feel like I haven't progressed or become more powerful. This is a pretty common problem for all RPGs. There's a couple solutions. You could go with the go with the Morrowind/New Vegas approach of having enemies never scale, and progressive difficulty being determined by new more difficult areas with higher level enemies. This also results in early areas becoming easier as you progress. Most MMOs already do this style of map design, but don't give you a good reason to return to earlier areas. Usually they cut off XP gains, and make any material reward paltry compared to higher level content. This never gives you a reason to go back and flex on the enemies that used to give you trouble, which kind of defeats the point imo. In something like Morrowind, there'd still be a reason to fight low level enemies because pretty much everything drops something useful for alchemy, which's usefulness is tied to effects rather than the enemy's level (unlike with leveled gold drops). You also might still do a low level quest for narrative reasons, which is rare for an MMO. The other solution is to add additional mechanical difficulty. Like giving harder enemies new abilities, spells, or status effects. This also includes things like raid mechanics. In a shooter, maybe later enemies dodge attacks, or deploy barricades which force you to flank. This could help diversify things beyond just HP padding. This kind of difficulty is more tedious to develop, because it requires specific mechanics to be coded/animated. This is why in a lot of MMOs it's reserved just for raids. It's much easier to just bump up the level/HP of an enemy than make bespoke mechanics. Idk, there's not any one easy solution, especially when you work with such a large scope as an MMO.

[@dex6782]

For me most often "quit moment" is as soon as I feel game forces FOMO effect on me. Various games as service I loved pushed me away just because they use seasons/events with collectible or power increasing rewards. Game becomes like job at that point. And at that moment I just quit.

[@FluffyTailedPrince]

omg yes, it's so draining!

[@updown2576]

Absolutely agree with you on this. That's why I quit Archeage, Genshin Impact, or nearly any modern MMORPG, and even classic wow. Yes, classic wow, I love that game. But let me clarify it: I love vanilla wow. This whole progression, "if I don't play now, I won't experience phase 3, and then everyone will move on to tbc", I just hated that. I rather continue to play on private servers, where I don't have this feeling at all, everyone plays there, because they love this game, not just chasing the next hype.

[@brentsta]

I kinda agree Seasonal events rule, but only if it's a little thing to do, like a ten or twenty minute quest or something, or it comes every year and you can get it whenever it comes back around But yeah most games are what you described and it sucks

[@SuperPixelRush]

Thats why I refuse to go back to Destiny 2 until they sort their shit out. I dont want to feel like I have to log in to do things or I'm going to miss content. So I'm just not going to despite my friends wanting me to go back.

[@bahamutkaiser]

This is a real bother, it's almost enough to drive me away, but if I'm already involved enough to collect on most of it, it's just content to me.

[@voidling2632]

As a game designer I'm glad to have found this channel, these are really good points and are valid not only for multiplayer but for single player games too. Something minor but I'm left handed and there are many left handed person out there using a right handed setup but not me. I use arrow keys, numpad and mouse on my left with right click as left click. Unfortunately, some games override the windows mouse setting and reverse it back.... beeing forced to play as a right handed, that's a quit moment for me.

[@babstra55]

also us with various finger function problems suffer doubly for this, and the inflexibility of remapping controls make so many games unplayable. and there's millions of us, almost invariably big gamers.

[@UlshaRS]

Being able to remap key binds is something I'm glad Josh has on his checklist of 'is this game just the worst' and why the simple line of code when it does text prompts to either checks against the key binds or just display 'use this function' prompt instead just going with USE [X] KEY goes far in showing me is that the designer/ coder/ developer considers players requirements or restrictions and gives a path for wider accessibility.

[@somebvnny]

I remember accidentally making a new toon on a pvp server on Everquest, and being killed pretty quickly by a higher level player that was just milling around the beginner's area looking for low level players to bully. hated pvp ever since lol.

[@XxXNOSCOPEURASSXxX]

Your fault for calling them toons

[@TrueInvisible]

pvp in starter area should be criminal and also permanently ban-able

[@cmdrfunk]

@@XxXNOSCOPEURASSXxX Lol i was literally going to comment that a player base that says "toons" is my quit moment

[@CountMondego55]

I have read through a good portion of these comments and I'm surprised that no one has mentioned a quit moment whereby you spend 6 hours a week for 8 weeks raiding for one item that you never get. That was my quit moment for WOW, back in tbc trying to get dst or my t5 chest piece. Wow was fun but it was always just a loot casino.

[@randzopyr1038]

They've significantly reduced that loot casino with a general time-grind. Do the raid, get the token, pick the piece you want. Do it every week until you have the set. It's much more casual-friendly at the expense of loosing a lot of depth. Have a day off to play hassle free? You'll run through current content in no time and end up doing dungeons/pvp unless you have your own goal. Story comes out in bite-sized pieces to make it easier to jump in and out, but actually less rewarding for playing daily. Idk, you can't make everyone happy.

[@queenbean7071]

@@randzopyr1038 If they didn't increase the time lock for most things t be even longer I'd agree, but at this point their just trying to spread out their active player count

[@Lone_Wolf_91]

Yea RNG is my huge no no factor in games and WoW has this only to keep ppl spend more time so they pay more thru monthly subscription. I hate RNG and mechanics that aren't based on skill but only on luck.

[@pepekovallin]

That was my quit moment at some mobile games, you waste an absurd amount of energy for a CHANCE to get what you want. Recently I had one of these at "Marvel STRIKE Force", every stage has a limited amount of times that you can play for a CHANCE to get the item, or the character fragment that you want, this is so stupid, there were days that I've spent 3 days spending energy at one mission to get a character, but the damn thing never came one single time, that game is a huge bullshit

[@BleedForTheWorld]

I hate to be that guy but, only 6 hours per week? That's not enough if you want to get that rare drop and it never does. You have to grind somewhere around twice that much. Don't shoot the messenger but that's been my experience with the rarest of drops.

[@StriderWolf]

the "I quit" moment for me in Neverwinter was seeing the price tag on the Dragonborn race. literally the only player race in the game I have any interest in and theyre like $80. its not that I don't have the money for it, its just that I cannot in good conscience support that level of greed and anti consumer practice. not to mention having played the game for a while with a human character I experienced first hand just how awful the game is as a pay to win experience.

[@intruder313]

You don’t even need to state you have the money : that price is insane Even if it was a lot cheaper I’d be wary of such a model

[@s.c.2180]

They should've put it as a reward for a campaign or dungeon/trial (tiamat/lostmauth)

[@Rezuvious]

That's the reason I don't have necromancer for diablo 3, they didn't charge something absurd like $75 for the dragonborn race, but the price is $22 for me. It is literally $8 cheaper then the expansion it should have been part of.

[@dosbilliam]

Sort of makes me think of DDO and how unlocking Drow on the server you were playing on just required grinding out 400 Favor, which is something you could do without spending a single cent. :P There are other problems with the monetization in Turbine/Standing Stone Games games, but that's not one of them. :P

[@peterseijen8224]

@@s.c.2180 yes, best way

[@puffer_frog]

My quit moments: Warframe: It was fun until I practically did everything, became OP and any new content at that time was either new weapons or NEW EBIC OBEN WORLD TM. Genshin Impact: I was so pissed at doing the daily quests for shitty rewards I started feeling dread and trapped whenever I opened Genshin. What's worse is that the anxiety of not rolling my favourite characters with the meager gems is constantly looming over me. Random Mobile Card Game: I just simply refused to be a paypiggy and quit

[@windows10sovietedition86]

still waiting for New War.

[@a4arick106]

Genshin is slowly becoming trash, at least how the devs treated the players, and the playerbase itself. Now i'm still playing it, already on AR55, and pretty much got nothing to do aside from waiting the next event, spending resin for something that is pretty steep, and daily quest with the steepest rewards ever. The moment you hit endgame, you'll also realize the Pay2Win system is slowly surfacing, you didn't have any income for the premium currency, aside from dailies and future events.

[@carlangelo653]

Yeah same same. Warframe: Became too OP had nothing left to do. Genshin: Got really boring really quickly. BDO: Have nothing else to do. Hopefully new world lasts a bit longer. I'll take it slowly and not go "no life" hopefully I get to enjoy it longer.

[@Gidi66]

@@carlangelo653 The biggest issue genshin has is most players burned threw basically everything to do in game and with the devs taking so long to make updates basically left players just getting bord and have nothing to do for months at a time, like a just spend the entire day yesterday just finished everything the last update added and now I'm just walking around in game and hearing the same 2 voice lines over and over.

[@this_is_japes7409]

warframe's core control scheme of movement, shooting, warframe abilities and melee mechanics are super fun and are still super fun, but it's just the progression tied to everything that hampers the game down. syndicate/faction points farming is just the worst and what's worst is there are no catch up mechanics like other mmos. there's nothing to help you increase or challenge your mastery of the game's systems, all you do is spam and tank and grind.

[@sleepysera]

I never once quit an MMO over content or anything of that sort. Everytime I left an MMO, it was because it FELT like it was dying - all my friends leaving and no new people to befriend, bugs and exploits piling up because the devs don't care anymore to fix them, sudden massive price raises for basic commodities to get the same amount of money out of a dwindling playerbase, etc. So I said goodbye while I still had mostly good memories, instead of waiting til the servers actually shut down and see it become a worse and worse husk of itsself. The community is what makes an MMO what it is. It's like an avalanche; if people start leaving, that in itsself makes others leave too, and the more are gone, the worse it becomes for everyone else, making them leave too :x

[@TheScaleoh]

Well said. I also like how you put Gazette on your pop-list

[@agrume_music]

Fun fact, real life starts looking like a dying MMORPG : - The homies areliving their life and taking their distances because they're busy. - Social distancing prevent people for socializing - Every price of basic stuff is rising so hard that we don't know how to handle this

[@OxnardMontalvoYT]

Genshin impact has the quit moment when your realize for high level content you need to equip and level 2 full teams, but the level curve has you barely keeping up with leveling and gearing 3/4 of a team with a utility character thrown into the party. You realize you can't level up characters on a whim to try them, as it's a huge resource dump, and you might not be able to use a character you like simply because you need a diverse mix of attributes in your party, and you can't spend resources on a character that is just for fun

[@palladiamorsdeus]

Kinda reminds me of Gundam Battle Operation 1. Since you only had a limited number of sorties per day and rewards greatly increased for wins you could never spend any time in suits you just liked unless they happened to be good enough, which was rare. You also had public opinion going on in a game where the lobby leader could kick you so even if you sortied in a suit you were amazing with you could get kicked for not being 'meta'.

[@masterrahool4774]

you just discribed exactly why i quit genshin

[@jvckiwai7715]

Genshin isn't an mmo, but a gacha game so that's literally the point. They want you to spend moneyy, so they add many systems and 5 star chars and weapons...

[@jenniferchaulam]

/this is why i hate spiral abyss, its like the promotional level for the featured character. A new healer is out? Easy, make a system that lets you die faster! A new character who cant do AOE? just make all the enemies single target lol i am still very new and havent gotten to the point where i feel like i MUST do spiral abyss, so i still level all my characters up on a whim, then mix matching them in a way the meta whores hate just to try it out. besides, i still new and haven't gotten many characters, so it doesnt cost as much. for the exception of kokomi whose playstyle change DRASTICALLY after artifacts(the clams are great dont get me wrong), i dont farm artifacts for anyone. that's a huge scam smh, screw the rng and the resin cap. even worst than loot boxes I've stop doing ascension quests, and lower my world level so that all my lvl 60/70 characters stand a fighting chance against anything lol (also i dont need to worry about the cost of leveling them higher). in the end, i make my own spiral abyss and that's going to different bosses just to try out my physical zhongli.(ps. i dont have zhongli, this is an example) If you care enough to hear one of my suggestion, lmao, tell me, imma give you some suggestions

[@jenniferchaulam]

@@palladiamorsdeus /holy heck that sounds like those meta slaves who kicked me edit: (this is in a genshin lobby) if i'm the lobby owner i just let everyone in lmao. worst case that happened was we all failed. twiced. then i went out and said "yall might need to find a better lobby than this" then kicked everyone out due to embarassment

[@mimimalloc]

There's a point in many modern games I like to call the "gacha horizon" where the lovebombing with currency or other progression mechanics rapidly grinds to a halt and/or you hit a large arbitrary stat wall. If I see it I know the game will be miserable and bow out.

[@ferinzz]

Curious if you're referencing 'F2P' games or games in general. If it's a paid game, they just did terrible pacing. If it's F2P, well... That's how their model works, sadly.

[@ballzz2thewall]

I assume you mean f2p games and not modern games. But I can see why you think thats the same thing.

[@mimimalloc]

@@ballzz2thewall It's most common in f2p games but its permeated the market in general and many paid games with microtransactions use the model

[@ferinzz]

​@@mimimalloc "with microtransactions" So you mean the Fee to pay :D Yes, if there is any sort of additional payment post purchase in a game, there is an incentive for the developer to create content and balance said content in a way that will prohibit a player's progression without additional payments. Even if this isn't the case, simply having those 'boosters' will cause the player to feel like they're missing out and leave a negative sensation in their play session.

[@PRlDE-]

This^ is when I quit most/all the gachas games

[@RangerX3X]

Quit moment: "Incorporates 3rd-party DRM: Denuvo Anti-tamper"

[@nervsouly]

The only company who ever managed to sell an ineffective anti piracy tool, that instead keeps legit customers from playing smoothly. I simply don't understand why game devs keep throwing money at Denuvo.

[@squallofthedai]

If it has Denuvo, it's a case of "Don't even start the game" moment.

[@ericb3157]

yes, i once had to quit a game because of a third-party "security" program that made it impossible to start the game at all. i even tried to contact the makers of the security program, and their ONLY reply was to reinstall THE GAME. AND they couldn't even get the name of the game right! i sent them THREE messages saying " I KNOW that re--installing the GAME could not POSSIBLY fix YOUR PROGRAM, but they kept saying "re-install the game" and got the name wrong every time. they didn't even say SAME wong name!

[@genetix72]

I am an ESO player, and for the last couple years I just break away from the game between the months of December until the end of February. Kills "burnout" and as per ZoS schedule, allows me to join back in a the new chapter releases. Made my life a lot simpler and allows me to keep playing a game I truly enjoy.

[@Elcelisto]

I generally quit when the MMO becomes almost like looking for a job. Game tells me to run a dungeon, I try to queue for the dungeon and the time it takes to enter the dungeon takes forever. I be proactive and do advertisements for parties, join guilds etc. and then it's into the loop of Can't run a Dungeon because I've never ran it before and the team wants experienced players to run the dungeon but I can't get said experience if nobody runs the bloody dungeon with us. This was a MASSIVE thing for TERA online for me. I felt like half the game was locked out unless you knew the right people to run dungeons on. Double that with when we decide to try and change that by having people who were experienced set up a guild for helping new people get into this content, we had other guilds start harassing us because they were making money out of selling training runs.

[@Fantome001]

Funny. Quite a while back I quit TERA because I hit 65 and there wasn't anything fun to do. Basically, progression stalled and I wasn't about to do dailies for the rest of forever. Then a few months ago, I hear Awakening changes the game and decided to give it a try. It didn't go well. The enemies were tougher than anything on the Isle of Dawn and the first mini boss ground me to dust. I haven't touched it since because I know running dungeons for much better gear is exactly what I need to do, but I know how people are maximizing efficiency. So, instead of trying to team up as a newbie, or paying for a training run like a lunatic, I gave up. I absolutely hate limited dungeon runs. I know why they do it, but that's exactly the reason people are so pissy about taking newbies and selling training runs.

[@awuerth8952]

Blade and soul in a nutshell but I still love it

[@imrem2872]

lol which server did this happen? I used to play on zenobia, which was kind of a small server and that kinda helped this problem, even the hardcore players sometimes had to do runs with us, since there was times, when you just couldnt find someone else. So that regular endgame players kinda knew each other. On the other hand, which was one of the almost quit moments, is that we didnt have players, sometimes you could advertise in LFG for hours and noone would come, item scarcity was a thing. I wanted to buy a new mount (the blue ookami) for gold, but it took me like 2 months to find one. But it was kinda solved with the server merge. It's true that tera endgame was pretty hectic, do daily dungeons, farm a bit (nexus, lot, reputation quests, vanguard quests etc.) it took like 3-4 hours and that's it. But still I think the biggest guilt of tera was the terrible pace we received the patches from korea. Especially for balance patches. I used to be a lancer main, when the brawler was introduced. I couldnt describe my disappointment and sadness, that I legit could barely play my main for several months, because the balance patches which both class received in 2-4 weeks in korea, we received all at once after 3-5 months usually. A starter gear brawler was 20 times easier to play, and do the dungeons than my geared lancer. Sometimes I legit felt that viping or struggling long was my fault, because I wanted to do the dungeon with my lancer, while I could have come with a brawler and finish it in no time. I guess I have stopped playing for a time when I was fed up with that state. I guess the same happened with those, who played regular pvp but wasnt a slayer main during the lv65 level increase patch, when slayer became disgustingly op for 3-5 months and dominated every pvp related content.

[@boogieboo5085]

This is something that always bother me as well. The common response I'd get was "Look up the dungeon run on KZbin and learn the fights", but if you do that you rob yourself of the experience of going through content for the first time. When the community demands you ruin your own experience for the sake of thier convince, it's time to move on.

[@nekomikumata]

@@Fantome001 Yeah the awakening quests are hardcore for solo players. You NEED a party but NOBODY will party with you, not even your own guild, because it's a waste of time as they could be running dungeons, making gold, or even fishing. It's one of the loneliest feelings you could feel in a game. I was lucky enough as a priest to find some people nearby to help me, though I ended up quitting later because the game's population went on a downward spiral and I came back to see Velika and even highwatch completely empty and it was just so disheartening.

[@SomeGuyStoleMyHandle]

In Warframe the most common reason among all my friends that have tried and quit Warframe was "I finished the tutorial and I don't know where to go or what gets me what thing" if people have to have a wiki open to understand a large amount of information they should quit. Even after 7,000 hours of Warframe while I still enjoy it it makes perfect sense why people would finish the opening and just quit they should not have to ask other people or the wiki for so much when the game should explain their own systems.

[@rushslime1718]

But this is a problem with most modern MMOs, GuildWars2, FF, WoW... most games even have commands in the game that open specific pages on the wiki. I hate to say it, but this doesn't look like its going to be fixed as MMOs aren't necessarily based on community and player interaction.

[@SomeGuyStoleMyHandle]

@@rushslime1718 yea like you said it is a problem one that doesn't need to happen. Its the fault of the devolpers for making the experience crappy. It's also ours tho for being complacent and not calling out bullsht the second it happens. It's an annoying unnecessary issue that hopefully gets listened to.

[@cyberpunk4560]

Follow the sound of the winds"

[@MrFlox888]

I find it sad that they added in-game tutorials in the Codex, but that means they're entirely optional since that's a boring menu you might not bother browsing. I haven't tried them myself because by the time they were implemented I was already knowledgeable enough in the game to not need them, but I doubt they go through every miniscule thing because the game just has so many systems. The feature creep in WF is insane!

[@rushslime1718]

@@MrFlox888 Didn't DE admit that most players take a look at the modding system and quit?

[@jimjones9631]

For me a lot of the quit moments come from developer actions. Like with WoW. The idea of rng upgrade systems like with sockets and things like conduits and conduit energy ruined the favorite thing about my class: priest. I loved being able to dps as shadow or switch to healing and go for a healer playstyle a bit then switch back but when a developer adds a system that makes me jump through hoops then double down on that poor decision making and say they don't see an issue with it. Instant quit moment. You stop respecting my time, i won't give you mine anymore.

[@kyotheman69]

my issue we hadn't had a good expansion for long time, Legion was decent, but BFA and SL were clearly weren't tested by people that think these expansions are "fun" mostly boring and tedium I'm tried of being fooled, i played wow since 2004, but people that actually care have left long ago, I"m done with this game

[@jimjones9631]

@UC7CpTyNdGJvMpv7zf0hUORg oh definitely. I think around then is when the feeling started setting in that there was a lack of passion in the game design

[@Zenith118]

Yeah domination sockets are honestly the worst system I've ever seen come out of a supposedly AAA product.

[@etherraichu]

I was fine with the sockets part, I got used to that in Diablo 2. But then came the inscriptions and then... Yeah. I was lucky in a way, since I was a Warlock. I never had to worry about switching things around (except for pvp of course).

[@TanisC]

Well said!💯

[@CorruptionAura]

The moment games lose me is the moment they put a time gate in the game, I want to play a game until I'm done, once they say you must come back every day or every week or fall behind the game is a game that actively wants me to quit

[@Ellthom]

I quit WoW back in January and havent had the will to return to the genre of MMO's since, after 16 years the genre is on a long hiatus for me. What I am playing is a lot of RPG like Pathfinder, Solesta and soon Baldur's Gate 3. As well as playing a lot of the old RPG hybrid classics too. Since quitting the MMO genre I have found more time for the games I love and completed them. Basically saying my quit moment in other games was being too heavily invested in a MMO. :)

[@EmilyKveldulv]

I quit WoW when the stuff came out about their workplace culture. Shadowlands sucked, my friends werent playing classic with me, and i just didnt wanna support such a shitty company. I spent my whole life playing wow. 13 of my 20 years. I felt betrayed and cheated knowing people like me are discriminated against in their environment, and how little the company itself cared about the game i loved. I always held them on a pedestal as a great company that makes great games, and honestly this whole situation just broke that illusion. It was the massive straw among other smaller straws that broke the camel's back, really. Theyre just another corp.

[@Lowaver]

I quit normal WoW. Now I just play private servers because they are a lot more fun. But there are some bad ones too

[@raquetdude]

Would recommend GW2 as it’s designed to allow players to take breaks from the game n it’s systems

[@Lowaver]

@@EviLLivEClan I quit 2 months after the xpac. Idk about op though.

[@Ellthom]

@@EviLLivEClan I quit back in January. If I was a sheep I would have ran off to play FFXIV. I just quit the MMO genre altogether. I don't have the time for another MMO after 16 years playing WoW.

[@Mecceldorf]

That thing about coming back to a game I left and realizing I have no idea what’s going on certainly rings true for me. What I find myself doing is starting a new save from scratch for reattunement or a sort of mid-life crisis thing to try something differently, and then realizing where I came from and being struck with the blow that I’ve put in double the playtime for half the progress.

[@paratrooper508]

yeah this is huge for me. some games need to do a better job of reminding players what they were in the middle of

[@Techn0Fox]

WoW really does feel like everyone's definite "I quit" game now, given how far Blizzard has fallen with their community. I think Aion was one of my big quit moments when I had found out my account was hacked, and NCSoft support took nearly 3 months trying to identify me as the original account owner. My interest in the game had already been slipping with how grindy I felt the end-game became, but realizing how horrible the bot problem was at the time made me leave entirely. It's a shame because I had really loved the game world during beta and the initial months of launch.

[@filipevasconcelos4409]

Aion also lost me when i logged in a few months ago. I noticed the focus on transformations for optimal dps and playing, and when i saw that this system was mainly what made the cash shop horrendous, i quit, despite my love for this game

[@thender31]

Leaving Aion is nothing but healthy and wise

[@Techn0Fox]

@CatandBonez Lol damn dude. Keep on being you.

[@Koibito247]

wow I forgot about Aion. I have fond memories very early on but I don't' think I could recommend it to anyone.

[@richardpankow4714]

Modern Aion not only introduced power mechanics intended to encourage cash shop interaction, but also revamped already existing mechanics *cough* stigmas *cough* into p2w mechanics. I'm a little disappointed that ncsoft didn't make aion classic sub only with no cash shop because i think alot of people hopping onto classic were hoping to flee the p2w.

[@Fraggr92]

Another important aspect when getting players to keep playing your game is culling your playerbase. Negative interactions with other players can do massive damage to your game's community, since finding other people to play with and becoming part of a community are big reasons why people play MMOs. If for example a new player joins an MMO and their first real interaction with other players gets them yelled at for not knowing what they're doing then that right there is also a big "quit moment". That player is going to think "Wow, these people suck. The game is good but it's not worth having to deal with these assholes. I don't want to be in a community with people like this." and then they are going to leave. World of Warcraft is an example of a game that has massive problems with this, especially the classic versions. Because the game is so old, nobody has the patience to wait for people to learn the game through experience. New players are expected to research the game by reading guides and watching youtube videos so that by the time they actually partake in group content they already know exactly what to do as if they had played the game for the last 15 years. And if they don't, then other players will make them feel as if they are a burden and a hindrance to the group. That expectation removes pretty much all the exploration and discovery aspects from the game, which can be devastating to a new player's enjoyment of the game. Players who act like this need to be actively culled from your playerbase, because the reality is that if they aren't then THEY will cull new players from the playerbase through their behaviour. And that's one way to end up with a stagnating or shrinking playerbase. Even a great game can only support a hostile or abusive playerbase for so long. Eventually the hassle of dealing with abusive players becomes enough of a deterrent to turn away even the more dedicated players, and then you're left with a community that's made up of people who thrive in toxic and abusive environments, and that's not something that you as a developer should want for your game for obvious reasons. Basically if a group of people are actively doing damage to your game and your community then you as a developer _can not_ afford to be afraid to get rid of them. Regardless of what you do, your actions and the things that you allow in your game determines the kind of community that your game has. It's imperitive that you moderate your game and turn away people who have a negative impact on your community, or your game will suffer.

[@aliasunknown4879]

I got yell at for not knowing how to be a healer class in WoW after no instructions were given. It was funny because I was a DPS class with minor healer abilities.

[@GenericUserName443]

Monster hunter world: me and a random party had just fought some massive monster that took so much effort and time to finish but eventually we brought it down. I was a little further away so I arrived after the others collected their materials (no problem), when I was going to collect mine an asshole kept attacking my character which while it did no damage, it still interrupted the looting (channeling effect so can´t make it faster). And since the lobby closes automatically after a very short time so you barely have time get your stuff even if you are close, I ended up getting nothing... Uninstalled the game and started strongly rescenting CAPCOM, refusing to touch anything from them anymore.

[@VideoGameStarChannelSupreme]

Your second paragraph describes getting a job perfectly :P Get your online courses, work for free where no one is losing money for your mistakes and then once you have those 5+ years of experience then you can pester the HR managers to give you an interview (if you get past the bot screening your resume and info) Aside, well said, I'd probably just mute the players but they may as well be disruptive by not doing anything or working against their team.

[@comaiscool]

My main turn off is most FOMO traps and my choices being "the worst ones" for the things I'm playing for and towards in [X] game. I'd rather have an experience that I can reliably come back to and know not only that my time isn't being wasted because the way that I want to play isn't optimal and know that I didn't miss out on a ton of activities simply cause I took a break or that life got in the way.

[@BigHalfSteps]

Yeah I hate FOMO. One big reason why I quit Genshin Impact after couple of months. Because if you don't pull the new character -> FOMO. And you never know when a rerun might happen, or if it even happens. Toppled with the fact that soft pity is 70 and even then after 70 summons you get one random 5*, not the banner character. Toppled with the fact that summon currency is so rarely given, they even can't give a one summon's worth of currency on a anniversary event per day. Toppled with the fact that most characters' potential is hidden behind dupes (5 I think) so you need to pull duplicates to make them stronger - and sometimes the gameplay of some characters change drastically after fully unlocking.

[@Nawrly17]

AKA battle passes/season passes

[@thehallmonitor4515]

100% check out guildwars 2. It has horizontal progression (I logged for 3 years and my character didn't get weaker) and a lot of the strongest stuff is account bound meaning if a profession isn't fun to play anymore you just trade geat to another character.

[@Daniel-wz3yv]

@@BigHalfSteps This wasn't the reason why i quit Genshin after a few months but you're 100% right, i got Venti twice when the game first came out, didnt want the dupe but the point is that i got enough currency to pull a 5 star twice without spending a single buck on release and now if you don't spend lots of money you have to pick and choose which 5 star you go for and even then you might get unlucky and pull a dupe, and let's not forget how many months people had to wait for Venti if they didn't get him on release or like me who didn't get Zhongli because he wasn't that good then they buffed him and i couldn't get him lmao.

[@comaiscool]

@@thehallmonitor4515 I can't personally get behind GW2 having been a fan of how the original Guild Wars played and was designed the shift in gameplay was just something I couldn't get behind on top of other monetization aspects implemented in 2 but thanks for the recommendation

[@Marconius6]

I think you missed one important quit moment: being forced to wait. Especially an issue in F2P games, where a lot of them have some kind of time gating mechanic, usually related to crafting or building. So I might spend my time one day grinding resources for a thing, finally done, I go to actually craft it... and the game tells me I have to wait for 4 days. On the one hand, giving the player a good place to stop playing is a good thing; but telling the player "hey, you basically can't keep playing for 4 days now" might cause them to close the game and then just, never remember to come back... And sure, you could just go do something else, work on some other thing; but for a more casual player, they might have just one goal in mind at a time, just one thing they want to accomplish. So getting that interrupted for days, especially right near the end, might just cause them to lose interest.

[@mgvikings1484]

yeah, and i pray for those games to die and the developers lose their jobs for good. or have to wait say, 4 years, to have a new job.

[@kambor1578]

Don't forget the real kicker with most of those systems: you can pay real money to not wait and to do the thing/craft the item immediately. It's part of the bigger umbrella of features that punish players for not spending more money, and also makes a lot of players drop/avoid the game as soon as they learn that the game has one of those features purely out of principle and/or spite.

[@NovaNyst]

@@kambor1578 cough cough warframe

[@peatral]

@@NovaNyst Warframe is not a good example. Yes, crafting warframes takes three days and you can skip the wait with platinum which you can buy for real money. Up until this point everything seems to match. Until you realize that you can trade platinum with other players. A friend of mine is the richest mf I have ever seen in the warframe community and he didn't spend a single dime. If you are willing to treat trading just as another game mechanic to speed up your progress (which it is) you won't have any problems. But I generally agree that games where you have to wait an eternity to get things done and can pay money directly or with a money exclusive currency (that can't be traded like in warframe) to speed things up are an absolute pain in the arse, like every game that is pay to win/pay to play (pay to play meaning pay to make progress).

[@NovaNyst]

@@peatral ok I'll go spend 2 weeks farming the half percent mod to sell so I can craft my 3 day Warframe faster

[@noclevername9495]

I've had the "I quit" moment multiple times with Warframe. They've added so many things that mean so little to the story and the fact the grind to get those things is ridiculous that I pretty much drew the final straw once I completed Second Dream. The moment a game makes you dread opening the app instead of making you feel excited you know something is wrong.

[@AndrewColomy]

For me, Warframe is largely about finding ways to circimvent or alleviate large amounts of grind by finding the quickest and most effective ways to do things.

[@Boosttackle]

Used to love this game but overall for how vast and wide it looked at first, just seemed so shallow to me when I actually stepped in. All my friends told me that I need to get my mastery up, but there was no clear goal to work towards, no end game, got to mastery 10 and quit when I had that epiphany.

[@BrieoRobino]

I want to like Warframe. I love the frame system and how unique some of them are as well as movement and the fact that you can get almost everything without paying money. The main reason I quit was because of mission variety. Either there wasn't enough or I played so much. The grind was just too much when I could be playing something else.

[@FlameSoulis]

Grandmaster here. I haven't come back to Warframe due to too many things going on and, due to being recognized as an experienced player, I don't really get informed on what to do or what my options are. Too much now relies on systems that are badly explained or seem to have a heavy impact when in actuality, it doens't.

[@fat4eyes]

My Warframe quit moment was when I got to the stage where I had to farm open world mats for progress. The open world sucks and even more so without an archwing. I haven't touched Warframe for 3 years now.

[@softlyspoken4503]

Late to this, but I think one big quit moment is the feeling of losing process. I remember playing a looter shooter, building up my equipment, getting to a build I was happy with and then levelling up, having everything match level with me and, as a result, my build was now useless. After a while, rebuilding my character every time I reached a level up just started feeling like a chore. I was not getting more powerful, the environment was matching me after all. If anything, I was getting weaker because, every time I leveld up, all the rare gear I used before turned useless and I had to replace it with more common but level appropriate new stuff

[@Supaawesomeification]

I’m coming up on my quit moment with warframe. I love the game dearly. I don’t want to stop playing but I’ve recently (almost) finished my collection grind. Hit MR Legendary 1 last weekend and the only weapons left to get are awful grinds, vaulted, or locked behind login rewards/event exclusivity. I’m on the edge of completing the monumental goal I set for myself and this isn’t really the game’s fault. Its just run it’s course. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with a game getting completed. I’m done with it (for now in warframe’s case) and I can move on. There’s no bad taste in my mouth, I don’t feel the need to demand more content, I’m just done with it and now I can play other games that I’ll enjoy. And that’s ok

[@mariberri6512]

That's a really good take. I'm also a completionist gamer with Warframe and sitting on LR1 with nearly everything in the game. I still like the game, but my playtime has dropped off significantly at this point with only a few things left to get. I primarily only get on now to play with my friends who are newer and that's what's been keeping me in the game. It's nice to just relax and run around with them while they work on whatever quest or item they're currently hunting, but without that I'd probably be taking a hiatus to wait for new stuff.

[@xxOnigiri99]

I get this one. Which is why I decided I would play without collecting everything or rushing to become super strong and just focus on cool stuff here and there I like collecting too but I feel no need to have everything yet as I got most weapons I found interesting and think some other aspects of the game can wait. Recently I started hunting liches so that's cool I always take breaks from Warframe tho because eventually I run out of space for stuff or get bored of grinding endlessly and not getting what I want

[@Vaikisspwnz]

vaulted is pretty fun u farm plat and buy which is something im in the same ship with event exclusives that i can't get anymore and new released stuff that came out since i took my last break

[@thewhatwhat12333]

im at mr23 how the fk do you guys keep grinding to legendary 1 damn

[@elk3407]

Honestly, at that point just do other stuff until the new war.

[@rahn45]

My quit moment in WoW was in early Cata. Everything I liked about playing WoW had been stripped down at that point and the focus was only about raiding, and I hated raiding. Heck it was even the classic "You're getting skipped over for loot because my friend wants it" moment which was the last straw (which was one of the reason why I avoided raiding for so many years). WoW as far as I can tell just kept the game completely about raiding, so there has never been anything for me to ever come back to. I just keep track of the drama like keeping track of an old friend who let their life completely fall apart, wishing for better days, hoping they'll turn their life around.

[@PeterSedesse]

LFR kinda solved this problem, but yeah they took way too long to implement it. I did LFR a few times each patch, just to see the new content, but not to grind for gear. It really allowed you to quest, craft, or just do what you wanted, but at the same time get rid of that feeling that ' I am paying so the devs can create raids that I won't see'. The game was still top heavy, but LFR at least let you see the conclusions of the storyline.

[@janotse]

I lasted til Pandaria release, I think I played that expansion for a total of 5 minutes.

[@jhoughjr1]

random finder killed the game by killing its social aspect.

[@PeterSedesse]

@@jhoughjr1 yeah, standing in town spamming ' looking for tank' for three hours every night was great fun and great social interaction. So many people were actually doing content in WOTLK rather than just spamming chat like they were in BC. WOW died mainly because of feature creap in Cataclysm, they spent way too much time revamping 1-60 so there was very little endgame content. WOTLK, with LFG, was the height of WOW.

[@jumanjijoe9198]

@@PeterSedesse Having to talk to people and form groups socially will always be better than just clicking "find group" in a automated party finder menu. It's a online game, not a single player one tbh.

[@Tall_Order]

Reaching around level 20 in the average Asian MMO (such as DOMO) is my quit moment. That's when I realize the rest of the game is the same kill 20 enemies at spawn camp, then go to next spawn camp, then the next, then the next. And before anyone says "you stayed till level 20?", most Asian MMO have fast leveling because nothing matters.

[@Vezenta]

The last of those I played ~2014. They gave a 24 hr auto combat scroll after a certain level, I used it before bed and woke up maxed level, thinking "what even is this game".

[@do3807]

"Because nothing matters." 😂💀

[@TurtleFlowerboi]

Yeah, cask was usually everyone's first time really needing to have a full team and it's exciting being able to get that to happen. But there are literally no game changes after that and the side quests do not provide anywhere near enough story to justify even dealing with lower level mobs in dungeons unless you were a solo player , which to me at least , the solo experience loses everything that makes Domo worth while. Still one of my favourite class system out of most games.

[@_Snarky]

I actually want quests that require me to kill enemies in areas to be like 50+ because spending 5min killing 5-10 mobs then running back to quest giver for 10min makes me feel like i wasted my time. I hate fetch quests, they are just there to consume time.

[@jarurn_7326]

@@_Snarky try Black Desert Online. you'll be killing hundreds even thousands of mobs in a single quest, but most of that quest are guild related

[@littleshoes3293]

The most recent quit moment for me was Sea of Thieves, I had been getting on quite well in it, i had 200 hrs and i had been dealing with all the gankers rather well but honestly the reason i quit was just session length, to feel like you get ANYTHING done you HAVE to play at least a minimum of 2 hrs and it just started to feel like a job.

[@marv1nperator]

I feel that. Once made really great progress and had quite a fun time duo slooping with a friend, until we realised it's been 5 hours and then the progress didn't even seem so much anymore. That game just demands soooo much time. What can you even do in 30-60 minutes?!

[@NazzyDragon]

All they have to do to fix a lot of that pressure is to multiply loot value by 10 then divide loot drops by 10 lol. Seriously, if our loot turn ins were way shorter, it would cut out a TON of time needed to play. Healthy for many reasons too, mostly server lag and not taking 30min+ to turn in..

[@Tymbee]

I hate that they added a season pass. I mean they've always had some sporadic time limited stuff, like from events, but now there's just this omnipresent sense of FOMO just because I want to take a break from the game.

[@GayCherryJuice]

Not just that, but the fact that some of us aren't great at PVP in the game. I have started sessions with friends and just done chill fishing and then a gallion full of reaper pros pull up and murder us without warning, gaining nothing of value.

[@Izbiski_]

I found as a player, the frequency and the severity of balance patches can easily be quit moments

[@aries4378]

Which is why I quit ESO.

[@stephenmisener1659]

Exactly why I quit overwatch awhile back, and recently apex legends.

[@josephteller9715]

Definitely true. It got so in many games I have to have at least 3 or more characters that I am advancing at the same time (though usually a bit behind my main), so that I can switch main character when the next patch/expansion comes out and nerfs my main or makes it unplayable in some way because it has changed too much from its concept or is made its options too few or too cookie-cutter in how others expect it to be played.

[@LordOOTFD]

My I quit moment with EVE online was when I realized the content I wanted to play next would take me almost a year of playing 6+ hours a day to reach. Nothing wrong with the game itself, I just decided that I wanted to spend that time on other games and hobbies. I still think it's a great game, but I just can't invest the time it requires.

[@skullaveraz]

I quit Eve 2 months in. I spent more time reading about the mechanics than playing. After losing half a bil worth of loot exploring I quit. Making mistakes have unforgiving costs and I can only imagine how much time I need to invest in getting up to par

[@joewelch4933]

My quit moment for EVE was when my little high/mild low sec corp had war declared on it by a much larger corp for no reason other than they wanted to grief us. Literally they would station camp in high sec every day, every hour of the day, with far better ships and more people than my corp could bring. I have NO idea what was in it for them other than wasting our and their time and their isk.

[@LevitatingCups]

Depends on your personality, there are ways you can earn isk super-easy in eve, just a 2 week long "heist" with a few friends can net you easily up to a 100billion... its a shark eat shark world in there.

[@LordOOTFD]

@@LevitatingCups I don't think that kind of ISK was easily available back when I was playing or if it was I wasn't aware of it, but then again there has also probably been inflation since then as well so I'm probably way out of date.

[@jamiestwrt]

@@joewelch4933 lol

[@Torryinabox]

That was a great watch, subbed! I think one of the biggest quit moments for me is when the game or devs go out of their way to screw over long time dedicated fans or content creators. It's certainly what got me to quit Warframe after several years of non-stop grinding.

[@WholesomeJenn]

My quit moment in the most recent game I was playing (FiveM GTA RP) was when I spent over a month playing the game almost continuously, and non-stop. I loved every second of it. However, my IRL friendships went ignored, my job performance started slipping, my family was trying to get in touch with me about other family members having health issues that I was ignoring, and I was gaining a lot of weight. Even though I was still addicted, was having loads of fun, and had no real quit moments... I had to force myself to stop. My quit moment was realizing that my life was revolving around something that is ultimately going to end one day with nothing to show for it. I was focusing on the wrong thing. My boyfriend showed this to me when he was playing as well, and decided to leave at the same time that I did. That itch to play is one of the most difficult things to ignore, but it's essential when you know it's ruining your life. It's definitely not like substance abuse when you feel a physical need for it, but in comparison to when I quit smoking, it comes pretty close.

[@mrpizzacat8273]

I quit when the goal isn’t worth the effort or if the grind is painful, if the goal is worth it I don’t mind the grind being tedious but if both the carrot and the stick are bad what’s the point.

[@gobokoboobo4620]

In a game like Warframe, I'd rather grind one single mission for several hours in one sitting (if the reward is worth the time, which unfortunately Warframe don't have scaling reward) than repeating the same mission several times over and over. I really dislike having to quit back to the lobby or menu and have to restart the queue again and again. It's like a buffer on KZbin videos. It's not a smooth experience.

[@mrpizzacat8273]

@@gobokoboobo4620 for me items aren’t about the stats, at least not fully. It’s about how cool they are/ make me look or how they change the game (allowing me to do new things or access new content). I’m fine getting items just for stats but if it gets to the point of grinding 20 hours to get a +5 to strength just to get stronger I stop caring.

[@thetuerk]

For me Destiny 2 is like that. Everything just feels not worth doing. But at one point I got introduced to a clan with active and chatty people. You had the nolife players and the parents with kids. At that point, when I see a ping on discord for a raid, I team up even if I don't get any rewards. Honestly, the game can be utter dogshit, but you'll keep coming back if you're having a good time. It's a bit of a chicken and the egg problem 😅

[@Qris_7711]

My quit moment: When Runescape told me I have to be a member in order to make arrows.

[@nicolinrucker5181]

Runescape no longer needs you to be a member in order to make arrows, OSRS still does though.

[@Qris_7711]

@@nicolinrucker5181 Naturally I meant OSRS. I will give RuneScape a shot then :-)

[@justinwhite2725]

6:28 compare opening the skill tree in Poe to the sphere grid in final fantasy X The sphere grid started you out incredibly zoomed in and you had a nice tutorial on buying nodes and moving. You only saw a very small amount until you figure out how to zoom out (which they don't tell you). This keeps you from having that instantly overwhelmed feeling until you've had a chance to Learn the basics.

[@runthemeows1197]

Eeeh poe has a huge skilltree, but its stupid simple. Its literally a connect the dots to lifenodes, damagenodes for your choice of playstyle and skills, and some keynodes for change of mechanics. PoE’s biggest issue has never been the skilltree. Its the whole needing 5 external third party programs and websites to get the QoL to a reasonable point. Anyone finding the PoE skilltree overwhelming opened the meny but didnt look at a single piece of info in it.

[@LordRedland]

​@@runthemeows1197 Using the skill tree in PoE is like learning a language. You and I know exactly what it does because we've used it for a long time, but for new players it can be very overwhelming when you are presented with that many apparent choices and no context to understand them. The skill tree has been the number one reason why my friends quit or never even started the game after taking one look at the spiderweb of skill nodes. True, the skill tree is much simpler than it appears once you get to know it, but there may be a problem with the presentation if it is literally driving away players before they ever get to use it. The next patch is supposed to overhaul the skill tree. Hopefully that helps ease in the new players.

[@DaimonTrilogy]

@@LordRedland Then your friends are not made for this type of game in the first place. I have seen complex system which seemed simple at first glance and lost interest immediatly. I seek for complex system in all games. The difference is: Do you want to keep a casual playerbase (and that seems to be the majority) or do you want to have a more niche game. If you think you can target everybody, you have lost already. I can barely play any AAA title without getting bored within 5h and I have some very niche games which I have played for hundreds of hours.

[@LordRedland]

@@DaimonTrilogy I am glad that you enjoy complex systems that look befittingly complex. However, the complex presentation of information is not necessarily required to have a good system. Other games have copied PoE's skill tree. Superficially they are the same, but with all the complexity and none of the versatility. I am aware that GGG's content and business strategy caters heavily to hardcore players that return every season. Most of the company's earnings come from that small percentage of players that purchase cosmetic micro transactions. It is working out well for them and I expect they will continue to do so. The trouble with serving the minority of players is that you end up with an entrenched elitist community that is actively hostile toward new players. A new player cannot determine if they are "made" for a game if they never get far enough to really experience all it has to offer.

[@DaimonTrilogy]

@@LordRedland New players join often through the influence of veterans playing the game, not through their "own choice". (A very good example would be diablo 2) I have influenced around 10 people to play poe for atleast 5 hours each because of the impact this picture of the skill tree had on me and in every single instance I have shown them the awesome skilltree. Also it is those exact veterans who buy those vanity features (I myself have bought those for over 100€), as you mentioned. It is a shame, that people have the belief, that every game has to please the majority of players and dumping down the experience for players, who are not new to the genre. Another example would be the tutorial in Warframe. The only reason I pushed myself through that slowburn was because I wanted to play it with a friend. It was very monotone and boring and was reliefed as soon as I got access to the ship. So no, I absolutly have to disagree with many points made in this video, because this topic is heavily subjective, especially when the mentioned games are more successful than many others (looking at the 23 million playerbase of FF14)

[@Iruparazzo]

My quit moment wasn't so much to do with the game (tho having done everything in game 10x over already was part of it) it was realizing that the guild had become an on-call full-time job that didn't pay me, I paid it. Friends & guild members angry at me for not being available on vent/skype for raids 24/7, literally scheduling dungeon raids that couldn't be completed if someone bailed out and they took 3+ hours to complete on a good day. I just finally got sick of people on vent talking over the music/videos I was watching because there was literally nothing left to even grind so I just stand in town halfheartedly selling overpriced cash shop items. All MMOs end up the same, only the early game areas are any fun (because they tend to have had better/longer development)

[@SemperFi4evr]

Very, Very true!

[@supertop764]

youre playing with the wrong people

[@flix1179]

i agree with all, end-game zones casually seens sucks and unfun, but i think u need play with the right ppl

[@flix1179]

i see myself as a `hard core` casual player (lol), I play on my own time and doing what I want when I want, I hate getting into guild calls to do rotations or anything mandatory weekly, however, I like to extract the the maximum of my character and the maximum of the build, and I always read or see something to improve, I like to play better, but without feeling forced

[@Tymbee]

Which game was this, if you don't mind me asking?

[@aneophyte1199]

I use to play Everquest a lot. What I found as a quit moment was when you run into a wall in game play, especially in leveling your character. For example, you are playing in area A, you can level your character to level 14 in area A before you stop getting experience from killing monsters, so you decide to go into the next area, but you need to be level 16 to survive in the next area. You can't advance to level 16 in the first area and you die in the next area if you are not level 16. This occurs several times in the game, you get level capped at a level lower than what you need to go to the next area. The only way to get around the wall was to play in groups. You need to form a party to overcome the stronger monsters, but some people find it hard to find and coordinate parties. Some like to play solo like myself. Star Wars Galaxy was another problem. It was economics of the game. It was mostly player based. In order to make money, you need to sell stuff to other players. It was easier for other players to go get the stuff themselves than to buy it from you. In some cases the other players didn't have any money, because they needed to sell their stuff to still other players. And if you were some kind of craftsman, you had to advance to a very high level before you were able to build anything any other player wanted to buy. And you needed a lot of money to get to a higher level. Also training to get to a higher level requires you to be trained by a player at a higher level who can't get there without money which you can't get because no-one wants to buy low level stuff. The only way to make money at low level is to complete bounties. So the in-game economics stunk.

[@Cybeldar]

The quit moment that sticks with me was in City of Heroes. Dying caused you to get level debt you had to work off in order to continue leveling. One Saturday night I was grinding on my main just for fun when a world boss popped up. It was a giant squid and 10 of us jumped in and we died repeatedly until we finally killed it. When we were done I had so much xp debt I never logged onto that character again. It turned all that fun into a negative .

[@lionheart4109]

That must be one of the worst gameplay ideas I ever heard. What the devs had in mind?

[@CopperRavenProductions]

The squid was Luna but hold on hold on. The debt was capped it was never infinite. It really didnt put you in debt that far. Also it was very easy to get out of it fast. Not to mention easy techniques to help lvl fast even super fast. The game is back to has been about 2 years now. One thing it jas to this day not a single game has come close. Is the build customization. You could have the same exact class but completely different io sets. Every build was infinitly different from everyone else.

[@nebufabu]

@@CopperRavenProductions It depends. Early on debt was brutal, and even though you indeed couldn't have more than 1 level worth of debt it just felt bad and seriously slowed you down, especially as you approached the level cap. Not wishing to play because you knew how slow the progress is going to be was quite real. Then, the new XP curve happened (which reduced XP required across the board) and later the Day Jobs system, which added, among other things, an equivalent of WoW rest XP and that rest XP also slowly cancelled any debt character had. Between those two, debt was still a deterrent, but I never felt like shelving an alt over having too much.

[@cattysplat]

@@lionheart4109 It was a standard feature of RPGs in the 90s and early 2000s. Diablo 2 you lose XP, can delevel and drop all your gold, feel like playing the remaster yet?

[@DarkFireTim]

Death penalties are hard to balance. They need to be there or death isn't much of a consequence and stops being something to avoid but if its to much then like you said people die and don't come back.

[@Ara_Arasaka]

I doubt you’ll get this but there’s another quit moment by a subset: The anxiety quitters People who are anxious like myself will often quit games before they are over even though we love the experience BECAUSE it’s about to end. We then lose all connection and months down the line when we come back to play it, we have the “disconnect” you mentioned. The strange feeling of loss. And then start over. And the. Repeat it. And over. And over. It’s a really bizarre thing I’m sure. But it’s one of the most raw things i can express becaus you nailed that… disconnect I have. Anxiety sucks…

[@Iffy50]

What a great video! I've had 100's of quit moments (I'm 49). I never gave it much though from the perspective of the game designers, but it's a critical part.

[@jasonbourne4865]

Usually, when I find an MMO that I enjoy, I play it quite intensively for a few weeks until I suddenly lose interest completely. Happens more or less over night. Not sure why that is, but I suspect that my brain is simply oversaturated with the MMO experience.

[@DyingCr0w]

Yup. I compare MMO to music, it's just the same thing done over, and over, and over. Maybe it's not a good comparison, dunno, But old stuff, i can go and listen to, sates the nostalgia. MMO, go kill mobs to complete quests to get XP. How innovating?

[@OO-ct4hq]

I feel the same way and it seems really weird because I don't have any specific thought process about the games I played such as "I don't like grinding" or "I don't like p2w". It's more like I'm hypnotized by them intensely for a month and then drop it all of a sudden. Maybe it's just a runaway place for me.

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

I have ADD, and have a pretty similar experience- I hyperfixate on a game for a week to a month, and then try another game that catches my interest and I just don't return to the first game. Nothing particularly negative, I just stop playing.

[@Skedder]

@@YourCrazyDolphin Exactly the same here. I really would love to know why i just stop playing a game after being so fixated on in. It has to do with ADD but idk why it happens

[@babstra55]

you probably get the best part of it. there's never anything good after the first 30 levels and beginner maps. the rest always becomes grindy, the maps are less polished and the 'story' becomes an excuse to introduce more grinding or a pointless new tier of gear. I envy you because I hang in there for years and it's never worth it. all the wonder is in the first 30 levels.

[@hasanahmed9102]

I loved Warframe. Played it for HOURS on end on a shitty laptop with everything set to low. It was just a ton of fun and there wasn't a million mods to farm, a billion hours to wait for things to finish. Yeah it was still flawed, it had no story, but it was fun. The new quest additions were fun and my time playing during the beta set me up to not really need to farm a lot for the major story quests. But after that it was a downhill slope. Yes, the quests were very well made, combat got even better, I could run it on ultra on 1440p with my new computer but after leaving it for a year and coming back to a new story addition I finally learned why people leave it. I had to farm and make new things which required tons of backtracking, waiting, grinding. I am no longer a student with a lot of free time. I have a job and am still studying, if a game asks me to spend 100 more hours on grind I don't want to do just to get 1 more hour of story... yeah I'd rather just play something that's fun NOW and not "Soon".

[@noobymaniac]

Genshin Impact did that for me. Had a ton of fun exploring the world and experiencing the story. Then it got to the point where I had to grind "dungeons" and bosses just to keep up with the world level and continue to progress in said story. Absolutely killed what was a great game for me.

[@Tyrian3k]

As someone who started playing Warframe, I can definitely agree. More and more systems added to the game, piling up into a huge "trash" heap, often to not be looked at again for years upon years. Difficulty is either nonexistant or instadeath. Everything you do in the game is to grind for the next item you want to acquire or to rank it up to boost your mastery rank. Just like you, I started on a shitty laptop, although in closed beta, that shitty laptop still easily ran the game in 1080p 60 fps, eventually going further and further down in performance as things progressed. Earth was one of the worst instances of performance drops thanks to the foliage and water everywhere, now leaving me playing at 10-15 fps instead at 720p while the devs literally assured the players that they "care about your toaster".

[@pedrosantos2065]

I played for years on a potato laptop too. I started when harrow was the new shiny Warframe. But after the plains of eidolon update, performance just went downhill, and by the time railjack came around, I was taking 2 to 3 minutes loading into normal missions that used to be ready in seconds. It became to bad that when I opened a relic with randoms, it wouldnt let me choose the reward. That potato laptop is still the only one I have so no Warframe anytime soon. Its a shame really. Grindy as it was it was still fun to go back to

[@SineFineInanis]

@@pedrosantos2065 Sounds like a ping issue

[@pedrosantos2065]

@@SineFineInanis Probably was. I face similar stuff in gta online from time to time. Lets be honest, it's impressive it even ran on a low end laptop at all. Credit where it's due, DE did a really good job there

[@SoullessAIMusic]

whenever I quit an MMO that actually gots my attention Its usually like a frog boiling. It starts slow with less time spent in the game and slowly grinding down to only doing the most bare daily mechanics and finding most else old. I soon look around for another game thinking I am going to play that along side my MMO or I just choose to do something else in general with my free time and eventually find myself never returning to the game and uninstalling. 2 games I done this with were The Secret World OG and The Elder Scrolls online as those were the only 2 games that really got my attention.

[@sweetgherkinz]

heyyyy that's like me

[@Nitidus]

Wanna try Guild Wars 2?

[@faylinnmystiquerose2224]

Ah yes, the original Secret World...I remember being super hyped for that game, it looked awesome, but then I got to play it from the beta and well...monsters? demons? nope, only in very small areas, zombies? absolutely everywhere, fuck that noise, I was already sick of zombies in games by that point and was super disappointed that the majority of enemies in the first zone were also zombies. I tried to stick to it, found the areas that didn't have zombies everywhere, hoped that maybe in the second zone the selection of enemies would be different, it wasn't, just more and more fucking zombies, I was done.

[@thefool8224]

@@Nitidus .i originally started playing with friends. but they all left after a month. i left shortly after heart of thorns and havent played since.

[@SoullessAIMusic]

@@faylinnmystiquerose2224 yeah first three zones all were on Solomon Island with a few Wendigo and forest monster here and there. It didnt really start introducing other world NPC's like giant scorpions and the like until you hit the 4th zone in egypt. Although. I always rushed through the starting zone once the charm wore off because it got old quick.

[@PongoXBongo]

One of the things that I love about Guild Wars or SWTOR, is that you have the option to start at the beginning or to jump in, pre-leveled to new content. And the tutorials (pre-Seering or starter planets) are so fun that I find myself constantly creating new characters just to experience them all over again. New content is being added sure, but you the player have the choice in how you want to experience it.

[@harmlesshawk1794]

Jumping in and having options between starting at new content or at the very beginning is great - when it's a choice. Coming back to Destiny 2 after years away is dreadful. The new player experience dumps you into the end game, wants you to tackle so many things without any explanation. It reeks of "new players are exclusively playing to raid with friends, let's hyper focus on that".

[@TarossBlackburn]

Other than interest gradually petering out, I've had 2 games with definite 'quit moments' that I can readily identify. In WoW: Playing every day just felt like playing to 'not fall behind' with everyone else, even though all actual content had been experienced, no additional side-goals could be set to achieve ( I had done every single available quest in every single available zone for the Loremaster achievement even ) and according to the last announcement at that time, it'd be almost another ~year~ before the next actual expansion would arrive. My will to play just broke. Destiny 2: The never ending slog to prevent FOMO. Gear that is only available during events, gear that is only available during a season. Items you spent weeks grinding for being phased out and actual content you purchased being removed from game. The moment that having to do everything you would need to do on a daily basis to not miss out on either story, gear or tokens for future gear took almost half the time of my actual day job PER DAY was enough to make me put down a game I otherwise REALLY enjoyed. This is perhaps the saddest type of 'quit moment'. I want to play. I'd love to play... I just can't bring myself to do it anymore.

[@DelbertStinkfester]

100% same experience with Destiny...Nothing pissed me off more then finally doing the thing to get a cool weapon only to have it nerfed into irrelevance and then added later as some sort of epic bonus activity that I have to play to get back a weapon that I already earned.

[@paulpeak1512]

I had similar thing with WoW and Destiny 2, and with most MMO's for that matter. It's the moment you realize you are on a treadmill that will never end and the engaging content just isn't enough to distract you from that fact for very long. Once the illusion is broken its over and there really isn't much of a way back from that. I quit WoW early in Cataclysm because I'd raided Icecrown, got the Legendary Axe for my Death Knight and immediately chucked it with the next expansion shortly after. I only came back for Legion to play a Demon Hunter and for the story and had no difficulty leaving when the expansion was done.

[@saycap]

I tried destiny as a new player recently and I don’t understand how it intends to rope in new players. Most of the story is gone so I can’t understand the context of the story (despite how good it looks). Not to mention the content getting removed periodically. There’s all the meaningless currencies and upgrade stations for stuff I don’t really care about, and it seems like the grind is to get some weapons with slightly different modifiers or unique effects that I can use in… more raids? The same pvp modes again and again? I don’t even have a ‘collect them all’ mindset since I can’t even get the previous ones. The gameplay is really fun but there’s no meaningful impact or progression in playing I found

[@bigbluebuttonman1137]

Honestly, all of that sounds like the same trash they stuff in mobile game, lol.

[@Omahdon]

"It gets really good after 100 hours" hahahaha no i've played this game before warframe and i'm not doing it again

[@Talinthis]

Funny thing is, that game never really changes much no matter how long you play. Most of the game modes is just waiting for a timer on the majority of the content.

[@greatmatt301]

I've never understood people saying that about Warframe, while for the story that is 100% true which is a shame the most enjoyable part of the game was running through the star chart, buy or finding blueprints farming for the resources, building it and using it. Depending on the kind of player you are once you hit the 100 hour mark the shine of gameplay has worn off and if grinding towards new items doesn't do it for you then the game can feel stale.

[@yellow125]

If it take 100 hours to become fun...yeah, no. Life is far too short and there are better things to do with my time.

[@riotangel4701]

Which outright admits the first 100 hours is BAD.

[@cattysplat]

The ironic thing is, these statements are actually true. Starting MMO games tend to be braindead simple but with too many systems that would overwhelm a new player. By the time you get to the end of that you have a strong mastery of the game and understand advanced system and are willing to work with others to progress your character in endgame content.

[@tomcads1604]

My last quit moment was quite a while ago, but I remember it very well, it was in Dead by Daylight. It was a "rebalancing" that made an already hard role just that much harder to play for anyone but the very best players in the world. They took out a skill I grinded for for dozens of hours and that was, to many players, the crutch that kept the game fair. I never logged back on after the first day they took it out

[@hythunza1811]

Honestly, this describes my general feelings about MMOs. I have 0 clue as to why my father still plays Destiny (or had even went to other MMOs in general), but ever since the game became needlessly complicated, I basically left it. I tried other MMOs, didn't get to have fun with them either. The whole hours on end of grinding on all the MMO stuff took me away from what I wanted to do for a living, and I've never really had any friends on the games that were worth keeping around. You have hours on end of free time + can stomach the endless grinding? Cool, that's like, only 1% of human beings out there that have this capability, and it's moreover the time factor if anything else.

[@scotwolf7826]

As an old destiny player all I can say is its like a drug not quite an addiction just something that feels soo good to play and dulls your brain with happy chemicals even tho it's a very dumbed down down right easy game to play so it's like being hooked up to a drugs machine sort of

[@maimonguy123]

@@scotwolf7826 as a former destiny player I gotta say watching this video showed me so many quit moments that I tried to overcome. I love destiny at it's core but it's borderline unplayable fore anymore. ~8,000 hours in the game, don't regret any of them.

[@hutki_shira]

MMOs are designed to addict it's unhealthy and a lot of the time it's a case of Stockholm syndrome that they played so long they feel that they have to play

[@3ASY355]

I just realize most of Josh videos are just educating future game devs lol.

[@Vezenta]

With how many devs have been acting lately, he is what they need most :p

[@knightslayer6161]

You should watch brozime. Guy does nothing but educate DE and they still struggle to deliver.

[@NerdlySquared]

I can’t think of a worse industry to start in rn for the vast vast majority of people trying. You’d probably make more at McDonalds and end up working less time for it with no debt. Pick anything else, save yourselves.

[@lightningonlycommentsonce5824]

Which is kinda weird since he's never worked on a game himself or in the gaming industry.

[@knightslayer6161]

@@lightningonlycommentsonce5824 it’s not weird. Experience players know exactly what they want and can put into words what a dev needs to succeed. The problem is who’s listening.

[@petereng7497]

Warframe: I quit when an update made it difficult for my computer to run the game smoothly and precisely. As a player who loved using sniper rifles, I couldn't keep playing. Maybe when I upgrade my memory I'll try again.

[@Ametisti]

Your Warframe gameplay actually includes one of my quit moments. I couldn't enjoy fighting stuff in most of the levels because everyone just spiral leapt their way to the end ignoring everything.

[@yahyamusseb]

Yeah that's why i go solo most of the time

[@ajbalancedbreakfast8368]

I mean this is why I didn't quit Warframe, because you can just turn on solo mode or party with people for any mission. Unlike most MMOs, you don't have to play or even interact with others if you don't want to.

[@HarmonyOfTheVoice]

@@ajbalancedbreakfast8368 at this point why should i play a timegated single player experience when i have way better single player games with higher production quality and compaling gameplay?

[@crypticcryptid4702]

@@HarmonyOfTheVoice I mean it is free. I know that it's really grindy and you can get a better experience from other games, but the only things you have to pay for in Warframe are certain accessories.

[@tamop]

Thats great, yeah? The only game I know where you can leap your way to the objective, capture it and leap your way to the exit... In less than a minute. For like 3-5 kilometers of a jorney through spaceships or some ground fortresses. That are not objectives.

[@RAFMnBgaming]

This video is so brilliantly applicable to so many types of media and software and probably like architecture and stuff. Everyone needs to be looking out for quit moments.

[@mayhem3649]

"overwhelming starting area with no direction" sounds like the old warframe i fell in love with

[@bennymountain1]

Yeah, this new hand holding shit is getting on my nerves.

[@stormdragon2529]

@@bennymountain1 so you think having a new player not knowing how to play or what to do or not undestanding the systems and mechanics right off the bat is better?

[@adamdahlin6025]

@@stormdragon2529 it can be. The first time I played Morrowind I got lost for weeks of my playtime. Got distracted off the main quest and ended up just doing stuff. That time was actually a lot of fun in an immersive sense. I wandered, learned the systems, and kind of became part of the world before I ever found that first guy I was supposed to meet in Balmora. Do I want all my games to be that open? No, but if the world is done well it can be a treat.

[@VellDeLL]

@@bennymountain1 Warframes intro is especially terrible, as someone with 7k+ steam hours. Calling it handholding to not have to tab out to the wiki every 2 seconds is a bit odd

[@MilkCalf]

Warframe's improved beginning is better than it was before but it still emphasises completely unimportant things. Why do they spend resources explaining every little basic feature and button press in a mission when they could be teaching you where you can get important resources and mods or how the builds work? I played Warframe when it didn't teach you much and the very things that the tutorial tell you are the things I picked up by experimenting.

[@XionTheSylveon]

The largest quit moment for me that has hit nearly every game I now used to play is this 'FOMO' that has come with a LOT of modern game design. If the main reason I boot up a game is "There's content I'd fall behind on if I don't keep playing", your game isn't actually engaging I'm not hearing it. And with the sheer number of 'battle passes' & freemium models that a lot of games use, FOMO is a thing many games use to try and keep player counts high as it looks good for investors and shareholders. It's heavily affected if I want to even play a new game. Warframe and Legends of Runeterra being the most notable ones for me. The other one was one you covered already, the whole feeling of being overwhelmed post-tutorial. I will never forget how I spent 500+ hours on Warframe, nearly had every attainable mod & frame (barring a few vaulted ones at the time), beaten all the quests, even had a nearly fully complete Archwing set. Rivens released as well as the bloody stuff after Second Dream. The extra mechanical bloat that also left me feeling overwhelmed after the fact on top of the FOMO was entirely too much to bear. The game was a chore of grind and after having done nearly everything only to know that there wasn't any point. Nothing to work towards. Just grind to keep ahead of their ever increasing content that isn't synergistic with one another that further adds arguably needless complexity.

[@Yenz30415]

While I wouldn't say FOMO was particularly bad in Warframe, the post tutorial stuff certainly never stopped and it was not enjoyable in the end. I am a founder, I've played the game since closed beta, well over 1k hours in it, and I finally quit last year because I realized that the devs are more interested in pumping out more worthless content in order to make money than they are in actually making a stable game. Every new release is a new system that barely interacts with the old systems in the game, and if it does it breaks those old systems. Every update is simply this concept, and none of them are clean up. When clean up does happen, it often ends up entirely irrelevant. Destiny 2 on the other hand has the opposite problem. The only FOMO I had in Warframe were the founder Prime gear that I couldn't get cause I didn't pay enough. Destiny 2 however feels really polished and functional, but because I started playing when it went free, I missed literally hundreds of hours of content and knew zero about what was happening in the lore. Destiny does absolutely nothing to catch you up, Byf is legit your best bet for that, and then the way seasons were handled is just a nightmarish part time job grind all the damn time. The gameplay feels good, which is what gets ya hooked, but I eventually realized I was spending about 30 hours a week just trying to keep up with the season pass and finally told myself it wasn't fucking worth it. Since then I've beaten a loooooot of games, so many amazing stories and experiences that I never would have gotten if I kept up with Warframe or Destiny. In the end, I realized the best way to enjoy gaming is in variety, not in monotony.

[@bangormc3rd562]

FOMO is a major turn off for me, as well. That being said, it's never really been a problem I've had with Warframe. Then again, Warframe is definitely a game I drop in and out of. I can't say I've ever felt pressure to play it, as the login rewards, vaulted system, and Nightwave have never made me feel like I'm really missing much if I don't do them. I guess it depends on the person, and what they're looking for in a game? If you're a completionist type, I can see why these systems would bother you, for sure. WoW was a huge "quit because of FOMO" game for me, because they made actual CONTENT irrelevant. Old raids and dungeons that noone would do. Whole zones that there was no point visiting. "Better do it now while it's relevant, because in the next patch, NOONE WILL CARE."

[@allthatishere]

I dropped Warframe like 3 years ago and boy do I not regret. Watching timers on when Eidolons would be up, grinding all the different reps, etc. There were days I just didn't want to play because the grind was just too much, but I needed to at least log in to keep making progress on the login tracker to get stuff like Primed Vigor. I do not miss any of this.

[@MEXICANFOSKI]

When Warframe became fishingframe...

[@MikhailKutzow]

For me one of the most common quit moments tends to be when a game becomes a routine, with dailies or the like, and then something distracts me and I stop playing for a bit. When dailies turn a game into a routine grind, it can sometimes feel worth it to stick it out for the high points. But then when getting back into the game, the grind feels like a hurdle - it's no longer a part of my routine, it's instead essentially a payment of time I have to commit to making in order to keep having fun. This isn't about the game not "respecting my time" - it's just that the game doesn't offer me a fair exchange of time put in to fun had, once it stops being a routine to play. If a game lets me return without feeling I've been missing out and falling behind purely for taking a break, then I'm more likely to return and get hooked again. This isn't about grind, either. I don't mind a grind necessarily, so long as it's at least a bit entertaining. I love Monster Hunter, and that series is pretty much all about grinding for new gear. What I want is to be able to take that grind at my pace. If I have to play daily, I find it's a lot less often that I have days where I really pour myself into a game.

[@hengineer]

So true @ your first point. So many older games are ported onto steam and the developers did zero work to get it compatible on modern systems. A game as simple as Bejeweled Twist, and it crashes, or the hacks to get it to work don't let you use Fullscreen mode because your GPU is too new.

[@CarthagoMike]

Daily challenges are both a good mechanic for player retention as well as a trigger point for someone to quit permanently. Even if the sword does not cut both ways, the blunt side will still have a detrimental effect.

[@bitterblossom19]

Why I quit would be 1. Irl responsibilities 2. The grind becomes too much of a chore 3. Meh content 4. F*****g internet connection 5. Toxic community dominating the community as a whole Edit: Now that I've watched the whole video (comment was made before the premiere)... The insta-quit moment for me is installing the game but the installer doesn't work (crashes) and having to download and install plugins and googling how to make the game run.

[@ProtoZealott]

2 and 3 combine very often in games that are regularly updated. When the new content becomes a chore to sit through, or just not very interesting, that's a major quit moment for me too.

[@Arkantos117]

The thing with WoW is if you removed the 'toxic' players then general/trade chat would be dead everywhere and the game would feel even emptier. Those people are the only ones interested in talking to strangers it seems these days.

[@ersetzbar.]

@@Arkantos117 lets be real, the boost meta makes the game feel worse then it ever was. On the first day of logging into SL a few months ago.... tradechat and lfg full of service bots. Noone takes newbies into dungeons, without overgearing or paying. When I asked in trade how to deal with it, i got told to buy a boost by 5 people. Big F moment

[@Arkantos117]

@@ersetzbar. Yeah boosters are a plague. That's what guilds used to be for.

[@ersetzbar.]

@@Arkantos117 you want to join our guild? thats two tokens

[@liuby33]

Your example with The Witcher 3 hit me hard. I’ve advertised this game to 10 people before I eventually finished it myself, 5 years after its release. Now I left Zelda for a month and got equally as confused

[@wck0419]

Very true indeed. I used to play FF14 but since real life stuff became a bit too overwhelming, I had to stop for a few months. And when I returned to the game a few months later, I quite literally forgot everything about the game. It's almost like as if I borrowed some end game player's account when I didn't even finish the tutorial. Even though I spent a couple hours rewatching beginners guide on KZbin but in the end I just felt so frustrated to have to pick up everything again and quitted. That was my quit moment.

[@lordfunkatron9732]

My "quit moment" in nearly every game is usually I get busy and the game doesn't hook me enough to go back. This happened with final fantasy recently, I was having a pretty good time but my mind space is now filled by other things and other games, I would have to force myself to go back

[@someclevername8167]

XIV is pretty much designed with that in mind, so it’s no big deal to not play it for a while

[@Thakkii]

Same here, i was about to start stormblood then lost interest somehow , currently playing swotor , totaly different games but im enjoying it so much that made me watch star wars saga

[@jonathansoko5368]

@@someclevername8167 The point flew over your head. I know it pains you but some people just don't like it.

[@someclevername8167]

@@jonathansoko5368 imagine thinking I care whether you play the game or not lmao. I was just saying that it’s there if you ever want to come back and try again. You trying to start shit for no reason lol

[@jonathansoko5368]

@@someclevername8167 you mistook my comment for me caring whether or not you cared

[@RazzleTheRed1]

A big quit moment for me was with Hearthstone, I returned to the game after having not played for a long while. I was greeted to the game telling me all my cards were locked behind an arbitrary ranking system that wasn't present before, the game told me I could skip said ranking system to unlock my stuff instantly but I would miss out on rewards. That was the biggest fuck you I've ever had, a game tell me I couldn't use the stuff I previously earned for completely arbitrary reasons. So I quit on the spot and have never looked back

[@paulpeak1512]

I haven't had any desire to go back to Hearthstone since MTG Arena came out(nevermind my love/hate relationship with Magic rng) but this comment just made sure that was never gonna happen.

[@RazzleTheRed1]

@@paulpeak1512 Yeah I've been enjoying MTG Arena quite a bit the last month or so

[@TheIndianaGeoff]

My Hearthstone moment was when the game was fairly new, I had a decent beginning deck. A new release came out and I dropped a small amount of money to get a deck with the new release. Not top tier, but enough to have fun with the new ones. Then about a month later a new deck came out. That is when I was out, I am not going to spend the money needed to keep up with that kind of release schedule.

[@paulrexlan1307]

I thought the eternal ccg was better than hearthstone..it's not ptw either

[@sticktastick]

I watched this a couple days ago and then BOOM hit my quit moment. A few friends wanted to try out Guildwars 2. I own it so I logged in, they got trials and we went to go play together. However, I haven't played in years and I am on a full server so they can't join my server. I can transfer to a different server, but I either have to delete my characters or buy gems. So I buy gems so I can move to a medium pop server so we can play together. After 6 hours passed and the gems still not being added to my account my friends and I uninstalled the game and went back to play other games. Quit moment hit before any of us started playing. I can order things online and have it delivered to my house in less than 6 hours so this type of lag/wait time for a digital purchase just doesn't make sense.

[@mgvikings1484]

it doesn't make sense and is a proof of inexistent competence, the game publishers just does not deserve any attention or money given to them.

[@marcoclegg]

I know it's too late but guild wars actually will let you join your friends if you join their instance (which is pretty much their server) you friend them and invite them to your party. When you're in the same map you can join their place and start playing together. guild wars is pretty good about it but they don't ever really tell you about it so I don't blame you for quitting. When it happened to me I thought being on the same server mattered and when we couldn't see each other anyway I had to look it up. I play guild wars religiously now but I was the closest to quitting the game I'd ever been in that moment.

[@shayenbrown910]

I quit gw2 after 2 like 15 months after I realized how draining it is. Creating a set of ascended gear without buying mats that cost a ton takes over a month, crafting legendary takes months and requires hours of gameplay daily to get everything required. Plus life happens having to play a game for over 3-4 hrs to get anything done us just too much, gold farming is another major issue. Just too much to do takes way too long it becomes unenjoyable... Everytime I re install ( I do like once every 6 months) and having to relearn my skills and all that is also a quit moment it's just too demanding like a full-time job.

[@marcoclegg]

@@shayenbrown910 you can actually just outright purchase most ascended materials for a reasonable price nowadays. The real challenge is those legendaries which are a bit of a grind but don't provide stat bonuses stronger than ascended anyway so they just look cool. The game is pretty casual and it rewards using the easy way out a lot of the time. I can't remember the last time I didn't just do a daily fractal for 10 gold in an hour to get all my ascended mats off the trading post. Gw2 seems to suffer from the idea that it's a hard core mmo but there's a lot of easy ways to cheat their systems and it was always meant to encourage casual play instead of tireless grinding for something that will be useless in a few months.

[@Ms_Cheesecake]

To anyone seeing this, I know it's been 2 years since the original comment: GW2 doesn't do "servers" in the traditional sense and hasn't since the mid 2010s. "Servers" are only for a specific gamemode (World vs World) that involves 3 servers fighting each other (and, if Anet ever gets it freaking working, even those "servers" will be going away Soon(tm)). All PvE and everything else is done in a "megaserver" that's broken down into map instances. You can create a party with your friend, right click on their profile icon in the group list, and click "Join in ." It is one of MANY systems GW2 fails to explain, and I understand it being a "Quit Moment" for people.

[@ZiiiZero]

When I was a teen, there weren't many games that kept my interest over a few months, but I always returned to them sooner or later. Sometimes returning is difficult, due to forgetting how to play the character or what I was doing or due to changes to a character, but I usually manage or I push back returning to the next time I get interested. A true quit moment that I remember was in a game that actually managed to keep my interest for about a year, but then I was banned for 2 weeks for unknowingly playing with a hacker in an instance that normally lasted for a few minutes (so a hacker didn't even make it that much faster). Either way, I lost interest in the game after that (also it didn't help that the game was constantly going towards more and more p2w), but kept coming back to it occassionally since I enjoyed the combat. But never would I play it for as long as I had originally played it for. It became one of those games that kept me entertained for a while and then got forgotten again for months. This kind of back and forth with that game came to a halt when the company messed up and deleted everyone's progress. Titles, achievements, money... Even the characters appearances were scrambled. This was the killing blow that spelled the game was truly going to die sooner or later. The company hurriedly sold the game to another company that would milk it till dry, but there was 0 chance for me and many others to return to the official servers anymore after that. A few years later, the game was truly buried and gone. About a year ago, I tried that game on a private server for a while for nostalgia, but it also suddenly disappeared after a few months. Either way, I managed to play it enough to get to the server's max level and felt satisfied finally being able to see what the gameplay truly would've been like (grinding the same instance for hours on end, and the private server still having p2w elements) and decided, the game wasn't for me. There are just better options nowadays anyway. There's always a chance, that after a few years I will return to another private server due to nostalgia. Maybe there is one that instantly puts me in an endgame gear so I can finally experience the raids that I was always trying to desperately reach for, and play through the story that I was always stuck on. Or maybe I won't, because I don't miss it anymore.

[@mykin3945]

The only MMO that I ever actively "quit" was WoW and it was for a reason that most would probably find silly: We got Mechagnomes instead of Sethrak for an Allied Race. For me, I saw the community hype for Sethrak and I saw the same changes in 8.1 they had made to suggest that the Sethrak might go Alliance, much like the small changes they made to some High Elf dialogue before Blood Elves were introduced in Burning Crusade. So when Sethrak were essentially swept under the rug in favor of yet another Alliance race reskin, I took that as a sign that Blizzard wasn't listening to the community anymore and basically stopped playing after that. I did buy Shadowlands to give Blizzard another chance. But I played it for a day before uninstalling it again. It's clear to me now that even if we had gotten Sethrak, I probably wouldn't have stayed long with Blizzard having become tone deaf to the community. They have made a game they want to play. Too bad it isn't the game I used to enjoy anymore.

[@sygmarvexarion7891]

Nah, you are bored with the game. Don't try to justify it in any other way. Any other reason you may give would just be the straw that broke the camel's back, not THE reason why you quit. Personally, I quit because I was fucking *BORED* . I would just log into the game, maybe do a couple of world quests and then not feel like doing anything else, and logging off.

[@EmilyKveldulv]

I quit because, while i didnt like the new expansion, i was gonna keep playing through it, but the lawsuit broke an illusion id made for myself regarding blizz. That somehow they were one of the good ones. But there are no good corporations. And while i still love many of the developers, and want to support THEM, and especially the people like me who are discriminated against and harassed in that environment, i know continuing to pay will only support the execs. The devs get scraps. I hope Acti-Blizz burns. Not just fot what they did to their employees. But also for what they did to my childhood.

[@kreiyu]

@Raining Clean so much this! all of the allied races were just the customizations players have wanted for years, but shoed in as "new" races. and then the fact that you had to grind rep before you could make and play as one was a poor move for a new expansion. and as an undead main, bfa and shadowlands have been real poor when it comes to undead customizations. no new undead race options. "blah blah lore blah." it's all fantasy, they can create a reason. and in an expansion that takes us to the realms of death, they still get the short straw. no straight backs, no varying states of decay, no fresh undead models (derek proudmore, calia, sylvanas), no full skeleton models. there is a group of undead skeletal trolls we quest for in bfa for a bit that got my hopes up, but no. nothing. pretty much it was the way they keep screwing over the undead, constant efforts to re-invent the wheel with each new expansion, and the growing lack of interest in the feedback of the player base is why i've basically quit. oh and the removal of the option to buy game time, one month at a time, was it for me. as that's how i was buying my time. i'm not going to ay for more time than i think i might be able to or even want to play. their whole intent with that is to get people to sub at the monthly rate with the intent to cancel, but hope they forget so they keep paying without realizing it. it's a scummy practice.

[@Lowaver]

@@sygmarvexarion7891 I am not sure about that. A friend and I quit the game because blizzard keeps doing the stupid cycle they have been doing since legion. Expac releases and has hype Hype dies down and shows all its broken settings. Blizzard doubles down.... it fails. Blizzard fixes the problem with a solution that could have been in X.0.5. Expac becomes good and they announce new xpac. Cycle starts again. It's extremely boring. Asmon did a thing on it in one of his videos.

[@kylegifford546]

​@Raining Clean I mean Mag'har orcs make sense. Their lore is different enough to warrant different racials imo. Edit: Though I concede the models are not new or interesting.

[@butIwantpewee]

My personal quit moment with MMO's are never while I'm playing. It's when I haven't logged on for a month, realize I still don't have the motivation to log on and decide to stop paying my sub.

[@MaakaSakuranbo]

Maybe the quit moment was then the reason that made you feel not motivated to login

[@TheZenytram]

When you breaks the habit of playing it to do life stuffs, then you realised after some days without playing it that you were just a addicted drug user of that game, and that you were just mindless waste time for no reson.

[@DreaMeRHoLic]

@@MaakaSakuranbo Not really... he's talking about taking a break. A break doesnt mean to quit... but if he feels that the price for a sub is to high he quits the game for good.

[@kyotheman69]

that was your quit moment, the reason you didn't feel like logging in, clearly you lost interest just didn't relies it.

[@hortense5321]

That’s how I am with Warframe rn... Welp, time to drop the ball and wait ‘til DE optimizes their shit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@fenrishellhound3982]

My quit moment with Warframe was when I had, at the time, done every weapon/warframe/etc at the time save for like 1 or 2(big woop), hit MR26, and decided that it was more than likely the perfect place to quit because of all the trashy, unsynergetic systems they added to the game. Your video on parasitic game design nails every reason why I quit warframe perfectly. There are so many things that don't add to the core gameplay but leech tons of resources and time from base game and previous areas/systems just to grind it out. There are systems that could be removed entirely and NOTHING OF VALUE would be lost and I would love the game more for it. Warframe is in desperate need of some kind of streamlining to make the overall experience better and more retentive. But I guess that will never happen until they get over the phase they're in now.

[@Percopius]

I stopped for almost the exact same reasons, at about the same level as you -- but the main reason was the FOMO. I HATE feeling I HAVE to log in or miss something powerful and free, and Warframe is all about that. Granted it is fair and you can just buy inventory space for frames and get by, but I detest the FOMO feeling.

[@Hooga89]

I agree with this sentiment just when it comes to Path of Exile. I spent a lot of time on it, but now it's so full of CHORES you feel you have to do in order to progress your character every new league that I just rage quit after a few hours because it feels like I'm doing things I don't want to do in order to get to where the game gets fun, which is simply BAD design.

[@fenrishellhound3982]

@@Percopius Completely agree. I got to the point where I had my phone set up to receive updates and depending on what it was, let me know if I had to set aside time for things. That was another thing that made me want to quit because I did realize I shouldn't have to be doing that.

[@Anonymous-sq6eo]

I used to play it on my Playstation. My life took a turn at that time and I had to sell my Playstation, and that was shortly before they released the snowy open world. I loved Warframe. I played all the time and I enjoyed long survival runs the most. I tried to get back into it on PC now that I am at a better point in my life, but… I remembered all the grind and time invested on my PS accout, and I did not want to go through all of that again. How is it now a days? Did it change a lot?

[@kazumablackwing4270]

@@Anonymous-sq6eo it's as grindy as it's ever been, which, while not a bad thing on its own, it's added systems that could have been good, but feel unfinished or forgotten about. The biggest setback, imo, is the daily standing caps for syndicates and open-world areas..and the fact that so many late game items are gated behind said standing

[@Ashadow700]

The biggest recent quit moment for me was WoW Classic. I was not able to play it at launch due to a really bad wrist injury. When I had eventually recovered and got the chance to try the game, it seemed like there was no one playing anymore. Everyone was either sitting at max level or had quit the game altogether, leaving an essentially empty world with no one to level or do dungeons with. That, combined with all the crap Blizzard had been pulling over the past few years, just made the game feel like it was not worth the effort. (On a sidenote, don't neglect computer ergonomics. It is waaaaay more important than most people recognize)

[@thed00merguy]

The worst feeling ever is getting into an mmo and the tutorial area is completely devoid of players.

[@Brekfastmachine]

Every once in a while one of my friends will put up a WoW private server and we will all spend the next few months leveling up together and running dungeons and getting loot. It's still such a great game when it's played that way. It's too bad that new official players don't have the option to experience it that way.

[@grandcanyon2]

OMFG this is late but i love this post, i came to wow classics late, and there was no new players most had maxed accounts or had alts who were getting boosted or lvling with guildies. There is and was no dungeon finder i hit lvl 14 on a lock and said fhk this shit and logged out. Wow classics tbc and wotlk had character boost and worlk thou late had dugeon finder, to bad they waited till wotl classics was 75 percent almost over to put it in.

[@cloverring]

Had a quit moment with Maplestory. At the beginning of COVID my friends and I decided to boot up OG maplestory. We all quit because we were leveling up at different rates, thus the game’s quest systems locked us out of playing together ( the quests you can accept are purely based on your level). I eventually was the only person playing, and in my race to get to lvl 200 to play with one friend I was stun locked into a case where I was unable to level up because the enemies meant to be at my level were OVERPOWERED, killing me so much that I kept losing levels. There were no other quests I can accept because I was too high level or low leveled, the lower, killable monsters did not give me any XP for some reason, and my level 200+ friend could not join in on my quests to help me fight monsters because he was too high and him helping me grind did not give him any benefit or XP. I dedicated two months to this game, and I quit because I could not do anything. The game itself stopped me from having a good time. I wanted to experience so much of the the lore and story, but I was too high leveled. I couldn’t play with friends because of the level differences, and no one was even on the server that was around my level so I couldn’t make new friends. Everyone, it seems, that still plays maple are super high leveled players. What am I even suppose to do in this case but to quit?

[@WannaComment2]

@@Sciuridae Designed as intended. Bet you, there were "handy" solutions for all of those problems available on the Cash Shop.

[@Catumbo]

@@WannaComment2 nope, its just a race/class that starts waaaay overpowered, its basically a single player race and current MS sucks even w/o p2w

[@ballzz2thewall]

I had a game breaking bug in Maplestory that teleported me to a high level area with no way to get out. As much as I loved the game I wasnt going to make another character and do the grind again.

[@TheVioletBunny]

Maplestory sounds like a mash up of cave story and Canadian stuff.

[@Shoelid]

My recent quit moment in Starbase was when I put in over 10 hours designing the space semi truck of my dreams, only to realize after that it was a shit design and that I would need to do a complete redesign for a better ship. It was like that moment when you get PKed and lose your stuff, but for intellectual gains. All that creative effort went down the drain because they didn’t thoroughly explain the things I would need on my ship.

[@josephhamilton7881]

I quit Warframe back when Plains of Eidolon came out. They had giant creatures you could farm cores from, which you needed for upgrading a specific weapon. Well, I spent a long time grinding alone gathering over 100+ in one go. Well, the nighttime came and because of this, the game kicked me out and took away my cores. I quit that day.

[@jonathansoko1085]

DE lost their soul around that time for sure. They just keep copy pasting content, and how they went all in on the stupid space ships after it failed hard pushed me further out

[@no3ironman11100]

@@jonathansoko1085 People loved railjack what? A lot of warframe players think it's amazing.

[@hjalmiris4230]

Sevagoth and the overly high power levels of the Grineer RJ was the final straw for me.

[@5eb9]

@@no3ironman11100 Railjack has been improved upon quite a bit, but it suffered from a very rocky launch with the numbers of things being all over the place and teased features being left out.

[@jonathansoko1085]

@@no3ironman11100 People did not love railjack, you are mistaken fam. It was a colossal failure. This doesnt mean there arent those that like it, but it was hated by the masses. I mean a real hate.

[@unit38421]

The biggest quit factor for me is when I start to feel like a game no longer respects my time, or deliberate wasting my time. It can be when I think certain activities within the game don't provide rewards that are proportional to the risk and time investment in the activity, or even worse, when games make changes that reduce rewards or increase the time investment for no apparant reason, especially when you see them simultaneously introduce paid soltions to speed things up again.

[@iskmogulgaming]

GGG themselves admit that most players never even finish the campaign, and many don't even fight the first boss. There's a whole video that could be made about the way Path of Exile enforces extremely gated progression that a lot of the community feel is too much. The mentality behind that game's design is a hell of a case study in how designers wanting a certain type of game won't align with some player expectations. Your statement about players not feeling like their time investment is worth it is a pretty perfect entry point into why Path of Exile is burning out some players.

[@christianstonecipher1547]

Yeah this essentially sums up my experience with POE, first time I played was having fun hit act probably 6 and suddenly the difficulty spike made it so that my build was completely unable to keep up so I quit. I came back eventually and this time read up on the game and somewhat followed a build guide(I followed the idea of the build without sweating every individual detail so it was at least somewhat my own) and this time got to endgame, where the first atlas missions completely stomped me and I once again quit. The game has some major difficulty spikes that really are not nice to run up against. There is so much choice and variety in the game it really sucks that much of it is either useless at endgame or only good in a few specific use cases meaning that there are only a limited number of viable choices in a game chock full of choices. I want to like POE but the fact that a build guide is practically required to make it to endgame makes sours it for me.(MY point about the build guide being necessary mostly comes down to the fact that there are a LOT of strategies that seem like they should work to an untrained mind but you won't realize if the strategies actually work until you get to a difficulty spike and if they don't you practically have to start a new character because there isn't really a good way to respec an existing character)

[@asdergold1]

Their every league fucking their servers even post heist says a lot about the development. Heist was one of the worst by far. And yeah, fuck PoE anyways, you NEED to spend money on it. Stashes. Stashes are a must.

[@LockheedMartinEnjoyer]

My quit moment with PoE leagues is server latency and stability, GGG can't seem to figure it out and playing in slideshow isn't fun.

[@Fiercesoulking]

I played with multiply chars the story through but everytime I hit endcontent PoE sucks . Problems always was it has a too high difficulty when you simply run into it and were absolute unforgiving for fps drops. The newer problem is they expect you to do stuff like ascension , mining , beast something and many more mechanics and then balance around this. Recently they even increased the difficulty by far . Don't know how PoE2 will be but I hope they think twice to do it this hard again.

[@BMoser-bv6kn]

The stat tree is pretty symbolic, with how it's over complicating the Diablo 2 stat point system to edgelord degrees. When the same function could be done with compressing it down to like 20 stat skills per class. It also provides powers that devalues equipment - life regeneration, mana cost reduction, movement speed, attack speed, all would be really exciting stuff you could find on gear but is just built in automatically to your character as they level. I lost interest mostly because they went in a direction completely different from what I'm interested in. The first AoE ice spell is important and cool. But with diminishing returns on utility value, the twentieth AoE ice spell is not interesting. What was cool about Diablo 2 was how classes had unique power sets. An example is the Druid's Tornado spell - it's a garbage version of Lightning Bolt or Bone Spear, but it's relevant because that's the best spell like that the Druid has. (Yet they gave it the Wizard in D3 anyway lol.) You can see how designers often do not grasp this basic concept at all: They gave the Witch Undead Minion stats and spell damage. Every character has auras. But they made the game they wanted to make, I give'em that.

[@thierrydecker8110]

The closest thing to an MMO I've ever actively played was Genshin Impact. I actually really enjoyed it's world, gameplay and story. But it's daily grind took so much time and energy every day that I didn't actually get the chance to play the game. After a few weeks I got tired of it and quit.

[@sephiroth70001]

All gacha games are made that way. They want daily attendance so you always thing of the game and get invested to spend money. Hoping you spend money and get caught into a sunk cost fallacy to continue the circle. Its also why stamina systems are so popular because it gets people coming back so they don't waste their capped stamina and feel like they are falling behind wasting resources.

[@dreioo8759]

@@thierrydecker8110 there's definetly a lot of love put into Genshin, sadly the predatory gacha model bogs it down.

[@johnmaco]

A mobile game shouldn't even have grind. We're playing on a phone, ofc, it must be more casual. And if it still has grind, it must be auto or take around 10 mins to do dailies, like in Guardian Tales. That's why I still play it while waiting for new story chapters.

[@IRMentat]

quests and the world of genshin are top notch. the gameplay makes OG zelda look complex 1 combo, 1 special, 4 characters to swap between (making anything beyond 2-player utter tedium to play) and braindead enemies who often latency their way through providing accurate telegraphs to attacks that can take half of a max level characters hitpoints (probably with a flinch, knockdown AND debuff at the same time) but looks like an idle-animation with no windup. i love it and i hate it.

[@captainobvious8037]

Gw2 might be the best mmorpg in my opinion

[@amoore2165]

Agree with all points! My quit moments have definitely been things being too complex and the returning player who no longer knows/remembers how to play his character.

[@Intrspace]

So you're a filthy casual

[@amoore2165]

@@Intrspace I think most people take real life more seriously than game life. That said I did used to be the #1 rated PVP Balance Druid in my Battlegroup ( Battlegroup was 6 or 7 servers). I considered it semi-casual.

[@UlshaRS]

@@Intrspace Nice elitism bro! Did you get that in the last ego expansion pack?

[@syragrippa8769]

F2P and cash shops aren't even quit moments, they're 'not even going to start' moments.