The Racing Aircraft That Gave Us The Spitfire | Supermarine Schneiders

Today we look at the legendary Supermarine racing aircraft from the Scheider Cup Races.
- Limited Edition X4009 Spitfire Watches-
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Recommended Reading:
amzn.to/3sUaqIF [Schneider Trophy Aircraft 1913-1931]
amzn.to/45WAAsM [The Schneider Trophy Air Races: The Development of Flight from 1909 to the Spitfire]
amzn.to/46gvAze [Supermarine Aircraft Since 1914]
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0:00 Intro
3:37 Pre-1925 Efforts
7:47 Supermarine S.4
10:55 Supermarine S.5
16:57 Supermarine S.6
24:01 Supermarine S.6b

[@RexsHangar]

F.A.Q Section Q: Do you take aircraft requests? A: I have a list of aircraft I plan to cover, but feel free to add to it with suggestions:) Q: Why do you use imperial measurements for some videos, and metric for others? A: I do this based on country of manufacture. Imperial measurements for Britain and the U.S, metric for the rest of the world, but I include text in my videos that convert it for both. Q: Will you include video footage in your videos, or just photos? A: Video footage is very expensive to licence, if I can find footage in the public domain I will try to use it, but a lot of it is hoarded by licencing studies (British Pathe, Periscope films etc). In the future I may be able to afford clips :) Q: Why do you sometimes feature images/screenshots from flight simulators? A: Sometimes there are not a lot of photos available for certain aircraft, so I substitute this with digital images that are as accurate as possible.

[@janprochazka9308]

Suggestion: You could make a video about the german multi-role bomber Ju 88. I think It is rather interesting aircraft to cover because of the different uses it had in WW2. Love your videos, keep it up !

[@aabumble9954]

4:11 Please do a video on this specific unusual Aircraft?

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Wait. You're Australian? Do you know Randy Feltface?

[@benholroyd5221]

How much of the £1600 goes towards the actual charity? I saw no mention on their website, or even of cash actually being handed over.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@benholroyd5221 That is a very important question for any charitable giving.

[@BretHiggins]

My Great great (great?) Uncle won the 1929 Schneider Trophy in an S6B, earning the AFC. Unfortunately he died in 1931 testing new engines in a Hawker Horsley. Both he and an engineer bailed out after engine failure. The engineer landed safely, but Uncle Richard hit a wall and died a couple of days later from his wounds. His plane is in the Solent Sky Museum along with his sword. Wonderful to see this lesser known aircraft in the spotlight. Family connections aside, I'd love to see more documentaries about lesser known aircraft. Cheers!

[@kfeltenberger]

Back in the late 1970s, as a boy I built a motorized model of the S.6 and thought it was the most elegant airplane I had ever seen.

[@marckyle5895]

I built the Hawk one. I painted mine British Racing Green. I agree. Elegant.

[@jeffbrinkerhoff5121]

Count me in.. I built a plastic S4 circa 1962. Was intrigued by the gorgeous lines.. best to all..

[@unclefart5527]

I built the Airfix 1/72 and still remember it as one of my first kits.

[@DisneyJF]

The Macchi Castoldi MC 72 was a absolute stunner. I think that was was the most beautiful sea plane ever created for the Schneider Trophy. What a beauty.🤩🤩😍😍

[@HorsleyLandy88]

My Great Uncle did the wind tunnel tests on the S6B at the National Physics Laboratory. I have a letter from the Aeronautical Research Committee, thanking him for his work, 14th May 1932. During the war he went to America to work on the Manhattan project.

[@nonyadamnbusiness9887]

I'm guessing he either worked on gaseous diffusion or the bomb casings.

[@HorsleyLandy88]

@nonyadamnbusiness9887 not sure but I did find him mentioned in the Manhattan project book. I asked him if he saw the first test Trinity, and he said no but he did see the second one. I have so many more things that I wish I could have asked him. I only knew him as a child before he died of prostate cancer. A very quiet gentleman.

[@nonyadamnbusiness9887]

@@HorsleyLandy88 He may not have even known what he was doing, just solving the problems put before him. My aunt was labor at Oak Ridge. She monitored machine gauges and made adjustments to keep them within specified tolerance. She knew she was doing war work for the government, otherwise she was clueless.

[@mpetersen6]

What amazes me is that these racing aircraft were faster than land planes with those huge floats hanging out in the breeze.

[@Juno-xh2ph]

It's the pitch of the propeller, they had them pitched so high that without airspeed the propellor was stalled and wouldn't generate enough thrust. You needed a longer runway than what was available at the time to get them into the air, so you just used a lake instead

[@mothmagic1]

Just look at the difference in engine power though and you'll realise why.

[@anzaca1]

Well for one, they had monstrous engines compared to land planes.

[@mpetersen6]

@@anzaca1 The R type used for the Schneider Cup was the same displacement as the later Griffon. They also were not burning straight petrol.

[@stevenborham1584]

RR engineers actually helped the Fiat engineers stop their engines from detonating (in the MC. 72) through being over stuffed with air from the long ram intake. The RR team helped to stabilise the fuel mixture control to stop the fatal inflight backfires. So Britain helped Fiat/Macchi set their still standing record when you think about it. Gotta give the Italians credit though in developing tandem engines behind a contra prop in the 1st place.

[@stevenborham1584]

The M-39 (for an airplane) is way sexier though, even against anything flying since.@@AquaFyre

[@IntrospectorGeneral]

The Italians definitely shopped around for effective engine manufacturers. In 1924 the two Macchi M33 used the American Curtiss D-12 engine but had engine problems with both, causing one to cancel and the other to underperform badly.

[@gordonanderson3111]

The development of fuel injection, now the major advance we have seen in ALL car engines, stopped the backfires that could blow the carburator off the engine with disastrous results. It also meant planes with this could do far more manuevers, like dive straight down or fly upside down without the carb float stopping fuel to the engine. Not having the engine stop was a great advantage while dog fighting or racign low to the ground.

[@xvdd1]

The R engines were not just confined to the air they were also used by Sir Henry Segrave, Campbell's Bluebird and Eyston's Thunderbolt capturing world speed records on land and water.

[@edgarbeat2851]

I recently discovered that and also amazing the engines still exist.

[@womble321]

They were the same bore and stroke as the griffon. I'm slightly puzzled why they say its the only thing they had in common.

[@davidelliott5843]

RR saved at least one of every engine type they made.

[@cartmanrlsusall]

It's funny that the Curtis floatplane beat everyone so bad that they canceled the race and everyone built floatplanes 😂

[@IntrospectorGeneral]

Floatplanes were quite common in the early Schneider Cup competitions, with the French being the main users. The Italians favoured seaplanes, and the British tried both. The 1924 Schneider Trophy was cancelled by the Americans who were the current trophy holders because no other countries had aircraft to enter. The French had cancelled the aircraft they had been developing and the British aircraft prototypes (floatplanes) crashed being tested. The competition rules didn't require the American cancellation. In 1920 the Italians won the trophy with no other countries competing.

[@bobsakamanos4469]

The Supermarine S4 was the aircraft to beat, however the pilot pushed the envelope during practice and overstressed the wings. It was a valuble lesson learned for RJ, who moved on to engineering metal wings.

[@TheNecromancer6666]

... and how quickly the Curtiss was then woefully underpowered and useless as a biplane.

[@cartmanrlsusall]

@@TheNecromancer6666 yes it was a good kick in the pants they needed

[@TheNecromancer6666]

@@cartmanrlsusall Also a sign of the times. How fast airframes and engines evolved.

[@redknight6077]

The 109 ended up with aspirations at the same common ancestry. The Spitfite/109 rivalry began long before the war had started with envious eyes.

[@adriancash7063]

Aspieations?

[@redknight6077]

@@adriancash7063 aspirations, a typist I am not. It's corrected now!

[@marckyle5895]

@@adriancash7063 Aspieations. The goals and desires of us Aspies!

[@johnjephcote7636]

The so-called Speed Spitfire was not proceeded with towards a contest with German contenders. It was unsuitable after all its modification for any other duries and, presumably, being painted blue, it was passed to Photographic Reconnaissance. They found little use for it and it languished in an M.U. until the end of hostilities and then, with so many others was 'reduced to produce'.

[@BlackHawkBallistic]

Man that MC 72 is such a good looking plane, it looks like its going fast just sitting still

[@rayceeya8659]

This makes me want to rewatch Porco Rosso.

[@lonelystrategos]

Me too, such a great film.

[@rulingmoss5599]

Crazy how ahead of its time and utterly quick it was for the period.

[@jamesburns2232]

440 mph for a single engine piston powered seaplane is a record still held by Supermarine today. 🤠

[@etiennelamarche7796]

It holded the record for the fastest floatplane for like 40 years (until the sea dart)

[@etiennelamarche7796]

Still the fastest prop floatplane tho

[@jeremypnet]

None of you watched the video. The piston engined seaplane record is held by the Macchi MC72.

[@rulingmoss5599]

@@jeremypnet I did actually, and my point still stands, both planes are ludicrously quick for the time period.

[@oldesertguy9616]

I love the art deco look of those planes. Beautiful.

[@wlewisiii]

I look forward to your Schneider Cup videos for US and Italy air craft now. This was damn fun :) Thanks!

[@dananichols1816]

Great photo of Jimmy Doolittle (10:25) with the 1925 Curtiss entry. His auto-biography "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again" is fantastic -- and a wealth of aviation anecdotes and history.

[@robertdragoff6909]

I hope you’ll do a video on the Bendix Trophy which ran from 1931 to 1962. I’d like to see the evolution of airplanes during the run of these races.

[@honzahalamka1639]

Did anyone count how many videos Rex promised us over the course of this one? Cause it feels like there was one every five minutes 😂

[@marckyle5895]

Eventually, Rex will have talked about every aircraft made. He has a lot of fertile ground and that's not even considering lighter-than-air craft and helicopters. Or spacecraft. I heartily wish there was a channel like this one that reviews the history of rocketry and of specific rockets (hint _Apollo_ ).

[@RexsHangar]

I have a horrible habit of comitting to far too many projects 😅

[@marckyle5895]

@@RexsHangar job security!

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

All that horsepower in a fuselage the size of a shoe ! 😊

[@jorehir]

It was amazing how fast top speed progressed. They were making like 50km/h improvements each year!

[@SoloRenegade]

The Supermarine racers are rather well known, but I still learned so much. I feel this is the best summary of the history and details of this line of aircraft I've ever seen.

[@tobyrobson2939]

Well done Rex - your choice of in-depth subject matter and handling of the story and material is spot on once again. Keep ploughing this rich furrow! As tempting as the mainstream manufacturers marques are concerned, the lesser told histories are the ones which have forged your brand as the best KZbin channel for historical aviation documentary. Don't stop, and don't change!

[@mudcrab3420]

The Schneider aircraft have to be some of the most stylishly sexy aircraft ever built.

[@Luddite-vd2ts]

One of these, an S6A that competed in the 1929 event, is preserved in the excellent Solent Sky museum, along with a Spitfire 24, Short Sandringham and many other excellent exhibits. It's well worth a visit.

[@Ob1sdarkside]

The solent sky museum in Southampton has a schneider trophy racer in its collection, well worth a visit

[@trance_trousers]

Yes I agree, I've been there myself.

[@stewartellinson8846]

I believe that's an S5

[@Lensman864]

Try the Science Museum aircraft collection in London. They have one and much more.

[@alexforshaw]

Fab! I had the great pleasure of seeing Supermarine S6A N248 (the 1929 world speed record holder that also appeared in the 1942 film biography of R. J. Mitchell, "The First of the Few") at the Solent Sky Museum in Southampton earlier this year.

[@codyoxcutter]

Man can't wait for the full coverage of all the planes involved in the Schneider cup! All my respect to the people of Supermarine but my heart lies with the MC.72.

[@bhumiriady]

Great video as always, Rex! I knew about the Supermarine Schneiders from various books, but your video made me know more about the story of these beautiful machines.^^

[@AnimeSunglasses]

22:35 "the 1930s equivalent of a Top Gear Challenge" ...and here I had to pause the video for a solid minute or more of laughing hysterically, as I imagined those three blokes reading the challenge card...

[@joylunn3445]

Try to complete your circuit without the engine exploding.

[@AnimeSunglasses]

@@joylunn3445 I read that in James May's voice and I'm picturing all of their faces... 😂

[@dukecraig2402]

It really is a shame that Mitchell didn't live to see his creation turn out to be such a legend.

[@david_fisher]

It's one of the great tragedies. So unfair.

[@dukecraig2402]

@@david_fisher He at least should have lived long enough to see it play such an important roll in saving England during it's darkest hour.

[@raypurchase801]

@@david_fisher Memories of the old movie, "The First of the Few".

[@bobsakamanos4469]

He was working on an improved spitfire when he died. It had a ventral (belly) radiator which would have been far better in reducing cooling drag (Meredith effect). The result would have been longer range, higher max speed, faster cruise, better climb. Such a shame he died of cancer.

[@cl1tcleaner69]

You can find the trophy in Southamptons museum of aviation along with a short Sunderland seaplane and much more, worth a visit as I did many many years ago.

[@stewartellinson8846]

All of the schneider racers are fascinating and whilst the S5-6-6b series won in the end, the Macchi racers were just as interesting and the Mc 72 is a beast which deserves it's own video. The float plane speed record it holds has to be one of the longest standing speed records in aeronautics, possibly for any vehicle?

[@stevewhite3424]

​​​@@AquaFyreIt would seem then that the proper statement would be that the Supemarine had the same lines as the Macci since it flew before the Supemarine was built

[@donaldvincent]

Fantastic Video. Thanks for covering this elegant and capable aircraft. Just beautiful along with the Spitfire they not only fulfilled their roles but looked so beautiful.

[@aaron___6014]

20 years ago I used to love drawing these aircraft as a child. I'm not sure why but they were fascinating

[@ps5801]

Far and away the best work I've ever seen on the Supermarine Schneider Cup aircraft. Thanks, Rex, for putting it together.

[@anarchopupgirl]

While you were talking about the napier lion engine I noticed how low down the engine was, went "I bet that needs a negative pitch trim to fly" and then saw that on the tail Feeling megamindian for a moment

[@johnboothman1235]

9

[@johnboothman1235]

love your work Rex

[@davidkillin8466]

Love your work, Rex. Informative and entertaining, too. Keep it up 👍🏻

[@vanniancillotti]

Simply, a video of outstanding quality. Thank you, Rex.

[@na3044]

So, can we expect a similar segment on the Macchi-racers?

[@douglasfur3808]

I am curious about the prop arrangement. It looked like it could be a counter rotating design?

[@GoldenCroc]

@@douglasfur3808 It is.

[@davedarling4316]

The MC.72 did have contra-rotating props. Probably more efficient to put that massive amount of power through two propellers than one. Even though the extra gearing adds weight and decreases efficiency.

[@sidefx996]

What an absolutely fantastic video you've made here. Thank you!

[@oilguygamer1744]

Just another great one. thank you very much.

[@simonspringate7135]

Marvelous presentation. I have read about the Schneider trophy for years, and your delivery hit all the right highlights. Loved it and look forward to the series!

[@mpersad]

Another excellent video, with great use of archive materials. Top video.

[@oleran4569]

Absolutely fantastic video! Thank you!

[@jjfrunner]

Rex keep up the fantastic work, always love your videos, especially the long form content like the Douglas series

[@warrenjones744]

Great episode Rex. The aviation history of the 1930's is interesting stuff

[@Dr.K.Wette_BE]

Great documentary ! Well done Rex !

[@nikoszaxarias5200]

I wait with anticipation the cover of the Schneider Trophy, the very big leap forward for aviation in general. Great video, as always! Have a nice time.

[@johninnh4880]

I look forward to watching the Scheider Cup Race series!

[@SuperchargedSupercharged]

The STONES, by far the stones are the most impressive! Learned a lot this morning. Thank you for the long video!

[@oldieman730]

Great video, and looking forward to the mentioned series of videos to come.

[@briantomcollins]

This may not have much to do with this particular aircraft, but i've seen some of you crazy Brits stuffing WW1 biplane engines into tiny little vintage racers. As a hot rodder from the US, this absolutely fascinates me.

[@deckape714]

Well done Mac. hope your vacation goes well!

[@samrodian919]

Thank you for this very informative video Rex. You could have added that the actual Snider Trophy is ( or was the last time I went there) at the Royal Airforce Museum at Hendon and it's a pretty impressive bit of kit in its own right! Well worth a visit for any aircraft aficionado.

[@elitecol69]

As a US Military UFO dismantler, I found this video interesting.

[@wlewisiii]

Yawn. Find a more interesting way to troll.

[@rovercoupe7104]

What is a UFO dismantler?

[@salvagedb2470]

I built the SE 5 in the old Airfix polybag kit as a kid , I luv'd it ..mind you it didnt float well in the Bath..Great vid Rex..look forward to the Italians input especially the Machis .

[@davedoble3210]

Very good video. Thanks!

[@ericgoldstein4734]

Great documentary!!!

[@__-vb3ht]

Definitely looking forward to the series on the Schneider Trophy!

[@petertyson4022]

Amazing aircrafts. A very detail story. 👍👾

[@djowen5192]

Brilliant, I love calshot, so much hidden history.

[@Favk21]

I genuinely had no idea that the planes we see in Porco Rosso are so close to their real life counterparts: 5:42 and 6:17 😳 But given that Miyazaki probably is the president of aviation nerds, it really shouldn't come as surprise.

[@kitbag9033]

Excellent commentary, looking forward to more inter-war coverage

[@geoffburrill9850]

Thanks for great vid.

[@stefanusloloanpieterhutaba2744]

22:26 is the point where i laughed my ass off.

[@PaulMcKendrick]

Great content. Thanks

[@davidjames-rp6oi]

brilliant, a few of my family worked at supermarine, southampton

[@frankhaunter4291]

As always I appreciated the WH40k reference - praying to the machine spirit :)

[@devinhall3286]

I'm touring Italy right now and got to see the Macchi M.C. 72 which is currently housed at the Italian Air Force Museum. An absolutely gorgeous aircraft in her bright red paint with bronze radiators. After the races were over it set a new world speed record for piston powered float planes at 440mph (709 kph) that it still holds to this day. Would have been very interesting if it could have competed in the race.

[@esotericist]

my dad was in the RAF in WWII. He also went to the Schnieder Trophy race in questyion and I remember him showing me the race day programme into which he had written the lap times.

[@fringehead]

Such beautiful planes

[@Carstuff111]

Over 400 MPH with all of that drag..... Yes, the S.6 series and the MC-72 may have been sleek for their day, but that is still A LOT of drag to contend with on both planes, and the fact they pushed both planes past 400 MPH is mind boggling. And all done without computers... And yet people think we can't do anything with out a computer today.

[@gherkinisgreat]

It's more to do with degrees of precision, trying to make a modern jet engine with manual machining would be impossible

[@wlewisiii]

With fixed pitch props at that.

[@mpetersen6]

Plus if somebody tried to develop a modern analog it would need a 10 year development program. Especially if the developer is sucking on the government teat. One advantage the Supermarines had was the R engine was generally much larger in displacement with out being that much bigger overall than other engines such as the Curtiss D-12 or Conqueror. The D-12 was around 1100 CID/18 Liters and the Conqueror was 1570 CID/25.74 Liters. The R type was 2240 CID/37 Liters.

[@mpetersen6]

​@@gherkinisgreat It would not necessarily be impossible. But it would be much more labor intensive in terms of actual physical work an manhours. Turbine blades would need to be machined using master patterns and tracing machinery. Either milling machines or something similiar to a Blachard type tracing lathe.

[@philliprobinson7724]

Hi. Excellent historical video, many thanks. P.R.

[@ianbell5611]

Brilliant Thank you

[@mothmagic1]

I love the innovation involved in these aircraft. The S6 was basically a flying radiator in an effort to manage the engine temperature. The S6B also had the port float moved out by 8 inches to help handle the torque reaction.

[@ker-klickchoom5119]

One other book that would be worth adding to your recommended reading - the Haynes book on the S6B covers the development of the entire series, particularly the lessons learned from each one and how they were all incorporated into the S6B, in depth - imo it's one of the best books in the entire Haynes series, and a fantastic read for anyone interested in these racers!

[@kinghousebd4748]

Reginald Mitchell was my uncles great great grandfather (according to his side of the family) haven’t been able to verify it for certain but his grandparents told him and they have the same last name and their heritage family home is the same place where Mr. Mitchell either grew up or lived during his later years

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

Great video, Rex...👍

[@roughneckwolf]

What an utterly beautiful and graceful looking aircraft. The nose-on view looks like a razor slicing through the air. Thank you for covering these aircraft! (but my favourite is still the r3c-2 ;P)

[@blue2sco]

You've got the ending wrong, the Type R was developed into the Griffon, the clue was in the 37 Litre engine size. While the Merlin is only of 27 Litres and had nothing to do with the Schneider races hence PV12 for Private Venture. The Griffon only came about later in the 1940's since it's own development was put on hold due to the issues with the Merlin and greater production output was needed.

[@marcosfernandez7207]

Great video, great planes and great men that pushed aeronautical engineering to its possible limits.

[@plflaherty1]

Great vid!

[@167curly]

That was a very thrilling era in the late 20s and early 30s for Britain which was sinking into the Depression, increasing labour troubles, and the bureacratic mire of the government. Lady Huston was a charismatic person who even illuminated her private yacht with a sign expressing her unvarnihed opinion of Prime Minister Ramsey McDonald!

[@verysilentmouse]

Love your work lol praying to the machine spirit

[@malcolmcarter1726]

Absolutely brilliant! This is one of the best vids you have done so far. My father took me to the science museum when I was but a wee nipper, and I will never forget how enthralled I felt upon casting my eyes on the S6B with the beautiful Schneider trophy on open display in front of and between the floats of R J Mitchells winning masterpiece. Emotive stuff indeed. I thank you Sir.

[@entitygames9751]

I’d love to see a full video on the Merlin engine and it’s development, great video as usual btw

[@larryweitzman5163]

Great video!!!

[@judet2992]

Seems like it doesn’t matter what type of engine you’re building, if you modify it to run on premium and zip along, you’re gonna have explody bits. Same thing happened to the Rocketdyne F-1 as did the Merlin-R

[@marckyle5895]

I see a lot of ads in the plane magazines for assorted repurposed plane bits. Key tags for your fob, aluminum squares mounted on a picture of the noseart of the plane it came from. I heartily approve of R.E.C. doing this with class. I look forward to seeing the video on the Macchi M.39. That cowling looks like it's barely holding back the beast pounding away inside!

[@SAS1122334455]

can you please create video about that Schneider cup, its rules and how it was organized?

[@markpatterson4917]

Superb video

[@wilsonli5642]

This video really makes me want to watch Porco Rosso again and see how many familiar profiles I can pick out 😁

[@sensumcommunem4364]

Excellent research and presentation. Imagine reviving the Schneider Cup starting in NZ, moving to AUZ, then BRT, US?

[@RaFrost]

the Schneider trophy is on display in London. its a beautiful sculpture.

[@GARDENER42]

£100,000 in 1931 is equivalent to £5.5 million today. That was one heck of a donation by Lady Houston.

[@JTA1961]

Thanks for doin the math

[@GARDENER42]

@@JTA1961 Bank of England online inflation calculator. 😉

[@gordonwallin2368]

Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

[@Boss-Possum]

I usually skip the ad placement but I do love me a good watch 👍

[@mattbite]

You may be interested in another interwar aero competition: Challenge International de Tourisme, held between 1929-1934. While it was centered around development of ultimate "tourist" or general aviation aircraft, it greatly influenced concerns about wing's mechanization. Main rivals were Poland with their RWD series and Germany, which developed Bf 108 Taifun for the challenge.

[@gabrielcatani9317]

Ya estoy esperando el video con la historia de la copa!

[@wafflesnfalafel1]

nice - awesome vid