The Raf Simons Calvin Klein Era

[@indoora]

Because of where I work I was able to find out about the business side of his tenure at CK. Basically he was hemorrhaging PVH's money and they were not able to turn this around.

[@FashionRoadman]

Yup! When I was reading financial reports to make this video I found out that PVH said it had invested as much as $70 million into the Calvin Klein rebrand under Simons, with much of that money going to the 205 collection. The brand reported earnings of $121 million that quarter, down from $142 million the previous year. So from the start it was already a financial liability and it just got worse and worse with every season. Eventually, damage control was necessary. The way he ran CK was just expensive in general like the huge licensing fees for all the movies and Andy Warhol prints.

[@indoora]

@@FashionRoadman His contract was for 6 million but he was not able to justify this salary or a reason to keep him.

[@FashionRoadman]

@@indoora this is very true. I think they had almost decided from the start that the mass market direction would be better financially. It takes so long to change a brands position and sometimes a lot of money which of course they did not want to blow on a project which is understandable.

[@liu2k]

Love the Raf CK205 work and I continue to collect pieces whenever I see my sizes in good prices!

[@WastedTalent369]

Facts

[@allanmanzanares3119]

That first Raf Simons's collection for Calvin Klein was groundbreaking for me. I enjoyed every single moment. Raf knows how to create an experience when he presents a collection: Sterling Ruby details, Cigarettes After Sex soundtrack, the excess of plastic, the fitted and raw Helmut Lang-esque denim treatment = divine. One of my top 10 collections ever.

[@mattmcjagger2582]

The RAF/Calvin had a lot of hype especially using the Kardashians, A$AP Rocky, Millie etc on their ads. They did not appeal to average Calvin Klein client who love basics. It was very high end fashion and hypebest. The cowboys boots and western shirts were clear standout and pieces

[@CharlieBrownPTL]

Calvin Klein had always been in the luxury market with the line then called "Calvin Klein Collection" (similarly Michael Kors has "Michael Kors Collection" dedicated to luxury which is also the same runway shows we see every year, but both MK and CK are mostly known for their mass market products). Raf was simply supposed to be the next creative director for that line, and he changed the name to 205W39NYC (which was a bad idea because nobody could memorize it). However, the formation of the contract somehow turned him into a CCO who also oversaw other marketing decisions (to my belief, Anna Wintour had a say here, and she oversold Raf a little bit). He's a designer, and by far not a marketing strategist, and especially not for a pretty fast fashion brand, so that's why everything failed. The prices did not have any big impact because CK already sold such expensive items before, which were also not intended for the majority of its clients and did not perform financially well. The new owner PVH already wanted to scrap it altogether, but other stakeholders (including possibly Wintour) must have wanted to give it the final shot.

[@bodincastell1263]

Yes, definately feel it was being given another shot and a very public one as all eyes were on it, and in turn its end. Not sure about you but it felt rather planned, too many clues there including the quote from Calvin Klein himself (when he saw the flagship store after Stirlings make over/under) which said it all. Thinking ... if you want to close a brand, or part of a brand what better way that to basically, A: let the world know you have the 'greatest' designer lon board B: give them a blank cheque and carte blanche C: destroy everything, so it can be rebuilt, masonic chaos and order D: pull the plug at the right time and making some lame excuses about 'sales' when all this was being witnessed, advised and orchestated by the highest levels from the off. Great way to kill a brand, whist also being an amazing opportunity for experimentation and total creativity from the designer. His aesthetic at CK is still hugely evident in his work today, in my opinion.

[@FashionRoadman]

I'm very aware of Calvin Klein's luxury line but it was such an insignificant part of the brand at the time when Raf Simons took over - just them having a line dedicated to luxury doesn't mean much when it's barely selling. It not selling shouldn't be much of an issue as most luxury brands make most of their money from accessories and cosmetics but the issue is Calvin Klein Collection had such little visibility. It's the visibility that helps push this luxury aspirational story that helps brands sell the cheaper items. This is why they hired Raf Simons in the first place and paid him a fortune. Why I think the prices were a big factor is because the luxury line they had before Raf, (Calvin Klein Collection) was barely selling hence... Calvin Klein wanted a larger stake in luxury + needed to bring more visibility to their runway collections and believed it needed a big-name designer to get it. This is why they parted ways with Francisco Costa, it was also because they wanted to change the brand direction in a way that from the top down, everything would be seen as more luxury and the marketing would be unified across all lines. How do they expect anything to change if the prices of the luxury line remained higher than competitors that are considered more luxury than Calvin Klein? You'd have to go all the way back to the 90s to see the great Calvin Klein runway collections (looks modelled by Kate Moss and Cindy Crawford come to mind), the brand did not keep the same momentum with their luxury line on the runway into the 2000s with people like Francesco Costa (even though he has a few good moments) compared to current big names in fashion that maintained their luxury brand positioning. Calvin Klein bossed the runway from the 70s to the 90s but since then it just hasn't been the same. I would make the same points I made in the video about Michael Kors (that you mentioned). Less people will buy a $1500 Michael Kors Jacket from the runway when people associate the brand with outlet bags when alternatives at the same price are from brands like Balenciaga, Prada, Jil Sander, Gucci etc. It takes a long time to change a brand's positioning and once you go super mass market it's hard to go back to being seen as the luxury brand it was before the mass marketing push. The thing is Calvin Klein will be just fine, they make a killing selling underwear and denim. The whole point of this video is to focus on Raf Simon's CK project. It's not an overview of Calvin Klein itself.

[@FashionRoadman]

How the Raf Simons situation ended is basically an admission and acceptance by PVH that their only use for Calvin Klein is as a mass market brand which shows you how far the brand's "luxury" proposition has fallen. I wonder how many more jeans, perfume bottles and underwear they can sell until people get completely tired of it. Did the brand make huge losses when Raf was there - yes. They had two choices - go back to relying on the mass market branding of Calvin Klein or keep blowing through money with Raf in hopes that it would change.

[@CharlieBrownPTL]

@@FashionRoadman I think the people at the top of a fashion industry know so well that commercial products help maintain luxury projects and not the other way. Calvin Klein or PVH were certainly not so silly that they did not understand the luxury line would never be profitable. If what they wanted was Raf's big name, they got it, and he even gave the brand short-lived yet very significant creative materials that an ordinary designer or design team could never do. I think Raf was just too ahead of his time, so business people did not appreciate the artistic aspect of fashion enough. But this is changing now, companies like Michael Kors are still trying hard to prove a brand can have both luxury and mass market identities. Zara is the first fast fashion brand to be ditching its root and reposition itself higher. NFTs and metaverse put an emphasis on the artistic value of a design rather than its intrinsic value. CK will regret their decision to get rid of high fashion (on the wrong basis of financial performance) very soon.

[@CharlieBrownPTL]

Just circle back here to say the day they regret moving on from luxury has happened. Calvin Klein Collection is back

[@artapples8417]

Fashion Archive > Raf :) Loved this, it was really interesting and I learnt loads of small details. I'm a huge huge fan off Rafs CK205. The trousers stripes you said were a reference to sports crazes I would say are more a reference to the very ubiquitous Americana marching band stripped trousers which you see all over small town America in parades and pageants etc. Very minor point, but Wile E Coyote is Warner Brothers not Disney :)

[@FashionRoadman]

Great point. They do look very much like Marching band trousers. I have also seen similar stripes and designs on travelling suits of collegiate sports teams in the US which I know was a big theme throughout his time at CK.

[@EmmanuelTurner245225]

This channel fills a void I did not know I needed and has opened up an entirely new world for me. Thank you.

[@toad1694]

The pricing did make sense. Ck205 was a rebrand of Calvin Klein Collection which is their high end runway clothing. Ck205 prices were not meant to appeal to mass market. With that, ck205 designs were diffused and commercialized across their diffusion lines were one could find affordable pricing.

[@Leah-pv8wp]

dude thank you so much for all the work you put into these

[@neomaeos]

I personally loved Raf’s collections, and appreciated his interpretation of American pop culture. However, I do remember when I finally saw the prices it made me skeptical of buying anything from the collections. Although I knew the quality was probably superb (and 8/10 it was). I was confused to see him go but after your video and explanation it makes 100% sense. Now, I try to find as much of his 205 collections on the resale market but I noticed they still charge a pretty penny! On therealreal and Vestiaire collective there are dresses still 2,000+ so there still is somewhat a customer for 205. Great video 😌

[@alvinanis3006]

Raf at CK felt like the right appointment for the brand for the wrong audience, shame it didn't work since a lot of the collection pieces for huge sales at the end of his reign.

[@Thedivinedivauniverse]

I just wanted to say TY for this video I was always interested into why CK didn’t ‘work out’ for Raff

[@berivan56]

I would’nt be surprised if you tell me his collections were in 2022, it feels so new ! He was ahead of his time

[@lalc2883]

Great video. Tbh, his clothes at Calvin were, with what he did at Jil Sander, probably the best of his career. But for me overall the problem was that in terms of aesthetic, it was very much Helmut Lang (the NYC years) than Calvin Klein. It looked very much like Helmut Lang and didn't have the sensuality of Calvin despite being very much in the pragmatic spirit of American Fashion. Maybe Raf came in with this very Hedi Slimane mentality and believed that he could have been able to erase the past and make his version of Calvin Klein "THE CALVIN KLEIN" but Francesco Costa did wonderful things and the menswear designer who was there too. And about the why it didn't really worked. I would say Marketing and distribution. They were too ambitious to give the whole brand to Raf because he over-intellectualized Calvin. But the distribution for the CK205W39NYC line was weird. It should have been stocked in the best places ever from the first season, in a limited way. The prices were too high also. Ralph Lauren is an example of a brand that can do both. It's sold in all the malls and outlets around the world but the distribution of the Collection and Purple label lines is very exclusive. I miss that time of Raf. At Calvin at least, he designed intelligent and modern and desirable clothes...Unlike what he does at Prada and his own line nowadays.

[@now.mybook]

BRO! I loved this review for this collections!!.. BRAVO!

[@Majesticon]

so random you posted this, i just picked up a pair of glasses from his time there

[@Latinart]

As a Cal alumni and a fashion aficionado the university collection stole my heart.

[@PrincipalSkinner3190]

I blame the name and lack of rebranding for its downfall. There should have been something that clearly distinguished it as a luxury brand as opposed to regular CK.

[@jacqueyates1147]

This is a good insightful video but I'm not sure what to get out of it. Aesthetics aside was it just a bad fit where management ill nderstood what was happening? Or, RAF's made some poor career choices. So, the question is how do you make those choices ( design houses don't come without management teams) ?

[@Devananta-Rafiq]

Thank you for the video, Ayo. Now we need the Jil Sander's Raf video😁😁

[@fashionboyrobbychin]

I will cherish my CK 205 turtleneck and pink patent cowboy boots forever lol

[@kianlux1460]

thank you for all these knowledge man, keep going. Bless you 🙏🏻

[@avantgardster]

I miss ck205 era. It is really said that it ended so fast. I really disappointed with that…

[@indoora]

Personally I do not think his esthetic was good for CK. or Dior. He left both before the end of his contract and that says something.

[@rm6700]

I’m hoping he leaves Prada soon as well. Prada is a overlogoed, TikTok brand mess under him (well, Miuccia and Prada management is also to blame so let’s be fair).

[@daniellord-vera6987]

majority of ceo's are disconnected with the reality of fashion they expect quick returns they are usually investors with no knowledge of the company or minimal knowledge of the subject.

[@onleee]

such a great video! thanks man. Keep up the good woooork!

[@DemetriusJRoss]

I have two pieces from this collection. Supposedly, one is a sample that was made for ASAP Rocky.

[@Megaman.ExE7]

To my knowledge, they pulled the line because it was simply "too expensive" for their core audience, which translates to older people not understanding why Calvin Klein sweaters were marked at $1K and up. In addition to that, it really was a very gung-ho approach to re-shaping the original brands vision. Do I love it still? Yes, the knitwear was some of Raf's best work

[@musicenjoyer420]

Video has a ton of mistakes... most importantly the Matt Hooper reference? I feel the red beanie is a very clear reference to Jacques Cousteau, since he wore a red beanie, and Hooper wore a black one

[@OwnD1]

I feel the pricing would have worked if the marketing made sense. Something CK Reserve by Raf Simons would’ve been better than what they did

[@itstoohot]

incredible breakdown!!

[@hubbardlaluce3932]

He was before his time @ CK.... I know they hate they got rid of Raf

[@rm6700]

Spill the tea! Did the company make a counteroffer to win him back from Prada?

[@joshl.6982]

Calvin Klein had become H&M before H&M was even known to the world…there was no saving to a trash making brand once a brand gone down that path. Not even a master can save it. High fashion and K-mart clothing’s just don’t mix.

[@kuromiii4305]

I worked at Calvin Klein as a retail assistant during the past season before Raf Simons and during his very first collection and I hated the clothes :/ It was a total 180 and even our customers were confused by the whole aesthetic change. Not to mention, our new uniforms under raf were hideous and I was glad my contract ended soon after. Not saying he did a bad job, I just think he made the transition of the brand too abrupt.

[@chigal0926]

I was truly disappointed in Simmons time at Calvin Klein. I thought he was perfect for the brand; he failed miserably🤷🏾‍♀️

[@Anonymous-xm8ir]

Why?

[@indoora]

This is going to be a good video.

[@ntsakomathebula4840]

15:54 No way Raf said that corny ass line about the movie Jaws!?! 🤣😂😂😭

[@brvndxxxn]

It gives Walmart

[@ntsakomathebula4840]

@@brvndxxxn 100% Cotton

[@asmiley96]

I think you meant Sissy Spacek playing Carrie white

[@FashionRoadman]

Her full name is actually Mary Elizabeth Spacek. Sissy was more like a nickname given to her by her older brothers which kind of stuck.

[@jcg_001]

I think CK205 was/is the best work of Raf. Shame it was such a financial mess.

[@yokchew90]

The video is unavailable

[@yourfashionarchive427]

great video

[@alylopez3721]

it’s so funny to me that raf simons said “i think American youth is the future for this country”… like yeah no shit … thats just how time and growing up works 😅

[@edworldinmyhands1061]

who is mary elisabeth?

[@padraiccosta4644]

They should of gave Raf more of a chances at Calvin Klein his collection was fire 🔥 now they let heron Preston do what ever he wants at Calvin Klein just saying

[@tzegoh333]

It didn’t really work because it was European designs about America, and not American designs. Calvin Klein is very very American sportswear at its core, and they brought in someone who didn’t understand that at all.

[@puppppppppppuuuuu6205]

It didn’t work because it was bringing something very out of the box to a very standard and company whose audience was not attracted to this type of fashion. Raf’s take on Americana was genius and he was just about the only breath of fresh air that CK has gotten.

[@tzegoh333]

@@puppppppppppuuuuu6205 That’s what I said.

[@ALEJITA1721]

Genial

[@sleepysartorialist]

It's a really strange thing to see someone's extremely out of the norm take on my country's culture. It's not exactly a culture I gel with myself for lots of reasons but his designs were fun. Too bad about the financials tho.

[@wookong1723]

first!

[@henrylester4051]

Rubbish!

[@butler372]

The collections were stupid and awful!

[@Anonymous-xm8ir]

You didn’t understand them. Do you even by CK or the filtered down looks from the high street? If it’s the latter then I get why you can’t even think to appreciate an artist’s voice

[@andrezlopez658]

great video, leaned alot