The Ranch Fairy // Arrow Lecture

Here's a fun video from ElkShape Camp Texas 2022 - Troy Fowler aka Ranch Fairy lectures on characteristics of arrow penetration. We have nothing but respect for Troy and what he's trying to do to help archers and bowhunters. #ElkShape #RanchFairy
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[@jackbuendgen389]

Dude, hand loading arrows makes a MASSIVE difference! Groups get tighter. Accuracy goes up. Consistency goes up. Confidence goes up!

[@NPC-fl3gq]

Agree. The first time I ever designed and built my own arrows from scratch (and REALLY put a lot of care into making them) my groups got WAY tighter. I was shocked at the difference. I literally robin hooded an arrow (blew open the uni bushing and ruined more than an inch of the shaft) on my first end. From then on I stopped practicing at 20 yards. 30 is the bare minimum now, otherwise I destroy arrows every single time I practice.

[@jonesboyshunting8673]

Great job man. I watch the ranch fairy and I'm going down that road right now. My typical shot is less than 30 yards and 500 grains for whitetail. Building a few arrows and just getting high quality components and going to tinker with a single bevel this summer. Keep up the great work

[@gregortego806]

Great information. A lot of elk hunters discredit the Ranch Fairy, but he is pushing the boundaries, asking why along the way, and backing it up with data. I respect that bc it will ultimately make us better down the road.

[@ElkShape]

the fairy is a good dude!

[@16jduran]

It’s awesome when it’s explained in details!! Watching these videos gives me a better perspective and view on how to tune my arrows AND help myself to have a much better form on how to shoot my bow!! 👍🏻

[@ElkShape]

glad it helped!

[@jwopd]

I remember you and the shop owner bashing grandpas heavy arrows. I’m surprised he showed up here.

[@ericsmith5919]

It's pretty funny to hear the difference in tone when Ranch Fairy is in the room. "I just wanna say that he's not wrong about this stuff!"

[@WMBCS]

@@ericsmith5919he’s only right if flight time and arrow drop aren’t important

[@ericsmith5919]

@@WMBCS Yes, which means he's right.

[@kevindown1592]

I’m happy to see this video. I follow Troy & it takes me a couple of times to get some of his videos. Having him give a lecture where he knits all of his concepts together is very helpful. Thank you Elk Shape.

[@ElkShape]

Glad to help

[@scorchedearth1894]

@@ElkShape not gonna lie Dan, I was very hesitant to use a hinge. But I’m doing it now. And it’s definitely improving my shot process and I’m unlearning all my little bad habits. And I also switched to victory arrows. But I’m not ready to give up my VXR yet. Really love this bow. Thanks for giving Troy the shout outs. He’s a great dude and he deserves it.

[@williamworkman1468]

Love any time I see Dan and Troy together

[@trevordavies2789]

Thanks Dan, I like hearing all the technical aspects of archery and you definitely have the resources to help explain it all

[@robertbrowning9343]

Love it! I'm deep in the weeds myself. ABT always make sure you and your equipment are as proficient as possible when chasing any animal. Keep spreading the word brother 🤘

[@zachtylka6851]

The flat spot on his graph at 14:25 is because his data points are all spaced out evenly across the x-axis. The 514 grain arrow and 589 (75 grain difference) are spaced out the same as the 589 and 616 (27 grains). If the spacing was to scale, then the graph would be on a more linear line. Either way, great data and it's all worth considering, and for Pete's sake sharpen those daggon broadheads!

[@bigz5262]

Nice catch

[@timl8302]

I caught that a while back. I posted it on the video. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, that's how broadheads kill.

[@justaguy7997]

Great job guys, I really like all of the collaborative work. This kind of information is what every hunter should see and hear. Every person should make their own decision on what to use, but that should be done based on accurate and honest information. This video is fact over opinion. Thanks for sharing of the hard work and time spent in putting this together!

[@WillKarst]

Timely as heck video for me, my arrows are 505-520 depending on the nock, lumenocks are heavier. I'm sticking with it, heading to TAC in PA in two weeks and was about to build heavier arrows but after hearing this makes me confident to stick with it.

[@colbymcgary4339]

Thanks for putting this content out! Very informative!

[@raybship1]

I bare shaft tuned my arrows like the ranch fairy video said to and 2 years later 11 of 12 are still shooting darts! 1 went to Jesus after blowing through a deer. Could not be happier at 530 gr. with a single bevel.

[@JoseAlvarez-bv8xo]

Great video!! Got some really good info that explains some questions I've had and now I see the benefit of loading your own arrows. Thanks for posting these videos.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Awesome 👏 video on the basic mechanics of arrow flight, but also the killing physics when the broadhead delivery system gets there. All three of you love to help others succeed, which is evident by what you all do for the archery 🏹 hunting community. I have always appreciated Troy and what he tries to teach, after doing a lot of testing with some help of others. He was always preached “Perfect” arrow flight, structural integrity, and RAZOR SHARP broadheads, but some people only pick up the heavy mass and high FOC thing. Then bug archery 🏹 shops for those 100 grain inserts and 150-200+ broadheads that they don’t carry. He would you rather shoot a 450 grain arrow with a sharp 125 grain broadhead with perfect arrow flight than a 650 grain arrow with a dull broadhead that doesn’t fly right. 🏹🦌🐗🐻

[@davidholliday2703]

Gentlemen thank you for this collaboration, it was great. Coming together on common ground and respecting each person's area of expertise. Zero wound loss is the standard. Let's be willing to do what it takes to get there.

[@3C_Outdoors]

Outstanding. Very informative. Definitely opened my eyes.

[@ElkShape]

glad you enjoyed!

[@sthompson447]

Holy crap thank you for posting this.

[@richardwalrod9646]

I really enjoyed this seminar and I completely agree with the science. I’ve been reloading rifle ammo for years now, just getting started into arrow building. The part where the graph of all 3 data points that showed a moderate level area around the 580 grain weight got my attention. I’d imagine the barometric pressure, humidity as well as temperature can affect the flight of arrow, just as it does on a bullet wouldn’t you think. Although much slower and much longer than a bullet the atmospheric conditions would also affect arrow flight.

[@CFIRST58]

Thank You Elk Shape for making sure we get the very best information out there!! You Guys are the best I have ever found on the internet to help me improve my game. Great Video, and very much appreciated!!

[@ElkShape]

Thanks Craig!

[@bqoutdoors2334]

Awesome video

[@clintmurray3795]

Definitely trying to be a better archer! Only been at this a little over a year, so I'm very new! I shoot minimum 3 times a week. Every day when able, but this shit, this is the shit I love to geek out on!! I love the tinkering and playing around with different setups! Love it!

[@ElkShape]

ABT!!

[@realrussclarke]

Great video thanks for sharing

[@gmanking86]

Good stuff guys, damn good information.

[@stevenhicks815]

Great video!

[@ElkShape]

Thanks for the visit

[@jeremyhildebrandt]

I have a 3 day weekend this week guess I will be knock tuning. Thanks Dan.

[@brandonanderson1819]

You’ll be wasting your weekend then

[@guitarq359]

I’ll listen to this dude all day any day. Every time I think I understand arrow flight, he says something new and I feel dumb again.

[@nathanrobarge6970]

Respect

[@greatlakeshuntingandtracki5450]

Great video

[@dustinroberts3403]

Troy is looking stacked like Dan the fitness man! Great collaboration

[@larrygronholm435]

Dude is a fantasic salesman.

[@tyschliefert2569]

Vary good video agree with everything

[@steven_farmer89]

I know of Ranch fairy and his philosophy of high FOC, I am in the SVA camp of 13-15%. I think he is a good dude, but with his high energy it seems like he does a quick bump before talking. Enjoyed the video like always, Keep it up.

[@ApexPredatorOutdoors]

It's never easy going up in front of a crowd and giving a speech. Been doing it for years and it gets easier, but not easy. He seems to start with a lot of nervous energy.

[@steven_farmer89]

@@ApexPredatorOutdoors very true, it did seem like he settled into his element.

[@tat2dlukydevl]

LoL

[@twc6771]

There is with out a doubt that a heavy arrow is going to have more energy than a lighter arrow that is just the way it is and the longer the distance the more energy is maintained from the heavy arrow it's a individual decision him or her to determine what the arrow weight they want to shoot. Every one that is in the archery business/ bowhunting need to achieve the utmost in the tuning of your arrows light and heavy there is a lot of very good information that is being put out to the bowhunting public from Troy and it needs to keep on being put out.

[@ricardoruiz6612]

i do a lot of testing and i do exactly what the ranch fairy says he does on arrow builds. Yeah it takes a very long time to get them set up but I can say at the end of it all im very confidence in my setup. i build my arrows to fly with the big iron will broadheads on them and hit my 100 yard target . my arrows are total 610 grain. im a western hunter out in arizona so i have to take long shots and practice out to 125 . Great content .

[@mikeguy9668]

You don't hear of alot of people shooting that heavy at distance. Pretty cool in my opinion

[@WMBCS]

Check how long your time of flight is that deer could not only duck he could take 3 steps in the extra time heavy arrows fly

[@AnalogAssassin1]

2 of my favorite archers and guides to my archery journey

[@peterweikel7123]

I have my trad gear shooting great. For the first time in a decade I picked up a compound. My old arrows shoot great with 100g heads. I bought some new sticks going from 340 to 300 spine hoping to up point weight. It helped but not enough. They work well up to 175g but at 200g they walk with broadheads. I desperately hope that 250's will tame them back down or for now I may just have to live with the lower foc for this season

[@ApexPredatorOutdoors]

Been waiting for this Collab for some time now!

[@caninphx]

look at the fire nock system for finding the dynamic spine, pretty much eliminates nock tuning. it takes awhile to learn it though and stiffer spines are harder to find. but when I use it the arrows usually all hit the same. it's based off feel with your fingers and looking for the valley/dynamic bend in the arrow, you'll feel it in the resistance to twist the arrow. I bought one to try and was shocked at how much the dynamic spine on spine aligned arrows was different. on 250-200 spines it's very difficult to feel this though and I normally end up adding a bit more weight to bend the shaft enough to feel the valley (dynamic spine), sometimes I cannot find a dynamic spine (day six arrows are extremely tough as are victory vap ss in the 250 spine range).

[@dennisjnovotny1807]

Super interesting concept. I am looking into this. I just ordered Vap ss in a 250.

[@jblimkemann]

So, I've been studying this topic a lot, lots of videos, lots of tinkering, lots of experimentation. I WAS shooting Easton Axis arrows, 340 spine. I've stopped. I'm now shooting a 260 spine Axis arrow. My current build, which I'm extremely happy with, is a 29.5 inch arrow, 2" Blazer vanes, standard nock (lighted nocks throw off the FOC%), 75 grain brass insert, and 125 grain head. Total arrow weight is 545 grains and a 15.1 FOC. I could lighten the arrow some more but I'm not going too. I like where it is. But I haven't shot it through a chronograph, I just know it absolutely SMACKS my bulldog target and drives in deep.

[@jdonez8347]

What you boys recommend for a 29.5 inch arrow pulling 65 lbs, 100 grain muzzy. Contemplating 300 spine with a 100 grain insert and a nocturnal knock. Not sure about fletchings

[@camerannC]

My biggest take away is shot sharp quality broadheads and tune your whole set-up.

[@derrickross192]

If we're going have an honest conversation about bowhunting and being ethical... then we really need to focus on everything from the gear we carry, camo we wear, boots, having proper shooting technique, having a tuned bow, having a tuned arrow, having a razor sharp broadhead, basically everything about bowhunting applies. 100% of our focus and dedication should be towards ensuring that every bit of the our gear performs to the highest level. There's plenty of affordable gear, arrows, and broadheads to use. Just like you say... separation is in the preparation. ... and I fully agree with that. We shouldn't discredit anyone just because they're more prepared than us or they do things in a different and effective way. I could understand ignoring ineffective tactics... but if it works and gives you a greater chance of a harvest? There's nothing bad to say. With the pros and cons for yourself and apply all the tactics that will give you the best chance. We are trying to succeed in bowhunting right??????? I don't pay all this money, do all this work, just to sit there and stare at a deer or animal and pass a shot up because I'm using inferior systems. I'm here to succeed and go home with a cooler full of meat.

[@bobtosi9346]

For whatever reason so many people have been adamant about the Ranch Fairy’s work with Ashby and high foc. It’s puzzling really. At this point I don’t understand all of the concept but as an Engineer I understand what Troy is explaining. Some many people want to hate on the concept. How can you argue with dead pigs and necropsy that shows shattered bones? Animals move so yes we plan for the sweet spot but if the critters jump and the arrow cuts the humorous off it ain’t going anywhere.

[@h2olove]

I'm a new archer and it is SO TRUE! You need to learn to shoot properly before diving into the weeds. At the moment, I'm shooting about 1 out of 3 arrows correctly. I'm torqueing the bow somehow the other 2 out of 3 time. I'm pretty sure my draw length is about 1/2 an inch too long. But with all those things going wrong, I'm still getting decent arrow flight. I started with heavy arrows that match my set-up. My arrows are about 590 grains with an FOC near 17%. They are flying pretty good. Until I learn to stop torqueing the bow when I shoot, paper tuning and nock tuning are not going to help me. My grip is injecting more variability than these other factors.

[@fattybourgeois1014]

I bet it's your grip

[@sneakybuffalo]

The flat spot he points out is simply because those two points have the smallest difference in grain weight

[@wayneshears5884]

Interesting. It wasnt that long ago you and your buddy at Spokane Vally Archery were inadvertently running Troy through the mud.

[@deltaskelta9346]

If you notice he did here too.

[@jacobflowers8607]

While I agree with the logic but it’s very subjected to the area where you hunt. I’ve built arrows that are in the heavy range , what I found was in areas that are heavily wooded the trajectory can be an issue. So my balance to maintain weight and keep my arrow out of the trees , is to be around 450-470 mark.

[@davidhoward7691]

Wow. That sounded like a real scolding lecture.

[@heyoka01]

Great comment by Dan. I work with physics and understand ballistics, reload my brass and dial in my arrows the same way. I continuously tune every part of my shot whether it is rifle or bow to make those perfect. I also shoot about 50-100 arrows a day on most days, bad days I walk away because I don't want to build bad habits out of frustration. My practice shots are 40, 60, 80, and finish with 100 yard shots and I'll tell you, the penetration I get with the heavy arrows at those distances are deep in the compressed mats, deeper than my friends shooting 470 g arrows. What about speed? I take down more animals than they do so I don't stress about the speed like they do. I know that the arrow will break bones and about 90% of the time pass through even after breaking a bone. But in the end, you have to practice your form, focus on your shot, make yourself uncomfortable by standing on awkward ground, kneel, crouch, stand by the bushes and trees, shoot without a range finder occasionally and learn your bow. I shoot Hoyt Rx-4 Ultra 72lbs, 28.5" draw, Axcel single pin, four fletched 2 degree right helical arrows at 616 or 634 g arrows.

[@cray-z7404]

I shoot a crossbow & I don't believe I would feel comfortable shooting a deer at 100YARDS... I know they say if you practice at 80yards then when a deer comes in at 40 -50 yards its a piece of cake basically !!! I would love to be able to shoot a 🦌 at 60 , 80 , 100YARDS ...

[@heyoka01]

@@cray-z7404 Always train for distances further than you are willing to dispatch an animal but also only shoot what you are comfortable with. It is good that you already know your comfort level. Most yahoos are out there shooting far out of their range and chase a deer or other animal for hours because they only wounded it.

[@cray-z7404]

@@heyoka01 I have a friend who shot at a doe at a 120 yards with a AEA .72cal zues pcp air rifle shooting way more fps than any crossbow & the doe ducked his shot so I know my chances of a deer jumping the string , ducking my arrow is high at anything over 40 yds !

[@RobertWilliams82-22]

Everyone knows that heavier is more productive when talking about penetration power… it’s easily explained by the fact that it’s harder to stop a 18 wheeler then it is to stop a Prius…. So yeah troy is right about that… is all that research he did really necessary to explain that? In my opinion, no.. but that’s just my opinion… we also all know that you don’t need to shoot 300 fps to kill a deer or elk, woman do it with 45# bows every year…. BUT extra weight and more speed does help… like Arron Snyder says ( who I don’t necessarily agree with on everything) there’s a happy median, but against troy, it’s not a set number… idk if he realizes it or not, but even though Arron’s arrows feel into the range, the data he had on that line graph was only representing a 29” draw (I think the title said 29)… that number will change as the bow changes (draw length, brace height, poundage, let off, and so on)… you gotta find what works best FOR YOU… I personally add weight to my arrows and shoot 70#’s… but I make that determination from how the bow shoots within my preferred speed range of 260-285… as bows IBO’s get faster, the heavier my arrows will get.

[@nicetryb0z0]

This is an important thing that's often missed, how many other things vary from person to person than just the arrow they choose to build. Helping my sister get into archery opened my eyes to how much difference there is between different shooters with varying weight and draw length

[@sharpoutdoors3368]

My only complaint with the RF claim is going through shoulder with a good enough setup. I know people get lucky and what not with blowing a shoulder but it's not consistent I shot a whitetail at 70 yards with a 30-06 and it lived to see another day.

[@mikenutto396]

This was what, I like to see, honest discussion. I will say this, and I think it has been taken out of perspective, that suddenly we need 800 grain arrows to kill deer and elk. Bow hunting is a journey, in discovering, so many things. I have been shooting a bow since I was 5 years old, and if I knew where it would have taken me, the journey has never stopped. I see so many of us arguing, as opposed to coming to common ground. The internet seems to have bred that! What I've taken away from all of this is learning to tune my bow and my arrows and to shoot to become a better archer overall. I think we need to focus on being better at what we do and how we speak on subjects.

[@matthewholmes8638]

Call Dorge Huang at Firenock. He helped develop the hell fires and is a rocket scientist who loves archery. His aerovane 2's use spin from lift not spin from drag which is what you get with helical.

[@Trickydickysticky]

The only thing i would point out is that when calculating the "sweet spot" you should add some factor for trajectory. A flatter trajectory is always beneficial, i agree you should have enough proficiency that it is worth less than penetration- however once youve achieved full penetration in an animal any additional slug/ke is wasted in the dirt. You may as well bank on a flatter trajectory after you know your arrow is lethal enough. And... i want that big pvc arrow. I want to throw it at things, use it to point at things- i could get alot of use out of something like that.

[@ObamaOsucksOass]

What broadhead sharpening system does ranch fairy use?

[@olpeener]

He works with Sirius archery. They have sharpening stuff on their website.

[@noahlongoria5329]

Since when did everyone become archery coaches? 🤣 I’ve been shooting my Mathews Switchback Xt for 7 years only thing I’ve ever replaced were the strings and cables. I shoot arrows right out of the box cut to my length. And I’ve shot the same setup for Elk, hogs, whitetail, axis, and a few South African game animals. Shoot what makes you happy and what works for you!!

[@joeyfuentes1051]

Man I fully agree lol I have also shot whatever arrow was readily available and it always works just fine as long as I make a decent shot lol

[@noahlongoria5329]

@@joeyfuentes1051 I shoot all store bought stuff man! I put my bow together for about 145 bucks I laugh at these guys running 8”-20” stabilizers and paying 300 for a drop away. I shoot TAC yearly and never change anything but my sight 😂

[@Lucas-jy7cv]

Yea I agree but it sure is satisfying to build a dozen arrows yourself

[@noahlongoria5329]

@@Lucas-jy7cv Done everything possible, 4 fletched, single bevel, right helical, left helical, 6 fletch, feather fletched for my recurve. Shit does the exact same thing from the store. I’ve built dozens and dozens of arrows and I’ve built a couple bows for people. The store bought shit performs the exact same way. There is never a difference in groupings, flight pattern, weight difference when I build an arrow and when I buy them from the store. Trust me, you should see the looks I get when I’m shooting TAC with a 15 year old bow and everyone’s rig is 5x the cost of mine 😂. In the end game, it’s all about the man behind the bow. I laugh at these guys having to upgrade every year. I understand these new bows shoot fast and what not but they’ll never compare to my XT.

[@huntermazzio713]

@@noahlongoria5329 seems like you got it all figured out! Guys don’t “have” to upgrade every year but can afford it and choose to do so because it’s fun to tinker with shit…no need to laugh and be a hater

[@mattmeidl2996]

Couldn’t the loosening of field points and broadheads be because if you’re putting a left helical fletching on an arrow after bare shaft clocking and all inserts are right hand thread. Arrow does however many revolutions from point A to point B spinning left and tips turn in to the left. May have something to do with it

[@jcarry5214]

Mine come loose really often and I only shoot right helical. And they come loose way more often if I'm shooting a bag vs foam, lord knows why.

[@d500mag2]

First of all, impact does have something to do with it. Think impact wrench or using a hammer to "warm" a stubborn nut or bolt up. Second, the arrow is spinning, at impact, that spin applies a twist (or tries to) to whatever media you are shooting. Once the arrow stops, the media will try to untwist. Third, friction, friction produces heat. Most everything, except heat shrink, expands with heat. Inserts, field points and broadheads will have some expansion. Add to the mix that they are usually different materials with different expansion rates.

[@anthonylubic]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏻

[@SurfdogTV]

When Ranch Fairy says to nock tune your bare shafts, does he do it with a field point or the broad head that will be on that arrow for life?

[@montuckyman4982]

Field point. Don't try it with broadheads unless you want some excitement.

[@davidholliday2703]

He does say you should shoot your broadheads. Designate one for practice.

[@SurfdogTV]

After I posted the question I realized I wasn’t thinking it thru….you can’t nock tune thru paper with a BH. The paper hole would be unreadable 🤣

[@davidholliday2703]

@@SurfdogTV . Yes sir.

[@jonbhorton]

when bareshaft never put on a BH - that's wings on the front with nothing on back. Bareshaft with FP and nock tune both with bareshaft and fletch. Once they are consistent, that's when you BH tune a fletched arrow.

[@gordie4059]

Lol, at the dude trying to pass the arrow around pointy end out.

[@kavak1344]

Lol, I Carry a sharpener with me at all times, always have for my blades

[@mattpetway6606]

I'd like to see these comparisons against the downrange stats from Archers Advantage or Pinwheel software.

[@haroldbleemel8537]

Seems like not that long ago you were anti-Ranch Fairy lol (you may not have been but it sure seemed that way). Glad to see you guys working together to further archery hunting. Now, is it September yet?

[@ObamaOsucksOass]

Very informative. The Ranch Fairy is correct, the math does not lie. And he is extremely intelligent to put this together. But at what point does it become overkill. How much do you actually need to kill an elk. Nilgai are slow, elk are fast. Whitetail are shot at 20-30 yards, elk are shot at 20-60 yards. Very different animal characteristics. There have been thousands of elk killed with a 400 to 450-grain arrow. There have been a lot of elk killed with a 650-grain arrow. At what point does it become Overkill? If you shoot a very heavy arrow that will blow through any elk that stands still, great. But if you have an elk that takes 2 steps and you've misjudged the yardage and you shoot underneath the elk by 2' does it really matter, you just missed because of trajectory and distance misjudgment? If all you shoot is really close distances or a slow lumbering African animal I think a heavy arrow has a lot of merit. I like to shoot at a 100 plus yards, that isn't going to happen with the 680-grain arrow If you're looking for optimal bow setups why don't you carry a 30" stabilizer to the elk woods with a 15" back bar and 26 oz of weight on the bow?? That is optimal for accuracy. Or is it too inefficient to carry that much weight and that long of bars on your bow. Why not shoot a 100# bow instead of a 70# bow for elk? It'll produce way more kinetic energy and momentum. Dan did a really Interesting video not too long ago testing out different arrow weights and arrow drops over distance. Very informative. With all of that being said, I did learn a lot. For one thing, I just bought some RIP TKO's from Dan through ElkShape.com. I will be nock tuning each and every one of them. Keep up the good work Dan and RF!

[@JLUnit416]

I watch Ranch Fairy, but don't necessarily subscribe to everything he preaches. That said, I've noticed, during interviews, I've noticed for all the pushback he's been receiving, he seems pretty open and reasonable to compromise.

[@tjburke7115]

I'll stick with my 450gr setup! Never had a problem with penetration. I'd rather have speed than an arrow that takes 3-5 business days to get to the animal. I've bowhunted for 26 years now and tried alot of different setups. The 440-450gr area is what works best for me in hunting situations!

[@ElkShape]

3-5 business days... HAHA... that made me laugh out loud! -Dan

[@HuntsT]

Better not hunt on the last Wednesday of the season. Shit ain’t showing up for a week. Situation turns from hunting, to poaching.

[@mikehigginbotham7547]

I agree and I shoot a 420 grain arrow and never had a problem and I shoot expandable broadheads my brother did the heavy arrow setup last year and missed 3 nice bucks due to miss judging the yards because of how slow the arrow was

[@michaelcancilla9539]

@@mikehigginbotham7547 that’s the arrows fault right?

[@tjburke7115]

@@mikehigginbotham7547 the problem I ran into with the "heavy arrow setup" (600gr) was the arch at futher ranges. How many times in the woods do u have a fully clear shot without obstructions like limbs, etc? Here in the south it's thick in most places and u have to pick your shots alot of times. I want a flatter trajectory arrow and I didn't have that with a heavier setup. No doubt about it, a heavier setup will penetrate better but I never had that issue with a 440-450gr setup. I don't see the point in it for whitetails. It's kind of like putting a condom on before u go to sleep. There's no need for it! To each their own! We're in this together and I'm not gonna judge anyone for their setup. If it works for u than I'm all for it but this is my 2 cents about it! Good luck to yall! Hunt safe and Turn'Em Red 🤙

[@termite122]

im shooting solid glass bowfishing arrows this yr screw it..3200 grains baby! blowing thru engine blocks!

[@stephenballard3759]

Back in the day a guy writing in Traditional Bowhunter Magazine used to do that: shooting solid fiberglass arrows out of a wood longbow. He blew through everything. I remember him shooting a mountain goat, deer and elk, bison, etc. 100% pass-throughs.

[@jasonwandling4203]

Why is the guy in the back wearing a Bino harness?

[@twc6771]

I the individual that is bowhunting puts his or her time in tuning your gear shooting the bow as much as one can possibly do it doesn't matter what weight of arrow that he or she decides to use enjoy the outdoors and introduce as many young people that you possibly can to the outdoors it will make this world a better place in the long run for sure.

[@davidvalentine9392]

Hands down one of the best damn videos period!!!! Awesome!!!

[@gregshirek4680]

14:30. Rocketman should know that your horizontal x-axis scale is poorly plotted. You have same scale distance between each arrow weight. You need to plot arrow weights on same linear scale. You have 27 grains between those 2 arrows whereas other arrow weights are 80ish grain difference

[@bogg54]

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@veteranlifeoutdoors9381]

Great video! It’s hard to argue with proof and numbers.

[@timl8302]

I think.bare shaft tuning each arrow helps things in the long run. It's a PITA. But, it's basically, onetime & done. Unless you change your setup. One thing is, it helps you sort your arrows. You may get one or two arrows out of a dozen that simply doesn't want to to tune. You just have to mark them & use them as stump shooters or something. But, at least you know not to put them in a quiver with a broadhead. Knock/bare shaft tuning has nothing to do with cutting the arrows. Unless you're working with a trad bow. It is turning your knock a little in increments to get it to shoot inline with the other arrow. Thanks for the video. I think we're all on the same page. But, a little off between 500 to 650gr. But all want people to work on their arrow flight & arrow tuning.

[@theincredible9168]

MFJJ killed an elk through bone with a 400 grain arrow. I just got a pass through on a whitetail doe through the SPINE at 30 yards with a 372 grain arrow, 24.5% FOC, 4 blade MECHANICAL. Maybe it was luck. But I know on the Ashby study arrow weight is last for a reason.

[@joshc1291]

Troy seems like a cool dude

[@brianmincher716]

I’ve met him, he’s cooler than the other side of the pillow.

[@ShepherdOutdoors]

Couldn’t you just use locktite on the threads of the broad head to make sure it would not screw out? Could use blue if you wanna be able to unscrew it with some force or red and it wouldn’t come out unless you heated it up

[@ElkShape]

you certainly could

[@WilliamAM43]

Plumbers tape. Been doing it for years and works great.

[@adamshreckengost3586]

A little bit of string wax on the threads and they will stay tight all season 👍

[@pik2490]

I get what he is saying and I believe the science behind it. I can get behind a sharp fixed blade broad head, and foc making your arrow steer better. I don’t see a true benefit of shooting heavy arrows. I, in the last year shot 2 rams, a white tail, and a wild boar. Clean pass through on each of them. None of them went more than 20 yards. I used the same 365 grain arrow on each of them. Why am I getting the same results as what he is getting? 🤷‍♂️

[@brianmincher716]

Because you were a bit lucky, and have a ton of skill. I used to think speed was king and shot the lightest fastest setup I could, until I shot a hog at 10 yards with a setup that had blown thru everything just like you described, but I hit the shoulder instead of the ribs and watched her run off with about two inches of arrow in her. When they spin, or duck, or god forbid you make less than a perfect shot, that’s when the heavier setup all of a sudden makes a ton of sense. He calls them “plan B” arrows, and fwiw, since moving to 625 grains and right at 19% FOC, I’ve had nothing but pass thrus, even on the heaviest bodied hogs.

[@michaelcancilla9539]

was it actually a boar or a sow? Because any decent sized boars shield is gonna laugh at that arrow. When I say decent size I mean 175+.

[@brianmincher716]

@@michaelcancilla9539 that one years ago with the light arrow was a sow. That experience started me down the path to heavier arrows, during which I came across and eventually met Troy. Since going to my current setup I’ve passed thru about half a dozen boars from a variety of different angles both out of a stand and on the ground. Sometimes hitting heavy bone, sometimes not, but always getting two holes in the pig, which I most definitely was not getting on hogs with the lighter setup.

[@michaelcancilla9539]

@@brianmincher716 I was replying to OP. I think a lot of deer hunters underestimate hogs. Which is where that 600 range has it place. I don’t run my setup that heavy because I deer hunt as well but if I had a setup strictly for big hogs I’d be running 650+. Although I did blow through a nice boar probably pushing 200, last fall with a 520 grain setup.

[@brianmincher716]

@@michaelcancilla9539 Roger that, and good deal on that boar! I don’t hunt hogs exclusively, but I do hunt them most often, and I want something that will blow thru them from any angle. I’m running 625 grains at 19% FOC and passing thru everything, 150 grain cut throat single bevels up front sharp enough to shave with and they fly like a dream out till I run out of site tape around ninety yards or so.

[@PhotoBob]

Ill shoot a light arrow simply bc Ranch Fairy annoys me so bad

[@shooter2843]

I bet Troy left with lots more believers than ElkShape did.

[@darcyfloreani9722]

Great video again. Knowledge is power. In archery you have to give up something to gain something else.

[@cameroncunningham687]

Doesn’t MFJJ say there is no point in bare shaft tuning if your shooting a fixed blade broad head? just need to broad head tune that shows you if your arrows are flying good or not.

[@robertsophiea05]

I shoot axis arrows but built an fmj for fun. It is 30 grains heavier than the axis but hits with the axis out to 70 yards. (Possibly further) I was under the impression the slightest variance was bad. I don't worry anymore.

[@perrymerkes7693]

maybe for long range we need to be shooting aluminum !!

[@aaronward3882]

No matter how hard you try you cant break the laws of physics.

[@brockpeck7073]

Awesome to see you three guys together speaking!

[@ElkShape]

Hope you enjoyed it! I like Troy a lot - he's coming on the podcast soon to chat further! Appreciate the support. -Dan

[@brockpeck7073]

@@ElkShape I'll have to watch out for that podcast! Sorry to say I started watching troys channel first then started watching elk shape. I love both channels!

[@jeromymixon11]

the light arrow loses 12% at 60 yards, but is still faster than the heaviest arrow out of the bow by 37 fps. I would rather be throwing a baseball from the out field over a shotput. there's a reason why the Indians got away from the atlatl after 2000 years and went to a bow and light weight arrow compared to a spear/atlatl. there's only 2 people are pumping this information, it caught traction 30 years ago from ashby then went away like a fart in the wind, because a 2 yard misjudgment at 30 yards is 6" of drop with a heavy arrow

[@ashleysmith4191]

From all my non scientific testing, around 7gr per pound for an arrow weight is about the absolute perfect happy spot where you get awesome penetration, speed and maintain a predictable trajectory. My only issue with going massively heavy is that in real hunting situations, NOT feeder shots on pigs, you’re rarely looking at a clean path of flight.

[@michaelrosa5410]

The more you think about it, every arrow does have a slight difference from another. Hence why years ago we started numbering arrows. The energy charts were amazing. Why not wring every last drop of nastiness from our set up’s ? In the old days, we just upped our poundage to 80 pounds. How lethal now would be 80 pound arrow charted out to the happy medium on the chart ? With the advancement of technology being as it is, the next generation of archers will have these apparatuses @ their fingertips when setting up their bows. It will become part of the bow set up process for the better pro shops to set a bow up from jump street as deadly as it can be. Might cost a bit more, but you’ll get what you pay for. @ 63 I’ll be gone from the game, but I see this as the future for any arrow on any type of bow as a full complete part of the tune.

[@ryanr6656]

597 here

[@nathanschnier2886]

The concept of dropping poundage to get an arrow to fly better, is a case of a weak shaft.

[@jons7e]

math 🤯

[@hunt2hook712]

Yup until a deer ducks your arrow at 30 yards because your 550 grain arrow flies too slow….it’s happened to me and I’ve seen it happen to other people my 455 grain arrow will blow through almost everything and it’s fast=tiny pin gaps and speeds that don’t allow the deer to duck nearly as much

[@brianmincher716]

The math/physics don’t match the anecdotes here, but if what you are doing is working, that’s great.

[@MrBanolicious]

If people can kill deer with a trad bow, I’m not worried about deer ducking an arrow out of my bow.

[@d500mag2]

Funny, I have seen deer stand like a statue for a bad shots from rifles. If your bow is making that much noise, fix it, it's broke. Now a close enough bullet or loud fletching, that deer is gone with the wind.

[@josephr1198]

We can do math and figure out time difference, (estimate because drag is hard) Because a bow and arrows KE doesn't really change 75lb 340 ibo bow with 455 grains about 309 fps Same bow with a 550 grain arrow about 281 fps 30 yards is 90 feet 90/309= .29 seconds time of flight 90/281= .32 seconds time of flight A deer is not moving half of its body width in .03 seconds at free fall, something will only move .17 inches in .03 seconds In .29 seconds at free fall something will fall 16.23 I ches and in .32 seconds it will fall 19.76 inches 3.5 inches of difference over the entire flight of the arrow, in free fall, in a vacuum, with air resistance the number is less, plus it doesn't factor in reaction time, and assumes the deer is falling the same second the arrow leaves the bow. Anyways, the math doesn't back up your claims of the heavier arrow being the cause from a speed perspective. Anyways there's some sloppy math.

[@brianmincher716]

@@josephr1198 excellent analysis and puts numbers to what I’ve been saying.

[@andrewmcgaha9629]

If you’re not into those weeds, you sure don’t want to get into rifles…

[@BryerCrandall]

Ranch fairy baby🤘🏼

[@ryandearing5456]

People would benefit a lot more by focusing on their arrows rather than buying a new bow every year. It's ridiculous that guys will spend $1200 on a new bow EVERY SINGLE YEAR but won't spend the time or money on better arrows and broadheads. This "good enough" attitude toward arrows is why the forums are full of guys losing animals every year due to poor penetration.

[@tompatterson5459]

Nice job putting him in the spot about not killing an elk personally.

[@UNLIMITEDOUTDOORS870]

Losing way more speed than the amount of energy you gain in my opinion meeting in the middle with 450-550 is best of both worlds